EP 63: Personal Application Strategies with The Epic Outdoors Crew. In this episode of The Epic Outdoors Podcast we talk about developing personal application strategies. We discuss what we look at when deciding on states and species to apply for each year. We also look at short term vs. long term strategies. One of the highlights of this podcast is the species by species breakdown on, “Must Apply for states.” Anyone interested in building points for big game will benefit from this episode.
Disclaimer: this podcast has been transcribed from the original audio and likely contains errors. This transcription does not reflect the views and opinions of Epic Outdoors LLC. Please consult the original audio with any concerns.
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If you don’t have the points, you can’t prep for the future.
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A lot of applications going out a lot to be decided. Keep
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Applying. You know, there’s no reason to hold out.
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And the odds for some units are pretty good. One in three, one in four.
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Anything to do with Western big Games.
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Welcome
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To the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour. Where are we at here? This is a From the Hip episode.
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Good grief.
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No script, no shoes, no shirt from the hip. Plenty of slurping.
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You’ve got that slurp down pretty good.
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Yeah, well, you know,
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I hear Adam’s practicing it once in a while too. Now the
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Only way I just get it, just do it. ’cause I know it makes Jason laugh.
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Oh, are we ready to start this wreck?
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Here we go.
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What the hell are we gonna talk about today?
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There’s the first edit of the day, Chris.
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Yeah, that’s true.
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I better write down, let’s write down one minute in. One minute
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In. Yeah, you, you’re gonna need get your notes full notepad there Chris. I probably,
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Probably should. I usually I
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Do. I just sometimes like last time we did pretty good. Do it on the pack of that.
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He is getting his pen and paper ready here. All right,
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Where is this gonna go?
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Hey everybody. How y’all doing out there? It’s Jason Carter, Adam Bronson and John Peterson as well as the infamous Jeff John and Chris Peterson. We’re all sitting here in the room just chilling out. It is, what is it, February 27th, one day before the Wyoming sheep, goat, moose, bison deadline as well as two days prior to the Utah deadline to apply for tags. But the bonus was point only deadlines March 15th. So that’s
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Right. We’d also like tomorrow to wish everybody happy birthday that has a birthday on Leap year, February 29th. ’cause tomorrow’s your only day to get some love. Happy birthday and four years. So anyway,
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Leap your, leap your babies
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Tomorrow.
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Can’t you divide their age by four and kinda get really out?
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Yeah, they shouldn’t be eligible to fly until they’re like, I don’t know. They shouldn’t get 50 or 60 years old.
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They shouldn’t get driver’s licenses until they’re 40 something. Anyway,
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I’m sure we’ll hear from some of you that are born on February 29th after we talked about this. But just thought we’d throw it out there random. That’s the random shout out of the day right there. There you go.
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I don’t know where that come from,
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Don. It came from that white. White can right there.
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Oh, alright. Well anyway, whose can Is that? That’s mine, man. All alright, well anyway, we just wanted do a podcast. I guess we’re just, we just barely finished up the Utah applications for our license application service. Anybody that doesn’t have time to do that, of course you can get ahold of us, we can do it. Get us your information, we’ll apply you and anyway, we’ll just kinda take it from there. A little license application plug. We also do applications all across the west for everybody and everything. And so anyway, get up, get with us and we’ll do that. So we’re kind of feeling a little happy ’cause our, most of our applications are done. Of course Jeff. He’s gonna have to spend hours and hours and hours checking the work that Adam and I and Ames did. So anyway, thank Pretty fun hun. You Jeff, aren’t you looking forward to
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That? Yeah, yeah, thanks.
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Three in the morning. Yep,
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There we
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Go. Crank and have all the monster crank it out monsters that you can possibly drink, buddy. And so anyway, usually doesn’t find any mistakes whatsoever, which we’re pretty proud of. But anyway, we do take a lot of pride in doing those applications. So anyway, we just wanted to kind of visit today a little bit. Well, first off, we gotta give a little shout out to Under Armour for sponsoring this podcast. Of course they sponsor about everything we do. Thank you to Under Armour. What does this Chris officially powered by Under Armour.
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That’s right, that’s, that’s exactly what you’re supposed to
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Say. Who can do that? Do that. Do who can do it? Like Chris? Well Chris, that’d be Chris. Yeah. Chris, go ahead. Give us, give, give, give it to us. Chris,
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Welcome to the Epic Outdoors Podcast. Powered by Under Armour.
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Okay. Can anybody do it better than that?
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No, that’s,
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Come on. Try
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And not happening.
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Powered by Under Armour.
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That’s
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That’s way better than Chris. Way better bro. You got a deep voice. Oh, Chris is good. Gurgle it out.
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Chris is
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Good. All right. So anyway, thanks Under Armour for sponsoring the podcast. We just kinda wanted to talk today about application strategies. Nothing too deep, just kind of the basics on some of these states and some of our thought process. Course we’ve putting it in print, but you can only put so much in print. It doesn’t always come across exactly the way we want it to. And so anyway, I don’t know, somebody wanted to throw something out there. Let’s start this thing off. What are we gonna talk about Bronson?
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Well it is right in the middle of, it’s probably the busiest 30 to 45 days of the year are from now till mid-April, I would say, in terms of applications and stuff coming at you left and right, states coming due. We do have, have had one state Wyoming elk results come out, but for the most part, a lot of lines going out in the water right now and a lot of stuff to juggle. A lot of moon phases being looked at. A lot of schedules being looked at. I saw you looking
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At that moon phase
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Calendar this morning with a guy. Remember? What was that look? That was a, you act as if that was a bad day.
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Well I was like fish. No, I was thinking you were saying lots of lines in the water and I’m like, fishermen, we’re not talking fishing today, but,
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Alright, anyway, metaphorically speaking, we’re putting Okay. A lot of names in the hat. How’s that? That make you feel better? Yeah, a
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Lot better. I mean, who likes fish?
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We’re not John. I love fishing when it’s hot. Alright, alright. We’re putting a lot of lines. There you go again. There you go. We’ve said that over and over and I don’t know, I caught Jason off guard today, but that’s, anyway, so a lot of applications going out. A lot to be decided and you know, a lot of times for all of us and it it, you don’t know your firm schedule come this fall, there’s a few hunts that we, we probably know we’re going off on. I guess we’ll just start off at that. That’s usually how I start off is I look at, alright, what do I know I can get this year if I want it in any of the states? And that usually has to do with the states that give a portion of, or in the case of like Colorado deer and elk, all their tags to the people at the most points. And I say, what do I want? Is this a year that is gonna be great for Arizona Elk Last year that was for me and I picked last year and, and I went after it and built my whole application strategy around an Arizona elk tech. But going forth this year, how about it? Who’s got something they’re gonna draw, who’s pretty confident and who’s working around a guaranteed draw? ’cause that’s for me. I’m not,
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That’s for me and my house. Go ahead Jeff. Start us off. What are you gonna do?
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No, I’m gonna draw a bear tag. Jeff’s
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Going bear. I don’t know if I’m
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Turning it back.
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That’s
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Only, that’s the only thing I know
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At this point. So yesterday Jeff, Jeff, you know, and I, and understandably so slightly reluctant to tell Adam draw plans.
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Well
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We proceed to crush the poor feller. Okay.
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And he didn’t move to southern Utah. Year and a half, two year, whatever it’s been ago. Yeah. So the southern part of the state is, even though he is hunted down here, it’s not, he’s not as hunted. He’s
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Hunt in Pine Valley. I have
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Beaver,
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I’ve hunted the general down here quite a bit. But I, you know, there’s not a lot of great bear units right here in northern Utah.
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And right here I’ve got
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13 bear points and I’m like, huh, maybe I’ll burn ’em. ’cause I don’t know what else I’m doing with them. And you were
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Making many trips with your kids up to Brian Head to see deer and he is like, well hell, if I’m seeing deer’s probably bears up here. I’m use my 13 points on anguish. Bear Adam and I look at
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Each other. Honestly, dude, well I’m sitting there if I’m gonna hunt for deer, you know, it’d be good to learn the unit because I want to turn around and in the future, possibly draw a couple other tags there. Yeah, yeah. Or something else. Know they collar
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A bear up there. And so, you know, there’s be,
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And we’ve talked about it and we’ve kind of got some, there’s at least some connections where they know some bear running around and whatnot. And some private property. One
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Resembles a bear,
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One bear, it could have been a, like a Sasquatch site. It could have been a brown something, a burn. I mean it could have been anything. There’s not very many bears up there. So
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Because you can amend your application here in Utah, you pull it up till
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11 o’clock last night.
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Well, yeah. Okay. So originally what
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Did you end
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Up with Originally I just bought another bonus point and then I got to yesterday and I’m like, ah, you know what the heck with it, I’m gonna, I’m gonna go ahead and apply. So then I applied and then I withdrew my application again and then I
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Reapplied,
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Reapplied. So then
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I withdrew that application.
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So 10, let’s see, $30 later. It’s 10 times each, right, three. Lets back. I
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There’s a lunch. A, a lunch. A lunch.
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Well I must not have heard your final
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Plan.
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What was,
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What would you come up with?
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I’m going to Beaver. Oh, okay. I’m gonna draw the beaver
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Tag. So anybody that applied with less than 13 and wants a max point tag, probably outta luck. You
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Probably know. All I know is up at Kents Lake, they have dumpster diver bears up there.
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Well, and and Chris told me the story about
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Dumpster. Throw some trail cameras on all the dumpsters. There you go.
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Yeah, I was sitting up there about two years ago and we were sitting around the campfire and this, all of a sudden we heard some racket about 20 feet away and turn around. I stand up and there’s a big black bear just sitting there and he didn’t care. We were there making noise.
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No way. Dumpster diving.
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Once Chris told me the trash.
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So if you, if you hunt off, is that bait, is that a bait stand? Do we,
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I mean, do you have to to
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Register
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Dumpster? I only get two. So let’s see. No, I would say that’s incidental. That’s, that’s like a trail, like a, that’s a camera in
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A trail. It’s just like finding a hunter harvested elk carcass that’s not yours. And you got a bear on it. Whack it. What
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Doing sir? There you go. I’m sitting here waiting for a bear to come outta this dumpster.
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That’s
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All. What else? So anyway, Jeff’s got something to work around. It sounds like he’s gonna go bear hunting this spring and the rest of us are gonna have to get a little bit lucky. Lucky. But what about, what about the fall? Who’s got firm plans and whether you got something scheduled, whether you got kids hunts, your hunts, who’s, who’s got a guaranteed draw?
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Let’s talk. Well, I’m gonna do, I’m gonna do dedicated hunter here in southern Utah. General I’ve heard is better than it’s ever been. And so anyway, I’m gonna do dedicated hunter, which I should, I should draw it. And anyway, so I’m planning kind of around that and you know, it’s not very often we have killed a few big deer on the general, but not very often a guy makes plans around the general, but it is gonna happen this year. So anyway that’s, I’m just gonna throw that out there. Anybody else that you, how
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About this?
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That’s
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10 points for elk in Colorado. Should I burn ’em?
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What do you, what do you look considering John,
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I
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What are your options?
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I would say yes, other than that doesn’t get you a whole,
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Doesn’t gimme a lot.
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But yeah, you should try. Yeah, I mean try
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That. There’s a number. It’s 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7. Talked to Adam or Jason. They definitely get you lined down on something. Good. John, you printed that Colorado magazine. What you see in there buddy?
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I saw a few that I might try for.
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You’re legit serious. It’s, yeah, you gonna do it? Oh yeah, yeah,
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Possibly. It’s just whether to, you know, keep building for a couple years or try to burn those on. Yeah,
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You’re kind of in no man’s line. I’d get what
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You’re on a lesser tag. You know I’d
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Get what you can with 10 or 11 or 12 right there and don’t no sense to build more than
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That. Three or four somewhere. One of our little key units gonna have them favorites. So anyway. Well good. Right on.
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That’s generally where we got all start is what we think we’re gonna get. But obviously not every year you got points guaranteed to draw something. So if you don’t, it’s getting lucky. We should know start to get some results back in Arizona as late as the end of the week. The deadline to update your credit card online is March 1st. I think midnight, I don’t know, probably midnight,
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Probably plus or minus. Usually
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It, which the last two years in a row I’ve drawn an antelope and an elk tag. And the very next day after that published date, they started crushing cards. So be ready on Friday the second, pretty much Saturday the third be watch, watch out for activity from Arizona. Game Fish on your card for an antelope and elk charge. If you have had a problem, just a tip with your credit card that you applied with back in January, early February, go online and and update your payment information right now. You can do that up until March 1st. But if your card’s gone bad from the time you applied to now and you draw, you’ll never know it because they’ll skip you and go to the next person. So make sure your card’s
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Good. Anybody who’s sharing their card with their wife, make sure that card’s good and got some room on it.
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650 for elk and I think five 50 for antelope. Make sure you got that. Yeah, that’s right. That room on there, it’s,
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Hey, it’s a legitimate thing to worry about for some guys and so anyway, but yeah, so it should be, should be a good year. Of course we’ve got a little weather here, you know, down here in southern Utah, Arizona, New Mexico. The last week or so in Bronson, you were telling me this morning you were looking at the weather, it looks like things are looking up maybe for the rest of the
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Week. Well it’s been really dry winter for sure and but for the last two weeks we’ve at least have a different weather pattern flow and we’ve got some snow down in southern Utah. It’s not much to save any drought, but we might green some feet up here in a few weeks if it turns warm and grow something. But remains to be seen, you know, you’re hoping you’re grasping at every bright spot we can have. And it’s definitely better than the 65 degree golfing, whether we had all of December and January. Oh boy, that was nice. ’cause that’s pretty much what we had down here. Yeah,
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Well anyway. And so we did get the Wyoming elk results out there. Anybody that drew a tag, give us a holler. We can help you find people that have hunted it in the past or give you an outfitter. My son Colton, he, we forced to draw. He is 17, he’ll turn 18 here in December. And so this is the last fall. He’s gonna be around the house.
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Cheap tag, cheap feed before he went to 700 bucks too. Probably 2 99, right? It was a youth, youth only or did you? He was
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Actually special. Oh. Oh
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The big daddy.
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So it was 1300 bucks for
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Him. Sorry, bumped an extra grand just to get it done. What? A dad? No, what
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A dad. He’s gonna work it off one way or another.
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Oh, okay. Nevermind. Nevermind. I assume too much. He’s
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Gonna be in the desert covered in ticks and
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No mess. Check cameras for you. Yep. Oh yeah. To work it off. Yeah. No, no. He’s got a summer job and everything, but no, he is. Yeah. So anyway, we’ll be heading up to the bighorns up there in Wyoming. Looking forward to it. Kind of forced that draw. But luckily this year everything kind of jumped a point or two and so it turned out he had Wyoming just the right number of points and we had the right strategy. It was unbelievable how many people tried to draw this year. It’s like
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Everybodys trying to draw. Yeah, it was like that, that price increase. More people had said, I’m willing to pay it and be either done with it or, or whatever their mentality was. It did not deter people on the special draw. In very few instances did we see that happen.
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Right. And so anyway, we’re kind of, kind of looking forward to that. And of course now a lot of you guys have kids out there, it’s a little bit of a sense of urgency. You know, we’re, yeah, he, he’s gonna try to get him, you know, deer tags about everywhere we can and, and of course Colorado’s one of those states we definitely are be looking at, you know, guys can draw second choice and still gain points in Colorado for deer. And there’s plenty of good second choice options. Guys are killing 200 inch deer. Well almost with an S, you know, at least one or two 200 inches are taken on
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Choice. Say, Jason, get ready for those calls because I’ll let you handle ’em all. Hey there, it’s 200 inches on second choice tags.
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It happens. It happens. But anyway,
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So when we talk about draw strategy, Jason, I’m gonna ignore you for a minute. Don’t, don’t get your fillings hurt because I know Mule deer drive your biggest application strategy plans, you know, for you personally. Plants out there, I mean you got elk, you got, you got a soft spot for you for a moose here and there. Yeah.
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Antelope, antelope. You guys didn’t know I got a little antelope fetish. Okay.
00:16:04:17 –> 00:16:26:01
Two point fetish. Geez. But Jeff, what, what species, ’cause maybe people don’t hear this from you as much. What, when you develop your personal straw strategy, what gets you fired up? And John, we’re coming to you next. We’re gonna be, once you know what, what species, what do you, or maybe it’s multifaceted, but what do you really hope every year dear?
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It’s dear. I mean, but that’s, that’s because I get, there’s so many guaranteed hunts that I know I’m gonna do, but they’re You mean
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They all involved here mean? You mean like General Deer and Utah and
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All that? Well, yeah, Idaho, Utah, Colorado. I just try to have a tag in those every year and I’ve gotten a little lucky in Nevada and then last year maybe not so lucky in Nevada, but, but anyway.
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You learned how to change tires? Yeah,
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I did three of them in fact. But, but yeah, mostly deer. I mean that’s the thing is I, that’s my, my fallback. I know I’m gonna be hunting deer in several states every year, you know, so that, that’s pretty my,
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Between you and your boys, you got boys that are 11 to 13, don’t you? Yep. Two of them. So they’ve been a part of your strategy and but deer, one of ’em drew an elk tag in Idaho last year. Yeah. Youth tag. So those kind of come outta nowhere. But you like to drive with your whole year with, I need two to three deer tags somewhere. Yep,
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That’s
00:17:23:07 –> 00:17:38:01
Exactly, and they’re not normally, you know, they’re Utah, general Idaho general or easy tag tags or you know, every other year draw tags in Colorado, so Yep, yep. You have killed the Rocky Mountain Big Horn. We know Utah. That was 10 or 12 or 12 years ago now. 14 years ago, 12 years
00:17:38:01 –> 00:17:39:23
Ago. Yeah, 13 actually. Boat
00:17:39:23 –> 00:17:49:01
Cliff south. I’ve got 12 desert points. So now you’re hoping for a desert sometime that’ll happen. Yeah. But you are, you don’t, you have plans to go north this year too?
00:17:49:09 –> 00:17:58:08
Oh yeah, we’re going up chasing caribou. Just d i y foolishness. Just, just going up having fun. Who,
00:17:58:11 –> 00:17:58:28
Who are you taking?
00:17:59:07 –> 00:18:10:07
Me and my brother and my dad. We’re just gonna, that sounds awesome. Go for a ride and go, go check it out. Check out some areas, just learn a little bit more about a bunch of different places up there and just, just, you know,
00:18:10:21 –> 00:18:15:17
You’re going in September when you said going for a ride. I wanna clarify, you’re flying up there, aren’t you?
00:18:15:25 –> 00:18:21:16
Well we’ve been debating, we were thinking about thinking about sending a truck and a trailer up because four wheelers, ATVs,
00:18:22:03 –> 00:18:23:02
Oh my god. Or
00:18:23:02 –> 00:18:23:17
Off landing.
00:18:24:08 –> 00:18:25:11
Jeff never takes these,
00:18:26:08 –> 00:18:28:12
I never, I don’t take the easy away. The
00:18:28:13 –> 00:18:31:28
Path has been paved but, but there have been thousands of hunters do this.
00:18:32:02 –> 00:18:35:05
Oh yes, there. How they do? They drop you off, you
00:18:35:07 –> 00:18:36:02
Fly in, they drop you’ve
00:18:36:05 –> 00:18:42:22
Road. I’ve driven it all the way from Fairbanks all the way up to PTO Bay. Yeah. Happy Valley. Yeah. Dead horse
00:18:42:28 –> 00:18:45:23
All the way through the Brooks Range and all on the backside. Yeah. Then
00:18:45:23 –> 00:18:46:25
Saw cruises here and there. Yep.
00:18:46:25 –> 00:18:47:04
Yeah.
00:18:47:08 –> 00:18:48:26
So you may, you guys may
00:18:49:13 –> 00:18:50:13
Well and we also road
00:18:50:18 –> 00:18:51:07
Tripping it. Yeah.
00:18:51:16 –> 00:18:58:20
Yep. Well not all of us, you know, the nice thing is, is with three of us going, you know, we’ll probably you’re not gonna do shift work.
00:18:58:23 –> 00:19:04:02
You’re not, you’re gonna gonna send dad with a truck and you and Dusty are gonna fly to Fairbanks and you’re not gonna do that are you? I
00:19:04:02 –> 00:19:04:14
Thought about it.
00:19:05:11 –> 00:19:07:04
Oh, I see where this is going.
00:19:07:06 –> 00:19:13:28
Well we’ll know that and that, you know, there’s, we haven’t nailed down the idea completely all, but we got a couple things going.
00:19:13:28 –> 00:19:20:19
Bottom line, you’re working around September, two weeks or something. Basically if you’re driving, we’re going another week. So we’ll have another week if you’re
00:19:20:19 –> 00:19:34:24
Driving, we gotta be up there on the 29th of, of August. Yes. I got a call and just double check. They’re changing a couple of the regulations and might be changing a couple regulations up there like on the 40 mile herd and a couple things. So, so anyway, we gotta go,
00:19:34:29 –> 00:19:52:17
Think you’re in limbo but you’re heading north so that’s a big, there’s a two to three week, you know, with actual days gone and we all deal with this, the brownie points away from home. Like you can’t just, you know, go there for three weeks and come right back and jump into something for two weeks else. So it’s a big, so archery big year all year
00:19:52:20 –> 00:19:56:11
Archery, deer and elk are pretty much out this year and that’s, it’s, that one’s gone. One
00:19:56:11 –> 00:20:00:19
Thing I wanna talk about a little bit on this, well let’s see, we gotta go to John. I
00:20:00:19 –> 00:20:03:24
Forgot. So my strategy basically is put in for
00:20:04:11 –> 00:20:04:22
Sheep,
00:20:04:27 –> 00:20:27:04
Elk, deer. So sheep, it’s gonna be, you know, long term, you know I’m sitting at between seven and 16 points in Utah and sheep. So still, still got quite a few years on that. Hopefully draw, you know, a sheep every 20 years, draw elk every seven to eight years and then fill it in with deer in the middle. Deer and antelope. You’ve
00:20:27:04 –> 00:20:32:25
Got one year your boys as hunting ages is your youngest, is he gonna hunt this year? I can’t remember. Yeah, he’s gonna be
00:20:33:06 –> 00:20:33:25
Year. Introduce your first
00:20:33:25 –> 00:20:42:10
Year. So he might not draw. Yeah. Even a general, but you got, you’re gonna have two boys potentially this year I got daughter as well. Daughter in middle in the mix. Yeah.
00:20:42:10 –> 00:20:45:04
And she should draw this year dear. ’cause last
00:20:45:04 –> 00:20:46:04
Year, so you might have all three.
00:20:46:14 –> 00:20:46:23
Yeah.
00:20:47:01 –> 00:20:48:05
For your youngest three.
00:20:48:05 –> 00:20:55:28
We’ll see on that. So that’s, that keeps me pretty busy, you know, on for deer hunting and stuff here in Utah. But hopefully be going to Colorado again,
00:20:56:20 –> 00:20:58:28
You yourself maybe a deer, elk or something like that.
00:20:58:29 –> 00:21:04:26
And in Utah, I’m a dedicated hunter in Utah. So got all three seasons on deer and
00:21:05:24 –> 00:21:06:13
Yeah. Yep.
00:21:06:19 –> 00:21:35:29
One thing I want to talk about a little bit, Adam, is we and John and Jeff and Chris, you know, as we go throughout the, through the years and we figure out our draw strategies, obviously Adam alluded to, we figure out what we can get points wise and so, and how do we know, how do we know we can get those points wise? Well in a lot of these states they allocate a certain percentage to people with the most points that apply. Yeah. And so like Colorado, it’s preference guys have preference over another. Yeah. And so yeah, for, for deer elk for example. Or antelope an
00:21:36:17 –> 00:21:47:23
Yeah. By the way Jason, you’ve got a pile of antelope points. You gonna put ’em on the line this year? You said you had a FET form. Think let’s do it. Think, let’s see if you put your money where your mouth is, oh geez. Let’s burn ’em. So
00:21:48:21 –> 00:21:53:13
Lets, it’s funny, lets is under my C I D number, but I get it by the end of
00:21:53:13 –> 00:21:54:25
The podcast we’re gonna get Jason to
00:21:54:25 –> 00:22:04:28
Burn those points. So what’s nice, what is nice is you can make a plan. People can make plans, you have zero points, you can make a plan. I can’t get Jack. Yeah. Unless I get a point Right. Type type of plan. And so
00:22:05:05 –> 00:22:06:20
The other states though, yeah, you’ve mentioned
00:22:07:05 –> 00:22:21:19
Colorado. Yeah, like Arizona, you know, you know they give a percentage to people at the max point, the people that apply with the most points. And so I can tell, I can draw an archery deer tag on the CHIVE app. Yeah. And so you can kind of say, okay, now do I wanna do that? And by the way, what are
00:22:22:03 –> 00:22:22:23
Dates, what’s been
00:22:22:23 –> 00:22:25:04
Taken? Yeah. And does that interfere with my Utah general
00:22:25:04 –> 00:22:27:26
Dates? How dry is Arizona band? Do I want it? That’s right.
00:22:27:29 –> 00:22:43:22
All those types of, and do I wanna point guard it and if I point guard it, I can turn it back, get all my points back plus one as if I didn’t apply now then that point guard’s taken away from me until I draw that tag and actually utilize it. And so there’s things like that that go, that are way heavily on our, it’s not a haphazard
00:22:44:00 –> 00:22:47:23
Utah and Wyoming, you alluded to it with your son Colton, a minute ago. You knew,
00:22:48:02 –> 00:22:48:11
I knew
00:22:48:13 –> 00:22:54:26
He was close, drawn regular. But you wanna make certain he goes on and out outcome this year six stepped up and he did the special just to make sure. Well
00:22:54:26 –> 00:23:08:17
He had six points. Yeah, we applied for the big horns. I knew, but I’m like, you know, he actually had two more points than it took the prior year. But keep in mind, the prior year he had one less. Yeah. He really had five. It took four. Yeah. And so then I’m like, hey, if I do special
00:23:09:04 –> 00:23:09:20
Should make
00:23:09:20 –> 00:23:26:25
Sure it’s so expensive. Most guys, I, I think I’ll get a shoe in and I wanted a shoe in. Yeah. I wanted to make sure he drew. And that’s what you and I do heavily is we look at it, we’ll pay a little bit more money, know we can plan the year we’re gonna go. And so the, the draw processes are different for every state. And that’s what’s awesome about
00:23:26:25 –> 00:23:37:11
It. Those four, those four used to Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, Arizona, all have a portion of the maximum point in play. You know, the rest of the states, you know the Montana Yeah.
00:23:37:15 –> 00:23:38:20
It’s gonna be a crap shoot. Right,
00:23:38:27 –> 00:23:43:04
Nevada. That’s right. Squaring your points in both those two, New Mexico and Idaho, truly random
00:23:43:09 –> 00:23:58:16
And Montana general deer elk are something, something you could plan on. But there’s certain things that we do look at, you know, with Utah’s general deer, it’s a preference point, not a bonus. Right. And the bonus is for all the limited draws. And so we can tell, and you can tell everybody that’s listening, you can tell
00:23:58:29 –> 00:24:16:10
Magazine’s Got it in there you can look at how many points you have and if you’re on the bubble, you gotta kind of plan on drawing that tag because if you’ve waited 10, 20 years, it warrants all your attention if you get drawn. So it’s not, you know, sometimes tags come outta nowhere and you just gotta react and make it work. That’s
00:24:16:10 –> 00:24:25:07
Right. And so and so. Yeah. And so we could tell Adam, you knew you were gonna draw that Arizona elk tag. Yeah, I would say 70% certainly. Yeah. I would’ve been shocked. You’re right on the edge. Shocked. Yeah,
00:24:25:14 –> 00:24:38:16
I did, I did put a unit as my first choice. I didn’t think I would probably get but unit 27 is a second knowing I’d probably get Yeah. And, and that’s the one I ended up getting. But I knew the dates kick late. It was, I just made time in my schedule and, and
00:24:38:17 –> 00:24:43:06
That’s what I got. And in 2013 I did the same thing. I I forced a unit, one archery, one
00:24:43:06 –> 00:24:43:17
Archery,
00:24:43:20 –> 00:24:51:05
Same thing. Draw and so same kind of plan. And so do you get lucky? Well you got lucky on your Arizona animal. Yeah. You did get lucky. And so you
00:24:51:05 –> 00:24:52:20
Just react on some of those. They
00:24:52:20 –> 00:25:24:23
Do give, you know, it happens half the tags go to people randomly. And so you can draw these random tags. Of course we’re sitting on max with sheep in Montana. Never can, never will be able to know plan or plan Nevada. We, what’s some of the most, most questions we get about that is how long’s it gonna take me to get my archery elk tag up in Nevada? How long am how long till I get an archery deer tag, archery deer tag. Yeah. I promise you, if you’re willing to use all five choices, not going just the top five, you know, five to 10 years. But who knows, it could be 15, it could be one. Yeah. You don’t know.
00:25:24:27 –> 00:25:52:07
Squares your points, you know, five times 5 25 names in the hat plus one for the application. And there you go. And that’s not a way to predict that. That’s, you’re gonna draw when you draw. And it’s, it’s hard to predict. We, you know, we talked to a lot of guys with 15 to 20 points on deer. That’s right. That think they should be getting close. And you gotta, with 26, you’re, your, your name’s in there a lot. But there’s still no predictability guy with two points with five names in that. So
00:25:52:08 –> 00:26:13:14
What’s, what some guys wanna do is to make sure you, you’ve got a tag and you go hunting. Let’s just up upfront tell you there are over-the-counter deer tags for Arizona, for COOs, deer and mul deer. Both you hunt some of the best COOs deer units archery in the rutt with a bow for, for guys that wanna do that can’t kill two deer in one year. So if you know you’re gonna draw ca bab archery tag for example, don’t be shooting
00:26:13:24 –> 00:26:16:20
KU here in January May down in January, January, that’s, you’re done for the, if you kill one.
00:26:17:01 –> 00:26:37:10
So just make sure either it’s big or you don’t kill it. And so anyway, same thing Idaho. Idaho has over the counter tags, both elk and deer and for general. And so there’s some opportunity there where, you know, you can have a tag. You can have a tag. I know I’m gonna have a tag. I’m gonna go, maybe it’s second choice Colorado or third court choice in Colorado.
00:26:37:22 –> 00:26:39:04
Colorado Elk maybe. Yeah, that’s back
00:26:39:07 –> 00:27:15:26
Colorado Elk even over the counter. Or a second, third choice draw for Mulder. ’cause there’s no, over-the-counter Mulder, there are things you can do. So you get a basic plan. I’ve got a tag. Now what? Now if you’re satisfied with that worst case scenario, you end up with the general tag, then let’s go for the gold on some of these other states and let’s just not plan on drawing. Let’s really work on getting a trophy tag quote trophy tag. And so anyway, that’s how I, I think what we’re doing, we talk about just throwing around this and that and the other. It is very calculated. It’s something we think about every day. Oh yeah. I mean it’s consuming. Yeah, it is. And so, you know,
00:27:15:26 –> 00:27:25:17
You’ve got, you’ve got a lot of years invested, but at the same time there’s things like, like for me, desert Sheep, Jason you drew about 10 years ago, you cashed in your high
00:27:25:19 –> 00:27:26:28
And you went with me. We went out
00:27:26:28 –> 00:27:34:12
To high. We all were there except for Jeff. Jeff. Jeff was smart enough to not know us that well. That and he knew Jason but not us spared his wife.
00:27:34:14 –> 00:27:37:16
He he wasn’t invited on that trip. I wasn’t, no, I’m just tea.
00:27:38:06 –> 00:28:30:00
Absolutely. Which was good. But we, you know, I’m kind of in that same position now. I know I’m very, very close. Basically can’t, can’t predict the crossover between these top few units in Utah for desert sheep every year. Perfectly. And my time’s short. Your time’s coming. I have to plan on getting it every year and I have the last few and it just hasn’t worked. Yeah. As, as I’ve moved a little bit on my applications too and certain years. If I know a few years ago and I knew I was gonna go hunt stone sheep, I, I, I applied for Zion ’cause I didn’t really wanna draw Utah Desert that year. Yeah. If it was make it be the best. But, but yeah, there’s certain things like that we have to plan around in case we get ’em because they are such a big deal that that, you know, you’re Arizona deer that year when you knew you were gonna draw that and you were gonna make the switch from the strip to 12 B, you knew didn’t anything
00:28:30:00 –> 00:28:31:01
Else I knew I was gonna get. You didn’t
00:28:31:01 –> 00:28:36:28
Want anything else to overlap. That was, yeah, this is my once in a lifetime late season rat hunt in Arizona.
00:28:37:05 –> 00:28:42:10
We went and smashed a, you know, a small bull moose up there in Idaho.
00:28:42:14 –> 00:28:47:17
Oh. And we were drove 2000, however many miles that is to get a lot Miles it feels like 5,000. Yeah. But
00:28:47:20 –> 00:28:53:24
Just to get back, went up there, killed the moose and couldn’t get down to the, down to Arizona fast enough. Yeah. But
00:28:54:01 –> 00:29:14:08
So there’s a few of those that it’s not, so those of you that see us draw on some of these tags, it, there’s some of them we’ve, we’ve earned the hard way. We’re almost the last one standing. There’s, there’s no way other put it that didn’t draw randomly. I’m the most, I’m one of the most unlucky guys on Utah Desert sheep. Yeah. Granted I’m holding out for what I want, but that’s another way to look at it. You’re
00:29:14:08 –> 00:29:15:11
Not gonna go do Escali this year.
00:29:15:28 –> 00:29:16:04
Probably not.
00:29:17:10 –> 00:29:17:17
But
00:29:17:17 –> 00:29:19:29
You could. Although it’s coming back. Oh, I could’ve drawn that five years
00:29:19:29 –> 00:29:22:24
Ago. That’s my point. And then units come and go. Yeah. Sheep
00:29:23:08 –> 00:29:23:20
Gotten
00:29:23:20 –> 00:29:34:19
Better and Utah sheep have gotten infinitely better than when I drew. Oh yeah. And so when I drew, we were just gonna kill a nice representative and enjoy the whole experience. Yeah. That’s what was there. You know, now you might kill a Buckhead,
00:29:34:22 –> 00:29:55:12
You might. So yeah, I’m kind of more, I’m seeing that for more what it is like okay, I don’t have to draw this year my, my boy’s gotten older, he’s able to probably go with me on my hunt. That’s factoring into, so yeah. But, but that’s still in the background of my mind every year now it’s like I gotta plan on drawing that, you know, that with the hunters I’m taking and what other hunts I’m going on. But That’s right. Yeah.
00:29:55:12 –> 00:29:57:18
But, and you’ve got a, a sheep pump booked for this year.
00:29:58:03 –> 00:30:07:11
Yeah, I did have it for 2019 and another doll sheep just wanted to go back. It’s been 10 years since I shot my first one. So I thought well
00:30:07:20 –> 00:30:08:25
Has it been that long? Geez.
00:30:09:06 –> 00:30:14:25
Yeah. 2000. Wow. 2008 or oh nine, I forget one of the two. And so yeah, I put you in
00:30:14:25 –> 00:30:15:06
Your mid forties,
00:30:16:22 –> 00:30:25:01
Low forties. So you’re not in your mid forties till you’re 45 to 47 as far as I’m concerned.
00:30:25:05 –> 00:30:26:00
I still got some years.
00:30:27:08 –> 00:31:05:12
You’ve got me by one year anyw who? Yeah. So I did end up going to the sheep show and outta the blue, the outfitter I’m going with, you know, there’s another individual that’s scheduled to go with the same dates opening in 2018 and couldn’t go. And so ended up switching. So yeah, I’m going August this year, which doesn’t really affect my application plans a whole lot except for archery deer. I do like to archery deer hunt. I probably won’t apply for Nevada archery deer this year because August 10th is the same day as opening day for sheep in Alaska. So I can’t, I can’t be in two place at once and I don’t wanna burn points in a year in Nevada and come back and only hunt the last two weeks. So
00:31:05:18 –> 00:31:17:07
Yeah. And the nice thing that does play into our schedule as well and a strategy is you can turn those tags back. Let’s say you did draw a tag in Nevada, you don’t want it, you can turn it back, get all, yeah. Let’s your points back plus ones. Same with you Tucks. Let’s
00:31:17:07 –> 00:31:17:19
Talk about those.
00:31:17:19 –> 00:31:26:11
Yeah. And I, and I think it’s important, we have a lot of guys we deal with on a daily basis to that says, I don’t wanna draw two tags in one year, apply me points only, you
00:31:26:11 –> 00:31:31:13
Know, it’s so rare. Do we hear of guys Yeah. That draw three and four can’t do ’em justice. Let’s,
00:31:31:13 –> 00:31:46:23
And let’s say you do, if one of them is Arizona, if one of them and you point guard it, if one of them is Utah, if one of them is Nevada, Colorado, even Colorado, you can turn back and get the points back you had as you went into the draw. Yeah. You’re not gonna gain one for this year, but the others you will. Yep. Utah, you need even get your money back.
00:31:46:23 –> 00:31:54:05
Yeah. Utah, if you do it 30 days before your hunt that you get their permit feedback and your point and that you would’ve got that year. So you’re out nothing.
00:31:54:13 –> 00:32:04:08
And it’s the same cost. You don’t have to front the fees, it’s the same cost. Either do points only or apply for a tag. Always apply for a tag. I’m just gonna say unless you’re
00:32:04:12 –> 00:32:04:26
Schedule always
00:32:04:26 –> 00:32:05:04
Apply
00:32:05:09 –> 00:32:12:26
For a, unless your schedule totally is like, I’ve got three hunts booked and I’m going for three weeks here, you know, September
00:32:12:28 –> 00:32:17:08
I can’t go. And then all of a sudden, well if I gave you a desert sheep tag, would you figure out how to go? Yes. Okay
00:32:17:09 –> 00:32:24:24
Then don’t do points only you should’ve applied. Sheep should never do points only, I don’t, I don’t care what, there’s a very couple very small window season dates. Like That’s right.
00:32:25:08 –> 00:32:25:17
Like
00:32:25:17 –> 00:32:39:29
Wheeler Peak, I think’s about 10 days in New Mexico. That’s about the short and maybe even Pecos and some of those, those are really short and I could see if you had something booked over the top of those. But most sheet punts are three to three weeks to two, two and a half months in the last month
00:32:39:29 –> 00:32:40:08
Is average.
00:32:40:08 –> 00:32:49:02
Yeah. So I don’t know. I can’t think of a reason why I would ever do points only for sheep in in my life. I’d never, I never would have and I never will in any state.
00:32:49:04 –> 00:32:57:08
That’s right. So yeah, think a big part of of your strategy is we all wanna hunt. Of course we keep talking about the five, 10 year, 20 year plan in other podcasts, but
00:32:57:29 –> 00:32:59:26
Gotta go hunting in the meantime somehow. Yeah. You
00:32:59:26 –> 00:33:18:06
Gotta go hunt, you know, you gotta put some tags in your pocket so you know, it’s a matter of saying, okay, this is what I’ve got. You know, and I’ve got a, a brown bear hunt I booked with Yeah. Litson who you know for this year. Yeah, that’s right. Litson the guy that we’re actually giving away hunt away. I booked a brown bear hunt with him and we’re giving away a hunt combo. It’s
00:33:18:06 –> 00:33:23:29
A combo hunt. I’ve never heard of one that’s, I mean just this awesome. It just has so many things you can do. Tell
00:33:23:29 –> 00:33:24:12
Us about it.
00:33:24:22 –> 00:33:29:20
Whatever you need, you can basically get it on this combo hunt. Yeah, we
00:33:29:20 –> 00:33:38:06
Thought that would be unique. We, we gave a doll sheet punt away on in our first, I guess call membership drive and then beginning March 1st through
00:33:38:11 –> 00:33:41:16
June 1st, right. June 1st. It’s March 1st to June 1st March 1st
00:33:41:16 –> 00:34:19:25
To June 1st. If you, the only way to enter, you can’t buy tickets is to refer a guy, refer a guy that joins their service or join yourself if you’re new. If you’re a new member, this is not the first drive was for anybody who renewed. This one is for new members. So you only way to enter the slate is wiped clean on March 1st. The only way to be in this drawing for the doll sheep, grizzly bear, black bear wolf caribou combo hunt that we’re giving away, fully paid for by us for the, for the end of August, 2019 is to join or refer someone that joins between March 1st and June 1st, 2018. And
00:34:19:25 –> 00:34:20:16
We paid if a gift
00:34:20:23 –> 00:34:21:29
Subscription who would also qualify.
00:34:22:05 –> 00:35:04:02
Yeah. Gift subscription, sub description for your buddy. And anyway, the refer E and the referer will both get a ticket into the draw. So that’s the only way That’s it. That’s the only way the odds are gonna be awesome. It is with an awesome guy and we’ve, we’ve paid for three species. So here at Epic Outdoors we have paid, we’ve already got a deposit on file and it should be awesome. So anyway, did book a hunt with him for Brown Bear and so I know I’ve got that. I know I’ve got Colton’s elk and then of course I’ve got some deer things coming up. Obviously I’ve talked about the dedicated hunter in Utah. For those that don’t know, we’ve kind of talked about it before, but dedicated hunter does allow you to hunt all the seasons, even the extra rifle season in some of these general units that they gave out new for this year.
00:35:04:08 –> 00:35:51:22
Let you hunt all seasons. You’ll kill, you can kill two deer in three years. You do have to, you know, do 32 service hours or purchase those hours. I think it’s 20 bucks an hour and then an entry fee fee as well and take a little online course and, and you’re in. So what a great opportunity, especially where our general units are back, back meaning fairly good quality right now. So anyway, that’s kind of, that kind of plays into this as we go through each of the states. We were talking about turning pat tags back, making sure you’re in the draw for these, you know, as Adam and I have even got older, older, we start to play these raffles even just saying, you know what, we absolutely need your name everywhere they can be. And we’re, we know some of these people that are drawing tags. Yeah. I mean it happens. Oh yeah. And, and we’ve beat a lot of long odds too. Yep,
00:35:51:22 –> 00:36:05:20
That’s right. You know, it’s, you know everybody throughout whatever phase of life you are when you’re, I mean we were back in the college days when we were starting this points game, we were using 0% cards, cash advanced checks on the cards for the states that we had to write checks for
00:36:05:20 –> 00:36:08:29
Arizona. They would allow a personal check. So I wrote a credit card check.
00:36:08:29 –> 00:36:09:20
Yeah, we did. I mean
00:36:09:23 –> 00:36:12:14
For me and Clint, Clint, you owe me do it. You owe me. And
00:36:12:16 –> 00:36:13:17
You know what, were firstborn
00:36:13:20 –> 00:36:14:28
By all. I don’t want his firstborn
00:36:15:02 –> 00:37:22:04
By all means possible really just to keep it out. And luckily then just as, as you go through, you finish college, you got young family, usually kids that’s tough. Times are tough. You can only do what you can do. So we realized talking about here, so feels like we’re doing everything under the sun and you know, that’s what everybody should do. We fully, we, we weren’t that way and we just, everybody evolves through a different phase of their life. And hopefully financial situation gets a little bit more stable as you get, you know, into a career and start making some money and settle and put down roots and all that. But whatever your situation is, get a plan and do as much as you can, as much as you can get away with within reason, realizing there’s things that you have to do. It’s with families and all that. We all are family guys and we have to put those things first in our lives. But we also have said, like we’ve said in other podcasts, we don’t have a lot of other, if, if any expensive hobbies. We don’t. And you know, we don’t race motorbikes, we don’t, and nothing against anybody that does. But we just made that decision that our extra money goes into to hunting and you know, obviously we do family vacations, but as far as expensive hobbies, yeah. Hunting is our expensive
00:37:22:04 –> 00:37:23:01
Hobby. No, that’s it. Yeah. That’s
00:37:23:01 –> 00:37:42:01
It. And so, and it and, and wherever that is on your spectrum, invest the time and whatever resources you can set aside to get a plan long-term short-term plan and do it and you know, you know, you’re, you’re building for your future for you and your kids to draw tags even though you’re not maybe seeing something right now. Yeah.
00:37:42:14 –> 00:38:26:06
So I kind of wanted to maybe just kind of break it down a little bit for guys in our December issue we did cover like the different species and the must apply four states. And so just to kind of, you know, I don’t know, back to basics so to speak. If you are interested in mul deer, we definitely recommend applying for Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, Nevada, Utah and Wyoming. Now Wyoming, you know, it is not the Mulder mecca that it, that it once was. There’s obviously a few giants that come outta Wyoming, but gaining a point isn’t that expensive. And there are things you can do. There’s some private land outfitters, there’s all kinds of different things and if you don’t have the points, you can’t prep for the future. At least get the points. I have points and if something comes available I can go. Yeah.
00:38:26:20 –> 00:38:33:24
And the nice thing is zero those points. Six. Yeah. Zero to six points will get you all the general tags in the state. You know, the G is probably the worst at about six.
00:38:33:24 –> 00:38:34:06
Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:34:19 –> 00:38:55:19
But I mean mean most of ’em are zero to two general season you can go as often as you want. Treat it like almost like Colorado. They do have a few limited entry units. When I say a few, you know, a couple handfuls and all reality, but they’re not, they don’t manage like other states for true trophy end. I mean I hunted one last year and it was just what we thought. Lots of bucks, lots of nice bucks. Not, not
00:38:55:19 –> 00:39:01:22
Just lots Adam ’em we’re talking truckloads. Hundreds. I heard semis, truck fulls. That’s what Jeff said. 400 bucks.
00:39:02:03 –> 00:39:10:16
You can, you can line a two. What did I say? You could line a two ton with with bucks or you could line a semi with, with 160 inch plus type deer, there was just
00:39:10:16 –> 00:39:12:29
Running off the end of your pickup truck. Oh, I’m
00:39:12:29 –> 00:39:13:04
Telling you.
00:39:14:09 –> 00:39:16:13
Headed on the side of the road. I mean
00:39:17:06 –> 00:39:20:01
Unit 1 28, 1 of the top units in the state. But just a good
00:39:20:02 –> 00:39:35:08
Experience. Good deer but but not but not a true limited entry. I had max points and I’m glad now to just go, whenever I got out the window of time for five days or a week somewhere I’ll put in for generals for the rest of my life. Yeah. I’ll ne I won’t chase a limited entry hunt ever probably again.
00:39:35:13 –> 00:39:54:00
And so with the Arizona, you know, like in Arizona you can, you gain points, deer points or deer points if you change and all of a sudden you got a little coo deer thing going on, you want to use those for coo deer, you can. And I’ve done that. I’ve drawn the, I’ve drawn mule deer trophy mule there, went and killed a good buck and then a few years reset
00:39:54:00 –> 00:39:56:18
The zero was two 70. Good.
00:39:57:15 –> 00:40:09:29
And then went, don’t deviate from when you, I’m losing my thought process. And then you go, and then I went you early, early season Coe deer, you know what mean you did co and now I’m looking at an archery deer maybe. Yeah. Or something, you know what I mean? And so
00:40:10:04 –> 00:40:15:19
All of a sudden a big gen a buck pops up somewhere in the state and you got five points and maybe that’s a draw unit. Go for a weird
00:40:15:25 –> 00:40:33:04
Unit then go. Yeah. And so I, I think where and, and where you’re doing other species, like you’re gonna do deserts, right? Most guys are gonna do deserts. You’re do elk, most guys are gonna do elk. It’s just a very, very minimal fee to go ahead and get your deer point. Why not do it? Right. And so same thing with Colorado. Get your preference points no matter what. And that’s a fallback state just
00:40:33:04 –> 00:40:40:16
Gives you options. If you want to go this year and you got five points in Colorado, you can go hunting if you’ve got two points you can go hunting if you got you 12 points, if
00:40:40:16 –> 00:41:01:11
You have zero, you can go zero. You can go hunting and gain a point. That’s right. There are so many options in Colorado and that’s what I think, and I do wanna, I do wanna discuss it just a little bit. Colorado is the mecca for mule there. That doesn’t mean it, you’re gonna kill a giant. It doesn’t, back in mid two thousands you couldn’t do anything wrong, phenomen you couldn’t do anything wrong. It’s just
00:41:01:16 –> 00:41:04:29
A lot of good options over there. It’s not clear cut. Even
00:41:05:05 –> 00:41:05:12
A lot of
00:41:06:01 –> 00:41:09:08
20 points. It’s not clear cut on where a guy should go a 20. Well
00:41:09:08 –> 00:41:17:00
It’s not, well you could go in 44 on the third or fourth season if it’s warm and dry, you’re gonna hard press to kill a hundred, kill 180. And that’s the best unit in the state.
00:41:17:00 –> 00:41:20:25
You get on some of the, some of these fours and some of these units. That’s
00:41:20:25 –> 00:41:20:28
Right.
00:41:21:13 –> 00:41:28:13
You know, you’re, you’re at the mercy of the weather. You might, you might be getting down at the hunt and say that was nowhere near where 20 points.
00:41:28:18 –> 00:41:43:11
Which it goes to our point, Adam, of talking to a lot of our clients is we tell ’em, use your points often. Do not get more than 10 points. No, don’t do it. And if you’ve got more than 10, I don’t know what to say, I don’t know. You’re gonna burn something on an eight point type year, like a 20 and pray two third or whatever and pray
00:41:43:11 –> 00:41:49:24
That you get the right year because now you can’t turn your tag in except for 30 days before the hunt if you want. So you don’t
00:41:49:24 –> 00:41:50:20
Know what the weather’s gonna do.
00:41:50:28 –> 00:41:58:13
You can’t see that. That’s right. So you’re gonna have to just get lucky. Yeah. You’re gonna have to put yourself in a situation and get some weather and make to make it great.
00:41:58:17 –> 00:42:04:00
Well, and for guys that are just loaded now, if you’re loaded with, you got plenty of hunts going on, then yeah. Just apply for some of the
00:42:04:25 –> 00:42:06:05
Loaded with hunts. Not money loaded
00:42:06:05 –> 00:42:23:11
With hunts. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? I get it. You know, applying a unit that you’re, you got 10 plus points, keep applying. You know, you might be, you might be booked up plenty of hunts, but, but if you’re, if you’re, you know, the average guy, there’s no reason to hold out. I mean Yeah, there’s not, I
00:42:23:11 –> 00:42:41:22
Mean you killed a 200 inch or well we found you was 200 after we ripped him off the wall. Jeff’s like, I got a dank up here. I just really want to go to a good unit. I’m like, pull that freaking deer down. I’m gonna measure it. Oh, I, I’m tired of being told it’s 190 inches. Come to find out it’s 196 or seven freaking dried out after years and years.
00:42:41:28 –> 00:42:46:26
194 after dried out here. But he’s a, he is an incredible player. Let’s go
00:42:46:26 –> 00:42:48:22
Back to the video. If listeners
00:42:48:22 –> 00:42:49:01
Haven’t
00:42:49:03 –> 00:42:50:07
Watched that YouTube video,
00:42:50:10 –> 00:42:51:16
Go on YouTube and find it.
00:42:51:20 –> 00:42:52:26
It’s hilarious. I’m not
00:42:52:26 –> 00:42:53:06
Too worried
00:42:53:06 –> 00:42:58:12
About the story about deer. I love him anyway. Smoked it in what unit? 75. 75 Never will go back. I’m like,
00:42:58:23 –> 00:42:59:12
No, I me back twice.
00:42:59:20 –> 00:43:02:25
Okay. All right. Well the other day I heard, I don’t know where to go. Well
00:43:02:26 –> 00:43:09:23
No. Well a bunch of the bbl M like the bbl M where I killed that deer is gone. Yeah. No longer in existence. So it’s,
00:43:09:23 –> 00:43:11:18
What do you mean a disappeared crater? They sold it,
00:43:11:27 –> 00:43:28:06
Dude, it’s locked up private. Yeah. Really? Most of July traded or they split it in half somehow. So I guess once the bbl m reaches a certain amount of, I don’t know all the rules to it, but, but now you could hunt this entire little b l m chuck. Well now there’s a, there’s a gated fence, private property, yada yada on it. And I’m
00:43:28:06 –> 00:43:29:19
Like, probably do the land swap or something.
00:43:29:25 –> 00:43:30:17
Yeah. Or something
00:43:30:23 –> 00:43:33:02
To group up property somewhere else. They occasionally do that.
00:43:33:06 –> 00:43:34:25
I know. So it, it’s a heartbreaker when you start
00:43:34:27 –> 00:43:41:26
Take these podcasts with a grain of salt. We’re not, we don’t have exact, you know, land swaps and everything. We don’t
00:43:41:26 –> 00:43:42:04
Know exact
00:43:42:04 –> 00:43:45:02
Rules, tools, but all a sudden happens. But it’s getting tougher. That’s what you’re saying? Yes, yes.
00:43:45:29 –> 00:43:55:01
But once again, I mean, you do want to go back. ’cause you look at the record books and they’re piling up big buck. Like the genetics are right there. Yeah. Genetics are right. Well, and you can draw that tack.
00:43:55:06 –> 00:43:56:01
Genetics are amazing.
00:43:56:01 –> 00:44:00:04
Those units and the ones that east of there, 77, 78 feed New Mexico, a lot of their,
00:44:01:18 –> 00:44:03:23
There’s tub and they just jump on,
00:44:03:25 –> 00:44:04:17
On the highway down to
00:44:04:17 –> 00:44:14:00
Cortes. So anyway, our, I guess our point is, is in Colorado, it’s one of those states you just, you gotta do but don’t expect the world. We did a isn’t the Henry Mountain stuff. We did
00:44:14:01 –> 00:44:34:22
A whole podcast last year on Colorado and we could do it again. Go back and listen to that. It would be a lot of, you’d get a lot of ambiguity and uncertainty from us when, because there’s no number one for, for every point here. There’s not, there’s a lot of options. And you gotta discuss second season, what do you like third season? Yeah. Archery or muzzle loader and,
00:44:34:29 –> 00:44:39:06
And you like driving around. Do you like high country? Do you like backpack, horseback? I mean we’re
00:44:39:06 –> 00:44:49:02
Big fans of going every zero to five years in Colorado. Go hunting, go there three to four times versus going once on a, I put all my eggs in this basket type hunt.
00:44:49:07 –> 00:45:04:04
So that brings us to Idaho. I think Idaho, you know, in our opinion there’s, it is not a point state, so you can’t tell when you’re gonna get drawn per se. You can play the odds. I drew a unit 42 tag and the odds were one and nine roughly. And so you can play the odds. That was
00:45:04:04 –> 00:45:04:25
A cool hunt by the way.
00:45:05:01 –> 00:45:41:16
Yeah, it was cool. We hit it a little late. They read early. I mean, they’re November 1st. They’re Rutten. Yes. And and we hit what about the 10th? Yeah, just fell a little bit late. But anyway, did kill a short forked, big eye guard course. Killed him for the I guards. But anyway, wide deer. He was 32. Yeah, exactly. 30. Yeah. He was a wide deer. But, but it was right at the tail end. He, he was picking up the last dough that was in heat. But anyway, Idaho is one of those states we definitely recommend applying. If you’re doing sheep, goat, or moose, you can’t do deer and elk and antelope. You know, you, you have to choose. And so some years Adam and I do sheep or goat, and one year I did moose and drew it kind of played the other. Yeah,
00:45:41:16 –> 00:45:47:18
Those years that we drug deer. I drew a deer too. You have to sit out the deer. The next year they have a one year waiting period. If you drew an atler deer
00:45:47:21 –> 00:45:48:13
Tag, still do the general,
00:45:48:17 –> 00:46:04:16
You know, so we did sheep and, and I normally do sheep there. You know, this year you’ll notice we did the sheep, moose, and goat issue in the March issue. You notice an increase in the non-resident application fee. It’s up to $41 and some cents. I can’t remember exactly what’s
00:46:04:16 –> 00:46:10:13
Crazy is. And then they’re making you use the book, the, the two year book. And in there the fee’s printed from last year’s
00:46:10:13 –> 00:46:31:07
Fee. But they changed the fees and they warn you all over, this is not the new fee. Do not use the application worksheet in the 2017 18 moose, sheep, and goat regs. The application fee there is wrong. So the ones that we have in the magazine are right. Don’t think we’re stupid ’cause it doesn’t match the regulations. They change the fees and they changed some of the resident permit fees
00:46:31:13 –> 00:46:31:20
As well.
00:46:32:09 –> 00:46:59:23
Well, I don’t know exactly. I mean legislative or the state can, you know, they, they can change fees on an annual basis and so they set the regs for two years, but they can change. So overall it’s about 200 bucks non-refundable. Now. It used to be 15 or 16 bucks plus the $155 license. Some rounding. That’s right. But now it’s $41 plus. So it’s, it’s getting more expensive to do sheet moose and goat. Now if you do the deer, elk, and antelope, it’s still the 14 or $15 application fees for those. Yeah. Later
00:46:59:23 –> 00:47:13:26
On in. So anyway, just a couple of things. You know, we do, you know, we do recommend applying in Idaho even though it’s not a point state. They kill big deer. And of course you can use that hunting license if you have to justify it just so it doesn’t go unused, then go wolf hunting or something like that.
00:47:13:28 –> 00:47:14:18
Get a general deer
00:47:14:18 –> 00:47:47:23
Over counter deer. Yeah, I’ve already got my gentle deer coming. So anyway. And then Nevada, it’s a definite must apply for state for, for mul deer killing some good bucks over there. One of my favorite things about Nevada is we’ve got, got big unit groups, usually big groups and tons and tons of ground compared to the tags they give. And so you just feel like you have it to yourself. Obviously there’s a few big bucks that get some pressure and maybe you gotta compete a little bit. But generally Nevada’s just an awesome opportunity. So M would be more rifle.
00:47:48:02 –> 00:48:05:28
Utah would be much like a Nevada, it’s not a tag. You’re gonna draw off on a limited entry deer tag. In Utah, we’ve talked about the general and dedicated stuff, but for limited entry or trophy, however you want to label those in Utah for non-residents and residents alike, they’re tough to get. You’re gonna wait, you’re gonna wait for those. So, so
00:48:05:28 –> 00:48:22:10
That kind of wraps up our mule deer opportunities there. Of course there are landowner tags, guided hunts. Jeff works with a lot of different outfitters, not lots, I mean a lot of different outfitters. And we end up with a lot of opportunities that you can just buy your way in if you wanna buy a tag, but buy an, there’s some options. Hunt ahead. Yep,
00:48:22:10 –> 00:48:23:17
Yep. There’s options for sure.
00:48:24:02 –> 00:49:14:02
So anyway, for elk, we definitely recommend must apply for states would be Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Utah, and Wyoming. And these are, keep in mind in relation to quality Idaho, you know, is what we put as an other state to consider. There’s a couple good units in Idaho. If you’re doing deer, you, you should in fact do elk in Idaho as well. And then we also put on Montana in there, there’s been some great bulls killed in Montana and definitely one to consider. So Arizona, no, no, no brainer. It’s known for big bulls. Adam and I have both hunted it and, and done well there. So as far as New Mexico, well it’s one of my favorite states personally to apply for. They do have the guide draw and that does help your drawing odds. If you’re gonna go guided, choose an outfitter, get a contract and go in the guide, draw Yeah,
00:49:14:02 –> 00:49:15:08
You’re crazy not to do that.
00:49:15:13 –> 00:49:30:28
And if you consider, okay, you know, we get a lot of guys asking about New Mexico landowner tags will take, you know, several, several units, you know, they might cost you six to 7,500 bucks to to, to purchase those landowner tags. Well you turn around or
00:49:30:28 –> 00:49:31:19
12 or 14.
00:49:31:21 –> 00:49:53:18
Yeah. Or 12 or 14 there. And, and if you look at the auctions that have happened lately, even more than that. But, but, but yeah, you consider the guide draw increasing your odds. You might be able to jump in the guide, draw with a guy, pay the outfitter 5,500 bucks for a fully guided food and everything and have and, and get that for less than you would pay for a landowner tag. You know what I mean?
00:49:53:19 –> 00:49:54:05
Do it on your
00:49:54:05 –> 00:50:05:08
Own. Yeah. And doing it on and then pay for everything on your own. So why not? If you’re willing to spend the money on a landowner tag, why not jump in the guide draw, see if you can draw it. Yeah. Then go after the land owner tag. Yep.
00:50:05:11 –> 00:50:06:07
And so makes sense.
00:50:06:28 –> 00:50:07:04
Straight. The
00:50:07:04 –> 00:50:40:26
Guides thing, one thing, one of my favorite parts about New Mexico, there are big bulls and weird obscure units. It’s not You did it last year. Yeah. And so, you know, whether it be, you know, the 23, the 30 sevens, the 30 eights, the eighteens, the whatever, there’s just a grundle, the twelves and thirteens obviously people know about and and whatnot. But there are big bulls in many different areas. And so it’s not just, you don’t just have to go for two or three options, you know, all three choices count on your application too, which is nice. So go through your first, second, third, then go to the next guy. And
00:50:40:26 –> 00:51:20:06
The good thing about New Mexico is being that there’s no point system you can treat every year uniquely. If you’re like hungry for a tag one year you get more aggressive, maybe put one tough to draw and then two average to get tags. If you just want to get a, get an elk tag, get more aggressive. But if you’ve got a lot going stick to the very best or in some cases, yeah, you could sit it out if you know I’ve already got an awesome elk tag. Yeah. And, and I’m going archery elk hunting here and I can’t, I, you know, stick to the best, stick to the very best one or switch weapons, you know, I normally will favor archery. Last year I didn’t, I went to the muzzle loaded rifle because I knew I was gonna be archery hunting in Arizona with a 99% probability.
00:51:20:08 –> 00:52:05:04
So I, I didn’t want another awesome archery elk tag in New Mexico. I went, went with the different weapon types. But the guide draw there, unlike the, the guide draw for mule deer in Nevada, which only applies to rifle. All species are are have a guide draw option in New Mexico. All opens all species, you know, antelope, deer, elk, sheep, ibex, orx, everything. You get placed into a separate pool for 10 where 10% of the licenses is for people that are going to apply with an outfitter and only 6% get set aside for non-residents that are applying on their own. The residents get 84%. So not only do you get more per percent bigger piece of the pie, there’s generally less applicants in the guide pool. So your odds are most notably, you know, a lot better.
00:52:05:08 –> 00:52:26:07
A lot better. And I think the only other places they have the guide pool is Idaho has a few opportunities for outfitters to have a guided draw quote draw as well as Nevada Nevada’s got a very popular deer guide pool for ri, like Adam said, rifle hunts only. So if you’re gonna arrive hunt Nevada, you should be going in the guide draw, which is due March 9th coming
00:52:26:07 –> 00:52:33:25
Up March 9th. It’s coming right up. And you can’t apply for that one. And the regular deer draw you used to 10 years ago or so. Yeah. Able to do both.
00:52:34:05 –> 00:52:37:01
Geez. They even gave a point for each one early, early. So,
00:52:37:08 –> 00:52:53:25
But now you have to pick one or the other. And keep in mind if you like to mix weapons on the five weapon or five choices in Nevada, you like to mix some rifle and and muzzle an archery, you shouldn’t probably consider the guide draw then if you’re only a rifle mul deer hunter and you’re gonna get a guide, you should always apply in the mul deer guide draw.
00:52:53:25 –> 00:52:54:20
You should. And and the
00:52:54:20 –> 00:53:07:12
Odds for some units are pretty good. One in three, one in four for certain units in the state. Now not the very, very best in Lincoln County, but if you want to hunt 170 inch mule deer in Nevada, no
00:53:07:16 –> 00:53:08:02
Brainer. You
00:53:08:02 –> 00:53:09:06
Can do it very, you can
00:53:09:18 –> 00:53:18:08
Frequently. And so yeah, and if you need a help choosing a guy or you’d like a few phone numbers, feel free to give us a call and we’ll definitely get you on that track. It does need to happen quick.
00:53:18:18 –> 00:53:47:24
Much like the Arizona and New Mexico, Utah’s known for big bulls but they’re very tough to draw. Yeah. 10 bucks to apply for Utah. It’s real tough. You should consider, if you don’t have a lot of points, look at the different weapon types or the rifle seasons in November. They’re very underutilized in our opinion in terms of the, there’s some big bulls available. There are some units that you are gonna ask for a rough hunt. Very thick timber in November. But other units are are awesome. One
00:53:47:24 –> 00:54:33:07
Of the questions we get a lot of Adam and you know, unlike a lot of states, they give prime rut dates for the archers. That’s not the case in Utah. No. We have kind of a pre rutt archery hunt and then you know, getting a lot better starting September 15th ish rifle for the rifle. And then the muzz loader is prime rat. And I really like that muzz loader hunt. A lot of guys ask us about that. Definitely well worth doing the muzzle. Yeah and like Adam said, those late rifles can be awesome too. So, and then Wyoming, no, no brainer. You can kind of tell when you’re gonna get drawn in Wyoming and we love that about Wyoming. You can, you can make plans and there’s a lot of different options and a lot of different units whether it be general or whatever units across the entire state. And so, you know, like, like I said, my son drew with six points and we’re excited to go and you can do things with not a lot of points. Yeah.
00:54:33:13 –> 00:55:18:13
Montana, you did mention that as another option. The one big change that occurred in the summer of 2017 was you can do points only now in in Montana for Deere but also for the elk. And not have to do the tricky, get your general tag as the first prerequisite, then you’re in for the special draw. And if I don’t draw that, I don’t want my general and you end up losing 200 bucks. It’s gone expensive build points in the summer for Montana elk. The archery elk tags in the eastern part of the state generally aren’t that difficult to draw for a lot of the Missouri breaks in different, different areas. You’re gonna want to build points for those. Our suggestion is probably to build a few points there when you want to try to draw, you’re still gonna have, try and get the general tag that year and then apply for the special area that you’re hoping to get.
00:55:18:13 –> 00:56:16:01
If you get it, great. If not, you’re gonna have to either get a refund or whatever you want. So definitely is elevated in our minds the, the feasibility for non-residents to be considering that one. When you, when you talk about Colorado for elk, there’s, they’re everywhere, but they just simply don’t have enough quality limited draw units around the state to meet the demand of all the flooded point applicants. They just don’t, they can’t work ’em through the system. That’s why you see the units in the northwest corner or even now units 40 and unit 61 climbing to crazy numbers. What they’re taking to draw versus what the, the quality’s available. Yeah, I mean 60 one’s an awesome public land unit and there’s a few, three 50 to three 70 bulls that would come off it. But really it’s a unit where you’re gonna hunt three 20 to three 30 bulls. And most people that wait 20 plus years to draw an elk hunt, they’re expecting a whole lot more than that. So if you’re thinking of starting out in Colorado, you should really analyze
00:56:16:01 –> 00:56:35:26
It. Just don’t have or or just don’t have high expectation. Yeah. Now you don’t have to front the fees necessarily and if you ended up hunting in the state state the year prior, it’s gonna be cheap. It’s three bucks to gain points. If you didn’t hunt the year prior, it’s gonna be 40 bucks unless you, you know, buy some kind of hay fishing license or whatever. So from the year prior, so anyway, just keep that in mind, you know, but
00:56:35:26 –> 00:56:37:08
Not a no brainer to to do for elk.
00:56:37:14 –> 00:56:40:29
Don’t feel bad if you’d miss out for sure. Anything else you guys want to add
00:56:41:02 –> 00:56:56:01
On elk? I don’t know. I mean they got elk in Oregon. Kinda the same thing if you’re gonna do sheep. We haven’t really started talking about sheep and I think we lump the Oregon, the, the California stuff kind of together. We’ll in a bit when we maybe talk about sheep and, and the add-on species over there. Well
00:56:56:01 –> 00:57:10:08
I think it’s a lot to keep track of. And for those of you who aren’t members, that’s what the magazine’s for. Yeah, you can go on. We detail each state, you know, as they come out, goes through all the details of, of the same things that we’re talking about.
00:57:10:13 –> 00:57:30:00
Yep. Just get that magazine each month you, it’ll be clear on our take on each species in each state, whether states even something you should really consider, but in our opinion. So overall, use each magazine as that come each month and evaluate whether a state’s for you or not based on the cost to apply and and everything like that. What does that bring us antelope.
00:57:30:00 –> 00:57:55:14
That brings us to antelope. One of my favorite species. And so antelope must apply for states, Adam, we, let’s go with Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, Wyoming, and then, you know, definitely must apply for states. You gain points. Arizona, Nevada do not gain points in New Mexico as we’ve talked. And then Wyoming, you can gain points. You can tell when you can draw guys with even one point. I’ve got guys we’re doing in license app service. Yeah. Want to draw? We’re gonna get ’em drawn. Yeah. So there’s
00:57:55:14 –> 00:58:11:21
Something for everybody up there. Some of those zero to one or two point units, you’re probably gonna have to look at Eastern Wyoming. Yeah. Where the amount of private land goes way up. You may have to pay for some access or an outfitter, but you don’t have to wait long years to go hunt antelope in Wyoming they got That’s right. They got antelope everywhere and options are endless pretty much. Yeah.
00:58:11:23 –> 00:58:32:20
Good bucks. And so same with Arizona. It’s a no brainer. Minimal fee to apply Nevada. Minimal fee to apply on top of your already purchased hunting license if you’re doing any other species. And so anyway, New Mexico, it’s a no brainer. It’s big bucks down there and then, and then Wyoming. So as far as you know, some guys are doing Colorado. I’ve got a lot of points in Colorado from years and years ago.
00:58:33:11 –> 00:58:35:08
I can’t wait till you burn those. I just,
00:58:37:06 –> 00:58:37:10
I
00:58:37:12 –> 00:58:44:29
Just, I am looking forward to it for some reason. I, we talk about it every year. It’s just, ’cause I know it’s this little outlier pull of points he has over there.
00:58:45:25 –> 00:59:05:27
I’m waiting for the mentor program and everything else anyway. And then Idaho, another one of those states had a, had a new unit cluster open up last year. There’s, there’s some decent potential. Nothing, you know, to really write home about. Same Montana, we did have a good friend of ours kill a good buck up there. There’s some decent potential in Montana.
00:59:05:27 –> 00:59:53:26
You could, you could almost add that to the, almost the next must apply for odds aren’t that difficult. You can get a, an Eastern Montana tag either the archery 900 or the 700 rifle pretty easily and a lot of options. Yeah. Mix the public and private lands and block management out there, which is a program Montana has instituted for, well not just antelope for deer, elk and antelope, you know, access properties to privately contracted properties that people in agreements with the state. Those maps come out usually in about August of every year for you to be able to find out what properties are enrolled and, and yeah, go hunt them or the adjacent B l m and have good hunts. I mean Montana’s not a difficult state to, to draw. They aren’t known for giant antelope but they kill a few every year. That’s right. They’re really, really good
00:59:54:01 –> 01:00:34:02
Bugs. That’s right. With one of our outfitters. So anyway, if you do draw tag and you wanna not fight with the public versus private, you want to go outfit it, just give us a holler. We definitely got guys killing some great boxing. So same with Oregon. Oregon is known. Don’t give very many non-resident tags all, it’s really kind of disappointing. However, they do kill good enough bucks, we can’t pass it by. And we got some good friends up there in Oregon that we don’t wanna offend. Definitely have some good quality even of every species there. Even, you know, they’ve got private land and a lot of different things for elk and deer and whatnot. And there are some good animals taken just generally speaking their management practice as a whole and stinginess to friendliness. Yeah, stinginess three
01:00:34:03 –> 01:00:34:22
To 5%.
01:00:34:27 –> 01:00:47:13
That’s right. Yeah, that’s right. So anyway. And then Utah, no brainer for 10 bucks if you’re gonna be applying for something, might as well add Utah. And they’re not known for big bucks however, Colton, yeah, he drew an expo tag. I forgot
01:00:47:13 –> 01:00:48:04
About that. Yeah.
01:00:48:04 –> 01:00:56:12
So yeah, another one of those tags, he kind of got a plan around Colton who did draw the Wyoming elk also got an antelope tag here in Utah. And so it’s the year of the tags for him and
01:00:56:18 –> 01:01:05:05
Through the Western Hunting Conservation Expo. You probably heard that on some of the earlier podcasts. But they have those $5 tags you can enter and he won. He won one of those.
01:01:05:15 –> 01:01:07:24
So yeah, he did. So anyway, let’s get to the
01:01:07:24 –> 01:01:08:05
Good stuff.
01:01:09:19 –> 01:01:10:13
Okay, here we go.
01:01:10:15 –> 01:01:11:06
Done with antelope,
01:01:11:06 –> 01:01:30:11
We’re jumping into the sheep. Let’s start with desert Sheep must apply for states. Definitely apply for Arizona, Nevada, and Utah. No brainer must apply for states non must apply for states. Be California, Colorado, you’ve gotta choose. You can do deserts, you can do Rockies, but you can’t get points for deserts. There is no point system. There’s
01:01:30:11 –> 01:01:31:06
Only one tag to
01:01:31:06 –> 01:01:32:06
Non-resident, one non-resident
01:01:32:06 –> 01:01:38:17
Tag and up to 10%, which has been only one in California in recent years. And so maybe just address why, why
01:01:38:17 –> 01:01:53:06
75, 20 5% rule where 75% of tags go to people at the most points, which is max. If you don’t have max in California, chances are that one or two non-resident tags, depending on the year and the total tag numbers would go to a max point holder. So you’re just sitting there.
01:01:53:07 –> 01:02:24:17
You may be applying buying a license and applying for something that doesn’t even exist by the time it gets to the random draw. Yeah. And with Colorado, the odds have been about one in four hundreds it seems like for that one non-resident desert tag because you’ve had to choose, like Jason said, between Rocky or desert and you know the Rockies have a point system. It’s where we’ve applied for a lot of years. We’re kind of committed down that road now 2018 now that you don’t have to front the fact tag fees, those odds gonnas are gonna be incredibly bad. No,
01:02:24:17 –> 01:02:24:25
But no
01:02:25:02 –> 01:02:30:00
Question. You know, one in 400 and something that was back when you had to front 1400 and something dollars to
01:02:30:00 –> 01:02:30:20
Apply. Well not that
01:02:30:25 –> 01:02:31:14
Now you don’t, you
01:02:31:14 –> 01:02:35:20
Have to fill out by paper, use their forms, cut ’em out, make sure the, for the whole
01:02:36:07 –> 01:02:38:05
Gets sent to all caps in a
01:02:38:05 –> 01:02:42:02
Letter number nine envelope or 10, I think it was nu 10 envelope. It just got to
01:02:42:02 –> 01:03:17:10
Be. But that, and even then there was 400 something applicants for the one tag. Now it’s gonna be, it’s gonna be astronomical. It will. So it’s hard to tell you that that’s a must apply for Utah. The reason we lumped that one in is you’re, if you’re gonna do it, it’s an extra 10 bucks for Rocky and Desert. You can build points for both. But like Jason said, the two no-brainers, if you want to try to get a desert sheep Nevada’s head and shoulders above any other one, they draw 28 to 31 or two non-resident desert tags a year more than all the other states combined. Arizona draws about 10. New Mexico draws three. Yeah, yeah. One in the unguided two,
01:03:17:10 –> 01:03:20:23
The two in the guy draw one in the Yeah and the guy draws open resonance too. Yeah.
01:03:20:27 –> 01:03:26:19
So you, you’re in it for three tags and yeah, if you’ve got room on your car, potentially two, yeah 3,200 bucks. You know, the odds are,
01:03:26:19 –> 01:03:32:12
That’s the one thing about New Mexico, they make you front the fees, which you know, I’m, I’m actually a fan of, well the
01:03:32:17 –> 01:04:07:16
Variety actually I’m glad every state isn’t the same. Me too. So you got different angles. Some states have pluses than the other states. That same thing is a minus. But so back to desert sheep, the toughest to ever count on drawing. You know, for most people the, the ability to try to draw a tag is the only way most people are gonna get a hunt on a desert sheep through a raffle or through a state draw. So it’s, you’re gonna dream same for Rockies. I guess maybe transition to those Jason in terms of Rocky, the Rockies Bighorn far because there are more states that that give good or good or what I would call better opportunities to draw.
01:04:07:25 –> 01:04:14:01
There’s more the names in the hat to be in. Yeah, with the Rockies. But having said that, we’ve always talked that these Rockies seem to be the bottleneck for for guys.
01:04:14:03 –> 01:04:15:08
No, it’s gonna happen. Yeah
01:04:15:08 –> 01:04:58:17
It is. It’s happened. You can buy deserts and other places and and whatnot, you know, so anyway, it’s hard to buy a rocky, it’s hard to buy. You go to Canada, you’re talking 30%, you know, success rates, 40 grand, 40 grand and then three, you know, three trips later you unit 120 grand, some of these guys. Yeah. So anyway, just kinda keep that in mind. It is a bottleneck. Something every, if you want a sheep definitely apply for these. Rockies must apply for states. We definitely consider Colorado. Of course we’re gonna jump into that one with now you don’t have to front the tag fees, you can be a lot of people going into that. And you need three preference points to even be really eligible to draw a tag. The rule states it goes to meet people at the most points, the most points is three that you can get. There’s so many people with three, it’ll never go to less than somebody with three.
01:04:58:17 –> 01:05:12:28
Then you get, then you get the weighted points after that, which effectively just increase your mathematical odds every year you get one of the weighted points. But, but moral of the story, the next three years are gonna be the best odds Colorado ever sees on Rockies. And then once the fourth year hits,
01:05:13:01 –> 01:05:15:23
Then you got everybody that now has three that’s truly eligible,
01:05:15:24 –> 01:05:17:01
They’re gonna crush this, then
01:05:17:09 –> 01:05:17:15
You’re gonna
01:05:17:15 –> 01:05:24:00
Get crushed the applicant. So I know we can’t wave a magic wand and try to get drawn in three years, but we we’re try to get, but we’re, we’re gonna try to do that.
01:05:24:03 –> 01:05:54:06
We’re gonna be waving something, we gonna, so anyway, and then as far as Idaho, of course we’ve talked about that in relation to the deer and the elk and whatnot. If you choose sheep, you can’t do anything else. Chew sheep, they’re pretty good odds. You know, if you truly like sheep chew sheep, we are limited to a maximum of 10% statewide as well as a unit by unit quota. But keep that in mind it, we don’t know what the tr odds truly are from a non-resident perspective. But we can tell you, you know, until we meet that quota you’re in with the residents and your odds of the are are your odds.
01:05:54:15 –> 01:06:02:28
We’ve broken that down in the magazine, both from a total non-res, I think it was 1200 and something last year. Yeah, nine tags were well
01:06:03:01 –> 01:06:04:01
And we drew a good chunk of those
01:06:04:07 –> 01:06:37:20
Six rocky in three California. But, and also give you an idea of how many non-res applied for each unit. But there’s not non-resident odds for each unit. You can’t calculate that we’re in the hat with residents and as each non, as the draw progresses, each non-resident that draws and does not have the statewide quota been met or the individual unit quota been met, it’s successful. And then all the other non-residents for sheep, at least since there’s no more than one sheep tag can go to any individual unit. The rest of the non-residents that are drawn in that unit after that first successful non-resident was picked
01:06:38:07 –> 01:06:39:25
Or skipped or nolen void. Yep.
01:06:40:03 –> 01:06:50:06
And so your odds get progressively better. Let’s say the first non-resident that gets drawn comes outta unit 11 when there was 200 non-residents supplied for that. They’re all outta the hat for the next, you know, five or six.
01:06:50:20 –> 01:06:55:13
And if a resident’s drawn, yeah they’re all outta the hat. Plus it didn’t go to toward our 10% quota statewide. That’s right.
01:06:55:21 –> 01:07:08:04
So it’s a, it’s a progressively changing odds as every non-resident gets picked. That’s right. It’s kind of confusing but that’s the way we portray it. The way we do. But it is a, it is probably a must apply state, it’s ground floor. Especially
01:07:08:04 –> 01:07:49:06
Some of these California drawings. Yeah, they’ve got Californian Rockies of course basically the same species as far as BO and Crockett’s concerned. But at the same time, some of those California big horn units, definitely a little bit easier, higher kind of in that higher success. Yeah, down in that lower desert. Some of ’em can be early season hot. But anyway, definitely look at those Montana, no brainer. Biggest Rockies out there. Having said that, we have not drawn, we have max points and we keep trying tough to draw up there in the state of Montana, but, but well worth doing Nevada, California, you know we’ve got the California big horns, usually there’s four. There is again this year, four units available to non-residents. Apply for all four. You get five choices on your application.
01:07:50:07 –> 01:07:52:11
Rocky hasn’t been available for what, eight or 10 years
01:07:52:11 –> 01:08:08:27
Maybe? Yeah, it’s been while ever since they had the die off up there in the Rubes and whatnot. So anyway. And then Utah, for you non-residents, you know, here at residents we have to choose one of the ones in lifetimes, one of the other species and general deer and then you guys get to do everything. So no brainer. And
01:08:09:14 –> 01:08:23:13
I guess we’ll talk about Wyoming. Wyoming has been one of those over the years, if you have a bunch of points built up, 75% of the tags go to the people with the most points and the other 25% go randomly. So because of that system, there’s only, if there’s
01:08:23:17 –> 01:08:24:17
Unit with flexing
01:08:24:28 –> 01:08:37:24
That’s right or five, five units, sorry, that actually even give a random tag units 1, 2, 3, 4, and five. So if you don’t have, let’s just say 17 points or more, you should be applying for unit one through five because no brainer,
01:08:37:27 –> 01:08:38:26
You’re not, you’re gonna be
01:08:38:26 –> 01:08:52:05
Wasting your application somewhere else. And now that they have increased the fees slightly and the bonus point fee to $150, it’s, it’s getting pretty costly out of pocket every year to do a Wyoming sheep. You
01:08:52:11 –> 01:09:21:18
Don’t have a choice to participate in the point system or not. Even if the point system isn’t gonna help you because you’ll never have enough points to force a draw on one of the 75% of the tags refund. You still gotta pay it. They have, they’re gonna take it outta from your refund, refund, refund. Yep. So yeah, so anyway, as Adam says, definitely we apply, you know, units one through five unless you can force a draw somewhere, unlike a lot of other states, if they give one tag in a lot of other states, it’ll go to the random guy, it’ll go to anybody and everybody’s eligible to that. Not the case in Wyoming, it doesn’t matter what you’re talking about. First three tags,
01:09:21:19 –> 01:09:23:04
Elk first three tags go. Some of
01:09:23:04 –> 01:09:34:07
The elk units don’t have random draws. So you know, if there’s only two or three tags you go into the preference point holders. End of story. It’s very similar to Colorado in that, that respect until you get to that fourth tag. Yep.
01:09:34:15 –> 01:09:35:00
Alright.
01:09:35:19 –> 01:09:35:29
We do
01:09:36:02 –> 01:09:52:05
New Mexico, I guess you’d lump it just like we did. The desert has two unguided or two guided tags and one unguided every year for Rockies. Very tough drawing odds. If you got the money on your cart, 3,200 bucks to apply for sheep in New Mexico, you get to do both sheep for the same cost. They don’t charge you 3,200 each. Right?
01:09:52:05 –> 01:10:01:19
Sheep or sheep? Well first choice would be, you know, deserts or Rockies and then the units you want under that. I’ll give you kind of a subcategory as far as your application concerned. And same thing on, on the Rockies. So
01:10:02:17 –> 01:10:03:00
Oregon,
01:10:03:03 –> 01:10:18:05
We’ve drawn Oregon tax. Yeah of course we’ve talked about that. But that’s probably one of the, you know, highlights of Oregon in, in regards to, you know, being able to have an opportunity to draw a tag, no points associated with sheep or goats. But while you’re doing it, you might as well kind of plug in for some of the other species. Species.
01:10:18:05 –> 01:10:41:04
Yeah. Eight bucks you can get your deer and elk points. Washington well established points system and they square your points. So it’s a little bit, I think overwhelming to look at that. And $110 sheep application up there, realizing how far you are behind the odds are really, really bad for Washington sheep. 110 bucks just starting into a squared point system that’s been around a long, long time. Same pool with
01:10:41:04 –> 01:10:41:26
The residents, it’s
01:10:41:26 –> 01:10:57:13
Pretty tough to justify but if you’re, you know, no hunting license to purchase, so it’s just a flat, about $110. I’m rounding on costs there, but not a no-brainer to to apply for sheep there. So goats and moose, where do we want to, do we wanna do that? Should
01:10:57:13 –> 01:11:03:10
We do it? All right. So as far as goats must apply for states, you know, Colorado of course you can gain points, you
01:11:03:22 –> 01:11:05:00
Change, that’s gonna change a little bit too.
01:11:05:00 –> 01:11:06:05
That change, same kind of thing.
01:11:06:09 –> 01:11:08:07
Odds are gonna get bad in three or four years from
01:11:08:07 –> 01:11:36:16
Now. That’s right. And there’s units you can do, you know, easily enough, self-guided. I’ve been down there with Roger Smith, good friend of mine and we just backpacked it and and killed, killed a goat. And then same thing with my dad, he drew G seven and enjoyed that hunt as well. And so anyway, great opportunities there. Idaho, if you’re not doing anything else in Idaho, throw in for a goat. I guess if you did choose goat you can’t do anything else. So that’s it. And then Montana, Adam, you’d drawn a Yeah. Goat up there in Montana. Think
01:11:36:16 –> 01:11:48:23
That was about the third year they started a point system. 2003. Yeah, so just got lucky and Drew killed a nice Billy and I’m back in again. You had a seven year wait and I’m back in. It’s a lot of goats in Montana. Did you take your
01:11:48:23 –> 01:11:49:05
Bear spray?
01:11:49:28 –> 01:11:51:23
I didn’t. Back then I had a gun.
01:11:53:14 –> 01:11:54:22
One gun between you and your brother.
01:11:55:00 –> 01:11:59:05
I don’t remember what he had. All I had to do is run faster than him. So
01:12:01:04 –> 01:12:02:13
You did see grizzly tracks, didn’t
01:12:02:13 –> 01:12:37:06
You? Oh yeah, we saw those, yep. Oh yeah. And then Wyoming is one we probably can’t forget when it comes to goats. No point system for the goat. Little bit unique. They have ’em for the sheep and the moose. Not enough goat tags probably to justify it. Overall point system. At least that’s probably why they haven’t done it. Only three units to apply for one unit. Unit three has two different seasons, but not a tremendous high number of goat tags, but it’s strictly random. They do make you pay the 2000 upfront deadlines, you know, end of end of February. So yeah, you may be in the hat for that or not. That’s probably, and then
01:12:37:08 –> 01:12:53:01
As far as, yeah Oregon can’t forget it’s got some great goats up there and it’s again, eight bucks if you’re applying for other things. So anyway, might throw in for that. Non-residents of course, no brainer add goats. We can’t do it if we’re doing anything else once in a lifetime species wise as residents. So
01:12:53:02 –> 01:12:59:02
Same with Nevada. 15 bucks it added on. They added it back last year. I don’t know if they’re gonna this year I haven’t seen. Yeah, I
01:12:59:04 –> 01:13:01:10
Actually came out the other day actually seen it, but I haven’t looked at that. They
01:13:01:10 –> 01:13:05:20
Brought it back last year. It’s been a absent for a while. But anyway, so
01:13:05:24 –> 01:13:18:02
Yeah, as far as bison, definitely Utah. Utah and Wyoming, you know, you know Utah’s a no brainer. Easy to do. You don’t have to front the money. Wyoming might be a little bit different case for some guys. Yeah,
01:13:18:02 –> 01:13:32:29
For sure. They jack Jack the money. 2,500 or so for a cow and 45 for a bull. It’s not cheap. It’s not cheap. No. Then you get to other states, you know there’s Arizona, Montana, there’s issues like Montana. Yeah, Montana, you’re hunting them out of the north and northwest side of Yellowstone Park late
01:13:33:10 –> 01:13:34:02
Can does this
01:13:34:02 –> 01:14:02:20
Year is a really, really tough hunt. We did have a good friend of ours, Rick French killing awesome bull on that hunt this year. He’s a resident. He had a lot of days. You’re counting on snow moving, moving bison outta Yellowstone Park off to, you know, huntable areas. Similarly, Arizona’s got ’em in unit 12, 12 a around Grand Canyon. They weren’t, they weren’t put there, but they found a place of where they could be left alone and that was the park. And there’s a lot, lot
01:14:02:20 –> 01:14:03:12
Of, they like to run to the park
01:14:03:17 –> 01:14:20:24
And they’ve had a lot of meetings about what to do with them. Those, those bystander harboring in the park. They have a couple different applications for ’em in, in Arizona. They’re, they’re very, very tough to get. And you know, one of the season application period has a very liberal season date. That’s right. The other one has little short ones and that’s
01:14:20:24 –> 01:14:22:23
Right. You get points on each one. So you get effectively
01:14:22:23 –> 01:14:23:14
Two, buy some points a
01:14:23:14 –> 01:14:37:28
Year, two points a year. It’s the only place I know that we can do that. That’s right. So anyway, pretty that kind of in a nutshell goes through the species didn’t really mean it to be such a grundle of information and kind of was it boring? Feels boring. Well
01:14:38:04 –> 01:14:43:20
We talk about this stuff. So if it comes across as we’re rambling too fast, we’re sorry, we,
01:14:44:04 –> 01:14:44:11
We
01:14:44:15 –> 01:15:32:29
We are apologize here every day as members of Epic Out or consultants here at Epic Outdoors for you members to call your a hundred dollars membership. It gets you the magazine to use as a tool to break down the states each month to help you decide what you wanna do and what, what personal application strategy or state species you want to add. But in addition to that, we’ve done this for decades and so give us a call if you have unit X or Y to, to bounce off of us or a run through a quick goat or a sheep application strategy or, or whatever, something that’s not clear in the mag. Well that, that’s part of your membership. That’s what we’re here to do. So it’s hard to throw it all out there in an hour, hour and a half podcast what we, what we think you should do. It’s not a one size fits all. We kind of run through it all. The magazine will go in much more depth to break it down. So
01:15:33:12 –> 01:15:41:06
Let’s, let’s see with all that information, are you guys ready to apply? You fired up? Well anything you’re gonna add to your strategy? What’d you think?
01:15:41:27 –> 01:16:12:10
Well, I don’t know. Yeah, there all sorts of stuff to think about but yeah, you know the changing state systems is something you gotta think about. I mean, just like you said, you’re waiting for a mentor thing in Colorado or something or you know, these states change and, and you look at Arizona and, and that one will kick you in the teeth if you said, you know what, I’m never gonna be in that max point pool and so I’m not gonna apply. That one will get you. Yeah. You know, and then next thing you know, all of a sudden they start giving random tags, they start doing some other things and then you’re like, oh shoot,
01:16:12:14 –> 01:16:24:05
That’s what happened. A lot of people, you know, applied like for Arizona and the max point draw got drawn on deer, call it wash, be done with it, and then all of a sudden they give random tags and you get more names in the hat for every, every point you
01:16:24:05 –> 01:16:25:25
Have. And we hear about these guys drawing random tags
01:16:26:03 –> 01:16:34:22
And they do. And so then all of a sudden you’re like, oh, I wish I’d have done that. And that’s the one thing I think about if people changing systems can’t predict be in your favor, predict and you can’t predict
01:16:34:22 –> 01:17:07:13
It and it could hurt you, it could help you it, if you can afford it, just build points. It gives you options in the future. And I, and I know there’s a couple of examples that we’ve kind of told you about like Colorado Elk that we’ve told you it’s not, if they were to ever change that system, you might be said, oh, I’m glad I have some points. So I guess if it’s cheap enough for you, which it kind of is now, you don’t have to front it. There’s an instance that, okay, build some points even if you have no idea what you’re gonna do with something and, and it’s a no-brainer in the states like Utah, Nevada, Arizona, that make you buy a license. Just get the points for the extra 10 bucks and other
01:17:09:10 –> 01:17:35:07
You can’t buy time. That’s what I told a couple of kids that came up to us at the expo. You know, do everything you can do to get the points. You cannot buy time and there’ll be a cha a time in your life when your finances change and you’ll wish you had had those points. You can’t buy ’em. So anyway, it’s pretty awesome opportunity for everybody that’s still with us. Let’s give ’em a little something something. Should we do a giveaway? Yeah, let’s give, let’s do giveaway. What are we gonna give? We’ve got a epic knife. Let’s throw that out there. Nobody has it. Let’s throw an edge.
01:17:35:20 –> 01:17:36:05
Awesome
01:17:36:12 –> 01:17:48:13
Knife. I’ve not seen one out there that I like quite as much as this. It’s got the longer thicker blade, it’s not gonna break on you. Yeah. Built by outdoor edge, super sharp, replaceable blade killer knife.
01:17:48:13 –> 01:17:51:01
Awesome. Changing it and it’s, you’re not taking your life
01:17:51:01 –> 01:17:52:18
In your own hands either. And
01:17:52:18 –> 01:17:55:12
It’s true. Okay, keep your finger. I might that blade
01:17:55:14 –> 01:17:56:22
Might be. Of course you might be, but
01:17:57:07 –> 01:18:12:08
Oh, so, and then, let’s see. So let’s do outdoor, an outdoor edge knife. It’s, you know, it’s laser etched with the epic logo. Freaking awesome deer. And then, so we’ll do that. Let’s do maybe a hat and what should we give away from Under Armour?
01:18:13:02 –> 01:18:14:00
Ooh, ooh,
01:18:14:01 –> 01:18:14:07
Ooh.
01:18:14:13 –> 01:18:25:29
Come on. Fat tire boots. Fat tire boots. Alright. Okay, let’s do a pair of fat tire boots, fat tire boots hat, epic knife. We’ll do all three. And should we do, should we do the promo code? They go to website Yep.
01:18:26:23 –> 01:18:32:05
Com Go to website, epic outdoors.com podcast section. And then in there there’s a place you can put in a code.
01:18:32:08 –> 01:18:33:25
Let’s put in the code. Apply now.
01:18:34:06 –> 01:18:37:17
Apply now apply now A P P L Y N O W
01:18:37:24 –> 01:18:47:18
Apply now. So let’s do that. We’ll give away an epic knife, a hat and a pair of fat tire boots of your size. Are we gonna able to work How
01:18:47:18 –> 01:18:56:00
Long? It’ll give you about a week to enter for that. So starting on February 28th, a week from then. Okay,
01:18:56:02 –> 01:19:04:23
So sounds good. Got a, got a week from the time you hear this basically to to get in. And so apply now is the code. Anything else as we wrap up, boys?
01:19:05:05 –> 01:19:55:13
No, just another thing to put out. You know, we talked a lot about applying, but when you draw a good tag, let us know about it. Whether you’re gonna need an outfitter or we need another Epic Outdoors member to talk with about it. We’ve got the Epic member experience database that we can send out to you. So there’s a purpose to all this madness, all this applying that we’re doing, you know, lines in the water. Jason, as we said earlier, there’s a purpose to it and that’s to get drawn and go hunting. And so when that happens, let us help set it up however we know how, maybe we have personal experience in the unit, maybe we don’t. But if you need an outfitter, we work with the best all over the Western states. We’ve vetted them. We know who we’re talking about when we say go with this guy or this individual here or this individual there. And if you are a self-guided individual, take advantage of that epic member experience database. So got something for everybody. So good luck in the draws and
01:19:56:14 –> 01:19:57:11
Apply, apply, apply.
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