EP 329: Q&A Part 4, Getting Ready for Rifle Season!

You're listening to the Epic Outdoors podcast brought to you by the Western Hunting and Conservation Expo and Utah Life Elevated. This is an event we don't miss. So come and see the whole Epic Outdoors crew February 13th through 16th, 2025 in Salt Lake City, Utah. For more details, go to HuntExpo.com.

Hey, everybody. Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, John Peterson. Of course, we've got Joshua Pollack, Devin Archibald, and Logie Bear's birthday, everybody. Everybody wish Logan a happy birthday on Sunday. He turned how old, Logan? 24. Wow. Geez. Wait till you turn 25. I can't wait. Wait till you turn 45. And then 50. The one hopeful thing is I'll never be as old as you. Whoa. Geez. He's smart. Geez. Says the kid who ate tater tots for lunch, for heck's sake. Did he today? Yeah. Did you eat tater tots? Tater tots are way better than french fries. It's the same reason why we have Teddy Grahams in the thing now. We've never had Teddy Grahams. Teddy Grahams. We do have Teddy Grahams. I'll admit, I've been crushing those. Those are so good. Capri Suns? Have you ever had a Capri Suns? Just Teddy Grahams. I was like, huh, I haven't had these forever.

We've got Logan over there with a little pile of Teddy Grahams at his computer. Almonds are two. And an applesauce and a Capri Sun, and I'm set for the day. Almonds are two. It's hard for my palate. I need Teddy Grahams. Anyway, happy birthday, Logan. Thank you. Whatever. We're going to go eat some cake here in a while. I heard that you had special requests, and Jana met those requests on whatever kind of cake you wanted. That was easy. I think, I don't know a single person in the office who doesn't request red velvet cake at this point. Oh, that's disgusting. What? It's amazing. I'm not a... It's the best. German chocolate, I like that. Red velvet's good. The frosting is like not real. Yeah. It is pretty amazing. Yeah, but I don't think anybody's ever requested a Toy Story-themed red velvet cake for Huxx. We've got candles. You're a rescue. Exactly. Woody and the crew. Yeah, exactly.

We have to have figurines on top of this cake. Is that true? It is Toy Story 3. It is? Oh, come on. Jeez. Wow. I didn't know that was an option. Hit him up. Logan at EpicOutdoors.com. Send him a little party hat or something. Everybody. Yeah. Or find him on the gram. Of course, he's all over the gram. You may find him on Tinder. I don't know. If you really want to wish me... That's probably where his best profile is. If you really want to wish me happy birthday, you can find my Venmo. Oh. Wow. Wow. Not bashful. Shame. These Gen Z guys are not... Hey, might as well try. That's their approach. Might as well try. I've seen people... This isn't derailing, but I've seen people who get their car booted or a parking ticket, and they'll post a picture of the boot or the parking ticket, and they'll post their Venmo. Yeah. Can you help me get my boot off my car? And they'll post their Venmo.

And they'll make the money. There's like several people that I have on social media that'll do that. Wow. I imagine. And they're your friends. You guys are attached. You're following them. They're following you. You guys are buddies. Yeah. I don't know them that well, but... I would not be friends with somebody like that. It's just strange. I guarantee they're Gen Z. Oh, yeah. I'm turned off by that. It's all young people. I mean... Have you done it? No. Love it. No way. First of all, I've never had my truck booted. Really? Never. I haven't lived on the edge. That's right. Parking in a red zone is living on the edge. Who hasn't been booted at college? Me? Yeah, I haven't. You're the only one. Well, park where you need to. I have never been booted by that. If you get a ticket from the school and never pay it, it'll eventually go away. Well, if you ask them, they'll just let you out of it.

What do they used to do? If you say, I have a parking tag, I just forgot to put it on my windshield or whatever, they'll just let you out of it. It's part of a liberal school. Those Venmo things, though, I see people write that, just married, just money, whatever. I'm like, how long have you been just married? You know? Yeah. Kind of makes me wonder. The chalk is baked onto the paint and the glass. They've been a significant partner for quite some time. Two and a half years. Yeah. Just married, two and a half years later. Still there, Venmo us. Give us a little gift somewhere. We need a pot and a pan. All right. But anyway, here we go. Let's throw a little shout out to the Expo Hunting Convention. Save the date, February 13th to the 16th, 2025. I don't know why I don't like that mantra, little saying, save the date. Save the date. It's used for everything. I don't know. Whatever.

Mark it on your calendars. Mark it on your calendars. Yeah. What else? Remember the date. Don't forget this time period. What do you want to say? Save the date. Whatever. That's fine. February 13th to the 16th. Buy your plane tickets. Coming up in the next 14 months. No, it's actually right around the corner. I did say, maybe you weren't at your desk, but I was like, I can't wait for next year. And I know it's October 8th. I love New Year's. You get to clear the plate. Start over. Clear the plate. We've still got stuff to hunt. Clean plate. It's not that we're slamming the door on 2024. Clean plate. Whatever. I don't know. Just the anticipation of getting something new. I know the tags I have right now. Filling your hunting schedule with Wapiti tags. Logan, your dad's calling me. What is... He did say he wanted to talk to Josh about not trusting beaver therapists. What are you doing?

I'm not doing anything. What are you doing? We're podcasting with your son. Right this minute. Right now. How's it going? What's up? Hey, hey. You know what? We got some people. We got some people, namely Devin, that needs some therapy. When he calls us, though... I got to talk about some stuff. The good thing is, though, is when Paul calls, he can't bill us because he called us. Yeah, you didn't call him. We actually can bill you. You know, I think... He's silent. You know, I've never had roles reversed on me. You don't want to say all that. You're used to having billable hours 24-7. It's true. Who are you billing at 2 a.m. for therapy? I think since Josh has this issue with Beaver County, guys, I think he should be the one that foots the bill. Okay. Josh has not two nickels to rub together. He just got back from Alaska with an unpunched hack. That's true.

This is going somewhere else this weekend. These guys... And he's going to hunt wopities this weekend. In the land of enchantment. In New Mexico. You know why that's the case, right? Huh. Because I'm living right. It's because he's from Panguitch. Exactly. Exactly. The blessed land. Come on. Where the water's clean. All right, Paul. What can we do for you? Well, you know, seriously, I just... I got to know, why is Beaver County getting drugged through the mud on the Epic Outdoors podcast? Okay. Wow. I don't know if we want to... Where do we start? If he doesn't already know, can he even understand it if we tell him? No, they're not, though. They wouldn't be able to understand. That's the thing. Because he's part of the problem? Yes, exactly. That's why. They don't understand. The Marshall clan is part of the problem.

Don't shrink this down to our name. Let's stay with Beaver County here.

There's several names. Paul, have we said any... I just want to know this truthfully. Has there been anything said about Beaver County that is not true? That's what I want to know. No, look. I'm not going to go, though. I just want to know. Is it not true? Did it not make you smile and laugh and think about three instances that you know about every situation that Josh brought up? Three instances, two brothers and an uncle, at least. Just tell it. And your childhood. And an in-law. Yeah. Tell me I'm wrong. Whether it be a Bradshaw, Carter, Marshall, whoever. I just can't say that. That's to live with these people. It happens. I just can't generalize to the whole county on this. Your paycheck comes from these people. I see why you're stuttering. Yeah. Yeah. I got to be like... You need to be part of the solution. He's a homeboy. You need to be part of the solution. Not part of the problem.

Yeah, not part of the problem. So, I hear you've got a big buck found. Logan's been spilling the beans, maybe even sending out Onyx pens. Are you calling up? You're going to get me disowned if you keep going.

Logan's going to have to be adopted soon. Hey, did you know he had a birthday? Logan did have a birthday. Yeah. He says he's 24. We're not sure.

He is. He had to think about that. Yeah, he did. I went home and they'd forgotten what day my birthday was. So, they're like, happy birthday. So, you were born... Yesterday, tomorrow. You were born in 2000. Uh-huh. Wow. It's really easy to keep track. I said it every day just so I'd get it right. He had his bases covered.

He's got it. Paul, how do you like that? What did you call for? Paul ended up buying... But did you guys know Paul bought a full-size ZR2 Chevy half-ton? And it's next level, right? Paul, he has the lockers front and back, which I was impressed. Lockers front and back. Full-size truck having a locker in the front. Did they change that for 24s or what? Because they used to not do that. They did it. He showed me. It's next level. You're the one that talked me out of that, Jason. Because of that. And I took your word. Because they claimed ZR2, but they didn't have all the ZR2 fun stuff that the Colorado had. And so it was just, why get it? You know what I mean? But Paul's... And he's getting mileage like crazy. Like 19 miles a gallon. Right, Paul? Right. Well, I mean, plus or minus. Coming from Beaver County math. Right, Pollock? That's 15 to the exact same.

Let's call it 14 and a half miles a gallon. He's got a 6-2 gasser getting 20 miles a gallon. Not sure I believe it. Their math is, okay, let's see. A sow pig's got 13 nipples. So if you have 13 plus a regular old Holstein's got four. The average pig that litter... That's 17. Where's the other three? The average litter size is 11. How many teats are left over? Okay. Just because Circle Four Farms was basically originated in Beaver County. I don't know, Pollock, where you came up with. What's on your mind? Pollock needs therapy. Tap into your Freudian stuff about Josh's mind. What causes a guy... Would you say Pollock is sick and otherwise afflicted? Let's end this conversation. I'll just tell you. I'll tell you. I'm not even on a couch laying down. When I was in eighth grade, maybe a freshman, I took a trip to Circle Four Farms. And I'm not going to divulge what I saw and heard and smelled

and maybe even tasted there. But let's just say it's deep and it'll never be taken care of. Scarring. Yes. You haven't eaten bacon since that day. My next question... When does the clock start? Because you guys have obviously turned it tight in this conversation. Yeah. You guys are trying to get free consulting now. I agree with that, Paul. I'm on your side. And this is deep. I would say double time. You need to be doubly paid for this. This one's going to require some study. Unless you've seen a boar pig smoke a cigarette while wearing sunglasses. That did happen. Yeah. In a pig barn. It did happen. Explain. That's where my problems stem from. So I'll leave it at that. And that was after he did some things. It did happen. I remember that. That brings a new... Time out. What? That brings new meaning to the term smoke camp. Paul, you know that story, don't you? I don't. I can't.

No, no, no, no. No, no. Just things happen in pig barns to make other pigs. Let's just leave it at that. And then sunglasses and cigarettes were put in said boar's mouth. Okay. Well, you know what? Yeah. Me and a fine. Catch me outside. I don't know what to say. I'm without speech at this moment. Okay. All right, Paul. Is there anything we can do for you? I'm not sure why you called, but we can talk later. I just thought I'd call and say, hey, see what's up. Paul, we have a range finder that you might be interested in. It calculates everything. MOA, mills. You plug it in. It's a smart range finder. Bluetooth to your phone. Has an app. Everything for like way under $400. So I'm just saying, it's no joke. My kids got them last night. They've set them up. Ashley set it up. What are they, Jason? What are you telling us more? It's a range finder. It's a six power range finder. I don't know.

What? How about the word element? Element optic. Yeah. And it's awesome. Right, Paul? Yes. You tested it out. It's an element optic. It's new. It's new. But I'm just saying, Bronson's giving me a hard time because, well, A, Sean got one. It works. It matched my SIG perfectly. Pollock's been using it. Then Ashley's like, hey, I need one. She made me drive down to the office, snag another one. Made her pay for it, obviously, on the spot. And she's got it all squared away, too, with her rifle. So, anyway, I'm just saying, anybody that needs a smart range finder that doesn't want to pay crazy money, we've got them. We've got stacks of them. Right? There's a primary. There's a backup. Secondary. Tertiary. Whatever you want. Whatever you want. The first thing I noticed about them was the size. They're tiny. It's pretty. I have a SIG already. I have a SIG 2400. Oh.

And what happens when it craps the bed? Or Logan takes it and you don't have one. Or Logan takes it, drags it behind the four-wheeler. Or do you have your own, Logan? I bought my. You sold me my own. Okay. Do you have a new one? 8K? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But I like these elements. Something like that. It's a range fighter. It's better than yours because that 8K blows the 2400 away, and I have both. Yeah, Logan's is better than mine. Don't let him know that I said that, though, because he constantly is just throwing it out there that all his stuff is better than mine. It is. But we got to realize that 90% of his stuff is mine. 100%. All right, Paul. Anything else? Nothing else, guys. Have a good time. Appreciate you. You too. All right. Talk to you later. Okay. Bye-bye. What a derailed moment. Yeah, I was going to say. Good luck, Logan. Yeah. Where were we?

Let's do the element thing again because. Tell us more about it. It is. It is. It's a range finder. Six power. It's no joke. It takes care of everything just like any other smart range finder. This morning, Sean's ranging through the front windshield. Yeah, they're awesome. Which is what I touted, SIG was so awesome at. Yeah. It didn't really matter. Range through about anything. They're fast, too. I don't know if you noticed, I'm trying them next to that SIG as far as the speed of how fast it gets you your range back. Well, you had them. How many people? You were ranging vehicles driving 80 mile an hour on I-15 and crushing it. Yeah. Sending you back ranges. Yeah, at 1,000 yards. It hit like the box truck of a diesel and backed it to me at 1,000 yards. Why? It's going 65 miles an hour. So for just over three bills, everybody should be having one.

If you don't have one, you've kind of been looking at getting a smart range finder or something. They are next level. And what I like about them, you can make MOA work by using an app and putting a little sticky thing on the side of your stock or whatever. We all used to do that. Yeah. Those years are over. This one quickens it up. I mean, it just immediately. More precise. Yep. They still don't cost that much. Takes it into account. Element optics. Yeah. Angle, all your environmentals, and then also just spits out a number you dial and shoot. Or choose a reticle and shoot. If you've got reticles that are a certain MOA or whatever it is, whatever system you want. If you want to go back, it also has archery mode, Pollock. Yeah. Yeah. That's what's fast about it is it's got ballistics and then like a line of sight and then your angle compensated mode.

But it's just a push of a button really quick. So if you're going to be taking out your bow, you just push a button and it's in that. It's nothing. You have to change the app. It's literally, it's just so easy. Okay. So Element Optics, if you're interested, give us a holler. 435-263-0777. 435-263-0777. Or you can email optics at epicoutdoors.com. Optics at epicoutdoors.com. Moving right along. We're going to do a little bit of a giveaway, but maybe we want to announce that later. Or what do you think, Lovin? We can do it right now if you want. Okay. Go ahead. We're going to be giving away a Vortex Crossfire spotting scope, 12-36x50. It's a little mini spotting scope. I've been using the straight version of this spotting scope over the past year, and I loved it. For a very affordable spotting scope, it really gets the job done. It seems like you took it down on the Kaibab, too. I did.

Yeah, I took it on the Kaibab. It's perfect for window-mounted phone scoping, getting a closer look at stuff. Or if you're going on a longer backpacking trip. I really like to throw in your pack and get a better look at stuff. So if you want to win this Vortex Crossfire angled spotting scope, tag us with a grip and grin photo on Instagram. It has to be on your feed, not your story. Tag us in it. We'll share it on our story, and that's how you know your energy. I think grip and grins are somewhat interesting. Should we define that? Well, there's been companies that didn't think you should smile and thought it should be so serious. We're gathering meat, and it's not about the experience. It's not about having fun and joy and all of these things that kind of frustrated me. I think they should be grinning. So a grip and grin should be a grip, and I am freaking grinning.

I just had a good time. Yeah. I enjoyed this. This was a whole experience, plus we get the meat, plus that's part of the experience. Be proud of it. Like, smile. You know what I mean? So, right? We're talking about a grip and a grin. Yeah. From any year. Yep. Doesn't have to be from this year. A repost. Repost it from previous years. Tag us in your older photos, whatever. But as long as we share it on our story and you tag us in it, you'll get entered into this giveaway. All right. Yeah, I like it. So the Vortex Crossfire 12 to 36 power, 50 millimeter objective. It's an angled. If there's somebody out there that likes angled, there's not very many of you. No. I mean, maybe the lion's share. Only half the people here at the table. I would say more than half, usually. But, hey, whatever. Y'all, here you go. Fight over it. Something free, anyway. That's a significant giveaway. Yeah, it is.

Absolutely. Everybody, honestly, I think everybody should have a little small spotting scope like this of some kind. I've had one and I've loved using it. Just to have encased when you need to get up to 25, 30 power when your vitals don't have it. But you don't want to pack a whole big spotting scope or whatever. It's awesome to have it. Or something just in the truck, really quick, throw on the window mount, whatever. It's an awesome giveaway. Any optics you need whatsoever. All major brands. We sell it. We can order it. A lot of stuff we have in stock. We take pride in having stuff in stock. So, you need something or tripods, other items. Of course, you can go to epicoutdoors.com. Check it out. Look at our gear store on there. But, you know, if there's something you need, give us a holler. Again, 435-263-0777. We can get it out to you right away.

We realize we're right in the middle of hunting season. We do have guys in the office, guys and gals. But we've been gone a lot. September was a little empty in here. We covered that last podcast. Move right along. Well, I have some more questions here. We've got a page of questions now that the question reader guy's back. I never even listened to the last one you guys did. But with these, hopefully you behaved yourselves and answered correctly for Devin and I.

So. Why don't you ask some questions that you haven't been asked that are directed for you guys? Yeah, that you've skipped for the last four Q&A podcasts. Well, you guys. He's been good. We didn't skip any. That's the last page of questions we got. The front two pages were all taken care of. Yeah, they were all marked. I can verify that he did not skip one. Unless he crossed it off just to trick me and didn't ask any. Okay. Which, that's a Josh thing to do. I can see. No, let's plow through it. We, absolutely not. So, let's get going here.

This one. Hawk, Yote, Hunter. We'll just get this one out of the way. He says, you guys need more podcasts. I'm getting bored at work. We're trying. We know. That's what we're here for. Next question. How about a two-hour podcast? The last. Yeah, that was a grinder. Just barely posted. That's what I was referring to when Jason brought it up. It's like, it still stinks. I was not saying, let's move this podcast along because I'm bored. It's like, I have to relive the 22 days of hunting a deer and get my butt kicked. And like, you guys on the moose. I'm like, it's a scab. Yeah. Not like, hey, let's talk about something fun. It's like, oh, yeah. We have been gone for 21 days. Yeah. And only a few animals died compared to the tags that were ate. I can't think of a.

Who's killed an animal in the last 30 days? Raise your hand. I don't know.

Two out of seven. I may have hit a pigeon on my drive from New Mexico. So I'll raise my hand. So we know we've been gone. We appreciate it. Point well taken. We haven't been good at podcasts. It's always kind of that way this time of year. So we'll try and make up for it. Oh, let's see. Here's another one. 2C Hunt Consulting wants to know, are Monster Energy drinks bad for your health? Yes. 100%. Absolutely not. I've been off them for four months, and I felt like I've shaved 10 years off. Not my life. Not going to lie. I'm doing stuff I've never done before. Vertical jumps, never been higher. Haven't been winded in four months. We should go race in the parking lot at some point, all of us. It'll be fun. That's when bad stuff happens. It happened last time. After the season. Yeah. Yeah. Does anybody know how that guy's doing that was drinking only Monster Energy drinks, Dustin Witwer?

Well. He survived that. He survived that. He gave it up so fast and didn't talk about it. He looks like he's embalmed. That's all I'm going to say. Like dead man walking. Cannot be good for you. Not going to lie. I don't know. He does look a little older than he used to. Yep.

But I'm convinced that's the only way I get thiamine. It is true. Taurine. Ethrothraline. And all the bees. And you don't get that from anywhere else. So it's. I had to clip my fingernails today. Guaranteed it was because of the. There's too many vitamins. What was the last time you did it? Two days ago? Prenatal on steroids. Two days ago you clipped them again? You need a haircut. It's disgusting. Definitely need to slow down because it causes other things to grow. Need to be clipped.

All right. Keep going. So. Muley underscore 242 wants to know which Epic team member will be. Will buy the first Tesla Cybertruck.

If anybody admits that they're fired. Adam. I just said you. Because a part of it is. Carter. We don't have choices. Sometimes as a society they force you down certain roads. Really? Yeah. If we lived in California in 2035 you'd have to have one. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I mean. Even though we're not. Not going to happen. Honestly they say they're fast and powerful. They're snappy. So is a Hummer. Electric Hummer. Those things are legit. They make an electric Hummer? Oh yeah. Don't they have a couple of them? Crab walking stuff. LeBron does the commercial for them. No. I've never seen that. I've been gone for a minute. Snappy. So I missed some stuff. No. Nobody's going to. Wyatt. I think that's where he's at today. Wasn't he buying one today? I think that's where he's at. Wyatt's definitely the guy. I'd like to see proof of somebody hunting out of a Tesla Cybertruck.

If you have one and you're hunting out of it, send a selfie to us. We want to see it. I don't even know. Do they have like a trunk bed thing to put a dead animal? Do they have something that pops up? It's like a window shutter. You roll it up. Okay. You have to have something dead slid in there. I feel like if I owned one, I'd be too tempted to shoot it. What? Oh, because it's bulletproof. The windows and the stainless steel. They look bulletproof. Yeah, but wouldn't you want to like, I'm going to shoot this thing and see what happens. Moonlight as a Brink security truck hauling stuff around banks, around town, just for fun. I would want to shoot it at least once. But anyway, I think, I don't know who's going to have the first one. We're not proud of it for sure, right? But at some point you're forced if we keep going down these weird roads that, you know. Or what?

What if they don't make any more gasoline? Natural gas, man. Okay, Devin, you had leaks in epic proportions. Hey, speaking of which, my friend sent me a photo of that truck. Still out there on the road. It is? Looks the same as the day I sold it. It's still rolling out there. It's only been like six, eight months. No, it's been two years, man. Oh, okay. Oh, has it really? Yeah. Do you think he's using the natural gas side? Absolutely. Do you think in the winter it leaked like it always did for you? Absolutely. Just don't close that part too close to the bonfire.

You'll be fine. All right. Anyways. We're not buying electric vehicles yet here at Epic Outdoors. Probably be the last company that buys an electric vehicle. Move along.

All right. Let's see.

JM Castaneda 2 wants to know, what is you guys' go-to bullet for deer?

Oh.

A lot of stuff kills deer. I mean, but. This is a lot. This debate is not a good one to go down. Really? It's all about shot placement. How about that? Well, that kind of covers it. But like these ELDXs for a fast gun have been, tend to blow up, but they've been performing really good in a couple of my guns. Amazing. At distance. At distance and with just a slower muzzle velocity. Yes. 27 to 2900 feet a second or something. They've been just fine, right? And they've got a lead core. They're just not bonded like an Acubon. We all, I would say, I don't know how many here at the table, but we love Acubons. Yeah. You know, if we can choose. Yeah. But then sometimes like we've been buying Bronson, we've been buying some of this Hornady ! Built ammo for a couple of our guns and it's performed very well. And it's actually done pretty good on the game. Shot a lot of stuff. You shot an elk.

Your daughter shot an elk. Yeah. I mean, just, I haven't had any problems with it, but none of my guns are going 31 plus or anything like that. They're all 28 to 29 ish. The faster, hotter ones tend to, we're hearing controversial reports on that ELDX on a fast moving mullet. Right. Just like with the burger. Yeah. And I think people, I've had a problem with burgers from the beginning of time, but then there's a lot of people who are going to email me and just don't email me. I have a rifle. That have killed every animal they've ever shot. I own a rifle that shoots burgers and it's absolutely torched everything I've ever shot with it. Because it's just slow enough. Slow enough. It's the perfect mix, but I shoot an Acubon and Barnes. And you would choose an Acubon. Yes. Do some crazy things to make a rifle shoot an Acubon. Yeah. Like what? Buy new. Custom.

Good. Crazy things.

160 Acubon. That's what you're shooting, right? That's what I'm shooting. Yeah. In some of my 7 PRCs. Also, 7 PRCs using a 160 Acubon with a Wazoo hand load. Another one's using the ELDX from Hornady in the box ammo. 175. Yeah. A 175 Bronson. That's what you're shooting too. Yeah. And you have 6.5s. Tons of them. I've killed so many things with those. And clients, sheep, mountain goats. I mean, nothing's ever gotten away in probably eight years. Yeah. It's hard to see. I think that first one I got, was it about eight years ago? That little one I got? Yeah. I mean, I've, I don't know how many things those have killed. And then I've got two or three cents. And I'll shoot the 143. And they all love it. And shoot great. And they kill stuff. I don't hunt elk with them. 6.5. I just, I don't, I'm out with a rifle very much, personally. I just need a bow hunt.

I went and sighted in, I went and sighted in the Mountain Reaper 6.5 PRC just barely. And I was shooting out of the box. Heeled the XS. The fierce. The fierce. And it shot, like you guys saw the target. Like, it, what, how tight was that group, Devin? Like, it's 725 yards. It was under, it was under. It was tight. Do you remember what your velocity was? Because I've got the exact same gun. Well, okay, so it's an 18-inch barrel. Yeah. Devin. John's was longer. This is, yeah, this is the 7. The Chas. John's is 7 with a 20. Yeah. Mine's a 6.5 PRC with an 18. Yep. And a foldable stock. But it, but this was for. 28 or something, you think? Yeah, I think it was 27. I thought you said 27. 27 something. 25. Right here, I'll open up my app. Yeah. But part of it is, it's just a short barrel, right, Devin? I mean, that's what we've been talking about. And, yeah. That's a little bit of a unique.

Yeah, for the box says it should be 29 something. As far as your speed? Yeah. Yeah, that would be the cause of that. Most of them. And just, every barrel's different. But, yeah, shorter barrel, you'll lose some velocity. Yep. And so, here it is right here. Yeah, 27, 25. And so, it's, yeah, it's a little bit slow. But I want it in the truck all the time for. It's not a 1,000-yard gun, anyway. Have the energy. You know, it's not what those guns are for. You don't dial a .22-250 for coyotes. But I want to shoot coyotes at .500 plus. Heavier bullet. It might stiff buck the wind more than a .50 grain. Yep. It's ready to go. And it's fun to shoot. And you can dial for them. And it's going to get there. And so, anyway, it's just an all-around truck gun kind of thing. But you can still use a roundelope and deer and all these other things. Throw it in a backpack.

And it's, like, smaller than your tripod. See a lion. Smoke a lion now. Maybe you take it more often. Yeah. Because of the exact kind of way we got them. And then it also has the Arca Swiss built in. Basically, you can throw it in our tripod. Yeah. All the time. Anytime. You know, if you're in a water hole or you're just sitting glassing, you can throw it in a tripod. And I don't know. Anyway, it's kind of fun. So, Bronson, you've got to shoot yours still. John, have you shot yours? I'm going to take it out of the box. Do you want to sell it? Do you want to sell it? I'm so... You love it? Oh. Did you measure the length after you fold the stock? Yeah, I did. It was, like, 29 inches or something. Total length? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm just going from memory. It was quick this morning. I was just making sure it was going to... You mean which way? Folded or unfolded? Meet the spec. Folded.

Folded. Still 29. Yeah, it is. Well, I mean, because you've got an 18-inch barrel. So, only another 11 inches. It takes up action and part of the stock, you know? Yeah. And so, anyway. But just so small, though. If it's the smallest gun scabbard I have. Like, anyway. I was just blown away at the accuracy. I couldn't believe it. Four, five, six. Like, seven and a quarter is so tight. I mean, I'm just used to thinking long barrels. Well, no recoil. They're fun to shoot. Yeah, they're fun to shoot. Yeah. Fun to shoot. Anyway, and factory ammo. There's something to be said for factory ammo. Sometimes you just don't want to reload everything in life. Well, you've got four kids and you and three or four guns each. Well, it's like, and you and Ty and Holly. I mean, you're going to have how many? If you were reloading everything you ever shot. 22, 250, six, five, sevens, 30 cals. Remember?

You've got a 300 rum. You remember what Devin went through one winner when he tried to do that? Well, he had like tennis elbow. Yeah. For like two months, he could lift his arm. How many times did you plunge that freaking bullet seater? Listen, I had Glasser's elbow after a long, long month in Nevada. Then you started reloading .223 ammo that winter. Yes, and it started to happen on the other one. It didn't go full on. So I went and got a brace at Walmart and kept going. No, that was from glass and elbow. So this was, it started to come on and I quit. So anyway, I don't, sometimes you just don't want to hand load every freaking thing. It's true. Let's talk about the bullet again that you shot out of your 300 rum that just crushed everything last year. Yeah. It's a normal bond strike. It's basically an acubond. Yeah. It's a bonded, lead center. Yep. You know, anti-condor.

Right? It hurts these things. It's true. Cash, what do you shoot bullet-wise? This guy asked his favorite bullet. Bullet? Yeah. What do you prefer? I actually found some of those bond strikes in the 7PRC and I'm shooting those now. Do you? Are you? They shot good. What? I went to the range a week ago and it shot great. No kidding. So I'm shooting that. They're pretty brand new. Yeah, they're like brand new. You've been doing some load development, haven't you? I have, yeah. The last few years I have. I haven't done as much this last year as I did just because I don't have enough room really to do it. And so I just did some factory stuff this year and didn't bother with it. But up until this year. And you're happy. Yeah, happy enough. Like I could load it better than that, but it was sufficient. Yeah. That's out of a fierce, is it a rival? Yeah, a fierce rival. Yeah, a carbon rival.

Probably going to be able to see what it does to a bull elk here soon, hopefully. Hopefully. All right. Yep. Yes. What tag have you got again? Is the next one? It's a special tag. Oh, never mind. I told Justin when he was on the podcast, we don't talk about units. I'm like. No, it's in Colorado. Colorado first season elk. That was on the turn. He's the next one. Geez. Next one hunting. Well, what about Josh? I guess they're both hunting this weekend. How about that? Same days. We'll have a race to see who kills first. Yeah. Should we put a wager on it? Because I would bet against myself.

He just phrased it that way to get Josh to bait him. Yeah. Gotcha. I'll have to be careful. There are some places I can't kill one. Oh, that's true. That's true. It'll take you a little longer. Yeah. You have some limitations. I do too. Unbelievable.

All right. So anyway, there you have it. Big valley. Logan, what are you shooting? I just barely switched from a slower rifle to a faster one. I switched to the Varnes Vortix. Oh. And shoot 150 grain out of the 7 rem on that. That'll kill something. Yeah. No, I'm excited to use that. And then on my slower gun, I did use the Hornady factory ELDXs. Yeah. It got really good punch, but I shot a 308. So it was slow enough to make that work for me. Do you think there's anybody in the world that shoots the Spears or the A-frame? Hey, I was just going to say, I will say like shooting like a Winchester soft point or a Remington core lock. Yeah. I don't care. The core lock has killed more animals. Those things wound up to a ball of lead. They do. The core lock. You hit an elk with those 180 grain core lock. It's going down. In 1953, everybody used core lock, right? Soft.

I shot a lot of elk with like soft tip. Those Hornady interlocks and interbond hornadines. Remington ammo. Soft tip. You know. Whatever. You have to like, I would always go through the box and pick the ones that look the most like uniform.

Some of them. Yeah. Deformities. Don't want to shoot those, you know. Real deal. But they killed stuff. That's for sure. Jeez. Yep. Those have killed more animals than CWD and whatever else out there. Some other bad things. CWD and blue tongue combined. All right. What's next, Josh? All right. Some of these names. This is when you're skipping over the questions that are made for you. No. He's sifting. There may be some grammatical stuff here. And he just buys himself some time to reconfigure the question. Then he changes the name. This is for Jason. Oh, this is for Jason. We've got an antelope question here. There I was. I'll read it how it sounds. The top of a tree. Wisco Lumber wants to know, point creep keeps killing me. I'm about done with this racket. Okay. And that's fine. Here's what I have to say. And I'm not saying he doesn't have a valid point. For sure. I get point creep.

We all get frustrated. But I think what's interesting is a lot of people try to make the absolute maximum out of the points they have. And they can't understand the concept of you will probably not draw because you're basing your decision this year on last year's draw. Yeah. Assuming. Like if it took 13 last year, he says, well, I have 12. 50% with 13. I might get in with. I'm now going to have 13 after I come out of the draw this year, which they think they're going to have 13 going into the draw. And then they're matching it up with last year. You're just a point or two behind. All the time. And nobody's willing to say, it took 13. I have 15. I'm going to go for the 13. They say, I have 15. I'm going to go for a 15. Maybe a 16. I can squeak in. I get the most of those points.

And how many people with a lot of points we talk to, licensed sap clients and that, that we say, hey, if you're ready to go, you can go. Right? Yeah, you can go. And they're kind of hesitant. They go on the hunt. They have the time of their lives. And they say, I wish I'd have done this 10 years ago. I could have drawn. I could have went twice. You've had a lot of good reports this year. Yeah. A lot. And thank you to those people that are sending those in. And I appreciate it more than you know. But, yeah. Well, I had one today that was this exact thing. Yeah. And you worked with him. And, yeah, he was ready to go. And he went. Guess what? He had a time in his life. And I think that's what a lot of times Adam and I have talked a lot about is the points. You've saved up these points. And really what that allows you to do is go. You can draw. Now, maybe you're saving up for a specific unit.

And you're going to wait a bit. And you just acknowledge that. But a lot of guys are like, well, I've been saving up for 20 years. Well, what do you want to do? Because we can get you drawn this year. You can go. Would you like to go? Yeah. Well. I don't know. Is that a good unit? I mean, gee. The thing I see, too, sometimes is guys have, when they started applying 20 years ago for that unit that they want to hunt today, those things, and they're not going to go get the hunt that they wanted what it was 20 years ago. It's changed much. So you could actually get a, I don't know, I guess it's trying to. So, for example, you're trying to maximize the points for quality that was in Colorado 10 years ago. Yes, exactly. And now you're going to have a Colorado experience of 2024. Yes. So, and you can go have the same experience on a 20-point unit as you could an eight. Just back then. Yes. Yeah.

Eight points back then bought you something. Yes. And so just know you're, yeah, a lot of guys are putting everything. They kind of have this expectation of, oh, it's taken me 20 years to get this. No. Yeah. And if you're talking about Utah or Nevada, we get it. There's nothing you can do to force the draw if you have mid, low point numbers in Utah, unless you're talking general. But other than that, yeah, it's hopeless, just like maybe elite tags are in Arizona and Nevada. But if we're talking, you know, Colorado, Wyoming, force it, make it happen. Don't be afraid to give a couple points away. It's not like money. I mean, it's not like you're overpaying for a vehicle by $4,000. You drew the tag, go hunting. It's not like it's, you didn't get your, quote, money's worth out of it. It's a lot of variables when it comes time to go do the hunts.

And more times than not, this day and age, especially like with Colorado deer, a lot of people are having comparable hunts with three to six point units. These guys are waiting 15 plus years on their hunts. That's just the truth right now. So. 100%. I agree with you 100%. I just feel like, I feel like, just be realistic. Like just, if you want to go, let go. You know what I mean? Don't worry about, don't worry about buying milk for double what it's worth. At least there's a gallon sitting there. Like if you, I don't know. You know what I mean? Like the milk analogy. How about gas in London, Nevada? Okay. How about gas? You know that. Are you going to complain about getting, no, you're thankful it's there. I got a free tank. I got a full tank of gas. Yes. You're grateful it's there. It's pumping. Your credit card went through. There's electricity to pump. That's right.

Like you're just grateful. I don't have to get a fiber out of the back of my truck and spill half of it, put it in my truck. You're just, you're not going to say, wow. That guy drive to Cali, isn't he? I mean, come on. You know what I mean? And so you're just grateful it's there. I think that's the, that's the kind of what. Unless you are dead set absolutely on hunting one unit, you're going to be waiting. Well, then fine. And wait. And no big deal. That's your decision. That's fine. Go somewhere else. It's fine. It sucks. But you got to wait. Yeah. Use some of these other things as opportunity hunts. Maybe it's a Wyoming general or something. Use your points up there while you're saving for Nevada. Fine. But if you have no other options, don't complain about the system if you're the one making the choices of not to draw.

If you understand the draw and you're choosing not to draw, you're choosing not to draw in a lot of cases. Not every case. Like Adam said. Sometimes you can't force the draw. But there's a lot of cases you're choosing not to draw. And the draw systems work. These point systems work. There's a lot of guys that, ah, do it. The system and this and that. They're general guys that don't save anything, use all their points all the time and complain that something takes 10 to 20 points. That's what these guys are. Because the system actually does work. We've got, I've got a lifetime of tags ahead of me because of the points that I've accumulated. And my kids actually have drawn Justin Drew a tag, killed 370 bull, off of seven points that he accumulated. That helped him. If he wouldn't have had any points, he would not have drawn. Okay. And he had an 11% draw.

Well, yeah, it's not great, but it's one in 10. Whatever. And so, anyway, I just think people make choices. And then they complain about the system. I don't think the system's all that broke. There is point creep. I sympathize with that. We don't like it. I want to hunt the strip more often. You know, I've never hunted the strip, actually. I would like to hunt the strip more. I don't even have a chance, I feel like. So I could say that that system's broken. That system's broken. I deserve a chance at the strip. But you've also taken easy draw tags, kibab archeries and stuff just to go hunting. Five times. In the last 20 years. Four times. Three times. Whatever it is. I made choices. And I'm good with it, right? I'm not saying the system's broke. So, anyway. I just think they're, like we've all talked about, maybe we're beating a dead horse.

Are we beating a dead mule right now or a horse or whatever? Nope. No. So there is one more question here that Austin Folkman asks. Do you see states continue with preference of bonus point systems or move to random? There's all kinds of committees addressing the issue of point creep across the West. It's on people's minds. I see some tweaking stuff. I do see there's some states like, I would say Colorado, when it comes to deer and elk tags, with them being, you know, yeah. The hybrid draws for residents only right now. But essentially they're preference only for deer and elk. Same thing with, like, Wyoming sheep and moose. Like, that system, they've already, you know, made it kind of a mess right now with what's going on to the 90-10 and eliminating random tags and eliminating dramatically the amount of maximum point tags for people to draw there.

Extending the weight and maybe making it, quote, impossible for you ever going to live long and forget one. But also not giving any random tags at all, period, for moose and sheep any given year, yet taking everybody's app fees and point fees is – System's broken, they know it. That can't – that's not – that needs to be fixed. So there's a few things like that. Who's to say that, you know, I can't say beyond that. I think the investment in some of these other states, like Nevada, Utah, Arizona, I just don't see them saying, hey, we're going straight random. I just don't see it. Who knows? Nevada's had some meetings, and they were trying to think about Cuban points and all of these things. That's not going – Limiting choices maybe. It's not even making it out of committee. The change is so hard on people, even if it stares them in the face that they need to do –

A couple little tweaks, going to two choices versus five in Nevada, that really forces people to choose what they would really – are willing to accept. A resident would stick around Reno if he lives in Reno, like, because that's where his family resides. That's what he's really going to accept versus saying, well, I'm going to go for the top three over on the eastern side of the state for deer, say a 24, 23, 22, 13, whatever, and then I'm going to follow it up with my home units that I'm willing to accept that are easier to draw. I just think it would change people's strategy, and that would change the odds. They can't do it. These residents can't do it. And we can't tell them they're going to listen to you and I. Same thing, a couple changes like Wyoming. If they just – like Arizona, when there's a one-tag unit for non-residents, it goes in the random draw.

They just tweaked a few things like that in Wyoming for sheep. And Moose, now I know by saying that, that that would now make units, say, one through five, and all that have a random sheep tag. And the people with max points are saying, that's a tag taken away from us. And, okay, I hear your side. But there's also – when you don't draw any tags except for a 26 or 27-point holder, there's no incentive for you to apply. There's no incentive for the state to pay. If you have the 27 points, you can't ignore the fact that the system's broke. No, that's right. Even if. I don't care who you are. Yep. And you're charging people $150 for points with zero. Not a .001 with zero chance. And not everybody's a member of a service like ours. So not everybody's educated on – and they're truly throwing money down the drain. How can a state feel good about it?

You're taking advantage of these guys in the current system. So I think there's – I mean, it sounds like we're frustrated. We're showing – we're talking about a few obvious ones. There's a few obvious changes that need to be changed. And even Colorado's addressing with committees some things that, you know, they think, well, how could this change? Maybe we need to limit non-residents. In fact, we did limit non-residents for the future on our account or archery elk or whatever. And, you know, to limit vehicles and participation and crowding and things like that. But I don't know. I think there's some squeaky wheels get, you know, get addressed. And there's – maybe there's perceived problems that aren't really that big of problems sometimes, I think, that, you know, they're looking at and whatnot. But whatever. Every state's different and gets to choose.

And, you know, we're the same thing here in Utah. We're constantly re-evaluating. Game and Fish is evaluating, listening to the public or, you know, all – you know, bazillion amount of opinions that there are here, right? What do you think, Josh? Do you think it's broken? No. I think one of the main things is a lot of people I talk to, too, they don't realize how the systems work. Make sure you know whether it's a preference point or bonus point. There's a lot of guys that really think there's a lot of states that they all work the same. And they don't realize that it's different, you know. Also, make sure you're aware of how that system is working and then try and maximize that if there's bonus points or, excuse me, if there's bonus tags or if it's all preference or that kind of thing.

Make sure you familiarize yourself with that and use the states that you feel like are going to work your advantage. And I know a guy – there's easy to complain. We know a guy that says, you know, I'm only going to draw three more times of this general tag in my lifetime, and I'm not okay with that. The next year he draws Dedicated Hunter, guarantees him three tags in three years. You know what I'm saying? Doesn't even take away from his general. And not even talking about that. So, like, there's a lot of complaining going on with a misrepresentation of what reality is. Yeah, exactly. And so then it falls on deaf ears. At some point you're like, okay, I'm not sure every – Whining doesn't have credibility at some point. Yeah, I'm not sure every angle – you're talking about some stuff that I know you know different. You're a smart guy. You've got – that's not true.

And so then you lose a little bit of faith in all the crying wolf that's going on, you know. And so then you're like, hey, what are you whining about? We actually got it pretty darn good. And so – and I think the states feel that way, and then we feel that way about the states. They misrepresent a few things. And so then there's a lot of – I hate the word misinformation. But there's just a lot of that that is slanted to the way people want you to think. So, yeah, I think, yeah, there's some point creep issues. There's a few injustices out there. And I think there's a few things that could be tweaked just a little bit and would go a long way. But good grief. I mean, you've seen how hard it is to make change. But being not fair isn't the reason why you should do that. You know what I mean? You hear a lot of guys say, oh, that's not fair.

Guys will want to go hunt a limited entry unit in Utah. And they'll say, well, it's just not fair. I might never get to hunt it once. Or I only get to hunt it once in my life. Well, the funny thing is there's a reason why that unit is the way it is, and it takes so long to draw. Because you're probably only going to get to hunt it once or whatever. There's no way that unit's going to stay the same as it is if you're going to draw it every three years. You know, they don't – That's why it's there. Yes, exactly. That's why you want it. Yes, and that's why it's so special because it takes you that long, and not everybody draws it every three years or whatever. People don't understand that, you know. So the experience that Devin's going to have this weekend is not a once-in-a-lifetime experience. No. It's going to be – No. You never know what that happens. Remains to BC.

He's talking about jump shooting bucks. I mean – I was? Well, we talked about that. Oh, yes. When you kick a buck up at 50 or 100 yards, it better really jump out at you. Yeah, I was telling Adam one of my favorite things is just walk these edges, and I like to throw rocks sometimes. Yeah. That might be illegal. I don't know. You mean harassing wildlife? Oh, yeah. I'm going to kill it if it's big enough. I throw a rock down there, and you hear the rock stop. Most of the time, there's nothing, and then every once in a while, you hear boom, boom, boom. Buck comes out the other side. I love that, man. A real big buck, though. Oh, as I told Adam. He holds tight. Mm-hmm. Yes. I've actually done this. Throwing a rock right next to the buck. No, hit the buck. And he doesn't move. And that's the only way you get him to move is hit him. Yeah. In Nevada, those big deer, dude. Oh.

You watch rocks bouncing over, and one of them gets him. They get up moving. So if you're a rock thrower, let's call it the Archibald throw.

Archibald arch. Just think about Archibald if you're tossing rocks. Hey, I hope someone rolls a rock down a nice, thick north facer this hunt. Jumps a buck. Smashes one out. Smashes a 32-inch. Send us the grip and grin. You'll be in it already. Yes, I'd love to see that. I love that. I don't know. I love it. Just because the surprise factor. The surprise factor. It's nice to know. And yeah, like what else are you going to do in the middle of the day before I sleep? Everything's known. Not everything's named. Yeah. It's not a planned attack every time. And then every once in a while, you're like, holy smokes, it worked. You know? I'm trying to think how many deer I've actually shot. I can think of one. Which one? It's years ago. It was, I was probably low 20s. But we weren't chucking rocks. We were literally walking brush draws that were sagebrush out, you know, east of Monticello.

Kicked his buck up. He's probably 23-inch, heavy four-point. Just crushed him, running away from him. But, you know, that's how you hunt out there. There's hardly any trees. But I can't think of another time, but I've thrown a lot of rocks, too. All of those hunts in Nevada with those little quakey patches. I know those guys in Southern Idaho, Northern Utah do this. Like, you know they're in there. The only one way to get them out, walk around. You don't have enough dudes there to push it? Well, if you've got younger brothers. Oh, I did that for my dad all the time. Pushers? Brushers. Brushers. I did that. We were used hard as kids. I mean, human. My uncles and them. I mean, they'd be laying up there. And, you know, you're too young to realize that when you're walking towards them, all the guns are pointed at you. In your direction. Right, right, your direction. Yeah.

Like, you're walking. They're all lined up. You start to see them. And you're like, oh, they're all pointed my way. My biggest fear was when my dad would clear a spot in the road. And you're, like, 10 years old. And he's, like, clearing a spot in the road. And you go down there and everybody huddles around. And he starts drawing a map. Okay, here's this drawing. You're going to do this. And I'm like, oh, I'm going to get lost forever. I'm like, I don't know what he's saying, but I'm acting like I do. Yeah. And he's telling me to walk down this certain ridge. Make a bunch of noise over here, Josh. We're all going to meet at this one tree. And I'm like. Trying to follow the dirt map that was scratched in the road. And when you get there, don't be lakes. Then we've got to hurry and go to the next straw. Quick. So get there quick. It's like your checkers or, you know, Chespees. Yeah.

Just putting you where you need to be. John, I have a question for you. I don't like these questions. Did you know that Utah's hunter orange law changed? No. Okay. What? No. And now I want to know. A, I wanted to know if you knew, and then we're going to enlighten you. And then I want to know what you're really going to do about it. If you're going to. Because there's so much activity on a general hunt, when the spike hunt. All of the hunts. We've chronicled some of John's challenges at times with neighboring hunters. That's right. He's been surrounded. He's been pointed at. Shot over. All of these things. But did you know that the hunter orange in Utah now only requires you to have one piece of hunter orange on? And it could be a hat. Just like Wyoming's law. Don't need a vest. If you don't want it. You don't need a vest. I think I'll stick with the vest and the hat.

I was thinking you were. That's where I was going with it. Is how many people in Utah are going to stick with the full head to toe suit? I mean, you feel a little vulnerable. I'm not going to lie. You've had guys point at you. Well, yeah. Deliberately. I don't know what he was doing, but literally. Literally. I have a video of a man getting down, prone, looking at me through his rifle scope. And he was angry. He had some angry tendencies. You knew this about him. You turned him in. Yeah. And you know what? I want to bring this up real quick. Kane County, whatever. Whoever the stars to be. Just called Kane County. Kane County. Kane County. I want to be more prosecutual. Prosecutor. Whoever you are who told me and emailed me there was a lack of evidence. You clearly didn't watch the video. But anyways, yes. That really was unnerving. Like, people do some dumb things. Yeah.

So, are you going to wear? How much hunter orange are you going to wear? Depends on where I'm at, I think. I don't know. There's some places you're at, you're like, man. You know. I just want to be a camel guy. I am teaching all these people that you can actually get here and like. Yeah. Which is fine. But if you're a pusher. Oh. You better be. Head to toe. Oranged up. I'm bringing. I'm going hunting tomorrow. With bull. And I've packed. I have an orange vest and a hat. What about shaps? You got some orange shaps. Hey, how about those guys that are coveralls? I have a beanie. Coveralls in Colorado. The guys in Colorado. They're. Arms, legs, everything. The Michelin man. You've got 3,000 cubic inches on. Yeah. But I. You wonder. Like, seriously. Like, who feels comfortable out there with just a hat on? Nah. Not in Colorado. I mean, in Wyoming, you feel fine. And it might be like.

I have a hat from the 70s I used to wear that's like. Got some camo. Albertsons. Remember Albertsons? Faded. There's some camo. Adam and I both worked at Albertsons. Yeah. Different times. Used to be a thing. Got it from Shane Erickson. Canab. Think big. I love that. Yeah. But I don't know if that's. I don't think that's enough. Yeah. Not. There's times where I've taken an extra vest and hung it. Like, if I'm going to sit somewhere. Hung it in the tree behind me. Especially if you're sitting over an elk. Like, you're gutting out your butt. Oh, yeah. I mean, you've got orange all around. You're packing him out on your back. I always put orange on the antlers. Yes. If I'm sitting, like, on a knob or whatever. As much as I hate orange. Hung it in the tree above me. Sometimes orange is your friend. Yes. Yeah. It definitely is. Cash, are you wearing a lot of orange?

In Utah, I would say, like Devin, that depends on where I'm at. But if I'm around the crowds, a vest and a hat. Mike. Logie Bear. That's how much we trust you. Logie Bear might not leave the truck. He might put orange all over the outside of the truck. I had one time. I was walking in on this one side of the bowl. And apparently there was a guy, a dad and his son on the other side of the bowl. Son was laying down over a rock. They thought I was a deer about to walk out into the open. What? And I come around from around this tree. And I just see the barrel probably 150 yards away. I just see these two dudes pointing a gun straight at me. And I go like this. And the dad grabs the barrel and rips it out of the son's hand. So I think orange saved my life that day. This is Beaver County, John. Yeah. I didn't tell you where I was at. We don't need to know. We didn't tell you where I was at.

When you were young, Logan, you didn't leave Beaver County. I was at Beaver County. And the kid probably had the rifle shoulder on his hip, too. He's just like watching you in the scope. Like, what are you doing? I knew the guy. I talked to him. He said, there was a deer right over there. We knew he was going to come out. You must have spooked him. And we just thought we could hear you. We thought you were him. So we mounted up. And he's like, he wasn't actually about to shoot me. They saw my orange. The safety wasn't on. But to me, to me, I walked around the corner about got shot in my mind. So I might be wearing the Michelin Man jumpsuit. Oh, 100%. Beaver County is a place to wear that. I don't think it hurts anything to wear orange. I really don't. I don't think it messes with you. No. I don't think it hurts anything to wear orange on her.

It bothers me a little bit on some of the muzzleloader hunts. I'm not going to lie. I've tested. When you're in Colorado, and you've got bow hunters sneaking all around you, and camo had to tell me. Yeah, that's a problem. And now they're the ones going to get shot by a muzzleloader. But I've tested it. It's happened. I've tested it. And you go them up over a ridge. And the deer see. Let's just say they don't see color. They see something really bright. And they lock on you immediately versus camo. They just don't lock on you. And I hate that. Yeah. So I'm going to try to limit my participation out there in high volume, high hunter densities. But I don't have choices. My kids are so excited to go this weekend. I don't have choices. Just don't get shot in the leg, man. I know. Could you imagine? I remember. And if it was an acubon, I mean,

I'm hoping for a burger or something just to blow up on the outside of my skin. I mean, if you're going to want to get shot, what bullet do you want to get shot by? You get peppered by a burger that hit a branch in front of you. Would you want a Barnes? It's going to be a perfect leaf. You don't want to blow out your femur. You're going to lose a leg. Guys, it don't matter what you get shot with. It doesn't matter what you get shot with. What about a burger? Huh? If you had to choose a bullet, I want a full metal jacket. Okay. Zip right through me, and I'll just keep holding it. I like it. I like it. I've been shot before. Squeeze me? Right there. Come on. Right there. What? By a ricochet at the range. Let's see your scar. Nine mil. I don't know. Right in your shoulder. Pistol? No. You're lying. It was a ricochet. But it did hit me. Off of metal? Off of silver? Were you standing back?

Yeah. Oh, I've had him. I was behind. It came back. Hit me right there, and I was like, whoa. It's a nine mil. I've had him ricochet. So I like to say I'm a big shot, but not technically, but kind of. That's kind of like saying there was a dead bear, and I put my arm in its mouth. I've been bent by a bear. Its teeth was on it. He had my arm in his head. It hit it clamped down. He was dead. I mean, we checked for a pulse, and he wouldn't blink, but my arm was in his mouth. If you don't have a scar, it didn't happen. I don't have a scar. It barely broke skin. Jeez. Well, that's... What was the question initially? The misinformation is amazing. I went so far past that. Coffee for orange. Orange. Oh, come on. It was Jason talking about orange. It was a bonus question. That's good for people to know. I mean, yeah. It's good for people to know. And it's okay. I don't know.

I'm one of those guys. I'm going to wear a hat, and I'm going to pray for good things. We're not leaving this life alive no matter what. That's true. John, if you get your brains blown out across the sagebrush... Is that better than cancer? Whatever. For three years? Way better than cancer. It's way better than a rough dose. It is. It's way better. A rough dose of cancer. The way I see it is... And I didn't even know this was happening, but you guys talked about this. I heard of people... The old law was you just have to wear it, so people wear it underneath their stuff. No. It had the word visible in there. Paul, you're our resident game warden. Was it? It said the word visible. Paul, you're our game warden. No, the old law? Well, I don't know how old we're going by. I don't know. Somebody was saying that. I don't know if that's true. No, the word visible was in there.

Well, that's good, because like... You can't have... You could be wearing long, John. My shirt was our freaking orange. I know where it started to be visible.

I mean... All right. Paul, what is... Jeez. All right. So, Marshall J. Dotson wants to know how to find big bucks and bulls with a 9-to-5 wife and little kids is a necessity right now. That's tough. I say there's a lot of species where the male is not present, like... And we're doing good. Like... Say it again. So, in other words... I am not following you. You're barking on this tree. You're comparing us to like a bachelor group of bulls, aren't you? Yeah. He's basically saying, leave your wife at home with the kids and take off. Like, there's certain times... Well, sometimes you're a hunter-gatherer. Yeah. You know? And if you're a traditional role where the gal stays at home and does her thing, right? Right? No. I mean... This is sketchy. I'm just gonna... We've got to run this podcast by Jana. I know.

I'm just gonna say there's a balance to everything, and then I'm gonna just listen to you guys. Wow. And I'll firmly admit, yes, when you are... My kids, John's, Jason's, our kids are grown. And it was a lot tougher 15, 20 years ago. There's no question. What was tougher? Tougher to feel like you could leave as much. And there's times you're like, you just knew that it was not in your best interest to take off again right after you just got home 48 hours ago. And it wasn't a, quote, once-in-a-lifetime hunt. Okay. All of my hunts are once-in-a-lifetime because you never know when you're gonna have them again. Right. But I wonder, like, I think part of that is, you know, every excuse in the world to take a kid or two, you know. Oh, yeah. But the women have challenges mentally. Meaning... What? Meaning... Meaning... Meaning... If you're the mom, do you dare let said child go out with dad?

What do you mean? Guns. Vehicles. Lack of seatbelts. Lack of car seats. But I don't know. I've never had that. I don't think you do, too. Like, I mean, I just took my adult daughter last week. And, I mean, I'm still earning. Riding fat cat motorcycles with no helmets. Okay. There are lines you can cross where their safety becomes... I mean, I sympathize with the women. I've got my favorite child in the world, which is favorite human ever, my firstborn, going out with dad. And dad's an idiot. He shoots at stuff. He does... Drives too fast on dirt roads, windy roads. That's it. Let's the kid drive. Let's the kid drive. He sits on his lap with an airbag two inches in front of his face. That's right. With the airbag. That's right. Going to rip his head off. If that airbag goes off, it's going to break his neck. You see your kid's face, though, when you do that? They love it. They're mad.

I learned how to drive on the way to the deer and elk. 100%. Yeah. But they didn't have airbags back then. Probably. It was a suburban. We had a really important rule when I was growing up. What's up? You just don't tell mom what you did out west with dad. But the first thing the kid does, they violate that rule. You know? It's not true. Just saying. We killed chickens up there on the mountain to survive. Remember the scout thing? They all told their moms. 100%. And we all got reprimanded. 100%. Right. Go down to that. Getting out handyman jacks. Kids are laying around. You know? There's just rattlesnakes. I don't know. 100 things. Guys, you know, do we have enough water in the cooler? I don't know. All the things that women are nervous about, they should be nervous about. So I would say take the kids as much as you can. You're going to go in the mornings and evenings.

But you've got to be a decent human. Provide for the family. There's some things. If you can take care of some of these things that dads are supposed to do, then maybe she can have it in her heart to let you go do a couple of fun things. I don't know. You sometimes have to overcompensate and there are times of year that don't matter. And keep it. You know what I mean? Keep a written log of good deeds. Well, just. I don't know. We talk about it in our office. Whenever somebody's going somewhere, we're like, oh, geez. Oh, never mind. I get it. The brownie point log. Yep. Good job. You do good things. It's March. Really? I don't know. You're going to the pink tea party. Wow. Yeah. I guess you just want to go to that kind of thing. Well, you know.

Unfortunately, those days are over. But I mean, there was a time. I mean, I don't know. Everybody's wives are different. But mine at certain times. And I think it was also Halloween falls at a very precarious time of the year. Deep into the hunting season. Towards the end of hunting season. Thanksgiving. But for some reason, some years, that Halloween felt like the line was in the sand. Like, it was more important than the kid's birthday that I made it back for Halloween. And I'm like, what? Well, and when you do make it back, it feels, it's kind of nice to walk around the neighborhood. It's a cherry evening. Beautiful evenings. But you know what I'm saying. And everybody's joking, laughing right now because they know exactly what I'm talking about. Like, is your kid going to miss you at Halloween? No. They just need a ride. You know, like, pick us up here, man.

We're going to go down this block and that block. And we need a ride here because we've got to go over to this side of town to get more candy. The only thing they care about is 14 pounds of chocolate. That's all they care about. You drive around town with your kid, they'll tell you every single house that has the full-size candy bars. They don't care that you haven't been there the last two. No. They don't care. Dads are minimized 100%. The value of a dad. During the night of Halloween. That's what I've been trying to tell you guys to start off with.

But you're also talking to the guy that's missed the last two Halloweens and the last two Thanksgivings. But, Pollock, I would say you're a great dad. You've been to every mountain bike race known to man. Well, I try. I try. I try. It goes back to balance. Do those. But the other time of year. Says a guy that doesn't have a kid yet. That's true. Yeah. I have a lot of good friends with kids. I'm an uncle to a lot of kids out there. Uncle Archie. Yeah. Yeah. I've got kids in crazy places. Yeah. But who says that's Uncle Arch? See me every once in a while. You know? All right. Here's an optics question for you. NL Pure 14s or EL ranges and why? I thought we answered this. I think we have a bunch. There's two different things. Yeah. They're completely separate. You need them both. You need them. I'll go with the Pures. Me. I'll do a Pures with the standalone. 14s only?

I'll do a Pure with an element. With a standalone rangefinder. With a standalone rangefinder and worst case scenario element. It doesn't matter. Just a standalone rangefinder and Pures. That's me. How about that? The answers? Yes. But people love, if you talk to Wyatt, bulls. They can't live without Devin, I think. 100%. EL ranges. If I had to choose one or the other, I would get an EL range. And you love the EL range. And I'm the opposite. I don't like a handhold. I'm too shaky or whatever. Yeah. And there is something to be said. I think an EL range would have fixed my problem in Colorado last year when I was trying to handhold. And I got a range of a tree versus a deer. You ever truly trust it? And we've had my kids messed. And you can, yeah, you just, you got 10 power. 10 power. Double halves. Yep. I acknowledge all that. Yep. But I still want the real glass.

The other 98% of the time I'm looking through it. And that is, when I say real glass, I want the best glass. The EL range is a little bulky, but there's good things about it. Yeah. Yeah. I can see the value on both sides. I think it's a personal preference, like the straight spotter guys, which is most everybody out there. Yeah. Or the angle guys, which is a limited thing. The other 75%. Yeah. All right. Go ahead. What's the next question? Man, we're cruising. Yeah, we're doing so good. Why are you picking and choosing stuff? Cash. I'm watching him. I'm not, I mean. Do you want to answer that one? What is it? Well, it's right in the middle, but okay. Favorite conservation group and why? Ducks Unlimited of New Mexico. Why? What do you mean? They chose his name. Isn't it obvious? They drew my name. Come on. Hey, I'm kind of a, I'm liking this Chuckers Wild group. There's a Chuckers Wild?

No. But there should be. Google that. I'm kind of into these Chuckers. Hey, did you know, I just want to say, Chuckers in Nevada, they came out with their news release. Guess what it said? You get their news releases? Oh, yeah. Most Chuckers in 20 to 30 years. Right now? This is the best Chucker year right now. I was talking to somebody today who was talking about the quail in Arizona. More than they've ever seen. And the Chucker here in Utah? More than we've ever seen. I've never seen Chucker like this. I haven't either. Hundreds of Chucker. Okay. So does that mean Chuckers Unlimited is your favorite organization? I've just got it on my mind. If there was, I'd donate to it. How can... The problem is, is you can't fix it. I say kill every Chucker you can because it doesn't matter next year. They're either here or they're not based off of weather conditions.

Freeze during the egg laying period or whatever. It does not matter. They come out of the ground. Yeah. Kill them all. It doesn't matter. Have a heyday with them things. The Devil Bird. All right. So past that, Bronson, you've got sheep. You've got MDF. You've got RMEF. I would say the sheep. You've got SFW. Sheep organizations. I mean, I have an affinity. I was president of Utah chapter. So I'd probably lean that way. I feel like, and this is really just touchy-feely, but it feels like sheep need more to keep them alive than everything else. And I know mule deer are suffering. I don't. So don't beat me to that punch. But I mean, sheep will not live without involvement. Human involvement. They won't. And they were born looking for a place to die. All of those things are true. You shoot them with any bullet you want. Anywhere you want. And they die. Pretty much. You look at them wrong.

You look at one with a bullet. They start coughing. You look at one wrong with a bullet in the pipe. Decide not to shoot it. Take it out. Take your bullet out of your gun and walk away. He's dead the next day, but from something else. Maybe it might be a raven.

I don't know. I don't know. I've just been too involved in that and the research and disease research and transplanting. And I think it's really easy. Just close to home. I like what you're saying there. I think it's really easy, too, to see the results. We have so many sheep units that have opened because of transplant work and things like that. And so where MDF, I can't tell you. I think there's a lot of habitat projects and things like that. But I don't see deer react to things that are happening from a conservation organization as fast. It's hard to quantify the results. Maybe it's dramatic, too. I can quantify the results of sheep. Yeah. And it's just close to home. I don't know. I would say. I know how MDF does a lot of good things. I don't know. I don't know that I personally have a favorite. I think I can see the results of sheep. And I like that. And I wish there's some things.

I do think there's some things we would all change about some of these organizations as far as where the monies are spent or maybe even how to get more of the money maybe out of the administration and onto the ground and all of these things. But it's so easy to say when you're not involved. There's so many more factors than we would ever know. The general public doesn't know. There's a lot of dollars that get spent that we never even hear about or see. And Josh, you and even your family sees the result using some of that money and are directly involved in receipts, chainings, things like that. Yeah, that's what I mean. Like I've got a brother that does habitat treatment stuff for the BLM. And yeah, a lot of those funds directly come right from that. We never even know that that's what's taking place or that money's being exchanged.

But it's really hard to quantify, well, we have an extra thousand deer permits because of this chaining that happened seven and a half years ago. You know what I mean? It's hard to quantify what the results are versus a giant. Wildfire. Yeah. You know, and did that get reseeded? And did it get reseeded when there was on a moisture year where the seed actually took? Like there's a hundred little things it's hard to quantify. It's just easier to say Ducks Unlimited of New Mexico. It's true. Or Chucker Kings. Well, they draw your name. Pershing County Chuckers or whatever that one is in Nevada. Or Wynn Wildlife and Habitat Improvement in Nevada. They've done a lot of good things. There's been a lot of good things. Well, I know. But a big job. We're pro-conservation and conservation groups. You know, there's a lot of people with some very aggressive opinions about some groups. But whatever.

We don't know everything. Unless you're intimately involved behind the scenes, you just don't know everything. And so it's hard for us to even say. Good, bad, or in between. I mean, I guess you could say MDF for me, but I feel like, because I love mule deer, but I just feel like there could be that group. Everybody hunts deer. Not everybody hunts sheep. Not everybody hunts chucker. Not everybody hunts waterfowl. Everybody hunts deer, it feels like. I feel like that should be the largest group. And it's not. So I'm like, man, how could we do better there? You know what I mean? How could MDF be the biggest where everybody rallies around MDF? I don't know the answer. And you'd have to quit your job and really engage to figure out how to fix that. And so that's not reality for me or you guys. And so whatever, you just support the best way you can. All right. All right.

Josh, do you have anything to add to that? Devin, do you have anything to add? No. We're kind of quiet. I think you made a good point with the deer. Like, if you put all the hunters in a pie, the deer section is going to be massive. Right? Or what people think about. Why is it not as big as Army F? Yes. That's a good question. A valid question. Yeah. Good point. That I'd never thought about before. You'd think it would just be giant. Giant. I mean, we've got CWD. We've got predators. We've got everything. Everything eats deer. They're just big rabbits. And they're sensitive. Everybody likes seeing deer, right? Let alone hunting them. I don't know. But anyway. Oh, Cash, you got anything on that? Amen. John. I think you've got to give and take. You've got to realize, like, a lot of volunteers are working for a lot of these organizations.

And sometimes you're not going to like everything they do. But some good stuff gets done. If they didn't exist, it would be worse off. It would be worse off. And I think, you know, if you get involved with one. Like, I'm partial to SFW because I got involved with the Highway 89 project and did signs and helped on some things. You know, that was a pretty awesome project. The fence? With the fencing and the underpasses. And, you know, things like that. And then, you know, maybe you don't agree with everything they do, but maybe 80% is good. And it got you out in the field working toward wildlife. Right. Free of charge. And it saved some of those projects. They saved thousands of deer. You talk about quantifying. Like, who knows how many deer that fence saved. But it was more than a lot. It was one of those projects you think about. It was more than a lot.

Like, I remember driving that road before it was there. More like a sheep project. Like, you feel like I can see it. Yes. And there would be, it was an absolute, like, end of October, 1st, November, that highway was littered with freaking dead deer. I mean, who knows how many per night. To the point you wish it would get. There would be more of those in more places, that kind of thing. Because you could see how effective it was. But there's other people who look at it and say, well, those are poncegant deer, and by the way, you know, those are overmanaged even to the point of wasting resource because it's a trophy herd. $35 per hundred is wasting bucks. Only helping 100 and something people. Well, that seems like a waste to me. There's deer that leave general season units that go there. Oh, yeah. They use those crossings. I get it.

And you're intimately aware of that because you're a part of the projects. You can see those and you can kind of quantify it because there's a number. Because there's a guy that drives around and picks up roadkill, and that number's less, you know. So, you say that money worked for this project. It worked. All right. I would say the one, who's the guy we talked to in Nevada that did all the, you know, 100 guzzlers or whatever. Eddie Pribble? Pribble. Yeah. That's pretty awesome, too. Significant. And it came from relatively a really small organization. Fraternity, Desert Bighorn, specifically. And I mean, they made a huge difference. Huge difference. Not just for Bighorn. Well, yeah. I don't know. I mean, there's big game guzzlers feeding all kinds of crazy stuff. Like, it's pretty fun to watch. But you're right. That's a great example of a lot being done with very little.

Localized groups. Not even a national group. Yeah, localized groups. Just organized. Organized efforts. Yeah. Help. Penguins Rotten Gun Club. I mean, the list goes on and off. Yeah. Yeah. The Elks. Who? What do they do? I thought that was like a secret club. That's my thought. Then I went to one once. What is it? I went to the Elks Club. What do they do? Your brother's very first concert. Yeah. I went to that, too. What do they do there? We sang and people danced. I sat in the corner and just kind of was participating. Did you fundraise for something? I don't know. But I went to the Elks Club. I don't know. Lions Club and Elk Club. They used to be. Were you the youngest guy there? Because it feels like it's a 16-older. Possibly.

Anyways. Who's the little hairy man in the corner? I've never seen him before.

Who let him in? They're rutting all the cows. Okay. All right. Let's move on. There we go again. We need to call Paul. There's a Freudian slip and there's some weird shiz going behind the scenes.

Kate and Mac would like to know, bumping a buck on purpose during the scouting season? Absolutely. You told the story about that. Yep. That's how I killed him. Why would you do that? I mis-wondered. What do you mean absolutely? What did you talk about that? When would you do it? When they're not killable? And you want them to change their pattern? No. No. When it was a buck that I know he wasn't going anywhere. You could bump him 45,000 times a year and he wasn't going to do anything. Even after he stripped velvet? Oh, yeah. Okay. He did the same area. You just did it because you liked to see the way he ran away bouncing? No. I just. No. Needed a backseat. Another Josh Pollock issue? I like the way. Escape route. I like the animal movement. To see his escape route. Oh. I remember that. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's what I killed him on because anyway, I had my dad on one. I was on the other.

He actually went to both of us and my dad didn't get a shot off. We do that again? He's toast. Okay. Yeah. Well, in general though, let's say is that. I'm talking not bumping. I wasn't chasing him or anything like that. Like I was glassing him all morning. He got down to where he was just about to bed and I stood up and he looked up on the ridge and was like, that's not right. And that's not a tree. Took off. Igor. Igor. Igor.

That's a six foot four big sucker right there. And so he just, he left at that point. So anyway. You look like the guy at B-dubs that messed with Wyatt. Yeah. I can tell you this. I bumped a buck once that one of the bigger deer I ever pursued probably and I never saw him again. I worry about that. So that's me personally. They try not to bump him and try to figure out and they kill him in their own pattern. But at some point, maybe a guy does bump him. I know it's Caden. They're hunting big deer up there in Idaho. He's a good kid, man. He's really, they're really hitting hard. But anyway, I think part of that, there's been some bucks been pretty elusive up there. And I think that's what happens on some of these general seasons. It's, you know, is your, you know, I don't know, Josh, on your specific situation over and over and over again.

I think generally speaking, you can do that through the archery until they strip their velvet. And then from like the Nevada experience, I don't know, Nevada deer are different. Maybe they're just hunted any and all ways and times and whatever. And they're just abused out there. But man, they do not like the light of day. I agree with you. I think it depends on what you're talking about. Like some of these high pressure deer. No way. Yeah, they don't put up with it. No. You bump a buck on one season, don't see him until the end of the next season possibly or ever again. Yeah. They just don't put up with it. So anyway. Hard for me to think of very many situations where I think I'm going to do this because it's going to benefit me. Just really hard for me. Josh is maybe the one because maybe he anticipated a bunch of people when the hunt actually started. Or I don't know.

I don't remember the reasons why you did it or just because you thought, you know, he's going to be in there thick before daylight. Did you do it because you couldn't kill him in his current pattern? Because he was getting into too thick of stuff before daylight. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Like that type of thing. Like, and there's maybe in Idaho or something, you're getting in. They're hitting the tree line too early. And you know, he's in there. And you're like, well, better blow him out of here. And maybe I get him on the other ridge where I can glass him up versus in there. I mean, maybe a situation like that versus just going to see a deadfall that's a thousand acres of, you know, north slope dark timber. I don't know. Just feels counterintuitive 95% of the time to me. I know we were hunting at desert this year with a friend of mine and it felt like they felt a little pressure.

We never laid eyes on it. Well, those deer, it feels like they can go a lot further than some mountain. They'll go miles. Oh. They'll change valleys. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, like you're flirting with. And they walk seven miles to water at 2 a.m. And then they're back seven miles to where they originally came from. That's what I mean. So like. Just, yeah. You're nervous about changing. We also saw some deer this year that would get bumped daily to the point that they didn't care anymore. Okay. Oh, yeah. Where are you going with this one? Is this the Poncecon? Yeah. Yeah. You get bumped daily to where you don't bump anymore. It was kind of a common, like, oh, vehicles. Oh, they're going to take my picture today. Yeah. Another. And then one summer day, they have sticks. Oh, God. Yeah. Oh, those are sharp sticks flying at us. I thought these were cameras.

They're mounted on a tripod. They're just going to glass. Oh, no. So Josh. That's a weapon. That's a weapon. The second guy must really want to pitch. How does it sound, Bronson? That second. That's quiet. Let's just say crossbows are loud. Yeah. How loud are they? You guys were hearing them. Who are you guys? Half mile? Or some of you guys? Quarter mile? Half mile. I wasn't there. Oh, yeah. Half mile. You could hear that crossbow going. Oh, yeah. We heard it. Anyway. Maybe a fletching was loose. I don't know. But it was whistling. So to answer his question, if you bump a buck morning and night all summer before the hunt, it might be a good thing. Hey, yeah. Maybe they're used to it. He's like, oh, boy. That's labor intensive. Given the daily, we call it the daily bomb. Yeah. And then when the hunt comes, just play for the bump. Yeah, exactly. I'm going to play the bump.

And then Josh is like, I'll get the bump bump. Yeah. The bump went to dad. The bump bump went to me. Yeah. And that deer's like, man, this second truck must really want a pitcher. It's driving rather aggressive. The next thing you know, you've got a narrow. I like the smell of diesel. Yeah. So, yeah. I'm just saying. That gray Ford Raptor. Wait. There's been two of these Raptors around here.

I don't know. All right. Let's move along. What do we got? We're killing it. We only got 14 questions left. I know. We're good. Best methods to help find upper age class bucks. Mitch Thacker. Glass, glass, glass. Be in the field. Got to be there. Got to be there. And if you're a 9 to 5, if you're leaving mom at home. Right, Josh? Yeah. The 5 to 100 ratio. Just be part of the 95. Yeah. Because the 5 are taken care of. They're taking care of the community. Right? Exactly. Somebody's there. You got neighbors? What do you mean? What can I give you? I would add one thing to this, and it would just be simply just believe. Okay. Be positive. Try to. You have to believe something's there. You got to believe. Don't worry. Be happy now. My thought would get weird. Get weird. Think outside the box. Get weird. Because there's not many mature bucks around these days.

You're not just going to go out where you saw a mature buck five years ago, three years ago, or the time you were with your dad, whatever. Like, they're not there. Because they're not there. Why aren't they there? Because they're just not there. We've a lot of things. Drought. Non-existent. Drought.

And so, yeah. Humans. Get weird. Do something that nobody else is doing. So, especially if you don't have a buck found. Yes. Yes. Go do some weird stuff. Who cares? Yeah. Screw somebody else. If you don't see anything, it's okay. Is that what we're talking about? What are you talking about? No. Just dress head to toe in orange. And start walk. Hey, there's... How many times... I'm going to throw this out. How many times, even this last year when I was hunting deer, or maybe you guys were, and it was hot, dry, normally by 8.30, 9, deer all on the trees. What's the tendency to do on a bow hunt from about 9 to about 4.30 or 5? Take a nap. Take a nap. Go back to camp. Shoot your bow. Eat. Blah, blah, blah. Okay? Back to work. And then all of a sudden, one day you're out there, and no weather's changed. It's not like it's overcast. It's not like, oh, they might stay out longer.

The bucks feed till 10 o'clock. Especially when there's a part of a moon. A significant part of a moon. I don't know why. They'll be up and down throughout the day. Or you watch a deer bed for the first time at 8.30 or 9, and you don't have a play. That's just his first bed. You don't have a play. Yeah. And then you sit there. You're baking all day. And at 1 in the afternoon, they feed for an hour in the open. And you realize, I know it's hard to glass for 16, 18 hours straight. Not possible, really. It's not possible. But that's what, talk about do something weird. All right, today, I'm going to stay here all dang day. I don't know. And all of a sudden, you pick up a buck, stretch, and he feeds in the open for 30, 45 minutes. You're in the money. Ben's in a perfect spot. You're in the money. And you're hunting, and nobody's around. I like that. Something weird like that.

Yeah, that's what I mean. The stuff that's not crazy thing. You have to hike the backcountry 10 miles and this and that and the other. Just be out there where nobody else is out there. Sometimes just being out there. Be somewhere where nobody else is at. I had a client once, and I've said this story, but I had a client that's like, so mad at me for coming back in the middle of the day. It's 90 degrees. Oh, yeah. And I'm like, he's like, what are we doing? I'm like, we are doing what every hunter in the world does. We chill out for a minute. It's 90 degrees. He's like, I want to hunt. And I'm like, fine, let's go. We got in the truck, and we just drove aimlessly, driving with my head out the window, doing the only thing I know what to do at 90 degree weather. And we found a giant buck track. Long story short, we smashed that buck that left that track. You did.

And it was because he forced me to think outside the box and get out and just burn gas. Now he's living here. Let's start glassing here tonight. He's living here. We glassed there. The next morning, we killed him. And it was just... There you go. I don't know why to do what you do. Just do what you're talking about. Eat a sandwich and go again, or take a nap and go again, or whatever. But just being out to doing something sometimes works. Yeah. And that was just a good lesson. I was young. And I was so... Oh, fine. I'm going to show this guy. Sure enough. We have a buck to go on. Two ten bucks. Yeah. It was before trail cams. You're not checking cameras in the middle of the day. You have nothing. What are you going to do? You're going to go flesh out some north facers and do a deer drive for a client that's paying good money on a lantern? No. You're going to hunt professionally.

We glass, stalk, and kill. It's predetermined, premeditated, whatever. And anyway, this was just kind of something different. Gave us a new location. Gave us a new plan. The new plan panned out. And there we were. Heroes. Kind of interesting. You know what I mean? Just being out there. I don't know. And it's not fun. It sucks. I mean, there's nothing better than when the sun's starting to rise. It's nice and cool. Opening morning. It's been a year since last time. You're like, some of those feelings are just the best in the world. You can't duplicate those. Those are times. They're easy to be out there. But, yeah, when it's hot and dry or when you're hungry and tired or whatever. So, Devin, when you're back at camp here this weekend, avoiding the onslaught, the pumpkin patch. The other thing, though. Just know that you need to be doing something different.

Well, the other thing that goes on, too, when you get in these rifle hunts. I've tried a lot of different things. You get in these rifle hunts and other people can mix it up. Oh, yeah. You know, you're no longer hunting you and the deer. No, you're hunting the crowds. You're hunting other people's deer that moved into your area. From the morning glass to the evening glass, there's new deer that's sometimes there. Well, and I swear sometimes, like, guiding hunts in high-pressure areas, at first light, those bucks are bedded. They let everybody drive by them. They see headlights. Then it calms down like it can't tell you how many pines. Pretty soon they flick their tail. Stand up. And they get up at 1 o'clock. And they start feeding. And they start feeding in the shadow or re-bed, and you smash them at 2 in the afternoon. Yeah. Exactly. I've done that many times. Yeah.

Just right place, right time. That's what my dad always said. You've got to be in the right place, right time. But camp. I hate those things. I know. But camp. Like, it's always hunting. That's why they say it's hunting and not killing. I hate that saying. You've got to love that sign in your office. And you put it in there, Logan. And I hate it. It's beautiful. That's why they say it's hunting and not killing. All right. Keep going. Save the date. Save the date. What other buttons you got? I don't know. What do they call those? They call them something nowadays. You ain't going to kill them from the couch. What did you say, David? Triggers. It's two adjacent. Triggers. Triggers. You ain't going to kill them from the couch. Watch me. Pull up something in a little game. Play a game. Kill some stuff on the game.

All right. Heath A. Thompson wants to know, how far do you see big desert mule deer move after stripping velvet?

Desert is the key word, I think. Yeah. A lot of times you have. Like what we were just talking about. You have summer and winter range all together. Like they'll shed. It's just summer and winter and all of that together. But then, Devin and Adam, you guys, we've all hunted the desert. Some desert areas still migrate. So, I don't know. Are they talking about that or are they talking about like. Arizona, you mean. Like Mojave. Southern Mojave. Or like say in the desert country of northeast Nevada, like you're getting a lot of influx from other areas too. You know, there's a lot of movement. Even though you wouldn't guess. There doesn't necessarily have to be movement. Let's answer it from the perspective. I'm guessing. Devin's silent. There's a lot of different types of deserts. That's the hard part. Let's answer it from the perspective that he's thinking.

Desert resident deer that live there and they're only hunting resident deer. They're probably not going far. Some of them may not go far. Some of them. They're not going far. A water might dry up here. Now they have to go over here. It has nothing to do with the velvet or time of year. They have to. They're not going far. I know like my buddy Jason Taylor smashed a big deer and where he killed it. That deer with rut, shed, summer, velvet, whatever. Same area. We hunted deer. We hunted deer. You and I. You killed one of them. Yeah. It just is kind of is what it is. Yeah. We've experienced that. So I would say that's what I like about the desert is they have to have water. I love that. You have a reset every two to three days. They're going to be back here. They have to, right? At some point. But then there's always water you don't know about. But deserts have more water than you think.

That's one thing I have learned. But in some places there's only one. Yeah, it's nice there's not big old beautiful streams at 11,000 feet in region G or H. You know what I mean? Like where they can water anywhere. But anyway, I would say it just depends. Is that what you're saying, Devin? Adam? Depends. Yeah, but I think if we answer it from that perspective of resident desert deer that are, I would say, yeah, they generally don't roam as far. Most of them I've pursued have been they shed, they rut, they summer, right there somewhere. Close. Beautiful thing. And that may not be what you've met. They're still freaking hard to find sometimes. And they're still hard to find. They can find shade in a crack of a little tiny rock, I mean, it feels like, or a janky bush. I mean, we've seen it a hundred times.

Yep. Shade you wouldn't call shade. Yeah. Hunt the shadows you wouldn't call shade. Yeah. How about that? Hey, there's a new saying. Somebody's going to like it. What? Hunt the shadows you wouldn't call shade.

I don't know. All right. Keep going.

And Bryant 76 says, thoughts on the Sig Zulu 6 stabilizing vinyls, and we're the best rifle scope under 2K in your opinion. Okay. So by the way, Pollock, you've had some reports on the Sig Zulu vinyls. Yeah. We actually have a pair coming. They just came out with a new pro version of those. They literally just became in stock over the last week. We have a pair of 18s that are coming here we're going to mess around with. But we've heard the reports are next level. Yeah. The guy said he was out hunting them, using them, hand-holding. Yeah. Arizona Elk and said he was using them far, close. I've looked through them before. The pros? Just not the pros. No. The pros is new glass. Yeah. So they came out with just a pair. The pros. With just the Sig Zulu 6. Those were the ones we looked through. Yeah. And they were pretty impressive. Were they 15s or 18s? Power? 16. They were 16s. Yeah.

I want to say somewhere like that. They were like a 16. Yeah. And it was pretty crazy to be looking, and you're shaking, flip the button, turn it on, and it was just like you were on a tripod. You know? There was a weird- Star Wars type stuff. A little bit of like a- A mirage. A gimbal-ish feel to it. You know? It was a slowed down image. Yeah. Like a gimbal. Like videography world. Yeah. You know when you look at a camera and it kind of goes like this to you? It's over my head. Anyway, it's image stabilizing. But anyway, the new pros came out in the 16 and the 18. Yeah. They've revamped some of that image stabilization stuff, and then also they've done better stuff with their glass. And yeah, I just talked to a guy because he was wanting a pair. He's hunting elk in Arizona. Yep. Yeah, hunting elk in Arizona. He said close was great. Far was great.

He says, I'm a Swarro guy through and through. Yep. And I love these. The new ones? Yeah. The new pros? Yeah. He said he'd go with these over anything because he was just hiking. Steady. He stopped. Turn it on. He wouldn't. He's like, I cut down time. I'd have to get out of my pack to get on a tripod. Put it on a tripod. A tripod and all that stuff. Also hunting big yellow school buses. Elk is different. Versus like a Mulder or Coosder or something like that. Yeah. I mean, I could see. I would still want a tripod, I imagine. I don't know. But we're going to. Yeah. But anyway, we have them. And they're actually affordable. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, we're talking way under two grand. Mm-hmm. Yep. So, anyway. Kind of interesting. So, they come in now, the Pro, I want to say it's a 14, a 16, and an 18.

So, we're going to have the 18s coming in because we kind of figure, you know, we generally put a 12 to 15, whatever, on a tripod. So, we thought maybe going with like an 18 to see how, you know. To me, why stabilize a 15 when we all have them and using them? You know, 14s, 15s, whatever you got. 18s. A little more magnification. I love, like, I like the thought of an 18 or a 20 power. I always, I know those Zeiss 20s always stick in my mind. They had those stabilized Zeiss 20s before their time, 20 years ago. Yeah. And they were like kind of a big deal, I guess. But truth be known, if we were to look through them right now, we'd probably go, huh, geez. You know. Yeah. Kind of like those doctors. Like, these are Coke bottles that everybody raved about. And basically, you couldn't kill an animal without a set of them. Yeah. You can't see nothing.

I mean, you're scratching the lens to try to get it clearer.

So, if you're looking for a pair of those, though, we can get them. They're currently, you know, in stock. We can get them for you. Okay. So, if you're looking for one of those, let us know. And as far as the best rifle scope under two, I don't know. It's hard to say. There's a lot, honestly. I mean, they're good options. Really good options. The Zeiss V4 lineup. Even all the V6s are going to be under two grand if you want to spend more and have a little bit different glass. But, you know, a bunch of the Leupold, high-end stuff, V5s, V6s. It always comes back to the purpose of the rifle. Yeah, exactly. If you're going ultra lightweight, the Swarovski Z5s are pretty hard to beat. Yeah, exactly. And I put that Z5 on that Mountain Reaper. And it's a 20-year-old sculpt. So, I mean, I'm not just saying. I'm just saying it's a 22-ouncer that is dialable. You know?

And I don't need 25 power on that one. Yeah. Not shooting over. Not shooting 1,000 yards with that gun. I don't think it would. I think it would be like cash. It wouldn't even leave a mark. I think we. I mean, it would be like getting a ricochet by a 9 mil. You shot the neck. Don't even have a scar. I mean, he's claiming he's a hero. But I'm just saying. I don't even think that would hurt anything. I think you put it in your bullet drop app. I think we did on mine. And I think it wasn't about 800 where we lose the energy. Yeah, I think around 850. Below 1,000. Yeah. Well, that adjustment's not going to go left. It won't reach that anyways. No. Well, some scopes, but most aren't. You're just not shooting that far with them. Okay. Anyway. Sitka Steve wants to know how you carry your rifles in your side-by-side to maximize protection for those optics.

Say it again. How do you carry your rifle in your side-by-side to maximize protection? Oh, in the side-by-side? I put mine in a soft case. I don't trust the plastic ones that go behind your head and rattle like crazy or on your side thing on your four-wheeler. Clint's got lots of stories about those. I won't ever forget them. The Oregon wagon tire desert. We had a rabid coyote going to eat us. And he couldn't kill it with a... I want to say it was a 30-06, but it was probably... But like 50 yards, he couldn't kill it. And I would love for Clint to tell that story again. I love that story. I love that story. Rabbit coyote. It was a rabbit. Any story that starts out, we had a rabbit coyote trying to kill us, I want to hear it. It was a rabbit... Oh, here. Let's just call him. It just... I do... I try to keep it against me and if I have another person, just kind of wedge.

But I use a soft case and I have it right next to me. Yeah. I'm with Adam. And pin it with maybe your seat belt if you have to. It's just... And those soft cases you're talking about, I like the ones that kind of have a very rigid plastic in the middle. Like it's... Or leather on parts. Yeah. Like they're not a cheap one, but like a big plastic one, they rattle. They just don't sit. That are attached. Yeah. Or even... You know what he had? It was attached to his four-wheeler and it just went like this. Well, I bought one of those for a while. For 30 miles. I rode with one of those on a Honda Rancher once 20 years ago. Yeah. And I looked at that and I'm like, I'll never put my gun in that thing again. No. It's just... No. Yes. And back then they didn't have side by side and so it was the quad. You have a bottle shock in the back.

What I did with the quad, I would take a plastic gun case like you would take on an airline or whatever. Not as... Cinch it to the rack. Crazy as that one, but like a factory. Like the ones that would come from a gun dealer or a factory, right? It's just a nice, very UPS friendly. And then throw it on the front rack and... Either that or ratchet it to it. Yeah. Ratchet it and then throw my pack on top of that. And I know you can't road hunt with that as easy. Everybody is wound up about that. Yeah. You are not going to grab that gun really fast. But I do. I actually killed a New Mexico bull, 380s bull. So it was hard getting it off the bike, but I did it and ran him down, killing. All right. Well, anyway, are we done with that? Kind of? Oh, yeah. What do you do? Anything else? What do you do with your side and side? I just saw a soft case. Soft. Yeah.

But not the softest case of the world. There's a definition of a kind of a soft case that's rigid of sorts. I mean, I... Quick zipper and it's out. Yes. There's no buckles and... But I hold it, you know. We're not talking about this marsupial that you used up in Alaska that basically just had an end for the muzzle. You're talking about... I've had it, but it's short rides. But if it's something like an all day in it or whatever, yeah, I just put it in a case to protect it. I take care of my gun. I know that. But I hold it. I don't just throw it in the back. I do that same thing. Soft case, but then I have those like... What are those? They're not bungees. They're like metal rubberized cords to... Oh, yeah. And I tie the butt of the... Yeah. Back up to your seat belt or something. So that it's not like... Floppy. If I hit a big wash or something, it can't go flying across or whatever.

It can't move. It can just... Yeah. Everybody has their own system. I even put a bow in a bow case and throw it back to my side. Yeah. I mean, I'm talking a hard bow case. But anyway, I just want to... Just because... Let's just see if he answers. Man, we abuse him. Well... He's got stories. I just want to know about if you've ever had a rabid coyote coming at you and you couldn't get it killed. I just want to know that story. How's it going, Clint? I told you this story. But maybe not on a hot podcast. We're talking about the value of gun cases attached to four-wheelers or how you would pack a gun on a side-by-side or a four-wheeler.

I've got opinions about this one. Yeah, we do. Okay. Because you about couldn't protect... I do not like the... You about couldn't protect me.

It was... The Oregon wagon tire desert. Yep. That was a long time ago. And how rabid is rabid? Jason talking about foam and stuff. He... I don't know if I saw any drool, but he was pretty scraggly looking. Did he not come walking toward us with every round? Yeah. He was like walking towards us. He was like... It's like... 75 yards out and closing. Yeah. And I can't even scare him. You know? With what was it, Clint? A 300 win mag? Oh, I think... Is it a 300 win mag or... 30 out and 6. It could be a 25 out and 6. It could be a 25 out and 6. 270.

Whatever it was, I had a scabbard on my four-wheeler. One of them like mountable scabbards that you put in there. Copeland type thing. Yeah. Had like a thousand vibrations per minute. Oh, well, and we were... Okay, so I think I spent almost the most of every day dragging around... I think we built a little drag with like some... Okay, that was to check tracks on water holes. Yeah. We were dragging out water holes. There was no trail cameras in this era of our life. You dragged chain link fence around ponds? We drugged the ponds, every pond. Yeah. Well, the ground was so hard. The ground was so hard. We'd take your four-wheeler and you just tear through the edges of it and kind of try to stir up some dust. Then you go and drag like old T-posts through it behind you and try to smooth it out. The camp trailer I took will never be the same.

Okay, so that camp trailer, whoever has it now, I feel bad for you, but it's the salt flat type dust. White. Oh. White dust. Clint, do you remember? Yeah, that's gross. That stuff gets in your zippers on a pack, it'll never be the same. This is the same trip Clint misjudged how dry the pond was. And buried this bike. Yeah, I've got him too. Buried this bike, his four-wheeler, and he's out in the middle. And we had to pull it out. Anyway, winch it out. But anyway, okay, talk about this rabid coyote because it was significant. It's scarring, slightly scarring. Who knows how many days. Rattle on my scope. I thought you were going to say who knows how many rounds. Because there was a lot, Clint. There was a whole bunch of brass in there. I had to stop because I worried that if I actually got my gun sighted back in again, I wouldn't have any shells left to shoot an actual deer when we saw one.

Seriously, we never killed this guy up.

Wow. I love that. Clint shot and shot and shot and shot. Instead of RPMs, I love the VPMs terminology. Vibrations per minute. Thousands, Clint. I think at the end, I think I just gave up and I put my gun away. And I think I decided I was going to try and run him over. I think that's about what it came down to. He did, and Clint took off after him, and couldn't get him run over. That coyote lived until he died. Spread the rabies around. All right, Clint, you got anything else to add? Protect your gun. I guess that's the rule of thumb. Yeah, I don't like the scabbards. I rattled around. If you could figure out a way to pack that in there with a bunch of super, more than just that little thin stuff. You guys don't use it. Pack them in there. There's a reason why those, like you don't even already see them anymore. No. Yeah, that's why. Colpin used to make. I had put one on my forwarder.

I used it once, Clint, and I watched my gun. I was so worried about it, and I never put it in again. Yeah. So I even get, so I'll get them pretty, you know, Colorado, I still have to, you know, you have to keep it in a case in Colorado. Yeah. And so even there, I get kind of nervous. I, you know, I get it into the fully enclosed case on there, and I kind of like to sometimes have a coat or something underneath it before I stick it onto the rack too. So. I think scope manufacturers subsidized those companies that made those. Because they were the best sellers of new scopes out there. I mean, geez. They owned each other. Oh. They were in cahoots. Even the idling of the bike. I remember my dad had to sit there and rattle like that. Oh. Just rattle to death. I think when we, how far off was it when we went into shitting? It was feet. It was like feet in 50 yards.

I want to say it was a sheet of plywood. Yeah. And I don't even know scopes, it had to be a one-inch tube back then. It did not even have enough, it did not even have enough adjustability to get it back on track. How was that? False. Guaranteed it didn't. Guaranteed it was broke out. It broke out the reticle. Guaranteed.

It wasn't that funny. Clint was so hot. It wasn't that funny. I mean, it was impossible. Well, every coyote gets away that's coming at you at 100 to 50 yards. 75 and closing. You know, I've missed a few deer in my day, but I think I'm, I remember the coyotes that I've missed more than the deer that I've missed. Yeah. It really just bothers me. I don't know. Bothers you. You can't sleep at night after you've missed one like that. I shot one the other day. It was a big deal. It was the best day of my life. I can't, I can't remember a better day. It was unbelievable. Every coyote day is a great day. Hey, a coyote at 750 yards is like, oh. You won, you won a gold medal. How about 830, Pollock? Yeah. Who's your daddy? That's awesome. That was with my 30 nozzler. Red Rock. Huh? Yeah. How about that one of 50 yards off the cow carcass? Okay. And that was an amazing shot because. Was it hip shot?

It was just a little edgy. That reminds me. I was just making sure Josh was not a current gamey. How about in Alaska, Tate's story about he killed a wolf with a pistol at 115, 120 yards. What kind of pistol? It was a 10 mil. Yes. Open sight. They were coming back to camp, he told me. This is Tate. What's his last name? Shout out to Tate. He probably doesn't want to. We should have been calling his last name. Let's keep him anonymous. Okay. We'll call him Tate. We'll call this guy Tate. Maybe he had a barrel under four inches. He smoked this freaking wolf at like 150 yards with a 10 mil. Come on. And I said, you have to have a picture, right? And he's like, oh yeah. I'm like, that's a cool thing I've heard. Wow. Dumped it. Running? No kidding. You think running from him? Yeah. Just standing there. Turned along and popped.

I've got a story like that, but I can't share it. Back in my wilder days. All right, Clint. Do you have anything else to add for it? What's on your mind about big game and Western hunting right now? Anything? I don't want to put negativity on your podcast. Well, we've had a bit of that. I mean, we're all about positive. I mean, do you believe in point creep? Do you think the systems are broke? I mean, what else can you add? I don't think the systems are broke. And I do think that the systems are working, but there's just demand is out based supply to a point. And we're managing now for quantity rather than quality. We're just, you know, opportunity. Which conservation organization is your favorite?

I don't know if I'm really a fan of any conservation. I mean, I like them all. I mean, if they all try to do something for them. Okay. I'm just trying to. Ducks Unlimited? Yeah. There's, I get thinking, you know, I can, you know, I'm like, yeah, they're, if I was to write a check to one of them today, I don't know which one I'd write it to. Have you ever written a check for conservation? I've joined. I have joined. You know, I have paid my dues for, for finals. I've paid my dues before for Mule Deer Foundation. I paid my dues for SFW before. What could Mule Deer Foundation do to be bigger? Why aren't they bigger like Army of? I don't know. Why aren't there more Mule Deers than there are? I think they have the same problem. They just can't figure out what it is. All right. I've got enough out of you. All right. Talk to you later. Talk to you later, bye.

He's always good. He's good for a pickup, man. He's been abused, but we appreciate his input. This was going to be a short podcast. It's not. Where else are we at, Josh? I think we're done. Wasn't that the last one? Is there any of these that are fun? Light? No, not that one. What kind of frosting do you like on your birthday cake? No. Anything like that? Light and easy? Logan? Let's save these for another day. What? I think there's none left. There's nothing left, Jason. If there's one or two, pick it. Let's get done with it. Let's get some new questions. Should we throw a little shout out? New questions out there, anybody? Sure. Yeah, we can do another one on Instagram. We'll collect some new questions. Hit up Logie Bear. DM Epic Hunts. Epic underscore hunts. And let's get a new round of questions that we'll answer over the course of the next month or two.

And a little shout out to Outdoor Edge Knives. Awesome knives. We're partners with them. We appreciate them. Of course, we commissioned them to do an Outdoor Edge Epic Outdoors version. And we give that away once in a while on a membership drive. So we toggle between that and maybe even having the option at a headlamp and things like that. So to become an Epic Outdoors member for the first time, you could surely contact us. And we offer that. It's a great little great knife with three extra blades, razor type blades. Significance. We used it the other day on Justin's Bull. And then also use their headlamps on a regular basis. Awesome headlamp that we're proud of. Anyway, we appreciate Outdoor Edge. Another shout out. I want to give it out to PhoneScope. Great partners of ours here at Epic Outdoors.

Might want to check out the Carbon Pro Series, the MagSafe Ready accessories and all that that go with it. We did a podcast on this. I forget. It was last spring or summer. Something like that. Number 300. What was that? That's right. Okay. Easy to remember. Okay. Perfect. Yeah, I remember we were kind of bummed. Like, come on, Justin. You got our 300th podcast. How does Justin get our 300th podcast? Sure enough. Hey, he's worth it. We love it. I'm glad to do it. He's from Beaver County. Yeah. The best county known to man. I couldn't imagine a better person to give it to from Beaver County. Perfect. Right, Pollock? Didn't go to a pangy. Straight up Beaver County. Pangy.

If I remember correctly, his father was a superintendent at Garfield County School District over there. So, therefore, we straightened him out. Sent him back. Couldn't get out of there fast enough. Wow. You're not going to be him. You can't be, Pollock. Anyway. He lays awake at night. New Carbon Pro Series. Check it out. You can listen to more about it with Chester and his crew on the podcast number 300, apparently. Or check him out at phonescope.com. That's spelled P-H-O-N-E-S-K. S-K-O-P-E.com. Phonescope with a K. Sure appreciate Chester and the boys. Good work, fellas. Great products. Thanks. All right. Well, we can't end the podcast without a word from the Donald. All right, folks. Buckle up because this is big. Let's talk about the Epic Outdoors License Application Service. It's not just good. It's perfect. Perfect for anyone who wants to draw tags like a true champion.

You just sit back and let the pros handle the heavy lifting. Now, let's face it. When you do your own applications, you walk in a tightrope. If you haven't messed it up yet, believe me, you will. You're going to forget a deadline and lose all your points, then end up looking like a total loser. Or worse, you'll apply for a cow tag with your precious help points. That, my friends, is a disaster. When that happens, and trust me, well, you're going to be kicking yourself, wishing you'd go in with the Epic team. But you don't have to go down that road. They're here to save you from that nightmare. When you have the professionals at Epic Outdoors doing your applications, you'll be out there making deals, making money, living large while they're doing all the tedious stuff for you. You're going to be raking in so much cash, it'll be insane. You'll be almost as rich as me.

Almost, folks, nobody's as rich as me. Let's be honest, but you'll be close. When Epic Outdoors handles everything, the only thing you think about all year are those glorious draw results, not those annoying deadlines. No more stress. No more guesswork. It's going to be huge.

Let's face it. If your goal is to kill big stuff, you need to draw quality tags. Quality tags are typically hard to draw. To increase your odds of drawing good tags, you need to apply in multiple states. That's where an Epic Outdoors membership can help. For only $150 a year, you get access to our consultants, our online tools, and to Epic-approved outfitters and members-only optics discounts. With unlimited access to our team of consultants and access to the Epic Outdoors magazines, applying in multiple states is easy. No more worrying if you're applying for the best areas, no more applying for a unit where there has been a die-off, and no more missing opportunities where you could be in the field and not sitting at home. Go online at epicoutdoors.com or call us today at 435-263-0777 to find out how you can become a member today. Kuyu is the most uncompromising camo on the market.

Their new Guide Pro Series is the toughest, most comfortable camo you will ever own. Check out their new additions and shop men and women's camo now at Kuyu.com. That's K-U-I-U dot com. Kennetrek makes boots for every hunt. Whether you're hunting sheep in the high, rocky altitudes or low-crawling sagebrush for those desert muleys, Kennetrek has you covered. Check out their world-class Mountain Extreme line and their brand new Bridger High boots at Kennetrek.com. K-E-N-E-T-R-E-K dot com. Applying for tags in multiple western states can be time-consuming. At Epic Outdoors, we have you covered. Whether you want to expand your hunting portfolio or simply ensure that you never miss a deadline again, the Epic Outdoors licensed application service is exactly what you need. It's like having the best CPAs in the finance world do your taxes.

Let the best hunting application gurus in the world do your tag applications. You'll never miss a deadline, you'll never apply for the wrong unit, and you'll never apply for a unit that's having a die-off. Your time is valuable. We do the work. You draw the tags. Epic Outdoors licensed app. 435-263-0777. With Fierce Rifles, every detail matters. They are hands down one of the best rifle manufacturers in the industry, and they never seem to stop making new innovations. If you want to get serious about your long-range shooting, call us to talk over your options for your next Fierce Rifle.

Epic Outdoors is an official Fierce Rifle dealer. Our consultants know their whole line of rifles inside and out. 435-263-0777. Epic Optics is an authorized dealer for Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, Vortex, Leopold, Kawa, Sig Sauer, and more. Here at Epic Optics, we are committed to getting you the best deal for the glass that fits your needs. Go to epicoptics.com or call in to speak with our consultants, who will fit you with the perfect optics for your next hunt. 435-263-0777. If you're looking for your next hunting property, look no further than St. James. St. James are the experts at all sporting properties across the West. Their team of agents will spend the time getting to know you personally and find out which property out of the hundreds they have listed is perfect for you. If you've always wanted a property where you could hunt and fish,

go online to stjamesportingproperties.com or give them a call at 855-711-7577 to learn more. Red Rock Precision Rifles are at the pinnacle of custom rifles. They make no compromises in terms of quality, accuracy, and reliability. They will build the perfect rifle for you in both feel and performance. Epic Outdoors is an official Red Rock dealer. Call us to talk over your options for your next Red Rock rifle or go to redrockprecision.com to learn more. Vortex makes optics for every occasion. Whether you're a long-range shooter dialing in that perfect shot or an archery hunter in need of an easy-to-carry optic without sacrificing quality, Vortex has you covered. Head over to epicoptics.com or call us to learn more about your Vortex options today at 435-263-0777. From top-of-the-line hunting blinds to game calls that can't be beat,

GSM Outdoors has you covered for whatever outdoor equipment you need. For all of their products, head over to gsmoutdoors.com to learn more. Thompson Long Range has perfected the art of simple, affordable long-range shooting. If you don't want to calculate ballistics or adjust your turrets before making a shot, a Thompson Long Range system is for you. Simply range, place the hash mark for that distance on the animal, and pull the trigger. They make top-quality rifles and host a shooting school that will leave you confident in making shots out to 1,000 yards. Visit ThompsonLongRange.com to learn more about purchasing your next rifle or booking your next shooting school experience. The crew at Epic Outdoors trust Stealth Cam trail cameras to get us through the scouting season. Stealth Cam is the leading trail camera brand because they never stop innovating.

Check out their brand new line of trail cameras, including the Revolver 360-degree camera, at StealthCam.com. Epic Outdoors is an official Stealth Cam dealer. Call us to order yours today at 435-263-0777. Phone Scope changed the game with their digiscoping innovations and have remained the top phone-to-optic adapter on the market. Check out the incredible new Carbon Pro Phone Scope now at PhoneScope.com. P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P-E dot com. Outdoor Edge is the knife that we all use here at Epic Outdoors. Whether it's a replaceable blade or fixed blade, you will not be disappointed with your Outdoor Edge knife. Head over to OutdoorEdge.com and check out their brand new Razer VX knife today. Epic Outdoors is proud to be an official Zeiss dealer and optics partner. When it comes to top-tier quality, Zeiss has been a leader in the industry for generations.

If you're in the market for new optics, give us a call for unbelievable deals on Zeiss products, giving you the highest quality and durability out there without breaking the bank is what makes Zeiss so good. Check out our website, EpicOptics.com, or call us at 435-263-0777 to find out which Zeiss optic is perfect for you. Epic Outdoors is now an official CVA muzzleloader dealer. If you're in the market for a new muzzleloader, our staff can go over the different options that you should consider. CVA muzzleloaders are the go-to muzzleloader for Epic Outdoors and crew. We've definitely got our favorite setups for Western big game hunting in stock. Call us today at 435-263-0777 to find out which CVA is perfect for your next hunt.