EP 103: Desert Sheep Hunting in Arizona

A ram like this can pretty much command whatever authority he wants. That would be the number one Nelsonite taken in state of Arizona. We just kind of dissected the rest of the unit, Adam and I, and split up here and there. Anything to do with Western Big Game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter, as well as the Epic Outdoors crew. Been a long time since we've all been in the same room together in one sitting, one place. But here we are, it's at the end of the hunting season. We're back in the office, killing it. We've got Chris with us here, we've got John, Jeff, and Adam, and just got done hunting. So anyway, before we get started, we do want to thank Under Armour. Appreciate them and their support. Wore a lot of their stuff. Of course, they still have some inventory out there, don't they, Jeff? Yes, they do. Got some inventory out there, the Raider Pat and whatnot. We've had incredible reviews on a lot of that stuff. Of course, we don't work with any companies that suck. All of our guys are awesome. So I do want to appreciate them.

Let everybody know out there who supported Epic, whether it be in print and digital and everything else. We appreciate them, all of our advertisers. So anyway, as we get started, I guess we're going to, we just kind of wanted to recap. We got done sheep hunting. And you don't get a sheep hunt every day except for Adam. He gets to guide a lot of them and spends 90 days a year working with sheep and killing them. Of course, you know, there's a lot of conservation groups out there, Adam, that are putting them on the mountain and you're taking them off.

But we're paying to put them off.

Take one. The saying is take one, put one back. That's right. Give back. Give back. So anyway, well, let's start this off. Bronson, give us, start it off here. Well, we talked a little bit about sheep last week when everybody else was gone. John, Chris, and I were here. So we kind of had a Q&A podcast. But we alluded that we're heading south to the, that's not the sunshine state in Arizona. What is it? What is it? I don't know. Land of Enchantment? The cacti state. Let's just say the sharp, pokey state. Land of Enchantment from New Mexico.

I'm sure all of you Arizona folks out there are offended that we don't know your nickname. Burroughs. The Burroughs state, maybe. Were we hunted? There were burroughs everywhere. Oh, my gosh. But anyway, Arizona was nice. It was 10 degrees here. Grand Canyon. The Grand Canyon state. That's okay. Did Jeff just look it up? John, or Chris did. I like the cactus state better because, man. Burroughs, cactus. There were a lot of cactus. We had a lot of sharp, pokey things. But anyway, I had an awesome trip down there, Jason. You told me to talk, but it's your freaking tag. So why don't you say what you got, Jason? You drew a tag, or did you buy one? Yeah. I did pay the normal state tag fee, but I didn't buy no governor's tag. Yeah. So I did, of course, a lot of you guys out there are applying and gaining bonus points for sheep. And we'd been doing that for 20-plus years. I'd had 22 points.

One was a loyalty, and one was a hunter-ed point. So you got 20 years of applying and at least gaining points. And so that was back when I think you had to front the fees. 23 or 24 years old. I was writing credit card checks. I was brokering broke and writing credit card checks because they would take a personal check. And anyway, it finally paid off. Still drew in the random draw. It was still a lucky draw. There was nothing, no max points got that tag. And so they've been having one tag in this area. And of course, we've done a little bit of research, and we knew that nobody knew a lot about it, but there was a potential for a great ram. Only been hunted for maybe five or six years prior to this year. And so that's always intriguing and a lot of unknown, even from the biologists that we talked to. I mean, they can tell you the basics about it, where the sheep came from.

You know, but as far as distribution, they're not annually or even every three years flying this stuff. That's right. And that's what she said. Erin down there, it was a great resource, but even she says, you know, this is relatively, I'm going to be able to help you a little like on basic stuff, but not that they knew anything specific. They do have a guzzler in the unit, but none of the sheep are using it. There's a lot of other waters and different things with ranchers and other things going on. So anyway, it was kind of a, you know, Adam and I, we know like in here in our home state and Bronson, you can talk about this too, but we're going to get a sheep here in Utah. And I, and I got lucky and drew years ago. Of course, we all went on that hunt. What a great experience. John lost a little bit of gear, but well, he burned it up.

But anyway, he had a picture in one hand of mama and the kids and a match in the other hand and he made her out. So kind of a fun hunt. We should go into that. We should go into that someday. But anyway, it was one of those things where we know we're going to get our desert. We're going to be able to, you know, it's not about killing a sheep. We're going to get one in our home state and, and Adam, there's some units that, that Adam can draw right now. And so, you know, we know that's going to happen. It's just, but we, you would use an Arizona tag or use a Nevada tag to kill a special ram. Yeah. And that's, you'd already killed one. And so that's kind of the mode you were in. Yeah. But then when I got the tag and my dad killed a 176 big, what we, what I call a fister twister, big old freaking. Mexicana down south. Yeah. I'm like, and then I drew this tag and I'm like, what did I do?

They don't look like that. Cause these are Nelson and I, Nelson desert bighorn, Northern part of Arizona. I mean the Northern third. Yep. So, but yeah, you were a little bit that way, but then again, it's like any angle you can get to draw a non-resident desert sheep tag. When is, you're not supposed to turn those back, but I got to tell you, I thought about it cause I did point guard that thing and I, and I don't know why I gave him five bucks. Right. But you know what the wrath Bronson would have given me if I had turned back. He wouldn't have done it. I'd have broke his legs and he wouldn't have been able to drive to the office, but we went down roughly six days earlier. So we had Thanksgiving. So that was kind of, we had to get that finished off and then we had to get down, we had to take care of some of the office stuff here and then headed down there five or six days

before the hunt basically. Yeah. I headed like down, I think on a Wednesday and actually glassed up my ram that Wednesday. Bronson was coming in, I think Thursday. I came down that same day. And then we, oh, maybe later that day. You came down Tuesday. Okay. That's it. That's it. And then we blitzed it. So we videoed him, but we didn't know what we were looking at. And Bronson's like, well, he looks good. Probably. I don't know. Two miles and dropper, the deep dropper. Yeah. So the video was okay. But then, then we just kind of, we just kind of dissected the rest of the unit, Adam and I, and split up here and there and, and then came back. Saving this for basically the day before the hunt. Cause there was a bunch of sheep in a, in a Canyon. And we knew it'd pretty much be able to find them. Yeah. Barring something weird, a lion blows them all out or something weird.

We figured, all right, those are there. Big group of sheep. Let's, you know, and we did find other groups of sheep all throughout the unit. Yeah, we did. And Friday, we basically, you and I, you went and checked a group of sheep. I went back in to kind of look from a different spot here. And luckily we did because you couldn't have seen them from where you went to see them the first day. No, they had moved a little bit. So we, and this stuff's rugged country. It's not like, there's a lot of country like in Nevada and stuff, you can drive around and really access units. And it's what you call an easy sheep hunt. But, you know, and even in Arizona has a lot of that. But man, this particular unit, not that it was hard, it just wasn't. Can't drive around from side by side and glass at all. You're hiking an hour to a point and then you're glassing two miles away from there. Or four miles.

When I first picked these, I will say a little plug for. Swarovski. Those BTXs were amazing. It was four miles on my Onyx maps. Four miles, 4.06 from where I was sitting to that. And that was from BTXs. And then, of course, you know. Thank goodness for that going away shot that sheep give you. Yeah. Little white butts out there in the distance. Yeah, the white butts gave them away. Moved in on them and there's 35 sheep staring at you. So, it was kind of fun. Adam got a better look at him the night before the hunt. And we kind of knew he might. He was looking in some different country, but also right where that sheep was. And, of course, I want Adam. That's the one thing I want to express. There's a lot of you guys out there that may draw a tag and whatnot. But, you know, Adam, it's so much more comforting. Adam's put his hands on, what, 90 sheep maybe. I don't know, 60, 80, 90.

I lose track and he'll end up over 100 here in a year. And there's something to be said for being able to judge him. You know, I can find sheep and you can find sheep. But judging him and knowing what you're looking at. And I think that's part of, like, when you see our statistics in the magazine, of course, Epic, we cover all these units that non-residents can apply for and things. And you see the, and the stats help you. The stats help you. Like, oh, it's nice to know there's 15-inch base sheep there. But to actually know a 15 versus a 16 or a 15 versus a 14 or a 13 even. And there's beautiful sheep that are hitting 13s. How do you judge that when you don't put your hands on them? And that's what was nice when Adam, and, of course, I cornered him a couple of times close to the kill. And he doesn't want to make the final call. And nobody does.

There's not a sheep outfitter out there that's just going to start throwing out scores because they've all walked up on sheep that weren't quite what you think. And so, you know, he's wanting me to make the final call, but I want him to make the final call. I just kept saying, Adam, would you shoot this? Well, hell yeah, I'd shoot that. I told you that the night before that. For some reason, when we were, and Chris, we're going to have to listen to watch the kill video because it's all on video. But for some reason, whether it was the breeze or something, Jason couldn't hear. He had an earplug. And he couldn't hear me whispering, you know. Yeah, fast forward to opening morning. Well, yeah. So the night before, I had a great view of them. They're still a mile and a half or two miles away, but the sun's beating on them perfect.

And I got, you know, the video you bring home isn't as good as the look I got through my scope. Because it's not 3D. You can see around that horn in the scope. And when I saw it, and I'm like, oh, there's no question. Well, and this ram had a specific dark ring on his left side, which is weird. It was weird. Didn't have it on the other side. Didn't have it on the other side. So Adam's like, I've got the dark ring ram. And by the way, he's heavy as shiz. And I did say shiz, darling. In case my wife's listening to this, I did say shiz. And if Adam says he's heavy as shiz, I'm thinking, who am I to question that? Because, again, he's put his hands on so many sheep. And this ram, he had a different shape. Even the other sheep that are there. There's rams that were, that looked. I don't think they were much longer. They looked longer. But they looked. They were shallower curl.

And they came up and turned it up. This one is a deep, just a deep drop. And I call it kind of the hat. Picture a heart. And it goes high up off the head. And then dives more straight down versus a true circle. A true circle. Back. So high, back, and around. And then down. And he's never going to push it around. He's never going to be a fister twister. He's not. He's never going to look that way. He's not. And there's been else and I here in Nevada that they are. Occasionally they look like that. But there's a lot of them that are more circular, tighter curl. And they're coming up and they're a curl and a half. And they look 180 or 90 inches. And they're 165 or 75. They look retardly awesome. Yeah. And they have the look. And that was partly what you were talking about earlier. Not that you thought you had a bad tag.

But you thought, did I get the right tag for the look of sheep you thought you wanted in your life? And big. And, you know, that's one thing. Sheep can get there different ways. But the one thing on sheep that I always say, and you've got to know. You hit it on. You've got to know your basis. And it's unique to the species and the area. But if you're really heavy and you're a low dropper, I've never been, ever been unpleasantly surprised. Like, oh, crap, he's not as big as I thought. It's always the other way. And that rang true. And Adam and I, so we kept going back to the pictures of the last two sheep that were killed. And Adam and I are like, if that's 170, 71-incher, which they both are, and they both have 15-inch bases, what are we looking at? And they were young. What are we looking at? They were 5- or 6-year-old rams.

And they were low to mid-15s on the base, 15 and 2 to 4, I forget exactly. And I forget lengths, but maybe 33 to 5, you know. But they were more tipped. They weren't broomed at all yet, really. One of them's 5 years old. Yeah, and still 170. So, yeah, so that's what we were. We kept looking at that, which helps. Again, he knew this thing had so much more basal mass, but he packed it so much and he dropped so low. When you get a big open curl like that, a lot of times the visual perception is he's thinner than he really is. Because there's a big, if there's a tight fist and you just got a bunch of horn covering itself almost, you're like, yeah, he's so heavy. When really. He's 13 and a half based. Yeah. Who knows? Well, you can go back to the rams now. Remember the year you guys did the Nevada, the two rams together. You killed two rams in one unit. Those are 100% different look. Yeah.

This is the ideal. Yeah. Like, if you're really comparing two different rams, those two rams you guys killed in that unit in Nevada was the exact things you're talking about. You got a ram that's built more like yours, Jason, than when you killed. And then you got this. He was heavy, Adam. I mean, that sucker was six years old. And he was six. And he was 40, but low dropper and carried it. And the other one. And he added 182. And a half. Yeah. And then the other one was what we call the fister twister or whatever. 14 and a quarter and looked 190 in the pitchers. He looked 190 and he went 177 or something. But if you put them next to each other and you asked 95% of the guys and you said, which ram would you shoot? Which ram's going to score more? Or which one's bigger? 90% or more. Or higher. I don't know. Are going to pick the twister ram. And that's the one thing.

And they came from the same unit. They're the same subspecies. Yes. And that's what's funny. Even though we're down there, it was nice to look at sheep that had been taken. And like in contrast to deer, you would never say, well, I'm in Colorado. I need to look at some pictures of some deer that have been taken versus the deer that have been taken in Utah. You know when you see a big one. Yeah. You don't have to ask anybody. Unless you're in a weird desert unit where they have tiny bodies or something. You want to know stuff like that. Like southern Nevada or southern Arizona. And I've noticed with you, Adam, on a few of the times that I've been with you, and even like my sheep in Utah, you'll take a – I mean, you're not quick to jump to conclusions. You're going to look at him for a while before you decide what you think of his mass. You're going to look at him from the head on.

The head on, you can a lot of times see the base as the best head on. Yeah. But then the midway point to the end, you see it from behind. But a lot of times behind, they look better than they are. They all look massive. And it depends – you judge body size. Your ram in Arizona had a big body. We could tell that in relation to all the other rams. His body was retarded. You could see that. He was a stocky, big old stud. So these desert sheep, you're talking about a 200-pound animal. You get one that's 150 and has horns that look like they're giant, may just be because he's on a smaller body. Well, and that's another thing. We've talked about dwarf sheep at times. And guys have been, you know, unpleasantly surprised at times. Rockies and dolls. Yeah. They're looking for a big ram. And again, it goes – there's just 100 things that are going through your mind. And so –

Bottom line, we knew the shape that he had. The bases we knew were big and he carried it. Well, it kept going back to what you said. And I think that's a pivotal part of this. And for those guys that are listening, you know, future sheep hunters that are going to get the next set of tags this next year is like what you said is mass. If you got mass and it's that heart-shaped ram, you know, you're not going to be disappointed. You can't be. We fast forward to I'm laying on the gun and this ram decides to get up and make a death march right to us. And keep in mind we're talking lots of sheep in here. You guys know that. You were there. We kept our distance and out of sight of these sheep because the wind was basically bad. Blowing to it. Yeah. And we stayed out around the corner and we could see a little group of sheep, you know, with some dink rams with them.

And then, you know, midday he decided the use he was with – I mean, we're at the end of the route. There's really not a lot of breeding activity, but they're just still hanging around them. The one you that comes into heat is going to have a problem. Going to have a bunch of rams and it's going to be bad. But a ram like this can pretty much command whatever authority he wants when a you like that comes in. He'll walk in and he'll crush the little rams and say, just get out of my way. But he knew those yous. He'd either bred them. He knows he's been around them or else he just – Nothing happening here. So he upped and left, remember? Yeah. He is, you know, and all of a sudden he comes side-hilling around right above a skyline. Yeah, 230 yards. So you're through 15s on a tripod, skylined. And I'm on the scope, 25 power. No, 18 power on that one. He looked big, big, big right there.

But he's head-on too. And I didn't hear that from you. Now, it might be in the video. I didn't hear big, big, big. What I heard was, I don't know, Jason, what do you think? Kind of like we both got to decide. And I'm looking through the scope and I'm like, he's a half curl. I'm shooting a half curl. But that's – I mean, initially, all the bad things go through my mind. Yeah. If his bases aren't what we think they are and I'm shooting a half curl ram, I'm shooting a dink. And he's not standing next to all the other rams he had been. Right there. Now, when I videoed him the first time and I showed the video to Adam, I'm like, this dark ring ram, he's the one that stood out. He's the one that stood out. And Adam's like, yes. But it's hard. He's four miles away and then he's two miles away as I got closer and closer. But now he's by himself, standing there staring at you at 230 yards.

And he walks around the corner. And we're looking uphill. Yeah. You didn't watch him with the other rams. You just watch a ram walk around the corner and trust him that that's the right one. Yeah. That's the right ram. And Adam says, as long as – and I'm to the point – as long as it's the right ram, he's dying. And maybe subconsciously I heard Adam say, I don't know. But about the time Adam says, that's our ram, he noticed that big dark ring, I guess my safety went off. I said something – I have to watch again. But when I said I heard the safety go off and I'm like, it's about to happen. And then I don't – what did I say next, Chris? Because I said, yeah, but we've got plenty of time. He's not going anywhere. Yeah. Boom. Boom. My ears blew up. And I feel terrible because let's just – I'm going to be honest. I hate surprises and I hate blowing out somebody's ears.

And I've had it blown out on me a lot. And I don't like it. And so when Adam's like, dude, I wasn't even ready, I'm like, I'm sorry. I thought you knew. We're killing this sheep. He's staring at me broadside. He made a death march to us. He's looking for – he's going to go somewhere. Looking for the other sheep. We had to get – I'm contorted into these rocks. I've got a dead rest right now. But if he moves, I've got to reset up, re-deal with all the cactus. There's 14 species of cactus around us. And then we've got to – bottom line is he's broadside 230 yards. If he's the right ram, we're smoking him. And so I smoked him and I got – and I stood up and I'm like, Bronson, would you kill him if it was your tag? Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. That was like the dumb – that was the worst question I heard all week down there.

Because we were there to kill him because the night before I think I said that to you. And, you know, we'd compared him against – again, I got to see him the night before with a bunch of other rams and watch him specifically from all the angles. And it was like, dude, he's freaking big. But we still, Adam, you've got to admit, we never put a score on that ram. No. Because it's – We knew he was big. Yeah, we knew he was good enough. He was low 70s is the only thing we knew. Well, at least. We hadn't seen him at under two miles, either of us, until we saw him at 235 yards. And then you got 15s, you're like, what's the ram and what's the magnification doing to this ram? It goes back to me blowing up little deer thinking they're giant because you got them at 100 yards looking at them with 10s or 15s. Yeah, so – but anyway, we – so we hoot and hollered. It was done. He went right down.

And Chris got great video of it. It was awesome. So we'll put that together on our YouTube channel here before long. But then we walk up to the ram. And actually didn't even get to the ram. You remember, he died with his face down. So – Yeah. And remember, we watched him for a bit, make sure he's not getting up, and he didn't, obviously. I'm shooting my Red Rock is one shot. Yeah. We got up that chute and crested, and you could see him. You could see him from 30 yards or something like that. Yeah. And his bases are down, and I just – I knew right then. Because I've seen that look a lot. And usually that's – You know whether you're happy or sad. Yeah, right then I'm like, oh, my gosh. Because at 30 yards, you know, I just hadn't seen that. I hadn't seen what I saw. No. In my life. In your life. And then – Oh, well, yeah. Rockies? Oh, yeah. I haven't killed a 17-2-8 base Rocky. No. No. So –

And that's Montana stuff. And I'm like, define this for me, Adam. Like, what do you mean, oh, my gosh? So then we – And I'm like, he's a giant. I says, he's at 30 yards. I'm like, he's – his bases are bigger than we thought. And then I got up there, and I just have a way of my index finger and my thumbs, when I put it around – I usually walk up and I put it around bases of a sheep horn, and they're almost very close to 15. I've never actually measured it. If they touch. If my index finger and thumbs around, I do that, they're very close to 15. Like, might be within an eighth or two, but that's my barometer. If I can't touch, I know he's over 15. And I knew he was going to be over 15. You killed 16 base sheep here in Utah. Yeah, we killed another desert this year, 16-2, 16-3 last year, some Rocky. So, I mean, I just know, all right, this thing's an inch plus, so we got 16 plus.

So you did that. Since I did it, it was over two inches difference. I didn't even complete it, and I walked away, and I'm like, oh, my God. And you're like, what? And I'm like – Well, I know he's big. I mean, I've killed sheep and whatnot. But I tried to do that, and I threw my hands in there because I knew he was a minimum of an inch bigger or more than we thought. It was bigger. He's an inch bigger than I thought. We thought, in my mind, I'm thinking he might go 16 plus, which if he's 16 plus, he's high 70s all day long. Well, if he's 16 plus, he is. He's high 70s all day long. Because it really hadn't been a 16 killed in the unit. So we're thinking – That's exceptional. It goes back on paper. Like, when you haven't killed a 16, you kind of subconsciously think it's not possible. You're like, that's the limit. It's not possible. Well, and I knew he's got to be heavier than anything.

So you throw, in your mind, 16. Well, and the biggest has been 15 and a half ever. So that's already taken it up a notch. Yeah. And so – and I'm never going to throw out 17 plus. Anybody – if you're hunting Montana and Missouri breaks, you're looking for 17-inch plus base. And you see that, but not a lot of them. Yeah. But a two or three – But that's what makes a ram special. Well, that's 45 inches and 17 plus or something. Yeah. That's your special ram. Yeah. You know. Anyway, long story short, backed away. And I said – and I says – I went back and touched the horn. I says, my fingers are 15 inches. There's at least two inches of gap right there. That's right. That's right. I says, this is a freaking monster. That's right. This is a monster. This is a real deal. And then we started – Whether he's your look or not, you killed – And he wasn't. He's not my look.

But – and that's what another – my brother-in-law. Of course, they like to bust my chops. But he's like, dude, your ram's ugly. But he's like, I'd take big over ugly.

He's bigger than big. He is awesome. And so, yeah, just really fortunate. He ended up over 17. And then, you know, the checkout gal was super tight on him. Of course, she's scared she's doing it wrong and whatnot. And so, anyway, they did end up getting a 183 and some change. And then 181 and change. Net. Net. If he does net that, that would be the number one Nelson I'd taken in the state of Arizona. Yeah, he did have a chip out. And that – and he would have netted, you know, their 6-8 inch missing. So, he would have been – Gross a little more of a netting. An inch and a half higher. He would have netted 183 plus without that. But regardless. Regardless. Phenomenal ram. It was awesome. A lot of hoop and holler late at night. It was just – the only unfortunate thing is Jason, Chris, and I went up to Chris to video.

And Jason and I just to – you know, you can't have six guys stalking a big herd of sheep to – and the only unfortunate thing is everybody else, you know, Jeff and John and – It's a freaking two or three hour hike. Sam and Jared and everybody – Wyatt, everybody. It was there. It was two and a half, two miles away. And with the amount of daylight left, if we'd have had to wait for them to get there for pictures, it would have been right at dark. And then it's – it's a bad hike out in the dark. It was kind of in the middle of – In the cactus, too. You're going to end up with stuff stuck in you. And you guys were already hiked in far enough. Everybody's just like – you guys were just like – The writing was on the wall, unfortunately. So we just – they made the call. We'll go get camp. Which, Jeff, that dinner that night was incredible. It was. He gave us a half a chicken. He had five hours.

He had five hours to smoke chicken. I felt like he ate a whole chicken. Oh, I did. We had the Camp Chef Pellet Grill cruising back at camp, smoke billowing, and we ate like kings all week, Jeff. But that was awesome. We were set up. You know, we're set – we go down there, we're set up for days because, let's face it, Jason's got a tag. He ain't going to kill the first ram. He's like, we're going to be grinding out. You know, we're going to kill a giant. You guys didn't know how serious we were. But, man. Adam and I got done – when we got done scouting, we're like, this is going to happen tomorrow. It was evident of that, Friday night. Yeah. But you guys roll in Friday night, and it was awesome. One of the fun things about – we weren't there, but we had a different angle, and we watched that ram for seven hours. Yeah. You guys could see him all day. So that was pretty cool.

And he would stand out above the other rams. The number of times – because we were looking for the ring, and you could see it, and then he'd turn, and you're like, maybe I didn't see it. You know, it was just far enough away. Like, it was a mile and a half, two miles. Yeah. And so, you know, back and forth. But we kept going. The number of times we said, that is a phenomenal ram. Yeah. You know, and if that's not the ram, Jason should look at that ram. Well, and the dark ring, that chip that we alluded to on the – right around the fore ring, it had a bunch of damage in the back, and that crack just must have enough moisture going down that ring. It just started cracking out onto the face of the horn, and the other side didn't even match. It didn't have that dark, but it did on that side, and it was kind of a standout.

And when we finally – when he was looking at his head on at 235, when he finally did turn, I could see that, and I said, got to be him, pound him, or something like that. And I don't know. I didn't even hear that. I don't know what I heard. I know he died. He died. It was awesome. So then Adam's got a really good client, kind of turned into a friend that drew a tag, and we kind of had this planned out that we would go from one hunt to the next hunt. Yeah. Just had a gentleman that – you know what often's the case. You have a lot of clients or potential clients call you over the years on whether it be Utah or Nevada, or in this case it was Arizona, just to, hey, where do I need to be putting in? I need a desert sheep for my full crew, finnaz, Grand Slam, whatever. I need four sheep. I need my fourth sheep for North American variety subspecies.

And, you know, at 75 and then now 79, you know, you're going to try to pick units that are going to hopefully match that. Well, and some of these people you hear back from and most you talk to once a year and you don't hear from because the sheep odds are one in hundreds, you know. This gentleman, John, had one under the true max. He even took the hunter ed. He told me back in the mid-90s. He took a week vacation to go. He didn't have a hunter ed card from Pennsylvania. So he had to go to Arizona and at that time take their course for a week. So he went out and he took that, but he missed a year somehow. He doesn't remember how. So he wasn't in the true max point pool. And so you're still – you're just doing what you can to guide him in terms of, you know, anyway, pick a unit. It's got good sheep numbers, not brutally difficult. It was a perfect match for him. Anyway, he drew a tag.

And so, you know, he's not one of these guys that, you know, gets his results on the portals and all. He doesn't even have a portal, you know. So I remember I had to call and get his results for him over the 602 number. And you're like, dude, you won't believe it. And I had to call three times because it's one of those you were drawn or successful for whatever big horn sheep. And I'm just like, what? This is – That's two of the ten between him and I. Yeah. Well, we drew some other license app guys too that we'll talk about later in 44B North. And so, anyway, some others. But long story short, made the call. He's ecstatic. He's 79. And – And Adam, you're taking me. Well, he had told me that from the start. But once again, like he had max points in Nevada, which he still does. And, you know, so, yeah, maybe it works into something.

But regardless, that's kind of what we do here at Epic Outdoors. You talk to people about their hunting plans. And this guy was very specific. He had dropped all of his applications. He was only putting in for desert sheep in Arizona and Nevada because he had so many points. That's all he's wanting to do. And he drew it. So, when he drew that, you know, I don't normally guide down there. But I thought, well, Jason drew. He's basically on the neighboring unit. Probably can pull this off. And it's going to be a really good feel-good story. And he's – so, let's do it. So, while I was down scouting Nevada during the ceremony, went and got the license, took the test, got the BLM permits all squared away. For those of you listening that weren't just running this under the radar, we weren't. It's all legit. So, anyway.

So, we basically just decided to set him up for coming for four or five days into Jason's hunt, hoping that we'd have Jason and a ram dead. Well, we had that down quick. Well, and Adam was like, when should I have this guy fly in? And I'm like, we'll be done by the fourth. I know. So, we picked, like, the fourth and ended up being we should have had him not even book his flight and just call him and say, get here. Yeah, probably. But regardless of that, showed up and had a bunch of the guys, Brad, Jason, Jeff, Chris. We had fun. We learned that unit for a few days. I mean, I was there the week before and found some rams. And we spent some time, you know, just enjoying it. Jason's got over and done with quick. We had a lot of food. My trailer didn't even hardly get touched because Jeff's like, I got stuff unthought. We got to cook this.

My wife went to Costco and we freaking emptied Costco. Yes. We were loaded. You got the epic crew and with just the peanut butter sandwiches alone. Yes. For loaves of bread. Yeah. It's a significant amount of food. Let alone chickens. Let alone. Yeah. You go five days into your hunt, we would have put a den into it. But my stuff stayed in my freezer because Jeff kept telling me, I got stuff unthought I got to eat. I got this unthought I got to eat. You know, and Jeff, we'd look to Jeff as our cook. We're capable of cooking. Pretty much Jeff is the cook. But he's. And the fodder. When he does his magic, it's pretty good. And you get done at 530 or 6 at night. It's, you've got plenty of time to cook a good dinner. The nights are long. You know, that's the thing. Is this time of year, there's plenty of time to sit around and BS and do your thing and have a good dinner.

You know, there's just, it is nice. That sheep hunting in Arizona, it's nice. You know, it was comfortable. Like, it wasn't super cold. It was just, that was an excellent hunt. Yeah. Excellent. Well, so in time came that John was going to fly in. So we had, I don't know, obviously John, his only criteria was, Adam, I'm coming. I need to finish my grand slam. But I don't want a sickle horn. So right when he got here, I was like, Adam says you'll even shoot a sickle horn. You should have seen the look on his face because he had told me five times that's the only thing he didn't want to shoot. And he looked at Jason and then Jason laughed and he, and John got it. But John's a great guy. He's from Pittsburgh. And anyway, we, you know, I had to stop, shoot his gun. And, you know, I shoot a Red Rock Precision.

And, you know, a lot of folks, this is not a knock against him, but on the eastern U.S., long range guns are, you don't need them. You can't see far enough to shoot them. And in some states. It's a waste of money. Yeah. In some states, you can't even use centerfire rifles for your white-tailed hunts. Parts of New York and Iowa. I mean, you're using muzzleloaders and shotguns or bows. I mean, I've had clients not even own, you know, you can't even have a muzzle brake on the end of a centerfire in parts of New York because that's viewed as some kind of a modification. I don't know. So, I've had that. So, just tell them, bring, just come out, use mine. Well, John, you know, at 79 and knowing kind of a neat back story, killed his first doll in 1966. 52 years ago, he started his Grand Slam. And so, I'm always sensitive. Everybody kind of wants to use your own gun.

And I didn't know if he had one gun he'd used for all of his sheep. And that's natural. If you do, you want to finish it. Kind of like his hat. Yeah. He brings a hat that he's worn for 42 years. It was a Santa Claus red hat. You know, hat that the ear flaps fold up. Bright red. It was bright. Reflective red. Yeah, it was bright. It was like a shiny red. And, you know, we were hidden most of the time. And if it ever became an issue, I would have him, he would take it off. But he said, I want to wear this lucky. I gave him one of my hats. He says, no offense, but I'm going to wear my lucky hat today. And I'm like, okay, whatever. Do you notice it's red? That might be a problem. But we stopped and shot his gun and stopped and shot mine, you know, after we left the Vegas airport. Yeah, and we actually were on a specific target ram you had found the first time you were down there, Scout.

It was about 10 days earlier. But we found other big rams. We had him found other good rams that we knew would be good for him. But this ram was a little bit cut above. We had to shoot. You're probably going to shoot 300 to 500 yards. It was riding on the wall. And they're not six with the standard scope. You're holding over. And John, fortunately, said, no, I'm not tied to the gun. My other gun I've used everything with, I, you know, had to leave behind because something went wrong with it. So this is a new gun anyway. And I said, okay, well, let's shoot my gun. If you shoot it well, we're good. He lit it, did it, liked it. It was Red Rock Precision 7mm. So that's what we took afield the next day. And I guess fast forward a little bit, John is in great shape.

He's told us that for 20 years since he's been retired, basically, since he was 60 years old, he works out Monday through Friday for an hour and a half to two hours at the gym every day for 20 years. Oh, he lit into me about push-ups right off the bat. And I'm like, he's like, do you know what these kind of push-ups are? And he said some name. And I'm like. On his first two knuckles, right? And then he does. Yeah, first two knuckles. And then they're like five steps down, five steps up, you know. And I'm like, no, I don't know what those are. And he goes, Jason, you don't know what those are? And I'm like, well, why don't you show me? He freaking lays out on Adam's camp trailer. On a hard linoleum floor, there's knuckles on the ground and just starts cranking them out. And he's like, now you and Adam need to do them. I said, no, I'm going to be tired for tomorrow.

But great attitude and great health, fortunately. And that was one thing we kept telling John is, hey, I hope we're alive at 79, let alone hunting. Desert sheep or any sheep. And maybe just to fast forward through a little bit. When the time came, we got on the ram. He ended up taking. We had the other ram found. But it just ended up putting a slip on us, kind of in a much tougher location. And got away from us and went to the next ram in line, so to speak, that we had found. And he made a great shot. Proned him out on the pack, 508 or 9 yards, and a one-shot kill. And he was beside himself because he didn't. I didn't even tell him how far he was shooting. And I find, even with my kids, you tell people that and they start mentally like, oh, I've never shot that bar before. I can't do it, Adam. Oh, yes, I've had that. So I just, I don't.

And, you know, and if they knew how to look at my turret, they'd look right up and see it on the 5 and know that was 500. But they don't know what that means. So he was proned out. That says it's on the 8. Yeah. Yeah, he's 250, John. Take him. You know. But, you know, he got him in the scope. He was with another ram. So once they separated, I said, stay on him. I dialed the power up. And he said, oh, I like that right there, about 15 power. Didn't go all the way to 20. Yeah. And he center punched him. And it was over. And then I told him how far. And he went crazy. He said, I can't wait to tell my buddies at home they'll die. Well, it's six shoots that far. That's right. Well, he did tell me that was going to be 60 to 65 inches low at that range or something. He knew. Who knows? You know, that's five and a half feet. But long story short, fun hunt to kind of end that week in Arizona.

It was fun. It was fun to watch it, too. Really, really fun. Drew the tag. Finished it off. And, you know, 79 years old. Obviously very deserving. Somebody waits that long. He'd been applying longer than Max, but, again, missed the one year. So I was one year behind in the chase. But it was a fun time. It was a great, great, basically seven days in Arizona, you know, in between those two hunts. So I had a great time. Killed him a great ram. Got the ram taken care of. Loaded him up. I guess we'll give a shout out to QU. Love the QU packs. You know, I personally, for most of my sheep hunts that aren't backpack hunts, I use the Icon Pro. The 5200. I have a 7200 when I'm actually going backpacking with all my gear with me and staying overnight. But work flawlessly, obviously, carry all the gear. Big enough to have everything.

And, you know, these later season hunts, I mean, I was surprised on that hunt. It was cold. I had a lot more gear and clothes and layers on this hunt than I anticipated having that week in Arizona. You think you're going to Arizona, you think of spring training and baseball. And that wasn't what we had. It was a little bit cooler. I've been running that 7200 all season. I started. You should see that poor thing. I mean, I started in bear season, of course. So I'm packing bear bait. Oh. That bear season's hilarious. That poor pack. That thing packed a lot of dog food. Let's just say that. Dog food, grease, you name it. I mean, it looks like it's a few years older than it probably should be. Yeah. But, I mean, you think, I mean, that pack's packed out. You know, I'll help pack out. John's sheep. Several other sheep this year. Three Rockies with me this year over there.

Three Rockies with you.

Deer. Matt's elk. A few deer. You got a phone call. You got a phone call. I mean, it's. Anybody out there, you need something packed out? Jeff. Jeff's got a set. It's almost a curse to have a 7200 pack on Stamboy. Oh, I know. Well, I remember I was sitting on the hill. I kill my deer. You know, me and Jason. In Idaho, me and Jason are there. And Jason's like, I just talked to Adam. He asked me what pack you got. And I told him you had the 7200. He says, oh, he can fit it in there. Tell him to pack it out. And that's true. And I'm like, and hey, I can make it there. But you're going to be back to the trailhead. Man up. Freaking put that deer in that pack and come on out. And he did. He manned up. And it freaking was down at the trailhead. But my kids have that 7200 you're talking about. And it's awesome. Because it. It is. It's big. It's. It'll suck up to a day pack.

But then it expands when they need it to, you know, go on overnight trips or something like that. So. Anyway. It's good. Awesome packs. Appreciate the guys at QU for supporting us at Epic Outdoors as well. Check them out. You can only buy their gear at QU.com. K-U-I-U.com. There's no retailers. No markup. Just buy them direct. QU.com. So what else are we going to talk about, Bronson?

We're almost done. And that's depressing. The hunting season's about over. Oh. You got to. We got to. We got to. Another sheep hunt. And deer hunt coming up in Arizona here in a couple of weeks with my son. And. But. You know. For the most part. We're. It's desk time. And. We'll probably be able to crank with podcast or two out a week. Get back to that normal schedule. So we appreciate everybody's been. Bombarding Chris and everybody else about. Get. Keep them coming. Faster. Faster. Well. We're. We're not together much. This is the first time the five of us have been in here in. I don't know how long. Together. Yeah. Long time. We're in that time of year. We're. We're going to be pumping out a monthly magazine. Cover all the western states before it's time to apply. And. Get you all that information. And. Start applying guys. And so anybody out there that's. That's wanting to. You know.

Start the application process. Or maybe you've. Been doing it on your own. Or had another company doing it. Or whatever. If you'd like to. Visit with us. We'd sure like to visit with you. And. Kind of go over your application strategy. And. And. See if there's something we can help you with. So. Anyway. We also. Yeah. We want to thank Red Rock. Again. We've talked a lot about them. They're responsible for. The death of a couple more Rams. And. Who knows how many Rams. Red Rock. Guns have taken. But it's. It's many. Many. And. Anyway. It's been awesome. You can get a hold of Red Rock. You can go to. www.redrockprecision.com. Or you can give them a holler. At. 801-425-6574. Well. Another thing we talked about. We alluded to the YouTube episode that will be coming up here. Probably. On Jason's hunt. Maybe we'll throw a little bit of teaser stuff about John's. Because we got great footage.

We had a lot of guys going. Everybody had their phone scopes rolling on. On both hunts. And so we got a lot of great footage of live sheep. And kill shots of these sheep from a couple different angles. So appreciate the phone scope guys. Everybody in our crew had the best of the best for their phones. Even Jeff. He got a brand new iPhone. So. Yes. He had the new setup. And he's got 128 gigs. And he's cranking video. Oh man. Filling it up. So. Adam probably knows. These guys know. I was milking that last time out on that old iPhone. So. Not like you do tires. Get the last 500 miles. Or the last. Get the last 30 seconds of video he can before it's full. Or the last 200 miles on the tires. There's a wolf. He's somewhere in southern Nevada right now laughing his butt off at this. At that comment right there. They have officially dubbed it. You know. I had a little Jeff John.

I had a little Jeff John experience. Oh yeah? Do you have two or three flats? Yes. I have two or three flats. That's a whole other story with Matt. He had freaking three flats. You know. On his little Tacoma. There on that Nevada elk hunt. I helped him with. So. Anyway. That's another thing. You know. A lot of guys will be like. Geez. Jason didn't. Oh that's part of the reason. Didn't spend all the time. You know. Out scouting. That was over Thanksgiving. The day before Thanksgiving. That hunt opened. Didn't it? Yeah. And so. In Nevada. Yeah. Matt Wolfley had a late elk hunt. And of course. I committed to help him. And it's just one of those things. You're trying to do a little everything. And you want to be everywhere. And you can't be. And so. I did spend a lot of time. And of course he killed a great bull. And then when I finally made it down to scout sheep. You know.

It's just a little bit close to the hunt. And of course it was making me nervous. But. Didn't turn out so bad. So. Same thing with Adam. He wanted to go down earlier. But we're just. Doing all you can do for everybody. State to state. Yeah. State to state. So. And trying to stay married. I mean. Trying to. Trying to keep your tires inflated. And stay married. Yes. It's all true. So. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. That's about it. You know. Want to thank Outdoor Edge. They're a great partner of ours. Of course we. Use their knives. And razor blades. And whatnot. To take care of our sheep. And they're just awesome. They're actually a knife. That's got. Stability. In fact. Jana was cutting up. And this is another kind of funny thing. So. I kill the sheep. I bring it home. Adam's down there scouting. He's scouting. He's going to finish scouting for John. And I'm. I take a half a day. Run up here.

Of course. And eat a night. Wake up early in the morning. Go back down. And help finish scouting. And get ready for John. And.

Took the meat to Jana. Well. To take to the butchers. An hour and a half. Right. It's an hour and a half each way. And. Three hours. They're pretty small. Dude. I mean. So. Yeah. She's thinking. I'll just. Take care of this. Yeah. So. She's like. Actually FaceTiming. She's over there. With one of my quarters of sheep. With a knife in one hand. I'm like. That's pretty sexy. Right there. So.

So. That's why I married you. That's how it is in their family. She's barefoot. And cutting meat. So. Anyway.

So. She's awesome. She's awesome. Yep. She is. Yeah. Nevertheless. So. She's over there. And pretty soon. I get a. I get a text. My knives suck. My knives suck. And I'm like. She's like. Finally. So. She incorporated the kids. Got Sean in there. And Sean's like. Mom. These knives suck. And she goes. Yeah. And he. He's like. I'm going down. And getting my outdoor edge knife. He went down there. Got the outdoor edge knife. A new razor blade. And she's like. It was unbelievable. It was unbelievable. I said. Well. Did you go to the office. And grab another epic knife. She's like. Oh yeah. And she's like. It was. I mean. After Sean threw me. Finally went down. I said. Well. Every one of our households. Should have a few of those. If we're going to cut up sheep meat. So anyway. A little shout out to outdoor edge. Making my life a little better. Because. And. We ought to mention.

There's a way to get. An outdoor edge. Epic outdoors. Custom knife. Are we giving those away now? How's that? We're giving those away. So. Also. This dovetails into. You think you're never going to draw a sheep tag. You ought to be putting in for any sheep drawings you can. We're. We've got a giveaway that we just launched. And so you can. Buy tickets for as low as $25. Or just renew. Renew or join our service. So there's one. The stone sheep. That's right. Is tickets. You can buy tickets for. Or refer a buddy. And the doll sheep. The only way you can get in that is to join our service. So if you join. Or renew. Then you got a free. Then you got a free entry. Join or renew. And our December magazine. Might just point out. Has a great story from. Terry Horner. Or for his Alaska doll sheep. We gave away. Maybe 18 months. Or two years ago. I'm not sure. With Ultima 2. The Outfitters.

Where I went. He had a great story of his hunt. And just. Now Terry was the guy that was in the back home. He was in a loader. Or something. At work. When we called him. And he's like. Everybody's staring at me. Wondering why I'm not. Yeah. All of a sudden. The gravel quit dumping. And everybody. The assembly line was backed up. And he's freaking out. And he's going. We might be embellishing a little bit. But he. Oh it's pretty close. Anyway. So yeah. I mean. You know. Just. Working dude. Doesn't matter who wins. Everybody's eligible. And we love. We love doing those things. We love to say. You know. Thanks to. Everybody for being members of ours. That's. You know. We pay full price for those hunts. It's not like we just get some discount. Cut rate hunt. And give it away. These are with people. We want to go with. And in many cases. We have been. In case of these. Yeah. When Adam and I.

Secure these hunts. We look at what we would do personally. And if you look at that deer hunt. I'd do that personally. If you look at the sheep hunt. We'd do those personally. And so we've got a whole lineup of hunts. We've got six hunts. That you can apply for. Of course. The seventh hunts. Is it all sheep. And you can. You know. Join or renew. And you're automatically in for that. And you can't buy tickets into there. And of course. You can get your. Join your buddy. And get tickets in there. And whatnot. And so anyway. Check it out. In our December issue. So go back on the knife. To get the knife. We've got a special package deal. You spend $200. And you get the knife. As a bonus. Okay. So. Right on. And if you spend $500. You get a $100 gift card. For phone scope. So you can get your phone scope. Most of them are under that. You might even have some money left over.

And you also get the knife. And you get the knife. 30. And 30. And 30 tickets. Right. To split up a month. Six hunts. However you want. Right. And if you were to buy those 30 tickets individually. At $25. You can see the value. You can see the savings. You're saving $250. There. And then $140. In phone scope and knife. Yeah. So. Well. So anyway. Yeah. Just talking sheep. There's a couple more sheep punts. We're giving away. We're obviously going to be. We'll be announcing our show schedule here. Coming up. Probably in a future podcast. We'll see some of those. But. Overall. We're getting to the end of the year. As we close this episode. We just want to give one more shout out. To. Jim Wendham and his crew. At Kenetrek. Kenetrek Boots. They've been with us from the start. We've used their boots for. I don't know. Tons. I don't know. 10 to 15 years. And if 15 is too high.

You notice I used to say 10 to 15. Because my old brain is getting older. I group stuff into five year chunks. And I know it's somewhere within there. A long time. It's not just your brain that's getting older. That's right. Brain. Body. Everything. But they're awesome boots. And sure glad I had them down there in Arizona. Withstanding a lot of the abuse they put up to. And the jumping chollas. And all that type of stuff. That stick to your tires and your truck all over the place. Let alone your boots. And have a Jeff jump. That's right. So appreciate Jim and the guys there. At Kenetrek. You know. You may get catalogs in the mail from them. Like we all do. It's that time of year. If you've got somebody. Or you've got a pair of boots that you need. It's into hunting season. Maybe drop a few hints to your family or whatnot. Kenetrek.com. Spelled K-E-N-E-T-R-E-K. Kenetrek.com.

It's their website. Or 800-232-6064. Great boots. And appreciate their support of us. Here at Epic Outdoors. And if you do have any questions about some of this gear. You know. If you're a member. And you've got a question. Don't be afraid to call us and ask us. Like. You know. Because we. Pretty much all these guys that we work with. All these advertisers. We're using their stuff. So. If you've got a question about. You know. What frame pack. I hit up Brandon when I was buying my pack. You know. And he said. Just get this. And. So anyway. If you have any questions on that. Give us a hauler. We're happy to help you figure out which pack and whatnot. Or. You know. Which. Which Kenetrek boot. Or which. You know. There's a hundred different items there. That we use on a daily basis. That we'd love to help you. Line up. You know. That's. That is a service.

And it's part of being a member of Epic Outdoors. You know. You get that opportunity. Okay. Sounds good. Well. Is there anything else you guys want to holler. Talk about. No. We're good. We'll call it a day. Appreciate you all out there. Especially the members here. You know. That support us here at Epic. I talked to a guy today. That says. Hey. I'm a member of your podcast. Which. I don't know what that means. Listens to our podcast. And by the way. I'm now a member of the magazine. And so. I was like. Awesome. Right on. You know. So anybody that's listening. If you need a little help. Of course. That's what we do for a living. We're picking and choosing units. We talk about everything. You know. That makes sense. From a non-resident perspective. And. Sure. Willing to visit with you. And help you as well. Well. And if. It's that time of year. It's about to kick off. It's December.

So January. The. It all starts over again. We got Arizona. Antelope and elk. Kicking off. As well as Wyoming species. For. You know. Elk. And. Moose sheep. And goat. Bison stuff. And so. If you're thinking of giving us a try. Even if you do your own. Own applications. We hear it all the time. About how members. Get one or two little pieces of advice. Or tips throughout the application year. Whether it's. You know. A two for one. On the Utah license thing. Buying it. First year. On the end. And using it the second go around. Or. You know. A different angle. On a different state. Or how to use your points. Or things like that. And. Saying how. That one tip is well worth it. Or a member. Epic member. Experience database. When they draw a tag. A guy they talk to. That we provided that information to them. That just gave them a few missing pieces on their hunt.

We think it's well worth a hundred dollars. Give us a try this year. Again. John already talked about. Promos we got going on right now. You'll be entering in for a dollar sheet pun. If you got other members. Or buddies that aren't a member. Consider having us join. And get some other entries in the hat. For referring them to us. Go to epicoutdoors.com. I forgot to mention that. For the information on our drawings. For those seven hunts. You can get all the info there. Or give us a call. But speaking of that. Put a little plug in. I'm putting together the January magazine right now. And so we sent out. You know. An email to our members. Requesting photos for. Wyoming and Arizona. And I got. Shira's moose photo back. With a note that said. Thank Jason. And the guys. I switched unit. After talking to Jason. And I drew this. This. This Shira's moose. Wouldn't have drawn it.

Without talking to him. Yeah. Nice. And it was just. Really appreciative. Those are good stories. Those are fun stories. By the way. Send us some wolf photos too. Anybody that smokes a wolf. We want to see it. And that will be publishing some wolf information as well. In this January magazine. All right. With that. Until next time. Feel free. Give us a holler. 435-263-0777. Epic Out. Doors.com. No. I was just saying. Epic Out. Epic Out. Epic Out. Oh. Epic Out. Drop the mic. How about. Epic Out. www.epicoutdoors.com. No. Epic Out. Epic Out. Epic Out.