EP 112: Applying in Utah, New Mexico, and Oregon

Any unit can produce a 350 bull. Those bulls, a lot of them will be with the cows. Five days can be over and done with really fast, but it spreads out the hunt applicants on different hunt codes. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Should we start this mess? Let's do it. Hey everybody, Jason Carter and Adam Bronson here with the Epic Outdoors podcast. Coming at you from southern Utah. Got some snow in the hills. Bronson's excited. Can hardly get him to quit talking about it just because last year sucked so bad. It was rough, but yes, we're full of optimism right now. It's early February and it's white everywhere. A lot of snow. Lots of snow. We're actually headed out to the Wild Sheep Convention out there in Reno. Jeff and I will be driving. Adam and his wife are flying, which is a smarter way to go. I just hate sitting next to people in airplanes. So he'd rather sit next to Jeff for 10 hours. Yeah. Well, eight plus, yeah. Snowplows and breaking my window. Last time I cracked my window a few times. Jerks. Anyway. I think they enjoy it.

You got to admit, those snowplows, they know when the rocks are flying behind them. They know it. And they're like, here comes this nice little Tacoma. Brand new. We're going to crush this guy. Yeah, that was brand new last year and, uh. Dude. Crushed it. Broke it in. On Highway 50. Oh, yeah. The loneliest highway in America. Yep. Anyway, do want to thank Under Armour for sponsoring this podcast. They sponsor all our podcasts right here. Front and center. Working with them on everything we do. Been working with them for many years. Got a lot of great products. Anyway. Good people. Good products. Support them. UA.com. Uh, we're also getting ready to head up to Salt Lake here in a few days as well to the Western Hunting Conservation Expo. That is February 14th to the 17th. We will be at booth number 2744, like we always are. Same position.

We'll be right there next door and in conjunction with the Kent's Optics guys. And, uh, so stop by, visit us there. Booth number 2744. We'll be there all week. Great place to come and mix and mingle with hunters and, and apply for some extra tags. They got 200 extra Utah big game tags to apply for, for $5 each. And, uh, somebody's going to get them. Might as well be me or you or both. Yeah. That's right. Jason's boy drew an antelope tag there last year. Yeah, he did. He drew an antelope tag. And so that's awesome, especially where, you know, uh, being a resident, you got to choose species. You get to, you can't apply for all of them. And so that, you know, drawing an antelope tag through the expo isn't something he normally applies for. So pretty awesome. Great opportunity to go out there, smoke a goat, uh, dadgum truck chasers anyway. So other than that, uh, yeah, we'll be out there.

Of course, you've probably seen on social media, some of you guys that, uh, kind of get on Instagram. You love Instagram. You've seen Kent's optics. And of course they're showcasing all kinds of sheds. It'll be in their booth. Yeah. And, uh, good idea. It got me fired up. It got me fired. Made me not even want to post anything. Yeah. I'm like, yeah. Two thirties, two twenties, two 18 typicals or whatever it was. Yeah. So anyway, they'll, they bring quite a, quite a show. Of course, uh, uh, right. Basically we share a booth. So, uh, we also have the full curl society. That'll be happening during the expo February 16th this year. They're giving away 11 sheep hunts. And, uh, so anyway, you can sign up for the, for the event, buy your sheep tickets at www.fullcurl.org. So go on there, get your tickets, attend the event. It'll be Saturday. It's awesome.

It'll be a room full of people, full of sheep nuts about sheep nuts. So it's pretty funny. Sheep enthusiasts. Sheep. Sheep enthusiasts. I like that. Anyway, uh, probably a thousand dudes in there. I don't know. Somewhere between 500 and a thousand. There's not going to be an oyster fry. There will not be that. It's not going to be full of sheep nuts. Mountain oysters. All right. So anyway, uh, you know, support the hunt expo. It's an awesome event. It's a, where a lot of Western hunters, the serious Western big game guys get together and just visit. And there's a lot of tags for sale. A lot of tags given away, raffled, whatever. And so anyway, we'll be there. Come visit us. Let's talk hunting. All right. Let's get this thing started. What are we going to talk about today? We're going to break down, I think, in a general overview, the February issue of the magazine.

Keeping in mind, there's way more than we can cover here in even 30, 40 minutes that we're going to take the time to do that. So we might as well break down just a couple real quick alerts to remind you of. We will be covering the deer and elk in Montana in our March issue of the magazine. That is pending commission approval on February 13th. And just by way of notification, we are going to put that in the March issue. You'll have a short turnaround time. But keeping in mind, the March 15th is the application deadline for Montana deer and elk. But you do now have a new points only application period for the last couple years. They've had that. So if you're only going to do points only, it's no big deal. You do that in the summertime. And as a teaser, there's a bill in the legislature in Montana right now to push the deer and elk application deadline to April 1st for 2020.

So 2019, it's still going to be March 15th. So stay tuned. Maybe we'll cover it a little bit later next year. That's awesome. Yeah, hopefully they do that. So anyway, we also had a Nevada guide draw alert, meaning for mule deer, they have a guide draw that's for mule deer only and for rifle hunters. So archery or muzzleloader or none of those seasons will be available in the guide draw only for mule deer and only for rifles. So anyway, we have calculated out the odds. It's generally two to three times better to apply in the guide draw if you are a rifle hunter for those specific tags. We did print the application deadline being March 4th. That was the proposed date. Never in history have we ever seen them adjust that date. And we wanted to get this alert out just to let guys know that it was fast approaching. The commission actually changed it. It would be March 11th.

And so anyway, from February 11th to March 11th, you've got basically 30 days to apply for that. If you do want to go in for that, get a hold of an outfitter. Or if you don't know a guide, you want some recommendations, call us. That's what Adam and I do every day, all day long is recommend outfitters, hunts, applications, strategies, whatever. And so it's right up our alley. Happy to help you. You know, give you a name and phone number or two or three. And you can call some guys and see if you can apply and get applied in that draw. They do need to apply you. You can't go online and do it yourself. They've got a PIN number and all kinds of ways to keep normal guys out. That's right. And if you know you're going to hire a guide when you draw anyway, you should apply. And you're a rifle hunter. You should apply with a guide.

Your odds will be, Jason and I, we worked pretty much every unit, probably three quarters of them last year. And it was anywhere between double and maybe four times is better drawing odds going in the guide draw. Four times. Yeah, that's right. It was significantly better. So definitely worth your time to do it. So, well, let's jump in and do a highlight, I guess, of Utah. Uh, best, I guess, way to characterize that is Utah's probably, it's not something you plan on short-term hunting, unless you're going to do the general season deer. Ever in your entire life. How about that? That sounds very pessimistic. It's tough to draw. It's tough. Although we love it, but it's tough. All right. So we'll talk to mainly, I guess, from a non-resident perspective. It's a $65 hunting license in Utah as a prerequisite to play the game. $65 for adults, 18 and up.

And if you're a youth, I think it's $25, but as a non-resident. And then it's $10 per species after that. So if you're going to make the commitment to do Utah, apply for Utah, definitely add as many species as it interests you to get more out of your license and application fee purchase. Adam and I talk to guys every day, and we definitely, you know, we recommend applying for units versus points only, just because it's so tough to get drawn. You need to have your name in the hat many, many years. And, you know, they do offer tags on a random draw. So you can draw with zero points, one point, whatever. And you obviously get more names in the hat with the more points you have. And so definitely be applying. It's the same fee as well. So, you know, whether it's points only, whether you're applying for a particular hunt, then, you know, same fee, you might as well be doing it.

And if you were to be successful and you wanted to get your points back and turn it back in, you could even get a refund if you do it early enough. So there's no harm. There's no risk in applying for a tag. No, there's not. And we highly recommend that. Utah tags are very hard. They're hard for residents to draw. Residents have to choose either to apply for deer or elk or antelope. And then one of the once-a-lifetime species, which are desert sheep, rocky mountain sheep, mountain goat, moose, or bison. Residents have to choose one once-a-lifetime and one of the others. Non-residents can apply for everything. So to make it worth your time, once again, apply for everything. Unless your schedule just can't allow it, like Jason said, put in for the draw. We talk to people every year, multiple people every year, that draw when they don't think

they should or they didn't even have a prayer, but they decided not to do points only and they drew. So definitely do that. It's not a state, if you're looking to start today, that's probably realistically one you're going to hunt very often. But it has great quality on elk and deer compared to the West. I mean, it's one of the top four or five elk states and top three to four deer states in the limited draw unit. So it's a good state from a quality standpoint. All the once-a-lifetime species have excellent hunts if you're lucky enough to draw them. One thing we talk to a lot of our clients about, Adam, is, you know, we go to the go through all the Western states and we're kind of comparing each other and which ones to apply for and which ones not to. The one thing we like about applying in multiple Western states is everything's different.

There's no two states alike, whether it be, you know, some of them are similar in the application process and procedure, but everything's different and that's what we like about it. Utah is one of those. It's very, it's like Adam said, inexpensive to apply. You're going to get points, but we kind of use that as more of a long-term program. Whereas, you know, maybe New Mexico or one of these other states, we, you know, you have more short-term programs and strategy in making your applications. There's one loophole, I guess, in applying for Utah and their licensing system. Not really a secret. It's the only state that really lets you do this, but their hunting licenses are good. They're valid for 365 days. So if you apply this year and don't draw or whatever, you can apply next year before that license expires and they won't charge you another $65.

So you can kind of get a two-for-one on the hunting license fee. So if that softens the blow for some of you guys, you get a two-for-one, you do have to kind of plan that out a little bit. Generally, I'd tell you to wait towards the latter part of the application period the first year, and then you got more time the second year to make your decision. But just something to consider, you know, $65 is $65, I guess. Yeah, there you go. I like it. And like Adam said, wait toward the end of the application period, and then you'll be just bumping that date. Calendar shifts forward a day. Just keep bumping that date, and at some point it'll catch up to you. But for the most part, you get a two-for-one there. So as Adam talked about earlier, non-residents can apply for everything and should apply for everything that makes sense.

For $10 additional, you're going to have the non-refundable hunting license fee anyway. You might as well, for $10, be applying for anything and everything. And we outline those species within our publication. You've got desert sheep, Rocky Mountain bighorns, mountain goat, moose, bison. Those are what we consider to be our once-in-lifetime species. That's right. So when it comes to elk, part of the reason that makes Utah a very tough state to draw is they give archery tags start at the end of August and go for 28 days. Then they follow it with like a nine-day rifle elk hunt, and then a muzzleloader hunt right after that. So literally, every day of September, elk are being hunted. Consequently, tag numbers aren't high. They have good quality. It's not as high as it was 10 years ago. Still solid quality in the best units. And any unit can produce a .350 bull.

It really can, even though there's a lot of units probably more known for .300 to .330 bulls. The fact that you can hunt in the rut with a firearm, be it a rifle or a muzzleloader, those are popular. Who doesn't want to do that? They're very hard to draw. Utah, the late season hunts are probably most forgotten. We're used to those in other states like in New Mexico or Arizona where that's their big opportunity hunts. Utah, they still don't give that many tags in November. They give more, but those are still really good hunts. And I guess just to impress upon people's minds, if you're in no man's land on the points chase and you want to try to use points, look at some of the late rifle hunts. They are, they're high kill rates and they're good hunts. They really are. The dates are, you know, early to mid-November, but you're, you're not there with three to

500 people like you are in Arizona. I like it. Yep. You're a hundred percent right. And, uh, and you know, we found that the muzzleloader season dates seem to be the best for quality. The September 23rd to October 4th, those bulls really are rutting. I hunted, uh, oh, a few years back, 2015, hunted out here, Southwest Desert, killed a 385 bull, but on trail camera, that bull didn't come in until about September 23rd. And then we killed him a few short days after that. And so anyway, don't be afraid of that, even though, and like Adam said, they're being hunted nonstop, but from the archery on through, uh, the first part of October, don't let that, uh, stop you from thinking that muzzler hunt's a good hunt. It's a great hunt. The downside is, uh, from non-resident perspective, very few tags, half the tags go to people at the most points. The other half go on a random draw.

And really I should have said it the other way around. If there's one tag, it goes on a random draw. If there's two, they'll split. And so you can see when you look through our drawing odds within our publication, we have non-resident bonus point odds. And then we also have non-resident random odds as well as the residents. But, uh, anyway, sometimes we say no tag. That means there was only one and it went in a random draw. And you will see random drawing odds, uh, associated with that. So anyway, keep that in mind. It's definitely, uh, plays into the strategy and your application process as well as, uh, deciding if you're going to apply with, uh, you know, on a group application or not, because there just might not be enough tags to even be relevant in the draw. A group of two in Utah for limited entry has to apply for you.

It has at least three permits, uh, to where one of those three is going to go to the max point applicant. The other remaining two could go in there, would go in the random draw and you could be the first name out of the hat and get them. But keep that in mind. Group sizes of three or that, we just generally, non-resident especially, there's a couple of units like a Wasatch or Manti that you might be able to get it, but you really limit yourself. You could on that, but, but overall you get down to those last couple and you're just not really eligible in the draw. I guess we'll just throw this in there. Wyoming is the only state we know of. If they get down to one last tag and they pull your group, no matter how big your group is, uh, obviously as long as it's within, uh, spec, um, they will give you all tags. So they will issue extra tags. And, and that's the one place that it's happened.

I've actually had friends that do it. And, uh, and for fact it did, you know, did it. So anyway, just keep that in mind. They don't do it in the interstate. Utah, you'll get skipped if you get down and you'll never know, but, but it's better if you apply individually if you're down to a low, low tag unit in Utah. Let's talk about something important. Let's talk about some younger. Yeah. Actually, we, we love elk and sheep and everything else too. Yeah. Deer, deer in Utah, again, they, they issue, oh, let's just say 90, 95,000 roughly general season deer tags in the state. And there's two categories of deer applications. They've not merged the point systems in Utah like they have in other states, like a Colorado, just a one point system. They went from a general season to limit, and limited entry and just made it all limited entry.

Utah, you do and can apply for two different, um, applications for deer. The limited entry draw is, is conducted first. So don't worry about that. You, the hunts that you apply for, for a Henry mountains, a book cliffs, Ponce, whatever, those are all conducted first. And so you are considered for that hunt before any of your general season deer, uh, applications are considered. For limited entry deer, they, they issue, I don't know, a thousand or two limited entry tags, you know, one or 2% of all the deer. Across the entire state. Yeah. One or 2% of the total deer tags. That, that creates a huge log jam for applicants. It really does for, for the deer hunts. And it's even worse for non-residents. It's many units like a Fillmore Oak Creek, like a Henry mountains. Most of the seasons, they don't even give a maximum point tag. It's one tag on some of those. And it goes in the random draw.

Same principle as what we talked about with elk. When you're down to these very low tag number numbers within a particular season, you know, like one, like a San Juan elk Ridge, you know, archery deer. There's one. That's going to go random. Odds were 1 in 158. Doesn't mean it's an awesome unit. Just means there's just not very many tags, meaning one, uh, for non-residents. And so Adam's exactly right. Um, basically in Utah, we'll just throw this out there. You know, your first choice counts. They go to the next guy. So, you know, don't, don't think you're going to do your first and second and third. It's your first. That's what counts. They go to the next guy. Uh, as far as, uh, like Adam alluded to with the general, they do have a split system. You get preference points with the general bonus points with the limited entry, limited entry.

We're going to call our good units, our trophy, our really managed units. And our general season is a draw as well with limited tag numbers. But they manage it under a general status, meaning, you know, they're not looking to kill giants. They're just looking to provide opportunity and not kill our, all of our resource. And it is preference. So the guys with one point or two points have preference over those with zero, uh, versus the bonus is more names in the hat. Well, in these general hunts are, they used to be years ago over the counter. Then they started to cap them and they still, there's hundreds or in some cases, thousands of general season tags in, in, in, in, in individual units. So these are not like, these are opportunity hunts. Uh, there are some big deer that come off the general season units, usually people that scout hard, have a bunch of time or just get flat out lucky.

Um, but there, there's something to fill your schedule with a deer hunt. Um, they're probably better right now than they have been 20 plus years. They really have since we went unit by unit, weapon by weapon. And they've been able to control hunters a little bit better. We, it's a natural tendency to manage for quality, even if they're under general status. And that's what Adam's talking about is, is they are, uh, they're breaking it up. We do have some, you know, units that have the early rifle season versus late splitting up the pressure a little bit where 30% at roughly 30% of the tags go on an early rifle. 70% of the available rifle tags within a general unit would be allocated for the, for that latter hunt. And so anyway, um, great opportunities. Like Adam says, uh, there's some giants, some of our, some of the best bucks we see come out of the state, come out of general.

Having said that it's kind of a numbers game. Yeah. When you have 5,000, when you have that many tags, you can kill a couple. And, and so, but you can make it happen if you, if you live here or if you make it kind of your whole program here for your fall hunting plan and, uh, and you can make it happen. The one thing we do like about the general is that's a place you can go kill 160, 170 inch deer. Let's call it 150 to 170, 150, 170 inch type deer. Pretty, pretty handily without burning up your, your special, let's call them special, your limited entry deer points. That's right. And so you can come out here, what? Every other year, every two years. Most non-residents every one to three years. Yeah. Some, some of the residents can go every year if you, if you go on archery or something like that. But yeah, it's a regular, regular deal.

Our licensed application service guys, I'd say 60, 70% of them. We're doing a general points for them just because it gives them an opportunity to come hunt with their family, friends, whatever, and have a low stress, low key going to, you know, put meat in the freezer type hunt. That's right. Last and least, Utah Antelope. And least. Well, it's true. Truck, truck, truck, truck, truck, truck. Truck, truck, truck, truck. Let's talk about these truck chasers. We love Antelope, actually. A lot of fun for everybody. You get to come. I mean, you're going to be successful if you put in a decent amount of effort. You are going to be successful. A lot of fun. Having said that, like Utah just wasn't made for Antelope. We do have quite a few units. We list them out pretty, pretty heavily, even allocated up to four pages to Antelope within this publication of 150 pager.

But anyway, lots of opportunities out there. Non-residents, they get to apply for them and it doesn't keep them from applying for deer and elk. Residents, I mean, if we apply for Antelope, that's our species with the exception of once in a lifetime. So you'll see the resident odds are really good for Antelope because of what Jason just said. Most people, 80, 90% plus, are going to choose deer or elk to apply for as a resident. Non-residents, 10 years ago, when you could add everything, almost everybody just started adding Antelope. The non-resident drying odds in the random especially are terrible. They really are. And it's just simply a product of too many people jumped in at the $10 cheap application fee when they could and consequently poor drying odds. Solid hunts, fun hunts like every Antelope hunt for the most part. Lots of public land on our Utah Antelope units.

So if you like to hunt Antelope, put it in as an afterthought and add on to what you're already thinking. Yeah. All right. One thing did bring us to this story of this archery buffalo hunt, you know, it's bison listed. Bison, buffalo, whatever. Ryan Wilden, good friend of ours, smoked it with a bow. I wanted to kind of talk about that, Adam, a little bit. You've spent a lot of time on the Henrys as I have, but not as much as you up there guiding and whatnot. It was an interesting situation this last year with the drought and pushing everything up high and with the new seasons. And within the Epic Outdoors Hunting Magazine, we cover everything, you know, new stuff and new opportunities. And new opportunities create usually, you know, a lot of trophy potential comes from new opportunities and whatnot. And we'll get into that, you know, more so in New Mexico.

But talk to us a little bit about some of these changes real quick. And then we'll move on. Yeah. Mainly because of the drought and pressure from livestock permittees out on the Henrys. The Utah Wildlife Board received a lot of pressure and some more of the public meetings. And they actually went to the alternate list last summer, fall, and issued about 100 additional permits over what they drew last year in 2018. And that had to add some hunts even into January. So this year, I guess, just kind of as a carryover to that, they've added additional bison opportunities, not just there, but also in the book cliffs. And so you'll see those. I mean, what was once in the past, Jason, one or two bull hunts and maybe a cow hunt, three hunt choices. Yeah, nothing. The table is a page and a half in Utah for bison. It's pretty impressive. And these bison are free range, genetically pure bison.

They were brought from Yellowstone Park in the 1940s to the Henrys. Some of those have then been transplanted to the book cliffs, which have mixed with the Ute Reservation tribe herd on there. And both of them give a great experience of a true hunt. These are not held in with four strands of barbed wire. No. You know, they're not. It's not a private herd. It's nothing like that. This is a legit opportunity. That's a legit hunt and sometimes very difficult. But look through those. They've added some additional hunter's choice. We'll just call those bull hunts. You can shoot a bull or a cow. Some additional cow hunting only opportunities, which give you the same experience. Just, you know, smaller animal, still great meat, but same overall experience. They've also added a couple of archery only opportunities, one for a cow only and the hunter's choice,

which has been around for a couple years. But now that's been moved to September. If you're a bow hunter and have that in your schedule, those are awesome hunts. They're the first hunts on the Henrys. Those bison have not even been bothered all year long. And the archery hunters get the first shot at them. Isn't it crazy? Yeah. Just crazy how things change and whatnot. We've watched it before our very eyes. I drew buffalo when I was 15 years old. That was about 1,500 years ago. So, and, you know, it truly was a special opportunity, and it still is. There's just so much more resource at this point in history. And, of course, we could even do a podcast on that with conservation groups and the things that have happened and the changes we've seen in our short life. But, anyway, great opportunity. There's also been some additions with some archery hunts for sheep and different things.

Of course, we do talk about those within our publication, some of which may or may not be available to non-residents. That's right. Where are we at, buddy? That's kind of a crash course on Utah. So, deadline to apply is March 7th. Then you've got two additional weeks after that, I believe, if you're going to do points only. But if you're wanting to be in the draw this year for a hunt, March 7th is the deadline. So, online application, pretty simple to navigate, shouldn't have too much of a problem. If you do, let us know or look at the application instructions in the magazine. Do we have anything to break this boring podcast up, any kind of stories or anything we just throw out there? What were we on a rant about this morning or yesterday or the day before? Who knows? That comes and goes fast. All right, let's dive in and let's just keep churning.

We did also cover New Mexico within this publication. This is the February issue. Again, you know, to reiterate, we've got the Montana Alert, which is preps everybody, the Nevada Guide Draw Alert, New Mexico, Oregon, and Utah. So, New Mexico is just an awesome state. We actually had the Game and Fish personnel, good friend of ours, Craig Sanchez. We did a podcast with him. Super great guy. He represents the state well. He's a serious hunter. Good friend. Just one of those kind of guys that you wish the entire department was made up of, although they are largely made up of good people. It's just nice to have a real serious hardcore hunter within the department that actually cares. He's a guy that's out photographing, filming, hunting, applying for. He's applying across the West, and so he kind of gets the whole program. You guys, anybody that missed that, go check it out.

We just did it here last week and a half or so. There was a lot of changes with New Mexico. Every four years, they kind of revamp everything. It's just basically, and they'll change some things within those four years, but it just gives them an opportunity to, anything's on the table, everything can be cut or changed or whatever, and this four-year, I would say this four-year, you know, whatever you want to call it, change-up review, you know, may make history as one of the most changes made in a four-year span. It feels like that. There's a lot of new. A lot of them aren't procedural as far as, you know, the draws and the guide draw. We went through that a few years ago, some of the percentage splits and all that. I guess the main thing worth pointing out, Jason, is the hunting license fee, right? Yeah. It's also, I believe, $65 like Utah's.

But in the past, you've been able to check a box when you've applied that says, if I don't draw, I want a refund because I'm not going to New Mexico, send me my $65 back or credit my card, and they do that. Yeah. That's no longer how the game's played down there. That's an investment now you give up at the time of application. $65 for non-resident adults. I think it's $15 for kids, if I remember right. $15, yeah. Under $18. And it's one of those states, unlike, you know, Utah, where for residents at least you have to choose your species, you can apply for everything. And unlike Utah, where you don't have to front the tag fees, you do front them in New Mexico. Of course, Adam's good at finding these 0% credit cards, and I bum his promo code off him to try to get my 0% cards between me, my wife, my 1,400 kids.

It's unbelievable what the expenses will rack up in a state like New Mexico, especially if you do sheep for one or two of them. If you do sheep and an Ibex, you're at $5,000 right there, and then deer and elk's another grand. So, yeah, you could be $5,000 or $6,000 pretty easy down there per person if they all put in for those. So, yeah, it's a serious commitment. At this time, unlike the Wyoming, which we talked about a month or so ago that they're dinging you for 2.5%, they currently aren't doing that in New Mexico. Otherwise, that would sting a lot harder. Well, and when these credit cards, and a lot of you business owners know, when you do refunds, a lot of times you'll get that 2.5% back that a credit card company charges. Wyoming just decided they're going to keep that. With New Mexico, of course, it'll come back to you.

So they do give you a refund on your card, and they don't hold it for too long. If you can find a 0% offer, we definitely recommend that. Even guys that are well off, so to speak, I mean, it's just a lot of money to have cash laying around in your account. So, anyway, make sure you apply. If we forget to tell you, it's a March 20th deadline, and so draw results will be out April 24th is what they print. Sometimes it's a little bit earlier. A couple other changes, the e-tag, kind of a weird thing. Yeah, I'm a paper notch, cut it with my knife over a branch kind of guy. But if you want to get the app and get an e-tag on there that they have an app system and all that, keep it charged. So you can do all that, it basically time stamps the time you kill when you get it. And they know, hey, show me your app or whatever when you get there.

And you've got to have it stamped that, yeah, you punched your tag electronically. I think there's some kind of little authorization code once that happens, and you mark it down and put it on some flagging. And you attach it, and then you put it in the back of the truck, and it flaps on the way in, and it flies away. And who knows what happens. Maybe you go to jail or something and cross state lines. Now you've got a Lacey Act. I don't know. But anyway, great opportunity there in New Mexico. We're going to move on from that. There's just a few other changes here and there. However, some of the most prominent changes, again, with the truck chasers, they did split up all these antelope units and allowed guys that draw the public tags to hunt public land. Imagine that, just like every other state, being able to hunt public land with a public draw tag,

where in the past they've assigned you ranches. And so significant changes there. We'll leave it at that. Let's jump into sheep, Adam. Yeah, sheep, I didn't see a whole lot dramatic this year in terms of sheep. They do have two species of sheep that you can apply for, both Rocky Mountain and Desert Bighorn. They do not charge you the $3,200 application fee for both species. They have two separate hunt codes, the BHS-1204 and 1201 for Rocky and Desert. But they don't charge you twice. That's important to know. You might as well apply for both of them. They charge you for both of them. And within that choice, they'll give you three units to choose. And there's so few in non-resident tags. We say apply for the best ones. That's right. Because there really is only, between the guide draw, the regular draw, one to three total non-resident tags, you know, depending on the species.

So you're not talking about very many permits. They instituted that hard quota a few years back that, you know, we get, you know, 10% or 16% of the total sheep tags now in the state. You know, we can't really get 16% of each unit's quota, so they do it collectively in the state. Pretty much you got it spelled out. I think this year, Jason, is it going to be two and three? Is that what we're looking at? Yeah, it looks like we've got to allocate it up to, you know, two non-resident tags and then three in the guide draw. For deserts. For deserts. And, yeah, with one tag increase. And so it's just the way they split them out. Of course, they've got to give 84% to residents and the rest could possibly go to non-residents, possibly meaning residents and non-residents can go in the guide draw. I don't know why a resident would do that, but they can.

And then with Rockies, they did have a net overall decrease of three tags, and so that's a reverse effect. Now we're cutting to one and two in the guide draw. Yeah, so very tough odds. It used to be that non-residents or residents were in the same hat. And some years we'd draw all or all but one of the sheep tag when I say we're non-residents. And so the residents got that changed. Who cares about the residents anyway? Yeah, that's rightfully so. They got it changed. And we still know and we've drawn. Every year we draw clients in the New Mexico sheep draw. So it happens. They're real people, not just statistics. Great quality for both desert and Rocky Mountain bighorn in New Mexico. Highly recommend doing it if you can swallow the $3,200 on your card. And again, like Jason said earlier, if you wait towards the end of the March application deadline,

you know, the last week or so, they're not going to keep your money as long. If you go early, they're going to keep an extra month and you're going to pay interest on that. But wait until the last week or so, maybe not the last day or two. Sometimes their estate coughs a little bit. It's been known to cough and churn the last day or two. Don't wait until the last day, but maybe the second to last day. Yeah, or even just within the last week. And then they'll only really keep it for four to six weeks, something like that, your money on the card. We love New Mexico elk. There's one of those things. New Mexico. Yeah. It is a Chia Pet year. Yeah. When you water it, it grows. Do you know Chia Pet was probably what? In the late 80s? That really time dates us. We're talking to millennials that don't know what Chia Pet is. Yeah, I see one every once in a while. You do?

In some weird store, and I'm like, wow, they've been holding that inventory for 10 years. Because I'm sure they are. Wasn't it basically sprouts, and all of a sudden sprouts come up through the Chia Pet? It's like a furry little porcupine or whatever. Yeah, exactly. That's what it is. So basically, just for the millennials that are listening. So there we have it. We think it's a Chia Pet year. I think some of the bulls that didn't get killed that may have otherwise would have are another year older. On top of the fact, and this goes for deer too, the moisture is just going to make them grow like Chia Pet. It's going to be off the charts. We're going to have drop tangs and freaking points going everywhere. So, yeah. I think the same thing. We're really optimistic. Some of this winter moisture that we've tracked through Arizona, parts of eastern Arizona especially,

and then New Mexico is really, really good compared to last year. Couldn't be further opposites. So we're anticipating good things. Because the good thing about New Mexico is they don't have a point system. And so what I mean by that is you can treat every year as a new year, be as aggressive or not aggressive. Or don't apply if you're getting married or something bad happened to you. Just chill out. Sit it out. But if it's a year like this and it looks like a good moisture year, maybe ratchet up the aggressiveness. Don't just throw in for the 16 A and D and call it good. I'm swinging for the fence. Be creative. There's going to be some bulls killed in lesser mid-tier units or even average units that are probably pretty good this year. So in a good moisture year, something to consider like that. The one thing about it is the archery hunts are in September. They split them up.

You have three hunt choices in New Mexico. All of which count. They all get looked at. Yeah. So you can put all archery hunts for the second archery hunt, mix and match between first and second, or mix and match three different units. Yeah. Or weapons. Or weapon types. Archery muzzle rifle. Lots of combinations. But the archery hunts in September, you got one from the first to the 14th. The other one is from the 15th to the 24th of September. A little bit shorter on the second hunt. You generally get more bugling activity. But sometimes, Jason, you and I talk about a lot, that early hunt, the first to the 14th, I don't think enough people put priority into that hunt. That's a great hunt. It's actually one we've hunted pretty aggressively. And those bulls, a lot of them will be with the cows. And, you know, they're bugling like crazy. Actually killed a really good bull on that hunt.

As well as the muzzleloader hunts. We've hunted those the October 5th to the 9th, some season. Every unit's different. It's not just set up October 5th to the 9th. Every unit has a muzzleloader hunt then. That's not the case. But we do highlight what we figure are the best archery muzzle. And we give you also good, as well as the rifle, but also good options. There's hundreds of things. We would have 20 or 30 pages on New Mexico Elk alone if we covered everything. However, we do cover the bulk of what we feel like are opportunities for 320-plus bulls. Good bulls. Lots of opportunity. The archery hunts, you know, just the archery hunts, there's a lot of opportunity. Then you get to the firearm hunts. Some units don't have any centerfire seasons at all. It's archery or muzzleloader. 15, 17. Yeah, 13. Units like that.

If you're more of a firearm hunter, keep in mind, muzzleloaders in New Mexico, you can put pretty much anything goes. Sabots, pellets, magnified scopes, all that. So very effective muzzleloaders, especially this day and age. So don't be too intimidated by that. The biggest thing that New Mexico gets away with by offering so many firearm opportunities is they're only short five-day hunts. And that's the, if you could say one downside about if you get a tag, five days can be over and done with really fast. But it spreads out the hunt applicants on different hunt codes, you know, between early October, mid-October, even into November hunts. It spreads out the applicants, gives you so many different hunt combinations, like Jason said a minute ago. Our elk tables seemingly never end in this magazine to give you the options. They don't. They go on and on and on.

You've got so many combinations there to look at. And for the record, we like the five-day seasons, honestly. And that's only with muzzle and rifle. To maintain quality, it's a good thing. Yeah, the archery does give you a 15-day up front and then a September 15th to the 24th. So, you know, it gives you a lot longer there, you know, as far as archery hunters. The muzzle, it is nice. And the rifle, it's nice to have a quit. I either, you know, succeeded or I failed and I can go home and there's a finite date and there's a finite season. I don't have a month-long season to decide I'm going to be a weekend warrior or whatever. You go, you're done, and the next group of hunters come in. And so it's great for the resource. It's good for the hunters. You know, it lets you know exactly when you're going to go. And it spreads out pressure that way.

It just spreads out pressure and allowing for more hunt codes with the same net effect as far as dead animals. That's right. New Mexico also, for a variety of species, has some great youth-only hunts that you can apply for. And elk is really, they've got some awesome opportunities. For the most part, these are the first firearm hunts. In most units. There's a couple exceptions. But for the most part, you're hunting the early part of October. And it ticks me off. I said it to Craig. Why are you giving the kids, and, you know, mobility impaired, I can understand, but the kids, give them more opportunity, not trophy hunters. They get the trophy dates. It's unbelievable what they give the kids. Deer, elk, everything they give the trophy dates. They get set aside hunt codes for sheep, for oryx, for ibex. And so. Antelope. Yeah. Antelope. Everything. Everything. So.

But they are promoting the youth hunting. They are. And that's awesome. But. These elk ones, these elk ones, I couldn't not address them because these October 5th to the 9th dates, those may seem late. But in New Mexico, those are usually still really strong rut hunts. And whether you're a muzzleloader or rifle hunter, you should look at those for your youth. If they're old enough to go, you can start hunting in New Mexico when you get your hunter safety card. And I think we took, I remember I took my boy when he was 9 and yours were like 11 and 12 or something back in the day, hunting deer that one time. They were. That was a terrible hunt. They were little. I mean, they were all little. I think it was, well, two of them, one of your boys and one of mine, maybe their first deer hunt. I can't remember. Yeah. But anyway, it gives you opportunity.

If your kids are old enough to go hunting and aren't 12 like most of the western states with the exception of Arizona and Idaho, which are 10, yeah, you might look at New Mexico. Again, no point system. They're not late to the party. And they have youth holding the opportunity. That's right. As long as you have a hunter ed card, you can apply and hunt in that state. So it's awesome. I had a 9-year-old boy killed his first deer there, Colton. And then Sean killed his first big game animal, which was an elk with a muzzleloader. And he would have killed like a 370 bull. He was on unit 15. And, you know, it was one of those Remingtons that had the bolt. The bolt wasn't all the way down, but it still went off. And so because it wasn't all the way down, it appeared that that 30-second inch or 16. Dented the primer. Yeah, dented the primer, but didn't hammer the primer.

And anyway, he still ended up killing a bull. But just one of those great opportunity states for everybody, youth. They have mobility impaired. That's one. And, you know, we didn't cover that in this particular publication. We do cover it in writing, but not in table format. But there are mobility impaired options for guys that qualify. You can get with New Mexico, figure out how to get a card. And then there's some seasons that are awesome for guys that are mobility impaired. So let's jump right into deer and crush this thing. As far as deer, you know, it's a good state for deer. It's not a great state for deer. They do have some great, a few great seasons and opportunities in units. 2C, 5B, to name a couple of them. They have a new option there on the white sands. They're going to give five tags. If a non-resident wants to get that, you'd be going in the guide pool.

There won't be a tag given in the regular pool. The 2B has traditionally had some big deer. They just don't have a lot of big deer right now. They're given too many tags. This year they've got a youth season again. Those dreaded youth. You kids killing me right now. But anyway, Rifle Hunt, they're at the end of November with 150 tags. And that season used to be in October with 150 tags. So they made it better with the migration. And everything comes in and left the tag numbers the same. And you just don't manage quality that way. And I don't know if they knew they were paying attention to that necessarily. Not always is it game and fish that makes those decisions. There's commissions that make decisions. That's right. So I guess to boil it down, deer, if you're an elite trophy mule deer hunter, they're not deep in hunt options.

Northwestern New Mexico has got a few units, two and five most notably, to really where you're likely to get it done. Around the state, big deer can just kind of happen, pop up, you know, anywhere. Southeast, northeast, southwest, wherever. They do also have coos deer opportunities, primarily over towards the Arizona border and some of the units like 23, 27, 24, most notably probably. If you want to put a couple of mule deer options and then put a coos deer option as your third choice, that's just fine. It's just deer hunting codes. And deer hunting codes, you get three of them as well, just like the others we've talked about. I think the coos deer get overlooked a little bit. We do see guys pulling out some big deer every single year. Arizona definitely takes the cake, so to speak, and also the limelight when it comes to coos deer.

And so anyway, great, great opportunity, great drawing odds, things like that. So definitely look into that. I do want to, before I move on, just let you know that there are some changes. There's an additional 5B archery for mule deer, 5B muzzle. It's never happened before. And with this, we don't know what the drawing odds will be. Tags are very limited. However, we just want to say that a lot of changes with elk as well. New seasons and units that have never seen these kind of seasons. Rifle hunt in Unit 18. Things like that for elk. And so we have highlighted that in the publication. You can get our publication, Epic Outdoors. Go to epicoutdoors.com and get signed up, and we'll get a magazine out to you. Of course, Adam and I are here to consult all the time. Changes equal big animals in a lot of cases, and New Mexico is no exception.

Some of the better, we're going to see animals come out of New Mexico. It's going to be amazing, is Adam and I's prediction, in a large part because of the changes. Got some changes, and then you've got the water on top of it. Things are just, they're ripe this year. It feels like it. Feels good. Time to get a tag. Let's see. Antelope. We covered that real quick. Yeah. We kind of did cover that. Give them truck chasers enough time already. We did kind of cover that. Let's maybe go into some of the exotics. We'll call them that. It's close to Texas. Let's get exotic here in New Mexico. Okay. Run with it, Bronson. Run with it.

Let's talk about Ibex in New Mexico. They do have a once-in-a-lifetime rifle. Of course, that's November 15th to the 29th, meaning once-in-a-lifetime. If you draw it, you're going to kill one in your life. And there's great kill rates on that. You're talking between 78% and 90% kill on that. Great opportunity. Very steep, rugged, nasty country. Doesn't have a lot of giants in there like it used to have, but still plenty of good animals. That's right. These are the Bezer Ibex that were native over in Turkey, and they were introduced down in southwestern New Mexico. And that rifle hunt is the only once-in-a-lifetime hunt. And they do have a muzzleloader hunt that follows that a little bit later in December 6th to the 20th. Still very tough to draw. We tell a lot of people the Ibex are not quite as hard to draw as sheep, but they're sheep-like odds.

So, you know, one in two to six hunter, depending on, you know, if you're playing a regular or the guide draw. If you really fill up to a challenge, they do have a couple of archery hunts. One in October and one in January. How big a boy are you? That's right. Because those hunts basically run between 4% and 16% kill. And guys, some guys, they won't admit it, but they're shooting 125 yards on a freaking 20, 30-degree angle. Something crazy. Yeah, just getting, you know, instead of lead in the air, they're throwing aluminum and carbon. And anything else they can find by the time their quiver is empty. So it's one of those things. It's a tough hunt. Very, very difficult. It's tough. But a great experience. Jason and I would love to have them. We generally apply for them every year just because they're unique and whatnot. And, you know, that's it on that. Very tough to draw.

They do have a youth hunt for those as well. A little bit better odds. Still pretty tough for the youth. And you've got to front the tag fees. You do got to front. It's above $1,600 for a non-resident. So Barbary sheep, that's another one of those exotic species that New Mexico has throughout a lot of the state, but most prevalent down in the southeast corners of the state. They do have some units there. Unit, I guess, 29, 30. Those are probably the most notable heavy public land units that you do issue draw tags on. They're going to have multiple shorter seasons within those. Where in the past they've drawn one big, long, month-long season, I believe, Jason. Definitely spread them out. Definitely spread them out. I know that even that October season, they're rutting there in October. It should be good from everything I hear. So we're kind of excited about that.

Kind of spreads out the pressure a little bit. But having said that, there's a lot of over-the-counter type tags. They're spread throughout the state. Private land. Adam, you've killed one on private. Tell us about that. Yeah, I went down there. They issue tags in units with predominantly private land. You can buy one over-the-counter. And then I just worked out a deal on a ranch down there and went down there on a three-day weekend, killed a nice ram and came home. Fed the family. Speaking of that, tell us about the meat. There were some people down there that wanted it, and I signed the donation slip fast. I mean, and I gave it to them. And why, though? Tell us why. I didn't taste it, but I was told. Javelina-like. Yeah, I don't know about that musky, gamey, but tough and not the most desirable, unlike the Oryx. The Oryx is amazing, yeah.

And we've had a lot of members that have drawn that, including my dad, went out there and smoked a good bull. Great opportunity. They've even changed some things up, added some things, increased the tag numbers. Quality experiences. He says, you know, if you reference that podcast I did there with Craig Sanchez, he talked about it a little bit. It's kind of known as that, you know, we start at the gate and it's all dust and rubber, you know, nonstop, trying to, you know, drive as fast as you can to get to the Oryx. And he says, once, you know, that initial 20, 30 minutes or a few hours is over, you actually have a very high-quality experience. Those are short dates, very short season dates, meaning, you know, three-day type hunts, and you can go out there and get the job done. Very high kill rates and great quality meat. I assume it's very similar to, you know, the French eating horse.

They love it. It's a delicacy. Huh? Huh? I don't know where that assumption came from. Well, they're horse-like. They're like, but I would dare say these are better eaten than horse, but I've never eaten horse. All right. Or burl. Burl? No. No. All right. All right. Anyway, great opportunity there. So definitely be applying on there. We covered those in our publication. I guess that moves us to Oregon. Your favorite state. Favorite state. Always apply for Oregon. In fact, if none of you have ever heard before, Adam and I have drawn sheep tags in Oregon. We've only mentioned that 1,400 times. I'd like to know the count of how many times we've had to say that. Well, and here's why. Because the only reason is why. It's the only thing, glimmer of hope, that we usually tell people, especially now that they charge $167 for a non-resident hunting license to apply.

Back when we drew, I think it was like $70. I know. $75. It was a little bit more to swallow, easier to swallow. But when we talk about it and the fact that there's no point system for the goats and the sheep, some people like that option. And then they ask you, well, what are the odds like? Well, one in two to 500, you know, for the most part. It's a $175 raffle ticket. That's right. Okay? For sure. And you're looking at, you know, one in 300 type drawing odds. Mine was one in 400. Again, largely why we talk about it is people often ask about it. And, of course, we tout that you should be applying in every western state for the rest of your life to try to get the tags you deserve. Having said that, Oregon's one of those you've got to look at your pocketbook and really decide, as well as your wife and family budget and everything else that may constrict you,

that you definitely need to look at, you know, is it worth it for you? And, you know, considering the limited quality game in other species. Yes. Yes. Or the opportunity to get a tag. Unlike Utah, where it's 65 and then 10 for every species and you've got some incredible quality if you were to draw. The way Oregon does their deer and elk and their antelope draw with giving, you know, either 5% or 3% of their tags to non-residents. And unlike Utah and Arizona, where the first tags go randomly, it's not that way in Oregon. Oh, 75-25 split. Yeah. And they go, the first tags go in the preference point draw. So there's a lot of units. And you'll notice this in our elk table and our deer table. This tag, expect a tag not available this year. No draw tag in 2019. No draw tag. Zero. But we still got to cover it because guys will say, well, why didn't you cover it?

Well, you know, so we do cover it. And so when it says no draw tag in 2019, you can expect there is one in 2020. 2020, they flop that every other year available to the outfitters versus to sell to us. Yep. Or a maximum point. Non-residents to apply and draw for free. So kind of interesting. It's a little bit hard, you know, to stomach. The outfitter. Yeah. And we love the outfitters there. But give outfitter tags to sell to us versus letting us apply in the draw. And I don't know. What do you say? Not everything's fair in life. How about that? It's similar to wilderness hunting in Wyoming or whatever where you have to hire a guy. There's just some things you just feel aren't fair. And anybody wants to take on that fight, we're all behind you. Except for when it comes to a pocketbook. It's going to take a lot of cash. All right.

So having said that, we have hunted deer in multiple different units, mostly back in the day. I've been on Juniper and a few of these. Malheur and Beulah and all kinds of Steens. There are a few quality deer hunts. People will say that we bash Oregon and yet they kill giants. And they do. And if you do live up there, you can spend a lot of time just like on our general here in Utah. Make it happen. 100% agree with you. You can make it happen. The genetics are unbelievable. They just don't. The numbers game is kind of like Utah general. You get 95,000 hunters a field. And there's going to be, odds are the biggest deer in the state are probably going to come from that pool versus the 1,000 limited entry guys. Yeah.

The downside, well, you know, and with the elk, we have a problem with like spike hunters being just hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of tags being issued during the, what we would call the trophy season. And so you just deal with a lot of pressure. Adam, you talked to a guy the other day, the hunted sled springs. What did he tell you? Pressure was unbelievable. He did kill a 300 inch plus bull on his own and on the later rifle hunt. And, but yeah, the spike hunters and all that a field, it was people everywhere. He said, I don't think I would do that again. No, I don't think I would. But, but it goes back to what are your options? If you really, if you're going to apply and you're going to apply for sheep and goat, cause there's no points and you're going to be building points for deer and elk. And at some point you have 15 or 20 of those. It's like, what are you going to use them on?

You could use them on one of those hunts we just talked about. And they're not going to be clean, easy. You're all by yourself. The archery are a little bit different, but, but even then you're, a lot of times you're going for the one tag that year to a non-resident one. And so it's not justifiable to start applying there for deer, elk and antelope. Having said that and your points don't purge, right? And so I got points. I got points. I mean, Adam, I got a significant point number, very similar to my Colorado antelope points. Okay. Which we've all talked about. And so, uh, anyway, kind of funny. Well, last year I'm like, ah, I'm going to apply back into that state, especially. And guess why? Because of the premium tags. These premium months. Tell us about those. So the premium hunts are an additional application for eight bucks. You can apply for those.

Just another way to extort money out of us. I get it. And they won. I not only applied for the $8, I also had to buy the hunting license. Like a mini governor tag, August 1st to November 30th within individual units. Yeah. And you can only put in for one of them. Yeah. Well, your first choice counts, right? No, no other choices count. So same thing. So now, since I've got the hunting license and I apply for the premium deer, well, geez, I might as well be doing antelope. Oh, by the way, I might as well add that elk point. And pretty soon they've got me. $250. And I'm the guy telling everybody not to do it. So I don't know what to say. They can draw you in. The premium tags are like, well, we won't go there. They're alluring. So how's that? You were going back to the next exotics. No. Oh, all right. No. Anyway, so there we are. We're going to talk about Oregon until the day we die.

We work with outfitters in each of these western states. If there's anybody you want to visit with or you've got enough points to draw, please call us. We'll be happy to help you. We did have a guy draw antelope. Killed a great big buck. That Tom Zimmerman, he's on page 136 of our magazine, went with our outfitter, had a great hunt. Killed a giant. Killed a great buck. So anyway, a lot of opportunities there in Oregon. And just one of those that, again, we're going to be covering that state. When we get done talking about Oregon, you're still going to be confused and you're still not going to have a decision whether you should spend the money or not. But it's all in the magazine. And they do have unique stuff. They do have some black tail stuff, which you don't need to draw. There are some units you have to draw. I went up there. And not only did I go once, I went twice. That's right.

Ask me how I did. Okay. Do you still need a black tail? Another one of those tags I choked on. I mean, it was terrible. Gas receipts. I mean, I choked on a couple grand. They got Columbia white tailed there, which are unique to Oregon as well. If you want to apply for those, the odds, you'll probably never draw them unless you have a bunch of points built up for them. But if you want to just buy a hunt, they do give landowner tags. We work with outfitters there. Same with the black tail. Same with the Roosevelt elk. They got Rocky Mountain elk in the northeast corner, which are primarily the units we cover heavily because they take the bulk of the points to draw. But if you want to go to western Oregon along the coast and hunt Roosevelt, they have a few dryers. But you can also hunt them with landowner or over-the-counter tags and different weapon tags.

If you want to go get lost in the thick forest and be rained on 24-7, do the Roosevelt. All right. I don't know. We've given that plenty of airtime there in Oregon. We love you, hate you, and otherwise have to talk about you every year. Thanks for my sheep. And Jason. Yeah, my sheep too. In fact, that's California bighorns, huh? Now we've technically got Rockies. Let's get a Rocky and we'll call it a day. Call it a day. Anyway. So, yeah, we do appreciate everybody that listens to this. We talk a million miles an hour. We get it. We understand it. I've had a monster. Adam had a monster and a Mountain Dew. And it's stuff that we talk about every day, all day long. There's no notes. There's no agenda. We have no outline. We just sit down and crush it because this is all we do full time. So, anyway, we are headed out today. In fact, we're going to be headed out to the Wild Sheep Convention.

We encourage everybody to support these conservation organizations. We love the wild sheep and everything they do for sheep. And it's another reason to get together and visit with other hunters that are like-minded. We're going to be headed, talking about elk, deer, and other important species, including sheep. That's right. And like we said earlier, we'll be going to the Western Expo next week. So, if you're calling in, and bear that in mind, we'll be back the week after that. But it's just a busy time of year. We like to see and visit with a lot of you guys at these conventions. So, hope to see you there. One more plug, I guess. If you listen to these podcasts and you're not a member of Epic Outdoors and you want more information than what we just rattled through off the top of our head here in a 35, 45, I don't know, hour, Chris, podcast, whatever it's been. One hour, good. All right.

Jeez. All right. We're going to wrap this up. But go to epicoutdoors.com. If you join, by the end of February, you'll be entered into our Doll Sheep Hunt giveaway. We're going to be drawing that just the first couple days in March. So, you've only got another couple of weeks to be entered in for the Doll Sheep Hunt giveaway with Litson Guide Service there. Great outfit. Fully paid for by Epic Outdoors for just renewing or joining our service. Also, within our membership drive, we're going to give away six other hunts. And so, it's a great opportunity. The drawing odds are going to be phenomenal. It's been fairly quiet. It's not something we push as, you know, the main crux of our business. However, we do run membership drives. It's smart business. And, of course, we want to get the word out that we are cranking and who we are and what we're doing.

And so, anyway, tell us a little more about those. Well, if you want to purchase tickets for those, the Doll Sheep Hunt, the only way to enter is to either renew or join membership. If you want to refer somebody to our service and they join, you can receive a ticket for one of the hunt giveaways that we're going to give away. Or you can purchase tickets away for these other six hunts. Those hunts are a British Columbia Stone Sheep Hunt this August, first hunt, 2019. Alaska Brown Bear Hunt in the spring of 2020. Nevada Unit Wide 231 Guided Mule Deer Hunt with 8 Mile Outfitters. New Mexico Unit 15 Archery Elk Hunt with Landowner Archery Elk Landowner Voucher there. New Mexico Private Land Antelope Hunt for, you know, 85-inch plus nine bucks. Giants. Big bucks. Giants. Or a Colorado Mountain Lion Hunt. You've got those six additional hunts there.

You can either purchase tickets or refer members to our service that join and pick which entry you want to be in for those hunts as well. And I might say that Colorado Mountain Lion Hunt's no slouch of a hunt. The Black Timber Outfitters are great guys and they're hunting big cats. So, anyway, with that, and then also we do, you know, yeah, well, before we leave that, you can join and also purchase tickets online at epicoutdoors.com. You know, we've got a mail-in entry form. Well, first ten pages of the publication. Or you can call us at 435-263-0777. One last thing. It is complicated to apply in the states. And so anybody that wants us to do it for you, it's similar to having a tax accountant. Do your taxes. You're still liable for all the tag fees and whatnot. But we will do the work for you. Keep track of your points and also choose units if necessary.

You can be as involved as you want to be. You might even have units that you want to tell us to apply for in hunts, and we deal with that all the time. Or a lot of guys just tell us for us to choose and get creative, and we do that as well. It's a lot of fun. You know, when our guys draw, it's like Adam and I draw, and we're excited to check the results, and we get to check them hundreds and hundreds of times. So, anyway, it's kind of fun. But, all right, Bronson, I'm about tired of this. Do it. Good luck. All right. Good luck to you guys. Draw tags. Let us know about it. Thanks, everybody.