EP:125 Q&A Part 2 Listener Questions Answered by The Epic Crew

He's got at least a couple cheaters out each side and looks like a 30 inch frame. I'm like, oh. You'll generally do better. You'll learn more country. You'll learn where deer tend to move as hunting pressure increases. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Well, first off, let's thank Under Armour for sponsoring this podcast. Of course, they sponsor all our podcasts here in Southern Utah. Finally got some sunny weather. Looks like it might be 80 degrees this next week. Of course, it's been 60 up in Anchorage. I'm headed up there soon. And it's been warmer in Anchorage than down here. Can you believe that? Bronson, do you want to talk to us about the latest hunt that you've been on? And a lot of fun that you've had. Chasing some bears. When I say chasing, I should say looking for or glassing for bears. Chasing. It's been a tough bear hunt for everybody, even up in Idaho. Well, cold. I think they've been half in, half out of the ground, denning up. I mean, it's been a crazy, unprecedented winter and spring here in Southern Utah.

We're not as old as some, but I know in my lifetime I've not seen one that just continually gets wave after wave of cold, rainy, snowy weather on top of a big winter. Most of the places we're looking at it today were 175 to 275% of normal. Yeah, plus. 600%. We've got our graph. John changed the graph to show like 500 and greater. Yeah, because one. 600 and greater. Percent. Because one unit didn't register and we had to up the top ceiling, right? Of course, the red Phoenix. Just north of Phoenix. You think about that. That is unreal. I mean. So anyway. It was snowing at my house on Monday. Yeah. Come on. You don't live very far from our houses. No. Yeah, but there's something across the valley there that changes, I'm pretty sure. No. It was. It snowed. I told Bronson it's snowing. Oh, it snowed on us over there a couple times. It was crazy.

Usually late May, end of May, you're hunting shade during the afternoon to glass bears from because it's, you know, it's 80 degrees maybe. Nowhere near that right now. I want to talk about this comment you made, Adam, about we're not as old as some, but I wanted to add on to that we're older than most because we've got people asking us for younger participants on the podcast. Yeah, and that, I don't know how to take that. Wait, what does that mean? People that they assimilate with. I don't know how to take that. Does that mean they think we're over the hill and we're sick of listening to you guys? 100%. I mean. Oh, yeah. That's the way I took it. At 45, and Jeff, are you 40 hit? Not yet. Just about. I'm closing in on it. I'm closing in. I'm closing in. All right. Chris, we know your ways to go from there, but that hurts. It was offensive. Chris is our connection to the younger generation.

I mean, because we think he's the catcher. It was a nice request. Very respectful. It said, you know, I just like to listen to people that we understand a little better. That's right. Yeah. You know, our vocabulary is, you know, we do use probably a different kind of vocabulary. We're using six and a half grade vocabulary. Like talking about glassing. Okay. Glassing. Now, that can be a relative term. Right, Chris? No. Huh? No, I'm pretty sure most guys listening to this particular podcast probably know what that is. I don't know. But not everybody. We had some guys, you know, kind of wonder about what we mean when we talk about glassing. And what we mean is looking through your binoculars. Covering the country. Right? Yeah. And so, kind of talking about covering the numbers. Covering the numbers. And what does that mean? I have a lot of questions about that.

What does covering the numbers mean? Let's dive in. All right. So. We think, Don't drama. We're moving on. We threw out a Toby Keith saying. Okay. We did? I thought you said. Oh, not as young as I once was. Yep. But I'm not as good. But I'm not as good. Well, basically. Not as good as I once was, but. But I'm as good once as I ever was. As good as I ever was. One time.

And the other thing today, we could have a Red Solo Cup tribute today, too. You're having a Red Solo Cup with a Monster and a Mountain Dew mix. Well, Carter. Jason's worried about Tooth and Hamel. Well, we split one. Chew it on some more tea. We split one, and I needed a Solo Cup. He kept the can. How's that? Then I added Mountain Dew to mine. Something about a can. You know, some days just get through the day. You just get it in your gut. I'm trying to wean myself off of it. And so, anyway. They say the Monster is way more potent in Canada than out in the States. We have heard that. What? Way more. Oh, yeah. Yeah, some bear hunters up there told us that. Oh, yeah. He said, look at the labels. It's insane. Well, just go double check up there. And, you know, we all know Canadians are all healthy. Jen Rivett says, dude, you look on the back, it says, you know, like vitamin B6.

R says 100%, okay? Theirs is 600%. B12, 600%. She's like, dude, we grow fingernails up here. Fingernails and hair grows like crazy when they drink Monsters like they drink them. They buy them by the case, yeah. Cases and pallets. So, anyway, they got to thank Monster for all their bear success up there. And we're going to move on. So, let's talk about covering the numbers. We're going to jump down here. There's a question about what do you mean by covering the numbers? Where's the question? Throw it out there. Bottom of the page. Let's see. Yeah. Jason talks about covering the numbers a lot on rut-type deer hunts. Does he mean driving and glassing? Driving glassing. Driving glassing. Or checking different remote basins. Yes, yes, yes. All of that. Cover the numbers. Get them as fast as you can. If you're going to cover the numbers. If that's by roads. I don't care how it is. Yep, yep.

Cover the numbers. Sooner or later, there'll be a big deer standing with a doe, dumb, ready to. Yep. If you see 100 bucks, you got X percent chance of seeing a big deer. If you cover 1,000 bucks, you got X percent chance of seeing a big deer. Have you ever covered 1,000 bucks on a hunt, Jason? I don't know about 1,000. I mean, that was a very, very high number to pull out of your hat. The only 1,000 I can think of is there was a member that hunted an antelope unit in Wyoming, and he says, we saw 1,000 different bucks. And I'm thinking, okay, A, how do you know they were different? Because animal, I mean, there's no droppers. No droppers and cheaters. Okay, okay. B, bullshit. Which is. But that does mean there was a lot, and they do. They have the most tags in the state, yada, yada, yada. Anyway, it's nice to hear back there. And you know what Jason's excited about?

Like, so I went hunting up with Jason in Idaho. The first time we went up there, probably the first time I hunted Idaho with you, and Jason, I mean, he all but grabbed me by the collar and stared me in the eye, shaking me, saying, Jeff, don't stare at deer. Move on. If he's not a giant, move. Well, Jeff was glassing off his window, which is great, right? That's what I want to do. And I'm looking at good bucks. Yeah, and he's like, what do you got? 28, 30-inch bucks. He's phone scoping a 175 buck with a little cheater. Oh, I mean, he's got an inkling. And then I'm like, Jason, maybe we're out of thought. No, it's more like this. Quit fucking at this moment. I said, what do you got? And he goes, dude, I'm looking at about 180-inch. I'm like, awesome, awesome. Well, let me know if you see a big one, you know? And he goes, and so pretty soon I call him back. I call him up. What's going on?

He answers the phone, and I go, what are you doing? And he goes, well, you know, I'm looking at this buck. And I go, which buck? Like, well, the buck I told you about. I'm like, what? That was an hour and a half ago. Dude. I said, OK, let me just explain something to you. You could have seen another 15 bucks. You might have cost us a giant. Instead, we're going to let that guy live. You have to move. It's true. If it's not the deer, you're going to know. It's true. It's true. If it's the right deer, you're going to know it. Until then, drive. Drive. Drive and glass. Look at more deer. Look at more deer. And meanwhile, I see Jason's truck. It's just dust heading in the distance. And then all of a sudden, I get the phone call. I just saw a buck. Yeah. And when he says that, that means. Saw a big deer. Yeah. He's like. I think he's got like.

I only got a chance to see him going over the hill. He's got at least a couple cheaters out each side. It looks like a 30 inch frame. I'm like, oh. Yeah. Well. It's a big deer. I did figure out he's got a baseline guard, Jason. This one over here. It's so true. And then, Jeff, you're still. I don't know what you were doing. Screwing around. And I'm like. I'm looking at this deer. Videoing this deer. And at that point, I just. I leave the truck. I get him on the phone. I said, Jeff, drive to my truck. Get in the door. Shut it softly. And the scope is on the deer. I'm walking. Yes. I'm just honking my guts out. Remember? Yeah. By the time I got over there, you were already gone. You're like, oh, yeah. Well, you know, this is a pretty good deer. Oh, yeah. He's a nice deer. I got that whole. I think we've covered that. Covering the numbers means just that. Cover and move on. And it's fine.

Remote basins are fine. Glean and move. Glean and move. Glean and move. Yeah. Hit it. Hard as you can hit it. Sometimes. Those are on. Whatever. Not for every hunt. Not for every hunt. For sure. Some hunts, you're going to be lucky to see. You see a 180 buck during a hunt, Jeff. And even if that's not what you want, maybe the only 180 buck you'll see the whole hunt. You guys covered the numbers. Let's talk about that. Up in Wyoming. You were covering the numbers hard. Oh, yeah. That's true. And Jeff was watching 145-inch deer out the window. He's like, dude, they were coming up licking my tires. At times. No, it was wild. It was wild. We nicknamed the hunt Wild Kingdom. Yes. Any of you guys remember when I was a kid? Okay. How long ago was that? Because we're talking to millennials. When I was a kid. These guys have no idea. Remember the Mutual of Omaha Wild Kingdom?

It was on PBS or whatever. That was the show. You'd watch cheetahs run down stuff. It was awesome. That's what we had back then. Was this on Hulu or? This is on PBS. Yes. Okay. Funny. If you don't know what that is. Sorry. We don't relate. Keep going. Keep going. So, yeah. I don't know. That was it. Well, no. I mean, you guys were calling it. It was Wild Kingdom. We had sheep. We had deer out the Wazoo Antelope. We had white tails and mule deer. We had elk everywhere. Giant herds of elk. Man, I videoed one group of. Well, in the same, the elk herd was moving around the herd of sheep. Like, there's big horns on the mountain. And I've got a video around. Like, the elk were all around. Sheep mixed with elk. It was wild. So, I have a question about this hunt. Wolves, moose. I'll have those two. So, but having said that, did you have a hard time, Adam, getting Jeff to engage in covering

the numbers? No. I'd been whipped. I've been bull whipped by Jason Carter for a while. And you were getting Adam going on covering the numbers. And we were actually in a lesser unit, I would say, than the unit you guys were in Idaho. So, it was plain for Jeff to see where we were here in Wyoming. Yeah, I've got to move on. This is just box. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, anyway. All right. And there was a few. I've had a few texts since that day. Well, we were up against the deadline, too. We were up against. We only had like three days to hunt. Right. It ended at the end of October. We were in a hurry. Yeah. All right. We covered the numbers on that one. Let's do an etiquette question since we're all concerned about etiquette. Hey, guys. What's the etiquette with scouting units during open hunting seasons? For example, I know I'm going to draw Unidex next season.

I'm thinking of scouting it this open season to work out rutting patterns, behaviors, and areas. Is it frowned upon to be in a unit without a tag and interacting with the animals while other guys are hunting? Or scouting for a rifle tag when it's open archery season, as another example? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on or if there are some unwritten rules of etiquette. I would say observe. Don't interact with the animals. Yeah. Don't go walking into the wallow. I probably would avoid that. You know what I mean? Yes. Blowing up an archery hunt. That's not a big deal. I'm sitting this wallow right here. Setting up ground blinds and glunking and triple chuckling and, you know, and screaming, screaming at every bugle. I mean, don't start playing with the elk, bugle and bulls. No, don't do that. If you got to make sure. Yeah.

Those are probably some of the basics there, but it happens a lot. Utah. Oh, go to the Henry's. Yeah. Henry's, the archery muzzleloader. Oh, yeah. Yeah. When I had my tag down there, three-fourths of the people I saw met on the mountain hiking didn't have a tag. They were just there because they had one in the past. How about on my hunt? Opening day. Yeah. Right. We were trying to kill the muzzleloader guys. Hey, I wonder who's hunting this buck. Yes. Oh, there's somebody here hunting this buck. We probably have a buck. And that's okay as long as they keep on moving. Yeah. You know what I mean? When they start screwing with you, it gets to be a problem. I did. You know, I did go check out. I was going to use my max points there in Arizona. And I went down there to 12A West and went on the late. You know what I mean? During the hunt. Just driving roads. Opening day.

You got 200-inch bucks on the tailgates. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I saw a 206 buck that got smoked. But, you know, and I was glass. That's how I met Kevin Call first time out there in the middle of nowhere. Just kind of cool. There was trucks and people everywhere. It was fun. I mean, people, we get to visit and talk. But you didn't do anything but drive the roads and glass from there. Because at the time, I mean, there's still people 10, 12 years later that are still 10 to 15 years or 20 years from drawing 13B. Yeah. So you're looking for, I want to hunt a big deer. But I might want to go somewhere different than the strip. 13B. You know, so what's this 12A West got? But just looking at it in any way. And then I realized, yeah, I'd kill a 200-incher here, you know, I felt like, at that particular time in history. Yeah. So there is a lot to be said. We've all done that at times.

Go to a unit during your season. I don't think it's a bad idea. No. I think it's a good idea. Just don't interfere. But there is etiquette. Yeah. Cover the numbers type approach. That's right. Don't stray too far from roads. Don't get out hoofing too much. I glassed for a couple guys even. Like, what's the difference? You know what I mean? No big deal. But it's awesome to see it during the season. I mean, it is. It gives you all the confidence in the world. You need to know. Same thing with Colorado. I mean, what are you going to add? You got over-the-counter elk hunters, for the most part, second and third season. You got doe hunters. And you got hundreds, usually, hundreds of deer hunters. And what it might do is you might get there and you might be like, I don't want to burn 15 points on this. No, thank you. You might just see that and realize the deer tags is one thing.

The over-the-counter elk tags is another thing. And you're like, I'm chopping out. Major factor. Yep. Right. It's a major factor. But if you're out there trying to dump coyotes and predator calling in between glass and deer and whatnot, I mean, come on. Grouse during the midday. Yeah. I mean, you're dumping a pot gut or something. But I mean, it's just not going to work, you know. You know. Chisler. Chisler, pot gut. I don't. You know, there's a lot of people right now wondering, what are they? A pot gut? Does that mean a fat guy on a four-wheeler? What does that mean? Is that a northern Utah thing? A chisler? I don't know what chisler is. Chisler is southern Utah. Pot gut is northern Utah. I've called them pot guts. You call them, so obviously an eastern Utah thing too. Just little marmots and chisler. You know, little ground rats.

Except for southwestern Utah, that can get you in federal prison. Yeah. Yes, it could. Okay, let's stop that. So anyway, having said that, we do have a predicted strain of prairie dog here in southwestern Utah. So that's what we're talking about. Is it the black tail? It's like the black tail. I don't know. It's just called the Utah prairie dog. Anyway, so yeah. Anyway, don't go out and screw it, guys. Just go observe. Don't interact. You know, maybe interact with some people here and there. But be respectful. Help them glass. Who cares? Just go and see what you're up against. Yep. Exactly. Helps a lot. All right. Let's move on. Let's see. Talk about how to properly set up kids for success in the current point schemes among the different states. I have a nine-year-old that loves to hunt and want to be totally prepared.

I'm 35 years old and at times seem too late at the game to fully capitalize on great tags. We've proven that not to be true. There's plenty of opportunities for kids. You're young enough to. Through more tags than we can stand. There are some that feel daunting. Some states. There are. No question. But you just have to block them out and either don't apply for them or change your mentality in some of those states. Like look at Colorado and Wyoming, for instance. Are we talking Montana sheep? I get it. And now if we're talking about deer in Wyoming or elk, even elk in Wyoming? Yeah. No. Go for it. I get it. 10 bucks to pop. You're going to do it. Deer in Colorado. Most kids, especially when they're right out of the gate, 10 or 12, what do they want? They just want to go on a successful hunt. And we want to try to squeeze every bit of maybe quality or trophy potential out of some

of the tags we get because obviously we've hunted longer than them, but we got to just, you know, just get them on hunts. For example, this year, Jeff, you're taking your kids to Wyoming elk deer and antelope potentially. Yep. For sure antelope. And I'm taking my kids to Wyoming. This year is Wyoming. Last year we did Wyoming elk for Colton, of course. And then, you know, Sean had tags. It felt like everywhere, you know, Colton had an antelope tag here. Joe's lucky. You know, Ashley had Idaho. Who else? What other kids had what tags? I mean, there was a brother. Oh, Nevada. Yeah. My daughter had an Idaho antelope. My kid, they both had Utah. Then my boy had a Lake Coos in Arizona. I mean, we were in all the states. There's a lot of fun. There's a lot of fun. Sean had New Mexico. And it's cheap. New Mexico archery deer.

I mean, it's comparatively, it is so much cheaper than you than an adult applying and building points. It's good to get those kids rolling. Applied my kid in Idaho. We're talking a $31, you know, mentoring hunting license and then a $14.75 application fee. And that's something coming up. This guy's got a nine-year-old. He should think about getting them tied up. Because we've experienced this. We all have. We've hunted with kids. How hard is it to get them on a deer or on it? Well, in Idaho, it's 10, right? You can start in 10. Idaho and New Mexico. We went down there. New Mexico noise limit. My boy killed his first buck down there when he was nine. We went down there. Jason, we picked a crappy unit. It was terrible. For our boys. 23, do not go to 23. We saw one buck to shoot. We shot a spike. Okay. One was a spike by two. And you have to have a forked antler deer. Yeah.

The other one we saw, because you were with your boys, we saw like a three-point driving into the unit. But it was thicker than crap. The day before the hunt or something like that. Remember, along the highway, it was so thick. Yeah. There's no way we can relocate him. No. That was a day or two before the hunt anyway. Yeah. So, but we saw two bucks. One was a spike. You can't, it was not legal. And the other one was a forky that my boy smoked. I smoked. And he shot a coyote down there too. And it was- That's awesome. You know? It was success. Yeah. It was just success to go. But now, I mean, Idaho has since changed their age. Yeah. Now we're 10 years old. And so at 10, you know, you start looking at New Mexico. You can look at Kansas. As soon as they have 100 ed, you can do New Mexico. You can look at Kansas if you're ready to do that. No age limit in Kansas. And then Idaho. And then-

Arizona's 10. Yeah. Arizona 10 to get going. Then what would we say the no-brainer kid states? No-brainer. Like Nevada's a no-brainer with the cheap, cheap- Pilled. $15 hunting license. Start those points. $5 hunting license in Arizona. $31 in Idaho. Those are just no-brainers. Wyoming- Colorado and Wyoming, cheap points. Cheat points. And you can go every year. Ashley just barely got- We got another guy that's going to overuse his points. He's got more points than the unit takes. He's going to point boost or she's going to get a tag. I mean, so that's another reason, Adam. We're talking about our wives and getting- And with the point-boosting options as far as applying together and group applications and then even mentoring tags is- Now we're going, well, maybe we should apply our wives a little bit more just because- So our kids have a few more options and whatnot. Yeah.

And point boost them a little. We're not talking about going to the Arizona Strip before they're- We're talking about just getting them a region K or H tag a year or two earlier. That's all we're really talking about. That's what we're talking about. And really getting them, you know, adhering to the hunter's lifestyle. So anyway, what else are there for kids that we've been- That's probably it. I mean, Washington is super cheap to apply. We do it just to do it. Oregon's cheap to apply for kids. For kids. Youth license, it's cheap. Once they become adults or in the case of Washington, 16, we pull the pin. We're done. Yeah. I mean, it's- But what if they got a sheep tag or a goat or a moose or something like that? That's right. So we both applied our kids, you know, for that. And then those points never purge or whatever. And so- So anyway- Anyway. Definitely do it. You do just-

You have to have a little bit of- It's definitely different than when we started applying in high school and college age than it is right now starting to apply our kids. It's just be a little bit more- A lot more realistic about what you're really building points for. And that's to go hunting. Okay. I'm going to put you on the spot now. Break out your pen and papers, podcast listeners. All right. Top five ranked in order states to apply for kids. I hate to put you on the spot like this. No, dude. Just off the cuff. What would the top be defined as? Yes. Opportunity to get tags and go hunting or- Build building points? Well, I mean- Well, I guess probably not top five. Building hunting- Getting hunting experience. Getting hunting experience. Well, I just think Colorado is a no-brainer because one thing is with- And Chris, you know this.

Adam, Jeff, we all have got zero to one point type tags. Yeah. We do. We love them. There's turnback tags. There's so many options, right? No-brainer. Colorado's a no-brainer. Colorado. Probably Idaho. We've all had our kids there. She had kids there. She had kids there. And no points there. But- No points. They're not building. But they got some youth hunts. Or they got generals. They're unlimited. They're stuff you can- Yeah. And we've all had our kids there in the first year or two of their hunting. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. You can't even get to Utah. It's so cheap. Ashley killed her first buck up there. Justin killed his first buck. In New Mexico, Colton killed his first- Buck. Buck. Sean killed his first elk. His first big game animal was an elk in New Mexico. Some amazing youth hunt opportunities in New Mexico for sure. New Mexico, again, not a non-point state. Utah, we love-

They don't really- Here you have a point system for general and limited entry. They do give some- And limited entry. They do give some 20% to the youth. But from a non-resent perspective, Utah wouldn't be high on a list. It wouldn't be. But what if you went on the general pretty regular? From an odd standpoint. General would be. But really, would you rank that higher than a one-point Colorado? No. No. I'd say, yeah. Colorado, Wyoming, New Mexico. Of course, Canada. And there's some of those. Idaho, Arizona. We love. Arizona's cheap. $5 for the hunting license. Come on. Of course, you should do that. But there's plenty of opportunities down there, and just with four or five points, six points, you can do some of those. For a place with a point system. Or youth deer hunts. They've got youth deer hunts antlered in units we've never even heard of. 20A. Whatever. You know what I mean?

I'm just throwing that out there. I don't know. I like the story we ran in our last magazine for Arizona with Wayne Brown. Wayne and Nicole. Took three kids down there, and they killed three coos deer in one trip. Yeah. Backpacking. Decent little bucks, too. Yeah. And they're nice bucks. I mean, something to be had. And Arizona, unlike New Mexico, gives awesome rut hunts for mule deer and elk to youth. They're better than the adult tags. You can't really say that about Arizona. They're just different seasons. They're opportunity. A lot of antlerless elk, and then some antler deer in off-the-wall units. The best one being like unit 10. You know what I mean? And 18B, by the way, where we hunted sheep. Exactly. So anyway, a few opportunities there. We love the over-the-counter turkey hunts in Arizona. It's off the charts, really, for kids. Yes, they are. Give kids a little break.

Give us out of the office for a day. And I would say Nevada. Nevada's cheap. It's $15 worth getting. It's worth doing it. That was just a year ago that they instituted that. Changed up the license system. But the one thing, a little bit like Utah, the drawn tags thing is going to be rare in Nevada. Well, they give their residents junior hunts for the deer. They don't give anything for non-residents other than a price break. Yeah, that's it. So it's kind of, you know. As far as a hunting license. That's right. So, but we love it. And so we do it. And, you know, they're going to thank you for it. Hopefully, if they continue to hunt when they're 25 years old, they'll be glad to have some points. So anyway, we probably missed something. But anyway, that's just off the cuff. Again, when we do these podcasts, these are off the cuff. I haven't even read that question prior to getting here.

So we're just, you know, we jumped from the phone into the podcast room for a minute. And so here we are. Well, maybe we'd get a different answer here in a day or two. Who knows? This may be for Jeff. And I haven't read the question. Which one are you looking at? I'll read it. For someone who works full time and doesn't have a lot of time to scout, what is the best advice and options to hunt general season units for trophy deer? First thing I would say is the general season. With no time. Wow. Not asking for much. So I'd say the first thing is that person should be hunting Colorado third season. Why is that? Why is that? Because you don't need to scout it. You don't need to scout it. You're coming in between, I don't know, the first to fifth. It always kind of varies in that range of November. For nine days after that. For nine days after that.

So you're hunting bucks that are coming into the rut. You don't need to pre-scout or hunt like that. You don't need to. You don't need to know where they're watering. You don't need to do all that extra work. You don't need to run cameras for sure. You know, you basically are showing up as the bucks are showing up into areas and you're hunting it that way. So that's going to be your first priority is finding units and hunts that are kind of geared toward that where it does you almost no good to hunt. Honestly, let's say Utah limited entry elk rifle. Boy, it doesn't do a heck of a lot of good to pre-scout to run cameras on that. Right. And to really grind that up. Bulls move and change all over the place. They're moving. Right. So anytime you can show up right at the rut, that's going to be the best way. That's why I've always hunted Colorado because I had a full-time job cranking.

Like you have to show up ready to hunt the best way you can. Now, granted, it's always good to know the roads, whatever, but, and no access, different things like that. It's always good. Yes, I get it. All the preseason scouting can help that. But maximize your time. If you've got five days, go five days at the end of that Colorado third season instead of the first of it. Or different things like that. There's a lot of different things. You can watch the weather. Pay attention to that. Don't waste time going if it's going to be snowing for three days and you know you're not going to be able to see anything. Don't go then. Wait until right when the snow is breaking. Hit it. Different things like that.

One thing that I would probably offer, if you're going to try to tailor it to a general season unit, and maybe we'll talk about it, I guess, Utah, Idaho, which have general season type hunts, is stick with the same unit. Assuming the unit's worth a darn. Hunt the same unit repetitively over and over. You'll generally do better. You'll learn more country. You'll learn where deer tend to move as hunting pressure increases, things like that. Now, if you pick a random unit to start with, let's say, I don't know, any ochre, Stansbury. Let's say you picked that one. The ochres. All right. Okay. And I know there's people in northern Utah. I'm turning my tag out. I'm tapping out. Just like you had me at ochre. I'm tapping out. I'm done. And I'm going to put this out for all you Salt Lake and Tuola Valley people in northern Utah. Like the llama podcast we did. Come on. Come on.

Somebody's going to call and send us a picture of a 30-inch buck off the ochres. And I want to see it. Yes. And it's probably a freak. Send it. The thing is ingested somewhere it shows from out there. But I just picked that one out because I don't know as much about it, and it would probably not be the one I'd pick. I see a million or two million people off the top of it, and I'm like, I don't feel like counting deer this close to two million people. I love the pictures that pour in from these podcasts. I love it. Send them in. But my point is, if you happen to pick a bad unit, don't just grind in one out just to take the advice that I just gave you about hunting the same unit forever until it happens. But if you're a unit with good deer numbers and a decent age structure, decent buck-to-doe ratio, and you're seeing bucks, maybe it doesn't happen.

You don't kill a big deer every year on public land, on general season units, unless you aren't hunting very many other hunts. And what I mean by that, if it's your only hunt of the year and you can sink all your teeth into it, a lot of guys can really excel on general season hunts doing it that way. But my two cents would be hunt familiar areas over and over and over, and you'll learn more and you'll do better that way. I agree. I think you guys did it well. I think you covered it. I don't know what I could add to that. So it's just, you got to hunt close to home and scout as much as you can, even though you can't scout a lot. General season, trophy deer, those are, I mean, those things generally don't happen. I mean, with time it could, and so anyway, you do need a little time, so. How about one for Chris? Let's have it. Oh, there you go. I got the, okay. Let's see.

I have a dedicated hunter dag for Pine Valley. Why are you chuckling, Chris? This is for you, Chris. When is the best time to scout for the archery? And if I find bucks, should I stick to the same area for the muzzleloader and both the rifle seasons? So dedicated hunter, for those of you listeners that don't know what that means, it only applies to the general season deer hunts in Utah. It's a program that you can enroll in. It's a separate draw that allows you to hunt all seasons within that general season unit for the year. You have to do some service hours and some different things like that on wildlife related projects or buy those service hours. And you can only kill up to two deer in a three year period. You're in the program for three years. You can only kill two bucks in those three years. So this gentleman wants to know, all right, when's the best time to scout?

And then when you find something, how long can you count on that deer? How long is your scouting info good for? And then when do you make the change? I usually tend to really start getting into it. I mean, I'll go out earlier than this at times, but actually scouting deer, I usually start later toward the end of June when the bucks are starting to look like something. You can kind of tell what they're going to be, see their genetics. And that's when I start really hitting it. And then that serves for your archery season hunts. And then the first part of your muzzleloader, you can generally have those deer in that general area. After that, after your muzzleloader season, those deer are going to start moving. And a lot of times they won't be there for the rifle. So. Well, especially that later rifle. Yeah. That later rifle, he's actually about Pine Valley. Especially on Pine Valley.

That is a highly migratory unit. I mean, they're, they're leaving. Yeah. They're going into Nevada and the Nevadans think they got something hunting our general bucks. And I'm sitting here going, if you got a 240s tag in Nevada, hunt the local bucks. Don't be hunting our Utah bucks because they're dinky. One of the cool things about the dedicated hunter is scout during the season for the next year. So when you're out there on the rifle hunt, scout that season for the next year. I thought you were going to say one of the cool things is all the dedicated service hours you have to do and the people you get to meet. No, not necessarily. Contrary to popular belief, it is like non-residents can, can apply and draw a dedicated hunter tag. It's fairly expensive. Well, it's expensive, but not in the real scheme of things. It's how much. You had three general season deer. It's about a thousand.

I think it's about a grand, isn't it? Yeah. You had three general season tags together. You're pushing 750 or 800 right there. So, I mean, it's. Well, then you got your, you got your service hours that you can buy out at 20 bucks an hour. Yeah. You know, so you got a little bit of expense, but it's worth it. And right now. There's a lot of how many deer tags can you draw as a non-resident on general? One every two to three years? Yeah. Yeah. So while you're gaining points for everything else, get a point for dedicated. Get a point for general. Especially if you live, if you live somewhat close enough to Utah to capitalize on using, you know, hunting it every year. Some non-residents can't even come to hunt Utah every single year. So they're fine just applying for the regular general season hunt and drawing it every two or three years and coming hunting.

But if you live close enough or you want to come every year, you should at least be doing the dedicated hunter program. Get a point for that. Point for the general. Point for limited entry. I know it sounds like points are over. Yeah. We're the only state that has three different deer points like that, that I know of. Somebody might point out something different in Arkansas or Kentucky, but we're talking about Western. Having said that, I think what we're talking about here when we're talking about both rifle seasons, the muzzle, the archery, scout early for the archery and muzzles. Scout your guts out. That's when it's really going to be good for. The first rifle, you start to get into that. I think it's about 30% of the rifle tags go in that first rifle. And then that later rifle is more what Adam's talking about when you hunt it often, hunt the same place often.

If you have dedicated hunter, you're hunting it three years unless you kill a buck. You know what I'm saying? I mean, if you, you know, you're going to basically hunt it, you plan on hunting it for three years, that information on where those deer go and what bucks you're going to see, they generally do have a pattern and they'll migrate the same, the same basic area. And so that information, you can only learn that during the season. You know what I mean? And once you get a feel for where those deer go, now you're going to go hunt deer, you know, where they, the bulk of them migrate to. But hunting specific deer, kill them in the archery muzzle and first part of that first rifle. Yeah. That's right. All right. Next one, Jeff. Read, read one off. Oh, where are we at? I, I also have a late rifle elk tag for the block units in Arizona in November, December.

When would be the best time to scout? Thanks for the podcast. Man, I, I, you know, I would tend to be scouting the year prior. You know, you're going to go. That's the one thing about nice about Arizona is you can tell when you're going to get drawn. Yeah. And, and that's one that you could go down. Those hunts usually start late November. Yeah. And if you could go the year before, a week before the season. Yes. Or even a week after the season, see where bulls are even at. You're going to get a feel for that. But let's say, I guess in this case, you didn't do that the year before. You drew a tag this year. Right before it starts. I would go, yeah, one to three weeks before. You don't want to go September, October when the rut's still going on. And you want to go post-strut when bulls are drifting off just to be wintering bulls.

You might go in the summer and crush it and just learn and get a feel for it. Don't feel bad when you don't see anything. Yes. And then, yeah. And then, like Adam says, one, really, if you could hit it seven days prior and just stay there and roll right into the season beginning, you know, that's when you're going to find your best success. I mean, you could shed hunt where you're finding sheds and things like that. Guys are doing well. And that's one thing about shed hunters. Shed hunters always know where these bulls are for seasons like this. We killed a bull because we found his sheds. You know where they are late season. Where they're heading to. Yep. That's right. Same thing. We have some of these late rifle hunts here in Utah. And guys are killing these giant bulls. And a lot of it is. They find the sheds the year before.

Sometimes they're stumbling onto them deer hunting or something weird like that. And they're like, whoa, this is a hard white set. And I need a November elk tag. That's right. You know. So if it's just about not necessarily wanting a bugle hunt but just a matter of killing that specific animal. All right. How do you track a deer where a deer gets water without trail cameras? Especially where I'm at the creeks and streams everywhere as well as stock dams. Do the deer care about water quality and how often do they hit water? Just trying to further expand my scouting regimen. Brady. Yeah. That's a good question. You know, a lot of times I'll be walking the streams. And, you know, there's trails. Deer like. There's just something about it. They feel. Sometimes there's places where the stream is congested and they feel vulnerable. Whether a lion, bobcat. Choked up. Thick.

So they won't water there. But you'll see where these trails are two feet wide going right down to a water to the stream. And they're trashed with deer tracks. Well, it's probably because there's less foliage around. Maybe 20 yards. Or they can see 20 yards down both sides of the stream or whatever. And they just don't feel as vulnerable. So those deer will trail in and out the same place or the same two or three places along that stream. So I'm walking that stream edge, which is a favorite place for rattlesnakes because rattlesnakes eat little critters. Little critters drink water. And eat little green grass. And green grass grows where there's water. So watch for snakes. But anyway, having said that, travel up and down. See where those trails are coming in and out. And then set your cameras, you know, coming in and out of those trails. Accordingly there.

You know, because I'll put, I'll run on streams that are two miles long or three miles long. But there's hot spots within that stream. They're not just coming randomly every single night. That's right. Different places. But it also is, there can be way too much water. And there's some cases you can't do anything about it. You're just, you're at a. Talk about the Colorado River. We're going to start from Jetson and we're going to go to Lake Powell.

All right. All right. All right. I think basically it gets down to if there's a whole bunch of water in the area, trail cameras aren't going to be helpful. I mean, to be honest. Not as much. Not as much. They can be, especially stock ponds, different things like that. But too, you can run a salt lick in certain states or whatever and kind of congregate them on the way to water or whatever. But I think, yes, I think you're right, Jeff. We're going to be glassing. You're going to be glassing. You're going to be glassing heavy, but, you know, stock tanks are tough. We're running, you know, four or five cameras on one stock pond, depending. As far as water quality, we've seen that in certain cases, haven't we, Jason, where right where the water comes out of the springs tends to be the spot where they like not, where it gets mucked up. And now there's exceptions to that.

But, you know, I've seen that too with sheep too. They'll stick their nose right up in the crack and suck it slurping out of the mountain versus drink it after it gets down in the alkali soil and all that, which they'll drink. They'll drink that before they, you know, go thirsty. But they are somewhat picky. I mean, at times they'll drink when they have to, but they like clean water. I feel like they like clean water, huh? Is that what you're getting at? Yeah, having said that, when they don't have a choice, they can get by with all the crap. They'll drink cow crap. Yeah. So. How often do they hit water is the next question there. That is everything just totally depends on the unit and where you're at. If you're in the desert stuff, they do like to hit fairly regular. Having said that, though, yeah, two to three days. Two to three days, you know, in this situation.

And that's under the assumption you're running 90 to 105 in the days or something like that, right? Because you start getting down in the 80s or 75s. Yeah. It's amazing how stuff, they can stretch it out a day or two just by that. And you'd be surprised. Sometimes they'll go four or five days, some of these deer. And then, too, it depends. Like, there's probably water in a rock or something that you don't know about. One mouthful. They suck it dry, like it had a gallon or two sitting in a boulder or something weird. You know, we hypothesized, I guess, at times like that. Like, where'd they go? And then all of a sudden, he's back. And you're like, he found something. You know, he's found something that I don't know about. Yeah. Yeah, what if a weird thing, a cattleman's hauling water out there, stopped out there, had to fix with his freaking water truck,

dumped 50 gallons there in a puddle in the road, and drove on. I mean, there's stuff like that. Or a little leak springs up, you know. In the water line. In the water line, which is buried two feet under the road, and it finally surfaces. And, dude, there's a giant buck track on it. It happens all the time. But, you know, we've killed deer knowing when they're watering. Knowing that it's time tonight, he will water tonight. It's amazing how you can figure that out. So, anyway, you kind of know. And then you know when they can be further from water. They might be four if we killed a deer that was five miles from water in 105 to 10 degree weather. And we knew he was fine because he was in the middle of that stint, that three-day stint. You know what I mean? But it's amazing how far they'll walk, too, to come into water. So, anyway, did we cover that question good enough?

I think you're good. I think you're good. Yep. What's our next one? Oh, well, I guess the second part of that he's got here. Additionally, will a particular buck use the same water source all summer, or will he use different water sources in his home range, dependent on migratory patterns and pressure? They generally, that summer pattern is pretty strong for bucks. Very strong. Yeah. Unless they're pushed by a lion or coyotes or people or something crazy happens, that's... They get in a routine. Yeah. Yeah. That's strong. They might change. Like, if there's... All of a sudden, we get a buck that... We've had a deer. There is a couple particular deer that have walked 10 or 15 miles, and we couldn't kill them because of that. They had no pattern. But, you know, there's cool deer like that. More of the exception. Yeah. That's an exception. There's...

They all have a personality, and they all have, you know... And what always inevitably usually happens in southern Utah, it can happen in Nevada, not as much as southern Utah or northern Arizona, but as the monsoon of moistures that we get in late July. Late the monsoons. It ruins everything. And the patterns go out the window because now there's... There's... They don't... And when that happens, they quit using their favorite water. Yeah. Because they can go use habitat they've not been able to use and stay there where they want to live without having to come to it. So, we're talking about stuff as if they stay the same. Every summer is different. I mean, some years, baking hot water is such a limited resource, and it feels like you got them by the neck. And in other years, it's like, is there a deer alive? We've had... Well, we've had... That's 100% true. And why does it change?

And then we go check a trail camera, and there's, you know, a female lion with three kittens coming all of a sudden moved in on this water, and the bucks disappear. They do not come back. And it's their life that they're done. Things happen. Did we cover it? Yeah. I think we're good. What are our thoughts on hunting deer 1,000 foot below tree line? Any tips and tactics on hunting deer during archery season in a transition, like sage country, I guess. So, this is an earlier season hunt, so we'll just talk about August, I guess. For most... Well, Jason and I, we don't hunt alpine mule deer. I mean, we're not from Wyoming. Wyoming, that's, you know, like that. We're not from northern Utah with the Wasatch Front and all that. Most of our hunting is done... Southern Utah. In mid... Yeah. We'll just call it 5 to 8,500 feet, you know. So, everything's in that mid zone.

As far as that, I mean, there ends up being a lot. What my experience has been a little bit like on... Let's talk about the San Juan. Jason, you hunted a little sows a little bit growing up, but San Juan's a little... Or the Bajo Mountains, we'll call it. But the high alpine deer that are up high, they're out feeding in the parks. And as soon as they start feeling the sun, they're like, I'm out. They beeline it for the trees. And your hunt can be over 15 minutes after daylight. So, hunting deer like that, a lot of times, is a lot different. It's like guessing the tree line to be right on.

Because we don't have as much, at least in some of these ranges down here. You know, you have basins in Colorado with a lot more structure and little rock outcroppings and stunted trees, fill them to bed. A lot of those places I've hunted in Utah and parts of Wyoming, they go to the timber. And now there's exceptions to that everywhere in Wyoming. But I guess, so to answer the question, I think everything we hunt is below 1,000 feet below... Below tree line, yeah. Below, 1,000 foot below tree line. We're not above tree line everywhere. You know, we're hunting... Meaning timber line. He's talking timber line, right? Yeah. Yeah. Tree line, which is, say, 10,000 feet, whatever. Yeah. I was just thinking about tree lines. Like, you know, we have a lot of chained areas or burns or whatever in the tree line. So at times we'll have deer, and this may pertain to what this guy's asking too.

I don't know. But like, we're not going to... I picture Elmer Fudd, but we're not going to put our... You know, we're not going to go through and still hunt. It's just not... Not for trophy. The odds are not in your favor. Especially if you know about a deer. You're going to... Yeah. There's a 99% chance you're going to blow the deer out. Right. And a 1% that you're going to have it come together. Yeah, to have an arrow knocked and to start walking around. I mean, it might work for a forky or a 3x4 or whatever. And there's places up here on Cedar Mountain. You could... Just to hunt deer. You know what I mean? But really, we need to be able to glass them. And so you're glassing. Deer aren't just going to be in the thick all the time. They're going to come out. They like to be out in the open a little bit each day. And so generally, you'd glass them.

And then if they hit the tree line, you know, I would be on that tree line if the wind would allow it. Because they usually go in and out at the same basic general area. They'll go in, come out. They'll go in, come out. And so anyway, I don't know. Every deer has a pattern. You've got to figure out what it is. And use it to your advantage somehow. A lot more glassing, I guess. And I know that. I mean, glassing in a mixture of what you'd call thick and sparsely vegetated stuff. Like, we're not just glassing open hillsides. That's not where you usually see a big buck for very long. And you're glassing the stuff that he's probably already made it to before it's even daylight. And you're trying to pick him up and watch him bed. So those are probably tips for archery hunting in transition. We're not sitters. You know, whether it's water. You know, we did that. I mean, I've done that in my day.

Tree stands, blinds, water. But we just don't. It's not my hunting style. I don't hunt that way. I'm a glasser. I like to sit behind the glass. And that might mean that you're there until 10 o'clock. And then you've got nothing to hunt. You don't have another option. But usually they were hunting a specific deer or two. And there's a specific reason. It's usually crisscrossing. Guys on different ridges looking back underneath each other and all that. Just trying to get a break. And frankly, you go two, three days sometimes before you even see your target buck when you know he's living there. So just got to keep grinding. And pay attention to the feed. Pay attention. Like if it's thick pines and like there's not a lot of feed in thick pine stuff. You know, there's just not a lot of feed for a deer in there. Vegetation needs sunlight. Yeah, they need sunlight.

They need the right brush to get them out. And that's what they're grazing on. You know, that's what they're not necessarily grazing but browsing on. And that's what they're hitting. So pay attention a lot to that especially. And I think if you're asking the question of now a lot of guys' most hated type of country to hunt is the P&J stuff. Like, you know, all the cedars and pinyon juniper trees and all that stuff. A lot of guys hate doing that. They love that high country region G type basins, glass and all that stuff. It's what you're used to probably. We're not used to that. You guys are used to southern Utah cedars and pinyons. Cedars and dealing with that. And it's just a style of hunting. Oak, thick oak brush. I mean, LaSalle's and San Juan. I mean, that's where we grew up. You're living in that oak brush. A lot of that country is Colorado. But they love it. 61, 62 in Colorado.

Some of that crazy, you know, just a lot of thick stuff. And that's why deer are big. They're old and big because some of this stuff is tough. And they're killed on late season rifle hunts, you know, when they become vulnerable and move a little bit down in the open country. What's your guys' weapon of choice? Or do you prefer one over the other? And if so, why? I mean, I like to kill stuff, you know. And so, I mean, whatever. Sometimes it's archery with elk. It's a no-brainer season. I mean, you know, that's when the rut hunts occur and whatnot, generally speaking. Now, you've got a few exceptions, obviously, in Utah and stuff. But anyway, and then, you know, rifle deer is awesome. But, you know, when you kill a giant with a bow, as you did, Adam, on the Henrys, or I've done in Nevada several times or even here in Utah, there's no feeling like it. Well, and that's.

But it's the hardest time to actually kill them sometimes. It's very frustrating. But it's the best. It's usually the best time, at least for the way we like to hunt, to hunt a big deer. It is. And so, I generally would, I will always almost pick a muzzleloader archery to go sooner in the year. Some states aren't that way. Some states don't even have specific muzzleloader hunts. You know, Wyoming, things like that. But generally, to go earlier is what I prefer when we're hunting mule deer. Now, if we're talking elk, you know, who knows, archery elk in the rut. Sometimes we have to put in for late season hunts because there's only so many days in September. And maybe we're hunting mule deer and elk in September in certain states. But you've got to be well versed. I mean, Adam had a muzzleloader hunt up in Idaho. And it was a primitive sort. Open ignition. Yeah. Number 11, no 209 stuff.

So, we've got muzzleloaders that are scoped for Utah, Arizona, New Mexico. Nevada, open sight. Open sight there. And then you've got a primitive one with an exposed nipple ignition, number 11, exposed to the elements, lead, bullet, full bore. You've got to just jump through the hoops. And have stuff in your house. I haven't used that gun since. That's right. Same thing with archery equipment. We've all got, you know, newer bows I've seen the last five years. And they're incredible. Great, great, great opportunities for archers. Having said that, you know, a lot of heartache comes with archery hunting. That's a love-hink situation. You also can draw a tag with five to seven points versus 15 or 20. That's right. And so, you've got things like that to contend with.

We generally, I guess, we'll go with whatever it takes to be able to draw the tag the easiest, as long as it's not the worst season to be out there. But if it's a good season and we've got an angle to draw a tag, better drawing odds, we'll take that and give our chances to hunt. 100%. Even if we eat the tag, we'd just rather go hunting with whatever weapon than it is wait for only the best. The biggest key is hunting for us is putting ourselves in a spot where we can draw tags and hunt big animals. And usually you can't do that fairly regular unless you're well-versed in all the weapon types. You know what I mean? You've got to be able to. I hate archery hunting. And if you're hunting muzzleloader elk. But I'm going to do it. You know, late season muzzleloader elk, not the most preferred season. But you had a tag in unit 10. Hunt for the tag, not necessarily the weapon.

Well, and then every year, I mean, we try to, you know, if you draw something earlier on that's in late August and September, that kind of gets off limits if it's a high enough tag on a priority list. And then you spread it out. So that's why we oftentimes use Colorado for later October, November hunts because we're busy in Utah or Nevada on August and September hunts. So we kind of, you know, have a rotation because when you apply, not every state, you know, you start applying in January and go through June, and you don't have results out in a timely manner before you have to put in the next day. So you've got to hedge your bet a little bit but still be aggressive enough that you've got lines in the water and don't just do points only and put in for the one or two hunts that you think you want to draw. So not draw them and then you're left without anything.

We're talking about here's a question to cover for each species, specific species. Breakdown for deer, elk, and antelope, which states overall the best for each species to draw and hunt for an average run-of-the-mill size. Not trophy per se. A lot of guys would love to know where they could go every year or every other year to kill a 144-point, 276-point, and a 65-inch antelope. 11-inch. Wow. 11-inch. Okay. First off, I'll say subscribe to Epic Outdoors magazine. You're going to get a lot of information like that. I'm going to throw a plug in there for us. We don't talk a lot about antlerless stuff. No, we don't talk a lot about antlerless stuff. We don't drop bombs on moms too often. We will. However, at times, here and there, whatever. Kids, people are wanting to do that, and we do help them with that, but it's not something we publish a time and pull on. Absolutely.

At times of winter and famine. Stuff like that. Yep. Come on. You just said that. All right. So, anyway, Utah General, great opportunity to kill 140-inch, four-point course. Idaho over the counter. Colorado again on some of those turnback tags. Easy to draw tags. Second, third choicers. We talk about that in the magazine a lot. And so, one of the best states is Colorado. Wyoming, Adam, you mentioned. Yeah. A little bit. Yeah. No, really. Wyoming with easy to draw generals. Yes, for sure. Antelope, for sure. Deer, for sure. Elk, for sure. Where we struggle in Wyoming is when people really want to trophy hunt mule deer, and they got max points. That's when you struggle where to use them. That's when we struggle. It's hard to figure out. If it's in the mid-range. Wyoming is made for 140-inchers. And it's made for 270 to 330 bulls. It is.

I mean, there's bigger bulls on that, but that's the great slot. But you can't hunt it. There's a ton of them. They're wanting to draw it every year or every other year. And we were talking about this today. The bottleneck is elk. We were talking about getting elk techs for our kids. We can get deer. What are you going to do? It's hard. We can get deer one or two a year. Or three or four. If you want them. Elk is hard. I mean, we're not talking a general season. We can pick up a Colorado. We can take them to Colorado on general season or Idaho. You can go over the counter, Idaho. Go over the counter to Colorado. But generally taking a first-time elk hunter wanting to shoot their first bull, public land, and you're going to see a ton of orange. It's not the best set of quality experience. Yeah. You want to feel like a little bit exclusivity, you know, a limited entry feel. And it's hard.

Jason, you took your boy last year. He had to burn his points the last year before he became an adult. And we had to do the special, which charged me the full adult fee, which I did it. I'm glad I did it. Yeah, he killed a great six-point bull. It turned out that the odds did jump, and lucky we did it. Yeah. But where do you go? Where do you go, guys, every year, every other year? Colorado for deer. You could lump elk into that, too. There's stuff you can draw with three to five elk points. They're not 270 bulls, no problem. Wyoming. Idaho, that'd be another one that you'd probably look at. No point system, but you can go fairly regular. Yeah. You know, and then New Mexico, we're huge fans of applying to New Mexico. Be very aggressive. Use all three choices. I think this is where, you know, we've even got some units in Arizona.

Of course, we think of Arizona as hunting at once in your life, twice, or three times in your life. That's true for archery 27 or 10, 9, 23, some of these. But they do have laid elk at them. You even applied your kids and drawn laid elk. Well, that's what I was talking about. You know, they had 10 points or something this year, two girls. And I kind of banked around them, drawing their elk tag this year, Thanksgiving in Arizona. And point creep edged them out. And so even when you think he got something, I mean, that's 10 points. My older daughters, you know, got more than the younger. But then you get the loyalty and some of that boosting them up. So it's not like they've been applying for 10 years. But it's tough. And that would have been a good quality hunt. But I'd probably lump the Utah General if you're talking about something you can hunt regularly,

whether you're a Utah resident or a non-resident. One 40-inch, four-point bucks, that can be done on a lot of southern Utah units. I'm going to say southern Utah. Northern Utah, some of the public land units up north can be more traffic. Maybe 138. 138 up there. Or 38. How about Montana? I think the Montana General. Yes. You know, you get that fairly regular. Great opportunity for guys that are willing to work hard in region three, a little bit in region four, region one. So, anyway, plenty of general options up there, which, Jeff, you did last year. Adam, we're going to go up there and kill it next year. And some of these generals, like Montana, that's not a guaranteed every year. It's at least in every other year. Yeah. But same with the Wyoming General elk. It's not guaranteed every year.

But if you get those on alternating cycles, you can have a deer tag every year or two that you want one, you know, with a Montana or a Wyoming in the mix. Yeah. And you can hunt all that, well, region G, for all intents and purposes, north of Kimmer on general elk and do fairly well. And so, anyway, there's options out there. But they are, there is a little bit of a bottleneck on elk deer, plethora of tags out there. Antelope even somewhat maybe not as easy to get other than Wyoming or Montana. Montana for antelope, too. Great for antelope. $200 for a non-resident tag. That's, I think, I don't know, without doing a lot of research, I think that's the cheapest non-resident tag, isn't it? $205 for Montana. I don't know of a cheap one off the top of my head. Very inexpensive. You could do over-the-counter freaking, you know, very few, yes, very few over-the-counter hunts for antelope.

Plenty for deer. Some for elk. But antelope's tough. Think about them. So then you go, well, it's unlimited archery for over-the-counter guys up there in Idaho. All right. So what would you say is more important when it comes to choosing an area to hunt mule deer? An area close to home or a place with less hunters and less pressure?

Man, I personally like close to home. I think close to home is key. You can usually, you know. Scout and invest more in it. Well, yeah, and you can kind of camouflage it and call it family time. You know what I mean? Whoa. Well, when you're married, you've got 14 kids. You're giving your wife and your homo for the next podcast. You're trying to get husband of the year award, father of the year award, and still be a hunter. Close to home is awesome. I think if you can scout it regularly and be close to home, I think it's more important. You get less hunters and less pressure also means people, a lot of times, that means that's a very rare tag to draw or tough tag to draw. You've got teams of hunters, guides and outfitters.

A lot of times, and I find myself both, you know, when I'm hunting with kids and all that, like you alluded, hunting closer to home is more important than anything because you get to be able to run out after work and things like that. But I tend to, myself, want to maybe go somewhere that's less pressure. And, you know, your odds of seeing very many deer are going to go down because if there's less pressure. There's less deer. There's fewer deer. Because where there's a lot of deer, let's look at. Game and fish agents, they like selling times. Yeah, let's look at Pine Valley and Zion. And there's a lot of deer, but there's the most tags in southern Utah. Go to Southwest Desert. Yeah. A lot fewer tags. Yeah. And it'll eat you up. Yeah, that's right. You know, you go out to the desert units and stuff like that, same thing applies. But that's not close to home. Yeah.

You either go out there and get lucky or you've had a lot of extra time to go scout it and still get lucky. But, so it can kind of go both ways. But it also comes down to, I think, personal preferences. Some people, to stay motivated on a hunt, need to be seeing animals. Whether that's does, small bucks. They need that just to keep them going. Most people. Yeah. Some people, it's harder to go and hunt five days without seeing a deer or a buck. It's very hard. Yeah, it's tough. So, also, that's a question that comes down to the type of expectations you are. And how much time you can put in all that stuff. And I know, Jason, you've mentioned to people before, like, you know, when you live in the right spot, don't go chasing everything across the country. Trinity. Yeah. Well, he was talking about, back in the day, you know, he was talking about, you know, I want to kill some bucks.

I want to kill some of the bucks like what you've killed. And I'm thinking about doing Nevada and Utah and all this. And he lives in Arizona. He lives right there on the New Mexico border. And he's, you know, and I said, well, you got big deer down there. Why don't you just hunt down there? Well, you know. And I said, no, you put the time in, not I'm putting here, but put it in your backyard. Guys up in Wyoming, put it in your backyard. Guys in Idaho, put it in your backyard. You put time in your backyard, you're going to freaking hunt giants. And here he smokes a 220 inch or whatever. And I think that don't do what I like to do unless you live where I live and you have the exact same preferences I have. Adam, don't do what Adam likes to do unless you have the exact same preferences he has. Because some people, you wish wouldn't be mentally capable to hunt.

I'm not necessarily mentally capable of hunting the way you do, although we hunt similar. Yeah. And, you know, and you got to gauge what your hunt's going to be against the amount of time you have and different things like that. And it's not the same for everybody. It just isn't. Some guys, like I talked to a firefighter guy from California. Well, that guy should be doing dedicated hunter because he's got the time to take off. He works two days, he's off four, you know, or whatever. He can come and he can scout a general season tag, make the most of it, right? Yeah. Well, if you're working five days a week and you only have two days a week on the weekend to try to make, it's not a good investment to do. Right. You know, you just got to do it. Well, we've got guys over there in California that are applying for all the Reno units.

And I had a guy draw the 035 archery and all that may make sense for them. I'm looking at it going, you're not going to catch me over there. That's a nine-hour drive through Highway 50. I don't think a care of gas is 35 cents a gallon. I ain't going over that. You know what I mean? That's right. But he'll probably spend a lot of time because it's close to his house. If it's in his backyard, he's going to have fun. He might kill a monster. Yep. That's right. So, anyway, I don't know. Gage your personal situation. If you live somewhere and you're a long ways from any mule deer, this question is not even going to matter. You've got to drive a long ways from home and you're not going to have as much time to scout and all that. So, it's a hard one to answer perfectly, but evaluate what's most important to you. Seeing animals, not seeing animals. Do you have time to scout? Not.

Then kind of go from there and pick an unit. Well, guys, it's fun to talk about some of this stuff. Of course, we're just doing it off the cuff and it makes us think quick and fast. But having said that, it's what we do for a living. It's all we do day in and day out is, you know, consult and think about hunting. We're developing strategies, breaking out maps. Adam and I broke out some maps earlier today. Starting to dry out. So, we might actually, you know, have a need to put out a few cameras on water and whatnot. But, anyway, it's getting to be that fun time of year. Actually, we were talking about it at lunch. I'm kind of tired of the application season. I'm wore out. Oh, it's time to move on. I'm wore out. I feel like we just got done hunting. I mean, I feel, I'm tired. Huh? Oh, I get it. You know, you get to this point in the season and you're so wishy-washy and it comes down.

You've got a few big states that you can draw, right? Yeah. That tags are available. You know, you've got Wyoming coming up here. We're just wishing we had Colorado results in our paws. I'm not going to get them. Guys talking about Region F. Again, another one talking about $140. I mean, I had a Region F guy today and a, you know, a whitetail guy wanting to kill $150. I mean, there's a wide variety up there in Wyoming where there's a wide variety of options and questions. And both Wyoming and Idaho are always right now on everybody's front burner because, you know, Utah, Nevada just came out. And if you, it's, you're running out of options here. Arizona deer is not one, if you're really restrictively going after, if you're going after trophy deer, it's not one you hang your hopes on in Arizona. Now, if you're looking at mid-tier mule deer or coos deer, tons of options down there to go.

But for last, last, I guess, minute options to put your name in the hat, Wyoming and Idaho are a couple of them. But in addition to that, you may have heard we got our epic hunt giveaway that we got going right now through June 14th. We only ran this thing for about 45 days. There's a reason for that. Some of these hunts are this fall. The stone sheep hunt, the mule deer hunts, the elk hunt. This is one of those years shaping up for especially some of these mule deer and elk to be off the charts. The trophy potential on these tags that we bought, 242 mule deer, 231 mule deer, you know, southwestern New Mexico elk hunt. They're all off the charts. And, of course, the stone sheep, doll sheep, brown bear. If you've got some time in your schedule this fall or if you find yourself without a tag, you might consider buying some tickets or join an epic outdoors or referring somebody that joins.

You can get tickets in those three ways. Joining, referring somebody that joins our service. That's $100 a year or just simply buying tickets. Give us a call, 435-263-0777 or epicoutdoors.com. Check it out. Again, deadline June 14th. That's coming up here right away. We're going to make a handful of people's dreams because, seriously, those hunts, I would give a lot for. Well, these are hunts that we want ourselves. And that's the one thing. We were looking at a drought monitor map, and some of these places are 200, 300. 300 is more common than 200% of normal. 300 plus percent of normal. And so that's why we really keep you up, especially on this elk in New Mexico and these deer in Nevada. That's three of the six opportunities. And, of course, we have great sheep hunts. Two sheep hunts and a brown bear. So if you haven't been lucky somewhere else, go ahead and jump in this draw.

Get another chance to get on a hunt. Okay. When we're talking about hunts, you do need to use good equipment. Good equipment, I'm talking about Outdoor Edge knives. They're incredible. We've got the Razor Light. We did do a huge series in the Epic Outdoors with the Epic Outdoors logo on it. We appreciate them and the partnership they have with us here at Epic Outdoors. Super good opportunity to pick up a knife. It's got replaceable blades, and we're not talking flimsy ones that gouge you. Super good. The Razor Light, they're sturdy, long but sturdy. They also have a backbone, kind of a blade-looking backbone there that it hooks to, so it's pretty awesome. Give them a holler at 1-800-447-3343. Anyway, go to OutdoorEdge.com, and you can look at all the new products.

And last, I guess but not least, if you're looking for a new hunting rifle, a Western long-range, custom long-range rifle setup, give Kurt at Red Rock Precision a call, 801-425-6574. Again, Red Rock Precision rifles. We've got several of these rifles amongst us in the office and actually got a new one I've got to go pick up. Pretty excited about this one, 65PRC. And anyway, great custom setup. They know their stuff. Very comfortable to shoot. Variety of different optic setups for those and caliber options for you. So give Kurt and the guys at Red Rock Precision a call if you're looking to up your game in terms of a long-range hunting rifle. These are good partners. We do appreciate them. Again, we appreciate Under Armour, all the support they give us. Of course, we support them as well. So anyway, we appreciate them all. Headed up to Alaska.

We're going to do some damage up there, hopefully. Got a few applications. The boys here in the office, anybody needs some help with some of their applications, last-minute deadlines. Wyoming, you'll be hearing about that a little bit. We've got that coming up here on Friday, May 31st. And then, of course, we've got Idaho June 5th. And then June 11th for Arizona. I don't know. I'm probably missing 14. California June 2nd. How about that? Of course I missed the most important state. That guy was talking about Unit X, and I was thinking X1, X2. What's he talking about? X5B? Anyway. It's true. Thanks for sending in you guys' questions. It's been fun. We'll do it again sometime. Looking forward to having on some new fun guests here in the near future throughout the summer to get you guys prepared for your hunts. We want the millennials. We're going to talk to the millennials.

So, again, send me your story. It's true. Send me your photos of all the millennials with big stuff to Jason at EpicOutdoors.com. Maybe we'll throw you up on social media, huh? How about that? We'll do it. All right. Well, it's hot here. Let's call it a day. Pull the plug. Tap out. All right.