EP 132: Making the Most of a Tag with Jason Mouttet

You know, we get these opportunities and we want to make the most of them. So I put in for it last year, so this is my second year ever putting in for Big One Ship. Your whole life has been wrapped up and now it comes down to these five days. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, this is Chris with the Epic Outdoors podcast. I got Jeff John here as well. And we're here in the office today. And it's almost hunting season. Almost, man. And things are starting to get fired up. The trail camera batteries are all below 40%. It's time to change those out. You know, cards are full and you should have checked them two days ago. But, you know, it's time to get out there, pull the cards and see what's going on. I'm going to try to get back out this afternoon. But before we get into this too much, we want to thank Under Armour. They're an awesome sponsor of ours. We appreciate everything that they do. They have come out with some amazing gear. Check them out. Also, most of our schedules are getting pretty full right now as far as hunting.

But if you have an opening still or if you're still looking for something, if you'd like an elk tag. If your daughter's getting married, I hear this all the time. My daughter's getting married in the middle of September. What am I supposed to do for an elk hunt this year? And here's an option. Okay. We've got an option that's a little bit different and the dates are way different than you'd normally think on an elk hunt. But the Hickory right now still has some late bull tags available and the dates are January 1st to January 5th, 2020. So, it's something that's kind of fun with those dates because usually there's not a whole lot going on in that time of year. Well, and it's nice. At the first of the year, a lot of manufacturing, different things is shutting down.

So, you know, if you're a sales rep guy and you need something to do because, well, your guys in China have shut things down for the new year or whatever, go elk hunting. Just get out of town. Go elk hunting. Like, it's a perfect time to go. So, you know, talking to guys, you know, they're seeing a lot of bulls on these hunts. Yeah. Like, you spend a good day glassing. You might pull up 50-plus bulls in a day just glassing. You know, solid elk hunt, great opportunity. Yeah, and you're probably looking at, you know, 320-class bulls on the upper end. But just a good opportunity, fun hunt, and a great time of year for not a whole lot else going on. Yeah, and especially if you're looking at maybe in the future jumping in on the deer draw and you want to kind of get yourself familiar with how the hickory actually works,

you know, this is a good opportunity to get on the reservation, hunt with a guide, hunt with a tribal guide, and spend the time doing that. So it's a great opportunity to get out, and that's something to keep in mind as the draws come up next year. You can also apply for those deer tags as well. Amazing hunt. It's an amazing hunt. Yeah, and as far as cost, for one of those elk tags, your base price, I believe, is $7,000, and then you've got to hire a tribal guide. On top of that price. Yep. And those prices, you know, you'll have to call and kind of get dialed in exactly on what that guide will cost, and you'll be set up, ready to go. Yeah, and also, as far as next year goes, if it's something you're interested in, they do have other permits available for next year, but you're just going to have to get on that a lot earlier.

A lot of those are on a draw, but the bull tags, you can a lot of times get over the counter. So if you want to contact them, the number is 575-759-3255, and that is Hickory, a game and fish department. Right on. Well, moving on. What else we got going, Chris? Oh, it's pretty quiet today, and usually that's a sign of the beginnings of hunting season. We're only, what, a few days out from Nevada archery opening, right? Yes, you know, that's opening up on the 10th. You know, we are getting calls. I'm surprised at some of the calls we're getting. Guys calling in, hey, I'm on my way to Colorado here next week, you know, doing some scouting for some different hunts. Of course, you know, everybody's excited to get out in the hills, and so kind of guys are fired up. Things are happening. You know, some governor tag stuff's been killed lately. Governor and raffle tag stuff in Arizona, whatnot.

I mean, a 440 bull, you know, a couple bulls over 400. You know, some giant bucks are starting to hit the dirt. Oh, yeah. I mean, big stuff. We're starting to see that, you know, rolling in on social media, different things like that, which is always exciting, and I think it drives, you know, it's fueling the fire right now. Like, you know, you're scouting. By this time in the summer, I'm not saying you're wore out, but you're stretched thin. I mean, you've been doing the family thing. You've been burning midnight oil, you know, trying to get different things done. You've been stressed about it. It's right around the corner. Archery hunts are opening up everywhere. Nevada, August 10th. Utah, the 17th. Arizona, the 23rd. You know, things are just, this next two weeks is blowing up. You know, it's blowing up.

Yeah, for me, every year about this time, I start wishing I had an extra two months to get prepared because you have so much. Because you flew through the summer too quick. Yeah, and you have so much you feel like you need to do to prepare, and you just, now you don't have time to do it. And your batteries are at 40%, Chris. Yeah. You need to go. Exactly. I mean, and you're only going to have a very limited window to be able to do things like go check cameras or check out new country or glass, whatever, before a season actually starts. And still put in 40 hours a week at work. Like, let's face it. That's a situation a lot of us should. I mean, you know, the wife ain't going to let you get out the door. Sure. And then you're also worried, you know, you're still a little hungover from, you know, vacations over the summer and 4th of July goofing around and you name it.

And so here we're, you know, we're right in the thick of things. All of a sudden it went from the 4th of July to the whatever today is in August, the 8th of August. And that went by like a flash that last month. I don't know what happened to it. But all of a sudden we're here and hunts are right around the corner and we're, you know, of course we're geared up and excited like crazy because right now you're getting to the point where you've got a target buck or two. Mm-hmm. You know? Well, you should. Or a target bull or two, especially archery hunters. Now, if you're doing third season Colorado rifle or something like that, I get it. You're not relating to the conversation. Yeah. You know, but these guys lined up on early stuff, early archery, you know. Idaho's already done some of those earlier August 1st. You know, they have a few of those August 1st elk units.

I know guys that are killing .340 to .360 bulls already on, you know, draw tags, regular draw tags on those rifle hunts. Different things like that. A lot of stuff's firing up, rolling right now. A lot of animals hitting the dirt already, which is, you know, it seems like, yeah, it's way early. But, you know, it's about to ramp up big time this month. You know, next week, really. And then the week after that, boy, it's really ramping up. But, yes, we've got our target animals. We've seen some stuff that's, yeah, we probably need to be hunting that animal. Yeah. And it's, to me, this has been one of the most highly anticipated years that I can remember because we've had such great moisture here in the West. And there's been just a lot of hype about it. And, I mean, as far as I've seen, it is pretty good out there. Like, there are some good animals out there.

There's great antler growth as far as the stuff that I've seen. Yeah. And I think the example of that is just some of the stuff that's happened in Arizona. You've got guys who drew, you know, who either bought or drew some big tags, statewide tags, and they didn't kill last year. You know, two help tags, you know, didn't kill last year. And they've held over to this year. And, yeah, they have to hunt early. They're having to hunt pre, I believe, like August 15th or 16th. They have to, you know, is when their hunt ends because it's a 365-day license. Yeah. So they're having to kill early. But they've killed better animals now than they had on tap last year. You know, on, I mean, both elk and deer. We're finding that on elk and deer. Yeah, some unbelievable animals. Yes. That deer is. Significant. Yes. Oh, and he's neat, too, just the way he's built.

He's even, yeah, just giant beams like crazy, different things like that. Yeah, that first. He's supposed a 300-incher. Yeah. I mean, has hit the dirt already. That first trail camera picture that I saw, it's just crazy. It just comes straight out. Gosh, the beams, the main beams on that deer. So pretty cool. And then a couple of these elk that have been killed, just, you know, there was a gal that killed a giant, beautiful bull. Another guy who was actually our stone sheep hunt winner. Congrats to him. I mean, he killed a whopper of a bull for, that was the 440 bull, right? That was the 440 bull. Great things happen in the West. You know, speaking of, speaking of what we're looking at here, there's been some sheep hunts happening down in New Mexico. Yes. And that's going to lead us right into a phone call that I got a little while ago. Tell me about this phone call.

You know, every once in a while, we get the opportunity to have somebody call in. This is actually a first for me. I don't know if you've had this happen before, Chris, but we actually had somebody call in saying, hey, I listen to the podcast all the time. Here are you guys ranting and raving about different things, whatever. And he says, and he actually asked this of me. He's like, are you the guy that said that if you're not 30 years old, you shouldn't ever have a sheep tag? And I quickly corrected him. I said, nope, that was not me. I'm not even going to mention who that was. Okay. It was John. It was John. Cause I don't, I don't want people to think it was me. Right. Right. And so, so John was, John had mentioned in an earlier podcast that, you know, it's a kind of, and I get where he's coming from, where he feels bad that, you know, a 14, 15,

16 year old draws a sheep tag and a 70 year old dude's been trying his whole life and hasn't done it. So I get where he was coming from. And the kid may not appreciate what he's got. And the kid may not appreciate what he's got. But, but he said, oh yeah, like you need to be like 30 years old to, to draw a sheep tag or something like that. And so anyway, we got a phone call from, from Jason, not Jason Carter, different Jason. And he says, yeah. So, so was that you saying that? I said, no, that was John. And, and he says, well, I'm sitting here on Wheeler peak next to a ram I just killed and I'm 25. So anyway, we thought it'd be kind of a cool experience to get him on the phone and chat with him about it, chat with him a little bit about his hunting experience. I think he's got a pretty good ram in his hands. And anyway, we'll chat about it a little bit.

We're going to give him a call real quick.

Hopefully, you know, pardon my inability to work off. It is. It's just, it's fun to hear people's reaction in the moment. So it's, it's still pretty fresh.

Yeah, this is Jason. Jason. Hey, this is Jeff. Jeff, Jeff, John, Chris Peterson here. Hey, tell us about what you got going on today. Oh man, I, I can't believe it. So back when I got the draw results, I can't believe it that day. I drew real peak bighorn tag. So this is where it was kind of a breakdown. Yeah. So it's Northern New Mexico. So, um, and Northern Central, kind of above like Tows, um, area. Gotcha. Um, yeah. And like, ever since I threw that tag, I was like, I know I want to put in the effort. Um, essentially, you know, once in a lifetime opportunity ever getting to hunt bighorn sheep, rocking out bighorn sheep. Yeah. How many times do you put in for bighorn there every year? Or is this something that you just. Um, so I put in for it last year. So this is my second year ever putting in for bighorn sheep. That's nice. That's awesome. Um, yeah.

So I've really only been hunting about five years now. I'm only 25. Um, but yeah. Kind of a self-guided guy. Yes. Yeah. Um, my wife and I, we already do a bunch of backpacking. And then, um, when I found out I drew the tag, I knew that most of our summer, at least most of July was going to be dedicated to spending time up here, getting to know the unit and finding the biggest ram I could. There you go. Now tell us about that process. Yeah. So I spent, uh, I'll just count it up. I think it's my 23rd day up here on the mountain total. Wow. 23 days. Yeah. Um, I've seen, I don't even know how many rams, how many sheep, easily over a hundred rams total. Um, and then all the ewes and lambs, um, probably, yeah. If I had to guess 300 gram or not 300 gram, 300 sheep at a minimum is what I've been seeing up here. Um, and, and are you like, are you have a backpack camp?

I mean, what's your camp situation there? Yeah. So we have a camp four miles from the trailhead. Um, it's about, I think 3000 elevation, a few elevation above where the trailhead is. And then we're currently, I think about two miles or so from our camps. So we're, you're talking six miles. You're basically six miles in right now. Yep. And we're, we're in a pretty, pretty nasty place right now. There you go. But so you, you spent all summer trying to find a ram that you thought was worth the tag. And so you've dedicated a lot of time to this. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um, um, yeah, like after listening to your podcast, I knew that this, this year I wanted to shoot a substantial, very nice animal. And, uh, I plans on getting a really nice archery deer this year. I drew a really great tag, but once I drew this tag, I was the scouting for that kind of has gone away.

And, um, with me sitting right next to my ram right now, it seems like it's paid off. Yeah. So, so tell us how the hunt went. Like, uh, what, how did we end up at this point? Yeah. So, um, up until yesterday, there was one ram that I really, really liked. He was a, he was a little over, um, full curl. Um, he was just absolutely beautiful ram. Um, his curl was pretty tight. Um, but he was, he was just, just a really, really pretty ram. And then I had kind of had like a list of the rams that I'd be really happy with, but he was at the top of the list. Um, there was this other ram though. He was probably number five or six on the list. I'd only seen him by himself or like with really, really small rams before. Um, but he, he looked really good. Um, and then yesterday morning, the very first two rams that we saw were a ram that I would consider to, uh, you know, being that one 80, um, class.

And then I saw this ram with him. Um, it was the first time I'd ever seen him with a, another mature ram. And I was like, uh, my hunting buddy and I, uh, we were just like, that thing is an absolute giant. Um, but he was at a pretty horrible spot yesterday to, to harvest him. Um, but we just watched him all day and then we weren't able to ever find the ram that I was initially really wanting to go after. Um, but we ended up getting on this ram. Uh, yesterday we got to within about 400, 250 yards. And so we just weren't able to get a shot off. Um, and then a huge storm came in and, um, it just rained pretty much all afternoon and evening. And, um, we weren't able to get it done yesterday. Um, but then today we relocated him and we're just looking him over, looking over the sheep and like, that is a giant ram.

And, um, yeah, put a, from where we were to where he was about a mile away, we put, I don't know, probably a two mile sock all the way around the mountain came to, um, got down below him and, um, uh, it took a couple of shots, but the last shot I took was about 250 yards. And, um, here I sit. Well, I tell you, when I, for anybody there and I, and I, I'm, I'm going to, uh, you know, try to save face a little bit here. When I killed my Rocky here in Utah, um, well, the comment that I heard from a guy afterward is they were wondering if they needed to take a, take a mining claim out on the mountain to dig the copper out of the mountain from, I was so nervous when I actually came time because I'd spent a lot of, put a lot of time in it. You know, you get a lot of time into these hunts and, and by the time it's time to pull the trigger.

And, and if you're not in that like instinct situation, which I wasn't, cause the ram wasn't going anywhere. He was tending to you and he was just there. And, and boy, every time my heart beat, I got my gun down on him. My brother can attest to this. He was yelling at me. He's like, why aren't you shooting? And I'm like, cause every time my heart beats, my gun jumps two feet over the ram's back. Like I could not settle down enough. So, so no worries about, you know, it, you get a little buck fever, sheep fever, ram fever, whatever you want to call it. And, and, uh, it happens, you know, you know, last year, uh, in 2018, the best ram in that Wheeler peak unit was like 175 inch ram. Um, and, uh, I, you know, from the sounds of it, I think you, I think you got that ram beat a little bit, huh? Uh, I think just a little bit. Um, this is my first time ever scoring a big horn sheep.

Um, I don't think I've actually ever put my hands on a set of horns, um, ever before. Until right now. Um, but I've, I've taped him out three times. Um, just making sure like, cause I absolutely cannot believe the numbers I'm coming up with. Absolutely cannot believe it. Um, so I got 16 half inch bases and I, uh, he's at 41 inches long. Um, which I've re-taped. I've like, I've watched so many different videos and like done so much different research on, you know, how to, how to score them. And I, I'm pretty sure I'm doing it right. But I'm just in such shock. Like, I cannot believe it. We're, we're stoked about it. It was fun getting the call, man. You know, one of the first hunts out there, there's, there's not a lot of guys that have, uh, put something on the ground so far this year. And they've been, you know, a few rams have hit the dirt, uh, so far, but this is really

cool to hear one of the, you know, one of the first significant hunts in the West going down and, and, uh, a guy that is doing it on his own, you know, 25 years old, just out crushing it, um, with a heck of an animal in his hands. I think it's pretty cool. Yeah. I like tearing all the work you put in on it and doing it yourself. That's, it's gotta be pretty satisfying to make it happen. Oh, absolutely. I just, I don't know. There's just no words. I just cannot believe it. It's just unreal. And what a gamble, you know, you get a tag like that and the pressure's on, the pressure's on. Like you almost feel like, you know, when I was 24 and I had my sheep tag, I was like, like I'm broke. Like I'm broke at the time, man. I'm freaked. I'm in the apprenticeship, whatever. And I'm sitting there thinking, man, if I had the money, I'd hire a guy just so I knew what I was looking at. Right.

Because, you know, at that point, yeah, I hadn't looked at a ton of sheep, you know what I mean? And so you're, you're kind of, it's kind of a, you know, baptism by fire for, for lack of better words, where you're just in there in the unit, you're looking over sheep, you're trying to figure out what you're really looking at, you know, and, and, and not really knowing, um, not really knowing exactly what you got, you know, and one thing about my ram that I noticed when, uh, when I did finally decide this is the one I'm pulling the trigger on is just how big that ram was compared to some of the other rams around it. Right. Right. Yeah. It's a big factor. It's a big factor. And that sounds kind of like what you had is just, you know, he was a nice ram, but he moved from number five or six on the list to, to number one pretty quick. Once he got around some of those other sheep, for sure.

Well, that's cool, man. We're going to be expecting a, uh, a picture for the magazine and a story, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, you sent me a picture of the ram with you holding it there and boy, that, you know, that's a good looking, that's a good looking picture. I'm excited for you. You know, super pumped. I'm sure you're getting to the point where you're like, you know, it's kind of sitting in a, Hey, I did something big, but guess what? Now I got to get six miles off the mountain with a sheep and a cape and a head and I got to get this, some ice on this cape. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Fortunately, where our camp is, there's a lot of snow and ice left up there. So that won't be too much of an issue, but yes, definitely. The six miles is sounding pretty, pretty fun right now. So in your opinion, do you think that people under 30 should be able to draw sheep tags?

Oh man. So when I first called, um, I asked which Jeff, Jeff this was, cause I know from a previous, uh, podcast, um, the other Jeff had stated that, um, guys under 30, um, you know, might not be, shouldn't be able to draw sheep tags, but yeah. It's actually John, John, John is the guy. There's only one Jeff here, but, but the other, but my last name's John. And so a lot of people confuse us pretty easily. So, so yeah. Okay. And I guess the reason he was saying that is cause he thought, well, maybe those, those people don't appreciate what they've got. It kind of sounds to me like you, you appreciate what you've got. Absolutely. After 24 days of being hiked in on that mountain. Yeah. I'll bet you do. Yeah, absolutely. Definitely. You worked hard for it. Um, enjoy it. Cool. Well, thank you so much. All right. Hey, take it easy, Jason. We sure appreciate the call. All right.

Well, thank you so much for your time. Hey, catch you later. Bye. All right. You know, it's something special to actually get off a phone call with a guy like that and, uh, know that I, okay. Two years into it. Oh, I know there's guys out there that are their jaws on the ground like that little sucker. Yeah. John would be one of them. John, no offense, wherever you are. Sorry for, you know, sorry. But, but yes, because there's guys that have been dumping that, what, how, whatever the price of that tag is, $3,000, um, letting New Mexico sit on it for a month or however long for years. Been doing that for years, trying to draw, trying to draw that particular tag or other tags, uh, other bighorn sheep tags in New Mexico. And, and let's face it, you know, two years is awful lucky. Yeah. And this kid's story in general, I think it's very lucky. He's, he said he started hunting when he was 20.

He's now 25 and he's killed a giant sheep. He killed a big ram. Yeah. And you know, I mean, we'll see, we'll see how, how big the ram is once he gets them off the mountain. That'll be really fun to, to, you know, for somebody to get a good tape on him and see what he really scores at and everything like that. It'll be way cool to see how big that ram is. Um, but you know, how cool is it? Five years into it. Yeah. You've got a freaking ram down. I've been playing the game for 20 years and I have yet to draw a sheep tag. Yeah. Sometimes, you know, we do hear from guys call in and they're, they're bummed out about the situation. They're bummed out about drawing tags, you know, and sometimes I've found they just need to vent. Yeah. They just need to blow the sheep off because it costs real money. It's costing real money to apply for these states and, uh, and try to draw a tag.

So it's cool to hear a success story. Yeah, it is fun. I mean, it does. It gives, gives you hope too. If that guy can draw with two years of applying at it. Yeah. Then, then, I mean, it does happen. And like, you know, for, for everybody out there, New Mexico does not have a point system. So you are truly going in random, um, on that draw. But yeah, I mean, it is, it's pretty cool for a guy to be able to pull that tag. He was a resident of New Mexico. He is a resident of New Mexico. Um, so that gives him a little better odds of drawing it. A few more, a few more tags out there floating around for residents as opposed to non-residents. But what a neat opportunity for him to go out there and do it on his own. He put the time in and when you're 25, it's hard to, uh, you know, you're getting started in your career, uh, more than likely, uh, you know, we didn't get into that detail

with him, but, but likely he's getting started in a career. There's probably some serious demands at work, probably serious demands at home. You know, some guys even have, are starting at a young families at that age and, and to pull away for 24 plus days, um, on a hunt. That is not an easy thing to do. So kudos to Jason. I mean, sounds like he was fairly fortunate with his situation that his wife went along with him a lot on those scouting trips. And that, to me, that, that made that whole thing possible. Well, you're scouting with a backpack on. I mean, you're not sitting from the truck with the glasses, you know, he's, he's talking to have to go three, four miles into, to, you know, set, even set up camp. And then a couple of miles from there where he killed the ram, but, but yeah. And to make that trip as often as he did and be able to put that time in, it's truly something

that, that, you know, should be admired, um, for a guy that's, I mean, let's face it dang lucky, but making the most of it. I would also say it was a gamble to go unguided. If I, if I were to have drawn that tag, man, I'd look at it and say, you know what, for what I have, I'm probably better off trying to scrape up the money and figure out how to go guided. Um, yeah. Just, just because making that investment. Well, just making that investment because I'm not from New Mexico personally. Like he is. Yeah, he is. And I'd probably handle it differently if I was from New Mexico, but. And you might not too though. Yeah, but you might not. Those guys, that's what they do. They live to sheep hunt. They're down there all the time. They're looking at those Rams. Um, they know what those Rams look like. They know how to score those Rams.

I mean, Rams up here, uh, we, we can go down here and look at Rams closer to our area and they're going to be different than, than the New Mexico Rams. They're going to be built different, everything like that. And you know, everything's super easy until something moves. And, and if you don't have that prior experience of saying, Hey, you know, these Rams, when it's super hot and dry, they're here after it rains. Like it sounds like he had a little bit of after rains, well, they don't, you know, they're not needing any kind of moisture or anything like that, or they're not watering or, you know, they might move here. You know, you are taking the gamble that we go on unguided saying, you know, a Ram could pick up, move around a, move around a part of a mountain that, that you've never been on. The Rams never been on, you know, as the season progresses, who knows whether it's bugs,

whether it's, whether it's weather, whether it's whatever it is, it can change things. And if you don't have the experience on the mountain, it's going to change how you have to hunt that animal. So that'll come from years of, of watching these same Rams. And that's what the guides have. And so it's like, it would be hard, you know, I mean, it'd be hard to just gamble and go DIY, but you know, kudos to him. I mean, big kudos to him. It's cool that he, he took the gamble. He looked over a lot of sheep. Um, okay. When I had my tag, my sheep tag, big horn tag here in Utah, I couldn't, there was not enough sheep that I could really look at like that were dead. You know, I, I went over to people's houses that had killed sheep. I looked at their Rams. I picked, you know, I went and checked dead heads that people had just sitting around and

just put them in my hands, you know, different things like that. Cause I really just want to be mentally prepared. And I'm telling you, when I got on the mountain, was looking at sheep, I still didn't know what I was looking at. Yeah. Yeah. I had no idea. Right. So like I videoed around the second day of the hunt. The second day I was there, uh, me and my dad came around on these Rams and found some sheep and then went up on top, get great video footage. I honestly had the Ram in my scope and was thinking about killing him. Um, like for like 15 minutes, I, I was looking through my rifle scope. I was super tempted to, to get the job done then. Um, I didn't, um, afterward, I, I had a little bit of regret. Not doing it. 15 days later, I felt like I started to have a lot of regret, not doing 14 days actually later. I felt like I was starting to have a lot of regret.

And yes, at the time, the season was a month long. I was grinding out, you know, I'd go to work for three days and I'd go hunt all, you know, hunt, hunt, whatever, Thursday through Sunday after that. And I did that all month, you know, the whole month of November. Um, but, uh, but yeah, you know, I was really starting to get nervous that last little while, whether I made a mistake on that first ram or not. And that's where it was literally, uh, boy, if I could have paid a guy to go and, and the amount of time that I had into it, you know, I might've been able to pay for a guy. I might've been able to pay for two guided hunts for, for the cost of getting me and everybody down there and buying people hotel rooms, setting up food and everything and, and the fuel and the time off work. I mean, just you gave time off work.

I could have bought, yeah, we could have bought some serious guide time, but, uh, but yeah, it was, it is truly a different, you know, it is truly a great experience. Um, sheep hunting at all. And I don't care if you do it with a guide, if you do it on your own, it's an experience that you're, you're going to look back on forever as, as something really cool because you did something that not a lot of guys get to do. Let's face it. There's a giant bottleneck on that Rocky, uh, for your Rocky, for your slam on that, on for Rocky. And it's just to have one down on the ground at 25 years old or at 75 years old, who cares? You did something awesome. Uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's great when you're guided. It's great when you're DIY. There's advantages to both. I'm not trying to talk anybody into doing the guided hunt. I'm not trying to talk anybody out of it. I'm saying it's pretty much cool.

However you do it, the way this kid did it is freaking cool. Yeah. Way neat. Definitely. On his own. It's definitely something that I have a lot of respect for that kid. He's put in the work, gambled on himself and it paid off. So you started telling about your, your sheep hunt, right? Oh, and I even talked about, and I swear I wouldn't ever talk about it again. I talked about the, the mining claim on the mountain. I did say that. I shouldn't have. I just wanted to make him feel better about missing the ram if it took him a couple shots. But my question about that was how many days before you actually killed? And then tell me in relation to that ram you passed, like how did it all turn out in relation to the ram you passed? So that ram that I passed, so we, we found him on the second day.

We were hiking up into a, you know, we're just going on a long trip up to the corner of the unit that was road, that's roadless right there. So anyway, I drew, so I drew the rattlesnake. Well, they call it the rattlesnake, but it's actually the Book Cliffs in Utah, Book Cliffs Sheep. Book Cliffs South, I think is the actual name of it now. So, but it was the, they called it the rattlesnake unit at the time, but, so yeah, got there the first day, looked at a lot of rams, you know, driving around. It was, you know, it was the, oh, probably the best, the peak of that unit because sheep, you'll find that they're really cyclical. Like they, you know, they just, sheep just seem like they want to die of different causes, whatever. However, they just aren't that, aren't that really healthy because of the mixing with the domestic sheep, right?

This ram that I had, we were hiking up into this area the second day of the hunt. Of course, I knew it was going to be a grind out hunt, planned on it. And, you know, we glassed these three rams up, went over, sat on top of them. And the ram that I liked had a, he had a collar on. So that was another thing that, that kind of, I don't know now if he didn't have the collar, if I would have shot him or not. I still don't think I would have shot him.

Because I knew what I was, I didn't really know what I was looking for. I knew what I was, I knew, I thought I knew what I was looking for, but I didn't really know what I was looking at. You know, it was, after I took the video, because I took great video, of course, you know, I'm sitting there at 130 yards, up on top of a cliff, watching the ram below us. I took the video and showed it to some people, and I had several people say, oh yeah, that's a 170 inch plus ram. And in Utah, a 170 to 175 ram is kind of your target mark. You know, if you make it a 175, you did really good in Utah. Now, granted, we're going to kill some 180s, and there were some 190s killed after that point. But, at that time, you know, a 170 was a big ram. We had a lot of deciding to do right then. I passed him, and I had a lot of guys come down and help. You know, some guys that knew sheep, some guys that didn't.

I got a lot of information from, there were some local guides. You know, Troy Justison, he was there, him and Greg Bird. Great dudes, I really, really like those guys. They were there with some clients. I showed the ram, I showed the ram to them, like, the night after that. And they looked at him, they're like, I could see the look in their face when I showed them a picture of this ram. When I showed them the video of this ram, I could see the look in their face, like, you done screwed up, kid. You done screwed up. You know what I mean? But they were both like, well, if you're, depends on what you're really looking for, you know? Like, if you're, you know, and I was like, ugh. I mean, just let the air out of me. You know what I mean? Because I could see it in their face, like, you probably should have killed them. But, you know, I didn't. So, I looked over a lot of sheep.

I had a situation where we were looking at 50 plus rams a day. The unit was good. I mean, it felt like, they claimed there was only 250 sheep on the unit. And I'm telling you, there was days where I thought I saw 75 plus rams a day. Like, I think there was more sheep. Not more sheep than they knew, but more sheep than they'd recorded. Maybe it'd been a few years since they'd done the fly count or anything like that. But I felt like there was a lot of sheep. I mean, it was the highlight. I think it was the true peak of that unit. And, you know, guys started killing rams around me. Guys that I'd talked to because there was kind of, there's a couple main roads, corridors. And so, you get to talk to guys. And, you know, I'm looking at a ram up on a mountain. He's kind of chipped out and different things. And I'm like, I'm passing on him.

Well, later that day, another guy that was running around, he kills him. Turns out he's 173 incher. And I'm like, man, did I make a mistake? Well, the guys I was with, some of the guys I worked with, you know, very, very accomplished hunters. They're like, dude, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm looking for a giant, but I don't know what I'm looking for. Right? So, anyway, that's just the situation I was in. You know, and I became suddenly very indecisive. You know, I would see a ram from a distance and I'd be like, man, I want to kill that ram. And we'd get up to it and I'd realize that ram doesn't have the bases I thought he did. You know, yes, he's long. He looks great. He's not holding his mask, though. And so then I'd pull off and we'd go after another ram. Do the same thing over and over and over. I mean, and so basically on those trips down, it was, I mean, it was a grinder.

I mean, I was, we were looking at sheep after sheep. Guys ended up not even liking hunting with me because it was, because I was passing a lot of sheep. But, and you know, I, yeah, I mean, you can ask anybody that was around, whatever at the time. It was, you know, I was looking for something that I was just no brainer. That's what I wanted to kill. And I have done that before on other tags and I still regret doing it to a point. But, but anyway, so still grinding out, got down to what was the Friday of the last weekend. Only two days left in the hunt. Like, so three days left in the hunt total. And well, I was at four days left in the hunt and I see a ram. Saw it from a distance. It was walking to us though, up on a rim, up on a big rock ledge. He came around the corner. Just so happened there were some guys, Troy Justison and Greg Bird. They were following us up the river.

You know, they were behind us coming up the river and I saw the ram and I'm like, hey, what do you think about that ram? And they're like, hmm, that's probably a shooter. You're like, you probably ought to be killing that. You know, of course, with four days left in the hunt, you got to really think about that. The ram comes around the corner and he is only at like 80 yards. Well, 80 to 100 yards. But he's straight up the mountain. And I'm having to wait until he gets to a spot where I don't have to worry because he's straight up a cliff, right? I don't have to worry about him. I didn't really want him to fall, you know, 80 feet off the cliff. You know what I mean? And so I was waiting until he got at a good gap. He hits a gap and I think it's perfect because it's a little bit more mellow right there on that cliff edge. Because it's just a little rim that he's just following.

And I take a shot and he runs off. Well, he instantly runs behind the next section of cliff. I don't see him. I don't see him again. He's just gone. And luckily, we had a camera rolling at the time and videoed it. And so we went back and replayed the footage. And sure enough, you just see this little tough hair on his back go poof. Like just right up in the air. And you just, and then you see the hair fall. And I'm like, it was right off the tip of his back. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I missed. And he's gone. He is running down this rim and he ain't stopping for nothing. I'm like, oh, I'm not going to chase him. Like I'll let him go. I'll come back. And anyway, so we went down, came back, glassed for him, couldn't find him.

Went back to the hotel that night pretty disgusted with myself. Not feeling too hot about my shot. But just shot over him, you know, just at that angle. I didn't, I should have put it under, you know, just right at the bottom of his body. I held right where I normally would. You know what I mean? And you're shooting that. I mean, the distance might have been the equivalent of like a 40-yard shot or something like that. If you did the angle compensation, somebody out there with a true angle compensation thing is going to be cussing me right now. But anyway, so came back the next day and here's Ram. Driving up the canyon. It's just me and my brother at this time. And here's the Ram 200 yards off the road. Same Ram. Same Ram. And he's got a couple other Rams with him. And I'm looking at him. I'm like, yeah, he's a no-brainer shooter. I mean, big bodied.

Feels like his body's twice the size of the other Rams around him. Obviously, an older Ram. Something I needed to, you know. So it was game on after that. But then it was the next 15 minutes just trying to get my heartbeat lowered enough to pull the trigger. And I'm telling you, I dead rest on the front, dead rest on the back. I touched the gun and my heartbeat, it must have been in my hand. My heartbeat was hitting so hard. That gun was literally jumping off the top of that Ram's back. I've never experienced anything like that. I was disgusted by it. I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do. Like, my brother's looking at me like, shoot. Normally, it's the exact opposite. We see a coyote or something. He's with me. Like, the gun's off before he's like. But no, I couldn't settle down. Couldn't settle down.

And so anyway, then I got made fun of after that for filling the mountain full of it. But first shot, I hit him. Hit him right, you know, lower in the chest than I'd like to have. The gun I was using was a little hopped up. It was souped up pretty good. I think we had her loaded a little hot. In fact, in the video, you can see one of the bullets going through the Ram and exploding on a rock about 100 yards behind the Ram. It was just, the bullets weren't expanding. They were holding their weight too much and just flying right through. But yeah, it was a super fun hunt. I mean, but when you got those big tags, the big pressures on. And you hate that it can take away some of the fun, but you wouldn't trade it in the world. You never trade that experience. You know, I mean, you've had some, even though Arizona, you know, you have a chance of drawing those elk tags.

But you sit there with a muzzleloader in your hand and had some stress. Oh yeah, a lot. I mean, you've got years and years behind it. And then you show up and it's not, sometimes not all you imagined. That's how it was for me. I mean, I showed up down there and it was just, I'm thinking this is, I waited all these years for this. And it was one of the toughest years that we've had in the recent past down there. The bulls just weren't where they were supposed to be. Super dry and it was just unseasonably warm. So it was 70 degrees on the late season. And just, the bulls just were not out. And that was a November hunt. Yeah. And it was 70 degrees. Yeah. I mean, all the guides that typically guide there told me, they just said, this is not normal. Usually it's 30 degrees this time of year. Yeah. And those bulls are going to act different. Yeah.

And we're out there with short sleeve shirts on mid seventies and no elk. So yeah, there's a lot of pressure. And yeah, when you get in those situations where you finally do have a chance after all that pressure, it is pretty tough sometimes to not get nervous and to just make it happen. You know, anytime you get a lot of time invested in these tags and then you draw, you know, you do put the pressure on yourself and you, oh, and I know there's people judging us. I get it. You're judging that we're putting too much pressure about killing a big animal, whatever. But, you know, if when you're that much time invested, I don't care if it's a big animal, small, I don't care what it is. You feel pressure, right? To, to make something happen. If you go to Alaska on a dull sheep hunt and you put $25,000 into it between travel and

the cause of the hunt, you feel some pressure, you know, you're pressured to perform, pressure to do it right, pressure to, pressure to make it happen. Um, you know, $45,000 stone sheep hunt. That's, that's a pressure. Uh, once in a lifetime tagging Utah, I'm telling you, it's a pressure. Well, and also think about how much time we put into thinking about hunting and preparing for hunting and applying and planning our, our next hunt. Like that, there's so much that goes into, into a hunt when you finally have that tag and it's only, let's say it's only a five day hunt. Yeah. That is a lot of pressure. It is a lot of pressure. You got to get it done in five days. Yeah. And you've just been, your whole life has been wrapped up in, and now it comes down to these five days. Yep. Five days to make it happen. It's a lot.

Um, and granted we hate taking the, you hate taking the fun out of it, but you know, it's just like, uh, you know, somebody going into a game, like my kid's playing, you know, little league baseball and he's standing on the pitcher's mound. Well, there was a lot of preparation that went into the next, I mean, he's going to throw 50 to 90 pitches, whatever it be. And, uh, there's a lot of time, effort and, and whatnot, even though it's a game, it's supposed to be fun and everything like that. There's a lot of pressure, like, right. Same thing, same concept going into the hunting. Um, I think the trick is, is not to make every hunt a grinder like that. Yeah. Mix it up a little bit. Do a couple antelope hunts and some bear hunts. And you want to know what's fun? Man, it's going with your buddy that has that tag and you know, what kind of pressure he's in.

And you're sitting here with a smile on your face the whole time laughing because you're here to be a part of a sheep hunter and elk hunter, you know, something like that. My buddy that had that, that elk tag on beaver last year. Oh man, that was the funnest on ever because guess what? I didn't have the tag in my hand. I wasn't stressed about it. I was just having a good time hunting elk. You know, we were having a blast, bull screaming. But it was wild and he's sitting there just, just stressed every day. Cause all of a sudden he's got a muzzleloader and he's got to make it happen on a big bull, you know? And so anyway, it's super fun. That one of my favorite things in the world is going hunting with people that have a great tag. It's so much fun. I mean, it, it's a great opportunity. So if anybody out there have a buddy that has a good tag, go along because you're going to be loving it.

Every minute he's sweating, you're laughing. It's so much fun. But anyway, so what else we got to cover here, Chris? So, so my original question was at the end of the day, would you have done it differently or are you glad? Not a chance. Okay. I'm glad I did. I'm glad I passed. Yeah. I'm glad I did. I mean, and the ram I killed was probably bigger than that ram. Um, but that's not the only reason, you know what I mean? If I had killed a ram that was smaller than that ram, I still, I still loved it because, because I truly experienced and luckily I had a job. I could get away with that, but I truly experienced, you know, um, 15 days during the season grinding out a hunt. You know what I mean? Um, but through over the course of a month, you know, I had to drag that out, but, but true 15 days during the hunt that I was able to.

Well, and you got to look at sheep, you got to be out in the field, you got to hike around and see things. And, and it's not very often that we get to just go out and spend that kind of time on the mountain doing what we love. So, so every day that you're out there, even though you're, there's a little bit of pressure that you haven't killed, it's still enjoyable and still fun. It's still something that you don't get to do very often. Yeah. And you know, and then what, two years ago, my brother draws a tag across the river from where I was at, went down to the same thing. We ground out about 15 days with it, you know, almost 15 days, like 13 days with his hunt and ended up killing, killing a great ram. And then, uh, here my dad is with the tag this year and we're going to go the same place, you know, same, you know, my brother was in just right across the river from where I was.

Um, and I'm guessing we're going to grind out 13 to 15 days with him too. So anyway, we're going to see like, it's super fun. Uh, you know, super excited to do it. Uh, you know, we get these opportunities and, and, um, we want to make the most of them because you don't get a lot of them and you never know when that opportunity, you know, and, and part of the thing that always scares you is, and you hear it too much, you know, in this office, I hear it more than I'd like to, where guys are just like, you know, I'm just getting to the point where I can't do this, that, or this, that, or the other anymore. Or, or, you know, I've had to make some sacrifice, so I can't do this, that, or the other anymore. And so, um, you know, you've got to truly be thankful for what you're doing when you're doing it. Um, and going into the season, I hope, you know, I hope we all get a chance to do that,

you know, take advantage of it and have fun, um, make it worth it. Yeah. So, so I'm kind of wrapping up. Um, I want to go back to, we talked to Jason on the phone, um, who had the sheep tag. And I think so much of hunting is you do get what you put into it a lot of times. And he, he went early, he, he put in the work, he put in the hours, he scouted. And because of that, it paid off. I mean, it doesn't always pay off, but it doesn't always pay off, but it's a heck of a lot more likely to pay off if you do put in that work. Yeah. Yep. And, and at the end of the day, you can look back and say, Hey, I gave that hunt what I had. Yeah. I left nothing on the table, you know, uh, you left nothing on, you know, and whether you're doing that in business or whether you're doing it in, in, you know, as a younger person in sports or, or, or whatever, whatever you're doing that.

And as long as you can look back and say, Hey man, I gave it what I got. You know, that's a successful hunt. Well, and then, uh, wrapping up here, I'd like to send a shout out here to St. James sporting properties. Um, I don't know if any, a lot of guys know Blaine. He goes to a lot of the, the sportsman shows and different things like that. Does some advertising. Anyway, he specializes in selling, uh, trophy hunting and fishing properties. You know, a lot of stuff in Colorado, lots of stuff across the West. Um, and Blaine is a good dude and he, he practices what he preaches. He's out there hunting. I mean, he's out there, you know, grinding. He knows what to look for when it comes to quality. I mean, the guy shot, I think he shot a moose last year with his bow in, uh, in Wyoming. Just, he's a great guy, a serious hunter. He knows what he's looking at when he tells you about a property.

He knows what he's telling you. Um, way, the best way to get ahold of Blaine is to either email him at Blaine and that's B L A Y N E at SJ sporting properties.com or give him a call at 9 7 0 5 9 6 6 0 8 9. Once again, that number is 9 7 0 5 9 6 6 0 8 9. Also, if you need a new hunting knife, check out Outdoor Edge. We're, we love their products. Um, I've been using them personally for the last few years and I've always been a one that I was not a fan of the razor knives at all because for a living I was filming hunts for a few years. Right. Yeah. And I cannot tell you how many, how many blades came flying past my face. Well, you're, you're getting this awesome shot. Yeah. And here comes a blade. Or, or, or what really happens is they're like, ah, put the camera down, hold that leg up. Right. So they're hacking on a quarter and the blade flies by me.

Well, so I got to the point where I, I wanted nothing to do with those exchange or the replaceable blade knives. Yeah. Until I went on a hunt with Jeff in Idaho and I saw the Outdoor Edge knife and the blade was just thicker, sturdier, stronger, and it clips in and it's not going to come out and it's not going to break. And so as soon as I saw that, I thought I needed to try this out. And so I ended up getting myself a couple Outdoor Edge knives and I have loved them and been great. If you need a knife, go to outdooredge.com. They've got a whole selection of different knives. Great stuff. So check those out. They have a great product. Outdooredge.com. Well, let's get out of here. Let's go check some cameras or something. Okay.