EP 138: Meet Our Newest Staff Member, Devin Archibald

It's the time of year we're back full-time, where all of our hunts are over, all of us. We've got a pre-plan. They are extremely tough to find. You know, everybody has different values. What makes their hunt great. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Well, hello everybody out there. Adam Bronson here, Wyatt Bowles, Chris Peterson, and Devin Archibald, Here's a new episode of the Epic Outdoors podcast, coming at you from Cedar City today. And we got a special guest today. We're actually going to call Mr. Jason Carter, so we'll see if he answers the phone. But we first off want to thank Under Armour for sponsoring this podcast, as they do all the time. Great partners of ours, and appreciate them being a part of the Epic Outdoors crew and our team and what we're putting together here. So, let's see if we can get Mr. Carter on board.

What's going on? Not much. Sounds like you got four big tires rolling down the highway. Yeah, more like eight. Truck and trailer. Well, where are you headed, boss? We just had a quick introduction, and you're MIA today. Let everybody know where you're at. Yeah, well, my niece drew a sheep tag down here in Nevada. So, anyway, she's 19 years old, and I'm cruising down to help her out. It's one of these late hunts. Anyway, you know, it's, I guess, the last hunt of the year. Yeah, as if missing Thanksgiving wasn't enough, you're going to try to miss Christmas and see how that goes with Jana, huh? No, no. In fact, Jana is pretty funny. Last night, she was like, hey, so I guess Christmas Eve is off, huh? And I'm like, no, Christmas Eve isn't off. I'm gonna be back for Christmas Eve. And she's like, okay, I just didn't know how important this sheep hunt was.

I'm with your niece. She's my niece-in-law. She's your blood niece, however that works, but it's her brother's daughter, so you're like, I'm helping your niece, Sonny. What do you want me to do? I'm with family. Yeah, that's right. Get, serve, and give, not receive and take. All right, well, we're all here. We got, I guess, as far as the podcast goes, we just wanted to introduce our listeners to one of our new Epic Outdoors hunting consultants, Devin Archibald. You may have read in the December issue, had a good introduction there, but let's get to know you a little bit, Devin. Everybody pull the gloves off. Let's go. Let's do it. So, first off, I guess, tell us a little bit about yourself for those that maybe aren't members of Epic Outdoors. We'll get into it here at the end about what you're going to be doing here for us primarily,

but tell us about your background, who you are, where you came from, and I guess what you stand for. Yeah, I probably should say I probably have a couple of names. Devin Archibald, but Wyatt calls me Archie, Archibald, so... Okay. That's probably... I had friends for years that didn't know my name was really Devin. They thought it was Archie, huh? I've always called you Archie. There's still some today that probably don't know. Oh, really? Did you know that, Chris? Yeah, I knew, but I sometimes call you Archie. No, I've been hunting my whole life. I was lucky as a kid. We had a little bit of property in Utah, and I'd follow my dad around. We had any bull unit, so we got a tag every year. Every year, yep. Yep, ever since I was a little kid. What part of Utah were you born and raised in? Spanish Fork. Spanish FERC. All right. Utah County there. Yep, Southern Utah County.

And anyway, so you lived here your whole life for the most part, and you and Wyatt, did you meet Wyatt first as far as our crew goes? Did you guys go to college together? Is that where you guys met, you and Wyatt, or did you know before that? Yeah, we actually met guiding for Doyle Moss. Archibald started at a very young age guiding there for Doyle, I guess as a cameraman is how he started there. Well, this reminds me, the first hunt I ever did, he called me, I was 15, I think. I was building a treehouse for paintball. We were paintballing, and we were building a treehouse. I still remember, and I was like, who's calling me, you know? I wonder how we got, how did he get your number? Did you have a connection? By the way, we're not going to turn you in, Doyle, if you're listening for breaking child labor laws or anything.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. It's like a tree house, Doyle starts a young boy. Yeah, I was friends with his son Cameron. Okay, so he knew you. You just didn't say, hey, there's a kid in a tree house, I wonder if he can film hunts. Let's stop and ask that kid. I didn't even drive to the hunt. You know what I mean? But yeah, I met Wyatt in 2007. Was that 2007? Deer hunting? Yeah, yeah. Henry Mountain's 2007. Good times. I met Adam and Shane, same trip down there. Yeah, we did. We had a meeting on the mountain. I think I fed you dinner the first time we met, right? You did, yeah. I'm not that bad a guy. Anyway. I can't get over a dad building a tree house that's got a cell phone in its back pocket. Really? Did you have your mom's chargeable? I probably had my mom's cell phone. From the house, the landline out in the tree hut. Well, that's pretty good.

Well, anyway, so you took the job, I guess, it was just to shadow Doyle or whoever else was guiding some kind of hunt? Yep, first hunt was with Denny Oz Ted, I was with Shan Ogden, and we killed a 408. I was on a point. Wow. And I was like, this is awesome, you know, Utah limited entry, it's not any bull unit anymore. You probably got to miss school, because 15, you were like a freshman or sophomore in high school. I missed a lot of school. Wow. Back Back in the heyday of Utah's elk. 2007 was pretty much there. It was just maybe starting to fade slightly, but it was the heyday. So, then pretty much, I guess you finished high school. Fast forward, you and Wyatt, I guess, went to school a little bit together. I remember college days, but then pretty much right out of high school, you were guiding for Doyle, right?

Yep, yep. So, that was the year I graduated. And then 2008, we went to Snow College. And then, yeah, I always wanted to go to school here in Cedar City at SUU, and here we are. So, I mean, I graduated. It took me a long time, because I never went. I wasn't going to go to school in the fall. You took the falls off, so you had winter and spring. Yeah, and I probably should have done a couple more summer semesters. That's what I did. Took the fall off and took winter and summer. Gotcha. Yeah, it was a long process. But yeah, I did it. I finished. I was 29 years old. Gotcha. Well, that's great. You stuck to it. What have you... So, where is your main interest? You guide deer and elk mainly, but what charges your batteries the most? That's a tough one. Yeah, deer. I mean, walking up on a big deer, you can't beat it. You just can't beat it. A big, big mule deer.

Yeah, that's great. So, you spend a lot of your time... I mean, you started to guide here in Utah, but you also probably now more spend more of your time in Nevada, don't you? Yeah, I went to Nevada. I think the first time I went to Nevada was 2009, and I just loved it, fell in love with it. So, you take early and late hunters over there and crush a bunch of bunks, and then elk later, which we teased you a little bit about that, those late, cold hunts around Ely in November, early December. Oh, yeah, freezing to death. This year was three in a row, back-to-back-to-back, next season elk. Yeah, it sounds like a 10 years to life sentence to me. Yeah, it's miserable. But, both Devin and Wyatt that we've hired here in the last year, year and a half, they hunt a lot.

And they have had a lot of experience in the hunting world for their age, which I would still, I mean, they're roughly 10 years younger than me. So, that's, you know, I call them young bucks, I guess, because I'm feeling older. But for their age, they've experienced a lot, I guess is what I'm trying to say. And that's probably what's drawn us to them a little bit, wouldn't you say, Jason, their depth of experience for, despite them not being 55, I mean, you know, they've accomplished a lot and seen a lot and been around a lot of clients, both, you know, from like an application standpoint and a hunting standpoint. Yeah, 100%. I just passed some cops, so, you know, not supposed to be talking on a cell phone. Well, I think you're in that little stretch of Arizona down there, so I think it's legal to talk for the three miles, and then you're back in Nevada, so we're good.

No, but yeah, they're gone now, so it's all good. No, I think it's pretty impressive. These guys have done a great job. In fact, everybody we called about, oh, Archie, would have hired him back in three seconds if he'd do it, so he came highly recommended. You know, and it's just impressive. I think we got an impressive lineup there. He's a great guy out there in the office, and he's done a great job. It's not like we're just out to hire guides, but boy, it sure does allow him to spend a lot of time in the hills. And we're going to lean on him. I don't want anybody to think he's not full-time. He's full-time with Epic Outdoors, although he'll be probably guiding a little bit in the fall, and we'll probably curb that. We're gonna expect a lot, too. So, anyway, he's a great addition to what we got going on at Epic Outdoors.

No question about it. And, you know, him and Wyatt go back a long ways. And even though Wyatt runs in a rough crowd, we got a pretty good feel about ORT. Yeah, it is. We give these guys a hard time, mainly. Jason and I, and I guess, well, John. Just a little bit about being bachelors and wondering every weekend where they're going And when we're gonna see him, or if we're gonna see him back in one piece, he's three. Plus, we had to kinda, you know, after all Wyatt's kidney stones, you know, we had to kinda go looking at some health insurance. I'm just wondering what kinda problems Archie's had. You and I, Bronson, haven't had any problems. We're getting old. I don't know what it is with the younger generation. Maybe they drank out of plastic bottles too long.

Yeah, I don't know. That plastic's probably leaching stuff into their bloodstream. That's right. All that bottled, pure, quote, pure water. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure Archie's got some things we need to learn about him, but so far, so good. Everything seems to be good. Yeah, and as far as, I guess, maybe we'll just introduce what it is we're gonna do. You guys have known Jeff, John, here at Epic Outdoors. Devin's gonna step in and help in that arena there. He's gonna work primarily with our outfitters, and with both book and hunts in the draw areas, but also outfitters that have tags of a guaranteed nature, whether that be in the lower 48 states or Canada and Alaska. Stay on top of their openings, be the network contact with them, So, we can have fresh inventory of current openings that people can book, whether it be deer, elk, antelope, sheep, moose, goat, everything in western North America.

That's going to be Devin's primary responsibility. Jeff's going to help him a little bit there, as Jeff's got some other projects going. But that's what we hired Devin for primarily. Now, anybody that's been in our office here knows that there's a lot of cross-crossing going on, between cross from cross, working with even license app, uh, consulting on the phone. I mean, like we talked about, Devon. I mean, you've hunted Utah your whole life. You've hunted a lot of units in Nevada. If there's people calling to pick your pick brain on 111 or 115 to 221 to 223 out, you're going to be well equipped to answer those questions and even some of the, a lot of the deer units over there. So, it's not like it's just going to be...nobody here at Epic Outdoors is pigeonholed into one little job responsibility. I mean, Chris might be in charge of, you know, the podcast and a lot of our digital platforms, social media, helping John graphically on the magazine, but then all of a sudden, the phone call rings,

and it's somewhere where Chris is hunted before, and we love sending Chris a call just because. And Chris, I think, probably enjoys a little bit, too. Yeah, it's fun. Oh, Chris loves it. Chris loves taking calls. It is fun to talk to guys once in a while, and I enjoy it. Well, I guess just what I was trying to impress is that everybody here is fairly well-rounded. Nobody's expected to just do one thing, clock out, and go home. There's a lot of interacting in a lot of different places. I mean, even you, Devin, you're going to end up talking with guys that are in our licensed app service or clients that haven't drawn anything, or they're waiting to find out draw results,

You're helping strategize this or that before you can bug a hunt with you, or you're working with people in the states like New Mexico or Nevada that have guide draw tags and helping them get set up with somebody to apply with. So, anyway, a lot of different facets you'll be working on, but primarily that's what we got Devin doing for us. So, we're looking forward to what you can add to the team here, which the show seasons are coming up here. And we'll be at the sheep show, the Western Hunting Conservation Expo. And so, make sure you introduce yourself to Wyatt and Archie, I guess. I'm the better looking one of the two. Well, that might be true. You just rolled over quick, Wyatt. You just rolled over. I better be careful. I have known Wyatt for a long time. Yeah, we're kind of probably holding back a little bit here.

Well, yeah, they are, and I think they were nervous, because I think Devin's heard about our inaugural introduction with Wyatt, and Wyatt alluded to it a minute ago. I don't know how long we had him on, maybe an hour, but today he said he thought he talked for 90 seconds, or maybe two minutes. He got a few words in edgewise there, but not much with you two just going back and forth. I don't remember being that hard on him. Do you, Jace? I mean, we were hard, but I don't think it was 98% of the talking was you and I. No, but it was probably 96, and with Wai Wai, it's pretty easy. He just leaves himself wide open. Archie's been reserved, and Chris has prepped all these guys to be careful, because we've ripped this for so long.

And basically, it's just old men living vicariously through these guys. But no, they've got the world by the tail, and I think we're doing really well at Epic Outdoors. We appreciate all our support. I want to make sure everybody understands we are a booking agency, although we talk a lot on our podcasts about applying and drawing and theories and strategies and all of these things, we also work with outfitters on guaranteed tags. And that's what Archibald's main focus will be. Of course, he wears all these different hats. We all do. And of course, Adam and I help guys book hunts too. Adam, you were on the phone aggressively just last week, booking people on sheep hunts, and we do that. I'm working with guys on deer hunts and elk hunts and whatnot, but of course, Devin's main focus will be keeping us up to date on these things.

And Wyatt does a lot with the License Application Service now, as this season gets started, but of course, he's working on booking hunts, too. So, anyway, I think that's important to remember. If there's guys out there that don't have points, There's guys out there looking to just, you know, supplement their draws with guaranteed tags and booking hunts. And that's what we do here at Epic Outdoors. Anything Western big game, you know, we do it if we can do it. And anyway, so, it's awesome. We got a great team. We got young guns, so to speak. We got some younger guys, mid-30s, that are cranking, doing great, and really have proven themselves to have great work ethic, He's going to be honest, clean, good dudes, and that's what we want here on our team, to keep things going.

But anyway, we're going to definitely give him a hard time. We don't want to push him out the office here too quick, you know, today, and have him run off. But anyway, good dude. Absolutely. So, Devin, you've been here for, oh, maybe, even since the hunt's wound down, I guess, full-time, month, month and a half, something like that. But we're already, and I don't mean to put you on the spot too much, but we're already getting, it's the time of year we're back full-time. All of our hunts are over, all of us. And one of the main things that you've been doing is starting to reach out to some of these outfitters and about letting them know what openings you got. You know, it's the time of year that, like Jason said, some people, the draws, for some people, that's their hunting. You know, it's the mercy of the draw. But other people, they want to know they have something next year.

Whether that's a $2,000, you know, guided antelope hunt somewhere, or if it's a $40,000 stone sheep, or brown bear, or whatever. Maybe if you can think of a couple of the hunts that we have right now. We usually send out weekly email alerts for hunts, which I know you've been doing. And maybe tell our listeners what might be on the front burner right now that you can think of. I mean, we have pretty much everything. But a couple maybe the highlights that maybe aren't going to last that long. Yeah, I mean, we even had Mexico stuff that's happening in two or three weeks. You know what I mean? That's right. I forgot about those. Very few. The last email was Alaska, you know, doll sheep. You were looking for doll sheep stuff last week, and that's getting tough, you know. Guys will call in and say, hey, am I too early on this? It's never too early, in my opinion.

Yeah, the economy is doing very well, I mean, in general. And so, the trend is generally when that's the case, these hunts, especially some of the more, I guess you would call them bucket list type hunts, You know, a sheep, a doll sheep, a grizzly bear, a brown bear, Alaska Yukon moose, they're booking a little further out. If you called right now and say, I want to go doll sheep hunting in 2020, like we had some calls here a few weeks ago, we got a scrambling because it's hard, and we found a couple of openings, but it took a couple, it took a lot of digging. It's getting harder and harder. Yeah, you know, anybody in 2020, you know, is probably full. Probably full. You get a little juggling around, but it's tough. Also, the price is going up every year. I mean, just climbing on those bucket list type hunts

that Adam mentioned there, just every year, you know, seems, you know, a thousand plus dollars in increase in everything. Yeah, that's generally the... I mean, it's just kind of like anything. It's pickup trucks. Carter, wouldn't you say that? I mean, pickup trucks. Pickup trucks. I mean, they're not staying the same either. It doesn't matter what it is, you know? Yeah, no, there's no question about that, and I think we've talked about that. Trucks are on your mind, though, by the way, I guess. I do think we've talked about this pretty aggressively, Adam, and of course with the boys. We end up, these hunts nowadays, I mean, even if you say, I've got 45,000, it's not available to book. And I think that's, you know, especially for 2020, and I just think it's critical to understand, good hunts are a premium, A.

B, they're non-existent for the following year. It's something you've got to plan. So, even if you want to buy your way in, so to speak, or buy a hunt, you've got to pre-plan. It's not something you can just decide. Now, you want to go lion hunt, we can help you next month. You want to go on an antelope hunt, no problem. But some of these hunts that are relatively high demand, compared to the resource out there, are fairly tough to find. A good mule deer hunt for 180 to 190 bucks, 180, 185 bucks, I mean, they are extremely tough to find. And look, even if you have the money ready to spend it. And so, anyway, keep, you know, if you have those things that you want to do, it's never too early.

I was talking to a guy yesterday, and he says, you know, I think I will. I gave him a couple names to outfitters, and he says, I think I'll call him, you know, next month. And I said, honestly, I'd be calling him right now. You've got the points to draw. He knows you're going to draw. Get on his list. Book the hunt, because if not, next week he might be full. We might send him more clients. And I think it's just important to realize that, you know, if you're looking for something, if it's out there, don't be bashful, book it. I mean, the economy's doing great. We don't see, you know, slowing down in the near future, although, you know, specific industries may experience a slowdown here this winter and whatnot. Overall, things are doing well. We're not seeing the price of hunts go down, nor the demand go down.

And so, I just think it's important to get on it. It's something that does require a little planning. It's going to require Devin and us to really dig a little bit to find the right hunt, you know, if it's one of these kind of hot ticket items. And I would say that being, you know, mule deer, upper end elk, doll sheep, and stone sheep. I mean, we can almost, and wouldn't you agree, Bronson, we can almost find more desert sheep openings with guaranteed tags than you can a great doll or a great stone. Yeah, you can, and obviously, they're more money than a doll, but let's face it, some of these doll sheep hunts are, I mean, $25,000 to $28,000 in certain places. So, it's not like that's, you know, it's not like the... It's not chump change. No, no. You don't have the wide range of, you know, 15,000 and desert sheep are 50, 55. It's narrowed a lot. Right.

And don't mean to really talk about all these. If some of you are listening and say, you know, these guys are just talking about these hunts that are, you know, out there. Nobody can afford it. What we're just trying to say is that if one of these is on your list at some point, which it is for a lot of people if you want a Alaska Yukon moose or a brown bear, you need to have a plan in place to do it. If you read the January magazine, which is actually at the printer, and Jason and I had, I guess, they gave us the mic. For some reason, John gives us the mic, so to speak, in January He says, you know, we want your application strategy. Well, we try to change that a little bit every year because if you just say, you know, mule deer, and then here's my thoughts on mule deer and elk, they don't change a lot every year. You know, they really don't for me. No, we want big ones. How about that?

Yeah, big, big, and I want bigger the next year, you know. Yeah, that's right. But, so we try to incorporate a little bit of our philosophy or thinking, and by all means, that doesn't mean everybody should think and act and do and value what we do. But as you maybe read the January Magazine, those of you that are members of our service, or those of you that aren't, we gave a lot of our philosophy on, you know, don't be afraid to go hunting. And that carries true for using your points. Don't let your bonus points hold you hostage, so to speak. Don't try to wait for absolutely everything to be absolutely perfect before you try to draw a tag, and then, you know, only scout it up until the day you have to turn the tag in, and then get cold feet and turn it back in, and then be left with the same dilemma the next year.

More and more, as tag, point creep and things like that are very active across most of every state and every species, you're gonna have to hunt more, would you say, middle of the road or average hunts. That's what you're gonna be able to draw on a more regular basis, and you're gonna have to draw and hunt those multiple times, maybe eat tags. Don't be afraid to eat them and to make the most out of them. Well, and then transition back to what we were I was talking about a minute ago with these tags of a guaranteed nature. If you have things on your list at some point, everybody's financial situation, everybody's status in life and family situation is different. And those things obviously, they trump everything. They trump a wish list of a hobby that we do, and that's hunting. You know, you don't want to over-exert or over-stretch a family or whatever that you have to.

But to the extent possible, make a plan, work towards it. I mean, you know, there's people, we all know guys that might buy a brand new truck every year, every other year at 50, 55, 60,000. And they'll do it every other year. And there's other people that'll drive a truck maybe for eight or ten years, but they maybe spend that extra 20 or 30,000 that they'd spend on a new truck. And they go on hunting. So, what I'm just trying to impress upon you is that if you have a way, and I'm not saying new trucks are bad. I'm just saying if you want to hunt a doll sheep. No, we love them. Yeah, we love them. If you want to go on a doll sheep hunt, and you can kick, you know, three, five grand a year away for three or four years, and you know, if you see that coming to where you got a down payment down, you might want to think about booking something for 2021, 2022.

I think you got two or three openings for this year from two different outfitters, and that's it. Not counting a cancellation that might come up. Stone Sheep, like one. And that's even surprising that we have one. So, you got to be ready to make a move on something when it's there. And don't think it's just always going to be there, because another thing we talk about, Jason, is nothing ever stays the same. It just doesn't. Stuff changes. Stuff changes. It's nonstop. It's just like, I don't know how to explain it, but I mean, you've got to capitalize on it when it's here. And just like you said, when people are wanting the stars to align, even in your recent article, by the way, that EMAC is going to be up here in about seven days.

But when you talked about everything being aligned, and Ailey's comment coming over, you know, I mean, it's just, you people are wanting, you know, they want it to be perfect for giants on the perfect day, and 5,000 cheaper than advertised or expected. And even at that, I'm going to have to think on it for a month. I think the important part is just you got to jump on them. And it's not, hey, we're not out there to convince you to just go on every hunt that comes available. We only want you to go on hunts that you want to go on, but what we're seeing is a shift, and I don't know if it's a comfortable economy or whatever. People are booking stuff left and right, and then the quality stuff seems to be, you know, I wouldn't say non-existent, but it's not necessarily rare, but tough to find.

And when you find it, act on it. And so, anyway, there's also, Devin, a few hunts. We had a few hunts like Boat Base Brown Bear. But, you know, actually, I've been on the hunt. I did the land base, but with the same outfitter. My buddies did the boat base hunt, and there's actually a couple of those openings coming up here this spring. Yeah, that's right. You tell us a little bit about those, Devin. You got, I think, a couple different outfitters. You know, the Alaska Peninsula is open in the spring this year, and we got some openings for May, right? Multiple. Yep, on the south end of the peninsula. So, yeah, that's a unique thing. It's one of those things that most people might have on a bucket list at one point. But anyway, no matter what it is, if we haven't rattled off about it today, whether it's if you're looking for a coos deer hunt in Mexico,

or if you're hunting, you know, you want to hunt a mountain caribou grizzly, or you want to hunt, you know, or you're actually just wanting to book an outfitter in a state that you know that you have the points to draw. Unlike most booking agents throughout there, there's a lot of booking agents, but I profess that what makes us a lot more unique in the fact is that we book for outfitters with guaranteed tags, but we also book outfitters in dry areas. And we do the research in the units, we know what units are producing, but we also know what outfitters are producing in those units to help you get the most out of your experience once you cash in your points. You brought up... Oh, go ahead, Devin.

I would just add to that, get on that early, too. If you know you're gonna draw Wyoming or Arizona, Colorado, you know, you're in that max pool, point pool, I mean, you can't be early as best, you know, quick as you can. Yeah, that's 100% right, and the nice thing about those states, you can kind of tell when you're gonna get drawn, even if you're not the max. I had a guy yesterday, I've got four antelope points, you know, this is the year I want to go with one of my sons. The following year, all three of us, two sons and him, are going to go elk hunting in Wyoming, you know, and I want to get things set up. No problem. We can tell when you're going to get drawn. That's the one thing nice about us, you know, not necessarily a traditional booking agency where we can analyze odds, help you get drawn, help you book a hunt, or we can just help you book a hunt with a guaranteed tag.

One thing, I did answer a few questions this last week on email and also over the phone was Mexico, and am I nervous about Mexico? And I want to just quickly address that because everybody's going to Mexico, and we have Mexico openings. In fact, we have some of the best coups that are available down there. Personal friends that we've guided and helped on over the years that are going down there and basically leasing all the openings in unspecific areas. So, anyway, to preface that, you know, if we knew of everything that was going on in even Portland, Oregon, or LA, or Salt Lake, Utah, you know, if we knew all the killings that happened the last two weeks in Salt Lake or Chicago, you'd probably be mortified and wouldn't want to go there. And that's kind of what's going on in Mexico. A little bit of the difference is that, you know, when you're in a foreign country, you do feel vulnerable.

It's a feeling. It's not tangible. It's just a feeling of being totally vulnerable. And so, it takes it, I guess, to a little bit of a next level. But I want to say, I don't even know of a hunter that has been harmed or maimed or wounded or killed, you know, that has gone down there. Do you, Adam? No. No, it's not. And there's, you know, obviously, the media is going to sensationalize most everything. And that's not to take away from the terrible things that have happened to the families. Exactly. But, I mean, if you just make a news story out of every place in the United States, you know, and try to extrapolate that out. You couldn't even read through a lot. You wouldn't want a white-tail hunt down in Georgia, because I'm sure Atlanta, it's a freaking rough place. You don't want to go down there. So, don't fly into Atlanta, because it's freaking got problems.

The guys we're working with are first-rate, first-class, no issues. Adam and I have been down to Mexico many, many times. I've slowed down recently. We're really busy in January, so I've slowed down a little bit. It's not because of the danger whatsoever. It's just, you know, I've kind of done it for 15-plus years, and we're busy in January. And also, I'm getting off of four or five months hunting hard, and my kids are coming of age. I'm watching them leave high school even, and I've just tried to refocus just a little bit. And this is one of the areas I've refocused. But honestly, if you're looking to do a hunt, there's nothing better to do in December and January and even coming into the first week in February than to go to Mexico, in my opinion. I mean, we do have some amazing lion hunts as well, but if you do want to do something a little bit different,

You can hunt deer in the rut with a rifle. I'd definitely recommend it. And of course, we can help you, and Devin's got those openings. That's right. You've both been down there, but... I was there last year. ...Mexico. It's a nice place to be in most states. Your weather's always going to be better when you go south of the border in December, January. So, just laid back is probably a good word for it. I mean, Chris, you speak Spanish, so it's nice to... I haven't been with Chris, but Jason has. It's nice to roll down there. Chris doesn't even have to have his ears on to really know what's going on behind the scenes. It's nice for Chris to, you know, he can speak the language and knows what's going on, right Jason? Chris can speak anybody's language. He'll speak it. If it's Fran, he'll speak it. Oh, you're full of it. You know what I'm saying? Chris, you there? I don't know about that.

I have always had fun going to Mexico. We've had some real good hunts down there over the years, and it's definitely a place that I always looked forward to going. Just a little bit of change of pace in the middle of the winter. Hunts are over with for the most part, and it's just fun to get down there and do something different. And great food. That's true. You can't beat the food. You probably gain five or ten pounds when you're down there. Yeah, that's true. A lot of corn chips and tortillas. Yeah, their tortillas are unbelievable. We do have kuzder, mule deer, and desert sheep available. So, anyway, I didn't want to make this podcast about that, but I think it's just a prime example of how we work anywhere across the western U.S., Canada, Alaska, and Mexico, and in all western big game species.

We're not here just talking about applications, although we do a lot of that. We also work with a lot of outfitters with guaranteed tags, and we're not new to the business. I want people to understand, obviously, podcasts help people get a feel for you and teach them about you, and maybe even develop a one-sided relationship. I got people calling us up saying they know more about us than they do their own extended family. And so, anyway, that does happen, and that's the nice thing with this day and age of technology. But I do want to reiterate the fact that we've been doing this for freaking 20 years plus, 30 years. And this is all we've known and all we've done back in... We were talking about facsimiles, and who would know what a facsimile is nowadays? How old would you have to be to know what that is?

And, you know, we used to email hot file lists, what we call the hot file, for reduced price hunts through fax. And we used to type in 200 phone numbers, typing in, letting people know that there was a reduced price hunt, first come, first served. Anyway, that goes back a long ways. Well, email. What was that device called? I think there's only one guy here that knows what that. These guys are looking at me like, what's he talking about? What's a fax assembly? But, I'm with you, Carter. Rotary dial phone. The battery dialed phone, that's right. We didn't have switchboards. I don't remember those. We don't go that far back, but anyway. But anyway, I want to give maybe, I'm going to ask Devin a few more questions about what it is, if you're looking for something, kind of the process about calling in and giving Devin maybe some criteria for you to get him working on.

First off, I want to give a shout out to the folks at MOA Rifles. We went up there this summer and took their outdoor shooting school. It's obviously, there's a little bit of indoor stuff where you learn about a lot of the, you know, the ballistic components about, you know, long range shooting. But really then, where you really had a lot of fun, obviously, is getting out in the field after zeroing your rifle and putting it to the test in shooting conditions. And when they were shooting conditions, that sucked. I think it was June, and I don't know, it felt like about late October up there. It was cold and blowing like crazy, a lot of steep angles, uphill, downhill, you know, rocks jabbing in your ribs as you're trying to get under the gun. But they put on a great shooting school in the summer, but they also make great rifles.

I picked up one of their MOA rifles, the Ascent rifle, that, you know, thousand-yard mountain rifle, and, you know, great little shooter. I picked it up in the 6.5 PRC. Love that little gun. I call it my little kid gun because it feels like a little kid gun, but it shoots a long ways if you need it to, and it kills stuff, but it's not one of these big anchors on your shoulder. So, you know, I like it when I'm packing, when I'm hunting sheep, or a client's, you know, I'm going to be helping them on a sheep hunt. It's a great gun for that. So, shout out to them. MOARifles.com, phone number 541-526-1820. But back to what I was saying a minute ago, Devin. So, what would you say, what type of criteria, if somebody wants to call, whether they're looking for a hunt, an Epic Outdoors member, or they're looking for a hunt, and they're thinking they want to book an

outfitter somewhere in a state they've got the points to draw, or they're looking for an outfitted hunt, Give me, what are some of the main criteria that you're going to want to get for him? We have some forums here at the office, but what are, you know, give them that process of the type of information you're going to want to glean from. I think, I mean, obviously, you know, what your weapon is, rifle, archery, where you want to stay. But I think even beyond that, you know, everybody has different values of what makes their hunt great or terrible. You know, some guys want to go with their buddies, have a great time. They, you know, some guys want to go by themselves with just a guide, one-on-one, hiking all day. So, So, you know, if you call any of us here, you've got to tell us what you value in a hunt, you know, alongside with those other details.

Yeah, and there's differences in the style of hunt. There's a lot of elk hunts. Yeah. There's wilderness horseback hunts that, you know, Jason, you know... I didn't even say anything, Jason. I said your name, Carter. I didn't even say anything. I just said, Jason... I could have said, and Jason is not that fond of, but I didn't say that. Just go there, Bronson, because you spend a lot of time on a horse on a stone sheep hunt, and I know you love them, and have endured a few horses. It was two weeks before I felt like I could walk straight up and down after I got done with that hunt, but I, you know, that's just me. I don't, my body has never been conformed around horses, let alone 1,800 or 2,000 pound horses that they got up there. I can't fix your hair. They'll see. Anyway, but what were you gonna say about yours? Oh, New Mexico, that's it.

Well, I mean, sometimes horses are a love-hate deal, and a lot of times you need them, and a lot of people love them that have grown up on them. I didn't grow up on horses, but I know enough, just enough to get bucked up and maybe even killed. But anyway, they're a necessary evil in some of these, and that's what I think Devin's alluding to, is basically, you know, some people don't want to get on horses, and some people do. But we've got hunts that you've got to have them. And you know, once, a few times, you know, if you're not a horse guy, a few times, you know, nobody. Well, and I had my cousin, you know, his son, for whatever reason, I think he was just caught watching a couple hunting shows on satellite TV or something, and he wasn't really brought up in a hunting family, but, you know, his kids started begging him to watch more and buy hunting books.

And he talked to the point he couldn't ignore it anymore. So, he wanted to start coming with me on the Henry Mountains just as a means to get his kids out to see deer. And I'm like, this is going to spoil them for any hunts you're going to ever take them on in the real world. On the man tie or wherever you're going to take them. But come on down. They're going to have a good time. But pretty soon, you know, he booked him on a first elk hunt on a CWMU, a private land hunt here in Utah. He killed a nice, you know, 300-inch, six-point bull. And then he surprised me. One year, he's like, I want to do something way different. I want to go so deep back in. I want to go on horses. And I'm thinking, I know I don't... I'm not a horse guy. And he doesn't strike me as that, but he wanted to book him and his brother. And so, they had a couple points built up.

We booked them on a general season Wyoming backcountry hunt, and you know, you might have read about their story last year in the magazine. It was epic. They had a death march getting out of there. But anyway, so our point is, there's a wide range of hunts. An elk maybe is maybe one of the examples of the widest range of those, because you can hunt them from the porch off of a cabin in some places to backcountry. But there's a lot of different If you don't want to sleep in a wall tent, you don't want to sleep in a wall tent where a grizzly can sniff your head right through a sixteenth of an eighth inch canvas tent. If you don't want that, tell Devin about that. We need to know that. You don't want to know that. Jason, you've been there, done that, and Unit 10 sheep hunting with your dad years ago, I think you had one. Oh, yeah. Sheep Unit 10 up there.

You were exhaling, and he was breathing in your exhale, pretty much, wasn't it like that? Well, yeah, we were in the tent, side by side, and I mean, this thing's, you know, grouting outside the tent. We got the rifle right between us, we're both in the same tent. And I'm thinking, you know, it's like, you know, you're in the tent, and you can hear things, and at times you're like, that's just me hearing something. Maybe I was half asleep or whatever. Finally, I've had enough of it. I was like, that's a freaking grizzly. And I just said, you hear that? And my dad's like, yes. He's wide awake, huh? Yeah, and I said, is there one in the pipe? And he goes, yes. I mean, I had a guy yesterday call in and just say, hey, you know, I'm fine to go in grizzly country. I'm fine to use horses.

And so, me and my two boys, it's going to be a horrible lifetime. You know, hook me up with the points we have. So, it's all good, you know? I mean, again, you know, we don't know a ton of people that have been mauled or killed by bears, one or two here and there, but, you know, you don't want to be one of those guys. But at the same time, kind of like getting bit by a rattlesnake. It doesn't happen too often. Law of averages, go hunting. You live once. You know what I mean? That's right. Well, and that maybe brings on to the next subject, you know, physical limitations, your age, health restrictions, Devin. I mean, that's going to help steer where your thoughts are. Somebody, even when it comes to like doll sheep or mountain goats, I mean, there's a wide range of mountain goat hunts out there, you know, from, you know, Kodiak Island is probably not one of the more brutally physical.

Tons of goats. It's still goat country, but versus, you know, some places in British Columbia or the Chugach or things like that. So, physical limitations, anything else that's nowhere to...and the other thing is, you know, price range, obviously, trophy expectations, right? I mean, what would you say to people that are...I mean, everybody that calls, they want 350 plus bulls and 190 mule deer. I mean, but you sometimes have to then ask a few more questions, don't you, about, okay, you're 73 years old. And you want to kill one big bull in your life, but you don't want to use your points on, you know, anything but Unit 9 or 23 North or South in Arizona. And, you know, those types of things. And we're trying to impress upon people. Maybe be a little bit more realistic with your points or your plans, even when it comes to booking hunts.

Some people are just too conservative, I guess. They're not taking an opportunity to hunt where they maybe otherwise should. I don't know. Well, I think you've got to keep in mind, you've got to be realistic about what you really want. 350 is such a common term, and that's a giant bull. And I think when it really comes down to it, a 320 walks in front of them, they're crapping and realizing, you know. So, we could have helped them so many years prior if they had been a little bit more realistic. With their points, they could have drawn units that really would have fit the bill and what they're looking for. So, anyway, I think all those are good things. One thing I wanted to ask, Devin's got a quite a- You talked about MOA a little bit, but Devin does have quite a history of long range rifle and working in the firearm industry.

Yeah, I was at Fierce Firearms for three years, so maybe some of you out there I've talked to about rifles in the past. What did you give us a little background on what kind of your job responsibilities were there? Oh, I was a sales executive, so you talk about these shows coming up. I mean, last year I went to Mexico, flew to Dallas, flew here. I mean, I was packing like a month in advance for these shows. So yeah, a lot of shows selling guns, long range rifles, Like, Cabela's Sportsman's Warehouse managed some of those stores, and just pretty much all in the United States and Canada. Yeah, just part of that depth of experience that we were talking about earlier. I mean, you know, when we were talking about Devin's upbringing, he went from 15 to 30-something pretty fast. I think it was mainly so we wouldn't get into

any juicy things in the middle. I don't know, but that might be after. We got to get him, we got to get some of them stories. Wyatt, we're gonna have to, we have to pay you a little You got some stuff on him, I'm sure. Like what really happened in the tree fort, you know what I'm saying? The tree fort was before our time. He was shooting pigeons. I was putting up a stand so I could snipe my buddies at a paintball tournament or something. Shooting pigeons out of his neighbor's backyard or something, out of his pellet gun. Anyway, but yeah, you know, so to kind of make full circle, you know, Devin, great addition for us here. You know,

You know, we've all known of him for a while. Obviously, Chris and Wyatt have known him a lot better than Jason and I, you know, when he was going to school here and got to know these guys, I guess in the bachelor hangouts in town, which Jason and I don't even know where those are. So, I mean, they, in those circles, these guys all met and became friends and whatnot. But we're glad to have him on board here, and we hope that you, in due time, you know, trust him with your call, with the advice on maybe where to use your, how to, who to book after you're going to be a little bit. If you draw a tag with your points, or if you're looking for something to set up in advance that doesn't require you drawing a tag, any of us can help you here, but that's going to be Devin's primary responsibility, like we said, to keep on track of openings.

And when people call in looking for something, you know, he may say, alright, I'll get back to you in a day or so, or maybe he's got something right there on his desk right then, but if he doesn't, he's going to go to work, try to find something that fits what you're looking for. So, use him. It's what he's here for. Yeah, don't be afraid to call. We've got a lot of guys here that have a lot of experience. Chances are that no matter what question you've got, somebody here is going to be able to answer it. So, don't be afraid to call. It's part of your membership to Epic Outdoors. So, we look forward to hearing from you. And I can't wait for the next few podcasts where we don't have to be so formal and we can actually just jaw a little bit. Like, I've heard just a couple of things about people having bullet holes in their trucks doing crazy work.

Oh yeah, that came out this morning. I thought I was the only one that had a bullet hole go down through a glove box and blow up the fan there on the heater, but now it sounds like somebody else has got some stories too. Well, that'll be for another one, but it's good. These guys, they don't know all that. When they just get talking about whatever they're doing as bachelors or before they came to work here, it can and will be used against them on a podcast. Nothing's safe at this office. Nothing is safe. Nothing. Anyway, anything else we didn't cover, Jason, Wyatt, Dev, and Chris, that we need to, you know, we mainly wanted to introduce our listeners, Dev and Archibald, which I think we've done. You'll learn more about him in the magazine, which you get nine times a year, Epic Outdoors magazine.

It's monthly from December through June. You're going to get one every month in the state issues that are coming out. Like we said, our January one's at the printer as we speak. This covers Wyoming moose, sheep, goat, bison, and elk, as well as Arizona elk and antelope. The next one will cover New Mexico, Oregon, Utah. They'll cover them in the order that they're open. And I hope you use us all as resources to help plan your western hunting stuff. And if you have questions on things, don't hesitate to give us a call. Yeah, that's right. You know, and then, yeah, we've got a few more things to talk about at some point. We got that pack wheel in the office. I was wondering, you know, maybe checking it out, hauling some moose quarters up there in Montana, browsing on your hunt, mate.

Well, you gotta draw a tag first, Carter. You're the only one that's drawn two moose tags in this office, so I'm still waiting for my first. Well, alright. Then we can do some of them max points. Anybody out there who's got a big bowl, a bronzer needs to kill, we pack it out with this pack wheel we got here in the office. I'm not afraid to use that contraption. It looks kind of nifty. I don't know. Dude, it hauls like 200-250 pounds. Chris, you've done a little research on it, haven't you? Yeah, I actually had a booth down there at the Expo, and I was looking at them a little bit, and decided to start looking into it. They're a pretty handy little tool to just, you know, it makes it easier to pack things out. They'll go a lot of places that you wouldn't expect, Because it's one wheel, you can go over rocks, boulders, trees, and just a great tool.

Well, I've had a guy tell me that he couldn't wear the battery out, went into Region G in some of that country. Of course, there's motorbike trails in some of that country, and especially in Idaho. And he went in, hunted, and came out. So, it's easier to go downhill and uphill with it than without it, just because the braking system is so good, and it's got a ton of power. I'm like chomping at the bit to check this thing out, and then I've actually started seeing other people pop up on social media with them and whatnot. I'll call it right now. I'll bet we see somebody at the expo riding one like a unicycle up and down the aisles. I'm calling it right now. I'll bet somebody's gonna try to do that. And so, if you're gonna be that guy, I'm just calling it. I'll bet that'd be the place that somebody says, I know how to use one of these things. Watch this.

They're just cruising up and down, standing up on one of those things going down the aisles. One of these electric bikes, yeah, I can see it. I can see it. I'll be packed out on one if I have to stand there all day, for day after day. But we will be at the Wild Sheep Convention out there in Reno. We'll also be at the Hunt. Looking forward to talking to everybody there, and of course our crew will be there. One thing, we did finish this magazine, the January magazine's at the printer. We're going to come out with EMAC soon, right after Christmas, and it will cover Arizona elk and antelope, as well as Wyoming sheep, goat, moose, bison, and elk. Alright, it's already here, kicking off 2020. So, well, if there's nothing else, I guess, travel safe, Carter. Don't throw a U-joint, break a, you know, will-bearing, something like that down there.

You'll set me up for failure. This will be awesome. We're gonna smash a giant, the hunt of the year. I'm gonna be back for Christmas Eve, and I'm gonna be father of the year, I'm gonna be husband of the year, all kinds of awards. Smash a giant ram, hopefully. Alright. Alright, well, I hope that's the case. So, travel safe, have fun, and I guess, until next time, everybody else, have a great holidays as well.