EP 147: Big Bucks! Mule Deer Management, Jicarilla Game and Fish

we're going to talk about big bucks early 2020 survey was the best survey I've flown for big bucks period gross 200 inch average for for non-tribal hunts anything to do with western big game welcome to the epic outdoors podcast powered by under armor hey everybody jason carter and adam bronson here at the epic outdoors podcast coming at you from southern utah cedar city that's where a lot of fun things happen here in cedar city good sushi here too right bronson yeah as good as you can for inland states we've learned that you go on thursdays because the fish comes in on wednesdays it's awesome uh anyway we appreciate under armor they sponsor this podcast we're super excited uh to get these guys on the line we got a special podcast coming northern new mexico hickory indian reservation so we're going to talk about big bucks

we're also going to talk about you know some of the opportunities they have for non-tribal member hunting bears elk and uh just in general get a get a pulse on what their weather's been like which can translate to some of the other nearby uh deer units that we're also fond of 2b2c5 some of those others like that so let's give him a call yeah let's get him on the line here see what kyle has to say please know as our options have changed that didn't sound like kyle hello you have reached the hickorya game and fish department our office hours are 8 a.m to 5 p.m mountains banded monday through friday press 2 for kyle tater yli please hold while your call is being transferred to kyle peter this is kyle kyle jason carter and adam bronson how are you hey guys how's it going good good we don't have the coronavirus but we are sick how are you doing oh i'm doing well man we

we survived the show season did you coronavirus i don't know if that's where we caught it or what but we're uh we're on the recovery at least we're all infecting each other here we're kind of quarantined in this office but you guys stay in utah yeah yeah well we'll get through it how's your weather been what's your uh you've been getting crushed with this last round of storms in the last uh week or so yeah i mean we've been in general we've been pretty mild um the last uh week or so we had a lot of rain and a little bit of snow but um in general fairly mild winter so far now that's nice uh maybe give us a quick uh rundown of how the season went it seemed like you guys did kill some great animals uh coming off the reservation how or maybe how things went and then maybe a just you know a quick uh outline of how you think this year's shaping up sure so um 2019 we were back

to normal is what i'd say because 2018 was one of the worst drought years we've ever seen um so as far as uh tribal member hunts you know we had a the typical two-week hunt in october which uh high success hunt for tribal members uh biggest buck was a 200 inch buck um i think we just officially entered him in boone and crockett at 195 net um and then uh when i mean back to normal the the client hunts our average is back to 200 gross or better so it was right at 200 this year that's a variety of bucks killed some you know anything from uh big typicals to you know big heavy stuff with trash so uh kind of what the hickory is known for and good to be back on that track yeah that's awesome is it uh just for the people that don't know the difference between tribal tribal's just a little bit earlier and not in the rut whereas your later season hunts are the ones that you you know sell to

clients sure yeah so the the priority of of our program is to provide good hunting for tribal members um the secondary objective there would be you know as a result of our management for tribal members there's some phenomenal opportunity for non-tribal members so um the majority of licenses are issued for tribal hunts that are the last two weeks of october typically um and then uh for non-member or client hunts um those range from mid-november through the draw hunt which is the first 10 days of december so uh like i said just a phenomenal opportunity what we want is for folks to come here that are lucky enough to draw or obtain a tag uh to leave here thinking like this is a world-class resource and we're treated fairly and killed a buck of 10 lifetimes yeah before we maybe get into all the rest of the hunting you do deer obviously being one that we all probably most known for tell us a

little bit about what you do kyle your background and what you do um for the tribe there what your role is okay uh so uh first of all i've i'm a lifelong hunter uh conservationist i grew up in dulcie so having grown up in this community uh it's really hard not to be a hunter for one and to to have a love for wildlife and uh definitely always remember the big bucks as a kid here and uh sort of shaped my future so um when i left high school here i went down and got a degree in range science and then ended up getting a master's in wildlife management so um where'd you go to school really uh went to school at nmsu and um i always dreamed about coming home but never thought it would ever happen but the stars aligned and yeah here i am gotcha yeah not not like you have a big staff of biologists there

there's a there's a few you know what i mean it's like very limited jobs for biologists and so you got to get the one or two you know what i mean so the the mule deer nut that uh that likes big mule deer and wants to uh manage for them you know those jobs are are a few that's right um anyway so that's what i do i'm the the biologist here obviously and i've been doing it for 12 years now so geez what a great job yeah we know we we met uh i think it's your is your brother that's in in tater yeah my yeah my brother ian yeah he's the the older uglier tater you know he's actually a good dude we we were up there uh having dinner at the hunt expo and shared a table with him and it was such a small world i guess he's working for wyoming gaming fish now yeah he's also biologist he runs the habitat program for wyoming gaming fish so it like i said i've been growing up here i think it shaped

both of us and and sent us down that path yeah anyway super good guy it was fun to visit with him and anyway small world of course uh anyway so he didn't he he worked for uh a reservation down there in new mexico prior to that job with wyoming right yeah he actually worked for acoma uh pueblo of acoma and and ran the the biology there for probably 10 years and um you know acoma's got some some great elk and uh you know i i uh that's actually where i got my master's degree uh working on the elk down there so gotcha it is a small world and um you know feel blessed for all the opportunities that have come my way and and uh you know hopefully there's some more coming down the road and keep things on the on the right path well he uh anyway yeah it was awesome to visit with him of course we've been

his ear a little bit wyoming and would love to see amazing deer come back and whatnot and of course he's over habitat seemed like statewide so anyway we've been his ear a little bit and had a good time that night so great guy but anyway so yeah i guess uh that kind of sets the teases up here as far as mule deer you guys do uh of course you do some surveys after everything's all the dust clears and and the hunters go home and and obviously back to normal like you said with uh gross 200 inch average for for non-tribal hunts and whatnot just an amazing statistic i mean that's kind of the holy grail for any and all mule deer hunters don't know many guys that would be you know passing something like that up so that's one of the best mule deer hunting opportunities in the entire western u.s that we know of um but what now how does that set this set the stage for 2020

i mean obviously you know they don't kill them all and just wondering you know how things are looking we got into the weather a little bit but then also maybe your post-season surveys um yeah so what makes this unique is we actually set seasons and quotas and everything every year which is uh puts a huge management and monitoring burden on on the department to collect the right data every year um so everything from antler scores to teeth to habitat monitoring to uh of course aerial surveys every january is is basically the the recipe that we follow um using these data we we come up with an annual proclamation which we just released it's on our website um and then we uh we sort of forecast the the coming year so um just real quick we were talking about you know the standard of big bucks i took some notes uh since 2012 which is when i started so eight years ago we've had 68 bucks with 200

inch gross or better tribal member and on um of those 68 i only go back to 2012 because it's hard to you know go past anything that i wasn't collecting but 21 minimum eligible for all-time boon and crockett so wow um i think that's a testament to our program and testament to um how well we're able to keep this thing going long term we've been doing this for close to 40 years now um some things that that uh sort of guide my day is um the the uncertainty is inevitable especially in you know complex wild systems it's something that that i think most biologists would agree with and you know we got to be able to to uh adapt and react uh to challenges as they especially on a modern multiple use landscape so um that absolutely requires constant collection of data which is you know comes full circle to why we do it

um the other thing that especially with mule deer is a lot of the literature these days is saying mule deer lack the ability to adapt quickly to change so again if without the right information the right data collected um you know we could be missing the the boat big time in a matter of years you know one or two years so um been very blessed another thing that makes us super unique is we've always had a a lot of support from the community from the tribal membership tribal council president uh for the last 40 years this is something that they are behind um absolutely 100 percent mule deer are key um they are a cultural species they're important to the community so um anyway as far as what 2020 is looking like um so we're managed for abundance we manage for age class uh all those things are in place

2020 should be uh a banner year based on what i've seen from the helicopter and what the data is telling me otherwise um of course the one factor and the one that can trump everything is uh precipitation you know if we're not getting uh ample spring and summer precip that that seems to hinder us pretty bad so what age what do you what do you guys figure the key age what's what are you managing for so the overall for the client hunts it's a minimum of four last year was five and a half average um but we've had uh bucks killed in the 13 year old range come on before which is you know beyond grandpa stage for a mule deer buck um but yeah typically we're managing for a for a four to seven year old type buck including the tribal harvest so you alluded to it a minute ago about the uniqueness of some of the things within the reservation and way you manage um can you think

of things you know outside i mean you're obviously a wildlife biologist but you're in a little bit of a unique setting being on a on a reservation and maybe can have uh maybe different tools at your disposal that maybe aren't as easily accessed as on public land landscape management or you know whatever can you maybe talk about a few things that you feel maybe set some of your management um a mule deer whether it be specific you know management practices or habitat related stuff or predator what do you think maybe maybe is unique i'd say all of it and and the the refreshing part about working for uh hickorya i can't speak for all tribes but for hickorya is uh habitat and populations would be under the same roof meaning we can coordinate that effort uh hand in hand so uh not to say there aren't challenges uh with other multiple on a multiple use landscape you know oil

and gas whatever you know there's a lot of other things on the landscape um but what what i would say that makes us unique is we are self-governed we're self-reliant so uh if we wanted to go do a project that we thought benefited mule deer or elk or habitat or whatever um there's very little delay there's no red tape you know that that makes us super unique um makes my job uh very refreshing and and uh makes me want to come to work you know there's uh um not a whole lot of bureaucracy if if you get what i mean no yeah kind of like our business here we're small and we get to do what we want you guys kind of get to do what you want that's what i'm hearing yeah a good example was when i when i got hired in 2012 uh we needed to update some of the migration data that was done in the 80s and the technology has come so far you know yeah um i presented it and they said go for it you know so

the next january we were collaring deer just like that so um like i said we we got a lot of support we got a lot of uh uh folks understand the importance of of what we're doing and and it's uh it's a great place to to be i want to talk about the age real quick you say you've got five and a half you're managing for four everybody killing a four four year old but you know if we came in at five and a half we would issue more tags here and so how does that play into your management are you you're at five and a half does that mean you get to issue more tags or are you also taking in social pressures and a gut feel of we don't want to issue more tags even though we're above age objective sure yeah so then that's sort of the the slippery slope of having you know written down objectives so um there is the gut feel you know are we where we need to be um i have a whole bunch of written sort of

guidelines that that uh that help me uh understand our our harvested age structure a little bit better um because we also have things like a meat harvest for tribal members that are younger bucks um we don't want to make we want to make sure that that doesn't become additive through time um so when i say you know we're managing for four to seven there's some flexibility there on average though the one that i'm looking at the most is uh the uh the uh the non-member hunts so when i say we're managing for a minimum of four um you're talking about that should be the absolute bottom we should be killing five six seven okay um and there really isn't a whole lot of pressure you know that maybe a state agency would have saying well you got too many bucks on the landscape that just doesn't exist so um yeah you're not abundance is

abundance is key especially if you're trying to kill big bucks you know not every buck is going to be a 200 inch muley and uh in order to do that you need to have several bucks on the landscape so well yeah here in the states i mean normal stateside type management they sit they're seeing a lot of game they're issuing more tags where you're you guys it feels like you're saying we're seeing a lot of bucks but we like seeing a lot of bucks may not may not our tag numbers may not having a buck dive old age is is a great thing so that's awesome wow how do you manage you know the migration how you know does how does that play into the hickory or are you basically do you feel like you guys in the non-tribal later type hunts are hunting resident deer you know how does that come into play with your average age and if it's hard to deal with any migrations from colorado and mixing with your

residents so yeah the more data we collect on migration the better feel we have for what you know how that looks and um the the most recent stuff says uh migration is occurring in october early october no matter what whether there's snow up high or not which is pretty fascinating stuff it's more of a internal time clock in the deer um as far as the hunting is concerned we've been doing these uh the october hunt for tribal members so in essence they they're getting the best of both worlds on that hunt a little bit of resident a little bit of migrant so um you know the timing of an october hunt can be challenging based on a whole variety of of uh you know environmental issues moon whatever you know um and then uh obviously the december hunt is should be most deer are on winter range which we are winter

range we we're where the rocky mountains meets the colorado plateau so uh the landscape is super important for for the region i would say and and we treat it as such do you have internal i guess i don't know how to word this with you know obviously you guys have a very very uh conservative we'll just call it management strategy like you said manage for older deer things like that how do you how do you balance that with some of the migration the deer that leave and all that i guess there's really nothing you can do but but it that's a that's tough and i guess you know we hear about it from other people in the western states so you know you manage a well-managed privately owned ranch and then your deer leave and they get hunted by other people um down the row you know as the deer move and leave and that's a that's a challenge for you as well to raise deer and not be able to keep them

all year long obviously and uh you know you are a thoroughfare for deer coming in out of colorado and filtering through you and then maybe filter back through back into new mexico you know blm or state ground as well i'd be lying if i said that wasn't a concern um but luckily we have 850 000 acres and that helps yeah that's the other cool thing about the landscape is um from tip to tip it's browse rich it's cover rich everything that mule deer want the other cool thing is um the elevational relief from north to south so we have a variety of habitats that uh should an animal need to migrate further hopefully they migrate down on land that is managed and owned by the tribe um but yeah i mean there's not a whole lot you can do over a migrant animal that crosses the fence uh it's a very complex thing

unfortunately and um you know we don't uh we try to focus on the on the positive on what we can do here on the reservation and and stick to that what type of like vegetation manipulation treatments and that have you guys been able to do um to obviously stimulate your browse or to reduce you know pinyon juniper encroachment things like that give us some examples of some of the larger scale projects um the the recent efforts and sort of test plots if you will have been in uh more sagebrush enhancement than anything um so like a dixie harrow treatment with some reseed thrown on top um we've been getting some pretty good results out of that so we want to take that to some other areas that uh that we think it would work so that's a very complex thing in itself you know whether it's feasible or not and

are we going to make it worse with cheatgrass or whatever type concerns so um the other thing that has been going on for a long long time is uh bia forestry does a lot of commercial thinning of pine stands and things like that get some some sunlight on the ground and uh you know start creating some more food and more of the summer ranges of the reservation so um all good things you know and then uh moving forward in the future uh we've been looking at some shredding and and uh mulching hydroaxing of pj stands creating some little uh wildlife treatments uh kind of in more transitional or mid-elevational ranges so um a little bit of everything and and uh as far as the monitoring side of things of habitat we've been collecting uh browse production and utilization data on our southern mesas uh for oh since 2002 so um fascinating stuff to to collect and to analyze and to see how important

and uh these habitats are and how uh sensitive they are to timing and amount of precipitation more than anything else so um we feel like it's a uh the big picture you know everything is related to everything else and that's uh important so we we try to collect as much data as possible on that sort of stuff and then use that data to to guide uh you know habitat treatments things like that well that's awesome so i know you guys have been aggressive in predator control as well over the years in especially in years past that that i'm personally aware of but maybe talk a little bit about that how you guys sure so in um in 1982 i believe uh the tribe hired their first biologist and mainly as a result of uh there were very few deer on the landscape there were some issues uh the mule deer heyday quote

unquote had uh come and gone um so uh the gentleman collared a bunch of deer and found out that uh all of the mortality factor was uh either coyotes or illegal hunting so as a result they uh they responded like like any good game department would um they started doing some pretty intensive predator management uh and along with some pretty robust law enforcement initiatives so those things are still in existence today and sort of the hallmark of what we're doing the foundation of the program so um when it comes to predator management uh i always like to say you know if it's if it's a it's a very site specific thing it's something that once you do you got to commit to um basically we're creating a window for fawn recruitment or calf recruitment um uh so we're ultra aggressive when it comes to coyote management um we also have

several uh uh mountain lion and black bear type hunts but those are all under limited entry type type uh seasons so um i would say as a result um in the 80s where the first classification survey counted 1300 deer total um to today where you know with fewer hours i'm counting closer to four or five thousand deer per flight um you know i think it's a testament to uh to predator management and uh um um where we've come since since the early 80s so uh super important something that uh that we will continue to do in through time so what what type of things you're specifically doing you address the draw or limited entry um tags for lions or bears um but for coyotes specifically what do you what did you implement then what has been changed modified how do you continue to put pressure on that what's that

look like so in the mid 80s they hired a full-time department trapper um and that position is still here today so we've got a guy that that his his full job is to to handle uh wildlife related conflicts but you know that's his big job description but really it's it's coyotes so um the other thing that we do is in the 80s they also instituted a bounty for uh tribal members um to bring in coyotes and uh i would say that has been the most effective tool that we've used wow uh since 1983 probably um to put constant pressure on on coyotes what is it what's the bounty uh 40 bucks a dog okay that's awesome that's still in place today huh for tribal members today yeah yeah interesting so how does a guy go about getting a tag like let's say let's say somebody wants to you know apply obviously have an application system you can cover that real quick before we move on to the other species

so uh for deer deer is high demand we only issue seven deer tags on draw the remaining five so uh 12 total the remaining five are either live auction or or some form of sealed bid to our office um so if you wanted to put in for the general draw uh that application can be downloaded from our website hickoryahunt.com it's the draw application form you simply submit a 50 check with your name one name per form uh get it here before june 1st and that enters you into the draw should you draw the license and the odds are have typically been one in 14 or one in 15 over the last few years um 17 5 would be due and then uh you know you got to hire a tribal member guide you got to uh book your room and meals and all that stuff are on you so that's the basic uh policy for uh applying for the draw and you know the lucky seven that get drawn and they come deer hunting in

december okay there you go 17 500 plus the guide fee plus food and lodging and yes sir from what i understand guide fees are fairly reasonable up there so anyway so if a guy wants to do that you can get on uh what's your website real quick kyle hickoryahunt.com so j-i-c-a-r-i-l-l-a hunt.com okay we also understand you have a good population of elk do you want to go into that it seems like you guys have some good elk hunting opportunities and then tags that maybe don't sell out so fast and gives guys an opportunity to to really to go and enjoy that and possibly harvest a real good bull as well sure so um our our elk program is often overshadowed by the the nature of our mule deer program so um but honestly we have way more opportunity for elk we have uh some really great elk hunting um and i always the way that i try to sell it to folks that are interested in is if you if you love elk

hunting this is a great place to come because of uh the abundance of elk the number of opportunities we have whether it's a cow elk or uh you know a late season bull or an early season bull archery muzzleloader we've got a lot of different opportunities so um what the what mother nature provides in north central new mexico is on average a 305 to 310 type bull uh every once in a while we'll you know we're we're well above that 320 to 330 but the average tells us you know that's what to expect so um we manage just same same same as deer we want old bulls on the landscape we want mature bulls and uh um have a variety of hunts to get you out on the landscape so um those are issued a lot differently than our deer uh actually march 2nd which is this coming monday uh we will start selling those first

come first serve over the phone and uh all of those are you know they typically sell within a week or so but if there's any interest and uh mark second is the day this year okay tell us a little bit about the opportunities and i know that we can direct people to your website like you said you put your proclamation on there um but in summary what what do you have season date wise weapon date wise what are the different opportunities they have and then it's maybe going to some of the costs associated with those and the guides required and things like that okay uh so the the archery hunt uh last five days of september that's the res wide archery it's a six thousand fifty dollar license plus guide meals lodging all that stuff so um what folks tell me uh that have hunted that uh is they don't really tell

their friends about it because it's it's that good so um maybe this podcast will will start to liven that up um anyway they uh they can expect to have several encounters every day with uh with bull elk you know and like i said if you like elk hunting you like bugling like chasing bugles uh kind of a cool place to come and try it um high success that's what makes us super unique on these archery hunts this last year's uh success was 75 percent um which is unheard of as far as i'm concerned as far as an archery average so um so that's archery we also have some southern unit uh flexibility with uh archery and muzzleloader and that's very limited tags there's six licenses down there that's also a six thousand dollar archery tag um you can roll that hunt into a muzzleloader hunt for a thousand bucks would be

seven thousand bucks but the advantage of the south unit is um it's a seven day hunt you can roll your own hunt dates between the first and the 25th so um a little bit more flexibility for a guy that that may have a tight schedule in september is there more elk in the southern fewer elk in the southern what do you give the flexibility there's fewer elk in the southern unit um but you know that's a i think we're splitting hairs when i say that yeah there's there's a lot of elk plenty of elk you just add some flexibility to it that's that's the main reason why you're doing it that way sure sure well we also have the the res wide hunt for tribal members is happening the first through the 25th as well archery bull hunt so um we just needed a we made a subunit to provide another opportunity

essentially so uh still a great hunt the standard of you know high success lots of bulls is still there so um and then moving forward the next hunt would be the early rifle october 1st through 5th or 6th through 10th there's two hunts there um that is by far the most popular hunt typically those elk are still bugling so it's essentially a rifle bugle hunt um that is an eight thousand fifty dollar license uh again first come first serve march 2nd uh top notch phenomenal hunt those it's it's a um very unique hunt in my mind um and then we have more uh later season hunts so november 1st through 5th sort of a transitional hunt uh still honestly the last couple years it seems like the biggest bulls have been killed on that hunt score wise um and then the late season hunt which is what i would

call more of an adventure hunt because we can have two feet of snow or two feet of mud you know depending on what things are looking like out there and a lot of glass and a lot of spot and stock you know looking through big old bulls that uh you need to find one that isn't broken up you know it's kind of a cool experience in itself um so those two late season hunts are seven thousand dollar license all right and everything is all required a guide required right everything we do requires a tribal member guide yeah and then when do those sell out or or you know how long does a guy have i know they go on sale here uh shortly but you know so yeah i would give us a sense of urgency within a day the the early rifle hunts are going to be okay taken so if someone has interest march 2nd they need to get on the horn

okay uh for the early rifle uh archery you know it's similar there's lots of demand but um really depends on on the year who's coming back etc you know that sort of thing yeah first right of refusal do you give the first do you give first right of refusal to guys that were that come no no but everybody's still guys you know the procedure they uh they just jump on they're on the horn yeah they're calling us at at 7 59 so 8 a.m on the second they're there okay all right and then uh and then you got cow elk opportunities and things like that um as well later in the year yeah so as far as demand i would say cow elk are probably second to mule deer we we get a lot of interest for our antlerless licenses so um mainly from back east it seems but you know we we welcome whoever wants to come and we issue a lot of opportunity for that and that's how we we uh re-regulate our elk herd um elk seem to

be doing very well these days as far as uh uh growing expanding you know recruiting calves things like that um so the way we we keep that in check is through these cow hunts and uh so that's also a draw that's on the same form that you would apply for mule deer the draw application form so the cow elk's on the draw all these bull tags you just talked about are all first come first just call or buy first serve yeah yeah what's the drawing odds if a guy wants a cow tag yeah they're really good um so what we the way we do it is you get to uh you have four choices we have a variety of seasons and you know south unit north unit res widely early a lot of different opportunities so um a guy would have to figure out what his priorities are four choices and uh we draw apps so uh when we pull an application we'll look at

those choices and try to fit them within the quota um as a result if you're uh if if you're dead set on on on a res cow to hunt or something like that a reservation wide cow uh and that's your only choice then your odds go down significantly but if you diversify those choices and are flexible in your dates i'm more often than not i would say probably 90 percent draw if you do that and what's your price on your cow cow tax it's a 50 application fee per person just like uh the deer uh if you you draw it's 750 bucks and is it due june same as deer or earlier yeah it's due june 1st yeah and then you hire a guide for the two day or two hunt whatever you're gonna have right so yep what is your and i know you're you're independent uh of of your guides because you can see a list of guides on your website i know i've been on there before but for our listeners that are maybe not sure if they're

interested in buying one of these bull tags we talked about a bit ago what is a what is a range for let's say a five-day hunt what what are you've got to have an idea of what most people are charging what what are people looking at on top of their uh permit fees that they're that we went through a minute ago gotcha so um so i'll tell you what the fair market price for a guide is and what guides are getting paid on some ranches around your other outfitters things like that and i think that's probably the best way to to keep that so um 250 to 300 a day times the number of days that you're you're out there um not including any gratuity stuff like that yeah if a guy was interested in a uh you know one of our five-day rifle hunts or or whatever or uh archery hunt you know that would that would uh start to form a budget for them and um the casino hotel here is called wild horse

casino and hotel they'll sell you a room for 100 bucks a night um there's a few restaurants in town i mean dulcey's not exactly a metropolis but we try to take care of uh uh the hunters that come here and you know go from there gotcha so not not too not too expensive you know paying daily rates for the most part um for a five-day hunt most all those bull hunts the archery and the uh muzzle slash rifle are all five days on your seasons on those or is it or is there some number longer than that no traditionally they're five-day hunts yeah okay so not not too expensive i guess is what what we're trying to drive home here i mean uh you know it's not like you're attacking a five or six not not like you're attacking a five or six thousand dollar guide fee on top of a you know seven or eight thousand dollar hunt it's not

like that sure yeah super affordable and and for what you're getting i think it's it's definitely worth the the money talk about maybe a few of the other species i guess bear and turkey i mean to non-tribal you know have good opportunities at that as well or is that something yeah so we have a spring spring bear fall bear we also have mountain lions um and all of those things are on a spring draw so that will be coming up pretty soon as well uh let's do it i believe it's march sometime isn't it i believe it's march 16th is the deadline i'd have to look at the proc on that one but anyway so they um you apply the same way the only difference there is instead of a 50 application fee what we're asking for is all money up front and to enter the draw for the license fees so that's uh you know six six fifty somewhere in that range depending on if it's a mountain line app or a bear app

and then the way that works is you have a season the spring season and then you have a fall season for bear uh you would have to hire a tribal member guide that does bears uh and coordinate with him and and go from there and then uh choose your own dates uh within the season so uh although the season might be april 15th through june um you would your hunt is only going to be the some five days that you decide between you and your book it with them prepare gotcha um then mount line is is uh we have uh 20 licenses on on a draw and the way that works is very similar if you draw essentially you reserved your tag and then you would choose your own seven days throughout the season the season is year round so um you have to pre-choose so you don't know or do or can you choose right before you go quality for snow yeah for snow you're waiting on snow is what you're doing so um yeah so those are

those two things and turkeys um you know i i definitely enjoy chasing turkeys in the spring and this is uh one of the best hunts i can think of for merriams um it's a really cool hunt lots and lots of turkeys a really cool time of year to be out in the woods um you cannot shed hunt if anyone's asking you know they'll go buy a turkey tag and go shed hunting instead no um anyway uh yeah so that's first come first serve coming up is there a limit a limit to them or i mean obviously first come first serve or i mean tough to get a turkey it's a 550 license and there's 30 tags available so they go on sale march 2nd as well march 2nd they go on sale and that's when you you'd reserve your license so on any of these first come first serve licenses all we're doing is you know we're we want folks to call in and uh tell us yes i'd like a turkey tag and uh what we'll do is we'll write their name

and information on the roster and you have five business days to get us an application and fees and the license is yours so we're trying to simplify the process we're trying to stay away from draws the best we can um trying to get folks to commit to coming to hunt here in the fall before any of the western draws are are out um and uh it seems to be working and and uh you know we're getting some pretty good feedback from from some of the hunters that have uh come here the last couple years so awesome well is there any stories did you get out to hunt yourself did you kill one of these 200 inches or i don't i don't get to hunt here i can't afford to hunt here you know i'm just an holy biologist but geez no i i apply for many western states every year and my draw odds are terrible so um but i did get out in colorado fourth season had a had a good time and killed a

nice old buck didn't didn't score very well but um nice old buck i'm happy with them but um down in that country country close to you just north of you yeah that's that general area cool well that's awesome well is there anything you want to add as we as we close down this thing and want to tell anybody anything that we missed or um i would just say you know check us out online and feel free to pick up the phone if there's any questions um there's a lot of uh uh misinformation and that and i think my job one of my roles is to make sure that uh we provide good information and i appreciate the opportunity to be on the podcast to do that so yeah you've given us your website we appreciate that and we'll make sure we have a link to that as well but what is uh since some some individuals might listen to this before march 2nd and want to jump on the phone what is the phone number that they

need to be calling um march march 2nd or later try to if they're interested in buying one of these hunts talked about sure area code 575 759-3255 and it's hickoryahunt.com as well hickoryahunt.com is is the is where we send everybody the first step is downloading the proclamation and reading and understanding the seasons and you know anything like that so um if there's uh if there are any questions feel free to give me a call i'm happy to have those conversations all right colin we sure appreciate you being on with us uh it's awesome it's always fun to talk about big deer um you've seen uh couldn't help but thinking you're uh surveying four to five thousand head of deer out of the helicopter you probably saw a good one how good how good a bucks am i seeing yeah yeah those pictures are are stored in a vault somewhere okay no i would say out of just to put it into perspective

um i've flown uh 12 surveys since i've been here and uh this this 20 uh early 2020 survey was the best survey i've flown for big bucks come on period come on yep and i'm not just saying that that's a teaser that's a mega teaser right there we need either bronson we need to figure out how to hunt the hick or hunt everywhere around that grand huh huh everyone else that's right all right kyle well have a good day appreciate your time kyle we appreciate you yeah good talking with you guys all right talk to you later

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