EP 208: Point Creep and What to Do if You Didn't Draw

So, anyway, lots of point creeping going on out there. Arizona OTC here had a lot of changes. Some were unaffected. Some changed dramatically. Some went all the way to limited entry. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast powered by Under Armour. Hey, everybody. Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, Chris Peterson coming at you from Southern Utah. All right, everybody. Well, anyway, we're having a good time here in Southern Utah, although I do need to start us off with appreciating Under Armour for sponsoring this podcast and all the support they give us here at Epic Outdoors. We appreciate you. Good job. They do have some new products coming out here in about a month, month and a half, and their website, ua.com, should be loaded. So, anyway, great products, doing great, doing good things, and so we appreciate them. But, Bronson, how was the point of this?

What's the point creep in Colorado? I don't know. I had zero points, and I didn't draw Jack. I heard it was really bad. In fact, all three of us had zero points, so I really didn't care. Hey, I still got a second choice tag. How about that? Oh, yeah? You're gonna keep it? It looks like I might have to. Landowner tags are premium. Bronson, it's bad when you can't even buy your way in. I know. Can't even buy your way in. I know. I can't even do it either, and I'm trying to make $500 off of you. By the way, I think you have a You had to take me up on that by May 1. Well, I told you I was going to do it. We're going to have to replay that. No, I told you I'm going to do it, but I can't make it. I don't think you were contractually bound. I think the idea was... No, I told you. I agreed on the podcast. It's archer and muzzle. It's going to happen.

We're going to have to review some podcasts to see what the liabilities are. You're liable for $500. That's what you're liable for. If there's any fine print that'll get me out of it. Actually, Bronson, you go. I don't think I can take your money. Absolute worth the five Benjis. I don't think I can take your money. Dude. So, what he's telling you, everybody, is he's lined up for the muzzy or archery. He's telling me that. He's telling you that. I've already said that, yeah. And you heard it here first. Or second. Foregoing. Or second. So, anyway, I'm excited to pay you. $500. I don't know if it's legal to gamble in Utah, but we did it. Well, it's not really big. How about we do $4.99? Because I know the big buck contest in Utah, you can't do anything over $500. Is that true? Let's just call it $4.99. Is that true? Yeah.

We should put on a big buck contest for $4.99 plus a bunch of free gear. Huh? Yeah, I don't know if that counts. I don't know. What if we do that? Dude, you know what? These podcasts are good for coming up with ideas. We're going to do it on weight, see how many lead pipes fall out of. No. That thing was 300 pounds dressed a blunt of meat. No, I don't care about that. The old days they did. Width and weight. Width and weight. Width and weight. Width and weight. Width and weight. I don't know. Remember how they used to score them? The T score was like width plus height, and then you add the points or something like that. I wonder how they got T out of that. Well, it's, you know, height, width, plus, okay. I don't know. But anyway, all right, I don't know why we're there, but anyway, we have a good friend of ours, Steve Carroll, stops into the office whining that

And because of me, he didn't get drawn. Party of four is no longer having Colorado. They've canceled hotel reservations, meat packers. Single-handedly crushing the economy. Yeah, well, we're not really crushing the economy because somebody took the tag. Somebody's going. I agree. I think they're going to spend more. I think they're going to spend more. It's alive and well, especially on units with lower tag totals. Anyway, lots of fun stuff going on here. Epic Outdoors, Western Big Game Hunting. It's pretty awesome. We had a lot of stuff going on, a lot of plans being made, a lot of dreams being crushed. Did you take that razor out this weekend? Hmm, no. The Epic one? I didn't have a chance to. Why not? I don't know. Give them a plug. That thing's bad. Yeah, they're pretty awesome. Triple S, if anybody is kind of watching our Insta-feed. We also put it out on YouTube. Did we? Yeah.

It was awesome. The delivery video. The delivery of the Epic package. Well, I had to tease him that the Polaris label wasn't all wazooed out like the Epic label. It wasn't that I was dissing on Polaris, but anyway. No, Polaris doesn't have antlers involved, so it's not as cool. That's right. That's just flat out. But what an awesome build. It's the Epic build. Sounds good. Rolls off the end of your tongue. Anyway, it's a four-seat razor. It's pretty bad A, right? It'll throw you back in the chair. That turbo works. You and John, when I already went out in Classic, I saw a picture of John Glassing. It might have been a photo shoot. I don't know. We went out by... Flunned? Back behind my house. Oh, yeah. All right. Well, anyway, it's pretty awesome. Appreciate them. Triple S Polaris, 435-865-0100. 435-865-0100. Triple S Polaris, they'll deliver, hand-build, hand-craft,

Customized, whatever you need. Anyway, super good people. Give Colton a call. He runs the place and has good people that work for him, too. So, anyway, here in Cedar City, Utah, they know their stuff. They'll sell you anything. There's even a six-wheeler. He's got a six-wheeler in there with the Epic logo on it. Yeah. Who authorized that? But it does look cool. It does. So, whatever. Throw them on there. Throw them on all of them for all we care. All right. What's next, Bronson? Got anything else coming up? No, we got a lot of... The optics on the front burner. I mean, it's been a busy couple of weeks, it seems like here. It's that time of year. Tags have come out. A lot of them, 80 percent, we'll say, have come out. You know what you've got or what you don't have. Those of you that are making plans, you better get on it.

We are getting better. In fact, we've got a huge shipment, Carter, of 95 millimeter objectives from Sguarro coming in this week. Like 100 pounds worth, or 200 pounds. I don't know. I don't know. How many pounds, how much weight did we bring in on optics? Can we just say how many pieces instead of pounds? The guy had to strap on a freaking back saver thing to freaking bring all the stuff in. We're getting optics in like it's our job. Loads of 95s. But if you've been waiting for those, for ATX, STX, or BTX options, or if you had a 65 or 85 and you want the 95 now, now's the time to get them. These have been on back order for a lot of places for a long time. We've been getting them trickling in. We've had a few orders in, 15 or 20 in the last few months, but this is the first log jam breakage, it feels like. It feels like these we ordered dozens how many months ago. Yeah, yeah.

That's right. So, give us a call. We've got awesome prices on them. They're ready to hit the streets and hit your pack and get out in the hills. It is time to get out in the hills. I'm starting to see everybody posting up pictures of being out in the hills and loading up woods with trail cameras. And so, anyway, now's the time. It's that time. You're needing trail cameras, give us all as well. We got a whole room dedicated toward it and loaded with cameras in there. Lots of pounds. Cameras and boxes. Pounds. Pounds. Pounds. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of them. And then we have the EL Range TAs back to the optics. We do have Swarrow with the EL Range TAs, the new 10x42.

It's got the amazing, classic, Bronson, I mean, I can't tell a huge difference, maybe not any difference, between the NL Pure 10 Power and these EL ranges. Pretty impressive. They're pretty impressive. They say there's a difference, but it's hard to notice. They're pretty awesome, pretty crisp. You'd have to be here right at the crack of dark, and I'm usually in bed by then. All right. So, anyway, pretty awesome. We do have, Bronson, you initiated this whole package. Why don't you go ahead and... Well, we had a... We had a few, kind of like when we get a big shipment, a log jam breakthrough. We had a log jam breakthrough on some of our Vortex tripods. The Summit Carbon, nice lightweight, packable tripod with a head, tripod head and everything included. We had an awesome little package we threw together with the 18x56 Razor UHD Bino, and we've got a few of those left.

And we did the Summit tripod kit. The entire kit comes with a little plate, head, like you said, everything. With a pair of UHD 18x56 Vortex Razor UHDs. And then a 10x42 pair of Diamondback HDs. Free, right? What is it? Tripod's free, pair of 10s are free, and all for the price of the 18s. Yeah, call us while they last. $16.99. While they last. They're not going to last. We only got a few left. All right, and that is the truth. One last thing, Bronson. We have one bow left. One Hoyt RX5 HBX. It's set at a 29 inch draw, but the draw range is 28.5 to 30. It's a 60 to 70 pound weight bow.

What color is that? Wilderness or buckskin? It's Wilderness, which is what? Kind of a dark green. Gorgeous bow. Not to be confused with gecko green. First $1,225 takes it. What? You just blew by gecko green like I didn't even say. I don't know. I've got something on my mind. I don't know what it was. $1,225. First $1,225 takes it. All right. What else? Here we go. No, I think that's up for that. Or if there's something we haven't talked about, and you're thinking about it, whether it be Swarov-15s, Swarov-Spotting Scopes, Zeiss Bino, Zeiss Riflescopes, Leica, it doesn't matter. Give us a call. We've been super aggressive on our orders, way over ordering when we felt the crunch coming months ago, and consequently, we've been able to keep stuff flowing. So, keep us in mind. Prices are awesome, and we promise you we're going to make it worth your time. Give us a call. Check it out.

Okay, everybody. We did talk a little bit about, you know, point creep and some of these different things. We've seen a lot of point creep across the board, and it's kind of a weird saying. Point creep. Kind of like do-it-yourself or DIY. It's just one of those terms that's being thrown about. How do you describe it? It's just when there's a frenzy, everybody wants something for certain reasons. And this year, the dates in Colorado was the reason. The dates brought people to the table. Second, third, and fourth season, crushed stuff. They also want to feed their families in this COVID environment. I wonder how it affected cow tags. I don't know. It feels like there's demand for everything. Probably had to burn points on cow tags left and right instead of second choice. So, we had a lot of units taken, I mean, 44 second went from a partial draw of seven up to 14, 15 points guaranteed it.

I mean, let's call it a seven point jump. Yeah, double. Seven point jump, right? Well, and you're talking about, I think, 50 total tags, roughly, if I'm remembering, Carter, right? I mean, that's a low number. That's not non-resident tags, so that's a low number of tags, and the lower the number of tags, the higher potential creep it affected. So, it's unfortunate if you had hopes, dreams, plans, and... People are angry. Yep. People are angry. I'm angry. I got a second choice tag, which is fine. I should be grateful, but I'd like to get a landowner tag. I can't find one, but they're just hard to find.

So, there's a lot of demand out there. We had a lot of point jumps, and keep in mind, Adam and I don't have any of this written down. We never come to the table with anything. We should have better notes, Bronson. But off the cuff, I mean, you're talking incredible point jumps, I guess a 68 third. I mean, it went from whatever, let's call it a 7 point type. Yeah, up to 12. Partial with 11, 12 points. Those are huge jumps. It's going to be interesting next year. What is reality going to be next year? Is there going to be any relaxation? What do you call relaxation of point creep? What's the opposite of point creep? Lessening. Of the point... I don't know. What's the word? Point creep versus point blank. What is the word? I don't know. Chris? Deflation? Lessening of demand. I don't know, Bronson. Regardless, though, what I think is interesting is there's always

is a new level set. There's a new bar, right? It doesn't feel like it goes the other way. It doesn't generally, but sometimes we've seen it where, like, there's one guy that applied with 20, one guy that applied with 17, two guys with 16, the next point guy is like 11. And it really shows 16, even though the next guy with 13 or 12 would have got it, but there There wasn't a guy, so the next year it happens. And then next year you have a lessening, all of a sudden, boom, wow, I can't believe a guy snuck in with eight when it was 16. Stuff like that happens, right, in these weird places. Yeah, not even weird, just kind of off the radar. Yeah. You know, northern units or whatever, southern and northern units. Feels like center of the state, there's lots of demand. Feels like inflation. Anyway, and then you have, when guys look at it, they have a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It took eight, I'm not going to apply there because I have six. I want to make sure I draw, so I'm going to go somewhere else. Oh, it took eight, I have nine, that means I get it, I'm going to apply. And so, a lot of those, what's on paper is what happens. And also, now you're going to have people that have 15 points that have been doing points only, but now that they see 68 took 12 points, they're going to be comfortable burning 15 points there, When the year before, heck no, that only takes eight. I'm not gonna burn that many points. So many times. Now they're gonna see, oh, it takes about what I got, I'll do it. Yeah. The unit didn't change. No. It's the same unit. Yeah. People struggle. People want to come in by a razor's edge. And feel like they got something. Feel like I got a deal, right? And we tried to talk about it a lot, and I understand we couldn't go through unit by unit

I didn't say this is what every unit is going to take, but I feel for people. I'm glad I burned my points last year. All three of us did, and different units, different places, different seasons, so it's not like it's all we had a perfect plan. We just did stuff. Part of the reason for doing that last year is I knew this year was going to be harder. Your points, your unit that you drew last year probably took six or eight this year. You drew it like three? Two or three? Four? Did you? Okay. But I mean, you wouldn't have a prayer this year with five. No. Not even touched it. Crazy how all this works. So anyway, lots of point creeping going on out there. And just a lot of demand. And unfortunately, after Colorado hits, it's the last huge state.

You got Wyoming, you got Idaho, but then you got Arizona. And you've got, it's a hard place for the mule deer enthusiast to just go burn your points in Arizona, Carter. Let's go hunt a 3A3C or something different. Early Kaibab. Yeah, early Kaibab. But still takes 14 points. The biggest butt kicker is known to man. Still takes 14 points, doesn't it? Yeah. And one year, the early Kaibab killed numerous giants. One year. And it seems like everybody remembers it. Ah, you're saying I got a chance. Ever since then, the butt kicker of all butt kickers, that's not an easy one. No, it's... For trophy hunters. It's a lot of... Yeah. You're gonna see a lot of deer. Yeah. If you're just a deer hunt, good. Arizona, most people equate that to They have giant bucks, you know, and they just don't have very many giant buck units in the state.

It's the biggest bottleneck log jam for trophy mule deer hunters about anywhere. Yeah, there's not one state that's had less applicants this year. Not one. Everybody's 10, 15, 20 percent up. And even states like Kansas, way up. Like 7,000, what'd they say, 7,000 people that didn't get Kansas tag. Did you apply? And historically, it's been like a 95% draw, and I didn't draw. Wow. What did you apply for? Whitel? Whitel, Kansas. I love, I love, Kansas-whitel. I just told you, Jason. You know where I'd. I just told you. What state are we talking about? I didn't know there was antelope for non-resident in Kansas. Yeah, anyway, pretty funny stuff. I love teasing Chris. Southeastern Kansas. No kidding. Perfect. All right. Well, hey, you get two units. But I will not be going. Well, Bronson, we're doing some different things next year. Next year?

When you say next year, does that mean this year, or you mean next year? No, I mean 2022. Like what? Well, you promised we were going to do Montana. I said we should. I thought it was a commitment. Well, it's still on the table, yes. That's a long ways away. September 2022, Carter, is a long ways away. Yeah, it's what, nine, ten. But don't forget to get your points this summer so that we're on track. All right. I'm just saying, like, there's a lot of things that have been on our mind in the past, but we keep putting them off, and now they're becoming more front burner because the options down here... Yeah, you can grab them. You can get a Montana tag, something you can grab, you can get. Go get another archery elk tag somewhere else. Go make it happen. And hunt 350 bulls. And there's that potential up there.

Go make that happen somewhere else. It's very difficult. So, that's why we're elevating it somewhat. But anyway, we'll see if that comes to fruition. So, what can you do, Bronson, what can you do if you're looking to go on a hunt now, and you've just got the bad news from Colorado, reality sets in, you're gonna have like the turn-back options in Colorado, which is gonna be tough, but hey, it's anybody's game. Yeah, and Nevada. I'm just not planning on those. I'm the most intrigued about. It's going to cost you your points. Yeah, and so this ain't a freebie. It's not a freebie. And you're not going to be able to scout, so you better know when you jump on something, you better know something about it because the hunt's already probably started or within days of starting. Yeah. Because they're 14 days the max. So, I mean, it's going to be interesting.

We'll shout out the website when we have all that. That's coming in later in, well, it'd be end of July, early August. It'll be 14 days prior to August 10. Yeah. It's the first, you know, real tags going up. And then same thing... What if somebody turns in their Silver State tag? That could come in a little early. Okay, 14 days prior to August 1. Or July 1. Is it July 1? I don't know. So, that could be June. I don't know on the Silver State. Yeah. July 1. And so now... That could be June 16th. Somebody could be turning a Silver State tag. Somebody better be laying away, checking the turn back option for a Silver State tag. I don't know. It might not fit in somebody's plans this year. It might cause a divorce. It could almost cause a divorce. Could be worse. I dare you to say what? I can't think of anything. Okay, good answer.

So, anyway, you've got some of these turn-back options. There's going to be a lot of them. I've talked to so many people that have turned back a Nevada tag, or are going to, because you still get a point. You still get plus one as if you never got it. You're just not going to get your money back. Yep, but other than that, outside of those, it's getting tougher. Idaho used to always be the deer option for people to buy in the summer and fall. That's gone, with the exception of some turn-back tags there. They're gonna have those. You got a general, you can turn it back in once a month, starting twice a month in September. Yeah, they're gonna start giving those out, but really, you start, what do you really have? Colorado Elk, Carla. Let's really talk about that.

Well, I mean, dude, there's been numerous big bulls taken. Okay, now, percentage-wise, compared to how many tags they sell, it's very low. But there are some big bulls being taken in Colorado, and some guys are deer hunting, bedding a bull, going back to town, grabbing a tag, coming up and smashing it. And how about that? You threw it out. Maybe you grab an elk tag for a unit you're looking at burning your points on, and I'm not saying every single unit that has good deer also has good elk. So, I'm just telling you that isn't always the case. And it's not chump change, what is it, six, seven hundred bucks to buy an elk tag for non-residents. It's not cheap. But, there's an option. Go to Colorado, check out a unit. Hey, hunt a couple units. You're not, when you buy a second season, third season, or an archery tag, you're not confined to a unit.

You can't find to a certain unit. You get to hunt all those units that are open to the general season tag. So, bounce around a couple, hunt a couple, maybe go second season hunting here. Hunt 18 to 161, the sixth, all the way over to 62. 43, yeah, whatever. 21. Across the state. But it gives you something to go do, and maybe learn something while you're there. Maybe you like the looks of the country, and you're more galvanized than ever to go back when you burn your deer points. But I'm just giving you some options. We don't practice what we preach there a whole lot. I've done it a handful of times in my life. You know, it's been a long time, frankly, since I have. What, an over-the-counter elk tag? Yeah, in Colorado. But I'm just telling you, hey, we're talking about it. It's just, you know, an option. It is an option. If you have nothing, it better be a big- And it's a viable option.

It's a pretty big, big option. And Bronson, in all reality, rarely do we go on these deer hunts and not see a bull you could kill. Well, yeah, without trying. And if you don't want to spend $700, take your kid. What is it, $101 or something like that for a kid youth tag? We spit out a lot of numbers off the cuff, and people are going to crush us if we get one wrong. What's a 101? I mean, whatever. It's a Benji plus some pocket change. I'm just saying, anybody out there, if we misstep or mis-say something, just realize this is just...we have no numbers. I'm talking round numbers. Come on. $100, take your kid there. But it's true. What have you lost? Well, nothing.

It doesn't even take your points. We have a lot of people... You can do it for a three-day weekend for your kid, it's worth it. Yeah. I mean, just to go spend some time. And your wife's thinking you're a hero. You're spending time with your son or daughter. Out in the hills. And if you time it right... Scouting deer units. And if you time it right, you might miss... get to miss Halloween. Yeah, that's true. Second season. Good point. That used to be a pretty immovable holiday in my family when my kids were little. My wife was like, you will be home for Halloween. I'm like, Halloween? This is not one of the big ones. I'm rarely home for Halloween. This is not a big one. But when I am, I enjoy, I like walking around the neighborhood. Oh yeah, but it's a bad time. Hand in hand, family. It's a bad time to be, have to be home.

But when the wife's prepared, and they've got the kids decked out, and they want to... $14,000 worth of candy bars waiting to hand out to other little munchkins. And it's good, and I love seeing my kids, they're happy when they do it. But man, a couple times it was a source of contention. Well, I mean, that's just called buried life. Chris, you'll find out. She'll find out. All right, so anyway. Plus or minus two weeks, plus or minus a week for two either way of that. Chris, that's as vague as we're going to be, right? All right, all right. So, more positive things to talk about here. Let's see. We do have some over-the-counter archery opportunities in Arizona. And, you know, we've watched some of those opportunities. They're starting to dissipate. You can still hunt a lot of the units, just maybe not the seasons you got last year or whatever. Maybe in August only. Maybe a December.

It's not in the September season, not January, whatever. Made some changes to that. Definitely need to pay attention to the regulations before you just make your plans for this year, because Arizona OTC deer had a lot of changes. Some were unaffected. Some changed dramatically. Some went all the way to limited entry. You know, a few. I shouldn't say some, but a few. But what I think is interesting about some of this stuff, you know, is we've seen with our own eyes some big deer. Let's, for example, we hunt, well, I guess I'm in a crisp mode here. Let's see. A sheep unit in the 40s, and we were down there and saw like a mid-90s buck. Did we ever hunt it? No. Yeah. Never even hunted. And the archery season's on. The over-the-counter archery's on. It's always a hard time for us, and we've said this as an excuse, but it really is.

It's January. Even December and January is hard for us. It's back in the office time. We've got magazine stress. What did you just apply for for a December hunt? What did you just apply for? Early December. Fourth to the eighth. There's something along those lines. I can't remember exactly. Whitetail, it seems like. I'm going to try to kill a whitetail, yeah. Yep, Bronson's going to Iowa, everybody. You heard it here first. That's right. Actually, I don't even know if you want that advertised. We can cut that if you want. I don't care. Okay, everybody. I've just got a friend that invited me to come, and it's time to go do it. Time to go do something different. It'll be fun, I think, if I stay warm enough. Do you know when the last bout of Blue Tongue hit the area? I don't know any of those things. No. Well, you're going to find out, boss.

You know when the season is, and I know a scoped muzzleloader is a legal weapon. That's right. That's about what I know. Oh, it's pretty fun. I'm excited for you, actually. But it is true. You're busy that time of year, and you're doing a hunt, and that's about it. Yep. So, wow, what else are we going to talk about? Well, let me give a shout out to a couple of sponsors, and then why don't you think about, I think we ought to call somebody. Call our friends? Yeah. I want to give a quick shout out to one of our other sponsors, St. James Sporting Properties. If you're looking to buy or sell or have family that are looking to buy or sell, or friends, Whatever, hunting, ranching, recreational property in the West, give Blaine St. James and the folks at St. James Sporting Properties a call.

They know what they're talking about. Licensed in Colorado, Idaho, Kansas, Montana, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah, and Wyoming. Phone number 877-354-7247 or sjsportingproperties.com. Blaine's a big hunter. We've known him for a long, long time, and he can be right. It's a great time. Great time to sell. I guess if you got money, it's a good time to buy, too. You know what's funny about that is everybody says, you know, let's wait for things to come down and we'll be all in. But it's just that whole, the whole, yeah, it's just like the whole premise of getting a good deal. Takes nine points, I got nine. If I could squeak in, I'd do it.

And then when it takes 11, you're like, ah, geez, I can't imagine applying for something with seven. Same thing on this stuff. Yeah. Never goes down really. That's right. Right? That's right. I want to give another shout out to MOA Rifles, another sponsor. If you're looking to upgrade your rifle game, give Bob and the guys at MOA Rifles a call. Half MOA guaranteed rifles. They've got several different models to choose from. For private consultation, give them a call at 541-526-1850. Or visit them on the web at moarifles.com. They make great rifles as well as some accessories through the Rugged Ridge Outdoor Gear accessories and little tack drivers. So, I got a question for you. So, I just don't understand why... So, you named your MOA rifle Sheila, right? Little Sheila. Right? Yeah. Why not Jerry? Why not Bob?

Did any of you guys ever name a good truck or a vehicle? Does it have a male name or a female name? Yeah, that's right. I know! I don't know why it is. Old Betsy. I know! Every time. I know, it's every time. I don't know what it is. It's not just you. It's everybody. Me too. But I had a hunter one time, he's like, called his gun meat in the pot. Meat in the skillet? No, it was meat in the pot. I had another guy called his meat in the skillet. Did he?

I'm like, when old meat in the pot speaks, there's meat in the pot. I don't know about that. I just watched you miss 14 times. I don't know. I don't know. Need a little Sheila. It's one of those family hunt terms, kind of like a truck, old Betsy. But little Sheila spoke this last weekend. She barked. Tell me a little bit about it. She barked in and amongst some hound dogs. That's right. Pretty awesome. Yeah. My boy drew a Utah spring limited entry bear tag. Yes, they are a We're all here in Utah. But, anyway, he drew it, got lucky and drew it. And in and around school, baseball season, all that, we hadn't been out much. Been out four or five days earlier in the hunt, you know, on short two-day trips. But anyway, school kind of finished, and we had five or six days left in the season.

Went out. First day back out, I guess, last week. Got a great track, smoking hot track. We were some buddies of ours, Hunter Mecham, Mecham Outfitters, Mecham Hounds, Wade Holloman. We've both given away lion hunts with them in the past. But anyway, great guys, local guys here. We know them well. Great dogs. Anyway, we caught up to this bear, and yeah. Smashed it. One of these old bears that just wouldn't tree, so had to jump down in the canyon with it. And Wade and TJ got tied, lined up on the gun. You know, you can't just rush into a dog, a bear and a pack of dogs. They wind you or see you're coming. They'll get a second wind, and they're taking off, you know, especially an old bear. So anyway, they got down in there.

I got laid down on a rock, and I think it was about a 280-yard shot. Bear coming up across the other side of the canyon. Dog's kind of front and back, and he smoked it. One shot right behind the shoulder. It was awesome. And done. Bear was done. A couple steps. Smashed him. A little 6.5 PRC and two steps and just breaking it out. And you were half nervous about the caliber, but it just turned him inside out. Well, a little bit, but it was a nice little caliber for packing all the time. And I don't know, if you have to maneuver on the ground, you don't want some big thing. Anyway. But it was awesome. Great. That was an MOA gun, 6.5 PRC. And it was an awesome bear. Yep, it was a great time. It was a great experience. Great thing to do in the spring. He's pretty jacked, and got kind of the adrenaline rush of being up there a little bit close to see if the dog's working, make it happen.

So, anyway, so. Pretty awesome. All right. How about we call Hefe or somebody like that? Yeah, should we call Jeff? Been a little while since we called Jeff. Speaking of bear hunting, I think he's hunting bears, or trying to. It's just, he's always positive. That's what I like. Big, loud, booming, fun conversation with old Jeff. Let's give him a holler.

What?

Buenos tardes, Hiffin. Oh, no. Are you bear hunting or installing bodays? What are you doing today? Bodays? Bro-days, I guess. I don't know what they're called. Oh, yeah. Bode, bode, bode. We've had this discussion. You know why people go with those, right? No, I don't. I really don't. Do you really want me to? I mean, I got a feeling with both of you on there, this is definitely on our... They are a violation, in my opinion. I'm thinking about loading my house with them. Everybody that has them say you have to have them. Adam, think about this. No, I can't. Say you were, you know, cleaning up whatever you want to call it, and you got some on your hand.

I walked to my freaking sink and washed my hands. It's like two 18 inches away from you. Same theory. Same theory. You played into his hands, Austin. Yes. You validated what he's talking about. But I don't have to put... But you use soap at the sink. I don't have to put 80 PSI in a fine stream in a sharp, gentle area. I just put one in for a good buddy of mine, and he was super questioning it. But see, we put in the Cadillac of toilet seats here. It's a heated seat, so you sit down and it's heated. I'm never there long enough to need it heated. I mean, it's busy. This is the coolest part. People say they'll drive across town just to use that particular pot every time. You walk into the bathroom, and this thing actually, the lid opens on its own, and a light turns on. So, you don't even have to turn the light on in the middle of the night.

Does it say, you open the door and it say, welcome, Jeffrey. If it's not personalized, I'm nervous. Gee. What was angry you two up to today? Well, we were wondering about, like, well, we were just wondering what you were doing. Hey, you're baiting bears or installing stuff. Oh, my gosh. You know, I think I actually am on record on the podcast saying this whole bear baiting thing is overrated and it takes too much work. You've done that before, like three or four years ago, didn't you do this under yourself? I did. Now you've got a couple boys, or who's got tag? And you know, it's just like your, it's Kayson, yeah, my boy Kayson does. It's just like, you know, how like women go through childbirth and everything, and I think in the middle of it, they're like, they're like, I'll never do this again, and then six months later, they're like, oh,

that wasn't too bad. I think it's the same theory with this whole bear baiting thing. You're You're like, I am not doing this again. I've ruined my pack because of all the greasy crap that I'm packing in at half a mile. And you think you're not going to, and then you do it. I don't know. It's bad. So, you're back. Plus, now you're living back in northern Utah, and you're trying to bait in central Utah, so it's not as easy as it was when we lived locally. It's not quite as easy. Three to four hour drive. Yeah, it takes us about three hours, 30 minutes We took 30 minutes to get to the bait site. Well, to the place where we park our truck, and then we got a little wheeler. Are you using a certain bear crack, or what are you doing? You know, so, I tried doing the whole pick up the pastries, leftover stuff, and it's just not worth it to me.

It's so much easier just go, you know, buy a $20 bag of dog food and go take it out, because it is work. It's more work to go around and pick up all the garbage, and you know, your time's just worth something, right? Kind of like diesel. Weren't people using like grease from McDonald's, and they gotta wait and go gather it and make grease? Yes, yes. Let it settle, sift, and... If I ever learned anything from Jason Carter, it was time is of the essence. Get that crap, get it out, get it on gear. Like, don't waste your time, right? Don't learn anything from me, Jeff. Don't learn anything from me. So, you got your bait set, or where are we at? Yeah, we're set. We got them out last week. We went and checked them on Sunday, and so far, no hits. It's still empty. But, yeah, I don't know. I mean, it was only 72 hours to the hour.

Did you use the Fusion, the cellular cam, so you know it hasn't been hit? You know, I've got a Fusion on them, but the service isn't great right there, and I just don't think it's quite good enough. Like, it's not loading you on a regular basis. Yes, I just don't think it can connect the way it needs to connect. So, which is disappointing, which I'm like, I should have went and picked specific spots that I could use the Fusion on just because of it, you know what I mean? But there's not great service all over through there, so it's tough. So, really though, what's the discussion today? What are we working on? Well, we were talking about Colorado too, and Point Creep, and the weeping, wailing, gnashing of teeth. Are you part of that bunch? Yeah, dude. I mean, it was close to 100% with zero points. And this is the muzzleloader. You know, I took the epic outdoor consultant's advice.

The hunt season. Yeah, and I went for the muzzleloader, and it was an epic fail, I guess you could say. Wow. Because I did not draw. I did not draw. But what I couldn't believe is my kids both drew on the third. Oh, good. So, there might have been a major point jump to the second, is what I'm thinking. Yeah. Well, they probably had to do it. If you tell us which unit, we could look it up for you. We'll take a hard pass. But both of them got tags. That's good. A couple of thirds in the same unit. Yeah, with two points. It was great. Same unit? Yep. Are they excited? Or is dad more excited than the ball? No, I think they're pretty excited because now the third season is squarely out of football season. So, before it was like, well, if you went to state, you know, like if you went to playoffs and went deep at all,

Oh, you're screwed. You're screwed. Yep. And now, dude, there's no way we're gonna make it to the 20th. And so now, they're after football, and they just get a miss of school, probably, a day or two. Yeah. Yep. What's wrong with that? Nothing. It's great. In a five-day season, it doesn't feel like you're leaving a lot on the table, you know what I mean? A fourth? Did they get a fourth or third? No, not a five-day season. A seven-day season, yeah.

Well, I'm looking at Ashley. You don't have two weekends. Ashley didn't get drawn, so she's heartbroken. Oh, yeah. I will say this. We are right close to a season that jumped significantly in points, which is pretty crazy. Like a seven-point jump? What do you mean it's close to a five-point jump? Maybe a five-point jump. And I'm thinking, well, we drew this with two, and it's right across the road. I think we're happy. Yeah. So, we're pretty stoked. It seems like you and your wife have been in discussion about a certain bar stool. Tell us the premise. Do we want to jump into that on the podcast? Yeah, let's jump into it. She doesn't listen to it. Yeah, you're good. You're clean. Go ahead. Maybe Janna won't even add it to this one. Her sister. So, here we are, sitting at another freaking furniture store, and she's got this bar stool, and it's $170.

And I'm looking at it, and I'm like, that is a hose job. For the set of four? No, this is $170 a piece. One stool. It is $170 a piece, okay. But it's one stool. And you're looking at it, and it's like, that is not $170 worth. It's not. And then, it occurs to me that, man, I've got to get applied for everything. And I think about, how much is an Idaho hunting license? 185 bucks. Significant amount of money. That's a bar stool. 185 bucks. Not including shipping and tanks. And so, at that point, I keep my mouth shut. I do not say a word about the $170 barstool, and I walk away. And you actually tell her, you actually say, honey, one barstool is going to be at a place. Get five of them. Gotcha. Not only are you not going to complain, you're going to tell her to buy more. Buy five. Yeah, do it. Because now you've got five states. Oh, yes. Smart man.

It could move, man. I love the real-life application of what is $175. That's another state I can apply for. And Jeff, you've learned a lot. Like, you know, your marriage is going to be healthier for it. Yeah, absolutely. The thing is though, and it's like we were joking around with the hyenas, of course, a little bit. This is our brother-in-laws for everybody else, you know, because we... Jeff and I are related through... we married sisters. All right, keep going. And so, it comes back to, yes, my wife keeps a spreadsheet of every dollar I spend on hunting. She does. Oh, there's a spreadsheet. I can go every year and say, so how much did I spend this year? And then I have to make sure all the credits got reapplied. You know, New Mexico's back on there. I have to, you know... Dude, she's worse than the IRS or your tax account. This is depressing. I don't like this talk.

No, this is not a good... let's talk about boat eggs or whatever. Most days, we've got to talk Jana into doing one of these. No, we don't. No, we don't. We're happy. It would be pretty entertaining. No. No, it wouldn't, because it would ruin my life, too. Because I have to work around them. You guys work on your little Excel sheet. I'm not. Oh, my gosh. It's healthy or not, too. I'm telling you. You don't have her busy enough, Jeff. She's accounting for every dollar you spend on tires and four-wheeler parts. No, she doesn't. Not so much that, but it's all the empty application. It's all the once in a lifetime. We got lucky. We got lucky. You should never have drawn that bear tag. You ever thought maybe you can just turn it over to an app service and they can handle all your receipts and stuff? No, I seriously did. Epic Outdoors offers that. Last year, I seriously thought about that.

In fact, if we get a power attorney for you and not your wife, she's not authorized to ask us about purchases. That's right. We won't even divulge anything to deal with your account. Well, and then, as long as I can get a credit card, you know, that we can get down there that is not necessarily, you know what I mean? Prepaid debit. We'll put it in our name, give us the cash. You know, you guys could make a killing. Hey, that's a whole other service, Bronson. It's a whole other service, yes. What? The undercover service. It's like the wife evading applying service. Wow, that's something to be proud of. I'm going to career day with my boy at school. What do you do, Dad? I help people do a lot of their hobbies without their wives knowing. I save marriages. It's all in how you look at it, Bronson. Jason, you remember a certain person.

I'm not going to say who it is. There was a certain person that had to deliver cash to us for a landowner tag because they didn't want to write the check that their wife would see it, right? There's like many of those a year, not one. Yeah, that's not even... I don't like this conversation. What they do in their own family is... That's not for me to ask questions. No. They have agreements that we're not privy to. Alright, Jeff. Now, let's keep these podcasts rolling. I don't want you guys taking a summer break. I know scouting is going to get busy. I expect months a week. Chris came to us this morning, he's like, you've got to do a podcast. For all intents and purposes, it's a Monday, because Monday was a holiday, so it's like a Monday, and he's waking up. App deadlines are coming at us left and right. So, it's

hard, but we're getting it done, and it's a lot of mumbo jumbo. No summer breaks, right? No, we're going to say this on air, no summer breaks. I think what we can do better at, let's do better from on the road. And we can play Willie Nelson on the road again, and that That would be the theme of our summer podcast. There you go. Whatever it takes. Keep them coming, guys. Well, it's just nice that you got some bear bait out there. I'm not sure we need to edit some of the marriage counseling that you're given. What about these bodays? Are they legit, Jeff? They're legit. Aren't they customized to dudes versus girls and all this kind of stuff? Yeah, we'll spray at different spots for you. See, Bronson? That's messed up. Josh. Josh in our office. All this is going to do is make you soft, so if you go hunting now, you're going to cut your hunt short.

You're like, I don't want to go over a log out here. There's a lot of people out there that like to find a port-a-potty or something. So, I'm going to cut my hunt half a day short and drive all the way home so I can use my bow diddly-day. There's people that practice using the bathroom out in the hills because they weren't raised to doing it, Bronson. Well, some people need to if you haven't done that. It's kind of like riding a horse when you use muscles you never thought you had. Really? Did that happen, Bronson? Right, Chris? Bronson. Chris and I did it, and Adam laughed. Now, Adam went and did it. No. Dude, when we went out there in New Mexico, Chris and I... I'm not sure what you're talking about. What are you talking about? I hope you're talking about horses. Horses. Oh, horses. And I went and did that horseback hunt in New Mexico. I was...

Oh, you're sore in places you didn't know you could be sore. And then you... Oh, I was bear hunting. Yeah, and it took me four or five days in the saddle before I felt like I got this, and then it was over. And even when you felt like I got it, you were like, I'm glad it's over. Well, yeah, it was okay then, but it was painful on day three. For your boy, what day did your boy come ripping by you on a buck and brawn? That was day two, yeah. That's when he tried to do too much with, he was on a mule. You get to, you think the mules are, yeah, Two, autopilot, and they do have feelings. They are aware when you do something. And he had a pack just slapping it. Oh, slapping it.

And he was just human. He had his pack on his back, tried to take it off while we're riding to get foods and treats out of it, and then it starts slapping it, and he starts jumping, and he has a, you know, 6,000 cubic inch pack slapping the side while he's holding onto that. And he went ripping by. We finally just said, throw the pack, and he threw the pack, and the horse stopped on a dime, or the mule. I stopped. I went to Eaton Grass. It was just dead calm. Well, anyway, Jeff, you ride horses. You got any horse trips planned? Oh, no. It's been a while since I've been serious about the horses. We're actually thinking about going on a big fishing trip this summer and taking horses. Well, you better do a preparatory ride or two, because two days in, you're bow-legged, you're sore. You've got... Chris is a pro, but Chris sees it all the time, and you bring some rookie greenhorn.

Oh, yeah. Anyway, you get two days in, you just... You'd rather walk. You'd rather walk 25 miles. Oh, yeah. I've been there. I mean, I've seriously been there where I'm just like, I'm getting off the horse. I'm walking this ass two miles because I'm just about wore out. Yeah, I had to tell these guys. I said, hey, what are you doing? I said, I'm walking. I'm resting my legs. That's what I told them. I told them that. I said, I'm walking. I'm resting my legs. That's funny. Jeff, let's leave people with something positive that they can walk away from this podcast learning something. Which brand of Bode is the best one out there? Toto. They the best? Toto? Toto's the best, yeah. That's like the dog from The Wizard of Oz. That doesn't... No. Toto, yeah, Toto's the best, I think. You've lost me. You're gonna get one, Bronson. Bull crap. They say you would drive an hour to use it, versus go...

Bull. They say it. Are you thinking about putting one here at the office? No, you're not. I'm with my own money. I'm thinking about doing it. And you'll rent it. You will be paying me to be able to use it. I won't. No. Jeff? We'll just sneak one into his master. I think part of your manhood leaves when the bow day walks through your front door and goes into your house. I'm telling you, people love it. Everybody, Jeff, tell me. It's legit. It's legit. Like, you know, and I think some people are a little embarrassed to admit it, but yeah. But yeah, everybody that has one loves it. All right, guy. Well, it's very, very informative. All right, guys. Hey, do you have any marriage advice for Chris? Ooh, no. I'm not really that good at it. Just ask my wife. It's probably not the best thing. I'm not the best guy to ask. I kind of figured that. All right, guy. Okay, sounds good. All right, bye.

Bye. Okay, everybody. Well, that's about all we got, Bronzo. Is there anything else we want to talk about? No, a little bit of ramble, a little bit of light stuff. Summer's gonna be a little bit full of that, but overall, we still offer a great service here at Epic Outdoors. Keep us in mind, and one thing Carter mentioned earlier, we got trail cameras in stock. We're selling cameras like it's our job. Stealth cameras, that'd be what we got here. Stealthcam.com, go check them out. They do have some new models out there. Anyway, got some new Fusions coming. We haven't quite got those in stock, we're told, very shortly. We'll have the brand new Fusion X and the reactors. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see the new models. It's always awesome to have new stuff here in stock. So, anyway, give us a holler if you're interested in any.

You can also go to StealthCam.com again or gsmoutdoors.com. Check them out. We appreciate Stealth Cam and their partnership here at Epic Outdoors. What a great company. Yep, got lock boxes too, so give us a call. All right, everybody, it's time to start scouting. If you don't have any tags, time to start figuring out what you're gonna do. If we can help you, let us know here at Epic Outdoors, 435-263-0777. Call and ask for Jason, Adam, Josh, Chris, I don't know, anybody. Devin, Wyatt, John. All right, everybody. Talk to you. Ground Tag.