EP 216: It's Elk Month!! Field Judging and Hunting Bulls.

It's elk mugs. Have you got, yeah I know, you're supposed to hunt elk in September they say. Elk in September and deer in November. Seen some really big bulls and I'm just anxious to get after it. Anything to do with western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Testing, testing, clapping here. Remember Chris, we used to have to clap with Ridge Reaper. For video. For everybody out there that doesn't know what that is. You got to match up the sound with the videos. You always have those old time, what are they Chris? Back in the 70s, 80s when people are talking. The clickers. Well you had the clickers but then you had the, when the movie was too cheap to use the clickers. People were talking and then the voice comes later. Or vice versa. Remember? I don't know. Real cheap shows. I don't know. Oh you do too. Dude maybe it was before your time. You're an old millennial. You mean like on TV. Yeah on TV. Yeah and they're not matched up. Back when we had TVs. Yeah I don't know. Do we even have TVs anymore? Do they even make them anymore Josh? I don't know.

They're so large nowadays I don't even know. If you call them a TV? I don't know if you call them a TV. Yeah. I don't know. Everybody looks at their phones. If it doesn't come across my phone it didn't happen. Yeah. That's what it feels. Hey everybody. Jason Carter. Josh Pollock. I usually say Adam but he ain't here. He's hunting. He's spoiled. Yeah. He's in the field. So we may give him a holler and see how he's doing. But anyway. Hey. Jason and Josh. Chris Peterson. Of course he's at the keyboard making sure that he hits delete when he needs to. Because sometimes we get crazy talking about Democrats. And Republicans. All right. Well anyway. As we get started here we want to thank Under Armour. We appreciate their support here at Epic Outdoors. They do a lot for us. We do a lot for them. And it's a great partnership. So. Ooh. I got a phone call from a brother-in-law. I hit decline.

Speaking of which. Do you guys ever hit decline? They know when you decline them. Yeah. It's offensive right? Yeah. Oh yeah. Usually you want it to keep ringing so they don't feel like. They feel like it was left in the car. Whatever. But now my brother-in-law Alan just got declined.

Not important enough to interrupt this podcast. He might use your tactic and call back immediately. Yeah. That's what. Hey. This is important. I really need to know where my pin is. Anyway. Maybe he's got a piece of equipment he's trying to sell you. Maybe. Dirt mover. And by the way. I'm buying equipment left and right for this flood. I mean seriously. I bought some stuff. Josh. I borrowed your tractor. It's true. Like a farmer. I had to go buy a hat. You look good on it too. I had to put a cowboy hat on. I'm wanting a little trailer to pull a bale of hay with. All right. So. We got a lot going on. There's just a lot going on. It's basically September 1st. How about that? September. I was always taught that you hunt elk in September and deer in November. And sometimes I confuse that. You even hunt late elk and early deer. But anyway. The elk are getting ready to rut, Josh.

You've been up on the mountain. Of course you live in some of the best elk habitat in the world. What are you seeing out there? Of course you're. I don't know. You're getting the Verizon. I just got a text. Do you want to see a bull chasing cows as we speak? That's it. That's the Verizon. So Josh, this is some funny stuff. You've got. So you've got some Verizon fusions that are constantly updating you. That's legal here in Utah. Yeah. Yeah. And they're giving you a live. Maybe not next year, but now it is. They're giving you a live feed. Seems like you had a dude walk across in front of that one day. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Carrying a salt block or something. What was he doing? He was actually removing his salt block. I think. I think he probably was worried that. He's trying to. Who knows. Obey the law. Yeah. But anyway, they're working. They're working good. Oh, yeah.

I'm getting pictures from Gator Pass and pictures from Whitetail from the Midwest. So, okay. So let's quantify all this. You are getting your own photos. No, leave it on. You are getting your own photos. But then once in a while, somebody else's photo squeaks in. Yeah, every now and then I get a random picture of a Whitetail doe on Scotty's camera. It's awesome. Or Gator Pass. Yeah. It's nice to see what the rest of the world is doing. I think it's just Stelkens' way of getting us excited about Whitetail. They did do an update and I haven't got anything since. So I'm guessing that maybe was what the update was about. Just to clean things up a little bit. But yeah, here we are sitting in the office and I just get 35 pictures sent to me. The bull chasing some cows around in a meadow up on a mountain. Between that and today, of course, Colorado let go of some more tags, which you had in

your cart and didn't actually. Half. It was hanging out. Half hanging out. Somebody beat you to the actual checkout process. It's true. And so we got the turnbacks in Colorado that occur once a week. That's Wednesdays. They kind of come out with the list earlier. Let you know, hey, this is what's to be excited about. And then you're trying to get something. Yeah. And then you've got a Nevada return tags coming up. And you're constantly doing that. Plus you're updating optics and doing 14 other projects. We've got you going on here. How do you keep it all straight?

I don't.

Was there a priority list? Oh yeah. Definitely work first. Pack second. That's right. That's right.

Good stuff. So yeah, there's just a lot to keep track of. Of course, Bronson, he's in the field. He's archery hunting elk. Devin, he's been archery hunting elk. I just, I think we ought to give them a holler. And let's just see what they had to say. Maybe they'll slip up and tell everybody where they're at. I don't know. That'd be all right. Hold on. Let's call Bronson first.

He's in poor service. I mean, this was Adam, the guy that didn't have any tags at the start of the year, that was just as nervous as could be. Yeah. Let's bring that up. Make sure we were talking to the right one. And he actually had five in his pocket. Let's just bring all that up.

What's going on? Well, Mr. Bronson, you're on the Epic Outdoors podcast. We're just wondering how it's going out there.

Pretty pleasant today. Pretty pleasant. Not even 80 degrees out here in hot Nevada. Oh, all right. You can't beat that if it's only 78 degrees. Oh, it's nice. Did you get a little rain last night? We kind of got rained on all night. A little drizzle, Laskin drizzle going on. Yeah, not here until about 4 o'clock. So 4 o'clock until about a little after daylight. But it didn't amount to much. But it cut dust. And it was a little damp around. So we'll take it. But it's overcast. So that beats the 90 degrees plus it has been. Well, good. Well, hey, you know, before we dive in here, Josh had a couple questions for you. Josh, go ahead. Oh, I just – our offices might be next to each other. And I just think about four months ago when there was a guy next to me who was just in straight panic because of the amount of lack of tags he had.

Although he probably may have had the most tags in the office still at the time. Just wondering if you've talked to that guy if he's still in a panic about the amount of tags he's got now.

He's not – now he's panicked and wondering if his wife and family are still going to be home when he gets done. Yeah, exactly. Or if they're not in Hawaii or some other wazoo vacation. Yeah, it's amazing how I guess a few months – my only tags at the time were like contingency. So you got – you can't count like Idaho general and Utah general. And that's what I had at the time. So I didn't have that many. Iowa.

Well, Iowa was like – Potential Wyoming. I thought it was a Coos tag in there somewhere. Coos tag.

Oh, no. That's next year. We're not talking about it. Oh, January. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Well, how are things going? We mentioned you possibly were elk hunting. Just wondering how things are going. Are things starting to pick up? You're seeing some good bulls. How's it looking? Yeah, surprisingly there. I've heard lots of bugling. Lots of – I mean, every group of cows has got bulls with them. And, yeah, I'm surprised for the last few days of August, today being September 1st, it's – I'm pleasantly surprised because I've hunted a lot of elk in this time of year before and it's – Miserable. Miserable. Yeah. So I'll take what I'm seeing and hearing right now any day. It's just got to find the right bull and then hopefully game on. Something you can do with when you find him. Where he's at? That's awesome. Well, I was just talking to Davey.

In fact, we may call him a little bit here in a little bit. But he's saying it's cranking in New Mexico just like it's 10 days early. He says they get really cranking sometimes in New Mexico around September 10th. He's like, they are cranking right now. Well, and I've heard it's like the Garden of Eden down there. You know, it's so green. I've heard it's green, green. And I think a lot of it – over here, it was obviously – it's not the Garden of Eden, but they've had a little bit of a green up to where I think it's just gotten things in a little bit better condition than they were a month or six weeks ago. And that's probably got everything, cows included, a little bit better shape. And I think New Mexico is probably the same thing from every time here. And it's just a golf course in most places down there. Yeah. Well, so you're out in the field.

We've had some questions, and you know this. Guys, you know, quiz us all the time about field judging. And you sent us a video clip of, you know, a really stud, you know, 350s, maybe even a little better, you know, 360s type bull. But how do we know that's a 350 class bull? What are you looking at? And mentally, what are you looking at when you're looking to kill a big bull and you've killed several, you know, 380 class bulls? How are you field judging them? I mean, we all have a gut feel, but is there a way to take it a little further? Well, initially, yeah, you judge them based on how many hundreds and hundreds you've seen. And I guess that's, for me, that's what I do. But I guess to break it down, it seems like the first thing that catches your eye is the sword and the fifth and the beams. That's just what sticks up when it's bulls feeding. It's the sexy part of a rack.

Like, it's just the sexy part of an outcrack. It's what you see. Yeah. It's what you see, but the fronts, the first three, if you count those six times on both sides, in my opinion, that's where a score really cranks it up. I mean, a big fifth catches your eye. But it's one point. But that's one point. It's one point. I'd shoot a bull with big fronts and have four or five-inch fifths, but giant fronts any day. You know, they'll generally rack it up a lot more because you've got those big, you know, three points a side on the front. So big fronts. And I know, you know, when you're talking big, you're saying 20-plus. And how do you judge that? Well, you've just got to see enough of them and know that if they come out and then they hook up and that tape's wrapping underneath the underneath side and they wrap up at all, and you're looking at something probably high teens or 20-plus.

And it wraps down to the end of their nose if you were to straighten it out. Yeah, past their face. Yep, that's past their face. The other thing is main beam. A lot of times, you know, that's hard to judge as well. But this bull that I showed you today, I don't think has that long of beams. You know, it just doesn't reek of a long beam bull. So probably high 40s or maybe 50-inch or, I don't know, low 50s. Who knows? Yeah. But just a little bit. And I think it's good to quantify. Like short is generally, let's say anything under 50 short, but somewhere between 40s and 52 or 53. Medium would be 55 and long is 60, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's right. You get high 50s or 60-plus, you're dealing with a real long beamy bull. And generally then your points are all spread out a bunch, which, you know, never hurts.

You get them all spread out and they just really, you know, that rack when he turns his head just really, I don't know. Wows you. It has a different proportion. It wows you. It can reach back to the back end. The fronts are what I look at the more. Fronts and beams, probably. Yeah. Right on. And then width, I mean, you know, narrow's 38 and last. Medium's 40. Yeah, narrow. 45 plus is, or 44, 45 plus is wide, you know, for inside. I agree. And on elk, I mean, if it looks nice and wide, it's good enough because there's only been a handful of what I would say giant bulls that I thought were giant that were like 30 to 35 inches wide inside that were like, oh crap, I wish he was wider. You know, usually width is not something that ever holds you back shooting an elk. It's just not. Right. Usually on mule deer it can. Elk it rarely does. It rarely does.

Usually you're going to be upper 30s to low 40s. And then if you get 45 plus, he's really wide inside. Yeah. And then mass, you know, basically 30 a side, 60 total, but 30 a side's heavy. And then you got 28 and then you got 26, 27, but, you know, being light. But I guess the reason we bring up the numbers is sometimes there's this gut feel and you just look at them and we don't need to put them on paper, but then sometimes you want to, hey, I got my gut feel. Now I want to put them on paper. And you go and look at each time and you re-add. And I think with just adding up sheds and adding up bulls you've killed and scoring individual times and lengths and whatnot, if your paper matches your gut or you get close to that, it just makes you feel better about where you think he's going to land, you know? Yeah.

And other stuff you can, I mean, I killed the bull in Colorado about four or five years ago. So this bull this morning reminded me of that, except for that Colorado bull had bigger swords and bigger fifths. And so I just don't think, and the bull's like 361. I just don't think this bull, he's not that big. He's got a little bit better ones and twos and that's it, you know? So I think he's right around the 350, but solid bull. I don't know. I've got 15 days to hunt. Well, I don't know about 15 days to hunt. 15 days of season left. How about that? And then on to the next hunt. Yeah. Right, Josh? I think something too is if a bull has an extra, you know, if they have an extra brow tine, an extra come off his sword, something like that, it'll surprise guys pretty quick. Because you'll just look at it and say, oh, he's a 380 bull, you know?

But it doesn't take much if they get a few extras here and there to add them up. Some, you know, some nice long devil tines or whatever, it'll surprise you in a hurry too. So if they've got extras. Well, I know, Josh, you showed us the photo of a bull that you're watching that has an extra tine up front. Yeah. And is it both sides? I can't remember. Just the one side. Just the one side. But, I mean, initially you're like, that's a 370, 380 bull or whatever it is, you know. And then, oh, yeah, but he has this extra tine that's a 15-inch or 14-inch or, I mean, that changes the game. It changes everything. And yet it's kind of hidden. It doesn't wow you on the back end like Adam's talking about, but it's there and it adds up. And I think mass is one too. Mass is one deer, elk, anything. That'll surprise guys. It hides tine length. It does. It does.

I saw a bull last night that when I – I'd been dogging him in the cedars at 100 yards, 80 yards. I think I bumped his cows once because then they started trailing away from me, of course. And he was bugling the whole time. And it was a mile later I caught up to him. And I first saw him and I'm like, holy crap, his ones are giant. His threes are giant. His twos are okay. And then his swords, fifth and sixth, are just kind of bare. But he's so heavy and old and cool. I don't know. I maybe regret not making a play on him, but I turned to walk away and then I heard another bull bugling. And pretty soon that bull crept to the ridge and ran into that other bull and they fought. And the old bull that I thought was kind of tempting snapped about six inches off of his sword tine right in front of my eyes. I mean, I watched him have it and then I watched him fight for like 30 seconds.

And all of a sudden he's got no more piece of a sword on his head. But anyway, cool bull, like you said, heavy and old. A cooler bull and a bigger bull that he's going to score. Yeah. Well, and then tell us a little bit. A lot of guys are asking, and I've had it even today, but calling versus not calling. You know, I know, you know, we don't, I don't like to call a ton. I like to glass and then get in close if I need to call or bugle fine. You know, and we know when to do that. But just give us a quick rundown on what your opinion is when you call or not. I like, I try not, I don't like to do it much. Um, let the elk do it. Unfortunately, right now they're doing it pretty good. Now in the afternoon, sometimes if you, if you get into an area and you're like crunchy ground, I've let some of those out every once in a while as I'm walking through, just cause

I didn't think I'm a dude walking through the mountain or the hills, trees, but I don't, and they would fire up that bugle every time. And so, okay. They just, maybe, you know, maybe I think I'm an elk. Yeah. So that bull, he was bugling and hearing that other bull bugle and it brought him in on a string. I watched it. I mean, he was in a sea of thick cedars and came from probably a half a mile and all of a sudden they got to the edge of it and they just started fighting. So I think we're at that, that time right now. And I watched another bull way out in a big burn, just gravitate for probably a mile and a half towards this big group of five or six bulls going up here. And he just bugled and went straight towards them. So sometimes like right now when these bulls are just starting to really get cranking and

find cows and move in, I think maybe a bugle, I think I'm going to bugle more than I'm going to count call because you know, you're, you're already got bulls with cows and if a bull just thinks, Hey, there's elk over there and he's in that frame of mind that, that switch flips, he's probably coming in hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. Yeah. That's awesome. And then, you know, I like when you're, you know, walking through the trees, like you mentioned to cow call here and there, like I totally do that and you don't, and it just puts everything at ease, you know? Yeah. And there was elk in there bugling and you're in there with cedars and you know, they're kind of bedded, but you're just trying to get close enough that if they stand up, you maybe can then get in on them. But, but every once in a while you maybe step on a branch or something, you just do

a cow call and boom, when the bull bugles, you're pretty much realize, okay, he's not alarmed. All right. And then I just stay there sometimes for five minutes because if he's not coming, then I just want him to think, okay, there's a cow down there somewhere. Yeah. Well, what about optics? Are you, are you just stuck on your 12s? Are you cranking on your 12s? You're not, I mean, we've had a lot of calls of guys saying, you know, our BTX is worth it. Well, this is a hunt. You're not even going to use a BTX, not one time, you know? No, they're not. And, and they're on elk. I don't use them like I do deer and sheep either. I just don't elk are bigger. You know, I, I, I'm packing my 65, um, objective, uh, spotting a little lighter because I don't, I don't need the big 95 right now. Now I have it in my truck and there's times I'm pulling up on ridges and I'm glassing from

the truck and I grab it and it's more, more, you know, everything I want. But when I'm hiking, I have my little lightweight tripod and I have a 65 millimeter, um, yeah, STX and that's all you need to know to feel judge a bull, you know, or a mile or whatever. You know, elk are a lot bigger, so you don't need the fine tune. Hey, what is that Ram? What is that, you know, deer, whatever. So, um, yeah. And I'm carrying my 12 peers on my chest. I did bring my, my tens over here, my EL tens. Um, but I haven't worn them yet. It's still pretty big country and a lot of burns. And so I just like the versatility of throwing my 12s on my chest, taking off and pulling, putting them on a tripod just equally as fast. I can't wait to, I can't wait to have you look through my eights. I love them.

With the tripod adapter, boss, with the tripod adapter, I love them. But anyway. When you're, when you're in the cedars, yeah, it's like when you're in the cedars, thick cedars, you don't, I don't really want the 12s. But most of the time then your naked eye is going to be all you need. It's your, it's your naked eye. You're talking 50 to 80 yards. Yeah. Is, is usually about all you might ever be, or less is all you're going to be. And you're still cranking with the, you're still cranking with the six hour 2400 range finder, even though it's built for our long range rifles, it's great for archery too. Yeah. So. I've got my SIG range finder and I just got it in the, just angle, angle modified range mode. It's out of my gum profile mode and the angle compensator mode. So it'll shave off any yardage. Right. I ended up shooting down or up and, and yep, I'm good. How's, uh, well good.

That's awesome. I think that's about it. I was going to ask you, you got any sneaky feet in your pack or anything like that? No. I bought a pair dude with these mule there. Are they, I have a pair of those from the past. I, what I don't like about those is your foot is about twice as big as its normal size and they're not as nimble. I like, and so I, I'm an old school guy. I have a couple of big giant thick wool socks and I just can, they're just more contour right to your feet. I, I, they're hotter than heck. I, I, when I get caught in them for two, three hours, I about want to die because ask my wife, I can never sleep with socks on. I don't like hot feet and that drives me nuts. It's like an OCD thing, I guess. But, but when you're stalking something, you got to wear them. But that's what I use. Really old, old school thick wool socks.

You got the old school face, face mask in your pack too. Like I've got one of them. I just, yeah, I, I just pulled, I had a little pull up. It's a pull up. I wear it around my neck and pull it up when you get into them. And I've, I've never, I used to face paint years ago in high school. All that probably, probably just because it felt cool, but I hate cleaning the stuff. Well, that was a, it was a fad thing. Got to realize, Bronson, that was about 40 years ago. Actually. Well, and I don't know if they made a, I don't think they made face mask. Face mask, no. Had that face mask back then. They didn't. You had to, you had to put on face paint every day and you know, it's like, you know, yeah. Hey, I like your, I like your, I like how you call it the pull up. We could call it the epic pull up. They also make a, make a face mask. I think that's also taken for training diapers for kids.

Epic pull ups. So. All right, boss. Well. I think that's also taken for training diapers. Yeah, but it's a whole different category. I think we, I think we could patent that. Some guys age in this office. Maybe they're more mean. Yeah. There's some pull ups. Might come full circle. Josh, how old are you? Josh's a little younger than we are, Bronson. But. Yeah. Yeah. Life will, life will get him to. Yeah. I think he's starting in the morning. All right. Well, keep after it, buddy. We're going to probably give old Devin a call. See, I think he's headed to Colorado. Just see how the roads. Yeah. I think he's starting in the morning. I figured that bull I sent him this morning, get him fired up. I was going to text him and say, you better shoot that bull in Colorado. I don't know tomorrow if you see it, but we'll see how he does.

He's probably got, you know, 10 and two on the wheel and not texting and driving. He's a good person. But anyway. All right, guy. Well, we'll give him a holler. Okay. We'll see you in the morning. Yeah. I'll be out there. All right. Good luck. All right. Yeah. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

life even you know and uh pretty great opportunity pretty great opportunity we know a lot of guys it's funny because we'll see a tag and then like 20 minutes later the guy who got it calls in you know what i mean it's been it's been way fun well let's give devin a call i don't know if he'll answer maybe he's got a cheeseburger in one hand or fry in the other but hello let's see if he'll answer the phone hello hey what are you doing changing the tire what are you doing just driving are you well you're on the epic outdoors podcast i want to get that out early so you don't swear or do something dumb yeah which you don't over or something yeah where are you where are you at oh i'm way over here are you are you in wyoming i went up to wyoming dropping into colorado right now yeah did you do some scouting for

some antelope or what have you been doing yeah killed one actually what did you hit an antelope at two point yeah you hit an antelope on the road with your truck oh no i was talking about the other day i killed one oh all right yeah well yeah you did you killed a great buck over there in in nevada just a stud oh yeah but uh all right well uh why don't uh why don't you tell us where you're headed and what what new unit you're scouting i guess you're over there checking out some new country yeah i've never been here um just up in that unit 20 that'll be awesome yeah it doesn't take too many points but enough and i had enough so yeah yeah it'll be fun got some uh a little ranch to hunt with a member of ours just gonna go meet him and learn all that operation and he's got some there's some bulls so it's gonna be fun you know we're here and uh just talked to guys in new mexico we

got off the phone with the bronson uh you've been in nevada scouting around and and seeing some rutting bulls i mean things are getting cranking devon it's a good year yeah it was 50 something degrees this morning that's always good where across uh across wyoming uh like in utah county when i left oh no kidding yeah there's kind of raining but yeah well have you excited elk month have you got yeah i know you're supposed to hunt elk in september they say elk in september and deer in november but i don't know they're they're getting cranking it'll be a good year um should be awesome i think it's great you're gonna see some you're gonna see some good bulls there's there's you know we always hear about some great bulls over there so i think it's awesome you're out you know i'm gonna learn that and uh you know it'll it'll be great you're gonna learn a lot of country yeah it's always fun going

somewhere new i've never i've never hunted elk in colorado actually yeah isn't that crazy yeah just deer and well you haven't missed a ton you haven't missed a lot i've spent some time quite a bit of time and and uh and and it's good but i think some of that country you're going to there's been some abnormally you know significant bulls considering the state of colorado so yeah no i think so i think it'd be good hopefully come upon find something here yeah all right what are you guys doing well we're working right josh they're hard we had a we had a guy send in a a picture of an 86 antelope he killed he got it on the first come first serve you know tag reallocation process there in nevada and he went over there to a new unit he hit me before he went and and i couldn't tell him a ton i mean i've been

through it and seen some but it's not not like i know it intimately or anything but anyway he smashed an 86 incher man and seen a couple other significant bucks like it's it's awesome to hear back from guys you know that it is always fun i i was just driving thinking about some of the sheep hunters i can't wait to get back and call see how they did yeah we also had a guy he drew the raffle oregon sheep and smashed i think it's 187 inch ram with uh sheep mountain outfitters just killed an absolute stud sent a few photos in and um man things are happening it's just that time of year september 1st boss i know it's here it's here it's time to be killing stuff and i'm i'm about done dealing with mud i think i'm gonna go out and i don't know try to get bloody somewhere somehow you know it's time so i'll just

be here taking care of the office josh yeah so josh there's a guy he's gonna call i need to tripod he just texted me i need i had to call the office he's probably calling right now i'm on it so josh josh is feeling a little sad he had he had a wazoo deer tag in his cart from colorado and didn't check out in time so somebody beat him to it so gotta be quick on the click josh quick on the click boss yes you do then your then your world is turned upside down call the wife and family and say hey uh this life-altering event happened devon devon you had a you were click on quick on the click twice yeah that's that's how i got it got an antelope yeah isn't that awesome holy it wasn't so quick on the click of the safety we were out there for days being chris smart antelope well i thought i thought you guys were headed back and

then all of a sudden a picture shop showed up so it's pretty awesome yeah it's all good somebody's got to stay here and take care of wyatt's crew for him and make sure they're in line why it's division i'm working on a new app i don't know if maybe this is the time to announce it or not are you what is it was like uh i'm trying to figure out a name like epic meats or epic encounters i know we talked about it it's similar to like farmers only okay okay right josh anyway you know it's just kind of those things i just know maybe a dating app for hunter hunters only or huntresses i think the only thing you'd have on there is dudes there ain't no there ain't there's a few huntresses looking for dudes i'll let you have that project and i'll just be on the sidelines this is josh's i'm not i don't have anything to do with this jen i have nothing

to do with this we may have one here that's looking i don't know i'm just thinking you can either select like maybe you just need a one night spotter you know or maybe maybe you need a packer maybe you just swipe it and you need a packer you know there's different levels maybe for the whole season yeah there's different levels i don't know anyway dude that's kind of that might go so this is more than dating this is this is a different kind of this is a meeting app i'm talking strictly hunting i don't know there you go there you go by og bring your own gear yeah yeah you guys are talking about a deer dating app yeah yeah something anyway you put some thought into this swipe left swipe right i don't know we'll have to say anyway it's kind of a big quick on the slide josh kind of a big announcement i want to hunt but i don't have a tag that's true exactly part of it's just getting the

kill epic hunting partners.com or what yeah exactly that's what i say epic meets epic encounters i don't oh jeez jeez this is the first i heard of it this is quite a quite an announcement quite a podcast announcement well devon all right what do you what did you take for optics oh i got a leica spotting scopes we're asking spotting scope swarovski 15s leica 10s range finders um leave it to do anything you don't have maybe that'll be shorter list do you have and it's going to be thick timber i probably won't even touch half of it but you never know you never know do you got do you got good tires oh yeah this time i'm ready i'm prepared seem like you had you used about 10 or 20 tire plugs last time you went out well that was a couple months ago i've learned i learned okay i knew it's gonna happen so yeah we're we're prepared but okay and are you gonna be sitting in are you gonna be a blind

hunter you're sitting in a blind or are you it depends gonna be calling yeah i i i i prefer running and gunning but we he basically hasn't been on there at all it's just untouched just letting them be calm and that's all we're gonna check cameras tonight so if there's a big there's one big bull that comes through for about four or five days every year okay and he's a he's a he's a specific bull and if he's hitting water i'll sit there you know twiddle my thumbs but whatever it takes but i'd rather just go to battle you know on the ground so oh yeah whatever it takes do you got enough tags for the year we were teasing bronson that he was complaining he had nothing when he did we he had a few but now he's overloaded we're just wondering how you're doing tag wise well bronson started the year off saying he's batting a thousand and then it quickly went to zero and then and so he was in a

slump and now he's like hitting doubles triples i mean he's oh it's left and right yeah he's he's he's swinging away yeah yeah yeah he's wondering if he's got a family he's wondering if his family's still in cedar if they're on vacation and why he has no idea so anyway but you're doing good i think you got a full fall josh josh is here and i'm here but we have full falls yeah we promise you there's plenty going on our time will come all right guy well sounds good well good luck out there and uh you know keep us keep us updated oh one last thing one last thing you've got it a lot of different elk hunts and a lot and and hunted a lot on your own just you know tons and tons trophy hunters too but let's talk about field judging real quick i mean it's there's one thing to have a gut feel we were talking with adam you know and we went through the time lengths and putting them on paper a

little bit but just give us your thoughts on field judging and what can you what can you teach people oh well i've always i've never been a big just numbers like it just measuring every time or trying to come up with a measurement on every every measurement yeah i feel like that's when you mess it messes with your head and and you know i it's bone to body for me i'll look at a bull and and you got to know where you're at some bulls like northern nevada those bulls bodies are giant compared to ely bulls or some some utah bulls southwest desert bulls compared to pavant bulls they're different but so you got to have that in mind but bone to body all day long and when you see one and it looks cartoonish you know you know what i mean it doesn't all the other little numbers don't matter right so big's big and yeah and the other thing is is look at you know i mean i have i'm first

to tell you i have i didn't hunt elk last year in september at all so i didn't look at a lot of bulls and this year i haven't i've been looking for deer and then these elk hunts just kind of crep up on me so yeah you got to look look at a couple bulls look at you know if you have a lot of time take your time look as many bulls as you can yeah well right on i like it i you know and one thing i like is when they're when their sword or their fourth time you know when the sword looks big and every if everything if the sword is big and everything else looks really good you've got good time length you know for sure and i always i always kind of somebody taught me i don't know who it was but one good rule of thumb for elk is on most mature you know bigger mature bulls the beam at the royal center of the royal at the beam is usually 30 inches that's right so from 30 inches tip of the beam you

can pretty much eyeball that say okay that's going to be 24 22 inches you know he's got a 52 53 inch beam right so that's one other thing that as far as this little knit yeah i'll look at that a lot more so than i heard that from old john mcclendon years and years ago he's one of the first guys to be out there field judging giant bulls and governor tags clear in the 90s and you know he always said big big bulls are 29 to 30 inches right to the royal and then you can double that then you can double that and if you double that you got a freaking you know freaking nature giant beam yeah and then the royal the royal's big you know 24 inches have to be quick you know like when they're coming through the trees head on always get a head on too if you see a bull he's walking away or sideways and you think

he's special special you make sure do everything you can to make him look at you get a front on view because that can change your mind in a hurry right right well good all right sounds good buddy drive drive safe later get back on the road into some city i'm gonna get lost here keep your keep your hands on the wheel 10 and 2 boss 10 and 2 okay and 4 all right see you guys good luck bye no 10 and 2 not 10 and 4 or whatever 9 and 3 i don't know put them just keep them on the wheel i think a beam on elk too is a little bit tricky to judge it's probably one that's missed often because you get it's just like extras on a mule deer or something we kind of get mesmerized with certain things but you can get mesmerized with point length on a bull and he has these big long points but then you get some good good measurement out of a beam a long beam and if his his points are

all smashed up really close to each other he probably doesn't have a very long oh but if he's got even and that's for me a quick way like devon was saying maybe you have a quick you have to make a quick decision on how you know what he is if he's got a lot of length if there's a lot of bone between each point where it comes off of that beam odds are he probably has i mean a good beam if not long but if those points are all i mean if his there's six inches or something between his second and his third he probably doesn't have a terribly long beam and obviously all bulls are different but that's something just as a quick mental thing for me to gauge his distance between each point that's one of the biggest mistakes i have ever seen on guys misjudging bulls yeah as they see this bull and and they just

look amazing they're just stacked they've got long points long points long points but a lot of times they do have a short beam and then you get up on that bull and they're like oh it's only a 330 bull yeah because they misjudged the length of the beam yeah that's right and well the one thing about beams is there's a lot of bulls of 40s yeah you know what i mean and people don't say it or admit it or talk about it but the difference between a good beam and a weak beam on both sides you're talking 20 25 inches yeah and i i like you know if you can let them put their head down too that's kind of a good judge me it almost is obvious to you as soon as they put their head down and if their beams aren't even coming back even as far as their shoulder you'll see that quite often yeah it's just kind of a good

gauge okay maybe you need to take a second look at him yeah i like it well let's call one other guy good friend of mine davy matthews he guides in arizona and new mexico i talked to him early this morning uh i didn't really warn him but i wasn't actually we weren't even going to do a podcast josh chris came to me and he he's chris is a grinder so we're putting one out to keep him quiet but anyway uh you know it reminded me davy says dude they're freaking cranking into mexico so let's just hit him up it's good to see what he has to say i guess we can call this our elk podcast i don't know anyway but uh we'll talk about deer another day on field judging of course we have to talk about deer i mean we should always be talking about deer in fact every podcast should have some information about deer hey it is a good time to talk about elk though yeah but it is september one and so we'll

let one podcast go by without talking about deer except for there's some really nice bucks in some parts of the country right now all right let's talk to davy see what he has to say carter you getting vaccinated or what not not me but well hey buddy i think i think the vaccination is gonna in 10 years down the road people are gonna be walking around kids are only gonna have one eye and people are gonna have brain tumors run around okay okay okay well i hope that's not the case but well i hope not either but you never know you know no it's safer not to get it right because we know that less of that'll happen it's it's a calculated risk this is the calculated risk you calculate the risk of getting coronavirus and dying from it or you knowingly put something into your body that we don't know the long-term

effects of that gives you some of the it gives you some of the the result of the coronavirus like people that get vaccinated kind of don't feel right and maybe you have a little bit of a fever or whatever right exactly i don't have it i don't want it but inject it so i can feel what it's like i don't know i agree no there's there's a lot of people that are getting there's a lot of uh opinions out there but you did mention your wife ended up in the hospital tell me about that real quick before we dive into okay yeah important stuff like hunting so so my wife you know she came down with the came down with the run-up you know from the son's birthday party had a bunch of friends over one of the kids had it while they were there so you guys had a super spreader event yeah we had we had we had one of the super spreader events you know we had the community

the community chicken block club you know with the with the rona but anyways so um she she felt fine you know she's feeling fine the whole time and then um and then you know she starts doing the coughing stuff and we're talking six days in of her testing positive she starts coughing a little bit and then it's kind of gradually gets worse and then it ends up to where she's got um these lung spasms you know and with the lung spasm it's it's making her cough but but her coughing is creating the spasm so it just it's it counter-effects each other and they keep going back and forth and it's and it's hard for her to stop coughing once she starts because of the lung spasm so um so you didn't want to get the rona so you made her drive herself to the hospital but hey well no i don't i don't know i'm just wondering i i told her i would come and take her to the hospital

and she said no oh she would drive i'm i am the guy that's staying in the motel in the in your hometown oh yeah so the people at the motel are going davy you guys exactly you guys having an argument exactly no i guarantee i guarantee you i have buddies calling me and they're like what are you doing you're you're staying at the motel and i'm like yeah they're like what happened nothing that you guys think happened trust me i was like i got i got the rona at my house while i was on an antelope hunt yeah and you got clients and a business to run you don't want to have to deal with that exactly exactly all right well so she's out of the hospital are we doing better she's on the man yeah yeah she's doing better they gave her you know the little uh the little squirters that that people take for uh for asthma and stuff like that oh and and it's not the same

same medicine it's a different medicine but it they i guess the guys at the hospital have seen this um side effect of covid with the the lung spasms so they kind of have it figured out they said in a day and a half she'll be she'll be 90 better so well josh just tell her josh always says that a monster a day keeps the doctor away bro we're we're gonna dip into a whole different battle there because she just she gets so sick of my energy drink drinking uh addictiveness to the energy drinks that it drives her up to crazy what were you drinking weren't you drinking the science one what was the science one uh prosper gloss yeah okay are you still drinking those yeah yeah when i grow them oh come on those those tastes the taste of them are are so good at least it doesn't taste like cough syrup like some of the monster ones that all you guys drink all those just taste like cough

syrup yeah and they're not good for you they're really not they're really not but i just don't understand how anything that makes you feel so good can be so bad i did okay there we that dips it that dips into a whole pile of worms that we'll leave out of this well tell us a little bit about we want to talk elk where it's september 1st i always was taught you were supposed to hunt elk in september and deer in november but um tell us a little bit about how things are progressing there in new mexico i know you do a ton of guiding in new mexico but just you know what have you guys been seeing i mean it feels like feels like things are cranking in nevada um you know of course we're hearing good things about new mexico everybody's trying to ignore arizona just because the drought was so bad earlier but i know it's it's probably a green golf course right now and yeah there'll be some good

bulls taken no matter what but yeah there will be and you know what new mexico we had we had the same drought as we did in arizona i mean it was so dry early but holy smokes has the rain come on as soon as the monsoon hit it is it is a golf course out there and there's water running everywhere and massive amounts of rain i mean all the tanks are trying you know pretty much overflowing and i've had some good bulls texted to me you know trail cam bulls and then yeah the antler growth is fine i don't get it yeah the antler growth yeah literally if you if you sit back and you look at 50 different bulls you might see two or three bulls that you say oh he looks a little droughty the rest of the elk look fine a hundred percent so i expect good things from new mexico i've scouted a lot of really killer elk

um seeing some seeing some really big bulls and and i'm just anxious to get after it you got clients coming in like right yeah yeah we got clients coming in i mean we're we're days away from from our first clients showing up for elk season this year and and we're going to be we're going to be plugging away on on both the archery hunts and the rifle hunts over there so so we're excited we're excited to see what happens here um you know as far as the rut um it it actually seems to be it seems to be uh moving right along you know i i think it might end up being a little earlier this year than the normal years or or you know as far as them getting going you know they're already starting to bugle you know chasing cows and stuff like that looking good yeah man you're looking good and i do see it on on wet years you know seems like on when the monsoon's really good it seems like those bulls get

cranking a little bit earlier so um i think this one's following suit and we're gonna we're gonna see a rut that that we talk about for a couple years you know it's gonna be good i think the rut last year last year it felt non-existent you know it seems like some days it was just some days it felt like you know you know later in the season some days it felt like you couldn't get any better but you wake up the next day and and you go to the same spot and it's dead nothing that's what i almost seem like i feel like on those dry years the cows don't all cycle evenly and it's across the board and so you'll have a rut that goes for a month and a half you know into october even but yeah these wet years it seems like everything's healthy yeah it's healthy and it goes pretty fast and pretty good and

they go pretty hard exactly and i do see the effects of of all the cows kind of cycling at different times last year i mean i was just telling my nephew what we were up messing around chasing some coos deer over the counter in arizona and you know you see in a herd of elk you see a calf elk that's that's just as big as mama you know already the spots are already wore off and then you see one that that literally looks like it hit the ground two and a half weeks ago yeah and it's like holy smokes man that thing is tiny and that's what happened yeah yeah exactly exactly so tell us about what your opinion is on calling versus no calling okay so i always i always think this is my tactic in in calling versus no calling is is um you know i i i tend to be able to call the bulls in a little bit better um or the bigger bulls earlier in the season before the cows are really coming into estrus

um that type of stuff you know um and and i always try and mimic you don't always try and mimic the elk if the elk are bugling and and you hear some cows calling feel free to call a little bit if they're not doing if if the elk are bugling very little don't run around just honking on your bugle and and and calling all over the country because those elk get savvy to it in my opinion so um you know calling calling early season for me is is more productive than than when they're just going crazy bugling i mean if you wanted to call in the satellites and stuff like that which you know most of the time we're not really targeting those type of bulls you could really have good success success with that um you know later in the rep but but we tend to we tend to hunt a little bit more silent you know as the

rep progresses into you know the frenzy stages and stuff like that and try and try and uh get move in front of the elk and have them move by us and kill them that way yeah spot and stalk get in their way yeah let them tell you where they're at if they're not telling you where they're at you might encourage them a little bit with the cow calling yeah yeah exactly exactly so what about optics what do you what do you use in optics wise out there well i've got uh i've i've got the good old trusty swarrows i've got a pair of tins and are those the swarrows that you're saying that are the old trusty ones are those the ones you drug behind a four-wheeler for 14 miles you know those those the ones that don't have any eye cups or come on man hey tell me do your bonos have eye cups on them right now i sent

those bad boys back brand new eye cups on them on them for me you know all right all right four has got a four has got a pretty decent uh customer service program when you're thankfully yeah thankfully thankfully it's not it's not like vortex where i had one of my guys that sent them a pair of 15s in and to to have them go through them and they sent them a brand new pair of 18s back i don't really swarrow maybe swarrow ought to take vortex does have an incredible warranty they take yeah they yeah they do and i'm i'm just i'm just they do but but literally i i've seen your binos and they're they're impressive i'm gonna yeah they're they're good i mean at least they're not cross-eyed at least i don't see cross-eyed that's right right now that's right so you're using 10s the 15s yeah 10s around the neck 15s on the tripod you know and i got i still got the 95 millimeter

uh scope yeah yeah um you know it's all it's all good stuff so okay boss all right sounds good josh you got anything any questions for davy over there no i don't think so not really all right sounds good well i'm looking i'm looking forward to see what you guys end up putting down for yourself this year also and oh yeah good luck guys we're cranking you're cranking it's it's awesome we all live for this time of year so anyway wishing you the best buddy all right bud all right sounds good talk to you later all right see you bye well i hope his wife gets better yeah it's so weird how that thing can affect different people isn't it and you've dealt with a lot like because your wife deals with the hospital yeah administrative side of things i mean you've heard a lot of stories and you know a lot of

different things crazy isn't it yeah yeah i know over there they had every almost every single one of their residents in a long-term care facility and you'd you'd seen a lot of those guys it was just a death sentence you know in the beginning and they all got it and they all survived and made it yeah but they needed help breathing yeah exactly exactly so it's crazy just you never know i guess yeah anyway um lots of good things we've got some hunts out there i mean we've had some deer hunts in canada we've had some you know a moose hunt up there in the yukon we've got a guy that's got some unit 15 muzzleloader tags that are guided we're talking uh you know great opportunity with guaranteed tags um new mexico antelope we've got some colorado plains deer hunts uh rifle elk hunts in colorado new mexico rifle elk hunts there's just quite a bit going on so if you need a hunt or something

give us a holler and uh we'll try to hook you up and give you a few phone numbers and get you started chris i think we should give away an elk tag let's do it speaking of new mexico speaking of new mexico since this is the elk podcast yeah let's give away it's a cow elk it's a cow elk but hey let's hear your best view go ahead go ahead you're not gonna you're not gonna tell me what to do you do it no that sounded pretty sounded pretty close actually yeah it wasn't too bad the no the no sounded pretty close come on all right so anyway cal elk tag unit 6c free tag first come first serve email chris at epic outdoors.com first email to chris we'll get it how about that let's not even do a post okay now now say again where it's at and and any details 6c for cow elk it's a landowner tag it's a thousand dollar tag okay we're gonna give it away you can you know you've got a couple of

hunts to choose from uh october 30th november 3rd november 27th december 1 it's uh a firearms hunt rifle hunt uh unit 6c and you'll have to go on put it into your uh portfolio you'll be able to log in and purchase that you've actually got to purchase the state tag go with it but this basically allows you to circumvent the draw and non-residents can't apply for cow elk they can't apply for cow elk but you can do a landowner tag so this is good for anybody first come first serve email chris at epic outdoors.com i was hoping you're gonna have like a hashtag fill the freezer contest we could loinless contest guaranteed photo of you holding a backstrap on the cover of our december issue josh whatever chris chris you choose that's that's fine that's the email is kind of kind of fun i'm kind of interested to see yeah how many people email that's right but the first

first email that comes through first email takes it first email takes it end of story right very simple and um anyway we're going to give it away and then we also have a couple of archery tags in 6c it's a great unit with great potential a member bought a couple of archery tags for him and a buddy and they can't go and these are bowl tags and they're yeah yeah i mean archery archery any any elk so what the season oh yes the first one is now through 14 that's right the second one's around 16 till the end of 16th 24th yeah so anyway great opportunity um unit 6c archery tags that's no that's normally basically a five thousand dollar tag and uh you know 45 to 5 um make an offer kind of thing so if you want to do you know go on a self-guided hunt you can you can hire an outfitter if you'd like but a

self-guided hunt this would be tag alone of course you'd same kind of thing as the cow tag you'd go in you'd pay the state fee and and you're good to go you bypass the draw uh unit wide tags so you'd hunt anywhere as if you drew the tag within unit 60 all right so just uh kind of a little something something out there for people that are interested in hunting elk uh there are some options and so anyway do need to do shout out it's archery season for elk course generally you hunt uh elk with a bow in september although there are some rut hunts with a rifle like and muzzleloader like here in utah but anyway a little shout out to hoyt we appreciate their support here at epic outdoors uh hoyt archery you can uh go on there of course we're all shooting hoyt um just incredible bows so just a great opportunity adam was

bummed he wasn't going to be able to get to shoot it and look at him now oh he's he's hunting with a vengeance archery left and right yeah so he's got he's got a lot of tags right josh i mean 30 35 okay all right so anyway uh so anyway if you're interested in any of the hoyt products go to hoyt.com we've been super impressed in fact the best bows we actually sold a buddy of ours a bow we get a certain amount of bows uh each year and dude he says by far jason by far so best bow that i've ever shot those are nice i was archery i was really wanting one bad but i decided it wasn't worth a divorce but well you know there's worse things josh yeah that's true i can't think of any right now but anyway josh since you're a huge fan of the fusion take it away yeah uh stealth cam we uh i've been using the new fusion trying out the both the at&t and verizon they have both um what's the

difference nothing i found no i found nothing uh you you pay you don't have to have any kind of sell plan with verizon or at&t you just buy the camera basically go to the area you want to go to and know if it has better service with at&t or verizon some of them it's apples to apples i guess but i know there are some areas that just verizon hits better or at&t so you'll want to maybe make sure before that but they're great i've i've enjoyed using them um it's pretty handy you know i've got some quite a ways back in that i can't check and would have only been able to check once or twice but now i get a hourly text anytime something comes by you can set them up and whether it'll send you one every time it takes a picture or twice a day once a day or hourly that's how i have mine set up now and everything that happens in that hour it lumps them all together and kicks it off to you

so they're great i've used stealth cams probably probably my favorite cameras out of any of them that i've ever owned since i've started on them on stealth cam so pretty popular around here yeah we've got we've got a few left call us up we've even got some boxes there is one thing if you want to get the fusion camera i would say consider getting a box i uh ran into one on the mountain the other day and the elk had chewed on it raked on it something you know how they're always messing with your cameras anyway the antenna was laying on the ground somebody else's camera wasn't mine but i definitely if you want to protect them a little bit get them one the box goes up over the not only protects them from people but protects them from yeah because elk all the time so anyway so on the on the fusions i know a lot of people are intimidated by the setup process and the phone

plans and all this so and i know uh years ago it was a difficult i tried to set one up from a different brand at one point yeah and i was like this is just it's garbage too much there's layers and layers of things you have to set up so how hard is it to set up it was it was easy the only thing i would recommend is doing it at home before you get out in the field just to make sure you have your account all set up the cool thing about it is you get the first 30 days are free so you get an unlimited amount of pictures sent to you for the first 30 days so set it up when you get it home or you know well while you're in good service at least anyway before you put it on the mountain but it's all just done through your phone you literally turn the button to on it has some lights that flash that shows you that it's in service it'll actually take a couple pictures

and send them to you immediately so you can even check and see if your setup looks right um but yeah it's it's easy to set up you can actually set it up i can go in now if i want to and say i can change it on the fly right now whether i want to only come once a day if you're getting too many pictures or not enough pictures or whatever and say i want to get it immediately i can go on my app right now hit it immediately it does wait till the next time frame if you already have it set up on the next hour on the next hour when that transmit time comes up it'll change those settings any setting that you can throw video picture whatever i mean if that bull in there right now with those cows i was talking about earlier if i wanted to say i want some video of him i can switch it to video the next hour when it transmits photos i'll start getting videos and switch it from video

from your phone from the app yeah it's an app it's actually easier to set up that fusion than a regular cell camera or just regular trail camera using the buttons and the menu and all that kind of stuff it's they're pretty handy they're cool pretty awesome anybody interested go to stealthcam.com of course you can call us we sell them give us a hauler uh 435-263-0777 we are slowing down our inventory a little bit it's right in the middle of hunting season there's people that have bought them or interested in buying have generally purchased them by now having said that we do have some at&t ones in stock and we can order anything and we also have regular stealth cams just the regular non-transmitting cameras so anyway also want to uh shout out to red rock red rock precision uh redrock precision.com super good guys producing some of the finest rifles made in the united states

we appreciate them and their support super good people uh producing a great product one of the best products i i love my red rock ashley loves my red rock janna loves my red rock everybody wants one and only one guy gets one that's me so anyway appreciate them and their support go check them out they've got a lot of different options and very customized um you know a lot of these gun guys like you know this is my kind of my cookie cutter way and uh these guys will do whatever you want calibers stocks barrels um they work with you so pretty awesome that's probably gonna get a workout later this year it's gonna get a workout the kids are gonna work it out anyway not sure it'll be worked out like some people work their guns yeah there's sometimes there's a pile of brass there this one's pretty accurate anyway um take it away well speaking of also field judging oftentimes sometimes

maybe you only get a glimpse of something pretty quick and we talked about it if it doesn't if you didn't get it on film it didn't happen sort of thing um go to uh phonescope.com and get a phone scope from cheston and those guys over there they uh have a great product goes on and off your phone they customize it to the phone you have anything you need like that they can help you out they can have them for gopros phones all kinds of stuff you know it's not just for phones but get something world class email it to me how do you feel it's true jason at epic outdoors.com locations they've actually they've actually modified the design of the phone scope in the last year or two um so if you have an old one they didn't have the rubber pieces on the corners yeah so now it's it's a little better you can get a little bit higher quality uh more stable footage yeah is that what

it is i always thought it was to protect it when i drop it because i drop it once a day it has a dual purpose yeah but so it'll protect it when you drop it it's got a little sticky thing like this thing is a gripper on the back and when you put it on a table or something it grips like i i keep this phone scope case on all the time of course cheston he's no dummy it says phone scope on it everywhere i go everywhere you go everywhere all our friends go yeah and uh you know lots of advertising there and and he's smart by doing it because actually this is a pretty bad case they weigh and they weigh nothing i mean you don't it doesn't have anything to weigh to throw in your pack or whatever and it's just great i mean video and kill shots or just pre-scouting video something like that if you need to take video back and judge it back at camp later and doubles as a phone case yeah exactly

you can check it out phonescope.com p-h-o-n-e-s-k-o-p-e.com of course they also do pyro putty uh which basically saved darren bronson's life and anybody else out there that used it it's uh pretty awesome go to www.pyroputty.com p-y-r-o-p-u-t-t-y.com check it out it's very affordable of course we got a little surprise coming at you um maybe even some epic you know private labeling going on with these guys super good people and a product we uh believe in so anyway go to pyroputty.com all right guys do we got anything else this was very impromptu chris short notice chris comes to me and says hey we need to do a podcast and i give him that deer in the headlight look like leave me alone i was doing fine today but anyway it turned out to be awesome i think there's a lot of good stuff in this podcast yeah any app suggestions or

anything i need to add to that yeah hit josh at epic outdoors.com for any dating app any dating app suggestions the last we're right in the programming phase i just found out about it just barely yeah yeah sure enough we've got a project going on you thought i wasn't doing anything over my office i'm slightly concerned but hey this may be the biggest money maker yet uh who knows you always say look for next 500 idea yeah that's right 500 ideas you come up with something that makes real money we'll give you 500 so anyway hey let's throw that out to everybody else out there in the world um but anyway kind of kind of funny i don't know this one this one's kind of a this one appears to be a hit i think it's gonna i think there's something to it so all right everybody good luck out there make sure you send your photos where they're starting to come in send them to

photos p-h-o-t-o-s at epic outdoors.com if you can of course take pictures with your cell phone everybody does it but if you've got a point and shoot camera we did have a point and shoot you know camera article john did uh an issue or two ago and i actually read it and went and bought a camera so anyway they they do take a little better cameras than your phone does but hey we all have a phone and it's got a wazoo camera on it so worst case scenario use your phone send them in photos at epic outdoors.com good luck you