EP 262: HUGE announcement from Fierce Rifles with John Mogle!

Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour.

Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, the entire Epic Outdoors crew. We got Devin, Josh, Wyatt, Logan, and we got a special guest, John Mogul. Hey buddy, how are you? Good, how are you guys doing? Well, we're doing good. We've just been cranking in the office. Well, that's good. I guess you're making money, but it'd be better if you were out shooting stuff, wouldn't it? Oh yeah.

Yeah, yeah. The office is, when you're done with the hunting season, you kind of want to look forward to the office. And about three days into it. About a week of sleeping in your own bed, and then you're thinking about where you would rather be. Hunting, killing. You know what steps we get from the parking lot to the door here? Yeah. And we're counting every one of them? We were at lunch today, and we had to like peel him away from the window, because he's like, the sun feels so good. Because you get here when it's dark. You leave when it's dark. We don't see the sun all day. We had to peel him out of the window at Costa Vida. That's pretty good, huh? Yeah.

These short days are not good, are they? No. No. They're not good, and your stepper counts. I'm sure a few of you are doing that. They're not good right now. In fact, it's the shortest day of the year today, I think. Is it? Really? It's only lighter from here on out. That's the good news. That's awesome. A minute and a half a day or two. And then when is it the lightest? Not quick enough. July 20th. June 21st. There you go.

There's your moon phase guy right there. He tells you the best days to hunt, doesn't he? That seems.

I don't know. He's a little bit of everything. Whatever you need to know, I can tell you.

There was a buck that died in Nevada last year with a crescent moon setting and a pretty sunset. Wasn't there, Josh? Yeah. What was it? Elaborate. Misty Fjords and stuff. Oh, that was 2021. That was two years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Misty Fjords buck. It's pretty awesome. Well, all right. Since we're talking about killing stuff, John, you're here for one reason. We're going to have to talk rifles. Okay. You guys make some of the finest rifles out there. I don't know. Maybe give it a slight history, whatever it is. Set the stage for what makes you guys awesome there at Fierce. Great. Thank you. The thing that sets us apart at Fierce is we built a custom grade rifle at a production rifle price. That's really what it is. I feel, well, I know our guns are built as good as some of the other brands that are $6,000, $7,000, but we sell them at a great price.

We've got a new rifle here that we'll talk about here later, but we have guns starting just over $2,000. Going up to our most expensive gun now is $3,500, $3,600 in our carbon barrel titanium action. But our tolerances on our actions are as tight as anyone's. All the carbon components we build in-house, the barrel with the C3 carbon barrel. I mean, when you look at what we offer the consumer, we give a half MOA accuracy guarantee, which is really as good as it gets in the industry. Very few people do that, and we stand behind it. We do stand behind it. Some people say they do it. Yeah. But maybe don't do it fully. I mean, you guys stand behind every gun. We do, and it's been extremely hard, as you can imagine, during these COVID years with the ammo availability because we are not in the reloading business right now because you can't get components.

So we're doing it with factory ammo for the most part, which is really unheard of. But luckily, there's a lot of great factory ammos came a long way as well. And so when you put that with a good rifle, we feel confident about it. And not to say, you know, we don't re-barrel a few guns or do whatever, but to get that to where they need to be. But we stand behind it, and so that's what we're proud of. And once again, for the price and the customer service and the product that the consumer gets, I think that's why we're doing so well. So, man, that's incredible. I know these guys have killed a lot of animals with your rifles. Devin, Wyatt, Bronson, I mean, everybody's, you know, been laying stuff down with your rifles. Yeah, I've had one for, what, the first year you started? Yeah. We were just talking about it, serial number 95. 95, so way early years there. You got one of the OGs, bud.

OGs, yeah. It's killed a handful of stuff and been all over with me, so it's pretty good. I tried to buy it from him for years. He wouldn't sell it to me. Which caliber was that original? Just the 7mm Remington. Good old 7 mag. Yeah. And it shoots everything. Anything you feed it, it doesn't matter. It'll do that half-inch MOA with anything I've shot out of it, so. And so what did you shoot? Hey, don't tell people that. They'll all think it can do it. What did you shoot your buck with this year? Actually, the new 6.5 PRC. Yeah. The new one you got. Yep, so. Sweet. So you'd think that, you know, Wyatt's a creature of habit. And so to make a change like that, it's pretty. You can find him in the water hole? Well, yeah. He's killable. You don't even know what that means. At 9.33, Wyatt would be there. Water only. That's true. He doesn't hit the buck jam. You can pattern Wyatt.

Buck jam, get your kidney stones. Just a walk.

Are we going to go down that road? What did cause the kidney stones, Wyatt? Did they ever break them down? If you go back, probably 10 other podcasts, we brought that up on it. Well, we heard the tank and stuff like that. But I mean, what developed? You're the only pure water drinker in the bunch. We thought it was creatine, remember? Oh. That's right. Jeez, that's a lot of podcasts to go. You're not drinking enough Diet Pepsi, Wyatt. That's probably what it is. Monsters and Diet Coats. Quit the hard stuff.

That's all we drink and we have no problems. I'm just saying. No monsters here. All right. What model was that, your 6.5 PRC? That's a... It's the new... No, it is the Edge. The CT Edge. The CT Edge. Oh, yeah. So that's both my guns are both the CT Edge. Fantastic. We made a run out to the range with Wyatt and it was unbelievable. We smashed that 840-yard target like nothing. Just quick, too. Yeah, yeah. Like it was 100 yards. Were you doing reloads? That was factory Hornady ELDXs. After you scooped some up, about from under my nose. Yeah. About six, eight boxes of that. Yeah, six or eight months ago when they were hard to find. Yeah. That's another thing we offer our customer that is unique to us. For you that have been up to my shop, we built that kind of in the middle of nowhere so we can have that one mile range right. Really, we can shoot from inside.

But we do our shooting schools out back. But, you know, that's the business we're in. We have... We found some great niches. You know, the Cabela's of the world, the big box stores to the mom and pop dealers sell our rifles. But also, we make long range packages, kind of a turnkey system for the guys. Because, I mean, your customers especially, the guys listening to this podcast, time's limited, right? And that's why they use you and your services. And that's why they use us on our long range packages. You go into a sporting goods store, you buy a gun, then you have to worry about buying a scope. And you have to worry about mounting the scope. Right. And then you have to figure out how to do this long range shooting stuff. So then you put your scope on, then you got to get a buddy or two to come out and spot and see if you can even figure out the long range deal.

And so for us, in-house, we'll get them the scope. We cut turrets on a variety of different scopes. We truly can give them a long range system. When they get it and pull it out of the box, it's ready to go. And a lot of guys don't recommend doing this. A lot of guys get it and head out right out on a hunt and start shooting five, six, 700 yards. You know, we'd like to see them go practice. When I buy a car, I want to be able to drive it right off the line. That's what people are just grabbing a gun and going, hitting the field. And like you said, you need to be familiar with your gun. Like you do a test lap. At least a test lap. Yeah. You shoot five rounds at the range or something. Ten. Like Wyatt did. And then he goes and smashes a great buck. Yeah. You don't know where they're shooting. Well, it saves people time and money.

I mean, I remember people, if there was an accuracy problem, it was always rings and basis. Yeah. Wrong rings, wrong screws, something not torqued. That they'd put on themselves, right? And then they go on a $20,000 out cut and that doesn't go so well. Yeah. So we're not talking about the Fierce package. We're talking about them buying a gun. Raw gun. Correct. And putting it on. Putting it on. Yes. Yeah. A lot of the, you know, as you imagine with that accuracy guarantee we talked about, a lot of the guys will send in guns and say it doesn't shoot. And just like Devin said, because Devin used to work at Fierce. So he knows. He knows well. I feel good for those calls. You know, the first thing you do is check if everything's tight and if they mounted it right. And I would say seven out of ten times stuff's not put on correctly or torque to the right specs.

Oh, it might have been eight or nine out of ten. Probably. You know what I mean. Yeah. But 70% is pretty bad. Yeah. I'm just saying. Yeah. So that's a great service, you know, and in today's world, service is what I think our customer is your customer. And I think those people want service. Yeah. Right. They want, they want, time is precious in this world today and we don't have enough of it. And so if you can get the package rate or roll, saves them time. And with the availability of ammo being so scarce, that's another problem, you know, you have in trying to set up your own rifle and get everything dialed in. So we can help them solve their problems in a lot of ways. Yeah. So. When you said cut, cut turrets, like some guys want to cut, want them cut to a specific elevation, whatever yardage. You're cutting a yardage turret. We're cutting a yardage turret. Yes.

Versus an M.I. shooter that you don't have to do that. Yeah. But that's their motive. You know, a lot of first timers, though, they don't think that way. A lot of people like the cut turret, which, you know, elevation doesn't, isn't huge unless you've got huge differences in elevation. Yeah. And it's interesting with your experience, right? I mean, your experienced long range shooters, I feel, want the MOA turret and maybe have the ballistic binos that are programmed. They have, they're savvy enough to program that and stuff. But still, nine out of ten packages that we send out have the yardage turret. Oh, no kidding. And so what we do is that, you know, we'll find, first off, whenever someone buys a package and people don't realize this value, even though we guarantee the half MOA accuracy guarantee, there's only one gun that comes out of our shop with a certified target now.

And that's the CT Rage or the Edge. The Rage is now taking the place of the Edge. The Edge used to be made in Canada. Now everything's made in our shop in Utah. And we've changed the name to the CT Rage just to differentiate. But that's the only gun. If they buy just a bare gun, it comes with a certified target. Everything does not. And so when they do the package, we certify it for them. We're going to find what ammo shoots the half MOA first. So accuracy is number one when they order a package. So we'll find the half MOA accuracy. Could be, for example, the new 7 PRC. We'll shoot the 175 ELDXs or the 180 matches. It's the only two ammo available. So far, either one of those is a bit in half, no problem. And then, so then you solve that problem. And then we chronograph it. So we find out how fast that exact bullet's going through their gun.

So they're getting an exact speed, not just a guess. And then we go and we find out from the consumer, you know, what average elevation they're hunting at and temperature to try and get that a little more dialed in. And then we cut the turrets on a laser machine. And then we'll re-dial. And then after we do that, we put the turret on. And then if the customer wants it zeroed at 100 or 200 yards, we'll zero it. And then we verify the cuts, right? So we'll take it out to 500 yards, 700 yards. So it's just a simple turret. It'll have 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. So those are your yards. Crank it to 7 and anything up between, it's dead on. You're on at 7 and you're on at 0. You're there. So we'll take it to 1,000. And that's the process. So when the guy gets it, and my guys are awesome. They are into this more than anyone I know. And they will not let a gun go out that's not good. They just won't.

And, you know, there's really not any cut in corners. Sometimes I have to fight with them a little bit because it's like, come on, this one's close enough. No, it's not. You know? And so my guys are awesome. And so when a consumer gets their gun, they can be confident, you know, that it's 1,000 yards ready to go, whatever. And everyone wants to go, it seems like, at least to 1,000 yards nowadays. And the scopes and equipment has changed to do that in our industry. I know. I was pretty shocked when we went up there for those that day and just the shop and, I mean, just the handmade, custom. I was pretty blown away, honestly. Yeah. The detail and the work and, yeah. Anyway, I was just pretty impressed. Awesome. Thank you. With a, you know, production-type rifle, but you say, but it was custom. I mean, it's a custom rifle. Well, how many stock, I mean, you've got different stocks and colors.

Well, and here's the thing, too. You bring up stocks, and I hate to get too techie, but that's why I'm here, I guess, or you wouldn't have me on your podcast because I can't talk hunting as good as you guys. But our stock is as high-end as they come. So if you take this barreled action out of the stock, most composite stocks, what they do is they're going to do this flat, a flat top, per se. So it's going to have the carbon look here, but the top will be a flat top. And they will go in and then cut into, they'll foam fill this whole area. And let's say they want their stock, they're building the gun for a short-action steel barrel. So then the CNC will go in and cut this area for the action to sit in. It will cut the barrel channel to either a steel barrel, carbon barrel. So we make molds for each one.

So as you pull this barreled action out, instead of seeing foam, you see actual carbon fiber. That's why there is no give in our stocks. They're as strong as they get because, yes, it is foam filled, but it's fully encased by carbon fiber. So the strength is all around that foam and it's encased and it's the strongest stock on the market. So once again, we're selling it at a great value to the consumer. Once again, when people ask, you have to compare this to a 6,000, 7,000, and without mentioning companies' names, most of you know who they are. But honestly, in the tolerances and the actions, exact same. The way our stock's built, better. The way our barrel's wound, we do our own C3 carbon barrel technology, the best. So it's good stuff. Maybe talk about that just a little bit for, you know, basics of steel barrel versus carbon.

I'm sure guys that are naive to that, that's one of the initial questions they ask you. Like, why should I go carbon other than aesthetics or whatever else looks cool? What do you talk them through? How do you do that? Well, we offer both, right? We offer a twisted barrel. It is funny, though. Nine out of ten sales are carbon guns. No kidding. The market is just shifted completely. When did you see that shift? It's always been strong, but it's almost that bad now. I mean, to sell a steel barrel. I'm the one in ten guy. I need a carbon barrel. You're an outlier, dude. But here's the thing, Jason. Might be half my problem. The steel barrels shoot as good as the carbon barrels. Well, and I don't know why. I just, when I, I just, they don't look as sexy to me as a steel barrel. Like, I don't know why. It's just what I grew up with, right? I don't know why. Like that more traditional look.

But you're carrying half a pound more. Yeah. Well, yeah. So, the advantages is a carbon barrel. Obviously, carbon fiber, when you say, when you do comparisons per weight, right? So, it's five times lighter than steel. It's five times stiffer. It's four times stronger. All those technical things. But the biggest thing, it has what's called a zero coefficient of thermal expansion, meaning it doesn't expand. Steel can grow, right? It can actually grow. Back in my earlier days of making carbon barrels. When we didn't kind of lock it in with the carbon fiber lock here, back in the day, when you got them hot enough, you could see the barrel grow and protrude and come away from the carbon. It's just, you know, it's just steel grows. Carbon does not. So, as your barrel heats up, it maintains its stiffness.

So, with that, you know, you can argue you get more first shot accuracy, cold bore accuracy with a carbon barrel. Because it's not affected if you're outside today in 10-degree weather. You know, your barrel's shrinking. That cold bore barrel can be a little further off than a carbon barrel. And then in the heat, at the same time. Or if you're one of those guys that takes 10 or 12 rounds to kill something, right? You have less variability. Yep. Who are we talking about? I'm just saying those guys. I didn't look at any of them. Happens to all of us. Just Mr. Bold Jangles, that pile of brass, you know. Melting snow right next to you. Melting snow. That's right. From shot 1 to 12, they're all more, you know, precise. These have a steel barrel, right? It's lined inside. Like, you've got a very thin steel. So, how are you getting it not to protrude? How are you getting it?

We do some mechanical locks. Do some bumps in the steel. So, as you lay the carbon and it's cooked and cured around there, it has some locks. Okay. So, it doesn't just move. Can't move. It overpowers it. Yeah. And steel, you know, doesn't cause it. You've got to do it in the right way so it doesn't. Sometimes you can do that and it really foobar stuff because you're just introducing more stress. That's the way you bond it. Similar to a bonded bullet. Not all bonded bullets are created equal. You know what I mean? So, it's how you bond that carbon to the steel liner, let's call it. But it's amazing, you know, as you guys probably go to SHOT showing different things. As you walk the floor this year, you're going to see, you already have almost every manufacturer now has a, you know, the weather bees. Remington's not really around much anymore.

But, you know, most manufacturers, they have Savage, the, you know, every Bagara, everyone's got a carbon barrel now. So, in my history, it used to kind of, we were kind of the outliners with the carbon barrels. But now it's, like I said, just become the norm. And whether they're sexy or saves you a little weight. But they're cool. Oh, yeah. What about picking calibers and stuff for guys? I mean, how do you talk that through with people? Because, I mean, there's the full gamut. And then, obviously, you make, I haven't had them up, six or eight different guns, you know, packages. You know, whether it be, you know, steel and carbon and titanium and not. And, obviously, long action and short action. But how do you, that's another thing, like what's hot, I guess, maybe that kind of tells. And there's, you know, every year is another something else we're dealing with.

But how do you, how do you walk that through with somebody? Because some people want to come out west and get a gun that's, you know, I want a western gun. I'm a, I shoot three or eights for whitetails out here and I don't want to bring that. Where do you start with them? Yeah, I mean, first off, just like you guys with the customer, you know, putting them in for hunts and things. You have to qualify them what they're hunting, right? And see what, you know, a lot of guys will, oh, I only hunt small game antelope and coyotes and so. So, you know, for us, just to tell you what's hot is the PRCs are hot. The 6.5 has just dominated the last probably two years by a long shot. It's pretty much killed the Creedmoor. Yeah. Our Creedmoor sales are gone small. Yeah. Very small where they were way up there.

So, the 6.5 PRC, I think Hornady kind of, I don't know, I mean that Creedmoors, there's so many rifles out there. They're going to sell a ton of ammo, but both are their calibers. So, the PRC is just, you know, a couple hundred feet per second faster. And it's a phenomenal cartridge for midsize game. I know that a lot of people shoot elk and stuff with them. My son likes to shoot elk with them. But for me, it's a little small for elk, but it's fantastic to shoot off the bench just because as we get older, you know, I'm not as tough as I used to be. The recoil, no recoil's awesome. I don't want a mouthful. Don't tell your kids that. Yeah, don't tell your kids. I know, yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. Don't show weakness. Don't show weakness in front of themselves. My kids haven't taken me up on an arm wrestle yet. I fear the day they do, but for heck's sakes, I'm not going to lose.

I don't think so. There's old man strength. Yeah. There is such a thing. Where does that kick in at? Mass wins. Is that what you're saying? That's right. It might have to. There's a little 145, 50 pounders. 35, yeah. Ain't no 135 going to slap my arm on the table. Oh, yeah. That'll do it. Yeah, we don't want to show any weakness. So the 6.5 PRCs has been by far the number one. Then it was the 300 PRC. That's a great cartridge. They once again designed that for long range with that .212 and .225. It's got high BC. And now just because of what's out there and what's being pushed, everyone's into high BC, long range. Whether they're going to shoot long range or not, it seems like most of them want that. And then probably third, 300 Win Mag and then the 28 Nosler. But as you guys know now, by far dominating our sales in the last, since Hornady announced it in October, was the 7 PRC.

I mean, it's just crazy. You know, we have a gun builder on our website now where a customer can go in and build their gun and they can place their 500 deposit order and the order comes through. And so on my phone, just, I mean, there's four or five a night. Bing, bing, bing, bing. And 7 PRC, 7 PRC, 7 PRC, just dominating. And that's a great cartridge. I took it to Africa, shot an elk. I think it's on our YouTube channel. Got a lot of heat for it on there as well. But shot an elk at 1,023 yards out of the Muscular. Two, you shouldn't be shooting that far. I was like, hmm. Okay. It shouldn't be, but. That was an ethical kill. That was no problem. One shot kill, yeah. New Mexico, you said? Yeah, the Muscular shot a bull down there. Matter of fact, Hornady told me he was the first guy to shoot a bull with 7 PRC. So that's cool. Pretty cool. And a leopard.

Took it to Namibia and shot my leopard with it. But we've been really impressed with that cartridge. And if you look up the ballistics, I mean, you're shooting a 175 and the 180 is about the same. With a 24-inch barrel, you're getting about 3,000 feet per second in speed. And it's giving you tons of energy. If you look at 1,000 yards, your energy and your feet per second and all that stuff, it's above what most people teach is the ethical threshold for killing animals in that far. Once again, I'm not advocating shooting stuff at 1,000 yards by any means. Put pounds of energy in all those arguments. Yeah. But with the BC, it's probably holding, it's, you know, giving you maybe even more foot pounds of energy at 1,000 than a 300 rum even maybe? It is. Yeah. Yeah. Because the rum would give you another. Have to pull out my ballistic calculator when we start. Well, good. Serious.

Geez, we get tactical. He's prepared. I don't know. Well, I wasn't. Have to get by. Well, and maybe even, yeah, compare it to like the 28 or the regular seven because those are what it kind of is filling this void of. For the people that know me, I'm a 300 rum guy. So, for example, a 300 rum with a 180, you can write this down. Mine's almost 3,300 feet per second. At 1,000 yards, I'm getting 1,300, just over 1,300 foot pounds of energy and my speed's 1,810. So, let's look at my 7 PRC and see where it compares to the rum.

Got my data here. So, we'll look at it with the 175.

And we're getting at 1,000 yards. Speed, I'm getting 1,942. Yeah, you're another 100 and something. And 1,465. Yeah, you're 100 foot pounds more, 100 and something. 100 foot per second. I know another 300 rum guy sitting around here. I don't care what those numbers say. That 300 rum smokes. It what? It smokes. It barks and bites, huh? No, Bronson, you've got a problem with the barking and biting. I think it's off that, what did you have? You had a browning chambered in the 300 rum and it does. No, it's fine. It does hammer you. I just don't hunt. I mostly hunt elk with a bow. And that leads to your question earlier about what do you hunt the most. Occasionally, one of my kids will hunt. My boy shot one of the 300 rum a year ago. But I mostly hunt elk with a bow. So, unless I hunt a moose, which I've already done, I don't hunt with a big gun much. So, I mean, that 6'5 is my little baby.

Those 6'5s are fun to shoot. I mean, you can see the animal die in your scope most of the time. Isn't that awesome? Yeah. Or you can see your point of impact. And you just chamber and you watch it. You don't watch it die in the 300 rum. It's like, I've got to find it again. I mean, I like that. The older I get, I don't like to put a mouth guard in before I pull the trigger on anything anymore. And that's why we teach in our long range schools. Because if you can stay in and follow through, if you have follow through, who's the best spotter? Yeah. You. And if you can see where your bullet's hitting, you can make a follow up shot. It's like, I mean, over half at least, it feels like I'm by myself. And so, and that's a big deal. If you can see your point of impact and it hits right over the back, you know, okay, I was a little bit off.

I just, you know, aim low or don't even die when I kill it the second shot. 300 rum, you're picking your stuff up and you're coming back in your scope. Yeah. And you're like, you're cranking your power back down and all that because you've got to find it. And you just put it in the same spot and shoot again and miss and hit in the same spot. We know the story. I usually put it back on and they're rolling down the hill. The only problem, Jason, I've never missed with my 300 rum. No, that's the thing. And I don't miss with a little one either, but I like shooting and I like packing them. Shorter 22, maybe 24 barrels, short action. It's true. They're all light and little. I call them my little kid guns. And they, but they kill. And I mainly hunt sheep and deer and antelope stuff. You know, I don't. Which I think most of us do. I haven't shot enough with it yet.

And I wouldn't, I mean, I would, not like I think it's unethical, but I've got a bigger gun if I hunt elk and drive. Yeah. 300 rum. Man, that's seven. I mean, that's impressive. Yeah. It is impressive. And that's why. That's catching people's attention right now. What are you getting? I mean, it's going to have some feedback too. Even, well, at 3,000 foot, you're not going to. It's going to be cleaned out. Well, compared to, oh, of course. 3,000 at the nozzle, it's going to be pretty chill. Foot pounds of energy, compared to like a 28 nozzle, significantly less. I can't remember the number. I'm not prepared on that. Yeah. Yeah. Felt recoils about like a 7 mag. Regular 7 mag. With the PRC, the new one? Yeah. Just similar. The new 7 PRC. Wow. Yeah. Are you shooting suppressed yet, Wyatt? No, not shooting suppressed. That'll change your life. Have your brakes on there.

What do you, and I always say accuracy trumps like all these numbers, if you can't shoot accurate, it doesn't matter. So you've got to be comfortable. And like, that's what I've always thought with those suppressed suppressors. If that helps you and recoil and just comfort, like. Just feels a little clumsy when you got it out. Like for me, you know. And that's the trend you're seeing now, guys, is short barrels. Yeah. Everyone's going, and you'll see in our model lineup, it's, you know, even in the 7 PRC, we're building them as short on our new Mountain Reaper, the folding gun. They're 20 inches, which is a little bit. But everyone's wanting to suppress them now. And it's, you know, I jokingly say when we first started, hey, can you hear, can you hear? It's like, none of us can hear. We're all shooters, right? But that's part of it, that suppression, not having that big bang.

And I think it makes, like you said, people more comfortable. You're seeing, we're seeing a lot of ladies and kids really getting behind the gun. They're not back here scared of it because of the boom, right? Yep. So, no, it's been, it's been cool. We're all shooting suppressed now. And it's, it's pretty sweet. My 6.5 PRC, I went 22 inches just because I have a titanium dead air Nomad titanium suppressor on there. And it's, it's still pretty compact. Wow. What about the 20 inch barrel? And the accuracy is great. Speed's great. Like there's no, what's your, what's your. Speed. So we're seeing, you know, and that used to be a little bit of a myth. Guys would say, like back in the day, longer. It's so weird, right? It's so, this industry is so weird because once again, you, everything was about speed. You remember Lazaronis and, you know, who can get to 4,000 feet per second?

And it was all about speed kills and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And now we're going like the other way. Now it's about big, heavy bullets, accuracy, ballistic coefficient. And now when you start looking at that stuff, at long range, the slower bullets outperform these, the speed demons, you know, when you look at them on the ballistic calculators and all that. If you got a good BC, yeah. You know, and now, and same thing with that 26, 28, I remember building 28 inch barrels for guys. And now it's just going the opposite direction. And, and, and back in those days, guys, you say, you know, a hundred feet per second per inch. Well, that's not true. It's more like we're seeing about 25. I remember that. I remember people saying that. You remember that? Yeah. That's why I have a 26 inch barrel. One of my old guns. So we got Ammon and the boys with our little, let's saw it off next week.

Bring it, bring it in. I don't know if that'd work too good on a, yeah. Well, chronographing them and stuff, but we're seeing 25 to 30. Interesting. Depending on the caliber per inch. So, I mean, you go from a 24, which a lot of the calibers are tested at 24 inches, drop down to 20, you might be a hundred to 150, which is not that much. Feet per second slower. Not that much. And so it's, it's interesting, but that's the trend now. It seems to be shorter and guys are suppressing them and man, it makes them nice and easy to pack around, right? It's almost like becoming scout rifles. Yeah. But still maintaining the same accuracy throughout all those. Yep. Yep. Accuracy has not diminished. You, you're going to hit a point of, you're just blowing out too much powder and the accuracy is gone. So there's definitely, you can go too short for sure. Mm-hmm. But yeah, the accuracy has been good.

And that's why the barrel lengths we offer, we still stand behind that accuracy guarantee. So that's pretty bold. Hmm. Dang, that's a lot to think about. Should we talk about this new, new little lady sitting on the table here? Yeah. Let's do it. So tell us what you've got coming out for 2023. Okay. You got it. Still in 2022. Yeah. We're, you guys are going to have the, the first sneak peek to your customers here of the new rifle for 2023. 2023. One of our, well, our highest selling rifle is the Rival. And the Rival's been fantastic. It was, it's a two lug action. The Rival is a two lug action. And instead of like a Rage is a three lug action, more like a Socko 85 type, the Rival is a two lug, more like a Remington 700, but with the short 70 degree bolt throw. Before we start doing all that, let's check, make sure there's no bullets. So no one gets scared here. We've already checked.

The gun is safe. We had it pointed at Logan the whole time and we, but we, we checked. Multiple times. I'm just the intern. It's all right. So, so the Rove. Intern live matter.

They do.

And the Rival, so the Rival was an awesome, awesome gun. And so for those of you that have the Rival, it's got the drop down, the more, not tactical, long range shooting stock. It has the big drop down, the big palm swell. Kind of a vertical grip. You got a vertical pistol grip system. Honestly, the longer, younger guys love the Rival. You know, if you looked at the age group of the Rival, it's the younger crowd, right? 45 and older. Like me. I don't like it. 45 and older. I'm the same. I don't like the feel in my hand. I just don't. Exactly. I know it's ergonomically how you're supposed to line up a shoot. It just doesn't feel like the guns we ever shot. Yeah. That's right. I don't like the feel. And that's why our Rage was always the seller. The three lug action gun was such a seller for us for the 40, 45 year old and older because of the traditional stock. Smaller pistol grip.

And so the Rogue is now that we've heard the cries of our customer. We've heard the Adam Bronsons of the world that did not like that pistol grip. Yeah. And so the Rogue is the new stock is more of a, like when Devin first felt it, it's kind of a hybrid. So it's got the skinnier palm swell for more of that traditional feel. So the older guys that come in and are just used to gripping their rifle like this, right?

Oh, anyway. Sounded like it went off or something.

Kaboom. Smack. So, I mean, it's funny at the trade shows because you can tell, you know, the older guys come in and grab the gun like this. They wrap that thumb around there and we're like choking it to death, right? Well, they might have. They're going to use it in the military too back in the day. Doubled as a shovel handle. And then you get the younger guys that come in and may are into the long range shooting and you see them put their hand there and put their thumb over and all that stuff. So that, so this one, you can do both. You can choke it or you can, it has a nice, what do you call it? The shelf here to put your thumb on, thumb shelf. So if you want to shoot it more in a, you know, long range shooting style or you want to go more traditional, it feels great. Just call it proper versus not proper. Well, I feel like when you're shooting prone, that's what, that's what I do.

I feel like I would use that more. But when you're like offhanded something, you know what I'm saying? It offers both, both ways. And what's also cool about this is you can slide your hand up and down the grip area and get it to fit you. Meaning a lot of those vertical pistol grips, you put your hand in there and it's kind of, there's the spot, right? This one, so like I was telling you guys earlier, for the guys with big fat hands that come in and like, ah, I can't reach the trigger. We'll just slide on up a little, slide up the grip a little and you're going to get to where you need to be. You know, you can hold back here if you're a big tall guy with long fingers or if you need to crawl up a little more, it still feels great. So, so that's why this is an awesome gun. And, and the, the great thing about this gun is the price. So it's coming in super light.

Um, we've changed up a few things to get them a little lighter weight like the car. So this is the rogue. This is the new rogue model coming out 2023. And what's so beautiful about this gun is it's 2199 retail. So it's just stupid. That's with a carbon barrel. Yeah. We're not doing a steel barrel on this one. Yeah. Carbon barrel. And then we're doing a CT version that's 2,599 with a titanium action and just super light. I mean, I think we did a, we built one up in a 18 or 20 inch barrel. It was 5.3 pounds. Super light. And steel shot. That's awesome. It was crazy. This one comes with a three quarter MOA accuracy guarantee. But you know, as we're getting bigger, we're getting into those economies of scale where we're, um, able to make things a little more affordable and we want to pass that on to the consumer. We want them feeling a fierce rifle and being confident going into the field.

We want to help solve their problems of becoming a better shooter and hunter. And when that once in a lifetime animal comes up, they feel confident that they can take it. And, and now really not saying everyone can afford this cause they can't, but if you save your money a little bit, you could. Yeah. You know what I mean? In that price point. So out of the box rifles have gone up in price too. You know what I mean? They really have a lot. I mean, it's crazy. So this isn't that far off. No. And so, yeah, we're excited about it and we've been hitting, uh, the dealers up and they're excited about it. And the size of the orders coming in, we're, we're excited and nervous at the same time, but we're geared up to make a lot of these. Going to have to get to work. Yeah. Yep. We need to make some orders. But I mean, we're a dealer. Let's order. I'm going to, I'm going to order something.

Let's get you to. I was going to go to 300 rum just to, just to rile y'all. Speaking of that, what calibers are going to be offered in it? Not the 300 rum. Oh yeah. You're not offering the 300. Yeah. Trying to keep the price. The seven you can't reload yet, right? Can you? Uh, yeah. Yeah. We've got dies and brass and everything. Do you? Yeah. But it's, yeah, it'll be a little tough at first, but. Um, we're seeing, we've got pallets of ammo, so it's good. Uh, most of the guys that are buying the gun, we're selling them one to two boxes of ammo just because it is a trouble. But to keep the price down on this gun, we, we had to limit the offerings. If you want everything under the sun, go to a rival or a rage. We offer all kinds of color patterns and calibers, but this one only comes in, uh, 22 Creedmoor,

which we just, we didn't have that originally, but it is crazy how many 22 Creedmoors we're selling right now. Funny, isn't it? That caliber. Who's doing it? Just Predator? Predator guys. Yeah. Uh, 22 Creedmoor. Um, I can't even remember. 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC, 7 PRC, 7 rim mag, 300 wind mag, 300 PRC. So there's like seven calibers. And then just two color combos. Cabela's has an exclusive. They're getting what we call the urban with the tan and black and the black receiver. So they'll have the exclusive on that color combo. And then this one's the forest with, we changed up the green a little bit. And then we have our most popular, the Phantom, which is the gray and black. What's the epic color going to be? I don't know. I mean, we always want to be special. Come on. I mean, I'll tell you. Bronson, what kind do you like? Let's do something. You know I like orange. No. I'm sorry.

Let's vote right now.

I don't know. Anyway. But when you look at that gun, it just screams high end, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it does. Josh, did you hear that? Josh has got a little slobber he's got to wipe off. Well, Josh has read it. He's been trying to buy a gun. I don't know what the problem is. Josh Carter needs a PRC. Go smaller for a change. Try it. You might never go back. And the one thing, too, I didn't mention. How small do I have to go to make everybody happy? No. I'm not talking 22 degrees more. 6'5"? 6'5 PRC? That's nice. I'd have to buy a box of bullets off each of you. These guys have bought Cedar out, St. George out. I'm good until the next. Mogul, you'd have my back. I could grab some ammo out of the shop. Yeah, we'd take care of you. Until the next Democrat gets elected, I'm good. Let me tell you about it. Then the frenzy starts over. Yeah. So true. One change, too, on this one.

So we've got the built-in bipod rail. And we slid this one on. This is the only model of our guns that has it. We slid it up to the front. And just most bipods clip on this way, but there's like the hatches and some of those others that have to slide from the front. That's what we dealt with. You have to stalk in the way. We were, yeah. And then, of course, we got the, you know, the quick-detach flush cups. I mean, that's just the way to go. The old slings just, they're not so good. So it's got all the cool new stuff. Jeez. Oh, yeah. I'm thinking somebody needs to kill something in flannel with a Woodstock. Do you make any Woodstock? An Ot-6. You do? You shotguns? We have a batch of rifles coming, actually. Come on. Wow. Carter? Get your name on one. He's asking for it. We heard guys are dying. Hey, the old Safari Club guys, which you could fall in that category. Come on.

I mean, we can get you. Get them some. Bronson's already dated us. Monte Carlo. You're supposed to say. Bronson's already dated us about the stock. What grade of wood are we talking? What? It's high grade. Two by four ash. Is that what we're talking? What grade are we talking? Three to four. Ooh. What's that mean? Is that like grain tightness? That's pretty cool. What does it mean? What's a two by four? He's a pro. What does it mean? Give us the wood grade. The wood grains. So with Rossini shotguns, we start out at a one and a half. The cheapest gun is one and a half. The most expensive. We go up to a five or an exhibition. And what is that? It's the grain. So you see the dark. And the real, like a number one and a half looks like this right here, right? It looks like a. Like our old age 70s. A two by four. Yeah. Two by four. And then as you go up in. You don't like our coaster.

You think our coasters suck?

I think they're bad. I thought they were high grade. I thought this was amazing wood right here. But the more grain color and all that, the ranking goes up. I mean, it's kind of like a steak. You get into marbling. Okay. I relate to that. Diamonds. Carter, I think you need a number five. And some kind of iron wood built and pulled out of the Sonora Desert. Something like that. And a seven. Whatever. Seven PRC. That would fit you. And then a flannel shirt. And a cowboy hat. Flannel shirt. A cowboy hat that's got a sweat ring around it and dust stuck to it. Hey, life changes fast. Hey, as long as you're behind a 240, it don't matter. Right? Yeah. I'm telling you, 300 rum. Every one of my kids have 300 rum. I have three or four of them. Like, that was the caliber. You know what I mean? I still have one with a thumb hole stock and there's Swarovski's Yeadai on it.

You guys are acting like I got a 270.

Jeez. Or the 06. It's going to be like the 06 here in five more years. Killed some big stuff with those 300 rums. I'm just saying. Hey, I'll tell you, though. Look at those ballistic charts at 400 to 600 yards. And it's really hard to beat a 300. Oh, it is. That's where 90% of the shots or 95 are all coming from. Yep. Yep. So you're still okay. We like to tease. We just want Connor to do something. Well, and there's something to be said for exactly what Adam was talking about is those lighter calibers. Generally, you can continue to watch the animal. And a lot of it is just that. They just like that light little cartridge and it did fine. And it may not have been exactly perfectly by the book. I don't know. But you know what I'm saying. You mean a .45-3 bullet? What was your first gun? What caliber? .243. Really? Yeah. Shot my first gun or the .243. And who even shoots a .243?

We're having to model 700. Europeans. Do they? Yeah. We have some European distributors and they order .243s. And you sell them? How many years? And it's like, well, who even makes those Reamers anymore? How are we going to do that? Is the ammo even made anymore? I don't know. We built a few. Yeah. True. No, I started my kids on .22250s. Yeah. I love a .24350s. Where Jason starts his kids on .300 ultras. Yeah. I'm actually shooting a .300 ultra, but I tame it down to .3100. And it's awesome. Yeah. Brakes and. Yeah. I can't argue. Brakes and .300 ultra. Earplugs. I got kids that can't even hear. I got better hearing than some of my young kids. And it ticks me off. They don't want to wear hearing protection. Shooting pistols and just stuff out shooting clay pigeons. I'm like, wear some hearing protection. You can't make them. And they're.

They're tougher than the noise, like I was at that age. Wait until they hit 40. Yeah. Then it's gone. And you know what's crazy is one of my ears, I cannot hear a bird's chirp or a gobble or an elk bugle. And your wife asks you to do things. That's right. Okay. Sorry, you got my bad side, honey. What was that? And that's happening. She asked her. Because I'll lay in bed on one side and I'll be like, all right, hold on. I got to lift my head up and listen. And so anyway, but the minute you don't hear a bird chirp, it's a sad day. You're kind of like, geez, you know, I better take care of my one good ear.

That's true. Right? It's true. It's true. It's true. I had Ray at Sport Ear because they do hearing aids too. I got my first hearing aid for the bad ear for the left ear. No kidding. You'll hear that bird again and you'll go, wow. Just don't tell your wife about it. I mean, it makes you feel like a nature lover. I mean, I don't know. I hit 50, so I always told myself when I hit 50, I can get a hearing aid. Yeah. In my left ear. Yeah. And it's sad, but tell your kids, do they want to be like John Mogul and have a hearing aid in their left ear? Get some hearing protection on. Is that who you want to be? Is John Mogul when you grow up? They might. How many guns does John own? It's true. Well, right now he has 4,000. I know I'd like to be. Well, we're going to have to make some orders. We're a dealer too, you know, so I don't know. I mean, I'll lead us off. Can we start writing on the paper?

I got some in stock. I think he's ready too. We got some in stock, but I'm not sure now. You guys about had me sold last night. And before you write that order, let me tell you about the rival. So the rival, real quick, you're probably running out of time, but the rival, you know, we didn't want, because it's tough for a company when you come out with a gun that's more affordable, because you're getting close to that 2,000 price point. It's like how we're going to kill our OG, our rival, which has been such a stellar gun. You know, no one's going to buy it. It's $26.99. Right. Even though it has a half MOA accuracy guarantee, and this one's three quarters. So what we did to the rival, the rivals are now, it's their same price, $26.99, but every one of them now comes with an adjustable cheek piece, which people think that's heavy. It adds one ounce to the weight.

So every rival will have an adjustable cheek piece and a detachable box mag. Oh, I like that. So it's, the rival is going to be sweet for the rival lovers up there. It just, it got a big facelift and, once again, is a ton of gun for what it is. So you might want to order some new rivals, too. It's called the Rival XP next year. Oh, so that's another announcement. That's another announcement. You're getting all the good stuff early here. Rival XP, did you say? Yep. Yep. Did you have to buy that name off of Polaris? Didn't Polaris have XP? Extra power or something like that. I don't know. Our extra performance. Oh. We're different. All right. All right. Polaris ain't in guns anyway, so whatever. All right. So the rival XP. Yeah. Nice. You got decisions to make, Carter. No. I'm going to buy one of every kind. Atta boy. And one for all the kids. No. No, the kids are done.

White's got to add to his collection. Yeah. Never can have too many. But just maybe walk us through just kind of all your different. You start at the rival. So now our baseline gun's the Rogue. Rogue. Okay. So this will be the baseline. Yeah. This will be the baseline gun. We have a lot of new guns next year. And then in this gun, there's going to be the mini Rogue. So what the mini Rogue is, is it comes, it's this gun. It comes with a 12 and three quarters length of pull for your kids and ladies. And then for youth and ladies, as we teach these shooting schools, what really becomes a problem for ladies, women, and kids is a good cheek weld. You know, they're holding guns. Their face isn't even on the stock. Or they're leaning way back. So frustrating. It drives me crazy. So we come out with. Hurry, get on that gun. Get on that gun. Exactly.

So we come out with a mini Rogue, which even has shorter barrels. And then it comes with 12 and three quarter length of pull. And then an adjustable cheek piece will be standard in it. And they're around $25.50 retail. So that's the Rogue line, new for next year. And then it goes to the rival. So the mini will be a little bit more. Yeah. A little more money because it's got more features. And then it comes with two spacer systems, quarter inch spacer systems. So say, for example, you buy it for your son or whoever. You know, 12 and three quarters might fit them great. But obviously they grow quick. So you can have the spacers as they grow. So it'll continue to fit them. Yeah. Yep. So up to 13 and a quarter. Yeah. So that is going to be sweet. Because we get a lot of, you wouldn't believe it, but you get a lot of, I mean, you're a good dad. And good dads want to buy their kids good guns.

My kids have way too many guns. Well, you don't want problems. Yeah. You want their guns to kill stuff like yours do. You don't want to say, well, I'll just get them a basic gun and throw a scope on it because they're a kid. Yeah. Because you still want it to be good. But anyway, so then you go to the rivals. So then we go to the rival, we got the new XP on that version. And it has a big array of calibers, a big array of color schemes. And then you get into what we consider our premium gun, our highest end gun, which is the Rage, the three lug, more like a Sokka 85 action. Just smooth as butter, that action. That's what Wyatt shoots, that action, which is smooth as butter. It's got the three position safety. And that's the Rage. And that's the little more money. That goes up to, you know, a little more money.

Our CT version goes up to $3,500, which when you compare it, you know, it's a great price. And then we get into our compact guns, our chassis guns, the new Mount Reapers. And we just announced that in November. And that's selling really well. That's the folding stock. And those are also, for older guys, I'm lumping myself into that category. They're harder for me to wrap my head around because they're not like anything we've had. I want a two position safety. Yeah. Well, and it just feels like. Hey, hey. When they first saw the three position safeties, like, what's this? This is stupid. Like, I'm going to be shooting at something and be like, that three position safety's cost me a 200 inch. Going through my mind. So tell me, it's not that big a deal, right? It's not that big a deal. It's still front and back. Front and back. Front and back. I like the front and back.

It just has an extra button. On the Rage, when you put it on safe, the bolt actually logs. So for a guy like. So when you put it on safe and want to open the bolt. So for the guy. You've hunted Alaska. Right. When you go hunting that thick alders. Yeah. I mean, how many times have you taken your rifle off your shoulder and your bolt's open? And you had a bullet in there and you've lost a bullet, right? Because the alders grab it. The Rage, when you put it on safe, the bolt logs. So it cannot open. So you have to, if you want, you can take it off safe and it opens fine. But if you want to keep it on safe while the bullet's in the chamber and unload your gun, you hit that little button, extract it, and the hammer still blocks. So it's just an extra safety feature. Most guns, when you take them off, you know, when it locks the bolt, you have to take them off safety to open them.

But it's still front and back. Front and back. Yeah. I can see old guys just, you know. Anyway. Old guys like me. There's some advantages to that three position safety. But, yeah. To some people, it's no big deal. Yeah. Yeah. How much do those Mountain Reapers weigh? With the 18-inch barrel, they'll get down to 5.8. So for a chassis system, stupid light. And the chassis, like you said, hard to wrap your hands around. That's been extremely popular. Once again, got to think about the shooters coming up. What did those shooters do? They played video games. Oh, I know. So those chassis-looking guns just look cool. I know it does. And to an old guy, go ahead. This is like going back to the wood. It was hard to go from. It was hard to leave the wood. It was like a military guy just spray and pray and hope you hit something is what you think in your head. But I know that's not true with them.

But it's just like I want my bolt gun that is going to snipe and kill something. You know what's funny about that is I got a call the other day. A guy wanted one. And you know why? Because his exact gun he has in his game. In whatever game it was. He wanted one. He ordered it. Come on. Call of Duty or something. Yeah, that's what he uses. No, and that's a big part of it. You know when you're so ingrained from your video game that it dictates all your rifle purchases for Red Lodge? Now you got the real deal, dude. You've got a problem. You got the real deal. But it's true. And so those chassis guns kind of give that AR look. But the problem with the chassis is they've been so beefy and big and impractical to hunt with, right? Or just a bench gun. And so now you're starting to see the chassis systems get lighter.

And the chassis system, because it's all aluminum or on our mountain chassis, it's magnesium. So it's super light. But it's such a solid frame that everything's bolting into. They're super accurate. Even the Mountain Reaper on that magnesium frame. So looks cool. Shoots good. It's just like Adam saying, though. Stock full. They look heavy. Unconventional. Heavily mechanical. Lots of iron and steel components. But it's essentially the same. It's the same. Bolted action. Yeah. So that's our lineup. We do offer, for those that don't know, an AR-15. It's called the Sidewinder. And once again, I changed that just because I'm not a big tactical guy. For those that are great, but our AR-15 is an attack. I did away with the rear charging handle. Yeah. Just because I don't know if you guys have shot them before. We didn't put a scope on it.

I mean, if you're in your scope and you forget to lock one in, you've got to take your face off the scope. Charge it. Ours is just like a bolt gun. We've got a little side. You just side charge it. And then we did away with forward assist. We're not going to war with our guns. Yeah. More for coyote hunters. Yeah. Yeah. So you just boom, boom, boom, boom. And so our AR-15s and we have a Sidewinder in an F-10s in 308, 65 Creedmoor. So honestly, they outsell the 15s. A lot of guys like those. So it's cool. So that's kind of our line. And a muzzleloader, which we haven't. That's probably a whole other conversation. Yeah, it is.

I mean, are you coming out with that in 2023? That's sellable. Sellable. I know you've been playing with it a little bit. You know, in the muzzleloader, we've struggled with ignition systems, right? We came out with the ultimate muzzleloader was kind of the muzzleloader, what? Four, five, five, ten years ago. Yeah. So when we first come out with the muzzleloader four or five years ago, we kind of used that ultimate muzzleloader ignition system. And then what happened, Remington went under. And the reason we did that, you could go into usually any store and buy the brass for your ignition system. Then Remington went under and they were non-existent. So we're like, okay, this isn't working. And so we changed the muzzleloader, the ignition system, didn't like it. And now we've changed it again and we love it. We're using the arrowhead ignition system.

The guys are getting out 600 yards accurate, which is stupid. And this is not smokeless powder. This is the huntable Blackhorn 209 stuff. And my son, Gage, the guides for Doyle, he's had two client shoot elk, one at 500 and one at 600. And he got complete passers at 500, which is on the shoulder. Wow. Wow. So I'm using a gun with the arrowhead ignition system. It's unbelievable. Yeah. I mean, we're ringing the dong at 725, but it's, and it's unbelievably accurate. But you do, when you start running your ballistics on the calculator, I mean, they're falling off pretty heavy. Yeah. But at some point they're going to be a rock bouncing off the side of them. You know what I mean? So we've got that figured out. And next year we're going to have some muzzleloaders to set. That are awesome. Yeah, that are awesome. They've always been awesome. They're just going to be more awesome.

Always busy. Always thinking. Yeah. So tell us a little, I know you're scoping them out. Like you've got a Conquest V6. I've seen your guns have the V4. Some guys probably request it. But are you finding a difference between the V6, V4, any lineup that you see? We have a great relationship with Zeiss. You know, it's funny. I just had the Swarovski guys at our office last week kind of saying, hey, how can we get up to the times? Right. Right. I mean, anyhow, Zeiss has been good. Their scopes, the V6 has the glass from Germany. It's better glass. But you're finding good accuracy on either lineup? Yeah. And we'll put whatever scope the customer wants. We push and sell a ton of Zeiss, but we do it loophole. Right. Another scope that's coming on strong and I think is going to be big next year is the Night Force NX8, that little 2.5x20.

Guys are loving that in either the first or second focal plane. So they've got, you know, in both focal planes for some people like first, some people like the second. Some people don't like their reticle to grow and blah, blah, blah. So there's that argument. But yeah, whatever the customer wants, we'll usually put it on except some stuff. All right. Well, good enough. You bring something from your childhood and ask him to put it on the card. He might say, he might draw a line. Simmons straight eight, you don't like? Tasco. Fix four little fold VX1. That's it. Is that what you had? Yeah. Mine was a Simmons straight eight. I don't know why he did a freaking solid eight powder. Redfield. Yeah, Redfield, Widefield. My dad had those on a couple of rifles. It looks like a TV screen. Yeah, exactly. Like that? Yeah. Yeah, my dad had one of those too. I thought it was a cool thing.

Yeah, like a TV? Yeah. Oh, yeah. They were. Your eye box was like looking in your TV. Yep. That's right. You're comfortable. I missed a lot of stuff with that. The gamers nowadays would love that. That's it. I missed a lot of stuff. I mean, you talk about warming up some barrels. Oh, who wore out barrels didn't even know it. Yeah. Well, all right. Walking guns, I've got voids probably I need to fill after talking today. It's addicting. There's some gaps. Gaps. What about like a Predator gun? Like you talked about the .22 Creedmoor or a .22 250. I mean, is there a model you'd go with or do you have a different model for that? Yeah. So, the rivals we do in the .22 250 or the .22 Creedmoor. And like I said, I really don't. The Creedmoor just came out of nowhere last year and was our number one Predator gun by not even close.

It's just fast and it's a barrel burner though, but hey, whatever, people are liking it. So, we'll give them what they like. I'm a .22 250 guy myself. Yeah.

But either, so if you want a varmint gun, yeah, that would be in the rival in those calibers. And like I said, the Rogue, we had a lot of guys asking, saying, hey, you forgot the .22 Creedmoor in your caliber lineup. So, we just added that yesterday. Okay. So, what if we, do we have, can we do a special request? What? You ordered a .300 ROM and a .22 250? .220 Swift. You mean .270? The only two calibers you need. Wildcat. It killed everything. All right. Well, good stuff. And then one product we haven't hit on yet, your shotguns. Yeah, the semi-autos. Yes. Yeah, we came out with the Mayhem shotgun and that was a partnership with an overseas company. You know, one of those things, my son Gage is a huge waterfowler. I mean, the guy's stupid about it. And he killed a giant buck this last year. What does he not do? He's crazy, but he loves hunting birds.

And so, we've always, you know, liked the semi-autos and liked the bread and banalis. And so, we wanted to dabble in the semi-auto market a little bit. That's why we teamed up with, we don't make those. We teamed up with a partner and kind of gave them our design and they made the Mayhem for us. Obviously, at the price point, it doesn't really, you know, 800 bucks, 795. But they're a great inertia-driven gun. And so, I wanted to test that market to see if we wanted to make our own high-end shotgun. And that might be it. Yeah, shotguns was the last one we did bring up. My other company, Rossini USA, so we're the distributor for Rossini, which for people, their factory's right next to Beretta in Italy. And we do over, under, and side-by-side shotguns. Sporting guns, different things like that. So, that's another thing we do under Fierce Products. This is Fierce Firearms.

We have a separate company called Fierce Products. And those guns are phenomenal. The nice wood, the different grades of wood. And there, we've got to the point now, which is fantastic. We sell more than they can make. So, that's a good position to be in. But the brand, COVID really helped us with that. Because the big boys, Beretta and Browning, really struggled on delivery. So, the little guys kind of crept in. And we grabbed a lot of market share with Rossini. And it's cool, though. I mean, it is, you know, you've got these guns that you go, I love to upland hunt and have some dogs and different things and hunt pheasants and go hike the hills for, you know, free-range chuckers. And that's a workout. And do that thing. But also, we sponsor and follow, you know, a lot of these Olympic shooters that go shoot the sporting clays and trap and skeet. And that is amazing to me.

Because to be able to hit every clay, can you imagine? To watch those guys and the discipline and the focus, it's unreal. And so, those are the type of guns the Rossini side is. And that's been phenomenal. But, yeah, it's cool stuff. The whole shooting sport is just awesome. Those sporting clay guns are, I mean, they're designed to take out. I mean, think how many times they shoot them in a year. Dude, some of those guys. It's incredible. Blow your mind. How many rounds they're putting. And the hunting guns, like, you can tell them geek out on wood. But, like, really. Yeah. Hundreds of thousands of those guns are made to shoot hundreds of thousands of rounds. Can you imagine that? No. Workhorse guns. If you think you're deaf now. Oh, yeah. You better wear something. Turn up my mic. Yeah. But that's cool stuff, too. So, yeah. So, thanks for asking about the shotguns.

They are doing really well. And just an awesome brand. And they're beautiful, you know. It's kind of like Christmas to me, opening up some of those higher-end guns and seeing. You know, you're old. Coaster. Coaster class. You're old. So, I can say this to you. And maybe, Adam. Did your sisters get cedar chests for Christmas back in the day? Oh, yeah. Can you remember that smell? Oh, yeah. I love that. I mean, you go to Christmas and they got a cedar chest and you're like, oh, that smell. Do girls get cedar chests nowadays? Do they get cedar chests nowadays? No. You don't even know what the hell that is. No. It's still like diamonds. I don't know. But to me, when I open up those shotguns, it reminds me of when my sister's got a cedar chest and that looking at the wood and the smell. And, you know, you get a shipment of guns that come from Italy and you get those grade

four or five wood and you open it up and you look in the engraving and that smell. It's just like, dang, sweet. Brings back childhood memories. We're going to need to get Mogul a cedar chest. I have a feeling he was jealous of his sister's. I was. Maybe get him a smaller one like you get the jewelry ones. I made one in wood shop. I have to say, I have opened those gun cases and they do have a good aroma. It is. It's crazy. I don't know. It's got to be just the varnish or the... Probably. And you just look at them and every single gun is different. That's the cool part. That's the cool one. You kind of... Yeah. I guess if you worked there and you saw a good one, you picked one. There were some secret piles sometimes in the inventory. Swirls. We might have... When you get a new pallet in, we might have to come over.

I was going to say, Dev, I mean, next time we get a shipment in, you can stop buying just small. Crack the crate. Just crack the crate. You can Joe Biden them, bud.

It's true. Take a whiff.

Oh, Dev. Good times. Sniffer. Biden sniffer. I like it. Pistols, are you going down that road at all ever or no? Maybe. No kidding. Is that 2024? We can announce that right now. Yeah. We were shooting. We were shooting for some cool pistol stuff. Shot show this year, but it got the back burner for this gun. But yeah. Yeah. I think... Nice. Keep your eyes open. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Maybe a 10 millimeter bear pistol or something.

You are. You are. I don't know. You're going LR Grizzly on us now. I don't know. 10 millimeters. I mean, geez. What are we going to do? What, the nine? No. No. Well, maybe we'll do a python. Yeah. All right.

I took my nine off earlier. Yeah. Thanks. We feel better when that's not pointed at us. I don't point it at you. It's a fun industry, just like you guys. I mean, you probably feel like you're in the dream industry. You get to talk hunting and stuff all day. And that's kind of how I feel being in the gun industry. We get to talk a lot of hunting and build guns that we want to hunt with. Right? And so... Pretty awesome. It's a dream. It's an awesome field. And we love it. We're passionate about it. And so I think that's why... What helps us bring out some cool stuff. Yeah. No question. Wyatt, you got anything else? I think I'm good. You brought out a couple of good points there. Josh? I'm good. You still there at the sewer ponds? He's clipping the wire. He's going to put his order in. I can see. Oh, yeah. I've done it. What are you doing? I don't know. Come on.

That's what he said yesterday. This is disruptive. He was dead set until this baby got laid on the counter, I think. I think so, too. Yeah. So he's gotten out decisions. I don't know if I can divulge that on a hot mic. I have to be. Oh, yeah. Your wife listens to the podcast. Oh, yeah. That's right. Women and children listen to her first. She already heard the price points a minute ago from John. Small length of pull. There's no excuse now. She needs a hunting vehicle. She needs another gun. Yep. Yeah. Good stuff. Well, we appreciate you stopping by. John, I know it's here Christmas time, New Year's time, and everybody's busy, but it's good to go through what you got on tap for the future, but also what's hot right now. So we appreciate your time stopping with us. Your knowledge kind of spills over pretty obvious. So, yeah, thanks for taking time with us today. Yeah. Yeah.

Thanks for having me, guys. You bet. We appreciate it. Appreciate the partnership with Epic. Hopefully we can, you know, hopefully you'll let us advertise on your pages and you'll take our money and we can, you know, show people. We'll take your money, but we want some Epic colors. What a color schematic. Yeah. All right. It's all good. Well, we appreciate you. You bet. Thanks for having me. Thanks a lot. Hey, everybody. Thanks for listening to our podcast and being a supporter of Epic Outdoors. We just wanted to remind you that we are an official dealer for Fierce Arms. So if you're looking at getting a rifle and have any questions, feel free to give us a call. Devin, we got any in stock? Yeah, we got a couple. Chances are there's a caliber that somebody's going to want, too. We kind of cherry pick those. We know the Fierce guy's pretty good.

I used to actually work there, so we have the luxury of going up and grabbing some ourselves. But yeah, give us a call. We know the rifles well. We can help you with caliber choice, model. There are several different models, as you heard in the episode. So yeah, anything you need, give us a call. A lot of what we do is we'll stock the models and calibers that we like and that we would use. And so we've actually got a lot of those in stock. And if we don't have it in stock, we can get it quickly. But a lot of times, we've got what you need, and we can get it out even same day sometimes. Yeah, they usually carry a pretty good inventory. So I can call those guys and say, hey, do you have this, this, this? And it might check all the boxes for you, and we'll have it here in two days. Yeah. So if you want to order or just have questions, want to talk about guns, give us a call. 435-263-0777.