Ep 270: The Regrets Episode

Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour.

All right, before we get this podcast started, Logan and I have a special announcement for the giveaway that we're going to be doing here. This will be a little bit of a different giveaway. We just barely came up with the other day, and it's actually going to be about a month long, not quite a month, I guess, a few weeks long. It'll be kind of a different one, kind of a fun one. I don't know whether you guys out there are basketball fans. I try and watch stuff occasionally, basketball, sports and things, but don't really have enough time. But usually March Madness, Super Bowl, things like that, I at least try and watch those. Kind of fun. But one of the things we've decided to do with March Madness beginning, and since how we can't go shed hunting or anything else fun like that, I guess we'll just have to watch a bunch of basketball games.

But we're actually going to do a giveaway, an optics giveaway with an NCAA Men's Tournament Bracket Challenge. So here's the thing. What we're going to do is we're going to run this on the ESPN Tournament Challenge app. So what you're going to want to do is go to download the ESPN Tournament Challenge app and get that on your phone. Go on and create a username and all that. And then go in there and we're going to have a bracket called the Epic Outdoors Giveaway. Find that there. We're also going to have a link on our social media stuff. We're going to have a link in our bios to that if you want to go directly to it. But it'll be easy to find. Once you get your username built, you just go in there and you can search a bracket name. And start typing it in and it'll come up. But it'll be the Epic Outdoors Giveaway. It's going to require a password to get in there.

We're not just going to allow anybody in there. It's only going to be people who either listen to this podcast or guys that follow us on social media. We're going to do a couple social media announcements. So it's not going to go out to the entire world, just the guys that are following us. So anyway, go in there, create a bracket. I guess, first of all, it is going to be a private bracket. So the password to get in there is going to be Muley, all lowercase, M-U-L-E-Y. So that'll allow you to have to type that in before you join the bracket. And when you do, make sure you edit the name of your bracket to have your first initial and last name, at least, to give us kind of an idea. And put that in there. The winner, we're going to be obviously the NCAA tournament. There's no winners, no participation points or trophies for second place. Winner take all here. Yep.

So it's going to be the first. The guy that wins it all gets to send them this Vortex Razor HD spotting scope. So it's the 27 to 60 by 85. Pretty sweet spotting scope. It's going to be yours free and clear. All you have to do is make a bracket. Pretty easy. It's kind of fun. That bracket is going to lock Thursday by the time the first game starts. So you'll have now, what, today? Well, it's probably come out like Friday, I guess. You'll have, of course, over the weekend, Sunday is when they'll announce the brackets. So basically from Sunday through Thursday, early morning, you'll want to get a bracket in. That's when you'll have time to do it. So whatever sources you use, whether you have to chase, I don't know, some kind of an animal, have animal races, boil eggs in the microwave, whatever you need to do to figure out how you're going to run your bracket, get that in there.

Name your bracket. Like I said, first initial, last name. And we are going to require you, you're going to need to be following us on Instagram. That's where we're going to be doing any of our updates or any information on there, as well as the winner does have to be following us on Instagram. We're going to cross-reference that and make sure that they are there. But you're going to want to follow us there anyway.

Then, so what, the last game, I believe, is April 3rd, which is Monday, April 3rd. So once that's over, the cool thing about it is, if you haven't done this before, it just tracks itself. So you'll be able to, every game, it updates with the points of who's winning, who's losing. And we'll be able to see who's in the lead and who's last. Something to keep in mind is, all of us here in the office, maybe not everybody, but we're going to try and get everybody. Jason says he doesn't watch basketball, but who knows? We're going to get him to join. You make a bracket. Yeah. So I guess if you can beat Adam and Devin or Wyatt, I mean, he's a pretty big sports fan. So don't get on there. Don't take his advice. But I would get on there, create a bracket. Obviously, see if you can beat us here in the office, and the winner gets to take home this spotting scope. But anyway, get those brackets in.

It'll be a cool, just kind of a fun thing. We're going to do Never Done It Before, so we're going to try it out and see how it goes. Yeah. If the technology side is sounding a little bit scary to you, we'll have a link in our Instagram bio. Take you right to the bracket, and you'll just be able to – it'll kind of walk you through it from there. Make an account, create a bracket, pick your teams. And Josh joined just a minute ago. It didn't seem too difficult. No, we went ahead and Logan went and got it all set up. Like I said, the tournament bracket is called Epic Outdoors Giveaway. So go on there.

And, yeah, let's get it on. Yeah. We just wanted to make that little announcement before we start the podcast. So hope everybody enjoys the podcast. Yep, enjoy it. Hey, everybody. Jason Carter, Adam Brotson, John Peterson. How are you, John? I'm good. We got Wyatt, too. Wyatt. I'm here. Not the big grand entrance because I don't want you to walk out of here and get mad at me. Yeah.

Wyatt's here. Devin's here. Josh is here. It's on a Friday. Everybody's ready to go shed hunting, right? Oh, wait. Yeah, shut down. Head to Arizona this weekend. All Utah guys head to Arizona, May 1st to the 7th, whatever. Don't we have a seven-day window? What do you mean? We can't do anything in Wyoming. March 3rd in Arizona. March 3rd. That's today. Oh, yeah. Well, I'm just getting excited about it. What are we going to do in that seven-day window where everybody else is out frolicking? Anyway. We're going to pass some reciprocity laws for Wyomingites. That might be on the podcast. I think we should. I think, actually, if you're a resident in your state, whatever non-resident limitations you have, you have to abide by those same limitations when you leave your state. So, for example, Wyoming residents can't hunt wilderness areas in any other state.

Yeah, and there's a lot in Utah and Nevada. There's a lot in BLM. Yeah. We're not talking backcountry. New Mexico 16B. Oh, yeah. Or sheep hunts. Yeah. You know what I mean. That's right. Without a guy. Hire somebody. Without a guy. Let's do it. Maybe we give some of our non-resident permits to our outfitters to sell. I don't know. There's some things to think about. That would be an interesting podcast. Yes, let's tee that up for a week or two from now. You don't want to do it right now? I mean, that's as far as I need to go with it. I mean, we don't need a whole podcast on it. Okay, maybe not. We're just a little bit angry for a minute. Everybody has the right to make laws in their own state. Just, yeah, every kid can eat it too sometimes. So, maybe we'll put it right back at you. It's kind of crazy times. We're dealing with a few things here in Utah, too.

Just, you know, things that are getting passed that were surprises that we didn't get to weigh in on. I mean, I don't know. Just a lot of crazy times, don't you think, why? Yeah, definitely. It's been a while on social media. And it doesn't even bother to try to stay on top of it because stuff metamorphosizes over a week or two or days. And so, it goes from one proposal, gets shot down four times, goes through six iterations. And, you know, at the buzzer, it's kind of like stealing something on eBay at the buzzer, you know, with a bid. You get something added, two lines into something, adding a whole new something to a rider to a bill that didn't even have anything to do with, you know, something. Some crazy politics. Yeah, there's crazy politics. And I think part of it, you know, I don't, part of it, it just, it kind of tells us that our original system is a little bit broken.

The fact that it just feels like you can't get anything done. Like, it takes 14 committees, 13 years later, you're still praying about stuff and can't really ever make a decision, you know. And so, then people are getting frustrated. They go around and take it to the legislature and sneakily, sneaky snake, takes it all through. The pondering period's taking too long. So, yeah, that's what it feels like. You mentioned prayer, but the pondering portion's taken way too long. That's what I'm talking about. I mean, for all intents and purposes. All the discussions and meetings and beddings. It just can't get anything done. You got racks, you got all these opinions. Well, and everybody wants everything their way. And if it's not their way, it's the wrong way. And then you get passionate about it.

And that's what makes it hard to go through a committee and a rack because there's, it's about inclusion, right? It's about voicing an opinion. It's about being heard. But then, man, there's too many opinions. And I'm just saying that in a generic sense. Everybody's got opinions on how they need to do it. It's very hard and frustrating to sit through and make what's changed happen. And fortunately, certain legislators are, you know, making that happen with a couple sentences. Well, and the boards are trying to please everybody. There's really nice, awesome people on our board, you know, at the Wildlife Commission. You just, you know, they want to please everybody. And they got all these opinions hitting them. And with the information age and being able to hit people in three seconds and texting and emails and they're, they're scared to make a decision that might make people mad.

And your every decision makes lots of people mad. And so then decisions don't get made in a timely fashion. We watch our deer plumbing and 14 other issues that need to be addressed. And just like the technology stuff, Kent, you know, that's in committee. We'll be forever, it feels like. So anyway, I see why it happens. But then now you're watching it happen and it bypasses everybody and everything. And you get one guy that's creative that gets it through. Well, and I think in the last few years, probably since 2020, just mandates and a lot of us feel like government overreach and all that kind of stuff. And so it's all fresh on people's mind. And so then when it comes something into a sport or something you do, you love very much, it becomes really, really personal. And you go from zero to 100 fast.

I mean, it started with making you wear a mask or whatever, you know, that people, I'm not going to do that. Government overreach, whatever. And now it's somebody potentially doing something, a livelihood that you love or, you know, an industry that you're in, something. And it's, you know, people are passionate now and tired of things like the overreach. And nobody likes the overreach, right? But then all of a sudden we have a 200-yard crossbow with a turret on it. Yeah. And Wyoming allows crossbows. And so then you say, well, there needs to be more regulation, right? Like if we're not going to govern ourselves and we're going to continue with these kinds of, you know, advances in technology, I'm the last guy that wants to, thinks we need more regulation. But do we really need 200-yard crossbows with turrets?

Is that the idea of archery hunting so we can get the old guys back in it because their shoulders are blown out? Or even the young guys that just want to be able to shoot 200, like me. I want to shoot 200. But I don't know it's not – I don't believe it's right. It's not the spirit of archery hunting. And so, you know, we're in these crazy times, don't you guys think? Yeah. In every state – A lot of change. We could spend 15 minutes on every state, you know. I mean, but it doesn't do any good. Like I said, you can talk about a proposal. Just wait until what gets passed. I mean, if you're in that state, you're going to get involved. You know, it's hard for us to get involved in every state issue and weigh in. We do occasionally. You know, when they're asking about non-resident issues in, you know, Wyoming and maybe Colorado survey that have gone out. We do that.

But, I mean, the iterations from the first survey to what ended up getting changed, you know. We could have had five podcasts that conflict each other about whatever's being bantered back and forth. I mean, we could break it up just for a minute and tell a couple hunting stories. Well, or talk about the best thing I heard all week, the quotes from Jason. There we go. You want to go grab your stickies or do you remember them? I look at them every day. Bro.

Okay. For all of you listening to this, at any day, we're going to be able to post that. Hey, you can't make something up about me. I just sometimes I come up with ideas. No. So, Jason was researching Colorado moose. And there's some giant. The biggest Shira's moose. You do remember this. Wow. The biggest Shira's moose anywhere in the West right now are coming from Colorado. Multiple giants. And that's not what he brought to our attention, was it? He was talking about the easiness of drawing. The long-clashed brown-eyed ones. Yeah. The ease of drawing cow moose tags in Colorado. I don't know why. And he kind of said what? I kind of want one. I kind of want one. But Bronson. And I've never wanted to kill a female or anything. Ever. Janna, have I ever killed a female or anything? Unless it's a coyote and I'll kill every one of them.

But you get going just like you and I get going about stuff that we don't even, we have no interest at all, but you get vested. Then you see one that went to a guy that didn't even have his three. Didn't you see one that didn't even have his three base points? There's one that didn't have his three base points. Right. So I started looking at drawing odds. I made Kurt add the cow moose drawing odds to our website. I made mention of it. It was a paragraph in our magazine. He's gone through phases with antelope and now the cow moose phase has just begun. They say the older you get, you just cherish the hunt and not the trophy. And the meat. In your defense, you were talking about 400 or 500 pounds of awesome meat. You were talking about that. That's the most crimson red, gorgeous meat. Iron rich. You had a full moose tag and did not. What? Okay. What minute are we at?

It's the big long eyelashes of those cow moose that get it. It's true. Jenna doesn't even know probably, but I did have a moose tag. Well, it was one of those times that you're like, you know, I've been gone away from the family a lot. I better stay home this time. That's exactly right. You exercise self-restraint. Yeah, I did. Okay. That's the other quote we come out here out of his office a lot. Family first. I hope to salvage that one, boss. Let's move on. It was so, okay. So everybody listening to this podcast has regrets, right? In our hunting lives, we have regrets. It's my regrets are once in a while, if you miss a coyote, like that's a huge regret, right? Or you don't go on a specific hunt or, or maybe you chose the wrong hunts to go on. Like right now we're really contemplating, like, do we go north or south? Like you're going to go south, right? Because all this water down here.

Anyway, ended up with a tag and, and I didn't take advantage of it. Turned it back. But I've killed a moose and I was like, you know, I just can't make it happen. At the time it was also, you'd say an average. You kind of, you were in Jason Carter mode, meaning you were after a kill. The drawing the tag's the kill. Yeah. And then all of a sudden like, oh, I went after odds. You went after drawing odds at the time. I did, but now it's like one of the best units in the state. And I'm looking at all these giants. Eight or ten years ago though when you got this. Yeah, now I'm thinking I'm back in, I'm back in fully. And you did select the refund box, right? I'm not going to talk about that either. Well, it was probably a time. I love this. You might have a bunch of kids and mouths to feed at home are more important than recreational. So interesting how Wyatt doesn't say a word.

Except for antagonistic, pokey. Got to love Wyatt. Thank you, Wyatt. Yeah, anytime. That's what I'm here for. So anyway, yeah, I have a couple regrets. Another one is not gaining sheep points in Wyoming years ago, Bronz, remember? Yeah, that's right. And we had them, but then we're like, oh, they're going up and raising their fees and we'll never draw anyway. And then now we're old dudes looking back on it saying, well, that would have been a sheep tag. If I had done it a couple years sooner, two or three, it would have been monumentally different. You know, the writing was on the wall. And that's even before the new 90-10 for real stuff. But, yeah, if I had a crystal ball, we probably wouldn't have drawn because everybody would have started back then if you knew what the crystal ball was. What do you got? I just wonder what he's doing with these papers here.

Well, I was going to write some notes and now I'm just a mess. He's nervous. Jana knows something new. He had a lot of notes.

Wyatt, talk about a regret of yours now. My regrets? Yes. I don't regret anything. Yes, you do. Wyatt, what do you regret? Oh. We're not talking about college days. We're not talking about. Only hunting related. Hunting related regrets. Probably spending the money on the Airbnb and fuel to go to 11211 in Colorado. Wyatt! Whoa. That has everything to do with me. Again. Wyatt, who talked you into that hunt? Come on! I don't remember. You put me on the spot. That's all that came to my head. Which means it's at the top of his head. Okay. So let me explain this one. How many years ago was that? And it's still the first thing that comes to his mind? Yep. Rolled off his fives? Unit 15 fourth doesn't come to his mind. How was that for you? Why? Yeah. It didn't work out very well either. But no. We're going to talk about 11211. Add 14 years ago. So why? And by the way, it was mine too.

Like you and I both ate it. We were there. Sucked. Hunt was terrible. But it's surrounded by amazing units. There was a lot of deer though. I mean, it was. We did see a lot of deer. Wasn't there a Bitter Brush National Monument? What is that? It is. It's called Bitter Brush. Maybel, Colorado? Come on. Yes. Yes. I think it was. Yeah. It's Bitter Brush. Bitter Brush Park or something. Park or something. Fact check this one. And it is a Bitter Brush factory. Fact check it right now. Bitter Brush whatever monument. Is it just a topographical feature or a state park? No, it's like as far as the eye can see. It might be a wildlife management area or something maybe. The most amazing deer feed on planet Earth for miles. Bitter Brush bench?

Should have been two hundies all over in it.

Should have, could have, would have. Hey, you went some, you went some. So then, you know, Wyatt, he just doesn't take responsibilities for his own actions. It's got to be somebody else's fault. This one was mine and I ate the tag too.

Oh boy. Yeah. All right, never mind Wyatt. We're stalling. Waiting for these. Wyatt's got a regret. What else? Threw me on the spot. John, what's your biggest regret? Going too fast on a Mexican road. On a four-wheeler. On a four-wheeler. When the cattle guard's missing. When the cattle guard's gone. And doing end over end. You're lucky you came back. In all seriousness. Oh, I'm so lucky. You could have broken neck, whatever. I mean, I smashed my gun case with my face. Would have had extradited your body somehow back to the States. Was it? Yeah. Cracked my gun case. Where would Epic be without you, John? Oh, geez. Bronson, we're pretty lucky he made it. Trust me. It was probably a week before magazine deadline. What would he have done? What would we have done? Gone, you know, done a paper. Eight, ten pages. Anybody that's really good at graphic design, go ahead and give Adam a call.

435-263-0777. We definitely need a backup. John, no more Mexico trips. No more Mexico. Yeah. No more. John. All right. That's the only regret or one of the... One of the... Yeah. Nothing. I have a New Mexico archery hunt that I would do different. Yeah. You know? Like some of those... You're talking unit 15. Unit 15. You ran cameras. Crushed it. I ran cameras. It was awesome. And I should have just sat water. Yeah. Early. Yeah. You had the early hunt, didn't you? Yeah. I had the early hunt. First to 14th. You just don't know they're not going to be bugling at all. And, you know, you waste a lot of time. And if I would have sat water every day, it would have... Get a couple blind buddies and just crush the whole... Blind buddies. It would have been awesome. Yeah. Jenna got us those for our Christmas party. She's amazing. Thank you, Jenna. I love it. She's always supportive. All right.

And all of our crazy ideas. By the way, Wyatt, fact-checked. Go ahead. Yeah, it is the Bitter Brush State Wildlife Area. And so you see it, and there's great big signage. And I mean, as far as you can see... It wasn't designated by Congress, but it does have a name on a map. I don't know who designated it, but it was right. Yeah. Right? Was it not miles of it? It was unbelievable, the amount of Bitter Brush. I do remember you telling me about that after you guys went. Nothing but Forkies. I mean, geez. As many Forkies as you could count, though.

I couldn't count that high. Why didn't we start off with the positive? Why don't we start off with the positive? Probably one of the coolest Forky factories that I've ever seen in my time. Wyatt's always... He's always a downer. We could have started off with this. That's a new term that we should put in the mag, a Forky factory. That's right. Let's do it. Bronson and I challenge each other to use a certain word. Sometimes we throw one word out each magazine and hope it gets by Jana. Jason, use this. You have to use this. And I'm like, all right, you have to use this. So if it's ever kind of doesn't fit, there's ulterior motives sometimes. Maybe roll with it. It doesn't have to be perfect. Pre-scout. Josh, what do you regret?

Oh, come on. Hunting related, Josh. This side worried me. I worry what you're going to say. We can edit this. Okay. But we can't unhear what we hear. That's a good point. I might be scarred for life. Josh.

He's already big. He's just like, I love those Santa Claus cheeks. It's freaking red right now. I'm getting nervous. I got plenty of things to regret in my life. But one of them reminds me of a story when I was a game warden. This was a long time ago. So every time we say the word game warden, Wyatt starts sweating. Yeah, he does. We lose Wyatt. He might even just excuse himself. Why does all this go back to me somehow?

Everything circles to Wyatt. Well, Wyatt and I, we're on the side of the office that there's no game wardens on. Yeah, the non-gamey side. All right, go ahead, Josh. Somehow I get lumped into that, even though I never held the bash. I get the story of Wyatt when I got to spend a few hours with you one day. Oh, no kidding. A little investigating going on? Wow. Tell us more. Because I wasn't a game warden at that point. I don't think you get much out of Wyatt. But what, Josh? When I was a game warden, so I was with my sergeant one time. I was a pretty new officer, and I got schooled by some kids on a four-wheeler up on Beaver Mountain. We were driving along up there. And they didn't have permits with them or anything. How do you know? There's some details of the story that would make it all come together, but I can't give those here. We can share that after.

But they were lying, and I knew they were. So I was like, well, I'm going to follow them. I told them, I was like, well, do you have your licenses? And they said, yeah, we're back at our camp. So anyway, we tried to follow them back to their camp. And they were going like two miles an hour when we were on the good dirt road. I was in the three-quarter ton Dodge truck that I had. Bought them a little time to think. And the second we got off on this little two-track, we were coming up, and they were going faster and faster. And I was like, okay, any second. I've got to turn my lights on and get them to slow down because I could have a hard time keeping up with them. And all of a sudden, we came up, and I come around the corner, and there's a split in the road. And they're gone. And so I'm like, you're kidding me.

And all I can see is I hurry and get out, and I can hear a four-wheeler just blaring in that speed. And then a mud puddle, like the water moving. And they were gone. We never found them. Spent all afternoon hunting every camp trying to find those kids. So how does this relate to regret? So you're saying they got away with it. So then at that point, I regretted it. So I learned at that point, if I ever come upon somebody and I think they're lying to you, I'm going to take something. So that way, at least I have something. I'll take their bow. Josh, people have rights. No, no, I'll take them. Even if you're a game ward. We all have rights. So fast forward a couple years later, I observed this elderly couple fishing. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. They were fishing. And I went down there, and I watched them fish. And I got down there, and they had seen me coming down the beach.

And by the time I had left my truck, the time I got to them, they were no longer fishing. In fact, they were just sitting by the shores of Otter Creek Reservoir enjoying a view. If you've ever been there, but there's not much of a view there. So sunset to their back. So anyway. Sagebrush to their front. This is a great sunset. Yeah, you're not even facing it. Yeah. So we had a sensitive conversation about things I'd seen and things they claimed they weren't doing. So I was like, okay. And they're like 80, right, if I remember right? Oh, yeah, they were. And I was like, all right. I'm just trying to catch dinner, though, right, Josh? I mean, just trying to eat. Yeah. So I held on to their driver's licenses thinking, yeah, they're not. Because the problem was I had to walk back to my truck. Like, it was quite a ways back there. You were walking around the shore.

It was a good, yeah, it was a good 500 yards, which that's a long ways for me to walk. So anyway, I walk back there. And I'm sitting in my truck, and I have both their driver's licenses. I'm looking at them, and I look down the beach, and I could barely see the top of their car where they were at from there. And I look down, and I'm sitting there typing on my computer. And I look down after I get two of the tickets written, and I'm like, what the heck? I don't see the car. So I jumped out, and I ran down. And there was a guy that was down the beach from me. And as soon as I got down towards him, and he looked up at me and says, they took off on you, man.

I'm like, you're kidding me. So I ran back up to my truck, and there was this dirt road that goes out to the highway. And I could see a car flying. And dirt. We're talking 80-year-old people. They all say they don't know how to drive. And I'm like, well, and they all, you lose your driver's license. It's common at that age, maybe. So just go walk in. I love my license. Can I get a new one? So I had their driver's license in my hand. I'm like, they freaking took off on me. And I got their driver's licenses. Like, who does that? They weren't from this state. I'd got enough out of them to know where they were camping. So I knew that they were probably going back to their camp. And so I was like, oh, jeez, what do I do right here? And I just got in my truck, and I started to chase them. I was hoping to get to catch them, and I wasn't going to catch them.

They had a pretty good head start on me. So I called in to dispatch on the radio. Wow. And this is where the regret comes in. Spike strips? Where are we going? Well, yeah. Well, that's why I didn't know what to do. So I called in to dispatch, and I was like, hey, I need you to run these driver's licenses for me. So they did. And they're like, yeah. Anyway, they give them to me. Well, the guy actually came back. He had had, like, aggravated assault on a peace officer or something. In California. Probably when he was, I don't know how old. And that's why I was like. When he was 63. Okay, anyway. And they're like, okay, do you need any backup? You know, they're reading all this 10 code. And I'm like, no, actually, they took off on me. And they're like, are you? I was 1088 or whatever. It's like the pursuit thing. The dispatch lady's like, are you 1088? And I'm like, yeah.

Kind of sitting here talking to you. Yeah, I am. I don't know where to go. And all of a sudden, every law enforcement officer in the whole county was like, the radio just starts going off. Where are they at? I'm over here. I'm over here. They were ready for a chase. Every highway patrolman, every deputy. And I was just like. It's going to be kind of fun. Well, this part of Utah, you're looking for something to do. You need excitement. Oh, they were. They were. They're sagebrush. And white lines. Yeah. We have volunteer police officers here. I want to be one just to listen to the radio. Maybe act out something. Helicopter pilot was ready to even fly. Really? Yeah. And so they're like, everybody's coming that way. I'm coming down highway such and such. I'm coming down highway such and I was just like, oh, and you know, they teach you this thing. And you're talking. This is for fishing. Yes.

This is a fishing incident. And you know what? They teach you in like the police academy what you do. Like this is now running fling from a law officer. It's a felony. And so you do a felony stop, which is you stop the vehicle and you get them out at gunpoint. And so I'm like. They were too pulling at the time. Yes. And they were fishing without licenses. So anyway. Pretty soon you're wondering. Okay. So how did it then? Well, the good thing was at some point it was kind of funny because they were starting to read and they're like, okay, go ahead and give the description. One of the highway patrolmen, he was really keen to know that. I think he was ready to shoot somebody. So he was keen to know that. You can't say that, Josh. Sorry. He was ready for action. And he came and he calls on the radio. He was like, I need the description. And so they give the description to the people.

And they're like, and what's the date of birth? And they're like, she rattles it off. And the guy goes, hold on. Can you repeat that? And she reads it again. 1920. And he goes, and the dispatcher says, yes, they're 80. And like, in his reply, he's like, okay. And you can literally hear his sirens and everything. Hey, I'll be out of my car at a coffee shop. I'm going to the red. You have no backup. Yeah. Even though he had a big old long rap sheet. They decided they got a little ways and probably remembered they forgot their driver's license. I had them with them or whatever. They ended up like ducking into where the bathrooms and stuff were at the. Marina. Marina. And anyway, we tried to find them. Then the park ranger called me. He found them over there. Confiscated their fish. Fed your family. So the regret was not getting something from someone.

But then you learned that even when you do, it still doesn't solve the problem. Yeah, it still doesn't do anything. And then you have to call out on the radio that you're in a police pursuit. Over octogenaria. Chasing octogenaria. You have them face down in the dirt at one point. And yeah, my evidence was they should have power bait all over the fingers and glitter on their face. The power bait. That's how you'll know what's there. I can't compete with that story. So don't. Some funny stuff. Well, geez. Archibald, do you have any regrets? Not killing that turkey that chased you. Yeah, he deserved it.

Besides picking very questionable campsites that some of you have experienced. Yeah.

Because it involved me being in my underwear later. That's it. Trying to survive. While I'm in the middle of the night shaking trucks when killing mice. I was talking about the mice infested one out in Nevada. Oh, was that? Sounds like everyone you pick is kind of. Weird stuff happens to me, dude. Or just. Wyatt's crushing everybody that likes him.

But the main thing that it makes you think about is regrets that you might have. That's a good point. Like not hunting over the counter archery and 13A on the strip when we could have done that. Right? Because things do change over time. And we think in the moment you think. That's going to be there forever. This is going to be there forever. I'll bet you there's someone that just heard that right now and don't believe that that just happened. That used to happen. Yeah, we used to be able to do that. What do you mean you could do that? What do you mean? That was until 2000 what? Eight, nine, seven. Seven. Something right there? Seven. Seven. I know when 27. It would be the same year. Don't ask me how. I killed Chief. Because there was other people that had over-the-counter archery tags that year. It was seven, eight. Something right there it ended. Not that long ago. Fifteen years.

We're talking. It ended. But wait. Maybe we should go around. Talk about more. That's a good one. I mean, I agree. I was old enough to know better. And I don't want to finish the other line with that song. Because I don't think I was too dumb to care. But I was old enough to know better that I should have been doing that. We just didn't take it serious. Same thing. I mean, back in the good days we had. I mean, Bronson, you remember. Because we're old. John. Maybe one other. I don't know. There was. You know, we used to get over-the-counter, basically, general deer tags we hunt in November. Our general was a dedicated hunter tag when we were kids. Yeah. When you got a general, you bought it. And you got an archery. And if you didn't kill, you got to go to the rifle. And then if you didn't, you get to hunt the first five to ten days in November like we do now. In November.

On the limited entry general draw. And I remember my dad smashing a book typical on that tag. Yeah. That booker. Yeah. It was a dedicated hunter tag that you bought at Monticello Merck. I mean, for all intents and purposes, you were, I mean, you were allocated a deer. Like, you were entitled to a deer. Yeah. For all intents. Everybody killed a deer. If you wanted a deer, you killed one. Yeah. Now, you got to draw general, draw dedicated. Dedicated is only two out of three year harvest. I mean, there's so many changes. We could go in every other state. You got to work your guts off, pay out. It was only five or six years ago you could get Idaho deer tags. I remember that year. Remember when Ty drew a youth deer hunt in 54? You remember that year? And when a youth draws a deer tag, they can only buy the cheap version of a deer permit. Mentor.

If the adult has a corresponding deer tag, I didn't have one. That was like August. He drew in the second draw. Remember? The second draw in August. I went and bought a deer tag then just to have one to hunt across the highway so he could buy his for roughly $20. Now that system's even frustrated because those tags are basically not available that late in the game. But how recent was that? That was when he was like, I don't know, 12 or 13 or whatever. Four or five years ago. Yeah. I bought a general tag in August that was still left over. And it wasn't a quota. It wasn't a region or a unit. It was a statewide field. It seems like it was last year. Has it already been four to five years? Well, I mean, dude, he's 18 years old now. He was whatever, 13 probably when that happened. Yeah. So five max, let's just say. That's happened fast.

Now we're dealing with a cluster that December was with that website and hourglasses and things online. Thousands of thousands of people in line. And so that's gone away. You know, bit by bit, we're seeing Colorado archery OTC units being pulled from the statewide OTC every year. It seems like there's a couple more unit clusters being pulled from that. But there's new opportunity opening up. Lions over the counter. You know, basically not even over the counter. You don't even need a permit in Utah if this gets signed. Huh? Huh? But it's really been over the counter. You'd have to buy a $58 tag. But it's really, for me, that doesn't really change a whole lot. If I want to shoot a mountain lion, I could have yesterday, just like I can next month. But anyway. Trapping. Yeah, that's a different story. There's some crazy changes in Utah.

People are so frustrated about the deer that basically, you know, another thing that we're dealing with is, you know, lions and being able to shoot them at will, as long as you have a hunting license. Don't need a tag, year round, wherever, whenever. And any size or gender or anything. So kind of crazy, which has caused another bunch of controversy. But things are changing so fast. That's what we're talking about. Changes, regrets. It's, you know, enjoy it while you got it kind of thing.

Devin, what kind of regrets are you thinking of right now? I can think of a couple throughout my life. Hunting related. We'll stick with that. When I, I remember when Wyoming, I remember I was in high school, maybe a sophomore, junior, some older guys were talking about Wyoming going to a draw. And I remember telling myself, well, I need to do this, you know, and I missed it. I think I was two years behind. On the points. On the points. I'm in high school. Yeah. I still spent the money on the deer and the antelope. I did not buy the $50 elk. Yeah. Until a couple years down the road. For all intents and purposes, food comes first. That's true. And I had to pay for Arizona and things like that. So that's good. But then I, I think I'd have a couple more deer on my wall if I just would, like, I hunted Colorado in 07. That's the only time I went. It was like a second choice draw.

And it was awesome. You know, the good old days. It was. It was. It was. And I, I only did it once probably in, and then I had 10, 10 year points after that. Yeah. I should have, I was guiding and making money, trying to pay for school. You know what I mean? But back then, even Utah General was good. You had, there's so many opportunities that. Yeah. Yeah. Hindsight, though, if I would have, I wish I would have been there every year possible. Yeah. Yeah. Done one less deer hunt or whatever, but. Got it. One less hunter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And went out for five days. Seven day or five days. Show up and hunt. Yeah. Even if I could go out for three days, that would have been worth it. Kind of what we do now. So that's what you're telling your younger self, like your older self telling your younger self. And what you would tell Gen Z here or whoever. Yeah. Right?

Is like, this is what you shouldn't do. You shouldn't just. Even get a tag in case you kill early and have time to sneak away. It's worth, it would have been well worth it. The problem is, it's just like we're all talking about, is you assume these opportunities are never going to end. They're going to be the next year. It'll be all the same. You're going to be young forever. You don't even picture your body getting old. 20 years seems like might as well be 200. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, and it's hard to think that what's in front of you is so great, so awesome. It won't change all that. You got to think that it's going to. It will. Just look at people. Just look at people that grew up and only archery hunted in Utah over bait. That's all they ever did. What do they do when that stops? Well, Josh, you've had guys reach out to you and ask you, what do I do? Yeah. For that purpose, you mean?

Yeah. I mean, it's all they ever did. Wasn't it you? I think it was you. Yeah. We talked about, yeah. And basically, they were like, what do I do? I've only hunted over bait. They're trying to figure out how to hunt because for the first three or four years of their life, that's what they were doing, was baiting and trail cameraing and doing that sort. They never tried to spot and stalk a buck with their bow. Well, didn't that come up a couple of different times where a guy's trying to spot and stalk him? What do I do next? It's like, what am I doing? Oh, yeah. And when it was there, I think about, that's kind of one of the regrets I have. There's a deer that I never did kill that I'll regret the rest of my life. And I look back and this is how stupid it was because that was a method and it could be such a good method.

I was literally, instead of finding myself spotting and stalking, trying to glass, figuring out a buck's routine, I was figuring out where to put apples to get in front of him. Yeah. Dead serious. And it was like how much I wasted that time because there was already seven apple piles out there. Like I was walking past the apple pile and you're trying to figure out, I'm like, who is the sweetest? Yeah. And like, it makes me so angry. How expensive do I go? What does this buck's taste? Caramel. Caramel apples. Did anybody ever try that? You caramel them. No. Caramel. It would be amazing. Probably choke on the stick though. Then you'd be liable for dead deer. And I would have ate them all before they hit the ground. Let's be honest. But that, just that, you know, I think a lot of other guys were in that same area trying to bait deer to them. And I think, and I was, I was trying to do this.

I was doing a mix, you know, I was trying to beat them to their apple pile, essentially, you know, get an apple pile between theirs and where the deer was feeding from. And if I would have just went and hunted the deer, probably would have had a lot better chance of killing them rather than doing something like that. That's a good one. I don't know. But to be fair, don't beat yourself up too bad. Like in Bronson, you and I, we've hunted a bit together when we were younger. And it's just, you know, we hunt different now. If I could take today's me and wisdom and put it in my youth body and the, and, and the opportunities we had when we were youth, I mean, geez, look out. Well, and at that time too, that's another big regret. At that time, I felt like this was the new standard because the thing was, there were

certain things that kind of, whether it was a five day hunt, but it was also like El Nino stuff. We had a ton of deer. So you're looking in the back at 15, 16, 17, we had a pile of deer that were coming up. So there's deer everywhere. A lot of good bucks. Tags were relatively low. They were in the process of going up. So they weren't high just yet. So there were, there was a significant amount of opportunity, especially on general season units, a deer that should never probably ever live on a general season unit. And I thought this was the new standard. I thought, this is, this is all I ever need to do. I can hunt my Utah every year for dedicated and I got more than I can ever do. I'm going to rewrite the record. I could sit there in glass across to the Poncegant unit. And I thought, I never even need to apply there because I'm right here on this side and

I can hunt deer right here that I would kill over there in the day of the week. So you didn't even apply for limited entry. And I could, I was getting elk points or whatever, you know, but I was, I was looking over here and thinking, man, I can do this here every year. And, and I felt like that was going to last and all of a sudden 2018 rolls around and deer start dying left and right. And here we are now. I would give body parts to go back and hunt. Which body parts? Left ones? Right ones? Ears, noses, whatever. Certain digits. But I would, I would look back to just even see some of those deer that we were hunting right then and there at that time. And I thought it was going to be the standard. Had I known what it is now, um, I would have hunted a lot harder. Also at the same time you have dedicated hunter and I always felt like some, the dedicated

hunter is awesome, but you also feel like, oh, I've got the muzzleloader hunt. So I didn't put it all into the archery hunt. Well, I got the early rifle hunt. I got the late rifle hunt. So I didn't put it all into the muzzleloader hunt, that kind of thing. I left a lot of stuff on the table, I guess is my regret. I think too, it's like, I had a guy the other day tell me, well, I want to hunt South, uh, West Colorado because it's closest to me and I can hit it more regular and I want to hunt it pretty regular. And I know it's a little easier to draw and I don't want to drive through good country to get to good country further away. And I have the same thing. I would leave Southern Utah on good years general because it was an easy tag to get. I didn't put any value in it. Jason and I are both in our, we've had, we have a lifetime license and I, I'm guilty of that.

A lot of years you think it's more appealing. It's a more appealing, more coveted tag just cause it's in a neighboring state. And it took two or three years where I get this one every year. And it wasn't, we didn't value it as much. Some years, a lot of years we didn't hunt. Yeah. Most years. Yeah. Just because we filled our schedule with Colorado or other stuff. And then, you know, different periods of your life, especially when our kids were younger and all that and different, you know, educational slash, you know, career, job, whatever time was maybe a little bit more limiting and there, the general season was, was what was left over. And if there's no days, all right, you didn't hunt it. Yeah. Speaking of lifetime licenses, that's one of my regrets. Not getting one of those. Did you have the conscious decision though? Yeah. I mean, I was, I was a kid. I could have done it, you know.

Happened when I was 19. I was, I was out of the country. I was on a mission. I remember getting a letter from my dad. And it was already, it was already too late. Son, do you want me to get you a lifetime? Because it was a 10 day lag in the mail back then. There's no email. There's no FaceTime. It was like, they're going to end doing these. Do you want me to do this? And I remember the date he said in there had already passed. And I'm like, oh, I hope he did that. Yeah. Yes. Verbally just said that. Well, and they did, you know, him and my dad and Aaron all did it. And geez, at the time he just thought it was okay. Yeah. It was more of the value of, it was more of the value of the, it included the hunting license, fishing, birds, upland, all this. And you were like, hey, is that the value of what am I going to spend? You never, it wasn't that it was going to guarantee you a deer tag. No.

In your mind. It was guaranteed already. And in your mind, guaranteed deer tags were never going away. Yeah. You couldn't even see the future that they would go away. So now the value is you get a guaranteed deer tag. It's not about the money. Yeah. It's not about the money. Right. Back then it was like, is this a good value money wise? Am I going to live long enough to cash in, cash in, let's make sure this $500 was worth it. Turns into 2000. Right. Now it's the deer tag. The fact that you get a deer tag, that's the value. And you can't even see that. You can't even see that. Wyatt, you're quiet. You're thinking about all the book heads you've let go. Because it was on the walls of clients that you should have been yours. What are you thinking? Oh, I just had a lot of fun hunting and guiding, but that's kind of where I learned how to hunt or hunt through the guiding world.

So, I mean, I can't say I necessarily regret taking all those years and putting them towards clients' hills. Yeah. That's the way I guided a lot in Nevada and it taught me. I wanted to guide somewhere where I could get tags after it was all over. Hoping that I wasn't going to just guide forever. You know what I mean? Thinking that was a supplement to our income. And I never was full time. It was a supplement to the income. That's very similar to what Devin did too. Now he's capitalizing up there on all his knowledge in Nevada. Oh, yeah. Two for two. So, any three for three. A couple little canyons I've killed with clients and myself. Multiple, multiple bucks. Like four, five, six bucks. Wow. Me and Wyatt were talking this morning about when we were kids. And like, I remember telling my dad, like, we need to apply in this limited entry. You know? And he's just like, why would we do that?

We have a place to go. You know, we can all go together. Luckily, he did. You know, we did it. Or I did it. And, yeah, I'm probably two or three years behind what I should be. Wyatt gave us a good story this morning about why he was at one point shy of what he should be. We look at the date of when we could have applied and how many points we have. And he's down a year and I'm down like two or three. You mean like when you turned 12 or 14 back then? Yeah. Back then, yeah. Bad grades, high school. Dad did not apply me. Are you crapping me? One year and he'll pay for it today. What a good dad. Probably the worst thing he could have done to a kid. That's why, Vaughn R., that's why he was such a good student in college. I mean, stuck with him all those years. All those years. Yeah, all those years. He was very focused in college, wasn't he, Devin? Those eight years we worked so hard.

Trying to get that point back. Getting that PhD. Getting that point back, yeah. Were you at about the PhD longevity is about eight years? Yeah, it didn't work out for us. Dr. Bowls? I didn't know you were a PhD. Dr. Devin? Yeah. Here we are. Here we are talking about regrets. But it's deviating from the hunting world. It's when you're a little kid. Like, you don't know. It's like your return on investment when you're talking about those. You have no idea what that return will be. And I remember being a little kid with my dad. And we'd go up, and it was in any bull unit. And we'd go up there for fun during the bow hunt. We never saw a soul. We're calling in bulls for like 20 yards. You know, I don't have a bow. My dad's never shot a bow. But looking back, it's like, man, instead of spending all my money on a rifle, if I would have just got a bow, it would have been a whole different deal.

I mean, it was awesome, you know. And there's nobody. And we need another podcast that's the opposite of regrets because we've had a good life. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Very, very true. We can talk about things we're glad we did, of course. We should be another one. Yeah. One of my biggest ones, you mentioned yours earlier, was the Wyoming sheep. I regret that. It was just a timing thing. It's not that I wasn't aware. It was just that when you're in college and you start having kids, brand new marriage, start having kids, like you said, food and bills from first. You're justifying every dime. The exits, the family budget. Yeah, and didn't have a clear concept of a 75-25 split and run some math and to see, okay, in 20 years you're going to have a guaranteed Rocky tag if you just start. You know, I wasn't even thinking of that.

Same thing, Arizona, back then, you used to have to do everything on paper. You had to send a check in. It used to be for the permit fees. You know, use credit card checks. We both talked about doing that over the years, and that's basically a cashed- And, you know, credit card checks, they were like, when I look at them in the mail, they didn't even look, like, they look fake. You know what I mean? Like, this is play money, you know? And it was like, and they worked. Like, you would, if you read it, yeah, if you wrote it out, it actually cashed. But they didn't let you put in the credit card in Arizona and some other states. Montana, remember, Montana, you used to have to get a cashier's check to put in for sheep, moose, or goat, or money on her. You couldn't write a personal. I mean, so I'm a couple points behind in Arizona, and it's for that reason.

It was the same exact era that you're just timing. And then within two, three years, I'm freeing up a little bit, and then you start applying, and then five years later, you're like, oh, those two, three years later didn't get started were a big difference. Big difference. And so guys that are wondering if I should start now, yes, absolutely start now. I love all these other people. There's some other, you know, influencers out there, whatever. Not necessarily social media, just in general, that they're saying, you know, the draws aren't really worth it, and this, that, and the other. It's just not. What's your option for, let's say, 80%, 90% of people out there that can't just go buy every single tag they want? Save your money. You can afford a $2,000 hunt. Well, that $2,000 hunt in three to four years will be $4,000.

The way things are going and the inflation and all the demand, even if it's available. You can't just buy every hunt you want. What are you doing if you say that and say, save your money for 20 years? Okay. You're, you're, you know, 200 bucks a year in Arizona, 10, 10 years, there's two grand, right? What's that going to do? So does that mean you don't hunt for the next 10 years because you're only saving that two grand to go on what, what hunt could you, you couldn't go on a guided title hunt in 10 years for two grand? You can't probably right now. I don't think so. So that's my, that's, and I think that's our point is that it's those same points. Utah, you can get a dedicated hunt, a dedicated general, call it a general deer, but dedicated point, general deer point, limited entry deer point. And you can hunt dedicated or general while you're waiting for some.

Every two to five years, even for non-residents, that's a pretty, pretty normal interval. And you've got other states that you have other stuff in a two to five year interval. So you're doing, having to do something. Yeah. You have to do more with less. We've talked about that. You can't just wait for limited entry tags to fill your schedule. You can't, but there are some things we don't even, well, I did it last year. I got a second choice tag in Colorado for deer and turned it back and got my money back. Sarah gave me a point. So it didn't matter, but at least it gave me a guaranteed opportunity to hunt deer through the draw system, which everybody, there's people out there saying, don't apply, don't apply anymore. It doesn't make any sense. You know, it's just not reality. And you never know. We're talking about changes.

And sometimes I feel like we talk about changes are all bad, but you never know when a state could go from a preference to a bonus or something. And you might be glad when you draw a tag with six points that you never would have had the chance to before. So having six points may be the best decision you ever made. And yeah, you don't know what changes are coming in the future. Points give you options. Yeah. It just gives you options. Yeah. They open doors everywhere. That's right. Weird stuff. We've all drawn weird stuff. Use points on them. That I thought I'd never, I thought I've used points I thought I'd never even use. Yeah. But you had them. I initially thought this is a total waste. Yeah. And it wasn't. You're elk a couple years in Colorado. There's an example. Wyoming antelope. Whatever. Like whoever. Yeah. Whoever thought antelope meat was as good as it is.

Feed my family every three days with that stuff. So Wyatt got off without talking about real regrets because he deflected to Devin or something. Do you have any other? I brought up the one right there. Bad grades early on in life. We were talking about it this morning. I did not know. But that's a regret of not getting the grade. Okay. Anything else? You want me to go back to Colorado? No. He would deflect to me. I know you deflected to Devin. I mean, I'm cold. He owned it. He got bad grades. So he got punished one year. He was on the timeout bench. Any tags you didn't do justice you wish you could take back or do again. Any do-overs. That's a whole different conversation. Is it? Oh, yeah. Hold on. Let's let that. A lot of it is what John said, though, the other day about after his hunt in New Mexico.

If he knew, I'm going to sit water now and kill a bull that are coming in and not think, oh, the rut's going to build in a week or 10 days. And it's going to be awesome the last five days. And that didn't happen. A lot of it you don't know until the hunt plays out. My Nevada elk hunt a year or two ago, I've had Wyoming elk hunts, you know, that way. You also got to learn a unit by hunting it the first time. And if you could then rewind and go hunt it again. Which we've talked about. You can't really count that as a regret. It's just you wish you could gain the experience some other way. But you have to go through the trenches. You've got to learn a unit by hunting it once. We've done that many times. Try new units and wish you could take it back. You can't get back very soon is probably. Yeah. Why it's thinking. I have one that maybe. That's why it's like, what is there to say?

Why it has no other regrets. I have regrets. There is one 240 buck that I probably should have used my points and hunted instead of killing with the governor's tag. There is that one deer. But you have already a net non-typical buck in the books. So you don't need two. But two would have been awesome.

John. But yeah, I have one that maybe somebody can learn something from, especially like younger hunters. But I had a man, a buddy had a unit 63 tag in Colorado. And it was a nine day season. We hunted. I remember this. Seven days. Is this where you took the video clip? Yes. The private land. Trespassers will be shot. Oh, this wasn't the first time you went there. No, it was the second time. And sent a picture to me and Jason. And like, I passed this buck. And we're like, what are you thinking? Yeah. Remember that 190 buck? I totally remember. 190. Four point. Probably. Maybe bigger. Okay. But you should regret that buck. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Continue. Like if that buck lived in 66 last year. John, let us remind you of all your regrets you should have. That should be the picture. What about that work time? Dig that picture up. Exactly. That picture should be the picture of this podcast.

It's true. It's a wild buck. It's a wild buck. Yeah. Anyway. John. You remember that? I totally remember. I let this buck know it was opening day. And being the armchair warriors and judges that we are. It was that era Devin's talking about, though. It was maybe 2005 and 2009. Well, it was back when they were regular. It was incredible in Colorado. It was a regular occurrence. Yeah. Anyway. The second time, though. So the second time, it was rough. It was a rough, rough hunt. Besides on private, where we filmed numerous. Copious amounts of bucks. From the public side. From the public side. Let's be honest. Yes. Yeah. I mean. Somebody's going to say that you were a trespasser. No. Just a deer knew where the private was. And they just stayed there. So anyway. Over those. Oh. First five days. We didn't see a four point. We saw a couple of two points. I mean. It was rough, rough. And then.

Just by chance. We. Anyway. My buddy killed a mid-190s buck. And. Awesome deer. And. After he killed it. He was ready to go. You know. Because it was such a brutal hunt. And. I left. We left two days early. Third season. Best two days of the last days. I. I. I regret not. Sticking it out. Even though it was bad. You just never know. And then one deer. Happened. But. Yeah. You just rationalized. That won't happen again. I'm. Right. Burned out. Let's go. We. We struck gold. One time. Two's not going to happen. And so. And. And yeah. When. When. One guy's ready to go. And. You're kind of like. Oh. Okay. Let's pack it up. So. We left two days early. So. One thing about hunting. The worst hunt of your lifetime. Could. Make a drastic turn. In a matter of seconds. Yeah. Yeah. It's one. One giant away. Yeah. From being the best hunt of your life. And sometimes the mental. Part of. Of hunting.

When it's tough. Is. Harder than the physical part. You know. Sticking it out. Almost all cases. It feels like that. Yeah. Some of those elk hunts. I've got. Nevada. Arch. You were there. You were in Arizona last year. Great hunt. But man. You're. You're. A split second. From hunting. Maybe two days. And killing a giant bull. Or how about like. Versus hunting 12 days. One step. Or. Yeah. Yeah. Another one step. Or another one step. Or one second. Especially with a bow. Or in my case. A right turn. You know. Around the road. What's that story? No. I'm just saying. You never know what's around the next corner. When you're driving roads. Oh. That's true. But what story are we talking about? Is there a specific? No. Specific story. What brought it up? Just saying that you guys are talking one step at a time. Me. I'm usually in the truck. Oh. Slow roll in the pines. Wyatt's not hiking. What?

Slow roll in the pines. If you have the cruise on 10 miles an hour versus seven. You're going to miss stuff. Is what you're saying. Yeah. You easily could. Yeah. Or how about my regret being out in the desert. When really I should have been with you. Slow roll in the pines. It worked out for us last year. Yeah. Well. Don't admit any. All those are tough hunts. Wyatt. Cruise control doesn't go low enough for his truck. That's one thing that ticks me off. I was in the back of his truck the other day sitting down. I noticed there was like this brick with duct tape and a big bungee cord on it. Wyatt. What's this brick for? And he's like, that's a seven mile an hour brick. That's a 10 mile an hour brick. He has different weights. Is that true? No. It's not true. He's ready to buy some bricks. Jason's like, that's a heck of a nice guy. He's calibrated. Yeah. It does bother me.

I think cruise control should go a little bit lower. I've tried it a lot of times. There's some times you just. Four miles an hour. Yeah. It's got a little heavier brick, a little lighter brick, depending on the mile an hour. What that allows you to do is just stand out on your running board and just hold the, all you hold is the steering wheel and you can get a little higher vision, right? Go like those old farmers. Why don't we have high racks in the U.S.? Seriously. I've been wondering. Like, you can drive roads. Have you? Where? You can't shoot off them, though. No, you can't shoot. No, you can't. But, but. But. In the U.S. Oak brush. Oak brush unit. Let's say Ponce or Kyabab or whatever. Wouldn't a high rack be kind of cool? Just for, just for class. Yeah. Then you're going to have to climb down. You're going to get decapitated by limbs most of the time on those trees. Yeah. But.

Well, I mean. I've seen plenty of. I've seen plenty of couches in the beds of trucks. Oh, yeah. That's Utah. We call them guys with arrows knocked out. And I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. I saw one last year right here on Top of the Teter Mountain. Yeah. Beaver Mountain. Yes. That's pretty notorious. We called those the Texas tree stands. And I'm sorry for Texans. But that's. We were in. That we're close to Texas. We had a lot of guys. There were some. Bring their tactics up. You can high rack probably in Texas. Back in the day. Back in the day. There were some portable batteries and spotlights and ground blinds. Out in some of the western country.

I don't know. I wouldn't know about that. Oh, come on. No, I don't know. I don't either, personally. I don't. But. There were some crazy tactics back in the day. Not all Texans hunt from couches. I just want to say that. Just before. Sometimes they're lit up. Sometimes they're a hard chair. Big tall bar stool. Bar stools are common. Welded to the bed of your truck so it can't tip over.

Well. All right. Well. Hey. What else? Gen Z. Do you have any regrets? What's a regret in the hunting world? We got a. Anything. Oh, man. We know you're younger, but just in the, what, 10 years or so that you've been able to hunt? Probably. 10 years or so that you've been alive? No. Yeah. No, listen to all you guys talk. I don't know that I'm old enough to have realized the mistakes I made yet. Oh. That's a good perspective. I'm sure I've made plenty, but just hasn't quite hit yet. One thing. You're just chalking everything up to bad luck. Yeah. Exactly. Now, one thing that comes to mind is I think I relied a little bit too much on, you know, dad's gear. When I was in high school, I should have accumulated more because now I'm out on my own trying to do my own hunts. And, you know, dad's gear isn't always there anymore. Yeah. Dad wants dad's gear. Dad wants dad's gear.

Dad sold a lot of dad's gear. So, he doesn't have as much extra. Should have bought dad's second hand gear for dad. See? And so, just accumulating a little bit as I went along instead of now, all of a sudden, I want to hunt a little bit more seriously. Trying to buy gun, bow, binoculars, spotting scope pack. We try and help you every day, Logan. I appreciate that. We always try and help you buy new stuff. Biden gives you kids money for doing nothing. I know. Well, he doesn't anymore. I mean, if you act like you're going to college, you're getting money. I think we're all out of money because I haven't seen any of that yet. Yeah, I don't know. That's the only regret that comes to mind. I haven't put in much for Nevada yet. I probably should start doing that sooner rather than later, I think. Well, you're going to live right here. Yeah. I think that's important. We need air.

We do this every day with people. We develop short-term, long-term application strategies. Is that what we do? That's what we do. We'll be able to help you. That's what we do, Gen Z. We got you. Yeah, I remember when he came out the other day with how good of a child I guess he was. He must have got a lot better grades than Wyatt. The points he has accumulated for a certain state and species there. It's true. Arizona elk, it's pretty legit. Oh, really? Like, your father must love you a little bit. I would say not to talk about my dad too much on a podcast, but he did make me promise that if this ever came up, I had to shout him out because he was very good at making sure I got points when I was a younger kid. And he didn't have the same rules that Wyatt's dad did. I had some bad grades sometime and I still went in the hat. He was just grateful you were still going to school. I know.

Dads in our era were mean. Those are participation points. At least you went points only or something. If I was one minute late from a date, I had a problem. Took me right out of the drawing. He could have done points only. Maybe have a sit down. Well, it might be why you're such a good guy right now. There's a lot of guys downtown that think you're a good guy. Well, in 20 years, I've never heard that story told today. So you're not that bitter about it. Maybe it's just so bitter that I hold it close to my heart. Yeah, we had kind of a moment this morning. Got a little emotional. Wow. I figured it is. One more point. Okay. Hypothetically, if you had one more point this year, Wyatt, what are you doing with that? Because we can't talk with you about real life with what your current points are. But hypothetically, with one more point, would you hunt dearer than Utah this year?

No, I'll never make it to the max point holder in the state if I use those points. That's his end goal. He doesn't care about hunting. He just wants to be the last guy on the top of the mountain. Okay, well. Just want to be that one guy. Hey, I've tried. I try every angle to get Wyatt to divulge what he would do. So even hypothetical scenarios don't work. He's not taking the bait. No, he's not. He's so diplomatic. He'd be a good politician. He'd be the top guy, then they'll go to a lottery system. Baiting's off limits even with Wyatt. Go point squared on me. Can't even bait him into the subject. He's too good. He's too coy. He is. Not going to outsmart.

All right. Well, Logan, is there any advice you would give to kids even younger than you? Even younger than me? Steal your dad's gear. Steal your dad's gear. Put aside some money and buy some stuff of your own. It's hard. That's deep. Getting a job, a good-paying job, it's hard. It is tough. I don't know. Like, pulling weeds nowadays. They won't even do it, John. It's like $15 an hour. Really? They won't even do it. Yeah. And they still go offer somebody $15 an hour. Yeah, they won't do it. Yeah. I mean, at one time I was managing, you know, the HOA complex and all the maintenance and the yards and all that stuff. And, yeah, we couldn't get kids to even pull weeds for $15 an hour. So, yeah. Yeah. And they're still a part of my brain when I hear that. They're like, I'll do it. You know. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I had to do it for nothing. We worked so many jobs. I had to do it for nothing.

I had to do it for nothing. Before I had a baseball game. Like, we've got to get this done before your game. And I'm like, oh, I don't want to miss my baseball game.

That's all right. Let's date ourselves. Ultimate. You know, there were hard ultimatums. Oh, yeah. Our dads were mean. Get it done or you don't. There was no 911 in our day. I didn't even look at them as mean. You just didn't know the dispatch number. It was just normal. To get paid to do that? That would have been something. I remember being so stoked to get on my Huffy and ride into town. I loved my Huffy. And ride into town. Because we lived. It felt like it was 10 miles out of town. You might as well say, tell people what a Huffy is. That's a bicycle. Had front and back pegs. I could take my friends if I needed it. Do tricks. Yeah. I could do a couple tricks. But it felt like 10 miles riding into town. It was probably like six blocks from where we lived. But to ride into town, I got very lucky. I was working for a taxidermist. This was my first job.

I thought I was so high on the hog making $4 an hour. Oh, yeah. Scraping stinky flesh. I had a paper route with the baskets in the back. And I wore it over my shoulders. Front and back. Loaded with newspapers and newspapers in the front. Because I had lots of clients. And I was proud of it. And I was riding. I don't know what brand it was. Kids probably didn't realize that. Was that here? Did it have gears? Moab. Moab. What was it? Papercloth. I don't remember. It paid the bills, though. Paperboy. I had rubber bands. I was good with a rubber band. I mean, I was good with a rubber band. You shoot birds with rubber bands off your bike moving. Whatever. I think I started around $4, too, Josh. But I was busting tires. Old. I worked at a retread plant. And so used tires would come in and I'd unload them from, you know, a semi truck. Those would get you in shape.

Probably if you're a dating agent, it'd probably bulk you up a little bit. You're like. I mean, it was like child labor. I think I was 11. Speaking of child labor, I developed a business making suckers and sold them in school. And I put my sisters to work. Hourly wage. Is that because they had better handwriting than you on the label? No. Pineapple flavor? I didn't want to be over the hot stove. Go to. We need suckers for tomorrow. It was good for everybody. Remember that era of our childhood. Everybody's making those homemade suckers. Yeah. Those little cookie-like. Well, they were cookie cutter. Stick, pour, you know, boiling, temperature. I mean, all that. Taught you that in home ec. I never learned anything about making suckers. My life. You could burn them easy. How about those friends that had their homemade pop machines?

Did you guys have friends that had those that had the things that would carbonate the water and then you'd go to their house? Yeah. Well, our parents didn't buy. Pop was a luxury. I mean, we had it, but not. McDonald's burger at a dollar was a luxury. Yeah, I mean. But I had a couple friends that had their homemade pop machine. It would carbonate the water and you put the flavoring in there. It was like so awesome. It was like lemon lime pop. That's a Sprite. So you made it to their house. Anyway, right after you got done playing Atari. I remember Atari. I liked Atari.

All right. What a good day. Okay. That dates us pretty good. All right. Don't regret anything. That's how you should live your hunting life. Or in regular life. You can't buy time. You can buy your points and it's hard to do it at times, but then when you look back, I wish I could buy the points for those years I didn't. And you just can't buy that back. But I think for high school kids now, if they stopped playing or, you know, looking at social media for two hours a day or one hour a day, they'd have a little extra money. I mean, $15 an hour. You could buy your own gear and stuff. I don't need it though, John. You just don't need it nowadays. I guess make sure your parents or whoever's applying you, if you're a high school aged kid, make sure you're at least maximizing in your own state what you're applying for. Because I will go back and look at my draw history.

And I'm like, just like Devin, like we put in for antelope one year and then deer the next year. And then I'd wait six years and have a gap. You know, it was like, what were we thinking? You know, you just didn't know. So make sure you're maximizing your own state, start in your own state and maximize all your opportunities there so you can hunt. And then if you can't, because I remember what it's like to be a kid, then you're trying to start a family or going to college or something like that with Logan. Even if, pick one state that is close to you that you can drive to and that has a reasonable chance that at some point you're going to be able to use those points or something. Even if it's one, just start, like I said, maximize your own state and then maximize the next closest state to you that makes sense and start there. So don't, because I do, it is overwhelming.

Can't start eight of them or 10 of them at one year. Yeah, don't do all that. You usually can't. But I remember getting Oregon regulations at my dorm in college. Like, Oregon? Yeah. Like, I just had a thirst for it. I'm lucky I only had to deal with that for three years.

Gave me a sheep tag the third year and I said, I'm out. Adios.

I've had a handful of buddies just in the last little bit talk to me about what they just start applying for, for their once in a lifetime species. Kids I went to school with. That just do deer elk there for 20 years, you mean? Yeah. It's a little late. And you've already had a goat tag, right? In Utah? Yeah. Because you started a plan back then. Oh, that reminds me of another regret. Let's have it real quick. Oh, I think I know what it is. Let's just say every person in the Archibald clan, all my brothers, my dad, guess what we chose as our once in a lifetime? Swamp donkeys? Swamp donkeys. All of us. Hey. I like it. He wants one. Oh, yeah. I mean, you'd think we'd mix it up. Like, hey, why don't you do goat and I'll do sheep. No. We did moose. And you have what in your house? I have four brothers. I just saw a picture of it last night in your basement on your Instagram.

I have three brothers. This 65, 6, what is it? 65. The last of Yukon? It's bigger than any moose you're getting to. Did you post something on Instagram? I actually did. I missed it. You got a new addition to the family. You want to tell everybody about what you brought home? Just a velvet buck from last year. Archery. Put him on the wall with the others. I always would word that to my wife. Hey, I got a new addition to the family. I'm bringing it home. I killed all. What are you talking about? I just wait until I have to work. She thought it was going to be a dog or something. No, just a finished head. Dead animal. Smith is forever. You don't have to feed it or take care of it. There's four bucks in that room that have came from like maybe a quarter mile circle. Four? So I put them all together there. Four of them. Jeez. That's awesome. Yeah, I haven't seen it. There's four of them.

I didn't show the other ones. Heart antler buck? No, it's a velvet buck. Anyway, I'm just, you've got a giant moose. Yeah, your perspective changes. You started on moose at some point. You kind of lived in central to northern Utah, near moose, mountain goats. Well, and when I'm 13 years old, when I think of a moose, that's what I envision. You envision? Yeah. Yeah, in Utah. 65 inches. Yeah, that's what I envision. And, you know, lucky to break 40. Yeah, you're not going to see one like that in Utah. No, it's just not going to happen. Yeah, but you're right. It's those decisions when you're young and that. And I'm lucky I grew up in southern Utah. You don't know it until it's. And Jason too. Jason and Moab, me and Monticello, we had desert sheep by us. That's what we had down there. Yeah. And it's what your dad took you to see. And luckily I got started on that. Yeah.

Because then we both killed one. Another one of mine might be applying for mountain goats, though. I killed a nice goat, but that's one I could write a check for right now as opposed to a desert sheep. If you can buy a goat, it's hard to buy a sheep of some sort. That's true. Make good choices. And if you don't, if you can't, if you're not capable of making good choices, call us. We'll help you make good choices. Do everything. And I think like what Josh, you were saying, like look at your priorities, applying for points, if it really means, if hunting means something to you. You know, make that a priority and go without something else in your life as a kid or a newlywed. That's right. We've had to do that. And I, you know, I remember my first couple of sheep hunts I went on. I mean, I needed new trucks. I drove a Ford Ranger for 87 Ford Ranger. I remember the truck. For way too long.

I remember you hunted out. Oh. So. 114, 115. That was like 2005. Yeah. That wasn't that long ago. But, but bet on, as you're, as you're thinking about these things, bet on yourself that you're going to work your guts out as you're 20, 25, 30, 35 and progress in life. You're going to, you're bet on yourself that you're going to, going to achieve in whatever occupation and field you're going to do. And that money usually gets easier to come by in the near future. Your spendable income will increase and it will change. It's hard to think that it will when you're in the, you know, paycheck to paycheck period because we've all have to live through it. But, but add one at a time. Add the ones that make sense that are close to you that make sense and add, add as fast as you can without jeopardizing obviously family and those things. Because we've just talked about it.

We, I had, I had sheep tags. Yeah. Yeah. Deer tag in Arizona, sheep tag in Wyoming. Things that I could have had if I would have been able to do it. You just can't always. But when you can, don't wait. And make the plans. At least two points only. And don't make your kids, if they get bad grades, buy them a point on the side but don't tell them. Tell them you set them out but don't. At least get them a point. Good advice. Yeah. Have as least amount of regrets as humanly possible. Yeah. Get participation points like Logan got.

Because kids get participation points these days. We're just glad kids go to school right now. Still get a point. Back in our day, it was, are you going to school? Were you respectful? And did you get straight A's? And where did that A minus come from?

It was a tough, tough era. Not going to lie. All right, guys. Are we good? Yep. Good. All right. Good. Thank you.