EP 273: State of the Mule Deer Address, Talkin' Utah, Colorado and Wyoming Muleys with Zach Key

Anything to do with Western Big Game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, and Logan, just us three, coming at you from southern Utah with about freaking eight inches of snow in the parking lot. It's April 4th, everybody. Just won't stop. It keeps coming. I think we're going to try to fill Lake Powell in one year. Hey, I'm all about it. That's the world's greatest lake. It is. Ever. It's amazing. And it's going to be nice to have it more than a puddle. Yeah. You know, I don't know how, it's going to come up a lot. One year, no, I'm joking, but like good grief. We spread this out over the last five years. Where's it been? Where's it been? And with our luck, Pete, they're going to probably let more water out and still keep it low. You know what I mean? Just, I don't know. Kind of, I guess that whole, I don't really want to dive into Utah yet, but it feels like

that, you know, get a little bit of something and then they want to crush it again. And that's what it feels like water and Lake Powell. How do I, how do I bring up water and Lake Powell and deer tags in Utah? But anyway, hey, whatever. Maybe I'll let you run with that one for a minute. Maybe a mule deer can swim. I don't know where he's going with that. But you get a little bright hope out here in Southern Utah with what? We have abnormal fawn. I don't know. I want to call it retention, but there's a lot of fawns living. Yeah. They had a big fawn year, you know, where they fawn June, July, June. Yeah. Monsoon was incredible. Have a great survival going into the winter. Healthy fatties. Yes. And anticipating a bunch of fawns. And so I guess we're going to increase tags just for two points. I know. It's so hard.

But, and what it is, so, so everybody, we've had some, Utah just came out with their permit recommendations for all species. And so we're just, we just looked at them for a brief second before jumping into the podcast room. We'll give us a day or two and we'll probably do some more. Yeah. But anyway, I guess it's just on the brain and you have one little glimmer of hope and Northern Utah, there is no hope. We totally understand that. Yeah. And just this storm that just came through and dumped two, three, four feet up there. And another 18 inches and two feet across the ground. Just to cover the dead bodies. What did you? Just to cover the dead bodies. Well, you got 18 to 24 in Evanston. And then Casper, we saw. Casper was 27 inches. In one day. All the night, right? It broke the single day record. Well, since 1937. It's the most snowing one.

That's what Cowboy Gazette said or whatever it is up there. 27 inches at the end of winter is not a good end to the winter. It's supposed to be. It means it's not an end. My trees were budding out. What does this mean? Does snow like insulate them so it doesn't freeze them? You're fine. You think? Yeah. Little buds. Little tiny buds. Yeah, they're not. But if it freezes after this weekend. They got to be blossomed. They got to be opened. So Bronson, I want you to open up your weather app. I want you to open up the weather app and read the temperatures and weather report for the next 10 days here in southern Utah. Roughly. You were showing it to me earlier today. And it's kind of crazy. Yeah. It is going to be tonight. They're not butted out. So I'm not. Mine was just starting. I'll just. Okay. Well, the next three days are 16, 15, and 18 at night. So they're torched.

If they really came out, they're done. Well, they didn't come out, come out. Okay. You could just see it. Okay. Yes. Then starting Friday on, we are warming for a week. We're kicking it up to 67. 60s to upper 60s for the next six days. I remember a few days ago we looked at it. It was like 73 is a high. They've scaled it back a little bit. But there's warm around the horizon, and I think that's probably in a lot of different places. But anyway. May have some flooding here in our hometown. Who knows? There's a lot of water to come off that mountain. All over Colorado, northern Utah. I mean, we've kept pushing winter later, later, later, later, and then it's got to come off some point. So it's going to be interesting. I don't know. I'm staying on high ground. I know that. So there's a lot going on in the back of our mind here. A, we just talked about Wyoming. We're worried.

They were talking about the report of 150 antelope in the town of Evanston. Dying against some. Died. Fence. Just trying to huddle out of the wind. Walmart parking lot or something. I don't know exactly. I hate to quote it all because I don't know. Around one of those illegal firework stands. Wyatt never misses a thing. And he's the one that told us about it. So if he said it, it's true. And we invited him in here today. So we can crush him. And he declined because it is Colorado deadline day. Tease him a little. We said, you know what happens if you decline and say you need to take care of some projects. You're not there to defend yourself. But we've had an awesome nickname for Wyatt in the past. But he hates it. But it's true. It is true. And I think it's accurate. And I think it's endearing. Yeah. So go ahead. Well, we called him Starbucks. But he doesn't like that.

And that's just kind of a 21st century version of the coffee shop talk, right? Starbucks. He's, it's honestly, it's a. He doesn't like it. No, but I think it's, I think it speaks volumes to. He's got a pulse. He has a pulse on everything. And we think we know something. We don't know anything. He's got pipelines where I don't know pipelines exist. He can find out. He's got an amazing, honestly, to speak to his credit, he has an amazing mind and memory. I mean, I'll watch his face. And he doesn't know him. Like, I'm watching his face because my office stares into his office and your office and vice versa. And when he, when you tell him something that he doesn't, didn't know, you can see the gears turning. Like, they're just, he's, and he's processing the entirety of what you're telling him. And, and putting it in places in his mind and how that affects 14 other variables.

Another way of saying that is nothing goes in one ear and out the other with wine. No, it all goes in one ear and stays. So I don't know what he's captured inside the head, but a lot. So anyway, it's, hey, and it's. But he'll throw something out there that gets us all going on something every once in a while because it's a different angle. He's good at what he does. He, his processing information. He's good at what he does. And we're lucky to have him as part of our team. So, all right, Bronson, let's talk about a couple little things. Yeah. You know, how about this? I've been banging away with the new Fierce Rifle. Yeah. 7mm PRC. Yeah. Finally got ammo. We, we bought ammo all over the nation. Pretty much. It feels like we had to. And then when we found large amounts, copious quantities, we grabbed, what'd you grab? You did it. Well, you did. We did. We all collectively, we got.

A piece or something. Yeah. We got 12, 13 a piece. I don't know. Yeah. Cases. Same lots. Anyway, but I didn't tell you this, but I did throw some rounds out there at 1,000. Good. Kind of fun. Yeah. It's crazy. So, anyway. We did some ballistics, ran some numbers, and it's unbelievable. It's a fun cartridge, really. Well, the energy retention is stupid. The ballistic coefficient on an ELDX, a 175er is like .689 or whatever. Crazy. It flies. It maintains that path and energy. It doesn't slow down. It flies, and it doesn't really slow down, and it keeps that energy. So, pretty impressive. Fun to shoot. You know, slapped a Suaro scope on mine. You're going to slap what is ice on yours. Yeah. Just go with what I like. Yeah. It's awesome. What you know on other guns and stuff. Well, and it's what we sell here at Epic, and, man, they're incredible optics. So, anyway, pretty awesome.

A little shout-out to them. We sell those. Of course, if anybody wants one, we can get a better deal than anybody, pretty much. Also, Triple S Polaris. Appreciate them and their support here at Epic Outdoors. Super good people. If you're looking for a side-by-side, four-wheeler, I don't know. Geez, Bronson, do I dare say a sled or something like that? I don't know. They even do electric bikes down there. How about that? Generators. Stop talking. No more sled talk. Let's break this cycle. I want to throw some tracks on it. I'm thinking about, for summertime scouting, throwing tracks on my bike. For the sand. It's very winter. For the sand. No. No. No. For the snow. The snow yesterday. You said summer. Yeah. We're not going to be out of snow. Oh. On the mountain? Yes. There's going to be absolutely good drifts up on these 10,000 to 12,000 foot sun ranges that never leave. 100% never leave.

You're going to have nice camps up there and have snowball fights this July. I just want to talk theory. Do you dare talk theory as an ex-biologist in your previous life? Yeah. Theory. Not proven theory necessarily. Just theory. Oh, are you talking about? Oh, yeah. And antler growth. Four bulls in wet conditions or winter-like conditions. Extended winter. Yeah. Wet conditions are one thing. Extended winter. But this has gone on. This is crazy. This lack of spring and this continuance of winter that we're having. I honestly think that there's a better chance than not that the collective number of bulls in Utah are not going to be as off the charts as we think they're going to be antler-wise this year. That's my gut feeling. I think they are. It's going too long. And it's not just about they're worn down.

I'm not talking about northern Utah like when they have nothing to eat and they're starving and they survive and then they can only grow average alters. I'm talking about southern Utah. There's no green anywhere. Now it might come this week, but what is it? It's already the fourth. If it starts showing up the 5th, 10th, or 15th of April, okay, that's good for some bulls, but other bulls have been shed for a month. I know. And so I just think you're eating mahogany, you're eating whatever for too long. Trees. And it's not going to green up. We watch them eat trees. They do. They do. I just personally think those moderate winters, but good wet springs, elk seem to do incredible. There's going to be some drifty areas with still snow when they finish. That's my contention. Some bulls will finish July 1-ish. Yeah. Especially these desert bulls. But anyway.

But I just think maybe it's, yeah, elk, if you have three to four inches of standing green when they're shedding, watch out. There's not even that a month after they're shed this year. And then there's a lot of guys that say dry years are best elk years. You know, I don't know that we can, I don't know that we've truly quantified that comparative to wet years for deer. Deer, we know. Well, they shed earlier, but they don't grow immediately. Deer just don't. Elk shed and then two to three weeks, sometimes they got fronts and thirds going on. I mean, it's, you blink. Yeah. And deer don't grow that fast. They don't grow as fast as elk. And like you said, elk are done, big elk are done in July. Deer are sometimes growing through the end of August. Oh, yeah. End of August. Remember Bruce? He was still soft at the top. End of August. Yeah. So deer get really cranking in May, June, July, August.

You know, elk by May, by the time you're end of May hunting spring bears, they're two thirds done. Yeah. You know, by then deer just got an eye guard and a shank. You know what I mean? In the end of May, a lot of times. Kind of crazy. I think it's just different. My gut feeling is I think there's going to be too much snow to be absolutely optimal forage for growing giant bulls everywhere. There's going to be some. We're going to kill some big bulls. But collectively, I don't think it's going to be. Might be a slightly off year, potentially. I wouldn't be surprised. For Utah, not Arizona. No. We're not talking about Arizona. I'm only talking about areas where snow-capped mountains. You've got 10 to 15 feet of snow up here on these mountains. Oh, it's tough. I mean, they're not even going to walk to a summer range until, you know. Ever. You know. June. In the May, I would say. Well, no way.

No. You don't think? Heck no. How about turkeys? Are they alive? Okay. The turkey season, I think, starts this weekend. Maybe it's, isn't it this weekend? It's this weekend. It was always fun to be like the first guy because, you know, they're virgin birds. Well, yeah. They're unbothered. And that's, in Utah, we went, since we, you know, you want birds that haven't heard. Or you go on the very end. Yeah. When they're clean up. Yeah. And nobody else is out. Hens are sitting. Yeah. And toms are roaming and still wanting to have a girlfriend and lonely. Is it this weekend? Yeah, it's this weekend on the 8th. Okay. Bear season, I believe, opened last weekend in spring season. Okay? Yeah. Where would you hunt a bear right now? I don't know. Maybe polar bear. Polar bear. Find somebody with a radio collar and a tail. I don't know. Just interesting. We've been talking about it.

There's like, I don't know if there's a turkey alive where I hunt turkeys. I don't know how there could be one alive in the mountain. Bear ends. Weather is weird. Hey, let's throw out the little bear scenario you guys had. You guys, we were talking about earlier today. Which one? Well, the dry 2018. That happened, I think it was 2018-19, I think is the year it was. It was a year of real dry, dry year. Poor acorn crop, all that. And the bears went in. Bad shape. And then you had a crushing winter, and they had lost a lot of bears in the den. Radio collared bears. Because they couldn't come out and eat like they did. Yeah. Or they just, I don't know if they malnourished when they died, but they died in the den. Right. I'm not saying that's happened this year, but it just feels like. But it's just interesting how weather affects all things. All life. All life. All creatures, great and small.

Yeah. And if that lake rises, if Lake Powell rises, my life is amazing. Huh? Yeah. Logan? Yes. I'm going to be using far more vacation time than I do. Yes. Jeez. I'm planning trips. Multiple this year. I have to run that through management. Yeah. All right. Well, pretty fun stuff. I don't know. All that came from Triple S. Anyway, we appreciate them and their support. Hoyt, we appreciate their support as well. Stealth Cam Bronson. I'm getting a new bow set up right now. How about it? How about it? The new VTM 34. It's going to be awesome. Yeah. I'm getting ready. I just need some tags to go. Bobby. Bobby Fromm down there. California. He's setting it up. Going to kill it. Huh? Yeah. Go ahead and list off your archery tags. Go ahead and list off your archery tags. I don't have any yet. That's a lie. You got plans. I got maybe Colorado archery out. Maybe. That's the first one.

Other than that, I haven't decided my Utah general. There's a lot up in the air, I know. Nevada deer, I'm going all in on archery. Done. I want to be first. If you're not first, you're last. Right? I want to be there first. Tell me the last time you've been excited to be in Nevada August 10th. Tell me. It's been a while. I had a muzzleloader tag in 2019. Smashed a big deer. Yeah. And that was the last great year. Collectively great year. Great year. We've had a couple bucks here and there. But collectively, it's been off. Yeah. That was a 220 year down in the middle of nowhere. And it feels like that's going to happen again. And this is the year you take chances and you just grab a tag somewhere. You know what I mean? Yep. That's right. Feels like it. Pretty awesome. Bronson, we're stocked up on Stealth Cam. Anybody that needs one, give us a holler.

Actually, there's a lot of these, let's call them seasons, Trail Cam seasons. People like to say banned because it's such a bad word. But they're not banned. They are in Arizona. But seasons here in Nevada, Utah. I don't know. Some kind of coming out. Hummingbird watching? What could you use them for in Arizona? Bees? I don't know. A lot of bees. Time lapse on green up? I don't know. But anyway, I'm just saying that you're going to have to run double. You're going to need, I mean, we're going to cover some country. We've seen that ourselves. We live here near the Nevada line. We run cameras in Nevada, whether it be for sheep, scouting for hunters, or whether it be for deer. And in Utah. And we have to now pull them down at the same time before August 1st. And you can't afford to have a camera get spun by a cow or something like that.

Leave it for two, three weeks and come back and realize for the last two weeks you had nothing. You can't afford it. You've got to have different directions on certain cameras. When you know you have a water that's, this is key. Well, and if they're really key, you run one on video mode and one on still mode. And maybe a couple others for backup. It just feels like it when you get a special little spot because you can't afford it. You come back July 29th because you can't pull them all down in one day a lot of times in two states. You can't. So you end up from the 27th to the 31st running, you know. It's now a, in fact, I need to put my requested time leave here. That's what I was thinking. That leave. July 27th to 31st. I want to take some vacation. I want to be out. I need to be out. Me, man. But anyway, to your point. I'm going to submit that to John. See what he says. All right.

Well, yeah. To your point, though, we've had a big delivery already. We get them early. We're ready. We've got a bunch. We've got boxes. We've got cameras. Whether it be cellular. Whether it be, you know, regular SD card cameras. Whatever. You know. And the best pricing. And boxes. Some bare boxes. So anyway, keep it in mind. Bare boxes to keep people out. All right. But anyway, we want to also appreciate Under Armour, their support of us here at Epic Outdoors. UAHunt.com. We've got some discount codes. They're on our website. Those are limited in quantity. Up to $2,000. You know, you can purchase up to $2,000 worth of gear and get a significant discount. 40% off. It's unbelievable. So anything on their website. Anything. UAHunt.com. Also, EpicOutdoors.com to grab your discount code. Grab one. And I don't know. We'll be coming out with some new items here this summer.

Generally June and July. And if you want optics with the trail cameras you just mentioned, just give us a call. 435-263-0777. We usually say that at the end. But we're not ending the podcast yet. That's right. We actually got a special guest, Bronson. Do we? Yeah. We do. Who? Well, there's a resident up there in Wyoming. Oh, yes. That knows his stuff. Zach Keys. We dealt with him for a long time. How many years have we known him? A long time. Just, I don't know, 10 plus, probably. 10 years. Killed some giant animals. Giant deer one year up there that was just the biggest deer like in the state. It makes you salivate just as such a giant. Been there his whole life, I believe. Lifelong resident. It would be nice to maybe get a perspective. I know you talked to somebody today. It doesn't matter who. But I think they were from Big Piney.

Whether it be in their lifetime or for the last, let's say, 30, 40 years. Let me just, I can read it. I don't need to say who it was. Yeah. Super good friend of mine. I just want to know how long they've lived there. Lifetime? It comes from David Long. He's just, he's a good dude. And he's like, you know, my relative has lived near Big Piney since 1978. And he said, this is the worst winter he has seen. I mean, that's saying a lot. You know what I mean? For the icebox of western Wyoming. That's what that is. Yeah. They see a lot of tough, cold, winter temperatures. Crazy. Yeah. And they know, I mean, anybody that knows David, I mean, he's a deer junkie. He's killed some absolute giants. Earned them. Worked hard. Is he still going to hunt Wyoming this year? Because he's not a resident anymore. I mean, I could answer that, but I don't want to. I don't know. But yeah.

Well, I want to know what I should do, Jason. I think you should always go. Never. Hey, nothing is certain in life. I know. Let's make some memories.

Spending other guy's points right there. Are you spending your points? No. Because you are. And I'm supporting you. You want me? I'm going to watch the guinea pig go, and I will get an update daily from you. I think there's, Bronson, we've talked about this. We've talked about it. The young die and the old, old die. Yeah. The perfect age deer are healthy and strong. They're the strongest to survive. Three to, we'll call them three to five-year-old bucks, roughly. Yeah. Plus or minus. Maybe you can enter a two-year-old in there, but say three to five. There is truth to that. And then the only other thing that we get thinking about is, all right, if that's your window and they all, those that survive, there's going to be far fewer bucks, no question. But that gap that can maybe show up and be some four or five or maybe four to six-year-olds. Right. That's hopefully what you're looking for.

You want a six to nine, of course, but that's, there's very few of those even in non. They get pretty gnarly at the base, about eight. Yeah. You can't grip them tight. I love that. I love that. But the prognosis for the next two to three years, or four, is more bleak. So if it's not now, when are you going to go? And with them just giving residents over-the-counter tags at will, anybody that wants one gets one. You're entitled to one if you're a resident. And, you know, and then they want to take maybe 100 tags off of age, but for you and I and other people. So, I don't know, it just doesn't, I guess it's hard to roll with that and to manage and to help with winter die, winter kill. When you're just going ahead and continuing to let everything. This is a bottleneck. Who knows? Who knows? Maybe this is the start of the end of that process there. Maybe. Maybe. This type of winter.

It should be. Very well. It should be. If you want to recover it sooner, it should be. Yeah. If you want to recover it. Don't cut 100 non-resident tags off of age and think, we're saving the world. It's the 21st century. I just think it's, unfortunately, long gone are the days of just giving tags over the counter. To everybody that wants one. For me and these. Me and these are sensitive. Oh, let's call Zach. Let's just see what he has to say. I actually have no idea what he's going to say. He may not even answer. Well, I hope he answers. Let's just see what he says. I don't know. this is zach zach it's jason carter adam bronson on the epic outdoors podcast how are you doing good man doing good guys how are you guys you got you pushing snow this morning what are you doing we absolutely are um i'm in labarch here and we probably got about oh five or six inches

yesterday and about the same today so geez that's about like us that's about like us in cedar cedar but we know in other places up there we heard casper got like 27 last night and you know eviston 18 or something 20 but i don't know we're just you're on our minds well wyoming deer and antelope are kind of on our minds and so we've been what maybe thought we'd give you a call and get a i don't know a trophy a trophy hunter's perspective is there a is there any shred of hope zach that's what we're hoping for to hear from you but be honest be honest with your perspective being a lifelong i think a lifelong resident right there yeah yep yeah definitely a lifelong resident and uh man it's i've got a lot of mixed feelings right now i mean uh they just had a governor's meeting last week governor flew in monteith uh brian nesvick and everything else and you know at that

meeting i guess some some data points for everybody is is uh kevin monteith is is claiming that the deer uh went into this winter with about 12 percent body fat versus the the 2016-2017 hard winter where they went into that winter with eight percent so you know according to monteith studies out of the university of wyoming they actually went into the the winter with a lot more body fat than than normal because a percent of body fat's a big deal but you know i'm telling you i you know i've i live just outside of the barge and i've picked up a lot of of dead deer and and stuff out of my yard individually and i know for a fact um this is the most deer and antelope i've ever pulled out of fences along the highway in my life i mean i've you're on a regular basis trying to trying to get those guys out of

the fences and stuff and i mean i don't even know if they'll you know if they'll make it or not but you at least attempt to help them but um it's you know driving around the oil fields i work in oil and gas and driving around the oil fields on a regular basis it's it's scary i mean i a lot of deer just you know lay there and and don't wake up so it's going to be unique you know there for a minute i just kind of recommended to some of the non-residents to uh still put in because you know your your your your deer that survive the amount of forage and and uh you know the stopover areas and everything else are going to be phenomenal this year uh with new growth and stuff like that i still think that's the case uh but that was that was my perspective a couple months ago now yeah yeah now it's now it's changing so well i was telling adam adam we we talk about this pretty

regular and adam's like should i burn my points this was like it feels like two days ago or whatever and then this storm hit you know this this last storm and it just feels like man they need a break they've been needing a break and they and we get another dump you know and uh so i don't know did your has your perspective like you're saying that was your perspective a while ago is your perspective gradually changing or do you still you still have hope for big deer you know man i it's just such a i'm so on the fence with it but i i still think that if a if a non-resident you know i mean he's going to be taking a little bit of a chance i mean if he puts in in the time and effort and everything you know and is selective you know i think there's going to be some you know some opportunity there with some

some major antler growth and stuff especially if we have a you know a warm summer with a with a lot of growth um but at the same time i mean if i had to have you know 12 and 14 points and stuff and you know eight points whatever it is in in each unit i'd be i'd be having a severe questioning right now i mean i i went up to uh one of my oil field sites the other day and there was some old bruiser bucks they were laying there i mean they were big enough where they had you know five six inch pedicle uh spaces on their head and i mean all of them were just laying there with their head in the snow i mean they're just you know hips and ribs and and bones and i mean you're you just your your heart aches for them you know it's just like you you don't you know you're just we can't do anything for them and and uh it's just it's a little scary this year i'm just my opinion so well and i guess

just to look on the on the bright side we're got to spin it i mean i was looking at i've been watching your weather i keep la barge in my phone all with all year long because it's kind of the one of the the heart of some of that region gnh winter country uh just watch temperatures and anybody that watches that knows that you guys are somewhat of an icebox of western wyoming it's you guys are known for that but you guys had the you had the snow and the crusty snow for a long long time this year and it was it was apparent anybody you talked to you and other friends we have up there we're saying that same and whether it be you know mid-january and then again at the hunt expo oh it's not good and it just you need that you we needed that two to three week period that got in the mid upper 30s or 40s and just bared it off and then give them some you know give it hit a reset button

all right we got sagebrush open again and it just did it just kept we got the opposite we got cold and more storms and then this one felt like all right we're finally out of the woodwork but then you get another couple series of storms in the last week and it just feels like finishing off luckily it looks like you know you got a minus one forecasted thursday morning up there it looks like and hopefully that's the last negative we see till next fall it is april but geez i mean and then it does look like you know you know from saturday on you guys are going to be in the mid to upper 40s and you know in the 20s at night which geez that's that's a bomb that's balmy for your country so hopefully just that but but what you're dealing with is a as a long winter and like you said these deer are spent and it doesn't matter sometimes what the weather does it can't come fast enough

because they've deteriorated to such a point that you know it doesn't matter if you put good feed right in front of them right now pellets or whatever they just they can't make that switch and just start making it so what's going to happen is going to happen and it's going to be a guinea pig year people want you to forecast and so we're just we're thinking that the perfect that the healthy that almost on the young side i don't know let's call it two and a half three and a half years old to five and a half will make it and those there's going to still be some big deer taken but the oldest and obviously the youngest are gonna have a hard time but what do you think what do you think and i guess talk about it from this year versus yeah why wait in two or three years four years probably not going to be a whole lot different because you're dealing with yearling and fawns that are not going

to be recruited right very high yeah yeah and i agree with that hundred percent and then they they also i noticed the game fish in this suggested season setting stuff is talking about three points or better and and all the units around here in gnh and everything so they're talking about three point and better saving that's one thing that'll be unique and then no i agree a hundred percent with um you know i i really believe you can still harvest some some really quality quality deer you know one of the things i'm going to do when i go to the season setting meeting lander is i am going to request them to to drop the the youth um the youth doe tags and i know that you know some people are probably like oh man why is he saying that you know but i've i've got a family i've got kids and i think there's a valuable lesson in the fact that they they're taking it so hard this winter that

it's okay to you know to pause for a few years and and not do any doe harvest and and let these things have a chance to recuperate and the antelope i'll give you guys perspective most probably don't have we are out right now with uh and i don't want to use any names but an oil and gas provider right now teamed up with the game of fish and sos is actually out there um picking up antelope carcasses as we speak they they figure that out there in the green river uh green river basin there that there was probably about 1200 antelope where we are at and they they assume we're going to pick up around 600 of them and we've we've been picking up about 50 to 60 antelope carcasses a day uh and we're we're removing them from the landscape there's some there's some risk they believe of of all those get antelope playing across the landscape and and bringing in those blackbirds and those ravens and

competing with the uh the sage grouse uh nesting and eggs and all that yeah jeez yep yep but i mean we're we're you know we're doing 600 in the little spot we're at for one of the providers right now and and i'm talking that's only like a a 20th percent you know it's a 16th or 20th percent of it i mean we're not even touching anything yet i mean the antelope if i was to recommend something the antelope is where i would not that is that is the scariest because they they are not as hardy to begin with they're smally smaller body size they're not as hardy to begin with and they don't pack fat antelope run too much they burn off the fat truck chasers you know so they don't and you're talking about western wyoming further like you get downbound rollins north and south and there to the wyoming uh colorado line where it's even worse than where you're talking about in terms of

the red desert it's rough i mean it it's going to be bleak i i was telling jason this morning without with this net last week weeks of storms that have gone through i wouldn't be surprised that if you see either alter permit number recommendations from what they've already come out with or at the commission meeting they even go deeper than the cuts that we already seen or they should or they should or they may you may just i don't you think that that's probably very likely in some of these units that they they may have gone with these two or three weeks ago as permit cuts but after what's happened the last two or three weeks and the prognosis they're going to have to go deeper one thing that that's maybe a little concerning is that that meeting last week um brian neswick mentioned that he doesn't have you know the game fish doesn't have any plans to do any additional

major cuts at this point and i just encourage people to be paying attention to that i mean i i think you know you get more bees with honey than vinegar so i wouldn't go and beat the game fish's door down or be uh ignorant or anything like that but i i think i you know for me i don't think they should issue any doe fawn antelope tags at all and i think people should be yeah yeah and i think people should be focused on elk if you want my opinion i uh the elk are also taking it hard this this winter i know a lot of the the elk are boarding calves um i've got a lot of rancher buddies here in the community a lot of elk are boarding calves and and a lot of calves are dying the elk are taking it hard but i do know that they set up an emergency feed ground here up to up on muddy creek and uh which is you know

not not a normal situation either um they're feeding about 600 additional head of elk and and i do know the game fish realized holy cow we got way more elk than we thought and so if i could advise anything to to people they're going to have the elk are going to have the same situation they're going to have a lot of feed to eat this this summer and you know i would imagine it's going to produce a lot of elk and the elk they're they're a lot more hardy you know i think uh i think that's where i i'd definitely focus some time so wow do you uh you know you mentioned the three-pointer better but do you i'm sure you get frustrated with game and fish like like we do everybody's really passionate with their own state and we were talking before you got on about uh the utah division of wildlife and we're actually

like you said we're not truly argumentative with them and we do sympathize with them at times and trying to make everybody happy and everybody's got an opinion but i mean do you feel like three-pointer better as a band-aid to just giving over-the-counter tags to residents just just giving anybody that wants a tag a tag you know what i mean is that just kind of a band-aid to try to prolong that change or that potential change down the road yeah i agree i mean i i've always kind of supported the three-pointer better the four-pointer better um you know i've i've told the gaming fish in the past i don't see an issue with it if it's if it's a two or three year span and then you drop it off immediately um but you know a lot of what i what i worry about is just people shooting a fork and horn hoping that it's a three by two

or whatever and then they and then they ground check them you know what i mean and it absolutely that's what i worry about on a three point especially when deer numbers or buck numbers are going to be low anyway after a winter loss it's going to be there are not going to be as many bucks around so you're going to shoot and hope later yeah maybe yeah it's happened if it is like you said if it's a short-term thing to save any two point any yearling bucks that any fawns that survive in our two points this year and it's it's for that purpose okay but if it sticks forever it shows there's something else broken you're not recruiting enough bucks into the population for whatever other reason whether that be through winters or over harvest or whatever and it affects the rut and affects lots of lots of

other variables but yeah just i mean i know it's nice to it you know as a resident and wyoming's one of the last great states i mean it's you guys got wildlife it's your desert's full of wildlife it's just kind of crazy it's awesome um but it does feel like at times you know it's hard to curtail these tag numbers when you when you don't have a way to do that resident wise yeah yeah i know a lot of a lot of residents here are asking why why they don't make residents limited quota and everything you know go down that route i know there's a lot of you know you talk to any gaming fish personnel and i mean they're they're a thousand percent against it yeah so i you know i just i i know those guys are they want them to consider it but you can tell the gaming fish are not considering that they want to

keep a a general a general tag for the residents and you know i just i don't know i have mixed feelings both ways oh yeah you're resident it's understandable you know you've you've hunted it a certain way your whole life we've we've gone through that in utah 20 years ago when we had to go draw tough change then we had to pick from a region we had to pick to an individual unit and it's hard it is it is hard and there's a lot of emotion there's a lot of discussions a lot of sides to that but i guess then there's a lot of people that want to change and then we come down to a general what we call like a general area unit and then people want to change make that into a into a poncegant type experience i know and so you'd end up go keep going down these rabbit holes and it's tough but it'll be interesting i guess after this winter and the dust settles although we might not have any dust

all winter long up there but uh to see what what the real long-term effect how much does it set things back and can the status quo if you want to call it that keep keep going as a status quo or does there have to be a new something new change i think you've got a good perspective zach on being able to maybe um fight the battles that you can actually maybe make some headway you're not going to make headway on on the general status but maybe it is the three or four point or maybe it is um the the doe tags and things like that or the youth tags or or whatever and so yeah work on the well or even like what were we talking about the youth doe tags yeah youth doe and then dauphin and this year like yeah they always do them to cut but it feels like just for the sake of erring on caught inside of caution just eliminate and you can and then you can make that change that that change is one that

would resonate with even the residents wouldn't you think zach i think so i mean everybody gets so the gaming fish when i talk to him about you know getting rid of those those doe mule deer tags i mean they get so sensitive about public perception what people are going to think and you know well the youth are important the youth are important absolutely i agree i agree a thousand percent but i also think there's a value i think the youth get too much too fast anymore and i think there's also value in you know for example you know if you if you uh you know say you're a little bit short on cash at the house and your kids want to do something one of the weekends and you know hey kids you know we don't really have the money this paycheck we'll wait till you know we'll wait till next paycheck and we'll go

accomplish that i mean there's there's value in that kind of lesson to to our youth as well that hey when deer numbers are great you know yeah maybe we have some we all get to kill deer we need to help them yep yep you know that totally makes one thing too i don't know if utah does it but it it drives me nuts that wyoming does it but they always move the objective you know our deer numbers have went from you know 80 to 60 to 40 and instead of getting more deer on the landscape they just keep moving the objective well we're still within 10 percent of the deer objective well you you're moving it you're lowering the deer you keep lowering the deer objective you're saying yeah yeah yeah and it's crazy it's somebody actually at that meeting on thursday challenged them on that they said why do you keep

moving the deer objective down down down instead of trying to get more of the deer on the landscape and and at some point at some point at some point the guy the the you know the elderly hunters out there the generation that remembers what it could be looks like and what it was i'm done maybe what it should be you know you you end up we forget as a generation the newer younger generations don't realize what it once was what it could be what it should be whatever and so when you've moved that objective now we can say well our objective's always been this well yeah but it wasn't in the 80s you know what i mean but people forget as those generations come and go that's forgotten you know to a degree so what um zach what i mean i don't know if we could dive into you know some of the different uh proposals out there for non-residents and 90-10 splits and things like that i mean do you have

a perspective on some of those things um yeah i mean it's it's a there's there's definitely some deep conversation on that i mean i i feel like the wyoming task force you know and and you guys are going to think i sound like a crazy right winger or something i i when i originally saw that thing develop and come out i i had some big hopes for that i thought it was going to be something really good for the for the state of wyoming for uh people to be able to get their voice out and as i followed that and went to some of the meetings in casper and everything else i i soon realized that there was a lot more political oh yeah gain behind the scenes and stuff and and i honestly i'm gonna be honest with you i stopped going to casper i stopped following a lot of the stuff because it was you know a lot of uh under the table a lot of uh yeah outfitter discussions and some different things

and and uh you know i so i'm gonna give you my my short version i i feel like we're spending so much energy talking about 90-10 and 80-20 and all those things that's what i told these guys that we're we're not focusing on the real solution which is putting more critters on the landscape how do we get more bighorn sheep on the landscape more moose on the landscape i mean they still kill cow moose on a regular basis and they they move the cow moose objective the same direction they move the bighorn sheep objective the same way they do it with all the objectives they just move it down down down down how do we get more of those critters on the landscape because all we're doing going 90-10 is we're divvying up the last critters we have you know it's like a last stitch effort it's confusing progress and activity in my in my opinion it's like let's figure out how to get more critters on the

landscape to where we can keep you know bighorn sheep and all those things at 80-20 and i'm i'm big on non-residents i don't know how much you guys follow some of the stuff but i i'm a huge supporter of non-residents if my kid moves away someday and and you know ends up living somewhere else and wants to come back hunting with his dad i would love for the chance for him to still be on an 80-20 split or something like this still have the opportunity to hunt another great steak and i feel like it's just you know we're going down the wrong tunnel going 90-10 and all that i mean i'm not against it i you know it's not a bad thing for us residents but i i just feel like it's it's a lot of work for nothing well and it got muddied so much throughout that discussion process of okay we're going to do this and then of the 10 percent we're going to give you know somebody to

guarantee the outfitters and that's honestly and hey i'm a guide i'm an outfitter and i i don't generally like that concept i don't really believe that a that a business but private business like that should be subsidized over public wildlife and some people might say wait wait wait we give landowner tags and outfitter tags well there's a difference in some certain cases with with legislation that earmarks private deeded ground processes for receiving landowner tags whether they be non-transferable like wyoming or transferable and compensating utah yeah for providing private sector that is different to me than just an an outfitter like i want to be an outfitter but the state needs to give me tags so i can have a business and i can sell them and i can sell those and and that to me and i know i might

ruffle some favors on that because there's other states that have that but in general that concept i don't really i don't really like i don't think a public resource should be used that way and i know that there's maybe a few other instances throughout the west that that gets muddied based on you know public permits through outfitter allocated processes whatever but i just in general don't like so i was really in opposition to that and i i wrote that very strongly to wyoming and i know a lot of people did because it goes back to what you were saying zach you the pie is shrunk so small and then you're you're let's say you got 10 pieces of the pie you know you know a 10th 10th for non-residents 90% for residents but the pie is so flipping small now it doesn't matter about the 90s percent on a on a

sheep or a moose unit that has five or four total tags you know you got nothing to eat there's nothing left of you know you're looking at it in your hand like yeah what's left so it frustrates the entire system yeah exactly so over over a split to an outfitter so to speak that's right you're like well did and did you guys pay attention to so i don't know if you guys have noticed the the most recent discussion so that whole guaranteed tags the outfitters due to everybody writing in and everything was actually shut down oh yeah it was that didn't go anywhere yep but then they increased non-resident special by 200 200 on some of them yep and did it the back way the special price license that was a quasi quasi outfitter pool is what it was because you're now what they did you made it made the special price is so high yep you know pat crank wrote an article in one of the in the cowboy

state daily about it saying well we couldn't get the outfitter only we're going to raise these tags by 200 percent in in order to um you know still you know still uh talking about that our state isn't in line with the other states and everything else which i don't agree with i feel like we are in line and and yeah they come around the back side and did it anyways and it bums me out because i don't think people pay attention to that stuff as well as they should and i i think we're a little i think we're a little sensitive too with the wilderness law and having to hire an outfitter as a non-resident to go into the wilderness if you're hunting but we're fine to fish it we can go into the wilderness and fish we can go into the wilderness and camp so it just feels like they have had a lot of cards

and hey we have a lot of great friends that are outfitters there but i mean do enough enough enough pretty soon the pie is so small now that i think you're honestly in wyoming if if if these things and and i've i've written commissioners some of which zach you know very well you know they've asked for my opinion at certain times but i honestly think wyoming is at a major crossroads right here in the next three to five years on losing a giant segment of non-resident buy-in all forever that you know with the permit increase fees and tag cuts and all that like all right system and the random tags versus preference tags i mean there's just so there's a lot of so you push hard far hard hard in the in the and it's i understand residents should have more say in their own wildlife by far we we argue that in utah we live here but at some point there may be a line that

you cross you're like oh my gosh from a budgetary standpoint now what are the game throughout the baby with the bathwater that's right yeah yeah but zach i think you're on the i agree 100 i think you're i think you're on on the right uh you're you're you're moving in the right path in the right direction by talking about overall game numbers you know populations things like that it totally makes sense we but what happens when we see tough times we see tough times in nevada we see tough times in utah or whatever you get argumentative on the system and splitting the pies we're talking about and because everybody's angry we're angry we're in this long-term drought down here in southern utah nevada arizona new mexico you get angry uh deer tags are cut to nothing and now and then you're and then you want your share whatever as a resident or whatever and you're just angry and i and i so i

guess i sympathize a bit with the residents too and then you're and then you guys are up against a major winter kill and and whatnot and so there's a lot of doom and gloom you know and so then it increases that animosity and and uh argumentativeness i guess it's so to speak yeah well and i've got a different perspective too that i would recommend that i hope everybody would appreciate is is a lot of people ask me well were you going to get a deer tag this year are you going to get a deer tag you know kind of seeing if i'm going to put my money where my mouth is and everything else and what i recommend to everybody is go buy the deer tag buy the conservation tag put some money into the game fish to allow them to do the projects and the burns and the stopovers and the mowing projects and everything else let's continue to help fund the game and fishes process because i do believe they

do some good stuff and go out there spend the time with your family your kids and your wife and your friends and everything go out and hunt and but just be selective you don't have just because you have a deer tag in your pocket you don't have to kill something so that's what i've told everybody i'm still going to get a deer tag but i'm i probably 99 of the chance won't pull the trigger but i'm going to go out and still you know be in god's country and enjoy it and and help the game fish's cause and everything else we can and just you know and if you know a 220 inch buck walk scrub oh you're smashing it oh yeah or you call your friends yeah so that's yeah exactly that's so that's where my head is and i get it my point is i've told everybody you as the person so the game and fish whatever season they

set what tags they reduce don't reduce everything else we still have the powers of people to go out there and and i've told these guys hey if you're don't need to meet and you don't have the interest in it really and you're okay not getting the deer tag for a couple years i think that's a great move you know you still have the power to buy the tag and then just not use it um you know it's hard for it's hard for people to go home empty though it's we've talked about it with colorado guys we've joked about it if we could have enough carrots to dangle out there i would love to do it in every state send us in your unused deer tag that you decided not to kill a two point or a 20 inch four point on two-year-old buck the last day and we're going to draw awesome prizes and i wish we could have hundreds of thousands of deer tags sent in hundreds of thousands of dollars but i don't know

how we could make that a big enough carrot to incentivize someone but it's the concept i love actually because yeah there's and we're not talking about kids or you know we're just talking about guys that have hunted a lot of mule deer kids and young hunters need to harvest doesn't it's part of learning and it's part of part of the whole process but but at some point when you're a 50 year old guy and you've killed how many bucks over the course of how many years you don't need to smash the next fork you see or or whatever just and and or just a buck you know and if you need meat there's i mean there's cow oak tags everywhere i mean don't nobody shoots a mule there for the meat like rarely right you don't you don't go non-resident spend 1500 bucks on your trip there's plenty if you need the there's plenty of meat tags yeah non-resident we've talked about them the doughs font whatever

tag fee gas motel everything you're there just just go go to spend that spend 300 bucks on the meat at the grocery store and i know it's not venison okay you can give me every argument in the world but not the most pure protein on planet earth but no i mean there's something something to be said i mean obviously we fill our freezers full of game meat my you know my kids are out hunting and whatnot but i i think you're definitely on to something we could get behind that 100 yeah so well we don't want to keep you all day we know you got snow to plow we do we got a life to live you got you got dead dead animals to throw in the back of you know great big uh dump trailers but tell tell us i mean zach you're our guest on here and we appreciate you coming on but i mean is there something else that

you want to discuss uh you know that's kind of that you've been wanting to air out a little bit i mean any other angle that you're you're thinking about you know the only the only other thing that i that i struggle processing and i just i guess i ask people to be be thinking about is is is the other controversy i deal with a lot and get a lot of questions on and stuff is is the shed antler the shed antler stuff i mean utah did the statewide uh lockdown until may 1st and and everything else and you know the oil and gas we get beat up a lot behind the scenes regarding migration corridors and all this other stuff and monteith writes articles about the oil and gas you know it makes it hard on hard on the wildlife and everything which i i i literally uh you know do not agree with obviously being said i'm i'm in the field with these animals and people daily but

one thing that i've noticed is is this year we're talking about not starting a lot of our oil and gas projects on may 1st we're talking about moving it to may 15th or even june 1st so as an oil and gas companies we're you know we're we're willing to sacrifice revenue um sacrifice uh you know some things that that that don't help us legally you can start legally you could do may 1 and and to heck with everything else that's what you're saying yeah we could yep and and we we've we've made the decision internally to try to try to give these animals a little bit of a an extra break and and you know i struggle with it a little bit it's like everybody always says you know i'm all about conservation and all about the critters and all this other stuff and and it just blows my mind you you have these conversations with i've had a lot of conversations with some really good guys

that are like nope there should be no antler protection rules whatsoever that's our it's our state it's our land it's our antlers and all this and i get that i trust me i'm a hardcore republican i get it i get it 100 but i also think on the other side i mean coming from when i was a when i was youth and kemmer growing up in kemmer i mean i was i was out there waiting for them to fall off off the heads man i it was you know i picked up some some stellar bucks back in the day just sitting there camping out and i look now that i'm you know almost 40 years old i look back and and uh you know i just i have a different perspective on it now and i just i think people need to you know need to think about the animal realize that it's just a horn i mean yes it's cool to get it into your collection and everything else but it's just an antler and give these give these animals a break that's all i'm

saying is give them a break realize how hard i mean if you think about all these negative 20 and 30 and 40 degree days these these animals around me have had to endure i mean you know maybe you would have a little more compassion and seeing their heads you know laying in the snow like they're just they're just asking you know they're they're praying for some sunshine you know and i just i ask everybody to put your yourself your your horn hunting thing to the side and and just think about the critter for once and and that's just my two cents and i know you know i've had that conversation with a lot of people and a lot of people you know they're just like nope i should you know i should be allowed to go out there and get them the day they fall off your point is may one's not may one's not late

enough legally but but do the right thing and just hold off like we are in the in the in the industry of making money and oil and gas maybe hold off don't go don't go chasing them around and may one just because you can um which non-residents can't we got we got a we got a little bit of a we got a they give us a week after you guys i guess so well and you may check into that because i think i don't think that gets signed into effect until uh july of this year okay so it'll be for next year i don't think that's till next year but yes there is a there was a discussion of that that three to seven days and i you know i struggle with that whole thing too now i do agree i do agree about the the non-residents buying the conservation tag um to come in here and shed hunt and i know that that you know i know all the discussions there you know it's only going to honest or only going to be the

ones buying the conservation the unhonest world and everything else but i do agree with that because i'll tell you what most of us that are putting in for tags anyways are going to have a conservation stamp anyways because you know we'll draw a deer tag or maybe come up here fishing or whatever so you're going to have one don't utilize the resource without paying something that's your point yeah exactly i think there's no harm in it it's like i spend a lot of time you know i've raised almost just under a million bucks now um that i've raised through muley fanatics and put on the ground and uh you know since 2015 so a short span a short window of doing that and uh you know i just i i just encourage people if you can if you can help on these projects you can help with fence removals um you

know these these uh these old abandoned fences we remove all the time and mowing projects and burns and you know man i i just encourage people if we can put some funds on the ground now does how do you translate that to more deer on the landscape i've always struggled with that you know it's like how do you know how many deer you've helped or or put on the landscape i mean that's that's a hard thing to quantify but what we do know is it doesn't hurt it doesn't hurt to you know to to do these projects and stuff so so i i believe in the conservation thing put a little bit more money on the on the land as long as it's being used right now i do struggle with the lamb and game of fish you know they're spending 15 million on the homes and the game fish homes in jackson right now and i i do i'm just

gonna be honest with you i struggle with that tell us how you really feel zach oh man let's hear it that that that was hard i mean 15 million bucks you can do a lot of good with that about a lot of all tents i like it hey well let's end this on a positive note maybe i'm just going to give you the opportunity brownson and i we like to hear deer stories uh you want to tell us about it tell us a big old buck story i'll i'll uh tell you about last year so it was uh i ended up shooting a 30 inch wide three by four um it was it was a it was a buck that that uh i did not see the the other side on uh the way he was bedded and everything but shot a shot a great buck my buddy rale Alexander shot a great buck what was unique is we i i we horse hunt we got horses and mules and so we're in there you know five five

and a half miles and then we and we do everything on foot after that point we try to go where nobody else will go well we we kill raised deer a couple days into the hunt then we go a couple days longer into the hunt we we end up taking my buck and we're coming back and we look up and it's about 180 yards is is a buck standing there that's probably i'd say 225 230 somewhere in that range i mean dark chocolate horde not a not a deer you've you've seen on social media showing up on the winter range or anything like that i haven't seen it man i haven't seen it on on anything and i don't believe i mean we were happy late late season age um i actually sent my dad back in there on foot he he went all the way in there on foot not killed him but he went in there never never could never could drum him up again but i'll the the

part of the story that'll make you sick so we're we're walking across the hill to shoot my buck and we're we're going in and out of the trees and rocks and everything else and i look up and i see this thing running away from me and i said man that looked like an elk well it ran into the trees i mean i i all i could see was antlers you know and it ran into the trees and raised like what do you think it was i said i think it was just an elk man we go over shoot my buck come back and right where right where that thing had ran into the trees that buck was standing there so i literally walked i literally walked i had a bit like 200 yards at that point walked by it oh that was a raghorn bull let's go after the buck exactly that was a bull elk i mean jeez i told ray i said we've been doing this all these years we figure you have all those bugs worked out yet you still end up doing a bonehead

move you know i'm pretty good at species identification if you want to take me along well so what you're saying is there's always a surprise out there waiting for you um a deer you didn't even know about yeah nobody knew about pretty special wow well what uh you've killed you've you've killed some giants i mean what's what's your biggest buck i mean i i just want you to brag for a minute i don't know why oh no i appreciate that but no i uh the biggest one i've got is and i i'm not sure if it's still the state record or not um i know that gill rodent killed a killed a giant heavy slob just a giant yeah but mine mine is uh is is 240 um gross and then uh 236 in the eighth net he's 27th in in in the world and then he's archery archery archery and he was he was rubbing so that that's hard school hard antler score remind me he's kind of yeah when you kill partially rubbing i mean you

didn't save that did you i couldn't yeah he was wanted to i'll be honest with you i would have i would have i would have yeah went without the score to keep that velvet on but yeah it was coming off so that's a hard antler 236 net is all there is there's no well yeah calcium just bone yeah well we had pictures in our mag yeah years what year was that 2000 uh 2015 yeah and then okay yeah and then that pope and year so the pope and young does a thing called a biennium uh awards and what that is is every two years they they find the largest mule deer killed in the in in in the world which understand the world's north america but in the world and he was also he was also issued that so he was issued the buck was issued uh first place in the in the 2015-16 biennium so he's the largest killed in the world in those two years and then there was a guy from utah yep guy from utah uh that

came in second place he's he lost lost to that buck by by an inch and then uh um and then he also something kind of cool that not a lot of people know about is he got uh what's called a washakee award in the the uh the the tribe um you know down in riverton they've got the washakee uh you know indian reservation and everything else they actually gave the buck an award for one of the largest killed in wyoming and guess this award's only been given out like six or seven times in its lifetime and it's been around for for 40 50 years and uh he ended up getting yeah he ended up getting that award i got invited uh to the indian reservation and and uh they they showcased the buck at a banquet and he ended up getting this uh getting the washakee award and it's a cool award got it the same got an indian

wasn't harvested on the res though was it no they just give him more for anything they're just saying hey just statewide state of wyoming oh yep just uh wyoming the way they explained it to me is just you know kind of glorifying the you know the works for the buck itself and it's just glorifying you know a special something special from the state of wyoming special deer is that the same place where that lady killed that 280 or 90 buck about 10 or 15 years prior it was the wind river res was it that right yeah same reservation yeah is it wind rivers yeah yeah that that buck was a buck oh but i i killed it in g so i killed mine in and unit in region g yeah but hers was 10 or 15 years prior to your buck on the res but just one of those that stand out in your mind kind of like your deer just geez they're just well you're special aren't they zach i mean geez unbelievable yeah yeah thanks

you're blessed man so thanks you're blessed well good luck to you this year we hope that i mean what's going to happen is going to happen you know i've had a lot of people saying why aren't they doing more in wyoming feeding we're like if you know how widespread this is there's and how really it's not like we got i mean you can't even get to most of these places in the red desert it's like what you're talking about with the 600 dead bodies in one little hunt unit area little area you know like that's everywhere in southern part so you can't there's sometimes what's going to happen is going to happen at this stage nature's brutal we hope that there's it's decent i mean hey i'll probably still be there let's just put it there right there's going to be sign me here sign they did have we did look at some harvest rates the year after these hard winters and it's generally 30 to 50 percent down

harvest rates but you know our contentions it's a lot less it's a lot smaller a lot less smaller deer young deer you know a lot less those are even there to be shot yeah so that's factors into it partly well we appreciate your time zach and know you're busy and you're obviously very passionate and just thought you popped in our head today we you know we've been talking about wyoming a bunch of course deadlines not till may 31st for deer and antelope but um got some time there's going to be a lot to way out this year it's not going to be the same um same especially like i said for antelope deer either but uh we appreciate your time talking to us appreciate it zach you're awesome absolutely i appreciate you guys inviting me on so wish you the best and uh geez congratulations on a 30 inch 2022 i'd go look for that raghorn bull again i would too i might grab an elk tag this time

yeah next year next year hopefully he's still there all right all right buddy appreciate you take care okay yeah caught him off just a little early uh pretty awesome bronson it's good to get a it's good to talk about yeah it's one thing to read about in the papers and all and it's it's the same it's not like we're seeing something in the news that's not been bared out with everybody we're talking to it's just it's unfortunate and these antelope the pictures we're seeing in places of dozens just curled up like husky dogs with their you know noses curled around them and they're all just dead in the sagebrush they just when you're dying dying in the dozens in a herd together be hard to watch it's hard to see yeah i'm sure being a resident up there and uh dude i think it's smart for them to pick up the carcasses oh yeah well yeah because there is a lot of research you know back

from my biology days up around strawberry reservoir in utah the number one nest predator are well red fox but ravens ravens they're the smartest flipping animal i mean they can get into your cooler with a padlock on it i don't know how they can do it but they can do stuff like that they can pick the lock or whatever they are smart birds and when they and they will and they'll find a sage grout i mean their eyesight's unbelievable and so they'll find a bird go around kick her off the nest and just crush your eggs and so yeah if you litter the place with if you're drying in by carcasses you know bagpies ravens all that take it on the beak they're gonna take it on the beak huh absolutely hey i want to tell you something positive oh let's have it really positive really today is the colorado deadline 8 p.m boss come five we don't have to we've got eight hours through

all they we've been sitting through some calls we've actually it's been awesome we we actually enjoy talking to everybody and helping them make plans but man people are people are not slowing down they're looking to use zero to one point two points whatever they got it's it's going to be interesting yeah it's you know can't come too soon though i'm looking forward to tomorrow what are we going to do tomorrow we're going to talk about somebody's colorado plans for 2024 it always happens it always always happens it's fun it's fun it's just how to talk about colorado you're like okay you know the deadline was last night oh yeah yeah i just did points only but can we talk about next year it's so fun it just is i mean there's so much excitement around this kind of stuff and and tags are life bronson tags are life it it kind of is and this time of year or this this year in particular

there's building um optimism in some some states new mexico arizona southern utah southern nevada and then there's just like we got done talking about uh wyoming and even southern idaho northern utah there's there's feeling like a lot of doom and gloom in in those situations and it's and it's unfortunate so there's we've said it a million times nothing stays the same hey i was in the boat i could use my antelope points last year and why me archibald did other wyatt did he did i didn't now i don't know when i'm gonna use mine again it's gonna be yours probably because i you know i want to hunt something when it's really ripe you want to get it when it's you want to hunt some abs yeah freaking black black four inch abs coming out of the head you know that's what i want you've you've described bucks like that hey i want to see one i showed you i showed you video yeah and i and it

was true huh shocking i might i might put in there this year who knows we'll see all right well all right everybody well if you want to support us here at epic outdoors or call in to visit on a regular basis get our publication and and uh check out what we going on what we have going on uh go online epic outdoors.com you can go on there uh join as a member uh somewhat inexpensive this day and age 150 bucks uh for an annual fee or call us at 435-263-0777 and we'd be happy to uh visit with you help you uh make plans everything to do with western big game canada alaska mexico that's what we do here at epic outdoors and we're not changing all right bronson i'm freaking ready for lunch all right we'd like to thank all of our sponsors here at epic outdoors for top of the line hunting clothing and apparel in every environment visit underarmor.com we'd like to thank underarmor for being our title

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