EP 287: Q&A Part 1, Secrets Divulged, Favorite Optics, Hunts and More!

Anything to do with Western Mid-Games.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour.

Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, the entire Epic Outdoors crew, pretty much the entire crew. Who are we missing today? We're missing Wyatt. He's doing domestic duties, I think. He's doing domestic duties for half a day and then he's being selfish for the entire weekend. Is he? Is he? He's headed out. Scout. Is it selfish or is it just personal? I call it putting food on the table. What do you call it? Sounds good to me. Anyway, this will be an interesting slip over there. What are you doing? He's ordering. No, he doesn't want to be on record saying anything about what he thinks, personal or domestic, with Wyatt. We all have our personal lives. My advice to him was let's flip a couple coins and make some decisions. We didn't have to do that, luckily. Whether you stay married or what. Well, there's deadlines in returning tags and not returning tags and things like that.

So, anyway, I don't know. We'll find out later what he decided. All right. Well, anyway, here we are. We're doing a Q&A podcast. It's kind of interesting. We held off a little bit just to make sure people are off vacation and whatnot. Now, there's some of us headed out and scouting. It's just hard to get us all in the same room. So, here we are. What are we going to start off with, Bronson? Well, I don't know. It's Q&A. Do you need to do any lead up to that? I don't know. I didn't even read the questions. I mean, just Q&A. They're better that way. They're raw, unfiltered. There's a few I've read that are very targeted in who they're asking questions at. If you read and we have – I know some are for you, some are for Wyatt. So, I like those questions. Some are like, where's Jason – GPS coordinates of Jason's favorite. All right. So, let's just start. Let's just –

Question reader guy, remember? Oh, you're the question reader guy. We have a new moderator now. Oh, no. You're the question reader guy. Josh, did you have some questions about vernacular? Usage that you were not comfortable with a minute ago? It's going to offend some folks. Okay. What? Just what? Terms that are thrown out in the hunting world drive me nuts. What drives you nuts? What turns you off? I know what drives Jenna nuts, and it's the word, Jason. I use it all the time, pre-scout. She thinks that's like a double, double, whatever, double positive. She hates it. She says, scouting is scouting. How do you pre-scout? That's all pre. Scouting means you're going out to the tree. Yeah. But – I don't know. We've used it for 20-something years. You can scout during the season. I feel like I'm just scouting with – It's kind of like that thing we found the other day. A ram and a U.

Oh, yeah. And U. Yeah, the old version of whenever a word starts with a vowel, you're supposed to use normally. Who's going to say that? Or a vowel. An apple and orange instead of a banana, a carrot. Okay, nobody likes this conversation. Josh, let's go to yours. Nobody. Not even an Englishman. But the word U, EW, is – We've already lost him. He's ticked because we're way off. Josh, do you want to just blow over that? We're going to – So what – We're about – He's about to say it. That's the reason I keep reading it. And I like – I'll use – I'll say one of them. Devin can – Or Logan can delete anything. We know that. The word run. Run. Run? Yeah. A – You mean like Devin? Do you – Do I look like I have anything to do with running? So when a guy calls me and says – So when they say run, lift, and shoot, it bothers you? No, because that's a physical thing that you do.

It's like running is something that you do. Well, I don't. But I hike fast and breathe hard. So if you – So you'd rather say hike, lift, and shoot. No, it has nothing to do with physical. The lifting bothers you. This is strictly to do with – I want to know which pack you run. Oh. I want to know which range finder you run. It's not the literal term run. It makes my skin crawl. How many miles are you running? When I hear someone say it, someone ask it, it literally makes my skin crawl. What pack are you rocking these days? What monster are you running right now? I just say – I'm rocking the 12s. That bothers me too. Like I just use it. I put it on my pack and I use it. I don't run with it. I don't rock it. I just put it on my pack. Are you rocking a flatty? Do you ever rock a flatty? No. Flatties are rocked and ran. What if somebody says what tires you're running? Yes.

That's kind of a flick of work. What truck you're running these days? That's a good use. It's still pretty proper. What tires are you putting on your vehicle? What truck are you driving on a daily basis? What tires run your truck? What's your daily? What tires run your truck? What tires do you have? I don't know. I don't run anything. What tires you're running? I don't run anything. What tires you're running? I have no problems with that one. I get snacks out of a backpack. I don't run a backpack. I don't know. I don't run a rain finder. What kind of snacks do you like? I click a button and it gives me no way. What kind of snacks do you like? I don't know. Okay. Everybody has their thing. Everybody has their pet peeves. We know that.

We won't get into the other one. What is the other one? There's a question that talks about it. That's what set it off. If there is, we'll get to it then. You guys re-read. I have not pre-read these. Pre-re-read? I have not. I don't know what we're getting ourselves into. Okay. Question reader guy. Joshua. I don't know if I can say the name because these are like Instagram. Well, you don't have to. Tag legos. No, but there are some maybe follow-up questions because some of these, I'd like to know the question is, how did you get your Instagram name?

It's Hussein. I mean, really? It's Hussein. Oh, sorry. Okay. I thought it was Saddam. Here we go. Let's go with this first one. I don't know if it's Cesar or Caesar. It's probably Cesar. Cesar J. Cast. It is. So we're going to go with Caesar. Whatever. I mean, we know him. He's a client. How is the Revik peep sight? Is it worth the money for an extra shooting distance? Thank you. You know, go ahead. You were going to go. Somebody was breathing heavy. I was just going to say I haven't used it. No, I was leaning in to hear what you were going to say. Well, I don't think we haven't used it, but I think it. I haven't ran it yet, so I don't know. I can't speak to it. I'm not rocking it on one of my muzzleloaders, but we have talked to guys that use it, and it's a revolutionary idea. It's basically dialing a turret for an open sight.

The problem with open sights is you can only see so far, right? Yes. Like, it's really hard. I would shoot. The concept of adjustment and holding is right, but you still have to see the animal, and your eyes have to be able to focus on where you're aiming on the animal, and all of those things. Because the ratcheting of it, the concept's amazing. And it probably is amazing. If I was 35 years old with an open sight, I mean, I was a killer. Now I'm like, meh. I put my glasses on, and I feel superhuman. Really? A hundred and twenty-five yards is legit. Oh, I have to shoot a peep sight with glasses on. Yeah. I can't see. What kind of glasses like normal prescription, but not readers or anything? No.

I haven't had the problem. Open sights are significant. I mean, this is a great question. We're going to run into it this year, maybe. But I, but yeah, I mean, I think it's, I don't know if it's worth, I can't tell you it's worth the money. It's made out of gold, maybe. That sight costs more than most muzzleloaders. Yeah. So, but we are rocking some pretty expensive muzzleloaders. Yeah, we're talking a grand for that sight. Most muzzleloaders are grand. The scope's a grand, a 1,200. What is that? It's a huge. Or that sight. It's a thousand dollars. Rebarrel it or whatever. I mean, you know, got some money in mind. You guys do too. So anyway, did anybody else have anything to add to that?

No. I tried. I used it. So I, you know, I've maintained my globe sight, peep rear. For me and my eyes. Like a Schaefer and a Williams. For my eyes, that feels like I can't shoot farther than I can with that. I don't feel my eyes in that. Yeah. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm missing something. I've got another system that's, it's actually, you know, anyway, it, it, that people come up and down too. Similar. I think it's, I think it's a great idea. Yeah. Just think. Generally, we're, you're able to shoot 200 yards with an open sight just by a little bit of holdover or sighting it in so that it's a, it's a 12 inch drop at 200. You know what I mean? With these new, new age muzzleloaders that are shooting, you know, 2,600 feet a second. I mean, they're pretty legit. And I do like a state, like a people or the standard, you know, open sight style, you know, you got to have a P over the blade.

Yeah. You put the whole back, the whole rear side. Cause then you just got a front sight. Your front sight's the only thing. Yeah. So peeps are good. Let's run the question number. Okay. Two. Second question. NorCal underscore vineyards. Are we reading these guys? Okay. I guess we're doing that. Go ahead. It says, um, how often is Jason Meuli Carter shooting his bow? Um, if he has an archery tag. Not often enough, but I'm scouting really hard now, but starting around, starting, starting right now, basically tomorrow, Monday, no, I'm going to be, no, you've got weddings. No, I've got problems. I've got, I've got normal life problems, but gathering of cameras starting August one, heavy, heavy shooting, but generally in July, but dude, we're running so hard. I'm ragged right now. Well, the other, the other thing is, and I don't know, I'm not a tweaker.

Some people tweak their bows every single year and I grab my bow and it's darts from the year before. I am not a tweaker. What is that a bad term? I'm guessing with the millennial. Josh is just, Josh, is there a new dual meeting for tweakers? Oh, go to YouTube and view Google tweakers. Hey, I'll bet you I'm almost, I'm almost in the 50 crowd and that isn't in my vernacular. So you can tell me what it means, but I don't tweak my stuff. I run, I run the same stuff. How's that? Sometimes you need some adjustments. Usually your strings stretch a little bit. I mean, there's some, but I mean, other than that, I love my sight picture. I have two bows. They have the exact same rest, the exact same sights. Once August hits. I know what you're thinking, Carter, don't say it. No. Because you don't want to touch anything.

And when I'm in the field, I'm shooting every day, like midday, midday, wham, wham, wham. So what I'm saying is, I mean, I shot last night, but I, you always can get better, but I'm never, I don't find myself having major overhaul problems. Like I have to do major shooting and recalibration. And these are, I get my bow set up very similar and I shoot that guy and he shoots great. And I shoot just to keep in shape. And like Jason said, when you're out hunting and you hunt for two hours in the morning and you have eight in the middle of the day. So hot. You guys, I do a lot of shooting during the night. I do. A lot. Yeah. And I'll shoot now too, but the, the, I'm really, I'm run ragged scouting, pre-scouting, running hard. I, I honestly thought, I don't know, I guess I have some different things too, but I think, I think sometimes guys almost shoot too much. I was just going to say that.

And that's when you start getting, I don't know, this is just my personal theory, but like, oh, you hear all this target panic and things like that. It just works. And things and a guy will shoot till he starts to get exhausted. And I've done it before you shoot a rifle almost too much. And then you start getting frustrated because gosh, when I first started shooting, I was doing this and now it's doing and guys get frustrated. Then it's all in your head and you get weird. And that's not the right answer. The industry answer is you shoot nonstop every day. Well, and what I say about not tweaking, when I pull up and shoot five hours or five arrows and they're like that. And I'm like, do I need to shoot 25 that way? And their point is, are you shooting a hundred? Well, I don't know. No. No. You know. But I don't need to shoot this at a hundred.

I mean, that's, there's so many other variables. You're shooting 60, 70. If I'm shooting a camp and I shoot a tight group, I'm calling it. Because I don't want to grab one, cut my string, whatever, or mentally psych yourself out because you're not shooting good. You shoot one or two money shots, call it. When things are going good, let it keep going good. Yeah. That's what I meant about not tweaking. I'm not looking anything up on the internet. But I also have my form set from when I was younger. Yes. I shot my crap. I shot how many, it's like rifles. Well, we shot fingers. How many times do I need to shoot my rifle? I shot hundreds of kinds. I shot fingers. There was so much variation back then. I'm like, you had to tweak. Well, if you weren't tweaking, you weren't shooting. That's right. Because you had the aluminum arrows. You had brass sides. So you were formerly a tweaker.

So you've been a tweaker. Okay. Before equipment caught up to where I didn't need to tweak. Back in your early 20s? Yeah.

I don't know what I'm incriminating myself to say, even saying. I am that naive. And maybe that's a good thing. But you're going to have to tell me because I'm not Googling anything. You can claim naivety. Right. But. You're going to tell me off the air because I'm not searching anything. All right. Question reader guy. Have you been triggered? Are you doing okay? I'm fine. I'm good. So do we go through all these? Yes. I like this next one. Well, we don't have to go through pie. There's lots of questions. I like it because I have one word. Okay. I have an answer. Here we go. Jared, or Tyndall Jared, says, who in the office is going to kill the first 200-incher this year? Geez. Wyatt. Did you say Wyatt, too? The same time, man? Me, too. I said the same thing. You don't think so? Go ahead. He's nine days behind some guys. That's what I was just going to say.

Oh, for August 10 opener here in Nevada? Yeah, but I'm also more realistic. There's a lot of good deer this year. With? With? I mean, they're coming on pretty heavy. The difficulty of certain things. Unless I accidentally. I'll go ahead and say it's not going to be me. Yeah, I was going to say, unless I accidentally get into a bad accident on the highway with a 200-incher, it is not going to be me.

All right. So, yeah. I think, I mean, that's the goal, but. Wyatt won the vote. We'll see. Next question. I like it. I think he's, I like it. We can say what we want. He's not here. He's not here to defend himself. These are like the only podcasts he listens to are the ones he's not here. Pretty soon he comes in. Because he can't tell Logan to edit them. He's on the fight. He's on the fight Monday or Tuesday. Go teach him to go fishing today. That's right. Go be with the family. All right. Okay. So, the next one would be best way to learn primary food sources in a new unit. Ah.

That's an interesting question, only because I don't, I don't look at. Go to Hobbs, New Mexico. They're probably going to eat some different things than our dairy. You know what I mean? You've got that. It's almost, you've got the whitetail mentality a little bit. That should be coming out. Versus mule deer. Anything that's already and somewhat alive down there. You just never know. Yeah. Like there's, but generally, I mean, it follows a species too, you know. Primary food sources of what? You know, bitter brush, I mean, for, you know. I think he's probably, yeah, beer. Get there a day early and watch. I don't know what he's talking about. Yeah. Get there a day early and watch. See what they're eating. I mean, who knows? I mean, you've got to know the species. I mean, mule deer, this year there's so much feed. It's like, there's nothing to key in. They're not keying on anyone.

But it can vary on one unit. But it could be a dry pond, like a dry pond. Like they've come to a dry pond. Morning glory. Morning glory and weeds. They love it. All that little stuff, even a, yeah. It's all weeds. It's junk. It's not even. A tumbleweed that's green and stubble. I mean, geez. Sometimes kochia. Morning glory and dead dry pond. The ford kochia's crazy. Well, it was like when you and I were in Nevada, we went there early on and they were hammering a dry pond bank or dry pond quite heavily. And then it got some early snow, moisture, wet stuff. And then some of the forage kosher, some late weeds and grasses popped up later toward the end of that hunt. When I went back, they were no longer, you know, in the same places. They had moved quite heavily because the amount of feed had come back, which normally late October, you don't think of some new feed forces popping through.

Even cheatgrass green up. But a new burn will be, you'll have that green in November. Cheatgrass, you know. You know, crested weed or cheatgrass, it greens up again. So it also depends on, yeah, your, the tag gap, August hunt, October hunt. Yeah, they change up. They change up a lot. So it just kind of depends. But there's a gut feel when you're, when we're rolling through some of this stuff that we know so well, you just know, like, you're just. The bitter brush is pinstriping your doors nonstop. Yeah. And the tracks are just everywhere in it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. If you could only own one piece of glass, what would it be? All right. We got to go around one at a time. Logan, you're first. Even though I don't personally use them right now, I'd probably have the NLP or 12s. Okay. Amen. Yeah. Binos. Like a, like a high power bino. Yeah. Because they're, if you had to. They're good on a tripod.

Really good. And they're good enough that you can hold them. I'm not very steady. So I can't freehand them as well as some people can. But. Some people would say spot and scope. But if you had to pan with a spot and scope only. You got to find them before you look at them in a scope. I want a, I want a tripod, mounted bino. I want the 12 piers. Yeah. You got to find them first. If I can't quite tell how good they are. All right. Well, I'll walk closer. No. But I'm not panning the whole, all 24 seven with a one eye. I guess BTX. But even then it's overkill. So. Had me thinking for a minute. But they're still zoomed in too much. I don't run the BTX all the time like that. No. And do we even need to go around the room? Or is everybody going to say the same thing? No. No. I mean. Does anybody have anything different? If anybody dares say anything otherwise. Cash? What do you think?

Have you used yours yet? Yeah. I've been using mine. I love them. I would go. I would agree. The NL 12s. You got to have. You got to spot them first. Yeah. Whether it's the 12s or not. Just a high power. So let's move it a little bit further. Tripod, mounted bino. If you have one piece. Tripod, mounted bino. Fit. Oh, yeah. Fit piece, 12 seven. But let's say you could take a bino and a spotter. What would it be? A bino and a spotter. One of each. Oh, one of each. Oh. What would be your choice? Just to expand a little. I'd have to have a 95. It's Rossky 95. 95. That's my scope. It's heavy, but it's awesome. Oh, it is. I thought that I would put my 65 on a lot more to save weight when I pack. No. You don't. It's new in the box. And I've been for two years. I can't leave my 95. I agree. Can you? Mm-mm. I can't leave it. Do you have your 65, too? Yeah.

Sometimes I'll throw an 85 on, but it's 95 is just. The 65, you also lose the light gathering. Yeah. And it's lighter, but it. Yeah. Like if you're going for a moose hunt up in the Yukon, you don't need a 95. You're going to tell it. You probably don't need much more than a bino. You see plywood out there. Anywhere further than a mile, you don't even go after it. Right, Devin? Yeah. I mean. You don't go. When we were up there, Wyatt brought his ATX and a 65, and I never saw it once. No. We used our 10s and 15s. Yeah. Well, a moose, you've got 60, 70. I guess there again, it kind of depends on the hunt you're on. Definitely. If you're in a tree stand for whiteys, we're using an 8. You're hitting chamois in New Zealand, you might want a 95. You'll be able to tell if it's a. What? 10-inch or an 8.5. 8.5 or 10-inch chamois.

I still don't know if I can tell the difference. All right. Keep going. Question reader guy. What obtainable bucket list hunt are you planning to do in the next few years?

Obtainable. Oh, geez.

I'm not starting.

John. Yeah, I don't know. In the next few years? Few? Let's put it. I don't know. I guess three. The next few years? The next few years?

I don't know. I'm doing the whitetail this year. That was kind of one of those next few years type plans. Is it also bucket list? Well, Iowa, Canada. I mean, yeah. I mean, a bucket list giant at some point. Huh? You're right. 200-inch white tail or something. Black tail? Black tail? Yeah. Really? I'm thinking about that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've done it, but I want to kill a giant. Black tail? What's a giant? Yeah, Oregon. I've been up there screwing around. Up in the jungle. Yeah. You need to know somebody. You need to phone a friend. You know, if you want a good one. Okay. All right. What about you guys? Josh, what are you going to do? I've kind of roped into some of your plans as well early on in the year. What do you mean? I'm probably going to be Alberta. Oh. Following you. Yeah. Following you through the Canadian bush. I just wasn't following you.

Did you forget you had a travel partner?

Stow away? He's running with you up there, boss. I'm just glad he's still planning on going at this point. Oh, come on. What do you mean? What do you mean? You're going? I didn't think you're going. I never change my plans. I booked that spot with another guy. So, no. That'll be a good one. It's going to be awesome. Hopefully a big Canadian whitetail in the future. That's kind of a bucket list thing that was, I guess, obtainable now. It's going to be awesome. I don't know. Bronson, what are you going to do? Bear. Why do I have to go there? You're going to do something like that. I can feel it. No, it's not. I don't have that itch yet. I don't know. Just haven't got that itch. Another two hundo? Those are attainable, of course. But that's hopefully every year I have a hunt with a potential of that. So, I don't know if that counts for, I don't know.

In all honesty, I've done enough sheep hunts that if I am going next year. But that's a different story. But I don't need to do another one of those, I guess. I hope to, but they're, I don't know. It wasn't what it was 10 years ago. Put it that way. So, I'm back, honestly, to hunting big deer and elk. It probably gets me more excited than anything right now. I know. Sheep are great. It's just the cost of them. And I've been fortunate to go up a number of times, you know, for a couple stones. It's like I'm, at today's prices, I just can't justify some of them. And so, I don't even really think about them like I used to. Cash, you got any bucket list items? Alaskan caribou. There you go. That would be one that I'd love to do. Yeah. It seems like Wyatt, we could speak for him on that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'd like to pull a goat tag somewhere. Yeah, that'd be cool to do that. Pull.

Well, either draw or buy or who knows what. Well, John, we know people. Yeah, I know. We're talking about the next five years. Let's make it happen. How far out, Devin, do you think? Oh, we could ask. If you said today, I want to go on a mountain goat hunt, what year do you think you're looking at booking a goat hunt for? 2024. Next year. John? Yeah, it's a possibility. A is in the next few years. B, I think it's obtainable. It's obtainable. Yeah. Make it happen. Okay. Let's do it. I like spending people's points and people's money. Devin and then Logan. This is obtainable. I would like to draw something that is a surprise.

You know what I mean? I want to get lucky on something. Draw a random tag? A shotgun. Yeah, something. Something like, I don't know. Like what your brother's been drawing? Yeah. Honestly, that charges me up as much as anything. I would like something you don't deserve. Yes. You weren't thinking, I'm going to draw this. You check something and you're like, what? You know? Wow. Or you get a phone call. Or a phone call. Yeah. Like a raffle or something. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Are we going to dive into that? Sure.

Go for it, Bob. What do you mean? What's your most epic hunt of the year, Bronson, for this year? Oh, is that? Oh, wait. No. It's just my question. Is this the next question? No. It's just my personal question. Oh. I thought we were going off of the list. This next one. This next one we're probably going to have to skip for another day. Yeah, that's going to be deep. Which one? That's for our podcast where we each tell one story. Let's just stop. Let's just. Oh. Yeah. That one's lengthy. Most epic hunt of your past. Tell the story. I think we should do that. That would be a standalone podcast. We should. A standalone podcast. When Wyatt needs to be here, too. Maybe we'll do that one September 1.

Okay. Let's do it. Okay. Sounds good. Standalone podcast. Let's do that. Make plans there, Logan. All right. Next one. Question reader guy. It's house in. Whatever that is. What? No. It's Instagram handle. I don't make them. I just say them. Outdoor.

Should two points or younger deer not be included in the management hunt? They should not be included. They should not, but you can't. They should not be. Different people. Oh, meaning. And ideally, you wouldn't be shooting a forky until he's matured enough to know that he's going to be. He's got bad genetics. Should they not be included? I don't think they should, but I mean. How do you keep them out? You can't exclude them either. I've got a picture of a two point that needs to be killed. Yeah. I showed you that. Yeah. I saw it the other day. I mean, that thing. He's that tall and he's a pot belly. And we've, we all. Yeah. But I mean, he's like five, six, eight. Who knows? Years old. But I would say. In general, you're saying you're. But young. On management hunts, I think most people kill older deer. I would say. That's the intent of them.

But I would contend in some cases they've lingered a little longer, like in Utah. Not. I don't even know if another state even has them. But the average hunter, and we're just talking about the guy that stays in Utah, only hunts Utah, whatever, whatever the home state is. You know, he could, if he shot a forky and a yearling was not, or a, you know, one to two year old deer was not acceptable for that particular tag. How, how, how are you going to, how are you going to teach people that that's a young deer? That that's a young deer with potential instead of an old deer? You know, like that's the point of you can't, you can't exclude them, right? No. No. You can't exclude a year and a half old deer. How do you do it? You can't. Well, I didn't know it was a year and a half old deer. I didn't ask him what his age was. Some people just can't see it. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And most of these management style hunts, I don't know, I can't speak for all of them, but the ones in Utah in particular, the tag numbers are so limited that if somebody does happen to kill a two year old two point deer, it's not overall going to affect the population. There were a few years where they stayed high and it kind of became a problem. Because I think they killed a lot of two and three year old deer on the hitters for a few years. Three by fours with potential. Just a buck that hasn't even had a chance to manifest any kind of what he's really going to be. So the idea of it when they first started out was it was, you know, in theory on paper. Nobody else is shooting. Yes. On the trophy tags. One horn ram hunts in Nevada. Yeah. Whatever. Similar type stuff. Utilize the resource. People love it. But maybe a trophy tag, you know, a regular tag on the Henrys or whatever.

You know, people wouldn't shoot a forky on an old forky or whatever. Anyway. Yeah. So technically, I mean, you know, ideally you want a three and a half, four and a half, five and a half year old deer. That's, you know, whatever. Three points on one side. Okay. Here we go. Okay. Jake. Firestone. M.T. asks, there is a two-week deer hunt in September and you get two weeks of vacation. Would you scout a week and hunt a week or hunting two weeks with no scouting? High country muley hunt. You get two weeks. When are you going to burn them? I'd go five days early before the hunt. I don't think I'd go a whole week. Or hunt eight, nine. Yeah. Five and nine or whatever that works to be. Yeah. 14 days. I like that. Five's a lot. It's a lot. A week is even more. If you get five solid days of scouting, that's a lot. But the answer is, though, don't show up the night before the opener and start.

You want some. Whether it's five or seven days, I would take that, too. Because part of that, you get them in their normal pattern before the pressure really shows up. And then you can, if you've found one, target bunker two. It makes you stay there. Yeah, it makes you stay. He's here somewhere. He's just dug in the timber, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I tell guys that a lot on, like, October 5th rifle hunts. If they're going to start on the opener, it's better to go three days early than hunt the whole eight days you have or whatever. The pressure pushes them in the trees for a minute. They're just cautious. And you wouldn't know to stick it out. And there's, frankly, yeah, an opening day. Smash and grab. Yeah. With a little bit of scouting. That's right. With a buck you know right where to be. Yep. I like it. I've done that in Colorado before, that four-season buck. I mean, yeah.

You know. Yeah. If I wasn't there and knew he was there, he would have been dead. Well, he already got missed by a guy the morning I killed him. So, I mean, there's multiple times that I've seen a deer a day or two before that I, all right, if I want that deer, I'm going to better be on him. And you cross a lot of country after a list of checking that you're in the right place during the hunt with a rifle or bow or whatever in your hand. Does anybody have a different take on that? Nope. Two weeks with a gun in your hand is not terrible either. The second week, it's going to be different than the first week. But two weeks of high country, everyday hunting. Early season. A lot of guys can't do. I mean, mentally, physically. I'd say most. It's hard. I mean, I don't. Oh, yeah. If you've got self-service and a little bit of Instagram, why, maybe. Yeah. But it's hard to do. It's hard to do.

And a good variety of freeze-dried. Yeah. It keeps you up there. Now, if you just had straight Snickers, hopefully at least. It's probably not going to last too long. At least one tree for some shade, you know? Yeah. So, for you guys, how long before you're going crazy? For me, it's seven days. If I'm there, seven days. Hunting? Hunting. Straight.

You know? It also depends if you're seeing and hunting or, like, you're both stalking the deer every other day and it's happening. Right. If you go four or five days, you blow the deer and don't see them for four or five, that gets to be a rep. But sometimes you need a little bit of a reset. I killed that Forks buck on day eight. And I felt like that was a chunk of time. I felt like. Like, it was. Which buck? Forks. Deep Fork sucker. Oh, archery. You know? Yeah, archery. Especially. And it was. But it was. Day straight? Eight straight? It was just a lot. It's just a lot. Were you hunting him? Remind me. Were you seeing him most every day or every other day? No, just. But we also could run cameras during the season. And so. Kept you nowhere. He's coming. Yes. He's still here. You know, that confidence. He's coming at night. He's coming at night. We just didn't see him today.

He just wasn't right in front and visible today. I just remember hunting you and I did, like, 2012. Same tag. And I just remember our target bucks. Oh, yeah. We were lucky to see him. We had, like, five wide open. You and I had, like, three or four other people glassing. And it would be sometimes three days before we'd see one of the deer. And it's the most wide open, glassable country in the world. I think of that all the time. We had two of us and three to four others. We had AZ Buck, we called. Yeah. And then the one you killed. We had typical. We had. Now, other bucks, too. But only two deer. It was kind of a drier year in 2012. It wasn't a stellar year. That AZ Buck was a stud. I drew a tag. But anyway, it was sometimes three to four days before we'd even see one of the two bucks. Yeah. And it was the most glassable country.

Running the generator in the trailer in the day with the AC on. Remember? You couldn't get out of it. No. A hundred and five. No. Anyway. So, yeah. But then the next day you'd see him and it was like, game on. One of us would have a stock. Yes. And then that wouldn't go good. And then there's three to four days. There was a shot you should have made. What was that shot? I was alone. About 70 yards, 67. Yeah. Well, I wasn't alone. But I found the deer and I bedded him. Yes. And I texted. I think it was Chris. Yeah. I said, I need somebody to get out here and spot for me. Yeah. I got the buck bedded. And this is only one hour and a half. We were there. I think I watched it. Yeah. I was there too. No. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. You came in from above it. No, that's the one I kicked. That was down the knife. The rock and I. Oh. That was down the knife back on AZ. And I had the.

Well, remember the rock. I stepped on a rock and it teetered. I had to jump off it. And a boulder this side rolled down right over the deer and about hit it. You remember that? I do. And I just like. I finally see you there after four days. Hits it in the ear and knocks it out. Remember it almost kills it. You guys said it went right over the ledge. It was bedded right up under about. It was under the ledge at the base of that giant mountain. And you were going along eye level with him all across. And I'm jumping on boulders because you're in socks. I'm in my heavy socks. And you're quiet on rocks. You're cat-like. Until, whoa, this is rolling. And I jumped off the back and just went. And we were all like. And I just said. We were all like. It's over, boys. And they're like, what do you mean? And then they started hearing it with their own ears. Like 1,400 yards away. Finally we're like.

Fine, we'll go sit under the AC again. That was. The other three days. So that's not the deer I was talking about. But I had a shot. It's one of those deer. You know, 60 or 70. I think that was actually on the deer I ended up with the muzzle. I think that was him. That I blew the boulder on. Yeah. The AZ buck. We call him the big wide deer. I had him better. But I was. I know I was alone that day. Because it was deep into the hunt. 15 plus days. And, you know. I thought we saw. I thought we could see him. And you. We were like. He's going to kill that deer. And then you elected not to shoot. Or something. And anyway. The best chance I had. I was alone. And I had to call. The spotter to come out. And Chris got there. And he watched while I made stock. And. And the deer was feeding towards me. At about 60 or 70. Face buried. And he's the leader of the pack. The big. But I'm like.

He's bringing them all right to me. So. We're killing him. I'm knocked up. He's like. We're going to wait. I'm waiting. And right then. All the other. Turn around. Went over the ridge. And he picked his head up. And saw that left. He did an about face. And walked over the ridge. So. It was the end of it. You never know when you're. Best and only shot. And 60 is a. Not an easy shot. Not like. No. But you could have made it. No problem. Not like I said. Guaranteed dead deer. But like. Right. Feeding. Broadside faced. I couldn't even see his head. He's buried in a bitter breath. Shoot that deer. And I just wish I had that over. Because. But he's feeding my way. And he's been coming that way. For 80 yards. Over the ridge. Like. 10 more. And I'm not letting him get any closer. You know. You just. You're feeling that. Mental. Mental. You never know. When you're. When you're only.

Or your best shot. Just left you. 33 inch. Walks away. Never. Over the hill. I never shot an arrow on that. Shot. Yeah. All right. Okay. I don't know why we got talking about that. All right. Question. Question reader guy. Okay. It's House and Outdoors. Asks. Should suppressors be allowed while hunting big game? Are they not? What do you think Josh? Yeah. Of course. I don't. It doesn't change anything. No. Although it doesn't. Run everything out of the canyon you're shooting in. Yeah. You know. I guess. But it's not like it gives you a real leg up. It just allows it so you're not blowing your ears out. Right. I don't. I view that on the spectrum of technology advancements that are too much. That are giving the game the advantage. It's way low in my opinion. Yeah. I mean it's more for the shooter. Yeah. Just more for our comfort. Your ears.

And it does not rock everything out of the canyon as much. But compared to whether it be optics. Whether it be thermal. Whether it be you know. Baiting. Yeah. All the other things. Whatever. Cameras. That I think really give a lot more advantage. Yeah. I don't know how much of the advantage it gives you. I don't think your gun doesn't shoot better with a suppressor. The only thing is just. Yeah. When you. When you're shooting them like they don't leave. Recoil the noise. It makes it recoil. More pleasant. Experience. You get back on the animal faster. Just everything. Seems like. So we agree. They should be allowed. They should be allowed. I don't have a problem. No problem personally. Okay. Underscore Brando underscore D asks. You don't have a bull elk tag for this season. What would you guys do to get one? Talking about this year for this guy. Well let's see.

What did you do this morning Josh? Bought an elk tag. Hey. What tag did you get? Did you get a bull elk tag or the regular? Oh he spent the money. Oh yeah. Hey I heard. It still hurts. I heard something. You've got a great bargain. I heard from. Was it $200? No. Well I had. I heard from somebody today that because you know when the fees came out early in the year it was their $150. And then they bought it today it was $200. Yeah. Because the license fee increases in Utah. The legislature passes going to fake July 1. Oh. And it went up $50. Game of fish. They're static right now. He called. Oh he did. Oh he chewed up Mike. How do you bait switch? He's like well legislature does our permit fees and they go up there on July 1. Yeah. It was a surprise. That's what you got surprised today. You could have got one for $50 or three for $200. $56 I heard it went. $56. $56.

And he's like yeah I'd have told you if I'd have known that I'd have bought the $56. Because he had a buddy. I don't know. I don't know if it was in line or whatever. He only wants one of the seasons. No he wanted the multi but then when he found out it went to $200 he would have just bought the $56. But his buddy had the instructions to get the multi. So his buddy bought it for him at $200.

And now he's like I'd have just bought the $56 and called one hunt good enough. Somebody else is going to do your dirty work. You just got to accept it. That's exactly right. So Josh they got a couple of well they actually got four bills out of your family. Yeah they got a few. Did they? No. I like it. This is the spike. Pull some of that good old penguage money out. What's that? No this is for rifle today in Utah. Archery's are unlimited. Archery's unlimited. And youth. So a youth could go on and buy. I didn't just do archery. Archery. Yeah. So archery in Utah. So I guess the answer is I mean. You got one? I have an oak tech. Just archery. Awesome. You're going to what? I have an oak tech so I don't need to answer this. Yeah. My kids got an oak tech. There's some general stuff out there. You just. I mean it's just like this spike thing we talked about. It's a spike bull. It's nothing.

It's not sexy. I mean. But the thing about it is sometimes if you don't have much it might be your excuse to get out. Yeah. But at the same time it's a hunt I like to use for potential scouting purposes. I was going to say about you. You hunt a unit that you. Not every year but more often than not hunt on a general season deer. So you're out in the mountain. I already have a deer tag. Hunting with a bow. Hunting with a rifle. That's my kids. Learning deer. My kids got archery because they have tags. Yeah. And it's teaching them how to. I mean you're getting archery experience. You don't often get that very often. So you get a spot stock. You can call a little bit. Even though it might be a spike or you can even kill a cow if you wanted with it. Please don't. I mean I have standards. You had some fun. I have standards. I'm going for an 8 inch or plus.

Plus have you ever tried to haul a 14 inch spike or what? How big a spike are you holding out for? Not the lead cow. Have you ever tried to haul out a lead cow yourself? They're like 7,000 pounds. I'd rather shoot a spike any day. Some of these late cow hunts that you've done. 18 year old cow. The biggest elk I've ever shot in my life. It's a 26 year old huttered up cow.

Some of those lead cows deserve a bullet though. I will say. Drop a bomb on that. It ruined a lot of hunts. I can think of a few in September that I'd love to catch up. If I was to drop a bomb on a mom, I could think of a few cows. A lead cow in archery season. You'd drop one on a grandma. I would. Well like these white-tailed states like Iowa that force you to pay another 100 something bucks for a doe just to draw. If they added one of those on like an Arizona elk, at some point a cow would die. That blew the bull, right? Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Yes. I could think of a couple. I think we all can. I have just frustration. Then you'd be like, what did I just do? So going down his question, what other states can we actually do? Colorado. There's line number two. Colorado is for an over-the-counter town. Over-the-counter. Yeah.

I'm going to pay thousands of dollars for landowner tags. A good option. It makes your $200 tag look pretty awesome. Yeah. I went over there and blew some money because I saw a phantom bull.

That's true. I saw a bull and I'm like, I have to have it. Yeah. I would have killed it if I'd have a tag in my pocket. Yeah. Or at least shot at it. Or if Walmart could issue a tag faster. Well, geez. Our printer's broken, sir. It wasn't even that. I don't want to see where I am. What do you mean? Oh, yeah. You're going to have to see Game and Fish tomorrow. That's another day. Wasn't it like a Monday? My eyes weren't so bloodshot, man. Which is my own fault. I could see the screen, man. I thought it was. I used to be a tweaker, man. You just tweaked out, man. I just had these brownies on my break, man. I've been rocking these brownies. I'm running these greenest brown brownies. Have you ever had these gummies? Here, man. Just have a good one. Anyway. We are in Colorado. What else is up? Colorado. Is there anything? Like Idaho, if you turn back the second draw. But you're not going to.

The second draw odds are terrible in Idaho. But hey, some people draw tags. But turn back list in Colorado. Play that. Colorado is going to be your last option this time of year. Yeah. I mean. Pretty much. A mature bull is going to be a little tougher. Hey, some of these guys are doing OTC in Arizona. How about that? Not I, said the cow. People are doing it. I mean. Killing. Half developed bulls. Yeah. I don't. Yeah. Come on. A quarter. Find another solution. Well, anyway. All right. Okay. Oh, this one's a good one. Pistol underscore sand says, Ancient 180 typical buck. Last day of Colorado third. Will Carter smash it or do mulies matter?

Mulies matter, man. Right? Hey. Hey. He's ancient. Have I done it? He's ancient. Nine year old. He's not young. I know. And I think it's awesome. And if you were to smash one, if a guy were to smash one, smash that one. Smash an ancient one. Like, that's awesome. That's awesome. Personally, you know, I'll probably let it go. Maybe next year. He's going to ask us. Personally, I was waiting for him to say, well, how's it built?

It's true, though. Christmas tree eye guards. It's only true. He's only 21 inches wide. There's 180 bucks that we've all seen that you've got to have. He's 36 inches wide. Oh, stupid. Yeah. I'd shoot it right now. Slick shank. I got a 32. But still goes 180. I got a 32-inch or like that. You're, okay, so let's just talk about Devin's buck. Which one? The boxy 188, 187. Jeez. Which one? Oh. Good grief. Well, but that isn't a 180. That's one of the best looking deer I've seen. It's 188. That was day four. Day four. And when you shot it and you were sending out the photos, we were all just like, jeez. Even despite Dad's tape being used, it was still, it was big. Yeah. Regardless of what Dad's tape said it was. You could have said it was 210. Slick shank. What do you mean? He did. And it looked it. Well, he was like, you were showing I-90s or 200. It was like 204 or something. 205.

And we were like, it looked it. Oh. We didn't even question it. Well, when your tape starts at one, that's what you get. I know. It wasn't your fault. It wasn't. I'm not even saying it was your fault, Jason. Wait. It's 188. Add 15 inches. That's how many measurements you get. And then we got back and, yeah, remasured it. Luckily, yeah. It didn't matter. It was later that day. I was like, this is it. I guess that's what my point is, is that tape doesn't matter on that deer. No. Yeah. There's not. I mean, there's bucks I have killed that maybe have extra stuff or whatever. If he was standing next to him, I'd still shoot the slick shank four point. You would shoot the slick shank four over that Nevada buck, for example. Oh, yeah. And that Nevada buck was ancient, too. Even the six by six, probably. The three. Yeah. All four of those in your office? Probably. That typical buck.

The six by six is cool, though. Fort four is a cool buck. It is. It's hard to. It depends on how they're built. That's your answer? That's right. It does. It will. It kind of does depend on how they're built. Say he's a three point that's like 23 inches wide. He's got four stack kickers. Three point and 23. Probably not. He said four stack cheaters on both sides. Crazy pipe mass. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Pipe mass two point. The pass gets it. Six inch eye guards with chicken feet hanging off. I'm in the stupid mass. There's some bucks that I would shoot just for the eye guards and saw off the rest. Yeah, see? And use them as a door handle, right? Put them on your cap. Well, this says typical, though. He did say typical. Just like your classic 180. If I knew it's 100, you know, I mean, I don't know. Again, you're filling that tag. If you've got another hour, it's the best hour of the day, really.

The last hour is the best hour. Nobody's in the field. It's the latest possible. I don't know. I'll just go ahead and answer and say, no, he's not going to. We've had videos come through on text messages. I should have shot a book typical. I don't know what that one was. I don't know. He had a cheater, but he was bigger than 180. But that was like day one or two, though. Yeah, that was early. A little bit different. It was grossed. Way bigger. Huh? Yeah, I feel bad about that. Well, but it was early. If that was on day six or seven, you'd have smashed it. You would have guaranteed. The problem with those Colorado deer. That was a 190 plus deer for sure. Oh, yeah. But the problem with them is they're body size. So, like, you think it's such, you know, whatever. Whatever you think it is, and then you walk up on them, and they're like ground gainage. You know what I mean? They're steers.

Yeah. They just got bigger bodies than we're used to in Nevada. Nevada, you got a little dainty deer with. Anyway. You know, right? Am I wrong? No, you're not wrong. So. All right. Daws underscore 90 asks, what's the best tasting monster? The cookie monster. I was going to say big old fat antelope buck. Oh, white. Oh, white. I have white. But this, what do we call it, the patriotic pack that's going around right now, four whites, four reds, and four blues in the 12 packers. They're pretty good. They are good. I like them all. I like the blues and reds, and I've never tried. I like a white in the morning, and then I like a blue or red or purple. Purple and orange in the middle of the day. I don't know why. The white in the morning, though, is geez. Good grief. Don't get started. It's not good. They're not healthy for you. They do have some pretty amazing vitamins. But geez.

And then orange, when it's really hot, it's 100 degrees. That orange is freaking good. And then purple is always good. Oh, yeah. So this is interesting. I totally read that question different. I was thinking, what monster animal? Me too. I read it the same way. That's why Devin chopped it with antelope. I was in there. Start drinking some oil. I get it. Devin. I was thinking antelope. I was teased. Wait, you weren't all about Devin and antelope meat, but his true colors came through right there. I'm just saying. I cooked these back straps, and they blew my mind. And I'm just, I want more antelope. Speaking of, does anybody here have an antelope? I don't think we do, do we? No. Nobody. You can't. And if they did, they would say it. Yeah. But I mean, I think everybody's had, well, we've had two or three years, it seems like, for the last two, three years. I turned one back. What?

The minute I drew it. Oh, yeah. I mean, we're talking within an hour. You pushed it back before you even had to pay for it. I was going to kill a giant. Well, it was 20-something points. The saga continues. You call it back. How many times has this happened? Or two or three, at least. Just when they all of a sudden went to non-resident quotas, you know, instead of having us all in the same place. You beat the system. And you showed you beat the system. I proved it, and now I'm fulfilled. It's just early, early in the spring when your mind's like, oh, yeah, I'd do that. I'm going to do that. You talk yourself into it. My biggest problem is I want to do everything. And here I am, 20 years later, still trying to do everything. You know what I mean? I got tags in precarious places. That's the next question, I think. The next question is strictly for Wyatt.

This is kind of something I feel like he's... Slow rolling the pines? Yeah. Luke M. Tingey says, tips for scouting bucks that live in Ponderosa Pine Country. I love it when Wyatt says, slow roll the pines. He is the master. And there's validity to it. And honestly, that's about all you can do. If it's been raining a bunch and you have a chance to get out there and actually still hunt and walk. But if it's not, you don't have any other better option than slow roll. You remember in Arizona walking through those pondos? It sounded like we're walking on tinfoil. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're wasting your time. Yeah. But slow roll? Preferably in a pickup truck. What kind you run? Wouldn't you agree? Yeah. It just depends on... Whatever truck you're running. I guess it just depends on... Well, right. Why is it that... Like some of these guys run electric bikes and stuff like that.

But animals hate stuff that's sneaky. Like a Segway? Just on a Segway? Could you imagine?

Could you imagine? My kids can run those little one-wheeled Segways. Yeah, yeah. All right. You guys got any more tips? Because I think there's also feed within... There's places that, just like everywhere in the world, we have places and units that always produce, it seems like, big deer or big elk. Like this is a common place. There's been this buck, this buck, this buck killed in this particular burn or this particular area or whatever. And I think it's the same thing with the ponderosa. There are places on the Caio Bab that seem to be always good. And there's places two miles away that look exactly the same that you've never seen a buck in. Yes. And you're just like, how? You know what I mean? And I think that comes with just the intimate knowledge, the local knowledge of an area. And then how to hunt that. How do you best hunt that? Are you going to Elmer Fudd it and walk around?

Well, I think you could scout it that way because, honestly, slow rolling it, you see what you see and you don't see what's 100 yards off the road. But if you do see areas that are loaded with bitter brush and all that, which ponderosa pines and a lot of areas can be fairly loaded. In other areas, there's none. But if you get in those bitter brush areas, there's plenty of tracks and they're big here. All right. At least you have, you know, a reason to believe they're feeding here repeatedly or living here versus the other stuff that they don't even walk in. And get aggressive with it because early, they're going to, you're going to bump up, but they're going to readjust. That's what I mean. You could jump one in July and early August. It doesn't affect your hunt one bit. Yeah. So grind it out. Hike the crap out of it. Grind it out. Learn it.

And then, like, yes, for some reason they like this ridge, this ridge. Might find a few waters, you know, ridge lines that are coming off the ridge down. Or just something. For some reason, a place they like to bed. Yeah. And I like what you said about the rain. Because after it rains in those pondos, you're a ghost. Anywhere. It's like. You can do anything. It's the best. If it rains, you've got a chance. Even pinjuniper, you've got a chance in that stuff. For sure. Like, which normally, pinjuniper has a lot of open dirt and rot. It doesn't have as much ground cover. So it's normally loud until it rains sometimes. And then you've got a chance.

Okay. Speaking of, it's getting to be monsoon season. It's starting to pop it. I love it. Pop it. I love it. It was nice. Yesterday, I about got pounded. Like, it was. I was on it with a t-shirt, right? And I had no other clothing. What? In a side-by-side open cap? Yeah. Okay. I wondered, like, why is he telling me what he's wearing? Because there was an open cap. It was an open cap, side-by-side. I get it now. 60 mile an hour. Now I get it. I'm going into this black wall. And a black wall. You'll be a drowned rat. Oh. And I'm like, I'm going into the ice. The ice of the storm. And it happens out there. It happens. It's monsoon season. It's crazy. Now it makes sense. But it feels good. It's like you guys said, boy, that's kind of a refreshing picture right there. And it does feel good. Geez. I like. If you're in the cab of your truck, it feels a lot better. That's what you mean.

But in some of these units, well, some of these units are, I mean, are prone to more monsoon. I like that about places like Unit 231 in Nevada. I love that about it. It is. It rains there when it doesn't rain anywhere else. And I like it. Boulder Mountain in southern Utah. It does. It's such a huge part. It's such a huge part. It's sometimes after a little. Yeah, they love it. They always do. They're frolicking. Up and down a couple times. Freshens the tracks up. Any of these words trigger you, Pollock? Frolick? I'm good. No problem. Good with that. Okay. Yep. Watch for Deer asks, what elevation should I be looking for bucks second and third season Colorado? I had a guy ask me this. He says he hears stuff that, you know, on second is really, you know, is up high versus hunting the traditional winter range stuff. I told him, you know, look low, but it depends on the year.

It depends on the weather and the year. And look low for a minute. If you don't like it, go high. Do both. Whatever. You're going to have them scattered from 10,000 to 7,000. It's harder to hunt high generally because they're usually not above timberline. Right. Second season where you can actually glass them. They're usually in mid zone, which is usually thick. That's the hard part about it. And they're coming low depending on the year. That's a hard, if they stay high, they're usually not above timberline because usually that's the first frost, all that burn, you know, dead, kill everything up there, right? Yep. So usually that's not a feed source any much in late October, early November. So they're going to drop down in the, you know, Aspen, spruce, fir zone. That's a tough zone. I mean, I've hunted that 10,000 feet and killed bucks on fourth season before in Colorado

because we just had to keep going higher until we found deer. And that's, that was rough. Mid-November hunting to 10,000 feet. I mean, they should be down sniffing does in 7,000 foot winter range. Yeah. So I don't know. And obviously every unit, Western Colorado, close to Utah, you know, certain units don't get above 8,000 or 9,000 feet as high as they get. But other units, that's the winter range, you know, Gunnison. So it's kind of hard to just say one elevation to spread across because Gunnison, the lowest elevation is 8 or 85 most units. And that's the summer range on a few of the Western Colorado units. So I'd say 8 to 10, and I know that's still big range, but. Oh, I agree. 10 and under. Yeah. It could be, you could have a town buck at 7,700 feet or whatever, depending on the town. You know what I mean? But 10,000, there'll be bucks at 10,000. There will be, and a little bit higher.

But I mean, I contend feed sources decay, whatever the word is, really high. Yeah. You've had way too many hard freezes by late October for them to want to be up there. Yeah. I think sometimes you can get a little bit of an early migration on some units, and some of that stuff will trigger that. It's not necessarily a depth of snow. It's a feed issue, and if it freezes, then some of those deer just say, I'm done. There's nothing brown and dead up here. So they'll just go. They don't have to have snow to push them, and that's unit by unit. Yeah, totally depends. All right. Let's just finish this page. Yeah, absolutely. We've got about 14 podcasts in this cluster. We'll hurry and get these last few. Okay. Nick Wysocki says, Kooz glass, 12 NLs and a 95 STX, or 10s on your chest, 15 SLCs and 95. I think 10s on your chest are useless, personally. Yeah. Hunting Kooz deer. Yeah. I would say-

Don't you? Oh, the 12 NL on a tripod is where we would choose. But sometimes that three power, I mean, I could see on a Kooz deer, but generally those 12s, we would choose the 12s over the 15s. We do. I've had 15s that haven't been used for two, whenever the NLs came out, two and a half years, whatever it is. They're crisper. Three years. It's clearer, and so you don't feel like you're losing three power. It does. It's- Yeah. That's the fact. Yeah. Try it. And the color, the color is so much- And then you have a chest vinyl. You have a chest vinyl and a tripod vinyl. So, I just think 10s for Kooz deer on your chest, you just, that's a waste of a piece of glass. Yeah. Unless you're a bull hunter and you're in the trees. I mean, I guess we're assuming you're rifle hunting Kooz deer. Guys are using BTX, too, like, you know, Kooz deer guys, pretty beefy glass.

If you have it, I don't know that I'd go out and buy it for that necessarily, but- If you hunt them repeatedly, you should. If you hunt them once every 10 years, it's hard to justify it. Kooz deer guides, Kooz deer hunters live behind a BTX. 12 NLs and the 95, and that would go for mule deer, Kooz deer, elk, or anything, pretty much. That's what we're using right now. Except I'd probably switch that S to an A, though. Yeah, I'm not reading this right. Come on. Yeah, I don't. What's that? I'm with you. Angle. This says STX. It should be ATX. No. I'm guessing that was a typo when it was typed up. I agree, Josh. He must have accidentally ASD. That guy knows all the benefits of an S. Nobody's out there looking for pots of gold somewhere. Monoculars. Periscope. Hey, I've got an angled Harpy, I'll say.

Harpy has only come in angled, and I thought I could get used to it. Harpy is- Hey, now it's on the podcast. It's been used. Has it even been in the field? Yeah. Yeah, it has, but not- Maybe half a day. Truck glass. It's awesome. You'll make a great deal with somebody? Is that what you're saying? That glass is superior to anything else, but I cannot get used to the angled. You'll sell it. So, anyway. Email Jason. Sell it. Yeah. Seriously. This is not a joke, right? No, it's no joke. Okay. It's an incredible glass. Oh. It is. Just they only make it in angled. If you put them side by side, it'll suppress anything. It's just, geez. It's crooked. That's all. Yeah. It's just, I'm a straight guy. Okay. Let's move along. Jeff. Jeff McCunker 88 says, best tripod for a Vortex Razor HD 85 millimeter. Spotting scope. How about this? How about we got some epic tripods coming?

That's going to be the best for everything. You just said that. We do. We got them coming. We ordered pallets.

There you hear. You heard it here first. Probably. Did I do something bad? No. Am I going to get a pink slip? No. No. No. But hey. So, yeah. I guess to answer your question. Regardless of this Vortex Razor. If you had an 85, that's a bigger spotting scope. Not normally used for exclusively a backpacking situation. You might use it on a backpacking. Like a little Gitzo tripod that we've had for backpacking in our day. You could get by with it. When we do. Even if they're 95s. We use them at times and we just can't pack the weight. But you need a, there's a, what we call a kind of a medium tripod. It would be the day pack truck tripod. We may have named it. What did we name it? Are we going to divulge that? No. Well, I don't know. Go ahead. No. I don't remember what name it was. I want to risk the pink slip. You guys gave me a look like, geez. No. No, that's just the.

You guys are going to clear out my desk tomorrow. No. Absolutely not. We're actually within maybe a month-ish. Could be. We are coming out with our own tripod line. That's right. There you are. It's going to be awesome. The tough part about tripods is there's so many of them. And they each have their own little ins and outs and buttons and things. We tweaked it for our use. And some people could probably look at them and like, I don't, that's what I don't like in a tripod. Okay. It's going to light. Who's going to do that? I don't know. None of us here in this room. But somebody. We got a light one and a normal day hiker. You know, just a normal tripod that we use for daily use. Anything two hour hiking under. You can throw a BTX on it to an LP or whatever. Or somebody that's right-handed but pans to the left and left eye dominant or something

like that and pans up and down versus left, right. I mean, somebody might have a problem. Okay. There's any scenario. It reminds me of Chris shooting a gun that I shoot my right-handed rifle, but he's left-handed. And left-eyed. But he's right-eyed. So I think he's right-eyed. What is he, John? He's only got a left eye. So that's why he shoots left-handed. So that's why he shoots left-handed. But he's right-handed. So he likes a right-handed gun. He's right-handed when he rides and eats and all that stuff. But yeah, when he was 10, he put a knife in his eye. Yeah. Just a little paring knife. And I still remember. You guys think a couple little scars are cool? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So his left eye is his good eye. And he's right-handed. So we had to force him to shoot because that's what he sees good with. But his body all wants to run the boat with his right hand. And it is.

So that reminds me of this. Whatever you're describing, this janky. That guy's going to look at our tripod and say, that's all bass awkward.

I don't know. I don't know. All right. But hey, it's coming. Stay tuned. Stay tuned on that. And that's another question. Logan says we get a lot. Where's Chris? So anyway, Chris still does freelance for us and works for us. Actually puts a lot of our story, composition, whatever that term in art department is called, right? Composition of the stories. Yeah. Yeah. He works on a lot of that. He's got a heck of a great knack for all the art stuff. Look and feel and turning words and pictures into. Works in John's department. Yep. Still does a great job. But he's also got a lot of other things going on in life. Yeah. He's subcontracts to us. It's awesome. He subcontracts to us. But man, he is singing like crazy. He's doing concerts all over the West. Yeah. And so, yeah. He's spreading his wings a little bit. But still worked for us. They got their fingers in 14 pots.

We're just glad he's still. Well, he got married a year ago. Was it just last summer? He got married a year ago. So, right? Was it one year ago? It might be two now. I don't know. I don't know. It's been a couple. Yeah, two years. I want to say two. I want to say two. It was two, three. Yeah. So, but he's running hard. He has an antelope tag. How long have you been married? How long have you been married? Two years? Three. Okay. Did he get married a year after you? I believe so. Yeah. Yeah. He did not get married. You guys didn't get all married. Do you know how fast I answered that? You know your relationship. Points for you. But if it is four, you're dead.

Two years, 11 months, and come on. It was August. Three weeks. Well, you know that? Yeah. Well, him and Wyatt got married like within three days. Early August is all I remember. Remember? I was gone. This year's cutting it close. How old were you? Was that 20? The COVID year. Year of COVID. 2020. It lasted for 10 years, I think. It was 2020. Yeah. The heat of it. So how did you, how old were you when you got married?

I'll be rough. 31. Okay. Right? And Wyatt was? 33. And you guys went to college together in your 20s, early 20s. For a long time. How is it that you get married? You both meet the one. Bless my wife's heart. I put her through some seasons. Do you know what I mean? But how is it that you and Wyatt decided to get married within a week of each other? Because once August 10th hits, we're waiting another year. I think it's an amazing phenomenon. I'd like to know more about it. It is true. There was an excuse. I had to wait for some snow to melt to do some things. Oh, yeah. I remember that. Trail cams. Yeah. I had pre-carved the tree. Oh, I remember. Now I know where her trail cam scare comes from. Exactly. What's a scare? She doesn't like going with them in the mountains. Because she's scared the cameras are on random trees. Yeah. She's like, don't you think somebody's going to get my picture?

I'm like, no. There's not cameras everywhere. I promise. Give a little back story. He had a sting operation on his proposal. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. I've been spooked ever since. Do you hide cameras in the house? Do you have random cameras? No, but get this. Last weekend, she says, I don't want to go over there. There's probably cameras. I'm like, there's not trail cameras everywhere. She goes over there. And there is one. I found a camera. She did. And I'm like, bull crap. There's no water. It's just like an old camp spot. She's like, it's creepy over here. And there's like an old sheep herder bed. And then an old mattress frame tied with ropes hanging. And I was like, where's the camera? She goes, right here. And it was an actual camera. A Kodak camera. Disposable. No. Devin has the phone. I mean, it had a screen. Oh, a digital. Digital camera. And I'm like, what?

After I tell her, there's no cameras. Did you pull my SD card? That was missing. I checked. That can't be covered in the Antiquities Act because digital cameras are post-date. How weird is that, though? That's weird. The weirdest crap happens to you, Devin. It's true. But this is from a guy that starts off with a sting operation trail cameraing his proposal in the mountains. And wonders why his wife's spooked of trail cameras when she doesn't expect them. That's very true. Devin gets chased by a turkey, looks into the soul of an owl. They were speaking to each other. Their souls were speaking to each other. And his wife's night blinded from IR. You know. Flashes. All right. All right, guys. All right. This is probably the last one for this one. This is an easy one. Hunter for Life. Yeah. Hunter for Life 87. Why is it that point creep was so much more apparent this year in Arizona?

I think the anticipated antler growth, the low tag numbers, but yet we've kind of got past this drought era. And it feels like there's decent numbers of wildlife in conjunction with the antler growth, in conjunction with people are knowledgeable now realizing that they are never going to draw the strip tag. That's right. They're not going to draw a late tieback. We're talking on deer on that. Those are all factors. On elk, we saw it happen, too. You had the elk dates move a week later on the archery. Yes. On top of the wet year. On top of moisture. And people, the same thing. Like, I'm not going to catch those 20-point units. I'm at 16 or 18. I'm not catching the 21 or two. It's a Chia Pet year, and people are just wanting to go. The demand for tags is higher than ever, and the availability is less than that.

Well, in a lot of these units with, say, 100 to 150 elk tags, you're talking with 10 to 15 non-resident, but half of that in the max point pool. So you're talking about five to seven tags. You can change the point level needed to draw in nothing. With a group of three people putting in with 18 points. And it happened. For theory. Yeah. And it happened. Yeah. We know people. Yeah. None of us here, but I mean, we know groups of three with 17, 18. Kind of coming out of blue and doing something different because they're wanting to force a draw on a year when they need to be there. And when people aren't thinking, when people are thinking, I have just enough to draw, and this is my year I'm going to do it, and then they act shocked that they don't get it. You've got to be. More people, though, I think are being less concerned to that.

It used to be people want to come in by the skin of their teeth on a 10-point unit, and I had 10 points. Wyoming out comes to mind. But it feels like people are realizing, and like, I don't care that I got 20 or 19 for the Kaibab early. Right. I want to hunt this year. Took 13 last year. Well, especially when you look at what it's been taken. And now lower tags, lower tag numbers than ever on the Kaibab. Repeatedly for a couple of years. Well, we've gone back, Jason, in our life, 15, 20 years. Oh. There used to be over the count. And there was 1,000 early tags. Yeah. 15 to 20 years. Last time I heard that, I think there was 750. What's that? Last time I hunted it, it was 700. Yeah. Like 750. And then you take that and do a 10% non-resident quota. And then, you know, and then half. Of the 350, so you've got 17. 35.

Max point tags. Max point tags. And then you. It doesn't take very many in the whole world to have 17 guys. Yeah. There's just, people are more educated than ever. We're also more educated on moisture and the effects of that on antler growth. Well, and we've also been penned up. A lot of people penned up the last two or three in those days. During the drought. Pulled back. Ah, not it. And this is the year I've been waiting. And now they're just raring. With less tags than ever. It's just, there's a number of reasons. I don't blame anybody for doing what they did. No. I, in fact, either in print or on the podcast, we've encouraged it. Be realistic on what you're going to get. We know max point holders that did the Kaiba blade, you know, which, I mean, instead of waiting for the infamous stroke. Well, we know guys with 20, 23, and 4 that did that. Yeah. Early. On the early. On the early.

What was it? You need at least 19? 19 and a half. Partial of 19. 19 and 20. 20 was guaranteed. Yeah. Last year it was 13, 14. 13-ish. 12A West? Early. Which one are you talking about? 12A West? I think it was on 13 last year. So, yeah, you're just, anyway, you know, just, it's just interesting. Nothing, it was more apparent, let's call it that. He's saying, why, why is it that it was such, you know, more apparent than this year in Arizona specifically? We're seeing it dang near everywhere. It just feels like tags are being restricted, long-term drought, winter kills, things like that. But if you look at the tag numbers for the, we'll call them the top tier quality deer units in Arizona for non-residents. The Kaibab is the highest at 35 non-resident tags. Half of those, 17, can go to that. On an early hunt. On the early. There's only 17.

You look at Colorado, you have multiple units that have 30 to 50 or 100 non-resident tags being drawn. It's really hard to change. It's hard to change that. Point creep, we've seen a lot of units come down. Depending on the unit. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, Colorado, we see it every year. Oh, we can come down this year. Some units came down a lot, like the point creep happened heavy a couple years ago. But you also, like what we're talking about with elk being a later season and all of a sudden everybody wanting to make sure they get into the rut. Same thing with deer. Deer were later. So now you've got more rut potential. Kaibab moved six days. It goes into the what? Fifth or sixth? I don't know what it is. You've got late season dates. You've got great antler growth. You've got low pressure in the field, lower pressure than there's ever been. It's just kind of ripe and everybody realized that.

And then Colorado, that happened two years ago? Three years ago, roughly. Two to three, when you had the really late dates kick in and everybody jumped in. And then you've just seen. You're seeing some relaxation. Because people have burned them. Yeah. And you just have way more tags in Colorado to satisfy the crossover outliers with high numbers of points. Arizona, you know, you get a dozen crossover outliers of 20 points that not daggers your tags. Yeah. Because you've got strip. What do you got? Five, six, six tags on 13B. There's just no options. There's no tags. There's no, the very top tier units, there's just, there's very few options. You've got the early Kaibab and three, three C. You've got the whole state, but we're talking about a 15th of state. Yeah. You've got three, three C with a hundred tags. So there's five max point non-resents on three, three C.

And the difference in quality is, there's quite a difference. More of an upside of it. Really elite deer on the Kaibab. Yeah. Great chance 170, 180 bucks on three, three C. And people want to go hunt the famous Kaibab. You waiting that long? You know, I want to go, I want to hunt that. You know, just experience it. Whatever. Maybe. So those are some of our thoughts on why. You talk about other areas. I talked to a guy and I could be off, you know, a point or two, but he didn't draw the same hunt, that Penguich Lake muzzleloader elk hunt in Utah. And he had 24, I think, and didn't draw this year. What did you draw with? I drew with 18 two years ago. So he had 22 points that year. But we knew this was going to happen. But you were privy, John, to some info that that unit was peaking. Well, the other thing is, is you had the early rifle in your time.

You had an early rifle that had a lengthy season. Now we've got early rifle kicking down to five days. You've got the muzzleloader that's been somewhat prime. Twelve days now. And you've got people worried with the mid rifle and this December archery and all of these things that they're just thinking that the elk are great now, but aren't always going to be great. And so I need to burn my points. And muzzleloader is the best season. Seems like a natural. And we've got, we can use scope still. At some point that might end. And so they're thinking, okay, this is my chance. So there's a rush. You have a rush. And then you have a point jump that's somewhat uncontrollable. You know?

It's crazy. A lot of variables. True that. Yep. The one interesting, well, anyway. Got to finish it. No, just what we talked about. There were some surprises on the mid rifle, on the elk. You know, there were some things. And if you think outside the box and you can, and we help guys all the time, think outside the box. Think about all these different variables and then come down to a collective. This is my decision. This is what I'm going to apply for. And this is why. And kind of projection. I think that's kind of what we're good at is projecting. Not that we nail it every time. You know? But, you know, it's kind of projecting these particular season dates and how that's going to affect your hunt and what it means and throwing in a full moon here and there or whatever. You know what I mean? So, you know, all these variables go into what am I going to do and what year am I going

to burn my points. And hopefully you do the right thing and make the most of it. So, anyway. Josh, you've been thinking, did I use a word that triggered you? No. No. I'm just thinking I probably ought to run. We're about there.

Well, we've got another what? 17 pages. Three pages. Yeah. There's some good ones. There's a few in here. Dressed. You know, what tags did Jason have for deer tags in in the future? I love it when he gets nervous. Ha ha. That's from a buddy. Who got nervous? Just the next page. Just he loves when you get hot mic. We about went there with me earlier, but then you moved off subject. Oh, are we going back to that subject? What are you most looking forward to this year, Batson? New Mexico deer hunting. I like it. I like it. There is a question about this later. What? There is? New Mexico deer hunting. We can dive into it. What's the best rifle deer unit? Where is it? That's rifle deer hunt in New Mexico. Oh, it's. Let's just do that. Middle. Middle of page two. Oh, the best one would be like drawing the raffle tag. Okay. Check.

Whoa. I hope we got an announcement, Bronson. Extended season dates. I like it. Let's go there. Let's get this out of the way. You really.

How much tweaking did you have to do to your schedule? Bronson draws the raffle. Not a lot. Not a lot. Governor deer tag in New Mexico. Everything was set, and you get a call out of the blue. I think it was June 30th. I mean, what is it now? July 20th? This just barely happens is what I'm trying to say. My season was 100% set. Arizona shut the door. I had false hope of anything, but I used to have hope. So, that was my last what if, you know, I draw a tag that I shouldn't draw, like you're saying. Yes. And then I got a – I was scouting about it. I got a – I actually got a voicemail. I didn't get a live person telling me. It was a voicemail that said, I got good news. Yeah, you forwarded me the voicemail. I forwarded people. And in an odd way, it's not an uncommon thing to get a call from somebody in New Mexico this time.

Well, we would have already been calling – you know, we call enough outfitters and landowner something tags. Missed call 505, I just – Whatever. That's nothing. It was that time of year where, you know, had a few callbacks from landowners. Jeez. But, yeah, changed my – So, here you go. It went from a very, you know, almost nothing, you know, a forced dry oak tag in Colorado, general season deer tag, and trying to supplement it with a landowner tag because I don't feel like that's enough like a Nevada, and then look for something in Colorado. Every state gives raffles, special raffle tag or two. Well, we just got done. Not many. It's interesting. Do you remember when did Nevada Dream close? That day, like the 30th? Yeah. Like we just did a podcast and we're talking about, hey, it's one of the last hurrahs, and you don't expect you're going to draw. No.

But, hey, I had a guy hit me a week after that. He drew the oak tag, remember. So, I got the call. And, yeah, it changed my life. You drew a New Mexico for five months. A New Mexico governor deer tag. The. The. Only. So – And we had a story last year from a member from Texas, Jared Hicks. Oh, I got this question. Yeah. That drew it last year. His story was in last year. So, it's just pretty humbling, really. And he killed a freaking giant. And you killed it on a Chia Pet your – or, excuse me, drew it. He did. He did. You drew it on a Chia Pet. I hope. I mean, I don't think it's bad. Everybody's told me it should be great. And I – to answer your question, Devin, I – obviously, you can start in September. I don't have plans to have a September one buck found because I have way too much going on.

Already – already in stone between, you know, Nevada, Utah, you know, Colorado elk starts the first of September. Not that that would trump something that showed up in New Mexico. But basically put out a bunch of feeders with people I know. And then, hopefully, many of us at this table, if we've got time, we're going to head to the land of enchantment sometime in the rut. If you've got two weeks, which two weeks are you going to choose? Right before the late archery. December. I was going to say December 1 to 15 is what I was going to say. You'd be down there with the youth. And a laptop for the magazine. I wouldn't want to shoot a buck out from under a youth. Throw you youth out. That's John. They don't deserve it anymore. Take it. Talk me into it. Push them. Push them. Take it. Yeah, you push them down and shoot over their heads. They've got a lot more opportunity in years than you do.

Push them down. That's right. That's not what I meant. I'm just saying. Walk over top of them. Yeah, push them down. Tag it. They're little. Tag and drag. You're big. Tag and drag. I like it. So anyway, it's still really sunk in. It's really been, but the paper came in the mail while we went on vacation. I got one when it's there, so I got it. It's awesome. Wow. So it's pretty surreal because, I mean. Let's do this. When there's only one of something, like, I mean, I applied for the sheep down there. I don't do every state raffle, but I'll put several hundred dollars in some of that elite sheep, like New Mexico sheep or Montana sheep, maybe. Well, Arizona's different because you can't hunt all the elite ones. We're always trying to put our names in the hat. Stuff that I want. But, like, there's some states. I don't play Washington, Oregon, nothing against them. I just, I don't. But I do.

You know, Idaho, I did win a super tag, went up there one year, but they draw 10 of those. So it's a little bit, a little different, maybe. Eight on the first draw, yeah. I've drawn several of those, too. Elk and a deer, too. Yeah, elk and two deer. Yeah. So, overall, you'd never expect it. And, you know, just like the people we called for our hunt giveaway, they don't expect that call either. That was, I never win anything. You screened her call like some guy's screen hours because they don't recognize it or whatever. Yeah, I didn't even. I got the message sometime when I'm driving and had some service. But then when I saw my phone that it was there. Was that before the AC went out or after the AC? I had no AC. But that was actually in June 30th, and it hadn't even got hot yet. So I just drove around the windows down about cool 75, 80. You probably went and found service real fast.

Well, I didn't have service, yeah. When I saw it and could listen to it, I didn't have service. Got driven through service, boom, comes through, and then it left service again. So, yeah, that's why I am freaking out. If anybody hears of a giant, call in. We're interested. Bronson, you're interested. Let my agent know Jason Muley Carter. Run him by me. Triple I guards, pipe mass, 35 wide. In lines, hangers. And a drop time. What? Picks or it didn't happen. Absolutely. I don't chase rumors. Send picks. Jason at epicoutdoors.com. It's going to be fun. I mean, I'm going to. I'm so excited for it. It's legit. It's going to be pretty. Fun. I mean, I anticipate it wearing me and maybe us out. Whoever's going to go down a few different times. But we're going to be in a hurry. Going to shoot the right deer. We're going to finish your truck off. It's been worn. I might have to buy a new one before.

We were looking at your truck. And if you look in the front, there's like a chipmunk nest in front of the radiator. Have you driven out in the prairie right now? The grass is this high. It's stupid. I've got it in every radiator. And try getting those out. You pop your hood. Yeah. And it's covered. You can't reach in. I know. The ones with like the big long twigs. I think it's needle and thread. They are sharp. You need to put leathers on first. Is that needle and thread, Josh? You need to put leathers on first. I did let the grass about this high. And the seeds. Actually, this week when I went out, most of them are off now. So the stalks of the grass are there. But those seeds are falling off. Your truck's full. It's scary. I'm afraid it's going to catch on fire. Yeah. Oh, I've done it. A friend of mine said he had a fire extinguisher in his truck.

And I thought that was a pretty good idea. Yeah. Well, yeah. I was thinking of my truck. But yeah, I don't want to start a wildfire either. And, you know, have to outrun it. All right. Let's call it. We good? We good. It's awesome. Have a great weekend, everybody. You Utah people, have a great holiday celebration. Have a good weekend. We'll be back here next week. Yeah. Round two and three with these other questions. All right. We'd like to thank all of our sponsors here at Epic Outdoors. For top of the line hunting, clothing, and apparel in every environment, visit UnderArmor.com. We'd like to thank Under Armour for being our title sponsor and making this podcast happen. Visit our website, EpicOutdoors.com, for discount codes to Under Armour hunting apparel. Handcrafted, quality, precision rifles from start to finish.

Red Rock Precision is one of our sponsors, and many of our staff uses Red Rock rifles. Visit RedRockPrecision.com to find out more. If you're in the market for a hunting property, our sponsor at St. James Sporting Properties specialize in premier hunting properties throughout the West. Check out available hunting properties at StJamesSportingProperties.com. Good looking, comfortable camo describes Kuyu. The new bush pants from Kuyu keep your legs comfortable while walking through the thorns and bristles. Visit Kuyu.com for sizing and prices. Kennetrek makes great boots for any situation. Most sheep hunters in the high, rocky altitudes use these boots to keep their ankles in check on the rough terrain. Visit Kennetrek.com to learn more. We at Epic Outdoors are a fierce firearms dealer and have many popular models in stock and ready to ship.

Call us if you would like help deciding which options are right for you. Fierce Long Range Rifles are a great rifle and many of our employees here use them. Visit FierceArms.com to learn more. Triple S Polaris specializes in custom setup hunting side-by-sides. They deliver right to your door nationwide. Visit SSSPolaris.com to learn more. For affordable, long-range rifles and shooting schools, visit ThompsonLongRange.com. Thank you to Phonescope, the best camera optic adapter out there. Phonescope makes high-quality phone cases and optics adapters. Visit Phonescope.com to learn more. Stealth Cam has high-quality, durable trail cameras that we all love to use.

Check them out at www.stealthcam.com or call us to order today. Here at Epic Optics, we are a verified dealer for Swarovski, Zeiss, Leica, Vortex, Stealth Cam, and more. Call us today to visit about the available optics we have and what would be right for you. Or visit EpicOptics.com. For only $150 a year, you get nine issues of the Epic Outdoors magazine and unlimited access to our hunt consultants, as well as access to our verified research website. To see all the other member benefits, visit EpicOutdoors.com. If you hunt multiple states, our services are essential. The Epic Outdoors license application service is for you if you ever miss deadlines or would like help developing your long, medium, and short-term license application goals. Give us a call today at 435-263-0777 to learn more.