EP: 295 Colorado Grizzlies? What Trips Our Mule Deer Triggers and Upcoming Whitetail Hunts

Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, Cash, Wyatt, Josh, and Logan, how y'all doing today? Good. Good. Great. Yeah. Yeah. Really good. Yeah. Good. Toward the end of the long haul work. Hey, I just want to know, have you missed the office? How does it feel to be in the office? I'm not going to lie. It's hard to get back in the flow. I mean, I feel like I've been gone probably more than anyone, and I appreciate all you've done to keep the oiled machine running. Hey, I like it. But I mean. Keep going.

You're buying lunch. You're buying lunch from a firm next to a row. It's been a rough two and a half days. Let's just say the same light switch works for mine and his office. The light bulbs would not work anymore when he came to turn back on if I wouldn't have been turning them on.

The ballast would have went dormant. Pretty black in that corner. Rusty wires. That was a good run. What? The one you had. The good run on the field. Define good. Just define good. Because there were good. I guess long run? Long run. There were good moments, and there were some. I know this. He's going to make some adjustments. You know what's funny is when we get done, Adam, every single year, you guys, every single year, it's like I made all the wrong decisions, and next year I'm going to make all the right decisions. These are the things I'm not going to do again. And we don't do the same things, but we hate our lives at the end of every year. We do different bad things. Yeah. Make bad choices all the time. Right? Yeah. Not intentional, but. New plans. New years require new plans. And I can't wait for the new plan. I want to help you make your plan. I've got some things in mind.

For what? Hunting? Yeah. Species? Mm-hmm. Species and sexes? Does and bucks?

Does and bucks? No. We. Crosses and stags and stuff? You said. Oh, yeah. Horn game. Horn game and stags. Let's just say he was full panic mode yesterday. You guys, what do I do? It's just. What do I do? And it's like, what do you mean the year's not quite over yet? Yeah. Still. You got one of the best tags in the world in your pocket still. If somebody would have had a mildly decent hunt yesterday, they could have sold anything. Oh. Bronson. Well, Wyatt's trying to do me to do a grand slam of antelope in like six states next year. That was his first idea. I like that. And then he went from there to waterfowl. So that's how. Waterfowl? Emperor goose applications in Alaska. Yeah. Like Wyatt, I got off with a bang and I hunted one day and killed a great buck. And that feels like two years ago now. It does. It is amazing that you both did that. Yeah. But how long ago does that feel like?

It feels like forever ago. Because Wyatt, you've had a kid and haven't been sleeping for two, three months. How long does that feel? Wait, wait, wait. Wyatt had his first babysitting stint. Oh, yeah. Women hate it how you call it babysitting. Don't call it that, Wyatt. If you have, you know you've made a mistake. But just don't say. Because it's not babysitting when you're babysitting your own kid. That's right. But there's no guy out there that doesn't feel like they're babysitting. But you had the solo. Solo adventure. Yeah. The solo adventure. Wyatt's so funny. I'm going to talk about it because he won't. He's like, I want him to just sit next to me and like, you have your chair. I have my chair. We both look at social media and everybody's happy.

What is he? Is he even three months? Is he almost? He's almost two months. Is it August or September? September. Where did you have him? September 17th. Oh, wow. It's my birthday. I forgot. Well, I'm thinking August. So we're still shy. I was thinking August. Bronson's been in the field a while. No. I just remember. On his deer hunt, we were on pins and needles. Well, yeah. Because she was threatening to go early. Yeah. And it was like, I just have August 20th-ish in my mind. But anyway. So there's the other month. I see him. So he's two. So you're not yet to the point you can take that big plunger of rice cereal and force it down his throat and let him sleep through the night. Bronson says, this thing should be eating meat already. I'm like, it's only two months old, boss. But I just remember. That was a moment. I think it was about three months. Hey, I'm not your pediatrician.

I'm just giving general advice here. But yeah. When they can do that, they sleep better through the night. Rice cereal. You throw a little solid in their gut, it's better. They have those big shot needles. Mental notes right now. Taking mental notes. Oh, you look like you are. Ask for another solo night and see what you can get away with. I'm going to ask Jana if Jason even knows a thing he's talking about. And I don't. I'm going to freely admit right now, I don't. Well, I just remember. It felt. I remember this. Minutes add up. I remember this. We were young and broke. And we had our first kid. And I was getting the credit card bills. And they were, you know, it wasn't. We didn't have credit card debt per se. But just, we used a credit card to buy stuff. And I was wondering what these Walmart, all these Walmart charges were, right? I'm like, what is this? And she goes, it's divers.

Diapers. And I was looking at the receipts. And it was disposable diapers. Well, I was raised on cloth diapers. Don't tell me you brought this up. I did. Oh, I said, why can't we do cloth diapers? My mom did. Oh, my gosh.

Okay. Not good. Not good. That's as bad as said. Not good. Hey, let me babysit the kid. I'll put him in cloth diapers. Her point's, what kind of optics are you using? How many extra guns do you have? Because we're going to sell them so I can have disposable diapers. Whatever we need to do. And I'm like, yeah, no problem. I like them. I like the role of them. Anyway, just saying, Wyatt, don't tell her she needs to go back to cloth diapers and wash them and reuse them. Well, I don't tell her much.

Yes, ma'am. You sound like a hunter in the middle of hunting season. Yes, ma'am. Do what I'm told. Did you go trick-or-treating? That's very important. Did he get dressed up? He did get dressed up. He was a bat. Yep. We did go up to the in-laws. Did you dress up? No, I did not. But did you walk around the neighborhoods with him? No, we stayed indoors. Trump-or-treat or just in the house? The family came through. Oh, yeah. Family members, things like that. We stayed home. That's good. Two months. Yeah. Did Case like it? Yeah, I think he enjoyed it. Did you get it? Did he even get a taste of like a sucker? Something. I mean, just something that you could just give him a lick. I don't think he's had anything besides milk. I was going to say. You've got to get that changed. It's their first. He's pure. Like, he's the purest gutted child there is in America. I know.

I mean, but I mean, it's just fun when they can start eating stuff. It is fun. By the time they have their fifth one, you know, it'll be eating Skittles already by the time it's two months. Wyatt, have you got four or five more names picked out? No. All right. Let's move on. All right. So here we are. We're back in the office just for a quick minute. And then a lot of us are going back out. And so we're trying to get this December magazine done in fast, fast, quick order of time. A lot going on. And just wanted to kind of have a podcast because we have a decent crew in the office today. Of course, it's getting toward the end of the day. But anyway, I guess we should talk about some hunting experiences, Josh. We were kind of thinking about starting with you, but I don't know. We don't have to. Bronson, what do you think? Him, Rakesh, and then you. I don't know. You've had one.

What do you mean? Let's see if we can get through these two first and we'll save mine. Maybe. We'll see how much time. Okay. But we can do whatever. I'm open. I'm free game. I'm good. So Cash and Josh and his brother, you guys went to Colorado already, right? Yeah. Yep. Smoked some bucks. Yeah. Cash, go ahead. No. Josh, I mean. I'm going to back up. I talked on the last episode. You did? We did. Sorry. And Adam missed it. So I think you're all up. I think you're up. That's a good point, Cash. It's a good point. Was this on the... Hey. It was on the Epic Outdoors podcast. Yes. It was. By the way, I didn't get to do this. Hello, everybody. My name is Adam. Welcome back. Hi, Adam. Hi, Adam. Hi. All right. Now that we all know each other, what are we going to talk about today? Sounds like Josh has got a couple of buck stories. I've got one quick story. About a buck. What do you mean?

You don't have two stories? No. Josh, you don't have two stories? Okay. Tell us one story, and then we're going to play a quick game. Go ahead. No. Yeah. My brother and I, we got lucky and got some tags in Colorado this year. And so we went over there second season. Your brother owes you. We're talking leftover turn back. You helped him get the tag, right? No. So he got his first. He got his first. Oh, okay. He got his first week it came out. And I said, well, I guess that's what we'll try for. You know, none of us expected to get one. Yeah. And so it was a week or two later, and then I got one. It's awesome. You know, it was kind of like one of those, we'll try for a decent unit that we, you know, they've never been to it. You've never been to the unit before. Learn more. Yeah. So, but we thought, anyway, we'll go ahead and just try something else. So, yeah, we went over there.

We thought it was going to line up perfect. Obviously, a pretty giant snowstorm came through there. It was so unbelievable. Yeah. For central Colorado. Yeah. It was pretty big. I know there was three feet in the mountains and better. You were hiking your guts off. Yeah. Well, it was weird because, so opening day of the hunt, it just rained all day long, which actually, actually in a way, it was kind of nice for the fact that we weren't able to get out there days in advance kind of thing. So it was actually perfect. We just kind of stayed in the truck and went and hit four or five spots that, that we wanted to just look at to see, which it was nice because we were able to check some stuff off the list that we didn't go back to that we thought were possibilities. So it narrowed down to like, oh, say three areas. And we just thought we'd go to that.

So then, but then that switched to snow that night. And then that, that's where it kind of got a little bit crazy because as you guys know, in Colorado, just, I don't know. I don't, I don't know. Like there's some serious elk hunters over there. Um, they'll break a truck, they'll break trucks and Jeeps down for cars. And I saw, I saw trucks on roads that it was just unbelievable. I mean, we, we took Friday night, we got up there and we took this road and it was the rockiest road I've ever been in my life. Pretty much straight up. At one point, I didn't, I didn't tell my brother, we were in my brother side by side. And at one point when we were going up through there, I literally, I didn't show my cards, but I had my hand on the door handle. Cause I'm like, if this thing starts to go, he's go. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

I was like, he's going, I'm just going to sit here on the hillside and watch it go. Like it was pretty sketchy. But anyway, we get up there and we were thinking, wow, can we survive that? You know? And all of a sudden we come around the corner and here's like three wall tents. I'm kidding you. A Ford F-250. Oh, a four door long bed diesel Dodge truck. Like a 1984 Suburban that's even longer. And they'd gone up this road. And it was to the point, the turns were hairpin turns to where even in the side by side, you'd have to go up kind of back a little to get around them. I don't know. And that was the only road up on that mountain. Wow. So pretty mind blowing. Those guys over there, they're pretty nuts. All hunting cowl. Yeah. Oh yeah. I'm sure. I'm sure. Yeah. But, um, but then, yeah. So anyway, it was just kind of a storm that just made everything nasty for a couple of days.

A couple of roads were blocked. You had to, then there were guys that were parking and walking around them for miles. Cause they were stuck in the road. Cause they only had a truck. Yeah. They were, there were trucks literally just stuck. You could go on either side of them. They were stuck in the road and basically had to wait till it froze. And that was three days later. Your camp was right out the door. Yes. They literally threw the tent two feet from, from the truck door. I get up and I go to shovel. Yes, exactly. They didn't hunt. I mean, they didn't hunt for three days. It was a, it was a huge rut. The truck was completely, um, just, it was like buried slashed high centered. They were cutting logs, hauling them down the mountain on a four wheeler. There's no winching. There's no help. No. And that's the thing. Your point is you either call a tow truck or we just. Yeah.

And we felt back. Could you drive around them? Yeah. You could. Luckily in that spot you could. Okay. With the side by side only. Like no truck. But there were guys in trucks who were having to park down the road. Did you at least toss them a drink as you drove by? We weren't very good. I had things. Bugs to kill. Yeah. With an ass. I was. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I was. Anyway. I mean, it was one of those things that you clearly, you could tell like, that's not, there's nothing we could have done. If I can lend you a hand for an hour, we'll get you out fine. We can help. You need a tow truck. You need a freeze. Yeah. You actually need the freeze. Yes. It was three days. They were jacking it up, putting logs under it, basically building a new road. And enough to get four chains on it. And then it froze. And they were able to pull out once it froze. But just some of that kind of stuff.

It's just wild over there. Well, we were talking earlier, Carter, like there was during that weekend, it was the Monday, Tuesday of that weekend, even in Utah, I was guiding desert sheep, but I've had my stuff packed for two months. I've been running from personal hunts to sheep hunts. And I have my, call it early season gear. Right. Yeah. And that Monday, Tuesday, I was caught. I was caught. And I froze to death. Because I hadn't yet switched the brain to Colorado, Wyoming, late season. And I froze. But anyway. So kind of the same thing. You feel it's the first. And it was a big storm. It was a, well, you guys had the other podcast that talked about how severe it was in the high country of Colorado. So it was a, it wasn't a dusting. It wasn't a little dusting. It was a, it was a sloppy, muddy mess. No, we were down low and we had 10 inches at our camp. And we were fairly low.

It melted fairly fast down there, but still it just makes everything muddy and stuff for a while. But, but yeah, we hunted and, and it, you know, it pushed a lot of deer out of the really high stuff, but you still, we still were hiking high and knee deep snow going to 10,000 feet because it pushes them out of 12,000 to 10, you know. Yeah. And so, yeah, it was good. Saw, saw, learned a lot about it, but it was pretty crazy. It took three or four days for those deer to, for the storm to stop, for them to get up and I think decide it's time to go. This is enough. So it didn't happen as fast as I thought. We were thinking by, I mean, the hunt started Saturday. We're like, oh yeah, by Monday we're going to be covered up in deer. And it wasn't the case. It wasn't until. It didn't feel like that anywhere really. Yeah.

We, I, I, we all, we all thought, oh, what is going to happen and call that out. And it felt like, yeah, it just gradually warmed up and it was kind of tough again. Well, yeah, because those deer, they were coming down to like 9,000 feet and there was still green grass under the snow. You could see dandelions and things like that. Cause it had warmed up so fast. Like it went from fall to winter. That's what I find interesting is you hunted all elevations. Oh yeah. Yep. And it was all over the place. And so we kind of started high, I guess you could say we, well, we started kind of low around thinking no stuff's going to show up and it clearly wasn't. So then we went as high as we dared, I guess you could say. Um, and then just, just worked lower and lowers and deer started to show up low. Um, but anyway, we were, yeah, find, found, finally found a spot and, uh, kind of actually

do we decide, we're like, let's just go find some food. You know, we're like, these deer are probably going to be hungry. Anyway, got into the oaks, have a pile of acorns on them this year. So went down there and yeah, I was with my brother. We separated and just started hiking some ridges out. And he calls me on the phone and, and, uh, he's like, Hey, if I shoot a buck, will you help me pack him out? And I'm like, well, why are you calling me? What kind of questions? Yeah. That's why we're here. Yeah. But we kind of did have a gentleman agreement. Like, well, let's just like, what size of buck would, would you guys, neither of you shoot? We were saying like a one 180 plus in depending on the situation. Okay. Cause we'll get to that later. Otherwise, if it's 170 plus, you're going to keep hunting and let him pack his own deer out. It's kind of no, well, maybe, I don't know.

Maybe unless it's, oh yeah. Close to a road, whatever. But I just didn't know what gentleman's agreement. You mentioned that. What? It was informal. We're not, we're not shooting this or below. And the other thing was a lot of it was so thick of oak. Like it was just a nightmare too. It wasn't just. Like make sure it's worth it. Yes. Yeah. We want to make sure. Yeah. It wasn't the distance. It needs to have an inline or something. It does. Or a big typical. Because that makes a difference. Yeah. And, uh, so, so anyway, he calls me and I'm like, well, yeah, how big do you think it is? He's like, I don't know. He's big. I'm like, well then yeah, shoot him. Thump him. So he shot and, and he calls back and says that he'd hit him and stuff. So I hiked back up over to where he was at and back then, then kind of just sat on the

side by side, waiting to hear what he needed or what did he mean to do? And he calls, he says, oh, he's back up again. He's back up. And I was like, oh crap. So I just hurried and took off and went down there. Anyway, he'd hit him. He'd just hit him, hit him low. And the buck really couldn't go anywhere or do anything, but, um, he was still very much alive. So we had to go finish him off. And at what point were we trying to get this OTC Arizona? Yeah. During all this. So my recalling the whole time, the whole time. And he kept putting us off like, dude, I'm certain I got a big buck in my sight. Yeah. Which you're basically just saying, I'm not going to let the buck get away. No, I don't want to shoot my brother's buck, but I'm not going to let him get away. Because he's in thick oak brush and you lose sight of him walking up on the deer. Yeah.

So he was going to have to go 400 yards down and across his canyon and would not be able to see him until he got within 50 yards of him the whole time. So I stayed on the point and I just got down on my gun and had it. These guys need a yes or no and they need a V code and an expiration date from you. We do. No, actually we took care of that. We actually just needed his ID number and his birthday. Wyatt. Wyatt has all my information. Really? Oh. Without Josh even knowing it. That was the requirement. I had to give all my honey CIDs. Do you have mine, Wyatt? Oh, come on. For sure he does. I don't know. I'm just wondering. Okay. No, I'm just teasing. Because you guys were calling me apparently, but I had no missed calls. Call it. Yeah, you did. You weren't in service, boss. Oh, okay. All right. Anyway. We had to FaceTime Devin. Devin was on silent.

So finally Wyatt thought, I'm going to try FaceTiming him. So pretty soon they're FaceTiming. He's out in the hills of Nevada. He's like, dude, these Arizona tags are going left and right. Do you want one or not? So anyway. You're telling us hold on for a minute while Wyatt and I are watching hundreds of tags disappear. And they're like, but these tags are going. I'm like, but I've got a 200-inch deer in the scope that I don't want to move. I've got a bird in the head. I've got a priority here. Do you want one or not? Stop calling me. So I hang up. And you want me to go to the bush and I've got a bird in my head. My brother's calling me. They're calling me. I'm trying to make sure the deer doesn't stand up. I almost thought at one point when I finally got a good enough look at him, I was kind of like, I'm just going to shoot this deer and cut my tag. And he's not going to have an option.

Last bullet. He lifted his head. Hey, last bullet. Yeah, I'm giving the old RM Benedict.

Sorry, I might have cut that. Anyway, so I was just like. We covered that topic. So anyway, I was going to kill him and cut my tag at one point. But anyway, I just waited for him. The deer couldn't get up and he went over and got him killed. And it was awesome. Yeah, it was awesome. A three by four. Oh, I mean, yeah. He had a score. Busted. Yeah, he was a giant four, but busted to a three by four basically. He could score on 194 inches. Yeah. Yeah. As he was broken. Jeez. A tank. Did he have fat? Oh, yeah. Fatter than fat. Fat, fat. Yeah. He looked pretty like in his prime. Was he fairly five and a half years old? He was five, six year old there probably. He just looked at his teeth. I mean, he was immature. That's rare. It's awesome. Oh, he looked awesome. It's just what you could call it out. Oh, it is. Yeah. Yeah. So you helped him pack it out and all was well. Yeah.

Got him out and all was good. So, yeah. Jason. And what? Well, I think you saw a big bear. Well, yeah. That was. The first confirmed grizzly study in Colorado since 1937. What bear you've ever seen? And you were like the bear biologist for all intents and purposes. Well, yeah. For many years. Yeah. As a biologist, I had bears and saw a lot. And it was gigantic. I mean, we were down there glassing the next day and glassed him up. I thought it was a cow at first. Jeez. And he stuck his head up. I'm like, that's a bear. So then we were sitting there in the process of trying to figure out, because I have never got a bear tag in Colorado. I've never really dreamed of it or thought about it. Well, you didn't have one. And now they're trying to give them away. Yeah. They're basically a hundred and something bucks. Yeah.

And so then we're sitting there on the side of the mountain trying to decide. And the season's going. We needed to go down, get one physically printed. It's kind of like shooting a coyote in your honey hole. Yeah. You know what I mean? And the thing was, too, just the way it was, we'd have to get it checked in. And a lot of those kind of things. You'd have to eat the meat. Yeah. And it was a Friday. There's some real questions. Yeah. It was a Friday. Weekend's coming up, too. Yeah. So now it might turn into staying. It happened to stay around for Monday. Yeah. A hundred percent. So you got to check a bear in. We sat and talked about all that stuff. And it wasn't just simple like, oh, we're going to shoot him, run down, get his hide off. But yeah, it's a once in a lifetime bear. I mean, well over 20 inch skull. I guarantee you that. Oh, he was. And anyway, so. But we ended up.

We decided not to so you could hunt deer and then keep going. You're hunting deer. Now you're back to hunting deer. Yeah. So we didn't want the deer hunt to turn into a bear hunt. So you go around the corner. Yes. We actually decided in the end, we're like, we're going to make it happen. Whatever. We're going to kill this bear at least. So we went to take off to go to town. And we actually ran into two other hunters. A guy and his daughter.

And they were from Utah. She has a bear tag or they have a bear tag. Yeah. Yep. They, they, she has a bear tag and I was like, okay, do you have a bear tag? Like I asked her and she was like, oh yeah, yeah. I said, do you want to go kill a giant bear? She's like, yeah, absolutely. So. I only want cubs. Yeah. So we, we went back and, and, and got down on him and stuff. And unfortunately she, she missed him, but it was a, it was a big old. It solved your problem in a way because like if they killed it, like, all right, we can go back to deer hunt. It's their problem now. And if you would have killed it, so you got a big bear. Now what? Not that big a deal. Exactly. Exactly. We got a world-class bear. It's like anything. Antelope, bear. Anything big, you appreciate. You do. You do. I didn't even see air under his leg. No. Under his belly, the ground. You know, when have you never seen that?

I don't know. The legs were on the ground. The bears I see have long legs. The bears, the belly was so low. And big ears. I didn't, you could not see under his belly. It's true. Yep. And he was giant. I mean, it wasn't just like, oh, I had a weird angle and he had six inches. Let's keep talking about what a mistake you made. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I should have shot him. Should have shot him. So. Anyway. But you made up for it and you ended up smashing a deer. How'd that go? Then you had a gun that hadn't been shot or killed an animal. Oh, good point. That was, that was, that was the game I was going to play. Yeah. Like, like. Let's play it. Have you guys ever been, like, when you're hunting, whatever you're hunting, deer, elk, antelope, coyotes, bears, whatever.

I know, me all these matters, kind of another topic. But what sometimes trips the trigger to where I got to, I got to shoot, I got to shoot this, whatever I'm at. I would say an inline. Okay. For deer. Yeah. For deer. An inline. Yeah. A cheater. Cheater. Stickers. Droppers. Devin's talked about droppers get you killed with, like, his Nevada buck last year. Yes. Yes. Not tall in there. There's some characteristics that you have to have. Well, it was an eight or ten, ten incher or whatever. Dropper. Yeah. I've seen the double throat patch used before, too, guys. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. Just a body. Big bodied deer. Yeah. Sometimes. Beautiful cage. He's a big bodied. Beautiful cage. What turns your crank, Josh?

I don't know that so much it turns my crank, but there's just feelings that I get. Sometimes.

Urges. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Sensations. Urges. I don't know. What's those urges and sensations? Well, when you get a new gun, like, you should, I don't know, at some point, you shouldn't go hunt with a new gun. I know. You want it. You want to use it. Break it in on a cow elk first. Yeah. That's what I mean. Yeah. I've got one. I'm going to break in. Come back or high water. This week? Yeah. Are you taking a new gun? Come on. This is a bad. Something's going to happen. Are you taking that first maiden voyage? Yeah. I feel like he's... I can't. I am going to talk to Justin and Sean. And I'm going to swear to them. I say it. You tell me what dad killed. I'll pay a full report. Anything that you withhold, I'll pay you a hundred bucks. But you cannot keep a secret from me of whatever your dad shoots. Anyway. But back to Josh. So you had a maiden voyage, a new... Which gun was it?

Oh, it's a new... It was a 300 ROM. Fierce. Your new Fierce? Yeah. One we sell. Yeah. And it's... I don't know. It's next level gun. Yeah. It is kind of one of those things I've always... I don't know. Wanted to see what a 300 ROM would do to a deer. Yeah. Of any size? Pretty much. No, not of any size. They were thin lines. But anyway. So... New Norma and Norma ammo. Yeah. This Norma stuff sounds like... It kind of performs a lot like an Acubon. It sounds like. Yeah. I'd recommend it to anybody. 180 grainer. Out of the box. And it's shooting a thousand yards. No problem. Super accurate. Oh, yeah. Yep. Jeez. So it actually... I had some Acubons. And that's what... When they sent the gun. That's what they shot through it. And they said that's what it shot the tightest grooves. But I don't know whether they shot the Norma through it or not. But it shot... It actually shoots better.

And you chose the Norma just because you don't want to have to reload it. You want to just go ahead and... Or was it factory? Well, you can't find the components. And I couldn't find components to some of the Acubons and some of that nozzle or stuff. Norma ammo was factory. So, yes. So I figured with what... You know, Norma brass is good brass. So if nothing else, I'll get a bunch of good brass out of it. And it turned out awesome. Yeah. And to the point where I'm like, I don't know that I could reload anything. Do you remember what the speed is you're getting out of that for a 180? It was 30... 31 or 32. I think 31.82, I think is what it is. Almost 32. That's good. Yeah. It's moving. Yeah. It's good. So tell us how it went and the testing on that. Tell us how you know the bullet performs well.

So I was sitting there glassing. There I was.

I was sitting there glassing. God was on safety. And we'd seen another buck that had been... They were starting to cruise. So towards the end of that hunt, a lot of deer had moved. And bucks were actually starting to think about it a little bit in cruise. And there was this buck that I'd seen that morning. Looked similar to this cover of this October-November issue. Oh, yeah. End lines. Yes. Like 260, whatever. But no, there was this buck that was down there. And he was trying to come up and check and doze. But he was almost 30 inches. But he was barely like a three-point on the one side. Like an older deer. A big older deer. He was basically a giant two-point. But he did fork in the front. Did he have a good-looking cape? Almost 30. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That was one of my things. He starts checking boxes. He starts here pretty quick. And so I thought, well, I'm going to.

See where this is going. So I was like, I'm going to shoot that deer. I'm going to eat that one. But, yeah. So I didn't at that point. I had some restraint. And I held off. And so my brother went down to go glass some other stuff. And I was up there by myself. And I was sitting there glassing. And all of a sudden, I could hear like.

Raking? Yeah. Like a buck raking? Yes. Or busting and running? No. Well, at first, I couldn't tell if it was. It was raking. But I couldn't tell if it was raking or two bucks. Just like sparring. I didn't know if it was like a couple little two-points or something. I could just hear antlers rubbing. I'm like, what in the heck is that? And I looked back behind me several times. And I couldn't. I never could see anything. And finally, it got just louder and louder. So I actually got up and walked over to the edge of this ridge. And as I did, I walked over and looked. And there's just this big white-faced buck sitting there. And he like stops raking and just looks right up at me. Really? Yeah. I was like. Naked eye? How far? 300. 200, 300 yards. Perfect testing range. So I didn't. He had oak brush behind him. So I didn't even. Extra in lines. I could just see like big white-faced buck.

And so I didn't even put my vinyls up. I was just like, oh. You saw that with naked eye? Big deer. And decided with the naked eye. Yeah. I'm shooting that deer. No. But I just thought I need to. This is significant. Look at this deer. But keep in mind we're in Colorado. So my gun's in the side-by-side. In a soft case. In a hard case. Three cases deep locked with three locks. The bolts in a different lock case. Yeah. One bullet in each pocket. Nothing in the back. The bolts at camp and whatever. So anyway, I had to run back. Get it out of the case. You know, get bullets in it. Put on your Hunter Orange. Yeah. I had all that on. So then I just hurried and got back over to the edge. What was he doing? Raking again? No. He was just standing there looking. And there were some does down below him and a couple does above him. So he was just kind of watching them.

And so I didn't even put my binos up or anything at first. I just hurried and got the gun already. I just didn't know. Yeah. Well, I didn't know. So I hurried. I have the range-finding bino. So I just put it on his body and ranged. I didn't. And then you're going to turn and turn it. I could picture all of it. Yeah. So. I mean, you're fighting cases. You're fighting the cases. Yeah. Then you're trying to get. Panic. Oh. You're panicking. And you just kill the. Things aren't working right. If you would just calmly unzip stuff at all. Your brother just killed the 195, 200-inch plus buck. Yeah. And the faster you try, the slower you feel. And now you're, wow. Cutting corners. So yeah, I was jacked up. And like I said, I could tell he was a mature deer just from his body and stuff. At 300 yards, he was standing there. And so I didn't even do anything. I just got up, ranged him.

He was right at 300. Dialed. I didn't even have to dial. You know, my gun zeroed at two. So I was like, ah, it's a little high. So I just got down and cranked the scope to 24 because I always shoot it on 24. Whether it's 100 yards, 200 yards, sighting it in, whatever. Did you look at the head? No. Not at this point. Still. No. You're piped up and dialed the 24. Yeah. Well, basically, you're killed more. Here's the other thing. This goes back to the phone call of should we pass? Should we pack him out? You should always identify your target.

So this goes back to the should we pack him out thing. This deer was in. Easy spot. A great spot compared to where he could be in a not so great a spot. He's thought about this. It's another box. He's thought about this for days. White face. A great cape. Big body deer. Easy spot to get out. My brother's here. I get to go home. I might be home early. I'm a hero. All of these things are. At a certain point, there is no return. And Norma wants to eat. Norma wants to bark. So this was where. So that's just it. Like, that was why I didn't even. I was like, I don't care. Then I'll look at him. I'll look at him now. So I got up and looked at him in the scope. As soon as I went to go turn, he turns his head to the left to go look at the does back above him. And as he does in his back fork, he had big back forks. And he's got an inline. What? On his three. On his right side. What you said, Jason.

Inlines get you killed. And so at that point, he like turned back around to look at his does downhill. And I was already looking at him in the scope. It's over. That was already a weak moment. That was already on his shoulder. At 24 power. Yeah. That was already. And so I. 200, 250. 24 power. And you know what? For all we know, Bronson, it might have been 120 yards. It was a top pick. I know this. I know this. Josh is a good storyteller. It could be. It could have been 50 yards away. 100 to 300. We already know his gun. He was sighted in at two. So from one to three. So let's just say it's 75 yards. He's got him on 24 power. Yeah. And he sees a two and a half inch inline. Looks like he's 10 inches. A non-scorable point this long at that range. Looks this long. It was a 10 inch inline.

Okay. Keep going. So I just. There's just certain things. I'm weird about some of that stuff. Like my gun. I shoot at 24. I don't want to because I've messed up before. If I go to long range and it's stuck at 12. If I don't dial it. Well, and that goes back to the reticles. You want all the reticles to come in. So there needs to be high power. I mean, there's some. Yes. If you shoot those types of scopes. Yeah. And you were probably raised on something like that. So it's just. All those things are just. I just. I try and keep things the same every time I shoot. And just those. Some of those. Was your brother right there with you? No. He was down. He didn't even know this was going to happen. He's about to make him proud though. And so I just held a little high because I didn't want him to go far. So I put it. High shoulder. High shoulder. And. Did it. Crumpled.

Did it do what it did to that elk break his back with one shot? No. That elk. I mean, that elk was able to still get downhill and move and stuff. This deer. I watched him. Slam. Let's go. Wow. Wow. Just folded. Wow. So did you walk up before your brother? No. On your own? You waited for him. So I waited for him. I called him and told him. Hey. Because he's like, hey, was that you that shot? And I was like, yeah. Of course it is. We're the only side by side up here. Yeah. I said, I don't know. I don't know what he is. I don't know what he is. I know he had an inline and he had big back forks. Because I didn't. I just. Like I said, I didn't take much time. I love these stories. Well. So we get walking down there. I sympathize with you. I have done it on the podcast. We both. We'll talk about him. We got down there. We walked down there to him. And we get close.

And he was kind of over to my right. Because it was in the thick oak. So we kind of came. He was. The deer was for sure dead. We were just trying to come on different angles from him to try and see where he was at. Just to make sure if he jumped or whatever. But he. And he looks at him. And he has a pair of 18 by 56. On his chest. He's like, oh, he's good. And I'm like, is he really? Oh, yeah. Yeah. He looks good. How far is he? Oh, we're within 100 yards now. With 18. Okay. So let's call it 40. 40 on 18 pounds. Anyway. I don't believe anything we're told. At that point. We packed him out. What do you mean? We packed him out and came home. It was a good trip. So the deer. We skipped the part where you actually got to him. Did he have an inline? He does. He did have the inline. It was not a piece of. Okay. It has an inline. Scorable? Oh, yeah. Possibly. Oh, it's scorable. Yeah. I'm sorry.

Yeah. Jerked Wyatt off the table there. But the good thing is, is you can't eat the horns. That's right. The meat will be delicious and it'll taste well. So anyway, Josh is just. It's not 500 pounds of bear meat trying to haul up the hill. That's a good cheese. Greasy sausage meat. Be grateful. Who wants to eat 500 pounds of bear meat? So, yeah. He wasn't what I thought he was. He had like two-inch G3s. Yeah. But that. What? What happened to the big back forks? They're there. Two inches? Two inches? Two inches? G3s? Yeah. Or, I mean, sorry. Excuse me, fours. Okay. All right. Fours. I just heard big backs and then they ended up being two-inchers. Well, big backs is relative to the buck, but it's what it is. Remember when you were grateful? The first thing you text me was. That it was a buck. I'm glad you've done the same thing. I'm glad I'm not the only or something like that.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I've got one of those. Anyway, and it's true. We've all. I shot a German Shepherd with antlers. Oh, boy. You remember. It was. I can't say I made a mistake on what the deer was, but the proportions of everything on him were 70% of what a normal deer should have been. Body, head, antlers. Which buck was it? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Remind me. It's just a buck. Just a four-by-four tiger. It's just a buck. But when I walked up on him, I've never seen a smaller-bodied, call it mature deer, in my life. And I don't know what the deal was. You've heard it with sheep? Just remind me. I want to engage with you here. I'm going to have to scroll for a minute. Why don't you jump into yours? Okay. Here's the text from Josh. First text. First text. Remember the time you big-eyed a buck at close range with 15s? Okay. So he puts it on me right off the bat.

Remember the time, Jason. Don't be so hard on me. Remember when you did it, boy. Remember Jason Muley Carter when you did what I just did?

Right. Remember the time you big-eyed a buck at close range with 15s? I screwed up. Big backs with an inline doesn't make them a big deer. Anyway, it was a pretty fun text. But the thing is, though, you hunted your guts out and to the very end, and you, one of the two of you came home with a world-class deer. That's true. And it's awesome. I think it's great. Learned to use new unit on a, not a freebie tab, but yeah, no points burnt, no inning by a hundred. I was in Gunnison in the height of its glory, and I was amped up. I mean, I was amped up. There was big deer dying, 220 bucks or whatever. I glass up at 100, 110 yards with a pair of 15s. I glass up a buck that is like a six by five. Cheater. Oh. I'm like, and I dumped that deer so fast. And I walked up to it, and it was, I don't know, 21 inches wide or something. The biggest baby giant in the world. And I was just like, oh, man.

You know, just give me this tag back. Give me some, these next days are going to be better. Was that the chance that your buddy killed a big deer on that? Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was like 33 or 44. Four incher. Yeah. Big deer. Yeah. Anyway, and you know, my dad ended up with a 220 buck. Like, there was, with no eye guards, slick shank 220. Like, it's just, geez, you know. Anyway, it was that kind of thing, and here's mine. And anyway, it is what it is. Like, it just happens, and it's fine. It's not a big deal, but just high power, close range failure. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Failure to identify your target. You can properly identify your target. Luckily, it was a buck. It's not in my phone, and I know it's not. Which buck was it? Real quick. You act like it has a name. Was it the 25, 26 buck at 10,000 feet? That's where it was. It's what? No. At 10,000 feet. You were on fourth at 10,000.

Oh, yeah. That was it. Yeah, because Aaron had shot one the night before. It was a pretty nice buck. And you were wound up because there were some big deer showing up. It was a fourth season. Yeah. They were running. And then you saw him through. And I killed a year or two before. I killed one within 200 yards of there. It's like a six by four. That's like 180, 185. Really nice buck. Yeah. And it was the same general area. And it was just, they're in the Quakey's rutting. Snow's in the Quakey's. How can it be a small dude? It's Colorado. Yes. You got big deer up. You don't have that one. And that was back in pretty good days. Well, yeah. I don't know. It's been 10 years ago. But whatever. But, Amy. And so you're laying down prone. They're rutting back in the Quakey's at 500 yards or something like that. And so as soon as they get to a gap and stop, that's your shot.

But I looked at the deer. It's not like I had a rush job. I just, I thought he was a 180 inch, you know, type four point. Yeah. He wasn't. Trust me. Well, I never did find out what he was. Do you know how big your deer was? Let's call it 138. Okay. This deer was, I bet he wasn't over 150. I remember. But you were good about it. You just said he's not quite what I thought. You did not ever really expound upon what it was. Jeez. And you hiked your guts out to get to him. It sucked. Yeah. I'm by myself. It was a heavy snow year. 10,000 feet. I don't know where Aaron was. But he might have went home that day. Oh, you boned him out. You boned him out. But I had the full. And you're hunting in November. Mid to late November. You have a lot of clothes and crap in your pack. And then the gun. Spot and scope. All that. And a full deer. Yeah. It was no joke. It wasn't fun. No joke. It wasn't fun.

I was mad the whole drive home. But I'll bet you you identify your target better next time. Oh. Because of it. And me. Me too. Yeah. It's not. But you still misjudged. Everybody gets excited. And I still don't know. If I find the pictures, I'll show you the deer. And you can kind of see the body. Like, you'll see what I'm talking about. And it doesn't. Yeah. It's not just me talking now to make an excuse. This was a dwarf deer. It was like a sheep. We've seen them in doll sheep. Yeah. Probably more than any other sheep. But there's some doll sheep. They literal are dwarfs. Yeah. They're a curl in a house. 24-inch curl. Full curl. Yes. Weird little stuff. Yeah. 26. But deer like that usually die in Colorado because their winters are so harsh. They need those big blocky bodies. Or a big buck will just push them to the ground and gore them. I mean, they're literally. An over-grown coos deer.

I don't know. I've never seen anything like that. They're a black tail. I've never seen anything like that. But anyway. But I had a friend. And I'm not going to say his name. He didn't kill me. But anyway. He did what you did. But he looked at a buck. With a BTX. With a BTX at about 200 or 250. I remember. And that deer died within. Well, it's 35 power. Plus, he probably had his doubler on because he likes the doubler. That 1.7 magnifier. At 250, it's dying. I don't know if he did or not. You can see bloodlines. He thought that was 180 and 185 inch. 4.27 inch. And if you pray hard enough, it might make 190. I've still never seen a picture of the deer. I know. So be careful. I'm so scared of doing that the rest of my life. And you know a lot of it. There's one other story that I'll never tell. But it's when they're compact. Yeah. You're in trouble.

You really need to go over these compact deer. If that's what you're after. Big area thing. You can't miss a big area as much. If you've got a tag that takes 20 years to draw, I mean, just don't be shooting compact deer unless you know he's got a lot of trash and really is going to make it what you need to be. Any stories, Wyatt? Wyatt has them. On this topic. It seems like he's got one. I have a lot less of an excuse than you guys do. I didn't look at them with a BTX or anything like that. I just straight up got excited. You said? This year. Wyatt, this is – or excuse me, Cash, this is your story. You can make it what you want. I know. Well, I have – the issue is I have witnesses. They can call me out pretty easy. Okay. It's hard for me to lie on that one because I went so long. Well, again, this was a gun that had never ate before. Yes. Another new rifle. Yeah. It's not a good call.

You're in trouble. It's not. If I were you, I'd take an old gun. 338, Rob. See? It's in the truck. Dude, that thing's disgusting.

225 grainer going 3260. It's a hammer. Don't shoot your little deer. He's going to blow it in half. Just saying.

Oh, boy. Excuse me, sir. Where are your hind quarters? Yeah. They're still somewhere in the brush. All right. Well, there are things in detail. You got excited. Yeah. New gun got excited. It's still awesome, dude. You got other factors. You had a lot of time building that gun yourself, putting it together, if I remember right. I did. And you had Halloween knocking on your door. What? Right? Yeah, just for the people in my group, but I could have stayed. Oh, okay. I could have stayed. I thought it was your – maybe your wife wanted you back. No, my wife didn't. Okay. She would have rather me had it out there. Just variables. Yeah, just a few different things. It was good to have them there, whatever. But, yeah, I got excited with a new gun. I have a feeling the rest of my year – I've got to hunt with Aaron, and I have a feeling how that hunt's going to go. We all know that. We know him.

He's probably pickier than me, is what I mean. He's – oh. He's picky. He's very patient. Yeah. He's picky. You are not going to get him – he's kind of picky, but he's so patient. He is not going to make one of these mistakes. No. There's some people that don't make mistakes. Well, but he's – I would contend he's – well, I'm not going to make mistakes. I'm not going to get him. But he also should have killed certain bucks. Oh, I have stories when we were kids. 200 inches that he let go. Probably 190 inches. Yeah. There was a buck in Colorado that – right? That – oh, there was that buck too.

But there was one when we were – I was probably 16 or 17, so it puts him, whatever, 14. And we're hunting with my dad, General Utah. I glassed his buck up. And I had already put it in my scope and got him over – he's only a couple hundred yards. It's thick oak. It's a pollock buck. And thick oak, gray oak, gray antlers. In lines and splits. He was afraid that he was – he's 14, 15. Okay? Who cares? Shoot it. If it's a little smaller, you haven't killed 20 deer yet in your life. But this deer's big. I've seen – I saw it through. He wouldn't shoot it. He's on his gun. The deer's just staring just like that. Stares, stares, stares. Turns to leave. Runs. And he empties his gun. You know, running forever. Yeah. Got a yard sale going on by the time you're done. Never touched it. Never, never touched it. So, anyway. He's just more conservative.

So, anyway, I just – I kind of wish there was a way to trip his trigger. I'd like to see him shoot a deer. I think – How could I do it? Find a big one. Take a new gun. Feed him a white monster. And then amp him up just a little. So, you know, you're going to have to – I mean, you're his brother. If anybody can do it, it's you. I'm going to have to take responsibility. Like, this buck's better. Trust me. You want this deer. Don't look at his antlers. You're going to – See that patch of hair? You will miss if you – See that white patch of hair? Main – four inches to the left and squeeze.

Don't look at the antlers. Don't look at the antlers. Because if you do, you're going to miss. I hope he has – I have identified your target. I haven't even looked if, like, wolf quotas are open up there, but you might have a better chance of killing a wolf than a deer. Where we're going. Wolverine, maybe, or something. Well, they're elite, Carter. We're protected. Well, I mean, if you misidentify your target. But I'm just saying, I saw wolves when I had it in Wyoming, you know, last time in this place. So, I mean – Yeah. I'm excited for you guys. Anyways. But then Colorado. So, anyway. Anyway. Jason's going to Colorado. And I'm not taking a new gun for a specific reason. I don't want to be – I've only got one gun in my safe. There's another reason. Yeah, that gun, the bolt doesn't come out. Okay, well. But anyway. But I only have one gun that hasn't killed some.

And I wasn't going to take it because I don't – And now it's not operable. Well, I haven't used it enough and really doped it. I don't need to rush – do a rush job. I haven't worked up my dope and all that too much yet. Confidence isn't quite there. I haven't even chronographed the gun. I've sighted in 100 or 200 yards. So, it was just – I'm excited. I love these hands. But, yeah, some extras and eye guard, big eye guard. It's easy. It's easy. I'm just thinking of stuff that gets – You're already dreaming about – Yeah. I'm dreaming of what I want to shoot. Colorado. And what you're going to find for Aaron. I'd like to know what you would like to shoot in Colorado. Because I know how picky you are. It feels like – Nothing will work. You're wasting your time going over. No, I'm not. I'm taking my boys. Yes, that is – But you have a tag. But you have a tag. Yeah.

Hey, this is a place that could kill something stupid big. But most likely it won't. But I'm excited to go. It is. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. Well, I love taking my boys and daughter. This is a hunt. To hunt with them is just what I live for. So, I'm – We're going to – We will knock down a couple of bucks for them. Two out of three at least. I'm so excited. 57% is not bad. I'm so excited. Plus, I'm going to have half the state of Utah there, and that's really exciting. It's going to be a reunion of sorts. It's going to be like another expo. I might even set up a booth. I don't know. I'm going to take some decals. Take some optics. I'm going to take some decals and some hats. Somebody is going to back over their optics with their side-by-side. I will. Take a pair of 15s, 12s, and a spot-and-scope. I will. We'll tripod it after. I actually think it's not a bad idea. Because I do.

I mean, these guys, they're good hunters, and we know a lot of them. So, it's going to be fun. I'm really looking forward to it. You also got to just be realistic in your expectations. You know, we expect the world from Colorado, and we don't scout it, and we go there for only the season. Five to seven days. Five to seven-day seasons, right? Yeah. And we expect the world. We're disappointed when we don't kill a monster or a 3x4 that goes 194. Broken. You know what I mean? I'm looking for that buck. Yeah. Intact. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you chewed him. That's a book typical. Probably intact. He's 204-inch typical. There's hardly any deduction on that deer. Yeah. What was the other G4? 11. So, there you go. I mean, it's stupid big. It is. It's 204. It's kind of one of those bucks. Net 200. Net 201.95. One of those bucks that when you look, I don't know. Old book was 195 net.

When you're looking at it, you're kind of like, what is it? You know, I don't know. It was just hard. But then you walk up in the body. Yeah. And that's what I've done. I don't know how many deer we've shot in Colorado. Me and friends. Giant bodies. And so, the anomaly, you never think about it in certain places. Yeah. There's other places you do. You go to some of these desert areas. You go to some maybe desert to New Mexico and all that. You prepare, or Southern Arizona. Yeah. You prepare for smaller body deer. Yeah. Not Colorado. Because this summer, I saw several of those type of bucks in that 200 to 205 range that we were helping with. And I saw them, you know, a lot, quite often. And I definitely contend that they looked that big. But this deer, because of its body being so big, I felt more like it.

It felt more like a high 180s buck just because of the size of the body and everything. Because our Utah deer definitely, I mean, some places are big. But a lot of them, they're not. And it just, they're a little more impressive that way. When they look. Well, Jason, I know he's, he let a book typical go. And we've talked about it to this day. Because of you under, underjudged, somebody's called out giant bucks. Yeah. You remember the book. And probably Aaron, the one on, you talked about in Colorado. I can see him in my life right now. And, yeah, that's why. It's just sad. You know. They have beautiful blocky faces. They are. And necks and bodies. I like them to have 10 or 15 points on each side. Because you know they at least have that. Because you can't misjudge them. If his frame's 180, you still got a 195. Typicals are the hardest thing in the world to judge. Wyatt. They are.

You're an official scorer. Tell me why. I mean, it is so hard to judge a typical. It is so hard to judge a typical. You're not adding all the extra inches on top of the frame. You're not guessing a frame and adding all the extra inches. You're trying to guess a frame. Yeah, like beams. How do you tell long beams? Like, what do you, let's talk about a few of those things. You've been on a lot of big deer kills. What do you, how do you judge a buck? What do you initially look for? Well, a lot of things play into it, as you guys have mentioned. You know, the body size definitely plays into it. You've got to kind of look at it from all different angles, too. I mean, one angle, I've seen a lot of deer look good from a certain angle, but then you get another angle, and then you kind of got to mix those two together and kind of form an opinion on what it is.

But, of course, you're looking for everything long. You know, all the times over 10. You know, G2's 18 plus. Would be ideal. Yeah, I mean, that's what you're hoping for. Eye guards. I mean, eye guards are huge. Oh, yeah. If you have inch and a half eye guards, no eye guards to inch and a half is okay, but think about four inches. Now you've got eight inches total. Beams inside. But beams, you're talking like if you've got a compact deer, you've got no shank. A non-wide deer. It's hard to have long beams. It's hard to have. And then you also lose the inside on a non-wide deer, too. I mean, you lose a lot of air right there, which is a big measurement. They're the scarier ones. And then if they're super heavy, case selected at Nevada deer in my office that nets 198 or whatever, he's so heavy. His tines don't look that impressive. Mass hides inches.

He's got 29-inch beams, and you're just like, eh, it's nice. Mass is something. Yeah, you get eight inches on a buck from okay to good. So if you have mass and eye guards, now you're at 16 inches. Yes, it adds a significant amount. Which you think is the smallest thing to make a buck big. Yeah. Yeah. We think tines. Tinely. That's what I think. Long tines adds up inches. Well, yeah, you need it. But you add, like I said, just a half inch to an inch on a mass measurement. On each one. And an extra three inches per side of eye guards from one to four inchers. You went from a nice buck to stupid big. Yeah. You went from a 185 to 200 plus. Fast. It's so hard to judge them. The body size, head size, ear size. Time of year, too, because sometimes you get August deer. A lot of times you don't. Body size isn't what it is in the end of October, November. Let's face it. I don't know how much deer.

I mean, you're talking 50 plus pounds in bulk. Yeah. And by then, when they're finishing the summer, two, three more months of feeding. Plus, if you get an acorn year, they just slob up. Well, they, when we were doing, like, collaring those bucks and stuff, their necks would go down to, like, 17, 18 inches. In the winter. In the summer. And they could go clear up to 26 to 27. Yeah. Same buck. 28, same deer. In the winter. Jeez. With those expandable collars. Yeah, so they had those big elastics and stuff in them. So, yeah, we'd put them clear on them then. And so we'd measure them to try and so we could get a good measurement of how much elastic and all that. But, yeah, I mean, easy 10 inches of growth on their neck from summer to just August. I do feel more, and Wyatt looked at a ton of local bucks this year, but I do feel more uncertain then because they aren't as big and blocky deer.

Yeah. You know, in August, you're dealing sometimes, you know, deer is just, you know, from August to October, they can just, you know, 50, 75 pounds. It feels like, I don't know, but it has to. Because they just turn from a kind of a lean thing with not a lot of fat to something roly-poly pretty fast. Well. It's just awesome. Yeah. But fun to talk about. We're going to be hunting some whitetails here shortly. Oh. You've been hunting whitetails, though. You've been. Yeah. Yeah, and I think we should save that story. Really? I think we should. We've got to talk about high guards and beams. Yeah, you split. I mean, we've already talked about everything. You're going to save that for a 60-minute podcast. Something that took one day to kill? There's a lot that goes into those things. Hey, I'm here to tell you, whoever's whitetail hunter that's out there listening, like, it's addicting.

It's intense.

I'm not going to say they're smarter than a mule deer. It's just there's a lot that goes into them. What's a scrape? Why are they scraping? Yeah, your brain is programmed to interpret mule deer behavior, mule deer habitat usage, mule deer cover usage, all that. And you have to switch it in terms of corridors, in terms of. Pinch points, corridors, scrapes. Food sources, scrapes. Rubs, you know. How big a rub? Like, oh, that's a giant buck. What do you mean? It's just a tree that a fork, it could do that to it if it wanted to. But no, there's so much more that goes into it. And, you know, old deer and then eye guards, you think they all, the whitetails, I love the whitetail eye guard. But, I mean, stupid big, some of them, but a lot of them are not. And then some of them are forking and then beams. How do you judge a beam on a whitetail? Like, there's some judging problems. Yeah.

And so, luckily, I have a really good friend, Roger Smithson, that's taught me a lot in a short amount of time. And anyway, but. Maybe I need a lesson before here. You got some flight time. Just listen to me. Flight time. Listen to me and I shoot second.

Paul, look. Because, dude, because we're going to where they make 300 block pound block bodies or plus. Yeah. And they're going to look small. And we're going to question ourselves, I think. But anyway, we're excited. We're going to go late season whitetail hunt up north. But then, yeah, so I did kill a world class buck in Iowa. And a lot of luck, a lot of, you know, nothing to do with me. Nothing to do with me, just, but it was such a good story. So, I don't know. Anyway. You do want to put it on for like two, three weeks. Because that's when we're going to talk. We'll have a whitetail podcast. Okay. Well, let's just do. We can polish off our marks. Whitey's Matter podcast. Coming up. Hey, it was. I watched the movies and it worked.

It felt, it feels so good to shoot something with a bow. Well, it does. And I, that morning was, I woke up at my house that day, which seemed rare. And I texted him because I knew he was out there. And I knew he was sitting because the day before he was hanging stands and all that. And I'm telling you, yeah, I'm in the tree. And literally within like two hours, I get a picture. And I'm like, is whitetail hunting that easy? No, it's not. I know it's not. But I mean. It's not. But it was just one of those things. You went from hunting mule deer for like 60 days. It was first sit in the, the first stand, first sit, first deer I saw. Only. Only deer. And it's from a stand. But, but we would go hang stands and there was deer everywhere. Yeah. They were just everywhere. But it was warm, 70 degrees. The big bucks aren't going to move.

You're not seeing big bucks because the big bucks don't move when it's this hot. All of those things that I, I'm learning. You know what I mean? And then the first cold snap, first morning, you're supposed to hunt them the first cold snap nearest Halloween. And then you got a lot of pre-rut and they move a lot. And so you're just, you've, you're seeing bucks from other farms, wherever. They're coming from all places. Yeah, they go crazy. I learned a little bit. They'll, you'll get, your buck will get road killed three, three miles or two miles over here because they're so crazy at night. Right. And a lot of guys will kill them early because they're, they're habitual on a food plot or whatever. You know, we don't live out there. We don't live out there. We don't have that luxury necessarily. So you're just going to get lucky. Relying on a few people. Oh, pinch point.

If you get these property and reading the sign and hunting. Good genetics. And then, you know, we did have this buck on camera early, you know, just off a trail, just the way it kind of. New is alive. Yeah. New is alive. New is alive. And anyway, geez, not much luck ever. But anyway, so it was good, but. Set the bar high for you two up north of the border. I'm excited to do more. I'm telling you, I'm excited to do more white tail hunting. I'm like way excited about it. Wyatt, you're excited too, right? For you guys, for some white tail hunting. For you to do some more white tail hunting. Tell me you don't have a bug a little bit. Well, he does. I've done it. I've had a good time. I'm just cursed. I've not killed one yet. He's had hunts. He has. He has two years. I know. But he hasn't had a 200. You did too. You went to Iowa.

He hasn't had a 200-incher on camera, so he hasn't left the office. I don't even need a 200-incher. He's one big, solid deer. 185 triple eye guards, 27-inch main beam. It would get shot. It would be nice. Even a heavy, heavy 175. Just a good deer with a good look. We're pretty picky because we're trophy hunters by nature, but when you don't live there, you can't make it happen. You're not driving the ship. No. You're not. No. You're at the mercy of, way more at the mercy of white tail of what comes to you.

You are. Pretty fun stuff. All right. Okay. What are we doing now, boys? I don't know. We're calling it a day? We can't talk anymore about that big white tail, so I guess we're done. Well, I can tell you the story. Are you wanting to go there? No. If you want to go have a white tail only podcast, you do. Let's do it when we get done with Canada. Yeah. We have three of them. So, another place that we have no influence. I'm just going to say this out loud. I know this. I've ordered electric socks with nine volt batteries. A lot of them. And, Logan, I want you to be able to, what I'm about to say, I want you to be able to find in about three weeks when we do this next podcast. Okay? Thank you. We've talked on this podcast about accidental discharges of firearms. Come on. You guys are hunting in blinds and very close range at deer.

It's going to be dumb because Josh and I, Josh has been looking at them on YouTube trying to figure out how to judge them. Okay. But I'm saying you're going to shoot a deer at 50 yards. I'm just warning you, use caution. I think I'm going to take eights. I do not want tens or twelves. I'd use an open side. I'll decide through. I'll look through the scope. And I probably don't need to crank it up to 24 to shoot a deer. Don't. Josh is excited to shoot one and I'm excited for Josh to shoot one. Well, there's going to be deer to shoot. But if you're going for like 10 days, aren't you? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, you've got time. Don't. We're going to have the Canadian experience. I've got warmer clothing for parts of my body I didn't even know I had. Like heated things. I don't know.

Oh, boy. Well, anyway. Good times. I warned them. I'm saying this. I warned them. If something happens, we had a whole podcast dedicated to stuff that trips the trigger inadvertently. I won't do it again. Okay. But, hey, also don't let a 180 buck walk. You're scared. Don't. Dump him. Yeah. That's what I'm more scared about. Well, third season's about to start. And then fourth season, Bronson in Colorado, we're excited about. Some of that's going to take place while we're up north. So, there's a lot of hunts left that are coming up. And it's kind of exciting. So, anyway. Good luck, everybody. Let's finish strong. We'd like to thank all of our sponsors here at Epic Outdoors. For top of the line hunting, clothing, and apparel in every environment, visit UnderArmor.com. We'd like to thank Under Armour for being our title sponsor and making this podcast happen.

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