EP 333: The Low Down on New Zeiss Products with Hunter Hasen of Zeiss Optics

You're listening to the Epic Outdoors podcast brought to you by the Western Hunting and Conservation Expo and Utah Life Elevated. This is an event we don't miss. So come and see the whole Epic Outdoors crew February 13th through 16th, 2025 in Salt Lake City, Utah. For more details, go to huntexpo.com.

Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson. We've got part of the Epic crew here. We've got Logan. How are you doing, Logan? I'm doing good. Joshua. Joshua Pollack. Yeah, the meat. The meat. The meat. The meat. Come on. Really? And potatoes. Wyatt, I'm potatoes. Oh, potatoes. How are you doing, Wyatt? I'm good. And who's the gravy? He's in, so I don't know, he's on a plane somewhere. Oh, Devin? Yeah. I guess we get to talk about people that aren't here, right? Exactly. I haven't listened to the podcast when I wasn't here. I accidentally talked about Pollack. You know, I said, everybody's here but Jason, and somehow forgot Pollack. Did you listen to that podcast? Not yet. I haven't gone through all of it. Okay, well, I apologized on the air, and I'm doing it again right now. I promise to not be offended. I think our podcast is terrible. I never listen to it. I promise to not be offended.

Dang. Good.

Well, anyway, here we are. It's December, Bronson. Everybody survived Thanksgiving, it looks like. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah? Five pounds heavier. No. Huh? Not me. Me and Adam were swapping recipes. It was pretty good. Oh, yeah. You guys were doing the Traeger or whatever. Pellar Grill. What kind of grill are you going to give free press to? It doesn't matter. Just call it a Pellar Grill. We don't need to say the name. Yeah. All right. Just like when I rip my label off my water bottle when I drink it. Oh. You don't know what I mean? You do that? Not going to give them a plug. Let me see. Did they serve Thanksgiving in a box blind in Oklahoma? Okay. Maybe. Maybe. We had tailgate sandwiches of epic proportions. We did. We had a tailgate sandwich for Thanksgiving. It was good. I did that last year. It was the most amazing sandwich ever. Yeah. I did that last year. Yeah.

A little bag of free press. I don't like missing Thanksgiving. No. This is the first one I've been to for a couple years with my family. Feels good. Feels good. And same thing with Halloween. I like walking around the streets with the kids. You know what I mean? What? I do. I like walking around. I missed the last two of those as well. Well, you know, the neighborhood, you know, you just get to visit. You know what I mean? Do you do that? Oh. You have these little neighborhood gatherings and walking around with strollers and stuff. People have strollers. The new families. The young ones. It's been a while. Call it 10 or 15 years since that's happened. I've asked Jana to get in a stroller. She won't do it.

Walk her around the neighborhood.

Hey, maybe that's your next year's Halloween costume. Maybe. All right. Get a pacifier in her mouth and push her around. Be that old codger that's married to the 20-year-old. All right. Wow. Yeah. See if you get her to buy off on that. Just teasing. She'll probably edit that out, but maybe not. Well, all right. So as we get started here, it is December. We're super excited. We're here in the office forever, it feels like, from here to freaking June or something. So anyway, we're excited. We've got a lot going on here in the office. It's very busy. Cranking out applications and strategies like it's our freaking job. Putting out statistics, Bronson. We've got January we've been working on. You've been working on it heavy. I've been working on it. I had a little bit in the summer, and then now I've got to break it back open. And it's terrible.

It's kind of a terrible time of year, but it's way fun. It's just nice to have the different seasons. We've got hunting season, then office season. But anyway, with that, we are prepping for the expo. I know John's been redoing our booth, Bronson. Yeah. Epic proportions. Good grief. I don't know what it's going to look like, but I'm kind of scared. Yeah. Electronic stuff, I've heard. I've heard. Yeah. Everything's electronics. What I'm worried about is we change up the booth, and then next year it's out of date. And have droids walking around, servicing members. And then with Trump and tariffs, can we even get the China products that we need? You know what I mean? Taiwan? I mean, we're friends with Taiwan. Who cares? Trump's in office. Who cares? Exactly. Pay the tariffs? Pay the piper. Well, we are. So, whatever. All right. So, anyway, we are getting prepped for the expo. HuntExpo.com.

You should reserve your tickets. Get on there. Of course, we apply for those $5 ticket items for the different tags that they're giving away. It's a drawing. Let's just call it what it is. Just another way to potentially draw a tag for a lot of different species. And there you have it. Wyatt and I check that every day. Yeah. I say just an update. They're not up yet. Yeah. Wyatt and I check. We want the first of the pile. No. Wyatt always wants the last of the pile. But he's so amped up for the initial unveiling of the tags he already knows that are coming out. Well, it's just. Why is that, Wyatt? I want to know what goes on in your mind. I'm going to throw in. We're wanting to forget 2024 and begin. This is the first. But he gets so excited. Did you check it last night before you went to bed? I have checked, yes. Did you check it this morning? I have not checked it yet this morning. Okay.

But we were doing a little comparison on optics with Zeiss, which is coming up here shortly. Hunter, I forgot to welcome you. Say hi. Happy to be here. So we're going to be talking. It's garbage. Except for this, Wyatt. I want to dive into your mental thought process on why does it matter when that comes out? Why does it matter to you? I want to be the very first in. It's kind of like, Jason, when you get out. When your kids fish, you go with them. When you hit the water in that first cast, isn't that the best? Like the first cast of the day. You're like, this is awesome. Casting and Jason don't go in the same sentence. Well, your kids, whoever. Okay. This is the first cast of 2025. Yeah. Our first chance to win. It's like August 10th, archery in Nevada. It's the first day. This is the first chance to get your name in the water.

We did the sportsman's, little sportsman's tags here in Utah. Second. Second. Got some turkey coming out. This will be my second rejection of the year. Were you excited about the Utah turkey coming out? Like, are you excited about something? No, I don't even apply for Utah turkey. Arizona turkey or bison or anything like that? You're the only one that does that. No. What do you mean? I'm just wondering what turns Wyatt's crank. Big tag. That's right. The tag's still not up. It's still showing last year's results. So, Wyatt, do you have a clean slate for next year, Wyatt? Like, your hunt schedule, is it clean? It's clean. Open? It's clean. Open. What do you want to fill it with? What are you going to, what's your plans? I'm going to win an expo tag. The world's waiting for Wyatt's going to be. Feeling like a. You know that if you see this on a hot mic and you win one, you're going to get.

It's rigged. You're going to get. Straight up. They call that manifesting these days. Yeah, that's what they call it these days. It's manifesting. I don't. Is that what the Gen Z's call it? Yeah, that's what Gen Z's live on. I can confirm. I don't even know. Really? Come on. I haven't even heard that word. Manifesting? Yeah. What does that mean? Give me the proof. Give us the world. If I believe it'll happen. Yeah. Basically. Is it the rural dictionary? What's that called? Urban dictionary. Urban. What's the urban say? I don't know. Do you want me to look it up? I don't know. Geez. Can you get through all your other searches? I might be able to. What are we on? Firefox over there? Can I get through your firewall? Yeah. If they manifest it, then it'll happen. If you believe. Is that a different way of saying if you believe you can achieve? Is that a different way of saying that? Geez.

I believed for a long time I was going to win one of these tags. I mean, it's been a number of years. It's been 15 years. I've never had one yet. I haven't believed strong enough. You have to believe strong enough. I do know people have won multiple or so. I do too. It keeps me going. It does keep you going. It actually slows me down. Did you find something, Logan? You're grinning over there. Yeah. It's weirder than you might think. What's AI telling you? I didn't AI it. I just Urban Dictionary it. How do you know the difference? So when I go to Safari and I do a little Google, it'll give me this AI definition. But how do I? Sometimes it won't give me the AI. Is there a way I can turn that on or off? I don't know about that. Like when you're Googling and it pops up. Have you noticed that? Yeah. I have noticed that. What stops? And then sometimes it won't. Mm-hmm. Why?

Just probably not enough information. It's not quite got an AI-generated definition yet. Okay. Maybe. I would say. So what it is? Is AI on now on this? No. This is Urban Dictionary. Oh. What's it saying? Manifesting is the act of creating your own reality using the law of attraction using your own energies. That's called fantasy land. Yeah. That's exactly what Josh was talking about. Creating your own fantasy land. And Wyatt has been doing that. Yeah. I don't know. Trying. It doesn't work for me. What do you fantasize about, Wyatt? I must not manifest hard enough. What's your fantasy, Wyatt? Win one of these big tags right now. Okay. You need some of those goggles that you can wear with the little remotes. Maybe that's what you need. The VR. What are the VR? VR goggles? Yeah. The VR. Yeah. You can VR yourself walking into the expo. Case probably has those. No.

He's behind the times. Wyatt's told me. He is probably behind the times. VR is not going to be allowed. Yeah. Your point is, if you want a dog, just put these goggles on. I'm going to put dog in these goggles. Play with him. Here. Go play. Hand him a stuffed animal with VR goggles and he'll think it's real. Christmas presents? Here. Look in these goggles. Here's your Christmas presents. We're on to some stuff here. All right. So, anyway. HuntExpo.com. Go there. Reserve your tickets. It's also probably ought to figure out your plane tickets to fly in if you have to come from faraway lands. It's well worth it. It's the biggest show. It's turned into, it feels like it's bigger than SCI. Biggest show in the West. More significant, I would say, than SCI for us. We went to a couple last year and it was bigger than some of them that I thought were like the

biggest shows you hear about and have heard about for a long time. It really is. So, they're opening up even more exhibit hall room. Yeah. Yeah, they are. Yeah, it's pretty awesome. So, February 13 to 16, 2025, Salt Lake City. Definitely want to be there. Of course, we're going to apply for these tags. Actually, we're just going to validate. You're applying now, right? Why, as soon as it comes out. Apply now, validate there. So, listen to the next podcast, next five podcasts, one of them. Wyatt's going to unveil that it's open, right? You're going to tell the world. Me or Adam, yeah. I'm ready. He's already saying he's not going to be available on these other podcasts. That's what he's telling us. It's a busy time here. Yes, it is. But what makes Wyatt nervous is that we'll talk about him if he's not in the room. So, he'll be here. All right.

So, Wyatt, you're going to be applying for some of these tags. Are you going to do the turkey? No. No. Come on. Well, what turned your crank? Tell us about this. Mammals. Yeah, mammals. Isn't there like you can hit one button and it's just reply all? Apply all. Isn't that like six or 700 bucks? Yeah. Cow, elk, and all the turkey. Exactly. Yeah, cow, elk, turkey. Bear. If they gave you a cow elk tag, would you take it? No. No. You wouldn't take it? No, I don't need meat in the freezer that bad. Jeez. What do you hunt for, Wyatt? The trophy? Are you that shallow? It's only the trophy? Are you that shallow? I am that shallow. Me too. Hey, who's that shallow here in the room? I imagine our tag list will look very similar, Jason. Okay. Two or three deer? You can drive to Lins and get a rack of ribs. Pretty easy. They make them every day. Yeah.

They have to go up on the mountain and trudge through snow. They sell them every single day. Yeah. It's a beautiful thing. No, we eat our meat around here, so I don't want to discount that. Don't want anybody calling out Logie Bear. Logie Bear, you eat meat? I do, yeah. All right. Did you eat your gunnison deer? Oh, yeah. Was it good? Yeah, it was good. Yeah? All right. Well, good work. Well, let's get to good stuff. Yeah, let's move on. Logan, have we covered what we need to cover? Yeah. Guys? We're pretty good. Let's get to it. So, Hunter, welcome. Thanks. Happy to be here. Hunter's our rep with Zeiss. As everybody knows, Epic Optics is a thing. We sell a ton of optics here at Epic Outdoors, and we appreciate everybody that calls in. We sell a lot of Zeiss, and rifle scopes, binoculars, everything, spotters, everything Zeiss-related. And what a great product.

You get a great price point. I think, I know for a fact we sell more Zeiss rifle scopes, maybe three-fold, than anything else that we offer.

Vortex. Of course, we do all the big name brands, but Zeiss is definitely rifle scope-wise. With the variations of all the reticles, the different models, illuminated, non-illuminated, powers, all of these things, they just, man, they're just incredible, especially in that realm. But we have some new products coming out, and maybe, Josh and Hunter, you guys can kind of tell us what you've been working on and what's coming with the Epic Order. We've ordered a bunch recently as well. Yep. So, got the 15s here. There's only a few of them in the country right now, but... This is a pair of them. Yep. And they're the HDX? HDX, Conquest HDX, 1556s. The 1042s have been out now, well, 60-ish days. Sales have been amazing with those. But the 15s brought these out here for these guys to see this morning. Josh, maybe you could tell us kind of what your initial thoughts, looking through them.

They're awesome. We looked through the 10s, yeah, like you said, it was about a couple weeks ago when we got them, I think. Yeah, it was probably a month ago now, I guess. And they're amazing. I was pretty blown away. You know, some of the, I don't know exactly all the details, what you guys did, comparing those, some coatings and some glass changes and some things like that, some of the technology with it. But the 10s were amazing when we were looking at it with a bunch of other glass and other comparable 10x42s and stuff. And there was no difference. I mean, they held their own against any of them. It was pretty awesome. And then we just barely had the 15s as well, did the exact same thing with them. And even though it was a little bit of a tough morning for glassing out there, there was a little bit of inversion going on. They were impressive. So why did they come out with this model?

What was the need, what's the niche they're filling with this model? So the Conquest HDs have been in the market for years and years, 10 plus years. And what I like, just to interject a little, what I liked about that was they had a tripod adapter. They were extremely affordable, okay, very affordable. And it was Zeiss glass. So it was awesome. And so then they came out with these. And of course, we had a Victory Series, a whole lineup, right, that was within a Victory Series. But then what niche does this fill? You're in that $18.99 price point for the 1556s. A couple upgrades we did. Magnesium housing, so they're a lot lighter. Eye cups, updated eye cups. The glass is brighter. And a locking diopter. So it's going to all come in at the same price point as the old ones. No price increase. And you get all those upgrades. Yeah. And like you said, the 15s do come with the stud.

And that stud and the tripod adapter. Wyatt, you noticed that adapter. Tell us a little bit about what your thoughts were on that. It's a pretty awesome setup. It actually has kind of like a dual lock system on it. So in the past, I've had binoculars actually fall off my tripod. I like them to be pretty dang secure. And with this, they have... Are you one of those guys that packs them over your shoulder? I do. I throw it over my shoulder. You just treat them like you drag them behind a four-wheeler. Yeah, point to point. I just throw them over my shoulder and go kind of deal. So they have the same flip down that you've seen on a lot of other binoculars there. And then they have this locking button here to kind of secure it. So it's kind of double locked in there. Yeah. So super secure. You're not feeling like... I mean, you have to drop that down plus depress the button to get them off.

Push the button to get them to come off. Yep. So I don't feel like I'm going to be losing those off a tripod. And that's all included in the price. Normally an adapter. Yeah. Rough figures. $100 or $200. $200. Yeah. Yeah. $189. It's like a guy goes to buy a pair of binoculars and you're like, oh, and hey, by the way, how are you going to put those on a tripod? Would you like eye cups with those binoculars? Yeah. And they're like, no, I got to spend $200 to use them. You know? And so that's... I mean, that's amazing that it comes with it. And it's a quality adapter. And that's pretty awesome. $10 per cap. You know? Exactly. You want a box? You really want a box? Because we could just shrink wrap this thing. So anyway, it does feel like that, but that is nice. And it's not just a chintzy rubber band over the top, you know, adapter. These are actually built.

Does the stud come in it or is that separate and you would actually... Yeah. So they ship with the cap. Okay. So you take the cap off. Take the cap off. And then take an Allen screw or whatever it is. Yeah. Put it in. 30 seconds, you're done. Yeah. There you go. And then that stud stays on forever and then you've got the adapter and off you go. I like the feel of them. The design, like you said, they changed a few things. The eye cups and the feel. You know, the old Conquest HDs felt a little like a brick in your hand, you could say. You know, they were just kind of square. And not... I mean, you put them on a tripod, but they were just... But I like the design of them and the eye cups. Like you said, they go a little more flush. The other ones stuck out quite a ways. And so I definitely like the eye cups. Because I like to get as close as I can to them without putting my eyes on them.

Do you put... Like when you're glassing, you have your eye cups all the way in. I do. All the way in. All the time. Flush. Even hand-holding them on the tripod. And I have mine out, Bronson. Me too. I have mine out like a third to a half. A little bit. A little bit. Not full. Yeah. If you get your eyelashes blinking on it all the time, they get crap on them. Yeah. Especially like mascara. Well. You know. I don't hunt with ladies, but maybe Janet using yours. Extensions always get in the way. Exactly. All right. So. And then why... How do you glass... You have them flush. I have them all the way in. Is that for field of view? I think a little bit of field of view. It feels like when they're all the way in, you have a big field of view. You see a little more. The downside is you have sunlight. Light on the side. Yeah. And that's the thing like with me when I have them out.

There's like a tub looking through a little bit of a tunnel. A tunnel. Yeah. Toilet paper roll. With these, it's like it's a fresh screen right in front of you. Probably has something to do with how your eyeball's sitting on your face too. Some people's eyeballs are... That's right. Sticking out a little bit more. Some are on the sides of their heads, we've decided too. Some experiments. Hans? Hans? I mean, we're out doing the comparison and it's really hard when these guys have eyes on the sides of their heads. Hey, you're not going to sneak up on me. But just for me, I used to have... So back in the day, we're talking the 90s and 2000s. I had to take... Oh, I had to shave off the rubber coating to get them close enough. In the inside to make them fold close enough. On an old swirl, you've got narrow eyes. Oh, geez. You had to... There's a pig farmer in you. Come on. Okay.

Never farmed a pig. Hunter, have you ever farmed a pig? I have not. You're from Beaver County. I am. Those pigs have... They were responsible for a lot of economic growth. So, Josh, you better be careful. Think a pig farmer. That's what I'm doing. I'm thinking a pig farmer today. Come on. Really? How are you going to do that? I'll eat some bacon. Logan, what are we going to do with him? I don't know. I can't even sit here quiet without catching a stray from the conversation that's going on. So, what I like about these... So, we're talking magnesium housing and real world change that actually makes a difference glassing. The weight... We throw 15s generally in our pack, have 10s on our chest. That's kind of the common thing here in the West, right? I use 8s a lot. No, Adam, he likes 8s too, right? Never used a pair of... Okay. And then 12s. 12s are common too to have.

And then if you want a little more power, we'd throw 15s in our pack. So, the weight makes a difference. The brightness and clarity is significant in these. I mean, do you... I don't know. Sometimes that's proprietary information. You don't throw that out to the world. And there's, of course, you know, the big brands are always wondering what each other are doing, just like Coke and Pepsi or whatever. But it is significant. And probably a lot of R&D went into that, huh? Yeah, lots of R&D. And the big thing with glass is people's eyes are going to like different things. So, I mean, you can put two people out there, same exact binoculars, and somebody might like this one a little bit more. The coatings, they're never exactly the same. So, we'll say 92% light transmission, and that's minimum. So, you could get a pair that's 94. Oh, really? Yeah, just because of...

It's a mechanical process to put them together. Correct. Right? Yep. And so, we can make... Well, and what's unique, though, is the price didn't change. Correct. Yeah, that's... They're all the new advancements. They're lighter, better coatings and everything like that, which everything goes up. Everything in the world's gone up. These haven't. Food. That's right. I mean, every truck. Bacon. Bacon. Bacon. Bacon. Shipping. Everything. So, that's nice. These are going to be, I think, at an awesome price point. Awesome. I mean, you know, we're going to be able to... That's another thing. Can we talk about that? Do we anticipate these here by the end of the year, hopefully? Is that what we're able to say? Are we able to say that? Yep. So, we've got a shipment coming to the states right now. So, it should be... You guys were first in, probably, throughout the nation, ordering.

Plus, we're paying Biden tariffs instead of Trump tariffs, huh? So, we'll be... Pass that on to the consumer? Yeah. Exactly. I guess. I don't know. I don't know what that means. I'll pay it, though. I'm excited to pay it. So, what we're thinking by the end of the year, hopefully. Yeah. Hopefully. All right. At the Expo, for sure. Yeah. Oh, for sure. So, is this one of two pair in the entire United States? You said a few. Correct. Or a few? One of two? Jeez. I would dare say one of two of full production. I mean, the R&D models. I want to touch them one more time. Yeah. I want to make sure my DNA is all over these things. Put your fingerprint on the lens. Okay. I'm not dirty at them. You got to buy them. Again. No. I'm not buying them. You got to buy those. No. Yep. I mean, if he would let me, I would. Are these for sale? Maybe in a couple weeks when we get some more.

I don't want them after Josh gets done with them. Well, they're awesome. They're going to be great. You know, we've kind of been holding off on, you know, the other ones have kind of been, I guess you'd call them discontinued, knowing that these were going to be coming out. And here they are. We're impressed. So, did you, you showed us a little bit of video. Was that through these? Mm-hmm. So, your phone scope's already made an adapter, or was that already one that they were already had built that was universal? So, I-cups are going to be the same as the SFLs. Okay. So, they had that I-cup for the SFLs. Okay. I just threw it on there. So, threw a phone scope adapter on there, and you videoed it. It was cherry footage, a big old cheater. But where's that buck at, anyway? It's Pengwich. Oh. Nice. That's where everything good comes from. Oh, really?

Not surprised. And where all the hunters are going to be this fall? Yeah. Yeah, come. It's great. It's great. Winter range is full of. Oh, yeah. Yearlings. Doe's. Yearlings. Yes. Freshies. Yeah. Young ones. All right. Okay. Well, cool. And so, what else have we got? How did this morphs off into the 10s, the 15s? What other products will come out in this model? So, we've got a product for the long-range shooting community coming out. Probably about first-ish of the year, we'll have a little bit more information we can divulge on that. But something for that PRS crowd. Oh, okay. Yeah. All right. Anybody here? Well, that's not necessarily me. I mean, we shoot long-range. But there's guys that incorporate. Spotter. The spotters. Spotters. Yeah. And MOA. Even radicals and some of those things. Yeah. So, who knows what that's going to look like. Can't necessarily talk about it necessarily.

But it'll be cool. Yep. It'll be awesome. Yeah. Something that will fill a hole that we've had for a little while. Go back up real quick. So, we do have the Zeiss Conquest HDX. All the notifications. Yeah. So, they're available in, say, right there. The 8x56, 10x56, 15s. And then the 42s. 42 is kind of, for a 10 and an 8 is kind of the popular, you know, for light gathering here in the West. Why? I just think, I don't know. 32s are fine. They come out in an 8 and a 10, 32. You know, quite a bit smaller. But it's just interesting how people are hung up on a 42 just because of the verbiage. They don't even know what the difference between a 42 millimeter objective and a 32 would really look like. But we are accustomed to a 42 around your neck. Especially out West. I mean, if you're a, I don't know, white-tail hunter back east and you see 100, 200 yards,

I mean, a smaller, lighter little pair of 32s is probably fine for you. But, like, out West, we're kind of, you feel like you're giving up light gathering, feel the view with the 32. I know. We're in a tree stand, so they want everything just super, but still, you would think, you know, those are dark forests, get dark early, and some of those canopies that they're hunting in, you would think you'd want more light gathering. But anyway, interesting. But that comes from an 8 power clear up to a 15 power. And I love it. Is that where you'd say, Hunter, you'd use like that 8x56? Is that kind of where they're using that stuff, a darker forest, closer range, but they want more light gathering kind of thing? Yeah. I wonder where they use those. Is that in the European market or something like that? It's probably a pretty big bino, I'd assume. Yeah.

The European market is definitely built for that. I mean, they'll hunt. They put their cheese and wine down and pick up their 8x56s. Yep. That's right. I mean, it doesn't matter because they're in box blinds or whatever and they've got space and room. And they'll hunt, I mean, at nighttime with these binoculars because the light's so good. I mean, and rifle scopes, it's a completely different hunting world over there. Like penguins. Kind of like penguins. Exactly. Guys hunt at night up there. Yeah. Pollock's ears perked up when you said night. I mean, he was over there ready to pipe in. I can see in the dark of these things. I know what he's talking about. I know he's thinking some things. Yep. His commute, his wintertime commute has a lot of nighttime commuting. That's all it is.

It's dark. And so he's doing some glassing on his way over. All right. Okay. I don't see us selling a lot of 8x56s out here. Probably not 10x56 either. And the birding community. Okay. 8s and 10x56 just to have a big field of view. Where's the chickadee? Oh, I see it. That's John. We need John. John identifies with the birders. We are missing him. He would definitely dive into this. Okay. So is there a lineup with the HDXs and rifle scopes or anything like that coming out or no? What was that? Is there a lineup like the HDX model? Does that morph into anything but binals? Nope. Just the binals. Just binals. Yep. Okay. So yeah, if you're looking for a pair of 15s, definitely I would 100% consider these, which I don't know. We talk to a lot of guys and a lot of guys will call and say, I need to get a spotting scope or what do I need to get?

And we always tell guys, if you can get a pair of high magnification vinyls, like a pair of 15s. Tripod, mined vinyls. Number for out west. Like you definitely do. It's going to make your glassing experience and stuff so much better. So definitely if you're in the market for a pair of 15 power, I would 100% look at these for sure. They're impressive. We did side-by-side comparison with a lot of other brands and whatnot. So no joke. Yeah. Right up there with the absolute best. Yes. Side-by-side. Awesome price point. Absolute best. Can't beat it. Price point. No. Awesome. You can't. All right. So, okay. What else do we got here? We got a rifle scope. Another toy it looks like. Yep. So the V8. We're really excited about this product. We've had the V8 line in the United States for, it's been a while, but it's pretty European. It had backwards. It was in centimeters and whatnot.

So we've got finally an MOA turret. Okay. It's got the finest illuminated red dot on the market. Came from the medical side of the world. It's finer than a human hair, actually. Put together in a vacuum. It's incredible how that thing's put together. And so I think they've, is this the one where they, I mean. Split the atom? What are you talking about? Well, like they only allow certain people. Who was telling us like. They're only certain people that could act. It's hand placed and there's like two ladies that have this process down. Correct. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Okay. And we found, they found that women have a lot more stable hands than men. Yeah. So that's kind of why that came in. But it is super, super, super fine. Yeah. It's put it, the way it's laid in there, it's at a perfect angle. So it, I mean, it can't be off by. Yeah. Nothing. Nothing. Got to be. Perfect.

Square to your eye or whatever. Yeah. So you see the full. So tell us about the features on this scope. Yeah. I know Devin, Devin. Devin. So Devin's headed out to White Town. He was. He's. Well, he went up to the place where, you know, all the information was unveiled and the trial and all of that. And he loves it. Like he thinks this is number one. He's ready to go. He thinks this is absolute number one. Yeah. Tell us about the new. Yeah. You said a few of them here a minute ago, the MOA turret, which is giant for most of all this American shooter. But anyway. And it's got 72 MOA of total elevation. So. Tons of adjustment. Yeah. You're shooting 1400 if you want. In most all calibers. I looked at it last night on my Creedmoor because I figured we'd talk about that. 6'5 Creedmoor, 72. It was like 1760 yards. Chase, come on. I mean. What's that in a 300 run? Two miles? Three? Just saying.

If you're getting a Creedmoor to shoot that distance with early scopes, you've got plenty of adjustment. You can shoot anything you want. Because really it's a need more. No, it ain't. Come on.

All right. Keep going. 2.8 to 20 by 56. Light transmissions. I mean. Up there with anything you're going to get. Best optical quality in a rifle scope, in my opinion. Yeah. That's what. So. So. So. Devin has dealt with a lot of. In fact, that was his prior employment was dealing with rifle scopes, rifles, custom rifles, and clientele. Constant. Non-stop. Every day. All day long. He went through this and it is no joke. He's like, this is the absolute best. So. What are you looking at there? What are you turning there, Paul? Tell us. I mean, you're. Is that the. It's well used. Yeah. Paul just touched it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's working that dial over. What did you find? Just the illumination. Yep. Of it. Let's see. Is that the illumination or is it on the side like the other V4s were? Nope. So that's the parallax on the side and then the illumination's on that knob.

So that's just the brightness or density of the dot. Yep. And then it's got all. And then it's star bursting on me, so I'm going to adjust this. Boom. Yeah. Sharpened right up. You know, that's one thing I've noticed, too. It's funny when you're looking indoors sometimes with those red dots, you'll get a little bit of that. Well, because you're looking at it. You're looking at it. No, it is, but you can adjust it right here and it sharpens it. There. That dot sharpening right up. If you tip it up or tip it down, auto on and off. Oh, really? Don't burn up battery. Yep. No kidding. What do you mean? That's what I like about it. There it went on. Yep. Is with that, that's why I was messing with it. Like, the push button for the illumination is nice. You know, on like those V4s, it's on the outside. And so sometimes you're like trying, you want to turn it on, but then you're adjusting

the parallax, kind of like it's on the outside of the parallax. So you're kind of trying to turn that on. That's no joke. And it's awesome. It's awesome. I'm talking. Bronson. Okay. So that's what I like about that is that push button illumination. This is what I love about Bronson. For a lot of days. So he comes in. We come in the office first time. Monday is really the first day we're all in together. Bronson's like. Well, what? We had a, I had a. Bronson's like. I closed a chapter over the weekend. Well, over the weekend we closed a chapter. We killed our last sheep of the year. So I'm done, done, final done. Not just kind of done. And I'm final done. Okay. And I'm final done. So Monday. We all have clean slates.

Bronson's like. I'm not thinking about a single thing. Don't even bring anything up. Booking hunts, no. Tags, no. Everything, no. I just need a week or so to decompress. You guys are going to have to try really hard to talk me into anything for the next two weeks. It's been a long year. So then some random muley whitetail opportunity in three hours. And it'll no less comes up. Three hours later? Oh, three hours. Probably five. A half hour of visiting and understanding what it all entails? Sign me the freak up. That's what I heard from my office. Well, yeah. It's amazing what a couple nights, consistent nights, three nights in your own bed will do for your psyche. I'm ready to go. And I've been excited about this, too, because I have a lot of Zeiss scopes on my rifles. I have a lot of V4s because they have the illuminated option. I have a couple V6s because I like them, too.

I like some of the shorter scopes on some of my sheep rifles. I love that reticle. I think it's a 93 or 4. I can't remember which one. 2 MOA on that one. But anyway. But now that you've got this, the higher optical advancements in this with an illuminated, this is what I've been waiting for. Feels like what would be. And it's an awesome. Tell me I'm wrong. It's like a 2.5 to 20. 2.8. It is. The problem is. The problem is. What? There's no problems. You've got an arsenal. I've got an arsenal. Are you going to have a complete changeover of all? You know what it's like when you get your gun, your scope, everything's perfect. I know that. I do like it. But just like in the past when other scope advancements have happened, what have you done? Every time I change up. Okay. You answered my question. It's not a problem.

What's the other factor with maybe you and I going on in our lives that's a little bit different than these? Maybe 30 years. I don't know how old you are. How old are you guys? About 20s, 40s. How old am I? I don't know. I'm not buying diapers. I know that.

I'm calling you 50. You're not 50, but I'm calling you 50. I'm about to buy my own diapers. That's what I'm about to do. My point is my eyes are changing and I notice. I notice rifle school differences. When I was in my 20s and 30s. Oh, you give me a 3.9 low pull that's from 1963. That's good enough. No more. I notice differences now. My eyes, I notice differences between, call it a lower end, even within a spectrum of a rifle manufacturer, something that worked now, I feel like I need more. I don't have the crispness out of it. My eyes just aren't as good as they used to be. That's the difference. I get that because when I started working here, I bought that V4 with the number 65 reticle and it's really fine. You know, Devin talked me into it. He's like, oh, that's an awesome find. I can see it great. And then a couple years later, I turned 40 and now I'm like, oh, man.

I need a first flat. Yeah. So now I have to go with the 89. It's the same reticle, but it's thicker. Oh, my God. That's better. Yeah. Six or eight years makes a difference when you get in your 40s to 50. And what I think is funny is Devin's like, I don't need an illuminated reticle. Remember when he was saying that? Oh, yeah. Josh, who called in the other day and talked to Devin, he's like, that illuminated reticle saved me. Yeah. On what? I wasn't there. It saves you. Well, I can't remember that situation. Was it a hunt this year? But I turned around to Josh because Josh was overhearing it and smiling. Oh. Because Josh loves the illuminated. And we always have this, you know, Devin's the young guy and doesn't need any help, right? Well, it's just nice. You don't know when you need it. But if you're looking into a dark timber canyon that's dark and you've got a black crosshair.

That's right. I mean, there's a few instances. I'd say 10 or 5% of the time. The radioactive isotopes. We need some of that built into the reticles. Well, that's illegal in some states, isn't it? I've started to turn mine on all the time. Like, just out of habit. And that's what would be cool about this scope was with you can turn it on. And then when you're carrying it, you know, when you've got it on your shoulder and you're walking on it, it's off. So I spent more than my fair share of time in a box blind, right? Whether it be Alberta, Oklahoma, whatever. We're talking whatever. Lots of days. And when you're there, like, say, in a gun clamp, it's just not. You're in a dark canopy all the time. You're just in a dark. There's always overcast in November, all of those kind of things. And I turn it on, chill it out, depending on the light level outside.

You can chill out that dot or you can make an aggressive dot. And it is so nice. You don't have to think. Like, when you've got reticles, your eye naturally goes to the center of the scope. That would be your center aim. But when there's a red there, it just, boom, finds it. Oh, you don't think about it. We were killing coyotes. It was just like. And that's what I've noticed, like, with my wife and kids and that especially. It's really good for that. And I was a little bit different. Me growing up, my dad was always like, you're not going to shoot a scope until you're 16. You know, you're going to learn to shoot open sights. And I'm like, I got my first 22, I got from my kids, those little rascals. I slapped a little, like, four power scope on it because I'm like, I'm not going to sit and fight you to say, here, it's right here. Look over here. Look over here.

I'm like, you're going to learn to find something to scope because I'm not going to deal about it later. And by the way, there's no hunts that need open sights. Yeah, exactly. Now we're going back to open sights. You're going to have to get them BB guts. Exactly. We're going to have to go back to it now. Depending. Depending on the unit you choose. That's what's been awesome is those kids are, and my wife, they're all, they're great shots and stuff. But by turning on that illumination and stuff, those reticles are a little busy like that one. If they were to look through that, I could tell, I would think that they would say, where do I hold? What do I do? I've got 10 lines I'm looking at. And it's not intuitive to a 12-year-old or whatever. Yes, you're like, put the red dot. And they're used to playing video games. So they're like, oh, yeah, we use the red dot.

Logie Bear understands electronics. Exactly. I do. If it doesn't have illumination, I don't know what I'll do. I wouldn't have it. Yeah, that's not for me. Old school stuff. That gets pretty fine if you keep turning that down. Oh, yeah. I mean, and we're in the daylight. But if you're hunting, when I was hunting coyotes a year or two ago with my son, you get out there, you're a little early, you're waiting for it to get light. And I'm looking through my rifle skull. And that's when I've noticed that first call of the day sometimes, and you're waiting for it to get light. You've got a black crosshair, and you've got black sagebrush out there. You can't see it. And you can see almost better with your eye. And you turn that on, start calling. You've got a little red dot. What's really bothers me a little bit? What? Well, just slightly.

Is I bought one of those Mountain Reapers in the 6.5 PRC. I'm like, well, I don't need a crazy wazoo scope with tons of adjustability. I could use an old scope that I took off of such and such gun and put it on this one. Well, it's old. It's not illuminated. You know what I mean? And so now I'm like, hey, I put it on. I got it all. Everything's cherry. Freaking lights out. Crazy shooting gun. Even with an 18-inch barrel, it's 750 yards. Nothing. Nothing. It's so tight. It's unbelievable. So now I'm going to have to take that scope off and get a new setup. So you're just accusing me of maybe doing that, and you're going to be doing that. I'm going to be doing that because it's not. These are light scopes now with all the new technologies, readjustments. They have everything you need. They have everything you need. And they're cherry. They got all the niceties, right?

Like I'm not buying trucks with rubber floorboards anymore. So to say. You know what I mean? Like I want some nice stuff. Like you want to have that illuminated. You want to have all the adjustability. What if? I just want to have it. Right. So to save an email to Hunter, I'm just going to write on a post-it note. We're going to need 10 more of these, it sounds like. Five. Five. Exactly. Well, if we get John to have five, we're good. We actually have a couple of these on the show. Don't we have? And Devin. Anyway, I love Devin's reaction. Like you get Devin wound up. Because it takes a lot to sell Devin on stuff. He's very particular. Particulous. I mean. What's another word? Let's go through synonyms for meticulous. Thorough. Thorough. Aggressive. What else? There's only one. Jason said it. No, there's only one Devin. Like I've never met another one like Devin. A little angry man.

No, he's just. What do you think? Why? You're quiet. I got no comments. Come on. Come on. He knows it. He knows he will get the Devin wrath and he'll be on the chopping block next time when he's not here and Devin is. I did. I was. It was good. The whole Alaska flight mix up. That was. That was refreshing. So tell me about that. He may be human. Well, we talked about it on the podcast. He jacked up our flight. He'd sketch it for the next day and stuff. That debacle. Yes. 24 hours off. Yeah. And Wyatt. He could see the whites of Wyatt's eyes. All of them. That was refreshing. Wyatt was like a wreck crazed moose coming in side-eyed. He's like, you did. What? We're sleeping where for the next 24 hours? That's so funny. The floor of the airport. We would have figured it out. There were some tent cities out there. He wanted to go see them anyway. Yeah. We had sights to see.

So tell us about the. Go ahead. Yeah, I was going to ask about the reticle. Different reticle options in those. So this one, it's the new AHR reticle, number 90. I saw that. We actually ordered them. Yeah. We have them on the shelf. Got a non-MOA post going up and then. Windage and elevation. Windage and elevation down has them, right? So keep it pretty clean, but also give those shooters that have a little bit more experience some judgment. Actually, so let's see. That one, it actually does have the. It does have the windage and elevation. Yeah, but you don't need it up. That's what it means. It just kind of clarifies that. Yes. And then you have the old standard number 60. Call it a duplex or whatever. Yep. I kind of like the simple because we're dialing so much, but there are guys that run out of dial, then you would have more.

Well, or if you are a guy that likes to kind of, if your range finder's showing you a 2, 3 MOA wind drift on your estimation. Every line's like 2. You've got it right there on your scope to just hold over on it. Correct. Yeah, and it's a capped windage, so you're not dialing windage. Yeah. You may be holding off a little bit of windage, whatever. Windage isn't, the capped windage, I think, is a big deal. Yep. It's just because. I don't dial it myself. Yeah, I think it was even Devin. Yeah, it was Devin on his deer here in Utah. It got bumped. Oh, it got bumped, and he was slightly off. And that's what happens when you got it over your shoulder. For a week, a week of a deer hunt. And so you're going to check every little thing in the heat of battle? No, you're going to kill it. You know what I mean? And then you're a foot off. Yeah, and you're a foot off or something.

So capped windage is a big deal in my mind. Those are the only two then right there, the 60 and 90? Just those two in the V8. Perfect. I like it. I mean, the 60s, they're a little simpler. I have a lot of those on some of my kids' rifles because they're just plain. They come in at like a map pricing of like $38.99, right? $38.99 for the 2.8 to 20. So that's just for the map pricing. Of course, call us, and we'll visit. We've got some on the shelf. Maybe even, well, who knows? Might walk out with a little better deal. You never know. But anyway, let's just do a quick recap on them. You've got the RS V8 Zeiss, top of the line, competes with anything, the very top scopes out there. Give us a quick rundown real quick. Correct, yeah. So main feature is 2.8 to 20, 30-millimeter tube, 72 MOA travel, I believe. Parallax adjusts down to 50 yards. Okay.

So, I mean, you can get really close with that 2.8. If you've got a close shot, you need to take lightweight. Transmission, I believe, is 92 light transmission on that. Okay. So 56-millimeter objective on the end. Yeah. Let's go back up there, Logan. So 2.8 to 20, and then you've got a little bit higher going to 30. Yep, 4.8 to 35. Yeah, 4.8 to 35. Yep. And so, anyway, probably that 2.8 to 20 is going to be a sweet spot for Western hunters. Most hunters. That other one would be for long-range shooters and that, or whatever. Or don't care about weight. Dark, dark, dark stuff. I mean, that's got a 34-millimeter tube, 60 objective, so it's going to bring in. 60-millimeter objective. I mean, you're talking like my .338 problem. Shooting in the moonlight. Pollock's ears. He's all over it. I mean, he's going to have the HDX. He's going to have the 8x56s.

He's going to have illuminated everything. Yeah. Maybe even thermal. Pollock. It's almost legal again. All right, so then, so that's awesome. What I like is you go all the way down to a bush gun, 2.8, like with really tight ranges. You're coming in at 50 yards or whatever. Going to the timber, yeah, exactly. All the way up to 20, that variation is awesome. And then a 30-millimeter tube, which is standard in the better scopes, like with a good range of adjustment. Yep. You need a 30-millimeter tube. Yep, and it's hard to get that much adjustment in that small of a tube. Yeah. So that's kind of one thing that sets ice apart from a lot of different rifle manufacturers. You don't have to go to the 34. Correct. Yep. You have to have the big old clumsy 34. And then cherry, cherry glass, the best they make. Best there is. How many of these do we have on the shelf right now?

I mean, not enough for your arsenal. I know. At least five. We need to make an order. That's what I'm saying. I'm going to post a note one down.

You're going to strike through on that one? Yeah, I'm going to make a bronze bundle. Is it cash or card bond? I mean, what are we doing? We take both. All right. So pretty awesome. Got projects over Christmas. I'm going to unmount and remount. Still running with the V4 lineup? All that? Yep. V4 is kind of our horse. I mean, it comes in there right at that amazing price point for what you get. Low grand. Yep. Low, right? Generally. Depending on your vertical combination, your magnification. And the internal workings are still, the V4, the way I understood it, the V4, V6 still had the same basic internal mechanical components. Correct. Just optically different. There was a glass difference. Yep. And it's like we said, I mean, there's only a couple people in the world that can put this scope together. Yeah. It adds a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Okay. Are they?

I'm just requiring minds want to know. Are they like training their replacements? These couple people? Because you think that'd be critical, critical. Absolutely. To do. Okay. Good. And the way it works over there, it's a lot different. I mean, you're going to high school thinking you're going to go to work for Zeiss after. So they're training. Yeah. It's a different world over there. Wow. You make plans early in life and then your whole education is built toward that? Towards.

Or whatever. Or whatever. Yeah. The tweezers, the human hair. Well, or glass coatings. Yeah. Whatever. I'm a glass cutter guy. Yeah. Logan, what would you be? I think I'd be doing this. I like it. Good response. All right. Okay. I'm impressed, of course. You know, when these, I've been gone a lot this fall, so I haven't had a chance to have this full explanation. And I don't know if I've been around the whole crew enough to, you know, warrant sitting down and, hey, somebody regurgitate what Hunter's given to them. But we've talked about it in the past, but I'm sold. Yep. I like it. We're definitely going to be doing it. I, they're just, they're great, especially for the weight. They're also, I don't know, nobody talks about the length, the overall length, but it feels like a shorter scope. It's shorter than like, yeah, some of them that we offer.

It's not, it's not as short as like 3.8 that I know Adam, or the V6. 3.18. But it, yeah, his is a shorter scope. It looks visually maybe a shorter, shorter than some of the V4s I have. Yep. Yeah. It's always. Yeah, this is definitely a lot shorter. The bell. Yeah. Bell on the end. Yeah. But, you know, like I said, the only thing about the V6s that I don't have, that I would want was the Illuminator. Yep. That's the only thing. But I'm not, I'm not going to change them. They're like cheap hunting rifles. I mean, I, there's no trees, there's no dark places. I usually, I've never needed on that, but, but, and I like the compactness, but this is kind of a, almost a hybrid between that V6 and V4, just looking at it the way that it's shaped. Yep. And we've got something almost for everybody in the V4, V6, and now the V8. Everything. The V6 doesn't come in the Illuminated. No.

You know, so you have the Illuminated option in the four and then the eight. Yep. And anyway, if there's anybody out there that's looking to upgrade or just has a gun that needs a scope on it or whatever, I've got a couple of those actually. What? Guns that need scopes? I hate to even say it. Got a 300 rum. That needs scopes? Yeah. What? Bare bones rifle. Okay. Well, we'll talk about it. You guys know. Yeah. This is food storage. Oh, yeah. I've got more guns. I've got more guns than I can stand. I've got another one of those. Yeah. Two. Yeah. I've got it with five box of ammo sitting there bare and it needs a V8 because you don't want to, you don't want to get a new rifle. The rifle, this is the way I look at it. Rifles are only as good as the optics you put on them. That's part of what I was talking about earlier. When I was, it's kind of like, it's kind of like bows.

We've talked about this when we shoot archery. You know, what we, you know, if the bow can shoot better than you, you're in good hands. You know, which, you know. If your equipment's holding you back, then that's a problem. That's when you advance. And with my eyes or just getting old or whatever, and you look, or just technological improvements with glass and coatings and all that, whether that happens and your eyes are fading over six, eight, ten years at the same time, and then you pull it up, you're like, I just can't get this as clear. It's time to upgrade. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. That's the only thing. It's not that it was bad or never is bad. It's just that your eyes change, your body changes, and technology's changing. We've all done it over 20 years. We've all updated glass all along the way.

And, you know, some of mine are, I'm not going to do it, some of mine are, you know, 250-yard coyote guns. I don't need a V8 on that. I don't, you know. But other guns that, you know, I maybe depend on, you know, once-in-a-lifetime shot, a sheep or a big deer, elk, all that, and have, you know, and I'm shooting it, and I want all my level of adjustment and clarity, you know. You know, kids' eyes, 18, 20-year-old kids' eyes, they can see through. It also feels like these are somewhat bulletproof in the respect. You can trip and fall and break them on a rock or whatever, but you remember 20 years ago, 15 years ago, we always took a second rifle to Colorado. We even felt like you need a third maybe or whatever just in the back seat, you know. I'm taking one rifle anymore. Like, I've been, because I've been doing a lot of these trips, I'm just like, I can't

remember the last time I broke a scope, per se. It feels like the equipment's better. Saying that, I had one of my V6 guns, 6.5 PRC, we've been in Colorado, and it was cold. It was the last day, and I'm hiking up to this glass of knob, and I didn't put gloves on, I left the truck, and it was cold, so I put my hands in my pocket, and I'm hiking up a steep hill, and I tripped on some. I tripped and face-planted with my gun on my shoulder, and I, you know, and you can't catch yourself. I body slammed my whole rifle and gun, my whole body weight on it. That one's for sale. No, it's not. Okay. And I'm like, okay, it's the last morning. This is bound to be the day I see a deer. And I didn't, but. It's dead on. Never did affect the zero. But that day, I'm driving off the mountain. I'm like, I got to shoot this, because we're going to go hunt sheep.

And I got a hunter flying in, and I'm like, this is, you know, I mean, I have time to shoot his gun. He might be using my gun in the morning, because I've told him, hey, we'll have a gun there. If he's getting there after dark, airline, you're not going to be able to shoot his. So I stopped midday, you know, perfect. And perfect, lined up, proned out, got my bipod out, put the gun in sandbag, shot. I had a little orange sticker on a box that I took over there, because I shot it on the way over, you know, just to make sure it was on. And it had a black circle. So I shot, and I thought, I missed the box. I'm like, this is off. I walk up there. It's dead center. Dead center black. It's in the black, in the orange. Didn't even move. Jeez. So, you know, just like you said, scopes are built different than when we were kids, Jason. They're just hard. They're just hardier.

I remember just recoil used to break scopes. My stock, it has a scar that big on my stock from where I landed. Just shredded my, you know, paint job. Well, Hunter, what was, I know when we were up at that shooting thing, they were talking a lot about the durability of scopes and the testing and what they do. Yep. So that's why I was having Logan pull this up here. We don't talk a lot about kind of what all these scopes go through. But for one example, they're heat and cold tested. And it's like negative six degrees Celsius to 130 degrees within five minutes. They go through all the shock tests. They're water tested. Wow. I had a guy actually up in Salt Lake area. He froze one. He completely froze. In water? Yeah. Completely froze it. Like heat test, was testing his own? Yep. Completely froze it. Took it out of the box. Worked perfectly. Wow. I wouldn't recommend that, but okay.

Yeah, because what you have, you would think, you would think the body would expand and then let in a little bit of moisture or whatever humidity is. You're thawing it in or unthawing it. But it does, I did notice there was some verbiage on there talking about being able to withstand the clip-ons. Like there's clip-on attachments and weights and things like that hanging off the end of the bell and all of that. And it talked about that right there, the ideally suited for clip-on attachments and whatnot, just talking about making them universal for, oh, there's thermal clip-ons. There's all kinds of things. Or some stage or whatever. Yep. And a lot of these scopes, I mean, before we release them, so if we turn this dial all the way up, all the way down, that's one time. They're tested tens of thousands of times to make sure they track.

So do you go to school over there saying, I'm going to high school, I'm a turret twister? No, that's a robot. Okay. Zzz, zzz, zzz, zzz. You'd get carpal tunnel by the age of 21. Yeah. And have arthritis, like, no joke, you'd wear out your joints. With that, somebody, I mean, a lot of end users that I talk to, they, well, first thing they ask me about is warranty. And so we do have a lifetime warranty. It's five years, no fault to you. After that, we'll do our best to take care of you. And the reason that's that way is hopefully we don't have that product in the market in five years. So we're always trying to innovate. Yeah. So the people are upgrading. Yes. That's the name of the game. If they break it after that long, we'll do everything that we can to take care of it. Yeah. I believe that. We've had very, very, very few people send stuff in.

But the people that do are happy with the customer service. Yeah, right there. Shock test. What's that shock test? Up to 1,500 G-forces. Where the heck? Logan, you were, just hit back. There you go. Shock test. Up to 1,500 times G-force. Let's see. Which corresponds to shooting the 460 Weatherby Magnum cartridge. 500 grain bullet traveling at 2,600 feet a second. I thought my muzzle or shooting a 300 grainer at 26 was a big deal.

If you don't have a muzzle brake on a muzzle or shooting a 300 grainer at 2,600 feet, it's going to break your jaw. Yeah. I mean, it hammers a guy. So anyway, these can handle all that. Yeah, there's a lot of testing, a lot more testing that goes into this than most people would ever realize. Pretty awesome. Great price point. Incredible product. Very top of the line. Super innovative. It's incredible. It's one of those things. I know the first time I ever had kind of, I guess you could say, my introduction to long range shooting, the first nice scope that I ever built that was more than a 3x9 and stuff that had a turret on it and all that. And I had a good friend that was telling me, and I had this $400 Ruger rifle, you know, and I thought my max shooting that gun was like 500 yards. It just, that's kind of how it was. I didn't, you didn't have a turret on it.

I was holding, you know, and, and, and I was like, I need to get a new rifle so I can shoot long range and all that stuff. It's like, you know, you don't just put a scope on that. That gun will do it, you know? And I think a lot of guys feel like they've got to spend a significant amount of money on a rifle and all this to get a rifle to do that. But you go buy a scope like this and throw it on a $400, I guarantee you, you could shoot a thousand yards, no problem. Like, you don't have to. You said guarantee? Yeah. Okay. Well, yeah. What, what, what, or what? Let's do it. You could do it. I don't know. Maybe. I mean, obviously. I think the, I think you're right though. I think there, but I think there's value in. Mine was a Ruger Woodstock $400 7mm WSM. M77. M77. And yeah, and I could shoot that, then I got it to where I could shoot it a thousand yards. Wow. You know, but 750, no problem.

Like it's, obviously, shooting a nice rifle is a significantly easier process than I see. I've got rifles. There's, a little bit of tweaking does help for sure. But, but optic is something a lot of guys kind of overlook a little bit. You know, they, getting a good optic is, is important for if you want to shoot. Yeah, I agree with you. That's what I was saying. The rifle's only as good as your optic. I think some of these guys put more value in getting this Wazoo rifle and don't really understand. You need to top it out. Yes. And that's where I was going. Like, it's not all in the rifle. Like the optic and you being able to, you've got to perform with that rifle and the rifle will do it. But it's only as good as you are. So. I've got some stories. I wouldn't mind hearing some of your guys' stories at some point in life.

But you remember when we didn't know about turrets and, and reticles and all that. Take jobs on the stock and holdovers. 2003 was my, my last of those kind of experiences. And it was. Not pretty. Well, well, I mean, I was shooting like 400 yards. But it might as well have been a mile. And I walked it in there and, and I fixed, fixed, and got the job done. What species? Oh, it was that Mulder. My big Mulder in Nevada. Yeah. Pretty boy. Non-typical. Two 34 net. And just, it was 400. And, and, you know, I know the world. By yourself. Nobody wants to talk about the things we used to do because they, they just scream unethical and you're the most unethical guy in the world. And, but even my first deer was a 308. My mom's rifle was magnaported on the end or whatever. Walked it in. Yeah. Before my dad could walk his in. Yeah. And. Shooting the same deer. Yeah. For sure. You did that. Yeah.

We did that. Right. And, and, uh, anyway, kind of funny. It's just amazing how time has changed. Times have changed. I mean, there's no reversing. There's no reversing this. We talk about the advancements in technology. There's just no reversing. Was your first, was those first guns, were they even variable scope? I started with a Leupold fixed four for eight, six. Remember mine? Simmons straight eight. Four. Yeah. Aaron. It rolls off your tongue. Aaron used to fix six. Yeah. We didn't use mag, I mean, three to nine. You know, there's no going back. A four power scope. Yeah. Fixed. Might as well be open sight. Now you've got binos with ballistic calculators, 900 yard shots. Yeah. I mean. Oh, it's crazy. It's, I mean, it's fun, but, but these scopes have just made it, and they're more durable. I mean, that's what I think we all, we all, we all remember is just a little knock on the

scope and, you know, you feel like the scope's off and ruined or whatever. Just a little. Yeah. I'm impressed. I was impressed after that. Because I, I honestly, I was scared to take, I did have a neoprene. I carry, I still, when I'm carrying a gun in the field, I put a, like a neoprene scope cover over it just to keep mostly dust and grime and dirt and whatever, snow off it. And I was scared to pull it off and look through, so I thought, this thing's going to be shattered. I hit it so hard. Yeah. As hard as you could. It'd be almost if you just. Used it as a handyman jack or a shovel. Just slammed it. Just used it as a shovel. With 200 pounds landing right on top of it on rocks. It was, it was, anyway, and it was dead zero. That's a gun that I have zeroed at 100 and it hit the bullseye. I mean, it was, that was impressive. So, anyway. Yeah.

I, that big buck, I may or, I did hit him a few times. Did you? May or may not have been in jump body cavity. Well. All of those times. But, anyway. And Adam, you bring up. Josh, you just, you have the look of, you remember some stories on your own. Oh, yeah. Oh, no. I remember. Like, if they're this, you got to hold this. You got to put it right here. Put them on the top of, don't leave hair. Yeah, yeah. I'm holding it at the top of his head, but you're over his shoulder. You know, that's how high you got to hold this little drop in there. Oh, yeah. Did anybody claim unethical? No. They were all doing it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You bring up zero on your rifle at 100 yards. And that's one thing where our rifle scopes definitely edge out a lot of competition is they've got so much adjustment for a hunting rifle. There's no need. Doesn't matter. There's no need to do a 200 yard zero.

I have some of mine at two and I have some at one. And the benefits of that, if it's zeroed at two, you don't have to start dialing as quick or as much as early. But when you travel with a gun, like especially when you go up north. Nobody's checking your zero at two. Nobody has a 200 yard range. They check it at one. They're like, you're a little hot. You fly to Northwest Territories and it's a thick timber. They've got a 100 yard range. And so all my sheep guns I have at 100 because if you travel, that's all you're going to be able to check it out. And you don't worry. You're dialing a little bit sooner like you might start dialing at 250 or something instead of 300 or something on the others. But you can, just like there, if I had to get down and find a 200 yard spot, there's just more variability. If you have a great rest and all that, shoot at 200.

And then it affects your confidence when they're saying, oh, you're a little high. I'm a little right. Yeah, well, you shoot at 100, you're just zoomed in, you're tied, you know, shooting at 100. What I do think has cost a few animals, and just hear me out just a little bit. We're so used to dialing that we feel like we have to dial even if it's 125 or 225 or 275. 219 yards. You've got to dial. What's the difference, do you think, between a 200 yard zero and dialing it, taking the time to range it and dial it for 275? Just shoot it. Just shoot the deer. Just shoot it. But people are so, oh, I've got to dial. It says 0.2 MOA. Whatever it is, right? And so I'm just saying, just shoot the deer. There's not enough difference. That, it's muscle memory now. You range no matter what. You dial no matter what. We're so ingrained in that. 2 MOA at 200 yards, that's only 4 inches. 4 inches.

That's a dead animal. And that's my point. I think it's cost people because we're so used to that. Whereas before, it would just be like, you know, get lead in the air. Now, fast. Well, and you can look at it like my hunter just threw out. But just look at your gun and your drop chart. And if you know you started getting 4, 5, 6 plus inches, just have that yardage in your mind knowing, okay, at that point and beyond, I probably need to dial. So below that, I just pull up and kill the deer. Slightly high or whatever, but we don't do that anymore. We're so mechanical because we're so reliant on these smart range finders that we're going to dial even if it's 263. It's 263 yards. What does dial say? You know? Shit. Just kill it. Wasting time. Just kill it. But anyway, just a little something. A little something, something.

What else haven't we covered, Hunter, about these two new products you guys wanted to highlight today? Any of the deer you've been looking at on the winter range? Just making sure some stuff stays alive. Finding Josh's deer on Panguitch. You know? Yeah. All those big giants that are roaming around on Panguitch. They usually hang out over there the whole time, too. Yeah. They don't cross the highway. Yeah. A couple wander over to winter, but they go right back in the spring. Yep. Isn't Panguitch one of those they're wanting to reduce your buck-to-dow ratios on? Yeah. How do you feel about that, boss? They want to do that in the whole city. We've got a surplus. No. Pine Valley there. So it's going to sustain it, apparently. You think it's fine? Heck no, it's not fine. You think the Panguitch is going to become more productive on 18 versus 15? You think that's a big deal?

You don't think it's a big deal? No. I don't know. I think they're onto something. Because when it was 18 to 20, when the herd was growing like it is now, and through the roof, and there were big deer and lots of deer. I'm bringing it down three. It's not going to allow more fawns to eat. No. You don't think these big bucks are eating them out of house and home? I'm just wondering what you really think about this stuff. No, because I commute like 60 miles every day, and most of the time during prime time, and I don't even have to. That's what I'm talking about right here. I don't even have to worry about hitting them. Have you seen his headlights? The little green lantern. His headlights. He's got one optic that's worth more than that car. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good commuter. But his headlights, he couldn't see a deer at 50 yards. He's not worried about hitting a deer. You need a head.

You need a... I've seen cars like yours, okay? Let's call it a $1775 special, $1,775 special, or whatever it is. Yeah. I've seen 56-inch light bars on the tops of those cars. And here's the thing. I've thought about it, because this time of year, it would be nice, because I might be able to see a little extra farther, so get a little extra scouting in. But you'd be spotlighting with a gun on your vehicle then. The problem is, I know if I sink any sort of sizable money, even though that's not sizable money, the second I do, next week it's done. What do you mean? The engine will go. Yeah. It'll die. It'll die. The second I take time to wire up a thing, because I'm not going to have somebody else do it. You take all the auxiliary products off and put them on the next green lantern. I won't, because I'm going to take the time to do all that, the time and money to

do it, and then it's going to die. I'm impressed. Jeez. When a car bottoms out at $299,999, and he's gone for a year or two since? Oh, yeah. Is that you have? Oh, yeah. Yeah. $300. So what do you figure? So it's probably got $360 now? 30 years? I don't know, because I don't know when it hit $299. So how do you do oil changes? How do you feel good about that? I just do it myself. Well, like what? Every three-month interval? Well, every two weeks, remember? I do it $7,000 to $10,000. $7,000 to $10,000? No, no, no, no, $7,000 to $10,000. A couple times. How do you know? It's not reading. Do you have a little pocketbook in there? I just think it's been about a month, and I average as many miles a month with that many trips over there. It's time to do it. It's not science. I'm thinking 2003. Everything you do, Josh, is science.

I add oil to it every now and then, and then I'm like, yeah, it probably needs some news. Do you? So this is what, Wyatt, anybody that wants to buy a used tundra, Wyatt's going to have one for sale. Do you run regular gas, medium grade, or a premium? It's, I try to fill up over here at the Sinclair, because I get 10 cents off. Oh, you do? Well, it's cheapest, but it's also 80, the lowest grade is 87. So it's not 85. Oh, so you feel good about that. Yeah. So I can actually get 87. And how do you get the 10 cents off? You got to pay $100 membership fee per year? No, it's just an app. Oh, an app? But then don't get into that with Devin, because they've got my card. And they now solicit you and sell your personal information. I can authorize my pump as I'm getting into it. I can hit pump three, pull up, don't even have to get my wallet out, don't even have to get back in and go. You can.

Oh, it's easy. I did not know that existed. Oh, yeah. As I'm driving a car, I can hit pay. So the Sinclair app has your card on file. That's the same as like your iWallet or whatever, the Apple wallet. Yeah. It's the same as the Apple wallet. I think Love's does it too, whatever. I don't know. You don't have to get out. The only thing you have to do and you're ticked about is you have to put the nozzle in. Yeah. I wish somebody would be there. Oregon. Oregon will not let you gas yourself. I think they changed that. They did? My daughter lives. I think they relinquished the law. Because there was probably liability. Somebody probably put diesel in a gas car and then they're like, well, you wouldn't let me fill myself. I don't know. Something. I don't think after COVID they had enough employees. Yeah. I think it. Oh, there you go. They dropped it in recent. And they're all high now.

But that Sinclair app. Every nozzle's green, man.

It's a green day out there. Your Sinclair app must be tracking you if it knows when you're pulling up. Oh. So it knows where all the big buttons are on the penguins. He has locations allowed always, always, always. When you go down through all the apps, every location's attached to the app. And Josh is. It's easier for tax purposes.

They know he's not making money in a foreign country. Well, this has been good info today. I'm excited. I'm literally, I can't get off this headset fastener to walk in there and grab a couple of these off the show. We know. I'm serious. We've already got them sent. There's going to be a quiet moment in the office today and I'm going to hear a box. Not even a look and he's going to be in there in his office. No. I just know in two, three weeks we get this next magazine done over Christmas. I'm going to unmount and mount scopes. We need an Epic app that people can just tap and go. Just tap it. So you could be part of that. We could tap your card. Josh, tap his card. Boom. Out goes Bronson. Well, I'm ready. By next hunting season, I'm going to upgrade a couple of my scopes. Set it here. All right, everybody. So we do have the Epic Optics here at Epic Outdoors.

Anything you're looking for optics-wise, no matter the brand. And, of course, we're talking about Zeiss today and incredible products that they have coming out. We've got them on order. We do have some of these. We talked about these Rivalscopes, the RSV-8. We have them in stock. If you want one, call us first. If you don't. We've got great pricing. Of course, happy to visit with our members about everything optics-wise, including your hunt application schedules and things like that, which is top of mind right now as people are getting ready to apply. If you need help applying, of course, we do that too, Bronson. We're helping guys like it's our freaking job every day, day in and day out. Busy time of year, huh, Wyatt? It is busy. Because Wyatt can attest. What do you do on a daily, Wyatt? Me? Wake up. 6.29.

You can roll in at 6.29, but prior to that, what's your breakfast routine at the moment? You were on a bagel and a half an egg or something, but what are you at now? Oh, we don't even. Fruity Pebbles. I think it's Fruity Pebbles and 2%. It's been a granola bar. Just get here. Start going. Part of that is probably to avoid the hassle. Not necessarily the hassle, but just where did you put the cereal bowl was kind of a significant topic at your house. No, I've got a small child at the house. Don't want to wake him up before I leave kind of deal. Yes. And you've got to clean it. The dishes stay clean and everything stays clean. But if you just have a granola bar from the hunting season. It's a grab and go. It's a grab and go. Ooh. That would be a good little fast food or, you know, like a Maverick gas station. Grab and go. Isn't that the one that? No, that's come and go. No.

The one's in town. What's the KB's changing to? On the run. Is it on the run? Something like that. On the run? That's what it is in Panguers. They change them to the one. Okay. Anyway. Anyway. All right. So Wyatt's in his routine. And then when you get to work, Wyatt, what's your routine like? It's applications right now. They're heavy. Full swing. Like applications. Talking to guys, getting the renewals in. Pretty hot and heavy. I like it. Josh, what's your routine when you come in?

Usually me and Wyatt have to talk about what we saw in the gram overnight. So you're scouting the gram. Kind of hash out some scandals. So the gram's not usually the first thing that has to get done. And then, yeah, just start going through optic stuff. A lot of optic cells. A lot of online orders right now. I think people are ready for Christmas. We have the Black Friday cell stuff. We're incentivized going over the weekend and got people shopping for Christmas. Yep. Usually handle online orders first thing. Get those out the door. And then start taking phone calls for optics and stuff. Or helping out with any of the magazine stuff. Yeah. Anything. Come to the shows. We're going to be in Reno at the Sheep Show or Salt Lake for the Western Hunt Expo. We're going to have all these there. So come and look through them and check them out.

And that will be a good place to look at it and see and pick one up. We're going to have them all there to purchase as well as look at. Okay. All right. Sounds good. Well, that's good for me. I'm good. You guys good? Hunter, you good? Thanks, Hunter. Appreciate you coming in. Of course. Appreciate you guys. Thanks for everything. Okay. All right, everybody. Good luck in the draws.

Let's face it. If your goal is to kill big stuff, you need to draw quality tags. Quality tags are typically hard to draw. To increase your odds of drawing good tags, you need to apply in multiple states. That's where an Epic Outdoors membership can help. For only $150 a year, you get access to our consultants, our online tools, and to Epic approved outfitters and members only optics discounts. With unlimited access to our team of consultants and access to the Epic Outdoors magazines, applying in multiple states is easy. No more worrying if you're applying for the best areas. No more applying for a unit where there has been a die off. And no more missing opportunities where you could be in the field and not sitting at home. Go online at epicoutdoors.com or call us today at 435-263-0777 to find out how you can become a member today. Kuyu is the most uncompromising camo on the market.

Their new Guide Pro Series is the toughest, most comfortable camo you will ever own. Check out their new additions and shop men and women's camo now at kuyu.com. That's K-U-I-U dot com. K-U-I-U dot com. Whether you're hunting sheep in the high, rocky altitudes or low crawling sagebrush for those desert mulees, Canetrek has you covered. Check out their world class Mountain Extreme Line and their brand new Bridger High boots at Canetrek.com. K-E-N-E-T-R-E-K dot com. Applying for tags in multiple western states can be time consuming. At Epic Outdoors, we have you covered. Whether you want to expand your hunting portfolio or simply ensure that you never miss a deadline again, the Epic Outdoors License Application Service is exactly what you need. It's like having the best CPAs in the finance world do your taxes. Let the best hunting application gurus in

the world do your tag applications. You'll never miss a deadline, you'll never apply for the wrong unit, and you'll never apply for a unit that's having a die-off. Your time is valuable. We do the work, you draw the tags. Epic Outdoors License App 435-263-0777. With fierce rifles, every detail matters. They are hands down one of the best rifle manufacturers in the industry, and they never seem to stop making new innovations. If you want to get serious about your long-range shooting, call us to talk over your options for your next fierce rifle. Epic Outdoors is an official fierce rifle dealer. Our consultants know their

whole line of rifles inside and out. 435-263-0777. Epic Optics is an authorized dealer for Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, Vortex, Leopold, Kawa, Sig Sauer, and more. Here at Epic Optics, we are committed to getting you the best deal for the glass that fits your needs. Go to epicoptics.com or call in to speak with our consultants who will fit you with the perfect optics for your next hunt. 435-263-0777. If you're looking for your next hunting property, look no further than St. James. St. James are the experts in all sporting properties across the West. Their team of agents will spend the time getting to know you personally and find out which property out of the hundreds they have listed is perfect for you. If you've always wanted a property where you could hunt and fish, go online to stjamesportingproperties.com

or give them a call at 855-711-7577 to learn more. Vortex makes optics for every occasion. Whether you're a long-range shooter dialing in that perfect shot or an archery hunter in need of an easy-to-carry optic without sacrificing quality, Vortex has you covered. Head over to epicoptics.com or call us to learn more about your Vortex options today at 435-263-0777. From top of the line hunting blinds to game calls that can't be beat, GSM Outdoors has you covered for whatever outdoor equipment you need. For all of their products, head over to gsmoutdoors.com to learn more. Thompson Long Range has perfected the art of simple, affordable long-range shooting. If you don't want to calculate ballistics or adjust your turrets before making a shot, a Thompson Long Range system is for you. Simply range, place the hash mark for that distance on the animal, and pull

the trigger. They make top quality rifles and host a shooting school that will leave you confident in making shots out to a thousand yards. Visit ThompsonLongRange.com to learn more about purchasing your next rifle or booking your next shooting school experience. The crew at Epic Outdoors trust Stealth Cam trail cameras to get us through the scouting season. Stealth Cam is the leading trail camera brand because they never stop innovating. Check out their brand new line of trail cameras, including the Revolver 360 degree camera, at StealthCam.com. Epic Outdoors is an official Stealth Cam dealer. Call us to order yours today at 435-263-0777. Phone Scope changed the game with their digiscoping innovations and have remained the top phone-to-optic adapter on the market. Check out the incredible new Carbon Pro Phone Scope now at phonescope.com. P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P-E.com.

Outdoor Edge is the knife that we all use here at Epic Outdoors. Whether it's a replaceable blade or fixed blade, you will not be disappointed with your Outdoor Edge knife. Head over to OutdoorEdge.com and check out their brand new Razor VX knife today. Epic Outdoors is proud to be an official Zeiss dealer and optics partner. When it comes to top tier quality, Zeiss has been a leader in the industry for generations. If you're in the market for new optics, give us a call for unbelievable deals on Zeiss products. Giving you the highest quality and durability out there without breaking the bank is what makes Zeiss so good. Check out our website EpicOptics.com or call us at 435-263-0777 to find out which Zeiss Optic is perfect for you. Epic Outdoors is now an official CVA muzzleloader dealer. If you're in the market for a new muzzleloader, our staff can go over the

different options that you should consider. CVA muzzleloaders are the go-to muzzleloader for Epic Outdoors and crew. We've definitely got our favorite setups for Western big game hunting in stock. Call us today at 435-263-0777 to find out which CVA is perfect for your next hunt.