EP 348: Epic Q&A and Calling a Copper State Tag Winner

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He's got problems, Devin. Logan, why don't you just give us an update real quick? Just give us an update, get on your finger. Is this a podcast? Welcome, welcome, welcome. Are you worried about HIPAA? I don't know. I just didn't know. Anyway, yeah, I took my splint off after a month in the splint of it being broken, and I pulled the splint off, and it was crooked, like the top of my finger was pointing straight down. I thought I'd go back to normal after a few days, so I gave it a week, and nothing happened. And I went to my doctor, and he's like, this is bad. Your tendon, when you smashed it, got cut in half, basically, and it's like drawn back into your finger. So you might need surgery, and then. Because it retracts, and they can't just pull it back. I have a friend that happened to his pinky, and it was like this all the time.

Yeah, he said eventually your finger just goes to an S shape, and at that point, it's pretty much permanent. You can't even move it. It was his pinky, and I told him, I was like, I could probably just hit that with a hammer. Straighten it back out. Just like a nail. I saw him. His name's Griff. I saw him the other day. They cut it off. Yeah. Whoa. It's gone. Because it basically dies. I was like, how's your pinky doing? And he's like, this nub. I'm like, they cut it off. Could you imagine? You can't use it anyway. Logan without his bird finger. And forevermore, that gal would remind him. That would remind you of that date. I know. How big of a man you're in. Permanent scar. Most expensive two dates I've ever been on. Exactly. All right. Hey, everybody. Jason Carter and the Epic Outdoors crew coming at you on a Friday. Bronson, it's Friday.

Not only is it Friday, we just put a publication out. It's at the printer. We're going to go live here with it shortly. We call it Frolic Fridays when it's a day like this. When a magazine's at the printer. A little bit. A little bit of breathing room. Well, you and I are frolicking. I don't know why it's still coding. I don't know. He's not frolicking so much. No, he's not. But there's plenty of that going on. But when one project ends, you just have a little breath of life in you for a day. Devin, speaking of breath of life, how are you doing? I'm good. You a little tired? I'm a little tired. Why don't you pale today? Do I? I want to ask you. What do you say? I go at home. Without going too personal, I would like to know. How are you doing? Do I look pale to you? Adam and I looked at each other and we're like, we need to do a welfare check on that. No, you don't look pale. No?

A slightly. Did your wife think you looked pale? No, Jason did. Have you not been getting enough sunshine? Is that what you mean? You're not a pasty sleep and sunshine. I don't even, yeah. I forgot what that was like. The Archibald household had a baby. Yeah. And that's kind of changed the dynamics of your entire life. It was on April Fool's, wasn't it? I'm a dad. Little girl. It's pretty awesome. It is. But it's kind of crushing. The stuff that we remember Devin a couple years ago just gave me a little different perspective on when we were teasing Wyatt about him losing sleep and stuff when his kid came along. Now you're like, okay, I was too hard on the guy. I kind of was. I was hard on him. And now your life has changed, Devin. It's going to take a little time before you think about another one.

Devin, he was one hand, hen pecking the keyboard and holding the kid in the other arm last night. Or when? No matter what I do. Yeah. Unless I'm sleeping, I'm one arm and really? Really? Oh, yeah. Geez. I've read something else. This is when dads usually become, in life, the phase that they become ambidextrous. My, for the first like four or five days, my back was sore. My arms are, I don't have those mom muscles. I did not have those problems. I think you're going to get dad of the year award. Oh, I'm good now. I can hold her for hours. I'm good. You're going to get dad of the year award. Yeah. I didn't have the woman parts to feed. And gratefully, because I need sleep. They make these things called bottles, though. Oh. When the girls find out about that, you're in trouble. Oh. Yeah. Well, if. Got to heat them up in a bowl.

You're doing the whole heat bowl on the stove, not in the microwave. No. Because the microwave will heat up the milk at certain parts of the bottle, but not evenly. Yeah, fill a bowl with hot water and put it in there and let it warm up. Although I can tell you've got to remember to. Put it on your wrist. Oh, yeah. Do the whole wrist check. You've got to remember to turn the water off, though. I learned that. Although I can tell you microwave something, I think there's other benefits of like radiating microorganisms and stuff. You might nuke some stuff. Yeah, you don't want to kill them. You want the natural, what do they call it? Non-homogenized milk or whatever it is. You know, whatever. We're getting into dairy terminology here now. Hey, Josh. Josh, what did you find on the World Wide Web down there for sale? St. George. Oh. Hotter pops. Hotter pops. Hotter pops.

Josh always finds these. Josh finds these. He sent me two or three of these. People selling breast milk on the www. Well, and I was wondering, like, what's his search engines look like over there? I don't know. I just hit him up and say, is this still available? Were they all sold? Yeah. I don't know. I never go. Wasn't it natural milk? I never commit me on to, is this still available? Natural milk that was preserved and ready to go for people like Devin. I didn't. Apparently, it was, I don't know, medication-free. I didn't dive into it. It's got to be better. She didn't have the COVID vaccine, medication-free, all the. I happened to scroll through. She had her card, her credentials, or whatever. How do you have a credential? Breast milk. They have, like, a milk bank, I think. I remember seeing a paper at the hospital. Oh, my gosh. If you needed breast milk, they have. It's true.

It's a real thing. It's a real thing. It's true. Yeah. And there's some ladies, you know, don't produce enough or early enough or whatever, and you need a few days' supply. Tap into it. Yep. It's a real thing. Moving right along. I'm not even. Moving right along. I'm not an expert. It was just on Facebook Marketplace.

Not an expert, but somehow it was the top of your feed.

No pun intended. I'm here to. Top of your feed. I'm here to simply help coworkers with their needs. That's all. Devin looked a little peaky. Always looking for a deal, even if it's another problem. Still looking for a deal. Okay. All right. Pollock, what are you working on? What do you got going on over there? Just some stuff. Stuff, yeah. All right. Pricing. Pricing stuff. What showed up yesterday? Big old shipment. I think trail cameras. Didn't really get a chance to look. I was told trail cameras. We wheeled them in there and walked out of the room. We've been slammed with this publication. You've been checking all kinds of statistics. Yep. But we got pallets. It looked like stealth cam boxes, so I need to confirm that. There were a lot of them. We did order some. There were a lot of them, and they need homes. That's all I know. Yeah. Yeah. They got it.

Well, and people are starting to ask about it. People are getting serious. Generally, you stay on top of one year. And you can always say, nothing matters until July. But when you get cranking, if you're on top of it, I don't know if it's mental or what it is, but when I put them out in the end of May, I'm just better. My stuff in July is better. I don't know how to explain it. You don't have time, honestly. Yeah. You have to start. I was thinking about it the other day. I was like, you know, really, there are some of these places, and some of it's higher elevation on a year like this. I could have that camera out already. And not because there's something they might not even be there yet to get pictures of, or it might be a nub that you get a picture of, but at least the camera's in place. And it's out and done.

And so as I have other stuff, the camera's ready and waiting to take pictures. Well, if you're like me, I don't know who you guys are, but just getting them all done, new SD cars, new batteries loaded up, and then the brand new ones, you've got to format and get them all set right, get the date, time, all that. Those are projects for 50 or 100 cameras. I like to label them internally with a number just because number 159 is in such and such water. Well, if it starts working, if it quits working, too, then when you pull your cars back, you're like, oh, that camera's janky. I've got to go find that camera. Not getting any night picks on 159. I've got to go find it and pull it. You've got to name them. So I'll name it internally and then also with a Sharpie on the external. So there's just a lot of projects.

But once you get them out early, it just feels like then you start getting them rotating. And also we had a deer out in the middle of the desert, showed up end of June, I want to say, never got him on camera the rest of the year. And you know that deer is alive. So it did do something. It did do something. I had a camera last year, a new one that I had put up that I thought was going to be a really good camera. It ended up not being. But it was actually a good early camera because there were 30 bulls a day hitting this camera in early June. And by July 1, it was non-existent. They might not. So at some point, like they were moving through there at some point. And it gave you, even though they weren't grown, it gave you a good idea because there were bulls that were recognizable. Bulls. That hit later cameras. When I go, hey, that bull was over there.

So it just gives you an idea of maybe where that bull came from. Triangulation. You're doing the triangulation method. Maybe you needed to put out some attractant to keep them there. That's true. That's true. I should have. Yeah. Anyway.

Moving right along. But yeah, no, we've got, we're going to have basically three different kinds. You know, we've narrowed it down. There's a significant amount of trail cameras out there and they all do different kinds of things. But we've narrowed it down to where we're going to be getting a GMAX 32 vision. It's called, it's got a little LCD viewing screen. It's a great camera. You know, we're talking. It's kind of the overall what we like. Yeah. For a place and run. High megapixels, high video, good range. Non-cell camera. Yeah. It's a good video, but it's not like extremely expensive, you know, like some of these 4Ks or something. Like it's an affordable, great camera you can put out. It's got good reach, good range, takes good night pictures, all that stuff. So we're going to have that one.

We're also going to have a 20 megapixel version that actually comes with some batteries and an SD card with every camera. So a little more affordable. Not as good like at night. It doesn't have as much range and stuff. But if you were putting something on a trough or some kind of a salt block, something like that, where something's coming to it, it'll take good enough pictures that if you're like, okay, I'm going to put this out into, say, a new spot. That's what I like to do with those cameras. Or I always like to keep a couple of them in my pack when I'm putting my other cameras going to a spot. Inevitably, I've come across a seep here and there. You're like, geez, I didn't know this seep existed and there's tracks there. So you throw up one of those little 20 megapixels on that. Next time on your way back through, check it and see if it's worth putting.

You can put a better camera on it, whatever. So they're just great cameras to have. We're going to have those. Like I said, they're going to come with, it's a package deal with an SD card and batteries. And then we've gone to the Deceptor No-Glow cellular camera. And cool thing about those, same kind of thing, like high megapixel, great video, all that great range. So a lot like that, G-Max, actually just slightly better for quality in some of that regard. But it is a cellular camera. The cool thing about that is last year they did an AT&T and Verizon card. And they have a dual SIM card. So now you can just throw it up. And they seem to actually get better service because it's kind of searching for both. Before where you had to either get AT&T or Verizon. Sometimes you'd go to a spot and you didn't know which one. So you're packing two cameras. Sometimes I put the wrong one up.

Thinking, because when you go to turn it on, you don't really know. When you go to turn it on, you're looking at it. Oh, this seems like you get better service than the other one. You put it up and it doesn't, whatever. So I actually seem to, they work better. But great camera. We're basically going to have those three. And it's going to be, we ordered a pile of them. But at the same time, we sell out of them. You know, I had guys call in the last little bit. Like that's our plan with a lot of the trail camera regulations and all that kind of stuff. What we've switched to the last few years is we do a big heavy order this time of year so that guys can get them in their hands, get them out on the ground now. And then we don't. Don't reorder that much. No, we don't. We don't. We would have to be really early to reorder. Yeah. Because come July 31st, there's zero demand here. Yeah.

Well, and with the technology changes, you can't carry stuff for two, three years. Yeah. I mean, that changes so fast. Plus then when it changes and they discontinue your model, then the whole internet's got blowouts everywhere. And so you get what's good and new that year, get rid of it. Next year, you get what's new and good and functional for that year, get rid of them, move on. So, yeah, they will sell out. We got some boxes, too, if you need those. Yeah. Anyway. And they did come out. SelfCam did come out with a few new cameras this year, stuff. We're probably going to get a few of those to test out. The problem there, again, is by the time they come out here in about two months, they'll come out. Yeah. And in the season, choke out the season. Because they're great. They're great. Yes. Yes, exactly. Because they can use them clear in November, December.

So they don't really release these cameras. They'll release them, but you can't get them in stock until June, end of June. And by that time, we're about done. So we don't generally get those. But they do have some cool features. They got some lithium batteries. It's a rechargeable lithium battery that you can throw in there instead of taking batteries if you want all the time. Anyway, some other things like that that are cool. We're not going to grab any of those this year, possibly next year, whatever. But, yeah, we're going to have those. We'll be getting those on the website and have those available here in the next week. You'll see that. We'll kick out some social media stuff about them as well just so you'll keep an eye when those are ready. But, yeah. Pretty awesome. Yeah, and if you want something different, you can go out there and you can order them.

Go to StealthCan's website, whatever. Or, you know, we could possibly order them, too, if we had enough demand. I know guys were talking about that with the revolver. Yeah. Somebody found your revolver, right? He did, yeah. But, overall, what did you guys think of that camera? It was a more expensive camera. Yeah, it's a more expensive camera, so you weren't going to have, like, 50 of them or something. It was very situational. It wasn't a simple set-it-and-forget-it kind of camera. They did take a little more work to get used to. Also, you know, it's got 360 degrees, and you're always kind of combat. It's got a movement. It's got like this. Yeah, so it'll move one. It almost needs a grease zerk in there. There's so many moving parts. It was awesome for the fact that I put it on a meadow that was, like, say, 300 yards across,

and then it was, I don't know, 800 yards up and down from the camera in the meadow. And, like, I just put it up so animals were walking by, and it was pretty cool to see you'd get a bull or something across in front of you, and there were actually 10 bulls up the meadow that you could see them out of the peripheral of that camera. You would never have known. Quasi-plot watcher type thing. Yes, so you'd think, oh, that's a lone bull or whatever, but when it triggers that, it actually takes it in every zone that you have set up, and so you got everything around you, and it was pretty crazy. A panoramic of 30 bulls. Yeah, security stuff. It was kind of funny. You saw guys trying to, like, sneak up on it from behind, you know. Ooh, hey, I like that. They didn't mess with it or anything, but they're just trying to sneak up from the side. You get phenomenally good pictures of them.

Yeah, so that was good, but the problem I had with them, honestly, was setting them up. Anytime you have trail cameras, I always set them up trying to face north and south so you don't get that harsh east-west sunlight coming in because that's usually when the animals are there, and half the time you're like, I don't get to the sun. It's getting triggered. It's going to hit it, yeah, so you have to either turn that zone off or try and figure that out. So there's some of those things that it's a little bit trickier camera. It's not perfect, but a unique. Yeah, it was a cool camera. For sure. All right. Well, that's a great update, and I appreciate that. Of course, we've got tripods in and all kinds of stuff going on here at Epic Outdoors, and we'll be continuing to come out with some of those promo items and things like that. So go to epicoutdoors.com, and we've got a store page on there.

You can go check them all out, and we'll go from there. And like Josh said, we'll have the updated cameras on our web as well. So, Bronson, I want to move to the Copper State, the Copper State tags. It's in, y'all, we've all said it, did it really happen? I actually had a guy reach out. I had a missed call, and I tried to call it back, and it rang forever. From a six, like an hour before we got that email. Like a 602 or a 520. It was a 308. Might have been like Jamaica or something. Oh, okay. That's not even worth bringing it up. But I'm just saying, if they don't. Devin, Bronson, let me just ask you. Like, how many calls do you get from marketers in a day? I don't get that many at all. A lot. Like, a lot. Devin, you just missed the Copper State tag. That's what I thought. Ow. They didn't leave a voicemail, but I've been notified.

Then there was a Nigerian prince calling to let you know that you just missed out on this Copper State tag. I'll just say, I had this missed call, and then I got the email right then. For a $115 tag fee, we'll send it to you.

Why are the money? I'll be in the brown sweater. Don't give these people ideas. Can you imagine? Yeah. Well, apparently somebody's heard us joking for years, the last couple years at least. We know people, when these first limited entries came out four or five years ago, we knew. Hobbs had some stories. Great bucks killed in their butt. The last couple, it feels like this has been a cloak and dagger scenario. There's not even a first initial, last name, or two initials. We've offered significant prizes. We offered a muzzleloader last year to anybody that just called in and proved that they had a tag. Remember? And we didn't get a call. And we didn't offer anybody anything. Not this night. And then we had a guy call in or hit me up on the ground. So anyway, yeah, we had a buddy, Matthew Fife. Anyway, he reached out and said, hey, my buddy freaking drew a tag.

And would you be interested in, you know, visiting with him or whatever? Yeah, absolutely. Anyway, so here we are. We're going to call this guy. I've never talked to him. I don't know him necessarily. He could tell us how he was notified. Yeah, like all of those kind of things. And so. Was it a 308 number that called you or what? Let's ask him. Let's ask him. You never know. Because Devin probably missed out on something special. You think I'm pale now. If that was the case, I'd be livid. Just get ready. Just answer your phone. You'll be in your find. Don't screen your calls, Devin. Don't do that. All right. So here we go. Let's call him up. Taylor. Don't want to use his last name. Just in case he doesn't want it out there. We're sounding like Arizona now. Just kind of cryptic. Taylor A. Period. Period. Period.

Hello. Hey. Is this Taylor? Yeah, sure is. Taylor. Hey. Jason Carter and the Epic Outdoors crew here. How are you? Hey. I'm doing good, Jason. How are you doing? Not as good as you, I don't think. But we were just. Yeah. It'd be hard to be on this level. We need a little proof, though. Yeah. We were teasing. Go ahead, Bronson. Yeah. We were teasing a lot about these Copper State tags. We've been teasing for a couple years about these draws. They don't post even the initials of a winner or the city that they're from or anything somewhere. Just wondering if this is a good money-making deal for them and they didn't have to produce tags. But apparently, you want to kind of hear how this actually happened. Devin thinks he missed a call the other day that probably was a Copper State draw. It came from the, it was a number from the Philippines or something. A 308 number. But, yeah.

So, just like everyone else, I get all kinds of scam calls, like, every day. Yeah. And I was at work and I'm driving to my next job and I get the calls coming through my radio on my truck, you know. And it's an unknown number, but I noticed that it had a 602 area code, which is Phoenix. There you go, Devin. It wasn't. Devin, you didn't get a tag. All right. Keep going. I've accepted it. Keep going, Taylor. So, I let it ring a few times. I'm like, you know what? I'll just answer it since it had the local area code. And where I was at, I had kind of crappy service, man. So, there was like a weird screeching sound in the background and it was breaking up a little bit. But the lady says, is this Taylor? I'm like, yeah. She's like, well, I'm calling to let you know that you won the Copper State draw. And, of course, my jaw hit the floor. I'm like, I couldn't believe it.

To be honest, I thought it was a scam for, like, the whole phone call. Even once I got off the phone with her, she told me she was having trouble with getting her secure line to work to take my payment. Oh, wow. So, she would have someone else call me back at noon and I'm like, okay. Sir, I need your bank account and your routing number. And your social security number, please. Wow. But what's funny is she kind of went into detail about how it wouldn't affect my points for the regular draw and all this stuff. So, after I hung up, I'm like, man, if that was a scam, she really did her homework. She knew her stuff. Yeah. Right. Yeah, there's no bag limit issues or nothing. Right. Yep. She went over all that. And she sent me an email regarding all that stuff, too. And what's real funny, man, is she accidentally left the other guy's name that she talked to right before me on the email.

So, then you thought it was a scam. So, you know another guy that drew. Right. Okay. You need to forward that. So, it's just his first name. But she told me in the phone call, hey, I just realized I accidentally sent the wrong name in that last email. Just disregard that. So, I'm like, this is so fishy, man. I want to talk to the director. Right. I probably shouldn't have said that. Now, they're going to be like, hey, you're in trouble. Did you pay for the tag yet? Yeah. So, the lady was supposed to call me back at noon that day. Well, noon went by. Of course, I'm watching the clock like it's – like, I'm watching it. Noon went by about 1.30. I'm like, I better call these people because it says in the email that I have until 10, 15 a.m. the next day to pay for my tag. Wow. I know how I can – What if you were out of service? I don't know. You're fishing in Alaska? 24 hours is all? Yeah.

Exactly right. I guess if I didn't pay for it by 10, 15 the next day, it was going to go to the next person. It clearly says that in the email. So, luckily, I was here in town. And, like I said, I was getting antsy. So, I just called the Game and Fish office. And I got a guy on the line. And I'm like, hey, let me make sure. Is this lady with you guys? And he's like, oh, yeah, that's the lady that was supposed to call you. I'm like, well, thank God.

So, you got it taken care of, though, right there. Yes, sir. So, right then, he was – apparently, they have, like, a chat system within there, within AZ Game and Fish. And he was typing – I could hear him typing on his computer, chatting with her. And then, the other lady called me right after I got off the phone with him and said that I was the last one that they were getting payment from. And she did tell me that one guy – so, they have to ask you if you want the tag. I'm like, why would someone not want the tag? You only put in for it, like, three days ago. She probably had a guy turn it down. So, the guy, a guy – one of the guys, everyone had already paid except me and this other guy. And he was going to call him back the next day because she said it was an older guy. And he was unsure about it. And I'm like, man, that's crazy. He'd been scanned by something like this in the past.

Well, his 401K is half of what it should be. Right. So, she did tell me how, like, they try to be very open about how this tag is basically just 100% a fundraiser for AZ Game and Fish. And it helps them to prevent from having to raise tag prices and hunting license prices all the way across the board that doing it with this Copper State draw, it's a voluntary basis, you know. Yeah. And, I mean, it's just like winning the lottery, obviously. I mean, I couldn't believe it. And I got probably one of the most desirable tags of all of them. You got the elk, right? Yeah. Do you remember what units you got the cluster? He's got them memorized, brother. Yeah. So, there's two different elk tags. And to be honest, when I put in for them, I thought I would want the other tag more. But because I know a little bit more about those other units.

I actually had an elk tag in one of these units that I drew a few years ago. And during the rut hunt, there was just a lot of hunters. And I was inexperienced. It was my first elk tag here in Arizona. And I didn't really have too much fun, to be honest. But it's a conglomerate of units from, it's like unit 5, 6, 7, 8, 15, 6, 17, 18, 19, 28. Yep. So, it's all those. Yep. You might spend some time in 15 or 8. I don't know. Have you got a plan? 5, 6, 7, 19, 20, 20? So, man, I know a ton of people in the archery and the hunting community. I'm pretty active in, like, target archery out here. And I work, or I shoot with a bunch of guys that are, I mean, some of the biggest guides in the state that have taken several auction tags. And one of my best friends is the manager over at Arizona Archery Club. And so, I know a lot of people that have a, can pull a lot of strings in the industry.

And I've had several different people reaching out to me, telling me where I should start, that they have experience in these areas. They're more than happy to point me in the right direction or even take me with them. I've even had a guide reach out to me and say, hey, I'd be willing to help you free of charge. I want to help you kill a giant. Just because a friend of mine is friends with him and told him that I'm as gung-ho as it comes when it comes to archery hunting. And he, this guide that called me was like, he's like, I would love to have a real killer out here to put down a giant bull. Well, and you're, sounds like you're going to self-impose, you're going to hunt with a bow, even though you can shoot anything you want. You're a bow hunter. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. I've never, I've, I've never taken any big game animals with a rifle. Isn't the season dates like August 1st?

August 15th. August 15th? To October 15th. Wow. Yeah, it's pretty crazy, man. Yeah, this is an opportunity for some of these guides to kill a governor-type bull in one of these units that aren't necessarily known for it, but they would, you know, like to have that opportunity or something like that, you know, just. Might be hunting them on water where they've been summering all year and kill one on water. So actually, the guide I've been talking to, he was telling me that like three years ago they killed a 430 in one of these units. On the governor's or the commissioner's tag, one of those. Wow. And last year, he said he was watching two bulls that are just absolute giants, he said. A few of the spots he's thinking about really pounding, he said it really depends on the moisture at that exact time of year, he said.

But because the bulls come into this area because there's water there, but if it rains like the same week that my hunt starts, well, then we'll kind of be up a creek from that area. Yeah. Right. Well, man, this is awesome. Well, you're living, you sound living and breathing. I don't think you're an AI-generated person, so congratulations. Right. You're making a believer out of us, finally. Yeah, we're excited for you. That's awesome. On the end of these calls. We'd like maybe a story from you when you get done. It'd be awesome. Yeah, dude. Hopefully, I have an awesome story to tell. Man, I'm jealous. Yeah, I'm so lucky, man. I almost didn't buy the tap or put in for the Copper State draw, too. It was like the second to last day before they closed it, and I got an email saying it's about to close.

I'm like, I've done it every year in the past, but lately I've been putting in as hard as I can on all the raffles. I went to the Elk Society banquet and spent like $300 on raffle tickets, didn't win nothing. I've been buying the raffles for the Arizona Deer Association, haven't won nothing. So I went and looked at the – I just clicked on the link for the Copper State draw and was looking at the tags. I'm like, oh, man, I'd really like to have that tag and this one and this one. And I didn't even do the antelope or one of the deer tags, but I put in for four of the six, and I got drawn for probably arguably the best one. Yeah, pretty awesome. It is. Well, pretty awesome. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. I – it'd be nice if I could call my boss and just have like three months off work.

Well, if you guys have a baby or something, you could. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Can't say no to that. No. Oh, well. I mean, my boss is my brother-in-law, and I'm sure he would – he would work with me on anything I wanted to do. It just be – wouldn't be easy for him. Yeah. And I'm sure you'll get in a time. I'm going to get a lot of time off for sure. And I got from August until October. So I feel like that's plenty of time to – with the help that everyone's going to be giving me and stuff, I think I'm going to be all right. Yeah. I think you're going to do great. We're excited for you. I hope you kill an absolute monster. Dude. It's awesome. Thanks for instilling a little belief in the system for us all. Hey, you know what? There is a lot of talk about – I've never known personally anybody that drew this tag and – Kind of where I'm going. Yeah. It's – Neither have we. It's pretty crazy.

I couldn't believe it. I even – we have a group chat with several of my buddies that shoot archery with me and hunt and stuff. And I just – first people I texted in that group, I said, boys, I drew the Copper State draw. And they all are just saying, bull crap. Bull crap. Send me a picture. It didn't happen. I'm like, I swear, dude. Well. Pretty unbelievable. If you hear of any other Copper State draw tags, let us know. You've got my number. Now that you're out there. And we haven't disclosed any of your identity or anything like that. Like some guys just want to go hunt in peace and whatnot. But anyway, we're excited for you. Right on. Hey, I appreciate it. I don't think anyone's mad at me for drawing it. But everyone wishes they had this opportunity, man. Right? Jealous. Jealous, but we're actually just about a little bit of belief in a system that we thought was –

we knew it was to raise money. But you can raise money and not give tags either. It's slightly janky. It's slightly janky. You go onto their website. You don't go into your portal. You've got to go type in your address as if you're a non-resident alien that's never applied in Arizona before. Well, and you can't – oh, I forgot to apply for this. I'm going to go back. No, you had your one chance to apply for the tags. One and done. Right. You can't go back in and add. Add a deer or a coos. Right. It's just kind of a different deal. Yeah, I don't know. Like a couple months ago, they did a different – it was some type of draw. I want to say it was like on the Hopi reservation or something like that. Something for some special tags. And I click on the link for it, and it takes me to the website. And the thumbnail picture or the main page of the website, it was a picture of a red stag. Yeah.

I'm like, what the hell? These people don't even know what an elk is. I've heard those are taking over in Arizona. I don't know where they came from. Especially the Hopi. Yeah. But they are taking over, and they're rooting the elk out. They're hybrids. If you get a red stag and an elk hybrid down there, that's a rare deal. It is. That'd be something else. Yeah. So, all right. Okay. Well, sounds good. We'll let you get back at it. Appreciate you taking some time. It's pretty fun. We're excited. Anyway, it's fun to have you on the podcast. Yes, sir. Maybe we'll have you back on after you slam that giant. Sounds good, man. I'll be more than happy to tell you this story. Good luck. Good luck, Taylor. Talk to you later. Thank you. You bet. Thanks. Bye. There you have it. It happens. It happens. Devin, it was not you. It wasn't me. Darn. You can call that number back.

We might have got it in the sweepstakes winner. I did.

I told you, Rick, 26 times, and I just hung up. I gave up. You're on their list forever now. Look for a 602 number. Yes. Awesome. Good for him. What else? Speaking of drawn tags, how did everybody fare this week? Wah, wah, wah. Some better than others. Well, I would say one. I would say one. One better than others. Let's just say that Devin's going to put his fierce rifle to use. Yeah. I got a rifle tag. Yeah. You got a rifle tag, and you also probably put your Hoyt to use. Maybe so. Wow. Geez. Geez, Devin. Share some with the rest of us. Geez. Well, any elaboration? Do you want to just – We'll turn this over to you. Oryx? I can't read his face. Are we going to go ahead and disclose? Yeah. What species? You're going to pressure me into it anyway. Well, it's going to come out. It's fine. If you weren't here, we would have covered it already. Yeah. That's why I'm here. No.

No, I got off-range oryx. I'm super excited. Yeah. That's cool. It was a third choice. I mean, I even went in for the broken horn, three-legged cow tag. Yeah. Did you? Yeah. Cow-calf? No. He's heard about that meat. I have. Well, that horse meat's amazing. I don't know. Adam? You don't see me talking about it because it's pretty good. It hasn't offered us any. Yeah. Remember that? Yeah. He's making it seem like it's not a thing. I said, I'd take it. I'm going to have a baby. I'm going to need extra protein. Bronson didn't even say anything. I would have took a front shoulder. Oh, you would have taken a hawk or anything.

I don't. I made ham and beans out of the hawks. Really? I just soaked the beans for 48 hours. Bone marrow broth. Yeah. I was talking to Wyatt yesterday. Horsehead beans. Yesterday. And I don't know what it is, but New Mexico, and same with him. He was like, I don't know why it is, but New Mexico is like one of the most exciting draw results there is to open. And I strictly think it's because of the whole color thing. The green. I love the green. I don't know why. I wish all other states would go. How about Colorado came out with the unsuccessful? Yeah. It's fairly legible. It's like accepted. It says accepted. Well, my email said unsuccessful. Yeah. But it was tiny. It's tiny. Log in. Unsuccessful is red. I had a guy send me his picture of his sheep draws. It's gray. And it says accepted. He says, what does this mean? I says, it means you're going sheep.

I want to see balloons like happy birthday. I want to see balloons and stars. I mean, red is unsuccessful. What should accepted be? Well, and then with Mexico, you also, you see green, and then you've got to figure out what choice it is. And then, unless you have the code memorized, you've got some scrambling. We don't. It's hard to scramble the regs out. It's going off the side of the highway. Yeah. When you've got a female immature or something like that, you're not getting a refund. There's no option. You've never heard of in your life. I wish all other states would go to just a green light. You're going. It's pretty awesome. Because, yeah, you're trying to. Even on those Colorado. Nevada does like a teal or yellow and teal or something like that. It's teal, greenish. It's like they've got to have their own. Yellow is unsuccessful, isn't it? Or is that successful?

It's based off the programmer. What's the yellow? The mood that he's in. It highlights the unit you have. Could you imagine John doing the color coding for an epic winter? It just depends on the day. Let's turn him loose. He has a good time with AI, doesn't he, Josh? He does. A graphic designer with AI. No, I'm with, yeah, the Colorado. I had to, like, I don't even know where to look. You're, like, scrolling because it's just an immediate thing. You know, you're trying to see un or successful as fast as you can. And big. And big. Bold. And it's, like, size 10 font italicized, like, unsuccessful. Find it in the middle of the paragraph. Yeah, exactly. Or how about when you read an email and it cuts off, it breaks unsuccessful up into two words? That's not cool. So there's the guy that sent me, you know, that and he wondered what that meant. Gray. Dull gray. Dull gray. Gunmetal gray.

Accepted. It looks like it's just there, like it hasn't been looked at yet. And right below it, you would think it's not awarded. Okay, they got an application. It says not awarded in red for mountain goat. And the gray accepted. He didn't know what it meant. There's just no enthusiasm with it. No. Like, hey, we're going to give you a sheep tag. Yeah, how about that? So thanks, New Mexico, for making our day. It is. It's fun. And it's quick and easy. You just see red, you X out so fast, and you go back to work. Yes, exactly. Right? That's all you need to worry about. Go back to checking all the other clients. X out, I'm done, cash, and I'm moving on to, you know. It is a dang good feeling to see some green, I will say. Yeah. Must be nice. We did see. How about last year? We killed it with the tags. This year, you killed it. It was the only one. No offense, Logan.

I don't think you had one. But, like, I think Wyatt and Logan. How about that? I didn't put in for New Mexico. We can't talk about Wyatt because we told him we wouldn't. But he didn't get a single draw tag in the Mexico last year. He who remains to be unnamed. Last year. This year, there's only one of us. But that just, it is fun. Talk about us. Yeah. I could go wait five years and not see green again. You just never know. No, you never know. It's fun, though. You know, we go and check a bunch of all our license application guys stuff for them. And it's pretty dang fun to just continue to sit and look. We had some. I remember a couple of those I checked. There were significant. There was more green than red. It was like four out of five were green. Yes. Mind-blowing. That one took a half hour to decipher. Yeah, it did. Yeah. There's some codes here.

And then I had to prove on, you know, prove up on some text and stuff. Like, there's just, really? What's that? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. You put me in for that, James. Okay. I'm just the answer guy. Like, I received a text from you. It's fun. Pretty fun. Yeah. But, anyway, speaking of gunmetal boring gray, let's talk about Fierce that's not so boring. There's a segue. All right. Yeah. So, anyway, I want to appreciate, throw a little shout-out to Fierce Firearms Long Range Shooting School on the back cover right here on April, $19.95 per person. Anyway, Devin, they make some incredible firearms. You know them intimately inside and out. Helped them back in the day quite a bit. Actually worked for them quite some time. Great people. Great products. We're killing stuff at Long Range left and right. Got multiple guns of theirs. I don't know why I can't say no. We just don't.

Bronson, have you ever said no to a Fierce Firearm? There's rarely one that comes in the office that's not getting worked over by Devin, Adam, and 14 others that are wanting to tap it on the butt and making sure that everything's tight and good. We like to look at them. Yeah. My wife listens to the podcast and my answer to yours is I don't recall. I do not recall. Janet edits them. I dare you to pick up a gun and not run the bolt. It's just what you just have to do. At least just once. Exactly. You just have to. And shoulder. Biggest green. Shoulder and dry fire at once. I mean, you've got to do it. We've been getting them in for clients that have been ordering them. It feels like we've shipped out one or two a week for the last little bit. So we get them in, look them over, ship them out. Where do they do the shooting school? What ranch do they do? That's Mogul Fierce Ranch. Oh, okay.

Mogul Fierce. Looks like they've got a long range shooting school coming up. Day, two day class. The first day is your classroom and a little bit of range. And then day two, you burn some powder. Yeah. Good. And put it. Didn't they, when we were up there last, don't they have like this giant Sasquatch at like a thousand yards or something? Yeah, they got metal gongs. Big steel Sasquatch up there on the hill in my alley. I love the sound of steel on a crisp morning. I do too. At a thousand. It's about what, three or four seconds after you touch one off. Especially when like they're set up. You walk in the back room, shut the door, flip the light on. It's nice. You shoot from a back window and bring some gongs. Out of the wind. Yeah. No sun in your eyes. But that's not. Eat a peak donut and chill out, huh? Burn some powder. Yeah, it's pretty awesome. Yeah.

Anyway, anybody that's interested, call them at 435-462-0040 or www.fiercefirearms.com. Yeah. They'll have a couple of different gates, I'm sure.

All right. Okay. Where are we going to? What are we going to? Q&A maybe? I don't know. What are we going to finish off? We also, what have we been doing? Let's see. We crushed a magazine. We've also looked up some draw results. And then we've got a lot coming up, too. A whole lot. There's just a stack right now. It comes at you fast this time of year. April is unbelievable. We've had Montana, New Mexico, Colorado. Yeah. We've got Utah due on the 24th. Kansas, 25th. Wyoming, sheep, goat, moose, bison on the 30th. Idaho, sheep, goat, moose on the 30th as well of April. So, and then Montana, sheep, goat, moose, bison on May 1. Nevada, May 7. We'll be talking to them. Excited to visit with them. Everything they've got going. Dude, we freaking froze last night. Had frost on our windshield. I had to. So, I turned my water in. Trying to be the, you know, husband of the year. Irrigation.

You turned your water on? Yeah. Into the system. Okay. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And it takes a 14-foot key. Like a week ago, and it was 70-something degrees. It's got a big bow in the pipe. Settling. Well, I was a kid. The Great Floods of 2023. I've heard about this. When we built the house, I used pipe that wasn't PVC. It was like corrugated.

Corrugated plastic. It's in a C shape. Yeah, it is. It's a little bit of a C shape. You mean like the gutter tube? You mean like the black gutter tube? Yes, it is. What? Yes. Turn your water. It was like, and it's super tall, and I'm like, oh, yeah, this will be fine. They're like, ah, this will be fine. A couple earthquakes and floods after. And it's, uh. 14 earthquakes later. And a flood. And I've got, anyway, I've got this. It is. I can see the ear of that stop and waste or whatever it is. Barely. Yeah. About that much. I grabbed the ear of it. Turned it in. I'm like, hey, if I can do that two times a year for the rest of my life, we're good. Anyway. Got it turned in. Everything was great. Growing up the lawn. I'm dad of the year. Husband of the year. There's a storm at 23, 24 degrees for two mornings in a row. Tomorrow, it's scheduled for 24.

I'm like, there's so much above ground piping and stuff. You're just like, yeah, I've got to narrow it out. So, blew it out last night. In the rain? In the sleet? In the rain, man. Oh. I mean, when you're a man, you're a man. It's easier to do that. You've got to do man stuff. Easier to do that, though. Right, Logan? Find leaks. When you're a man, you're a man. I know that well. And I'm the last one here, probably. Wow. Wow. Weren't we just saying before this that you're a guppy? A guppy piranha? Well, right before that, you claimed to be a betta fish, so I'll take guppy piranha. No, you told me I was a betta fish. Oh, now we've got Bronson. We've got two Gen Zs fighting. A couple rag horns locked up. I'm not a Gen Z. He's claiming he's a millennial and depends on which AI search you do. He's on the verge of millennial or Gen Z. He's making that distinction. And I am not a guppy.

I am not a guppy. Not a guppy. It's like when you've seen my yard, not a guppy. I'm impressed. You can run heavy machinery. Logan, have you ever run heavy machinery? Once or twice.

Okay. I did it once or twice before I was eight. I believe that. I do believe that. Gash grew up on a farm. I can't beat. Hard to beat that. I can't beat Cash's skid skills. I'll give him that. No. He's too good. I can do it. I can run it. He did. It was interesting, Cash. I did smash a fence. I was just wondering how my skid's doing. When you got it back? Yeah. Well, I was like, you know, what could he do? Well, he's going to take out his house. He, you know. The skid's still stronger than that. And if you do put it on its side, I mean, I don't know. Might have to deal with some oil. I don't know. You know what I mean? The skid's still more fluids that go into different reservoirs that aren't special. Cash's like, I did take out my back fence. And I'm like, really? Yeah, but it was a blessing. Yeah, it turned out that he was being watched over. Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah.

So I backed into the fence and just bumped it. And it's just plastic white fence. It just popped the pieces out. Yeah. But like, this is not cheap fence. So we just pulled it all together, pulled it all out, then pulled the trailer around. It was way more convenient than the truck. He actually started using the big hole. Using the big hole. Gaping hole. Driving through the neighbor's yard into your yard, you mean? No, just in the back. The back is like... It's just a big field. It is a neighbor. Somebody owns that. It will be. There will be a house there eventually. It is deeded ground. It is deeded ground. Yeah. And he's back there just owning it. Anyway, and then put it back together, you couldn't even tell. Couldn't even tell. No. Not even a scratch. Grab some topsoil while you're back there, bring it in. No, he actually brought in some...

I brought in some road base and some chat and stuff. Anyway, so... For gravel? Yeah, I had to get rid of it. It was like four-inch crush rock all in the back. Had to remove all that, and it was way deeper than I thought. And then had to bring in... What did I bring in? Seven Ton or something of road base? That's man stuff. Well, that is man stuff because he's doing it on a house he owns. Logan, how are you doing on your yard? The house right across the street from him is up for rent. I almost sent him a screenshot of it. I think that would be his worst nightmare. Logan, me and my roommates moving in a garage as you guys. I mean, you guys are already within blocks of each other. I'd get one of those airsoft guns, and I'd post up in my front window, and I'd just plunk him right as soon as he walked out of the door. Logan makes his bed and thinks it's a win for the day. Oh, yeah.

I made my bed today. Logan, do you even make your bed? No. I knew it. I'm too busy doing man stuff to do that. When he says man stuff, could you guys remember? Like when you were hunting elk, and all the bulls are over here fighting, and cows are all around, and there's like two spikes over the side, just like eating every now and then and kind of nudging each other. That's the kind of man. Somebody's got to keep watch over the herd. Yeah. You've got the sheep, and you've got the wolves, and then you've got the sheep dogs. Who saved you on your tires when you had some janky tire issues? A man. I would have found it eventually. Grandpa Jason. Papa Jason, yeah. I threw out his back, having to change tires for me. Yeah. I mean, I went out there, and there was two off-colored lug nuts, and I may or may not have offended someone when I said that's janky. He did not like that.

Dude, I thought they were quite nice. I was like, oh, sorry. Oh, so funny. So funny. Cash, have you ever had trouble putting on tires? No. Logan, have you ever had trouble putting on tires? Have you ever seen those stupid plastic rings before? I've never seen them in my life. A little spacer. Well, and they were on wrong somehow. They were. That was my fault because I didn't know what it was. Remove the spacer, and are you happier? I'm way happier. So how do we find that out, though? Let's hear that. Well, we took it off. Driving and it was just wobbling? Who's we? Oh. Who's we? Oh, yeah. It was wobbling. I took a video of it, and everyone's like, you got scammed. He sent you a bent rim. And I'm like, it's in perfect condition. I could see if it was mashed or something. So he comes, he asks who for rent? Cash. Me. The man with the truck. The man. That's right.

And then I'm like, okay, you're not a man if you don't have a truck here at the office. Let's go get your truck. We thought that it was the scam of the century. Like, this guy not only came, brought his truck to Logan to put the tires from Logan's truck onto his truck and then just drive off. They did a swap. The guy was out there with his hands in his pockets watching Logan. And Logan's moving tires from one truck to the other. The guy just gets in and drives off. Really? Did he help you at all? He got his tires off. And then one of them is possibly bent. I'm like, that was the scam of the century. He would have done it good if it would have been a scam. Where did you meet him? Like, in public place? Right here. That's what happens when you call back a 308 number right there. The Nigerian prince shows up to get new tires put on his truck.

You know what? They ride real nice now. He did ask to borrow my floor jack. Yeah. Well, I texted him a few days before it happened. And I'm like, I'm going to try and do this with the handyman jack. And he said, no, no, no. I was just kidding. And he thought I was going to be crushed under a truck. Well, you would. A Logie Bear with a handyman. I wasn't going to do it with a handyman. It's what you call a joke. We were worried about the handyman going through a fender. Not you under it. I've done that, too. That was the least of our worries. All right. Moving right along. And I just want to say one last thing. If you live in western Nebraska, I'm sorry. That's where 308 is. I'm sorry. But, hey, we're just making fun of you today. Looked it up. It's because you called Devin. I have never been the question reader guy. But should I be that today? Yes, I think you should.

And there's some that we've covered, some that we haven't. If you can't read. Oh, yeah. There was a guy that asked right here how to pick a good guy. And I thought that would be good for Devin. Okay. We could start off with that. And how do we vet? How do we vet here? How do we vet out a good outfitter guy? Good question. Obviously, we do that here. You could call here. And we're not going to send you on some janky expedition. But do you just go to chat GBT, Devin, and call it a day? What do you do? No, I. Just Google? Most of the guys. I mean, the hunting world's a pretty small world. Most of the guys we hear about are from clients that have hunted with them. And we, yeah, we talk to them. We get references. I mean, it's a long-term process, I feel like, with outfitters. You know, it's not. Yeah. It's relationship-based. Exactly. Yep. There's trust.

There's a lot of trust when we're sending people to outfitters. And you have to portray that. You have to explain that to people, you know, how long you've worked with these guys or their operation because they don't know who they are. Right. You know, so picking a good outfitter, yeah, it's important. And, I mean, geez, we've given out so many this week. It's just been crazy. It's fun. It is fun. Yeah. Yeah, it's fun. But for people individually, like, having a conversation goes a long ways. If you're just emailing or things like that, it's good. It's good to talk on the phone. I really believe that's the best first step. And I think there's some guys that jive with an outfitter better than another. So it could be a reputable outfitter, but maybe he's all business. Like, we have outfitters that are really good businessmen. And some guys like that.

And then there's some guys that aren't great businessmen, but they're just super personable. They're fun in the field. Maybe slightly disorganized, but it adds to the whole experience. Oh, it's important. You know what I mean? It's important. Yeah. And maybe, you know, they're great glassers, and they've got a great knack for finding game. Nobody wants to help somebody who just sits there and doesn't talk for five days. You know what I mean? But that guy that doesn't talk may be a great businessman and may know exactly what he's doing. He's just a different personality. Yeah. Right? I think it's great, too, is like we don't just, you know, say you draw a tag, whether you license application, a member, or whatever, somebody we're helping with. We don't just say, like, hey, number so-and-so-and-so-and-so, we're going to put you with them. You know?

You know, Devin's really big on he wants that guy to call and talk to that outfitter because we want you to be able to help decide, does this sound right for me? You know? And I think that's important, too, to be able to actually talk to that outfitter yourself and learn some things about them and to decide. And we can generally give you a couple different options, and Devin does a great job with that, helping guys out, giving them several options, and then letting them choose. You know, we're not just saying, hey, we're booking you with this guy, and you're going. Have a good day. You know? Or I'll tell you about your outfitter here in a month or two. Go ahead and send him to the pocket. Yeah, and there's some situations you tell a guy, like, look, you know, this particular outfitter, this is his baby. This unit is he wants you to call him, I promise. And this is why. You know?

He cannot wait to talk to you. Exactly. You are the guy he's been waiting to talk to you. And New Mexico comes to mind because that just came out, and there's, you know, you can get permits everywhere. But each outfitter has their own baby unit, like their place. Well, especially in states like Colorado, Idaho, Montana on force permits. Like, there's not like, hey, there's five awesome deer outfitters that crush the whole state, like, you know, maybe other states are. Yeah. And I think another thing is for people is be patient. You know, the time of year when these results come out, if a guy doesn't call you back in five minutes, I mean, it's a busy time of year for these outfitters. So be a little patient, but don't let that ruin your first impression just right off the bat. I mean, it happens, but it's busy for them, too. They take a lot of calls this time of year.

I did have a guy call about, oh, and about a guy draw. And so with the guy draw, like, you're locked. You know, if you're going to go hunting, you're going to go with that guy. And you can't go without going guided and all of those things. And so, you know, I think sometimes the outfitters are a little bit lax on, I'll get with him. Like, I've got him top of mind. We're good, you know. But the clients are like, man, I haven't heard from this guy in six and a half days, you know, or whatever. And they're nervous, right? Like, everybody wants to know, like, hey, I drew this tag and I've got this excitement. And they kind of want to hear from the outfitter. The outfitter's excited for me, too. He's excited. Like, we'll be, this is going to be awesome. And so anyway, there's got to be, and I'm like, don't worry. He's a great outfitter. Like, he will be in contact with you.

In fact, I'll help that along. And so, anyway, there's a little give and take. Just be slightly patient, like you said. Yep. And like I said, I think communication is key to most of those things. And phone calls are definitely the best way to check all the boxes that you're looking for in the hunt, really. It really is. There's some clients that are really, really, really particular on what they eat and what they drink. And when they, you know, if you can be the client that's a little, that rolls with the punches a little bit and just goes with, this is the outfitter's program. Just roll with him a little bit. There might be something. I'm not saying if you're allergic to peanuts to eat peanuts. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying. Eat the peanut. Eat the peanut. That's what you got. Who doesn't eat peanut butter? You know. And so, I'm not saying that. But just roll with it.

I mean, just have a good time. Yeah. Well, this is, I've got a question along these lines that somebody sent in. Timmy underscore Peterson with a Z. Good question to ask an outfitter when vetting them for a hunt. You know, and this says specifically years in advance. But let's just talk about that, Devin. Because, yeah, it does, there are many cases that you give an outfitter, we all give outfitters out here. There may be two or three or four or five. Sometimes they're really good for the unit that you drew. There's sometimes, like you said, there's clearly one or two that that is their baby. They love it. But how do you vet a part, vet maybe a couple of parts for you? It's a little bit unique. Like you said, personal. A guy likes to have three staples a day. He likes to be back by dark because he's afraid of the dark. I don't want to be kept after that. That happens. I know.

There's all kinds of weird things like that. But what are some good questions to ask an outfitter? And let's talk about just from a, like, how do you vet someone out? Or maybe it's even a hunt that you do up in Canada or somewhere, Alaska, and you're trying to decide between three or four doll sheep outfitters, and they're all good. For example, Devin. For example, Devin, you're looking at going on a hunt with an outfitter, okay, up in Canada possibly. What questions would you ask? Let's just take it, like, think about that in your mind. What am I going to ask? I mean, you always want to know how the year before went or just that and the other. It would be good if you could get a list of previous hunters, whether successful or not. Recent, yeah. You know, a lot of those guys that didn't kill may have missed or had the time of their life and just, it was really picky.

Or, you know what, I got a buck, we let go, I'm going to go back next year. I'm hunting that deer. And I can't wait to go back. Can't wait to go back. That tells you just as much. I like talking to the unsuccessful guys. And a lot of the time, you know, most guys who give you a reference or past hunters, they tell it like it is. They get it. They've been in your shoes. So that definitely is good to talk to past hunters. And then not all clients are created equal. Sometimes you can read through the lines. For sure. And you can tell this client's a jerk. And he's like, yeah, I saw some big bucks, but geez, you know, I just felt like I should have killed one for 10 grand. Yeah. Kind of, you know, and you're like, okay, I can see how you didn't harvest one. And anyway, you've got to reach the line. The other question I think is important for people, and it depends on the tag type,

like Kansas, Iowa, even Wyoming deer is a good example of this, is you may ask how many. If you want to be one of two guys or the only guy in camp, if that's possible, you should ask how many clients they already have booked. I think that's a valid question, and it's a good question to ask. And, yeah, how many clients are going to be in camp with me? Yeah. If that's going to bother you, that you're one of eight, you may talk to somebody else. But if you have 9,000 square miles, which some of these guys in Alberta do. For hunting whitetails in a stand, that's different. We have outfitters. I've got 23 stands and six clients. And I drew a Poncigan archery, and I'm talking to somebody that already has three guys booked ahead of me, and I'm the fourth. That's a great example. I mean, sometimes Kansas, yeah, there's 10 guys at camp, a dozen guys in camp, they have 80 farms. Yes. Yes.

And you're in Iowa. And you sit in one tree. Some of these guys have 70, 80 farms. You sit in one tree. You're not covering a glass in anything. Yeah, don't let that spook you. But if it is, if you do want to go with a smaller outfitter, if that's important to you, that's a question to ask. Communication's a big deal. We've dealt with that a little bit. Lack of communication. It makes you nervous. Yeah. As a client, I want to know exactly, like, come in on this day. We will be there at this time. This is what you're going to expect, you know. And so sometimes the outfitters just, they do this day in and day out, year after year. And I can see it on the outfitter's side, too. Sometimes they just take it for granted. I told you to come in on this day. But, I mean, there's just a nervousness on the client side. There's definitely a balance of communication on both ends.

You don't want to overdo it either as a client. You don't want to drive the guy nuts. Yeah. And then you've got to learn to kind of roll with what it is. Just because you have a communication that said, this is going to happen on such a day or this is how it's going to go, things could change between then. You get weather. Oh, yeah. And you end up, yeah. Like most things, and especially booking hunts, it really comes down to communication. Anytime there's a problem, that's usually the root of the cause, the cause of the problem. So, yeah. Anything else there? Those are good things. I think, you know, calibers and shot distances and all of these things are just normal things. Like, you know, tell me, how do you guys go about it? What do I need to bring? What's my day going to look like? And then that way, yes. Do I need a heater bodysuit? Yeah. You know, some outfitters.

How hot, cold, what kind of boots I need. We went up there, you know, and we didn't, I don't know. I felt like we were slightly underprepared for the clothing, but we were also new at this late season white. Yeah. You know. And you think, oh, I live in a naturally cold place. Like, I can handle it. This is what I use home to hunt. Go sit. Go sit for 12 hours. Yeah. And a completely different kind of, a different kind of cold. Or those kind of things, you know, you can underprepare or whatever. So if an outfitter tells you to do something or bring it or whatever, you probably ought to. Yeah. Probably ought to. And I think as a client, you should be honest. If you do have special requests or things you need. Like, I remember guiding a hunt once and he had, we had, we were packed in. And we had mountain houses, peak refuels. And he had, what is it, gluten something.

He couldn't eat most of the food we had. He had a few of his own, but we had to make a special trip to get. I've had to do that. You know what I mean? Things like that, like that. You better tell your outfitter before you get there. That's my point. And I've had a hunter do that to me. And I had to go to a whole, I knew, I now know where the gluten-free and all that section is in the grocery store. They all have them. And if you're beforehand, it's no problem. I learned something on this podcast. I didn't even know there was a section. Oh, yeah. At Walmart. Yeah. There's a whole section. And it's easy. I just go grab that, and that's his, and this is ours. But if they tell you when they get there, everything has wheat. Any crackers, cheese. Noodles. Anything. Spaghetti. You can't get around it. Bread. A loaf of bread for sandwiches.

That's why you can't touch a fork to bread and then something else without that contaminating it. It can be. Any allergies like that. But, yeah, dietary, physical limitations. If I'm an outfitter and I hear somebody needs gluten-free, I'm like, me and you, man, we just, this isn't a hunt for you. Yeah, it's hard. It ain't that hard. They got rice flour, potato flour, bread. I mean, it's pretty easy, guys. If nothing else, if nothing else. They need their own trailer. They need their own truck. It's not like an allergy. If they touch it, they die. It just makes them sick. I mean, I've got a daughter that has it. Go crap your brains out. Yeah. It just makes you. I'm just. Or throw up or whatever. I don't know. Just be a man about it. Right, Cass? Yeah. That's why we always just resort. I know it's a real thing because I tease a little bit. This is way light. Okay.

I mean, there are people in this office that need gluten-free. I get it. I just don't get it because I'm not. It doesn't affect me. You don't understand it. You don't understand it. It doesn't affect me. But if you did have that sensitivity and you were going on a hunt, you'd probably be prepared to at least tell them. If you're going on a 15-day backpack hunt and you only brought two little 20 packs of baby wipes and you had to eat gluten, you're going to have a problem with carton. So it would become a big issue. That's why I think I just resort to. Just tell me. If the outfitter wants me to bring lots of men. What are they called now? Dude wipes. Dude wipes. Yeah. Gorilla wipes. Just resort to. That's why we always just resort to Snickers. I mean, you can't go wrong. Unless you're allergic to peanuts. 45 Snickers. Or they melt in the sun. Okay. Anyway. I could live on those. Yeah.

I think that dietary, physical limitations. I mean, if you need a CPAP at night, you're going to be in a tent. You might need electricity. Yeah. That's something you need to communicate prior. Absolutely. All that stuff. I mean, you've got one leg, one arm, whatever. Anything. Okay. You guys brought up. This is right up. Hey, I have to say, this is a little intimidating. I've always been the question reader guy. And I've always known what's coming next. This is kind of nerve-wracking. And I've got some for you in just a minute. Speaking of which, hit the Viking. I've got a good one here in a minute. But right along some lines, you guys mentioned this, actually. Another question here, actually asked by an outfitter at Dusty Trails. He wants to talk about, and this is good for the education for people coming out western hunting.

Because me as a guide and outfitter, you guys have all, several of you have guided people. This is a very important conversation we've got to have. But what distances should I be comfortably shooting out west, weapon specific? So we'll talk rifle. We'll talk archery. Let's have it. Well, so I feel like there's a lot of clients from back east that are not, I mean, 400 is a very long shot. Yeah. You know, and it's common. 300. You get them. 300. Like, you guys, you know, a guy comes in from hunting sheep. He lives back east. I mean, and there's a respect that goes along with the animal. Like, you know, it's not really want to. I personally don't want to shoot a sheep at 900 yards. No. But I would shoot a mule deer every day at 900 yards. Do I have less respect for a mule deer because of that? No. No.

But I think there's something to, usually on a sheep hunt, there's no, you don't, you're one of the few guys on the unit. You know, there's an experience there. When you've decided. I don't know that they're not going to get away. It just doesn't feel like they're going to get away, you know. This is what I tell people, and you guys can chime in. But for, and it's a little bit different. If you live out west and a lot of guys have a gun that's already set up, you're not having to break the news to them. But I've had a lot of clients from back east. They don't own anything except for a white-tailed gun. 7 M08 through 8. It's a 200-yard rifle. Let's call it what it is. They don't, they can't see past that. And in most cases there, I'll talk with them about, if you don't want to fly with a firearm, don't fly with your firearm. We'll have one out here.

I always bring one as a backup for all my hunters anyway. We've had to use them in the middle of hunts because certain guns have problems. Scope comes loose or whatever. You can't get it sighted in or re-zeroed after they get here. But I tell people, you better be prepared to shoot 500 yards. That is kind of a minimum for out west with a rifle. Now if that freaks them out a little bit, and it's because, hey, well, I've never shot anything past 250, then just say, okay. A lot of times it comes into a, they don't have a place they can shoot that far back east. They don't have a range. It's flat. They don't, yeah, it's thick trees. And their shooting range is 100 or 200 yards. So you just work with them on that and say, hey, if you're overwhelmed by that and have to go spend two, three, whatever grand to buy a gun and a setup that you feel like you can use out west,

you know, a lot of guides and outfitters out here might be able to offer you a gun. But I would say you better be prepared for that out west. That is, that is a, that's a normal realm of reality anymore. And that's even changed in our lifetime, Jason. 500 yards when you and I were 15 or 16. I hate the story. 100 yards. I hate the story of my first big buck in 2003. You know, and it was 400 and whatever, 50 yards. And I kind of had to walk it in there. Yes, exactly. And that's when, you know. Just holdovers is all we were doing. Yeah, Mark Thompson was getting cranking on Thompson Long Range. Good friend of ours, also a supporter of Epic, and we support him aggressively. Just super good people. But they, he changed my life. And let's just call it ethical, normal range. It's not even really long range.

It's just being able to, you know, know where your bullet's going to hit at 3, 4, 5, 6, 700 yards. I think those are normal things to ask now. Yep. With today's technology, back then it wasn't. And it was like you kind of wondered about holdover and this and that, but we didn't even, they weren't even grouping that well. Everything's come so far compared to what it once was. But I think 500 is just a standard you better be prepared for. You have an average. You get a scope, too. A lot of these scopes, like the wheel carrier, that we have on our rifles or anything, you, once you find the animal or whatever, and you crank it up to 20 power, a 500-yard shot, you can still pick a spot on an animal at that point. You know, it doesn't feel, it doesn't feel like that's a long shot. It doesn't, to me, it doesn't feel any different. When you get beyond 5, it starts, there are other things.

And, yeah, there's stuff that can influence it. But between 2 and 500 yards, there's really no difference to me personally. I feel like you just dial the scope a little farther, you know. There's a few things mechanically you need to do. But, like, as far as the sight picture, I feel like from 2 to 3 to 4 to 5, there's not much of a difference with the scopes and stuff that we have. I agree. And we were using 3 to 9s and 4 to 12s. And shoulder one of those or a muzzle or one power or whatever, it feels similar. Now, if you're dialing up to, you know, whatever, 18 power or 24 power or whatever power you like, it's a difference, right? I mean, you can see, and with now, we're all shooting off, you know, a tripod or a bipod or whatever. And we're just better at making sure that we make that shot count.

I think part of it, too, is the finite of the resource is such a finite resource anymore of not, if you blow that chance, you might have blown your chance. Yeah. You know, and so, where back in the day, it was like, well, let's go find another one. I mean, it was a little more readily available, especially deer, you know, and so, anyway. What about archery? I haven't talked about that yet. What should a guy out west, let's just call it mule deer, what should you be proficient at? I'd say 0 to 60. I was going to say. 0 to 60, I would say. Practice to 70, 80 if you can. If you can, practice longer, but for this reason. For the same reason I tell people all the time, I've never had anybody ever initiate a sheep shot over 600 yards. You know, and that was, if it was under that, a 5 or 6 or 550, I knew dang sure it was either my gun or that they knew their gun and I knew this hunter.

But, I've had experiences where a gun that was capable of shooting, Jason, you were with me on this hunt, shoots the ram at 200 yards, runs over the ridge. By the time we climb the ridge and get there, the ram's limping at 6, 7, 8. Finally stops at 8. As I'm reading every range, he's proned out on a bipod. The thing's running away, limping. And it stops and does a look back at 800 yards and he's dialed because I've been, every 25 yards, he's doing another click. Stops at 800 yards, he puts it twice behind the shoulder and dies. Twice. At 800 yards. And they were within an inch of each other. Like this guy knew. Wow. That gun was capable. We didn't initiate it. But for the same purpose on a bow, if you shoot an elk and he hunches and goes into the trees and now he's at 80 or something like that. And you don't have any mechanism to have a floating pin or something.

And I realize that gets into a technology thing and pins and all that. But if you have the ability to have a little bit of a dial or something that you have, hey, that bull has hit, get another arrow in him or deer or whatever, it sure is nice. We've seen that. Well, not only that is when I practice, I practice at 90 yards on an archery. But now 60 feels like nothing. Yes. That's why I say do it. 50 feels like nothing. It's the same thing with the rifle. It's 600 or 800 yards and now you do a 300 to 400 yards. I don't like a 90. Like a 300 to 400 yard shot, it feels like I don't even turn my power up anymore. It's just because of the advancements and everything we have. And that's why I say I wouldn't tell a guy ever to shoot 80, whatever, at an animal or something like that. But that from 0 to 20 yards in your backyard feels like nothing.

The difference between 60 to 80 yards out in the field or whatever is significant. But if you just try and hit 80, and even if you're not grouping at 80 or something like that, just practice trying to focus on the target and hitting the target every time at 80. When you go to shoot 60 on a bull or whatever, you're going to smack him. And it's not going to feel like a significant shot in some ways. And you also learn, in my experience, shooting at those longer range with a floating pin, you learn more about what stabilizers you might need different if you shoot a little bit further. Then if you just shoot everything at 30, 40 yards, it doesn't matter. You don't need a stabilizer. You don't need that. You learn different things about bow balance, whether your quiver helps your effects. You get the wind blowing you with a quiver and things like that. You guys know what I'm talking about.

Everything gets amplified the further out on all of your gear that then can tighten it up in the wheelhouse range, we'll call it. It's good practice, too, because any mistake you're making at 30 is very, like, it's amplified significantly at 70, 80. And so, like, you might not even know you're making a mistake at 30. That's what I'm talking about. I've known guys who have one pin, and that's it. I mean, I know them well, right? And so, anyway, and they're a 30-yard guy, 20, 30-yard guy, or 10 to 30-yard guy. And if you're that guy, you're that guy, and that's fine. And you're just not going to make the most of your tags because it just is what it is. And you're going to have the opportunities. You just hold out and eat tags if they're not within 30 yards. And so, I guess it goes back to what you're comfortable of, 0 to 60. You should work hard at being comfortable at 60.

But if you're not, then you're not. Yeah, that's right. And don't take it out further. Don't force it. Don't do Kentucky windage or, you know, and aim high. No. You need to be more calculated than that, more precise than that. You don't take the shot. If you're only good at 30, you're good at 30. But it is a different world coming from east to west hunting with a bow. They're all in tree stands. If you say, I can't shoot anything 20, 30 yards, you're going to be severely limited. Yes. You're going to have some frustrated guides and outfitters out there that have call bulls in at 35 to 50 yards. And that's just, you need to be prepared for that. Not west. You absolutely have to. Can I add one thing to the rifle thing coming back? You bet. That I've seen guiding guys for a long, long time. The guys will say, yeah, I'm good out to 5, 600 with this rifle. And that's at home on a bench, right?

And then they show up, we're hunting, and all of a sudden it's kill time. Yeah. And they don't have a bipod, shooting sticks. They've never shot off a pack, prone, all that. It's like, it's a whole other, like, I don't even know how to do this. It almost doesn't even matter what you told me. You know? So, definitely. Devin, do you have the lead sled in the back of the truck? Where's your picnic table? Yeah, like, you know, I'd be like, shoot off this pack. I'm like, what do you mean? You know what I mean? Like, shoot off the pack. That's our only option. We have no. And you're going to be dead steady. Or you lay prone and they have no bipod. Just be prepared to shoot in the field. I think, yeah, as a client, there's things. We expect things of guides, but the guides expect things of clients. And be prepared with your gear. Both of them. Yep. Anyways.

I know we're going long, but there's a couple of these here that it regards to the Utah draw. And I feel like if we don't do it now. Won't get done. That's right. This guy says, last one. We can call it the last one. Jay Barton 30. I drew an elk tag in Utah as a resident in 22. It says, and now I'm four years into deer. What would I do to draw and make it worth the time and effort? I feel like it'll be years before I ever draw an L.A. deer tag. Well, that's true. That's a tough spot. It depends on also, I guess I would say, how much do you love elk? We've been teasing Wyatt that he's on a five-year waiting period for deer right now. He loves deer more than elk. That's self-proclaimed. We're not even announcing anything to the world there. We've been teasing him about late arteries on these elk to just get done in five years.

Because you know you're going right back to deer on year five, six, whatever. But that would be a question I have with this guy. Are you dying to get back to elk as soon as you're off? Or deer, yeah, elk right after your deer period. Or you kill a deer. Or your elk waiting period is over. Sorry, butchered that. Depends on how aggressive. If you're an elk hunter, yeah, draw any deer. Aggressiveness in the application all depends on what you want. I would say try to draw one of the late muzzles on the general for deer. Anywhere that's, you're almost off it. You've got four points. So you've only got like another year. That's probably why he's asking this. That leads me to think he wants to go back to elk sooner. Because as residents, yeah, we have to. Yeah, you've got five years. You can't do them both. So I'd say look at the late muzzles on the generals.

I mean, I know they're not elaborate. They may not be, they may be, your hunting unit just got crushed by hundreds, in some cases, thousands of general deer hunters. And now you're trying to find a buck that sticks his nose out of the brush five days later. And all that. But there's not a lot of options. But even just, I guess, diving into that. I mean, there's, you take it like a Southwest Desert late muzzle. It's impressive what they kill versus the general. It is. And one little snowstorm there at the end of October. One cold snap. And it does go for, what, eight or ten days that season. So it does start a couple days after. But it does go, you're pushing almost two weeks. And now we're going into whole different subjects. But it goes back to the SKUs of Utah and all of the different options. Pick, like you're saying, get creative. Get it done if you want.

And your experience will probably be just great. There's great options. We're just, we're so discriminating. We want the right tag on the right year with my expectations, with, I mean, everything. Custom to me. Custom to you, Cash. Like, what do I want exactly? And so we're so used to that that just take something and go, you're going to have a great time. Yeah. And it's a limited entry point in Utah, so it feels a little more special than just a general point. But you're probably actually trying to scrap to get to Colorado to hunt a similar unit as far as structure of bucks and stuff. And you'd go do it with those same dates and be like, I'm going to go over there and do that or whatever. Exactly. But, ooh, I'm going to pump the brakes here on Utah. Like, you'd actually hunt that same one here with those dates.

I look at those dates and say, yeah, I'd take one of those tags on any of my stuff. But because it's a limited entry point, you're a little more hesitant to punch that, punch it. So it's tricky. But there's options. I was looking at some just yesterday. What for? Whoa. Well, I don't know. Just helping people burn points. Oh, not personal stuff. No. I thought you were going to tell us what you were personally about to do. That's how we were going? He's got project. I thought we had an announcement here. Oh, I got points. We all have projects. We just don't want them aired out. Kind of like the NFL draft that's coming up. On the clock is this. And Pollock just, we got an announcement. We got a pick in from Joshua S. Pollock on what he applied for Utah General. Josh, what did you do? JFP, tell us. I mean, all of us have points places. I always try to look for something. Okay. Anyway.

We have anything else? That was great. Well, there's one more. And I know this. But it's regarding drought. And the reason I bring it up is there are states like Utah and Nevada that are pending still. Not a question. But give us some encouragement on the drought. Hey, I heard a guy claiming last night there was a season saver storm. That's all I can say. Who said that? It was in a video that I saw. Who said it? Real season saver. Okay. And I don't necessarily agree with that. But I do think this is timely moisture is everything and we're getting it. Yeah. And so while we were way dry and it was terrible and 40-year record dry and on and on and on, all the bad things that we've talked about. In the last 45 days, when it had to turn on or it's going to be devastatingly bad, we've actually got some in southern Utah, northern Arizona, Nevada. Right as it starts greening up.

It's going to be the best time. It's awesome. Well, it's actually, I'm excited. I'm encouraged it's going to be an average year. Well, exactly. We've seen it happen. It comes in a storm. So the next week it's 70, 80. It touched 90 in St. George last week. And then we got another dousing. And then it's going to get warm again. It just immediately greens up. Tell me when to turn my water in. But I'm hoping I don't have to for a minute. Because it's nice. It's holding off a little bit. But there's a lot more to it. I think I personally, April and May, weather, March, April, May, but April and May for deer. Of course, elk and some of these places maybe, you know, out in the flats of Arizona, things like that are going to be challenged. Yeah, high desert units are going to be challenged. But units that have traditional, we'll call it summer range. Winter range, mid range, and summer range.

And green up, you know, it doesn't happen as, in heavy snow years, it'll happen over two or three months. We don't have that much snow in the high country now to be greening up in June and July for the first time. It's not. But it does still have a lag. And that does help our elk. It helps them in Nevada. It helps them in Utah. I think, watch out elk this year. The predictions for Nevada and maybe even Utah, Josh, Adam, we can all chime in on this. Maybe even for Utah, for sure, Nevada, it's going to be off the charts. Elk, especially. For elk. Yeah. I want to designate that. I mean, not deer. I mean, it's like, what, the driest winter we've had in 40 years or something. So don't. If you just look at snowpack and reservoirs holding. Think of that. Yeah. But also, some of the benefits, on the other hand, were we've actually had a couple good years previous.

So we've actually got some animals that are in good shape. They haven't had to fight. Tough winter conditions. You've got age class on elk, especially. A lot of standing feed and easy feed. Everything was as easy. But things are uncovered. You don't have the snowpack that, like, Bronson was alluding to for June and July, where you're just getting out of your snowpack. Yeah. We're actually going to have green up high early. Remember that? Yes. Like, three or four winters ago, it didn't green up until, like, June 15th. Oh, yeah. It was kind of. So later, we were not good that year. Yeah, we were so excited. But it hurt. They had to eat mahogany. In July, and you're like, oh, no. It's not. It's bad. It hasn't even greened up. But it's because it hadn't had a chance to green up yet. It didn't green up until August. Those elk were eating mahogany.

So you're saying elk could be off the charts in Utah. Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to make. I've made a prediction once about green grass, and I've never been able to live it down. I'm not going to tell you about the bull. I saw a green blade of grass between here. The Paralwood. Yeah, Paralwood. In January. Paraguna. I want to add. And it was probably an alfalfa field. It was the year we were just talking about. The spring that never came. We saw a green in early February. It was. So I'm not going to tell you about the bull. I saw it with tangs and things the other day already. But you won't believe me, so I'm not going to tell you. Hey, I can back you up on that. I saw the same thing. What? You did? Oh, yeah. You saw what? Were you guys together? Tangs. Oh, gosh. Fresh tangs. Fresh, bulbous, fuzzy tangs. Oh, the one that got killed? No, no, no.

The one you sent as pictures that got highway killed? Well, I've seen some since. But, yes, that one, unfortunately. That one. Bulbous tangs. The bulbous tang. The bulbous tangs is dead. Going from work. Bulbous tangs is dead. But there could be other bulbous tangs animals starting to run around out there. Me and Josh had a conversation, and we were both impressed at what each other saw. For the time of year. I do think deer average at best. Yeah, for sure. But, hey, I'd take average. It might be slightly under average. It feels like we're getting enough moisture, it's going to pull it out. And I think, like, northern Nevada could be off the charts. I think northern Nevada's have been just fine. They've escaped it. I talked to a lot of guys up north, Montana, Wyoming, and they're just, their whole winter's been like, bunch of snow, rain, melt. Bunch of snow, rain, melt.

It's been a good cycle. Like, the ground is. How about Bronson? So, what people want to know, I guess, is Utah, Nevada. What are you telling people on deer, though? I mean, elk we're talking about apply. Elk are so hard to draw in Utah, Nevada, you'd probably take a tag in an average year. I think. But deer. I think any more. I've thought about this. You know where we're at age-wise. And we're not over the hill necessarily, Cash, Logan. Might just be on the ridge. Just try us. Just on the ridge. But having said that, how long are you going to wait for this perfect storm, the perfect tag, the perfect amount of points that you have to force the draw, and have the perfect deer alive at the genetics and the age and the 14,000 factors, I am getting to be more in the camp of and waiting for the DWR to, you know, have a mishap in management. Happy accident. Okay.

That ends up allowing for some older deer on the landscape. I just, you know, whatever. I just feel like all those variables have to be perfect anymore. And is that going to happen in the next decade? How about two decades, bro? Maybe. Maybe. But I just feel like it's time to hunt. I feel like it's okay to take a tag and get after it. And I think, you know, there are places. Even Wyoming, we've talked about it. Oh, yeah. You know, not a lot of deer on the landscape, but the deer that are there are pretty all right. Pretty awesome. If you have a diverse enough application strategy around the West, if you're put in for one state, then I guess maybe you're going to subscribe to the philosophy, I better get this right.

But hopefully we've encouraged, and through our business and encouragement about building points around the West so you have options, whether it be short-term, medium, long-range goals. If you have that, don't put so much pressure on yourself to fail or to get it absolutely right in the right year because there's a lot that can go wrong during your hunt. The weather in Colorado, when you draw your long-weighted deer tag, will have more to do with how great or how things line up there than just how many points it took you to draw a tag. And there's not a right year. It feels like you can't predict the right antler growth year in Colorado. No. Like, go every year. Usually every single year if you can. As often as you can. And other states, I mean, it's hard to force your way to Nevada. Nevada draw? Yeah. The Nevada drought? Like, that's a problem. Yeah.

You know, there are years I would skip Nevada. Well, and the tag numbers are so low right now. Like, the odds are so terrible to draw a tag for deer, especially a lot of people talking about. Like, you still would probably take one in these very better units this year because the odds of drawing them, even if the tags double, Jason, in three to five more years and go back to where they were, they're still astronomical. They're terrible. Tough odds. But, you know, like Taylor we were talking to on the phone, say he's a resident of Arizona. He's got over-the-counter deer opportunities. They do have harvest limits, but he's got options all the while he could build, you know, build points for the strip or whatever and go to Colorado. So we each have options in our own state. We can get a general tag more frequently than maybe a non-resident or whatever.

You know, Colorado residents get to draw all the time. Their odds are so easy. I would love their odds as a resident. And so, anyway, I mean, you get to have these opportunities while saving for something special, but what's that special? How is that going to line up for you? And so, anyway, that goes back into the short-term, long-term, mid-term, medium-type draws, application strategies, and getting tags and using tags. But, anyway, so I feel like, yeah, grab a tag. I mean, I think it's, I think it'll be fine. I mean, we're going to predict that it's not going to be off the charts for deer, but I'm not saying don't use your points unless you're that guy that'll pass a 190. If you're going to pass a 190-inch deer or you're going to pass a low 200s deer. You're not going to hunt very many deer tags. You're not going to, and you're good with it.

Or you're going to, and you're going to eat a lot. And be good with it. It's okay. That's the state that we're in. And this light winter up north, awesome. These guys are excited. I wanted to dive in just slightly, and we're out of time and totally want to be done, and this was supposed to be half the length that it is. But the buck-to-dow ratios that we're finding in Wyoming. Yeah. Nevada. Nevada's managing for 30 to 35 bucks per hundred does. Wyoming postseason. Once 30, they're at 28 to 30 in the G&H winter range going into winter. Postseason. Postseason on a general season area. Granted, overall numbers, like we've all been talking, and you read in this magazine that's at the printer now, overall numbers are way down. They really are. But they've had incredible fawn production the last couple years and survival work because you have a lot less deer on the landscape.

It's fairly common after a big winter if you have at least not down to 10% of the population. You know what I mean? You have enough does to just crank it. There's a lot more resources on the resource or on the landscape for these fawns to spread out. Have babies. Raise them to, you know, raise them to a year old and kick them off and have another set. You know? We're seeing that. Antelope, too, off the charts. Off the charts. Antelope production. You're seeing really high. Most of them are 75, 80 to 100 fawns per 100 does. Wow. Some are over 100. And these are years that I'm looking at. I mean, okay, changing the subject a little. I look at, like, Idaho and I think there's challenges in Idaho with deer quality and things. These might be years I would look at and say, I want to apply for sheep, you know, or something like that.

And what brought that up in my mind was you talking about the antelope. Not necessarily wanting to kill an antelope each and every year, but I was looking at the coos deer in Arizona thinking, if it's so hard for a non-resident to draw a tag that I want, which it is. I want a special tag. I've been lucky over the years, so I want something special. I'm thinking, I really should look at the coos deer. I really should look at antelope. This is a year to do that. Antelope. When Wyoming's good, you hunt antelope. Yeah. Yeah. That's something you add to your schedule to go have a kick butt time. Because, yeah, I don't really have the points to draw my elk or the deer tag that I want. And the deer maybe are still kind of not where I want to be. But other stuff. That's why you have diverse points around the west. Just like you have a Kansas point here and there or an Iowa point here and there.

Or, yeah, your deer points flip to the coos in Arizona. You're like, I can't draw what I want up here and it's a drought. Anyway, I'm going to try one of the better coos units down there this year. Go have fun. And then one last thing I'm going to leave everybody with is. Why are you grinning? Well, I just, because we weren't going to talk about Wyatt. But he's our license application guy. He's the head of that division, does a great job at it. And there's nobody that thinks more about these application strategies. I mean, I would say we rival him. But, hey, he does it a lot. And he's very contemplative. I just want to turn my applications over to him. Really? Yeah, he makes good choices. But it's hard for him to make a choice. So the problem is I'm going to hunt less. He's the very bottom catfish at the bottom of the hole. And it takes a lot.

It takes a lot to pull him out from under the log. That lure. I don't know what lure, jig, live worm, bleeding worms, whatever you're going to get to get in there. Corn does not. He doesn't even look at corn. It takes a stick of dynamite. I've always said, if you get a green light from Wyatt on something, you better dang sure think about doing it. And that's the only thing that's causing me to think on a couple of things. He's made a couple of comments. And I'm like, I've made really poor application choices. I've eaten a lot of tags in bad years. I've just blown my Utah deer points on the worst year. You know, it's things like that. You're that bass that you catch. And when you reel it in, it's already got two jigs in the other side of its jaw that broke the line. Yes. He's already been hit by it. He's already been caught. You have to noodle him out.

And Wyatt's fat and happy at 14 pounds laying around under the log. You have to noodle him to get him out. You've got to go in and get him. You've got to be the fish noodler. Yeah. And that's a thing. We ought to do that one of these things. Anyway, I'm just like, sometimes I really do think, I really do think, what would Wyatt do? WWW. And do that. I think that, I mean, honestly. I'm going to write that on my board in my office. Yeah. Just look at it off. It's the truth. Let's just do it and he'll ask you what it means. Everyone do it and he'll just start and all this on it. Just do the three W's and a D and just tell he asks somebody, what is that? We should make a sign and put it somewhere in the office. Just a little sign. Let's do it. Like a long sign. I'm already there. We work with John. That's WWD. Kind of like the handicap parking signs that went up in our place last year.

I finally had to tear mine down. The girls loved that. Oh, they had fun with that. They have a good time. And we appreciate it. We've got the best office staff anywhere. But anyway, a little shout out to QU. Appreciate them and their support of us here at Epic Outdoors. They make some incredible gear, base layers, insulation outerwear, packs, sleeping systems, footwear and accessories. We appreciate them. We're friends with them. Brendan Burns has been a good friend of ours and supporter over the years. He's a killer. And we just love being affiliated with good people and good companies. And QU is that. And so, anyway, forevermore, we will be associated with QU. And, again, appreciate them and their support. Support them. Go to the web. Hit them up on QU's website. Order up some gear. And you'll be happy. It's the best gear on planet Earth. All right. Yeah. Also, Outdoor Edge.

Pretty big announcement from them this week. They came out with the new Razer APX line of knives. They're actually going to have several coming out. But this one's actually pretty awesome. It's a new knife they're coming out with. It's kind of a skeletonized tang on it, if you will. So, that way, you can actually have – it has removable scales on the side. And they're kind of a nice, soft, rubber scale. But the cool thing inside the scale of that knife is you can actually do a blade storage. It's got a magnetized blade storage that comes with that knife. So, if you want to put the scales on it, you can have extra blades on both sides of that. Or you can run it without those, as you guys say. Why not? Or you can run them without them. But you can just keep that with you as a blade storage. But they're out of the way, that kind of thing. They do come in a 2 1⁄2-inch as well as a 3-inch.

The 3-inch actually comes with a pack that's got a blade holder for used blades. As well, it comes with a little pick so you can clean all your stuff out of your knife. Sometimes it's hard to get that stuff out of there. And it also comes with a saw blade, too, with that 3-inch model. So, we've actually got a couple of them the other day. We were looking at them, and they're awesome knives. I'm excited to use those. It's a great knife from Outdoor Edge. So, we appreciate them. Worked with them for a long time, and we've all used their knives for quite a while. It's a removable blade knife. It's going to be pretty dang awesome. Can't wait to run it. Very innovative. I love one. The 3.0 Razor APX. Yeah. Very innovative. They've done a lot of thinking here to just improve what they've already done for a great job at for a long time. Yeah. We're in order of ground 11. Yeah. Shortly.

Or get online and go check those out at OutdoorEdge.com, and you can see what we're talking about. It's that Razor APX. Okay. Any of you out there that aren't a member, please become a member here at Epic Outdoors. Go to EpicOutdoors.com. Membership's $150 a year. You get a printed magazine December through June, bimonthly, the remainder of the year. Nine issues. We cover all the Western states. You can call in any time you want. There's no limit, time limit, or anything like that. We're happy to consult with you year-round and visit with you about application strategies. Of course, there's other things we can apply to actually take over your applications with your help and deciding on what you want to do and work together on figuring out how to get you more tags, better tags, whatever it is you want. Even just gaining points, we have a lot of that, too. So, anyway, EpicOutdoors.com.

We do this. This is all we do 24-7 for the most part with the exception of rocking babies to sleep once in a while. Huh, Devin? Yeah. And sometimes we are family men, too. But, anyway, our work life is consisted of Western Big Game hunting only 24-7. And we've been doing it for decades, literally decades. So, anyway, be happy to visit with you. Again, EpicOutdoors.com. Get signed up. You'll have access to online odds and all of those kind of things as well, which are the easiest out there to use. Extremely accurate. Proud of them. Something we consult off of every single day, day in and day out. So, all right. That's all I've got. Bronson, you got anything? No. A lot to cover. We've got a lot to cover next week, too. So, yeah, stay tuned for the next one. Right on. Cash, Logan, are you guys good? Good. Yeah. You guys good? We might fight after this, but we're good.

It's easy to take a guppy, though. It is. Don't worry. It is. Especially these new age guppies. Oh, yeah. All right. All right. Let's face it. If your goal is to kill big stuff, you need to draw quality tags. Quality tags are typically hard to draw. To increase your odds of drawing good tags, you need to apply in multiple states. That's where an Epic Outdoors membership can help. For only $150 a year, you get access to our consultants, our online tools, and to Epic-approved outfitters and members-only optics discounts. With unlimited access to our team of consultants and access to the Epic Outdoors magazines, applying in multiple states is easy. No more worrying if you're applying for the best areas, no more applying for a unit where there has been a die-off, and no more missing opportunities where you could be in the field and not sitting at home.

Go online at epicoutdoors.com or call us today at 435-263-0777 to find out how you can become a member today. Kuyu is the most uncompromising camo on the market. Their new Guide Pro series is the toughest, most comfortable camo you will ever own. Check out their new additions and shop men and women's camo now at kuyu.com. That's K-U-I-U dot com. Applying for tags in multiple western states can be time-consuming. At Epic Outdoors, we have you covered. Whether you want to expand your hunting portfolio or simply ensure that you never miss a deadline again, the Epic Outdoors licensed application service is exactly what you need. It's like having the best CPAs in the finance world do your taxes. Let the best hunting application gurus in the world do your tag applications.

You'll never miss a deadline, you'll never apply for the wrong unit, and you'll never apply for a unit that's having a die-off. Your time is valuable. We do the work. You draw the tags. Epic Outdoors licensed app. 435-263-0777. If you want a bow from the best manufacturer there is, look at Hoyt Archery. With the addition of the new Carbon RX-8 and the Aluminum Alpha X, Hoyt has reimagined what a bow can do. Hoyt bows. Where 70 pounds feels like 60. Call us to order yours today. 435-263-0777. With fierce rifles, every detail matters. They are hands down one of the best rifle manufacturers in the industry, and they never seem to stop making new innovations. If you want to get serious about your long-range shooting, call us to talk over your options for your next fierce rifle. Epic Outdoors is an official fierce rifle dealer. Our consultants know their whole line of rifles inside and out.

435-263-0777. Epic Optics is an authorized dealer for Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, Vortex, Leopold, Kawa, Sig Sauer, and more. Here at Epic Optics, we are committed to getting you the best deal for the glass that fits your needs. Go to EpicOptics.com or call in to speak with our consultants who will fit you with the perfect optics for your next hunt. 435-263-0777. If you're looking for your next hunting property, look no further than St. James. St. James are the experts at all sporting properties across the West. Their team of agents will spend the time getting to know you personally and find out which property out of the hundreds they have listed is perfect for you. If you've always wanted a property where you could hunt and fish, go online to StJamesSportingProperties.com or give them a call at 855-711-7577 to learn more. Vortex makes optics for every occasion.

Whether you're a long-range shooter dialing in that perfect shot or an archery hunter in need of an easy-to-carry optic without sacrificing quality, Vortex has you covered. Head over to EpicOptics.com or call us to learn more about your Vortex options today at 435-263-0777. From top-of-the-line hunting blinds to game calls that can't be beat, GSM Outdoors has you covered for whatever outdoor equipment you need. For all of their products, head over to GSMOutdoors.com to learn more. Thompson Long Range has perfected the art of simple, affordable long-range shooting. If you don't want to calculate ballistics or adjust your turrets before making a shot, a Thompson Long Range system is for you. Simply range, place the hash mark for that distance on the animal, and pull the trigger.

They make top-quality rifles and host a shooting school that will leave you confident in making shots out to 1,000 yards. Visit ThompsonLongRange.com to learn more about purchasing your next rifle or booking your next shooting school experience. The crew at Epic Outdoors trust StealthCam trail cameras to get us through the scouting season. StealthCam is the leading trail camera brand because they never stop innovating. Check out their brand new line of trail cameras, including the Revolver 360-degree camera, at StealthCam.com. Epic Outdoors is an official StealthCam dealer. Call us to order yours today at 435-263-0777. PhoneScope changed the game with their digiscoping innovations and have remained the top phone-to-optic adapter on the market. Check out the incredible new Carbon Pro PhoneScope now at PhoneScope.com. P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P-E.com.

Outdoor Edge is the knife that we all use here at Epic Outdoors. Whether it's a replaceable blade or fixed blade, you will not be disappointed with your Outdoor Edge knife. Head over to OutdoorEdge.com and check out their brand new Razer VX knife today. Epic Outdoors is proud to be an official Zeiss dealer and optics partner. When it comes to top-tier quality, Zeiss has been a leader in the industry for generations. If you're in the market for new optics, give us a call for unbelievable deals on Zeiss products. Giving you the highest quality and durability out there without breaking the bank is what makes Zeiss so good. Check out our website, EpicOptics.com or call us at 435-263-0777 to find out which Zeiss optic is perfect for you. Epic Outdoors is now an official CVA muzzleloader dealer.

If you're in the market for a new muzzleloader, our staff can go over the different options that you should consider. CVA muzzleloaders are the go-to muzzleloader for Epic Outdoors and crew. We've definitely got our favorite setups for Western big game hunting in stock. Call us today at 435-263-0777 to find out which CVA is perfect for your next hunt.