EP 376: A 190" Utah Mule Deer and 400" Utah Bull, Q&A Part 3

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Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, Logan. Logan's at the keyboard. How you doing, Logan? I'm doing good. Bronson, how you doing? Fine. We're doing great. Yeah. That sounded kind of like a boring fine. Well, I'm not fine and neither are you, so we can't fake it. I don't know. We're trying to get a magazine. I sound fine. It's not how you're saying it. It's not how you really are. Voice, do they call it inflection? Is that what they call it? Hey, I can fake it. When you're at magazine deadline, nothing's fine. So anyway, we do have a magazine deadline. But it's done. We're good. It's headed to the printer, so. Well, plus or minus, John's doing something. Our work's done. How about that? Yeah. I guess that's all that matters, right? To me. John, we've actually got it to him early. We feel pretty proud of ourselves, but nevertheless, he'll still be cranking through the nights.

Who knows? But anyway, got to crank out a podcast. I guess, Bronson, we should be, I guess Epic Optics is sponsoring this podcast. They sure are. Yep. I got their check in the mouth, so there you are. I like it. So anyway, if you're looking for anything optics-wise, we sell it here at Epic Outdoors. Give us a holler. All the name brands, the major name brands, or anything you're looking to do, if you're looking to get something that you might not think we sell, you never know. Give us a holler. So 435-263-0777, Swarov, Zeiss, Sig, Laika, I don't know what else, Vortex. What did I miss? Leupold. Bulsar, Sig. Bulsar. Who else? Coa. I mean, all. Yeah. Lots. Anyway, if you're looking for something, definitely give us a holler. We've got the best pricing out there. Pricing's so low, we just can't really advertise it out in the open. So anyway, it's member pricing. Give us a holler.

We're happy to help you. If we have it, generally same-day shipping. If we have to order it, it'll be as soon as we get it. Not a problem. Generally, everybody's got stuff in stock, or at least let's call it within the U.S., which is kind of a big deal. Are we at war yet, Bronson? I haven't looked at my phone for a while. What do you mean a while, like an hour? It's by the hour I'm wondering what Trump's doing. There's certain websites I refresh, and during the day when I don't want to get a bad mood, I don't hit refresh on it. Right? My feed's full. I like having $2.50 gas. I am kind of enjoying that. But my feed's full of news, and I can't decide what's real and what's not. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Isn't it projected that at the end of times, you're not going to be able to decipher these things? Kevin, you're a guest. We haven't even introduced you yet.

What's your opinion on this, Kevin? Yeah. We've got scriptural inferences. No, I know. Oh, jeez. I mean, I don't really want to go down those holes yet. But generally speaking, I don't know. Do we really? Times are crazy. Do we really know what's happening? You read something, and finally I'm like, all right, I'm going to go to Fox for the real news, but then I'm not even sure about that. Yeah. In the sports world, it's the same way. If you're not careful in watching feeds, there's people going to coach football. The NFL has like eight or ten vacancies right now, and there's people all over getting hired places. Not true. Not true. You've got to look at ESPN in an incredible spot. Yeah. There's a lot of speculatory crap out there. Same thing over there in Iran right now. So I guess what I'm saying is, if you want something optics-wise, and I don't know how

we deviated to that, but if you want something optics-wise, if it's at a distributor or within some of these main companies, Suaro, if it's here, we can get it here fast and get it to you. Well, and we've got a ton of inventory, and we're bringing it to the Western Hunting Conservation Expo, too, and might point that out. We always do, and we're stocking up. In fact, Logan's office has kind of been hijacked. Logan, my storage unit? Yeah. Well, we moved Logan's office to be right in the middle of all of us. And then they fill it up with boxes so nobody can see or hear me. Well, we were used to having it being empty for a month or two after Josh left, so it kind of was by default being used that way. But it is going to be on the shelf here by Tuesday? Yeah, pretty much. We've given ourselves a deadline. Shot Show starts Tuesday, so I'm not sure, Bronson. We're going to have to ask. Soon.

We're going to have to ask. It'll be out soon, though. We're going to have to ask our boss. Yeah. Who's that? I don't know. Maybe Jana. Jana. She's already ticked. Getting ticked her by the day. She's not, actually, but she does crack the whip on us. Anyway, speaking of the Expo, Bronson, we've got the Expo coming up February 12th to the 15th. We'll definitely be there. I think our booth's number, what, 2744. 2974. Is that right? That sounds right. Yeah, that's pretty well. Or 2974. I don't know. Wow. Go to the corner. Go to the pinch point, just like a whitetail. When you're around the corner, we're right there. Yeah. That's how we've always described it to people. We'll probably be in a ground blind. Some sort. Yeah. Anyway, pretty excited about that. We get to meet a lot of you and talk hunting and learn a lot, you know, and then also just, you know, talk about application strategies.

We'll be selling optics as well there. And so, anyway, come by, say hi, and we'll go from there. Well, Kevin, we got Kevin Palmer here, Cedar City, Utah. Kevin, how are you? I'm doing great. He walked in three minutes before we're starting the podcast. You had no idea. We had no idea you were going to be on the podcast. You can't bring in dang near a 200-inch or whatever, 190-something. It doesn't really matter. It looks giant, 200, and fatty. Yeah. You can't bring a deer like that in and, I guess, not tell your story, right? We like stories. We don't have enough of them. We have people asking about having more and more stories. It's just really fun to live those moments, especially in these off seasons when everybody's traveling to and from work or just in the grind at the office, right? It just gives us something to look forward to. And here's something special.

You drew a tag and pretty incredible experience, right, on some of these 100-entry draw tags. Yeah. So I'm going to just, like, we're just going to let you talk about it for a second. Of course, we have so many questions. Who knows what they'll be? But we'll keep that ball rolling because we want to pull as much info out of you as we can. Okay. Yeah. I hadn't hunted muzzleloader for years. And so I just put in, drew a random tag, and this just couldn't have worked out better for me. It was just a super, super fun hunt. And so obviously had to get all the equipment and everything dialed in and blow the dust off. It's changed. Yeah. But the stuff I drug out of the closet was, you know, it was old. Did you at least have fresh powder? Yeah. No, I didn't. Round balls? I, that's, I, there were some round balls in there. Yeah. Yeah. And so. I remember we used to put those patches, Bronson.

You guys remember these? Oh, yeah. The patches. And, like, if the grain was going this way, you always put the grain, like, the certain same way. You could just rip, bite it off, and rip a piece off with your mouth. Yeah. Yeah, you would, but then the grain, you'd want it, the grain. And I don't know. Who knows? They didn't have those, the pre, and then they went to the pre-circle ones that had a little bit of boar butter lube on them. Those were nice, because you could at least look at them. They were nice. Anyway. All right. So anyway. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, I decided, well, I've got to upgrade a little bit, and you was talking about optics here, so I picked up that RDS. Oh, yeah. The Lube. The One Power. Yeah. The One Power. Yeah, the one we sold you, right? You came in. I always get nervous about selling to our friends, like, really close friends. We use them.

We use the same thing, Jason. I want everything to be perfect. We use the same thing. I know. I know. We use them. I know. Which is why it was no problem, right? Yeah. We really, it's really easy to sell the stuff you use yourself. But still, like, you're going to put this gun together, and not all the guns shoot the same, right? And so you're going to go out and develop a load, and so you had a lot on your plate on doing all this. Yeah, I did. Yeah. And anyway, my eyes are not, I'm getting older, you know, just like you guys, getting a little. You got a lot. You're getting a little longer than the tooth as well. I don't think you have any brown hair right now. I have none. Zero. And Bronson doesn't have any hair, so you're ahead of him. Well. And I've got gray mixed with brown. Of course, I don't know, Logan, do you have? I'm looking good. Oh, come on. I'm young, in my prime. Whatever.

Oh, geez. Whatever. We'll come back to that in a while. We've got some questions for you later. But anyway, how did you, when you were shooting this gun, Kevin, like, tell us about, like, were you surprised that even with the one power, was you shooting all right? Like, the range, I'm talking preparatory for the hunt. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, these new rifles are just awesome. And so, at the range, I get it dialed in. Was it a CVA? It was a CVA, Acura, the MRX. Kind of a very affordable. Very affordable. We're talking like five, six hundred bucks. Yeah. Very affordable. Yeah. And this thing come with a threaded barrel, so first thing, or one of the first things, too, was to put a brake on it. Oh, they pound your shoulder. Yeah, they do. And those brakes are awesome, too. They just really. I sent you a link to an aftermarket brake, but you found your own, a different one. Yeah. I think.

I found one that was side ported. I wanted one side ported for shooting prone, you know. Like, for the dust, right? For the dust. Doesn't go down. Yep. Doesn't go down. All out the side. And it's self-timed and everything. So, that worked out good. Went to the range and got dialed in at a hundred. And then I start stretching it out. And really, I was surprised that there was very little elevation change to 200 yards. One and two, you're not holding much, huh? Actually, I was pretty dang close. I didn't mess with it. Isn't that amazing? Were you shooting a 50 or a 45? A 50. Okay. And so, do you mind sharing the load? Not at all. No. So, what did you end up with? Because a lot of people are wondering, like, where to start. So, we all go Google it, right? Yeah. What did you end up with? So, obviously, Blackhorn. That's the powder, right? The go-to. The go-to.

They don't even make black powder anymore, do they? I don't know. I hate Pirate X, but triple FG. Yeah. That's for the Unabomber and people like that. All right. Yeah. So, I started out at 77 grains, and I worked up. Of weighted? Of weighted. Yeah. So, you would weigh it on a scale. Yep. This isn't like in a sight gauge. It's not. I was out there on the tailgate of my truck with the Hornady, you know, the lock and load. Weighing it. Weighing it. The downside is weighing them. You kind of got to get a bunch of them weighed at home before you hit the field. By the vial. You hit the field. Yeah. So, I was out there at the range doing all that. And 82 grains. That's what I. So, 82? 82. I'm trying to remember what max is on it. It's like 87 or something like that. Well, it's like 84. It's like 84. It's like 84. 80-something is max, they say. Mine's an LRX, but MRX probably. Don't. Nobody.

Don't quote me. Use your. Don't blow your barrel up. Use your rifles. Use your manual. That's gospel. So, what did you mean about 77? You started at 77? Yeah, I started at 77 and worked up. Okay. I was just trying. Now, I didn't have a chrono. So, I don't know where. You're just trying to see where. I don't know where my speed was. But I just started working up and that's where I ended up. I felt like I was. Grouping good. Grouping good. I had holes touching and I just left. At 100? At 100. Yeah. Okay. Then. So, normally guys are going to want to use the chrono. Put it into their range finder and dial. Because you can dial that scope. Yep. But you're not. It's not enough difference. So, 1 to 200. What's the difference? Why die? 200. Yeah. Right? Yep. And then that one minute dot after 200. It starts getting big. Starburst-y and big and big. Starburst-y. Starburst-y. So, I ended up at 280.

That's where I land. 200. 280 yards. That was where you self-covered. That was your killable difference? I felt good at 280. And so, where did you aim at 280? Did you dial for 280? I dialed for 280. How did you? Seven minutes. I cranked it up. Just with his load. There you go. You just ground truth. I ground truth. You didn't throw it into your rangefinder. I used no calculators. Nope. I just. What would you dial it? Move to 280 and see how many MOA you have to dial to be dead on there. Let's say you're at 230. What would you dial? 230. Maybe five. Pretty close. I don't. But did you have a little. I had a chart. You did. I don't have it with me. So, I can't. But you did have a chart. Yeah. Yeah. And you would shoot at it like 225, 250, 275. Right. Right. Right. Right. Okay. All right. So, then. Keep. Keep. So, you've got it out there to 280. How. What did your group look like at 280?

It was crazy. I was like a three inch. You know. I mean. I was. Yeah. Or less. And so, I was. I was happy. Three inches. Yeah. I was. That's a. That's crazy. And this is prone. You know. You've got better eyes than me. That's all. I'm going to admit that. I think. I think it was just the right day. You know. Yeah. But. But I felt good about it. Devin just came in the room. Devin? Oh, jeez. You had a phone call. Welcome to the party. We got. Didn't think you'd be doing this. Did you, Cam? No. Bringing that thing in today. How about that buck? I'll be careful coming in here on Friday afternoons. Yeah. You can't bring a big deer. What a stud buck, man. Heavy buck. Wow.

All right. So we're. You're dialed in. You're at 200. You can shoot from zero to 280. To 280. And that's where I left it. I didn't. You know. Like you said. I don't need to push it too much. Starburst. You don't need to push it. Did you have a backup muzzler? I did. What did you? It was. It was the old school. It was a Thompson Encore. Yeah. Open sight. Open sight. Yeah. Just a ramrod. You forget to take it out and you shoot it out there. I shot the ramrod out of that gun. I literally have. And I'm lucky to be here talking about it today. I know guys that have done that. They do it. And they don't pull it out and they just shoot. I did. So you shot the ramrod. It was a full load with the. Forgot to. Slug. Pull it out. Pull it. That gun was so tight loading and everything. I had to put a mark on that ramrod. You know. To know. When it's full. When it was. Seated. Seated. Yeah. And anyway.

I got caught up in the moment and left it in the barrel one time. And that thing. But you found it. Found the ram. Pieces of it. Yeah. Did it blow the barrel apart? No. It did not blow the barrel. I had a friend walked up. He was hunting in Colorado. And shot a buck and went up to finish it. And shot him with the ramrod. What? Wow. Yeah. I mean there's a sabbat. Did it blow the barrel apart? Well. I wonder if. Just shattered the ramrod. How in the heck? Because it's got to be really slow coming out of there. And that powder burning. Yeah. I'm sweating the bullets. But you know when you touch it off. That thing. It comes back. And the hammer of that rifle about. Yeah. Knocked you out. It about took me out. Yeah. But anyway. You had that gun as a backup. But hey. Didn't have to use it. Time to go hunt. Use the new one. Yeah. You got a new gun. New scope. Yep. You're ready. You're ready.

Okay. So now what? You're headed. I mean. Headed hunting. You had to guide a little bit. But then you chose this season because it was late. It was after everything. Perfect timing for. You know. All the other hunts are done for me. And so. Yeah. It worked out perfect. And I'm just. Okay. So then you're headed over there. You can't really scout the rut or the migration or winter range. True. Right? Yeah. No. We're going to start. Hoping for weather and rut. Yep. Show up. Show up four days early. And then you had a pretty good idea of the migration. Yeah. But it's interesting. When you're hunting migration. You might. You might think you have a buck locked down. Even though he's on does. See him one day. Don't see him the next. Right. And I found that out real quick. Yeah. Over there. So. So I think. Not to. But you. You sent me a little video clip.

Like you were in the hunt in the heat of battle. And you're like. What do you think? Right? Yeah. It was a really big four point. It was a big four point. And I know that buck was 30 inches all day long. Yeah. But. And I think we all called it. And you were. Anyway. Yeah. We kind of pushed you to pass. But it was. And I'm glad. Those are hard things to do too. Yeah. Yeah. But you were glad because you killed a giant. Those are hard things to do. You know. Deciding when to pass and when not. Yeah. I really didn't feel bad about passing him. But. If that buck would have showed up. You know. The next day or something. He may not have got the same pass. You know. It was. He was at right there with that caliber buck. But. I'm glad I did. Glad I talked to you. And. Well. It's not just that. It's just more or less. Making sure that you're not crazy. Yeah. You know.

Like am I seeing what I'm seeing. And we all thought. Right. Like high 80s. Yeah. Yeah. High 80s. You know. Probably. But good looking boxy sucker. Like really good looking. Right. All right. So anyway. I can tell you're thinking. You're wondering if you made a mistake. Like. Because you don't know what they are until you put your hands on them. Yeah. You don't. And. And you know. It's just. You. You.

I. It. To me. It's not all about the score. And you know. And all those things. And so it's. But I. I didn't want to end the hunt either. I wanted to enjoy it. And just. Give the hunt justice. Exactly. Even though you do it in a random draw. It's a gift. You still want to. It's a gift. Give it. You know. Shoot one or two days into. I can't remember how many days it was. 10 or 12. I don't know how long. It was nine. Nine. And you know. You look at the weather forecast. And it looks good. There's nothing that way. That you know. I felt pressure on. And so. Yeah. Glad I held out. Well. Pretty awesome. All right. So. You keep. You keep after. Well. You took a little break. Yes I did. Yeah. I took one day. And then. Drove all night. Got back. And. Glassed this buck up late in the afternoon. And. Um. Decided. He was a buck. So I made. Started making the move. I had to cross the canyon. And.

And. Then. All of a sudden. I felt a little pressure from maybe another hunter. Um. Okay. Is this what you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I don't know. I don't know. It's just the first time I've really. Well. You know. I. I heard it. I heard a truck near. And it sounded like it was coming down a road that. That was close to me. And I felt like. In this terrain. If they glass that buck up. They're going to be on him. You know. And so. Nobody's passing this. Nobody's going to pass it. So. I just. I. In the heat of the moment. I. I decided to take a. 310 yard shot. Oh. Exceeded your. I exceeded my 2. And that's only. What? 30 yards. 30 yards. 30 yards. But you probably have to dial another five. I don't know. It's starting to taper hard. They stack up pretty quick. They do. That dial starts turning. It starts spinning. Yeah. And so. And you're. You're thinking. You hear a truck.

Could you see it or just hear it? I've never seen it. I could just hear it. But you knew it was. You knew the road it was on. Yeah. And you knew. You thought maybe they can see the deer from there. Even though you can't see the deer. I really did think they could see it. At that point. So you're like. All right. I'm set up. I've been waiting for the deer to come closer. Yeah. Or you. Or get. Or you make a move to you to get closer. And you're like. This may be it. And if they spook this. And you're thinking. There's no way they can see me. Yeah. They couldn't see the truck. There's no. You're in position. But. You're like. I got this. I might as well send one. Yeah. Send one. And anyway. I just overcooked it a little bit. On the dial. I'm going to be totally honest. And I'm glad. But hey. 310. I love honesty. One power. I love honesty in these podcasts. Yeah. Yeah. They're great stories.

Okay. Well. You won't have a guy like me. Come into your office. Oh yeah. Get on one of these things again. Probably. Anyway. So you shot. And what happened? I shot. And I knew I shot over him. And nothing. These deer. Didn't even react. Didn't even react. No. No ears. No. The does. The bucks. There was a couple other bucks in the area. And so I just knew at that time. I just got to. Buckle down. Buckle down. And hoof over. Get closer. Get closer. Yeah. So anyway. Get to 130 yards. And end of story. Really? One shot. One shot. You had reloaded. I had reloaded. I hate reloading. Pulled the ramrod out. In the heat of battle. I hate reloading musloaters. Yeah. You'd wonder if you're going to spill five or ten grains of powder. You are. You are. There are so many things. You never get the exact. What really bothers me. And this is dumb. Because it never probably happens ever.

But when it's got a little bit of misty. You know. Like smoke coming out. When you pour one down. You think it's going to light. Oh yeah. I don't know why it bothers me. A piece of powder burning on the inside of the barrel. And it's not going to light up. It's never happened. I don't know why it bothers me. Or even just a hot barrel. You think. Could I smoke a hot barrel down there just ignite? When you're always. Yeah. Well the old school. We used to just blow down them. Yeah. You know. With the side locks. Yeah. Blow it. Blow it. This thing's got this big old muzzle brake on it. You blow it. You're not going to do anything. Well that's the other thing about a muzzle brake. So you need the long funnel. Right. That's a long funnel. I mean it's a little more of a process. Right. Right. Anyway it's just. Now you've got more things going on. So. Yeah. All right.

So you go over there and you're just smashing. I smashed it. Where's this truck? What do you mean? Whatever happened to the truck? So come to find out. Yeah. The truck ended up being the game warden. This was over at one of your spotters. I can't remember. Family member. I can't remember. Yeah. Family. My son-in-law. My son-in-law Jarek. He was talking to him. Yeah. He was talking to him. Is it just me or does he always think about all the stamps and licenses and. Right. Just stuff. Well Utah luckily. I mean. There's not much here. I mean if you draw an archery tag you go archery hunting. You don't need to buy a stamp afterwards. You get a muzzleloader tag you don't have to get a muzzleloader tag. Is there a Snickers wrapper at the base of your truck out on the ground? Exactly. I don't know. He just kind of. All the little things like out of like. All that. But. Yeah. And he was awesome.

He was. He was working some. Totally different case. Totally different case. And on to other things. And when he seen what we were doing. And he actually glassed up the buck. My son-in-law showed it. Oh so he could see it. So he could see it. And he says yeah. You know you need to. This buck. Shoot this buck. And then he just asked a couple of questions. And we realized. Made sure who you were. Son-in-law gave him all their. Yeah. They have a roster of the tag holders. And they see. Oh yeah. That's you. Okay. I've checked you. Yeah. You got a tag. Yeah. And then. And then I totally expected him to hang around. And maybe check things out. Because dark was only an hour away. You know. I mean. Yeah. We only had an hour of daylight. But didn't hear or see from him again. Well. And. They knew you had a tag. And if you. Yeah. They're like. Yeah. Who smokes that buck. He's going to tag it.

He's going to want to take it home. Oh yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. I mean. The only thing he's wondering is how much meat you're going to take. Yeah. But really. I mean. There's nothing. Who knows. But at that point. You're going to be. He saw the birds the next day. Went over there. It's gone. So. Very good. Yeah. So. At the end of the day. What was this case about? Did he tell you. Or did you have any idea? Apparently there was a poaching case. In the. Close. And. Somebody straight up. Look at some other deer. Smashed a deer. Yeah. And so he was just finalizing that. And just kind of making a loop through the area. And. It just happened to be where we were at. Yeah. So. So in the day. You're. I mean. Obviously. Can't be happier. Really. Yeah. Just totally stoked. Yeah. It was. Yeah. It can be happier. Yeah. He's a looker. Got one of those five. Five inch. Inner. Inner. In lines.

It kind of tilled it in off the G2. Yeah. It's kind of in the. Like a tripod. I was just looking for something special. And that set this buck off. It's heavy. It's heavy. I mean. How many deer. So. You said something like. I quit counting at 120 bucks. 120. The one day. I just quit counting. One day. In one day. That was one day. No kidding. Bucks. Yeah. Yeah. Bucks. Bucks. Bucks. Bucks. Bucks. B-U-C-K-S. I can't get over it. Bucks. Bucks. Logan. We got to pull it. Where's that video clip? We got to pull that video. It's on our YouTube. It is? Yeah. Yeah. Pull that. Pull that. We will. We'll put it in the podcast. Everybody knows. I mean. Jeez. Beaver mount. Wow. Yeah. Back in the day. In the good days. That's crazy. But rut and migration. You know. It's going to happen. You get good years and time it right. And other years seem tougher. But that was a good year to have a tag. Yeah.

What are you putting in for antelope or elk this year? Not antelope. It'll be elk. Okay. So there you go. It'll be elk. Yeah. Good. Good. Just checking. That's pretty awesome. I'm glad you brought him in. Yeah. The best buck you saw. He was the best buck. Yeah. Yeah. And just thrilled to be able to kill. How many days did you. Where it was. So I killed him on day five. Okay. Of the hunt. Yeah. Was everybody gone home pretty much? You know. It did appear that way. Either that or they took a short break too. You killed him. It could have been. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I never talked to any of the other tag holders or any other hunters. Yeah. I don't. Yeah. Pretty awesome. Man. It's awesome. Yeah. It is. You just don't see those very often anymore. No. I don't see. Yeah. Awesome buck. Big old melted bladey eye guard. We get a picture of it coming out in this next magazine. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. We do. In fact, you were going to at some point write a story, right? Yeah. Some point. Yeah. We still snuck a picture in there in the Utah issue though. Yeah. Can't let one of those not get used. Yeah. It's good. Yeah. All right. Okay. Do you have any other words of wisdom for people out there, Kevin? Well, you can't draw if you don't put in. Okay. And, you know, so, and I guess don't be afraid of drawing a random tag. Don't think you're out of the, you know, it can happen. Odds are terrible. Odds are terrible. Can't win if you're not in. But, and I'm just glad that, you know, it worked out for me. I didn't have to worry about any other conflicting schedules. That's what I love about some of these hunts. It's just the low tag numbers. It was just super fun to go. So, and it's good timing for you. Yeah. And beautiful country. Yeah.

My brother-in-law, Brett Swapp, was able to come and he was a huge help on the glass. And, you know, we just, my son-in-law came down and we just had a fun time. That's awesome. All right. Okay. Well, we don't want to take up your whole day. You're welcome to. Thanks for bringing it by. Okay. That was an added bonus today. Yeah. It's awesome. This is perfect timing, right? As we're starting the podcast, we have a big deer walk. It's actually the second big deer of the day. So, anyway. It's good to see you. Both of us are heavy. Yeah. All right. Okay. Thanks for everything. Thanks, Kevin. Appreciate it. Thanks, guys. All right. So, all right. Kevin's just an awesome guy. I'm so glad he came in, killed a great buck. He's deserving. You know what I'm saying? He's a great guy. He's a guy that draws a random tag like that. Just awesome. Good unannounced little podcast story. That's great.

It's awesome. All right. Let's do a few questions, Bronson. We'll do that. Might make another call to somebody in a minute. But, hey. Okay. Calvin asks, how big of an elk, in your opinion, is equivalent to a 265-inch mule deer? Jeez. I know what I'm thinking. Anything over 400. You got a number? Anything over 400. Go kill one. It's really hard. What do you think, Devin? To compare, I don't think it exists, in my opinion. Like 425. I was thinking like 435, 440 plus. Okay, Devin. Yes. Or you could say, I hate elk. Nothing compares. Like, if I could see elk. Let's just be objective. Yeah. What would you put? I would say, I would say. I'm saying 430 plus. 430. I agree with that. Jeez. I'm with you. Because I think there's more 420 bulls than there's 265 bucks killed every year. No question. Yes. So you can't say 410 or 20. That's a good point. It's too low. That's a good point.

Don't you think? That's a good point. Really hard. But go try to find a 265 buck. And then, you know. Go try to find a 430 bull, too. They're both like unicorns. 440s. 430, 40. Yeah. Okay. That's our. Tejon or San Carlos on wet years or something. Sticking to it. Okay. You can't even go. Let's just say, you know, like Tejon Ranch or like San Carlos or something like that. But then where can you kill a 265 low fence? No. Yeah. Now, you know, there's 265, two 300 inch plus bucks out on the gram. They're just not low fence. They're just, you know, very controlled environments. And so where can you go kill a 265 buck? Name one that was killed on a governor tag. I guess Nevada a couple years ago. Some governor tags. But most of them that happen are accidents, in my opinion. Yeah. They are just the numbers game and someone kills a giant buck. Yeah. That's what I mean. Yeah.

They're not a planned, predetermined, I followed the deer. Now, if you got it on private. Like a governor tag in Colorado, you know, I mean, you know. It's a little different. If you're hunting, you know, eastern Colorado or Kansas or somewhere where you control all the private and you can maybe let one grow up. But I'm talking like most that happen out in the western states are, boom, face to face, I just smashed a giant buck. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And occasionally a governor. So a couple of these guys, governor buck, occasional like Leo Goss has done great. Like Clay Hill and those guys in Colorado, just unbelievable bucks. And then Nevada got, you know, threw an unbelievable buck and has done a couple of those. Arizona used to. It feels like five years ago. The strip on the great, great moisture years. The last giant, giant in New Mexico was 2017. You know, Tyler Wayman's buck.

I mean, there's so, but man, those are hard. All right. Let's move along. Okay. Another one. What do you feel, Jackson asks, what do you think Utah will do with the data gathered from the new required general season deer harvest surveys? Well, did you, he raised his hand. I was going to. Yeah. Logan. Do you have inside info? No. He's just got a heavy heart, heavy heart opinion. Increased tags. So what would they need to see by that? See that actually. People were happy. We can give more tags and harvest goes down. And when that does, we can give more tags. How do you think that's going to happen? I don't know. They just, I don't know. The thing is. If they see a slight amount of happiness, they're going to increase tags. Is that what you, like satisfaction means increase tags until we get to that fine line. Yep.

My only thing with this is it's like, you know, you have, you have everyone that has to do this. Why not ask one or two more, more specific questions? Yeah. What would you like to know? Hunter pressure. Hunter pressure. How, you know, you could separate quality of deer seen, hunter pressure experience, just two, three more questions. A little bit more. To get a little bit better of an idea. Because they say nobody ever takes surveys. There's your chance. That's just my. Well, part of it. Part of it. Yeah, it's mandatory. So. But when they were doing voluntary surveys, they'd send out 2,000 of them. I never really got them. Or you get a random call and it's a random, random response. No. It's just a random response. If you called the number and you felt like talking, we all knew the number when you got eight. You knew who it was. Yeah. I got a lot of time right now. Yeah. Yeah.

Especially Colorado. Might be an up and game survey. They'll call it 930, 940 at night. They're no joke. I think that's outsourced. Yeah. So I'm hopeful. I'm optimistic that it will lead to better decisions. I guess it just depends. I guess, yeah. But then when the data tells you something overwhelmingly, I guess. What blows my mind is the interpretation of these surveys. It's like, we've seen it. We've watched the meetings. You watch the meetings or you're in them or whatever. And they're like, well, and they're like, well, let me summarize the 80 people that contacted us through, you know, email or on this survey. Other than the people in the room. Let me just summarize these 80 people. And they'll say, about X amount said this and about X amount said that. In about, what, one and a half minutes, a minute. You know what I mean?

And it's just the interpreting of those surveys is kind of wild. Because what you would interpret, when you read somebody's survey, like you would interpret something totally different than the DWR. Or a DWR representative. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah, exactly. I think also one of the things that's going to be most useful for is the new restricted weapons units. It would be pretty useful to have harvest surveys info on that to help back up. Well, overall, it's going to be more accurate, right? Yeah. What's that? It's because it's required. Knowing what has been harvested. Yes. That's good. You know what I mean? We're already gone. We're on a positive. Yeah, it's never been more accurate than it can be right now. We're on a positive trajectory about having surveys, Matt, being mandatory anyway. Yeah. Just also be careful. We get one year.

Let's let maybe two or three of a brand new sampling procedure be in place before we start making monumental additions or things like that. Bronson, it does bring up a little. It's restricted weapons. It's funny that we talk. Name another place that has open sight rifles. It's mandatory open sight rifle hunt. There's not. There's TRAD bows in Oregon, Jason. Okay. We saw them this week. We saw them this week. TRAD bows. And that got us talking about this. Is there another bear? Heritage muzzleloader in Montana. Okay. Okay. But muzzleloaders are a little different because there are a lot of those northwest states. As far as a rifle? Have a northwest kit. Have those. Open ignition. Have had some of those. Call them primitive. Exposed number 11 or muskets. But yeah, I don't know of one. A centerfire rifle. You better have a bear. A bear rifle. I can't think of one. Which, Logan? You have one.

I got one. 360 buck hammer. Yeah. Did you shoot it? Yes. You like it? I love it. You hunted with it, right? Where did you get that from? I think it's so sweet. You hunted with it. Noah guy. Well, I mean, you know, if anybody needs one, we can get you one. You don't have to. It's sweet. We'll sell you one. I mean, it's great. No, it's good. Hey, Devin, we're not cutting that. Dude, we'd sell them all day long. I know. All right. Well, anyway, but it's fun. Devin, you like this kind of crap. You know you do. Selling guns. Yeah. Any and all kinds. Functional and proper guns. So how far out did you shoot it, Logan? I could shoot. I shot out to 200 yards. I mean, it's got a big old horseshoe iron sight post on the front. Shoot good? Oh, shoot's great. But, you know, a deer on one of those posts at 200 yards, it's covering up. I used to use the top of the post. The top of the post.

I did a dap of wide out on top of it. I don't know. I don't know that I'd be comfortable shooting that far on a live animal. But I thought you said you were in your prime. I am in my prime, but my prime is also, like, you know, very reasonable. I mean, Adam and I can see 200. I can see 200. I'd like to get you guys out there on this open sight hunt. You know what? No problem. We're all drawn, and we'll see what happens. Plug yours and slap the trigger. No old man readers for you guys either. Well, that only helps you in close quarters. But we can get that restriction, you know, put through, but we can't do four-pointer better like over here. Like, it seems like four-pointer better would be easy. It's going to make you wonder in some of those units, and this is a truly valid question, and it's not measurable.

But the units that have gone to that, which there's in southern Utah, I think there's two, and there's another one up north. I think it's cash. On the restricted weapons. Is, okay, so harvest success comes down. Let's say it does. You would think it would have to. That's a much less effective weapon than any magnified skull. They say wazoo muzzle orders, but there's no difference between wazoo muzzle orders and restricted muzzle orders. Yeah, but we're talking open sight rifle hunt for everybody. So let's say it should come down, but here's another. How many people are slapping the trigger bucks? How many more deer maybe get shot and wounded and you lose? And this is not quantifiable. I know it's speculation. Other than they ask that question usually. How many did you wound? Who's proud to say, yeah, I wounded three on the survey? Nobody. So are you insinuating that people lie?

Well, more people, just like when you kill a big bull, you're more apt to turn the tooth in, because I want to know how old this bull is. Exactly. You shoot a three-year-old five by six, nothing wrong with it. That's what they have in Arizona. But you know he's a young bull. And that's one of the complaints of the guys. You don't need to send the tooth in. That's one of the complaints of the guys down there is like, we have this average age of what we're shooting for, but what does that mean? It's not a mandatory send in every tooth. You're probably just getting the old bulls. You're just getting the old ones, because guys really want to know. I contend that a little bit in some of our Utah units. When you kill an old bull, you want to know. If you kill a little bull, you're like, I don't know. I really don't want to know. It's a four-year-old. I burned 26 points on this.

But anyway, we're digressing. But on that rifle, interesting, lower harvest rates, but are you killing fewer deer, really? No. I don't know. I contend you may not be killing fewer deer if you're wounded more because less effective muzzleloaders and rifles out there splatter and stuff. It's one thing to have a less effective muzzleloader, but like a centerfire cartridge. When people have their knobs that they've set on in the rifle hunts for generations. And when deer move through the timber, they're going to shoot out with an open sight gun just like they did their scope driver. You know, that brings up deer drives and all kinds of fun discussions. I would love. How often, Logan, are you the driver guy? For like on a hunt? On a deer drive. Have you been the driver many times, the pusher? Usually. Okay. When do you – I'm trying – I think I was probably 25 or so before I got to sit.

Before I got to sit. Before I got to sit. Well, I used to be like, you know, 12 to 14, you're the sitter and your dad wants you to kill. And then all of a sudden you get your own truck and you start working and all of a sudden your dad is the sitter. Yeah, dad's the sitter. I love it. Yeah. Well, speaking of 400-inch bulls, I wonder if we shouldn't call that Dusty John. He killed an absolute giant bull. Yeah, another Utah animal, I should say. And we've got that story coming out here this weekend. Yeah, that one's actually a picture and story in there. Let's give him a call. Yeah. Killed a giant, kind of an odd season. Let's give him a holler. Let's give him a holler. Jason, what's up? What are you doing today? Oh, just running around. How's it going, Dusty? Good. It's Adam. It's me, Jason, Logan. Thought we'd talk a big bull story if you got a minute.

Yeah, we want to hear about somebody that killed a 400-incher. Jeez Louise. We haven't. We want to. I guess it probably all depends on who you have scored at this point. I don't know. Really? Yours hit 400 by multiple people. Is it? Yeah. Yeah, it's right there on that edge. Is it? It teeter-totters, I guess. No, I mean, it's 403, 400. Depends on who scores. Yeah. 400. Change that? Yeah. Don't let Jeff score it. He'll probably beat you up. No, I'll score a little bit. He don't want you to tip the scales at 400. He's taking a little credit for this bull, so he's pushing it over the edge. Yeah, I kind of read your story today. Let's clear that up. We're going to go to print. But let's back it up a little bit and find out how this happened. I think you had a ton of points, didn't you? A ton of points. And by the way, he's not even here, so let's hear the truth. Yeah, for real. Yeah, right?

No. Don't hold back. Yeah. No, I had 24 points, so it was a bunch of points, yeah. I mean, a bunch for me. I mean, I've been putting in it throughout since I was like 18. It feels like forever, you know? Yeah. So, anyway. But, yeah, just one story. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I mean, start to finish. Like, I know you spent some time up there, but then, you know, you kind of, with everything and all of us, there's certain seasons we really want, but then reality sets in. I can't get them. It's just not possible. Yeah, and the early rifle season got cut away to almost no tags on these ones anymore. Five-day hunts on top of it. Five-day hunt, and you're like, is that really worth it? And then you got the muzzleloader, and then the scopes get taken off of those, so you're like, oh, do I want that, or should I just stick to mid? Yeah. Multiple power scope anyway. Yeah.

Yeah, and then do I do a mid-rifle or a late? Mid or late. And so, anyway, all these things. So, how did you process that? I mean, all that's exactly right. And then we were kind of looking at it all, and we knew we wanted to, I mean, I knew I wanted to burn the points. You know, you guys harp on it. It's like, hey, spend your points, because you don't know what the year's going to be like when you actually go hot. And this was one of those years, too, that it was really weird. It was super hot and not a lot of moisture, and so it got down to it. I got worried. But, yeah, I knew I wanted to spend the points, you know, burn the points, and it was just trying to line up the schedule of life, which is usually the hardest part, you know. Both my boys play football, and I coach both their teams. And so, the fall is like the worst time for me, so it's super busy.

But, you know, looking at the hunt dates and looking at the schedule of football, it just so happened that the championship game I knew was going to be on the opening day of the late rifle for elk. And so, I'm like, well, there's a possibility he, you know, either boy's not going to make the championship, so that opening day would be fine. And usually, it goes clear past it. Usually, it's two weeks after. So, I thought, well, this is the year that I'm going to have to do it. You'd only miss one day if they even make it there. Yes, opening morning, you know, usually the games are in the morning. So, anyway, I'm like, all right, let's go for it. And so, I had more points than what I needed to draw that late, but you're right. I mean, the reality sets in, and I've been applying for the best units this whole time and haven't gotten anything. And you want to kill.

You know, you're going to just lay around year after year after year. And I have a tendency to do that. Sometimes, we all do a little bit. We have it in our mind what we want. We're not, you know, and we're not flexible on that. But you being flexible turned out in your favor. I mean. Yeah, 100%. And I don't know. I even kind of got to the point where it's like, you know what? If I can just get something 350 plus, I will be stoked because I know it's not the best tag and it's not the best season dates. So, I kind of just settled with that, you know, kind of got into the, okay, I'm going to be okay with this. And that's really what we were going for at first. So, anyway, drew the tag, ended up, and I knew with the late season, the elk were not going to be in the same spot in the summer. And so, trail cameras and all that stuff, I was like, I don't know. Do I do it?

How much time do I put in in the summer? And then do I put in a bunch of time, you know, while everybody's running around up there and chasing bulls with, you know, the earlier season tags? And so, but it's funny, I just couldn't, I mean, you guys do the same. You just can't stay away from it. It was like one of those that I'm like, I got to be on the mountain. And as much as I could be on the mountain, I wanted to be on the mountain. So, it was funny. I would run up, I'd coach football and do all the things and have like three hours in a morning that I knew that I had time to run up there. I'd run up there and look around and do what I could. And then come back or learn the road or whatever. You get caught up like we all do. Even though at the end of the day, at the end of the day, it did probably help you, but it's hard to quantify how much good you're really doing. Yeah, absolutely.

And you sit there and you look at your wife and she's like, yeah, you're going up again. You're going to spend all the gas and all the time again, just to come back. And it's like, I need a new truck that gets better gas mileage. That's right. Yeah, let's just get a new truck.

But it's true. It's like, oh man, I couldn't stay away from it. So, anyway, dude, found some awesome spots. Great roads, great glassing points. Found some good bulls. Man, and I just kept getting text messages from all these other guys having these giants on trail cams. And so, I threw out some trail cams when I could. And anyway, got some decent bulls, but nothing like everybody else is getting. But it was just a time thing. It was tough. Tough to really put long days. I wanted to stay overnight, several days, and really put the, you know, find the good bulls. But it was also so hot. It's so thick up there. And they were buried. They didn't want to come out. Kind of makes you question if you've done the right thing when it's hard to find. Oh my gosh. It was crazy. And the amount of people that were running around on that mountain was insane.

Man, most of them are just recreators, not even hunters. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Or general deer, or whatever. Yes. Friends of friends of friends. I remember hiking clear back into this area thinking, I've got to be alone. And then all of a sudden, six guys on mountain bikes come flying through. And I'm like, oh my gosh. What is happening? Is there mountain bike trails that are no? Oh, yeah. All over. It's crazy. Yeah. So, anyway. But, yeah. Before season, put in a bunch of time. I didn't want to be up there running around and screwing things up for, you know, the rut hunters. And so, I kind of gave it a little break then. But after that, I went back up there. And, man, it was coming up dry. I had a buddy that told me that kind of where they'd killed some good bulls the year before. And went in that area. Kind of the wintering. Good bulls on which season? They had killed them in the late season.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. And so, we kind of went in that area. And there was nothing. Like, we came up with my dad and my brother were helping me, Jeff. And we saw one smaller bull, but it was dry. And according to this guy, it's like, oh, there's going to be bulls on every hillside. You just sit there in glass. And we didn't see anything. So, I was super discouraged. And it was hot, like I said. And so, I knew that nothing was coming out. And things could have still been up high. And so, we, the night before, well, went to the championship game. Of course, my boy made it to the championship game. So, I couldn't hunt that morning. And he got stomped, which was sad. So, I was pumped. But then went up there. And Jeff, he actually saw some elk from like five miles away, he said. And took some road, randomly got over to this certain area. And it was a certain area that I had pinned for him.

And he had, you know, he had talked about it a couple times. But ended up being that exact area where he saw those elk. And he just, they went in to a group of trees. And then came back out that same group of trees right when he was there. And saw this bull, the bull I ended up killing. And, yeah. He texted me. He's like, hey, found a bull that you might like. Like, he was totally nonchalant about it, which was so weird. And he's like, he's kind of weird. But I'm like, dude, I don't want to kill a weird bull. I want to kill a great bull. I don't want to kill a misfit. Oh, man. This is opening day? He found an opening day. This is opening day. The hunt's on. You're driving to the unit, basically, after football. Yeah. So I got done with football. And I'm throwing stuff in my truck. And then he sends me that. Or he calls me and tells me that. And I'm like, oh, my gosh.

So I start throwing stuff in. A little bit faster at that point. You know? Oh, yeah. To get up there. And on the way up, I got a picture of him. And, yeah, it was a good bull. I mean, he was just buried in trees the whole time. And so it was tough to really get, to really know how big he really was, you know? So. But got up there. And we kind of got in the area that he was in. Looked for him for probably about, you know, three or four hours. And came up dry. Ended up seeing another bull on another hillside. So we're like, okay, it's about ready to start getting dark. Are we going to go after him? And it was a good bull, too. But it wasn't going to work. He got bumped. And he was cruising. He was putting on the miles. And so, anyway, I started hearing some crashing just down kind of where we were looking. And I got looking in there and picked him out with one other bull.

And just in some thick, burnt trees. Were they bumped? Or were they just working through? No. No. They were just. Yep. Yep. It was just so thick. They couldn't. Like, I don't know how they move around in that stuff. It's pretty wild. With giant antlers. I was having a hard time walking through there, let alone, you know, these bulls. But he was with another bull. And it was clear that he was a lot bigger than the other bull. And, I mean, at that, you know, you get your gun on them. And everything starts flashing through your head. 25 years. Yes. It's opening day. And I've only been hunting for like four hours. And here I am. Yeah, let's drag this out to the last day. For real. And so, you know, my sheep hunt always comes back into my head where, man, we put in. And we put in. It was a 15-day hunt. We, on day 14, I finally killed. We put in like 130 miles. It was just a grind.

But I loved that hunt. Like, that was the one I always think about and look back on. Like, that was it. You know, that was the pinnacle of it. But to go up there and be four hours into it, opening night, and staring at a giant, I'm like, oh, man, am I really going to do it? But I even asked Jeff. I'm like, hey, dude, am I really going to shoot? Am I really doing this? He's like, well, up to you, you know. And it was so weird. Jeff is usually not like that. He's like, dude, kill that deer. Kill that elk. You know what I mean? And so, he was pretty chill. And I'm like, it made me question it even more. But looking at the size of kind of him next to that other bull. Hell. And he was about five. If he would have been by himself, like, it's hard when they've got a big body. It's so hard. Yeah. Yeah, it's so hard. And some of these bulls are just really compact.

And they look big, but they're really not, you know. So, I was worried about that, you know, the whole time or prior to it. But anyway, yeah, I'm like, nope, this is it. I'm doing it. And, yeah, just. So, you killed it? Let it rip. Yeah, let the shot off. How far? Pretty decent shot? I don't remember. Well, it was like 500 yards. Yeah. Or 490 or something like that. So, you got. So, when you walk up on him, like, I mean, he probably was piled up in timber. But when did you either, when you touched him or see him, when you're like, oh, wow, this thing's magnum. When did that hit you? So, it was so thick. And it was, by the time I'd hiked over there, Jeff had to look through his spot and scope and leave it right in the area because we couldn't see him. When he fell, we couldn't see him on the hillside. So, he left the spot and scope right there.

And it was getting, by the time I'd gotten over there and through the trees, it was so dark that he couldn't tell where I was without flashing my flashlight, my phone light. Anyway, so, got over there and he's like, it should be right there, dude. It should be right there. And like I said, it was just thick. I couldn't see anything. Finally, I walked up to him and his head was kind of tucked under a bunch of trees. And he had fallen into a, he was right below a root ball. So, he kind of was stuck in the hole of the root ball. And it wasn't until as soon as I pulled him out of there, I was like, oh, my gosh. This is. And I knew he was big. I knew I was hitting the mark and maybe even well over the mark that when I pulled the trigger. Yeah. Of what I wanted, you know, that 350, 360 range. And then, yeah, that was right then. I'm like, yeah. We outdid ourselves. This is special.

Yeah, this is something special. Yeah. I mean, his front end and thirds are, I mean, you get those six times alone. That's where score really gets big fast. Yeah. Your bull has that. What's crazy? I don't know anybody that knew where he rutted or where he was earlier. I haven't seen one pitch. You know, of all the bulls that they, man, I saw a lot of bulls that people were sending me with trail cameras or what they were seeing before. And you're right. I had never seen one. Yes. Yeah. And who knows? I mean, I'm not. He could have come from another unit. It's happened before. You know. Well, that's what they say. They say that. November. Yeah. Yeah. They could have. They'll bounce. So. I wonder if sheds are out there somewhere. Somewhere. Oh, I know. You probably ought to make a trip or two. Do you still have that vehicle that gets good gas mileage?

I've got to tell you a wife about that one. They usually shed where they winter, guy. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know if they were quite there yet. You know, like you said, it was so hot. So, I don't know. It probably shed. It was warm and dry last November. We had rain. We had no cold, really. Yeah. We had some rain. Yeah. Pretty awesome. Oh, he's awesome. It's awesome. Yeah. It was, you know, like I said, you look back at hunts and there's something to be said about the hunts that suck. You know, like it's a fun suck. That makes any sense. You know what I mean? Yeah, when he dies. When he dies. But you've got to take the gimmies. And this was, you know, I put in a bunch of time before. I don't know. I didn't know if it was going to be enough. So, I was sick. I was worried. But, man, it sure came out good. Pretty awesome. Pretty awesome. Was it a 7x6? I'm trying to remember. I know I had one extra 7x6 on the back end. Had one extra.

And then just, but basically, a giant 6x6 frame with one extra. Big heavy. Yeah. Exactly. Big giant front end. I mean, just giant front. Racks up a score. Yeah. Unbelievable. Bladed giant mass. Big old assorted thing. I mean, it's just a big bull. Yeah. Yeah. I need one. I need one. All right. Go get you one. All you got to do is just go get the hit one. All you got to do is draw a tag. And then, well, and then you got to go work a lot. Yeah. And then you got to go make it happen. And then you got to get really lucky. And coach football. If you would have had the early rifle, you wouldn't have killed a 400-inch. Probably not. Probably not. Mid-rifle. The hunt. The hunt. You thought you waited for 25 years. Well, I'm sure. You know? Yeah. It goes to show with, obviously, you put a lot of time in. You learned the mountain. You learned access. You learned trails. You learned glassy knobs.

You had FOMO. So, you know, when everybody's running trail cameras, you had a November season. You can't run cameras after July 31st. But you had FOMO. Yeah. So, you just had to run some cameras just because everybody else is getting pictures. I feel like I got to do it. And still, all those things still add up enough to kind of know enough about the unit. Maybe where you should be. You've networked enough with other hunters from the past. And where to maybe hopefully be. And it goes to show you on a less than optimal season, it can happen. Yeah. Yeah. You hunt your whole life maybe in a killable like that. Who knows? Yeah. Well, and I got to be honest. I mean, lucky. Boy, that's what I mean. I mean, that can happen, though. Yeah. That luck can happen. But, I mean, it's kind of like the buck we just had in here with Kevin, Jason. I mean, he draws a random tag and kills. Happens.

All intents per se, 200-inch buck with minimal deer points and a muzzleloader tag. And, I mean, this is less than optimal what you wait. Dusty waited 22 to 5 of those years. You know, waiting for an early hunt. And then he had to kind of switch gears when the riding's on the wall. But there's still good stuff to be had. I just like it gives you hope. Like, that's what you're talking about. You know, it's like you've got to be out there. You've got to make it happen. And then it's easy to say, oh, you know, Utah's hunting. And we say it, Bronson. There's more broken bulls in November. They don't give them a day break. They hunt them before the rut, during the rut, after the rut, late season, late archery, mid rifles. I mean, they're broken up. It's this and that and the other. But, man, they produced a number of good bulls this last year, actually.

Well, and it was, you know, some years we get a ton of snow and it's bitter cold. And it can be a miserable late hunt. And other years, this year was extreme. It's too hot. But you could hunt the whole mountain top to bottom on any unit in the state. You could hunt wherever you needed to go to find a bull. I mean, we had guys on beaver killing them, you know, 12,000 plus. And we get down in the mouth about even, say, drought years and stuff. But then we come up with big deer even, you know, once one, okay, or two here and there. But proves that it's, even during drought years, they do make a few. Nevada, they kill a deer over 240 inches down in the desert, like in desert type units. You know what I'm saying? And so I'm just saying, and it's easy for me to be like, there's nothing out there. Late hunt. You don't hunt elk in November. Yeah. You hunt them in September. That's right.

That's right. You hunt deer in November, and you hunt elk in September. I mean, that's what you do, right? But no, you go out and you hunt big bulls whenever you can get a tag. I mean, that's. Yeah. Anyway, good job. That's awesome. Love it. It causes a lot of conversations. It renews hope and energy for not having just the best season and the best year. I mean, Arizona, prime example. Look at our cover bull. It was one of the worst years in probably five plus years. And average was, well, they're saying, yeah, exactly. It's below average, and you're saying, well, it's okay. You still need a tag, and it's still okay, and it's still worth going, you know? And so, anyway, I don't know. Well, I'm looking at all, too, on what the season's going to be like. You know, you're putting in in February, February, March, and it's like, oh, I don't know. Is it going to be a good wet year?

Is it going to be, you know? Yeah, so. Pretty awesome. All right, guys. I don't know what you're going to do next. Actually, I don't even care. What are you putting in for? You need to just stay out of hunting for another year or two. Are you putting in for antelope or deer this year? Yeah. Oh, that's right. I got to. You know, I was one of those guys that the first three years that I could apply, I had three deer points, and then I switched halfway through. So, that's why it was even more painful. But I'm like, well, I could have next to max points, and I don't because I have three deer points. But you have a 400-incher. Yeah. Hey, there we go. And I have three deer points. And you got a jump start on deer. All right. And you've got general tags, you know, all along the way. So, whatever. Yeah. Well, thanks for taking the time to put a story together for us.

It's coming out in this February magazine. So, it's heading to the printer. So, thanks a lot for taking the time to put that together. Thanks for getting that in. No, thanks. Thanks, you guys. And thanks. I mean, I love the podcast and all the advice and being able to call you guys and go over everything. That was huge. It was a big help. It's awesome. So, anyway, bring that bull up by the office when you get there. Yeah, bring him up sometime. Yeah. Yep. Let's do it. Leave him here. All right. All right. Talk to you later. All right. Thanks, guys. See you. Bye. Bye. All right, Bronson. Pretty awesome. I like the stories. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah. I don't know. Logan, do you got anything for us before we wrap this thing up? I'm good. You had a heck of a week. You had a heck of a week. Oh, man. Helping people? Rescuing? Yes, I was busy. Are we going to bring up that? Generating karma.

Have you started an LLC yet? No, I shouldn't, but I'm thinking about getting a tow truck, a couple of guys, some chains. You know what's funny, Logan? How many dates did all of this generosity gain you?

Directly from the generosity, none, but... But from good karma? I think good karma came around. You think? Yeah. You think it is or it will? Hopefully continue to come around. All right. Well... Logan's out helping people with dead batteries and flat tires. Pulling somebody out of a ditch. Yeah. Well, Logan, don't sell your bag, bro. It'll happen. All right. Appreciate it, Gen Z Bronson. There we go. All right. Hang in there. Okay. Stick to it. Well, all right. Let's have a good weekend. Let's face it. If your goal is to kill big stuff, you need to draw quality tags. Quality tags are typically hard to draw. To increase your odds of drawing good tags, you need to apply in multiple states. That's where an Epic Outdoors membership can help. For only $150 a year, you get access to our consultants, our online tools, and to Epic approved outfitters and members-only optics discounts.

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