EP 44: Protecting our Gun Rights and Traditions with Jim Reardon of NRA

Don't ever take your gun rights for granted, because it can happen in a heartbeat. Here in the West, we're hunters. The gun owners are hunters, it seems like. The legislation was not presented for any debate on the floor. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter and Adam Bronson here with the Epic Outdoors podcast. Got a great guest here, actually in the studio with us here today is Jim Reardon, the National Rifle Association field rep for here in Utah. So we've visited with him a little bit over the course of a year now, and kind of excited to have him here in the studio with us. But before we get started, we do want to throw a little shout out out to Under Armour for sponsoring this Epic Outdoors podcast, as well as some of the different things we're doing here at Epic Outdoors with the magazine and whatnot. So anyway, we appreciate them, we appreciate their support and all that they do for us and some of the different projects we're working on. So anyway, well Jim, welcome to the studio over here with Adam and I.

It's great to be here. Thank you guys, and thanks to Under Armour. You betcha. So anyway, well, why don't you just tell us a little bit about yourself. I know we've got a great podcast lined up here today. We want to learn a lot about what the NRA is doing. The NRA has many different facets and a lot of different programs they're involved in. And so we might kind of rely on you a little bit to educate us and then how we can help you guys as well, which in turn helps us. So anyway, yeah, just introduce yourself and a little bit about your background. All right. I was actually born and raised in New York. We actually moved to Connecticut when I was about 12 years old and moved into the country. And I was in my element. I really, really loved the country and loved the outdoors. And when I wasn't playing sports in school, I was running into the woods or going fishing.

And my brother-in-law was the one that introduced me to hunting first time around. And where I grew up in Connecticut, we didn't have big game, of course. We had a lot of small game pheasants, rabbits, squirrels, those types of things. So that's how I kind of got my start in the hunting segment. And went off to college in New York. And after college, I moved back to New York from Connecticut. And that's when I started more big game hunting and hunting white-tailed deer.

Eventually, when they restocked the turkeys, I began turkey hunting. And just always loved the outdoors. And, you know, life got busy after college, you know, and ended up having a family and having a child. And ran my own business for 25 years. And always wanted to hunt the west. So about 15 years ago, I guess it was, I made my first trip out west to hunt. And just was hooked. You know, I've always loved the Rocky Mountains. And last year, I had the opportunity to move to Utah. And had the wisdom to start building points many years ago. So I'm in a great position being in the west now with some points saved up. And hopefully going to get some good tags here in the next few years. That's awesome. And so when you say you ran your own business for 25 years, I mean, is it something where you, like, you retired from it? Did you sell it? And what was it that you were doing?

Yeah, well, I started out in a landscaping business. And I was a landscape contractor doing maintenance and installation. And in the wintertime, of course, it was slow. And, you know, I'd plow a little bit of snow here and there. But, you know, back east, we didn't get a whole lot of snow. So I was always looking for something to do in the wintertime. And I went to work for these people that owned a flower shop. And I was doing deliveries for them. And they happened to want to retire. And it was a great business. And the time that I bought it, the company was about 90 years old. And very well established in the community. And ended up buying it from them when they retired. And I ran that for 15 years. And I decided that I wanted a little bit more freedom in my life. And decided to sell. And I had bought the real estate also. So in 2006, I ended up selling it. And I still wanted to work.

And I said, you know, if I'm going to continue to work, I want to get involved in something I'm really passionate about, which was the outdoors. So at that time, I went to work for Gander Mountain part-time. And one thing led to another. And I ended up moving up into management. And ended up working for them full-time. But did that for three and a half years. But I just really didn't like the corporate mentality. Retail and all that. Yeah. Tough, tough business. You know, it's all numbers-driven, bottom line. And I ended up doing that for three and a half years and left that. And I had a good friend. I was heavily involved with Friends of NRA back in New York as a volunteer on a local committee. And a good friend through that program. Jay Rusnock, who was the field rep for Upper New York, he says, Jim, why don't you apply for an NRA job? You'd be perfect for it. Yeah.

So one thing led to another. And I actually interviewed four times before they hired me. But I finally wore them down. So in February of 2014, I went to work for the National Rifle Association as the field rep for Area 3, which consisted of Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Lower New York, and New Jersey. Wow. Yeah. That's crazy. So you're there about a year or so only, it sounds like, before. Two and a half years. Two and a half, before you came out. The fellow that had the job here in Utah had resigned, and there was an opening. And they put the word out if anybody was interested in the transfer. And to be honest with you, I was very concerned because having started in Area 3, just two and a half years prior, I wasn't sure they would want to turn over the field rep position that quickly. The brand new guy. Yeah. Yeah, South West. And I was having great success back there.

2015 was a banner year. The most money that territory had ever raised. I actually was given an award as the Rookie of the Year for 2015. Wow. For the work that I had done with the committees back there. So I was kind of skeptical. I didn't know if you really wanted to leave either. Well. In a way, yeah. Because you're doing good. I knew I wanted to leave. Oh. I knew I wanted to leave. Welcome to the Rockies. But my boss actually said to me, you know, I sent him an email. I said, I'm definitely interested. And he sent me an email back. And he said, well, we want to make sure that's what you want to do. Because if you go to Utah and you don't like it, there's no place for you to go back to. And I said. Really? I said, don't worry about that. That's funny. I said, I'm going to love Utah. I think I'll manage in Utah. Yeah. And so that brings us to Utah. So you come out to Utah.

And they interviewed you four times. You passed. Everything was good. They probably did a background check. Oh, yeah. Making sure you could have a handgun or something. But anyway, came out to Utah and never looked back. You're happy here. I'm ecstatic to be here. You know, having come from the East and, you know, people ask me, who's Jim Reardon? And I say, well, Jim Reardon is a red, white, blue-blooded patriot. I believe in the United States of America. Love our flag. I strongly believe in the Constitution and the Second Amendment. And I was living in an area where they didn't hesitate to take your gun rights away from you. And after moving to Utah, my whole outlook on life has changed. Yeah. And I guess I just didn't realize how unhappy I was living back there. Yeah. Because of this restrictive government. And once I got out here, it was like a whole new start for me.

Well, what's crazy about it? Yeah. Yeah. And, Adam, I don't mean to cut you off. But what's crazy about it, Adam and I and you were talking, you know, right before we started this, is how crazy is it that there's different gun restrictions from state to state when we all live under the Second Amendment? I just don't understand that. Yeah. It's, it's, and, and, and I dare somebody try to take Utah's guns away. You know, even if it's a handgun or, or restrict us to a degree, like, it's just not going to happen. I just don't see it happening. I hate to say it that way because the minute you say it, it happens. Yeah. But, uh, what's it like? That's, it seems foreign to Adam and I. Wouldn't you think? Well, and, you know, what I'll say to you is no one should ever, I don't care where you live, don't ever take your gun rights for granted because it can happen in a heartbeat.

Uh, when the SAFE Act was passed after Sandy Hook, uh, you know, the government, governor was very motivated to put something in place, which he felt was going to be a good thing for everybody, uh, especially for him politically. So tell me, back it up a little, um, just for people that don't know what the SAFE Act is. Let's talk, tell, what is that? All right. Well, the SAFE Act was instituted in 2011 after Sandy Hook. And the SAFE Act outlawed, strictly outlawed, no more what they call assault rifles, what we know as AR-15 rifles. Yeah. Could be purchased in the state of New York anymore. If you owned one already, you had to register it with the state. Uh, they outlawed high capacity magazines. So if you had any, uh, for example, 30 round magazines for an AR-15, you either had to permanently alter them so that there were no more than 10 rounds. Or you had to sell them.

Uh, they also put in a magazine restriction for handguns of seven rounds, which ended up being overturned by the Western District Court in New York because it was ruled arbitrary and capricious because seven round magazines aren't readily available for most guns. That's right. All right. So they put in a background check system supposedly for ammunition, but they didn't have any way to do the background checks. Jeez. And they were hoping that the FBI was going to allow them to use the NIC system. And the FBI said, no, you can't use our NIC system. So now they have no way to do the background checks. So they said, okay, we're going to waive that requirement for now. But the legislation is still in the law. They say they are going to try and develop a system so that you have to pass a background check to buy ammunition. So, you know, very, very, very restrictive.

Well, here you've got to be, what, 18 out of them to buy or without your parents standing there. At least my kids can't buy, you know, ammunition. Well, there's no background check for ammo. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, it was a political move. Yeah. Well, and that's what happens. And we're not through in this country. Those Sandy Hook, terrible events like that, doesn't matter where you're at. The ones in Colorado in the movie theater, they'll happen everywhere and they will never stop. So you're probably safer to say keep vigilant and keep your guard up against, you know, anti-gun type movements because you're one or two bad instances like that away from the wrong congressman or what, trying to run something and ramrod it through. You know, the bad thing about the SAFE Act, too, was that, you know, this was kind of done in the dark of the night.

And the legislation was not presented for any debate on the floor. There was, they had an opportunity to comment, but there was no debate. It was enacted at what they call an act of necessity. So it didn't require the 72-hour period. Safe guards and all these other things. 72-hour period for review. And the legislators were presented, the SAFE Act, the legislation itself, 45 minutes before the vote. And that's how stuff happened. Yeah. So I'm interested. So you outlaid your background back there, but you talked about an immediate, because we're lifelong residents here of Utah. So we probably, I know we take a lot for granted. We take, you know, some of our parks and things like that that we live half an hour, an hour from, and all of the diversity and our way of life. So tell us about when you said, I thought, I found myself.

What did you mean when you came to Utah and got immersed by us Utahns? What did you mean by that? Well, as I said before, you know, I've always loved the Rocky Mountains. You know, when I started making the trips out here many years ago to go hunting, I just totally fell in love with the environment. I had been out here back in the 70s. I took a trip, and I toured all over the western United States, and I fell in love with it, you know. And I say that that Yellowstone ecosystem is my favorite place that I've ever been, you know. And always had that desire to be out here. So when the opportunity arose, I jumped on it. And now that I'm here, I mean, you know, I guess, you know, I was young. I was 21 years old back in the 70s when I came out here, and maybe I didn't. When you made your first trip. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I didn't realize as much the beauty of it all.

I mean, this Wasatch Front where I live up there around Salt Lake is just, you know, anywhere you are in the valley, that's what you're looking at constantly, you know. And it's just, it's breathtaking. A little bit of pollution. A little bit of pollution. Yeah. That's the downside. The only detriment. That's the downside. It's beautiful out here. There's no question about it. You know, I mean, I'm three miles from Big Cottonwood Canyon, and I'm five miles from Little Cottonwood Canyon. And, you know, the other day I went up into Big Cottonwood, and I shot my bow. So, you know, I mean, I can take a ride and be up there in the mountains in the clean air, and it's just, you know, it's spectacular. It really is, you know. There's a different set of freedoms. You know, we all have freedoms in this country, but you're right.

The ability to just go and do maybe the things that you've really been having to suppress living back east for so much the wide open, let me just go grab my gun, grab my bow, or just grab my hiking boots and go do. So, yeah. We talk about hunting, and, you know, I used to tell people all the time when I lived back east, I said, you know, I'm a two- to three-day drive if I want to go hunting for the type of hunting I want to do. Right now, I'm living in Utah. I'm the hub of the wheel. A one-day drive. Arizona. Arizona. That's right. Montana. Wyoming. And that's the way Adam and I feel. Within 12 hours, we could be, you know, Wyoming, Montana, New Mexico, anything. Any state we pretty much want to hunt. Yeah. You know, overnight, we usually do a one-trip, you know, overnight and start hunting in the morning. We can, you know, do all that. And so, anyway, it's awesome.

Jack, you are in the hub. Yeah. There's no question about that. Yeah. So, yeah, I can – and I know why you, you know, when you come out here in the 70s and the course makes kind of an impression on a guy. I don't know anybody that's like, man, I loved it back east. I can't wait to get back east. But having said that, we're surrounded by people in the west. It's just every time I go out there, all I see is just a, you know, wall of trees. And I can't – you just feel a little bit claustrophobic back there. But I'm sure, you know, you guys learn how to hunt and love everything, you know, wherever he's at. But, anyway, we do – it is beautiful out here. Like Adam said, we do take some of these parks. We get Zion National Park and some of these things right here in our backyard. And it's pretty beautiful. So – I've been here for a year. I've been to Zion four times already. Yeah. Yeah.

That's probably three more times than Adam and I have been here. You know, I've been to the park. So, anyway, we do take it for granted. But – and so, I know you say you've hunted quite a bit. I mean, have you elk hunted, deer hunted, and been through some of the different western states? Or give us a little bit of your hunting background. Elk hunted in Montana. I actually drew a unit 270 mule deer tag. Wow. Jeez. That's pretty rare. I don't know, around 2007, somewhere in there. Yeah. Good hunt? Yeah. I had a great time. Biggest bucks I saw were on private land, unfortunately. But, you know, I shot a 170 buck, which, you know, I was content with. I had actually – that year, I actually – that's when I still owned my business. And I had – I used to work seven days a week year-round. Wow. But when it came September and it was time when bugle season came in, I was in the west.

So, I went over and I hunted elk for three weeks with some buddies. And we hunted in the gravelly range. And then I went west over to Unit 270 and I hunted with the bow for two weeks. Didn't tag out. So, I went back home for about 12 days. And then I flew back out and I hunted with the rifle. And I ended up, you know, harvesting that buck with the rifle. That's great. I hunted Colorado over the counter. Hunted in Idaho over the counter. Shot a nice 7x7 with the bow there up in the Tex Creek area. And then I hunted oryx down in New Mexico on the White Sands Missile Range. Wow. Drew that tag in, I don't know, it had to be about 2008, somewhere in there. So, you know, I've done several hunts out here. From 2002 to 2009, I pretty much went every year. So, what's on the list of what haven't you done that you really want to? Or what is your favorite thing? Like mule deer or elk?

What do you want to do every year now that you're in the west? What do you always want to make time for? Or what are you hoping to draw? Well, they're all my favorite, you know. I just love being in mountains. My passion is the bow hunt. I really love to bow hunt. I don't know if I mentioned, I drew a Nevada 221, 223 tag. Didn't harvest. That was back in... Elk or deer? 2005, mule deer. Saw some awesome deer there, but I could never get anything close enough. I had some small deer close, but, you know, just never saw anything close enough. I could punch my tag on it, but, boy, I saw some awesome bucks. And that was, you know, like the Mount Grafton area. Yeah, Mount Grafton, Virginia Dale, and all that stuff to the north is just loaded with bucks. I'd love to get that tag again. Now that you're living here closer now. Exactly. Yep.

So, actually, this year I drew a Wyoming Unit 58 antelope tag. Oh, wow. Yeah, I actually talked to you. Adam, on the phone. That's one of the better ones. Did you have max points? I had max points. Yeah. I had 11 points. Well, that's another one living out west. And now you feel like, you know, an antelope is a harder one to maybe justify leaving New York and coming to clear out for an antelope. But when you're here, now it's a three-hour drive up there and you're hunting. Yeah. So. And, you know, my thinking this year, I didn't apply. That's the only tag I applied for. I just had my knee replaced a month ago. So, I said, you know, I'm not really going to be in. My cardio fitness is gone. I haven't been able to do anything in two years. Yeah. And I was going to have the knee replaced last year, but then I ended up moving to Utah, so I postponed it another year. Yeah.

So, my cardio fitness is just totally gone. So, I'm going to do that antelope hunt and then I'm going to hammer away over the winter and the spring and the summer and get back in the mountain shape. Get your legs and everything back. So, how's the knee doing? Oh, it's doing great. Yeah. Good. You wouldn't have known. I mean, you walked in here today. I mean. I know. It's amazing they can cut basically your leg in half. Yep. And put a joint in there and sew it up. And you're walking around now a month, but you've probably been walking for a week or two because you don't, you're not. My father-in-law had his knees replaced and it was rough. Yeah. I don't know. You know, I know everybody has a different experience, but just, I don't know, right after and just all the stretching and all the things that you got to do, it just, I mean, it was sheer pain.

Well, you know, I tell people all the time because they ask me in the hospital, you know, physical therapists, and they say, what's your pain level? And I said, I don't have any pain. You got to have a brain before you can have any pain. All I have experienced is soreness and tightness. Really? Not really pain. That's crazy. I've never taken a painkiller. Wow. So I'm bouncing back quick and, you know, I'm excited. And next year, I mean, I'm applying for every tag I can next year. Good. Good. Antelope this year, maybe kill a book head because that unit's got them. Yeah, that's definitely got them. And, you know, anyway, Adam actually killed a big old antelope in Arizona. It's kind of got the bug. We've been applying and getting points across the West. And it's another one of those kind of species that we maybe take for granted a little bit just because we've been immersed in them. Yeah.

You know. But anything big is exciting. Yeah, anything. Especially mule deer. But, yeah, anything big is exciting. Big antelope. Big bear. You know, things that we don't maybe plant or hope all around. But when you get a tag for them, you make the most of it. That's right. Well, I look around the walls at this place and it definitely, the mule deer allegiance is present. Yeah, I don't, we need to get an antelope on the wall somewhere, I guess. We do need to. Maybe your buck. Well, maybe I'll bring you in. You're going to mount that thing? Oh, yeah. 87 inch, you're a guy out of mount. It's getting mounted. Full body? No. No. All right. Well, so what's on your, you know, bucket list, so to speak? Like, I mean, are you into sheep or what do you really, what do you dream about? Any hunts that you're really looking forward to getting someday? Well, I would love to do a sheep hunt.

And I've been building points for sheep. You know, the reality of the situation, as we all know, it's a lottery once in a lifetime tag. And I'll be very fortunate to draw one.

It's not going to stop me from applying, you know. And I'm not getting any younger, so I've got to hope that I'm going to draw it here within the next few years. I really, really would like to take a moose with my bow. That's one of the tags I really would like to draw. I've got, like, 14 in Wyoming now. So I should be in pretty good shape to draw a tag there pretty quick, hopefully.

You know, the sad part is, in Utah, when I was living back east as a non-resident, I could build points for everything. Now I live here. What did you settle on? What two did you settle on when you moved here? Well, I did elk and sheep. Okay. That's smart, in my opinion. I mean, if you had the 14 moose in Wyoming, like I said, just pick one of the sheep here in Utah. Yeah. You know, I'm trying to get a desert tag. And then, you know, I've got next year's app. I'll have 15 for elk in Utah. That's getting into a great position. You're in a good spot. Yeah. You'll get a good tag here soon. Yeah. Yeah. Bronson Outfitters take him out, huh? Yeah. I'm not as good an elk hunter as he probably would need to help him kill a big bull. Oh, man. We've been scouting a lot this year. And we always joke about Adam is known for sheep, but he's also got a lot of those clients that want to kill big bulls.

And we've got them here in Utah. And they know where they're at. And they work them, too. But, you know, his love's for the sheep and deer and different things. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, good. Well, maybe let's talk about the NRA a little bit. And there's many different facets of the NRA. And then, you know, your involvement and which part you're involved in. And then just kind of teach people. I mean, we all know the NRA is a good thing, right? And we all take part in that and are members of it and support them. But sometimes it's hard to know exactly what we're supporting. I mean, you know, it's quite a big program with a lot of different entities involved. Huge entity. Yeah. We know there's a lot of good. But, yeah, break it down for us in terms of the arms of the NRA, if you will. Yeah. Well, what a lot of people don't realize is that the NRA itself is the oldest civil rights organization in the country. You know, it was founded back in 1871. And, you know, their objective when they first started was to educate and train people in firearms usage.

So more like a hunter safety type thing in a way? No, it was because the two generals that founded the NRA were appalled at the marksmanship of the soldiers that fought in the Civil War. They wanted a training camp to become marksmen better, in a way. They wanted to educate and train people in firearms usage. And, you know, the NRA, of course, has evolved over the years and, you know, has moved over and done a lot of other things. But now when I talk about civil rights is that, you know, the Second Amendment is a right. And it's something that's protected under the Constitution and that all Americans have or should have. That's what's concerning when we first started this podcast. We were talking about the different areas and within the lower 48 that maybe they don't have. It feels like they don't have. So, you know, that was kind of the evolving of the organization into that part of it.

And the NRA basically is a very big company, 650 employees. There's the membership side, which falls under general operations, which is membership recruitment and retention. People pay their membership fees and then, you know, the magazines that they receive with their membership fall under that side. You know, there's a multitude of different departments. I mean, there's a legal team there. There's the publications division. There's the NRA store where they sell NRA merchandise.

There's all different divisions that fall under that. Then you have the NRA Foundation, which is the 501c3 not-for-profit under IRS law. And that was formed in 1992. And the objective when they formed that was to create a program that was going to raise money and put it back into the shooting sports, put money on the ground. And my main responsibility as field rep is to oversee that structure of that program here in Utah and work with volunteer committees and help them be successful doing those fundraising events. Talking banquets, yeah. Yeah. Much like Rocky Mountain Elk and Mule Deer Foundation and Wild Turkey and Ducks Unlimited, Sportsman's for Wildlife, you know, we have banquets. And it amazed me when you guys had said, you know, we really don't know anything about the program. So, you know, my mission here, I was charged when I moved out here, was to grow the program.

We know there's potential here. It's often said that we're the best-kept secret there is, that nobody's heard of friends of NRA. Which isn't good if you're trying to generate revenue. Right. What I can tell you is, well, let me just finish up on the organizational structure of the NRA. Then we have the NRA ILA, Institute for Legislative Action, which is the political, legal, legislative division of the NRA. They're the ones that do all of the campaign stuff and endorse candidates, that type of thing. So, those three separate divisions, and because the foundation is 501c3, we can't be involved in anything political. IRS law prohibits that. So, if you come to one of my fundraising events, we can have people that are political office holders or candidates there, but we can't allow them to campaign there. Give a speech and we endorse this guy. Correct. Yep. That's a no-no.

So, that's the basic structure of the NRA. Okay.

Underneath that Friends program, there's, right now, we held nine banquets in Utah this year. I've been charged with growing that segment of the program here in Utah. Both locations, number of banquets, as well as attendance? Number of banquets.

Of course, I've already identified seven areas in Utah where I believe I can get banquets going. Some of those areas already had banquets, but they have stopped having banquets. So, Cedar City here is one. Kanab, Moab, Delta, Logan. Vernal. Tuella. Tuella. Vernal actually had a banquet, stopped, and then I got them restarted this past year. Okay. Very successful for their first year back. The nice thing to report is that we are 51% higher in revenue for 2017 than we were in 2016. So, the people are interested. You have to give them a product they want. Yeah. You know. And they got to know that you even have an event and what you're doing with your money. Yeah. Yep. You have to. Have you heard of them, Adam? Like, did you? I've heard of them in the past, but I think Utah, you know, we have a lot of conservation groups in Utah. And so, we have a lot of banquets.

We've been, you know, 20 years or so where we have three a weekend around, you know, our neck of the woods. And so, maybe it's just kind of been hard for you guys to break in from that regard. I've heard of them. I've never attended one myself, though. Yeah. You know, it's a matter of getting the word out. And, you know, people will support us. You know, they just have to know about it. And I know what I did, I used something this year here in Utah that was never used before, was doing a mailing program and sending flyers. You're talking direct mail. Yeah. Just get lists. Yeah. Get a flyer in front of people and let them know there's going to be an event. Yeah. And that wasn't being done in the past. Yeah. So, that's been, that's really helped us. What I can tell you is in Utah, since the inception of the program in 1992, to present day, this includes the money we raised in 2017.

There's been $4,088,321.16 in grant dollars raised in Utah and awarded. So, what does that, to break that down, what does grant dollars mean? Well, the way that, is that the net? Is that like the net? Yes. After banquets? The way the whole program is structured is, we talk about this grant opportunities. Each one of these banquets in Utah raises X amount of dollars. So, say the banquet grosses $70,000, nets $35,000. Well, the expenses that come out of that, of course, are for the venue where it's held. Food. Food. The catering. Anything you're, guns. Whatever. Guns. You know, anything you use in a silent auction, live auction. So, you deduct all the expenses, and if you're doing a good job, your net to gross should be around 50%. Okay. So, that $35,000 net then goes into the grant program. Does that stay in Utah's grant program? How does that work? Yeah, that's where I was leading to.

All right. So, what happens is 50% of the money, 50% of the net goes to national level programs, and 50% stays in Utah. Okay. So, last year, we had $172,000 net for the entire state. So, of that 72, about $81,000, or no, $86,000 went into the grant program for Utah only. The other half went to the national level. And national can use it for the legal thing, whatever. No, no. Just national shooting sports. This is foundation money, so it has to stay under foundation umbrella. Give us some examples of those. And I don't know if you've heard of the Eddie Eagle program. Yeah, that's the, I remember my kids had videos when they were little about not picking up guns if you see them. The Eddie Eagle program is, we educate the little toddlers. If you see a gun, stop, turn around, run away. Don't touch. Leave the area. Tell an adult. Find an adult. Yep. I could still say that.

My kids would be like, there's a gun. I wonder. It's mine. Walk over, start, you know. My kids are, well, being raised, when they're raised around guns, it's not anything new or exciting, really. It's more of a deal for their friends when they bring them over, you've got to tell your kids, hey, when you bring your friends over, remember, this is a house that's a little bit different, you know, than maybe the house they've been in. You know, I walk downstairs and my boy's got his shotgun up on a couple of nails across the wall. I'm over here and he's got his AR over there. And I'm thinking, hey, it doesn't seem the safest thing in the world, but my kids have been so raised around it. And again, that's the culture difference between here out west and back east. But anyway, Eddie Eagle is one of the programs. We have a great program that I'm very fond of called, yes, Youth Education Summit.

And it actually just ended up last week. And what it is, it's a scholarship program. And students from all over the country are awarded scholarships. And it's open to high school sophomores and juniors. And they submit an application. And the applications are reviewed. Candidates are selected. And then these kids receive a scholarship for $2,300 for each one of them. And they fly into Washington, D.C. And they attend leadership conferences. They go to NRA headquarters. They visit the NRA Museum. They go to all the monuments, Lincoln Memorial, you know, all of that type of thing. They go to the Capitol. And they actually talk with their congressman while they're there. And they're a great, great program. And these kids are the cream of the crop. And I've had several over the years that have come to my banquets and spoken.

And you're just totally blown away by these kids that, you know, 16 years old and 17 years old. And, you know, just how eloquent they are. How polished they are. Yeah. And, you know, they're our future leaders, you know. And that's kind of the culture of our program, you know. We put money back into the shooting sports because we know we're preserving the shooting sports and the hunting traditions for future generations. You know, that's our whole objective. And so, you know, on the funding for the legal side of the NRA, does that come from membership? Does that come from, do they have other fundraising that the parent company does? There's, you know, you guys are well aware, you know, when you're an NRA member, there's a lot of mail that comes to you. So NRA ILA, which is the Institute for Legislative Action, they do their own fundraising efforts.

Our money from the foundation can't go into their fund. Okay. IRS law prohibits that. So they do their own fundraising. And, you know, they, of course, have a list of people that donate. They have a list of the NRA members, and they target people. So if people want to donate to that cause, you know, it wouldn't be donating to you. No. To you would be more with the youth and different programs like that. Correct. You know, our grant program, the biggest majority, about 80% of the money we raise goes to kids' programs. Boy Scouts, 4-H, high school rifle teams, junior ROTC programs, things like that. We also give money to Women on Target events, which Women on Target is a program designed to get women that are non-shooters involved in the program and remove any type of peer pressure. They're shooting with other women for the first time.

So they don't have this macho male guy there that, you know. Bunch of guys, and she's a lady showing up and is intimidated and just rather go home. Doesn't want to do this, you know. So Women on Target, we put money into hunter safety education. We put money into marksmanship training. We put money into shooting clubs and range development. It really boggles my mind, and again, it's part of we being the best kept secret, that there's the opportunity for lots of organizations to receive funding from us, but nobody knows about it. Yeah. You know. Yeah, a little, you know, small town rifle range needs a couple grand to get the range up going or, you know, all those types of things or school programs or these, you know. Would never have thought to call the friends of the NRA for that. Yeah. I can give you an example.

You know, I was president of my gun club back home in New York, and over the course of years, we had developed an air rifle program for kids. We developed a shotgun program for kids. We built skeet towers. We built a firing line for our rifle range, and that was all with NRA grant dollars, you know. And those opportunities are there. Again, awareness, make people aware that those things are there. And, you know, the nice part about the program is it puts money back on the ground. And if you're involved with a committee and have a banquet and apply for a grant, you're going to get funding. And, you know, I can tell you what happens is once a year, delegates from each one of those committees that has a banquet within the state of Utah come to what we call our state fund committee meeting.

And prior to that, from headquarters, I receive the grant applications and distribute them to these delegates. And they review all the applications. If they have any questions, they call the applicant directly and, you know, get an explanation. And then grant day, what happens is they all talk about those grants, decide who's going to get funding and how much funding they're going to get. NRA Foundation has nothing to do with rewarding of that money. It's you and your eight or ten chapter committee chairmen or whatever you want to call them that decide in Utah. And I have no decision-making process. I see. It's up to the people that – You're there to facilitate the meeting. I'm the recording secretary. Yeah. So the people that raise the money get to spend the money. And I would assume that – We could do something here at our range or we could at least apply. Sure. And so I would assume –

I mean, you may know exactly, but all – I mean, we're in Utah and you represent Utah. But there would be someone in Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico. Maybe there's somebody that covers a couple of states. But all these western states, you know, we've got people all over the United States. Probably there's somebody in your position, no matter where you live in the U.S. There's 52 field reps. 52 of you. All right. Now, for example, I talked about Area 3 back west where I covered four states plus part of New York. You know, California, there's five different field reps. Texas. It's not one. Texas, you can't cover this. So there are people that cover multiple states. There's two guys in Alaska, you know. But the point is is that there's grant funding available in every state in the United States. This program is in every state and works in every state.

So you're a field rep of the parent company, the NRA, but then the Friends of the NRA you work with, but you're not funded by the Friends of the NRA. That's not part of the expenses we're talking about. No. My salary, any money raised through Friends of NRA goes directly into the grant program and 100% of that money goes back out. My salary, any overhead building, any of my travel expenses. Your mailings, all those. They come from the national. My truck expense. All of that comes from the general operations side, not from the foundation. And so is your only job the Friends of the NRA? So your job responsibilities are the Friends of the NRA, or do you have other facets that come from the parent company? Well, as a field rep, you are the face of the NRA in your territory. So for the state of Utah, if anybody has an NRA question, they can call me. Okay. All right?

If it has to do with a political or a legal thing, I will refer them to the proper people at ILA. If it has to do with a membership question, I'll send them to the person on that side of it. As far as other things that I do here in Utah, for example, I don't know if you guys are aware, but in about three weeks, they have the Wild Horse and Burrow Summit is going to be up in Salt Lake. So I'm going to represent the NRA at that. So there's a multitude of different things I do. And so what's your stance on the Wild Horses? Well, you know, my personal opinion. Kind of an emotionally charged topic out here in the West. My personal opinion, and, you know, I'm not speaking for the NRA when I say this, but my personal opinion is, as an outdoorsman, that any wildlife in any habitat needs to be managed by science. Yeah. Okay? Not by emotion and romantic.

Not by emotion and not by a bunch of lawyers in courts. No. All right? Leave it up to the experts. So what's the NRA, when you represent the NRA at this summit that's going to happen, I mean, why would they have the NRA there? Like, what is it? Well, again, the NRA is just not about gun rights. You know, we represent sportsmen's interests in hunting and believe in the conservation initiatives. The NRA has been involved in this coalition with the Wild Horse and Borough Management for a long time. As a matter of fact, one of the women at the NRA, she's unable to attend this year. That's why I'm going to represent. She was the one that originally chaired the whole thing. And they've been involved in it for a long, long time. And, you know, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Mule Deer, they're all part of this coalition.

And they all have come together as conservation groups and said that this is our position as far as how this should be managed. Something needs to be done, yeah. That's good. That's awesome. A bigger voice than just Elk Foundation or Mule Deer alone. You're all, well, that's good. I hope something comes in this new election cycle in because it's way, way overdue. Anybody that's really spent time in, you know, some of these western states, you know, Wyoming, parts of Idaho, Nevada, and Utah, probably, I don't want to leave some out, but those are probably the most affected. Like you said, it doesn't matter that they are horses. Most people, the romantic, romanticize them as, you know, pets and the long flowing manes running free like, you know, they were. But they're, they got to realize they got to eat, they got to drink, and they destroy stuff out here. They destroy stuff.

They have no idea what some of these landscapes look like. It's unbelievable. Some of these places, like Nevada is a classic example. It's an arid state. There's only so much water. And then when you get horses that can breed and breed and breed and more and more, and they're not managed, they just crush these little springs. I mean, they just crush them, you know, and it's taken away from deer and elk, and it's affecting the landscape. You should see some of the vegetation within two miles of a water source. It's unbelievable what they're doing. And so, and that's what's frustrating. I mean, it'd be nice to just kind of have a happy medium where everybody agrees that, you know, we can have some, but we, we were talking some, not as many as we can have, you know. And, and so you get these polar opposites. And so, you know, people want, anyway, you just can't come to a happy medium.

And I think that's part of some, some of the gun rights we've talked about. You know, it's hard to give up any of your gun rights, even though maybe I don't care about machine guns necessarily for myself and my personal interests. You don't want to give up any one of your rights because it starts that slippery slope of losing all your rights. Correct. You know what I mean? And so it's, it's a tough, it's, it's all tough deal. And just like we've talked about before the podcast and, you know, it's, it's foreign to Adam and I to not be able to have a gun. It's foreign to look for California, for example, maybe getting off subject about, you know, killing a mountain lion in some other state, having even the taxidermy done in another state and not being able to bring it into the state of California. Like, is this, is this America? Yeah. Is it America?

I don't, I, you know, and those are some of the things. It's just such a foreign thought process. It's not like we're bringing a polar bear in or it's not like we're coming from, we're coming from something that was killed in the lower 48 that can't be brought into your home state, which is within the lower 48. It's amazing, you know, to even think about some of these things. And so, well, the NRA is interesting. It's, it's awesome that they're taking part in conservation efforts too. I, I didn't really know that, you know, it wasn't just about guns as far as like you're talking about, as far as having an interest in the, wild horse and burrow. Well, we advocate, we advocate, advocate for the hunter and the sportsman and for responsible management of wildlife and habitat. That's great. So when it comes to your banquets, you're, you're the man.

I mean, you're, you have committees around Utah, but, but, but you're the man in Utah. You organize them in Utah. Do you have them, you know, maybe for our Utah listeners, do you have them throughout the year? Are they target around the winter and spring months? What are your, well, typically the best, the most successful banquets are usually springtime. We find, and I think a big reason to that is because, you know, in the spring people kind of have cabin fever and they're ready to bust out of the house. Talk about hunting or go mix and mingle with hunters or something like that. Yeah. You know, they're, they're coming off of the winter time and maybe been cooped up in the house a little bit and paid off the Christmas bills. They're ready to get, ready to get going and do something. You know, we do banquets, we'll do banquets in the summer and we can do them in the fall.

Being new to Utah, what I've heard from some people is, oh, you know, fall's hunting season. So, you know, we really don't want to be involved and do something. And, you know, I, I, I don't force any committees to do something under my scheduling. I say to them, I'm here to help you. You need to tell me what you need to do, what you want to do. And we'll pick a date. Yeah. Well, as long as it's one a year, you know. Yeah, be honest with you. I want to go hunting too. Yeah. Absolutely. That's right. Those are not going to be as well attended. If all my banquets could be done by September 1st, I'd be in my glory. Yeah. Well, and it's true because a lot of the gun owners here in the West, and I don't know what it's like back East, actually, but here in the West, we're hunters. The gun owners are hunters, it seems like.

I don't, I even know very few people, if any, I guess I could think about it for a minute, but very few people that just own guns and don't hunt. Like, I own guns because I love guns. I go out and target shoot and that's kind of where it ends. It's just not that way. We've got a lot of, our hunting community is what really are the gun bearers, you know. Sure. The guys that have guns usually hunt to a degree unless it is for just, you know, protection and somebody, you know, women or whoever has something for protection and has a handgun or two, but anyway. Back East, you know, there's a bigger percentage of people that are gun owners back East are more into target shooting. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause there's not maybe as much, the variety, white tail deer and small game and that's, that's about it. Yeah.

And depending on if you're in an urban area, some, some places you can't even use, you know, long rifles. You can't even use, you know, use a shot tree, shotgun, muzzle loaders only. Where I, where I was in New York, the county I lived in, you couldn't hunt with a rifle. Yeah. I've had sheep hunters come from New York and they call and told me, says, I don't own a center fire. And I said, what do you mean? You drew a desert sheep tag. You need one of those. You know, that's important. Adam and I have got a guy applying that just doesn't own a rifle and he's applying and he knows he needs to get one. And, uh, I, you know, I simply said, well, just save your money and I've got it taken care of because he lived in New York and he hunted archery heavily for his, his deer. Occasionally did the shotgun muzzle loader, but you know, dream to hunt and when you draw

a desert sheep tag, you know, you're not going to bring a slug gun out for it. So he used mine and took a great ram and took it home. So yeah, I, you know, sometimes you hear some drills like that. And obviously when you got that many people, there's, there's laws that they need to make. We have places even in Utah where you can't use center fires, you know, certain different places around urban areas and things, you know, the whole Wasatch front, for instance, has extended archery season for a reason because you got, I don't know, whatever, three million people living at the foothills of that. So it makes sense, but, but anyway, so, well, how does, I mean, you run banquets in Utah. I assume, you know, our listeners are from all over the United States. So how does somebody find out what's going on in their own neck of the woods with friends of the NRA and banquets and stuff?

Well, as, as field rep, of course, I work with all of the committees.

If somebody needs information about the NRA Foundation, they can go to www.nrafoundation.org. If they want information about friends of NRA, they can get it there or they can go to www.friendsofnra.org. And if you do that, it will pop up a map or you can click on a link that says find an event and it'll pop up a map of the United States. And then you can click on the state that you want and you can find out what the events that are going on. But, you know, as I said, my, my job now that I'm here is I have these nine existing committees that I've identified seven areas where I think we can establish more committees. If anybody wants my information, they can get it off the website.

If you go to that friends of NRA site, it'll show me as the representative for Utah. And my boss is Jason Quick, who you guys know, and, you know, Jason's in California. And you can get a hold of myself or Jason that way. You know, all my contact information will be there. And I'd be willing to talk to anybody. You know, I, I, what I try to impress upon people is that this is such an important program because the money's going back into the shooting sports and it's creating that future for us. And it, it, when I look, when I look at the program, it boggles my mind. I mean, since the program started in 1992, $750 million in grant funding has been raised. That's really cool. You know, that's, that's net. We're talking net that actually goes to grant money. Yeah. You know, we're talking in the next few years, we're going to be at a billion dollars. That's been put back into shooting sports.

This is our 25th anniversary this year, 2017. So I noticed you guys help each other a little bit. Like you went to California and helped Jason and some of his stuff. Does he do this and he'll come and help you when you got a bandit season? You know, we're, the, the field operations staff is, we're a family, you know. And what I've found is that anybody that's in, in field operations will do anything they can to help you out. And as a field rep, especially when you come on board, when you're new, all you need to do is ask. And you can pick up the phone. You can call any field rep anywhere in the country. You can call any one of the six regional directors like Jason. You can call, the big boss of all of us is Phil Gray. He lives in Ohio. You can call him. We have a support staff at headquarters. Sarah Angusette is the director of volunteer fundraising.

And she's got a staff that works underneath her. But you can call anybody any time of the day. And when I say any of the time of day, I mean it. I mean, think of it. You've got two field reps up in Alaska. And think of the time difference from the East Coast to Alaska. You know, you could be doing a banquet in New York and it'd be 1, 2 o'clock in the morning and you're driving home. And you can call one of those guys and ask them a question if you want. 8 o'clock at night. Yeah. You know. So, great organization. You know, very family oriented. And twice a year we all get together. We have a meeting every summer and we have a meeting back at headquarters in December. And, you know, there's a lot of camaraderie there. And, you know, I say that, you know, the people that are involved with Friends of NRA, whether it be us as field reps or whether it be our volunteers on these committees,

are probably the most passionate Second Amendment supporters you will ever find. I can see that. They're in it for a reason. And just like me, they believe in the Constitution and they know that, you know, we're building this culture for the future of the shooting sports and freedom. Yeah. You have to get these kids in it because that's what, I mean, that's the future of all this. Sure. And to foster, it's probably your biggest growing segment, is to foster more people that are pro-gun, you know, that understand the valuable role they play in our lives. And have played, you know, in our country. Have played. And so, and what about, like, so let's say we do a fundraising event here in Cedar. Do you try to let us have some funds here in Cedar or is it more just state by state? And so our funds may go to, you know, a Salt Lake shooting range or some kind of youth program.

It just depends on that grant meeting and where it ranks out, that one you alluded to. Again, you know, it's up to the delegates. I don't make any determination on where the money goes. And so on the delegates, Cedar City would have two or three banquet committee people. If Cedar City holds a banquet, Cedar City is going to have a representative at that meeting. Okay. As long as they send one. Okay. You know, and they should. They get a vote on money and how much. And they get to vote. And what I can tell you is just from having done this for a number of years now and watching this grant process is they get these applications and they have their minds made up already. Each one of these delegates knows the organizations in their area that have applied for grants.

And they also know those organizations that have helped them with their banquet by attending, supporting, donating, working at the banquet or whatever. And those applications are the ones that rise to the top. You know, and the question will be asked. They'll look at a grant application and they'll say, do these people support us? Well, let's put that one off to the side. We'll go through these first. If there's money left at the end, we'll see what we can do. You know? Well, that's great. What I like and what you've tried to explain and I think has come across fairly well is that it's not just this giant organization that you donate funds to and you never understand where those go. Right. Like there are ways to watch what good your money does, you know, and become involved and to take part in that and even maybe volunteer to chair some of these events or whatever.

And so, you know, it takes people to, you know, it takes people to really put these events on and whatnot. And so, there's donations, you know, monetarily wise but also time wise and they can probably all get a hold of you if they want to become involved, more involved in some of those different things. I mean, our volunteers are the key. We could not do this program if we had to pay help. We wouldn't make any money, you know. Without the volunteers, I don't have a job and we don't have a Friends of NRA program. And, you know, it just, you stop and think about $750 million being raised by volunteer effort. Yeah. That boggles the mind. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Well, and they're going on everywhere. It sounds like 52 field reps throughout the United States. And so, probably something within a few hours drive of wherever you're at. I mean, there may be a few exceptions.

Field reps, not even including whatever you've got in all these different towns. Eight or ten banquets under each one, you know. Basically, there's 1,100 banquets a year in the United States. And it's, Phil Gray, our boss, describes it. He says, think about this now. You've got a business and you want to go to a bank and you want to ask for money. And your business plan is, well, we've got 1,100 stores and each one of those stores is open one day of the year. Yeah. You better make it count. You better pull off a pretty good event and make it count. There's a lot goes on. You know, the real successful committees, there's a lot that goes on outside the event. You know, they do pre-event drawings and they go out and solicit donations. To put on the one-day event is four or five months in the making. Yeah. They raise a lot of money by all the work they do ahead of time. Yeah.

Well, and like here in Utah, like Adam and I talked about earlier, we have so many different things, whether it's SFW, Milder Foundation, RMEF. There's so many banquets. Some weekends have two and three banquets on a Friday and a Saturday. So you're kind of trying to pick and choose which ones you're going to support and go to. And, of course, we sell tags. And, you know, my kids love to go to these things, too, because they win little things. Sure. And whatnot. But anyway, there's a little bit of a challenge. You know, is there so many other options to choose out there? But I think this is a great. Yeah, I appreciate you, you know, educating us as much as even our listeners, because I don't think maybe this is as well-known amongst conservation or hunter rights or gun owner rights organization and groups.

Everybody knows what the NRA or thinks they know what it is, but probably doesn't understand the friends of the NRA arm of that and how 100% of it goes back. You know, I know you said either 50% goes to the national level and 50% stays, but all of it goes back to on the ground. You know, a lot of it you said, 80% of it roughly into the youth-oriented type programs, which is great to keep recruitment and replace us. Guys that are getting older, they're going to have to sometime put the gun on the shelf. Want 80% to go to guys like us. But, no, very good, very good presentation today. Very enlightening to me, I know. And once again, maybe for everybody again, since, you know, we're based here in Utah, but tell them the website one more time. Is it friendsofnra.org? Is that the one you can go to? Well, you can go to www.nrafoundation.org.

There you're going to find a lot of information separate.

There's a link there that if anybody's interested in applying for a grant, you can click on a link that says apply for a grant. The grant process actually opens tomorrow, August 1st. And then when's the deadline? The deadline is going to be November. Okay. I believe it's November 8th.

So it's a totally online process. They fill out the grant application online. They can start the grant application. They don't have to complete it. It'll save the information. They can go back, work on it some more. If they have any questions or problems, they can contact me and I can steer them to the people at the grant department. And the grant department can assist them with their application. There's certain requirements that have to be met. You know, you need to fill out the application. You have to have letters of support. You have to prove your not-for-profit status, those types of things. But, you know, there's plenty of time for people to fill out these applications. And if there's a Boy Scout troop or a 4-H club that has a shooting program, if there's a gun range that needs to do improvements, I don't know why they would not apply.

I think our Cedar City gun range could use some improvements myself. Yeah. You know, I told you about my club back east. Everybody knows there's something that could... All the things we did, and we did it with NRA grant dollars. Yeah. You know? So it's really... It benefits people to get involved in the program, help raise the money, because that's going to help you get money for all of these projects that need to be done. You know? And that same website, they can also, when the time comes, maybe winter and spring, they can target their local banquets near them, that same website? Well, then again, www.friendsofnra.org is the easy way to find the grant. The bank. The bank schedule. Gotcha. Yep. It's great. Well, that kind of wraps it up.

It seems like, you know, you've given us what we need, and I think it's just a matter of getting on there and just a little bit of due diligence to figure it out. And then maybe open our mail. It sounds like you're doing some direct mail. Yep. You know, to continue to let everybody know what's going on. When do you guys allocate the grant funds? Like, is it something you try to do before the end of the year? The grant meeting is usually held in January. Okay. Last week, it was the third weekend in January. And what I do is I do a grant meeting and I do a volunteer workshop. And people from all of the committees come together, and we have the grant meeting Saturday. And then the volunteer workshop on Sunday is a way for people to share ideas on how to make their banquet successful. And that happens once a year.

And then after the grant meeting is over, I send all the results into headquarters, and everything goes through a legal review process. And usually by May, that's all finalized. As long as everybody has submitted all the documentation that was necessary, then the funds get awarded. Okay. All right. And if there's the ability to, say, somebody wants to do a shooting program and they need ammunition and they want to get some rifles, you know, 22 rifles or air guns, clay targets, you name it, eyes and ears, all of that type of stuff, can actually come through the NRA store. But if it's a range improvement where, say, you had to hire a contractor to come in and do some excavation work, then you would be issued a check. And you'd receive a check in the mail to help offset the cost of that. And then all of this is contingent upon finalizing the project and finalizing the paperwork.

And as long as everything matches up, you're good to go. Then you're good to go. Yep. No? Yep. Can't see why somebody that has a need or a school program for it, like you said, wouldn't take advantage of that. Everybody's, well, a lot of us in the West live in a rural place where we didn't have shooting ranges in Monticell, Utah. We had, you know. You went out a couple miles outside of town. Yeah. Just where you figure you wouldn't wake somebody up early in the morning. And we do a lot of that here in the West. And we do take it for granted a little bit how blessed we are. We can do that. But it is nice to have a facility to go to. It's also nice to have a place to go. And a, you know, something that's more formal. But some of these places are so formal. You're signing up in advance. They're charging you, you know, every visit you want to do and assigning you. It's just so structured.

And we're just not used to that here in the West. We're backward. I've actually, I've got a meeting tonight at the Hampton Inn trying to recruit some folks to put on a banquet. And some guys from the trap club are going to be at that meeting tonight. Great. And find out about the program. And then tomorrow morning I'm actually going out to the trap club to take a look at it. And, you know, see if I can make any recommendations to them. Yeah. You know, and that's the type of thing that I'm trying to do. I'm trying to get into these communities. And being new to Utah, I don't know anybody. Yeah. You know, and that's why you guys are real helpful because you can help spread the word for me. You can talk to people here in the local area and say, hey, get a hold of Jim, you know.

Well, quite frankly, the NRA is so big, it's not been an organization that I felt like if we wanted something done that we would go to the NRA and ask for funding. And so that's what's so awesome about having you here. You're at least a face. You're a face. You're a face. You're a face that they're, yeah, yeah, you're a face to the company and you've enlightened us that there are opportunities for that. Sure. I always thought they just fight legal battles. They're a good thing. I'm going to sign up as a membership member. But if we wanted to get something done, you know, of course, you know, we're thinking about conservation groups and some of the other things that we've been affiliated with for years. And so it's been a great podcast and been able to, you know, if Adam and I feel this way, there's plenty of others that feel the same way, you know.

Appreciate you coming on and boiling it down for us. I appreciate you having me here and helping me get the word out, you know.

For me, it's not a job. It's a way of life, you know. I'm passionate about it. I want to see it grow. I want to see it be successful. And I know we can do great things here in Utah. And I'll be honest with you, Vernal years ago when the oil business was one of the top ten banquets in the country. Well, it is on the conservation side, too. They've got a lot of funding up there and they've got a lot of passionate sportsmen. We've got good friends in Vernal. And it's just a great, great location for what you've got going on. I know there's unlimited potential here in Utah. We just have to get the word out and tap into it. So I appreciate what you've done having me here and helping me get it out. You bet. And, yeah, we appreciate you being on. And for those listeners out there, this isn't just happening in Utah. This is happening everywhere across the United States. So, anyway. Thanks, Jim.

Appreciate it. Thanks, Jim. We appreciate you. We'll have you on again. Okay. All right. Thanks, buddy. Good talking to you. Here at Epic Outdoors, we publish a Western hunting magazine nine times a year. The first six months of the year are key to break down the Western state draws. Every state, every species that issues their tags through a draw, we break it down, kill statistics, drawing odds, harvest rates, everything you need to do to kind of match up your personal hunting goals and strategies with the states and species and how they work and when you need to apply and all that. Yeah, and like you said, it's a lot to deal with the Western big game. While we kill small game and we work with that, it's not as much. You're not drawing tags as much, although there are some turkey draws and whatnot, but we are

really concentrating on Western big game, including Iowa, Kansas, and a few of those. But for the most part, all the Western states, you know, of course, we work with outfitters in Canada, Alaska, Mexico. There's some other sections in the magazine as well. We've got the Hunter Next Door article that our good friend Roger Smithson writes. You know, kind of dives into the lives of some significant hunters. It's super interesting. The Unbelievable section, which is a new section, just kind of some crazy stories that happens out there in the hills. Really, really interesting. It's going to be a big hit. It's just, I love those stories that are coming in on that. You know, as well as we have like the trophy section in the back where, you know, just kind of showcases a lot of our member success that are maybe not as apt to, you know, write a full-blown article. And so, anyway.

We'll also invite some significant big game managers in some of the Western states to do articles throughout the early part of the year. Our goal is to keep you informed of the freshest information on hunting each Western state. That's right. Yeah. And even in later in the year, we cover, you know, even stuff on Texas or, you know, bison in Arizona and Alaska. Alaska Doll Sheep. Yeah, there's a lot of different, you know, sections and, of course, states and species involved. And so, anyway, very, very aggressive hunting magazine. It generally runs 120 pages a month, plus or minus. And just super aggressive on anything to do with Western big game. And so. Subscriptions, membership to run for 12 months from the date you join. $100 subscription. You can get more information at epicoutdoors.com or call us at 435-263-0777.