EP 88: Chasing a giant 295 7/8" Mule Deer with Chad Roberts

Went after him full throttle and I found him. You have the rifle tag, you have what you have to draw, then you buy an over-the-counter archery for January hunt. And he was .292 and .48 net. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter here with the Epic Outdoors podcast, coming at you from Cedar City, Utah, Southern Utah. We're getting close to the season, where everybody's getting excited. Nevada opens up this Friday, so we've got to do a podcast today because I'm leaving. Anyway, before we get started, I do want to thank Under Armour for sponsoring this podcast. They sponsor about every single thing we do. We appreciate their support. Of course, we've got a lot of other podcast sponsors as well. Omar Thompson of Thompson Long Range, he swears he can have your gun in one week with a couple boxes of shells, and you can shoot as far as you dare to shoot. And so, anyway, great guys, very affordable. I went through Mark's course, you know, it was the first time I ever shot 1,000 yards with Mark Thompson,

and a gun I had that I got from him. Thompsonlongrange.com, 435-713-4248. So I appreciate them and their support of Epic. Anyway, we've got an excellent, awesome podcast coming up. We've got Chad Roberts on the line. He killed a freaking giant, 295-inch, if I remember right, he'll correct me, type deer down there in Arizona. Most people know about it. If they see the pictures, they'll definitely remember it. It's one of those deer you can't forget about. And so I wanted to visit with him. He's made a lifestyle out of hunting the desert and hunting giants and pulling giants out of where giants aren't supposed to exist. And so I love visiting with guys like that, and I learn a lot and just want to dive right into it. So, Chad, you on the line? Yes, sir. Awesome. Well, we sure appreciate you being on with us today. Of course, talking about my favorite subject, mule deer.

We kind of sift through the other podcasts here and there, just trying to get to the mule deer podcast, as far as I'm concerned.

Good man. So tell us a little bit about it, a little bit about yourself, first off. Just kind of set the stage for how you become a desert dweller. Have you always been there? Did you move to Arizona? And then how did you kind of develop an affection for these big muleys? Well, I'm from Yuma, Arizona, 39 years old, born and raised. I'm a husband, father of two. You know, my dad and uncles got me into hunting the desert at a very young age. And there weren't a lot of influences, I guess, you know, as far as desert hunting goes. I just kind of made do with what I had. And, you know, I had a few role models or people I'd read about in the magazines, Chuck Adams, of course, being one of them.

And for those that don't know, I'm an archery and a rifle hunter. Yeah. I'm a desert mule deer fanatic. I've harvested 34 desert bucks. Half of them have been with a bow. And you touched on one of them being the SEI world record at 295.

Also pulled off a couple high country bucks and a few elk and an antelope with a bow. So high country in Arizona, is that like a 100-foot hill or what are we talking about? Well, that was up on the Kaibab. Yeah. Back when you could just get an over-the-counter tagging and go hunt. And then the other one was Colorado high country. Oh, right on. Right on. And so if you're like me, you just don't like water and green things. You just don't. Nope. Green trees, aspens, they're not that pretty. No. No, they're not. So, you know, I just, I would, you know, there wasn't anything around here as far as a Cabela's or Bass Pro or anything. And, you know, looking for bucks like the big one I harvested was pretty much out of the question. So just something you dream about. Yeah. And I had this little Arizona record book. It's, I don't know, an 8x5 little book. It had this big non-typical in it.

And I just had a feeling one day that, you know, I'd be able to pursue something like that. And when I finally was, I, you know, I didn't give up. But I, it took me four years to harvest him. But, you know, I finally, I finally got it done. And just one of those things that you, I mean, you only dream about. They're just, they don't exist for the most part. Well, yeah. And so let's just dive right into him. I mean, kind of set the stage. I mean, you know, when did you first see him? How big was he? How did you know he had these kind of genetics? Would you have killed him any of the four years? Just couldn't. Just so happened you killed him on the big year and got lucky. I mean, just kind of, let's just kind of go through that. Obviously, he's a governor type deer. I mean, a lot of guys would sell him for 10 or 20 grand or whatever.

And to me, it's hard to sell deer like that's selling your firstborn. And so, you know, I see why it happens. And at times I've helped Governor Tags here and there. But it's not, you know, I'm a hunter first and a killer. And I want to put my own, you know, I want to put him in my house. And so I just kind of, you know, maybe set the stage for that. Some of the thoughts that were going through your head and then following him from year to year when you first saw him and how big was he. And let's go over some of that. Well, the first time I saw him was 2010. I, it was a fairly dry summer going into that year and a dry fall. So water was a pretty good option. Yeah. And so I'd set up some cameras and stuff and pick a spot that I wanted to kind of set. I'm fairly close to it where I work. And what I would do is I would go out there and I'd hunt the evening.

Well, when you're sitting in a blind or whatever, it's boring. I can't hardly do it. It's brutal. I would, I'd take my little camera with me and I'd, I'd pull my memory card out of my trail cam, put a new one in it. And while I was sitting there, I'd look at pictures, see what come in. And, and there, he had never come in at this point. And there was a few other decent bucks there and a little front come in and drop some rain. And I knew, I mean, you get a few sprinkles on the ground, it'll completely change pattern. These deer will go completely nocturnal. You have no chance during the day. And for the most part, you know, they'll, it can be a full blown drought and they'll completely quit coming to water for a couple of weeks. Yeah. And, uh, so I decided to do a little, uh, steel stocking and just, you know, kill some time.

And I had a buddy with me and we were, uh, working this ridge and I had to kind of skyline myself and I didn't want to do it, but I did. And when I did, he blew up from underneath me and I just seen, you know, his frame. I didn't put any extras on him or anything and just these huge, massive bases that he had at the time. And, uh, I anchored in and I guessed him at 70 and I let it fly. And he, uh, he hit his belly and ducked it. And I, you know, you, you, every deer you see is, is the biggest deer you've ever seen. You know, when they're that big, you know, so, uh, Pretty much want to shoot yourself in the air. Yeah. When that happens. So I was just in, in awe and couldn't believe it. And, uh, a few weeks had gone by and I decided to go out and give the water, uh, a check again. Were you running trail cameras? Were you running trail cameras at the time? Yes.

I was running a few, but he had not been in this area at all during the time I, I was running cameras. But do you found, did you find him with a camera initially? First time ever? No, I actually found him while I was, you know, walking and hunting. Yeah. And I just didn't know it. I, I, I knew he was big. I knew the deer that I'd missed was, was huge. I just didn't know what he was. And that was the first time you'd seen him. Like that's the first time you knew this deer exists. Yes. Okay. All right. And, uh, so a couple, a couple of weeks went by and I went out and set water one evening and, uh, pulled my card on my camera and as the same customers that were there and I put a new card in and, uh, nothing came in that afternoon. And so the next evening I went out and pulled my card and I got my blind and he was the first picture on there.

And it was literally 20 minutes after I left this big giant non-typical standing there. And I literally wiped my eyes like three times and zoomed the picture. It was just a little, you know, a little handheld camera. And I'm, uh, just trying to fathom this, you know, and I just couldn't believe it. And, uh, I never saw him again. He never came to that water again in his entire life. Um, and I didn't see him for the rest of that year. And of course I stayed right there on that. Like, why did he come then? Do you think he was, do you think his other water source dried up and? No, no, he was just, just searching. I think it was, uh, you know, beginning, it was pre-rut when I, uh, initially saw him and the initial time that he came in the water. Just checking water, seeing if there's hot does coming in or. Yep. There you go.

And, uh, you know, I just, I didn't have any, uh, knowledge of him or any pattern. I hadn't, it's, it's a needle in the haystack down here. And a lot of the stuff that I hunt, you can't glass, you know, it just be too far away from anything. Or there'll be some cuts where, you know, they're 30 to 40 foot deep and they're 20 foot wide. And if there were deer in there, you couldn't see them anyways. Guy like you is using eight power binos when we're all trying to do use BTXs. You have 35. Yeah. I, you know, I've, I've got my areas where I, you know, get the big glass out, but this particular area was just not a, not a glassing area. And, uh, so, you know, it got my gears turning and I went after him full throttle and I, I set cameras on every water hole within 20 miles. It was legal, you know, to set cameras on and, uh, I found him and, uh, we had probably

how much time, how much time between when you first shot at him to when you found him? Uh, probably, probably three months. Okay. And, uh, I, I started patterning or watching him on trail camera throughout the summer and trying to learn the area that he was in and not being able to glass a lot of it and is really tough. You know, if you, if you have, let's say you have five bucks in a 10 mile square area, that's a lot of country. Yeah. You know, to try to, to try to pinpoint. And it was probably one of the worst years we've had in a while down here as far as rainfall goes. And he didn't, uh, the first time, you know, the first picture I have of him, he's probably in the two forties, maybe two 50. And, uh, the next year he didn't, he just didn't produce two tennis or so. And I had no, I had no idea how old he was. Yeah.

And, uh, you know, he was starting to get that hammer brisket, but his ears were still fairly clean, but he had a little bit of a different head to him. So I really had a hard time putting an age on him. And I thought maybe he was going downhill. Yeah. And, uh, are their bodies, are their bodies smaller than say Kaibab bucks or other places? I mean, is he, you know, do they just have small desert deer type bodies and tough to judge and maybe their antler looks bigger than it is or? Yeah. Yeah. You know what? Um, not very often do you get a buck that'll dress over 200 pounds. You know, they're a big mature buck is anywhere from 170 to 190 pounds. Okay. Uh, so I killed a Colorado buck that was twice as hard. He looked like he's twice as high, you know? So, uh, but anyways, I, it kind of had them figured out and it was real, real dry, but I had a direction of kind of where he was going.

And as luck would have it, uh, early September, we, you know, mother nature finally turned loose and we got a ton of rain and it just, you know, scattered them out. And it was a little bit discouraging and opening day. I, I, uh, you were still going to kill him. Like it's 210 is a big deer. So you're like, I don't know how old he is. He's giant. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So I'm, I'm hunting him. I'm going for it. And, uh, my wife had a tag as well. And. Archery, both of you archery or rifle? Oh, this is rifle. Okay. And, uh, you know, I go the first few days and just not turning up much and I was hunting where they were, but they'd obviously moved around a little bit and, uh, I ended up jumping this decent four point up and I just said, you know, I cut my losses and cracked him. And when I did, I, I found the, I found the rest of them. Yeah. I found them all.

So my wife ended up getting an opportunity at him. It was just a quick shot there. You know, they're real sharp rolling hills with, uh, some deep cut banks in them. So it's a good hidey hole for me. You know, they're, you see them one second, they're gone the next and not being able to glass and put a spotter on them just made it really, really hard. She had an opportunity at him and missed him. And that was that. And we get, we, we have the fortune of being able to hunt rifle. And then there's a December archery hunt down here. If you don't kill one during rifle season, you can fill your, you know, that your tag. And then January starts a new year and you get all of January to hunt. Yeah. So I had, uh, started with, uh, a new tag in January and I ended up getting on him. I was able to glass him up. I got on him and I had him at, I don't know, about 45 yards.

And I had to come up out of this little gotcha wash. And when I did, I was shooting a mechanical broadhead and I opened it up. It hung on a greasewood when I got through it and it opened up and I had it full draw and I realized it was open and I let off. And that was the last time I saw him. I had a one shot of vortex broadhead that was open and it didn't turn out too good. So, yeah.

So I just, I turned out for the better, but yeah. So basically you had the rifle tag, you have what you have to draw. Then you buy an over the counter archery for the January hunt and you're back on him. Was he in the same area? Was he rutting, rutting, obviously starting to rut? He was, uh, actually solo. It was, uh, still pre-rut. It was, uh, a late rut that year. So they were, they were just starting to pick things up and he was actually by himself and couldn't really. Same area. Yeah. Pretty close, you know, within a couple of miles. And, uh, I couldn't really understand why there were some other good bucks with those, you know, that weren't his caliber and, but they were, they were, they were big mature bucks, but they weren't his caliber. And why he didn't have any dough. So then I started questioning, you know, is, does he, can he breed, you know, or totally past his prime? Yeah.

Yeah. Or, or is he just letting these little bucks get these does ready? And when it's time, he'll walk, he'll just kind of stroll in and take over. Yeah, exactly. And, uh, so I never got another crack at him that year. And he, he ran with during the off season, you know, or during when they weren't rutting or soon as he ran with another big typical. And, uh, as soon as they stripped their velvet, they, they separated. And the other, the other typical, he was a mid one nineties bug and the big non-typical started to, uh, produce again. It was, it was a better year the next year. Got him on trail camera. Got him on trail cameras. And of course I'm not, I'm not letting up at all, you know, just full throttle, totally obsessed with him. Going through double A's like it's water. Yeah. And, uh, so I got these, well, we had, uh, four target bucks, two were close to 200.

And then we had this, you know, 230 inch non-typical and a high one seventies buck. When do they finish? When do they finish growing down there? You know that they're, they're usually done growing, uh, say mid October, but they don't strip until, you know, last week of October to first week of November. That is unbelievable. We're talking basically a month and a half difference, if not two months on some bucks. Yeah. Wow. Then normal. Yep. Let's call normal areas in the world. So I, you know, I, I watched these deer all, all summer and then we got the monsoons again and they split up, they stripped and, and, and split, but, uh, three of them stayed over and a pretty tight area. And one kind of dripped off about five miles from these others. So, uh, my uncle and I made a plan and he went for one of the 200 inch bucks and I went

after this big non-typical and, uh, still getting them on water, but different waters, like they're split up and taken off a little bit. No, they're, they're still using the same water, but they're leaving and going in different directions. Okay. Okay. So they're still putting up with each other. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. About, about six miles in different directions. Okay. And I'll, I'll explain that a little bit during the summer, you know, you'll find these deer within two miles of water. They don't want to move. It's, you know, sometimes 120 degrees and then a hundred degrees at night. They, they don't want to travel. Yeah. And even if there's feet a little farther out, they won't travel. And they hate the sun. I find these desert bucks hate the sun. Like they might let it hit them in the morning for five minutes. They might, they hate the sun. Yeah. They, they, they don't like it at all.

So they, uh, you know, once, once the nights start to cool off a little bit, where we get down into the seventies, they start stretching it out. And especially if they have a little feed a little farther out, you know, they'll go up, you know, when the nights are seventies and the daytimes are still low hundred to upper nineties, they'll start stretching it out four to five miles. Normally from water. Yeah. From water. And how often do the, will they water when they're doing that? They, they normally two to three days then. Yeah. On that pattern. Uh, when it, when it's high temps every night, you're getting them every night. Every, you get to see them a lot. Uh, and then as it, obviously as it cools off even more, sometimes it, you'll get them where they, if they've got good moisture in the feed, they won't come in for a month. Are you seeing them?

I mean, I hate to keep stopping you, but I mean, do, do you find lions like when they're hitting every night, they're so vulnerable and we'll, we'll see a lion or two take out a few bucks here and there. And, and I don't know, coyotes here and there. I get coyotes and deer watering on the same water and I don't think the bucks really care about coyotes too much, but, uh, you know, um, but do you get lions down there messing with your bucks or you got. It, it, it, it all, it all depends. Uh, if, if, if I get a cat in the area, I will, I'll move.

It's that simple that cause, cause my deer will move, you know, that if, if they got a cat going to water, they won't share that water. No, just knowing that that cat's in the area. Yeah. The cat's out in water like you are. Yeah. So these, these deer will pick up and, and move. Yeah. That kind of complicates things, but the coyotes, not at all. Uh, I've actually had a group of coyotes come in with this buck and they watered together all summer. The buck and three coyotes watered at the same time. And that, you know, it's a community, community water hole. That's right. And it, they came every time that he did the same time and they left at the same time. Yeah. It was pretty neat to watch. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those cots are hard on, you know, does at times and fawns and whatnot. And they'll, you know, they'll pick their time on a buck.

Like if he's, if he's weak, they know it and they, they know they're going to eat soon. But anyway. It's nature cycle. Yeah. So, so yeah. So you're in on him. You figure he's two 30. You're, he's going six miles ish. Five to six miles. Yep. So, you know, I, I set in after him and, uh, at this point I'm, I'm trying to cut track and still stock. And there is literally these cuts, they run, you know, two to three miles long that they're staying in and they're only 200 yards apart. So you have to work these cuts, you know, you, you'll burn up 10 miles in a day, you know, going slow. Yeah. And the next day, you know, try to pick up where you left off. Well, they'll just jump over in the next one. I mean, you just really have a hard time. Yeah. You know, hunting that way. And, uh. Are you hunting like just mornings and evenings or are you running these cuts? All day. All day. All day.

So you're 105 degrees, whatever that time of year, a hundred and low hundreds. A hundred, a hundred, low hundreds. And trying to jump them out of their bed and shoot them on the run or whatever, whatever you got to do to kill them. Pretty much. And, uh, I, I got into his home and I could see where he was rubbing and my wife was with me and my uncle had called me on the radio and he ended up killing, uh, a big velvet typical. He's right under 200 inches. Really beautiful buck. And, uh. Doing the same thing. Just, just. Just doing the same thing. And, uh, so we, we left where we were at, went over and helped him get him out. We used to push him out on a deer cart, you know, just trying to get him out as fast as you can. When you try to pack them out that time of year, the meat just gets hot, you know, in a pack. Yeah.

So we try to leave them in there, you know, leave a carcass hole and cart them out. Uh, it's a no drive area. So you can't drive out there to them. And, um, so the next day we, we try to get back in there and one of my other uncles ended up killing a buck right before we get in there. So we go over and help him, you know, pack them out. And, um, then I went for a week just grinding and I, uh. Were they right there where your buck? I mean, was that other uncle right there on top of your buck too? He could have killed him just as easy. Nah, he was about five miles off. Was he, is it something you guys hunt together or? Yeah. For the most part, we just kind of, uh. Respect. Which is the way they, they funnel out. They just kind of split up and they pick their own little area. Cause they, they start to isolate from each other. You know, once they strip that velvet off. Yeah.

And, uh, we, like I said, I, I started after him and I, I probably put, you know, a couple hundred miles on my feet just trying to cover country and it's hot. I'm burnt up. And I ended up, there's this mid one seventies buck that was one of our target bucks. And I had him, it was a Thursday and the hunt had started on a Friday prior. And it's, I don't know, eight o'clock in the morning and I've got him at 50 yards broadside and I passed on him. I, you know, if it had been noon, I would have probably, I'd have probably been tired and went ahead and killed him. Yeah. But, uh, I passed on him and the next cut I took out, uh, working back up to where I was parked. I ended up blowing out, uh, the mid one nineties typical that ran with him. I mean, he's 33 inches wide and, uh, I missed him. He, he, uh, I just had a split second, you know, they're in these little tight quarters

and I've had a split second. And normally I'll keep shooting, you know, if I've got a decent shot and he was just a little, uh, I just, for some reason I did shoot and, uh, I watched him go across this Malapai and I, I walked over and I marked where, where they had crossed and I just decided to give him some time. And I walked out to the road and I called my uncle on the radio and I told him, you know what, I had one of the big bucks over in this area. And, uh, about two hours later we went back over there and I got on this track and just started cracking down and found him laying in his bed and, uh, he got up and I was able to, uh, to harvest him. Wow. 33 incher. Yep. So he, he's a, he's a pig.

So, so, uh, you don't like it. The Magnum calibers cause they only fit two, two shells down in the magazine, right? You want to lose four or five rounds. It sounds like to me. Well, I, I actually, I actually, uh, Crosses your mind. I actually, uh, was shooting a T70 short mag. Who are you? At the time. Yeah. I, I like, I like the speed. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a whole different ball game hunting the way you're, you're jump shooting them. Yep. So I like a, like a flat, fast round. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, I was always a fan of the two 70 caliber. And then when they come out with that, I just, you know, I didn't know much about ballistics or anything, but it seemed, seemed like a good choice. And, uh, so I ended up, I ended up killing that buck. And, uh, the next day, my wife, uh, killed that mid one seventies buck that I had passed at eight o'clock in the morning. Wow.

So, and that way pretty much. Dude, you guys are killing everything. You're killing everything. Everything, but everything, but the one I really wanted. You guys are worse than lions. Between your uncle's wife, you, who else knows? Yeah. Hard on game down there. Yeah. Well, when you, when you have the opportunity, you know, you got to take advantage of it. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And you're not passing, nobody's passing 33 inch bucks. They just aren't. So. No. So, uh, all right. So you've got him, the big bucks still alluding all y'all. Yeah. Everybody's pretty much filled tags. Everybody's pretty much filled tags. Uh, and I've got the upcoming January hunt, you know, on my radar and I told myself I wasn't, I wasn't shooting nothing but the non-typical. Yeah. And I spent a few days looking for him and, uh, a few weekends looking for him and never

could turn him up and, uh, I was, I was glassing and trying to look out into, into some flats and, uh, I never could really turn him up. And I decided to go into another honey hole of mine that, uh, usually produces some really big bucks. And my dad was with me and I, uh, I passed, uh, I don't know, upper one eighties, low one nineties three point that was, uh, broke off midway up as G2. And that was probably the only reason why I passed him, but I passed him at 10 yards. I was full draw and my dad is standing 300 yards behind me watching this through his binoculars. And I just, I couldn't shoot him. I let him go. How close, how did you get this close? Like how, was it just luck or was he on a doe or how'd you get this close to him? Uh, I, uh, I stalked into him and I was probably, uh, I don't know, uh, 70 yards from him, but

on the other side of a little gotcha wash, it wasn't a, wasn't a big wash. It was just a narrow finger that had, had some cover in it. And there was another buck there and they were, they were chasing a couple of does. So I grunted at him and he come to investigate. So I was able to draw while he was, you know, coming in me and at me and I was already close. So it was relatively easy. I've never, I've actually never been able to do that since. That's crazy. Well, and you stopped him. So you, you figure you're going to kill him, but then when it kind of came down to actually doing it, you know, I was right there and I, I just, he was a monster and any other year I'd have shot him. Yeah. No, no doubt about it. And, uh, a broken G2 probably saved that dear life because I, I, I seriously, I still thought

about it, which would have, which would have filled your tag for that year where you ended up killing the big deer. Yep. Well, no, I actually didn't kill the big deer that year. Uh, I, what I ended up doing was, uh, going back over and looking for him some more. And a lot of these desert bucks, you know, they'll gather things up out in the flats or, you know, when they're in the rut, they'll, they'll gather deer up out in the flats and then they'll, once they start really the big bucks start moving in and searching, they'll just, uh, work fingers and look, the smaller bucks will take them back actually up in little mountain basins. Yeah. And not out in the flats. These big bucks go back there and they pick them up and you never see them because you're looking the wrong way. Yeah. So I, I end up going back behind this area that I normally glass the front of and I find

him and, uh, you find the non-typical, it's January still, we're still in this January archery hunt. Yeah. Okay. It's January. I find him. Uh, he's with three doe and the wind's blowing like 40 mile an hour. So it's perfect to really perfect steel stock that covers up a lot of the noise and stuff. And he's feeding along and they go over this little pass and there's really, it's really open. There's nothing I can do about it. So I just watch him, you know, feed over this little, little hill and I, uh, watch him go into this wash. So I find me a little place where I can go around and, and, uh, possibly track up behind him and have the wind right. And I go around and I cut his track and I'm tracking and I noticed he starts curving out of the wash and it just dawned on me. He's, you know, he's circling back so he can check his wind, you know, before he beds.

You know, he wants to bed where he can see what's following his tracks. And so I cut back over to where I was originally at and I found him bedded in this little, uh, in between, in this little saddle in between these two little rolls and, uh, hard bottom winds blowing like 40 mile an hour. This deer dead. I've got a perfect opportunity. And I get in there and I, in this little finger and it's super quiet and I can, the edge of it is concealing me. So I'm below his vision and I get about halfway down there to him and I barely peek out and I can see him. Okay. And at this point he's probably 150 yards or so. You're totally by yourself. Totally by myself. And, uh, so I go down a little bit more and I try to count my steps hunched over and I put another 60 yards or so and I would peek out and I don't see him.

Um, and I'm, I'm looking, I think I'm looking at the right tree and I don't see him and I panic and I just, I expose myself. I step out and, uh, I'm looking at the wrong tree. So he's laying there at 70 yards looking at me. I've done it. Like you just get, you, you, I mean, and I say it over and over again, you gotta, you gotta just figure they're there and don't, don't do something drastic or quick or anything else. Assuming that you've blown them out cause you, cause you figure you will anyway. It's just kind of part of, part of the game. And, and then there you are, you know, rushed it. Exactly. And it's, you know, it's, it's a learning curve and heck I find myself, you know, having to tell myself to just be patient even nowadays, you know, that I've got a lot more experience under my belt. Yeah. Counsel yourself all the time.

If I had the money that, if I'd paid myself my own counseling sessions, I'd be rich. I know. Okay. So he's staring at you at 70 yards. So, so he's, he's staring at me. I'm, I'm busted. I'm in the wide open. He's staring at me. And, um, so I just draw back, you know, and he, he's laying there and, uh, how far, how far are you comfortable to? He, oh, I'm, I'm, I'm comfortable with 90. Okay. But I would don't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't shoot a deer that far that hadn't already been shot. So 70 yards is about it. And, uh, so I, I, I put my pin on him and, and I'm, I didn't even have time to range him. You're going to shoot him in his bed. Here we go. I'm going to shoot him in his bed and I let it go. And it looks perfect. And he jumps up and he runs around towards me and he's just staring at me. And I don't know if I hit him or not because I couldn't, it looked good.

But the string or, but the wind, but the wind blowing like crazy. See, I couldn't hear any whack or anything. And I'm shooting a fixed blood broadhead now. So I learned my lesson with, with the mechanicals. Yeah. And he just standing there staring at me and I'm, I guess him at 50 yards and there's one Ocotillo between me and him. And it's not even between me and him. There's a few of its little, you know, half inch branches are hanging over. And, uh, but they're up above him and I put my 50 on him. And I, I turn it loose and as luck would have it right in one of those little twig branches that hang out, you know, and it just completely stopped my arrow. And he, he runs back and he gathers his doze up and I'm thinking, well, he's not really hurt, you know, and, uh, Did it hit him or did it just the branch? Yeah. Well, I, I, I, I, well, the second arrow didn't hit him, but I walked over to

where the first arrow went and sure enough, I, I'd shot through him and I'd walked back over to where he was standing for the second arrow and there's puddle blood there. Then he had hung out up there on the side of this little hill watching me. You know, I, I just stayed still trying to figure out what I was for the longest time. So I, I kind of knew that it wasn't bad. You know, I, I mean, he wasn't hurt and, but I, but I wasn't sure, you know, there's some flesh, flesh wound blood everywhere. And I called my dad and I told him, I was like, Hey, I've got this bucket. And he comes out and I give him, you know, three hours and cause I just don't know. And there's a rainstorm moving in and we start tracking and it starts raining. And for four days, four of us stayed out there just tracking, just trying to, you know, looking for crows and, and everything.

And coyotes had even gotten, gotten on his trail at one point and he, he's not bleeding much, you know, just a little drop here and there. And the coyotes got on his trail and they were digging up the blood. Was this before the, or during the rainstorm or could you still track him after the rain? I was still tracking him after the rain.

There's not that many deer around there. So it's a little easier. You know, you don't have a thousand tracks to follow. Yeah. And I knew his direction he was going. And then after it had rained, the coyotes could still smell his blood. So they were, they were digging up his track. So it was easy for me to fall in. And I spent a solid week out there looking and I was just stuck. And finally one day I was out there in this three by four presented a shot. And I, I shot him and, uh, I went back, you know, to, to scouting and setting up my cameras and I was done for the year. It was 2013. I was done for the year. January, 2013. Yep. And he ended up coming in. I think it was end of April and he had already dropped his horns. And normally they don't drop until last of May, first of June in that range. Wow. Down here. And he'd already dropped his horns. All the little bucks had their horns still.

They were just beating the crap out of him, you know, getting revenge. And how did you know, how did you know it was him? I, I had him, cause I, I could see the hole through him on, on trail cam. And this big old, uh, his chest cavity was swollen up. He lost a bunch of his hair. He looked like he was going to die. This is crazy. And it wasn't like his face. He didn't recognize. Sometimes I recognize her face at times. Yeah, he, he did have a scar on his cheek and a few cuts in his ears that I could tell. Yeah. At this point. And he had this big infection in his chest cavity. And, uh, one day he goes to the water hole and he, he just lays down. I think there's no way this deer is going to make it. You know, he's all but given up. And I didn't see him for probably a month and a half and he come back to water and he was already starting to grow when others were still had horns. Yeah.

And he had gotten his, most of his hair back and he had a little pep in his step. You know, you can just see some life in his eyes, a little life in his eyes. And, uh, I said, well, here we go. Let's see what he does. You know, and you, every time you shoot a buck or you hear of a buck getting shot, you know, and you watch them and they make it and you watch them the next year, it screws their horns up. They don't, you know, one side will be messed up or whatnot. Loppy. Yep. Yeah. And it was a good green year and he blew up. He was probably, well, I've got his sheds and I'm going to say, I think I, I guessed him in the two sixties. I mean, he's just huge and I can't hunt, you know, and, uh, at least till the next January. Yeah. Till the next January. And I, and I just watch him and, uh, I, I got this, a couple other big bucks in the

area and the archery season rolls around and we, uh, and my, my wife actually, you know, conceded, she's just told me, I, she had a tag out here and she told me, I don't, I don't want to hunt him. Let's go hunt something else. Really? You know, you need, you need to, you need to kill that deer. I don't want to screw it up. And I was like, okay. And, uh, so she ended up killing another deer, but we just left him alone and January rolled around. Uncles too. Everybody left. Yep. Everybody just left him alone. And, uh, nobody else knows about this deer. Nobody else knows about this deer. And, uh, so January rolls around and I glass him up and he's in a good spot. I can, I can see him. And, uh, is the first time my dad was able, my dad was with me and it was the first time he was able to see him, you know, is the first time ever other than trail cam pictures.

And, uh, you know, it takes most of the day and I get in there and, uh, I know there's somewhere right there and I ended up, ended up getting to see him and, uh, he was 45 yards. I ranged him. There was an Ocotillo or not an Ocotillo, but a greasewood between me and him. It was covering his vitals. All the does, he had 20 something does with him and all of them had already blown out of the wash and were on top. It was just me and him in the bottom. And I knew he was gonna, he was gonna blow when he did. And so I, I drew back on him and I didn't, when I practice shooting my bow, I, you know, I'm always practice. I'll put stuff up in front of my target, you know, to, to play the art game. Cause your arrow is never flat. You know, you, you have shooting lanes that you wouldn't normally know that you have. And I, uh, tried to play the art game and I just missed him and I shot underneath him

and he ran right back over to where he richly was. And it was getting light in the game. I didn't want to blow him out. My dad's like, I got him, you know, you can get back in there and get on him. And this is two and a half miles away. Yeah. And I just told him, I said, no, I've had enough. He's had enough. We'll do this again in a few days. And the very next day game and fish did their sheep survey or their survey. Jeez. Because they, they can see that time of year, you know, they get a good count on them and they, they, they scattered them. They scattered the herd. They scattered him. You think they saw him? I'm not sure. You know, they, they don't see, I know they don't see half the deer for the most part because I've watched them and I've had groups of deer that they've flown over and didn't, didn't circle back over. Yeah.

So I hunted hard, you know, for the rest of the month and it was the last day of the month and I picked him up in the exact same spot where he was the year prior where I'd shot him. I mean, within a hundred yards. Jeez. And I watched him bed and, you know, I'm getting to watch this 260 inch deer through my 15s at, I don't know, 600 yards. Jeez. And I'm by myself again and I got a good steady wind and where they bedded, I really couldn't close the gap. So I had, but I knew there was no way out for him. So I went down and I changed my clothes and washed up and because I knew the wind would be iffy.

It was back in this little blocks Canyon. And I went, went back out there and I closed the distance and I was a hundred yards from him, maybe 150. And it was basically just a waiting game. And I knew he'd be up moving around soon. There's no, there's nobody out here. Not a, not a soul ever. Still. Still not. Still never. And, uh, I need to come down there. I'm just sitting there and, uh, I, I'm sitting there for, I don't know, a good three and a half, four hours just sitting there. Yeah. I didn't have anything else. And, uh, I hear voices. I'm like, what the heck is that? You know, and they're women. And I, uh, I'm sitting there. They don't see me, but I see them. They're just walking down the, obviously the buck. Yeah. The, obviously the bucks hearing them like he's listening to you. Yeah. He's listening to them too. And they're walking down this malapy and they get daddy.

And they are in wind shot. You know, they're directly downwind or upwind from this buck. And, uh, they're in plain clothes and there's this huge swarrow cactus out there on this malapy. Well, they stand there and they take pictures of each other next to the swarrow cactus. Come on. And they can see you. They're watching. They know you're watching. No, no, no, they, no, they, they can't see me. I'm hidden. And, uh, so I'm, I'm just sitting there and I hear this buck blow, you know, they, they wind. And I just watch them scale the side of this mountain. And that was it, you know, and they, the, the women turned around. They never, they never heard of the deer, never saw the deer or nothing. They turned around from that point and walked right back out to their vehicle. And at that point, I'm just thinking, this isn't meant to be. Yeah. You know, I'm, I'm heartbroken. Yeah.

You're going to ask them if they need you to take a selfie of them, you know, like it's just, it's the saddest thing in the world. You know, I'm just like, it's, it's not, it's not going to happen. You know, I'm very discouraged. And, uh, but it's almost funny. It's almost funny. You know, I, I, and, and that was it. So I, uh. Back in their Prius or Subaru or whatever and drive away. Yeah. Unbelievable. You know, they, they, and it was a mile off the road. It was a mile off the road and they walked back in there and to take pictures next to a cactus that they had no idea was there. January 31st or whatever. January 31st. And they walk right back out. Wow. And so, I mean, you can probably understand the blow that I'm feeling at this point. Yeah. Cause this is, this has been a nightmare. So, you know, I, I lick my wounds and I decide to hit it harder than ever.

And this time I'm out there, uh, not only trail camera, but I'm, I'm watching, I'm following, you know, getting a pattern, a real tight area of where exactly. They're going. And, uh, rumor was starting to get out that I was after a big buck and I hadn't seen a soul all year long. All summer. You know, I'm spending day after day after day out there. And I wanted to kill this buck with my bow. I really wanted to kill him with my bow. And I'd made up my mind. I was going to hunt him with my bow during rifle season. Um, and I, uh, day before season, there's, I mean, caravan of people coming down this road, down this main road. And I just, um, I, it sunk a little bit and I said, well, I'm not playing games. And I put bow down and I got my rifle. Do they see your truck? I mean, they know you're there. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. They know I'm there.

And, uh, they're still looking the wrong direction and still to this day, they're looking at the wrong direction. But, uh, I, uh, went out there and it took me probably about four hours to find him. And I ended up jumping, blowing him out of his bed. Uh, he's a hundred yards in a dead run. And I heart shot him. Uh, and then the wheels fell off. And I hit at that point, I was shooting a Browning automatic two 70 short mag. And he, uh, it changed his momentum. Yeah. And he's going through this thicker stuff before it gets wide open. And instead of waiting for the wide open stuff, I shoot him two more times and I'm in a panic. Yeah. I know he's hit, but I, but I've seen him get, you know, hundreds of times. So when he comes back, we skipped the trail camera part, but when he comes back and you're starting to get him August, September, October, obviously you're getting him on camera.

He's bigger than ever. He's bigger than ever. I actually, I pulled my cameras in August. Yeah. Just because of people. Just because of people. And I didn't take any more pictures. And I've done that. Yep. So, and I've since changed my patterns since then, you know, I, I do that. But, uh, I, it, it, it changes momentum. I, and then I missed him twice and not even, I mean, the wheels are falling off and I think I'm out of bullets. I opened the clip, put another bullet in there. You know, I'm hand loading. And he's just trotting across this open area. You know, I tell he's hurt, but I can't tell it bad. And it's happening fast. And I go to put a bullet in and one flies out in it and what's going on? You know, and I, I pick it up off the ground. I put it back in, I rack it in again. Another one flies out and it dawns on me. You know, I had one in the barrel and I, you know, the gears are.

You're pulling the trigger. You're pulling the trigger. Like there's rounds going off. You don't even think they're going off. You think live rounds are going out on the ground. So anyways, he goes out as he goes out of sight. I'm a wreck. My dad and my uncle are there. Yeah. Within 400 yards of me. And they, they heard the impact on the first shot. Yeah. And I start going over and I clear this little malpi ridge that he'd went over just a little hole and he was laying upside down and his horns were real white. He had just stripped them. Yeah. And he had no color in them. We're talking November. No color. Yeah. Nope. It was actually a Halloween. I killed him on Halloween, 2014. So no, he, he just, just stripped his horns and, uh, he looked like a brittle bush upside down out there. And, you know, that had dried up and the wind had blown it over. You know, that's what it looked like.

He just had stuff going everywhere. And I, I looked and I says, is that him? You know, and I, I threw my gun up on him. And sure enough, you know, he was, he was expired and he was over there. And, uh, it was, uh, it was, I was a hundred yard walk and probably the longest walk to get over to him. And, uh, I, of course I had turned him over by the time my uncles got there and my dad. And, uh, I remember sitting there and I just told him, I said, I think I'm going to cry. Yeah. You know, cause it just a lot of, a lot of effort, you know, went into him and he goes, just go right ahead, son. I will just cry with you. So, so yeah, that was, geez. Holy cow. The saga. I mean, of course, all your hometown buddies come over and help you dress him out. I'm sure. Oh no.

Oh man. So it was, it was an event, man. You could, uh, you know, if, if there was movies to be written that were popular in the hunting industry that you would sell, that would be one of them. You know, it was 14 pieces of brass hitting the dirt and you're thinking they're live rounds. I mean, I'd give anything to you. Right. And that's what happens every time it happens to all of it happens to me too. You know, pretty soon you're, you're taking an automatic and trying to single shot it.

I mean, I can totally see it and I've been there. It's unbelievable. And the funny thing is, is the whole time I didn't know his age. Yeah. And when I first saw him, it turns out that he was three years old. They aged him at seven years old. Ah. And, uh.

And he was what? So, two, two, uh. Two ninety, two ninety five and seven eights. The first year, the first year you saw him. He, he was probably, uh, I'd have to say two thirties. Okay. And then he regret, and do you have those sheds? He regressed. No, I do not have those sheds. Nobody does. They're just. Nobody does. They're just, they're just part of the dirt now. Yep. And then you got, and then he regressed to two ten-ish. And then he jumps up to two sixty. Do you have the two ten sheds? I don't have the two, two ten sheds. I have the two sixty sheds. And then, uh, it, it was a green year when he was, I would say, five, you know, but they, he was still making a comeback. Yeah. No, it, it really, really stunted him as they were four years old. But, uh, still a monster, you know, you don't, I mean, you don't even dream a deer like that. No. I mean, not down here. No, those are special.

Those are special. So, uh, a lot of people, you know, especially up from your neck of the woods, they, I mean, I know you guys have the snow and migrations and stuff like that. And, uh, we have severe drought. Less drought. We have, yeah. You have severe drought, less drought, and kind of drought. Yeah. And, uh, it's extremely high temps that, that kill deer on their own, you know, and for a deer to make it, you know, is, is special in itself. Yeah. You know, and, uh, all I ever really asked for myself is to be solid down here. You know, I, I, I, I, I turned up some big bucks and, you know, I'd shown you pictures of a big buck that I was looking at last year. Yeah. And, uh, and I, you know, I, I ended up killing a, another nice buck and I was, I was pleased with him. You know, it just, it's, uh. Not like you're trying to best a 295er. Yeah. You know, I still kill those 33 inch 190s.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Every day. Of course. Yeah. But, uh. Man, that's just, uh, it's an unbelievable story. But that's, those are those, those are the times, I mean, obviously we enjoy hunting and for a lot of reasons and there's a lot of memories to be made. But, you know what I mean? It came together for you. You earned it. You deserved it. Um, special, you know. Little shout out to Hilleberg. Hilleberg's been with us for a long time since inception of Epic Outdoors. The Hilleberg Tents, the tent maker. They are awesome. If you do like talking about tents, call them up. We're good friends with the people there at Hilleberg Petra. www.hilleberg.com backslash epic. So, www.hilleberg.com backslash epic. And, uh, check out some of their tents. You might order one online or you can give them a call and drop our name as well. They'll treat you right.

They've treated all of our people right. So, anyway, super, uh, appreciative of Hilleberg and all that they do and some of the great products they make. It's, uh, second to none on their, on their tents. Let's see. Let's talk about, uh, Outdoor Edge knives. We've partnered with Outdoor Edge. They've got some incredible knives coming out. We've all, we all like the razor knives. So, the Outdoor Edge, they do have the long, fairly stiff blade along with kind of a half blade that goes with it that you attach it to. And so, it makes it really sturdy. Uh, just been awesome. They're a great partner of ours. We really appreciate them. And what a great product. And so, anyway, you can check out the different knives they offer at www.outdooredge.com. Or ask an Outdoor Edge dealer at your local sporting goods store. So, um, is there any insight to some of that?

Like, you know, trail cameras, water, we covered the tracking. You tracked him a bit. I mean, you know, give us some rundown on, on what, what you do when you're tracking. Uh, the wind gets wrong. I mean, there's a lot of things, you know, when you're tracking, you know, and you feel like the wind's wrong. But at the same time, you don't know if he J-hooked. And so, you don't know if the wind is wrong. And there's just a lot that goes into tracking. So, you know, a lot of it depends on wind, you know. And it depends on the way that a wash will be running with the wind, you know. Or, you know, if the wind's cutting across it, say, left to right. But all you can go is, you know, with the wind. Then sometimes you can stay on the right-hand side of the wash, you know. Because if, if the shady side is on the left side, you know, you can position yourself to be able to, you know, have a chance.

But other times, you know, when it's wrong, it's wrong. Say if it's blowing right to left into the shady side. And then you're going to be on the shady side with them. They're going to see you before you see them. And so, it's just playing it that way. And tracking is, down here, it's pretty difficult. I want to see if the wind's blowing through it or if how much debris is in it or bugs, spiders. Yeah, is in the track. You know, bugs, spiders especially, you know. They'll, they'll set up little, little webs in the, in the bottom of the track. And I really look at stuff like that. And then I use a combination of just general knowledge of where they're going, you know, to be able to, to pursue something like that. And not just looking at the ground. Because if you're looking at the ground, just constantly tracking, they're getting up and leaving.

And you'll never see, I mean, you might hear them. But, but that's it. You've got to be able to fall back and maybe check that track at times. But not staying with 100% of the time. You know, and you're constantly peering off to your sides. So that's, you know, that's pretty much how I, how I go about tracking. And throughout the year, you know, I'm, I'm a big mineral buff. You know, I've got a lot of, a lot of spots that hold deer, even when there isn't a lot of vegetation. Yeah. Or, or, or there are areas that when there is vegetation that they're just loaded, you know, and it's because the mineral on the ground and stuff like that. And I will look at country in January, December and January, that's got good moisture and take pictures of that. And key in on that stuff compared to what was dead. You know, when, when I start my. That's crazy.

Sessions out for the next year, you know, that way, because you'll look at, you'll look at vegetation down here in June and you'll think everything is dead. Well, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm thinking. You guys could have 10 inches of rain and it still looks like crap, you know. Well, and, and we only get two a year. Yeah. You know, that's our average two to three a year. And so then you're within a 20, let's say 20 miles, let's just say 20 miles. You're looking at where these squalls hit within the 20 miles and you might concentrate on this two mile stretch or that two mile stretch. Yep. Yep. So what I'll do is, so what I'll do is when I'm just traveling, you know, or, or going through something, I'll, I'll say, you know, this right here is green. And then when I get to where it starts to die out and this is, this is the year prior. Yeah.

And when I get to where it starts to die out, I'll mark it. Wow. And I'll mark my boundaries, you know, this green pocket that's happening, you know, last year. Wow. So in June, when everything is dead because we haven't had any rain, I remember those areas that were green, they still have moisture in them. You know, the appearance of a plant is different from its actual moisture content. The actual health of the plant. You know, you can, you've got to be able to reach up and grab ahold of it and scratch it or break the twig off your hand. You get a good feel from it. But if you just drive by, you know, it all looks dead. Yeah. And so when I'm watching these storms go through all year, I pick my spots that were already, already had moisture in them. Yeah. During the, you know, winter months that are getting rain now. Yeah.

If that makes any sense, because that is where the dense feed is going to be. Yeah. And a lot of people, what they'll do is they won't start scouting or they won't pay attention to stuff like that. They won't start scouting until, let's say, September or first October. You know, that's when quail season opens up. That's when a lot of people start, you know, actually getting out and looking for deer. And it's actually bearable out there because it's, it's miserable. Yeah. It's miserable. So by the time they get out there, all the monsoons have rolled through and everything's green. Yeah. So you really have no clue and your deer aren't going to leave these super lush areas that were already there. Yeah. So that's where a lot of people get in trouble. Wow. And I try to, I try to focus on stuff like that.

But if, you know, if they've got a natural mineral, you know, I've actually, I watched a big buck come underneath me and actually chew up rocks. Jeez. Really? So. And is it mineral that's everywhere? Are you finding like, kind of like a natural salt lick like they have in Canada for sheep or whatever? Are you finding natural licks? Natural licks and stuff like that. It's not, it's not everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, you'll see where the water, you know, cut out a side of a bank and, you know, right off the base of a mountain or something like that. Yeah. And, you know, you start looking for, for salts and iron deposits and stuff like that. And you just changes in color. And even when those areas are dry, you'll notice there's tracks in them, you know, and, uh, they keep going back to them.

Even if you can't pick up the color, you know, the reason why they're going back to those spots is because of the mineral. Even if you can't pick out the color. So that's crazy. How do you deal? How do you deal with the heat? How do you deal? Let's say you're, you're, like you said, you're running washes and jump, willing to jump shoot bucks all day long. Are you freezing water, have frozen water bottles in your pack or how much water, how much water are you going through in a day? Give me a little run. I'm, I might take a little 12 ounce bottle of water with me. Jeez. Uh, so during the summer, it's all about climatizing during the summer every day at 1130, I run three and a half miles. I don't care what the temp is in my work clothes. And, you know, I push myself and. I call bull, bull crap. I do it every day.

No way. Okay. 115 degrees. Yuma. Yeah. Whatever. 115, 120, whatever. Whatever. I do it every day. I got a Garmin. I can send you the info. Wow. So you're, so you run, you're, you're sucking water while you're running? No. No, I, uh, hydrate before I run. Okay. If I don't drink, if I didn't drink yesterday and try to make up for it by drinking today, it's not going to happen. Yeah. So everything you do today is for tomorrow. And so I'll pre, prehydrate. And what I've found is the more water that you take, the more water you have to drink because you carry an extra weight. And then if you have a new backpack or anything on you, your body's not able to ventilate and you just sweat more. And then, you know, I, that's not, that's probably not for everybody to do. And definitely not every situation. Yeah. You don't want to be liable for 14 deaths that occur. Yeah. No, I understand this.

This time of year, this time of year, you know, I'll carry a camel pack or something, you know, or. And that's on short distances. I'm not out there stretching 15 to 20 miles, you know, away from a vehicle this time of year. No. But once it starts to cool off, I, you know, I can hydrate pretty much the day before and I don't want a whole lot the next day. And I, you know, can sip on that and I'll take some soliditos or something, salted or salted plums. And pop one of those in my mouth every now and then just to get a little boost. And yeah, that's how I do it. But I would prefer, you know, during, during the winter months, I would prefer, when I'm bow hunting, I prefer to be able to glass them up and, and put a stock on them. Whether I have a radio or not, you know, whether I'm still or not, I prefer to glass them up.

I think if you're just out there tracking and still stuck and you're setting yourself up for a lot of, a lot of failure before you connect. And another thing is, you know, I, I'll never glass something that I haven't put my feet in. I like to explore and cover things. I do get up on the mountain with my glass. I know what I'm looking for and I know why they're there, you know, and it, it makes you more efficient when you're glassing because. You know what you're glassing, you know where, you know where you're spending 90% of your glassing. You're time glassing and why. And it's because that's where all the tracks are. You can get lucky and just get up on a hill too and go and fire away and, you know, see them. But that's not the way that I like to do it, you know, and so it pays off and.

Moisture, moisture patterns. Moisture, moisture patterns. Like I said, I keep logs for, and I, and I try to do, I try to do five to eight year cycles because an animal born on a good year, five to eight years down the road. If he's got moisture in that three year window, he's going to produce, you know, if he's got the genetics to go with it. And so I try to keep a, keep a running record, you know, five to eight years, always looking ahead, you know, and I, I, I start doing my vegetation scouting, you know, one year advance. Like I said, you know, it's easy, it's easier to stay focused on deer that are already in an area before everything greens up. What, uh, well, and so what are you, what's like your bucket list? I mean, is there, are you, what are you looking for on the next buck or what do you, what's your goals on that?

You know, I, I want, I want a 200 inch typical so bad I can taste it. What's it taste like?

I don't know, you tell me.

Hey, I haven't killed a 200 net. I, I, I really want that. I'm going to be, I'm going to be disappointed in myself. I don't, I won't pull that one off. You want the gross 200 net book or you want a net 200? Gross 200 will work as long as he's typical. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but, uh, man, it's hard. It's hard to lay off, you know, and, uh, I've had some good bucks in the previous years. I had a decent, I mean, one that was pushing 200 this year that hadn't a few extras on him. Uh, that's the one I sent you pictures of. And, uh, Awesome. You know, I had, I ended up, you know, a few days later, I had my dad with me, which doesn't get around as good as he used to, uh, watching on the hillside with me. And, you know, I had a solid bucket down there below me. And I figured it was a, it was a good time to, to harvest one.

And it's not like you got a lot to choose from, you know, deer, they estimated, you know, one per square mile. And that's all deer, you know, cut 60, whatever. Yeah. Cut 70% of that out for bucks. Yeah. You know, so now you're only 30% of that one. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a vast area. It's, I mean, I mean, there's areas where, you know, people have been, uh, hunting with vehicles for years because, you know, they can get away with it. And they'll go for a week without seeing anything and that's driving. Yeah. Well, you know. So imagine if you're out there walking. That's true. But, you know, what, uh, what is kind of nice is, is you're kind of out there by yourself. Although people are finding out things, I know your footprint's bigger and bigger and you're hitting a lot of different units now and whatnot. But, you know, um, you can kind of raise a deer like that.

And so, like, it's just a matter of, and I've, and I hunt some of these places where you can't buy a lot of landowner tags or things like that because you get kind of a professional hunter who hires professional hunters or whatever. And you get a real heavy influence of, of predation from you and I, hunters. And, uh, it's harder to raise them. And so, you know, it's nice, like, where you've kind of got a, uh, I don't know, a monopoly or, or a mindset that allows you to have a monopoly out there. You can raise these bucks. And so when you find 180 inch or that's three years old or 190 inch or that's three years old or three and a half years old, you know, you could raise that deer if you wanted. You could, so, you know, not harvest 190 inch or maybe even eat a tag on 190 inch or, which it's hard to do. But, but waiting for him to be 200 and that's what it's going to take.

It's going to take you to do that four or five times maybe and allow them to get two or three years older. You know what I mean? Which then there again, now you're say you're whatever, 38, 39 years old or, you know, pretty soon, you know, you're watching deer. It's not very, pretty quick. You're 45 watching one or two bucks get to where they need to be or five bucks, hopefully. Yeah. And, and, and on top of that, they got to make it, you know, not, not only, you know, do I got to find him. And you let him go, but he has, he has to survive 120 degree heat. He has to survive. Yeah. Yeah. And the funny thing to add to the story of the big buck, uh, that next year we had a cat move in that area and killed the majority of the big bucks that were in there. Wiped out for six years. Yeah. Things worked out at the right time. Did you have your buck scored, uh, Boone and Crockett?

Uh, he, I didn't have him officially scored Boone and Crockett, but the SCI score, uh, was a Boone. Well, he, he has a Boone and Crockett score, but it would eventually need to be panel scored. And he was 292 and 4-8 net. He had three inches of deduction. He had a 208 inch frame. And yeah, he's a tank. One of a kind. One of a kind. Well, uh, yeah. Is there anything else that you want to tell us? Any other bucks that you're, that you've been following or that were major heartbreaks that maybe did die from a line or, or disappeared altogether? I, I did have a, uh, a 200 inch typical that we watched and I ended up jumping the gun on another buck and harvesting him. So I just kind of had to play the waiting game and, uh, sure enough, cat got him. So that's, and that's how I knew, uh, and that, that deer was, uh, he was probably, I don't know, between 32 and 35 inches wide, super tall.

I've got his sheds too. Jeez. Uh, but yeah, that's a heartbreak. And, uh, I get asked a lot, uh, if I would rather hunt, hunt a rut or, or pre-rut. Yeah. And I, I see on Facebook or, or Instagram, a lot of people, you know, are really worried about the rut. And, and make that an excuse to why they're not harvesting or seeing anything. And, and yes, the rut, you know, makes them, they become more available. Yeah. But it also makes it harder. They're moving. To hunt. Yeah. So, I mean, it's a lot easier to harvest a buck when he's by himself than when there's 20 other sets of eyes around him. Yeah. You know, so I think, I think that I would prefer, you know, hunting pre-rut, not post-rut because they're normally pretty broken up around here. The competition is high. Uh, two years ago I had a 200 inch buck that located and the 170 buck that I ended up killing broke him off. Jeez. Jeez. So.

That 170 buck deserved to die. Yeah. He, he, he turned, he turned into my target, you know, and then. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

A few days later, uh, Andy, Andy Dykes and myself went in and, uh, killed another big four in there that, uh, ended up taking over the herd. But. Wow. That's impressive. That's awesome. Um, well I've, you know, and as you and I talked, I spent some time, my dad drew a sheep tag down there in the Eagle tails and we saw mid one nineties buck by accident. Didn't even know what we were doing. Shocked to see him. I mean, there's, there's deer out there in that crazy country. It looks deer. It looks deer. You know, it should be deer. Yeah. Should be. You know, and they're, uh, you know, they're probably.

They're, uh, very underestimated. And, you know, they're, they're probably the toughest, hardiest animal there is to, to hunt just because of what they have to go through. Uh, they don't give up. Yeah. Well, right on. You got, uh, good year lined up. You feeling, you feeling good. You feeling up to it. Still running your three and a half miles and 115 degree heat. You ready? Yes, sir. I'm ready. I'm feeling, I'm feeling pretty good. I'm, I'm, I'm really, really looking forward to this year. Uh, so I, I kind of, I, I cut out the running long distances, you know, and looking for animals in multi-states and stuff like that. I took your advice on, I heard you say, you know, try to stay within two and a half hours. Yeah. Of your house. Yeah. Of your house. And I think even that is a poke, you know, especially down here when the numbers are super thin anywhere. Yeah.

Uh, so I've been, been staying a little closer and, you know, trying, trying to focus on fewer areas. And, uh, I do have some out of state tags, but I'm not, uh, I'm not as engaged in them as I am in my home state. Is it helping? Do you feel like honing in and keeping it tight is, is helping your chances? I mean, do you feel better about it? Yeah. It's going to pay off. Yeah. It's going to pay off. Uh, you know, it's still too early to tell as far as what they're going to finish out like, you know, that some of my bucks have some really good feet. They've had good feet all year. Uh, I've got some good age class, but you know, they, they're not even close to topping out. You know, it'll be, it'll be the end of September before you get a really good idea of what he's going to do. You're stripping velvet at the end of October, just beyond that. Yeah. So, yeah.

I've always told myself that I, you know, cause I've watched, I've watched over the years, a guy kill a big buck and then just hold off, you know, for something better and better and better. Or, you know, think that he has to match that and I, and they, you know, kill one deer, you know, one significant deer or maybe two, you know, I, I wanted to, I don't want to sit on the side of the mountain and waste my life away. You know, I enjoy the pursuit. I enjoy the stock. So it's a, it's a balancing act. You know, I, I know that I really want, I really want that, that clean, big, typical, but. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to lay some stuff down between now. Yeah. I mean, I'm going to play, I'm going to play the cards that are up to me and be in the moment, I guess.

It's all about, you know, learning from mistakes and learning from others' mistakes and building on that and, you know, making your own, writing your own story, you know, off of knowledge, you know, knowledge that's out there. You know, every situation is different. So, yeah, it, it all helps. So, what did you think about, just real quick as we're wrapping up, I mean, we talked a little bit about Mexico and there's not a lot of difference between your country and Mexico, but, but it is private ranches in Mexico. But, again, that doesn't matter a lot, that almost maybe even adds pressure down there because they're selling tags and, and it's, again, diving into the professional side of hunting where people are making a living to pay ranch leases and stuff and trying to make a living hunting. And so, you know, it adds another element of serious pressure. But what's your opinion?

I know you've spent some time in Mexico. In fact, you've even spent some time in crazy parts right there along the border. But what's your opinion on genetics and the deer you're hunting versus the deer that exists not too far from you? So, there's, I mean, you get that Sonoran genetic down there. It's a, it's a wide deer, a long main bean deer.

And they're, I don't know, but they have a little different muzzle and you can tell they're a different deer. And we, we get them, get the same deer on the, they start weeding up the further north you get. But, you know, on occasion, you know, you have a buck that will leave that area down there. Those, those deer like a little sandier country. It seems like to me, you will, you will get the occasional Sonoran that'll, you know, give up his home territory and just decide he likes it a little further north.

But the ones that we do get up here, you know, they, they have that big long main beans and, and some good mass to them. Uh, as most of our other deer are, uh, you know, they'll get good mass, but maybe they're not that wide and they'll have, you know, the longer tines and great fronts, weak backs. I don't know that there, there's a, there's a few mixtures of them around here and they're, they're getting more split up all the time, you know, interchanging with each other. But, uh, there's definitely a different, a little bit different genetic, the further south of the border that you go. Yeah. Better or worse? Just wider three by fours and crazy stuff down there? I mean, I just don't see a 295 inch or coming free range down there. I just don't see it. I don't see it. Neither do we. All right.

So, I mean, it's, you know, I, I've, I've seen other, you know, 230, 240 inch trashy bucks, uh, free range, free range. Yeah. But they are few and far between, and that's over a long, you know, career, so to speak. And, uh, it, I don't know that people understand how much it takes to make 300 inches, you know? Oh, yeah. Uh, so to get that, I mean, that was, I, I, I still don't believe it, you know, uh, two, two 20, two 30. That's, that's doable. You know, I'm not going to say it's doable every year or even ever 10 years, but somewhere out there, there's one. Yeah. Well, and it's like you said, look at how hard you've hit it, how hard you've hit it. And, and you killed an absolute monster, but then your next best buck, you know, you're talking, uh, great bucks, solid bucks, but it's like, you're still looking for that 200 inch typical, or you're still looking to gross 200.

And, and it's, and you're hitting it harder than anybody I know. That's telling me, that's telling me a lot. I mean, it tells me a lot, like, like, I don't know if there'd be another 295 incher and if there is, um, you know, what's the chances a guy's going to kill it on that one perfect year. And it's just, uh, it's just an unbelievable series of events with that particular deer, but it also goes to show you how, I don't know, lucky you were on that particular deer, but also how hard it is. You're hitting it extremely hard. You're well thought out, methodical, silent killer. I mean, and that's, and it's, uh, and I love it. I love guys that are, there's something about guys like you, um, you know, and myself at times where you just, there's something off about us where we're just doing stuff that, um, maybe, you know, doesn't get done at times.

And it's just because, uh, with that obsession and, and it kind of takes that, you know, to, to be consistently successful. And you look at yours, you're as consistent as anybody down there and, uh, and look what you're pulling out and they're great bucks, but to kill another, even buck two 2230 is a monumental feat. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. And, you know, I don't know that there'll ever be another 295, you know, or one that, one that beats him. It'll be bittersweet because, you know, of what he is and what I went through to, to finally be able to pull it off. But I will be blessed to see another one in my lifetime. It would be a blessing. No matter, no matter who kills it. What are the statistics? Uh, when was the last buck over 250 killed? I mean, not the strip, but south of the Colorado river, not including, um, Tine's buck, you know, in unit nine or something.

But I mean, what is, what, what's the last giant down there in some of that, your country? What do you consider? Southern Arizona, Southern Arizona. I think, uh, there was a 240 archery buck a little farther east from us. And then a 220, uh, central Arizona archery buck that was killed. Uh, but anything bigger than that is been in Mexico. And so those two bucks and we're talking in the last 20 years or plus. Yeah. I think, uh, I don't know how big Eric Hunt's buck was. I think it was in the two twenties. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's such a giant. So, so yeah, I mean, they're out there. Yeah. There's a couple, there's a couple over several decades. It's just unbelievable. So I, it just, it, like I said, I've got it. I mean, it might pan out, but what I've, you know, what I've come to believe is, you know,

I think I'm, I'm best working a five to eight year cycle because I, their, their prime is five to eight years, you know? Yeah. Uh, even though this buck was 230 inches at, at three years old, but he was a freak. Yeah. You know? Yeah. He was a freak. And then you, and then you made it, continued the freak streak when you freaking blew an arrow through him. Yeah. And then he grew, I don't know if he grew bigger. He started. Well, yeah, he started earlier. He shed early. So he started early. So I don't know, maybe that had something to do with it, but yet the next year he comes out even bigger and, and he had totally recovered, had, you know, umpteen months to, to recover from that wound. And so, I don't know. It's cool to think about. It's really cool. But, and he wasn't stag. Like, it's one thing, like I could see a 300 inch stag coming from your country.

Um, that, that's, that's what we thought forever until I finally found him with, you know, three does and then we didn't know if he was actually breathing those does or not. And then. But when you kill him, he had normal set. So. Yeah. And he doesn't, and he doesn't look like stag. Like he doesn't, he's too pretty. He's awesome. He's amazing. Yeah. 208 inch frame and not that weird tight velvet and obviously hard horn and shedding every year and all of these things, you know. Yeah. And, and fighting because, you know, the sheds I picked up, he, he broke part of his main beam off. And then, uh, he, uh, you know, he had the cuts in his ears and scars on the face and, you know, they don't get that from. No. Sitting out there being pretty. No, they don't. Well, right on. Well, I appreciate you spending. It's turned out to be an hour and 45 minutes. Unbelievable.

But I appreciate you spending that kind of time with us and, and sharing some of your experiences, knowledge that you've gained by being out there and doing it. And dude, I just, uh, I can't thank you enough and wish you the best, man. I want you to freaking keep laying them down.