EP 98: Tipping Your Guide with Jason Carter and Adam Bronson

You finish in one day, you give them a one day tip or would you give them a five day tip because they did their job so well you're done opening day. Be fair, be a little bit generous, it'll come around to you. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter and Adam Bronson. Yeah, that's right, Adam Bronson. We're both in the office at the same time. It's not the fall, that's been a month or two. Anyway, over a month. Chasing our tails, Adam's been killing every sheep known to men and guiding guys and hunting kids and himself up there in Alaska. Both in the middle of kids right now. It's kind of what's on our front burner. It's fun. It's a little pre-before it's going to get really crazy here. We do have some of our own deer hunts. We're going to Colorado together, that's rare. Yeah. I don't know if we've done that. We usually are in different states in different times. I don't know. We're going to line up this year. I'll be finishing up Nevada until November 5th, so you might get the jump on me in a couple of days. Maybe.

I may not hunt until last four. How about this weather? We're supposed to get some weather here in southern Utah. We're finally got something besides bluebirds and dust and sun. What if we actually had a good hunting weather in Colorado for once? Yeah. It's making us feel that. Yeah. That it might happen. Yeah. It might. It's been rough. The last couple years have been rough. So everybody that's out there, wish you luck. Be safe. Keep sending pictures. All right, everybody. This is coming at you from Cedar City, Utah. We appreciate Under Armour and the support they give us. Of course, I say that every time, but it's true. They support us in a large way, and we support them. We're buying a lot of their stuff. And, of course, you're seeing a lot of that stuff out on social media. Incredible camel pattern. Fits in well for the western U.S.

And some of their new technical gear is pretty awesome. They got the pants that are doing great. Everybody's just renting and raving over some of their gear. And so, anyway, it's been awesome. Great products. Stuff's out there on UA.com. Of course, you can buy it at all kinds of different sporting goods stores as well. So, check it out. And, again, we appreciate them and their support. I'd also like to give another shout-out to one of our sponsors, Kenetrek Boots. We've used their boots for 10-plus years. Great boots. Well-made. I've used their mountain guide boots myself. Obviously not the 2018 version yet, as well as their desert guide boots. Very well-made. Love them. Like the fit. They work hard for us on a lot of our sheet punts and whatnot. You can check out their whole line of Kenetrek boots at Kenetrek, K-E-N-E-T-R-E-K.com. Or you can call them to place an order at 800-232-6064.

Talk to Jim. As we get started, we wanted to give everybody a little bit of an update on how things have been going here in the West. It's been a little bit slow. A lot tough. A lot tough. A lot slow, a lot tough. Yeah. It has been. It's been. We've talked about it all summer. It feels like how New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, southern Utah, very, very dry. I've never seen some of the ranges I've been on in southern Utah look as dry as they do. The Henry Mountains, for one, terrible. The worst I've ever seen it look. And the buck kind of reflect that. I know Jason, you in Nevada. Brutal. It's tough. It's unbelievable. Parts of Arizona. New Mexico. Some of these guys don't even have a buck to hunt on the elite units. Yeah. Very tough. I agree with you 100%. Like you said, you were seeing buffalo. How many herds of buffalo on the tops? We're talking 11,000 feet. Yeah. 10,500.

And the thing is, they're standing around because there's no buffalo season's been going on yet. So they're frolicking up on top. Up there in the tallest grass they got, the deserts, they're barren. Yeah. And they're up there on the mountain, just hundreds of them. And they just watch you drive around them. And the archery hunt starts for buffalo starts this weekend. So they won't stay that way. No. They're going to get busted up. But it's pretty interesting. You've seen them skyline to 11,000 feet, a herds of 50 of them. It's pretty fun. You're glassing up in their skyline. It's been years and years since we've seen that. Yeah. And they've used it before, but they have found. But not like in numbers like that. Yeah. They've found the only decent feed that they can find. Yeah. Anyway, it's just interesting. It's been crazy. We've had a lot of people killing bulls.

Of course, we appreciate everybody sending us stories, sending us pictures. Lots of stuff coming in. But there's been a lot of broken bulls. A lot of bulls that feel like they quit growing after they get to their sword. And we're just seeing that from these weather conditions. Well, and the full moon, bluebird, 75, 80 degree weather has not helped the rut either. It's been, you know, the deeper it got into September, of course, they got a breed at some point. But it's been a tougher year, even for the mule deer. I mean, some of our Utah units, the famed Henrys and Poncagant, compared to last year, like in the Poncagant, was probably the best year in 20 plus years. Yeah. This year, you'd say it's worse than 20 plus years. I don't know if it's quite that, but it is extreme back-to-back. And let's just talk about the price some of these guys are paying.

And I think we're going to go into tipping, and we're going to talk about a few guided hunts here. And guys are obviously thinking about next year and booking hunts and whatnot. But sometimes you don't get what you pay for. Guys, these Poncagant tags are going 30 plus thousand. 40,000 for just to land on our tag only, not your guide fee. This is just a tag. You're in this thing, 40 plus thousand. Yeah. With guide fees. And don't kill deer. And not that guarantee. You're hunting 180, 190s. You know? Yeah. You'd jump all over a 190. You'd just. You'd. Yeah. It's tough. And it's not that next year the Poncagant could bounce back and be awesome. It's just weather dependent. There's volatility in some of these hunts. That's right. You know? And hopefully we're talking about maybe some of the mountain states with some hunts to come, like Colorado, which is second season kicking off.

And they're due. They're due for a great year. They've carried over a lot of bucks, we thought. Two terrible, you know, years like we've kind of talked about weather-wise that's been going on here in Utah. But Colorado has had no weather the last couple of Novembers. And they're due for something. And so Jason and I and some of the others in the office and probably hopefully a lot of you guys, we roll the dice and hit it big this year in Colorado. You just roll the dice every year and take the good with the good. Learn from something in the years that it's not good. Yeah. That's right. So anyway, kind of a crazy year, but it's been good too. There's been a lot of stuff killed. Just not that maybe that very top end big, big stuff. So anyway, even guys in Idaho, you know, supposed to be a good year, lots of good weather, moisture, whatnot.

We did have a 220s buck come in and it's such a great deer. And there's been a few others killed that I've noticed. But overall, maybe, I don't know. I don't want to say it's down either because we don't truly know. The bulk of the hunting will happen here starting October 10th. But it just does feel slightly off. But, you know, who knows? We're going to find out here pretty quick. But anyway, a lot of fun. A lot of sheep being killed. A lot of sheep in New Mexico and other things that are happening. Some big ramps. Like there's been, we've killed, I think, four so far here in Utah. We've got a bunch to come. But, of course, we don't have quite the ramps in these other states. But big California, big horn the other day out of Nevada. Kearney's dad, a good friend of ours. He smugged a giant. I mean, one that makes you slobber. Yeah, 176 or out of Nevada, which kills 150s.

You know, maybe 160 here and there. Anyway, it's awesome. Lots to show you guys, everybody coming up this next year in the magazine. So stuff's coming in. There are high points, but definitely been working through, I guess, a collective kind of poorer weather than optimal hunting weather conditions. But that's about to change. Well, we've been struggling, too. So I've hunted quite a bit in Nevada. Some of my best bucks are down quite a bit. Unit 231's still cranking out, and I should have hunted it this year. But anyway, maybe next year out of my way, I'll crank that one. But anyway, just a lot of those desert units are struggling. And so you just kind of cut your losses, you know. You could spend a month over there. You know what you're going to find. We've got deer named, and we know what they look like, and it's just been tough. So same thing, Arizona. I hunted Arizona quite a bit.

It was awesome. Lots to talk about there at some point. But that story is not finished yet. So we'll wait for that to play out. Anyway, so we're just cranking. The kid's got more tags. They've been killing antelope and elk and just a few other things. We may even have a kid's podcast, I was thinking. Maybe throw our sons on there. Huh? It'd be awesome. It might be. It would be fun. We tease about our wives, and we've never dared do it. I'd probably let my kid be on there before your wife. Yeah. Just you never know what we're going to get. We've got a lot more to lose.

No, we've got a lot of them coming. That'd be a highlight for them. And, yeah, we killed the buck with my boy Ty the other night. And Jason's going out this weekend with his boy. And I'm taking my kid something antelope. And so it's just kind of the week right now. They get a lot of the front burner stuff, which is awesome. And then our Utah general deers coming up will be another. Yeah. Another some fun. It's fun. They're fun. It takes a little bit of the. There's no pressure on those sons. Kids are. They just love to go hunt. Yeah. I don't know. They want to kill something. But it's not like a guy that's trying to finish his grand slam with a desert sheep. And he wants a book ram in Utah. Yeah. You know. Those are good. And we've got some great hunts. Adam, I'd like to net book here in Utah. How about that? Yeah. I don't care if they're coughing or not. Ooh. That's a sore subject.

That's another story. Yeah. You were listening to some coughing sheep, it sounded like. Lots. Yeah. Rough, rough. Zion. Zion units probably. Remains to be seen how bad. But pretty rough. They're going to lose some sheep. Yep. Okay. So. Well, anyway. Today we wanted to talk about tipping. It's a subject that's a little boring, dry, and otherwise not great and fun to talk about. But we've had a lot of questions on tipping. And so we just kind of wanted to crank it out and give our feelings on tipping. Again, tips are not in contract. You do it because you're a nice guy and you want him to think well of you. And you want to let them know you appreciate the work they're doing for you. It is something that is personal, up to everybody. Having said that, there's some general guidelines.

Generally speaking, let's just throw it out there. Generally speaking, 10% has always been the end all, be all. Everybody's kind of based it off of that. But I don't know that that's the truth anymore. It feels like that's a little bit on the light end. But anyway, let's talk about that. We're going to talk about everything. Like we're going to crank it up because there's nothing to hold back here. We know guys that don't tip. And we're going to talk about them too. Well, and you could talk about, you know, you talk about it could vary by species. You talk about $20,000 to $40,000 dollar stone sheep hunt versus a $1,500 antelope hunt. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like you do a 10%. And so let's say you go on a $40,000 stone. Are you going to tip $4,000 automatically? Are you going to do the 20%? You know, we kind of say the $10,000 to $20,000. That would be $8,000 on a stone. No. No.

No, no, no. And so that's why there's a range. And then there's also factors, you know, of the species and what you actually pay. And I mean, some outfitters may not like to hear it. I mean, Jason and I have guided for, you know, Jason 20 years off and on. Yeah. Me 12 or 15, whatever it's been. And so we've been around a lot of guided hunts. Yeah. Me as an outfitter, 12 or 15. But yeah, we've gone on some guided hunts up north. So we've been on both sides of it. But there is not a perfect standard, especially across the board. But I guess probably what we'll talk about most today is the standard, we'll just say, how about $5,000 to $10,000 hunt range, you know, for the deer and elk and things like that. That's probably what 80% of what most people are going on. Or even a sheep hunt. You go on a lower 48 sheep hunt. So let's say you go on a sheep hunt in Alaska. Let's just cover that.

And we go on to Canada. You know, generally speaking, sometimes you have a packer. Sometimes you have the main guide, a packer. And generally that's about it. Of course you have an outfitter. But, you know, if you have a great experience, you're just paying $20,000 for this hunter, $25,000 hunt fee, you know, $15,000 to $25,000, whatever. It would not, a standard tip would feel like $1,500. Yeah, $1,500 to a couple grand. A couple grand. Would be, I guess, would be. Good, solid tip. Yep, that's right. Above that, you know, fine. If you've got the means, and obviously we're talking about certain things, if you sheep hunt every single year, two or three different places, you're probably going to tip a guy a little bit more because you may want to come back over and over and have some, you know, maybe more flexibility of what date you come the next year. There's things like that that go on.

But, yeah, that would be a ballpark, I would say. I mean, you know, and that might be 10%. Well, I dropped. We dropped two grand pretty easy. And we're not. We're working, guys. Yeah, we're blue collar. We're dudes. Yeah. We're Joe Blows. We're not anybody that commands anything when we show up somewhere. But you've taken up 15 days of this guy's time. 10 days of hunting, two days on both ends for travel a little bit. Basically, he's taken one guy every 15 days. Yeah. Ish. That's right. Okay? Because he's got to re-gear, repack. Two people a month. Be reflown. Maybe two people a month. Maybe three if they're lucky. Okay. So that's a little different than, let's say, we're cranking out five antelope hunters a week or five elk hunters a week or five deer hunters a week. Or five antelope hunters every three days. Four weeks out of the month. Yeah. And all of a sudden, so it's different.

You're taking up a significant portion of this guy's life. Yeah. And it's very one-on-one, very personal. Yeah. He's got your bear protection. Yeah. He's got your life. He's packing. Maybe he's packing the spot and scope. You're not packing. You're backpacking. Sat, phones. You're spending an intense amount of time with this guy. And so it's just a natural. You're going to pay this guy. You're going to. Now, 20% of 20 grand is $4,000. That's a very good tip. Very high. Yeah. I would say $3,000 is that guy that's walking away is static. Oh, he's. $2,000, he's ecstatic. Yeah, he is. You know, $1,000, $500, $500. He feels slighted. It's slighted. Yeah. On that kind of sheep. On a $20,000. Yeah. And the 10-day, 10 hunting days. Yeah. $1,000. It's okay. He's a little bit of a cheap guy, but he's okay. That's the way these guys would feel. $1,500 would be expected. $2,000 would be expected.

Something like that. And then on a packer, you might throw him $500, $700, something like that. So you can tell. Especially if you requested that, maybe your outfitter charged you more. But even if he did charge you more to cover his day wages, those guys are usually workers. They're grunts. They carry a heavy pack. They're usually young guys. And when I say they get abused, that just means they're getting used hard. You don't get a packer that's 65 years old. No. You get one that's 25 to 30. And he's trying to cut his teeth and become a guide. Yeah. Yeah. You're not getting a 65-year-old packing out your moose up there in Canada. So anyway. And then also, you never tip the outfitter. Some guys are like, well, do I tip the outfitter? If the outfitter guided you, yeah, go ahead. It's different. And that does happen, whether it be an elk or a deer hunt down there.

I mean, myself or I, Jason, you and I, in our lives, we've been the outfitter slash guide. And that's kind of how I am. So it's different then. So it's different then. But if I'm not on the hunt, like if I book somebody on an elk hunt here in Utah and one of my guides are taking them, they don't. They don't. They should never tip me one bit. Don't tip you. Not one thing. You're not responsible for his day-to-day happiness. That's right. Not a mountain camp with you. I'm not doing it and all that. That's right. So anyway, same with these antelope hunts. Some guys go on an antelope hunt and it takes two hours to kill an antelope. You know, guys, you can get away with a couple hundred bucks here and there. That's fine. It's, you know, for a two. But keep in mind, keep in mind, you book, let's say you booked a five-day hunt. You finish in one day.

You give them a one-day tip or would you give them a five-day tip because they did their job so well, you're done opening day. You get to go home and go back to work. It's kind of a bonus. Yeah, that's right. And so I wouldn't feel bad about tipping them the full amount of what you would tip them after five days. He worked his guts out. Yeah. Have something in mind when you come as if everything went perfectly. And then if it doesn't because of lack of effort, because your guide's sitting on his in-reach fighting with his girlfriend the whole time. That's happened. And, you know, you can't engage him in the hunt. You don't kill a moose and you travel. You got 23 grand in a hunt and travel, travel, expense, all this stuff. Now, what are you going to tip this jackpot? So that's what we tell people. Take the maximum that you think both your means and the hunt, the hunt price, everything

goes into would warrant. And then if it all goes well, not just that you killed an animal, because that's, there's, you can kill an animal and get incredibly lucky and have a terrible guide, lack of effort, bad attitude, all that, and take some off his tip for it. Yeah. But those guys, I mean, it could have just been, you guys got really lucky and killed some. There was a guy, I know a guy, and I'm not going to say any names, but I know a guy. And they were hunting and his guide kept walking so far ahead of him and it ticked him off. He's like, if I, even, you're going to blow something out and I can't kill it because I'm freaking 200 yards behind you and you're proving to me how good a shape you are in. So he went up to him and he says, here's the deal. If you walk ahead of me again, you're not going to get tipped. Okay. And that guide never walked ahead of him. You know what I mean?

And it's just. And we're talking significant, like 200 yards ahead. That's ridiculous. Sheep hunting Canada and the guy's just crushing him. You blow a sheep and the guy's not there to lay down and kill him. And you expect the guy better be in better shape. He lives, he's freaking, you might be a second client now, he's got his legs under him. He's, and you're coming from Mississippi or whatever. Sea level somewhere. He better freaking be in better shape. You don't have to prove it. You don't have to prove it. You know it. You expect it. You want it. Be nice to me. If you walk ahead of me, I'm the one with the gun. Don't degrade me because I'm a little slower. Yeah. And by the way, if you do it again, you're not getting a dollar. Okay. How about that? That's right. And so anyway. That is another subject.

We have heard, you know, on occasion there's people that I don't know if they go on hunts and they don't expect that, expect or think of tipping. I don't know. Most people that go on a hunt with an outfitter, probably at least the question comes up. I mean, you know, why does she tip? There's times that you don't get tipped. There's times you don't get tipped. Do you remember those times, Adam? Yeah. Well, let's talk about one of those times. There are guys that never tip. Some of these guys are the wealthiest hunters we work with. Okay? And do we ever forget their name? No. You will forever be known as a cheapskate. And for a few hundred bucks, we're talking at the end of the day, what does it affect your bottom line? If you see them hunt. And I want to make sure, us talking about this, we're not making light. We're not trying to. No, this is serious. We're not money grubbers.

We're not that. We totally view tips as bonuses and extras. Yeah. But there is an industry standard, just like when you go out to eat. If you go out to eat, your dinner's great, and you walk away and you don't tip. It's the same thing. It's the same premise. Oh, yeah. It's not a law. It's not in contract when you go out to eat. Yeah. But we all know it's expected. Oh. All right? It's kind of the same thing in the hunting world. So you walk away and don't do it when everything's awesome. I mean, you can kill the guy's biggest elk of his life, 375. Yeah. And he's ecstatic. Yeah. And don't get a tip. And maybe he forgot and all that. I don't know what the reasons are, but it's happened. It's happened on more than one occasion to me. I don't know about you, Jason, but it just leaves you a little bit of a bad taste in your mouth. What do you mean a little?

You're just like, yeah, the bottom line is this guy, you know what he's capable of. You know it doesn't affect his bottom line. Does it affect your bottom line? Does it affect the guide's bottom line? Yeah. These guys don't. They're living. I had another spotter with me. Yeah. So, you know, we usually, when I do a group hunt, you know, you get a tip, we just split it with whoever, like me and another guy or me and three guys sometimes when we do a sheet hunt. We just split it. Yeah. Well, we don't have something to split. I'm just paying out of my pocket, paying that guy so he's got a little extra cash to go home and be happy with. Well, I just came out of my pocket. Yeah. You know, just because I wanted him to be happy. Well, on top of his day wage. You're paying him his day wage. And tipped him out of my pocket. And you tipped him. Out of my pocket. As the guide.

Because the client's not big enough to do it. Yeah. And it's just, again, not that, don't be a cheapskate. For a nickel more, you can be first class. Well. You can be known forever. You get, when you call that guy back, the outfitter, he wants to talk to you. You left an impression. Well, and in some cases, you may have hunts that you're never going to hunt with the same outfitter again in your life. Maybe it's a sheep hunt somewhere. Maybe you're going on a brown bear hunt up in Alaska. You kill one. You never go to need another one. However, you can't ever predict that. You know, what goes around, you know, kind of comes around. If you get kind of labeled as something, hey, this guy's kind of a cheap guy. He wants to just take, take, take, get all he can, doesn't leave you a tip. And you're calling him in five years from now because, you know, you want to bring one

of your buddies up for a brown bear and you want to come. You're like, the guy's not going to be as eager to fit you in and wedge you in, give you the primo dates, the best guide, whatever, versus be in the middle. I mean, we all know there's people out there that have more means than other that can out tip you or I, Jason, or a lot of other listeners. And you can't, we're not talking about people competing with that. Um, we're just talking about just be, be fair, be like you do when you're going out to dinner. Um, be fair, be a little bit generous. Um, it'll come around, it'll come around to you. And, uh, if you are hunting the same place year after year, I would really try to impress upon your mind, whether it be a deer lease, elk lease, whatever, um, be fair, or you're not going to usually get the best treatment when you get there with the best guides, the best

dates, all the, you know, just the things that you really want when you're investing your money to go back and do this. That's right. A hundred percent. I agree with you a hundred percent. So anyway, um, you can go on an antelope hunt. Maybe it's 25, let's call it a $2,500 antelope hunt, you know, 10% to be 250 bucks. If it was a five day deal, which it generally aren't, they're generally like a three day guided trip. But anyway, that would be like, you know, you it's still spending time regardless of the price. And I guess maybe it's more tips seem to be, I don't know, I guess just time. If you're taking 10 to 15 days out of a guy's life, if you're taking five days, if you're cookie cutter, assembly line, you know, you're one of my five clients this year and we've got five clients in camp, you know, it's just, it's, you can be a little more standardized.

Well, and if you, if other things to think of, these aren't, these aren't standard, but if you made it harder on your guys, for whatever reason, let's say you weren't prepared. You didn't bring the gear you needed. You didn't get in shape. You missed four or five animals. Missed four times at under a hundred yards. Yeah. Right. And so your hunt went from a five to a seven to a 10 to 12, and they were just there helping it. You need to keep that in mind, uh, that, that, that, and I'm not saying, I mean, there's stuff out of your control. We, I'm not saying everybody should come and be able to be proficient, kill something at 500 yards, one shot and be done. The guy did their job. You should do yours. We all know stuff happens, but if things a little bit out of your control, but some that's in your control contributes to a lengthy or more difficult or all that hunt, you need

to factor some of that in because your guides happen to work extra hard to get you on animal two, three, four, five, whatever, before it finally happens. If you're missing animals or, you know, whatever, whatever's causing it, that should factor in in my opinion. That's right. The guide's doing his job. You need to maybe throw him a little extra bone. If you've contributed, you know, a little bit to the, you know, to the duration of the hunt or the difficulty of it yourself because of whatever lack of whatever. That's right. And on the flip side, if a guy's, you know, if a guy's getting up late and pissing you off and not doing what he's supposed to. You're dragging him out of bed in the mornings. Don't freaking, you don't, maybe you don't tip him, maybe you don't tip him that much. Maybe you actually tell him, hey, you know what? This is what I feel.

This is how I feel about the way this hunt's gone down. Do him a service. Tell him what you think. If it's valid, if you're just being whiny, keep it to yourself. You know, we all kind of at times want to blame everybody but ourselves or everybody but the weather and conditions. It is hunting. Hunting is hunting. But if you truly have legitimate gripes, tell him. Tell him what you're going through and the way you feel. I mean, you might do it on day one and if he corrects himself, great. Get along. Move on. Don't belabor on it. But if he's still being a jackwad, then, you know, then obviously that's going to come out of his tip and that's fine. But having said that, we do know guys that are ultra cheap and they have a, they have a reputation. We know guys within the sheep industry, within even elk and deer, killed the best elk of their life, walk away and no tip, zero.

Goes on every other hunt. The guides talk, find out he never tips. This guy never tips. He's not a guy. And so anyway, down the, down the road, um, outfitters might even load that tip within knowing he's that kind of guy dealt with. I, I have a, I know a guy that is a wealthy, wealthy guy. He gets a letter, a note telling him what the tip should be. And why do you think he got that note? Because he's cheap and nobody appreciates a cheap guy. Hey, do you want to keep coming with us year after year? You need to start antying up. I don't want to be that guy that gets that letter. I want to be known as a guy that's generous. And that's generous or just at least within, at least within the standard. Yeah. You know, not substandard. Yeah. When you're, I mean, we all know, I mean, sometimes there's a hunt that comes out of

nowhere and somebody has to scrape up every dollar to go on a guided hunt. I mean, we're realized, but those kinds of guys are usually will do scrape and they'll, they'll go on the hunt and they'll leave you some money and say, Hey, when I get home, I want to send you some more because you did, you know, above and beyond. You can tell the difference. You can. It's a different when a guy deliberately leaves a low ball tip when he got made looking like the best hunter in North America that year because of the animal you helped him get. Yeah. And he, you know, just, you know, throws you a 5% tip or something like that. Just a token. But I would say if you're, if you're just going to go on a cookie cutter standard hunt, five to $8,000 type elk and deer hunts, um, 15% would be a good standard. Just, just kind of around that, you know, price range. Is that what you kind of feel like?

Just like a 15 range. You start to get into 20, 20. I mean, that 20 is always on the generous size. No, no question. And again, it varies by species. We're not talking 20% on a $40,000 sheep hunt at eight grand. We're not. Nobody's talking about that. You, you start tapping some stuff out. That's right. Yeah. Okay. So that's kind of what we wanted to go over. Obviously some guides you'll see that they, maybe, maybe they don't have quite the best gear. Um, you know, they might want it. You might give them the option. Hey, you want my binos or you want some cash? Uh, maybe they got a baby or two on the way. You never know. Hey, do you going to need some cash this year? Or would you like, uh, you know, your, some kind of wazoo QU jacket or something like that. And so there's some, there's some things where you can visit with guys. We visited with guys.

And don't use that as a way to be cheap either. I've had that happen where people leave gear. That's worse than what the guide already has. Yeah. You know, guy's got a Swarovski spotter and he, then he leaves him a little, nothing gets Louisville, but a little $300 Louisville spot and scope. You're tipping the guy's got a $3,000 Swarovski. It's just like, I'd rather have the cash. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And so, but, uh, on sheep hunts up North, especially Jason, that's come up. I think with you, some of those guys have a harder time getting it or getting it shipped to them. If you've got a piece of gear or a tent, you know, you've got your Hilbert tent up there, which are awesome. Um, you're using that. You can get one easy down here and your guides up there and his, you see the tent he's got leaking. Like I said, you're like, dude, you want this tent? You want to keep, keep it?

I mean, that's come up and you see the guy's eyes light up. I haven't had to do it myself, but it's in camp. Yeah. And there's situations like that, that it might be, you know, that'd be part of the tip. And that might be, they might be, they might revere you higher than Benjamin Frank.

Benji. Well, when I was up there years ago, years ago, I was with a guy and he's like, duck, you can have anything you want. Mine are Jason's. You can have anything you want. I'm looking, I'm like, you know, this stuff costs me some real cash. Like I'm, I mean, dude, I am barely scraping by newlywed, got kids on the way, you know, trying to figure out how to put a couple rolls of grass in the front yard. And I'm like, you know, I'm thinking to myself, you can't have this crap. It's too hard to come by. And he's like, I know up here in Canada, it's hard for you guys to get stuff. It's super hard. You can have anything you want. What does he pick? My wazoo jacket. I mean, wazoo. I loved it. And I took it off and gave it to him. Probably had a little quivering bottom lip. Yo, I came home. I'm like, you freaking getting me a jacket. That was my best jacket.

Anyway, but, you know, sometimes it just goes to show you, sometimes gear is a way to go, but it needs to be good gear. We've even, I mean, there's been rifles given. Yes, I would talk that over with your guy. Don't assume that some piece of your gear or whether it be your binoculars or whatever is what they need or want. You know, you might ask them. And if it's not, if they truly need cash more than anything, that's what you should plan on. But if you're on a hunt and you have something that maybe you could part with that isn't the end of the world and, you know, is equivalent of a tip or something like that or a couple of combinations of your stuff, and they're on their hunt and they're there for 30 or 45 more days straight, that might go further for them to the success of their remaining hunts than Benji's in a coffee can that they can't spend for 45 days. Right. That's a good point.

You don't know. You just don't know. So, anyway, something to think about. If, when in doubt, go a little extra. And you'll be glad you did. At the end of the day, 60 days down the road, you're not going to miss the money. You're not going to miss the money. You're not going to miss the money. And if you are, then you might question if this is the right year for you to go, if you need to save up just a little bit more. Because it's just better to be good about it. We remember. You leave an impression both ways, whether you're generous or whether you're cheap. If you're right down the middle, great. Good on you. It's like nothing else. And everybody appreciates you. It's like nothing else in life, like in business or whatever else. The way you run your business, the way you treat with your clients, the way you treat with your customers, you get a reputation.

Whether you're an engine repair, transmission shop, it doesn't matter what you do. Whether we're hunting consultants, whether you're a doctor, whether you're a dentist, you get a reputation. That's a great point. With however you are in the world about however you treat your clients, charge them, be gracious and all that. We all have friends that don't pay you back. Or that you have to beg. You give them something. You have to remind them nonstop or beg. And you feel like, you're making a beggar out of me, you POS. You're making a beggar out of me. It's over $300 that you're letting us. And I was being nice to you. Now I've got to keep track of shiz. I've got to keep track of it. Be good to me. Give it back to me. You know what I mean? I want to help you out. And it's the same thing, like what you're saying.

If you go downtown and you get your tires fixed, I could have a $10,000 bill down there. And I'm not saying it to brag. They know I'm going to pay it. They know I'm going to pay it. But when I go in or if my wife goes in, they take care of me. If you have a mini emergency and you're out of town and your wife blows something, and you're like, hey, my wife's going to be there in 15 minutes. Can you take care of whatever she needs? Just do it. Just do it. Treat me good. And they'll get you to the front of the line instead of, oh, well, we'll see if we can get around to it. We don't got the right guy here today. And we're about ready to close. Can she come tomorrow or on Monday? We got a full set of tires here for her. And we'll treat her right. You know? And I mean so that goes both ways. And it's just life. I guess those are – that's great that you brought that up, just life.

Not that we're trying to teach everybody life principles and whatnot. But you are who you are, and generally speaking, you don't change. And that's what we found with – I mean it's nice. There's a lot of people asking because they want to be good. And nobody knows what the standard is or they're questioning what the standard is. But, two, when you find a guy that's cheap, he's cheap for his whole life it feels like. You very rarely change people. But for the guys that are asking that want to be good, although we all have – money's hard to come by for everybody. And you want to be good to them, but you don't want to throw good money down the drain. And it's totally understandable. And so that's what we wanted to kind of talk about. But if you just – again, you pay your bills on time. You just pay them on time. That goes a long way. People know that you pay – if you are continually late.

And let's just say, do you want to – this is – if you're listening to this, hunting is a large part of your enjoyment of life. This is your hobby, maybe even your number one hobby. Do you want to be known as that guy in your number one hobby? No. You want to be known as the cheapest sucker around in your hobby? No, you want to be known as the good dude in your hobby. And, you know, power company, giving them the very bare minimum. Okay? Gas company, very bare minimum. To the cent. Am I giving 85 octite? Probably. Yeah. Okay? That's right. I'm probably not just going to throw good money down the drain on some of those things that don't matter. But the stuff that matters or what people think of you in the hunting industry and taking care of people in your hobby. Yeah. We appreciate some of our listeners giving us some ideas like this. This is something we don't often think of on our own.

But when somebody brings it up, we're like, yeah, tipping is a good subject because we get – especially in the late summer and this time of year in the fall when people are ready to go the week before and we get calls. Sometimes when we're in the field, this is like people are getting ready to go and we get calls. But what's that? What should I do? I've never done guided hunting and all that. So we get it. We appreciate it. We're glad. Appreciate the feedback. Continue to send that to us, you know, through our, you know, emails or do things like that. We want to thank another one of our sponsors here, Thompson Long Range. They've been with us from the start. Great guys. Scotty and Mark and their whole team there. Weatherby Rifles. Ask about their 1,000-yard money-back guarantee on their rifles. You can find them at Thompson, T-H-O-M-P-S-O-N, longrange.com, Thompsonlongrange.com.

Do a great complete rifle package setup. Shoot their course with them. You more or less build your gun there with them. That doesn't, isn't to scare you off. It's not like you're smeltering iron and things like that. But you put your scope on. You mount it. They help you mount it square, level, help build the load, chronograph it, shoot it there. Very, you know, boil it down for you. Very, very good course for you. Another one of our friends is Phone Scope, Cheston Davis, good friend of ours. He's revolutionized digiscoping. You know, it used to come out with just a camera and video mode and whatnot. Changed it over to cell phones. Of course, cell phones get better. He makes adapters for dang near every cell phone out there except for maybe some of these flip phones and maybe some Walmart specials. I don't know. But anyway, he's got about everything. P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P-E.com.

He's got everything you can even adapt. 10 power binos, 15s, the new BTXs, spotting scopes, now rifle scopes. So with scoped vision, you know. New this year. That's right. New this year. And so anyway, you can kind of even, maybe you can even tell what your client's doing. Some of you outfitters out there can put it on the rifle scope and see what he's doing and how bad he jerks the trigger. I don't know. So anyway, go to phonescope.com, hashtag scoped vision, S-K-O-P-E-D-V-I-S-I-O-N. Of course, there's probably 14 other hashtags out there, phonescope and everything else. You can see what everybody's doing and the support that Cheston's garnered over the years. He's got a great thing going and continues to be innovative. So we appreciate him and his support here at Epic. I think that's it. So until next time, I don't know when we'll be here next.

But been good. Been fun. We did mention Hilleberg a little bit earlier. They are another one of our sponsors. I threw that out as kind of a tip option. But I might give them a little bit more of a shout out than that. Because they are one of our sponsors and have been from the start. Make great tents. It's getting to the time of year. My little lightweight backpacking ones are getting put away because it's October. And I get cold easy. And I like these walled tents. They're not as cool in the summer months. But about right now on, they're a lot better. Keep the wind off you. These four-season walled tents. Got a variety of different options. Check them out. Hilleberg. H-I-L-L-E-B-E-R-G.com. Backslash Epic. And give you a little bit of a discount on there buying your tent. So appreciate them. We use them extensively on a lot of our hunts.

Particularly some of these later season ones especially where you need a little bit more layer between you. Instead of just mesh. That's right. Call Petra Hilleberg. She's awesome. We've dealt with her for years and years. Super nice to talk to. Knows a ton. Loves hunters. And so definitely give her a call. Of course anybody there can help you. But she owns the place. So we always tease her a little bit. Good people there at Hilleberg. Thanks a lot. Hey, like we said earlier. Good luck to everybody. We're in the throes of it. Hunt hard. And don't. You know, if you got a recent magazine. And it seemed like Jason and I were maybe a little bit. I don't know if sentimental is the right word. But a little bit. That way. In our articles at the front. Soft. A little soft. Yeah. A little bit that way. There's a. It's true. You know, as we get age on us a little bit more.

And another hunting season goes by. You don't get that one back. And since we're right in the middle of it now. Just encourage you all to bear down. Even when something's not going right. Dig down a little bit deeper. Hunt harder. We're not trying to get too soft. Not trying to get too. All that. But. Winter will be here before you know it. And we'll all be thinking. I wish I would have. I wish I would have. I wish I would have. A little more justice. I wish I would have. I wish I would have stayed. Those last two more days. Pulled my kid out of school a little longer. Even though he's failing. I don't know. Just. You just never know. But. Spend a little more time out in the hills. People you love. And. And enjoy everything. Don't take anything for granted. It is kind of crazy. We do have. I just don't want to end yet I guess. We do have a.

It's time to be thinking about your license application service. We are cranking out some people. The new guys that are wanting us to apply them. And doing a lot of those right now. So anyway. Adam and I are in and out of the office a bit. We also got Pauline here. She can help you kind of get started. If you want to call in. At least get on file. And then Adam and I can come in. And we can kind of finalize your plans. And what you would like out of your application service for this next year. We will not forget you. You will be on file. And we will crank hard on those. And so. Anyway. This is the time of year to do that. Don't feel bad about it. We are the most affordable. But yet most experienced license app service out there. And I say that with conviction. We've been doing it many many years. We live it. We're doing it. We're hunting state to state. And happy to help you.

Everything from general tags. To wazoo awesome. Great tags. Gaining points. When you should and shouldn't. Money you should and shouldn't burn. You know. We're. Pretty frank with guys. Pretty frank. You know. And you know. It's all based on your criteria you give us. But at the same time. We are not a cookie cutter license application service. We. Jason. I pick each individual unit for each guy. Based on a series of criteria. Weapon types. And all that. That we have. We take that seriously. Our job is simply not just to get you in for the draws. We realize. We don't have the magic wand. To help you get drawn. Once you're in there. But there are angles we can play. And we do try to play as much as we can. To try to get you drawn. Just. You'll be seeing it more in some of the upcoming magazines. But if you join our license application service.

Or renew your license application service with us. By December 31st. You're in the hat. For a free Red Rock Precision long range rifle. That's open to anybody. If you switch to our service. Or if you're already a member. And renew your service by December 31st. For 2019. You're in the hat. And give that away. $8,500 rifle. Give away an $8,500 rifle. Get with us before December 1st. 31st. Yep. 31st. Yeah. So. Anyway. We appreciate y'all. And until next time. Hunt hard.