EP 20: Arizona Mule Deer with Jason Carter and Matt Schimberg

It's a real love-hate dynamic. Very, very difficult country to hunt. It has produced a few big deer in the past. He's burrowed himself up under a thick, nasty tree. Anything to do with Western mid-game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter here with the Epic Outdoors Podcast. Got a super awesome guest with us here today. Matt Schimberg of A3 Trophy Hunts. Super excited to talk with him about Arizona and deer and all the kind of giants that he's been killing over the years. And guiding guys too. But before we get started, just want to throw a shout out out there to Under Armour. We appreciate them and their sponsorship of the podcast. And of course sponsoring Epic Outdoors in a variety of capacities. And so, just super appreciative of them and all that they do for Epic Outdoors. And so, anyway, let's see. Matt, as we jump in, are you there? I'm here. Good morning. Right on, right on. Really appreciate you spending some time with me here today. Oh, no problem. Anytime. Anytime.

So, why don't maybe kind of, you know, give us a little bit about your background and who you are. And then, you know, how you got started in this. And maybe a little bit of your childhood and how you got to where you're at today. Yeah, okay. Well, like Jason said, my name is Matt Schimberg. I'm a one-third owner of A3 Trophy Hunts here in Arizona.

A3's been operating for, I think this is our fourth year in Arizona. I started guiding in Arizona, I think about 14 years ago. I didn't set out to be a guide. It's kind of a funny story. I used to train and trade and work with a lot of horses for a living back then. And this is back when you could buy the 13A archery tag over the counter. Yeah. Those were the good years that we all wished we could go back to. Yeah, you could just walk into Walmart and buy a strip tag and go hunt for three weeks. How about that? Yeah, it's unbelievable. Jeez. And, you know, I actually did it a couple of times, but never, never actually put any real serious effort into it like we would if we had that opportunity. Exactly. Exactly. I always laugh at how now it's, you know, nearly a max point draw for everybody to hunt it. And it wasn't that long ago, recent memory, that you could buy that tag and go hunt.

But that's what, that was my plan. I'd always dreamed and read and obviously knew about the strip. I always wanted to go see it and learn it. And I, uh, I bought a horse that I, I bought a colt that I broke and, uh, and sold. And I was going to use that money to pay my bills up for about a month or six weeks and go to the strip and scout and, and hunt that 13A tag and, and just really get to know the place. And I, uh, oh, long about June or July of that year, I ran into an outfitter from Prescott there and, uh, got to talking with him and he talked me into guiding an archery hunter instead of hunting. And, uh, I think I guided 10 hunts for him that year and. Wow. And never looked back and here we are. Wow. And so when you guided, did you mostly just guide like mule deer hunters on the strip, 10 hunts, or did you do like antelope elk and different things like that?

Yeah, no, when we got started in Arizona, we, uh, we did everything and anything that there was, we hunted, you know, from the, from the archery deer to the archery elk, to the early rifle elk, to, you know, back to the strip from, for, you know, three weeks of scouting before the rifle hunts then. And then 13B, 13A, um, usually it was a late elk hunt back then versus a late Kaibab. Um, and then, you know, over the counter archery deer in December, Mexico in January. Um, yeah, it was kind of all over the board. Holy cow. And so you went from basically training horses to guiding 10 hunters the first year you got going. And then after that, you just kept cranking and mostly guided. Exactly. Yep. Mostly, uh, mostly guided during hunting season and rode horses in the, uh, in the off season. And that's, you know, more or less what's still, what I still do today. And that's crazy.

And so, um, talk to a little bit about like, um, did you always have an affection for mule deer? I know we're going to get into the mule deer really heavy because I mean, that's, that's what I know you for. Of course, I'm kind of into mule deer. And so I've followed you over the years and, and kind of, you know, jealous of some of the giant stuff you put your hands on. Likewise. Likewise. But, uh, but before we really dive into the mule deer, so you guided antelope elk and, and different things. And of course elk are cool and there's, you know, always something, uh, about putting your hands on a giant bull. But I mean, you know, was it, was mule deer something you just kind of read about or did you actually, you know, always kind of have a heart, you know, set for mule deer? Yeah. I, uh, I always had a, had a thing for mule deer.

It was kind of what I could go find out my back door where I grew up. Um, you know, I was fortunate to have a real good friend early in life that, uh, that probably taught me more about hunting than anybody else. Um, knew the value of optics and he was just completely infatuated with mule deer before I knew anybody else that ever was. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, so spending a lot of time with him and, and, and then I worked on some ranches and spent a lot of my childhood on some, on some big ranches in Arizona that had big deer on them and, and, uh, and not so many elk back then. Um, yeah, so big, big mule deer bucks were just always something that, that lit me up. And I always just kind of gravitated towards, towards them, you know, as I, as I started guiding and started guiding more.

And, you know, mule deer is always where I, where I spent most of my time and kind of specialized in, so to speak. Yeah. Well, and, uh, and so when you get started, you know, now we're working on draw tags and it's hard to get these tags. And, you know, a lot of these guys, you know, with the non-resident limitations, it's generally a, you know, once in a lifetime, or at least thought of as a once in a lifetime opportunity for non-residents. And, you know, I'm sure you're working on the draw and, and somewhat tough to know if you're going to, you know, have full work. So you guys back in the day were, you know, doing elk and antelope and anything that was coming along. But, but now, I mean, fast forward to now, I mean, you're part of A3. Of course, A3 is known for killing giant elk, giant coos deer, giant mule deer, um, sheep, a little bit of everything.

But, uh, you know, you being one third owner, I mean, are you concentrating on the deer portion? Are you doing all of it? Yes. I, uh, I most definitely concentrate on the deer. I, uh, I live in Fredonia, Arizona now, um, right up here where, you know, where all of our northern Arizona mule deer hunts take place. Um, I kind of head up the, uh, you know, the summer scouting, um, everything that leads up to the archery hunts and, and the rifle hunts. I do occasionally drop down south of the canyon and guide an elk hunt here and there. If, uh, if it's somebody, if I'm needed or, or, uh, you know, somebody that I know, but it's, uh, for the most part, it's, it's 90% mule deer for me anymore. And a little bit of coos deer in Mexico in January, December and January, but, um, yeah, it's about 90% mule deer for me. And so are you branching out?

Like you're pretty much, you'll do the kind of archery. I mean, you do kind of 12 beats. So 12 a West 12, a East 12 B 13, a 13 B is that, I mean, anything North of the Grand Canyon. Is that what you're doing? Yes, exactly. We've, uh, we do, we pretty much every hunt North of the Canyon. Like I live in Fredonia here. We've got, you know, James and Milo who live in page. We've got Woody and Asher who live in St. George. Um, you know, we kind of got it surrounded and, uh, you know, and it's taken us a number of years to get these guys put together, but, uh, you know, we've got them now. Everybody's, everybody's banking years of experience and, and I feel our, you know, our mule deer offerings are better now than they ever have been. Man, that's crazy. And I know, I mean, you've obviously spent, you know, as much and probably more time than

any others, you know, significant deer hunter that's guiding out there that of anybody I know. And, and, uh, you know, so now to be able to put it together and have a good crew and, and then move up to Fredonia. I had just heard recently, maybe the last six months you moved to Fredonia. How long have you been there? Um, I moved to Fredonia last September. Oh, right after the, uh, right after the archery deer hunt ended. Okay. All right. And, um, that's just pretty much following deer. Like you're moving to where you're hunting deer. Exactly. It's just, now I can, you know, I can literally be looking at, looking at deer within, you know, 10 minutes out my door and, and before it was a seven hour drive. So I, I'm definitely closer. It's unbelievable. So, um, so tell us, talk to me a little bit about, um, you know, what it's taken over the

years to get to the point you're at some of the deer you put your hands on, but just the effort, you know, from 14 years ago. I mean, a lot has changed. You know, I mean, let's face it. I mean, you and I've seen everything from, you know, guns that barely shot 300 yards to now we're shooting 1300 yards. And, uh, you know, same with archery equipment, trail cameras and glass and an optics. And, and we've learned a lot back in the day, you and I, I mean, we both track deer and, and a lot of different things, you know, but, but talk to me about when you first started, like how all that went down and, and what your days look like and how much time you spent out there and all of that. Um, yeah. Um, you know, when we first started, it was obviously, um, before the trail camera boom, I don't think I even knew what a trail camera was.

Um, and so it centered around obviously, you know, early morning, late evening glass. And so a typical day back in the day was, uh, you know, we'd usually just camp out of the truck. We'd always camp someplace, you know, close and handy to where we wanted to look that morning. Um, you know, we wake up, hike our knobs, give it a good glass. Um, after the morning glass was, was burned up, we spent a lot of time running roads, checking waters, finding big tracks of unknown bucks that we thought we wanted to find and see. Um, so, you know, there wasn't a lot of downtime. We, you know, the strip is a gigantic place. You throw the Kaibab and 12B on top of it and it's, it's even bigger. Um, so we spent, you know, mid days where we spent a lot of time checking waters. I mean, that's what we did. Finding tracks that were big enough to catch our interest and make us want to find the

deer that was making them. So we, uh, you know, we track a lot of fresh tracks in the middle of the day, see if we could jump bucks, see what they were. Um, you know, check waters, put plans together where we wanted to, uh, where we wanted to look that night and the following morning. Um, we did do a decent amount of spotlighting in the middle of the night back then. Um, still do, but, uh, but even more so than, um, it was funny. I used to keep a journal of, uh, of, uh, every, you know, at my, every day that I spent out there at the end of the day, I'd write down what I did. And, uh, I was reading through it the other day and there was an entry in there that I think I was in 13 B and it was mid July. And I'd, I'd glass that morning and that night. And I think I'd, I'd seen a total of, of like two bucks that day. And, uh, and then went spotlighting that night and saw almost 40 bucks.

That's crazy. Right. Right. And so how, tell me about the journal like this, like how many, did you keep it for multiple years? Was it something you wrote in every day? You know, I, I, I wished I still kept it. I don't, I kept it for probably the first three years. Yeah. Um, and it wasn't anything elaborate. It was just a jot down as to, you know, where I was that day, what I saw. Sure. Um, more or less that was it, but it is kind of funny to go back and read it when, when, uh, yeah, glad glass two bucks and spotlighted 40. That's unbelievable. Well, you know, as you know, I mean, that desert country, it's, it's hot in the day, even it's hot in the morning. They're, they're just out at night, you know, and exactly. And, uh, well, um, so what back then did you spend, uh, you know, the entire month of July, August, September?

Like, I mean, I know, you know, you're probably, you don't know, you didn't know, it back then, like you do now, of course you've had 14 years to really, you know, get after it, but you know, well, I mean, how much time did you spend and, and trucks that you went through and gear?

Yeah. You know, back then I would land on the strip about, about July 1st. Um, that was always still is my most favorite part about, about my whole career is the summertime scouting when, uh, you know, you're, you're either often by yourself or with good friends or however it may be, but just velvet bucks and summer days, that was always the highlight of my year. Um, so I would start, we would start about July 1st, give or take, and really, really put a good, you know, a good effort in prior to the start of the archery hunt. Um, and as well as all that scouting rolls into, you know, the rest of the year as well. So we would, we would wrap up the archery hunt, um, and we would drop back down. We'd guide archery elk and generally early rifle elk, which would free us up again in early October. We usually just go straight back. Um, me and a good friend, his name is Brian guys.

Well, you probably know him, Jason. Yeah. In fact, I'm sure you do, but yeah, this was all me and Brian back then and, uh, go straight back up, you know, early October and, and just scout, scout, scout right up until about three weeks or a month, right up to the start of the, you know, the 13 B rifle hunt, which was generally around the started roughly around November 7th or so. Um, and yeah, we would, you know, back then I was getting, I was getting about three years out of a truck, um, at the most, of course we rode quads everywhere. That's what you did. There wasn't any side-by-sides or Suzuki Samurais or anything. It was a quad. And, uh, yeah, so we wore out, we wore out a lot of quads. Um, you know, I can definitely give Honda quads a good plug and say you can get 35,000 miles I don't want to be more than any of this. Come on. Are you serious? 35,000 strip miles?

We have in the past, yeah.

Holy cow. Um, well, that's cool. And so, yeah, Brian, all I remember from you guys is seeing like sunburnt pictures. You guys were both just, you know, skins falling off, sunburnt from spending days out there. And it always made me wonder, you know, I mean, you could see it on your faces. Of course, you're kind of grinning because you're sitting behind a giant, but, um, you know, those sunburnt faces told me, you know, tell the story that you basically lived out there for two months. And I always wondered how much time, like, did you guys have a family life? Did you just, I mean, leave mama at home or, I mean, were you married or, or did you just live out there like for 30 days out of the month? You know? Yeah. I mean, back then I, I was not married. Um, I was single and I, I lived out there. I mean, I, I hated to leave the strip. And when I got home, I couldn't wait to go back.

And, uh, you know, of course the guy, the guy does get a family and it kind of, that all kind of comes into regulates itself. But, uh, but yeah, it was, that was really all I wanted to do. It was all I thought about. Um, I was at my happiest just out there, you know, alone a lot of the time and just doing whatever I wanted to do that day and seeing what we could find and how big we could find. And yeah, yeah, that was, is there, um, how has it changed over the years? So like, I mean, back then, obviously you glassed up a few great bucks and maybe, maybe a few of them you got to put your hands on, but it also, it just feels like people are more successful nowadays. You know, we've all taught each other a little bit about, you know, being persistent and hunting one deer for a month or hunting one deer for the entire season if they draw a tag and,

and, you know, versus a governor tag or something. But I mean, how has that changed? I mean, are you putting your hands on more big deer? Do you feel like, um, yeah, you know, I, I think that it'd be possible to talk about the changes today without talking about the trail camera. And, you know, that, that as well as all the things that you just mentioned, uh, you know, we've all learned how to be better hunters. We all have better equipment. We all have a lot more options and things in our arsenal that we might not have had back then that makes everybody more successful. But the, you know, trail cameras have changed the, as you guys well know, have changed the landscape completely out there. I mean, it's a completely different dynamic as, as to what it was, you know, prior to them. There's, you know, of course not, not, you know, everything doesn't get found out there.

Um, the majority of it does. And when, you know, when you have, you know, multiple, multiple people trying to accomplish the same goal, finding the same animals, it, uh, or most of the same animals, I should say it, you know, it does, it changes the whole dynamic of the hunt and it's, uh, in both positive and negative ways, in my opinion, it's, you know, everybody's, everybody is, is hunting giant deer these days that, you know, very, very few people are starting out, you know, starting out without a really solid plan to do, you know, in front of them. Um, it's, you know, it increases the, uh, it's increased the pressure on the top end bucks just enormously. It's increased the, uh, the, uh, the competitive aspects, so to speak amongst, amongst all of us. And sure. Yeah. And so it's, it's just a, there's just a different, it's just a different hunt now that, you know,

than it was before the trail camera got involved. Well, and that's the thing, you know, we've seen a lot of change. I run a lot of cameras. You run, you know, a fair number of cameras, I'm sure. Right. And, uh, and that's just part of being, staying competitive. And of course we want to put our hands on the biggest animals and, and some of it comes, um, almost an expectation. You've got hunters that draw once in their life. They expect you to be the best at what you can, you know, what you're doing. Exactly. Um, compared to your competitors and it's, and it is, it's an industry. And, uh, and so, yeah, like you're saying it, it, it sometimes, you know, I feel the same way. But there's nothing like coming up to a trail camera and seeing what's on it. It's like trapping. Right. Exactly. Like, what have I, what do I got on this thing?

And, and, you know, a particular buck you've named, you know, you know, uh, what is Joe going to be this year? Right. All kinds of that. And there's, it's like Christmas. I freaking love it. Exactly. You know, but having said that, and maybe you can share part of this is I love the deer more than I love that, you know? And so if the trail camera is hammering on deer, I would rather see more deer live and die, die of old age and live at a complete life rather than, you know, be hard on the deer. I really, I really love the deer, even though we're killing them and we're responsible for a certain amount of them dying. You love them and respect them. And, and exactly. Yeah. The trail cameras changed that dynamic and you and I, you know, we're hunting big deer before the trail camera came around, you know? Right. But having said that, when you're running that trap line, I call it my trap line.

When you're running the trail cameras, of course we're glassing morning and evening and then running trail cams midday, even into two in the morning, we're running, trying to get everything caught up, but it is so exciting to see what's on there. And so it's a real love hate dynamic. That's exactly what it is. I mean, it is extremely exciting. It's, uh, you know, one of the coolest things is knowing, is knowing what's really out there and what's, what's young and what's coming up and what's old and what's going over the hill and what you're focused on that year. And, uh, but yeah, the old, you know, the older, the older day and the older way is still holds a pretty fond place. Well, for guys like you that spent just months out there at a time and, and endless days and hours and stuff, you're still, you're still going to be successful. You're going to go out there and find giant animals.

And so, you know, it just changes things. You know, the strip and, and I, and I've been out there a little bit, nowhere near what you have course. Um, but, uh, it was one of those places that, um, even though there was access and there was roads, it was still crazy wild. It was deep desert in the middle of nowhere. Don't want, you know, take three extra spare tires, you know, and one of those wild places that, that we all had a huge amount of respect for. Now it feels like, I mean, it might as well be a paved road out there. It's not obviously, but there's a lot, a lot of activity, you know? Right. Exactly. Yeah. Back in the day, I mean, you could go, it wasn't nothing to go eight or 10 days and not even run into another human to talk to you. Um, you know, now you might run into three or four a day and, uh, yeah, I mean, it's just changed. It's more popular.

And I, I understand that everything, you know, everything evolves, everything changes and younger guys grow up and, and it all changes, but yeah, there used to be something just to be said for, you know, you could crawl up on any knob you wanted out there, any mountain top, any, any high point and sit down and, and you just get that feeling would set over you as, you know, as to what, what might I possibly see today? You know, more than likely nothing, but there was a, you know, there's just always the chance of seeing something that, that makes your dreams come true. And, and of course we, we still have that. It's just, yeah, it's just, it's just different. It's different. Yeah. So do you find yourself like if, and I don't know, you know, and you and I haven't talked much prior to this podcast or anything like that, but like, I find myself like, I want to find a deer that nobody's found.

I want to be in the middle of nowhere. I want to find a new water hole. I want to find a new, a new spring that pops up or different things, you know, the earth changes and, and I'd like to be on top of that. And so do you find yourself like, I know the far South country of the strip or somewhere just, man, like people are not going to come this far and work this hard. I mean, do you find yourself still doing that? You know, just keep pushing the limit. Yeah. And I do. And, uh, in fact, me and me and Beth were just, just the day before yesterday, we're out in some stuff that I've spent very little time in up here. And it was, and we found some big buck tracks. So we're, we're excited to go back, but it's, it is shrinking. Um, yeah. You know, when you, when you talk about the, there is still some of that exists, you know,

the, the little, the little pond that doesn't see much, it doesn't see many people or the spring or the seep or the way, you know, the far outlying areas where, you know, deer density is so low that nobody in their right mind would go. Um, you know, yeah, but it's still, that's still shrinking today. I mean, there's, there's still, you know, it's still encroaches a little more each year to the people's efforts, our efforts. Um, so that's a finite deal. I mean, it's going to, the dark corners are going to go away at some point in time, but yeah, as of today, there's still, there's still places you can go and find some deer that nobody else has. And, and, uh, you know, hunt alone if you want to. Right. Tell me a little bit about, um, now that you're working on the Kaibab pretty heavy, of course, you know, you probably always have, there's, there's big deer on the Kaibab and, and of

course the genetics are amazing and, and whatnot, but, uh, it seems like the strip's always kind of been the place to produce a little better deer, but, uh, or at least higher numbers of them. But like, how does that change now? Are like, are you, are you fond of the Kaibab, something you're working hard at, um, as well as the strip? Yeah, yeah, we are. And, and, and mainly through guys that we've, you know, guides that we have working with us now. The Kaibab is, is, uh, obviously it's got all the potential in the world. It's got, um, as good or better genetics in the strip. It's always had a tag number problem. It's always had an age class problem. Um, or not always, but in, in, in my recent, you mean too many tags, too many times. Yes, exactly. Too many tags issue. Didn't they have, um, you know, adjusted those some and, and putting the RCA, um, and, and

the country on a draw, I believe helped. Um, as well as I think we're, we're going into about our fourth year in a row of, of, uh, you know, average or above precipitation, um, at least in the springs in the summer. So, you know, it's still, it's still, it'll never be the 13 B tag. Um, you know, if it, if it keeps going the way it's going, it could, uh, yeah, I mean, it's getting better every year. I mean, it's, it's gone from a one 80 to a one 90 to a, to a 200 plus type hunt these days on the, on the late hunt. There's just, you know, the age class is growing and the number of good bucks around are, are increasing. Hopefully that, hopefully we can stay that course and keep, um, you know, the tag numbers are the big thing. And that's, that's just like on 13 a, um, you know, this year there's, I believe there's

a 10, a 10 tag reduction on archery and a 10 tag reduction on, on the rifle hunt, which doesn't sound like a lot on face value, but, um, you know, that's out of those 20 tags reduced, there's probably, you know, 16 bucks that'll live on. And that's, that's, that's actually significant, especially in that country. Pretty big deal out there with low densities. Right. Exactly. So yeah, that 13 a archery is looking at like 15 total tags, which is pretty cool. Like, I mean, it's, you know, bad for the opportunity and, and for the drawing odds. And of course, you know, all of that, but at the same time, like if you love deer, which we love deer, it's good for seeing a few deer live and get another year, two, three years of age. Exactly. So the opportunity, the opportunity, uh, the opportunity crowd is, they probably don't like me much.

I'm, I'm, I'm all for reduced opportunity and bigger deer, um, or older deer. And they'll probably hang me for that, but that's, and you know, and when the guys finally end up with the tags, they like, they like, uh, you know, less opportunity and older deer too. Yeah. Well, to maintain these older deer, you know, to maintain a good age structure, at least old deer. And I love deer that die of old age. I love that. But, um, you definitely, you know, you definitely have to, uh, uh, reduce tags. If you're going to have, uh, the latest technology, you know, if you're going to be using trail cameras, using long range, using the big, the big eyes. And, and all of the state of the art equipment, as well as, you know, feeling like nobody has a job and everybody can spend 30 days out there, you know, and a team that spends 30 days, a team of guys that don't have a job and unlimited gas funds.

Right. Right. So anyway, that's an excellent point as far as the, you know, tag numbers matching the advances that, that we've all made with technology and all that. That's, you know, and that's something we've really not seen. And we've seen, we've seen advances in technology, a bunch and, and advances in tag numbers as well. So it's, it's, it's good to see that they're leveling off and potentially coming down with the tag numbers. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if maybe they're just listening to everybody and, and when it's hard to get an accurate count of how many deer are out there and it's hard to do a accurate, you know, average age and, and get all that data. And so it's almost a social thing, you know, listening to people. Exactly. Exactly. What's your opinion on like the 12A East nobody ever talks about?

And, you know, and I know it's, it has produced a few big deer in the past, but I mean, is it, um, what's your opinion on that? Is it, is it looking as an upswing as well as the 12A West side 12B? Yeah. I think, I think that it's all in an upward trend. Um, we usually, you know, we usually take a couple of guys on the East side each year. Um, we've done really well in recent years. Um, you know, they keep the tag numbers about where they ought to be on the East side. And, uh, and I think it's got, you know, with some of the guides that we've got that, uh, that spend a lot of time in 12A East, um, you know, and hunt that hunt each and every year and also live right there. It's, uh, it's, uh, yeah, I mean, I would take it over the West side. Um, personally, I don't know that it's, uh, I don't know that it's leaps and bounds better,

but, but less people and, and less tags and less competition and less activity. Um, you know, yeah, they just, they keep those tag numbers about where they ought to be. I think, yeah, there's not much, I mean, you're talking that late hunts running 30 tags, right? You know, there's just not a lot of, not a lot of pressure. Whereas, you know, the, the West side on that late hunts running, you know, a hundred. Exactly. And I think the early is like 500 on the West and what is it? 130 on the East. Yeah. They've actually changed it. Look, well, it's, it's actually hovering around 95, you know, versus 500, like you say. I mean, they basically summer up on top together roughly, you know? Right. Right. And, uh, and so anyway, but it sure does seem like, you know, I don't know that East side's always kind of, uh, intrigued me. I don't know anything about it.

Never have spent much time on it at all. Right. And I, uh, I haven't spent as much time on it as I, as I would like to. Um, but I know that some of the bucks that George and them have killed off their last few years, it's, it's a fantastic hunt. Yeah. You bet. Well, good. And so I know, uh, you did bring up precipitation, which is huge where I hunt. Of course, um, you know, there's high country guys that love, you know, region G and H and in, in Wyoming and in high country in Utah, high country in Colorado. And that's good. And it doesn't, but it doesn't feel like maybe there is drought sensitive as, as we are where we hunt, which would be Arizona, Nevada, Southern Utah, uh, even New Mexico, some of them. But, um, just wondering what your opinion is. I mean, like this year, you gotta be so freaking excited to get out there. Oh, geez.

And see, you know, watch 200 inch deer grow to two 40 in one year, you know? Right. Or even I've had 187 inch sheds go to two 37 gross. It's just crazy. I know. You get a deer that jumps from four to five plus add moisture. It's just crazy. And just some of your thoughts on that. I know you said, you know, of course we had four good years and last year was a good year in some of the country I hunted. And it feels like this year's teeing up to be better, you know? Right. And I, I think that it is. I mean, it's, we've been, we've been pretty much all corners of the strip already this spring. Um, it looks, it looks, you know, a scale of one to 10, it's a, between an eight and a 12 about everywhere you go out there. Um, so the spring is, the spring is going to be phenomenal. What's, what's equally as important in my opinion is the, the prior year summer and how

the deer, you know, the feed they had going into the winter, which, um, you know, we've had some really good summers in a row out here, which just, in my opinion, as far as it relates to antler growth and precipitation, it's all, it's kind of a big, a big snowball effect, so to speak. I mean, you, you build off the prior year, um, and roll into a spring like this where, you know, everything this spring is going to be as fat and as sassy as it can possibly be. They're not going to have any body condition worries. They're going to be able to pump everything into their antlers that they possibly need. Um, so as far as the, uh, the condition of the, you know, the habitat and the range for these deer up here, it's, it could not be any better. The Kayabab looks phenomenal. Both the, you know, the winter ranges is just got headed out. Feed just blowing in the wind right now.

And, and the top is, is, you know, already green as a gourd as well. So it's, it's nice to have years when antler growth worries and concerns are not a factor. Yeah. Um, and you don't, you know, you're, we get a lot of guys calling and consulting with us about, you know, should we apply? Should we buy a point? And, you know, just to just eliminate antler growth as a, as a problem is, is really nice. And this year is definitely one of those years. I don't think we're going to have any, any antler growth problems whatsoever. Um, I expect all units up here, um, to have, you know, really phenomenal, phenomenal hunts through all the seasons. You know, even some of those, even some of those early Kayabab seasons should probably show some, some improvement just cause, you know, it is, it is so healthy. And these deer have literally shed their antlers into inch deep green grass and, and, uh, you

know, they've just been packing it on ever since. So that's crazy. I did spend super excited. I did spend a little time turkey hunting up there this last past weekend, of course, on the youth hunt with my kids and, and it was, it's unbelievable. That mountain is, is crazy. Of course, I'm up there and up on top, you know, especially in the West side, there's no understory. There's just like trees and it's just a clean forest, you know? And I just wonder what these deer eat that make them so big. Like I don't see fields of bitter brush like you have out there on the strip, you know? And I know, I know it's a crazy place. Yeah, it is. It's, uh, you know, whether we see it or not, they know where it's at and they go to it. So yeah, it's, uh, yeah, no, we could not be more excited in for our elk too. You know, it's, it's shaping up to just be one of them, one of them good old years where

everything's fat and happy. Yeah. Especially with those elk seasons, the archery season being dark part of the moon, latter half of September, it's just going to be incredible. So of course, yeah, you guys, you guys know all that and probably have named bulls that you're excited to look at. So, right. Right. Tell me about the different season options. So of course, we've got the early archery, we got the, you know, on the Kaibab we'd have, you know, in 12B to have, uh, you know, kind of an earlier rifle and then you've got the late rifle and, and then on the strip, we've just got archery and one rifle season. But, you know, tell me about the different options on those. What's, you know, the good, bad, what you see, if serious archer should really consider doing archery or does he wait to do rifle? I mean, what's your opinion on some of that?

You know, my opinion on the, uh, on the archery hunt is, is that if a, if a guy is an experienced archer or even if he wanted to become an archer, the archery hunt on the strip is, is in, in my opinion, as far as being able to target a big deer and likely get it killed, the archery hunt is, uh, is better in my opinion. I prefer it for, for going after a particular deer and getting it killed. Um, guys that, you know, we do run into, uh, you know, a certain number of guys that are discouraged with applying for Arizona, you know, say the 13D rifle tag year after year and get rejected. So they'll, they'll draw the archery tag, um, as a means to acquire their tag. Um, you know, less than the fact that they're, they may or may not be an archer and guys like that have trouble. But if, if a guy is got any sort of confidence with a bow at all, the archery hunt on the strip is a phenomenal hunt.

Um, much easier to, uh, to get lost in some country by yourself and have a big deer to hunt that, you know, you kind of have to yourself more or less. And, and they're just obviously a lot more patternable that time of year. You can find them, you know, usually more days than not. Um, the season is three weeks long versus 10 days. Um, so for guys that like to shoot a bow and, and shoot a bow, well, the archery hunt is the best hunt in Arizona, in my opinion.

You know, where's obviously the, you know, the trade-offs to the rifle hunter obvious, but, uh, you know, the rifle hunt is, is, you know, we lose a certain number of bucks to the rut. We also gain a few bucks, um, a few bucks to the rut. And we still do obviously target, you know, particular deer and, and generally get them killed on the, on the rifle hunts as well. But, um, me personally, you know, for the extended season dates, the pattern ability of the deer, um, and the effectiveness of archery equipment these days. I mean, the archery hunt is, is, it is a one in a million kind of a deal. Wow. You know, and we find that in Nevada and Southern Utah as well, but it's always kind of interesting. Well, and just to expound upon maybe what you're saying on losing deer to the rut is basically, I mean, you pattern them, they take off, they're, they're within 10, 20, 15 miles looking for

a hot dog, but you lose them, you lose track of them. And then. Okay. Yeah. You know, those strip seasons, you know, they, they co- they, you know, they co-excide more or less with the rut pre-rut leading into full rut. Um, and yeah, like you just said, I mean, you can, you can pattern these bucks, you know, more or less all year long. And then, and then the month of November, they might just be gone on you. But, um, you know, and some bucks will, will summer and, and rub and rut and shed the Rantlers on the same ridge, it seems like, and not, you know, it's just every deer is an individual. Some seem to roam a lot. Some don't, um, you know, even in country where, where doe densities, you know, equal or, you know, so there is, they're like people, they're individuals. They all get a wild hair and do this or that. But so we always lose a few bucks during the rut, but we also find a few.

Exactly. Yeah. And you always probably wonder like, where's that thing water? You know, where exactly. If I had a nickel for every time I've scratched my head and go, I wonder where that deer is watering. I would, uh, I'd be rich. Tell me like these archery hunts. So it can be tough too. When it rains out there, it spreads them out. They can do a walkabout for a minute and they're not so tied to water. And of course the heat keeps them tied, you know, a little closer to water at times. And so, I mean, how does your hunting tactics change when, when all of a sudden you get monsoons come in right before that archery hunt, would you still say that's the best hunt or do you, or does that make it tough? You know, and that's, that's funny because I think that this last season was the third year in a row that we have not killed any archery bucks on a water hole.

Um, we've killed almost everything in the last three years, which is some of the biggest deer we've ever killed all, all spotting and stocking. You know, I, I tell guys, um, you know, guys that are thinking about applying for the archery run. I, I, I tell them that we, you know, we are not tied to water hole hunting in any way, shape or form. In fact, it's, it's, if, if we think we can kill that buck sit in the water, we absolutely will. Odds are probably not in our favor that we're going to be able to hunt that buck off water. He's either going to, cause the monsoons are, have been real consistent the last four years. Yeah. And, uh, like you say, you get, you know, you get a half inch storm and nothing comes to water for a week. If it stays hot, um, you know, either that or, or just those big deer as they get towards

the, you know, towards the end of their velvet cycle, they, a lot of them trend more towards being nocturnal on water. Um, you know, the increased, you know, the increased activity from, from just the hunters and the scouters leading up to the archery hunt can, can make some of these deer go nocturnal or switch water. So we, we don't really base our archery hunt around water hole hunting, um, at all. It's almost all based around spot and stock. And, uh, you know, and, and, and that being said, if that buck's hitting water at daylight, you can bet we're going to be sitting on the water for him. But, uh, but it's just usually doesn't pan out that way with the ones that we choose to hunt. Yeah. So even with, you know, not even with monsoons coming in, you're just hunting glassable deer, deer, you're just glassing them, glassing them up, bedding them, stocking them. Exactly.

Is that kind of what you're doing? Just bedding them, wait till they bed and then stock them? Yep. That's, that's, uh, you know, and, and, and not necessarily wait till they bed, but all, but all centered around spotting and stocking them. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's awesome. And then, um, you know, it's just, it's crazy to see how these different seasons pan out like that. I know there's been some giants. You've mentioned that the last three years you had some of the biggest deer you guys have ever harvested. I'm sure that's over 160 inches. A couple of them. What, uh, give us a little rundown, like, uh, you know, how big a deer you guys been putting your hands on last, last little while. Oh, well last, uh, you know, the archery season just last year, we killed three bucks that averaged over, over two 20.

I think one was in the, in the teens, but two of them were in the mid to upper twenties. Um, two twenties and, and two of the, two of the three were, were typicals. I imagine you guys maybe seen a picture of them, but we killed two gigantic tipples. Both of them. Oh yeah. Yeah. Both of them net over 200. One of them, um, net so big, it's scary. He actually jumped off about a 25 foot bluff when, when, uh, he got arrowed and wound up breaking his skull plate completely in half. I mean, it could, you know, cape the deer and the antlers fell apart more or less, but, uh, but we'd probably, we'd probably be hearing a lot more about that deer had he not broke his skull plate. So I know Boone and Crockett accepts broken points. As long as you have that broken point, uh, you got both sides of the skull plate. They're not saying they're not letting you do it.

Well, I haven't, uh, the last time I checked to my knowledge, broken skull plates were unacceptable. Both Boone and Crockett and, um, Pope and young. I don't, yeah, I don't think they operate off the same basis as a broken point, which, um, I guess this, you know, with that inside spread credit always being somewhat of a quote unquote unknown. They just don't allow it. Yeah. Yeah. Gee, that's unbelievable. Well, I did hold one of the typicals up there at the expo. I think, uh, another deer that you guys killed Drifter was up there. Yeah. Put my hands on him, which, uh, pretty much took me about an hour to get my jaw off the ground. Um, but tell me, tell me a little bit about Drifter. Like, let's talk about this deer. You know, I know he's a, even somewhat of a famous deer among you guys, um, to a degree over the past few years. And then you guys finally ended up putting him on the ground.

Tell it, tell me, give me a little rundown. Um, start with maybe when you first got him and then started following him and then what it took to get him knocked down. Yeah. Um, yeah. Drifter was a deer that I originally found in 2010, I believe the summer of 2010. Um, in a spot that was, uh, actually the deer, when I originally found him in 2010, he lived right by, right by the most main road that runs right down through the center of 13 B. In fact, any, any given summer morning, you could stop on the road and looked out the window and saw him. Um, but he just wasn't, he wasn't big yet. You could see that, you could see that palmation and that mass kind of coming on, kind of set in there, but he was just a baby. And then, um, the following year, which would have been 2011, the, uh, the deer moved. And had I, had I not used trail cameras, I would not have known that he moved.

Um, and he moved actually, um, from, from, from the summer of 10 to the summer of 11, he moved about six miles, which doesn't sound like much, but it kind of is for a summer deer in on the strip. Yeah. Um, and he, uh, he basically found a spring up on a mountain that, that not too many people knew about. Um, if they knew about it, not too many people ever took the time to go there. Um, and so the spring he moved on to is basically just a, a little seepy, just a little seepy muddy spot on the, on the side of a giant thick mountain that breaks off into some giant thick canyons and just, you know, very, very difficult country to hunt. Um, so he would, uh, that's when I named him drifters when he drifted on over about six miles this new spring and, uh, and started looking pretty cool. But so he would come and, and he would, uh, he would hit, he would only hit water about

twice in a year, maybe three times if you were lucky, as far as where we had cameras. And he would, he'd usually make his first appearance like in latter part of June. Um, and then he'd hit it, you know, we'd come in in late June, he'd come in early, early July and then about the fourth or, you know, about the more or less the monsoon start, give or take around the fourth of July around here. And, uh, you know, once you got a couple of good monsoon storms, um, the deer was just gone. And, uh, you know, obviously had another water source out there. And if I. You'd give anything to know of that water source, you'd get everything, everything. And there's no way to express how much time and miles myself, you know, my friends, my associates, um, spent hiking and looking for another water sources this deer could be using. And we just never found it. We just could not find one.

Um, and so oftentimes some of those years he would disappear in early July and he wouldn't resurface again until the following June. Um, but then as he, you know, when he went from, I don't know if I got my years correct. I think in 2013 was his first big year. He was over two 50 in 2013. Um, 14, he was down. He was down to around two 30, 15. He was, he was stayed about the same. Um, actually he was about, I think those sheds were all those sheds at that, that, uh, that guy picked up from him last year, those sheds unbroke. I think they said they were like high two fifties maybe, um, in 15 and then 16. He, uh, he was what he was when we killed him. And he, so in 15, um, to back up just a little bit, this is after, you know, minimal, minimal pictures of the deer. One, one kid that was helping me, um, saw him in 2015.

Um, he actually got, uh, there was, there was a guy down there that was scouting and jumped the deer and he just happened to be sitting in the right spot to watch him run off in a canyon. Come on. Um, and saw him put his own eyes on him. Didn't video him, just saw him. Just saw him tear off this rim and, and could tell it was him and then gone. And that was it. So now you're starting to put the pieces together. Like now, you know, he was bedded over here or, or he went here from some water source. Exactly. And, and that was actually when, uh, the kid that saw his name was Matt. Also, when Matt saw him, that was two days before the, uh, the 13B rifle hunt started. Um, so we were obviously, uh, you know, all time excitement and we, we, we went down there with every trick we had and, and never laid eyes on the deer the entire, the entire hunt.

Um, which was, you know, becoming commonplace with this buck for him to just, you know, we knew he was around. We just could not, just could not find him. So you just got, so at this point in time, this is 2015, November ish. And, uh, you've got, you've got clients and you're trying to kill a deer. That's, that's an absolute freaking monster. Um, does somebody hold out and eat their tag hunting this one particular buck? Or is it something you, you gave up and, and killed a consolation buck or how'd that go down? Yeah. Yeah. You know, where this buck, um, where drifter live, there's, there's usually always another good deer or two around there. Um, and when I say good deer too, I mean, there's usually a couple, you know, a couple bucks north of two 20 or there was back then. Um, so the consolation bucks were still pretty good, giant, pretty good bucks. Yep.

So it was kind of handy to be able to always look for drifter as well as these two or two or three other bucks that might be around as well. So, um, you know, it was that deer had made a clown out of us for so many years that we never, we never, um, had somebody that was willing to just fully commit 10 full days to that deer or nothing. Yeah. Um, mainly because the consolation deer were, were great. Well, they're big and they got a once lifetime tag and they deal and you know, 220 inch deer are freaking giants. So, you know, or 200 inch deer, 210 inch deer. And so I, I get that, you know, right. You do that. Only a few guys out there that could eat a tag and not kill a two 20 buck hoping to kill drifter. That's rare. In fact, a lot of anybody can, but. Especially on about, you know, the evening of day eight when one of them two twenties stands

broadside out there about 200 yards and, and it's pretty hard to turn that deer down when, when the one you're hunting hadn't been seen for three years. Yeah. Or whatever. Exactly. So, all right. So 2015, you end the season. He, he lives on. Um, backing up just a little bit back into 2015. One thing that the deer did that he had never done before, at least in our knowledge was he, uh, he moved down, he moved, expanded his country and moved down into some stuff. Um, that's a little bit more huntable, not great, but, but better than where he was. And, uh, he made a couple appearances on a, on a cow pond down there. Yeah. Um, and then going into, uh, 2016, this last season, um, when we found him the, uh, the first time he was back up in his old haunts up in the dark timber, you know, just where we didn't want him to be, but he, uh, by the first part of July, he had moved right back

down into, uh, some of this better country. Um, and he stayed down there. He would still disappear through the summer. He would still disappear for, uh, for three weeks or a month. I think the day we killed him, we had not had any trail camera pictures of him in about 18 days. Um, but he, so as he got older, you know, he just changed his habits a little bit and started spending time, you know, in a little bit easier type country and in a little bit better, uh, overall better type deer habitat countries, just more feed and more just easier living. Um, why he did it, I don't know, but he did. And, and, you know, we were able to, you know, through our scouting, we were able to know that he moved down there, was spending his time down there. And so, you know, come, come Brock's hunt last year. We, uh, you know, Brock was the first one that, I mean, it was drifter or nothing for Brock.

I mean, he was just solid as stone. I mean, there was no other deer that was gonna even, you know, that was even gonna, that he was interested in all. So that was, you know, we needed somebody like that and Brock was perfect. We went down there and, and, uh, started hunting on the 15th. Um, like I said, the deer, you know, we'd have, we'd had no visible sightings of the deer with our, with our eyes or our binoculars, despite having, you know, plenty of eyes on the highest things around. Yep. Um, still no sightings, no trail camera pictures. Um, just kind of, you know, tracking tracks in the middle of day and seeing if that might be him. And just, I, I'd like to say that there was a big grand, you know, military type precision is planned to kill this deer, but it was more or less, it was, it all boiled down to just, we know he's here somewhere.

Let's just spend all our time here until we find him. Just old school, this old school. We're talking Matt Schoenberg of, you know, 14 years ago, starting to track bucks and just old school. Exactly. And, and oddly enough, the day we killed him, he, uh, one of the guys helping us glassed him up, um, just out in the, on the end of an open point for the whole world to see glassing from the same spot where we'd had somebody morning and night for the previous eight days. Um, he just, there he was with, uh, with another buck just out in the wide open. He, uh, geez. So we were all scattered out, you know, a fair amount and five miles, like a five mile perimeter. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That, that pretty much, that pretty much sums it up. But, um, so the, the Brian who was watching the deer, um, feeding on an open ridge top went over a ridge out of sight.

So we're, we're scrambling to reposition to, uh, you know, get more eyes on him. Um, get one guy moved around across the Canyon and, and he picks him back up him and, uh, him and another buck kind of go into a little pocket and bed in the bottom of a pocket where nobody can, nobody can see the deer. Multiple people can see the pocket. Um, yeah. And I ran around and got multiple different vantage points trying to cut into this pocket and get a, get an eye on the deer. Um, lots of thick country around, uh, you know, the deal Jason were, you know, there's, there was a couple avenues where the deer could have got away, um, without anybody seeing him. We didn't think he had based on the time of day that he went in there. Um, if he rebeds, it's going to be 10 yards around the tree or whatever. Exactly. Right.

And, uh, so got with Brock and, and, uh, started walking Brock in there and, uh, you're going blindly. I mean, you don't have anybody with eyes on him. So you're just, you're going in there. Like you're going to go in there and whatever happens, happens kind of thing. Right. I'm across the Canyon. I, I, I exhausted every option I had as far as trying to glass the buck up and Brock and George are on the other side of the Canyon on the same side of the Canyon is the deer. And, uh, at this point in time, we're just like, yeah, let's, let's just walk in there and, and kill it. Um, so they start in there and it's tight and it's close and they get about 125 yards, still can't see anything. Yeah. Um, the buck that was with drifter blows up and out of the pocket. Um, it rattles a bunch of rocks, rolls a bunch of rocks, makes a bunch of noise, runs up and

out through the saddle and out the back and Brock and George, they get up there in position where they can see the back of the hole. And, uh, you know, they're just waiting. They're just waiting. Brock sitting on a tripod at the ready, just waiting for drifter to go up the hill. Um, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. And, uh, I was, I was certain at that point that he was, that he was still in there. Um, those guys went around about two more trees and, and, uh, as you guys will see on the video when we, I think that video is about done here soon, but drifter's laying up under a tree. He's not bedded up under a tree. Like you would expect most bucks to bed under he's, he's burrowed himself up under a thick, nasty tree. And he's like laying right at the trunk of it where he can't hardly even stand up and get out.

Um, so he's, he's hiding in there and he's just laying there kind of, you know, just shifting an ear back and forth and, and Brock shot him right in his bed. Um, you know, the deer was still unsure of, of who or where we were when we killed him. And, uh, gee, how far, how far was he? He was like 110 yards when Brock shot him. Come on. So, so his buddy blows out. He knows you're there. I mean, you're a hundred yards, right? Got a couple of people. And so he, you know, he's just not, maybe doesn't have exactly eyes on you, but he's holding tight. Like he's holding tight. He is not getting up exactly. Jeez. Wow. And that's, you know, it makes me, you can't help but wonder in hindsight, how many times that deer held tight on us or somebody else for that matter. And, and just, you know, just let us go right on by, let us do our thing. Let us make a mistake that let him live.

But, uh, yeah, that's, that's, that's some of the coolest stuff to me is, as far as hunting mule deer goes is how some of these big old bucks act and how, you know, it takes a lot of, it takes a lot of self-control to let your 185 inch buddy blow out of there and roll rocks. Oh. So, you know, and, and you just lay there and trust what's always gotten you by up until this point. It's unbelievable what those deer will let you do. We were glassing a deer, uh, one time and, and watched him bed. Some hunters came down the ridge. They're within, I would say like 25, 30 yards. They see, you know, a forked horn deer down in the bottom of a draw and they shoot nine times at this deer and this deer never moved. He's 25 yards from them. They're cranking off rifle rounds. We're watching the whole thing. And then we move in on this deer after the guys leave, uh, they go down, you know, grab

their deer, throw them in the bike and they all leave. Then we go in and make a stock and shoot this deer and, and almost felt bad doing it. Cause he's so freaking cool, you know, like he taught you something and you watched it and, uh, he deserved to live. And anyway, but tell me about walking up to drifter, like, tell me about, you know, I mean, we're in the business to, you know, find deer and, and put our hands on deer and, and, uh, but the respect level you had to have for this deer and just all of that. Yeah. I mean, it was, you know, he is him and one other buck are, are most definitely the, uh, oh, the pinnacle of my career, I guess you should say thus far. Um, walking up on drifter was, was a whole different range of, of emotions, I guess, if you will. Um, obviously thrilled beyond belief for Brock.

Um, sad that, sad that the buck was dead, although there's very few deer I ever walk up on. I'm not, I'm not sad that they're dead. Um, but he was, and let me, let me elaborate on that. When I say sad, it's just like you say, it's comes from a, it comes from a level of respect. It comes from how much, how much appreciation that I have for these deer and what they have to go through seven days a week, 365 days a year just to live. Um, you know, when our, when our hunting season is done, we go, we go back to our heated house or when it's too hot in the summer, you know, some of us go back to our, our air conditioned house. And these, you know, these deer, they're just, I hold a lot, a lot of respect for these, for these animals. And Drifter was the fact that, um, he went so long, um, without being seen. So there's, there's three people that I know of that, that saw Drifter on the hoof.

Um, two of them are, are with us and one of them is not, you know, the, despite what a lot of people would like to think. There was very few people that knew about that deer. A lot of people knew about that deer's existence as far as where and what it was not hardly anybody knew about them. Um, and so that was, you know, that was special too, just that in the day and age that we live in with the, with the hundreds of trail cameras and, and all the technology, this deer was still able to almost, not quite, but almost, almost go undetected, um, and live a, you know, and die a natural death almost. But, uh, yeah. How old, how old do you think he was? I think he was nine. Yeah. I think he was, I think that he, uh, you know, I think that he was still so big at that age and that's, you know, I'm not a tooth expert. I got my, uh, you know, there's not been a lab tooth sent in.

That's been, that's been cross cut off him that I know of. Um, but just, you know, based on how many years I knew of the deer, what he looked like all those years, um, and how he didn't, you know, the deer did not, in my opinion, go rut real hard each year. I think he probably had a small little, a small little spot with a doe or two that he went and that's where he spent his rut. He surely wasn't out there. Um, you know, traveling a lot and ricocheting around all through all that country, rutting all the does. Cause we would have killed him a long time ago if he was. Yeah. And, uh, you know, so I think that that, the fact that he didn't run himself ragged rutting every year, I think, um, helped him, you know, be so, so big later in life. Um, you know, I think the deer was, was for sure eight, if not nine. Yeah.

Well, you know, in 2010, when you're starting to, you know, you're starting to see him then, of course, you know, you can kind of figure that might've been his four year old year, you know, right. It's not hard to get to 10, you know, eight, nine, 10, somewhere in there. Exactly. And then you, you know, of course you hit your two 50, two thirties, two fifties. And then what did he end up? What did he end up, uh, on the ground? He was, he was two 88 and change on the ground green. Jeez. Unbelievable. Um, just, I know I saw, uh, just one trail camera pick a random, didn't even know really the deer's name. And I just, I've never seen a picture like that. And I think it was the sheds that the kid found. Of course, it just looks like a wall of antler. Right. Um, just in lines. And there's something about, I used to kind of be into those cheaters and, and of course

we, we are, we're into anything that grows up. Right. But you know, nothing like those big in lines, just tons of in lines, you know. I know. And big long ones. Right. Yeah. So, um, well, just wanted to tell you guys, congratulations on such a great deer, but, uh, you know, thank you very much your whole career and, and all of that until Brock, the same thing, you know, maybe he'll listen to this, but, uh, just couldn't be happier for you guys. And it takes a special client to, it takes the right team and the right deer and the right client and, and, uh, congrats to you guys for that. So. Well, thank you very much. We really appreciate it. Yeah. Appreciate you sharing the story. Tell me, uh, as we, you know, uh, wrap it up here a little bit, just a little bit about your personal hunting. Have you ever had a strip tag yourself or?

No, I, well, I have, I've had a, uh, I had a strip tag last year, except it was for bighorn sheep and not for deer. Okay. All right. For spikes. Yeah, exactly. For big, a big old heavy spikes. I, uh, no, I've, uh, I've never drawn the strip myself. I've got, I've got quite a bank of points. I don't quite have max. Um, I think I've got 15. Um, and you know, some years I apply for a tag other years. I, uh, I buy a point kind of based on everything. We've really just talked about precipitation inventory of bucks. We know to be alive. Um, but I've yet to draw my, uh, yet to draw my own deer tag out there. I've, I've got a daughter that's now almost seven. Um, and I've waited this long. It's, it's might sound funny to some folks, but, uh, you know, if she, if she has the interest when she's, you know, 10 years old or older, I'm probably going to hold out and draw that

tag and then give it to her. Um, I think I'd get a lot more, a lot more enjoyment out of watching her. She won, if she wanted to, then I, then I would, if I, if I killed on myself. So that's kind of my plan. Well, that's awesome, man. And yeah, I agree with you, but, uh, it's gotta be a little, little nerve wracking. I mean, you've been, I don't know how many, you know, 200 inch deer you've held over the years. How many deer have you held over 200 inches? Let's just ask that. Oh, held. Um, I think myself guys that I've personally guided or been directly involved with the hunt. It's, it's probably around 35 bucks over 200. And then with a three and every, all of us put together, I think we're somewhere around 70 bucks over 200 harvested in all of our years. Just a significant amount of big deer. And, and, uh, thankfully they're renewable resource. There wouldn't be any left. Right.

Exactly. And, uh, well, so it's gotta be a little nerve wracking. Like, what would you hold out for a tag for yourself? I mean, is it something, do you have a specific kind of deer in mind that you'd like to kill? Or is it just, uh, almost probably a little nervous to draw it yourself? Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, I, I, uh, I might differ from a lot of guides in the respect that I, I, uh, uh, you know, I get, I, I've got to hunt and find, scout and find and hunt and harvest. Um, so many of those big old deer that we fell in love with and were infatuated with and respected so much that, uh, I just, I think that if, if I can sit next to my daughter and watch her shoot one, whether that's 185 or, or 285, I think that, uh, yeah, you know, that's what's going to be the highlight for me. I, uh, as far as a certain deer that I want to, that I want to harvest myself at some point

in the future, I don't really have one. I get to go and scout and find and hunt these deer every year. Yeah. Um, you know, and when you, when you're blessed enough to be involved in taking some bucks like drifter and, and a couple of the other ones in the past there, it's, it's like, where do you, uh, for me personally, it's kind of like, where do you, you know, what do you, where do you go from there? Kind of as far as, you know, I guess we could kill a 300 inch or, but. Yeah. 300 inch hard horn. Right. There you go. In the book. Hey, you got to have goals, you know, Matt, you got to have goals. And Hey, those 300 inches are out there here and there. So they might be, you just got to hit them on the right year, you know? So anyway, uh, well, is there anything as we wrap up, is there anything, uh, that you feel inclined to visit about real quick or. Oh, yeah.

You know, I would, uh, I might just say in closing that, you know, we're going to start our, start our scouting out there about May 25th and, and, uh, going to hit it harder than ever. So yeah. Anybody that's anybody that's got the points or has the tag and, and wants to talk about going hunting. We'd sure, we'd sure like to talk to them. That's awesome, man. And we're not going to find you down there scouting elk or anything in mid July. Are we? You will not find me scouting elk in mid July. All right. All right. We got other people that'll do that. That's right. Well, good. Well, uh, Hey, just can't tell you thanks enough for spending a little bit of time. The story freaking had me on the edge of my seat. Um, of course I'm into big deer and, and, uh, mostly there's a lot of people that are into big deer, you know, that's the one species we all kind of grow up on out here.

And even sheep hunters or deer hunters, if you're from the West, you know. Right. Right. Exactly. So anyway, uh, sure. Appreciate it. Maybe I'll have you on again. Let's, uh, I know there's, I want to dive into like 14 other deer stories. And so maybe we'll, uh, maybe we'll visit when you're in, in between, uh, scouting days or something, trying to catch up on some rest or something. So sure. Anytime. And we, we really appreciate the opportunity to come on and talk with you guys. All right. Sounds great. Well, appreciate that. And, uh, appreciate Under Armour for sponsoring this podcast here today and, and, uh, helping us with a lot of different projects that we're working on. We're always growing and moving. We do, uh, publish a monthly publication, uh, from December through June and then, uh, bi-monthly for the rest of the year for nine total issues a year.

You can get on, uh, epicoutdoors.com to join or give us a call. Be happy to visit with you, help you with application strategies and, and whatever it is you need for Western big game hunting. So with that, we appreciate it. And we'll talk to you soon, Matt. All right, Jason. Thanks a lot. All right. You bet. We'll see you. Bye.