EP: 135 Making the Most of Your Hunting Season

Let's talk about mass. Let's talk about time length. Let's talk about extras. Let's talk about width. But we could have been heroes. We ended up zeros, but we could have been heroes. I'm just saying, get the points so you have options. Get the points so you have options. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, Wyatt, Wyatt. Wyatt's here. We introduced him last time. Now we're going to really give him some grief. He's been in here in the office a bit here in the fall. Some of you may know that. Of course, we're dealing with some license application renewals and different things. Getting guys set up for 2020 hunts, if you can believe that already. 2020, you know, 2020, I always thought we were supposed to be in our own little spaceships and airplanes. Remember? Fly around, land, get out, set up your tent, start hunting. We're still using regular gasoline. Yeah, I don't. It's not. You do have to choose. You can't choose between leaded and unleaded. We did do that as kids. We did. Yeah, we went from regular. Remember it was regular and unleaded. Yeah, it was leaded, regular and unleaded. Yes.

Now we've got all everything. Yeah, let's burn lead because it's just a 75 Chevy Blazer. Let's burn it. Yeah. Yeah. And put lead in the atmosphere. That's right. We can't do that no more. So that's the only change we see that we've made. There's been some King Ranch leather, a few nice leather interiors, and a few little things with cell phones, and people know where you're at and can track you and GPS. I mean, there's definitely some updates with 2020, but not spaceships. Spaceships. That's right. 2019 is less than two and a half months left of it. Yeah. You know, and it's just the time of year where some people's hunts are done, especially if you're predominantly an archery hunter. You may be done for the year, and we're getting some calls in the office. People are starting to want to start thinking about next year and planning,

and we're buying landowner tags, and we're selling landowner tags as fast as we can. If you're archery only, like Cameron Haynes or Randy Omer, you know how many hunts you have left, and it might be one. Yeah, that's right, because maybe you drew a late-season mule deer or something. That's about all you can hope for. We got Wyatt here. We got John Peterson as well. Chris is out in the hills. He's hunting, and hopefully they knock something down. Although it's been tough this second season in Colorado. As we were kind of excited, there was a little bit of a skiff of snow out there. A little bit, but I guess it depends on where you're at. Southern Utah, we've got mostly wind here on the Utah General Hunt. A lot of wind and colder weather. But, man, we've been under high-pressure funk for like two months. It's been unrivaled.

I can't remember a stretch like this in Southern Utah from mid-August to mid-October. Literally nothing. I saw a record thing, 115 days with no moisture, no rain. Was that St. George? Yeah, St. George. I saw a record somewhere, 115 straight days, which is the monsoon season, which is for there. That's when they get probably, I don't know. I don't know the exact number. I would say over half their moisture in the last two months they should have got. Yeah. That's what's crazy about this is in one aspect, it's going to, you know, if we don't, you need weather in Colorado to make the hunts great. We all look forward to snow and heavy snow and chaining up and all of those fun things, right, that comes with big deer. Sure. But, and that may not happen, but having said that, some of these other hunts like Nevada and Arizona, Northern Arizona and Utah, these deer are stuck to water.

They're vulnerable. So it's kind of a crazy, some hunts are going to be off the charts, unrivaled. Deer are vulnerable because they still have to hit water even though it gets down to the 40s or 30s at night. Well, because they're migrating and they're switching from summer feed down to the PJ sagebrush, you know, winter range. A dry diet. Yeah, they're switching to dry diet and yeah, they're water. They're going to start watering. So they're going to be stuck to water. So now you're going to kill, it's kind of interesting. You've got amazing antler growth because it was amazing wet spring and early summer. And then they're stuck on water and vulnerable. It's kind of great in a lot of aspects, but then like Colorado is just flat. Yeah. You've got too much timbers.

The places where you got timber like that and you don't get the migratory deer like you get in Nevada or Southern Utah or, I mean, you know, things like that. Anyway. Anyway, kind of interesting. So anyway, Poncegon, places like that have just been unbelievable in certain aspects, although kind of been a different rifle hunt. I mean, we've had a couple of giants, but like you said, Wyatt, and Wyatt's our Poncegon king. He's basically raised there. Huh? You got pet deer up there. Spent a lot of time there. So tell it, give us a little update on what you've been hearing. It just kind of seems slow right now. It seems like those deer just migrating off real slow, you know, and they actually kind of moved up real slow too. And I think a lot of it has to do with the new chainings and all the feed projects they've been working on over there.

It's really helping the number of deer, but it's, you know, kind of screwing up that migration that they've had for a lot of years. Not all at once. They're down. Is it hanging them up in the chainings a little? Yeah, because they're coming off, and instead of just a wall of thick seeders for 20 miles, they're like, let's stop and hang out here and move down to the next one. So I'm seeing a few dead deer in chainings. Do you think they're killing them, driving them to the chainings and taking pictures, or do you think they're killing them in the chainings? No, a lot of them are hunting them right there in those new chainings, everything. Okay. You know, not even the new chainings, the old chainings. That's what you're saying. Yeah. Habitat projects work. Well, that unit needed a bunch, and it's had a lot done. Yeah, that's great.

I think it's, you know, the lot that's making it what it is today. I mean, it's probably as good as we've seen it in a lot of years, for sure. So are you saying the good days are back, or the good? I wasn't old enough to remember those early 90s or way back when. We've got a millennial telling us that the days, it's never been better. From what I remember, this is a banner year for what's going on. It's a great year for the last 15 years. I mean, statewide almost for mule deer, it seems. Yeah, it's been tricky, though. That's a very different unit because of the migration, and we've had little to zero weather. But those deer, they move anyway on that unit that gets below 50 degrees, and they start migrating. It doesn't need to rain. It doesn't need to snow. It feels like they just pick up their head and start moving. We've had a full moon, high pressure.

So it's been tough in some regards. But in other regards, they're moving to winter range, too, and they're tied to water. And they are on that unit pretty heavily. Very interesting. So we want to throw a little shout out to Outdoor Edge. They're a good partner of ours. They make a wide variety of products, including a knife that has replaceable razor blades. They're very sturdy. We've used them on a lot of our hunts, and they're just an incredible product. So anyway, go to Outdoor Edge. You can call them 800-447-3343, or go to OutdoorEdge.com. Anyway, we've had a lot of members also do really well in different hunts across the West, Alaska, Canada. Some of the sheep hunts, it seems like, have been a little slow up north in Canada and stuff. Yeah. I mean, you did well up there, Bronson. Killed a great stone.

You kind of set us off here at Epic with getting on the board very first, right off the bat. But it seemed a little tough, I mean, generally speaking, over the broad spectrum. I guess in general, I would say that, yeah. I mean, maybe more on the stone sheep side of things than doll sheep. But, you know, lower 48, a lot of the sheep hunts, man, we've got some great rams in for members. I mean, some giants from New Mexico and Montana. I got another one in my inbox today from a guy from Utah killed in Montana in the breaks. And it's, I don't know, it's just stuff's going down hard right now. It's in the middle of it. And I think I saw that. Was it a 17-inch base and 40 long? That wasn't the, it was about a 184 ram. So that ram you described sounds a lot bigger than that. But anyway, just, yeah, it's in the middle of that heavy right now. Sheep season's still on for some people. Really? Yeah.

Who? Who? Adam? Myself. I've got a tag unpunched in my pocket. We've been grinding out a hunt, Adam, more than me. I went down a few days and what a grind. And it's not, it's actually been a happy grind seeing a few sheep. Yeah, it is. Seeing sheep, seeing numbers. The weather's been great for hunting sheep. I mean, which had a couple windy days, but you don't really want cold, rainy, nasty days like a lot of other things that you want, whether on hunting elk in the rut or even mule deer to initiate some movement or activity up and down, you know, out of their beds multiple times throughout a day. Sheep, you kind of just want bluebird weather. They're a fair weather animal. I mean, it's like sheep and coos deer. Those are one animal you don't have to wake up on time. Yeah. You could wake up a couple hours after daylight and still see the biggest ram of the day.

And we sit on our knobs a lot of times. We sit on two knobs a day, you know, until noon. Then we switch and we mix it up just so somebody doesn't have to sit there all day in the same spot. Because that's what you do. You can't see everything from one, you know, you see about 50 to 75 percent, but there's always a backside to every ridge you're looking at and cutting all that. So I've had a good time. You know, I've really kind of, you know, as I've got some of my guided clients done on other units and whatnot, it's just kind of opened up that, hey, I have 25 plus days left to the end. And let's just milk it. You've cleared out your schedule and you're going to use them. Pretty much. Yeah. If I need them, I've got them. And, you know, I'm trying not to feel the pressure of, hey, I've got a, you know, once in a lifetime desert sheep hunt. I know I'm going to kill a sheep.

I'm not worried about that part of it. Even if it's just for the cape or something. Yeah, the meat, you know. But I know that'll happen. So I'm just going to enjoy it. And, you know, had my boy come out for a few days. You know, he's just, you know, freshman in high school now. So can't come out a bunch. Had my mom come out. I mean, I've had a lot of people come and go. I think I've spent about 15, 16 days of field so far. So just kind of realize everybody's got stuff going, but as stuff comes and goes, I've had my brother, Aaron, of course, and Wayne. And just, it's been fun. And came back to have a, you know, to get a shave and, you know, make sure my wife and kids remember who I am. And we'll be back in a few days and go hit it for another week or 10 days. Well, kind of the interesting thing, too, is that Wayne, we tease you at camp at night.

Wayne's like, you're the worst client we've ever guided. Oh, yeah. Could you imagine taking Adam Bronson, king of Utah sheep? And, well, you know, he's broomed an inch and a half on the left or I'd really be thinking about pounding that ramp. Yeah. And so, anyway, it's so, so fun, like, being out there and just knowing Adam's willing to hang it to the very end and watch him clear his schedule and watch him and then tell him, it's good you cleared your schedule because it is going to take maybe the full time. Chris is wanting to video a little bit. And I'm like, well, Chris. I don't know when to tell you to be there. Have you got 30 days to give? Because that's really where we're at. It's awesome. It's awesome. It could be over in 15 minutes when the right ram trips my trigger, so to speak. And I don't really have a super preconceived notion, but I just want to hunt it.

I want to hunt it and give it all I got, hunt some places maybe that I won't hunt, you know, normally, a little bit of oddball places. We learned a couple of places. Yeah, some of those don't have any sheep, I can tell you right now, but you don't know that until you go there. It was a great overnighter, and, you know, there's not a track. It looks like it's five years old in there, but, hey, you know, you might find the right ram with a little group of ewes tucked away, and the hunt's over quick. If he's heavy, long, old, and a low dropper. He's dead. That's what we're looking for. That's not asking for much. Just everything, right? And we're in Utah. Okay. Yeah, trying to forget Arizona, forget Nevada looks. Yes. And scores and all that, remembering where we are and all that. But, no, it's been a fun, fun time.

And so, like I said, I've got about 20 days left a season as of today, 20, 21, I don't know, something like that. And we'll see how many we need. It'll be awesome. So, that's fun. It'll kill a great ram. So, anyway, yeah. I just want to give another shout-out to another one of our partners, PhoneScope. It's that time of year. If you've got a new phone and you need a setup for your binos, spotting scope, whatever, jump online at PhoneScope.com, P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P-E.com. Pick the model for your phone and your optic of your choice. Get it set up before you need it. We all use this here in the office. Visit PhoneScope.com, P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P-E.com. That's about it. What else we got? Let's talk about Nevada. Yeah. Let's talk about that mule deer. Yeah. So, I drew a tag. Did we talk about that at all? No. Yeah. We haven't even podcasted. This is a rare occurrence right here.

This podcasting is unusual. We're sorry. In the hunts, it kind of becomes that way. And we realize a lot of people are traveling hunts. So, you know, we kind of, I guess, disappear from the podcast frequency. Wyatt's not even sure who his boss is. He's just the thought we're gone. He's just holding down the fort here. He's like the rooster of the hen house over here. You know what I mean? But it's, but yeah. Let's talk about that giant. Well, yeah. Let's talk about mass. Let's talk about timeline. Let's talk about extras. Let's talk about wit. Yeah. He is a good, so he did get lucky. I ended up drawing a tag, drew a muzzleloader tag in an obscure unit. I mean, just one of these units that doesn't have a lot of deer in it, but I just wanted to go down and try something different. And anyway, start scouting it and realizing, you know what?

There's deer in any of these units that are as good as some of the best units in the state. It's just putting time in and whatnot. So anyway, ended up guiding a guy the first week of the muzzle and couldn't even hunt my unit for the first week. How'd that go? It was terrible. Thanks, Adam. Still have an open tag. Going to be continuing to work on that. And then went down and ended up, you know, hunting Adam. I mean, who was all there? Who was there? On the deer? Which hunt? On the first day, the first day we went down there. I'm trying to think. I wasn't there the first day. Chris was there. Brother-in-law. Anyway, went down there and hunting a different deer. It was what we thought was a book typical. We got on him and just wasn't as impressed when I got close to him, but was going to kill him and everybody was giving me grief. And so I was going to just-

Kind of like what you're giving me now on my sheep, basically. Like, same. Well, I felt like he was a low 90s deer, wouldn't net book. And not that that's not a great deer. It's a great deer, but I just- But had other deer scouted, like, let's go look around. And you had 20 days of season. Yeah. Kind of like me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Good point. It's right. You're right in all regards. And so anyway, so I was like, well, so anyway, it didn't work out. Deer ended up winning us. Super, kind of a smart deer was worked by some other locals and whatnot, obviously. There was a lot of tire tracks, foot traffic. I mean, we just felt like there was pressure in there the first week when we weren't there. And anyway, so the next day was Sunday. Went to church, did all that. Hung with the family a bit. Loaded for bear. Went down. Got camp set up by 2 in the morning. 4 a.m. Left camp.

Went in on this other deer, which is probably the biggest deer we knew about. Didn't really think he was as big as he was. And then ended up glassing him up the first morning we even tried. And that was the toughest deer. I thought there's no way we'll see this deer, let alone kill him with an open sight muzzleloader. You know what I mean? So you had pre-scouted him. Pre-scouted him. Yeah, pre-scouted him. But then this is the first time I've ever seen him with the velvet stripped and finished. You know what I mean? And like, this is what he truly is. And I was breathless when we first saw him. I was just like, that's a big deer. He's an airy sucker. Airy. Airy. Airy. Yeah. You put a clip on your Instagram that's just jaw-dropping. Yeah, and it was. And like we've talked about, that deer on the poncegant would have been a 40-incher. But he's just a small body. Yeah. Desert deer.

You know, different body, different ears. Yeah. All that. Yeah. You get a Colorado or you get a, even a central northern Nevada deer, Utah, Henry Mountains, that thing's 40-plus. Yeah. And so anyway, ended up bedding him. And then there was a heavy wind that day, 25-mile-an-hour wind. Perfect. So the stock was walking to him. It wasn't tiptoeing, wasn't sneaky, just going down a wash, walking right to him. And walked in, this little cove was pretty much, you know, the only live trees in the near vicinity. So I knew he would bed in there. And then he had a lot of variation. He could go bed over here, over here, over here, whatever. He had a lot of options in there. And so anyway, the wind was perfect. Although I had to wait him out for like five hours and super thick. And anyway, ended up, he moved beds and I kind of watched him. And I had his antler sticking out the side of a tree bedded.

And I just waited and took a few selfies and whatever. Just chillin'. Selfies? No. That's just Wyatt's term, because he's a millennial and I'm just abusing it. Anyway, of the deer and the barrel of my gun and everything. And it was kind of, I mean, it was fun. And anyway, he stood up. And these open-sight muzzleloaders, I mean, they're not easy. And we're mid-40s, let's face it. Dude, I'm looking at the sight and it's focused. And then I look at the deer and it's focused. And I look at the sight, look at the deer, look at the sight, look at the deer. Like, and then squeeze the trigger. Because they're not both in focus. Yeah, they're not. It's just tough, you know. Well, and they give special provisions to guys that are like us, that are losing our ability to see. But like we've talked about, they shouldn't even give them provisions.

Hey, if you can't see through an open sight, you don't use a sight no more. Just apply for the rifle hunt. Yes. I mean, if you have a... When the Indians couldn't pull a bow back, they didn't bow hunt. And they skinned and fleshed, they didn't go kill. Or just ate whatever the young little whippersnappers. Someone else killed it, they brought it back, fleshed it, and took care of it. Right. So, I mean, that's being rough. But, I mean, just saying. Just saying. Kind of like, well, that's another topic on whether scope muzzleloaders in Utah and some of these other, how hard they're being on deer. That's another topic. Well, let's just go there for a quick sec. Since you brought it up, we're talking about a second rifle hunt. And a rifle hunt in September for elk and deer and everything else. Because these muzzleloaders are unbelievable. Yeah. They're shooting 500 yards fairly easy.

400 to everybody. 350. No problem. Yes. With scope muzzleloaders. Yeah. And 300 grain bullets going 2,400 feet a second. It's a different... It's a different... It's changed the way people apply for certain hunts. You know, some of these muzzleloader hunts are way more desirable than rifle hunts. Flat out. I mean, I couldn't tell you one deer hunt in Utah I would take the rifle hunt over the muzzle. Right. Just to get it go first. Right. And to hunt more of a pre-scouted deer versus... Like on the ponds, you get deer that move and you're hunting areas that you know deer are coming to. Versus one deer that you've watched all year waiting for. So, the open sight muzzleloader days, there's a lot of people that had apprehension when you had to... Yeah, I don't really want to go that route. Okay. Well, A, that helps drawing hunts. B, that helps deer and elk live. Yeah.

Not that people should have bad hunts, but just, man, there's been some changes. And that's been one that I think... You just apply it to the Utah general hunt. How many more deer are getting whacked on a muzzleloader hunt now? And we're not... This is... Don't take it the wrong way. We're not on a crusade to ban scope muzzleloaders in Utah. We're just talking about certain things that seem minor. They can have a pretty big influence on taking... Especially top-end deer or, in some cases like general season deer, numbers of deer. Well, and at the end of the day, if you want to maintain a certain quality, then you've got to reduce tags. And so, at the end of the day, you could say that the advancements in technology can have a negative impact on the number of tags issued. I mean... Or the quality is just not going to be what you want it to be. That's right.

And I'm a huge advocate of the deer and the elk just because I want to hunt freaking monsters. We know a deer that got freaking wounded that's whatever, 650 with a muzzleloader, that would have otherwise lived or not been shot at. I mean, let's be honest. And a lot more than one. Yeah, I mean just... But that's just an example. Yes. I mean, and for everyone you know and hear about or that gets kind of traction in the underground hunting world, if you want to call it that, there's others that nobody tells you about. Yes. When they were loving something at 650 with a muzzleloader that's arcing like a... Yes. You know... We're not saying, like Adam said, it's just hard. Hunting has taken a change, you know, with all the technology and stuff we're not even bringing up. There's advancements out there that are beyond... They're mind-blowing.

And we're not even talking about those necessarily, but just... There's a lot in a hunter's favor if you want to keep adding to your gear list. And it just feels like we're taking on this, let's call it a democratic mindset, that everybody's entitled to whatever they scouted. I scouted that deer, I'm entitled to it, or I'm entitled to have an opportunity. I can't see through my open sight, so I'm entitled to use a scope. I can't use a bow, so I'm entitled to a crossbow permit. My shoulder's been giving me a little trouble this summer. I'm going to get a note from my doctor, and really it's not a long-term ailment or it's not a... Yeah. Well, there's doctor's notes being issued for leg cramps. I don't know. I mean, we know guys that are getting doctor's notes for nothing. Yeah. And so, anyway, this all has a negative impact along with, you know...

Adam, you've got a team of guys that we're, you know, helping on your sheep hunt or whatever. You add up all of these things, and we love it. Like you and I talked about it. That's normal. We want to hunt with our friends. We want to hunt with our friends. And it's more special. Some guys are saying, well, do it the hard way. Go be by yourself. Well, people that hunt by themselves might not have a lot of friends. I mean, we want to hunt with our friends, right? But having said that, you've got teams of guides that are being hired for special tags on top of crossbow permits, on top of muzzleloaders and stuff. And it's just all taking a toll, and we all have those things. I have a scope muzzleloader. We all have those things. Yeah. You know? But it's pretty tough on... It makes you realize when you get a tag like you described to bring it back to Nevada. Man, it is a primitive.

It is, you know, 100, 150 maybe yards. And it's still not a guarantee. I mean, 141 yards is not a chip shot with a muzzleloader. So I had a good client. He's a good guy. But he did miss a freaking monster. Probably maybe the best deer in the state. You know, at 141 yards at open sights.

Something you or I or anybody could do. That's... Yeah. I had a couple strokes over it and maybe even a little heartburn and puked once or twice. You know? And now you go back to work. But back to your deer. We digress. Okay, so... Now back to your deer. Open sight muzzleloader. 120 yards. Freaking knocked it over. 125 yards. He gets up. He feeds away from me a little bit. Finally, I keep thinking I'm going to squeeze. Keep trying to, you know, just as you're doing, trying to make this perfect shot. Anyway, hammered him. Flops. Well, you know muzzlers. They don't shock an arm, so to speak. They smack. They just smack. They kind of like a slow rock going through them, right? He's flopping, flopping, flopping. I'm like, I hammer him again. Flopping, flopping. I get closer. Hammer him again. Flop, flop, flop. I hammer him again. Flop. You take all your slugs out and you can use them again.

Yeah, you feel like, yeah, I can use them again. So anyway. And they were all great shots. Like, great shots. It just takes a minute for him to expire and I want him to die now. You know, I don't want to track him 14 miles. I want him to die now. Let's talk about the buck. So we walk up to the deer. He ends up being 36 inches. He's a 221 gross buck. 10 inches of trash aside. Basically a 200 inch frame. Just with one eye guard. No eye guard. Yeah. Really no eye guard. Yep. You know, on the one side. Yep. Just one of those kind of deer you just go, wow. You know, he was a, he's a special deer. Got a little bit of dried velvet on him. A lot of character that way. Kind of like one of those deer that tried to come out of the velvet but has nothing to rub his antlers on. Rocks. Rocks and stuff. And so he's really light antlered and dry crappy velvet. You know, but I love him for that.

And old deer, his, I showed you his front teeth are freaking, they're not just worn like top to bottom. They're like worn on the side, you know. I mean, those are, that's a major cavity. Like it was, he needed some fillings for sure. And then his, his back mullers, I mean, freaking down in the gum, huge old dish, dished out. Awesome buck. Yeah. Oh yeah. He's just kind of down, living in a harsh environment. You know, you have all the respect in the world for some of these old deer. They go through a lot and then you get to put your hands on one once in a while and on a draw tag, couldn't ask for more. It just, I'm just, I guess we go back to this, you know, I bought landowner tags in Nevada. I love Nevada for a lot of reasons, but you and I have talked about it. And Wyatt, you too, like we are not taking advantage of the tags that are given us and

given meaning easy to draw or our dedicated hunter program here in Utah or general stuff, easy to draw tag in Nevada. Like, I'm not sure how many more landowner tags I really want to buy. Like, I mean, I want to, it's, there's good animals. If you spend time, time is the key. I'm tired of having too many tags. I have too many tags. My kids have tags and, and I feel stressed. I want to just, now I'm just saying it. Now, when we're right in the middle of out season, I'll be applying for some freaking weird coos deer unit in New Mexico. Antelope in four states. 100%. The antelope that we saw in Wyoming after getting our butt kicked during deer. I mean, I'm going to be there. Unreal. And then I'm going to get there and I'm going to go, why am I here? These are all two points. They're forkies with a little dropper here and there. Maybe a little three quarter inch nub off the back.

So, yeah, that's where I'm going with it. Well, I agree. And I think, I don't know, our eyes get big during application season. We're all, we're all that way. But, you know, for me, my desert sheep hunt has kind of been governing a lot of my applications the last couple of years, at least. And now that'll be gone. That, I was a top point holder. So, I had to kind of apply with that in mind. Now, now I'm not. But, but I totally agree with making more with what you got or can get than trying to get everything in the world. And sometimes you're running yourself rag. And I realize for the masses or for the majority of our members or listeners, getting too many tags is not the problem. But sometimes we can get, you know, a general season in Idaho and a general season in Utah. And then we draw one tag. And we always usually go to the draw tag areas and don't hunt our generals.

And sometimes that's where some of the biggest bucks would have been found. So, it's like we get a. The biggest bucks. Why? The bucks. The bucks. Like the handfuls. General season units together in Utah have produced, you know, some giant deer. More than Henry stuff. Yeah. More oaks, Vernon, freaking San Juan. Oh, now there's a special. Well, and you got to realize though, there's a couple of those. But I mean, you're also talking about units that have six to 10 archery and six to 10 muzzle litter tags. So, I mean, we're talking about units with a thousand archery tags and, you know, a lot of, a lot of nice bucks. So, overall, point taken, we've made some, I think, verbal. I don't think anything's in writing in terms of our resolutions for 2020. We should put them in writing. We should put them in writing. I'm so tired of being gone so much and killing. Okay.

Well, get Jen in here and get your stuff in writing right now in front of her right now. I'm not quite to that point with writing. We can talk about concepts and pulling the reins back slightly. I agree in the concept. Conceptually, I'm on board. But I love it. Like, we went to Wyoming. Wyatt, take us to Wyoming. Well, we got over there on Wyoming, you know, just a unit we were more or less just trying to learn or figure out what was actually going on over there and spent a lot of time looking at not very many deer. How about hardly any deer? Yeah. Hardly any deer, I guess. We could use that exact term right there. Hardly any deer. My kid, a couple of my kids killed bucks, but it turned out, and they're nice bucks for my kids, right? They were the best deer we saw. Okay. And they left, go back to school, and we grinded out, Sean and I, and we're like, and you.

And we're like, no, there's nothing better. Oh, we're going to kill nothing. Yeah, then nothing. Airball. It was like, it was so bad. Yeah, yeah. I was, I turned to my kid, and I'm like, I feel like if Wyatt wasn't here and you weren't here, I'd probably drive home. He goes, oh, I would be too. And you said the same thing. Yeah, you just think something's going to give. And, you know, some of those hunts, you know, if you're not in the, GRH has a lot of deer. You deal with a lot of people in places like that. You draw some of the other, you just call them limited entry units in Wyoming. We've said it, I don't know how many times on Wyoming podcast. There's just nothing that's consistently still or knocking it out of the park. You hunted 128. Yeah, but I mean, that one's just numbers late. Numbers and high numbers of 160, 170 bucks. That's what you're doing. Great.

And occasionally, a couple get better than that. But the most of the limited entry units in Wyoming are just, they just can't sustain general season hunting or they'll get crushed. They'll kill all the deer. Yeah. I mean, that's an over-exaggeration. Meaning over-the-counter for non-residents. Yes. Or over-the-counter for residents. But so they make them a draw just to regulate it to some extent. That doesn't mean their limited entry, like Utah, has five or six limited entry units, and they're all managed for legit big deer. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Well, and what we did by going up there, A, I will say this. It was probably the worst year in a decade up there. With, you know, from everybody that's hunted up many times over. Locals, whatever, yeah. You know. No sheds, videos, deer. We know. They had a lot of the weather we'd been at. Like, a lot of the high-pressure stuff, right?

Not a lot of storms. This fair weather ruined us. Yeah. I mean, no migration. No, nothing. Nothing. But we did have a member, you know, I talked to him in the motel, and he went out. More or less a pep talk, wasn't it? Yeah. He says, hey, thanks for the pep talk. And we're going to probably have him on the podcast. Wasn't he about to turn and go home? And you're like, just stick it to the end. Yeah, just basically like, Carter, you talked to me about this. I wasted a bunch of points. You know, gas money, I'm here. You know, what do you think? I'm like, well, I'm here too. Not only am I here, I got kids. My entire family's here. Wyatt's here. Like, we're here with you. We're all feeling pain. Going through the same pain and suffering. And anyway, at the end of the next day, it was the last day. The last day of the hunt, he smoked a mid-180s buck. And he's like, you followed me in.

And I'm like, yes, yes. You're, you know, and he goes, and he says, right there, right behind my truck, I freaking smashed him. And I was like, well, I went by you and went down into this dark, kind of a deeper, steeper canyon to get possibly a migrating buck to come in. And his was migrating deer. And he got lucky, and I didn't. And that's just the way it was. And he says, you heard my shot. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I heard your shot. And so anyway, super thrilled with it. But at the end of the day, I guess our point was we just try a lot of things. We eat a lot of tags. It was a down year. I'd go again in a heartbeat. Probably get my butt kicked twice. But we learned a lot of things. I've seen antelope off the charts. Am I lying? No, no. Unreal. I've never seen anything like it. Really? As far as antelope. It was crazy. Numbers of big bucks.

And then I'm getting sheep pictures from you, Wyatt, and Jason, both out the truck. Sean about smashed a moose on the highway. That was probably the highlight of the trip was the sheep pictures. Oh, yeah. I mean, we didn't. It was good. Dude, that unit is, well, anyway. I don't want to go there too far. But what I was going to say is it was a great learning experience for all these species. Just being out and learning and experiencing, like, I'd go there for antelope in three seconds. Yeah. Although it was high private. A lot of private where those bucks were. But some of these bucks were clear up in these burns up high on the mountain. You know, maybe that was just our weather. Maybe we were just dealing with no weather and they were up there. I don't know. A lot to learn yet. So that sucked. Adam, let's talk about New Mexico elk. Well, there's a bright spot for me of my year.

I mean, I don't want to allude that it's been a rough year. But I've had a couple grinders, you know, with some sheep hunts. But one of my personal hunts. But also a couple clients that have been grinders. So this is one of those hunts I didn't have time to scout. I didn't have any time to scout. No. Full schedule. Like we've been talking about. That's right. We're going to get out some brass and etch it that we're not going to do this to ourselves again. So, you know, I actually pulled the tag through the guide draw mainly because, you know, let's face it, drawing odds are better. And drawing a great elk tag in New Mexico is hard. You know, my Septembers didn't, you know, because of my likely drawing my sheep tag, I didn't want to get tied up with an archery tag that generally requires a lot more days. These rifle tags are five days. Take it, leave it, go down there for five days.

You're done, you're on. I just got lucky and pulled a great tag and had Jordan from the premium hunts crew down there to help me out. And low density elk unit. One of these new early rifles. Yeah. And we saw some bulls the first day. I actually didn't even get down there until the day before the hunt. But he'd been doing a lot of work there prior to me getting there, him and some of his family. Long story short, opening day we saw a couple of bulls. One bull that broke up pretty good. Two first and second broke on one side. Sword on the other. He probably would have been a .350, .360 caliber bull. But he just was, you know, he just kind of had a frame of that. But nothing to get him there. Another bull that was probably a .3, maybe .60 bull. Big frame, wide, long beam, but just didn't have tines. Had weak fifths and kind of weak thirds, but just a big framey looking bull.

But that night we ended up glassing up this bull that I ended up killing. And, you know, he had about eight or nine cows, something like that. Big top end, big fronts. And, I mean, it was obvious. I mean, that's a bull you probably better shoot, you know, down here. But he was in a spot we couldn't get to that night. And basically just watched him until dark. Well, he went over a ridge probably an hour before dark and never came back. So we figured we had an idea where he'd be the next morning. Yeah, he'd move probably, I don't know, half a mile, something like that. Got on him. And anyway, second day of the hunt, bedded him down and got in there 510 yards and shot him until the four legs were prone on the ground. That's what they tell you to do on elk. What does that mean? That means. How many rounds? Five. Whoa. I didn't know that. I'll bet they were. You were smashing him.

Oh, just kept, just slapping him. I mean, only that. You had to get into your pouch on your. One. Yeah, I had four in the gun. You did? Which gun did you use? Red Rock. Seven mm. It'll hold more. It'll hold. I feed one every time when I start shooting. And it'll hold three down low? Yeah. So my magnums only hold three down low. Okay. Okay. So I had four and I had one ready to go. But it's elk, right? And you don't. Same thing as my deer. I don't care. I'm not proud of all these one shot kills. I don't. And he just locked. First shot, just locked up. And you could hear, I could hear it smack him and I could tell. And the second shot, locked up. And you're like. And then the third shot, I'm like, I'm going to go. Because it's windy. I'm going straight for the head. Now I'm going center mass. That's later. Oh, yeah. That's right. I forgot. Okay. Keep going.

So that third, and I could tell, I'm like, he's hurt bad. He probably is dead. But now I'm just, I'm putting it in the center of his body now. Because I figured I'm tight to the shoulder somewhere, which I ended up being. And so that second shot, and I could see it just right in the center of him. I got one through his liver or something. But he's just standing there. He's wobbling. And the fourth shot, he drops like a rock. A ton of crap. Just a ton of crap. And I'm like, okay, we're done. And, you know, I'm getting it empty out. And I'm looking over there, and he's thrashing. He's, you know, I'm just watching with my naked eyes, 510 yards. You know, he didn't move anywhere in those shots. Didn't move. I don't know that I've ever shot an elk with a rifle like that that just. Locked up. Didn't even, like, run. Of course, they didn't know we were there.

He just got out of his bed to tend a cow and turned broadside. And, you know, it opened up on him. But pretty soon, he's got his front legs up underneath him and his back. He's wobbling. I shot him again, and he went down. I mean, that was it. But, I mean, all five shots drilled him. Split the skull plate? No. Oh, okay. No. But the fourth shot, since you brought it up, Mr. Clark. And if you see it on my Instagram, you might see a little thing on his burr. But I hit him. So, on that fourth shot, he was actually pretty sick. So, he turned his – I don't know if he was turning. He wasn't really licking his side. But he was turned back like, my side and shoulder is hurting right here. And I remember telling myself, don't shoot him in the face. I remember. Because his whole head is turned back right over his shoulder. And I'm like, don't shoot him in the face.

Well, I missed his face, but I shot him right in the base of the antler. Right there. And it just blew his brain out. No. It dropped him. But it didn't even go into his skull. Oh. Just right in the antler and out the backside. Blew a little antler missing. And that's it. Oh. But that dropped him in his tracks. But then he got up sick, you know, and the fifth shot did it. But I'm not a – I can run the action pretty fast. That's what clients do for you. Well, and I'm not – I don't know. I've got clients. I've got other people that if they think they got a fatal shot, they don't want to shoot anymore. Well, no. It's a saving – you know, it's like, what are you saving? I don't know. You're into this hunt. How many thousands of dollars? Well, and it's different on a sheep or a sheep cape. They're thin-hided, and you can blow – burgers, you may blow them up.

But on an elk or a moose, I mean, I shot my moose four times, and he was dead the first three. But the fourth shot, I, you know, didn't want him to get him into the thick stuff because then it's two hours of chopping trees down before you can even get in and take a picture. All the while looking around for a grizz. Yeah, that's right. So, anyway, it was great. Straight six point and – 381. 381. It was great. But long beans. Jeez. Like 59 and 7 on the one. We measured it twice thinking he might hit 60, but we didn't quite get 60 out of that. Let's see. You killed one on the Dutton. A little better than that. He had extras. Gross. A couple extras. This is a straight six, so, yeah. Oh, he's gorgeous. Great bull. And that was a gift. Like, that's a draw tag. No tag, no points, I mean, in New Mexico. So, just – that's what we would say as a gift. Gift to draw tag.

Gift to, you know, go down there and find a great bull to shoot. I was, you know, either going to shoot a really nice bull or just hunt five days and come home and not shoot one. That was my plan. But, anyway, I appreciate Jordan and his help. He hadn't seen that specific bull, but he knew where the cows and all the elk and that were. And in that unit with low numbers, you've hunted some of those units, Jason. If you know a little bit of part of the unit with low elk densities, we're kind of an epicenter of cows. That's areas to be looking at. Yeah. Well, and that's also, when you got low animal densities, you've got low tag numbers. You get low tag numbers. Sometimes you have a giant. And that's – I love those. I love those kind of areas. Now, I went to one of the best units in the state, 16B. Early archery. I forgot. And it was a grinder. It was hot.

Well, and to tee that up, you elected to hunt the first to the seventh because you had – Well, the 10th was a muzzleloader in Nevada. You had muzzleloader in Nevada. And I have to guide a client and then do my own. Yes. And so there was just no option. It was just that's your time to go. Yes. And it is what it is. And it was kind of a late season opportunity. It was unusually hot. Yeah. It was hot. Anyway, went in there, got dropped off. It was a drop camp. And it sucked. But we did see a 360-type bull. And I was looking for something like – something special like what you killed or just – you just want that kind of that next level bull. And we didn't find one. And we hiked our guts out and worked hard. And so anyway, ate that tag. But I learned a lot. You know, I'd do it again. I think it was just the year. I do – that second archery is definitely better.

I've done well on the first archery. You have. And that's the tradeoff. Some years, that first archery, it starts raining and they're going nuts. And it's just a flip of the coin. Yes. Always has a lot better drawing odds than the second hunt. Everybody wants that 15th to the 24th of September if you can get it. Yes. I mean, I think you'd pick it. I'd pick it. But you sacrifice drawing odds. I mean, the tags you've drawn archery have always – or anything that you've hunted earlier, you killed that 360s bull on the early hunt in the first 10 days. I know. Anyway. I know. And so, anyway, but it was a good learning experience. I probably won't learn much from it. You know, I'll probably do it – I'd do it again if it was offered again. But, you know, having said that, went in there and did learn the – saw a great mule deer. Mule deer with cheaters, end lines. Whoa. Yeah.

I didn't tell you about that. Videoed it. It was a legit deer.

It's a big deer. I saw a big coos deer, too. But, anyway. Yeah. It's just kind of like our Wyoming hunt, Wyatt. I mean, you just learn. You'll pick up something from a tag you eat. Yeah. You know, whether it's even on that species. Yeah. I'd go there again. I only touched a 20th of the unit. Yeah. Like, you know. That's the one that – I mean, geez. It'd take years and years of hunting that with horses and really, you know. And I hate horses. Yeah. I hate them. If you're not used to riding them, you rode them on your sheep hunt. Yeah, yeah. Did you love them? No. I don't. I mean, you're bow-legged. They always give you the saddle that's not – Well, I was already – I mean, they give you the client saddle. I'd already – And that's a grinder. I'd already – And their personal saddles, they've got stirrups that are forward-facing and all these things. I mean, they're just nicer saddles.

And you're in their just – you're in their bow-legged. Your ACLs and MCLs, you might as well be ruptured because your legs don't work. And you know these guides are just – they're grinning the whole time. They're just like, you think you're tough? Get on this saddle. You know? And you – I love it. It's just like I do the same thing. I get it. I get it. Laugh, laugh, laugh. Hold your bow. I held my bow for freaking 10 miles on horseback. You know? Just – you don't think it sucks? Mile one, mile two, mile three. You're tired of that bow. But anyway, great experience. All fun. All fun and games. Ate that tag, too. Where's that bring us? John, you were hunting a freaking stud deer. You know, earlier we talked about these deer aren't living. They are with me. Scope muzzle her? Yeah. But I tried to get my kids on them during the muzzle loader. You did.

You got dad of the year award even if your wife didn't issue it to you. I'll give you one. She's like, you're never here. That deer would be dead if you – I got Kate on it, and it was 150 yards, I think. And just she couldn't get it in the scope and shoot it. But it was great. You know, we had a great time. And I learned a lot on the archery. I've never spent that much time on the archery. And just – I actually learned a lot from listening to podcasts and listening to you guys, you know, and what you're doing and found, yeah, you sit there in the sun all day. That's what it takes sometimes. And was able to get in really close on several occasions. You did that? Sat them on it all day? Yeah, all day. Just – Wow. You know, no water in the sun and thought – Sucked. Wish I had another – Wish I had a water. Yeah. You know? But – And that time of year –

We're literally the four corners of the earth. Everybody in the office is somewhere. Wyatt, you're guiding muzzle. Did you have a muzzle? Ponce archery. Ponce archery on the archery part. And then you had a Ponce muzzle later, didn't you? Ponce muzzle. We were on San Juan. And then I've got sheep, guys. Then you're on San Juan Elk. And Jason, you're doing your – I mean, that's why we talk about this is a rarity to be doing this. We haven't seen each other for weeks, you know? And so it's unfortunate sometimes because we – You know? And this is a general season tag. So it's like if John would have drawn the Henry Mountains, we'd all have carved out time like everybody did for me a few years ago when I had my chance. I don't know why we do that. But that deer is – I mean, he's maybe not a true Henry Mountains giant, but he's a freaking big deer on a general. What do you mean?

He's 220-incher. Mostly frame. Is that what you're talking about? I'm talking – No, no, no. I know. I'm talking John. I mean, I'm talking John's. John's has cheaters. Oh, it's a big deer. I mean, but what I'm saying is we'd carve time out, but somehow we've all got our own generals. We're this and that and the other. Well, the general, we're not putting any emphasis on it. It's valueless because it's been given to us our whole life. Yeah, we've got a lifetime license. We pick what we want every year. That being said, I don't have one this year. First year in my entire life, I remember not having a Utah general tag. Oh, wow. Well, if you had employed Epic Application Services, we'd have had you three dedicated points. Yeah, geez.

A little disappointed. Well, next year, you'll have one. You'll have one. That one point will pay off. Two. Huh? Two points. You came off dedicated and then you got a general. Yeah. You didn't draw a general with one. No. So now you got another dedicated point and maybe two general points. Two general points going in. And a limited entry point? No. Yeah, limited entry points. Yeah. I got a pile, though. Yeah. So we'll see what happens. That's a good point, Wyatt. Well, anyway, John, that's, I mean, where I was going with that is, it happens sometimes. I mean, you know, we, you know, literally, we're all up to here water-wise just at our nose. And that was a time, I don't know, Chris might have went out with you. I don't even know if he could break free. I don't know what he was doing. Yeah, Chris did go with me one time. And we were on a good deer with Kate again. Yeah.

And just, you know, just didn't happen. But really close with her. This morning, we're on a great deer. This is the rifle hunt now we're talking about. You're probably ready to go hunt the evening tonight. Yeah, we're headed by the time, is it? We'll hurry this up. Speaking of the podcast, I did have a guy hit me, killed a deer. And he was like, dude, your guys' podcast, when you talked about stalking and not blowing them out, not believing the stalk is over, sometimes you break a stick on a stalk or do whatever and you think that the deer had to have blown out, like you were clumsy or whatever. And he says, I took it to the very last bit. And even though the deer smelled me and I was within 40 yards, he waited until I was like 40 yards before he blew out. And I smoked him at 225 yards or something. He's like, it's a rifle. Rifle.

And he said, because of the, and it was a second season Colorado. He says, because of the podcast, I killed this deer. It's pretty awesome. I sent it. We'll do a little snapshot on it. But anyway, kind of cool. You know, it's, we learn from each other. We're learning from members and, you know, hopefully these podcasts are just another avenue of learning stuff. You know, of course we have the Epic Outdoors magazine. That's a hundred bucks a year. You get nine issues and we talk about all the state draw stuff, but can't put everything we're talking about in writing. You just can't put it in writing. So we do the podcast. Melanne, you got the ability to call us and consult with us throughout the year, which is very unique aspect to our business. It's not just. Except for this time of year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, during the hunts, don't call. Right now. It's hard.

There's a lot of guys calling. You might not, but, but let's just say from December through summer. Yeah. And when you're doing the planning and your application and how should I use my points and all that, that, that's what we do every day. That's, that's what you, your hundred bucks goes for. So we've got some more hunts coming up. We're going to be hitting Colorado. Third season. Chris is over there second. Like we talked about. Jeff, he's got his kids over there. He's crushing bucks with his boys, isn't he? Crushing bucks and crushing feet. Crushing feet. Sounds like. I guess his kid, he dropped the tongue of a, what, side-by-side trailer on his kid's foot or something. Yeah. Yeah. I think he was. Ended up picing it down. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Poor guy. That happened. These hunts with kids are fun.

I mean, you just take for granted a lot of things of finding the deer in the scope, things like that. Fun. Well, so my 13-year-old boy. First time, right? Yeah. First time. It is? Yeah. First time. First deer. He was like, my daughter is a little picky. She's like, I want three-pointer better. It's not even, I'm not even considering it. You know, she wants to be able to brag to the boys at school. Yeah. Not get a three-pointer. He's like, I'll shoot anything, dad. Just let's go. You know? So opening morning, we were on a three-point and he went up in the mountain in the hills and we were kind of seeing him through the cedars. I'm like, he's going to come out. We can shoot him. And then a spike came by him and he's like, he's got horns, dad. You know? He smoked it. And he walked within 50 yards. He smoked him. Smokes him at 50. Awesome shot. Smoked a spike. And was he just beside himself?

Yeah. Just so fun. We cut it up and, you know, he's just eating it. The best meat you can eat, probably. But then, I guess he's allergic to something. Hair? Touches his eye. He's got like deer hair on his hand. Touches his eye. Swole shut. His face was half swollen shut. Oh my gosh. Couldn't see out of one side. Oh, deer hair. It was crazy. Oh, that does happen to people. Yeah. It does. So now I'm like, yeah, with you. Better wear some gloves. Yeah. You need to like elk. Or antelope. Yeah. Totally allergic. Wow. Dang. Well, that's awesome. So it was fun. Well, you know, you could be like Sean. So he smokes an antelope in Nevada earlier this year. And it was a buck we were on. We knew about for a couple years. He came back not as great this year. Antelope in parts of Nevada weren't as good. They just weren't. But anyway, he's got a Colorado second tag. And today, they're off school.

So I'm like, hey, Sean, why don't we freaking run to Colorado and smash and grab a freaking buck, you know? He don't want to go. He doesn't think it's that good a tag. And I'm like, really? You're spoiled. Because this unit, they've killed that deer. Dad, what did you actually get me, Dad? What do I actually got? Yeah. And then he doesn't believe me. So he had that Wyoming tag, which now I've ruined him forever. Because it did so. You just came off of that. And you're trying to get him to go back on it. Right, right. On a second choice tag, right? I said, this Wyoming tag could be a really good tag. And so he's worked Wyatt over everything. I'm like, ask Wyatt. Ask Wyatt. And Wyatt's like, dude, it's one of my best tags of the year. I'm going. And so finally, he goes up there. And we get it handed to us. Then he's like, absolutely. I'm not going to Colorado.

And he didn't have a Utah general this year, did he? No. He didn't. He had a, well, he had the archery. Oh, the archery only. Remember, we got him one at the end. The use only. One of those. Yeah. That were, you know, turned back or whatever. Leftover. Leftover tags. So anyway, he's just spoiled.

So whatever. He's watched me eat a lot of tags. I guess he's decided he didn't like eating tags. I don't know. So anyway, that's about it. We've got some more hunts going on. We're in the office for a day just catching up and thought we'd throw out a podcast. Can't think of any other lessons. There's a lot of takeaways on these things. But we are having members hit us up. We do have a few landlord tags coming available for 2020 in Nevada. If you want a tag or want us to find you a hunt or whatever, hit us up. You can email us at hunts at epicoutdoors.com. You will get an auto reply. Devin, we've hired Devin. We need to introduce him on one of these new podcasts. But he is working with a lot of our outfitters and signing, you know, helping guys find hunts with guaranteed tags. And kind of a booking agent. And so anyway, direct any of those kind of inquiries to hunts at epicoutdoors.com.

Of course, you can hit Wyatt or Jason or Adam at epicoutdoors.com. And if you want to see your pictures and stories, hit photos at epicoutdoors.com as well. And we'd love to showcase those in the upcoming issues of the Epic Outdoors magazine. I think one takeaway we can just talk about briefly is the mental toll that when you eat a tag, how hard it is. And for guys that don't have, you know. So is it hard to justify to the wife that you just ate this tag and it costs thousands of dollars to get there and back? Well, I think sometimes, especially if a guy, like a member doesn't have as many tags as say you do or we do. Typically on a year and you've got maybe one or two good hunts. And you're in it and it's just a grind. And it's just not happening. It's mentally tough sometimes. But then I think to hear about, okay, other people are eating tags and learning stuff.

What can I learn from this? And there's next year. And just because I'm not successful on one hunt, you know, I learned so much this year just on that archery hunt, hunting one place and spending a lot of time. But it didn't end up killing a deer. Yeah. But it's not the end of the world. But it's not the end of the world and there's next year and just things that you can learn. I think it's just it can take a toll on you and it could be a drag, you know, if it's just not coming together. Well, and one podcast Adam and I have talked about a little bit, social media is ruining hunting hunters. When you open up your phone, you're having a tough go. You think everybody's killing 200 inchers, dude. Every hunter but you. Every swipe is a 200 incher. Waka, waka, waka. Yeah, everybody's killing one but me. Everybody's killing one but me. And that's not the case at all. It's not the case.

And you know what's hard on the outfitters, too? And I've had other guys say, well, I'm booked with outfitter A, but outfitter B's been killing some big bucks. Well, yeah, okay. Okay, a couple things. Those aren't just outfitter B's clients. Those are his friends and family, too. And they are local and they've been working their guts out. Okay, that's number one thing. Number two, they may have used fisheye lenses and those bucks may appear much bigger than they really are. They might be 150-inch deer that look 250. Not 250, but 200. I'm just saying there's so many aspects. You're competing against amazing photography. You're competing against the perception. Only seeing the best because that outfitter could have taken 25 hunters and they've killed four giants. Or they've killed one giant and three nice ones. And you're seeing the one giant and three nice ones.

Well, take a picture of 15 empty tags. Yeah, that's right. Take a picture of that. And you're never going to hunt with that outfitter again. But that's the real world. The real world. But nobody's going to showcase that because that doesn't sell hunts. And that's not exciting to see unpunished tags. So we're competing. Social media world is just really, the expectations are high. You know, I'm seeing nothing but great bucks off the poncy gun. Well, why? It's slow. We know it's slow. But we've already seen 222-inch deer smoked on opening day. We've seen another 35-incher smoked on opening day. So you think, man, there are giants falling everywhere. Well, there's 110 people with tags. Okay, and those 110 people. Count and land over the tags and draw tags. And their guides and teams of hunters and all these things. We can think of two deer. Okay, two deer. Okay.

And you're going at it, well, and not only that, is this perception they've all been killed. So you're like, well, I just did 14 swipes and there was 14, you know, 295s to 210s killed in Nevada. There's probably nothing left for me. And so I'm going to eat my tag. Now I'm kind of getting pissed her by the minute. And my guide, I think, is an idiot. And maybe my food's not great. And I kind of didn't sleep well last night. And pretty soon, and there's a full moon and it's hot and there's no weather and it hasn't rained for two months. I'm pissed. And really, you're just going through what everybody's going through and maybe what everybody's gone through since the beginning of time. But now with social media, we're seeing the highlight reel. I'm just saying. That's all it is. I'm just saying. Keep that reel. And same thing in the trick photography. It's real.

Everybody's got trick photography. You're not competing. You're not throwing up 150-inch deer that look like 150s because that doesn't sell hunts. And so you're throwing up 150s that look like 170 or 80s. And it's just tough. Nowadays, it's just tough. Times have changed. Don't let that factor in too much to your hunt. Don't put too much weight in what you see or the perception of what you see others doing. Just grab your tag, go with your guide, or go on your own, and don't let it change your mindset. I have people mid-hunt hitting me all the time based on what they're seeing. I've got people coming into my camps an hour before dark, you know, multiple times throughout this season, just wondering what we've killed, what we've been seeing. And I'm like, why aren't you out hunting? Ah, I just kind of been a grind. I just thought I'd come in before people got delayed, all that.

And I'm like, dude, stay out. Freaking be hunting. You know, stay out hunting. Don't be hunting dead deer. Don't be sweating it. Don't be checking dead deer. Don't be getting in to check Instagram and checking camps for dead deer, dead sheep, dead elk. Don't be hunting dead stuff. Go hunt what's still alive. It's crazy, isn't it? It's just crazy. I've noticed that a lot too, people hunting. I guess I don't know how to word this, but people worried about what everybody else is doing as opposed to just getting out there and hunting them themselves. Yeah. It's the world is immediacy. You got Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook. I mean, the world's immediate. You know something immediate. You know, your phone goes off. You're wondering who Trump's pissing off now. You know what's in the news. I love the Trump news. You know what I mean? Donald Jr., his posts are priceless.

Have you seen the new one with Pelosi and them beating a punching bag? I mean, geez, that's not a shit. But I'm just kind of making light of that. But the world is immediate. Everything is immediate. And hunting isn't immediate. That's my point about being entitled. We got a buck. We pre-scouted. We've watched this buck for two months. Doesn't mean you're going to kill it. Right. You might hunt him for two years if you have that ability to hunt him for two or three or four. Or some other outfitter might kill him. Or you never kill him. I've got outfitters. You know, Sean's like, Sean, and of course, he's millennials, you know. They're hitting me on the side with this buck, this buck, this buck. And I'm like, Sean, that buck's on our trail cam on such and such. That buck was on our trail cam on such and such. As I'm getting pissed here by the minute.

Like, I don't like to watch my deer die either. And they're my deer because I got a picture of them. Right. But they die. They die. They get hunted. There's great hunters out there. And they're smoking them. And they're posting them up. And that was this deer. And we didn't hunt him because he's got a weak G2. And he's young. And now he's dead. And we'll never get to hunting. And you don't have 15 or 20 deer hunters. So you're going to hunt the one or two deer you really want to hunt. Yeah. But I still don't like watching all these other 200-inchers die. But yet, and so, and we find ourselves camping where there's cell service. And we get to get updates on all of our competition and all the other guys out in the field. And it just goes back to, you know, the clients need cell service. And the clients have Instagram. I don't know. I'm just saying it's tough. I'm saying it.

And when the hunting's tough and it's dry and it's warm, it's full moon and this and that. And the hunting is tough in general. The perception is not reality, even though it feels like people make it their reality. The perception of everybody being successful but you is not true. It's not true. No. It's not true. 100,000 deer tags in Utah alone. I think it's a great point. And I think, you know, going over how many tags, you know, you've eaten this year and Adam's eaten this year and I'm eating this year. I think it shows, it just shows more of the reality than, you know, than, yeah, like you're saying, the 200-inchers you see on Instagram all the time. It's like, we talked about the giant buck that was killed on Pine Valley. I talked to guys that were going to Pine Valley and they got their butts handed to them too and didn't see hardly any deer. And so, you know, had a horrible hunt.

Well, there were big deer that were killed. You know, they are on the unit, but not everybody's going to do it. Yeah.

Anyway, the hunt's changing. That's enough rambling probably. It's time to go kill something, John. Yeah. You got a date with your daughter. Go kill something. So, one thing real quick that we just have going on here at the office is Wyoming points deadline coming up on the 31st. Glad you said that. Good reminder. Give us the rundown, Wyatt. With the changes, everything this year, you did not get your points when you applied. For deer, elk, and animal. Yeah, for deer, elk, and animal. Remember that. You do have to go back in and buy them during this points period to receive them for this year. Yeah. Glad you said that. No opt-in option. I'm going to go check around my streets. I've done it four times, but I'm just going to see all my receipts in my family. And your kids. Yep. And make sure I did them. I know I did.

In our license app, we went through and already got that taken care of for you. Wyatt, yeah, that's awesome. Well, I'm glad you brought that up, Wyatt. Wyatt, of course, he's dealing with our license app pretty heavy, especially this time of year with the renewals and whatnot. And he's dealing with guys. And so, anyway, that deadline is? October 31st. October 31st. Coming up. Ten days. Get her in. I think it's important to, I guess, we should just talk about points real quick. You may never want to go to Wyoming. Get the point anyway. I don't necessarily, not saying sheep or moose is worth it, but I'm saying antelope. It's like right now. Everybody knows I tease about antelope. They're freaking truck chasers. I don't know what's between their eyes, but it ain't much. I'm just saying, get your points. I want to go. I'm glad I've got points.

I've been gaining points as much as you all think I haven't been. I have. And same thing with deer and same thing with elk. We went on a deer hunt. Yeah, we got spanked, but we could have been heroes. We ended up zeros, but we could have been heroes. I'm just saying, get the points so you have options. Get the points so you have options. Deer, elk, and antelope. Get them. Get them for your kids. It's worth the money. $50, $40, and $30, basically, for round numbers. $10 for kids under $18. $10 each. That's right. Well worth it. No brainer. No brainer. Okay. And, of course, you can point boost. You can find people with more points than you and, you know, draw units that you wouldn't otherwise get. So, anyway. Get them for your wife. She's not a hunter. Get points for your wife. Or have some points built up.

If you have kids that aren't even hunting age, have some points built up so you can point boost them when they're 12. Take them on antelope punt sooner than them starting their points at 12, you know. That's right. There's ideas like that. Little things come up. So, well worth getting points anytime you can. Good point, Wyatt. I'm glad you brought that up. Anything else? If you're looking to get a new rifle setup, give Kurt and the guys there at Red Rock Precision a call. 801-425-6574. Or visit them on the web at redrockprecision.com. Great custom rifles. They can customize a caliber. A gun for each situation, whether it's a sheep hunting, backpacking rifle, or a great all-around rifle. Great guys. Very knowledgeable. We use their guns every year. Great long-range setups. But just great all-around well-built guns. So, give them a call and you won't be disappointed. John, you good?

We're good. You ready to get out of here? It's hot in this room. Adam? Good luck. Keep crushing it, everybody. Let us know your success. Next podcast, we're going to talk about a dead sheep. How about that? We'll see. All right.