EP 288: Q&A Part 2, Ones That Got Away, Mule Deer or Elk and Jason on the Hot Seat!

Anything to do with Western big game.

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Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, the entire Epic Outdoors crew, with the exception of Wyatt. Who knows where he's at? He's never telling us. He's out scouting somewhere, I'm sure, plus or minus a few honeydews. But anyway, we're going to finish up this, well, or at least attempt to finish up this question and answer. The podcast we got here. Before we get started, we do want to thank Under Armour for sponsoring our podcast. They sponsor everything we do here at Epic Outdoors and have for years, since inception of Epic Outdoors itself. Alright, thanks y'all. Okay, Bronson, let's see. Actually, before we get started. On UA, they're going to have some products that have been out of stock that are going to hit UA.com again, hunting products. So, by the time this podcast airs. No kidding. Tonight. You're talking about tonight? Yeah, tonight. Okay.

Well, you've got to point out for people to remember, they still get 40% off UA cards at UA.com on our website. On our website. Epic Outdoors. For anything. That's up to what, two grand? Yeah, and that's a personal code. You go onto our website, you click generate the code, it will give you a personal code. So, if you need some hunting gear or biker shorts, there you go. You can get on there and get 40% off. Anything off UA.com. Even golf shoes. Yeah, that's true. And we use them. And they're awesome. They're free. Go to EpicOutdoors.com, download it, and off you go. You've got a $2,000 coupon. Get another one if you spend that kind of money. All right. Let's see. We've got our question reader guy, which is the one and only Josh Pollock. Why? Why is it?

All right. This is for everybody. This question? Yeah. Read it. Okay. Here we go. C. Newman 2712 says, biggest deer that got away? This is Cody Newman. He's up in Oregon. Super good deer. He's videoed a lot of big deer. Takes some awesome photos. Yeah. Giant deer. I met him in the Sconson's Warehouse up there, actually. Come on. Yeah. In Oregon? Yeah. What freak were you doing up there? No. Just. Really? I was working. You're going to be evasive? Oh, okay. I was working. Really? Were you dating it yet? I met him, actually, before that. Moving on. You're up there for business. Yes. Okay. There was a protest up there in Portland. Oh, my gosh. Did you really take part in that? No, I was selling rifles. Oh, yeah. Okay. All right. So, the biggest deer that got away. Bronson, we'll go around the table and start with you.

I can think of that one. We called them the AZ book. Oh, yeah. The only reason there was two deer we were hunting. Because he looked like a buck that would grow an Arizona. We just belonged like an Arizona. Like, big, airy. And I watched the video this weekend. I came across it on an old SD card. And I'm like, that was a big deer. He had one a little bit weaker front fork. He did. But 32 to 33 giant backs. 33 and 7. Stared at you. 33 and 7. Just stared at you, too. And that was with a bow. I never even shot an arrow. I got close. He's the deer we maybe did talk about a while ago. We was feeding in a bush, coming my way, leading the pack. And I was just perfect position. I've got 20 more. He's about 70. Anyway. 73. I wanted to get him within 60 and in. I thought I'd drill him. And all the other deer turned around, fed over the ridge. He looked back, saw him. He turned around about face.

And I never got a shot. Wow. That's honestly. Terrible. It was like. I don't even know what happened to that deer. Nobody killed him. No. The other deer were hunting. You killed him. Yeah. Opening day or two of the. Oh. Muzzle order. Kapow. Freaking. Right in a rainstorm. But that's as far as a deer I hunted that I didn't kill. That's one that I wish I had. There's been a couple other weird ones in Colorado. Didn't really get away. They got them private. And I guess that got away. Yeah. But I mean, I had to walk away and watch them on private. You know. But that's. Can't really count all those in Colorado. We've all had deer that get in touchable places there. But anyway. Somebody else. All right. John. Can you. Do you have a specific one? Maybe in the orange patch here in southern Utah. Oh. As guys were shooting over your head. There have been a few. Yeah.

Back in the day when I could actually draw a general tag. But. Yeah. Got away. Yeah. Okay. Kind of haunt you. Yeah. A little bit. Cheaters and split. Cheaters. Ever when you were letting your daughter or son. Oh. Jeez. Shoot instead of you. And then they get away. Yes. Okay. There was a specific specific buck. Such a good dad. And. Oh. That's when being a good dad does not pay off. My daughter. Oh. We're going to get in trouble. Go get in trouble. Oh. No. No. I mean. Yeah. She. Bless her heart. Just. She. She probably hunted. She hunted most of the archery hunt with me. And she didn't hunt on the archery hunt. She didn't have a bow. So she didn't hunt. But she had a muzzleloader. She could hunt the muzzleloader. And so. We had. Big deer. And. She. She'd been with me. Forever. And then. It was muzzleloader. And we found this deer. And it was right before dark. And she just wasn't.

Tall enough. Like. I could see the deer in the scope. But she. She just couldn't get it in the scope. And. Light just faded. That one got away. Yeah. Did you use that same voice you just used with us as Colton? John's pretty good with his kids. Oh. Yeah. Me. I'm lighting them up. It was the. It was the same year. And I think I probably told this story. That. Then we went out with her brother. On the deer. On the rifle. Hunt. First date. He smokes a buck. He smokes a buck right in front of her. And. I. She had a shot at it. But. Dad. Messed up. And didn't have a shell in. And it was click. And then he shot it. And. Oh. I wasn't. I wasn't. Dad of the year that day. Peterson household. Never been the same. Dad of the year for one kid. The other one hates you. Hey. Such is life. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. That's why you have more than one. That's right. More than one kid. Because some of them.

More than one kid. Some of them you're going to ruin. And some you're not.

All right. All right. Devin. Your deep thought over there. A lot of deer got away. It's a bummer. Probably the biggest was back in 07 Colorado. Booner. Big deer. And I learned the hard way. That was back. Well. I had my right. I put it in my hard case. And it's just rattling on the front of the Honda Foreman. Anyways. Doing what the law says. Yeah. The next day this buck comes out. And my dad still talks about it. And it's coming across his face. Jason does. And I'm running. And I'm. I had my little range finder. 464 yards. I remember. I lay down. Bipod. His body. He looked giant. And I'm just like. This is happening. Poof. Nothing.

Poof. Nothing. And then the third shot. I watched him like. Look down the hill. Like what was that? You're like. And he walked over the ridge. Not even scaring this thing. And I'm telling you guys. This thing was. Mid high 90s. Minimum. Just. Legit. Picture perfect. Giant. Like he was like that. Buck on my wall. Yeah. But bigger. With eye guards. Well I don't want to spend too much time on this question. Can we go to the next one? It's a bummer. It's depressing. It is a bummer. Yeah it is. So anyways. Pick one. Let me finish. Real quick. I go shoot a box. With my last remaining shells. I was like a foot and a half low at 100 yards. Whoa. I didn't have a chance. Yeah. That was the biggest. It got away. That reminds me of Clint. We were in Oregon. And he was shooting at that rabid coyote. The coyote was coming at us. And he was shooting at it. And he had it in one of those little.

What are they? Copeland cases. The Copeland case. Yes. On the four wheeler. Rattles him to death. Anyway. He gets out. And I'm like. Lay him down.

I mean 300 wind back. And he was like. He couldn't hit him at 20 yards. Sucker kept coming. Rabbit coyote. Like a rabbit coyote. Yeah. You'll have to ask him the story. Anyway. He couldn't hit him for nothing. And same thing. It's like a foot and a half or two feet off at 100 yards. Anyway. Anyway. But keep it in the case. Keep it in the case. You know. Everything will be better. That's kind of like the technology committee. Make you put it in a hard case on your four wheeler. They know it's going to get knocked off the side. So it saves deer. There you go. It's going to hurt the electronics. It's going to ruin your optics. There was some rattling going on. I had that one deer named Buster. And I hate to even think about him. Because he was. He would come into the guzzler. Back then you could run cameras all year round. No big deal. So every night. You'd go check. Or every day.

You'd check the camera. Right. And he would have come in. Every other night. Middle of the night. So you know he's still there. We found every deer but him. We hunted him for like. I want to say 30 straight days. It was probably high 20s or 20s. And ad nauseum. You know. With good dudes. It's like. Anyway. Just. He was doing something. None of the rest were doing. And. And. Ended up. Parking my truck. Over across the road. Park. Park my truck. Hike up on the. And. And. Dusty hikes up on the knob. And I stay down there. With him. Because if he comes out. I want to be close to him. But I'm just like. I'm tired of it. And the wind was kind of wrong. But. It's only wrong if you know where he is. I don't know where he is. I just think. Kind of my gut feel is he's bedding off the side of this hill. But. And the wind was wrong. But whatever. Blow him out. We got to change it up.

Because we can't find him. You know what I mean. Like if it blows him. Who cares. At least he'll change his routine. At least I see the deer. Maybe he'll become huntable now. Maybe we change his routine enough. He becomes huntable. I don't know. Sure enough dude. He freaking caught my wind. And the first time we see him. Well. After the hunt starts. First time we see him. Was like 20 days later. That particular day. I blew him out. And he came around. And stood 50 yards. Off the end of my tailgate. Sit there. And stood there. And Dusty's watching him. And I can't see him. Because I'm not near the truck. You know what I mean. Anyway. We hunted about another two and a half days. We called it. You've never seen him again. He quit coming into the camera. Yeah. He changed his pattern. All right. Yeah. He disappeared. Vanished. He left you in it. Yeah. And he didn't. He needed.

He could go down in this great big canyon. And there's water. Running water down there. And it's a jungle. So. Anyway. And nobody. To my knowledge. Has ever found his sheds. Deadhead. Or even seen him again the next year. I don't know. I don't know what to say.

Okay. Well. Who's next? Why do we have to answer that question, Cody? Well. Get ready for the next one after this. Before that. Logan. Do you have something that got away? That's a big haunting bite. Oh, yeah. I don't like thinking about this one, but. Listen. How about one that you cost your dad? I haven't cost my dad anything. He's. No. Is that a. Open a wound. Well. John had a kid story. Let's tell. Let's come from the kid's perspective. Just screw your dad, Logan. I honestly don't think I've cost my dad any animals yet. Maybe even helped him. Yeah. Well. I'd like to think of it that way. Tell us about a deer you didn't get. So. Two summers ago. I had just taken two years off from hunting. So. I was a little excited. And. My dad knew about this buck. This was the muzzleloader hunt. We knew about this buck. He was bigger that year. They killed him the next year. And he went like 185.

So he was bigger the year before. I don't know what he was. Probably high 180s. And. So anyway. That summer. We're just driving down the road. It's like. Nine or ten o'clock in the morning. The hunt's over for the morning. And. We got our muzzleloaders all cased up. And we're heading back. And. We're driving down this little road. All of a sudden. 70 yards off the road. He's just standing there. Big as life. And my dad just loses it. And he's like. Get out. I'll range him. You get out. And so I start. I'm. Grabbing stuff. Paul never loses it. Can you picture. Paul. Paul could lose it over anything. Over two. He's just so excitable. That's what I love being around Paul. He gets excited. And so. He's. He's shaking. Trying to get his range finder out. And I. You know. I'm. And you're like. I'm. He's 70 yards. You don't need a range. Get out. Kill him. Well that's what. Yeah. And I'm.

I'm shaking. Trying to get the muzzleloader out of the case. Because we were one and the same. And so I finally get the muzzleloader out of the case. Get it on the sticks. I sit down. And I'm. I'm on the sticks. And he tells me. I can't remember what he told me. The deer jogged a little bit. And was standing at us again broadside. And he told me it was like. Just over 100 yards. Like 110. 120. Something like that. He's like. He's like the turret's at 100. So he's like. Just aim a little high and send it. So I. I put it just a little bit above. Just a little bit above his shoulder. And. I pull the trigger. Dust blows underneath him. What? And. He's standing. Because with the muzzleloader. They just stand there. And so I. I hurry. And I put another one in. And I'm trying to figure out. How to load it. Because it's been a while. Since I've loaded a muzzleloader. At that point.

And I get it all set back up. And I get the cat back in. It goes back to the frustrating dad. He may or may not have been yelling. Dad's like. Logan. Pull your head out. He was yelling at me. Because I couldn't. Well I couldn't get the stupid. Quickie load thing open. So finally. I just broke the lid off of it. Bunch of powder. He starts yelling at me. Because I broke the quickie load. And that's not helping. Anyway.

It reminds me of the Bronson household. Last night. With the. With the. Taquitos. I can only imagine. All right. Keep going. So anyway. I shot again. And he was. He was significantly farther at that point. So I aimed a little high again. And shot. I shot below him again. And then he got into the trees. And I didn't get another shot. But. I don't know what he would have scored. Did you go shoot paper? Did you figure it out? It was. It was. It was. It was. Shooting a little low. Yeah. You're right. Quite a bit low. No. I was. It was dead on. I was just a little excited. Would your dad verify that? That it was hidden low? He. I usually tell the story that he gave me the wrong range. So he'll be very happy that I told the truth on this one. Instead of one. Oh. Finally came clean on the Epic Outdoors podcast. That's funny. Oh, Paul. Josh. I probably don't need to ask you this story. But. 2016.

Peguich Lake Unit. BLM Road 525. The block was 236. I didn't kill him. Somebody else did. Next question. Jeff B. Paul. Moving right along.

236. What?

Oh, I know. I just. I think it was on the cover. I just don't know. Like, do we need to edit some of this? Right out here in the other room. It's on the cover of our magazine. Nope. You spewed a lot of specific details. That's where that deer died. Well, I mean, we don't talk those kind of specifics. Yes, we do. Over the next month, we're all going to divulge a very deep secret. I told one of mine last time. What was it? What do you mean? On a special tag I had this year. Come on. What? What was that? Oh. Oh. That's a deep secret? Yeah. Deeper than some people wanted to go. He should not be named.

Okay. So, I like it. It sounds like there's. I just sensed a little tension. What do you mean, Jason? I mean, you didn't feel it. If a guy shoots a 230 buck you've been hunting and sleeping with for two months. And it was in 1953. I guess I'd still be pissed. 2016. 2016, he said. It's not even been a decade. I gave you all the details. It's raw. I mean, that's an open wound like I've never seen. Okay. 7, 18 a.m. I don't know. Kaboom. I stand up and I look 200 yards above me and there are the kids standing over it. Oh. So, I don't know. I don't know what else you wanted me to say. Did you shake his hand? Did you say hi? Oh, yeah. I went up and gutted the dang thing for him. Gave him the American. He didn't even know how to gut it. Put it in the back of the side by side. All the back is down for him. Oh. What else do you want to know, Jason? Nothing. Nothing. I don't want to know anything.

Okay. Okay. Next question. Question reader guy. A shed I needed later was found and didn't even get anything. So, anyway. Next question. Somebody didn't give it. They didn't give it to you. Okay. Read this. Jeff B. Palmer.

Wow. Listen up. What states does Jason. I don't. What? Nobody else's name is on here. This is crossed out. I was going to get nervous. What states does Jason have deer tags for this year? I love when Jeff. Jeff. Jeff. Yeah. This is. We're not answering this. What do you mean? What? What do you mean? A better. There's talking states. I just. A better question. A better question is what states don't I have. That's right. Yes. You're not hunting. Are you hunting? I have Idaho. No Oregon. Idaho. Wyoming. Utah. Nevada. New Mexico. Colorado. Iowa. Iowa. That's a state. It's a state. It doesn't say mule there. It says deer. Canada. Or white tail deer. Provinces. Deer. Just deer. Deer tags. Yeah. Provins. Canada. Iowa. A.B. There you go. There's the answer. Moving right along. Question three. That was all the other. It was answered. That's answered. I don't know. I missed one probably. Wyoming.

Yeah. I said that. All right. Keep going. Jock Reed Outdoors says, with scouting, what are you looking for when it comes to hills, shade, ravines? Okay. Scouting. This is an interesting question. Very appropriate for right now. If you're scouting like right now versus October versus November versus December, you know what I mean? There's a lot of different things. Shade's a big deal right now. Right now, it's everything. When it's hot, archery, you know, they don't bed out in the open right now when it's hot. They need thermal shade, whether it be from a rock, cliff overhang, rock, you know, stuff. You know, sometimes they'll bed at 11, 12 o'clock. Now they're in the sun. They've got to move on the other side. But I guess I still probably do key in on north slopes more than I do other stuff. And like we've talked about many times before, sometimes you have to look into the sun because

the deer are in the little cuts that are between you and the sun in the shade, and it stinks to glass that way because we're used to sitting in the sun at your back and everything pops at me. Yeah. Well, I love glassing them when they pop at you, but I remember hunting Nevada. And you know how I love these animal activity indexes. They kind of work. Okay? Hey, let me. Like the fishing thing in the old Garmin rhinos? Yes. Yes, they do. They do because I've been in Nevada, and it's been 105 degrees in some of this stuff at 2 p.m., and there's a buck across the road. And I'm like, what? I look up the high animal activity index. Yeah, I'm dead center of it. They're active. I don't know why they're up and going. They don't even know why they're up and going. So I like that. And then there's something to. There was another. There was, yeah, the moon does whatever to them.

There was another time I was glassing into the sun, and it was just hotter than crap in the afternoon. And the bucks were, when I got up there and put the glass up, they were already up and feeding. And it was just counterintuitive. Like I'm thinking, and you just don't know why, and sometimes there's just things like that. But anyway, put to Adam's point, glassing into the sun because they're baited at the shade. And then generally speaking, without the animal activity index, they act like, a lot of these deer in places we're hunting act like the sun is a form of cancer or something. Like they avoid it like the plague. And so as soon as the sun hits them, they are. In a wash, in a canyon. Yeah. So you've got, it doesn't matter, you know, right off the bat for the first 30 minutes or 45 minutes or whatever, you know, you've got good light to glass in.

And then after that, you are, where would you bed? Where would, look around, where would you bed? Where's the shade work for you? Soft, cool, damp dirt. Yeah. And glass there. Be able to glass there. Don't you think? I'm joking with the damp part. I mean, if you want to make a list, I just did. Plenty of damp today, though, out there. Oh, we got crushed. Crushed with water. Watch high spots out of drainages today. We live in the desert. No, I'm going to attest to Jason, that whole animal activity index, I've seen some weird stuff. Yeah. When we were in Nevada, it was just, it was the second time I went out there. And I remember watching these deer feed all morning long until like 10 o'clock. And I said, and the weird part about it was, is it did not say that the deer were supposed to be feeding at that point. I think it was just a natural thing. It was later in the year.

That was just kind of what they did. They fed till like 10 o'clock. And I was like, well, it's claiming at noon. They're going to get back up and feed again. And I was like, that's not going to happen. But I'm not, I might as well just sit here as to go back to camp and eat. I'll just sit here by this rock and eat. And I'm not kidding you, at noon, on the dot, those deer got back up and went back. Like they got up and walked back to where they were feeding. I'm like, they just sat down two hours ago. They don't need to be back out. The moon tells me, the moon on the other side of the earth tells me to get up. Well, you made a good point, though, about the time of year. You get in October. It's not as hot. Yeah. And there also starts to get a biological clock kind of ticking. Like, okay, rut's coming. You know, sometimes you can get more activity based on food sources are here now.

It's freezing maybe at night. This feed's going to die and be crispy brown here soon. There's that get it while you can. And it's like leftovers at Thanksgiving, you know, at 530 the next morning, your mom's got it put away. It's in the fridge, and you've got to work to get it again. You've got to work to get it out and all the condiments and everything else to go with it. Yeah. And magpies. Watch for magpies. I learned that, too. Devin taught me that. Devin has a great magpies toy. Several. Watch for magpies. What? Let's hear it. Let's interject that. In fact, look for that on an upcoming episode. Question from Jason Carter. Devin, tell us about a magpies toy. Just watch them. Trust me. Yeah. They do. They will lead you. They lead you to the meat. Yeah. They'll land on a buck, especially in this big sage country. Just watch them. Tick a year.

If they go in a little clump of bushes and you're wondering if the deer is still there. And they're in there for more than four and a half seconds, you probably should look at that bush real close. I remember. Multiple, multiple times. Picking ticks off the back of a buck's neck, basically. Pretty much. And I think going back to this question, one of the things that, it depends on the area. As to where the deer just, in some areas, have specific, they follow the same trails. They do the same thing. And so, if you're glassing for long periods of time, it gives you a chance to learn that. And so, maybe not just glass the morning. Maybe once in a while, sit till noon or longer on a specific area. You find bucks. Watch where they go. Watch what they do. Jan and I tracked a buck last year. And we couldn't figure out why we couldn't find this deer. Like, what? Are we stupid?

I mean, can we, like, are we even trying? Are we even trying? It felt like we got schooled so bad. So, ended up seeing him, then losing him. Went in there that night. Didn't see him. Went in there the next morning. Didn't see him. So, I said, okay, I'm cutting his tracks. We know where his track is. Cut his track. Started tracking him. He hit every ravine perfectly. A, ravines have better feed because they have the bulk of the water. And B, you can't see. You can't be seen. Dude, I said, all the time. We were tracking. I said, look at our glass and knob. She's like, I can't see anything. Yeah, that's right. Kept going. Look at our glass and knob. Look at our glass and knob. We did that. The whole time. He owned that hill that you thought, we thought we could see everything on. And there was only a half dozen times. Five or ten percent you couldn't see. Yeah. Yeah.

The majority of the time that he would have been feeding in there, we wouldn't have been able to see him if we had been at the right spot at the exact right time that he went through a little, you know, whatever, change in topography, then we would have been able to see him, but we didn't hit that perfectly. Yeah. And I mean, and it was multiple days. We tracked him again in another spot, same thing. And he just lived in these ravines. And it was just right that you couldn't see him. I said, look, we were glassing over there last night. Guess what? This is where he was. No wonder. And they make a life out of that. And it's, I don't know that they're that smart. I think they're pretty smart. But I think also that's where the best feed is. It's down low in these ravines and draws. I think on a year like this when resources feed is off the charts everywhere, I've seen a lot more randomness.

There's not a lot as much routine this year. You get in a year where it's just wherever you want to go, there's good feed to eat. That's a tough, that's tough. Look everywhere. They're going to live in the trees too. Look in hills, shade, and ravines. All of them. And the jungle. And jungle. Yep. All right. This next one. Okay. This looks like it was sent in by one of us. Logan underscore he underscore gone. Is that your alter ego? It's not me. No questions. Simply thank you and great content and resources as a member. Thank you, Logan. I appreciate it. You're welcome. It wasn't you. We're doing good, by the way, with this page. We're supposed to, you know, blow through these. And we're really blowing through them. We've got three down. Some of these are going to be one word answers. No. Red. There's a couple of those.

Redfield underscore Dylan says, what's your guys' knowledge of the Yakima Training Center in Washington? Unfortunately, this is a wonder answer for me. Nothing. Is that where the Steelers play? We don't have any personal knowledge, but there is some legit stuff. But we don't have any personal knowledge of it, right? So we don't want to blow out somebody's unit either. All right. Next question. Pistol underscore sand. Early October mule deer. Pre-scout two days and then hunt 10 or hunt 10. Hunt the last 12 days. Hunt the last 12 days migration possible. Yeah, that's what he's saying. Well, early October. I don't know. Thursday, mate. It's really hard. Pre-scout, I love that word. I'd probably go. Me too. It's the best word ever invented. But anyway. I would say scout. What would you do? I would say scout two and hunt 10. Okay. John, what would you do?

Scout two, leave, come back for the last eight.

Okay, John. If he said late October, I would buy maybe the migration stuff. But this is early October. Early October. Maybe some units we know in Utah, they move early. But in a few weird places. I was going to say it's so unique. He's probably talking. He's probably talking about a Nevada, you know, because they have some, a few units, they have the early, mid, late. Yeah. And then they also have two, you know, like a split. I just, I think the two days, I don't, I'd take two days there before. Is he talking 10 days? And then hunt 10 right after? Or do you just hunt straight 10, 12? We talked about that last time. I mean, after five to seven days. And your early October, I'm like, if I can go back, I will. That mid, middle October is like the worst time in the world to hunt. Killed a lot of big bucks in Nevada October 5th. Yes. Lots of them. With no rutting.

Not very many on the 10th to the 15th. They start moving around and hodgepodge, and then they get pushed by a few hundreds. They dig into the brush with magpies. They live in the trees. All right. Okay. All right. Yeah. Whatever. 12 days is a lot, no matter what you decide out. It's probably, anyway, keep going. All right. Kind of follow up on to that. How many mule deer rut hunts are happening this year for you guys in the office? Colorado, it sounds like. Just do a raise of hand of how many you have, and somebody add them up and say it. Let me. Oh, for you, for you personally. Just in Colorado. Colorado. Colorado this year. Who has a Colorado tag? What? Well, okay. Okay. So, three. That's three, right? Three. Three. Fifty percent. Yeah. I have the New Mexican one, which could turn into a rut hunts. Okay. Next question.

Screamin' Seagull says, do you think mule deer herds in Utah will ever recover to exceed statewide goals? No. No. Next question.

I think there'll be some recovery. I don't think they'll exceed goals. Peacombe valleys, they'll never exceed. Yeah. I think there's too many changes, too many, collectively. People, highways, predators, all of those things in the mix. Yep. It's hard to know. No, the answer's no. No. Exceed statewide goals, and if they're constantly. If they change the goal to 100,000 deer in the state. That's my point. That's my point. That's their own chance. New achievable goal. And statewide. Like, you may achieve it in some units, but you're never going to. Statewide, every goal is achieved. Basically, will mule deer herds recover to what they were in the height of their glory? RJ underscore steed says, are Utah elk behind on growth this year? What do you think, Josh? It says no right here. I'm not sure who wrote that, but I haven't really been out, so. Josh, you're a lion sucker.

I've heard there are some that are behind or down. Beaver. Yeah, beaver. But I don't think that's. I don't think. That could also be a very strong smoke screen. They're fully built. They're fully built, ready to go right now. Yeah. And they put on. They were behind. It was pretty wild to see some of the bulls that were well behind. And they, I swear, grew more in two weeks than they did in two months. Yeah. So, it was pretty awesome. So, the answer's no. Yeah. If you've got an elk tag in Utah, Nevada, Arizona. Scout now. Go. Scout now and shoot opening day. So, just from a biologist standpoint, what could cause that? Probably the delayed green up. Delayed green up. It was so. Cold. Had a big wet. Even in southern Utah, we were not losing animals. We had snow covering cold. May and June. It never got warm until June. Elk shed in March and they start growing.

Even if they didn't get above 80 degrees. 13 hours later, they're growing. March looked like, or April looked like March to me. Yeah. The whole month. It just never got warm. And so, the real green up. And then it, usually when it starts warming up, it greens up all the way up the mountain. 10,000 feet fast. 10,000 feet. It was like July 1st before it greened up. Yeah. And there's grass at your waist up there now that's still as green as could be. So, they're packing it all. They never didn't have great stuff to eat. It was just, didn't all come in as early. Okay. That's all. Yeah. Up north potentially, I guess. But down here in the southern region, it doesn't seem to appear to be that way. We answered this one last time. I thought we did. What? Yes. Did we? Yeah. Okay. There must have been multiple questions there. Might be a duplicate. I think that led into other questions. It did.

Jordan K801 says, talk about some of your best sheds y'all have found.

Oh. I used to be a much bigger shed hunter than I have been in the last 10 years or so. Mainly, maybe this job. We're so tied here in the winter and spring. Being a dad. To be on top of them. Being a dang near 50 years old. Kind of changes things. Yeah. I go shed hunt, but I have no. I used to be able to kind of scout bulls or deer and know where I was going. And know where some bulls have been winter. Now I just go shed hunt. Mainly because we're so busy. I don't have as much time as I used to. I haven't shed hunted in 10 years. I'm just not into participation trophies. I don't know. Come on. I love them. I love them, too. It's fine. We killed Joshua because of the sheds we found here. Four 20s. That's probably one of your highlights. That's a highlight. Four 20s bull. And then was it the next year or how many years later? So we found him and killed him the next year. Yeah. Yeah.

But found a 2,000 set. 2,000 was dry. Yeah. Found a 2,000 set. 2,000 won. And then didn't find 2,000 to kill him. 2,000. But then, yeah. Then I found a set of deer sheds from a deer that I hunted that I thought had disappeared in Nevada. And I don't talk about this one very much because people are pretty, you know, screw around. If they see the color of dirt you're in, they figure out what unit you're in. It's a different world now, too. Yeah. Yeah. So sheds are sensitive because people. It leads to answering puzzle pieces. That deer's alive. And someone remembers the deer. Well, and then they remember the deer. And then they got trocken or whatever. And then they end up with, okay, if this deer was found there, there's 14 other sets of these other deer. Should be in the same geographic area. We're going to go pound this area.

And by the way, we'll show Jason that we have now 10 years of his deer. And that's what people, they love to do it. So anyway, but did find a buck that was legit giant, you know, and glassed up one of his sides. And then, you know, next week, by the next weekend, we had the other side. And just, you know, something special, you know, that you don't talk about too much. Yeah. Found another buck that was legit, you know, big 230s buck that you just, you know, would do anything to kill. But then, you know, has to be lion crap. You can't, you know, he was gone. Never find him again. Yeah. Just a figment of your imagination, you know. So, but then some of these sheds, you know, you kill a buck and then you want to go back and find their sheds. And we've done that a little bit. So it's, and they do teach you things. Those sheds teach you things.

But more when you're young because you don't have the points, you don't have the money to, you know, to buy a landlord tag as much. Or you don't have the points built up to command tags like we do now as we're old. And we have the points built up. We can do a lot of things now. And so you shed hunt. We shed hunted a lot when we were younger. And it taught you a lot. Like it taught us a lot. Like you, when you find their sheds, then, you know, then you're looking for late season tags that we know where this bull goes. And these guys have killed many governor bulls over finding sheds. And then we know this bull come back in. We killed Joshua and came back in. And we killed him right where we find his sheds. You know what I mean? End of December. Yeah. End of December. Three days before the end. Two days before the end. Yeah. It used to end at the end of December.

And so, you know, and we knew he'd come back. We didn't know where he read it. We didn't even know where he went. There was no cow unit that we knew of. Didn't even have trail cameras back then. So, you know. Probably. He probably heard it. A hair of my. Yeah. Mares or something. But it's. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He read whatever. But, you know. But there's. There's so many. So that's still. That same thing with here in Utah. How many of these bulls have they killed late because of the sheds and whatnot. And so it means something. And it's sensitive to people because that bull or buck or whatever isn't dead yet. People are quiet. Yeah. Well, and if. And somebody can find a set of sheds and nobody could know about a particular bull. And then somebody finds a set of sheds and just throws a picture up. And then. Now he's known. And people. Like. We're going to find that thing in summer.

Now it's on some radars. But what I find interesting is there's some people that have. That'll get trail camera video of. And photos of. Summer. Specific bulls. And never know where the. Or. Yeah. Never know where it goes. And then those sheds are found. You know. And dots. And then it's nice to. It's nice to know what that bull scored. Yep. But. It'd be really nice to know where those sheds were found because. You know. That bull's going to be vulnerable in the late. Especially like this year. Utah. Late archery. Hunt or something like that. Yeah. You know that bull's going to be there. Yeah. It's going to be there. Yeah. He's huntable. Well that's the thing. Because there's a lot of times with bulls. They'll move a lot. Archery hunt. Rifle hunt. Muzzle hunter hunt. All that kind of stuff. You know. Like. Geez. How does a bull like that make it? But. If there's a late season hunt.

Generally that's where they'll go to shed. And that's the one hunt. You can say. Hey. I know where he's at. Yeah. You know. At least then. So you can start backtracking from there. But. It can help you out a lot. There's something about picking up sheds. Like. Elk sheds you have to put on your shoulder to get out. Yeah. There's something to be said for. If you can one hand them and just not. You know. What. I mean. Whatever. That was a poundage. But. If you can put them. If you have to put them on your shoulder to get out. Bronson. You've picked up a few of them. You guys. Josh. Did a lot. Devin. I mean.

You know. You know what it's like. It's. It's a special feeling. And you keep those sheds forever. Yeah. Probably too long. Really. Huh. Does that mean. Is that. Does that work. I got a few of that I kept. Not as. Not as many. I probably should have. But. Yeah. Feel bad when you look them back on. Well. You know. They're. 350 or 60 bulls. You wish you'd had them now. At the time. I mean. At the time. They were. Really nice bulls. But not. Yeah. Not the ones you get. You needed the money for gas. You said. Well. I should have to pay for it. They got in the way. Yeah. You get 500 bucks. Tell your wife. That you got. I need to pay for a new optic. Or whatever. I mean. You need diapers. Honey. You get a job. You get a job. You get a job. Babe. Never use that line. Logan. Never use that line. I'll write that one down. All right. Anything else. Devin.

You picked up a lot of sheds over the course of time. He's got some in the basement. Up soon. Oh yeah. Stacks. Yeah. I sold a lot of them. Yeah. I did too. But. I don't know. I enjoyed finding. I enjoyed more so than anything. I always found old stuff. Because I never lived with animals much. I just hiked a lot. I enjoyed that part of it. But I really liked finding multiple years. That was my favorite. Like. It was like. I know you're still alive. I've got three sets off you. And I'm missing a year. It would drive me nuts. And it was neat to have places like that. That you could go back to. That. No. Nobody was. They were overlooking for whatever reason. And you were finding. We had. My dad and I had places like that. Yeah. Southeastern Utah. On the San Juan unit. That. Would have three or four years of a bull. It was a five by six. Heavier than crap. I mean. Just. Just go. He's back.

I was right. Or find multiple years in the same day. I love that. Yeah. It's fun. That's when you know you're in the right spot. I guess. Yeah. Big deal. Like. It's a big deal. Shed hunting. Can lead to killing stuff. If you're strategic about the season. As well as just knowing what they score. And it just. Helps you. Do it year round. Too. Well. You know. Plus or minus. There are some shed seasons. I'll tell you. A really quick shed story. That involves two of us in the room. And may not even know it. No kidding. One of my best days. I found. Mid-190's deer. Set. Like a 370's set. And a 390's single. No. Awesome. Right. One day. Do you remember that? No. When you saw me. On the road. Oh. Yeah. That was funny. Yeah. John saw you. Yeah. Somebody. I was like. Is this you? Yes. Is antler strapped to your four-wheeler? In the bed of my truck. Yes. Yes. I remember that. Where was he?

He was in town by then. Wasn't he? I was in town. Yeah. It could have been anywhere. Utah. Yeah. But he was coming from the direction of Nevada. How long ago was it? You don't know. It was a stack. Man. How long ago was it? That was a third side off a bull I had looked for for years. How did you know Devin? He didn't. How did you get to ask him who he was? Somebody else. Yeah. Something. Based on what you were driving? Yeah. Based on. Yeah. It was just funny. He knew Chris at the time. Oh. Somebody drives this. Yeah. Chris was like. Yeah. My brother. You know that guy? Yeah. Yeah. It's Archibald. Didn't cover him good enough. No. I mean. You can't cover him very good when you get a four-wheeler. Yeah. It was an awesome day. He comes and goes through the storm. He had a small Toyota and it was overflowing. It seemed. I mean. They were big. That's what I did on my spring breaks.

Everybody go here and there. I would literally go by myself for five days. Yeah. It was awesome. Yeah. Back when we were young and in shape. All right. Moving on. And some of the big deer you kill, you want every shed, including their four-grid horn year. You know what I mean? Just the DNA. I want their button buck. Yeah. Everything about them. Everything. All right. Paul at K. Where we at? Tucker. Tucker. Ryan underscore 13 says, can everyone break down their current optic setups?

How about we go by piece and everybody just say what they got? Maybe. Or do you want to go by person and say everything you got? Yeah. Go by person. Okay. You start, Jason.

Well, what I'm using, what I've got is a lot of just stuff, right? But what I'm using is Swaro NL12s. And then I have the NL8s. Bronson loves to tease me about them. They're amazing. He has something white tails. It's not even about that. They're amazing. So, NL8s. And then NL8s, NL12s. So, I don't need a 10. And I use a 6-hour VAK and 2400. I kept the older one, too. For a rangefinder. And then spotters. So, I have the, I have, you know, a straight STX 95, 85, 65, snap on and off, depending how I want, as well as a BTX. And it all kind of comes with me, along with a pair of 15s from way back, in case I break my 12s.

And then I have another spotter. I have an Harpia. You can tell Jason. And I'm not an angle guy. And I have a Harpia, which is angles in the truck with me. You can tell Jason and I are about the same age, because other than the 8-power, Piers, everything he has is what I use. Yeah. Ditto here. Pretty much all of us. Yeah. And so, and then my kids, I've got them with Zeiss 15s. They're awesome. But Zeiss 15s are a little more affordable, but yet, you know. Great. Great type of glass. Yeah. They're just, they're excellent for what they cost and whatnot. And so, you know, my kids are using that. They've also got some of the hand-me-down scopes, which are freaking amazing scopes. Way better than we ever had as a 20-something-year-old. Dumb. Is there any piece that y'all use that you're surprised you still use? That, you know, you thought, oh, I'm going to sell this. I have the original BTX.

I replaced it. I had the original BTX when they first came out. Years and years and years ago. It was a long time ago, BTXs came out. Okay. Well, I don't, have they changed it? I don't know. I'm an ignorant question. But I kind of wonder about that. Like, maybe, you know how little coatings change here and there? I'm just like, eh. I don't know. I have an STS-80 that I thought I would never use when I upgraded. And I use it surprisingly a lot. And we get kids just like a great size. And I'll get rid of them because you've always got to, your wife, your kids need something like Jason alluded. They got better glass than we had just because I've got 10 power SLCs that are 20-something years old. Well, I get rid of them when you've got kids, you know. I've got 10 power ELs that I don't use much. One of my kids says I use them.

A couple of you guys, maybe just Josh, I don't know, use the EL ranges, don't you, Josh? Yeah. I kind of switched to range-finding binoculars a couple years ago, and I can't go away from them now. I mean, obviously, I don't use them during scouting season. But it is funny. Even just, I find myself, I use that range-finder a significant amount. Anytime I glass that range. I don't know. Josh uses the TA. The tracking assistant to get back to his truck. How many batteries do you use a year? They're good. I put a fresh one in at the first of every year, but it's never gone out on me. We had a guy, too, just recently struggle with the Leica and the battery life. He wasn't using the white Energizer, basically. And then also didn't turn off the Bluetooth, so it's constantly trying to pair and kind of wore out the battery. And so just make sure.

I mean, just turn your Bluetooth off on the SIGs or anything. I always have a spare battery in each truck side-by-side case. That's the one thing with, like, EO ranges. Like, you have to think of that where the SIG, I don't even take it in my pack until it's time to hunt. Yeah. You know, so it's never getting used. But I found myself even last weekend. You found yourself? You know how he bugs you when people say, I run this? What bugs me is when people find themselves. I found myself. I found myself glassing off with this knob. It was really weird. So what did you find yourself doing? Oh, well, don't tell me everything, but what did you find yourself doing? He called that a trigger. You've been triggered. I found myself. Where did you find yourself? What were you doing? When last weekend, I had my 12s because when I'm scouting, I don't need my ranges.

So I just take my 12s with me because I don't want to carry both pairs. But I'm sitting there and I see some bulls, and I'm like, I don't know why. Why do you push the buttons that aren't there? It's mid-July, Joe. Yeah, it's just weird. Why would you need a range bull? Just to see. Who gives a shits? I don't know. Like, who cares? That's a tweaker, man. But I'll do it all the time. That's a tweaker, man. When I go to glass, like, I get up on a knob. Those are tweaker tendencies. They are.

When I get up on a knob, I just literally range. The trigger figure just goes. I literally range several different pieces of them range. Like, okay, it's 400 yards to that hillside. It's 300 to that hillside. It's 1,000 yards to that rock. Not to tell you anything you don't know, but you're getting old. And you get set in your ways. You're used to it. It's like, hypothetically, if the tag was opening day right now and had a gun in my hand, how far is that? What knob would I need to get to to shoot? I'm going to put it in my diary so I know that if I come here in the dark, I know how far I'm going to shoot. If I need the 6.5 or my 300 or my... I don't know. You find yourself... And so when you do, what mode do you put it on? Which gun? Like, which profile do you have it on? Whichever gun I'm going to be using. So like last weekend, what mode was it on? I wasn't using it.

I didn't have it last weekend. I found myself. Found myself. You found yourself trickery. Tweaking for the button. Tweaking for the button. I don't know. Did you see him up there with Judson? I can totally see him. That tree's 960 yards away. And he's like, Dad? Let's play a little game, son. Dad, who gives up? See that rock over there? How far do you think you can throw a rock that far? How far do you think that is? Don't worry, son. You'll get better at it. 40-something years of range. You guys laugh. One of these years. 40-something years of ranging everything I've ever looked at. That teaches you something. We hit a knob, and we get up there, we start glassing, and we all have tags, and we have a knob, and I've already ranged everything, and a buck hops up, and I hip-shoot him at 400 yards. Oh, come on. You guys are going to be like, yeah, tweak. Keep tweaking. Who couldn't guess 400?

Keep tweaking. I mean, geez. Hold on. Josh is the one guy that would benefit if we did away with range. Speaking of technology and all these little, you know. He's got enough little waypoints saved. Well, and he's got enough. He's trained himself for 40 years of range-finding rocks. I'm telling you. He would win. If we eliminated the range-finder, I would take Josh with me on my run. I feel like he's played the game. Yeah. He would tweak a non-range-finding bino and probably guess me a pretty close yardage. Because there's stuff that surprises me. I don't know. I don't know why. I just do it. But I just find it easy, though. I'm sure you can find yourself. Having a range-finding pair of binos is just, it takes an extra step out for me. I feel like I get a better range just because I have both eyes open. I'm doing at the same time. And I'm. It's more steady.

I'm just sitting there doing it. It's. Yeah. It's another. I have to obviously carry two pair of binoculars because I have 12s. But I don't know. Yeah, they don't manage range-finding in a 12, at least in Swarrow. So. Could get a range-finding 15 in a Laika. Yeah. Might try. He could. Okay. I know where there's one. I think we covered most of that. Are we done? What? I think we're done for today. We'll pick up the rest of the next episode. Really? Yeah. I guess so. Where are we at? Yep. It doesn't matter where we're at. We've scribbled out. Yep. Yeah. We're caught up. All right, everybody. Well, I guess these guys are cutting us off. Time to scout or it's time to shoot your bow or time to. Go range rocks. Tweak with your range finder. Do something. I'm going to find myself. Find myself running trail cameras. I trigger both of you. No. The trail camera season is over.

You find yourself running a pair of real range. There you go. How many times do we see people talking about running stuff on freaking social media just recently? Oh. Crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's run. We better run. All right. Let's find ourselves gone. Gone for the day. Got to run. Bye. We'd like to thank all of our sponsors here at Epic Outdoors. For top of the line hunting, clothing, and apparel in every environment, visit UnderArmor.com. We'd like to thank Under Armour for being our title sponsor and making this podcast happen. Visit our website, EpicOutdoors.com, for discount codes to Under Armour Hunting Apparel. Handcrafted, quality, precision rifles from start to finish. Red Rock Precision is one of our sponsors, and many of our staff uses Red Rock rifles. Visit RedRockPrecision.com to find out more.

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