EP 105: Big Deer Tips and Tactics with Tony Trietch

I spotted, I mean, went into a little creek bottom, I snuck down to it. They were vulnerable, there was no pressure, they were still in their summer pattern. Triple drop tines, I still see them clear as day in my head. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter here with the Epic Outdoors podcast, coming at you from southern Utah. Got an awesome guest, got Tony Treach on the line. But right before we get started here, I do want to thank Under Armour for sponsoring this podcast. All they do for us here at Epic, as well as a lot of hunters out there that are wearing their gear. They've got some incredible gear and a lot of different models for 2018. 2019 will be much the same, they're going to keep after it and keep producing great gear. So we're excited for that and appreciate them and their support. I do want to also thank another advertiser of ours, Thompson Long Range. Mark and Scotty Thompson up in northern Utah, Logan, they introduced me to long range hunting.

They were one of the first major companies to take on the long range thing and do it in a way that was what we consider to be ethical. It was one of those things where you could actually, you know, count on your gun doing what it was supposed to do. And so anyway, don't hesitate to give them a call. It's ThompsonLongRange.com or 435-713-4248. So appreciate them and their support of Epic. But anyway, Tony, you on the line? You betcha. I'm here. Right on. So anyway, I've caught Tony. He's in the middle of Nebraska. What's going on, Tony? Oh, I am somewhere in Nebraska. I can't tell because the signs sell to the town here covered in blowing sticky snow. It's a mess. Well, are you seeing any mule deer out there? I can barely see the road.

It's ugly right now. I went from freezing rain to, well, I went from rain to freezing rain to now it's just, I just pulled in to get some diesel and there's two foot drifts in the parking lot. Jeez, crazy. You might have to use those snowshoes you were posting on social media. Yeah, yeah. To get gas. I got changed to the truck. I wasn't thinking I'd need them until I got down to New Mexico, but who knows. Yeah, right on. So is that where you're headed right now is to New Mexico? Yeah, yep, yep. It's awesome. I've heard it's actually pretty good weather down there. Of course, the snow may turn off crunchy, which is a bummer. I don't know. It might be a little bit tough stalking them. Yeah, I've been hearing the same things. It's from the locals that I know that aren't too far from there that have went down to just watch deer.

They said there's already more migration than there's been the last couple of years. Yeah, I've heard that too. They're all out of the forest and down on the BLM is what I'm hearing. Yep. So it'll be exciting no matter what, I guess. Give us a little bit of your background. I know, I mean, you know, you're known as a mule deer hunter and everything else, but just give us kind of that background of where you were raised, how you grew up hunting big muleys, and then, you know, other species or whatever. What makes Tony Tony?

Grew up in the Midwest, actually. I went to college long enough to get a degree and realized I didn't want to do anything outside and went into construction, and it really worked well for me. And I've built a small business that, you know, over the last 20 years, it's allowed me to take off every fall and head west. And that started with just hunting the Midwest, you know, hunting Illinois and Ohio and Iowa when I could get a tag, and then just I gradually kept moving further away from home, and I started hunting Kansas, and then Montana, eastern Montana. I started for whitetails, and I just got the mule deer bug. And the next thing you know, I'm diving into backpack hunting, and, you know, it's evolved to now it's just a search for wherever I can find a good tag and wherever I can maybe find a hidden gem.

Just chasing big deer wherever they live, huh? Deer, elk, yeah. I'm an equal opportunity guy.

Oh, that's good. That's good. Yeah, I'll kill big bulls wherever you can, you know, whenever you can get a tag. And actually, people sometimes say that, you know, these giant mule are the toughest thing to kill and maybe find. But, you know, my response is I challenge you to go out and kill yourselves, you know, a boon and crockett elk and get the tag and then make it happen. I don't know. It's just as tough, it feels like. I've heard that same thing for years, that, you know, a boon and crockett, typical mule deer. Maybe it's just a typical part of it, but that's the hardest critter to find. I tell you what, I've seen a lot more 200-inch mule deer than I've seen 380 bulls. So I'm not exactly sure I agree with that. Yeah. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong spot. Yeah, I don't know. It's tough. It is tough.

And then to get a tag and, you know, get the right elk tag on the right year without drought or whatever. And then have it come together. And, of course, a lot of it's public land anyway. Same with our mule deer hunting. But it is. Yeah. It's tough. So anyway, so you chased these whitetails as you got cranking. I mean, Illinois, Ohio, Iowa, you know, you were saying eastern Montana, Kansas. But did you kill some great big whitetails and then just kind of get tired of it? Or just that muleys are better? You know, I did. I've got a lot of big bucks that I've, big whitetail that I've killed. And we'll brag a little. Like, let's talk about that. Some I've got some booners. I've got a lot of Pope and Young bucks. You know, the first couple of years I hunted Kansas was with a firearm, but pretty much everything else has been with a bow. And I, I really don't know.

I don't know how many deer I've got, you know, on the wall, like mature bucks at home. I don't I'm I've never had any officially scored. I'm guessing there's probably 30, 40, 50 of them at the house. That's awesome. And there was, you know, there'd be years where I'd get a mature buck in every every state that I went to. And there'd be years where I only get one or two. But it's I got good at it. But it's but I and I grew up hunting in a tree stand. Right. I'm from Michigan. So that's just what you do. But, man, I'm I'm it is I'm not the hold still type of guy. So once I discovered, you know, like hunting in Kansas, out in the open, hunting in eastern Montana, out in the open. And that just that that just settled on it with me so much better than than sitting in one spot in a blind or a tree stand for, you know, 12 hours in a day.

And I still have all the connections with my buddies, the farmers back in the Midwest. But I haven't been back since 2011 or 12. Yeah. And it's just hunting the hunting in the West, whether it be mules or whitetail. It just spot and stalk ambush hunting on my feet. I think I'm just more I'm more effective. And I got buddies that aren't and can't, you know, it's to them that they'd much rather, you know, sit on their butt. And boy, it's that's just not my style. And I think it's more I work more to my strengths when I'm when I'm when I'm mobile. And it just my game is kind of as I've gotten older, I think I'm actually probably more suited for hunting muleys than I am whitetail. So, well, I have guys I went out with a buddy of mine and he's killed a lot of a lot of really good whitetails, too, even on the eastern plains of Colorado.

And, of course, Iowa and a lot of the places have big whitetails. And I went to Kansas with him. And, you know, of course, you sit in a blind and do your thing. And I couldn't take it anymore. And I got out and started glassing him. I started glassing him with 15s and I did so much better than sitting in a blind. Oh, yeah. You know. I had the same experience. My first year in Kansas, I was invited with some friends and we showed up to meet the rancher. And he's going to give us a tour of all the properties that either owned or leased. And we stopped the first one. And this is west central Kansas. And we get out of the truck. And he's like, well, I got this section and this section. He points, you know, to the north. I'm like, I'm looking. I did like a 360, like looking around. I'm like, where are we going to hunt? There's no trees. There's not a bush. There's nothing.

And then, yeah, it isn't until you start walking out there. You realize there's little grassy draws. And it might only be a, you know, a change of topography of just 10 feet in these draws. But it's something, you know, it gives us a spot where the farmer doesn't cultivate the ground. And there's some brush there or a little bit of grass. And that's all they need. And it was a whole new game. And I think we hunted that first year of our first couple days out of blinds, kind of like we thought we needed to. And before we realized we needed to get out, get moving. And it worked. They were, it's a different game. Get on the highest rolling hill you can and glass with 15s. You know? Yeah. That's what I was doing. And it is amazing to me what they can live in. I did the same thing. I was out there in like, I think it was unit 16.

And, I mean, I'm just looking around and I'm like, you know, I don't know what I'm doing here. And I don't see that there's any game. But then when you start, you start applying yourself a little bit. Anyway, it's a whole different ballgame. But I still, I have a need for a 200-inch whitetail. I don't know why. And I don't know how I'm ever going to kill one. It's like giving away a 200-inch mule deer or 210 or 220. You don't, nobody's going to A, sell you one or give you one. And so you've got to earn it and you've got to start working it. And the closest place for me would be Kansas. And then now I've got to run the trail cam trapline and figure out property. And you've got to engage yourself so much that it's, I just have to give up mule deer or I have to give up elk or both. Yep. You know what I mean? And then you've got to do that for 10 years and watch a buck grow up.

But just like we do mule deer. And so I just resolve myself that I'm not going to kill one. I'm probably not going to kill a 200-inch whitetail. You know, because you've got to apply yourself so much. Yeah. A 200-inch whitetail, I mean, I've seen a lot more 200-inch mule deer than I have 200-inch whitetails. And I've spent, you know, more time hunting the whitetails. I think, I mean, the equivalent of a 200-inch whitetail with some trash is probably. Whitetail would be 220 and 230. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. No, it is. And I've looked at some of these, you know, significant whitetail hunters and what they've killed. And then, and some of them haven't killed a 200-inch gross whitetail. But when you see them, they're impressive. I love those gnarly eye guards. And there's just something about them. But I can't, like my wife says, you get too many addictions as it is.

Don't deal with the whitetails. Don't deal with anything else, you know. And she's right. So anyway, where do you, so where do you live now? Like, I'm not saying like, you know, publicize what city. But what state are you in now versus when are you going to move out here? Yeah. Well, that's the thing. I am in northern Michigan in a really touristy town. It's no big deal. I'm sure it is. It's Traverse City. So it's a beautiful, you know, small, medium-sized city right on Lake Michigan. And it's the niche I have with my business. I don't know if I, I mean, I'm sure there's touristy little areas where I could come build big custom luxury homes out west. But, you know, I don't advertise anymore. It's just a matter of we've settled really well. You know, where, I mean, the builders that I work with and that I help with, they cover me when I'm gone out fall, you know, hunting out west.

And it's, I couldn't ask for a better situation. So I think I hunt more out west than most of my buddies that live out west at this point right now. And if I moved out west, it might change. So. Yeah. I. Well, it's true. And, too, coming from back east, when you're out here, you're 100% engaged where some of us that live out here, you know, we still, I still try to go to work each day in the middle of my scouting. And maybe I'm not 100% focused where when you're out here, like you're 100% focused. You came out here for that one sole purpose, you know. Yeah. And in large part can be more successful by doing that. Yep. I just come out of the mountain every couple weeks to do payroll for the guys and send an invoice once a month. And, you know, that's about it. Yeah. Sounds to me like you're a retired mule deer hunter. That's what it sounds like.

I've been accused by friends and family of being semi-retired for the last 10 years, yeah. But it's, but I still work, I still work pretty hard. Yeah. My guys might argue that, but they don't see everything I do, so. Right. And sometimes you've got to show them that you're, you know, you've got to show them up here and there. That's the way it is here in this office, too, Tony. Yeah. Let's see. So when did you get started? Like, when do you feel like you made that switch from hunting, you know, obviously Kansas for whitetails and the eastern side of Montana to starting to really put in the time on mule deer versus whitetails? Boy, it wasn't that long ago. I'd say six years ago. Okay. That I really, that I really made the commitment to, say, six, seven years ago that I was like, you know what, I'm just not going to, you know, I haven't applied for Iowa since 2011.

And it's just, I just have no interest. I think the last buck I shot out of a tree stand was in Illinois. It was like 163-inch buck with triple-I guards. And then I was like, you know what, that's a good way to go out. I'm just going to focus on going out west. And it's just too many, too many, I mean, even an easy to draw a tag out west is just, gets me, my blood going way more than the thought of sitting in a tree stand or, you know, ground blind in the Midwest. Sure, sure. And so did you, have you ever hunted like that unit one, two, some of that country that's got just some amazing mule deer genetics as well as a few big whitetails? But any of those, you know, did you ever end up drawing that mule deer stamp or any of that there in Kansas? No, I have not drawn a one or two. Actually, I take that back. I think the first year we drew a two, it would be 217.

But no, I've stayed mostly in the southwest to southwest central. Okay. And have you ended up, you know, hunting some big deer in some of that country as well? Oh, yeah, in Kansas? You bet. I've gotten, I think my biggest whitetail there is mid-180s, and I've only drawn the mule deer stamp the last two years. And it literally has been the worst two years for, you know, spotting big mule deer there the entire time I've been there. I mean, I think the first five or six years I hunted Kansas, I mean, had I had a mule deer stamp, I mean, I would have killed 200-inch-plus bucks every year, or at least I had an opportunity. I would have, you know, been hunting them. Yeah. Whereas the last two years I've killed the two biggest mule deer that I've found.

And, you know, last year's was like mid-180s, and this year it was just a big, wide three-point, big, old, gnarly, mature buck that wouldn't score with a darn. But, you know, I've seen some mature, or some mature, I've seen some mule deer that had like a non-typical gene in that area. And I still see them the last couple years, but they're young. Yeah. And, but, it's kind of hope I keep drawing that tag. It's tough. I know it's tough. It's tough in Kansas. I've spent a little time in there. My dad had, you know, we hunted aggressive in there. My dad had a tag years ago and was working with a guy and ended up, you know, he ended up killing a 220 buck. But it was an interesting deal. Like, they're bedded out in the Milo, and, of course, we take lawn chairs out there and 30-mile-an-hour wind, and we get close, and then we just sit and chill in hot weather and wait for him to stand up.

Anyway, long story short, he ended up killing it. But I know the frustrating part, you know, in a lot of that is having those right-of-ways, the roads around every 640 where guys can, they know what each other has on their properties. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, yeah. The biggest advantage where I'm hunting at is there's just not many people hunting the archery. So, the gun season is crazy, and I've discovered right away the first year, the Kansas locals don't hunt if they can't hunt from the road.

It's silly. You just watch them drive around the block over and over and over until something runs out in front of them. Yeah. I, and that's a big part of the reason why I only did a couple years there before. I was like, you know what, we've got to switch this up to archery, and it's been great. I mean, there's way less pressure. Permission is, you know, it's much easier to gain permission and just much less hunters. Yeah, you bet. But that Milo, this year, the Milo was, all the crops were still in. It was too wet to harvest, and I know there was a ton of deer that I just didn't see. Yeah. They're living out there. They're living out in it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yep. It's just like the cornfield in the Midwest when it's still standing. They don't have to leave. Yeah. So. That's kind of crazy. Yeah. It was a different experience.

We hunted in that muzzleloader season in September, and, man, they were vulnerable. There was no pressure. They were still in their summer pattern. It was hot, but that keeps them in a summer pattern. And so, it was kind of interesting. It was awesome, actually. But you kind of, you got to be really engaged. Like anything, you got to be really engaged with, or else rely on somebody that's engaged to really do well. And it does seem like the last couple of years, I've seen very few big deer. It feels like everything that's coming on semi-strong gets smoked, and, you know, before they truly mature. I don't know. You probably saw the same thing, it sounds like. Yeah. I'm hoping this next year will be a little better. With the fact that the crops were in throughout most of the archery, the early archery, and also the fact that they got just tons of moisture this summer and fall.

It didn't do anything for antler growth this year, but the ground is more saturated right now than I've ever seen it down there. So, hopefully next year will be off the charts for food, and, yeah. Well, that's the way this whole west has been, you know, and we can dive into some of the hunts you went on this year, if you'd like. But, you know, it feels like this whole west, and I hunted, you know, I hunted Idaho General, and it was, you know, it was tough to say the least. That winter 16, 17 was brutal, and people are seeing that. I don't think it was just me. I mean, people are seeing good bucks were, you know, big bucks were like 180, where, you know, in past years you could find good deer, real good deer. And same thing with Wyoming. You know, Colorado was off. New Mexico, obviously, all their regular hunts that have come and gone have been off.

This hunt that you and I will be on, it's, you know, well, my kid drew it, but anyway, and you drew it. But, I mean, you know, you are getting some of that migration, and you'll get some of these Colorado bucks that may, or even off the utes, or off the hickory, or whatever. You're going to, you know, it's a little bit different. But the standard New Mexico hunts were tough, with tough antler growth. Same thing with Arizona, Nevada, Utah. Just tough year. Yeah. What you kind of experienced overall? Yeah, absolutely. I actually drew Nevada this year, an archery deer tag, and went out about 10 days early before the archery started. And I backpacked into two different areas of the unit, both wilderness areas. Didn't see any people. And I didn't see a single buck that I'd want to shoot. And, I mean, I think I saw three bucks that were over three and a half years old. Yeah.

And I saw hundreds of sheep, dozens of big bulls, elk, and like zero deer that I would even put past, you know. They're not even fully mature. Well, and I think you and I texted about that a little bit. And you were saying, hey, you know, am I dumb to, and I'm like, it's a tough year. It was a tough year out there. Yeah. I ended up turning it in right before the season started, and I'm glad I did. It was, I haven't really heard many good things from anybody that was in there. And it gave me a little bit more time to find the buck that I did not find it in Colorado. So, it all worked out. So, talk to us a little bit about the Colorado hunt. Yeah. So, that's a new unit for me. I had never hunted that before. You know, it seems like more and more people are doing the backpack style hunts now. And especially the early above timberline type hunts, the high archery hunts are just becoming

so popular. And the unit I used to hunt, it went from, you know, I've been drawing it with zero points for I don't know how many years. And this year, or last year, I think I barely squeaked in looking at the odds. And then this year, I just knew that it was basically, I had just about a zero chance. So, I jumped to a new unit. And, you know, a lot less demand for the unit. And I could tell why. I mean, I found a lot less, you know, target bucks. But I did have enough time in there. I found a couple good ones. And in one, the one I ended up getting, he was spending time between two different units. And basically, you know, every time I'd find him, he'd be on the opposite side. So, the first time I found him, he was on, you know, one side. Then the next time I go, he's on the other. And, of course, when the season started, he was on the wrong side.

It took him four days to get bumped over to my side. And then I was able to sneak in and get an arrow through him. But it didn't, it, I still don't, you know, if I had my choice of going back to my old unit, I probably would just because it was, it seemed more target rich. And, but, you know, I don't, you know, I wouldn't doubt it for the next couple years. I can't draw this new unit I just hunted. And then I'll probably have to switch again. And it's whatever. It's fun to try new units as long as they have time to search them out, you know, scout them out a little bit beforehand. Yeah. You know, and I'm lucky there that I can do that. I feel bad for the guys that only get a week off every year. And they got to, they got to just go in there blind without any scouting because. Yeah. It's critical. Scouting. It is. It's one of the most important things for sure. Yeah. Well, that's awesome.

Even though you probably ended up with the same buck, same caliber buck that you would have on your regular unit. Well, you know, you kind of made it happen. But like you said, the infamous train horn. Yeah. I can feel, the train's close enough I can feel the truck vibrating, but I still can't see them. It's snowing that hard. That's hilarious. Well, we can hear your windshield wipers going, so I know you're in a snowstorm. I know you're not lying to us there. No, it's pretty ugly. Good stuff. Well, anyway, so, yeah, it's, you know, in that trying new units, that's the one thing I think is key. You know, I've probably been on 20 or, I don't know, 20-some units there in Colorado over the years, and you find the same thing. And that's what's funny about all this is I've got a lot of guys asking, you know, what's the next best unit or what are you seeing for 2019?

And if you base it off 2018, everything sucks. It doesn't matter if it's unit 21 or 44, any of these are the hottest units that everybody is common knowledge, so to speak. Yeah. It was tough in dry, tough years. And I'm talking about the rifle hunts, just not your archery hunt. But then dry, tough years, you know, the rifle hunts will give you 170 or 180-inch deer no matter what unit you're in. And 44 guys are generally not seeing 200-inch deer if the weather's not right. And then, like you're finding, jumping in your archery stuff, same kind of thing. And a lot of your, like you said, jumping from one unit to the other, those, and I'm not and I'm not indicating this is where you were because I actually don't know where you were, but like units like 55 that border 43, that border 54, that border 53, a lot of these deer, some are in the same basic country.

And then, but where they spill off to winter is all different, you know? Mm-hmm. And so you can hunt those kind of genetics and you can hunt, you know, 43 genetics on the 55 side up high or whatever. That's what's kind of cool about some of these archery hunts is you can, you know, a lot of those summer ranges are shared by a lot of different bucks, you know, winter in different country. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. I guess I'll find out what the, how easily I squeaked a tag this year and if it looks like I can do it again next year, I'll probably try it again. I'd say just change it up. Let's hit a different unit every year. We were going to do a pot here in the office and just kind of throw a bunch of new stuff and then everybody draw and then do a kind of a reality show on, you know, have people see how people do and have a little camera and follow each guy around and what goes into

starting a, you know, what's the process of starting to learn a new unit and then what the end results were. But anyway, we want to incorporate you in that and I'm going to make sure you draw the toughest, worst, most brutal hunt. You're right. Yeah. Just put me down in the desert where I got to drink cow piss. I'll be super happy. Speaking of that, do you prefer to, I mean, do you hunt the desert country as much or mostly high country, early archery stuff or what defines you? You know, well, I had the option this year, you know, where I was at in Nevada this year, had some high and some low stuff and I probably in hindsight would have been better off looking down low because I think there was more water down there. But I didn't. I went up high kind of where I feel comfortable and that, you know, that hurt me. I didn't find anything. Um, I've hunted some low desert stuff in Southern Utah.

Um, and that's where I get the drinking the cow piss reference for. Um, so you've done it. You've done it. I had to push cows out of the water hole to go to grab water to filter, like literally push a moo cow. Like my hands on her butt, like get out of here. And luckily though, I, I, I, I still filtered water, you know, to drink, but someone did pack in some, some water for me and I, and I was super thankful for that, but, but that didn't stop them from, uh, rolling, you know, rolling on my tent, the cows, him pissing and crapping all over it too. So, um, so I know I, uh, I should probably be going back to that unit this year in Utah to try to, it's just a general unit and try to try to redeem myself. Cause that, that hunt didn't, uh, I didn't, I didn't end up connecting on that. So did you do that this year? Did you do that 2018? No, that was, uh, 2017. Oh, okay.

And, uh, and I only gave it four or five days cause I wanted to get to Colorado, um, to, uh, to scout a couple more days before, uh, the hunt opened there. But so no, I'll give it a shot again. And, you know, I've hunted Arizona. Um, but you know, where I hunted was, uh, was more green than, than it was desert. So, and that was, that was probably my most frustrating hunt that I've ever had. Um, just because it was, uh, it was a, it was an early archery hunt and it was a lot tougher than I expected. I saw bigger bucks and then I've, I saw the biggest typical and the biggest non-typical I've ever seen in my life on that, you know, in that two week period. And, uh, I, I, you know, getting close to him was, was, was really tough. And I, you know, I was 50 yards from the non, the non-typical and, you know, triple drop tines. Um, I can still see them clear as day in my head.

And I've been, I've been watching the pictures since this hunt for the last two years, just waiting for someone to kill him. Um, but I've yet to see that anybody post a picture of him. I put him at probably two 20, two 30 and I had him at 50 yards, but we both, you know, he saw me, he knew I was there, he was bedded. And as soon as I moved out to get, you know, a clear shot, he was, he stood up, just turned around, walked away. And I hunted him five more days and I never saw another deer in that, in that area, let alone in him. Um, and, uh, the typical, I saw that same hunt was ridiculous, but just, it was, uh, it was too thick to, to really spot and stalk. And the only, I was finding them basically still hunting. And, and it was, it was just, it was so frustrating because I would find them. I mean, if it was a rifle hunt, they're gone, they're done.

But, uh, it was just too thick to, to get an arrow through. Um, but can't wait to get back. So are you, uh, yeah. So how long, I mean, when are you planning on doing that hunt again? Uh, it looks like I'm probably, I could probably drive every four or five years, six years. Okay. So, you know, I've, you know, I've done the loyalty point and all that stuff or the, uh, hunters ed point in Arizona. So I'll be, I'll do it as soon as I can that, or I'll hold out for maybe the easier to draw the first rifle hunt, which I know is a pain in the butt too. But in my mind, I'm thinking, you know, if I, if I could just do the same thing I did during the archery. Yeah. Well, a lot of times those deer don't move. A lot of times those deer haven't moved by the first, you know, and everybody wants them to be on the winter range.

Cause if they're like you said, they're glassable, they're, you know, versus stocking them in thick pines, you know, I've thought about that actually. And it just had them like I did in that first archery, but this time have a little bit more reach. Yeah. Yep. Make it happen. So, and so do you. You know, kind of moving into that, do you muzzle a rifle, archery, anything goes, uh, obviously prefer maybe that early high country stuff with scouting and everything. Those deer will be in the same places, but you know, and so comes into play. You know, I don't, I don't, you know, if, if I had to pick between the early high country, uh, archery hunt and the late, later season rut hunt in Kansas, it'd be tough. Cause both are so fun, but they're so far away from each other. You know, I started off the season backpack hunting for, for four or five weeks straight,

literally like not going home the entire time. And then I'm easily moved to a couple of car camp type hunts. And then I go home for a little while for a couple of weeks to process deer. And then I come back out to the lab of luxury in Kansas where I actually have a, a garage or a house to sleep in. I get to have like a, uh, you know, a warm meal every day. And it's, so it's the quality of the game is probably not the same, but it's, it's, it's a fun hunt. I think that as far as weapons go, you know, I mean, I killed my first deer when I was 12 and in every year in Michigan, I was filling both my archery and my, my rifle tag. And I, so it's not like I have a, you know, I didn't grow up with a preference over either. It just developed into how can I, okay, I want to hunt here. Which tag do I need to have to get that hunt sooner?

And that's, and that's basically the way I look at it is I want to, I want to hunt good deer and, uh, what's the best opportunity to get it. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Or to get the tag, the best odds. Yeah. Um, and I've definitely been guilty of applying for too many easy to draw tags. This year was a perfect example. I mean, I, you guys always joke around like you can't draw too many tags. Don't worry about it. Apply, apply, whatever. But I did it this year and you know, I, I had too many tags and I was gone from home for, I mean, I literally slept in a tent for three months straight without going home. And, uh, couple of questions. Are you married? And then if you are, are you still married? Or if you were, when did that end? I've got a lovely lady that I've been with for a while, long enough that I need to make her, my wife and, uh, and I, and I do love her like crazy.

And, and, uh, that's probably don't hope she doesn't listen to this, but it's good. Probably have hopefully happen soon. But, um, she was still there when I got Valentine's day is coming up. Well, you know, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's seven years, she's got half your crap anyway. So at least, at least here. So no, it's, it's just been a couple of years, but I, uh, you got five years before she, before she owns everything. I don't think she's going to be around another year if I don't. Okay. Yeah. She definitely does not like me being gone that long and it's, you know, and I, I get it. I didn't, I didn't like being gone that long either. So I think, uh, well, the good thing is she likes you. So, you know, if she wanted you to be gone, you might, might be concerned. So, yeah, well, uh, well, that's true. Yeah. Well, that's awesome. Yeah.

It's just, I'm the same way as basically, uh, whatever the best chance is to, you know, mostly whatever the best chance is to kill these big deer and, and scouting wise, I had archery tags and, and like you, I don't like to, some of these, some of this stuff is, is an ongoing battle with specific deer and named deer. And so, you know, I'm not talking about them too much yet, but they're, you know, it's a, it's a challenge one way or another, but, but the end is, is so awesome. And some, and sometimes I'm finding, and you're probably finding this, um, maybe, maybe these deer are only killable with a bow because you don't know where they went or, or you don't know where they go, um, or whatever. And so that's, that's your archery. You know what I mean? That's your archery hunt for the year or two years or three years hunting specific deer

all the while you're willing to kill some of these peripheral deer or whatever, you know? Yeah, I, I've, uh, you know, I, I haven't really been fortunate enough to spend a lot of time in the same units that I archery hunt the early season. I haven't been able to be there later in the season to, to see if those deer are there or not. I've toyed around with the idea in Colorado of, of doing a, you know, a second rifle just, uh, just to try it. Um, cause there's several units that I can, they're easier. Yeah. And they're easier to draw than some of the archery tags sometimes, but I don't, uh, you know, I don't know. No, I get, uh, I got, uh, I probably need to talk to somebody like you before I do pull the trigger on something like that because I, yeah, I don't want to, I don't want to not hunt the archery if it's not, if it doesn't get to mean an opportunity. So. Right. Right.

Well, uh, so six years isn't long. Like how did you, who, who, who taught you? Did you self-taught? And then, and what have you learned and how have your tactics changed from year one to year six? I mean, kind of give me that a little bit. Well, I think, you know, I grew up in the woods. I mean, I grew up hunting. My dad is super diehard hunter is just a different, different fashion. Right. So it's, it's, I, I think I've always been one of the guys that I have, when, when I get an opportunity, I usually can make it happen. I don't, you know, it's, I got the, I guess I'd say the killer instinct. I just had to transition to wide open, uh, territory. And, and I grew up a ski, an Alpine ski racer and ski coat, eventually a coach. And the mountains were always just my, I loved going out west of the mountains. And it wasn't, I don't know why it wasn't until later, you know, that I figured out I

should be out here hunting as well. But I mean, I, I feel at home in the mountains. I feel at home. Um, stalking animals, uh, I just, just didn't, uh, just didn't pull the trigger on doing it for a long time. So I think that that was, it was a natural progression for me. And I, and I, I, I don't even want to say what kind of like what my success rate is when, once I find something that I want to kill, it's, you know, I don't want to jinx, but jinx myself. But, uh, I definitely spent too much time the first few years walking around instead of sitting down and, and, and using my glass. So I, I'll credit Rock Slide a lot. The, the, one of the websites that I, that I write for a lot, rockslide.com was great for me to learn, uh, without having a mentor, without having someone to be like, Hey, what do I do when this happens?

Cause you can find out all about gear there and you can find a lot about tactics. Um, maybe not for killing giant bucks, but for at least staying alive in the mountains and, uh, and what you don't want to do, you know, with gear and so on. Um, so, but I definitely, I, I, I bumped lots of deer. I, you know, I, I'm looking back now at a hunt like that, Arizona hunt. Um, I mean, you, you think about big bucks that you screwed up on your whole life, I guess, looking back, but you know, I, I'm sure there are things I could have done differently. And, uh, I definitely spend way more time behind my glass now, way, way less time moving around. Um, and, uh, you know, there was, there was, and I've killed, I've killed mature bucks, still hunting with a bow in the mountains and, and in the Midwest. Uh, but it's, you, you bump a lot more than you, than you, than you, than you get a chance at.

And if you're trying to kill one particular buck, um, which, you know, I, I try to, I try to find the biggest buck in the area and, and focus on him. And, and it's a lot harder to do that when you're just looking for one. So what do you like, what's your benchmark? I mean, are you looking for one 80 plus deer or where is it depending on the weapon? It depending on the, on the unit? I mean, what's your benchmark? When do you, when do you hone in on this deer versus look for a bigger deer? When is big enough, big enough? Boy, that's that, I think it does depend on where I'm at. Uh, I mean, my biggest Michigan bucks, only 135 inches. Um, he's a monster for my County. Uh, that's, I mean, there's, there's not many, uh, Kill 135 every year if you could. Oh, in Michigan, you bet. Yeah. Uh, you know, where I hunt in Colorado in the early season, I'm trying to stay above one 80.

Um, the, uh, I think that, you know, I see a mature buck and, and, and a guy that I hunted with long, long ago. And I don't, most of my hunts are solo nowadays, but he, he basically told me, he's like, you just, if it's not already a buck that you're chasing, you'll either know it instantly or not. If there's any question in your mind, when you see that buck and you have to sit there and hem and haw about it, you're probably going to be disappointed. Yeah. Yeah. The odds are not in your favor of being walking up there and be like, Oh yeah, he is. He is everything that I thought he was. And he's, um, but so that, that's just something that I think of, you know, when I see a buck, if it doesn't trip my trigger right away and, uh, you know, like my Kansas buck this year, he doesn't score with a darn, but he's 30 inches wide and he's got thick bladed tines and he

was old and he was the best buck I saw. And I was like, you know what? That's, uh, let's do it. And, uh, I did. Yep. And that's, so it's just a matter of if, if, if, if it trusts my trigger, if it's mature, a lot like you, a lot of deer have died in my hands because they had really cool brow tines. Yeah. Um, I love, I love extra points. Oh, if there's 14 eye guards, there's not enough. You know, pipe, no extra kickers. Yeah. Yeah. And pipe mass and big, just, it's just, it's just amazing. I mean, and, and I, and I used to like the, you know, wide deer and I, of course I like wide deer. I mean, I like all of, but, uh, there's nothing like mass and eye guards for me. I just, I don't know. I don't know why, but that's probably my number. Number one too. Yeah. Mass. Yeah. What are, uh, what are some of your goals or bucket list items? Um, I mean, you know, mule deer wise too.

I mean, if you got, you know, any size wise or what do you, you know, what would be the ultimate for you to kill? I'm a lot about the experience too. I mean, I, yeah, but I, I've never had a, I've never had a ridiculously good tag of, of any nature. Um, the best tag I've ever had. I drew a once in a lifetime sheep or a moose tag last year in Idaho. And it's arguably one of the worst tons in Idaho for moose. And I busted to find one mature bull the entire season. And, uh, it wasn't nearly the whole season, but I mean, uh, I mean, I've never spent, well, this, this year would have, that seven points I would have burned in Nevada would have been the most I've ever burned on a deer tag. I've never, I'm my, my philosophy, philosophy has always been just hunt more. And, uh, so I've, I've yet to ever draw that just ridiculously good tag.

Um, so if there's one thing that I really just want to do, that's probably it. It's just, I want to, I want to have a hunt where there's low pressure and just a good chance of something to find something good. Great. Great. Big, big old mature bucks. Yeah. But I'm pretty impatient too. I'm probably going to apply for that lower tag. And I don't blame you. And I'm doing, I'm doing a lot what you're doing, but I, and I have to, I have, I drew too many tags and I draw too many tags regular. And I guess when we talk about drawing too many tags, it's a lot of, a lot of it's coming from the trophy perspective. Guys are applying for one to 5% type drawing odds and they're scared to do, you know, apply for more than two or three of those thinking they're going to draw two or three. And, and you will, if you, if you apply for something easy to draw and you do it too many

times, you're going to have too many tags. But, um, you know, I kind of developed that strategy of, I always have tags in my pocket and, and, uh, want to go do, you know, like general Utah, general Idaho. Um, you know, some of these that are just a little bit easier. I know I've got, I could, you could make something happen if you, if worst case scenario, you don't have any tags. Um, you know, then you could fall back on those and make something happen. And then, and then kind of save points in, in a few key places. You just, you kind of use that as your, you know, maybe your once in a lifetime or two or three times in a lifetime, you know, type tag and, and hopefully make it happen somehow. So. Yeah. No, that's, that's, that's, you know, this year, I, I think I drew three tags. I had a, well, the lowest percentage was, which was for sure this New Mexico, uh, late archery hunt, but.

That's a tough tag to draw. I would say this is, you know, better than maybe that Nevada tag, you know, even though that New Mexico doesn't have points percentage wise, that is extremely tough to draw. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, I think I don't know. I'll probably still end up applying for, you know, and that's, that's, that's been my MO is I just look at what can I draw. And, and that's why I applied for that moose tag last year. That's why I applied for the deer hunt that I went for in Nevada this year. I knew I'd draw it with that many points. And I just, I just want to hunt and, but that's probably the, that's probably the reason that I, I still haven't, uh, been patient enough to wait to draw one of those great tags. Yeah. I haven't given enough years. Yeah. What about this moose? I didn't, I need to go check out your social media, but like it turned out all right.

Like, yeah, no, it was, it was, uh, I mean, I think there was seven tags in the unit, uh, last year, only two of us were successful. So, I mean, that tells you how on the hunt was, uh, I saw, I think five, five or six moose the entire nine or 10 days I was there. Luckily there was, uh, we were getting rain or just a little skiff of snow every day. And I was able to basically drive roads. So I found a track and get on a track and just walk them, walk them, walk them down. Wow. And, uh, I figured out where they were kind of, I, the only ones I ever tracked down were just little dink yearling. I mean, like, I mean, literally I had racks, I had my hands or they were just cow giant cows. Uh, and, but I found kind of where they were all the center area, I guess you want to say where they were crisscrossing through. And I, I sat up in there and called and, um, a friend of mine kept bugging me.

He's like, just sit down and call for two days and you're going to, something will come in. And I hadn't, I hadn't sat there for a half hour and I had, had some come in and, but they did come in right downwind. And then I ended up, you know, making like a giant loop and, uh, I, I had split him from his cow. They both came in together and I, and I ended up finding them again. And, uh, he was 42 inches wide and, uh, you know, wouldn't score with a darn, doesn't have much for fronts, but he was thick and mature. And, uh, you know, I, when I checked him in, they were, you know, CO told me, hadn't seen anything bigger than, you know, all year. So that's awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Same tactics. So basically saying, I mean, you gotta be able to be versatile and track when you need to, or call when you need to, or glass when you need to.

I mean, I think that's part of the, even with deer or elk or anything is being able to be versatile and change up the plan. You know? Oh, absolutely. No, that's, I've, yeah, there's, there's been a lot of times that I figured that, you know, I figured out a deer is just living too close to, to thick cover for me, but to, you know, I'm not going to see him bed. It's just, it's, he's not going to give me a chance. And basically the only chance is to, to be there first thing in the morning or last thing at night and be there tight. And you're risking, risking swirling winds. You're risking, you know, it's, you just got to kind of roll the dice sometimes. Yeah. So tell me now we're talking about a little bit on spot and stock again, just what are some of the things you've learned? Like what are the tactics?

What are the do's and don'ts or things that you found that help you be more successful, making a successful stock? Well, I think one of the things I don't hear anybody else talking about, uh, and I'm, they almost, I hear him talking about kind of the opposite of the way I approach it is the wind. Um, and it's, and it depends, you know, if you're in, if you're in real steep mountains or big canyon area, this doesn't work. But if you're in Eastern Montana, if you're in Kansas where it's a little bit flatter, more consistent winds, certain areas of Wyoming where there's, you're, you're getting more of a directional wind or at least a consistent, uh, uh, you know, uh, wind with, with, with the thermals. I don't, once I got embedded, I don't, I don't put the wind in my favor. I put it almost in their favor. And I, I love to come in from a quartering behind them wind.

So basically the wind's blowing 25, 30 degrees off from them. And if it, if it changed a little bit, I'm screwed. But what happens if they're alone usually is, uh, they're, they're facing downwind at their weak spot and they don't, uh, they don't see me coming. Uh, and it's, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't blow up, I don't blow up nearly as many bucks doing that versus if I, if I just get downwind of them and come straight at them from downwind or always come from, you know, they're just sitting there chewing the cud watching you. I mean, that's all they've got to do. And they, they pick you out. And yeah, and it's just, and sometimes it doesn't really matter because you know, where I hunt in Colorado or most of the, most of the spot times it's, there's so much terrain changes. You can use most of that.

And it's not a big deal, but like in Kansas, sometimes I'm, I'm exposed for hundreds of yards and I've basically just got a belly crawl in or, or stay low. And, you know, if you're trying to do that in the direction he's looking, it's, you're not going to pull it off very often. Yeah. Yeah. So it's. Yeah. And then, um, do you, what about decoys? What do you, I mean, there are certain spots I've found decoys work fantastic. And I think, I think what I've came down, what I've, what I've came down to, uh, what I think makes it work or not work is the buck to doe ratio. If, if, if they're used to having to fight for breeding rights, it works fantastic. So Kansas white tail and mule deer, it works great. I had good luck, uh, when I was hunting in the Midwest and Iowa in certain counties of Illinois, you know, using, uh, decoys where, you know, mature buck sees a decoy that pops

up in his home turf. And he is pissed because he has to fight for every one of his, you know, every one of his does. Whereas, you know, certain other areas where you've got a horrible buck to doe ratio, uh, there's plenty of does to go around and they just, they'll fight if they have to, but in open areas too, it's, you know, you, you take a look, you take an equal buck to doe ratio in Kansas versus say Montana, uh, where it's just a little bit rollier terrain and the, you know, breaky terrain in Montana. They don't, they don't get a chance when they're walking 400 yards apart from each other a lot of times to see each other. Whereas in Kansas, they're a couple of hundred yards away from each other. They see each other. It's on there. That's why I think there's so many more broken tines. Um, they, they fight more.

So maybe, you know, I think decoys in general are going to work better in areas where you have a higher, uh, buck to doe ratio. And, uh, the more they fight, the more they're going to, you know, if you, if you're in an area that always has broken up tines on your bucks, it's, it's so much fun. Um, both the Kansas mule deer that I've got last two years came with the decoy and it is so cool. I mean, are you just grunting? Are you doing anything or just, just chilling out there? Just chilling. Nope. Nothing. Uh, get close and just, and show it to them. And a buck decoy, buck decoy for the mule deer. I've been using the, uh, heads up decoy, the, the doe and for the white tails, it's the opposite. Like, so with the mule deer, the doe seems to work better. And with the white tails, the buck seems to work better.

Um, my biggest Kansas buck, uh, 184, five inches, uh, I had been, I think it'd been three years ago. I, uh, I spotted him. He went into a little crick bottom. I snuck down to it, but I couldn't tell if he went up, up the crick bottom or down the crick bottom, or if he was still there. So I got to that point. And just as I got up there, I, I saw, I could see two other mature bucks off the distance. One of them, which I thought was him. He was, he was another one 70 plus white tail. And I crashed my rail antlers as hard as I could together. And he turned around and looked at me like, and he just stood there. He just looked at it. I mean, like, I'm not, I'm not coming up, going back there. Cause he was walking away. And meanwhile, uh, the other there, so I've got two mature bucks watching me as I'm, as I'm on this little corner of tumbleweeds rattling, flashing the decoy at them and neither

of them will move. And, uh, something just told me to turn around. And that buck that I'd seen going to the crick bottom, he was there the entire time, a hundred yards away. And he was coming up out of that crick bottom. I knowing I can presume is that they were, they'd already fought that night and he had already scared them off. And basically he was coming out to say, you want some more? And he had already seen, he'd already seen that heads up decoy on my bow. His head was down and he was coming in like a bull moose and ruts just swaying back and forth. And, uh, I watched him from, from 80 yards away, come all the way to 20 yards. He never even picked up his head or looked at me again. I, I pivoted around, turned around cause he was coming from right behind me. And, uh, I mean, I'd hate to think of, and he went, he didn't make any sound.

He was just coming through a wheat field, a freshly planted wheat field. I mean, he would have, could have took the bow right out of my hands with that decoy on it, uh, had I not turned around, but it was a point blank shot. Um, that they just, in areas where they fight a lot, those decoys are so much fun. Well, I, and, and I'm bad that I get buck fever. If I, if I can just kill them, I can, I, and then I, then I shake after, but if I'm watching them come like from 80 to 20 or to point blank, I'm, I'm freaked out. I would, I would be shaken and just teeth would be chattering. Cause it's just the anticipation that's going to happen. It's obvious it's going to happen. He's stupid. And I don't know. Is that, did it, did it come across you that way? Or you just, you just, no, I just black out. I just black out and then I wake up and they're dead.

Oh man. I've had, I've had times where I've messed up because I think elk have gotten me more that way than deer have, uh, just cause I probably grew up in the Midwest. And, uh, but no, I, when it's, when I know the opportunity is coming on the buck, it's Well, if you have experiences like that, I don't know how you quit hunting whitetail. Really. I mean, that's, that's the ultimate having a deer do that, come in like that. That's just gotta be the ultimate. Well, that's with that either species tag in Kansas, you know, you kind of enter the season thinking, okay, what my goal is, is either a boot or whitetail or, or yeah, it's what, what am I going to find? And this year I didn't see a, uh, a shooter, what I would call a whitetail that I'd shoot, you know, something that's over 170 until the last day. And I was actually pheasant hunting and, uh, and he was, as I, as I was driving back to

the ranch to pack up, he ran across the road, but that was the only one I saw. It was, it was tough. Like I said, the crops were all in and hopefully, hopefully it means someone will make it through. That's crazy. So did you find like in Kansas, do you feel like that there was, it was tough whitetail and mule deer wise to find trophy bucks, whether it be antler growth or age or whatever, both of them suffered? Absolutely. It's, I mean, it's, it's just, I mean, this is the first year they've had good moisture. I mean, this rain that they just got this summer is probably the first year that they're, it's going to knock them out of being a drought, you know, a drought state. Yeah. Um, you know, add to the fact that the crops are still up. I think that, I think that, uh, a lot of guys are, we're struggling this year to, to find them.

Um, are you, uh, are you hunting the walk-in stuff or mostly private or how are you? I have hunted them. I've got, I've got, I've killed bucks, uh, big mature bucks on, on the walk-ins there. Like I said before, a lot of guys in Kansas and I'm sure that there's, there's areas and there's some bow hunters. I know some bow hunters that are in Kansas that are pretty diehard guys that get after it. But a lot of the guys in Kansas, uh, that rifle on hand some of the ball and don't, you know, if that walk-in units, uh, a strip, it's a half mile wide, but two miles deep and there's no road access to the backside. I doubt there's been too many people to the backside of it. And that's those, those kinds of spots. I have, it's amazing what you find just by walking a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Not physical, not even like color, not even close to like Colorado, but just, just take some kind of effort.

Just take some effort. Yeah. It's flat and it doesn't look like much either too. That's another thing too, you know, from the road, you're glassing it, you're thinking, man, you get back there, you look at Google earth at it and it's like, holy crap, there's three different draws in there and you go back there and there's, there's brush and, and, uh, you know, there's, there's tumbleweed, there's tumbleweed piles that are 10 foot high and they almost have tunnels underneath them that you're, you're bedding. Yeah. Um, so it's, yeah. You just got to put in the effort. Speaking of Google earth, how much are you using that versus, you know, I mean, and I use it a little bit, but there's some guys that like to use it a lot, but I'm not sure that I'm not seeing them be super successful with it as much as I think, you know, it's good to use it.

But then there's something about seeing it with your own eyes and, you know, you got to, you have a feel when you see something, you just, there's, you can see whether you're seeing the feed or you're seeing the train or like you're saying with some of those, Kansas draws and different things. But I mean, for me, I'm not, I'm not looking at Google earth and saying, I'm going to find my next giant right there. I'm looking at Google earth to how to get into stuff or, or, uh, supplement what I've seen. Um, yeah. Is that how you're using it? Yeah. I, I mean, I, I, I listened to certain guys talk about, you know, maybe more so with elk, but they're like, listen, you know, you, you look for this, this, and this, and this is how I find my spots and I mark them and then I go check them out. It's like, I, I'm looking for glass and knobs. How can I get to that spot?

The easiest, you know, how do I not cliff myself out? And, um, I use it for that probably more than anything. I don't really, you know, there I'm, yeah. In spots like Kansas where you can't see or flatter spots like the breaks, you can't see all the little nooks and crannies from, from, you know, and there are no glassy knobs. There are no great high spots. Um, and you end up, you find yourself climbing up oil wells and, and, uh, farmers barns more than you do than, than climbing up on top of a big hill. Uh, I think that it can be pretty useful then for seeing little hidden draws, but, um, yeah, I basically, you know, I'll use it more from like this time of the year until the application season is done. And then again, once I, once I draw, whatever I draw, maybe if that's somewhere I haven't been before, I'll, I'll really locate all the trailheads, uh, glassy knobs, possible

camping spots. But once I get in there, it's, everything always changes. You know, it seems like, you know, where you think you'll find water, you don't find water. And then you gotta, you know, and next thing you know, you glass something up in a spot you thought, well, I wasn't expecting to go over there, but you go over there and then that's where everything's at. You know, I have, it's what, everything always changes once you get boots on the ground. Yeah, everything does. Yep. I found the same stuff. What, um, what's your, some of your most memorable stuff, like, like your most memorable deer or something that really stands out as in your mind, one of the best experiences you've had. Boy, well, this, this year's deer was pretty good, but, uh, I killed a Colorado buck a couple of years ago that was right at that 200 inch mark. And, uh, I found them.

I drew a pretty good Wyoming tag that year as well. Regardless, I didn't get back to Colorado from my scouting trip in Wyoming until I only had a couple of days before the season to scout. And that's what it was. And then went into the area, uh, that I had done good before with really, I hadn't, I mean, I'd found a couple of 180 type bucks and, but nothing, nothing giant. And the night before the season or two nights before the season, um, just found him laying. And I mean, in a, in a, in a spot, you don't want to find him laying because he's visible for everybody to see. And that night in the next, I watched him and I really thought for sure. I'm like, I don't, I've gotten to myself opening tomorrow morning. I'm, I'm on them. And that last night, that last evening before the opener, I turn around and there are two guys glassing them four yards behind me on the same Ridge.

And, uh, your heart sinks and you're like, Oh crap, you know, and, uh, but I wasn't camp too far away. And so at first light, the next, the next morning, I'm up and, uh, just hoping I found him right away. He was working his way down to get, get a drink. Yeah. I was presuming before he'd turn me back around and go back up and in bed in the same spot he was at. And, uh, those guys were working their way, walking right up the center of the basin. And, uh, I don't, I don't think they had found him. I don't know what, maybe they were trying to work up to where he had been yesterday, but they hadn't spent the time to locate him to figure out whatever, but they bloom around the corner and, uh, all the rest of his bucks. There was probably five or six, seven of them. I don't remember now. Um, but for me, it was a matter of, you know, they ran around the corner. It's just, and it's big country.

Well, those guys plopped their butt down in the willows, literally like made a little ground blind where he had fed out that, that the night before him, like sat there and thinking, well, I don't, I mean, and they were, they were whatever, they looked like they were wearing just black coveralls. I mean, they, they stuck out like a sore thumb. I'm thinking about anything. If he does, if he does come back, it's over. So I actually hiked down a big Canyon and up the other side, uh, probably about, it's gotta be at least two miles, two and a half miles to be able to glass back over the top of them and around the kind of the corner where that bucket went. And by about four o'clock, three 34 o'clock in the afternoon, I'd, I'd picked him up and he'd only went a few hundred yards around the corner and embedded down.

And I knew I only had, you know, so much daylight left and those guys were, boy, they weren't, I don't think they were 500 yards from. And I knew that if, if, if, if dark came and they were still there, the thermals were going to drift right down to him. And at that point he hadn't, he hadn't smelled anybody. He just saw them working up the basin in the morning when the thermals are still going down. So I started, you know, did the normal Colorado afternoon rain shower on me and it got soaked running over there. But I made it to him. Uh, he's the landmarks came up the cliff just popped out right where I thought it would. And, uh, I, I got, I got close and, uh, I waited until the thermal started to switch. And sure enough, uh, those deer started popping up like a, you know, Jack in the box. As soon as that wind started coming down, they smelled those other guys.

And I didn't give him a chance to take off. And as soon as he turned, I, I had narrow on the way and, um, the, uh, he didn't, he didn't make it 30 yards and piled up. And I stood up out of the, out of the willows and those guys were shocked. They're looking at me like, what the hell are you doing? Where did you come from?

And, uh, you're looking at them like, where's your camo? Oh, well, yeah, man. I think there's that old school mossy oak really doesn't do very well. And, uh, it's like a big black blob. Oh, wow. And they watched your deer die or basically, you know, probably came over. I don't know. Yeah. When he, when, you know, I, he jumped up the deer when he jumped and took off the willows and I'm sure they heard him and maybe even saw a flash of him before he went down, but he didn't go far and, you know, I stood up and, uh, I think I shot him actually from my knees and, uh, they, I stood up and did the, you know, I'm a pretty excitable guy. I, I, and I don't have my emotions very well. So I'm like high-fiving myself, you know, high-five myself, no friends type thing. And, you know, my bow's in the air and I'm just like, I can't believe that worked.

And they're just like standing like statues staring at me. And I waved and kind of like threw my hands up, like, you know, like big, but the universal big buck, you know, and they just turned around and walked away.

They read that like you were flipping them off basically. So yeah, you're just happy. You want to share the excitement and they're not so happy. So it wasn't the first time I've been, uh, you know, miss or confused on what I was trying to say. Right. Right. Yeah. Right. So, uh, let's see. I, I know you've done, you've done a little bit of your own European mounts, haven't you? Yeah. I've been doing that for a long time. Uh, especially now that I have to, you know, with all these out of state hunts, uh, yes, not even legal. You can't even, you can't take the brain matter across a bunch of state lines. So I started doing it a few years ago and, um, several of the, the velvet bucks, I've just been skull capping them and then, uh, treating the, treating the velvet, uh, and then having, you know, putting like a, the fake skull on it, but I just don't, I just don't like it

as well as the real thing. And so this year I tried to, uh, I tried to treat the velvet first and, and then do the Euro mount and it all worked except for, I did miss a couple of pockets. Uh, he has my bucks G fours this year were just ridiculous. And, uh, there was a couple of pockets at the base of each one that ended up spoiling on me. So it's, it's, it's kind of a, a bad story, but I did end up having to peel that buck off. Oh, so are you using, are you injecting formaldehyde or how you, what do you mean by treating it? I've been using, I've been using the velvet tan and I've had, I've had great luck with it. Yeah. It, you know, it's within, you know, hopefully the same day, if not the next day, get that thing hung up and start working, you know, upside down and start injecting at the base, uh, and working, working it out to find on the veins.

And, and I've never had any of them even have the slightest stink after they, uh, after that velvet tan dries, you know, I, and I, after injecting it too, I also just paint it on too and let it dry. Yeah. But, you know, you gotta get all that blood out. Cause if you don't, I mean that, and that's what happened. I, you know, by the time I got out of my Colorado elk hunt this year, the guy that was storing my, uh, my freezer with my, with my Colorado deer in it. And he had, you know, some other gear and extra coolers and my European kit and that rack from my Colorado deer. He's like, yeah, I think you might have some issues with that velvet. And I opened up the trailer door and just look, I mean, cargo trailers, like, Whoa, it, it went bad. So, well, you'll, you'll refine it. There's no question. Yeah. Yeah.

And, uh, so yeah, this year I'm, and I was, I, I struggled with, you know, do you, you know, you kill a buck in velvet and if the velvet goes bad, do you just peel it off and let it be, stay in the antlers? Or do you send it to one of those fake velvet places? And, um, I don't know. I did that. I did that. I, I killed a big deer, uh, with a bow and you know, anyway, velvet wise, he was like 220 gross and, and he, he had, he had raked on it a little bit and there was some big, big marring, like strips of velvet gone mostly because he had raked it, but it was still attached. And anyway, I wish, uh, and I stripped it and I shouldn't have. And then when I got it stripped, I mean, it's this white deer that didn't even look like the deer I shot. You know what I mean? Yep. That's what you're looking at. That's exactly where I'm at now. Yeah.

And you're like, it doesn't even look like the deer I shot. So I sent him away and got it put on and it's not, it's not right. And I was just, it's not the same. And, and I would have left him stripped. And really, if I had to do it over again, I wouldn't have stripped him. And, um, cause it's just not even the same deer. I mean, it's, it's the same deer, but it's not, you know? And, and, uh, anyway, it's a bummer. It's a bummer. Cause it's, when I look at him, I don't, it's almost like I don't think of that hunt. I think, man, I wish that velvet was still on there. That's the first thing I think every time I see him, you know? Yeah. And, uh, so anyway, for what it's worth, I don't know what to tell you. I don't know how to tell you to fix it. If that helps you, have at it. Yeah. It might have, you know, might have, when I shot him, he had skidded down through some

rocks, uh, and messed up both sides of the main beams pretty good. And I'm wondering now, you know, when I injected it, if it may be the breathing is at those spots that went bad, they were on the outside just past where it was scuffed up. Maybe that's why, uh, Yeah. It really wasn't able to pump the blood out. The vein, the vein was severed or whatever. Yeah. Didn't get in there. I bet that's it. And yeah. Anyway, I'll probably, I'll probably try one of those fake velvet things, but yeah, I know what you mean. I look at him now and it's like, it's just not the same. It's not the deer like that. It's not the deer I killed. That's not the deer I hunted. But any advice for other Eastern guys that are wanting to do it? I mean, let's be honest. Let's just say you're going to get married and you're not going to hunt much anymore.

So any, might as well just be free with the advice and help the next day. Oh man. It's going to come along.

You know, I've, I've actually, oh, I, I, I, I've had that talk with Jody. It's like, listen, if we do this marriage thing and, and she's talking kids too. I'm like, I need, I need your, your promise that you're going to let me. Yeah. Yeah. I won't be gone for three months straight anymore, but I, maybe it'd just be a bunch of little trips. Yeah. And I, I, cause it's, and she knows it's who I am. And she knew, she knew when we met and it'll, it'll stay that way. But I think that you just need to have it writing pretty much. Yeah.

Has anyone ever done that? Deer, deer hunting rights and prenuptial agreements? I call it, I, it doesn't matter if it's been done. It should be done. I, uh, my wife, I, I, my wife told me she'd give me 90 days and it's never, it's always been more, bless her heart. And I love her forever. Um, because it's, it's, uh, but, uh, but I've also made a living at it and it's what's built our house. It's what's built our life. And so, and, and she's awesome that way and when wouldn't have any other way, it does get hard. Um, yeah. Midstream, you guys, I don't know how old, how old are you just roughly, you know, I am, uh, I'll be 45 this summer. Yeah. So like, um, basically you're setting your ways. She's setting her ways. It's just tough. And you're not, I'm just teasing. I am just teasing. But honestly, it's, uh, it's, it's a tough, it's a tough deal.

I think, um, you know, anyway, it, it is, it's never like when you're, it's never probably going to be like, like it once was, but not that this is probably going to be a better time in your life anyway. And, and you've learned enough now you're going to be able to get the job done quicker. I'm, I'm more efficient. I'm, I'm more efficient than I ever was when I was young and we were newlyweds and, you know, it took more time to, it just took more time. I was learning. And I was learning what deer feed look like. I was learning, you know, I hunted a lot of country. I thought, you know, it was useless and I thought it was awesome and it wasn't. And just because there's long ways between roads doesn't mean there's big deer there. And, and so I had to get an eye for it and, and you'll, you'll make it happen.

And you're probably out there doing stuff because a lot of it, like maybe like Colorado elk, I mean, you know, if it's something you really love fine, but you might cut off the, you might cut the fat, you know what I mean? You might cut the excess hunts that maybe aren't so near and dear to your heart. Yep. Oh, I know what you mean. I think to answer your question though, as far as what I tell Eastern guys, you got to do the research, you know, starting right now, you know, you hire a hunting service like yourselves, talk to people who know and have been there and are willing to help you. Yeah. Um, I think that, you know, I was lucky because I was already leaving home for months at a time and hunting. I, it was just a matter of, okay, I'm going to just go further out West. And so, but I still, but I still use, you know, I still use services to kind of like, Hey, I run

ideas past people. And, and, you know, it's, I, I, you, if you don't have a mentor or if you're not going with buddies and don't be, don't be too proud to ask questions and, you know, try to, you know, there's nothing worse than putting all your eggs in a basket and finding out, you know, you get there and it's, you just blew your whole vacation time. Right. Right. But you also have to have your, you know, make sure you got your, if you're going to backpack hunts, backpack before your hunt, get, do some trips during the summer and make sure all your gear, you know, make sure everything works. Um, don't pull your bow out until, you know, a month before the season shoot all summer. Um, I mean, I, I don't share a lot of the distances that I, that I kill animals because I don't want any, you know, hate, but you know, I, I've, I've, I'm pretty confident with a

bow and I, it's because I practice all year long and I know my equipment. I do all my own tuning. I, I, I know that thing inside and out and it's part of my arm. Yeah. Uh, it's, and I, you are going to be more successful if you don't have to think about, you know, you know, am I going to make this shot? If you have to think that, well, you're already done. It's right. You know, get your equipment dialed in and, and then try to try to get more time off from work and then you, then you think you can get away with. That's right. A hundred percent. There's no substitute for time. And then like you said, time, time with your gear and stuff. So anything else that you want to cover before we wrap it up? Anything that maybe you, you know, that I didn't ask you or we didn't dive into? Yeah, I think covered quite a bit. I mean, I'm, I'm always available for questions if

anybody's got one, but I mean, if they're listening to this, they can just call you and that's what I do anyway. So. Yeah. Well, uh, give it, give us, where can they, where can they find you? Obviously rock slide, um, which is what is R O K slide, right? Yep. R O K S L I D E.com. I do gear reviews for them and, uh, there's all kinds of stuff to learn on there. Uh, I've got a, I've got a Facebook page, but basically I just share stuff to it from Instagram. Um, my Instagram is just Tony underscore treach. It's T R I E T C H. Well, that's awesome. Well, I sure appreciate you taking time with us. I know, you know, you were trying to find good service and find an exit and this and that, and it was last minute, but I just wanted to grab you before you dive into this next hunt, you know, that starts on the first and, uh, wish you the best out there. You're going to,

you're going to do great. So, well, thank you. And, uh, yeah, I hope I can, uh, catch up with you while we're down there and all right, Tony, well, I wish you the best this next year and thanks again for the time and, and being willing to visit about big deer and tips and tactics. And, and, uh, I know there's a lot of guys out there that'll be listening that it'll learn quite a bit from you as well. So thanks for that. And, uh, good luck in this new relationship or, well, I guess not new relationship, but let's call it a new marriage for 2019. The next step, yeah. The next step, the next step. So, well, she has to say yes yet. So Oh, she will. Yeah. And if anybody listened to knows her, don't tell her to listen to this.

Yeah. Just say, honey, this is boring. It's hunting stuff. Anyway. Oh yeah. All right, Tony. Okay. Sounds good, buddy. Appreciate you. Catch up to you later. Yep. Bye. We do want to throw a little shout out to Kent's optics, uh, David and Jeff Harrell, good friends of ours. They have great prices, the best of anywhere I've seen. Anyway, these guys are awesome. They're hunters themselves. And, uh, and they appreciate your business. That's one thing I do like about them as well as they have a huge variety in stock. They have a, an incredible, uh, supply of optics in their back room and, and have, I imagine anything you need. So whether it be vortex or night force, ice, or whatever you want to use, they'll have it. So anyway, give these guys a call. It's four, three, five, two, five, seven, seven, zero, one, four. Tell them Jason and Adam sent

you. I'm sure they'll make you a screaming deal. You can also go to kent's optics.com. Really appreciate QU. They were the first advertiser on board with us here at Epic Outdoors. Uh, Jason Harrison was a good friend of all of ours and, uh, we appreciate QU's support. Brendan Burns as well. Super good guy. He's out there doing what he says he does. He's an incredible hunter and does a great job. And so they know gear. Uh, they're making some of the best gear out there. Check out what they got going at QU.com. So let's talk about, uh, outdoor edge knives. We've partnered with outdoor edge. They've got some incredible knives coming out. We've all, we all like the razor knives. So the outdoor edge, they do have the long, fairly stiff blade along with kind of a half blade that goes with it that you attach it to.

And so it makes it really sturdy. Uh, you don't have to worry about breaking your blades, uh, razors, whatever you want to call them near as often and, and jabbing one into, into your leg or something like that. And have a little more control on some of that and the, the easy to change in and out, uh, just been awesome. They're a great partner of ours. We really appreciate them and what a great product. And so anyway, you can check out the different knives they offer at www.outdooredge.com or ask an outdoor edge dealer at your local sporting goods store.