EP 106: Coyote Hunting with Garrett Johnson

It is insanity how mean they get, how territorial and protective they get over their pup. What about these older, smarter coyotes? There's a lot of good comes from a hand call. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter here with the Epic Outdoors podcast, coming at you from southern Utah. Snowing a little bit here in Cedar City. They got Chris in the room, of course he'll just be running the computer and making sure I don't say stupid things. Anyway, I appreciate you all listening. I want to thank Under Armour for sponsoring this podcast. They do a lot for us and they sponsor about everything they do, including these podcasts. Got a lot of great gear coming out this next year. They've had a lot of great gear this year and doing incredible things. Anyway, with wintertime and whatnot, they do have some incredible clothing still out on UA.com. You can check it out, UA.com, Under Armour. Type in Baron. That's generally what I do, shortcut to everything hunting that they make.

And so, anyway, another one of our friends is Phonescope, Cheston Davis. Good friend of ours. He makes adapters for dang near every cell phone out there. P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P-E.com. He's got everything you can even adapt. 10 power binos, 15s. The new BTX is spotting scopes, now rifle scope. So, anyway, go to Phonescope.com, hashtag scoped vision, S-K-O-P-E-D-V-I-S-I-O-N. Of course, there's probably 14 other hashtags out there, Phonescope and everything else. You can see what everybody's doing and the support that Cheston's garnered over the years. He's got a great thing going and we appreciate their support. Of course, we've got a lot of other podcast sponsors as well. Oh, Mark Thompson of Thompson Long Range, Mark and Scotty Thompson. I went through Mark's course. You know, it was the first time I ever shot 1,000 yards with Mark Thompson. And a gun I had that I got from him.

They're using Weatherby rifles for the most part. Wide variety of options there. Using Leupold optics and a reticle system. Great guys. Well worth visiting with. Very affordable. Don't hesitate to give them a call. It's ThompsonLongRange.com or 435-713-4248. So, appreciate them and their support of Epic. Let's just jump into this. We've got an awesome guest on here. I've been threatening to have you on for a while. But anyway, old Garrett Johnson, Brushwolf Hunter on Instagram. You on, buddy? I'm here, man. Good to talk to you. Yeah, you too. You too. I know, I guess you just got off work. I was teasing you a little bit about not being jobless as much as you're hunting dogs, huh? Yeah, I got to do something. I'm not playing. I do a lot. But I got to do something. Geez, I watch social media and I'm just wondering about you kids and everybody that's out just

doing whatever they want whenever and not having jobs. But I'm glad you got one.

Yeah, yeah. I've held one down. It's a miracle. But I've done it. That's awesome. It's awesome. Well, basically, I got you on here. Of course, you probably kill about anything and everything that comes in front of you. But mostly about coyotes, it seems like you're just one of the top in the profession right now, if you call it a profession, which they never like to call mule deer hunting a profession either, but we make it one. Right, right. Yeah, we'll just kind of dive into this. But tell us, before we get started, just tell us a little bit about where you're from, maybe how old you are, and kind of what built Garrett. How did you get to where you're at? Uh, well, I came from a big background of hunters, you know, that the mule deer hunt in my in my family was like anybody else's in southern central Utah.

It was a it was a religion, you know, it opening morning of the rifle hunt was better than, you know, Christmas Day, for sure, around my my family and whatnot. So I grew up like that. You know, I was born in Richfield, Utah, I'm 36 years old. So I hang out with a lot younger crowd. My my partner, he's only 24 years old. So I called you a kid. And I know I'm kind of sorry. I'm sorry about that, buddy. I'm close to your age. But no, I grew up right there and in Monroe, Utah, for the most part, I, you know, my mom and dad raised me right there in Marysville, Utah, my dad and my grandpa started a dairy farm back in the day. And I just have always loved the outdoors and and and just been crazy to get out and get in the dirt. I never was a video game guy. I was just always hands on and and out and about. It's just always where I wanted to be.

And and as far as, you know, the background of calling coyotes, I honestly didn't even really care about coyotes or even really put much thought into them until I was about 15 years old. And my father in law, which is still my father in law now, he wasn't my father in law at 15 years old, but I was dating his daughter and he knew. We are from Utah. We are from Utah. You just never know. Yeah. He he knew the only way he could keep me away from his daughter was to take me out and, you know, just go out and either shoot some rabbits or do something or whatnot. He knew I loved to do it and he loved to do it. And he goes, here's this here's this hand call. He caught coyotes with this thing and he starts squealing on and I start laughing and he goes, no, I'm not kidding. You squeal on this thing and then coyotes come running and and you shoot them. And I'm like, what? Show me.

So he went and we set up in the rocks, probably only shoot. I still make that stand to this day. It's only it's only four miles away from the house. And he starts squealing on that thing. I'm sitting over there in the brush giggling at him. And there's Kyle right on the ridge, you know, 200 yards away. And I start casting lead. And I didn't realize at the time that shoot, they'll run you over, get a thin shotgun range. And it just it went from there. And it it just was a disease. It just got in me. And I bought every VHS tape that Les Johnson and Randy Anderson put out. And I did everything in my power to do what they did. And I didn't have YouTube and social media and things like that back then. And that's that's that's how I did it. And I loved it. And like my wife says, she goes, man, you've had so many hobbies and so many things.

But Kyle Hunt is the only thing that has ever really stuck with me and is just constantly plagued our relationship. Just because it's your dad's fault. Yeah. And finally, my wife just decided, you know, hey, if you can't beat him, join him. And and she's one of my right hand partners. I mean, she is. You don't let her. You don't let her shoot, do you? No, I'm actually not a dog hog. I mean, I've seen a lot of cows come to the call. And so over the years, I've gotten a lot more lax with that. And I just enjoy watching new new timers come and kill some coyotes. And I get the joy out of calling the coyote in. You know, that's that's for me now is tricking those coyotes is is my is my jam. Yeah. Well, right on. And so let's see. So I guess you're at 15. Your future father in law takes you out.

So you've been dating this gal or or just knew of her throughout high school or you guys pretty much high school sweetheart. That's yeah, that's it. Wow. Yeah. Well, you can't say she didn't know what she was getting into. Exactly. All right. On. Well, so I know your family's big into deer, like you said earlier. And all of that. I mean, you continue to hunt deer or. Yeah. I got to say right now, this is like a kid that has loved basketball his whole life talking to Michael Jordan. I got to say, Jason, you know, I've always looked up to you and and being, you know, right around you and and getting to watch what you've done, you know, and the accomplishments you've made with a deer that I've known, you know, and things like that. Hell, I can remember. I was a beer man at the time. You probably don't remember this, but that was probably. Don't tell everybody you delivered.

Don't tell everybody you delivered to my house. No, but it was probably 12 years ago that you shot that archery buck out there. And I can remember running across the street because the word had got out. And I remember just you had him on the back seat. And I was just my mind was blown because I I knew where you'd killed him. And I just it's really cool to, you know, to talk to you and stuff. So that's cool, too. Yeah, it is. It's cool, man. And it's what it's been fun to watch you, you know, grow up. Dude, I mean, you freaking you're like the national champion, which we're going to jump. Jump into that. And that's a big deal. And I've I am not a let's just face it. I am not a I want to be a coyote hunter. It takes a lot of skill to be a coyote hunter. And I just I go out and screw with it. And I do kill a few each year and take my kids.

But I mean, man, they're not going to learn a lot from me. There's a lot to it. There's a lot to it. And I'd like to glean a little that from you for the for the listeners as well. We'll just, you know, and you may not want to teach everybody quite everything. But we want to, you know, pull as much out of you as you'll let us have. So where do you want where do you want to start? I'm good with starting like, you know, with hand calls versus versus the electronics or night calling. All your all your I hit you up about a night setup. I mean, it would just be I'm just watching you guys use thermal imaging or whatever it is. I don't know what it all is, but just wherever you want to start. We got a lot to talk about. I came from St. Brad, the background that you probably did. I mean, we used to just leave right there from Cedar City and head out on the desert.

We'd blow the Fox Pro sitting on a spare tire in the back of the truck and run five miles down the road and turn back around and run the beams all the way back through it. I mean, that's just old school stuff. But yeah, anymore, it's it's totally different. And a lot of people discredit night hunting like it's easier. And little do they know, it's just as hard to night hunt as it is to day hunt. In my opinion, I feel like I feel like, you know, there's a lot of things that you don't have to deal with during the day that you do at night. I think the coyotes are a little bit better about coming to the call maybe at night than they are during the day. Yeah, a little less apprehensive. But I mean, as far as discrediting night hunting, that probably shouldn't go on. Guys that know what we do as far as thermal and and the things that we do, it's, you know, I don't know.

I think it's just as hard, if not harder. But as far as an electronic call or a hand call, they all serve their purpose. They all you know, I'm not an expert and I don't want to be acting like I am an expert, giving everybody all this crazy advice. But they all serve their purpose. And I feel like these kids that are getting into it, jumping into it, want to learn. That is a great way to get their base like I did. And like most good callers have is learning how to set up for the wind and the sun and everything you need to do with a hand call. That's going to teach you a lot more than just setting an electronic call up downwind and pushing him into that electronic call. There's a lot of good comes from a hand call and getting the base of your predator hunting from the hand call.

And, you know, I feel like newcomers should probably take a little bit of that away from this podcast is that right there, you know. Start with the basics, you know. Understand and understanding the basics. It's like anything else. But if you're a good hunter like you, Jason, you know what you're doing. I mean, it takes everything in you to creep up on a mule deer. And it's no different with coyotes. You got to understand where they live and, you know, you got to scout for them. You got to do everything that you basically got to do to hunt any animal. Well, that's what I really don't feel. Yeah. And that's what I kind of want to talk about is like from start to finish, like when you're finding a stand, I mean, obviously you're paying attention to what the wind's doing or whatever when you're driving.

And then, like, you know, just like a mule deer, you're not going to park and think that your deer is going to be within 200 to 400 or 500 yards. I mean, generally you're going to park, you know, and not be noticed, hide your truck, your glare off your windshield, all of those things. And then, you know, you're going to hike to a bit to get to a knob to glass or whatever. And I'm sure you're doing that with coyotes. I just kind of want to go start to finish on your stand, your stand setup, you know, what you're thinking as you're driving along. You're figuring out where you want to ditch the truck and hide the truck. I mean, how deep does it go? I mean, there's a lot of guys that will just go out there, park, hop up on the knob. They can see their truck and they're going to go ahead and start calling. And it may or may not work for, you know, pups or whatever.

But I'm sure, you know, older dogs are pretty dang smart. I think a lot of these guys are overthinking a lot of what you, I mean, as far as scent control and things like that, hell, I've been out with guys that are lighting up cigarettes in the stand. I mean, if a coyote is going to wind you, a coyote is going to wind you. And it took forever for me to realize it doesn't matter how much scent control you put on or what you do as far as that. If a coyote is coming to your downwind, he's going to wind you regardless. He's going to wind you and you're done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't matter if you've not showered in three days or you showered that morning and did everything you could. He's going to wind you. That's just, you can't fool a coyote's nose. That's just all there is to it. I've been a trapper my whole life. I just, you just can't fool a coyote. Yeah.

And, you know, as far as like hiding the truck, you definitely want to hide the truck. I feel like, you know, hide it the best you can. You walk in there and, and another thing that kind of bugs me, not bugs me, but I have a lot of kids and guys and whoever hitting me up and asking me like, what's your go-to? What's your go-to? And being and doing it as long as I have, I feel like there's not a go-to for me. I walk into a stand. I see what we got. And it's not always the same. So sometimes I'll start out with a lone howl and then other times I'll start out with a serenade or, or, you know, sometimes you'll just sit down and you'll just start blowing the rabbit call. Or sometimes you might sit down and you might just start blowing pup distress. I mean, it just doesn't matter. It's just what you feel at the time might work the best.

And you just hope there's coyotes in the area and they want to come to what you're, what you're throwing at them. You know, what's the general time of year? Like you got to have some kind of breakdown is this is generally when I would, when I would howl, this is generally a serenade. This would be the pup and distress. I mean, what are those segments of year? You know, I howl year round. I'm not saying I howl on every stand year round, but I use howls year round. Okay. One hundred percent. And I am, you know, I get a lot of grief from a lot of guys about hunting year round, not for fur, blah, blah, blah. I say fur. I've been, I put up fur a long time. Like I get that guys, but if they're going to put out a $50 bounty here in Utah, I'm going to take full advantage of it. Yeah. Okay.

So I'm getting paid that, not just saying if I hunt here in Utah, but if I hunt anywhere, it's going to make me a better caller. If I understand what the coyotes react to 12 months out of the year. Yeah. And I, I love that because I'm, I feel like I'm more well-rounded than the guy that starts. Well, back in the day, you started in October after the deer hunt. And then we went coyote hunting. Sure. Till, till January. And then we were done. Good. Yeah. That's when the first. And that's, that's, that's what we did. But now I don't know. I howl year round. I call year round. I love the different reactions. Um, all year round there, they, they act totally different in their different times of the year. Like the denning season, they're super territorial and dogging has now become my favorite way to call coyotes.

I don't like to, I don't like to talk about that a lot just because everything I talk about, it seems like it just gets more and more popular. And I feel like I'm kind of like, like Reggie Parsons, my, my good friend burning himself, starting times up. You know what I mean? It's just, it's getting to that point now where Carter freaking starting podcast, talking about Milder all the time. It just is what it is, you know? Right. It's going to get out there and I, I get that, but decoy dogging is, it is my favorite time of the year to call coyotes because you will never in your life see such an aggression out of a canine other than that time of year. I mean, it is insanity how mean they get and how territorial and, and protective they get over their, their pups. And that to me is just, it is so fun and you can kill the smart coyotes.

Are you starting that like in May 1st or when are you roughly, a lot of our dogs are popping out. What about April, May? Yeah. March, April, May. Yeah. I mean, it's so spread out and I feel like that is our fault for the simple fact of the pressure. Yeah. Coyotes are weird. They're so, so smart. And I feel like they're smart enough now that they, they are doing some weird things with the pups because I'm killing pups that shouldn't be the ages that they are when they are. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if that's always gone on or if I just haven't. You're probably killing, killing the pups or doing, or something's going on and then they're coming back into heat or something and changing up the cycle. I don't know.

We've never, yeah, we've never been able to smash some of these theories that we have, but I feel like if there's guys like me that go out and they're not going to be able to smash some of these theories that we have. Yeah. We have some den coyotes for the bounty and we dig up a den early in March. I don't see a reason why that bitch wouldn't come back into heat later on. And then she's the one that's having these pups that are way. These are just my thoughts. Sure. Anyway, but I mean, let's get back, let's jump back and not get off topic, but let's just jump back in as far as getting set up and doing what you need to do. I mean, it doesn't take a lot to get into predator hunting. I don't feel like, you know, a hand call costs you 15 bucks at max. You got your, you've already got your rifle. I don't feel like any rifle is better than another, as long as you're comfortable with the setup.

Well, it needs to be like a 22 caliber, doesn't it? Like a 22, 250 or a whatever, 223. Yeah, I mean, in preference, in preference. Yes, for sure. And as far as like sticks and things like that, I would never go out in the field without a set of just shooting sticks. And we used to make them at the hardware store with wooden dowels and a screw running through it with a bolt. Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. Dip them in like a liquid rubber at the top. I mean, dude, and you just freaking take your pocket knife and sharpen the end and call it a shit player shooting sticks, you know? Yeah. And it costs you less than $10 at the hardware store. It doesn't take a lot to get into predator hunting. So the young guys that are thinking it takes one of these $300 to $600 e-calls and all this fancy gear that, you know, I use, yeah, because I'm associated with a lot of these great companies now.

But, you know, I'm doing some advertisement for them and stuff. Well, now you've got to tell everybody that all your success is owed to them. See, I will never be that guy. All right. Well, good. I'm just keeping you honest. Just keeping you honest. But, well, and the e-call is like, honestly, wears you out to freaking hand call all the time. Like, it's aggressive. You're working it, you know? Plus, I've always wondered about the movement. Like, you've got a little bit of movement. You probably learned how to minimize that. And maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe a little bit doesn't matter as much. Well, it does. There is a definite advantage to running an electronic call just for that reason, you know? It takes all the pressure off you, and you can filter that coyote in the exact spot you want him to go, I feel like, you know? Yeah. There's always going to be that dog that backdoors you.

That's just coyote hunting. That's just what's going to happen. So does a dying rabbit work year-round, basically? I mean, dying rabbit works year-round. You're calling or you're howling year-round. Is it just to locate him, and then sometimes you're howling to call him in? And when did you do that? Yeah, howling just gives me a sense of security to know that there's those coyotes in the area. And knowing the howls back, it kind of puts you at ease, or it just tells you to jump up. Boys, let's go back to the truck. It's worthless to sit here. Sometimes you can pinpoint those different vocalizations, and you can understand what educated coyotes are. And that's all down the line when people, that's all going out in the field and learning from experience. That's how you gain all that. I can't teach that. And that's what I hear a lot of.

I sit down and call, and all of a sudden we get the howling, and I'm like, oh, yeah. Gigs up. Yeah, you know. I mean, you heard it. I mean, when you're stalking in on a mule deer and the coyotes bust, they've worn the whole valley. Yeah, they do. Yeah. And you know what that sounds like because you've heard it. So what about, like, all the birds and all these other, there's a lot of different calls and sounds you can make. I mean, like, if you're in, let's say you're in your hometown valley, you feel like it gets called a lot. What do you mix it up with? Um, man. Hometown valley. It's just. Are you feeling the way that I would do it is not necessarily playing a different sound. My, my go to thing in a hometown valley is hitting it in a different way that no one else is really getting in there or getting in deeper. Yeah. Because I feel like there's always that side healer.

There's always that roll in the knob. And that's where every single one of these guys is setting up and setting their call. Sure. If you walk, if you, you know, dedicate yourself to walk a little bit further, get into their living rooms and then set up and then do something a little bit more aggressive. Yeah. And that's, that's worked for me in the past with the hometown coyotes, just getting in, in their living, their living room, just that much further. Yeah. Because you know, they're there, you know, they're there, but you've just gotta, you gotta break that barrier. And that barrier is basically their comfort zone. And if you're inside that, it's, it doesn't matter how educated they are. If you play the right sound inside that comfort zone, you're going to irritate somebody there. Yeah.

You're going to stir, you're going to stir up the wasp nest and it's going to be, it's going to be mayhem, especially come, you know, den in season. Yeah. So are you mostly howling to, to locate and then you'll start in on a, on a dying rabbit, you know, 10 minutes later? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in, in competition settings, it's more or less, let's get to the point. So there's no howling going on in competition settings. It's, it's run in, play the dying rabbit or play some pup distress and, and let's get back to the truck. Yeah. Um, it's, it's a numbers game as far as when you're in a competition, it's just, I don't think it matters what distress you play. A lot of people get caught up in, Oh, Hey, we played with, with a lightning Jack or we did with this one or this one or this bird distress or this or that. Or, or, or, or, I really don't fawn in distress or. Yeah.

And I don't, in my experience, I don't feel like that matters. It's just, he either wanted to come or he didn't, or he wasn't there. Really? That's the thing is he's, he's gotta be there. So let's say. The coyote's gotta be there. Yeah. He's gotta be there first off. And I think that's part of this. And we'll jump into that too, at some point, but you know how you increase your odds in a competition. I mean, you pre-scout or howling and figuring out, you know, this place, this place, this place or whatever.

But anyway, yeah. Talk to us a little bit about, about some of that as far as your setup, you're trying to decide what you're going to play. And, and basically if the coyote's there, you figure he's going to come no matter what you play. But what about these older, smarter coyotes? Is there something that you're just hitting them with something different? Like, dude, I've seen, I've had guests, you know, the flamingo freaking dying flamingos or something crazy weird that, that just all of a sudden piques their interest. And I don't know. You know, pup distress or a fight sound. Rick, Rick Pellett, the guy that built the library for the lucky duck, um, call, you know, and there's other good guys out there. Like, I'll shoot Tony Tebby and some of these other guys that have some coyotes and they're building some, some really great sounds.

And I built some really cool wicked sounds out of the two coyote pups that I had for as long as I did. And, and that pup distress right now is working really good on some educated coyotes. Really? Did you put them in a studio and set them up with mics and just do it so it's pristine and clear? I would, this is no joke. I did it all off my cell phone and it was just pitting those two, the brother and the sister together. I mean, it's like, like in that video. Yeah. You know, that's, that's basically how it went down. There was never any, any torture or anything. Like, I feel like some of this probably goes on, but, um, no, I think. But a pup distress or some of these fight sounds that they have now, or, you know, maybe breaking those older, smaller, smarter coyotes loose a little bit better than. Cause there, there is like, uh, Colton and I were in shoot. What competition was that?

Um, I can't even remember, but we were in a competition not too long ago and it was the second morning and it was the very first stand and we brought a six pack in and we both shot and the coyotes ran off and went out to about a thousand yards and started warning barking and we could see them and they were throwing dirt and carrying on and, and being real aggressive because. You know, of what had just went on. Sure. And we went into some fight sounds and went into some other things. And then it probably only took like four or five minutes. And the one coyote looked at all the others and was like, Hey, you want to go back over there? And I'm going and he come off the hill and the rest of them followed him right back into a hundred yards again. I mean, and gave us a second. Yeah. It's a, it's a crazy thing when you start playing those, some of those sounds, it, it just works. Wow.

I mean, but it's an educated guess, honestly. And so what are you doing? Bluetooth into a speaker from your phone, the stuff that you recorded or? Um, no. Um, I sold them to a guy and he, he now sells them on. I just gain royalties off of what he sells. I just sold the MP3 files to him and he cleaned them up and chopped them up and. Cool. Uh, made some other, you know, some other stuff out of them. I, I put bird distress out there and a few other nagpie sounds that I recorded and, and did, but that's just all for me being out in the. Yeah. You know, yeah. Out and about and being able to capitalize on some of the stuff I hear. You should tell everybody where to buy, you know? Yeah. Coyote calls.com. You can buy my whole sound file and, uh, they're guaranteed to work. As long as, as long as they don't wind you. Yeah. Lighting up a cigar ain't going to count. So, no, it's hilarious.

Well, uh, right on. And so when will these, the pup in distress or, you know, pups fighting or whatever, will they work you around even though they're not pups you around or is there a time? Absolutely. It will. No, absolutely. Yeah. Pup distress is a go-to call. I mean, if you took everything away from me. Even December. Yeah. I mean, December is like what all of us coyote hunters laugh about anymore. It's like December lulls. I mean, there's nothing but educated coyotes. The pups are growing up a little bit. A little bit educated. Yep. Yep. They're older. It's going to be tough to find. I mean, but you will, you'll run a valley and you'll jump out and you're, you're willing to grind out, you know, 15 stands that day. You're going to find a pocket where there's a one or two dumb coyotes that either haven't heard a call or just really, really hungry. Wow.

Tell me about like when they start to pair up in January, is there something or is that where you're, you know, that's December, January, December, January is by far the hardest time to call coyotes in my experience. Yeah. That's for around here. Yeah. I'm not saying, I mean, if you went to Mexico and you were in the high rack and these coyotes hadn't been touched on a ranch. Oh, you're going to call them all year round. All day long. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't matter. You sit down, put the foxprout there, but that's because they haven't been called. That can happen anywhere as long as they haven't been called. Yeah. So if you have places like that, don't stop calling coyotes in December and January because I'm sitting here talking about how hard it is. Yeah. If you know that there's areas like that, man, by all means, pound them. Yeah. Yeah.

And so, and so what would you use when they're paired up, let's say January, February? Same. I mean, if they're not educated, absolutely. We're just going to sit down and play the rabbit or some pup stress. Or howling. Like does a male get possessive of this, you know, when they're paired up like that? Yeah. That's, that's a really fun, that's a really fun thing when you make a, make a male mad because he might think you have his girlfriend over there or whatever. And he comes in and he's throwing dirt and screaming at you. That's a lot like decoy dog season. Wow. Some of those reactions that you can get that time of year are a lot of fun, but they're few and far between. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, you have a two dog day in Utah right now. You are a stud. Well, every time I turn on Instagram, people are having two and three and four dog days. So I just don't know where I'm coming from.

You know, I don't know how many of those are really coming up to Utah.

Let's, what about, what about let's dogging real quick. Is there a certain breed of dog that works better than others or? I don't think so. No, I really don't. Yeah. Just any old dog that understands what you're asking of him. I mean, uh, I don't think the larger breeds would be a way to go just because it's going to intimidate the coyotes. They're, they're survivalists. They're not going to go over there and get in a fight with a German shepherd. Yeah, sure. You know, and even, even the decoy dogs that you do use that are 40 to 60 pound dogs that you're using, or, I mean, the coyotes are still not going to full on fight those coyotes unless they're in a pack. And they, they have, you know, security in numbers. Right. And coyotes, not stupid. They are not going to put themselves in jeopardy to where they might die. They're survivalists. They are the ultimate survivalists. Yeah, they are.

So. They're unbelievable. Well, tell me about, uh, say you're, you've got a partner. I mean, when do, when do, when do you both have a rifle versus one with a shotgun? What's the roles? Um, you set up. My partner's not a big shotgun guy. I've always been a shotgun guy. No, it's, it's not always back to back. It's just the lay of the country. A lot of time I'm out in front with the shotgun laid down with the rifle, but the shotgun's in hand. Like, um, in most competition settings and the rifle's usually off to my right, sitting in the sticks, just in the upright position. Okay. Um, and then he runs the rifle. Sometimes we both pack shotguns, but a shotgun goes to the stand every single time. Really? Yeah. Every, every single time in, in nationals, there was not one single coyote that got pumped full buckshot. I never once got to kill a shotgun coyote.

And like I say, shotgun goes to set every time. Yeah. There was two times in nationals that I got lucky. I left the shotgun in the truck and I got lucky and made running shots on coyotes. I mean, because I had, I had totally, you know, underestimated the way the stand layout was and things like that. People think, oh, it's wide open. Leave the shotgun. That's not always the case. I get caught up doing that too. Cause I get lazy and don't want to pack it. Yeah. But, uh, when you get lazy and you don't pack it and let your guard down, that's when they mow you over in the wide open. So when do you, you, when do you, when do you feel like you're going to, they're come close enough and you need to lay into them? Are you waiting for 150 yards, a hundred?

You're just watching the body language. It's just like any, any animal, you understand what their ears are doing or what their head's doing. But if they're at a kamikaze coyote and they're just blown in as fast as they can, that's, that's when I use a shotgun. I'm not the guy that takes a shotgun to go use just the shotgun. Yeah. I use the shotgun for just self-defense, self-defense. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And cleaning up just ultimate crazy messes, which if they've, they happen. Really? They happen. Yeah. Five pet comes in and you're just laying into them. Yeah. I mean, you're just everything you got. And then you're throwing the shotgun off in the stage and you're picking up the rifle, trying to clean up the rest of it. So it's freaking awesome. That's what makes it fun. That's what makes coyote hunting fun is it's not always the same. Yeah. That's crazy.

Tell us about your rifle setup a little bit. I know a lot of guys like ARs. I just, I have an AR and I like it and I've killed coyotes with it, but dude, I'm just a, I love my, I love my 22, 250 bolt gun. Oh yeah, absolutely. And that's, that's where, you know, that's where I've, that's what I grew up hunting with and that's what I love. And day hunting, I still run my bolt gun. I have ARs and, and things like that, but I feel like the ARs serve a lot better purpose. Um, for sure. Thermal hunting. Yeah. Is, you know, they have their purpose there for me and that's where I like them. Is it just, you have more rounds or the speed of it? Yeah. It's, it's just the more rounds it's cause you're, you're, you're looking through that screen and it's, it's kind of like a video game. It really is. It's, it, the ARs stay down.

And then if you're jacking around with a bolt gun, if you're not really savvy to get back on that coyote is super tough and thermal. That makes sense. And you're able to stay on your targets. And when, you know, in the dark, you're usually calling a lot of multiples and, and you're able to swing. I'm just, I'm just like, I'm old school. I just love the, the reliability and the accuracy and just everything about a bolt gun is just always fit me. Well, they, they're tight, man. These ARs, everything's just a little loose and it just, I just never get quite the accuracy out of it. Yeah, exactly. No, I, I love my bolt gun. I just run a, a cheaper rifle. I run through rifles pretty quick. I, I hunt a lot and I shoot a lot.

Um, and the 22 to 50, the Hornady Sue performance rounds, you know, they're, they're loaded up a little bit hotter and, and you're not going to get the barrel life that you would normally get. Yeah. Um, I just shoot a, I grew up shooting a Remington model 700 VLS for coyotes and it's underneath the bed right here. But I retired it a couple of years ago and got a, a how a 22 to 50. Um, it's a 1500. It's probably really only a 350, $400 gun. Yeah. And it just is attack driver and I just run vortex optics up on top. I like a low powered scope. Um, the one I'm running now is the razor lightweight Hunter three to nine. And it just has, it just has really good field of view. And I always, I always had, uh, loophole three to nine very X twos. Sure. And that's, that's all I ever shot, but I, I shoot my rifles on a really low power. Yeah. Um, I always keep them super low.

My, my partner thinks I'm crazy, but I shoot coyotes out to 300 yards and the highest I crank it is on eight. That's just, that's just me. Just six inches over their back or just right at the top of their back. Generally at 300 yards. I'm, I'm just touching guard hair. Yeah. If I'm touching guard hair, they're going to die. Cause I'm zeroed at a hundred. Okay. I will. I used to shoot an inch high at a hundred. I'm like, why there's no sense in it. I just, I dead on at a hundred and I'm good anywhere from a hundred to 10 yards. And it's just, it's just what works for me. I'm not a big turret guy. I don't dial. I feel like if I have to dial on a coyote, I haven't done my job and that's not what I'm there to do. I'm there to call coyotes and I'm not there to dial, bang at them, you know, dial and bang at them. But there's, there's times I've done that.

I'm not saying I haven't, but it would be nice. What kind of bipod are you using? I mean, in competitions, I'm a stick guy still. I'm the fastest on my sticks and they're just, you know, fiberglass sticks, like you're saying with the rubber top, there's nothing to them. And that's what I've always shot. And I'm, I'm really quick with it. You have to be quick in a, in a competition setting, you can't really set up with a tripod. My partner shoots with that new swagger bipod and he absolutely loves it. And I love it too. I've just never gave it a fair enough shot.

And so, I mean, it's just whatever works for you. If you feel like it's working for you, go with it. Don't overthink it. Yeah. What, uh, what about the time of day? I mean, are you midday morning evenings? Is there one versus another windy, not windy? I used to be that guy. I used to be the morning and evening guy, but anymore, what I kind of have found out is those first few stands in the morning are always the funnest because you're anticipating it. And you're, you know, you're excited to be out, blah, blah, blah. Um, I feel like those first couple of stands are like getting to be some of my worst because I feel like the coyotes are more, uh, they're more alert. They're, uh, they're up, they're hunting. They're still haven't made it to their bedding areas. They're out and about. They're listening. They're watching.

Everybody's getting going in the morning that there's more traffic on the roads. There's more things going on. And I feel like the coyotes are more alert. Those first few stands and I, and I feel like I'm more successful from 10 to two. Wow. It's, I mean, it's like calling turkeys guys are really successful at 10 to two. They are. Yeah. But no, that's just that, that might be just in my head because in nationals, it was crazy. The first few stands of our, of our whole trip were our most productive, but I mean, it's just the day and the setup and how you got in and how quiet it was when you got in. Yeah. And if, you know, if they were in there, if the coyote was in the right area in that thousand yard range away from you, he didn't hear you come in or, or the lay of the country was just right. It just has to be just right. What about the volume?

And then I'm going to dive into nationals and stuff, but tell me about the volume of on a e-call versus, you know, loud versus quiet. I mean, what do you. If it's quiet outside, I'm, I always start quiet. That's just me. I always start out a little with a little something, uh, quieter. If it's super quiet early morning, you know, that's just me. If it's like that, I usually just grab the hand call and rip the hand call a couple of times. And then, and then if nothing goes after that, you know, I'll, I'll run the electronic call and bump the sound up a little bit, but I always sit and mess with it. Just grab it at the house and put it, put it in front of you and turn it towards you and, and get your volumes and look at your remote and see what that volume was. And if it sounded right, you know, and then memorize your volumes and understand how your call sounds at those volumes.

And that's, that's just what I've always done. I've always tinkered with it that way. So this night hunting, is it, is it legal to use this, uh, the night scopes and different things on non-game predator animals about anywhere or what's the. Yeah. There's certain counties, you know, um, that allow it and you have to go to your, your sheriff and get a signature and you have to let, you know, you have to go get a permit, a spotlighting permit is what it is. I mean, those have been around forever. Yeah. Here in Utah. Yup. Yeah. So, I mean, you just got to make sure you're within your county statutes and, and follow the laws as far as that go. But private property is more or less my go-to in the evenings just because I, you don't really have to worry about it as long as it's legal to night hunt in the county and you're, you're

good and you're taking care of, taking care of the coyotes for somebody, you know, that's usually when we do it. Cool. Right on. So, well, uh, let's talk about these competitions. I know you spent time in Nevada. They've got all kinds of competitions around. I mean, did you get into that room right away? And it might be just a natural, we're competitive by nature of just guys are, and hunters are competitive, but, um, obviously it helped you learn a lot and you probably learned a lot, forced to learn a lot fast and really make it a priority. But how'd you get into that? And, and what did you learn from it? And then let's talk about some of the defining moments of some of these competitions and how, how they came off. Um, competition hunting probably came about almost 10 years ago, just a local, uh, Milford,

Utah competition, you know, and, and me and my partner, uh, Riley Rose from over there. He's like, man, let's do it. We hunt the same country. And I'm like, all right, let's do it. And then that's, that's kind of where that one came from. We started being able to put up some numbers and, and be competitive in our local competitions is usually where it started. And then it just snowballed from there. And, you know, I started hunting the world championships from an old boy. He actually rolled up to a gas station in Milford with a world championship sticker. And he goes, I was like, how do you, how do you hunt in that? And this is after a few competitions and he goes, you just, you got to get invited. And I says, Hey, or have a, an in with someone. And I go, Hey, would you, would you, you know, put in a good word for me and get me in on that deal? And he ended up doing that.

And I, I hunted worlds back then. And this was before social media or. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really? Yeah. And so I, I got into the world championships that way. And the highest I ever, um, Oh shoot. It was sixth place. But back then it wasn't like it is now. It's really gone downhill. There's been some bad, bad things go on as far as the way that the contest runners have ran it and controversy as far as that. You mean like cheating or what? No, no, no, no, not cheating. Just, uh, not, not paying out the proper payouts and things like that. So people got bad taste in their mouth. But back when we play sixth, it was a hundred teams. I mean, so sixth place was like. Pretty good. Really, really good. You know, you're in the, you're in the top six and that. And as far as nationals and that goes, um, it's always been something that I wanted to do, but I've honestly been scared of it. Yeah.

Nationals is like, um, a competition where 20 coyotes or you don't come back to check in. I mean, like you're not going to show your face and, and unless Johnson is like, um, I don't know. He's like my Michael Jordan. You know what I mean? Yeah. He, he's, I've known about him my entire life. I've taken a lot of the way that he calls is my style because I got to watch him and that's just what I did. And he was successful. So I wanted to do what he did, but he, he hunted nationals and, and was a national champion winner and a triple crown winner. And, and I just was honestly always scared to go to this competition because of guys like that. You know, I'd never felt like I had what it take. I just didn't have the edge that I needed to put up those kinds of numbers. Yeah. And I just kept learning and kept learning and kept going to more competitions and building,

you know, confidence and, and gaining knowledge of the country and where the coyotes were and what we needed to do to put up those kinds of numbers. Faster truck and make more stands. Exactly. Exactly. You know, back in the day, we didn't drink beer. Get after it. Exactly. You just, you know, I drink a lot of beer, but I do not drink beer while I'm coyote. No, that's a, that's a serious thing for me. And, uh, white mom, I just, yeah, exactly. And, and we, back in the day, we didn't understand, you know, if we put 20, 15 to 20 stands in, in a competition setting, we were like, man, that was awesome. We did great today, blah, blah, blah. But yeah, little did we know, you know, to be competitive, you've got to put, you've got to put down third, 30 to 40 sets anymore. I mean, these guys, 10 minutes, there's no, there's no, you know, it just, it just depends. Yeah.

That's the thing is there's never a set number, but I mean, there's stands that we're there for four minutes and we're gone. Yeah. If we sit down, we just don't feel like it's going to happen. We just get up. We leave. Cut your losses. But I mean, it's just, you don't slow down. You run, you jump fences. You don't really worry about things that you worry about when you're. Trying to be quiet. Yeah. Yeah. What? Yeah. Just going out and having a perfect day. Yeah. You're just going in there and hoping and praying that coyote's in the proper area you needed to be to get him to the call. Yeah. And you're just hustling, hustling. Yeah. Yep. While you're jumping a fence. Exactly. You just got to pray that all of it comes together. And we entered nationals this year and, and we set out to kill 20 coyotes. Was this by invitation or did you have to win a few or place in Nevada and some other

competitions? How do you do it? So, so nationals was invitation only back in the day, like a lot of these, but they kept losing a lot of, a lot of players. So they opened it up to the public now. Okay. Okay. And so we got in and it's under new, new management this year. And we got in and, and decided we were going to do it. And my partner and I got together and we had some ground that we had saved for this. And we got out there and it just, the stars aligned. That's all there is to it. We were not better than anybody. We were that day, but it doesn't make us a better caller. It was just that the coyotes reacted to everything that we did and we shot 100%. We never lost a coyote and we never missed a coyote. Every coyote that came. I remember when you, when I hit you, you were on your way home and, and, uh, I hit you and

it's like, dude, you know, and you said, you said they just, none of them got away. Yeah. I mean, and, and so we're sitting there and we killed 25 coyotes the first day. Yeah. That's retarded. And that was from morning till three o'clock in, in the afternoon. And we have to, we had to quit hunting at three. Everybody does? Like everybody does? No, no, no. We had to get out of the place we were in. So you're driving way away from everybody. Yeah. We had, we had a long drive. So we had to, we had to get out of there and, and, uh, and get to where we needed to be, to be close enough to check in the next morning and start hunting the next morning. So when do you check in in the evenings? Like when do you check in? So the evening we had to call in, but what was really cool is I started a competition eight years ago.

And I always wanted to eliminate the cheating because I've always heard of the cheating and this and that. So I came up with a method, um, on two cell phones, two smartphones, where you have to pick the coyote up, shake the coyote, state the sex of the coyote and show how many times the coyote was shot and then tag the coyote all on one continuous video with the proper tag. So there's, there's no, there's no way you can cheat. I mean, because the coyotes get rigged mortis within 30 minutes. Sure. And so in this competition, um, little did I know they didn't even warn me, but when I got to nationals, they pulled me up on stage and they asked me to teach everybody that method. No one knew that was going to happen. Wow. That's awesome. It was crazy. So I got up there and I taught everybody how to do it and everybody was on the same page and we all set out. Did they give you a warm coyote?

No, I wish they would have. That would have been cool. But, um, everybody understands, you know, these guys that are in these competitions are there for a reason because they, they've done it and they understand. And, and the guys that are at nationals are the best in the world. And, and it's, it's a cool thing. And so we all set out and did our thing and we killed those 25 coyotes that day. And, and, uh, so you have to video them and then you have to show up and show up in person too. Yeah. So then we got to start hunting the next day, but we only have about a half a day to hunt the next day. And we killed six coyotes that, that next day on our way. And we got there and we thought we were going to blow everybody out of the water. I mean, we were like, Oh yeah, 30, 31 coyotes. I mean, and the, the prior record was 24 coyotes in two days and we beat the two day record in the first day.

Yeah. Yeah. And it was held by Les Johnson. And so I was already on cloud nine. I was thinking, Oh my gosh, I just smashed my idols freaking record, dude. We're like, we're, we're just wrong. Yeah. You know, we're just having the time of our lives and, and we're going back with, you know, we never got arrogant. We never got cocky and we never let our guard down. And I think that was key to our success because we kept grinding stands out to the bitter freaking end. I mean, we were, we were doing everything we could to pull more coyotes to the truck, even with having 31 coyotes. Yeah. Well, it was kind of funny. I mean, I got to tell this story real quick, but we were just banging them out, banging them out. And we were running back to the truck and a coyote was back dooring us. And I go, Colton, right there, right there. And I go, I'm going to run over there and shoot him. And we took off.

He's like, wait for me. And I just took off running for the wash on the other side. And I kept looking for the coyote down in the bottom at like three, 400 yards. And I couldn't see it. All of a sudden I see this coyote just blown as fast as it can out on the ridge. I'm thinking, my hell, that's eight, 800 yards. And I got on my sticks and I put him at the bottom left-hand corner of my scope. And he was just going from, from left to right as hard as he could. And I put him down in there and just pulled the trigger. And Colton's like, oh man, he missed because he thought I shot down below, you know. And all of a sudden you hear, wah. And I'm like, this has got to be, this is a joke, right? Like we've shot 100% and now I just shoot a coyote on the run at 800 yards. And I look at him and I go, dude, I just hit that coyote. He goes, where? I said, over on that side.

He goes, you got to be kidding me. And we just start like high five and I'm like, we got to go because I had to get the check-in. Yeah. So I took off with a little bit of rope and ran across there. I said, get the range finder. Well, he ranged, it wasn't 800 yards, but it was 600. Wow. It was 608 yards to the dot. And I got it, I got it back to the truck. And that was, that was lucky number 31. It was pretty crazy. That's crazy. And that's the coyote. Were you just following through? You didn't stop your gun? You're just following through? Keep your gun moving as you squeeze or you don't even remember? I don't even remember. It was the biggest Hail Mary I've ever chucked out in the air. Let's just say that. It was the most luck that I've ever had in my life. Well, my brother-in-law, we had my 338 Remington Ultra Mag in the truck and it's perfectly dialed to 1500 yards.

And anyway, we had a coyote at 607 or eight yards in Nevada. And he laid down and I mean, just hammered that thing. But this dog ain't running. You know, he's perfectly broadside. We thought we did something. You know what I mean? Yeah. No. I can't imagine a dog freaking tail, tail even with his nose running full bore, you know. Full bore. As fast a coyote can go. I mean, this coyote was not even looking back. I need to tell you what. If this wasn't meant to be, it wasn't meant to be. And it was just meant to be that day. And so 31 dogs. 31 coyotes. We get back to check in and we're unloading coyotes and the second place team rolls up. And it's a guy we know and it's a good friend of ours. And we've hunted, you know, a lot of tournaments against him. And we know he's tough. And we knew he was going to be right there with us. And we looked at him and he looked at us and he goes, how many?

And I go, 31. And he just went almost the ghost white color. And he goes, 31 coyotes. And I go, yeah. And I go, how many? He goes, 30. They had 30 coyotes. I mean, and they hunted their balls off. And they just, you know, it was just meant to be for us. Wow. It was just neat. Any luck ones driving down the freaking county road doing 50 and get out and dump one? I mean. We had one road dog the entire trip. Everything else was called in. That's crazy. It was super crazy. Yeah. It was. So when's check-in? 6 p.m. Or when is check-in? I can't remember when it was. But no night, honey. You go to bed. No. You wake up. Yep. You meet together again, 7, 6, or 7 a.m. And you crank out again. Yep. Yep. That's awesome, dude. Start going again. And that's the way most of them are. You know, the Nevada State Championship, we took third this year. It's a 24-hour hunt. So you, second you leave, check in.

Yep. You start night hunting. And then you come back. But I won a pretty cool competition this year with Rusty Gamble. It was a two-day shotgun-only competition. Was it really? Yeah. And it was the average would win. And we turned in three coyotes the first time, the first day. So we were really down on ourselves. Because we, if we would have had rifles, we would have shot, I think we counted like 17 that could have died. It was so brutal. And then the next day, we had a 10-dog shotgun, 10-dog day. Shotguns only. I mean, you couldn't, we didn't even have rifles in the truck. That's how crazy this was. You'd just sit there with a shotgun over your hip. But that competition taught me more in those two days than I've learned about coyotes in, I swear, five years. I mean, it was, it was nuts what it taught me. Like, just patience and things like that that you need. It was really fun. Yeah.

Yeah. It was, it was a lot of fun. It was challenging. But that was one of my, that was one of my favorite competitions to ever win. And we took first, ended up taking first place. What are you using for a shotgun, like a Benelli or are you just. I used to just shoot an old pawn shop Winchester modified choke because I never shot anything over 30 yards. Yeah. But my wife, I was kind of getting pretty hammered to the point where it wasn't doing what it needed to do. And I couldn't rely on it. But she ended up buying me a Remington Versa Max. And I've loved that gun. It's been super good. What choke are you using on these? It's just a full choke. I'm not shooting anything fancy. Like I say, I use it for. For right up close coyotes, you know, on full chokes, just, I mean, it's just pommeling coyotes. You bet. Yeah. Man, that's crazy.

So defining moments of your life, you figure like that, that 600 yard dog or. I mean, any other, any other crazy stories? Um, my wife and I last year, last March, we entered a competition in, in, uh, Eureka, Nevada. And that was, that was really fun with hunting with her. They, they only gave us 10 tags for a two day hunt. And we filled 10 dogs in one day and went back. And I mean, we of course swept the competition, but that was, that was a really, really fun defining moment. That was, cause it just doesn't happen in March, you know, that, and it was all, it was all me guessing what to do. I, I left the vocals in the truck. I left the, the E call in the truck. And I felt like that day I needed to be blowing a hand call. And I blew a hand call with rabbit distress and, and had coyotes in Nevada running me over. Wow. Crazy. I mean, it's just like a good lure.

You don't put it in the truck if it's working. Austin and Eureka is like population nine. So. Oh yeah. But they'd still get called a lot. I think out there. Oh man. Yeah. It's, there's nowhere sacred really. I mean, you might know a couple of pockets getting as deep into some country that you get into looking for those giants. But I mean, as far as good sage flats and things like that, there's nothing sacred really anymore. I mean, everything I've been around, I've seen guys calling and seen remnants of being called. So. Wow. Your sacred country is pretty tough to come by anymore. Oh yeah. It is. People are willing to do a lot. Even for cow elk. I see people doing crazy stuff with Jeeps and ruining pickups for, for cow elk. People work, people work hard, man. They do. They do. Yep. So. There's a lot of, a lot of avenues. I mean, there's so much now. I mean.

That you can do with your smartphone. Oh yeah. I mean, you know, I mean, you can figure something out really quick. Cause if you go to a zone and it was good and you zoom out on your Google earth and you look at that and you look at the way that it's set up. Yeah. You can pick a lot of good spots out by zooming in on a whole bunch of other different parts. Oh yeah. No question. So. Yep. Yeah. I'm preaching the gospel though to you, you know. What, uh, is, so is that 25 dog day? Is that your best day or. Oh yeah. Hands down. No matter what. Just prior to that, I think it was a 13 dog day. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. You probably need to put overload springs on them. Toyotas. I don't know what you're running now, but. Well, I was running a brand new Tacoma. Until I wrecked it. Did you wreck it? No. Oh my gosh. I totaled it. Yeah. Brand new 2018 Tacoma. I, I totaled it. Come on.

I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't tell anybody, but yeah. It was on a, in a coyote tournament. I was headed to a coyote tournament. Really? Going flying in to check in and just. No, I wish I had that good of an excuse. It was just late at night. Just a bad accident. So. No way. Fortunate. Fall asleep or. No. Shoot. It's a long story. That's probably why I didn't. All right. All right. That's all good. Let's just say just stupidity. All right. All right. Yeah. Well, cool, man. Well, what do you, where do you go from here? Like, what's your plan? Are you, I mean, is this something you want to do for a living? Develop your own call line? Develop. I mean. No. Is there a living in coyote hunting? I don't know. There's, there's a couple of guys being able to do it. I don't feel like, you know, no, there's, there's TV star guys and things like that.

I just don't feel like that's. Yeah. You know, unless there was a, there's this huge paycheck at the end of it. Of course. I don't think so. It's stupid not to do it, but I don't, I just don't see that happening in my world. And I just want to be, I just want to be that country boy that I've always been and crazy. You know, I've always been that. I don't know. I've always been pretty rowdy and pretty rambunctious guy, you know, I'm fun to go out with all my buddies and go do what we do. And I want to just continue to be that guy and, and be able to teach, you know, the younger generation, a little bit of, of this. And it's just been fun with Instagram and being able to do some of that stuff. But I, I want to remain the guy that's true to his craft.

You know, I want to, I want to just be that guy and be known for that guy and, and be known for the guy that was never afraid to answer the questions and, and be very approachable because there's been some guys in this. You know, it's a lot like those old trappers. I mean, they don't talk. No. Or those old, you know, those old, those old, or like you, Jason. You don't talk. I do too, dude. I talk a lot, but I'm telling you, there's some of these old guys, they don't, they don't talk, man. And it was all about how many fish did you catch? You know, or, or how'd you do today? And they used to have buck contests and dude, I mean, even to this day, you got 70, 80 year old guys. I mean, they're legit serious about it. And that's how they judge a man is how many fish you catch today. All right.

And they walk away, you know, there was just some, there was just some bad taste in my mouth for some people, you know, back in the day that just treated me wrong. I was just trying to learn. That's all I was trying to do. And it just, you know, it upset me. And I just like, you know what? I never want to be that guy. Yeah. I, I just want to be the cool guy and be able to answer some questions and hopefully people, you know, hopefully people look up. Look up for me, look up to me for what I've done. And that's, that's, that's who I want to be known for. Yeah, for sure. Well, dude, and with Instagram, it gives you a pretty heavy voice. You got a great following, you know, and, uh, you know, it allows you to throw, you know, throw these companies out there a little bit and throw them a little love. And, and, and, uh, people that treat you well. And, and, uh, it's awesome.

There's kids, my kid, you know, Sean, just big into it, calling his own coyotes, you know, ditching school here and there. And, and, uh, it's hard not to smile when he does that. Of course, his mama don't like it, but, you know, it's just, it's awesome. And he grips onto everything, you know, he's liking all your stuff and following all these kids. And, uh, not that you're a kid, but, uh, even like Seth and some of these guys that are right. You know, what about raising coyotes a little bit before we end here? Just, I mean, did it teach you a lot? Was it more than, oh man, it was so crazy. Cool. How that taught me, you know, I'd never do it again because it's just not fair to the coyotes. Yeah. Um, I got a lot of respect for them. A lot of people don't think you do when you just go try to put 25 in the bed of the truck. You know what I mean? Oh yeah.

But I just learn, you learn so much from these coyotes. It's so fun. It, it really was. And it was a great experience and, you know, I don't recommend it. It's not for everybody. I mean, they're crazy. They're wild. And you can never really take the wild out of a coyote. I mean, you can take a little bit, but it's always going to be there. I mean, you never take it for a Sunday walk. No, you didn't. Yeah. And you just didn't, you didn't put them around your face. I mean, there was always going to be a nip or a bite or a, they're just crazy little buggers, you know, but boy, did I learn a lot. I did. I really did. And I, I feel like I was able to teach some people a lot about them too while I had them. So it was a lot of fun. It was just fun watching them grow up and get, get to adults and, and just watch the crazy things that coyotes do.

I mean, even the kind of domestic dogs that I had just watching their natural habits, you know, it was just a lot of fun. That's awesome. Yeah. It was a lot of fun. That's awesome. Well, any crazy stories you ever have one grab onto the end of your boot or do something, just run you over or. Oh, geez. Yeah. I mean, I could sit here and tell stories all night about that kind of stuff, but as far as one that really sticks out. Oh man. There's, there's so many. I really don't. I, I don't have like a. Calling in lions, bobcats. Yeah. I've called in bobcats that slid into my buddy. I've, uh, called, I've called, uh, that exact same stand. I learned that coyotes would come to a call when I was 15. I called a mountain lion Thanksgiving day. We just got through a Thanksgiving dinner and ran out there and set up on the rocks and started calling with a hand calling. I says, holy cow.

I told my wife's uncle, I says, wait, check that out. There's a line coming to the call. It's coming down off the hill. He didn't have any binoculars. I handed him, but binos and it just winded its way all the way down the draw through the cedar trees. And all of a sudden before we knew it, he was sitting on his butt at 40 yards, flipping his tail in the snow. Yeah. And it's pretty crazy. But as far as cool coyote stories, probably worlds two years ago, um, I got dropped on a stand cause you can, you can drop one of your partners as long as the other one doesn't make a stand out and head of you. Okay. And it was just a perfect draw. And I actually did start out with some howls on that. Got the coyotes to howl, knew they were there and went into some fight sounds immediately. Didn't mess around with rabbit, didn't do anything.

And I waited eight minutes cause I knew there was a long ways out there and it was going to take them a minute. I hit about that eight minute Mark and all jokes aside. I saw one, two, four, six, eight, 10, 12 coyotes all come over the, out of the same wash and out into the wide open in the junipers and yellow grass, all coming together like a wolf pack straight at me. And once again, I was a drop stand and I didn't grab the shotgun. I've got a two 23, just a little, a little truck gun, you know, sitting in my lap. Five rounds in it. Yeah. I dropped three coyotes out of 12.

Oh geez. But, uh, yeah, that was probably one of the neatest things I've ever seen. I've never seen, I've seen a lot of coyotes on, you know, in pivots and out and about and things like that, but I've never seen a mob in like a pack like that day. Did you, uh, you said you had some groups come in, you know, packs of coyotes, like three, did you have, and maybe it seems like you mentioned five at nationals this year and then you end up killing them all. We killed six coyotes on one stand. How, like just kept calling. Did they all come in together? So we had three coyotes come in the first sequence and my partner shot one, dropped it. I coyote stopped and dropped another one. So then there's one coyote left and it was running as fast and as hard out of it. Out of the stand as it could. And I dropped that coyote on the run. Wow. It was just, it was just luck.

Like the entire trip was kept calling, put on my pup distress called three more coyotes show up. We simultaneously without knowing it shot exact same time at two separate coyotes, drop those two coyotes. And I kind of winged my coyote kind of hit him. He was chest on and shot him and, and kind of winged him. And he, he started biting and growling and flipping and you know how they'll do when you make a bad shot. Yeah. And then you dump them. Yeah. And he was screaming and doing his thing. And the third cow or the sixth cow turned around and looked at him and that was the ultimate fate. I put him down too. So we, we had, we had six coyotes down laying all within basically a hundred yards of each other. It was, it was insane. So we both grabbed two coyotes, run back to the truck. I truck. I says, you start making out tags. I'll go get the other two.

And I went, ran back into the stand, grabbed two more coyotes. And we had six coyotes and one stand. Did your video clip and drill away. Yeah. Did our video and the whole nine yards went to the very next stand and called and killed a triple, we called and killed a triple. So we have nine coyotes in the truck all of a sudden, you know, and it's like reality set. Yeah. Here we go. How many shells you got, buddy? Here we go. We killed five doubles that day and the rest were singles. Wow. Crazy. Yeah. It was insane. It was. So are you, uh, how many furs are you taking to the sale or, I mean, are you dealing with it or are you dumping them off to somebody else to deal with it? Yeah. A lot of it were, um, you know, a lot of it is going to Wyoming. Fur prices are a little better up there. Okay. Um, I usually just tube them out, roll them up, freeze them and then send them anymore.

I'm not, you know, my Bobcats are the same way anymore. I really don't put a whole bunch on wood stretchers anymore. Just for the simple fact that just time. If I could, yeah, no. Yeah. If I could freeze the carcasses whole, like my buddies are like Seth Simpson, he, he, uh, he basically freezes the whole entire carcass. Wow. And he'll shit, he'll ship the entire truckload when he's got a truckload of carcasses. Yep. Full blown carcasses. Not, not touched one bit. I mean. And they buy them untouched? Untouched. On the carcass. Frozen. Yeah. For less or what do they do? We, yeah, it's a little less. I mean, of course, cause they got to put the time and energy into stretching them and, and, and, you know, flashing them and doing the whole thing. But it's not enough to worry about. No. Anymore. It's not. I mean, you know what it takes to put up a piece of fur.

It's, there's, it ain't worth it. It's a time consuming process. Disgusting critters. Yeah. They talk about it with respect. I have no respect for a fond feeling freaking dog. I don't. I hate them all. Oh shoot. But they are smart. I'm telling you. It's the smartest critter on earth. Yeah, they are. They are very, very smart. Well, dude, you got anything else you want to, you know, throw out there for everybody that's listening? I mean. Maybe the whole mule deer insurance thing, my, my brand, my logo. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that kind of goes hand in hand with you. That's why I throw it out there. Just kind of a, I don't know, fun thing I did and build a hat and a logo and you kill coyotes, your mule deer insurance, you're ensuring that there's going to be more, more big bucks for Jason to kill. Hey, there can never be too many or, or big enough. So tell us a little bit about it.

How do they support that? Where do they find you? Man, I don't even have a website. I wish I did, but me and my wife just sell the stuff off my Instagram. Just hit us up and we, you know, throw hats and shirts on there when we can afford a little bit of inventory. Good. Cool, man. They can hit you up on the DM on the side. Is it brush? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yep. And then we got a share page for guys. You know, if you're out killing some coyotes and you hashtag mule deer insurance, we'll throw you up on the mule deer insurance share page and get you guys out there. It's pretty fun. Right on. Right on, man. Well, I appreciate you taking the time. Man, it's been fun. What kind of truck are you going to buy now? Or did you already buy one? I did. Yeah. And bought me a little, an older, older Chandra and I absolutely love it. Like those, uh, I had a year 2000. I sold it to Chris and Chris.

I thought I wore it out and he really wore it out and he still got five grand for it traded. I can't believe what those trucks bring on trade in. I can't believe it. Yeah. It's insane. I mean, you get, you buy a Toyota, you're going to be good no matter what. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yep. I miss, I miss the brand new rig, but I just, man, as hard as I go and what I do, it just, it's tough to jump in a brand spanking new truck and watch your buddy throw mud all over the side of it. I'm telling you, I roll through trucks, I work one or two a year and it's, and it's just old grandpa trucks, you know, have 50 or 60,000 miles of cherry. And my brother-in-laws do a good job of finding stuff in Vegas and, and thank them for that. And then, you know, for six, eight grand, you'd be amazed what you can buy and trash it and still come out. All right. You know? Yeah. People don't understand, man.

We put some hurt on those vehicles. Yeah. Yeah. There ain't no prep, no, no pride here. None of this, you know, jacked up, nice, fancy stuff. It's just, you're just too hard on them. So. Yep. Exactly. All right, guy. Well, I appreciate your time and that's awesome. I love talking about it, especially somebody that's passionate like you. I mean, I threw an outline to you two minutes before I talked to you and a lot of it is just because you don't freaking need an outline. You live in it and you're doing it and you can talk about it all day long. I know you can. Yeah, I can. And I, like you said, I truly, truly love it. I really do. And I hope that comes across like that when, when this thing airs. Yeah. Are you going to be out at the expo here in Utah? Um, yeah, I should be, man. I should go a lot harder with what I do because predator hunting is so big and I have a really

good brand and people support me and it's really cool. But man, talk about needing an investor.

Dude. It's hard on, it's hard on the budget. It's hard on the family and doing, doing what I do, but it is fun, but we'll probably see you up there. All right, Jason. I appreciate your time. Appreciate you, man. Thanks a lot. Yep. Talk to you later. All right. Yep. So let's talk about Outdoor Edge knives. We've partnered with Outdoor Edge. They've got some incredible knives coming out. We all like the razor knives. They're easy to change in and out. Just been awesome. They're a great partner of ours. We really appreciate them and what a great product. And so anyway, you can check out the different knives they offer at www.outdooredge.com or ask an Outdoor Edge dealer at your local sporting goods store. Epic Outdoors is a company where we concentrate on hunting information. For the Western U.S., Canada, Alaska, Mexico.

So we do produce a monthly magazine December through June and then bimonthly the remainder of the year when we're all out in the field. So anyway, it's nine issues a year. It's $100. And that is for the magazine as well as being able to call in and get hunting advice, consulting, whatever, whether it be tags, hunts, whatever you need as far as Western big game hunting. We also have a full service, license application service. This is for guys that just don't have the time to apply themselves. So while the basis of our business is draws throughout the West and obtaining tags, whether it be landowner tags or guaranteed tags through outfitters, we also have a license application service. And this is where we apply guys throughout all the Western states for big game species and acquire points, tags, and what have you. So anyway, that is an additional service above and beyond the $100.

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