EP 115: Applying in Colorado, Idaho, and Montana

Where are the deer wanting to be? Where are they going? We don't have a ton of tags as non-residents, but we do have specific allocated tags. We get asked a lot, should I apply for elk in Colorado? Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey, everybody. How are we going to open on this one? I think you just did it. Whatever you want. Just did it. He just did it. Hello? Hi. How are y'all? Hey, everybody. Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, along with John Peterson and Jeffrey. Jeffrey John. I always want to say your middle name, but I never get it right. As well as Chris Peterson sitting in the podcast room here in southern Utah. Cedar City full of snow. It's been snowing all night. Jeez. We're about to hide it. I put on there that it's spring, but apparently I was wrong. Chris gives us a cheat sheet that we don't really go by, but we probably should. Because we're a little rummy. So let's stick to the punk. Rummy? We're rummy? You guys each have your sounds. You two have the individual sound. Like Adam, when Adam's going into the sarcastic mode, he does a...

That loud sniff. I can't make that sniff line up. But Jason, yours is... What was it? Like... Like some kind of weird... Like you're sucking air through your teeth or something. I can't wait to get on, Jeff. And so every time I know... This podcast is all about Jeff. Every time I hear that happen over there, I'm like, we're going to hear something funny. Like I'm like... I'm like... I turn down my music. Whenever I hear Adam sniff, I turn down my music and I'm like... Okay. He does that. He does it. All right. Rummy. So anyway, we're right in the middle of constructing the April issue of the Epic Outdoors magazine. It's going to cover a lot of cool things.

Cranking out states like Nevada and Montana and Kansas and whatnot. So anyway, a lot of fun going on here. And we just thought we'd talk about the March issue. Before we get started, we want to thank Under Armour. We appreciate them and their support for sponsoring this podcast and being affiliated in most everything we do. So thank you to Under Armour. You can go to UA.com, order up all kinds of things. Swimming suits, hunting gear, whatever. You know what I mean? Whatever. Raider pants. Raider pants. Raider pants is what we're... Yeah, that's what we're... They're the best. Rich Reaper Raider, not Oakland Raider pants. All right. We're not Raiders fans here. Not Oakland Raider fans. All right. Not Las Vegas Raider fans either. That's right. No, that's a good point. All right. So anyway, we appreciate them.

And as we get started here, we just kind of want to crank through what's in the March magazine. But don't try not to be so boring and just basically go through. We got a few stories. I want to grind these guys out. Of course, they think they're going to grind me out. So we're going to see how this goes down. There is 150 pages, so we can't cover them all in an hour. Yeah, let's not do that. So as we get started, I don't know. We're right in the middle of applying, teasing each other about what we're going to be doing. Jeff, he spent a little time in Montana hunting elk up there on the general. Did it. That deadline. Let's just jump right into that. That deadline. That deadline is fast approaching. Yeah. If you are serious about hunting up there, you better get in. It's Friday. So 15th of March, that's for deer and elk only.

So the antelope, moose, sheep, and goat, bison, we'll cover that in later issues of the magazine. If you're interested in applying for Montana, you better get it in. The general season tags, not hard to get. One preference point will get you either the deer combo, the elk combo, or the deer elk combo. It's the special tags that are tough to get. They get bonus points for those. They square your points for those. So pretty unpredictable when you're going to get those for the most part, except for the archery elk especially. Those can get for non-residents every three to five years. Residents, a lot of times we're getting them every single year on that 900 cluster and some of the others. That's right. Hunting giants. Pretty crazy. Pretty good opportunity. But keep in mind, they have a points-only period in Montana.

You can do that during the summer to get a bonus point for the special draws or a preference point for the general draws if you don't apply for the general combinations since they first go around. That's right. So anyway, we do have a lot of guys that apply up there. It's a good backup plan. You've got to apply for the combo, whether it be deer combo, elk combo, or deer elk combo. And then you can apply for the limited entry hunts. If you don't get drawn on the limited entry hunts, you do have an option to turn those back for the general tags, meaning for an 80% refund if you do it by August 1st. So a lot of guys use that as a backup plan. And like we talked about, we kind of mentioned the 900 and some of these other units. A lot of those are private land mixed with public, and so you want to be able to be good on a GPS and mapping and whatnot. And of course, Jeff.

Or book a hunt with an outfitter. Yeah. Book a hunt with an outfitter. Yeah. Call us. Jeff, you went up there, hunted some block management. Dude, the block management. Yeah. We've talked about it before a little bit, but it's awesome. It really is. And there's a lot of different areas. Montana is super generous to archers, it feels like. Just so much country that's open. A lot of those block managements are also open. They might be open during the archery and closed during the rifle. So if you're an archery guy, and I'll be honest, I was up there for, what, four days? I didn't see another archery elk hunter. Now, I went late. I went late. Let me preface that. Early October sometime, right? Yeah. I think if you went in September, you'd see a lot more people. But the bulls were still rutting. I just didn't have good.

Well, and we even pushed you to go a little bit late because, you know, everybody goes home. So it does go from basically six weeks. Yeah. So it's pretty long, you know, basically six weeks. September 7th to October 20th with a bow. And a lot of people think as soon as the calendar flips into October, bulls are done rutting. And that's not the case. So you can be by yourself in early October. One of the first animals I ever saw Bronson kill was in Montana. Wow. We just jumped into that one, didn't we? At first. That was when we were kids. Huh? I don't know about kids, but it was 15 years ago. Yeah. Unit 700. Yeah. Northern. Well, I shouldn't say northern. North central. But south side of the Missouri River breaks. Jason and I riding together in a side-by-side just run onto a group of elk. Or was it just one? I don't remember. It was a long time ago. But I know. Let her fly.

Let's call it a plethora. Plethora of elk. Drilled them about 55 yards. He got out. Hook who? Then we looked at each other and I'm like. He walked over 20 yards and tipped over right in front of us. We're like, okay. I guess we're done. Montana is pretty good. Anyway. Just a six-point bull. But I don't remember how much time we had to hunt. You know, Jason. Jason is there. John, too. We had a good time up there. That was, I don't know, 10-plus years ago. Geez, man. A long time ago. That was probably, yeah, one of the first times we actually hunted together. Maybe 12, maybe 14 years ago. A lot of fun memories on those trips right there. Yep.

Itty-hoo. Moving right along. That's probably enough on Montana. The deadline is the 15th of March. It's a little bit of a frustrating state. It's fairly expensive, non-refundable. You know, if you're just going there to apply for some of the best units, there's only a couple of deer units that we really consider trophy units. And so, you know, it's one of those things you really do need to feel like you want to do it. You want to go there. You want to take it on. As far as working, you know, either you're going to be there with the grizzlies. You're going to be in the private. You're going to have to work a little bit and kind of, you know, basically want to go there. So, anyway, it's not necessarily for everyone, I guess is what I'm saying. But we do apply guys there. And, of course, we've hunted there a little bit ourselves. Yeah, they get you on the hook.

As a prerequisite, you've got to draw the deer-elk combo or the deer combo or elk combo to be eligible for the special draw. So they get you, and you're going to get 20% out of you on that if you apply in the first go-around. If you just did build points, it's a cheaper way to do it. Get a deer point or an elk point for $25 a piece until you get, you know, a handful of those built up. And then go try to use them and draw an archery elk tag. And you're probably going to get drawn rather quickly when you do that. And that's worth noting, I think, especially this year, what we've seen the odds jump around on the general, right? Yeah, not guaranteed. And you're not guaranteed to draw that. So it would be worth getting the preference point. And it is more expensive than the bonus point, but getting both the preference point and the bonus point. That's 100% right.

Yeah, especially if you're not thinking you're going to go for four or five years, okay, hold off on your preference point. But you do need a preference point in your possession when you apply for a general tag to guarantee that. So make sure if you're a year out of thinking when you're going to want to try to draw this summer, get a preference point for that. So let's talk about Colorado. Let's talk about big bucks. Let's talk about everything that's in Colorado. Okay, sounds good. Yeah, as we get going here in the publication, we kind of did start this off with just a little bit of a trophy room from a lot of our staff here. Not everybody, but a few of our staff members. And so anyway, just some of the deer we've killed in Colorado over the years. And so, John, I think there's a picture in here that looks like you're about 10 years old.

Good grief. Speaking of somebody's first, literal first hunt of their life, was that it, John? Yeah, that's my concern. Was that your first deer baby? Mule deer. No. That's a pretty nice mule deer for a first mule deer. That's impressive. Oh, you were young. I mean, that was before I knew you, of course. Did you have a driver's license? Yeah. I looked like your baby's age. Were you married? 24, 26, something like that. Yeah. So that was after the introduction to the Carter family. Yes, it was. Oh, what an introduction that was. And Jeff. Jeff. Dude, I look pretty young there, too. I'm wrong. This is that same buck we do, too. I tell you, that was 30 pounds ago. This is it. Oh, geez, at least. It looks like one of our- Of course, I've got a few pictures in here that I was a little lighter, too. That's it. I'm getting it. I'm getting it.

That one there on the far right there, one of our epic-approved outfitters, Tony Grimmett, would be proud of that picture, Jeff. Yeah. Because I'm wearing a white shirt? Yeah. White t-shirt. I've got a white t-shirt, man. Killed your big buck in a white shirt. What was the scoop behind that? I had a jacket on at the time. Oh, good. I mean, the jacket came off because all of a sudden, well, of course, you're seeing Colorado third season. It was not a cold, wet, miserable year that year, obviously. I think I t-shirted up there. Seems like you were in and around some subdivisions down there. That's exactly where I was. So you're in the middle of civilian clothes, knocking on doors, asking for permission to shoot a buck in their backyard. That's what I'm saying. Not quite that, but it's close. I mean, that's the thing.

In Colorado, you better be on your game because the private land is a big deal. Yeah, the burden's on the hunter. That doesn't have to be even posted. Yeah. It doesn't have to be cultivated. It just has to be deeded, and you've got to be off. These map companies have made an entire business out of just dealing with Colorado. Out of Colorado, honestly. Chris, I'm looking at him in a freaking 200-incher. Bronson's 200-incher back in the day. And you look young, too, Bronson. That was old. That was old school. Second choice. Did you have hair? I don't know. It was fading pretty hard. It was fading pretty hard by then. Yeah. 2004. Then he got kids. He got kids, and then it just disappeared. Yeah. At least that guy with the big beard. Where? Where? Oh, I'm in there somewhere. Yeah, with that. Where's that one? What buck is that? That one right there. That was the same year I killed my elk.

Remember that year? Yeah. That's right. It was just one of those stretches in the fall that went two, three weeks of hard grinding hunting hunts and guiding in between a little bit of hunting. And once you cross a point of no return on where the blade will no longer shave your beard, you just got to let her go. Just letting go. When you're out in a camp trailer somewhere and your beard's too long for a blade, you just got to let it go. And that was a two-month go that time. It's like it's painted on with a Sharpie. It's that black. I know. It is black. When Adam grows his beard out, he all of a sudden is a different person. Like, I saw him after. I hadn't seen him for a couple years, and I ran into you down on sheep hunting. Was it? Was it that year? That was that year, wasn't it? Was it that year? Oh, it was that year. You come walking up. I'm like, I have no idea who that is.

Your brother had his tag that year. Yes. Because that's the year I went over and shot my elk and come back and then went over and hunted deer. Who is that? I mean, I'll be honest. He could give Baird or Roundy a run for a beard, Joe, right there, huh? And his wife, she gets hearts and stars in her eyes every time he grows it out. So, anyway. Yeah. That doesn't happen very often for me to grow it out. Kind of itches. But, anyway, a lot of good bucks right there. We've spent a lot of time in a lot of different units, and so Colorado is one of our favorite states, honestly. We pretty much spend time there every year and give each other a hard time on what we're thinking to do with leftover choices or tags and points and weapon types, actually. We always flirt with doing something in September, but we never have the time. Yeah. Huh? Antelope, too. Yeah, Jason. That's a nice segue.

Jason's going to use his antelope points this year. Are you going to burn them? I'm going to burn them. That'll be filmed for an episode of something to be determined. Coming soon. I've got a load. I'm not going. I'm not going. So, let's jump into the changes, though. There's some big changes. There was a big old buck killed us. Oh, sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off on your antelope talk. Go ahead. Go ahead. No. Jump into it. There's a lot of big changes in Colorado. That's the biggest thing. We are pretty high strung when it comes to deer in Colorado. We love to kind of orchestrate our fall plans around hunting deer in Colorado to every extent possible, whether it be leftover, turn back, landowner, draw tags, all of the above. But, Jason, why don't you jump in, I guess. Yeah, let's jump in.

Tell us about the biggest changes, about the application process and fees for some of these species. Yeah, they do make it to where we have to buy an $81, some change, small game hunting licenses, non-residents to be able to apply. And then you've got a $100 point fee for the sheep, goat, and moose. And so, anyway, you are going to have to apply. A lot of guys are asking if it's worth it, and we definitely think it's worth it, you know, especially for guys that already have three preference points. And so if you have three preference points, that's the most points you can get for those species. And then it turns into a weighted bonus point system after that. So, and that's just for sheep, goat, and moose. And so, anyway, definitely worth it as far as we're concerned and as far as looking at the overall investment considering other states and drawing odds. And that's the biggest thing.

We get a lot of these, you know, we get a lot of these questions. And so, anyway, that's the short answer. Yes, it's worth it. But having said that, you know, a lot of guys are sweating it just a little bit because if you apply for all the species and you do it for a few family members, you're going to be out a little bit of cash. Yeah. Well, and last year, you know, Colorado for until 2018, they required you to do a paper application and send two grand a pop for sheep, moose, and goat applications in a check up front. So it was a big deterrent for a lot of people to start applying. That and the fact that, like you said, you had to first accrue three preference points before you're even in the draw. It just turned people off. And then last year, it went to about as polar opposite of that as you could get. A $10 habitat stamp and then a $3 application fee per species.

The whole free world jumped in for sheep, moose, and goat applications last year. So if you're part of that group, just be aware. It's going to be quite a bit more expensive. Everybody, of course, freaked out. Drawing odds went through the roof or at least the number of applicants. Obviously, you're not even in the draw until you have three. But because preference, you get preference over the next guy. And since three is the max you can get, there's thousands of people with three. A lot of people jumped in. And so this, I know, it was an overreaction, I guess, to some extent. I wish they would have probably rethought how they were going to go from a paper and money up front application to the new system a little better. Last year, like I said, a lot of people got in, got their one point when it was cheap. And now I guess you'll have a decision whether you want to do that,

whether you want to invest $100 for sheep or moose or goat for at least two more years before you're even in the draw a couple years, two, three years from now. So something to consider. Yeah, kind of crazy. But it was Colorado's answer, you know, everybody whined. And so this was their answer. Now everybody's whining about the fees. And so what do you do? It was archaic, so to speak, to be able to have to continue to write checks. Black capital letters, black ink only, number 11 envelope. Number 10 or 9 or whatever in black and caps. And, I mean, it was just like, really? And that's just for the computer to read it. And I get all that, but it was needed. Change was needed. But never a perfect system, and I guess every state's different. And so we just kind of roll with what they decided to do. Anyway, so having said that, you can apply. You're not limited.

You can apply for sheep, goat, moose, deer, antelope, elk, and everything. So everything is due by April 2nd. They did change the time. The time is 8 p.m., Mountain Standard Time. Interesting. Anyway. Odd time, but there it is in print. Somebody didn't get enough sleep last year, and they just said, heck with this. We're going to do 8. We're not at 8. How about that? Not midnight. I've got to put my kids down. So anyway, if they're a good dad. Huh? All right. So as you go forward, we do talk about in this publication, the elk, the deer, the antelope, they are on a preference point system. No weighted points for those. Guys with the most points win, who apply. It doesn't mean you have to have max to get tags. It just means whoever applies, whoever gets the most points, they divvy out tags, start with that guy, and go on down. So anyway, kind of interesting. There is the hybrid draw.

Everybody gets all excited about it, Bronson. We get a ton of questions about the hybrid draw. Non-residents should ignore that that even exists. Yeah. With the exception, we did have a buddy. Antelope is different. Because there's no non-resident quota with antelope. Yeah. But they say non-resident quotas pertain to the hybrid draw, meaning they're going to run through the regular draw. 20% or 35%, depending on the unit, going to non-residents. And when you do the preference point draw first, we dominate. We dominate. You're the point, Chase. So we've already met our quota. And so we're never in that. And they do, of course, forces corralis lists, so to speak, in specific hunt codes, most of which are, you know, a lot of which are ranching for wildlife and whatnot. So we can't apply this non-residents for ranching for wildlife. So anyway, it's a moot point.

Other than antelope, like you said, you do have to have accrued five bonus points to be eligible for a hybrid draw. And if you do and you want to put down one of those antelope units like 30301 or something like that, we have had members and clients of ours, licensed app clients, draw units in the hybrid draw for antelope that are non-residents. It has happened. We do know that. So anyway. But anyway. One big update online is in all members' accounts. If you're a member of Epic Outdoors, you can log on and get on our hunt planner. And we've got extensive odds on there. Let's say we've got minimum point search, which is awesome. If you've got three points, it'll pull up a list of all the deer units that you can draw. I do want to talk about that pretty extensively. Adam and I and Jeff, we consult a lot of people on a daily basis. And up in our browser, we have the minimum points query.

We have the points on there. You can drop and drag, point and click, you're way to a giant buck. And so anyway, we do have that. And so you can go see. If you have four points, boom, this is what I can draw. If you have five points, this is what I can draw. Ten points, this is what I can draw. We also have a mapping system on there with overlays and all kinds of things that you can kind of do a lot of e-scouting, which is all exciting for these new millennial kids. So anyway, hasn't killed a big deer for me yet, but it is a nice feature. You can go on and kind of check out the units you're looking to apply for, no matter what the species is, and check it out. So there's a lot of different features to that. Yeah, and I had a guy yesterday specifically talking about Montana. He wants to go hunt eastern, southeastern part of the state.

And he wanted to be able to know where the best place is to buy maps that he could get a hold of some maps that showed public and private land. Well, I just said, jump on our hunt planter. He had never even been on there. He was a member. He had a username and password. Got him on there, showed him how to do it. I said, get on there, zoom in to whatever extent you want. It starts popping up. Turn on the layers. He was blown away. So that's a feature we started here the first of the year, but it might be new. Most people may not think that we have that. A lot of different states have a hunt planter feature unique to their state. We brought it to all the states so that you can look, switch species. Some of the states have different unit maps for different species, and so you need to be prepared for that.

But other things that you can do on there, you can look at block management stuff in Montana, things like that. Turn on that layer. You look at the private, public overlay. And like we talked about a minute ago, for Colorado, it's pretty critical. You can look at Colorado, they've actually provided some layers about winter range habitat. You know, critical deer winter range habitat, which I don't know how many times we've used those maps in the past to key in on areas that we're going to for the first time in Colorado. And just looking about third season or fourth season and you don't have time to scout, where are the deer wanting to be? Where are they going? So, yeah, we do have overlays where you have migratory patterns, you've got the winter ranges like Adam's talking about. That would be where I would be during the third and fourth seasons.

You're talking November 2nd to the 10th for the third deer and elk, as well as November 13th to the 17th for the fourth season rifle. So, you know, you're going to be on the winter ranges, you know, and obviously weather plays a big part. You get some weather, they're definitely going to be there, but they're always there anyway in a little bit. So, anyway, what a great feature. That's actually, you know, in large part how, you know, when I go over to Colorado and hit new units and we always, all of us here in this room have hunted new units. That's a great place to start. In fact, it's where you should start, second, third, or fourth rifle seasons. Even the second, those deer wanting to move to the winter ranges or have, depending on the weather. So, anyway, great opportunities there. You know, we kind of skipped over the sheep real quick. We do, it's pretty in-depth.

We don't have a ton of tags as non-residents, but we do have specific allocated tags to non-residents to apply for. So, it gives us our own set of drawing odds and we compete against each other without having to wonder, like in some states, which tags, you know, which units will actually draw as non-residents. So, that's kind of nice. Yeah, it is. And it's one of the unique states, too, that does give archery Rocky Mountain Bighorn tags. The only one that gives designated archery tags for sheep, as well as a goat. Give a goat archery tag. Utah is starting to do that this year, 2019. They did that, so it's not truly unique to Colorado and the goats. But a good, really good sheep and goat state. You do have to get over some of those mental obstacles, I guess, the cost to apply, building three points before you're in the draw. But that's for everybody else. Everybody decided to themselves.

If you do want to apply, they do give one non-resident desert sheep tag a year, and there's no points associated with that. We had a great story in this magazine with the gentleman that drew that tag last year. Killed an awesome, cool ram. Zach Schoeker drew the only non-resident desert sheep tag last year in Colorado. And somebody's going to get it. It's not just a statistic. It's been a couple years running that one of our members have drawn that. Pretty much. We've drawn a lot of tags. Our members have drawn a lot of tags up there in Colorado. I don't just, I mean, we do have a lot of serious hunters as clients, and we appreciate that. We like working with guys that are serious about getting tags. Having said that, I do want to just throw a little bit of plug. We talk about the expense of it. It's kind of the price of doing business.

If you love to hunt, you're going to have to outlay some cash in these different states, and you've got to have your name in as many hats as you can afford to be in. And we've talked about the odds and what they're worth. And, you know, is it worth it for, you know, Wyoming for 220-plus non-refundable dollars to be in there for one in 350 drawing-ons? And, Adam, I mean, you and I say yes or no depending on the year and how rich we feel that year. If we've got a kid, you know, needing a car or something. I don't know. It's left and right pretty much right now on that. So, yeah, but it's one that I'll keep doing. I drew a goat early on in my, I guess, early 2003 or something, I drew a goat in Montana. So I haven't, I didn't get in on the goats in Colorado. I would have if I needed one. Goats for me are more like a one or two in your life, and that's fine.

And sheep, I mean, in a lot of places that may not make sense, and I just tell people you apply and forget about it. I mean, you think about drawing, you daydream about it, but you really just kind of forget about sheep applications to a large extent. Also, the third species there is moose, and I know that's the species Jason's pretty fond of in Colorado. Could you talk about that? You're a jerk.

No, we're going to leave that for another podcast. However, they do have big moose so guys can apply, and then you can also swap out your tag. You get a rifle tag, you swap it out for, so funny. Swap it out for archery or muzzleloader or vice versa. So, anyway, yeah, I've drawn a fair share of my tags. And so, anyway, we are living proof that they do divvy out tags to non-residents. It doesn't matter the state. We've definitely, you know, but we have spent our time gaining points. And a lot of it is times. I've had guys call me and say, dude, is this worth it? Here's the deal. You can buy points, but you cannot buy time. And I know I get it. Points take time. I get all that. But you don't want to be looking back saying, I wish I should have done it. For the last 10 years. I'm not looking back at the money I didn't spend last year. I mean, it's gone.

I've got a new budget this month or whatever. You know what I mean? And you're not thinking about it. And, Jeff, dude, you freaking, you've drawn some tags. You drew a Henry tag randomly. I drew a Henry tag randomly. Okay, Henry's deer. I drew a Rocky tag randomly. You've drawn Rocky Mountain sheep here in Utah randomly. Yeah. You know what I mean? I drew the Arizona tag this last year randomly. Adam, he's drawn Oregon sheep randomly. And it's an expensive raffle. Like, you know you go into it as a pure, you know, like you said, like Adam said, you're putting the money and you're walking away. You're thinking, I just made my donation to the state. Whatever. Walking away. But, you know, sometimes lightning strikes, you know. But you need to be in as many of those, you know, buckets as you can get your name in just to be able to draw anything.

So, even though I get it, I get it, it's a hard pill to swallow. But, you know, you talk to these guys, we just got done with Utah here a week or whatever ago. And it's like, you know, for the cost of a, like a footlong sandwich, your name is in for a mountain goat. Your name is in for, you know what, and so just get your name in that. Well, I've never heard of that comparison. Depends on where you're dying. Well, yeah, you know. Just depends on where you're dying. Well, you go to, you know, you go to a certain, I didn't want to mention. Oh, yeah. We're not getting paid. Yeah, we're not getting paid. You mean like Jimmy John's or Subway. Jimmy John's or Subway. It's 10 bucks. Yeah. There you go. Get your name in the hat. Free plugs. Free plugs. But anyway, and so, yeah, as we move into the deer and elk and whatnot, we do have guys saying, well, I've got six points. I want to utilize them.

And what's the best thing I can do? And we, of course, there's things that we look at, you know, and this is what we would do. And have you considered this for second, like a 44 second versus a such and such third versus a such and such fourth? There's opportunity. What have you say to that? You got to be ready to battle people and numbers. You mean in the state as a whole? You're there. Yeah. In the state as a whole. Yeah. Anywhere you go. And you got the, not on the fourth like you did, but we found it second and third plenty. And you got over the counter elk hunters and that throws a lot of people off guard. You're not sharing the mountain just with deer hunters in Colorado. There's a lot of orange. That's just, that's the way they do it. We did put a few units in there that are limited, extremely limited for elk and deer both, but very few.

And those units are going to take a lot of points to draw. So Chris, you've tried multiple units in Colorado. I have. I've kind of bounced around, especially the last few years. I just like to learn new places. And maybe every five, six years you find some place that you really like and you go back a couple of times. But yeah. Well, I think with our strategy of trying to hunt Colorado as much, deer, as much as possible, you're hitting units that aren't the top units. And so bouncing around is, you know, you learn new units and you might find a gem and then, you know, come back to it a couple of years or whatnot. It is a question that I and 15,000 other listeners want to know is where are you guys going? I don't know yet. I don't know yet this year. You're full of crap. I don't yet. I know I'm definitely not going to 18, but I haven't decided yet where I'm going to put in in Colorado.

It's just one of those. Well, actually, maybe I have. Oh. Yeah, I have. Wow. Breaking news. I'll tell you guys later.

We're going to need to run the queries on the hunt ladder and make sure you can draw. I think I'll draw. What about you, Jeff? Oh, I don't have a solid plan yet. Just November's hard this year again. More than likely. Tell us about that. You've got it. Tell us about that 183-inch you smoked a while back. Oh. You know when the bullets were whizzing over our heads? I think everybody has to. And me and Jason experienced this, both like our Idaho hunt this last year, too. Like, we're kind of used to dealing with, in Utah, we're used to dealing with so many people. We are used to it, right? Like, and so if you are not used to dealing with that many other hunters, Colorado's going to crush you. These units are going to crush you. It's going to be hard on you. But we're kind of, like, we've dealt with it long enough. We get it.

Like, we get that we're going to be snaking a buck out of several other hunters. There's going to be people walking by. You're going to be, you know what I mean? Like, we're kind of to that point. People setting up right in front of you. People setting up right in front of you. I can't tell you how many times I've been to Colorado, and I pulled up to a truck, and they've got their setup out there. There's their shooting bench. They've got a gun out there. They've got some big, almost looks like on the NFL, when you go in there for the review, they're looking at the replay official. It's some kind of a military-type rangefinder. Jason doesn't know what that is, because he doesn't know I ever watch football. It's a rangefinder that's, like, probably black market or Russian-made or something like that that's giant. And they're looking at something like 1,400, 1,600 yards away.

Now, this was 10, 12 years ago before we had those that are the size of a, you know, cell phone, like we do now. That's right. But they're like, whoa, this is going to... And all they're doing is popping cow elk at, like, 1,400 yards with their setup. And I've done that multiple times. You just put it up there and break a sandwich out, and you're watching these dudes, hey, a little bit higher, you know, and they're just walking it in. The elk don't even know they're being shot at, pretty much. And you've got to be prepared for a little bit of that in Colorado. It's just, it is what it is. There was one point John and I laid down on the ground this year. No way. I'm not kidding. Was that when the elk ran by you? Yeah, there was a bull. There was a bull that it didn't know we were there, and it ran right up into the saddle we're sitting in, and there's guys shooting at it.

We're like, at least it's my dick. And you guys are an orange, right? Yeah. Yeah, but we couldn't see them, but we could hear the bullets coming. So we just... You proned out. John, stand up.

Show them your orange. Just wave the flag. Put it on a stick and wave it. A bull came within like 30 yards of us probably. Yeah. Jeez. Did they kill it? No. No. Wow. They shot a lot. They missed it a lot. Wow. So yeah, you've got to be prepared for a little bit of that in Colorado. Now, if you're listening to this saying, geez, Colorado's not for me, there are places. There are other places, too. If you... They may take you building up a few more points, or you have to maybe target units like, you know, 61 or 66 or 7. Units that are 40. Places where they have a controlled number of elk and dead hunters there at the same time. That's generally where you have a... That's where I've seen the biggest relief feel like, okay, this feels more like a limited entry hunt versus a Utah general season hunt. Yeah. Well, right on. I agree with all that. And... I do have a question.

I might be hunting a second season this year, which I have never done in Colorado. I've always done third and fourth seasons. That means you're skipping out on Utah. What's your question? General. General. Possibly. But you can hunt. You're dedicated. I don't know. You can hunt archery, muzzle in Utah if you need to. So you said you had a question. So my question is, how do you hunt that differently?

Oh.

Well, I will say this, that I think that a lot of second seasons are way underrated. Now, if you're going to go onto something that you're going to draw with zero points, which I think you have, John. I don't remember. I have zero points. I think you drew last year. Couldn't remember if you got that or a leftover tag, turn back tag. Then you're probably going to be somewhere that has a lot of tags. If you're getting something with zero points in Colorado, for the most part, you're not there all by yourself. So it's a little bit tougher. But some years, the last two years, for instance, second season's got the first snow of the year right during it. And it's flocked the trees white. The bucks start moving a little bit. Even though they're not rutting, they just start changing their behavior. And they're way undervalued, in my opinion, just like the muzzleloaders are.

Even though you got different muzzleloader restrictions in Colorado, you know, open sites, no sabbats, loose powder, blah, blah, blah. They're still way undervalued, in my mind, for people that can, you know, conform to that muzzleloader equipment. Yeah. I agree 100%. So as far as different, I don't know, John, you're going to glass your way to success in Colorado. You just are. So I would just spend time. You're going to have to, a lot of guys don't like to road hunt. I get it. But, you know, you got to cover the numbers. And some units, you can do that. Some, you don't. If you don't want to road hunt, go to unit 54 and hike your guts out. Well, and a lot of times on the third, you know, you're looking for does. Yeah. And the bucks will show up. Yeah. Just in case you're looking for bucks where they're living. Yeah. Yeah. They might. And they start to migrate and whatnot.

So, yeah, a little bit more like that. I mean, you're hunting a deer that's generally, it's right at that point where they're either, if you get a high pressure camped on you in a second season, it could be pretty tough. Yeah. You're pretty much going to be a frustrating hunter. You know, if you get the first couple crisp snow events or cold events of the year, it just starts changing these deer. They start walking around more. They know what's coming. It's just, it's always about then. Sometimes it doesn't happen until the third season, but the last couple of years it's happened during the second season. And they've been, for all accounts, as good or better than the thirds in many units. I love second. I love second. I like being one of the first rifle hunters there. But if, like Adam says, if it's hot and dry, shoot the first forky with eye guard you see. Okay?

If you get the weather, it might kill a four point. Okay? All right. Moving right along. We've talked a lot about deer. And obviously, the reason for that is that it's a draw statewide for deer. You've got archery, muzzle, some early high country rifle hunts, two or three later season rifle hunts, a lot of options for deer. When it comes to elk, though, we get asked a lot, should I apply for elk in Colorado? And it doesn't take long. You just come to work this time of year, one day, and you realize how big of a log jam there is in the elk points chase. It's just unbelievable. There's really, I don't know of another state like it, any species in any state. They just don't draw enough quality. When I mean, say quality, I mean we're talking to hunt 350 plus bulls or 370 plus bulls. Yeah, there's guys that are 25 or 6 points that still can't command the draw in any of

the best units in Colorado. And even when they do, a 350 bull, that's a big bull. So it's not on par with an Arizona, Nevada, Utah, all that. And the big bottleneck just creates a lot of people building points for elk without as many places to use them. And we try to give, obviously we highlight the better units in the state from our perspective. But there's a lot of other places in the state that we didn't cover. The first season, the muzzleloader, the first season, and the fourth season for elk are all draw, even on the units that give over the counter tags. If you're looking for a little bit of an edge, something that's not just over the counter, you might look at a first season bull or a fourth season bull somewhere if you're just wanting to go elk hunting with a little bit less hunting pressure. But the simple fact is, if you're a trophy elk hunter, Colorado is probably not going to

be a list that you really look at applying for. We've got a lot of guys that are applying for trophy deer and not even applying for a point in Colorado for elk. And it makes sense. And so anyway, just consider that as you get started. However, we recommend applying for elk. You're going to want to hunt at some point in your life. And if you're buying that $81 license, it's cheap anyway to go ahead and get a point for elk. And so we recommend that. One thing I did want to cover for Colorado. There was a time in our lives, early 2000, we didn't know hardly anything about Colorado. It was actually before they actually managed. The deer came on strong. And so there was just a few kind of hot spots, 2161 in the eastern plains. There was just a few of those. And so you didn't have to, you know, you didn't feel like you were missing out by not knowing stuff in Colorado.

Then we just started going. As these units got better, Gunnison namely, and some of these other units got better, we started going to Colorado. Anybody that hasn't really spent a lot of time in Colorado, don't let it intimidate you. You've got to just start going. Just going. You've just got to go. And once you start going, you're going to want to go there every year. It's one of those things. There's an opportunity for you every single year. They do have turn back tags. Those don't go against your points. If you draw second, third, or fourth choices, those don't go against your points. And so, you know, you can still gain a point. Meaning if you don't draw your first choice, you gain a point. Well, and you do have to bear in mind the way they do their draw that you can't draw something as a second choice that wasn't guaranteed for all those first choice applicants for that unit.

So, you know, if there's 100 units or 100 tags in the unit and there was only 75 first choice applicants, that means 25 of those tags will carry over to second or third choice. So, it's not like a New Mexico or a Nevada where they go through your three or five choices and see what you get. No, you got lucky and you got your third choice. Oh, you still get to build points. It's not like that. But still, with a little bit of research, use the Hunt Planner online. We do have a few options that we obviously covered in the magazine as well. If you want to go to Colorado in a year, you can force your way to Colorado somehow. That's my point. Yep. Just go spend some time out there. Anyway, you can kill big bucks on these second choice tags. I drew a second choice tag. Yes, absolutely. I drew a second choice. I didn't know. Okay. No, geez, yes, I agree. I concur. All right.

I drew a second choice tag last year and so I gained a point and I decided I didn't want to use it. So, I returned it for a refund. It cost me nothing to have the second choice tag and then I could pick up a landowner tag or a turnback tag. Turnback tags are given pretty periodically. Generally, if I remember right, it's Monday through Thursday. Early August. Yeah, Fridays actually. Tuesday through Fridays starting like 9 a.m. or whatever. But anyway, and they crank through the seasons. All the way through September and October. If you have the ability to be vigilant of that, you can do that. It's a little bit hard, frustrating, I guess, to sit and grab the tag you're waiting for. But it's an option. You've got to be vigilant at it. But it's, you know, they don't call a list like Utah and other states do.

If you're the alternate, on certain units that they do, if it's over a certain number of points. But on other units, they just hit the leftover list within, you know, several days after somebody turns one in and goes live online and it gets gobbled up fast or sometimes not. Sometimes stayed for a day or two last year. And if you haven't heard us say, every year we see big deer come out of quote-unquote bad units in Colorado. If you're there, you got a chance. Yeah, and that's one thing I was going to mention is when it comes to, yeah, we're talking about these second choice tags. They're second choice for a reason. They didn't get picked up on the first round for a reason. And that could be lots of private ground. That could be lots of hunters, you know, these little things. But that doesn't mean they're bad hunts either.

You know, like the unit that you guys, that Chris and John drew last year, you know, that's one that you're, that a lot of second choice guys do on the earlier hunts. It's really a pretty good hunt if you consider that you're still building a point and you're getting a tag. You know, guys are killing 180 inch deer on that hunt. Like it's possible. A few guys. A few guys. Yeah. But there's just issues with it. You know what I mean? There's just issues. And you just have to mentally digest that. Not one you're wanting to go back to every year. You're afterwards. You're filling a gap for the year. But you're there. You're in the field. You're hunting. We do have guys that want 200 inch deer with an outfitter. And I got 20 points. Tell me where to go. And I got that going on right now. We will say there's very few, the way they just, the Forest Service won't issue permits

to a lot of these guys. So some of the best units in the state don't have a licensed outfitter in them. And so it's difficult. It is very difficult to find an outfitter for big deer on public land in Colorado. And for being the mecca that it is for mule deer, it's a pain in the butt to find the right outfitter. Well, that and the fact that I think a lot of people from the early 2000s, like you talked about through 2008 or 2009 when, you know, that heavy winter of seven and eight hit, things were so ripe that everybody's mind was just crazy over Colorado. And it was. It was some of the best deer hunting I've had in my life during that period. A lot of people are holding on to those days, even though tag numbers have increased. We are too. And certain units have moderated. There's just a lot of good to average and even on the high end good deer hunts in Colorado now.

Not as many elite, you know, hold out for as long as it takes for this tag. There's not as many of those. And I'm surprised every day that I take calls, the people that call me and say they have 18 to 20 plus points for deer. And I just think, where have you been? And I said, what have you been applying for? Well, I mean, they've just been building points. And I'm thinking, man, you've missed, you've missed a lot. You've missed the heyday and you've missed one or two times since that, you know? So for the most part, go to Colorado more frequently. That's take home message. Yeah. They're waiting for a unit 44 tag. I get it. Love it. Would want a 44 tag myself. The year you go, it's hot and dry and you freaking can't find 180 incher. I mean, now you've got 20, 25 points, whatever invested into this. And what do you got to show for it? But I am going to talk about a new advertiser with us.

But as I do, I want maybe John or Jeff pick a story about Colorado before we leave it. We can't just freaking crush statistics. I want to hear a story, a hunting story, because you guys are freaking funny. But here we go. We do have a new advertiser here with Epic Outdoors. It's Extreme Outer Limits and MOA rifles. Super good guys there. We've known them for quite some time. We've flirted with each other a little bit about running an ad, if you want to say it. We don't just bring on anybody here at Epic Outdoors. And so anyway, you can find their double-page spread. It's on about page 62 and 63 of the Colorado issue, which is March of the Epic Outdoors. Anyway, they are promoting a rifle that's a true half-minute MOA, thousand-yard mountain-type rifle at under 6 pounds. So incredible opportunity. We've held this. Adam, you and I have held this rifle ourselves.

Anyway, it should be awesome. You can get a hold of MOA rifles at moarifles.com or 541-526-1820. They sell a lot of different things, bipods, bullets. They load for you. They sell optics. You know, everything. Everything that has to do with shooting and long-range shooting. So anyway, good guys there. And you might visit with a guy named Bob Beck. Just tell him we sent you and see what he has to say. But super good guys. He's killed a lot of animals at long-range and done it quite ethically. He's good at what he does. And so anyway, call and visit him. And how about a story? You guys got something for us? Oh, jeez. Well, I don't know. I used a lot of my stories when Chris and I did that podcast on Colorado. So not too far ago or pretty recently, Chris and I had a lot. So you can go listen to that one for some of Chris and I's adventures and mishaps in Colorado.

Is there somebody you want to hear from? Bronson? There's another one that is just kind of funny. It's when Kurt and I went to 63. I thought you were going to talk about the infamous Wyoming antelope. I tried to hunt that one of these days. We're not talking about Wyoming. The Wyoming antelope. I don't know if we'll talk about that. You caped that antelope with a shovel, if I remember right. Or was that an elk? No, I can't even remember. That was an animal. No, that was a different story.

All right. You got anything good for us? No, just the funny thing was on that 63, there was so much private. And you drive around and the deer standing in the fence. Remember those? Didn't there were that like cardboard or plywood signs out in the fence? Like, don't look at these deer. You can't shoot them or something like that. Yeah, drive by. And the deer, middle of the day, standing up, feeding next to the sign. I remember those signs. Yeah. I remember that. And then you hit public land, and there's not a deer in sight. So how did you, what tips and tricks can you give the listeners? Oh, man. On that one. That was a grind, if I remember. Yeah. That was a grind. And it seems like just keep going. Keep at it. Because a hunt that just sucks, and it seems like it always sucks before you kill. But especially there, like, we did not see a four-point in five days. Come on. Until we shot.

You kicked one up, right? It was like a 190. Then you went from zero to hero in about five minutes. Right. And it was 190, four-point. It was a big buck. Dude, it was heavy. Heavy points. Man. Tell us about how you found the deer, because that, to me, is pretty cool. Like, there's so many people and so much pressure, but it just shows us how Colorado can turn around and, yeah. Yeah. Well, I had hunted that unit, oh, probably five years before. And the first time I went, there were deer everywhere, and we had good weather, and nobody was off the roads. Everybody was road hunting. I mean, like, high rack type. Come on. Pickup trucks were full. Everybody had their rifles, you know, pointing out. People were just driving the roads. And so, it was pretty good. Got off the roads, and you found deer. And then I went back with Kurt, and every ravine had boot tracks in it, just pounded.

So, you know, over a five-year period, just the way people were hunting that unit, you know, just changed drastically. But Kurt glassed that deer up, and he was hiding under a bush.

Kurt was hiding under a bush? Kurt was hiding under a bush, huh? A deer was hiding under a bush. Really? And he's like, I think I see a deer. And he was hiding, and we were close to it. Wow. Really close. He was hiding. He was laying flat. He was laying flat. Chin on the ground. Yeah, chin on the ground, and just had his rack kind of in the tree. You know? Just smart. Anyway, Kurt saw him, and he jumped him up. Didn't he jump it up? Jumped him up and shot. Pa-pa-pa-pa-pa. Yeah. Shot the last breeder buck in the unit. Yep. Jeez. So just keep after it, even though you're seeing people everywhere. Yeah, that happened to you last year about, but you were 15 minutes into your hunt, roughly, or a couple hours. Oh, jeez. You pounded a 206-incher. I mean. And then we grinded it for five days. On your tag. Thinking it was going to happen again, and it didn't.

But just, that's another example of one deer in the right spot, and your hunt's over, and it's, you're singing the praises of something. You know, last year was tough. The entire west was under a drought, and it was just tough. I thought, in my mind, you know, I thought Colorado's somewhat immune to droughts. It's just a higher elevation, lots of feed, foliage everywhere. It's like the Garden of Eden, and, you know, ended up being dry and miserable and tough. And, you know, in that unit, we just saw a lot of dinks, okay? Plain and simple. And I mean. Not even tempters. No, like two-and-a-half-year-old bucks. Yeah, not even. You know, lots and lots of them, right? I never got my gun, never put a bullet in my gun, or put my, looked through my scope at a buck on the whole hunt. Called me on the phone. You were texting me. Looking at a pretty good deer. And this is what I was thinking.

Was that the last night or second to last night? Second to last night, wasn't it? That's what I thought. Yeah, second to last night. The last night, you helped the gal. Or the last morning. Oh, that was the morning, yeah. The morning. But anyway, I mean, and when you guys were talking about numbers of people, I mean, Bronson's sitting there. We're getting ready. We're going to pound this deer. And, of course, when I get there, I'm like. I get more excited. He's only five minutes. He's only five minutes from me by drive in vehicle. Yeah. You know, he's two, three miles away, you know, roughly glassing some other stuff. Yeah. I'm glassing some other stuff. Bronson and I are tag teaming. His tag is left. And so we're just working it hard. You know what I mean? And so we're covering the numbers. That's what you do. And, I mean, anyway, this buck's out there.

And pretty soon, it's like one of those things. Rotting hard. Lip girl in. You see him, and then you don't. And there was a pumpkin underneath of us, and we didn't see it. And he pounded that deer. And, I mean, and they're out there looking for it. And we're watching them, you know, go back and forth. And we don't see where it drops because Bronson turned to me to say something, and we couldn't find the deer again. At least I never did see the deer alive. No. Oh, you didn't. Yeah, I had to show you the phone scope. Speaking about, let's give old Cheston a plug. Bronson, take her away. Well, yeah. And, you know, I just got a new phone, so I got to order me another one. But at 1-800-790-4480, phone scope pretty much has revolutionized the digiscoping industry to be able to use your camera on your phone to capture whatever it is you're after, whether it's sheep, deer, elk, antelope, birds.

You know, I know there's a whole bird watching phone scope following as well. I've seen that on the people that just like to take pictures of birds or whatever else. But anyway. He's got a whole car dedicated to birding. He does. Yeah, the wrap and everything. I'm like, really? Come on. The Tweety bird car. Get back to hunting, Cheston. Get back to hunting. Anyway. But give them a call or visit them on the web at phonescope.com, spelled P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P-E.com. So, great product. Great product. Good dude. So, yeah, anyway, that's our Colorado story. We got a ton of Colorado stories. I thought you guys were going to pin somebody down. Moving right along. That's right. You know, I do have a funny story about Colorado one time. So, I had a 68 tag back in the day. Boom. And there was somebody else that was hunting 68. And I'm pretty sure I saw him at the gas station.

But he wouldn't really look up. Who? Chris? I don't. Me? No. Who? No. Maybe Chris. Maybe Chris. What? Chris was hiding. I love it. I've never even discussed this with Chris before. I don't even remember hearing it. But I remember going to a gas station. Chris was hunting tactics. They're awesome. I just saw this guy over there. And I'm like, oh. Because I've met Chris before. You know? But just like briefly a couple times. Casually. Yeah, just casually. You didn't work for us back in the day. And so, you were Jason's brother-in-law. Right. That's all you were to most of us. I've met him in passing. And I see this guy in his hat. His hat's pulled really low. Like, really shittily. And it's at night. You know? My dad taught Chris how to do this. And really low. Incognito. And heads down a little bit. Texting on his phone. Leaned it up against a truck. And I'm like, I think that's Chris.

I think that's Chris. And then Chris is mine. And Chris is like, I know that's Jeff. And walks away. There's a dude that if I open my mouth, he's going to follow me the rest of the hunt. There's another dude in a Utah plate. I've got a Utah plate. And I don't want to make even eye contact. I'm pretty sure that's what it was, Chris. 100%. 100%. When I used to go to town over there, I would put on my cowboy boots, my Carhartt coat. I would take off anything that resembled hunting gear. And I would just go into town. I don't remember seeing camel. I remember seeing the hat pulled down. You're looking very incognito. The problem was I had people walk up to me on the hill. And they're like, hey, are you Chris? And I'm like, oh, crap. And that was even before the diehard cowboy days. So that was maybe how diehard cowboy was hatched. Can we say that? No. No. Okay. Just one.

But one thing I will say, you know what's the coolest thing ever? Is when we were, like me and Adam were in Montana. Or not Montana. In Wyoming hunting 128 deer. Oh, yeah. And we pull up. There's this Ford with an epic sticker in the back. That's pretty cool when you start seeing epic stickers in random places. So call in and order your epic sticker now. Follow that guy. Yeah. And that's what Chris. I love Chris. Because he's had guys come up and start talking to him. And he doesn't even talk to them back. He doesn't even. Oh, come on. I love it. It's kind of like your house. If a guy comes up like these magazine salesmen, right? Right. I tell my kids, it's our freaking house. You do not have to open that door just because someone knocks. That's what Chris. Chris takes that to a whole new level. I'm better than I used to be, okay? I mean, somebody come up. Hey, how you doing?

Sit right next to him. And I mean, we're out there. He's videoing for Rich Reaper. Yeah. Or glassing or whatever. On the mountain. And a guy will come up and talk to him. And, of course, I'm off in the bushes or whatever. And Chris won't even look at him. I mean, it's awesome. I've suffered from this very thing that's probably happened. You were needing a place to go. You were looking at a fellow Utard. Wanted maybe a lift, a little hand. Yeah. What do you got, Chris? Throw me a bone. You got a four point? Chris is putting his phone to his ear, even though nobody's on it. And he's talking, hey, you got that shipment of heifers ready?

Pretty soon, Jeff goes back to his truck and drives away. Finished going up with gas. Drove off like, I think I ate dinner with that dude once. Here, I'm going to tell you something on a minute. Defend yourself. It's the truth. It's the truth. The first year I went down there, I used to love this, but I would drive a two-wheel drive car hunting. What? Oh, yeah. Nobody ever suspects a two-wheel drive car. Did you take a two-wheel drive home there? I brought my 200-inch deer home in the front seat of a Ford Taurus. You did? I did. Ford Taurus. Oh, Ford Taurus. Wow. He's hunted out west in a freaking front-wheel drive car. I did. You had a truck this round. I just want to know if it was gutted. It was a truck. And a cooler. A cooler. Back then, it didn't have a cooler. It wasn't like bleeding all over anything. There's so many stories about Chris.

He shed hunted this place with how many girls?

Chris takes dating to a whole new level. This was like 10 years ago. He's like, I'm going to traipse them. They're like my shed dogs. Get out there and start walking. Good girl. Good girl. I get everything you find. It wasn't even a date. Come on. You don't drive from Utah 10 hours to a spot to shed hunt and not call it a date. It wasn't a date. It was two girls. Two? Yeah. Oh, it was. And they all slept in the same car. Yeah. In the same car? We all slept in the back of a two-out-of-four runner. And they shed hunted the crap out of it for him. We just said no unnecessary cuddling unless it gets sick of the cold. I'm just wondering, were they invited on future shed trips or were they just bad shed dogs? It was a rough trip. I didn't do that. Let's leave it at that. Let's just leave it right there. Let's move to Idaho. I didn't do that ever again. I did not do that again. I'm telling you.

We picked up a few. Idaho sheep, moose, and goat. Chris, you're off the hook. We're moving right along. Did you give them a backpack to at least haul the sheds out? I think so. All right. Let's move along. I agree, Bronson. I agree. Let's get out of there. Sorry about that, Chris. I introduced all sorts of stuff that just went on there. Anyway. Why do we only talk about sheep, goat, and moose in Idaho, Bronson? Give it to us. Here we go. They do have, they're one of the states that has a split application period for several of their species. And the first one they have is for sheep, moose, and goat. And that's open from April 1st to the 30th. And then the deer, elk, and antelope is later on with the June 5th deadline. So we cover that later in the month of May. A couple of bigger changes, I guess, to keep in mind for Idaho moose, sheep, and goat this

year is you're no longer going to accept paper applications. In the past, you could send in their little application worksheet with a check, save yourself a 3% online convenience fee. That's no longer an option. So you can either call on the phone, you can do it online, or go to Idaho and visit a vendor. That's the only, that's not very handy. I just give it as an option. You don't always have to go to Idaho. Yeah. Well, or a state line. Kent's Optics in Tremont, Utah. There you go. He wasn't even on the docket to give a plug, but go ahead. But we're plugging them. Kent'sOptics.com. You know, they're great sponsors of us. We share a booth with them, Western Hunting Conservation Expo. But they're a great partner of ours. Great prices on optics. But they are an Idaho license agent. So it is true. You don't have to be in Idaho, but generally, you've got to be close to Idaho, which they are.

The ones I know that are. They're the furthest south into Utah. Let's probably put it down. We safely probably say that. Yeah. But anyway, it is a state that's a little bit costly. They do make you buy $155, I'm rounding to the nearest dollar, hunting license before you can, as a prerequisite. That is if you apply for moose, sheep, or goat now, or the deer, elk, or antelope later. You do have to buy that. That's for an adult, non-resident. Then, the controlled hunt application fee for sheep, moose, and goat for non-residents is $41.75. So you're looking at $200, roughly. That's what you're looking at. In addition to a, fronting the fee, $2,200, I'm rounding again, $2,100, and all that getting hit with a 3% convenience fee. So it's more like $265, roughly, to apply on lawn. And you're not getting a point. There's no point system. So it's a little steep.

They've increased that application for a few years ago. It does have, you know, some of the better odds, especially for moose and goat, that you're going to find. It's completely a random draw. They do have good odds for sheep. You know, they do it kind of differently. They limit non-residents to no more than 10% of the statewide quota for sheep, moose, and goat, but also within each hunt code, no more than 10% of the tags in that given hunt, which for sheep is only one. A lot of people... Or one. Yeah, or one. Or one. So if there's not 10, you can still draw, but or one. So... That's right. So it is a state that we apply in. Now, sometimes, admittedly, I'll skip the sheep, even though I love to apply for sheep. If it's not a year that I feel I can wedge an ultra awesome sheep tag into my schedule, I'll skip it and I'll do the deer elk and antelope later. And I know you do the same thing.

Yeah, I do the same thing. I've drawn moose up there, of course, back in the day. And so anyway, it's a great state for applying for sheep, goat, or moose. If you do that, like Adam said, you cannot... Moose has come up twice with Jason today. You cannot... And he's trying to get off that subject. He's the only person here that's drawn a moose tag and he's drawn two. You cannot apply for deer elk and antelope if you do sheep, goat, or moose. And so it does make the drawing odds better. We do like the fact that there isn't a point system. We do like the fact that you have to choose. It just allows for these better drawing odds, which is really tough to find in this day and age. And there's great opportunities for any species that really makes you choose. And so like Adam said, right now the deer are in a slump. They had a tough winter in 2016, 2017.

And a couple of the better units, 44, 45, and some of these other units, 40, 42, they're still good quality. That chalice country on the 36s and country up there, really been tough. And so anyway, they do have... They're not known for big, big bulls, but they do have a few, especially in that unit 54. We cover that heavily later in the year. But while we're talking about Idaho, I did want to throw that out there just so people can kind of get a feel and wrap their head around. What would you choose? Would you choose sheep, goat, or moose? Even though we don't talk about deer and elk right now, we do need to kind of discuss it so you can choose. Yeah, because if you choose to do sheep, or moose, or goat, that's it for Idaho until the second controlled hunt drawing comes around, things like that. But it is a great state. Their sheep seem to be doing right now.

They've opened up several new units in the state this year, as well as new season dates within certain units. Their sheep are really doing good right now, doing well. And overall, if you need a Rocky at some point in your life or a California big horn, they have both. You should really consider applying for them. It is, like I said, a little bit costly. But what isn't? A sheep tag? You know, it's cheaper than $50,000, $60,000 for a Rocky tag. And for $250 or so bucks a year, you've got a chance just as good as anybody. One aim in the hat. Whoever gets it, gets it. A lot of guys like fronting the fees because there's a tradeoff. When you front the fees, the drawing odds are better. And so, anyway, there's tradeoffs no matter what state we're talking about. Great opportunity. You know, you can read all about it here in the Epic Outdoors magazine. It's the March issue.

Of course, we'll cover, like we said, the deer, elk, and antelope later on and go from there. So, anyway, anything else that you guys want to add? Well, just for those guys that aren't members, then all these odds, they're covered in the magazine. You've got, if you're a member, you can log on to our website. You can look up odds in every unit and see what your drawing odds are. If you're a member, you can also call us and ask about specific units and the differences between specific units. So, those are benefits of joining. Busy time of year, March and April. April, seems like everything's due and open. I mean, I know there's a few that have closed already, some of the Wyoming stuff and Arizona antelope and elk and Utah. But, man, there's a lot right in our plates right now. And so, the easiest way for $100 a year, the easiest way just to stay on top of that and

month by month, take a little bite and see what's in front of your plate is to subscribe to the Epic Outdoors membership. You get the magazine monthly from December to June. It breaks down these states in great detail, really boils it down. We're pretty frank at times, maybe too frank, about giving our real opinion on whether states, you know, must apply for or what the pros and cons are, things like that, as well as going into, you know, every moose unit open to every moose unit and goat unit and sheep unit in Idaho. It's all covered in the magazine. Drawing statistics, you know, harvest percentage, best goat, best sheep, all those. I mean, there's way more than we can cover in a podcast. If you're interested in that, you can go to epicoutdoors.com or give us a call at 435-263-0777. Glad to have you as a member, part of that membership service, not only just as a magazine,

but the ability to call and consult and get ideas with us how to use your points and build a draw strategy. I think I want to add to that the same thing we've been talking about with the hunt planner and the minimum points querying the drawing odds and all of those features online. We also have the magazine online, so you'll get it way before you'd get the printed copy. That's all just part of the $100 membership. It's not like you're going to get charged $150 or another $100 or whatever. It's just all part of it. So you can go online, utilize all those features, and, of course, we're going to keep that updated. We're going to keep rolling with that for years to come. So, anyway, there's a lot online. Just go check it out, epicoutdoors.com. And then, of course, if you're a member, you can log on. You can create a password and go from there. Anything else, guys?

If you're going to gut something, you should probably do it with an Outdoor Edge knife. That's right. Huh? That's right. Throw it out there, Jeffrey. You're the one that introduced me to it. Yeah. Out there on a Nevada hunt. Outdoor Edge. They have a replaceable blade knife that is actually a bigger, heavier-duty-feeling knife. I don't think I've broken a blade yet, and I've gone through a lot of blades, chomping up everything. Caribou, bear, deer, elk, you name it. Peanut butter sandwiches. Peanut butter sandwiches. After doing all that, you know, just wiping on the peanut butter, it's all good. That's right. But, anyway, outdooredge.com is where you can find them. They got a toll-free number, 1-800-447-3343. I like the product. A lot of other cool tools, too. Just outdoor tools. My kids want a machete really bad, and I keep saying no. Just give them a razor blade, John.

Give them a razor blade. That's a lot more safer than a dull machete. One thing that we are doing is you will see in the back of the magazine, we have some hunting opportunities. We're going to be sending out some via email to our members as well. But there are a lot of neat hunting opportunities, even still left this year. So, if you are looking for a hunt, if you're needing, oh, deer, elk, moose, you know, in Alaska, or you name it, we should have somebody that would be able to take care of you if not this year in the 2020 season. So, if you are looking for a guided hunt, give us a holler. We've got an outfitter for you to talk to. Jeff is our hunt specialist. He works with outfitters with guaranteed tags everywhere from Canada, Alaska, Mexico, and all through the states here. So, anyway, there's a lot of opportunities. We talk a lot about draw tags. I get it.

But there's also hunting opportunities you don't have to draw. Yeah, and Jeff's, you know, of course, Adam and I consult on that as well. But Jeff is, you know, especially tasked with that job of dealing with our outfitters. Well, and that's just an added benefit. There's not an additional fee for that either. The $100 membership, you get the magazine, you get the consulting, and then also the ability to call in, put us to work to help you find a hunt for you or a group of hunters that you're looking for for this year. That's all included. We just got done talking about, you know, Idaho, $260 to put in for one species. Or Colorado, if you're going to spend $300 or $400 to do deer, elk, moose, and sheep and goat, you know, it's $100 a year. Seems pretty minimal for, I think, what we offer to help keep people up to date on the draws and things like that.

For the price of a sheep point in Colorado, if you don't even include the small game license, we're talking about an epic membership. That's right. So, anyway, happy to help you guys out there. We have a lot of guys calling in, and that's good. Call in. We're here to help you. Anything else, boys? Let's call it a day and go to lunch, huh? Have some bad sushi or something. Over and out. All right.