EP 127: Remembering our First Deer Hunts with the Epic Crew

I'm looking at a picture of my first buck right here. My dad was really into high country mule deer at the time, and I remember I was about 16, and I had that set up, the regular 270 win. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey, everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, Jeffrey John. He hates the word Jeffrey, so let's call him Jeff. And Chris Peterson, Christopher Peterson. Is it Christopher? Yeah. Everybody's Christopher. I didn't know that. Nobody gets named Chris. I have not heard him name Christopher. Does anybody get named Jeffrey? I don't know. I think if I name my kid, I look at my kid's middle name, because his middle name's Jeffrey, and I look at him, I'm like, I should have just went with Jeff on that one. Well, it's just because you have a personal problem with your own name. Well, I don't really have a personal problem with Jeffrey. People call me Jeffrey. It doesn't bug me at all, but it's so stinking long. I like a four-letter name. Yeah. It's nice. Seven or eight letters, Jeff. I mean. My middle name's Garth, and it starts with a G.

Like, I don't like the letter G. I just don't like the letter G. I don't like it. All right. Here we go. The only good word that starts with a G. That's what I said. G-E-O-F-F-R-E-Y. Right? The only good word that starts with a letter G is golf.

And I'm going to go golf. Let's go golfing today, guys. Let's get this thing done. It's summertime. If you can't tell, it's a little freelancer today. Be careful. It's early morning. Chris, what do you got? This is a tropical smoothie. Lean machine. Ooh. Oh, man. Feels like Antler Max. Speaking of Antler Max, Jeff, what do we got going? It's summertime. This looks like Antler Max, whatever I've got here. That looks like. That's pretty green. I don't even know what Antler Max looks like. Never used it. Tell us about it, Jeff. Looks like pellets. It's like rabbit food. Tell us about the semi-load truck being trucked in to Cedar City, Utah. Okay, so there's a place in Texas that makes this product called Antler Max, right? Now, in Utah, we have to preface this first. In Utah, it's legal debate, right? Utah, Oregon, and I don't know. There's just not many places you can do it.

But Utah is one of them. So, in this little town of Cedar City, I mean, little is relative to everyone, but how many people live in Cedar? 30,000. 30,000. I was in the IFA yesterday. They said they've been through two semi-loads. Come on. Of Antler Max. Two semi-loads. There's a whole underground baiting movement we're not even a part of. I don't even know what it looks like. I don't know. I would have to ask you. Are they little pellets like rabbit food, or are they bigger? They're like smoker. Oh. Like your Camp Chef smoker pellets, right? They're about that size. You know what I mean? I wonder if they already eat that stuff. Do they come in smoke flavor, different flavors or whatever? I mean, truthfully. I don't think so. Like, I think, I don't know. I didn't pay attention to what the bags look like. But anyway, there's just, I mean, they come in like 40-pound, 50-pound seats.

So did you need to take your one-time truck down there, or did you take your half-time truck? I thought about taking the freaking dump trailer down there. No. Are you buying some? I haven't bought any of that. Anyway, they are a Western company that does feeds. They have retail stores. We're giving lots of plugs today. We are. We already got IFA and Tropical Smoothie on here for free. Who else are we going to get on for free today? We're not going to talk about Monster, although it's pretty amazing. Three. There's three. I know. Ice water. What have we got? I don't know. Fuji or Dasani? What one are we going to throw out there? I don't know. All right. One of them. Are we going to go to the Jeff's Steakhouse and have sushi today or not?

Throw that one in there. There you go. Jeff, I don't know anything about this. I don't buy it. But tell me. Why is it in your mind? I'm not super experienced on this stuff. How did you learn about this?

Basically. Just got chatting to one of the dudes there while you're picking up some salt. Got chatting to one of the dudes there. It's weird because I think different things work at different places. I don't think there's one cure-all to feed animals. Are you thinking about the lease that you're doing? I think the lease. I got an elk tag, and so I'm trying to locate bulls, just trying to figure them out. You know, they're very. So what are you going to do for elk? Like, what are you going to do for elk? I'm putting out block and using buck jam. Buck jam. Yeah, buck jam. Bull jam. We should just rename it, put a new package on it, and you've got a whole new market. There you go. Adam, we could do sheep jam. We could do ram jam. Ram jam. Oh, that's a good one. Dude. You are giving away some. Oh, we could do a little bit of. You just gave that away. Somebody's going to steal that idea.

Cholla cactus, a little bit of guts, a little taste of that in there. A little ocotillo leaf compressed. A little grass mixed with. A little pulp from a barrel cactus. And there's nothing. Nothing. Everything has to have a little bit of apple in it. Those sheep won't even know what happened. Well, you just put a little bit of this tropical smoothie, artificial flavor in there. I mean, we got them on board today, so. Ram jam. Somebody is going to make a million bucks. I mean it. I mean it. For the five non-resident tags that you need to hear. It's going to be unbelievable. Huh? These outfitters. I mean, just saying. Put on the bass, you know. Max out the mask. Look, let me ask you. What's the most. Holy mask, Donald. Oh, tell us about. Let's talk about that. How about that? You're like this. Can I throw this out at you guys? That's one of my favorites. Oh, yeah. Huh? Holy mask.

Look at the mask. Holy Donald. That was awesome. You're going to have to explain where you're going. All right. Well, back probably 10, 12 years ago, we had a client back in the former life. So fun. He sent us a picture of his. All the pictures of his story for his desert sheep. And he had some video clips. And they were raw. And this guy is Canadian. And, man, they were raw. You know what? I got to tell you. He's one of the happiest guys we've ever met. Oh, yeah. I mean, this smile is giant. Yeah. And you can't help but smile when you're around this guy. Yeah. We see him at all the shows every year. But super good dude. He's funny as heck. And just he's 100% Canadian. But it was the holy mass Donald. We rolled and cried so hard watching them. Because it died. They walked up to it. And they pulled it out. And it was him. And then he was talking to his brother.

And they were just freaking out. And he finally killed the desert sheep. Holy Donald. Yeah. Look at the moss. I mean, dude. Just. Pat, if you're listening to this, we love you. And we went. Yeah, we went and saw him at the show. And we pulled that out on him. And he just started rolling. No, and he grins and laughs. Because he knows just what you're talking about. But anyway. So funny. This is ricocheting all over the place today. But we got Buck Jam. We got. Bull Jam. Bull Jam. Ram Jam. Okay. Though I'm going to ask. Okay. I just want some royalties. On a year like this where there's water everywhere. Oh. Even in the desert, there's water everywhere. There's streams. What's an idea? Well, I got to tell you, it's been pretty rough. I've been running cameras in Nevada. Luckily, two weeks ago, there was running streams in some places. Now, at least it's drying up. Yeah.

But I told you, Adam, you called me, what, two days ago. And, I mean, it was like there was one of those just storms that just slam you. Yeah. And there's creeks running where creeks have never run. So, they're running around like normal trees and things that don't have a ditch by them. There's never been water run by them. And it's running as if it stormed. And it hadn't stormed for 10 days. And it's just running. And it's, there is, so my point is some places are drying up. Some places, you're just, you're out of luck this year. There's, water is a love-hate situation. Looking on Manti, that's a big mountain. And I was down low, glassing the upper roads. There's still snow. Oh, 10-foot drifts. Talked to a guy yesterday. Most are some ranch, that's the case. One of the sheep areas in Colorado, he says, they said there's a 150-foot avalanche chute that came across there.

He says it's 150-foot deep. The snow is 150 feet deep. I don't know if it's true or not. I'm calling it. I don't know if that's true or not. That's pretty easy. But he says basically it was an avalanche chute. Nick came down and just buried a road. They said they don't think it's ever going to open this year. The road won't open this year. No, it probably won't. It's crazy. Because you're going to have trees and crap trapping it in. It's not going to melt right. And then you're going to have a layer of trees blanketing the snow underneath it when it melts above it. Anyway. Man, we're going all over the place today. In Silverton, Colorado. We're talking the specifics of avalanche and melting ratios. There you go. I mean, geez. We could talk about my son blowing out a sidewall and me and daddy happening to save the day. Yeah, so Jason, you've got a 1994 Toyota for your boy, right?

Yeah, a little Toyota. I guess they call them a Tacoma, but back then it was the only Toyota truck they made. It was just a toy. I don't even think the T100 was made. I don't know. I'd have to Google that. So, safe to say the wrench under the seat fit the original tires in 1994. No. No. No. It had to have because this has to be an aftermarket set of tires on there with lugs. No, it's not. So, what happened was as we went down, we busted a stud off. He did. I don't know. Whatever. Stud ended up busting. The tire company put a new stud in there with a different size. One of them. One. Only one. One. And who would think, right? So, we got four lug nuts of one size. The fifth lug nut is of a different size. And he's out there in the middle of nowhere. Right? No. Luckily, got a little bit of service. That's when I'm sitting here in the office. Luckily, Adam, you and I are a little bit slow.

Jeff, of course, you're here. Chris, you're here. And we're just a little bit slow. And I take off. Of course, Chief's getting officially scored three times to make, you know, because anyway, because he was in the top five of that recording period. So, I had to have him score. Rusty Hall comes down. Score him. And then I get a phone call from Sean, Dad. I'm like, I'm sitting here on the side of the road and need some help. I got one lug that can't come off. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So, anyway, I throw another tire. I had another rim off another Toyota that's long since gone. And took him out another spare. Because he thinks he's coming home, right? He don't have a spare. He thinks he's coming home. And I take it out to him. And he's like, what's that? And I'm like, this is your other spare. Keep going. So, long story short, these kids of mine are awesome.

But, anyway, they're helping me run the trap line. They're out running cameras and scouting and glassing. And they got a 22-250 up in the front seat. And, I mean, I think they're having the time of their lives. Of course, they've got a gas car. Think about that. They've got a gas car. They've got a truck. And they've got a cell phone. This is their summer job, right? This is their summer job. Is to just scour it. You know what I mean? And a lot of it is just they're learning how to use the maps. They've got GPSs. I'm sending them coordinates. And then they've got to figure out how to find the water, find this receipt, find this glassing knob, whatever. And it's every day. I line them out with a whole work schedule every day. And so, I'm loving it maybe even more than they are. Of course, I'm hearing the word. The whip is cracking, man. Hey, you don't want to be on salary with me.

That's right. And that's the funny thing is he negotiated a summer rate on salary. Not hourly. It's not per trip. Not per camera you put out. Not per time you service. They slept in until 6.30. Most mornings it's 4 a.m. Flat fee. They're getting screwed. I'm just saying it right now. I'm just saying. They're not. They're not. We're both getting a good deal. How about that? So, anyway, they're out learning some stuff and hiking their little guts out. And, yeah, so long story short, got him back on the road. Actually, Jake Rosevere ended up pulling up to him right before I got there. And so it was good to visit with him, talk about clients and different things and tags and, of course, the water that's everywhere and whatnot. But, anyway, he's starting to help the boys out. And then I rolled in and got him on the road. So. Through the other spare in there. I could say, go, go, go.

What's the job? Go. Hey. Be gone. All right, Dad. I'm going to go home and go out with the friends. It's like you guys had an hour and a half break. No, you're not. You sat here in the sun for four and a half hours doing nothing. You didn't do a thing for four and a half hours until I got here. It's not that. I don't think. Sean is the kind of kid, though, you don't have to tell him to do that. I don't tell him. No. I don't tell him. He loves it. He wakes up this morning and I give him his workload and he looks at me and he goes, that's it? I'm like, yeah, you got a light day today, but tomorrow's going to be a little more rough. So, enjoy it. You know. Anyway, no, it's just fun. I mean, it's fun to get out there. A fun time of year. He's got his own Nevada tag. And so, anyway, just kind of teaching these kids, hey, this is how it's done, you know. You got to.

It's work and it's day and day. I was thinking, whoa. He had a deer tag. He drew an antelope tag. I forgot. I might. And we got some big bucks. Of course, we haven't even. Big two points. Yeah. Forkies with small little basils. Sweet. Anyways. I'm not just saying they're the only ones. I'm going out every day. You're going out. You've been looking at sheep. In fact, you looked at sheep just yesterday. Yeah. It's ping-ponging around between different places in Utah, Rockies, Deserts, trying to dodge 105 to 10 degree weather getting down there. We had some nice little cool downs in Nevada over the last week or 10 days. And that makes you be able to go out and stay down in sheep country all day long, which this time of year gets a little bit suspect whether you can do that or not. You get down those days. It's in the 90s. It's like a gift from heaven. It is. It is.

However, I hate it down there. It's coming. I mean, and I was like, you know, anyway, you and I talked and it was about 3.34 in the afternoon. And I'm like, I'm on my way home. I'm sick of this. And it is. It is hot. When you're finding springs and learning new country and learning habitat and whatnot, and then you're dealing with the maps, dealing with the GPSs. Speaking of which, this will kind of, you know, tie into what we're talking about on possibly, you know, say it was your first hunting area like you, Jeff, on your elk tag this year or whatever. Or how do you go about starting that? But anyway, same thing. I'm dealing with learning new country down there. And some of it's awesome. Some of it flat sucks. Well, and you can burn through a couple of days of, and you don't accomplish anything. But what you have done is you've eliminated stuff. I don't need to go down there again.

You know what I mean? I don't want to go down there. You can only get there by grinding through some of this stuff on, whether it's a deer, whether it's a sheep, whether it's, you know, fringe elk habitat, something like that. And you're going to all these springs on maps and all that, and 80% of them are dry, even this year in some of these places. So if they're dry this year. Well, I can't believe the springs on maps. I'm thinking, okay. When was this ever named? This map, yeah. You know when you look at the map and it says 1963 or 73, whatever. Even though it's a newer map, that was the last time this was printed on paper. For the paper. A version, right? And there's springs on there that probably haven't existed for over a decade. Yeah. And wet years like this, we're seeing water on the exterior surface. The water table's still low. Something's just changed. It's changed. Earthquakes.

I'm not getting into geode and seismic events, but I mean, just the earth has changed in 50 years. You get a little fault and all of a sudden the water's running a different amount. I don't know what causes it. She's stingy. Mother nature is stingy. And she changes her mind. Does that sound familiar? Well, yeah. There's weird places. I'm like, I'm going along and then there looks to be a spring. And then I'm looking at the map. I mean, 14 different versions, right? Because you can go on your GPS. You can go on Onyx on your phone. You can go on the paper map. You can go 100 different places. And you look and one will have a spring, one won't. Why is that? You know what I mean? So I feel like I've got to have a membership in 1,400 different digital versions to get all the springs. Yeah. And then call Rand McNally himself and get a first hand take. Rand. Rand, what do you think?

You need to update. This ain't right. Because I don't know how many. You named a couple of springs. How about that? I don't know how many springs I've walked to that aren't there. Yeah. Well, and I think the interesting thing, we talk about springs a lot. Let's just be honest. You need shelter, food, and water. Okay? So like water, when you find water, you find game. Little game, big game, snakes, whatever. Right? And so anyway, it doesn't matter if you're on Manti. You're not going to go where there's not water. They like to wallow. They like to drink. Cows love it. And so anyway, you create a frenzy. That's where you probably, you're going to be hunting around water. I mean, that's just the name of the game. And feed. You know? And of course, we're driving along. I'm seeing bitter brush. I literally had grass up to my mirror in my truck. Wow. Grass. I'm not talking about bushes.

I'm talking about grass. And so kind of crazy. You know what I mean? That is crazy. That is crazy. Yeah. I think this year it's going to be, I don't know, like even scouting on Manti right now, it's like, what? Manti. Oh, yeah. Shoot. Oh, we went there. He said it once before. You missed it. Oh, did I? Okay. I made notes. I now know we're Jeff's hunting elk. Jeff's hunting elk on Manti. If anybody out there has any bulls tied to a tree, please call Jeff. Please call me. Jeff at epicoutdoors.com. And make sure he hashtags you and gives you all the glory. There you go. I might even pay you for it. Because at this point, with how much money it takes to get there and back. Plumbing must be really good right now. We know this business is just okay because it's on salary. Well, I think part of it is he's ready to get back on deer. And yeah, you had a handful of points.

And let's burn them and let's go hunting. Every trip you go on, it costs money. You know, you're a hundred bucks in fuel a day to run a truck, right? And then you're, you know what I mean? And then you got a full day invested into it. I mean, let's call it a $400 day. Every day. You know what I mean? And so you pull a week. Dude. If you can save a week by lucking out, finding those bulls early. And then you throw on some bull jam and a block or two. Yes. Oh. IFA's got your credit card on file. There you go. You're having things drop shipped to your house. Yeah. Trophy Rock. Throwing it in a one-ton truck. We're just going to pull up with a two-ton and load up with Trophy Rock, too. Trophy Rock did make a visit to the office the other day. I don't know what happened to all that stuff. Appreciate it. Thanks a lot. It's in the storage shed out there.

Break a little bit of it out for the Wapiti in certain places in Utah. Maybe some ram jam. No. Yeah. Ram jam. What do you think a sheep would do? I've never had them touch the stuff. I've tried. I bet sheep. A couple places I've tried. No kidding. What have you tried? Salt. They don't mess with salt? A couple places they haven't. I've had them in one or two places they haven't. I think a lot of it. Desert salt. I've seen this with deer, too. Yeah. Salt's never worked for me. Certain places on deer range, they don't even touch it. They don't even act like it's there. And you get them near a spring or something. I think it's just a lot of diet issues. Other places it feels like. They're made of in that area. Some of them just don't need it. That IFA guy says. He says. He'll put those blocks on his place. And he says. The only thing I get is squirrels. I only get squirrels. He says.

Two miles away. He's got a. He's got a. One of his friends. Has some property over there. He says. He goes through a block every two days. Come on. The deer are crushing. There you go. Crushing. Crushing. So it's just kind of what they're feeding on right there. And where. Whereabouts in their feed pattern you might be sitting to. I don't know. Well. Well it's. It's coming fast and furious. We're on the eve of Arizona. Cards getting dinged. By the time you hear this. They're going to be. Start getting dinged. Why is that on your mind? Adam. I don't know. Adam. But what I'm saying is. Adam might get a deer tag. You know. Adam's so excited. He's like. Dude. Normally. Okay. Just so. I'll be up at six in the morning. Just so everybody knows. We usually. Refresh. We're taking Fridays off to scout. Wanting to just be out there. And then obviously. Going back and forth.

Taking turns throughout the week. Just because this time of year. The draws aren't. You know. Things are coming to a close. As far as the application season. And scouting season is here. And Adam's like. You know. I think I might work on Friday. And I'm thinking. The only thing on Friday. Is credit card. That's pretty positive. I've changed. I've changed my. My mentality. Because. Tomorrow. Could change my. The rest of my. Summer life. My summer life. Maybe you're hunting. Existence. It could be. Well if it results in a 240 buck. Yes.

But. Net. Or gross.

I heard nets are for fish. But. I will be. I've changed. I'm going to be golfing 18 holes tomorrow. With a crack of daylight. So by 10. 30. 11. I'll be done. And by then. I should know my destiny. For the rest of the summer. I'm either heading back to Nevada. I'm either heading. Back to Nevada. Or I'm heading. I'm putting. Either way. The rest of the day. I'm putting trail cameras together. Like a. Crazed man. It's just whether I'm going east. Or whether I'm going. Or west or south. So let me tell you about another person. That's all. That's all. So I got my daughter. And her job. Her job is to load the cameras with batteries. And cards. And. And you know. You know what a pain it is. To load cameras. Ripping. Moping. And getting rid of the packaging. And just. Oh. Dude. And so anyway. I'm like. Is she on. Ash. Peace rate. Or what? I should have her on peace rate. No. She's a good worker.

I don't need to do that. Three bucks a camera. She'd probably crush you. I feel guilty for what I do pay her. I mean. Good. She's amazing. I guess let's just talk. Speaking of trail cameras. So Jeff. What? What? Should we talk about trail cameras more? Like. Oh. Is. There's a lot of negative connotation these days about trail cameras. Well. Trail cameras are just. They're just fun. It's like Christmas man. And it's just another opportunity. I mean. It don't matter. If you're. Be respectful. How's that? Yeah. Be respectful. Be kind and rewind. Remember that saying? But whether you're putting them up on the. On like what you're talking about. Like whether it be trophy rock or whatever. I mean. Trail cameras are an awesome tool. In most states you can use them year round. Nevada. You have to quit at the end of July. July 31st. So you've got a. You've got a movement out there.

All the outfitters and everybody are being very aggressive. This is the only time of year you can. You can use them. And then. And then you're done. You know. As far as that. Now you've got to go back to old school hunting. Which. Which I like. I like it. You know. But. Anyway. It is like Christmas. Go check a card. I don't care who you are. If you don't feel like it's Christmas. I mean. You're not a hunter. I mean. It's. To go back and check a card. Anticipation. Huh? Even you. Just like trapping. I mean. You're going up to your favorite bobcat sets. Hear the chain. You're ready to.

And you're like. Where's he at? Yes. Yes. You know. And I think there's so many people that. And. And I've been seeing this on social media lately. But. So many people that. Thinks. They don't. I mean. That's such a negative connotation about. Well no. Running cameras. It's for dudes that don't. That don't have the time to do it. And they're running their mouth. And they just want to. And they say that people don't know how to hunt. Or something like that. And. And I just want to say that. That. That. Because you run trail cameras. It doesn't mean you don't know how to hunt. That's right. It's a fun tool. It's just a fun tool. And. It'd be like leaving my range finder at home. Because 30 years ago. We didn't use range finders. It'd be like leaving that at home. And saying. I don't need that. Because it's not a tool. It's not a tool we should use. Let's talk about the range finders. Okay.

It's my first hunt. My first. My first hunt. With. You had one in 1990. This was. Or 80. 1990. 90. Yeah. Something like that. Wow. 89. 90. I didn't have a range finder. No. No. That's my point. Oh. Okay. That's my point. I would never. I would never want to go back to that. 1988. Right. No range finder. And it was just brass pins. A Carol Browning bow. Yes. I mean. You know. My dad. You know. He was a surveyor growing up. So. Compasses. All that stuff. He could judge yardage. Marking yardages. He could do it. And so he had. We had stakes in our yard. And we would try to. You know. Every five yards. At our archery range. And we'd mentally try to do that. But it's different. You get out in the hills. And you got. You know. It's not flat. When it's flat. You can pitch your football fields. You can kind of visualize it. You're out in the mountains. You're shooting down a slope.

Or something like that. Or you got open air. It's a draw. And you're shooting over open air. You're like. It's just hope. It's a hope and a prayer. Speaking of hope. There we go. This is going to be good. So. I've got my mom's. I'm looking at a picture. Of my first buck right here. And I might. Might give it to Chris. That's on social media. But this is from way back. I mean. Wow. How could you even make backpacks. That look that bad. And. I mean. I mean. The backpack. I think there's a three wheeler. I think. There's a bike over here. That's an actual three wheeler. A couple of these old rotten four wheelers. That we moved in on. I think that's a three wheeler. It might be. But anyway. You know. Suicide bikes. Oh. Yeah. It's like having a lap belt. Right. In a vehicle. Or take it. Going to Washington D.C. In the back of a camper show. Which is what I do. So. In a 1972 shift. So.

This particular hunt. We went back in. And it was. It was me. Dad. Darl Trotter. And his boy. And Travis. And so. Anyway. This is going to be one of them. Is this the Book Cliffs? Yeah. Or LaSalle's? Yeah. Book Cliffs. Yeah. Okay. But on the general side. Clear back when. Before it was a draw. Yes. And so anyway. So we went back up in there. And we got on the edge of this great big old canyon. And I got my mom's 308. Okay. Great flat shooting. Now. I know the 308 is the most amazing rifle in the world. Accuracy wise. But. You should not be in the field with a 308. I mean. You shouldn't be. So. Unless you're on whitetails and a tree stand. And this thing has a 20 inch barrel. I mean. It's a tiny little. With Magna port. Right. They call it Magna port. And just little slots drilled in. Right. And I'm like. Okay. You know. And who knows if it's sighted in. Who knows. Right.

Dad just dodged it again. It cost money. And back then we didn't have a lot of money. So.

We went back in. We were on the edge of this cliff. And there's a. There's a buck down there. And I'm going from memory. Right. Long time ago. But. My dad and I. Were. Like. We were both set up. And he's. I got my pile of shells. And he's got his pile of shells. And you're ready to cut loose. Oh yeah. And in. And in. And in. You know. Back in the day. It was like. You know. Who draws blood. I mean. You're tagging it. And it's a. It's not like. Hey son. Here's your buck. I mean. It's like. Hey. It's a garcer up. Or mine. We're both going to let loose on this. And you. I mean. You know. You can picture this. Right. And I just. We need to eat the deer. We have no bottled deer meat left on the. We need to kill. This thing has to die. Oh. It has to die. Somehow. And it's a four point. Right. And so it's like. Good luck son. Here we go. You know. And I'm like. Good luck dad.

I'm crushing this thing. Right. So he lets around. I let around. He lets around. I let around. And I. I mean. I want. I want to feel like it's a box of. I want to say it's a box of shells. I don't know. I don't know. There was lots of. Brass. Brass. Jingles. Yeah. Like spent brass. Loaded brass. I mean. It was all right there. Right. And so we're going through the rounds. And I'm like. And I'm trying to figure out where I'm hitting. And I. And neither of us are spotting for either of us. And we don't have a spotter. And if you had a spotter. What would you have for optics. Right. Remember back then. Handhold seven power task. Oh. When Redfield 10 by 50s came out. They were. The gift of the world. They were the BTXs of their time. Come on. No. No question. And so. Anyway. Finally. I ended up walking. Walking the rounds. Right up into the stairs. And. And crushed him. I'm like. I hit him.

I can't. You know. And it feels like it's. 1500 yards. Okay. I think it was probably. 375 yards. But. That's true. But the 308. Yeah. Multiply that by three. That's like 950. Yeah. Very.

Anyway. I ended up going down. And my dad. He. He was like. Yeah. I think you did. You know. So. I'm going to tag this deer. I mean. And. Like I say. I mean. When you're in camp. It's. You know. He's as competitive as I am. I mean. It is what it is. And that was my first deer. It was. Quite an experience. Not an easy hunt. Not a lot. That many deer. But anyway. One of those classic example. I wish I had a range finder. Wish. I mean. If we knew now. What we knew. You know what I mean. Knew then. What we know now. Obviously. We probably wouldn't have any deer. My first buck is the same exact story. I got a 243. And I got to think that. I know exactly. You've probably been there. You've been out to like Fisher Canyon. And everything. Oh yeah. On that. On Sessions place up there. Yeah. Anyway. All over Sessions. Right there. And basically. Park Valley country. Yeah. So basically.

Before that was a CWMU. We were hunting a general. Because we were friends with landowners. Like my dad grew up with. And everything like that. So anyway. We're hunting out there. And.

Pile of bucks. Another great deer cartridge. Long range deer cartridge. 243. 100 grain bullet. Anyway. Keep going. It was. Okay. So I think about it. It was close enough. That through my. Three by nine scope. I could judge. Four point. Versus three point. Everything like that. I had a straight. I was raised on a straight eight Simmons. So three to nine. That's a. That's a nice scope. My first rifle. Was a Leopold fixed four. Wow. I killed. I killed. That's what they used for. Colorado. Two of them for that. Yes. Fixed four. My dad is a fixed power guy. I think he had a six. But he said. Yeah. Four. You have a bigger field of view. You can find it better. Okay. And there's no moving parts. This will last forever. And I'm like. Yeah. Straight eight. Simmons. Okay. Go ahead, Jeff. Go ahead. So anyway. Sorry. I'm sitting on this little knoll. And here comes these.

Here come these bucks out of these trees. And there's like eight bucks. And I just start slinging lead. I mean. Is this your actual first hunt? This is my. No. My first. First deer. First kill. That's what I mean. No. That's what I mean. So there's like the. There's eight bucks. And they're just. I mean. I must have been missing them by enough that. They really weren't that spooked. They were just. You're dropping limbs on top of them. I mean. I don't know. But somehow the best bucks all managed to get by and around the corner. And the last buck. You're not going to not shoot. Finally takes a bullet. Oh. Dude. I burned through 20. Over 20 rounds. And I know. Because I had an actual box of shells. And I burned through them all. And. And then. I. I. I. Those are the good old days. Man. When you were on a mountain. Well. And. And you knew somebody was. Oh. You're. And they were just.

And you're like. What in the. And you were never. Are they running into. And you. How many bucks are they seeing. Because you really. It was a two. You hear like. Like. World War II going on over there. Yes. And really. It was a two point. They flushed on their horses. And all of them jumped off. And they shot 32 rounds. And you were never. Accused of being unethical. No. Never. You're like. You went through 20 rounds. Did you get him? Yeah. Good job. Yeah. You know. Nowadays. You're like. Oh. It took four rounds. And he took a. He took one to the kneecap. You're a piece of work. And I shot him at 750 yards. I. On the third shot. I drilled him. Oh. You're a piece of crap. So everybody that's listening. Crush Jeff on social media. There you go. What's your social media handle? I don't know. Don't crush me. Jeffrey John. I only took 18 rounds on that first. Jeffrey John. Jeffrey John.

I only took 18 rounds on that first. But the way it ended. The way it ended. It's keep tracking. It's keep tracking. All right. Keep going Jeff. Keep going. So. So anyway. Miss all the good bucks. Final last buck. So we're cranking through box number two. In October. Velvet three point. And I freaking. I find. Like. He's actually the one that finally caught a bullet. From me. Anyway. But I. It's far enough away. And he's still. Normal testicles. No. He actually. Like. We skinned him out. And he had taken. Like. Somebody hit him with an arrow. I think. In the testicles. Wow. No. Oh. Just. He was just. I'm just trying to think about the stag. In the side. It is side. He was. He was just all like. On his side. He was. Like green. That's true. We. Great buck. Great first buck to take home. Okay. Yeah. It was. It was. It was a three point. And I was pretty stoked about it. But I was awful.

I was pretty bummed about missing all the better bucks. And finally the buck I hit. But. But anyway. At that point. Dude. You're. I mean. I'm a canyon. Oh. It's. It's down across the canyon. Back up. So. I hike up. My dad comes over. A little frustrated that I just went through the box of shells. And I don't. I mean. I got like five shells left. Because. You know. When you're hiking in the hills. You don't take four boxes of shells with you. So anyway. But you take two. Yeah. I should have taken two. Two full boxes. Which nowadays I think. Two full boxes. I'm going to need to scare you. But then. We'll go to Alaska or Mexico with one box total. Yeah. Like. Yeah. When have you ever shot 20 rounds. In the last 15 years. And I did that in five minutes. I mean. Just lodged. But anyway. That was my first buck. And that's the thing. That comes back. A range finder. And a scope. Oh.

That you know where it's going to hit. Once again. Kills more deer. Well. Like. Oh yeah. Well. We had. I had a 44 pound. When I was 14 years old. That was my first hunt. That was the year. We're talking about gutting. Right. Yeah. We're going to get to that story. Yeah. So. Utah used to be. The minimum age used to be 16. Well. The year. I turned 14. And that next year. They changed it. To. You can now hunt when you're 14. So. I timed it perfect. So. Back then. You could buy a deer tag in Utah. And you could hunt the archery hunt. And if you didn't kill. Basically. You had a dedicated hunter tag. Yeah. You could hunt the archery. If you didn't kill. You get to hunt the rifle. If you didn't get it. Kill. You get to hunt the early muzzle loader. Remember. In early November. Yeah. It's crazy. Early muzzle. Meaning late muzzle. Late muzzle. Yeah. Late muzzle. Sorry. The late muzzle.

You get to hunt the muzzle. That was the best. That was the best hunt out there. In the world. Oh yeah. Yes. It was. It was dedicated hunter now. Back when Lloyd Barton killed his 290. Yes. Except for not hunting muzzle loader in September. You could hunt it in November. Yes. But that was a general season. Yes. $15 tag. Whatever. Well. My dad was really into high country mule deer at the time. And there were some basins over in southeastern Utah. That he had a buddy of him. That were really. Really into these spot and stock these deer. We were packed in. We were packed in. You know. Three or four miles. Staying in a little cabin. And my brother was 11. So I was 14. He's three years younger than me. And he was 11. And we had a few little. There's a few cattle ponds and salts and stuff out way back there. That the cattlemen put in. That had a bunch of deer hit them.

There was a lot of deer in 1988. I mean. There was. There was a lot of game. I mean. There was. It was. It was my glory days. I got it for about three years. No. Yeah. Until 1992, 1993. And they crushed him. That's right. But anyway. I just remember the anticipation coming. You know. It went from dad. It's got to be a four point. You know. All year. It's going to be a four point. It's got to be a four point. Until the day before the hunt. Like. Dad. Any buck steps in front of me with this bow. I'm freaking going to cut one loose. To the night before the hunt. The archery hunt was either sex. And I said. Dad. I hope I don't see a doe first. Because I'm ready to cut an arrow loose. I am so ready. I'm done with grouse. I'm done with squirrel. I'm done. And I'm ready to freaking. Kill something. I'm going to provide for the family. Well. Just. You want to. You want to kill something. So.

Opening day. I'm sitting at this little pond. And salt. And a makeshift ground blind. That I made myself. Because my dad's hiking way up into the. Steep stuff. That's an hour and a half hike. And he's probably just didn't want us kids in the way. At the time. And we would have been noisy. And complaining. Blah blah blah. Here come these eight bucks. Into this thing. And I'm pinned on the ground. And they're. They looked like there was three or four. 180 plus bucks. But. Who knows what they were. But I blew it before they even got there. Because I'm freaking trying to move. Get in position. I'm on the ground. And they scatter. So I'm PO'd. Walking back. The old carol bowl. Carol bowl. With a stick on. Arrow rest. Oh stuck. Yeah. Stuck on. Yeah. On the side. Yeah. Stuck. Like. They fell off occasionally. You had to have a spare one in your pack. Because if that one fell off. You. You can't.

Shoot your bone. I took knocking point. Then you have them in there. So you can crimp them on if you need. I mean. All this crap. Anyway. Five brass pins. That are just terrible. And I painted those with a little pink. Red. Yellow. I put. You know. Like white out. So dumb. The problem is when it rained. The white out would kind of dissolve. Okay. Keep going. And you wouldn't have. Anyway. So I'm walking back. And I jumped this freaking buck. And he's a dink. I mean. The smallest two point you can ever imagine. Good one. I think he was actually a two by one maybe. But. And he runs out there and stops. And I. And I'm ready. And I just. Let one rip. And it sinks right in his guts. I mean. Right in the middle of his body. But. This day and age. I'm like. You're pumped. Now. Right then. I'm ecstatic. I'm. Yeah. You're pumped right then. I'm 14 years old. Oh yeah. But. Perfect lung shot. Well.

I didn't know. I just knew. I drilled that thing. Right. You saw that. And you know. When you shoot. Oh. When you used to shoot. Finger tabs. Either they're up and down porpoising. It's porpoising. Or it's side to side. It's porpoising. And you're seeing the arrow side to side. It's finger tab. There's no release. It's finger tab.

I get Aaron. I don't know what he was doing. He's all by himself. Back at camp. As an 11 year old. No radios. No cell phones. No radios. Nothing. And I'm a mile. I'm about three quarters of a mile from him. So I get him. I said. Hey. I freaking hate him. So we get back down there. We start tracking it. And we're tracking. We see this. We see it bedded up there. And it's alive. And it's just. And I'm. And right. So we had the wherewithal. I guess. To back out. We went back there. And did something. We came back. And it's laying dead. Right in it's bed. And so then here's Aaron and I. And my dad. Back then in outdoor life. He had those cartoon things. You know. That you could read. You know. They had a cartoon page about. Usually it was like. Some guy got charged by a bear. Or attacked by something weird. Well this one was how to get a deer. And there's Aaron and I. At 1411.

We have this thing out in the bushes. We got the coloring book. You got your outdoor life. Are you serious? No. Just the two pages that we torn out. My dad said. If you kill one. He's thinking. Hank. Gonna kill one. Yeah. He's like. If you do. Here's the stuff. This is how you get a deer. And we had that open. In the bushes. No way. First. Number one. Roll the deer on his back. Spread his legs open. So we got it positioned like that. If you can imagine. And then you start reaming. And so we're reaming. And there's pee coming out. And we're like. Wow. That didn't say that's going to happen. You punctured some kind of sack out of him. There's yellows all over the meat now. And then you start going up. And you try to put your fingers in a V. Behind your knife. So you're not puncturing. And that doesn't matter. There's still puncture stuff. And then I get in there.

And I see my arrow blowing up the stomach. It's a mess. So. Somehow we got it out. And we drug that thing. We have blood. Aaron and I look like. We've. You know. Been butchering chicken. It looks like we butchered 50 chickens. You know. We have blood from head to toe. As we grab this little feller. He's probably now. With his guts out. He's probably 75 or 80 pounder. And we drug him that three quarters of a mile back to the cabin. Now we got to skin him. Right. So we got him roped up. And we're skinning him. And then my dad rolls. And he's like. And his jaw hits the ground. He's just like. What the crap. And I still look back at it now. Because my boy. You have a boy that age. I'd be proud. It'd be like. Justin and Ashley. That's basically the age you're talking. Yes. They go kill a deer on their own. Yes. Pretty amazing. Get it back to camp. And they're skinning it.

And it's back at camp. Oh yeah. With the chest cavity. I don't know if there was lungs and heart up there. I didn't know at that point. Oh they didn't get past. You didn't get past. Maybe there was no diaphragm. I don't know. You didn't get past the diaphragm. I don't remember. But anyway. Good times. I've got a funny story about those caribals. So. Same basic country. Adam. I'm on the La Salles. Yeah. You were down in San Juan. Yeah. San Juan Abajo. Yeah. I'm on the La Salles. You and I. We were probably sitting in tree stands or archery hunting with the same equipment. Just one mountain range apart. Back in the day. Well. Because they were made in Moab, Utah. Yeah. And I lived in Moab. In Monticello. You lived in Monticello. I didn't even. Of course. That was our local bow company. Yeah. That was the only bow shop in southeastern Utah. And they made them. Yeah. So I'm sitting up there.

This is back in my human trail camera days. And I'm up there swinging in an aspen. Right. And I've got my caribow. So. And these deer come in. And I'm over a salt lick. And these deer come in. And I'm swinging away. Right. And they come in. And this one buck is freaking stud. I can still picture him. He's got a big old swirling drop tine. No way. Yeah. Corkscrew. Probably. I want to say it's 14 incher. Like a corkscrew drop tine. And I'm like. I'm going to crush this thing. But then I start shaking. Right. I get buck fever. I used to get the worst buck fever. We can have a podcast on buck fever. How to overcome that. But anyway. I'm sitting up there. And I'm starting to shake. And I'm starting to shake. And I go to pull my bow back. And I can't get it back. Okay. And I can't get it back. And he's sitting there. I'm licking this white salt block. And I'm like.

I've got to get this one.

It's probably a 45 pounder as well. Yeah. I mean just like. It's a 50 maybe. I'm like. I'm getting this bull back. Come back or high water. And I mean. I get it back. And I'm back there. And I'm like. Oh now. I'm just shaking. I mean the whole. And I get it roughly on the deer. And you cut. My fingertips. And I just let her loose. And it freaking hits it in the hip. And bounces out. It bounced out. There's my arrow. I could use it again. That's awesome. There's a $10 round. It didn't even bend. Because they were all aluminum. They were all aluminum. X-75s. They're game getters. And I was using Thunderhead 125s. And that's what my dad used. I was using the Bear Razorheads. Remember they're like. They felt three and a half inches long. Remember those. You had to sharpen them. Oh we had. Yeah. The hair. My dad told me how to sharpen them. We used. You cut the hair on your arm.

When it cuts the hair on your arm. They're good to go. You're like. How hard do I got to press? Geez. You'd have bald arms. Oh no. I had scrapes. Scrapes and cuts. And the Zwicky. Yes. It was a Zwicky fixed heads. And bears. And the Thunderhead 125s for us. And so anyway. This thing. It bounced off of his hip. And they just kind of trotted over there. And looked back at me. And I'm like. I suck. Boom. I suck. How far would you guess? What was that shot? Oh. 20? 25 yards. Or something stupid. And it was a special deer. I just. Anyway. Probably. One of the better deer to come. Beyond Zachary. I don't know. Yeah. Zachary property back then. But anyway. That's my Carol Bowles story.

Chris. What do you got for us? Chris is shaking his head over here. Chris is thinking. It's like. I don't even remember Carol. Yeah. Bear razor heads. Thunder heads. Zwicky's. Zwicky. The first bow I shot was a brownie. Oh. We lived in Morgan, Utah. Now that I look back. I'm like. That's a pretty nice bow. Oh yeah. Oh. We started shooting brownies. Because they had some hybrid. Carol would use like browning risers. But you then use Carol limps. So I called mine the Carol brown. Yeah. We called it the Carol brown. All I knew was mine was painted in aspen leaves. Literally. It was bright. Bright green. Bright green. My riser was matte black. Like a powder coated matte black. What do you want. The limbs. Kind of cool. Were gloss. Oh. Black but gloss. Yeah. So I had to paint them with that chintzy paint that peeled off. So it looked like crap after you packed it around a while.

So Chris is browning. Chris is browning. I mean. That 10 years between when you guys first were going and when I did must have a lot changed. Oh. It was probably 20 years, Chris. It probably was. No. 15. Probably was 15. All right. So your first archery hunter. What are we talking about here? Where are we going with all this? Well. I was just talking about the bow. The bow is. Equipment. How much different it was from when I started. That bow was actually a pretty decent bow. Oh yeah. It had. It was super light poundage but it worked and it was actually painted with matte camo. Yeah. A browning. Yeah. Because browning was right there in my hometown. And went and picked up that little browning bow and learned how to shoot on it. Better rip. Mm-hmm. When did composite stocks come out? For rifles? Yeah. Mine was. We were back in the wood stock. We were all wood.

Mine had a 700 BDL which all it meant was that you could eject shells out the floor plate instead of having to shuck them like the ADLs. But that was mine. 270. My first real gun. So I shot that buck. That first big buck in all three in Nevada with the one I sold Chris. This is a classic. And that was my first real gun. And Chris is like, Jason screwed me. And I didn't. But it worked fine for me. So I don't understand. Anyway, it was a Remington 700. I thought this was the ultimate. Remington 700 chambered in a 300 Weatherby Mack. Yeah. 300 Weatherby Mack. That's awesome. Kick. I thought it was awesome. Kick like this. It was really good if you could get a shell into the chamber. Well, okay. So what happens, this chamber was interesting. And so I would buy a box of shells and I'd rack them all through it. And then there would be three or four that wouldn't work, right? In a factory.

Even in a factory box. No, 100% factory. We didn't even. We didn't even. Reload. No. Heck no. And I remember I took that. I don't actually remember my Oregon sheep in 2004. Oh, yeah. I shot it with that gun. Single shot. Trophy bonded bear. Claw. Yeah, bear claw. That's what I shot it with. And it was, I think, a silver case or something. Anyway, another one of those gifts that sometimes you just feel like. It was meant to be. If we used nowadays the equipment we had back then, even in 04, even in 03, 2000, whatever. I mean, you. I remember. I mean, you're. Oh, yeah. You're. I mean, you're. 20 years is amazing. Well, I remember. I was doing in the hunting industry. I remember, Miss. You grew up hunting the La Salle's, as did I, because it was an open bull unit. Yeah. And I remember I was about 16. And I had that set up, the 270, regular 270 win. Remington with a fixed four Leopold.

And I remember coming up on this raghorn bull. Probably four or five point. Not very far. And I missed it. And it was like monumental. It was like crushing for a week, because you remember little Salles, to kill a bull on the general was like, you won the Super Bowl. Oh. It was, right? The big bull contest. The big bull contest is usually won by a five by six. Yes. That's what I mean. First year five by six. So a branch down. I mean, and I missed it. And it's just, just because, you know, you get down a rest, you don't have a range finder. And it was crushing. And it wasn't even a big elk. But to be 16 and to kill an elk, like if, even if somebody's dad killed an elk on the Lasals, everybody in town knew about it. Because there was only five people in Monticello, roughly, that would kill one over there. You know, and it wasn't just like that anywhere.

It was, it was, it was basically everywhere. It was hard to kill a decent bull. I killed a spike. Well, I was, I was on a muzzleloader kick. And I'm like, I'm going to kill everything in my life with a muzzleloader and this and that. And I did. I killed a, I killed a lot of stuff with a muzzleloader when I was young. I mean, I shot this spike in Colorado and I aimed for the heart at 125 yards. I hit him in the heart. I mean, you know, I was like in this one, I was a little kid, but yeah, you'd be considered unethical using the gear we use back then. Nowadays, you, people would look at you and call you out on social media for being unethical. I mean, you know what I mean? That's right. It didn't crush you. So anyway, kind of crazy how times have changed. I want to just run back to buck fever, buck fever. I had a real problem with buck fever. I still do occasionally.

It doesn't, it doesn't change. But nowadays I see my sheet video. Was it? Yeah. Which round, Jeff?

I don't remember. I don't remember. It was like round number nine that I actually killed. Actually. Well. I hit him four times. Before. Out of? Nine. A good volley. Nine. Well, and how far? No. I started at 200. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. My heart was pumping so hard. I know. Dusty's sitting there and he's looking, he looks at me. He's like, shoot. And I'm like, I can't. And he's like, why? And I'm like, because every time my heart beats, the scope jumps three feet over his back. I'm like, I can't calm down. I am like breathing. I'm thinking of everything I can do to try to calm down. The worst thing that could happen is somebody in your ear going, he's going to get away. What are you doing? The worst thing that happened with me, I had all the time in the world. And I was just, dude, this is after like 15 days of grinding. I finally find this ram I want to kill.

And dude, I am seriously, I am sitting there, video cameras on. And I'm watching the crosshairs go like this with every heartbeat. And I'm like, I don't know how. I'm like, I'm trying to hold the gun lightly. I'm trying to hold the gun heavy. I'm trying to lean up against stuff. I'm trying to, and I've got bipods. And I've got, and I'm just like, and I can't, if I touch the gun, it's jumping all over the map. So A, one thing you shouldn't shoot. Okay. And then B, B, from back in the days from guiding guys, is the worst thing you can have is a guide yelling in your ear to shoot. He's going to get away, hurry up, hurry, get fast, fast, fast, fast. What are you doing? They can't find him. And so it's always just calm voices. You know, you're fine. You've got all the time in the world. You've got to walk them through it. And then I walk myself through the shot.

When I'm by myself, I'm talking to myself, chill out. You're going to miss him. You know, in, in 20 seconds, you're either going to be a zero or a hero. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so, and then part of it too was, um, I was spending a lot of time, Adam and I, you know, guiding in our early years and whatnot and hunting, trying to hunt as much as we can maintain a young family broker than crap. And so I'd be like, okay, if I make this shot count, I can go home and I'm a hero. My wife thinks I'm awesome. I've saved a little bit of money and I might be able to do this again. Right. Or I can miss, spend another two weeks out here, risk getting a divorce and be broken. Okay. So there's so everybody has different buttons that all of a sudden makes them get completely calm. Yes. And I'm like, I've got to kill this thing and then get buck fever. And for the most part, I'm getting buck fever.

I start shaking 30 seconds after. And then when I realized what all happened, but I try to gloss over and just go and kill mode. Anyway. This is a cow elk. I say that to a lot of clients. This is just like a cow elk. You know, it's not usually a lot. Minus the udder. Well, yes. But I mean, you're just trying to talk them through the fact that this is not a 220 inch mule deer. However, it might go 230. Or this is not a 170 inch ram in a unit that's known for 160s. This isn't a once in a lifetime draw that you spent 56 years applying for. It's just a cow elk. Nothing special. No pressure. Nothing sexy about the hunt. It's just mechanical. It's just the bench. You're just shooting a cow elk for the freezer. Talk them through. I don't know if it works or not. But anyway. Usually, you've got to try to dummy it down. But anyway. That's another topic maybe. We've got. Yeah. So anyway.

Well, that's about it for the ramblings today. Chris, do we got anything? We need to throw out a little shout out here. Yeah. We're coming down to the end of. This is. There's nothing else really left to apply for. A few state raffles. One of which being the Wyoming Super Tag Raffle. They have a tag for every big game species. Even a couple of the others that like bears and lions. The sheep, moose, goat. Or the trifecta. Or the deer, elk, antelope, moose. All those. Bison. The deadline to apply for those is July 1st, 2019. Super Tag Tickets are $10 per individual ticket per species. Or $30 each for the trifecta. There's also. You can go online to wgfd.wyo.gov backslash epic outdoors. Buy those again by July 1st, 2019. They'll be drawn within a week or two after that. We always have a hunter or two in our January issue that wins one of these Super Tags. A member.

So it's real people at the end of these. So I encourage you to get something in. If you've got a few bucks you want to throw towards something like that. We had the Idaho draw results come out. It was pretty awesome. We've got guys that have drawn significant elk and deer tags. Super excited for them. And if you draw Arizona, we want to hear from you. If you drew Idaho, you haven't called in, we want to hear from you. We can help you get started. Also, hit up Chris. Any questions as far as getting over buck fever? Any questions about going on your first hunt? We want to talk about that in a future podcast as far as the basics. Kind of dummy it down just a little bit and maybe talk about some of the things we might take for granted a little bit. And that's kind of hard to do just because you're in your own forest. But anyway, if you have any questions, hit up Chris.

Chris at epicoutdoors.com or social media. Hit our epic hunts. Epic is it underscore hunts? Yeah, epic underscore hunts. Instagram. Send a direct message. I'll save all those. And then when it comes time to do another podcast like that, then I'll pull those questions out. It's already scouting time. If you guys need Digiscope setup, don't forget the guys at Phonescope. P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P-E dot com. We've got them all in our packs. It didn't happen if you didn't get a picture or video of it. So check it out. That's another thing about missing. You know, you can talk about missing. And they're like, it didn't happen. If you didn't kill it, they're kind of like, oh, yeah, that may or may not have happened. It may or may not be as big as you say. Things like that comes to mind. You know what I mean? And so it's like, anyway, same thing with Phonescope.

If it didn't video and you're like, dude, I saw a big sucker. It's like, he may or may not have. It may or may not have happened. I'm calling BS. So anyway, take Phonescope. Make sure you can prove that it happened. And avoid all the ridicule of your boats. Do want to talk about MOA rifles. Super good guys making 1,000-yard rifles. We went up, took their course. Well worth it. One of the best courses I've ever been to. So that Bob Beck puts it on, knows what he's doing. And you will come away with something. You will learn something at this. I don't care how good you shoot. It's always nice to get a group of guys in the room that talk about, know about, and do it. And so other guys that are in the course are usually hunters like yourselves, serious guys that are looking to up their game a little bit. And it does teach you a lot. So anyway, MOARifles.com, 541-526-1820.

And we'll go from there. Chris, you got anything else for us, buddy? We need to hear from you a little more. Of course, you can't get a word in edgewise here. It's tough. It's tough sometimes. We do need to talk about that Browning bow a little bit more. Of course, the .300 Weatherby that was amazing. We need to talk about it a little bit more. It shot pretty decent once you got a shell in it. Shot great is a single shot. You know, this wasn't even a custom rifle. This was an out-of-the-box with lots of probably metal filings within the action. I don't know. Just one of those things. I will share this one story. So do you remember the buck in Colorado that was the big typical that I passed the first day? Giant. You got video clips. In fact, maybe we'll throw up a video clip of him. That thing haunted me. It has haunted me for years. Still haunts you. Still does.

Anyway, I got on that deer. I had the rifle. I was at 400 yards. I think one of your buddies dumped this deer, right? Yeah. I don't mean to throw solid wood, but keep going. The next year. The next year. Low blow. So I'm sitting there, and I go to put in a shell, and it jams. I remember this story. The deer is walking across this window. It's probably a 100-yard window, and I just watched it walk across the whole thing. And I'm sitting there trying to get this shell in, trying to get this shell in. It was a 400-yard easy shot, right? And I can't do it. And finally, the deer walks out of sight. I get the gun sorted out, and fog closes in. And then, geez. That was the last chance. Cost you a deer. Cost me a deer. Yeah. How does that make you feel, Jason? I'm glad it wasn't me. And that's why Jason sold the gun. I knew there was a reason I sold that gun. I'm sorry. Buy or beware.

No implied warranty. If you see a 300 Weatherby in a Remington 700 out there, don't buy it. And it's a synthetic with a stainless. It's a stainless with synthetic. It was good looking. It was really. Oh, it was the latest. Factory gun. Yeah, it was factory. Really? I sold it. But you had it worked on. I had it. So before I sold it, I felt bad selling it. So before I sold it. And keep in mind, it didn't give me the grief it gave Chris. I wouldn't have sold it to you. Yeah, yeah. It didn't. I did. I thought it was that particular brand of ammo that it just wouldn't fit. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so I would chuck them through and be like, 15 out of 20 is good. See, and I didn't do that either. So, you know. But before I sold it, I took it to a guy that's. He's a very, very accomplished gunsmith. And I took it to him and had him sort it out. And then I sold it.

But I just didn't want the feelings associated with that gun. It probably cost me too dear. And I was just like. Even though it's sorted out, I would just as soon use this as a handyman. Yeah, exactly. Even though it's sorted out, I just have bad feelings with this gun. I don't want it anymore. I've sold guns like that. Oh, yeah. That just. I'm done with that gun. It just. Something happened and you're like, no more. Just as soon. Jack your truck up in a mud hole. Throw it in the void and then let your truck back down on it. Yeah. You know what I mean? To get yourself out. Just to fill the rut up. Instead of a tree branch in there, put the gun in there and be done with that. Never to be hurt of again. Anyway. All right. That's it. Sounds good. Good luck in Arizona. JOY JOY