EP 130: Being Consistent in Hunting with Brock Rowley

I've seen from August 1st, August 10th, bucks grow 30 inches. I call to locate every now and again, but as far as calling it goes, I don't call hardly at all. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter and Chris Peterson here in the Epic Outdoors office here in Southern Utah, coming at you bright and early this morning. We've got a fun guest on. Going to be visiting with old Brock Rowley of Nevada. So anyway, had a few guys ask for a younger generation maybe on the podcast guest, right Chris? That's you, Brock. Yeah, you're it. You're it. So anyway, we got a millennial on. We're going to see what kind of words of wisdom he can drop on us. Of course, anybody that's followed Brock knows he's a killer. He's guided some of the biggest animals taken in the state or at least been a part of them and scouted for him, followed him for several years and so super excited for this podcast. He's up and coming. He's a predator out there. So anyway, been following Brock's success for many years, multiple years,

and he's full of piss and vinegar and killing everything that gets in front of him. So anyway, before we get started, I want to thank Under Armour for sponsoring this podcast. We appreciate them. Their support of us here at Epic Outdoors, go on to UA.com, type in hunting gear, or you can go to under men's and sports and hit hunts or hunting, and everything will come up. Sometimes I type in Baron in the search, and up comes, you know, the different options there to buy and purchase clothing, boots, things like that. Tell us a little bit of history about yourself. You know, where'd you grow up? How'd you get started in hunting? What else you do, if anything, and how things are going this year? Well, I was born and raised in eastern Nevada around the Ewing area. I've lived there, obviously, my whole life until now, 27 years old, still here.

Just my family on both sides, my mother's and father's side, hunted from as long as anybody can remember. So it's just been instilled in me, and that's what I've always wanted to do. Right on. And so is that, I mean, you graduated high school, went straight into guiding, or give us a little bit of that transition on how you ended up. Yeah, I graduated high school in 2010 and went, I mean, from the age of 12, I mean, even probably before that, I knew what I really wanted to do is hunt. So I went right into guiding and been going at it now for the 10th year now. So I was looking on your Instagram, and I saw a picture of a 30-inch buck in the back of a red pickup truck with a little kid holding it. Right. What's the story on that? That was a buck my dad had killed when I was about four years old. He killed it with a mother loader in a really tough unit in eastern Nevada here.

And it's just been one of my favorite pictures I've ever had of myself. That's you, right, in that picture? Yeah, that's me. That's pretty cool. It describes me perfect. How old were you, did you say? I think I was four years old. Yeah, you probably even found it for him and guided him to it. You've got an early start, huh? Yeah. You know, I wasn't even talking until after I was three years old, Brock. So, you know, I know I'm unusual, but anyway, they say I didn't say anything until I was three years old, so who knows? And your first word was probably deer or something like that. Yeah, deer or kill or meat or whatever. Well, that's awesome. And so, yeah, you've been doing it forever, it sounds like. Well, tell us about, do you remember your first hunt or, you know, the first hunt that you went on and had a tag? The first hunt I can remember being on is probably around 99.

I guess I was probably around seven years old. My mom and dad both had 11 weight deer tags, and that was like the top unit around where I was from at the time. Yeah. So it was like a really premier tag, and we were more weekend warriors. We didn't hunt hard like we do now, you know, so that's the first hunt I can remember. The rut was really good. My dad missed a couple giant bucks. My mom killed a pretty good buck, but that's really the first hunt that I can clearly remember. First hunt you can remember, 1999 was the first year I killed, like my first 200-inch deer was 1999. When you were, how old did you say you were? I was seven years old. Seven. Seven. So anyway, so from there, how did you kind of get into guiding? I mean, was it through high school you started out spending time? My dad actually started guiding, it had to be around 98, 99.

Around that time he actually started guiding with Thomas Brunson Timberline Outfitters. Okay. When they first started opening up, they were really good friends. They lived really close to us there in McGill. And so I knew what I wanted to do from an early age. I loved hunting growing up. I was pretty fortunate with the job my dad had in that, that I could spend as much time in the mountains as I did. And that, I mean, my love for hunting just grew and grew and grew and it's still growing today, you know. So I became really good friends with Trevor Marks at an early age as well. When I moved to Ely, because I lived in McGill for a few years and then moved to Ely and Trevor Marks through sports and stuff. He's quite a bit older than I am, but became good friends. And, I mean, we always knew the Marks brothers and pretty envious of them because of what they were doing in the early days.

So, got in with them guys and haven't looked back since. So you've been guiding with them since you started guiding. Yeah. And this is, like I said, going on 10 years now with them. So your dad was with Thomas a little bit when he started in 98, 99. And then as you got old enough to guide, you had already become friends with Trevor through sports and whatnot. You started in with Bull Ridge. Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean, I'm still great friends with Thomas. Yeah. But just different career paths for my dad led him to not guide anymore really that much at the time. So then when I became good friends with Trevor, then, you know, kind of jumped in with them guys. Nice. So you, I mean, you got a solid 10 years in this. Yeah. Full time, too. I mean, that's all I've done from the, I mean, middle of July, basically, till the middle or end of December every year for 10 years now.

So with 10 years under your belt, I know you've seen a lot of stories and you've been able to go on a lot of hunts. Is there one that is the most memorable for you? What hunt stands out the most in all those 10 years? Probably not even guiding wise. My mom killed a buck in 2016 with me in a not a great unit. It's a really tough unit to hunt, not known for really big deer. And we killed a 205 inch typical net book buck. And the same day out of the same group we killed, my 13 year old cousin had a tag as well. And she killed a 185 inch net typical out of that group as well. Jeez. And the bucks died like 40 yards apart. So that's pretty memorable. Well, 2016 was the good year. That was, you know, one of the one of the good years, kind of like 2011. Hopefully 2019. Hopefully 2019. Yeah, 16 was an insane year.

That was the first year that I was actually on a 200 inch buck with like a hunter next to me, you know, that I got to kill. So it started a whole different obsession for deer. And it happened to be your mom, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So. And I mean, earlier that year, we'd ran cameras and stuff. And my Dutch friend killed a monster buck with his bow too. So that was kind of the start to everything. So did she tip you?

She raised me well.

Well, that's good. She's a killer. She's a great time to hunt with. So. So you said. Yeah, that's. Man, that's a giant. That's a giant. 205 inch net book. Yeah, it's a monster. Probably, like I said, one of my favorite deer that I've ever had my hand on. So. That's cool. That's saying a lot because I know you've, you guys, you've been in on some big kills. So you said Trevor's quite a bit older than you, although I still look at Trevor as, as almost a millennial, kind of like Chris here. That's awesome. So tell us, I mean, not just take you. So it takes it to another level, but tell us a little bit about Dallas's buck. Maybe, you know, where you, you know, that wasn't that the same year? Yes, it was the same year. So 2016, Dallas had drew an archery tag for 22. So this is Dallas Lewis. I mean, you guys, just for the, just for the listeners, you guys are pretty tight. You're good friends.

I mean, it's definitely my best friend through school, everything, you know, I've known him for 20 years now. It's crazy to say 20 years. I'm only 27, but I've known him for 20 years. Since you were seven. Yeah. And I mean, I hit it off from the very get go and he's got the same drive I do hunting wise. So that, I mean, it's a huge thing and good help when I have Dallas around, he works way too much, but it's good to have him around. Wow. Well, right on. So, so he, he, I mean, is this his first big deer 2016 as well? Yeah. So in 2012, we had both drew 22 archery deer tags. And at that time we weren't like really serious in the scouting and, I mean, too busy screwing around with everything else at the time. And, uh, I actually killed a pretty good buck that year in 2012 and he didn't have much time off of work. So we hunted when we could with him.

And then after I killed my buck with my bow, it got him going. Like he really wanted to get into it a lot harder than we ever were, you know? So 2012, that was 2012. Yeah. 2012 was a tough year. It was a really tough year. I, uh, I scouted pretty hard for my own tag and found some good bucks. And the buck that I killed wasn't the biggest buck that I'd found, but it was the easiest buck that I felt like I could kill. And I ended up killing him like the first hour of the first morning of the hunt. So, and then, um, what, what made him easy? What made him easy? He was patternable. I mean, he fed in the same flat every morning, went into the tree line within like 300 yards every morning. And I knew what was going to happen, you know? So, so you put, so were you just on the edge of the tree line or? I actually found him in the flat at daylight and then circled around and got in front of him.

Yeah. On the tree line and got an arrow into him and killed him. So, so then Dallas has, has a tag as well. Yeah. And he kind of hopped for the first, I don't know, week and a half of the hunter. So, and one of my other really good buddies actually had to tag that year too. And I think two days later we killed 198 inch buck at 22. And I'd never seen that buck scouting or anything, you know, just got crazy lucky. So now Dallas is really like fired up and we hunted our guts out for the time off that he had and just never got anything killed. So fast forward to 2016 when he drew 22 archery again, we knew we had to step up our game and buy a bunch of cameras and run a bunch of cameras. Cause he literally told me when he drew the tag, I want to find and kill the biggest buck in the unit. So. And you're like, okay, let's go back. You know, you're working 90 hours a week. Yeah.

How are you going to, how are you going to do this Dallas? And he says, well, I've got a good friend. That's a guide named Brock. So, you know, we, I think we had like 15 cameras at the time, which to me was a lot, but I mean to everybody else, that's my news. So we were on our 15 cameras and I had actually had a picture of his buck the year before setting cameras for elk. And, uh, anyway, we found a couple of giant deer in 22 that year. We were into some territory that we'd never stepped foot in and everything like that. Just knowing what could be on the Southern end and everything else. Well, we had a buck that I actually seen one morning driving around, never knew the buck was there at all. And, uh, that became our first choice buck. It was a huge typical pride close to, I know it was a book book head, but I mean, close to 200 inch typical.

So that was our first choice buck until I got a picture of his buck that we knew was there. We didn't know it was there. From the year before. Yeah. So 2015, what, what did you figure he was? Uh, mid nineties probably. Jeez. He grew, he grew a ton. I mean, I figured he was a younger deer. Yeah. The, cause he, I mean, he was patternable too. He hit water almost every day in the daylight. Like it was crazy. So I didn't have a great picture of him at first. I had a really shady picture and, uh, Dallas is at work at this time and I'm running cameras looking high and low for a buck for him. And, uh, I actually went and built a blind to hunt that 200 inch typical thinking that that was by far the best buck we had. And he was hitting water in the daylight as well. Jeez. So Dallas got on his days off and we went to go check the camera where his buck was at the time.

And we had really good pictures of him now. And I mean, everything changed. That was where we were going to be. He was going to, he had, I think 14 or 17 days off to hunt that particular deer. And it was pretty crazy. There was no other cameras around on the water hole or anything. And I mean, this, this water hole is really close to town. So, um, monsoon season hit and we didn't have that buck on camera for 14 or 15 days leading up to the hunt. So Dallas was a nervous wreck. I'm a nervous wreck because I have cameras on every other spring around there and the buck never hit anywhere. So can you glass him? Is it a glass? No, it was incredibly thick. There's absolutely no way to kill this deer unless he came into water. Wow. So the, I think the third evening of his hunt, he was sitting water. I was out running around elsewhere and buck came in and he killed him.

And at the time we thought he was like 225 ish. And then we had some other pictures that we kind of thought like 210, 215. And then, so later on that night, he gives me a call, says he hit the buck. And I was in complete disbelief because the buck had never hit water for, you know, 16 days. And then finally just shows up. He shows up and you're saying that Dallas was sitting in a blind and, and hit him. And yeah, so the buck came in the water, Dallas was sitting in the blind and hit him and he didn't track him or anything. He actually watched the buck run over and lay down, but he backed out of the blind, backed out, walked down and got service and got ahold of me, told me that he didn't push him or anything like that. So we, I mean, there was a bunch of us that ended up going up there to recover the buck and he was dead right where Dallas had watched him lay down. Oh my gosh.

So at that time, that was by far the biggest buck that I had ever seen on the ground. And still to this day is the biggest buck I've ever seen on the ground. And I mean, I knew right away our estimate of 225 was way low. So that was pretty cool. So about where do you end up at?

235 gross. Wow. It's like 231 net in the velvet with a 2%, like 226 net-ish. So that 2%, that's for the Nevada record book. And entering into that, they also have the Carson Award, Kit Carson Awards, who are silver buckles. Yeah. Silver buckle, gold buckle, bronze buckle. Yeah. So they'll let you enter velvet animals, but, you know, but they give you a 2% deduction. So you'll compete with the hard horn, right? Right. Just for people that don't know. And so you guys netted him. He ended up netting official, if you will, you know. 226 and 3-8, I believe. I mean, I could be wrong by. Right in there. But yeah. Somewhere right down there. With the deduct, with the deduct. And that was after a 60-day drying period. He ended up number one in the state that year, or what was he? It was the number one buck entered in the state that year. Wow.

There were some other giants killed as well that didn't get entered. Yeah. How awesome is that? Entered, it was the biggest buck. Yeah. So then, after that buck, I mean, I was really hooked on deer at that time. And my mom had a tag that year for 11 early. And another buddy of mine had a 241 through 245 deer tag. And I ended up being on some giants that year. So, but. You were telling us about this other big buck that was, that you were watching that same year. Do you know what happened to that buck? The typical. Yeah, the typical. As far as I know, he's still alive. But I have not laid eyes on him since 2016. I've never had another. And where he was hitting cameras, I guess, I should say, it was running water. So, we had multiple cameras set up on running water. And he only hit one camera every time. And that water now is flowing like crazy. And just, we haven't laid eyes on him again.

Pretty hard to get a picture of a buck on running water. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, you get streams, that's a problem. Which this year, there's streams everywhere. Is that what you're finding? It is insane out there. I feel like running cameras right now is completely useless. Yeah, it is. That's what I'm finding, too. It's pretty disgusting. But you're still doing it. Well, yeah. You've got to run cameras or you're not a hunter, right? Just training. Especially when you've got a deadline on July 31st. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be interesting to see what really shows up and what everybody has to hunt. Well, I think the camera thing. Yeah. So, for a lot of guys out there, you'd be surprised how many questions I get about guys that have drawn a tag this year and don't even know if there's a camera law. And so, anyway, but, you know, obviously we've got to quit running trail cams.

Everybody does. It's July 31st. And so, there's no running cameras from August 1st through December 31st for the purpose of hunting, yada, yada, yada. But, anyway, I've seen, I mean, this year, so we love the weather. Everybody's super, super pumped. Well, the weather never shut off for, you know, people that haven't been out there and here in southern Utah. And we have, there's an abundance of water so much so nobody knows really what's out there, you know. I mean, you can go back to glassing and stuff. But even that, I'm finding these deer aren't in traditional areas because there's a lot of feed within the trees too, in the thick trees. There's a ton of feed. Absolutely. I mean, there's water where I've never, ever seen water this year. So, it's really, really tough. I think super ineffective to even run cameras, like I said. But you've got to do it. That's an advantage.

And scouting overall, have you noticed, I'm trying to figure out if anybody's really been able to gauge the status of the deer this year yet. We've all been talking about the moisture and how it's going to be great. But have you been able to kind of tell where those deer are at? I've actually seen better bucks for sure this year than last year. I mean, that's a given. But as far as overall, I don't, it's not crazy to me yet, like growth-wise. I have a really hard time because I've seen bucks that I feel like are 90% done growing. So, I'm curious to see how others do, you know, in different parts of the state. It's early. There's no question. I've seen, and this kind of moves into a different subject for a sec, but, you know, I've seen from August 1st to August 10th, bucks grow 30 inches. You know what I mean? Wow. That's big.

That goes from a non-shooter to a monster, you know, in 10 days or 15 days. Right. And I'm curious to see if that is going to be the trend this year on most of the deer. Like I said, I've seen quite a few deer that I feel like are just about done. But this early in the game. Wow. Crazy.

Crazy. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see. What about bulls? What are you seeing growth-wise out there? I know you're in on some giant bulls. We can, you know, but what are you seeing growth-wise there because they're getting about done?

It's not crazy. I'm curious to see what the bulls in the southern country do. But the bulls, it seems like, in this northern country where I live and spend most of my time looking for elk, wet years, dry years, it doesn't seem to affect overall growth as much. I think their horns are brittler. But, like, as far as this year, bulls are the same as they were last year, bulls that I've known about. As far as right now, I mean, there's a lot of bulls that I still need to find to see what they did. But 85% of the bulls that I've seen this year that I've seen over the last few years have not changed much at all. Well, and I want to, let's talk about elk a little bit. You've been in on, I mean, obviously some giant bulls. Giant bulls. I mean, Dallas killed one. You've guided numerous big bulls. Let's just talk about kind of that elk hunting experience a little bit.

And you may be young, but you're, like, you've been in on some of the biggest bulls. You've followed bulls multiple years. And so you know what you're talking about. And I want to just kind of dive into that a little bit on your elk hunting experience, Alan Shearer, Dallas, and some of these other big, big bulls that you've been chasing. And just visit about that a little bit. The past five years, it feels like, you guys have been really keen on it. Yeah, I mean, the first couple years guiding, I didn't take it too seriously. And it didn't seem like we had the bulls that we do around the last couple years anyway. Like, if you were killing a .380 bull, it was unreal, you know. And until about 2013-ish, I guess we killed a giant. I take that back. In 2011, I think we killed, no, 2012, we killed a giant, like, 416 gross, 405 net bull with the guv tag.

And, I mean, that, to me, you guys are going to call me crazy. I like walking up to a 400-inch bull way more than over a 200-inch buck. Like, I'm one of them guys, and I won't change from it. Well, when you put a 400-inch on the ground and the mass and just the overall, I mean, there is something super special about it. It's unbelievable to me. So, after that, we've had the guv tag here in Nevada a few years. In a few years, we didn't have the guv tag, and we had some absolute monster bulls, and we didn't end up killing them. Monster bat killed them. Fast forward to 14, I guess 2014, there was some really giant bulls. We were hunting giant bulls and killed one bull that was right at 400. Trevor killed it with his bow. He had an archery tag that year. And that's, like, one of my favorite memories in my hunting bank, too, is hunting with him side by side was pretty cool.

Tell us about that a little bit. Maybe tell us about that bull and the story behind that. So, in 2014, we had a couple bulls that were absolute monsters, like 430-inch, 430-inch type bulls. But where they were at, it was really tough hunting because of boundaries and that, and the guv tag knew about the bull. Yeah. So, with Trevor, he got kind of sick of competing with hunting with a rifle and hunting with a bow. Sure. And we knew if the bull did leave where we could kill him, it was probably going to end up getting shot with a rifle. So, he ended up backing off them and going and trying to find a couple different bulls that we kind of knew about from sheds and hunting just in the past. And, long story short, second to last day, he finds his bull.

After a couple close encounters with it, he finds it bedded and sneaks in and kills it solo, basically. And, I mean, I was around, but I was actually with another hunter. And, that, I got to spend a crazy amount of time with Trevor during his hunt. Just, I couldn't spend all the time with him because of other hunters. So, having clients and stuff. But, I mean, I got to be there basically on the kill. And, that, I mean, that was a monster, like 400-inch gross bull, 390-some change net monster bull. One of the biggest bulls killed with a bow in the state. Jeez, that's awesome. The bull that we were really chasing, it got killed at the GoTag that year. And, it was the new state record at the time. So, I mean, we were on some monsters. Did you say you found, you guys had sheds of Trevor's bull? Yes, we did. Did Trevor find them, or who found them? Trevor and his dad, Chuck, yeah.

What did he grow? I mean, what was he, was he near the same for multiple years? So, I think the first set off of him was around like 2012-ish. Yeah. And, he was actually a 5x6, but grows close to 370. Wow. The next year, 2013, he went up, and we only seen him one time in the rut that year, in 2013. And, he was around 3 to 5, probably, gross. Wow. Close to a book rule, 6.9. And, he shows up the next year, and he looked insanely big in person. And, Trevor knew that, with time running out, and not being able to hunt bulls all the time with a bow, you know, he took the opportunity and killed the bull. So, and we didn't think that he was 400 for sure, but, I mean, it ended up working out on that side. So, the bull put on 25 inches in a couple years. So.

Was he rutting, or what was he? I know he was, he was bedded, but, I mean, was he rutting, or was it before he kind of went to rut, or just kind of. He was rutting. He had, like, four or five cows with him. And, the cows actually took off to go to water, and the bull stayed bedded for an extra 25, 30 minutes. And, Trevor snuck in and got an arrow in him, so. So, when you're hunting those bulls in that rut, how much are you guys calling? Are you finding that effective, or are you just being more passive at it? I hardly ever call. I mean, I call to locate every now and again, but as far as calling goes, I don't call hardly at all. Until I bump something, or, like I said, trying to locate them. Most of the time, it's just spotting stock and chasing bugles. So, that or ambushing them, you know, coming off of water, or they're feeding in the morning.

Yeah, that's one of the things we always kind of think about is, you start calling, you're basically telling them where you're at. Right, exactly. I mean, that's a dead giveaway, to me anyway. Yeah, we've actually had a little bit of luck, cow calling occasionally if you need to. But, we're the same way. Just get in there if you can get close to them. Why tell them you're there? Yeah, exactly. And I mean, a couple of the better bulls that I've killed with archery hunters, I actually called them in after bumping them and stuff, you know, getting them to come back. But, as a whole, I don't do it hardly at all. And you hear other people doing it, and I don't know how they do it, you know. It's crazy to me that some people actually call in bulls all the time and kill them, but I'm not that lucky. Tell us about Dallas' bull a little bit.

So, he's a nut. Like I said, he wants to kill the biggest thing in the unit year in, year out if he has a tag or if one of us has a tag. We're going to try hunting the best thing that we possibly can find. 2017, it was an insane year for bulls. As far as when the hunt came around, scouting, because we had the gov tag that year as well. So, we spent a ton of time scouting for bulls and the silver state tag that year as well. So, we had a couple 400-inch bulls to find, and we had only one bull found that was for sure over 400 by the 1st of August. And we ended up killing it with the silver state hunter. Dallas was getting super nervous because we hadn't found a bull that he liked yet or even close to big enough.

We kind of knew where he was going to hunt opening morning or for basically his whole hunt. I had to take hunters for the first couple weeks, and I told him that I'd hunt last week with him if he hadn't killed a bull. So, opening morning, he set up one of our other guys, Justin Moore, was glassing on the other side of the mountain and finds this bull, gets a hold of Dallas, has him come over and look. The bull already went to bed in a really good spot for the bull to get stalked that night. Well, not knowing how big the bull really was, the video wasn't great. Dallas asked me to come look at video during the middle of the day. He came into town, and I was in town with my hunter having lunch. And as soon as I seen the video, I'm like, you need to get back out there and kill that bull right now. That thing's definitely for a hunter.

So, it took him all of an hour to walk back up there and get the bull killed. Jeez. You know. Come on. It was about a 30-minute walk from the truck and walked up there, and he actually, Cal called. Because the bull, like where the bull was bedded, most of the time they stay there throughout the day. Yeah. But you never know with them during the rut, you know, how much they move and that. Yeah. And there was like really no way to glass into where the bull had bedded without taking a death march, you know, a couple-hour walk. So, yeah, he got up there and Cal called, and the bull answered right away within probably 100 yards. And he got the job done right away. By himself. He finds it, comes back, gets the okay from his best friend, marches back up in there and smokes it. Yeah. I mean, not the okay, but he knows what he's doing. I know, but I'm just saying. It's always nice.

Like, I'm the same way. I run photos and video by guys here in the office all the time. Yeah, sometimes you need a little push. It's always good to have a second opinion, that's for sure. So, him and Justin, you know, got the bull killed that night. And we, it was a pretty tough pack out, but not too bad. And, so, at that time, you know, we had the silver state bull killed. And it was a giant 410-ish bull in the velvet. And then Dallas kills his bull opening morning at the hunt. And then we still have the gov tag. And one of my other best friends had an archery tag as well. So, it was kind of conflicting with Dallas and my other buddy on who I got to hunt with, you know. So, it actually opened the door pretty good with Dallas killing a bull right away. Yeah. Well, we featured him on the cover of the October-November 2018 issue with that bull.

It's one of the prettiest bulls I've ever seen. I guess 7x7's got a little, kind of a little cheater on both swords right there. And right close to the main beam. But just giant front end. Great threes. Just super symmetrical all the way back. Big Fies, sordid, awesome bull. Yeah. Absolute monster. And that bull was pretty crazy. We had seen him in 2014. And he completely disappeared until the day Dallas got him killed. Come on. I'm dead serious. How does something with color and size of a school bus disappear? It happens more often than that. Dude, really? So, they hadn't seen him since 2014. And then in 2017, he happens to be laying there. And they know for a fact identical it is the bull. It's bulls they have sheds of? No. We don't have any sheds. We don't know anybody with the sheds. But it's like I have a few live pictures of him in 2014.

And obviously, when Dallas killed him, it's identical. The bull maybe put on 10 inches is all in that time. And a couple extra years in age, you know. And do you think he left the country? Or was it just something where he was in thick, thick timber and you just weren't able to locate him? Yeah. I think he was right there. Just really thick timber.

There's a lot of stuff there that goes unseen, I believe. That gives the guy hope. Like, it feels like this day and age, you guys and everybody is just good at hunting these animals. And we name them and you guys are naming them. And so it's nice. But it's nice when a bull like this goes unseen for two to three years and pops back up. Or like that typical we're talking about, the 200-inch typical, it's who knows if he's still alive. You know, it's nice to know. I mean, it's nice that there's running streams and that not everything's getting seen. Absolutely. There's still hope. Yeah. Speaking of hope, well, real quick before we leave that. I mean, did he turn that into the record book? Yeah. Dallas actually got the number three buckle. Wow. With his bulls that year. So he's got a couple of buckles. How old is Dallas? Dallas is 28, I believe. I mean, back-to-back years, too.

It's pretty crazy. It's awesome. But let's, I mean, speaking about, you know, covers, yeah, covers and buckles and everything else. But Alan Shearer kills two giants, elk and deer, last year, drought year. And that buck was another one of those. Where'd this buck come from? Tell us a little bit about that. There's, I mean, really not a whole lot to tell. I mean, we got crazy lucky to kill a buck like that, even see a buck like that on a year like last year.

He had a handful of tags last year throughout the state, different parts, you know, different units and that. But spent a crazy amount of time with me looking for Hamlet, the Governor Stag Bull, also looking for deer. You know, every time you see a deer, you have to look at it. Elk wife, too. We did not have anything big for deer at all last year. The best buck I've seen, other than the buck he killed, was probably like 190-inch deer. So, I usually spend about 10 days in the last part of the deer hunts, hunting with Alan Shear.

We're talking end of October to November 8th-ish. Yeah. Okay. So, around the 25th or so of October, I go down and meet up with him and camp with him for the remainder of the deer hunts that he has, you know. And we had a handful of tags in different units. So, we're bouncing around all over the place with no buck really to hunt, to focus on. And Alan's a killer. Like, he can't go without killing something. Oh, he has to kill. So, the 5th of November, we still don't have a buck killed at all the night before the end of the hunt. And we end up killing it as a solid, like, 175 buck. Yeah. So, just to kill something, Alan had to get some blood on the ground. He's a lot of fun. Anybody that knows Alan Shear knows he's out to have a good time. I mean, he'll camp out in Nevada for, like, two months. I'm like, dude, you even got a job? Right.

Yeah, he's very fortunate to do what he does, that's for sure. It's awesome. Anyway. So, bouncing around, walking our guts out every single day, just searching high and low for something special. And we kill that buck on the 5th of November and switch gears back to a different unit that runs a little bit later until the 8th. And we actually seen a pretty good buck. The biggest buck that I've seen last year was in that buck. I've seen the 6th or something of, no, I take that back. I've seen it on the 4th in the morning. So, we had a couple other buddies of ours out looking with us, and we're all spread apart looking. And we get a text over our inreaches that our buddy, that we kind of sent to go look for the buck that we'd seen a couple days prior to see if he could turn it up. And he said that he had a buck that needed a second look.

So, none of us, Marshall McCroskey was with us, Alan Shear, Jason Taylor, we all meet up with Jason because none of us have anything to go after, right? So, sees the buck, goes over a hill by the time he could get a better look at it. And, I mean, this deer was migrating. So, really tough to know where the buck was going to be. Finally meet up with Jason where we need to meet up with him and just start taking the country apart. And get crazy lucky the buck was bedded 250 yards away from us in the wide open, and we got it done. Wow. Crazy. Unbelievable. Wasn't there a story about a water bottle or something in that? Yeah. So, we were all looking to the north where the buck came over the wide open hillside. It was a couple miles away. We kind of figured that the buck came over and bedded on that hill. So, we're sitting there picking a part for close to an hour probably.

And I'm out on a tripod. Alan's looking through his window mount. And I asked him if he could grab my water from the passenger seat, and he couldn't reach it. So, I ended up having to walk around the truck to grab the water bottle. And I grabbed my water bottle and look up on the hill, and there's this buck silhouetted with some bitter brush behind him. And my pens and everything were on the other side of the truck on the driver's side. So, I had to walk back around the truck. But Alan had seen me, like the look that I got on my face when I seen the buck, you know. You seen with the naked eye? With the naked eye, yeah. So, I had to walk back around the truck. Come on. To grab my pens. And I looked. And I mean, I knew immediately the buck had 190 plus inch frame. And it was by far the best buck that we'd seen. So, I told him immediately, just get out and shoot this thing.

Not knowing what it was until I got on my scope. I mean, it took a couple minutes before the buck cleared does and that. And at that time, I knew that the buck was well over 210, you know. So, we get the buck killed. But it just worked out crazy. Well, he went up. He ended up. He ended up going like 225 or 6 or something, didn't he? 220. Nat. 230 gross official and 223 and some change. Okay. All right. That's one of the coolest bucks I've seen in a long time. Just bladed everywhere. Where we actually had it. There's nothing like it that I've ever seen.

I wish you'd have let it grow up a little bit.

Right. Young deer, wasn't it? Didn't you guys figure it was kind of a young deer? Yeah. I don't think it was overly old at all. I think probably a five-year-old deer maybe. We just got inlines and cheaters and everything looks like candle wax and crazy eye guards. And anyway, he's featured on the April issue. We cover April 2019 of Epic Outdoors. But, man, unbelievable. And that's, I guess, kind of, where'd this deer come from? You know what I mean? I mean, where did you? Yeah. Found something to feed on that all the others couldn't find, you know, and had decent water, obviously. Drought year 2018. Worst year in history, it feels like. And you guys grind it out. Of course, nobody, everybody struggled last year. And then to turn up a deer like this, just kind of another one of those, you know, reassuring things. You don't know everything that's out there. Something could still grow.

So, anyway, number one, you know, when you entered into the record book course, number one non-typical last year. Right. It just had to be one of them deer that was watering, you know, on the stream or running water somewhere where no one had cameras. So, yeah. Because, I mean, you have to kill a buck like that with the gov tag. And I know most of the gov tag hunters or guides, you know, have crazy amount of cameras out there. You'd think that that buck would have been found if he was on a tank or something like that. So. Tell us a little bit about his bull last year. So, his bull last year, we had found that bull in 2015. I actually had an archery tag that year. And we hunted him fairly hard. He was around a 400-inch bull that year, like 398 to 402. The sheds had been picked up. So, we know what he was around that time.

And 2016, he actually showed up like 40 miles away. Completely different rutting grounds, different unit, everything. So, 2016, I think, was probably one of the worst years for elk in the history that I've been around, you know. So odd. Incredible moisture. Deer are off the charts, 2016. Right. Yeah. And, I mean, deer are off the charts. And that legitimately was the only 400-inch bull that I had seen that year after, I mean, crazy amount of time scouting as well. So. And there was, I guess, one bull killed in Nevada that year that grossed over 400. Nothing that netted over 400. Crazy. So, we didn't know what the bull, why he left where he was rutting or anything like that. So, it was kind of weird that we had no idea where to look to even find this bull, you know, other than check the previous two rutting grounds that he'd went to 40 miles apart.

So, 2017, he shows up and we find him a few days after Dallas had killed his bull. That's kind of the bull that he actually wanted to really focus on. But his bull showed up and he can't pass up a 400-inch or so he got that bull killed. And in 2017, we hunted Alan's bull really hard but just never could get the stars to the line. And so, I talked to Alan a whole bunch about trying to buy the governor's tag, which I've been trying to do for a long time, since 2010-ish. And he just never would bite the bullet and buy it. So, 2018, we knew a bull. We kind of wanted to hunt if we could get the gov tag and he ended up buying the gov tag. So, that was the bull that we really wanted to find and kill. Look all summer for him. And, I mean, I just really focused on trying to find him and never laid eyes on him in the velvet. Nothing.

I actually got a picture of him on a trail camera from Thomas Brunson, Timberline Outfitters, and he had the Silver State Hunter. Jeez. Why does Thomas – why does Thomas – I mean, I'm just thinking to myself, I'm going to show killers this giant bull. And he's got the Silver State tag. You know what I mean? Right. The picture didn't, like, do him justice. Oh, okay. But, like, I knew right away which bull it was. And we knew from 2015 that he was over 400. And I think – I don't know how many people really knew about him. Like, the bull stayed under the radar. I can't believe he didn't get killed by one of the gov tags in 2016. And then 2017, same thing, you know. We had the Silver State Hunter and then the other gov tagging. We killed bulls before he'd even showed up to rut. So, 2018, Thomas sends me a picture of him in the velvet.

And I'm, like, my mind's going crazy because I've spent, I don't know how many days and hours looking for this bull. And he gets a picture of it. I don't even know if he really knew of the bull or not. But, so, me and Thomas are really close. Like, I tell him just about everything. And it's vice versa, you know. Yeah, he's a great outfitter. We send him clients. I mean, super good guy. Yeah, great guy. Yeah. So, he sent me that picture, I think, around this time last year, like the 4th of July-ish. And the picture was from June 16th. And the bull was already – I'm guessing probably 405, 410-ish, June 16th. So, I'm literally at this point, like, walking to every string I possibly can trying to, like, get the backdrop and find his camera. You know? So, and I don't want to text him and ask about it or if he's seen it again to, like, give it away, you know. Yeah.

And finally, in August 17th, I guess, I grasped the bull. I walked into a canyon and heard a bull bugle and some thick pines. And there was, like, a 385 bull with, like, 40 cows. This is pre-rut, you know. So, it was pretty crazy to see him with cows at that time. Yeah. And heard a bull bugle. No shock there. And we – I was all by myself. Alan – I sent Alan back home because we didn't have anything to kill. He came up the first part of August for the first, like, 10 days or something and just didn't have a bull to kill. And so, the 17th of August, I'm in this canyon and in some really thick timber and 385 bull walks out with a bunch of cows and there's still bull bugling in the pines. And out walks Alan's bull. We call him Carl's Jr. And so, I have my NRAH. I text Alan right away. I'm, like, you need to get back down here as fast as you possibly can from work, you know.

He was in Washington, so it's not like just a hop, skip, and a jump here.

So, I watched the bull the evening of the 17th, find him again the morning of the 18th. I mean, now we know what we're going to do, you know, and trying to get Alan back down there. And I'm worried because the other spotters for the other governor's tag are right around where I'm at. And I have no idea how they've never seen the bull. I don't know if I believe him or not that they didn't see it. But, anyway, Alan finally gets back down there and we can't get the bull killed. The first night he's there, I find the bull. And I'm actually debating on if we're going to kill the bull or not because at first glance, I thought, oh, we want to kill a 400-inch net bull, not just 400-gross. Like, we want 400 net. So, I'm not sure if he's going to make the cut. And we're bouncing around. Finally, the bull gets out.

Trevor actually finds the bull the night of the 21st where it was very killable that night. And I'm on the other side of the mountain looking for him. And Alan's actually in a whole different unit because we couldn't find the bull, you know. So, I have Alan looking elsewhere for different bulls, knowing that at any time they could show up to rut.

Trevor finds the bull and it's a huge panic because Alan's not there. Well, the next morning we walk up and get close to where the bull was that night and he's still there in the morning. And we debated on it for all of probably two minutes if we were going to kill this bull or not. Finally, we're just like, we bought the tag to kill this bull. I mean, if it don't make 400-inch net, then we still get the bull that we want, you know. Yeah. So, we ended up killing the bull. I mean, right away we knew that we smashed 400-inch net as well as gross, you know. So, it worked out good. It was a four-year grind for that bull.

I remember you text me and you're like, we killed one. We killed a pretty good one. And, you know, you didn't want to say just because, you know, a guy doesn't want to come out with the initial score and then have it not official that and things like that. But, you know, you just, you know, he's well north of 400 and, you know, of course. Anyway, he sure was. What did he end up at? He grows 420 and netted 407 and two-eighths. Like straight six? Straight six point. Six point. Absolutely no extras, nothing at all. That's the dream bull right there. Yeah, absolutely. A monster. Monster. Probably one of my favorites of all time. Do you remember what his beams were? One beam was a hair over 60 and the other beam was like 55, I believe. I mean, you get 60-inch beams. I mean, that's the holy grail. I mean, that's the number. Right. Yeah. Hard to do in Nevada. Hard to do. Yeah.

I don't know how many are entered in the record book. I know there's not a handful of them. Not in Nevada. So, I mean, that bull ended up being the new number three typical ever killed in Nevada. So, 2018, two number one buckles right there. One guy. Yeah. Yeah. It was the 2016, I just can't believe. I mean, you guys obviously didn't hunt him hard with a client or whatever. In 2017, like you said, he kind of slipped under the radar. Just lucky that he just didn't get smoked by an archer or something. Yeah. And I mean, in 2017, we hunted him hard with Trevor's dad. Chuck had a tag. And then, like I said, Dallas had his tag. And then one of my other best friends had a tag as well. So, we wanted to kill him then, but just couldn't get the job done. And my other buddy, he really wanted to hunt Carl's Jr. We found another bull that we were familiar with, and we ended up killing it.

I think, like, the fourth or fifth day of the archery hunt. So, we have, you know, the gov tag bull killed now. The day after, Dallas killed his bull. And then my other buddy kills his bull. So, like, I think in that week, I think we killed three bulls over 400 gross.

And two archery hunters and the gov tag bull. So, it was pretty insane. One of the things I think is interesting with a lot of these really big bulls that you're talking about is that you're hunting them multiple years. Is that something that you're finding is super common with these bigger bulls that you actually end up killing? Are they bulls that you know about for years and years and years? Yeah.

I can't think of really a bull that has just shown. Well, I guess the gov tag bulls that year, 2017. We never seen it the previous year or anything. Chuck actually found it hunting deer. And, I mean, other than that, though, basically every bull that we see over 380, we kind of have tabs on, you know, and wait until they get bigger. I mean, most of the time you can't pass up a 380 bull, but most of the time, yeah, every bull that we kill, we have some sort of history with. It's pretty awesome. Nevada had incredible bulls early to mid-2000s and then went through a slump. They had a season adjustment and tag structure and issued a lot of tags. And I remember, you know, Chuck was just disgusted and, you know what I mean, and it kind of went through that slump. You know, and then like you said, now it feels like maybe these elk have adjusted a little bit

to being hunted differently and the pressure and whatnot. But now we're back in them. It is. It's crazy. I think a lot of the time, you know, back in the late 90s, early 2000s, you'd see people driving to town with the elk full in the truck, you know, not quartered or anything, just gutted and loaded whole. And nowadays you don't see that ever at all. So elk are like really starting to turn into elk around here, I think, and staying up high where you're not going to kill them every single day, you know. Yeah, they used to hunt them heavy just down on the sage, just down right out of town. I mean. Yeah. Yeah, and the cedars, you know, cedars and sage. So. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. They had to, it feels like they had to adapt. I mean, just from what I've seen. Yeah. I mean, Nevada actually does a decent job, I feel, managing, for bulls anyway.

The cows, I don't think they do worth the heck. You know, they kill way too many cows. Tell me a little bit about, you heard Allen's bull bugling, August 17th. I just want to talk a little bit about, it feels like to me, and every, you know, Nevada, they rut earlier than other states. And so, Wendy, but I don't know, what are you guys finding? I'm not saying he was rutting August 17th. I'm just saying, you know, a lot of times people feel like the archery season's a little bit early, being basically the first two weeks of September and August. But what's your thoughts? It's so hit and miss. I mean, like, just for instance, Allen's bull that year, you know, 2018, he is the first bull that I heard bugle that year. And obviously, you know, we killed him and he had a bunch of cows with him when we ended up killing him.

But as far as all the other bulls throughout the couple units that we hunt, I mean, bulls are still with bachelor herds in some other places, you know. So, and I get a lot of clients that call me and ask if we can hunt the last week or the first week, what's better, this and that. And there's really no answer. I mean, we kill bulls the first day of the archery hunt that are rutting their guts out. And then we kill bulls in the later part of the archery hunt that, you know, like the 15th, 16th, around that time frame that are still not bugling, like hardly at all. So, I don't know what triggers it to some, you know, certain bulls, but something does. And, I mean, there's other bulls that, like we've hunted over the years, that don't show up until the later part of the archery hunt, whereas different years they show up at the very start, you know.

So, what changes, I don't know if it's the moon or weather, what it is, but there's no talent really that I know anyway. There's a buddy, I can't remember his name, but a guy smokes a 400-inch bull with a bow that you guys guided last year, 2018 as well. You kind of brushed over that one. I mean, how do you just, I mean, it just felt like big bulls were dying for you guys left and right. Yeah, I mean, it helps that we had the time that we did to scout for the gov tag for the previous two years. You know, 17 and 18, we had the gov tags or one of the gov tags each year. So, we spent a lot more time looking for elk in places that, you know, knowing where the bulls go to rut. So, really trying to narrow it down to where these bulls are at during the summer.

The bull that you're talking about is actually Alan Shears, really good buddy from Washington. It was actually a bull that we were really looking for for the gov tag for Alan, just to see what he turned into from previous years. We'd seen him in 2016, and he was around a book bull, 385 gross, 375 net-ish. The next year, I actually had him with an archery hunter in 2017, and the guy shot the wrong bull coming in. I actually, Cal called him in, and he shot the wrong bull. And he was well overbooked that year, probably close to 390 gross. And I knew that it was one of the bulls that we had to find for the gov tag to definitely see if, you know, it was big enough. And we never did see him in the velvet, and he showed up. The first day that I actually went to go look for him, we found him rutting a bunch of cows. So, and that was early on, I think September 1st, I believe.

And we hunted him hard for a couple days. He just, he never went into a really good spot to stalk him. And we actually had one really good opportunity at 60 yards, and the wind switched. I mean, we were sitting on the bull for several hours, and the wind just switched and blew him out. And then he went up into some different country, and another bull came and stole all of his cows and pushed the bull that we were hunting off by himself. And Bruce and I took off after him, and there's two bulls bugling, and we knew that he was the bull further to the north. And we really narrowed it down to chase that bugle instead of any others, you know. So, when we got up there, and Bruce actually found the bull, like 150 yards raking a tree. And the cows and the other bull were long gone by then. So, I knew that was a really good opportunity with the sound and everything to get in close to that bull.

And we get close to the bull, and the other bull that actually took his cows came running back over towards him because he was bugling and chased him off. I mean, we were like 45 yards away getting ready to kill this thing, raking this tree, just trying to find a shooting lane. And this other bull finally comes back and scares him again. And I cow called the bull, and the big bull came right back right into our lap, and we get it done. So... Jeez. It's just one of them ones that everything went right finally, you know. Wow. So... So... And that bull was the number one non-typical buckle last year for Nevada as well. So... To me, there's nothing quite like being in there close to those elk when they're beagling with a bow, and you're just waiting for something to happen, and they're right on top of you. It's just, there's nothing like it. Absolutely. I agree.

I like hunting big pines and that, chasing beagles in that type of terrain, you know. So when you start hunting these bulls that you've known about for years and years, and you're on them constantly, I know there's got to be times when you have a specific bull that's just difficult, or a buck, any animal that just, you hunt and things just seem to go wrong, the wind switches and things like that. Do you have a specific animal, whether it's a buck or a bull, that you feel you remember that was just tougher than anything else you've hunted before?

Probably Alan Shearer's 2018 Governor's Tag Bull. I mean, that bull took us four years to finally get killed, you know, and we hunted him. Like I said, in 2015, three of our subjects had tags, and we hunted that bull really hard, me included. I hunted him a few days. I was hunting a couple other different bulls, and then would switch up and go try ambushing that bull with three hunters, you know, trying to just corner him, and we just never could get it done. In 2015, in 2016, like I said, we hunted him hard with a couple archery hunters and could never get it done. And then in 2017, just same, you know, same thing. Hunt him really hard, and it just don't seem to ever work out with him. And finally in 2018, I mean, we had a huge advantage with the rifle and knew that we were going to get it done, you know, so.

Well, that bull, and that was his biggest year, and it's crazy how many years these bulls will stay at 400. You know what I mean? Like a 15, 16, 17, 18. I mean, that's what's nice about elk, like, and like Dallas' bull, you know, 2014 through 2000, and then finally kills him in 17 or whatever. I mean, they live forever, man. These elk, some of these elk are so old, and they throw. It don't seem like they ever change. I mean. Yeah. I think we kill bulls that are, you know, upwards of 15 years old that are still knocking on 400, you know. Yeah, they throw 400 set after 400 set, and they don't get killed like deer. Deer are kind of weak, you know. They have predators and drought conditions, and they're up and down. I've had deer throw one good set of antler, meaning one giant set, and then just nice sets from before and after. Or these bulls will throw four or five years of 400-inch sets.

And they have to compete with the elk. So, I mean, they're definitely a lot weaker than them. So, yeah, it's crazy that some bucks will stay big for so long, and others just die off really quick. You know, have one good year, and that's it. I know you ventured to northern Nevada a little bit with your dad. You know, we had a PIW tag, tough year. But anyway, how was it hunting up there?

It was different. It was a lot different terrain. I mean, as far as there's not a lot of trees in line up there, I didn't know the country hardly at all. Luckily, a few of our other guides that I guide with have spent quite a bit of time up there hunting over the years. And quite a few people from where I'm from hunt up there quite a bit. So, we had a good starting point. And we obviously had, you know, a few other guys that go up there with us and look. And it's a lot different hunting migration. That's what's so cool about up there is migration. You never know what's going to show up. As well as some of the country down south, you know, like Alan's buck just last year. But it's a lot different hunting migration deer. Not knowing what's going to show up versus hunting something that's specific that you're trying to kill, you know. But I don't know.

I wouldn't spend a whole lot of time up there just because I'm so used to hunting. The way we hunt down here is you hunt certain animals year in, year out. Yeah. Yeah. Well, anything else on scouting? Any other scouting techniques and tips you've got?

Just time. Full time. Yeah. Just, yeah. I mean, I'm fortunate to spend as much time as I do every day, you know, out looking around. So, I get way more time than the average person to spend out scouting, looking at animals. You're not married. No. No kids. No girlfriend to go home to. Nothing. Dang. Dang. That hunting will do that to you. I'm all about hunting. You've been heading to Mexico in your off season a little bit. You like it down there? I mean, different for sure. I love it down there. I wish I could go down there a lot more than I do. Yeah. I get, I can't lie. I do get a little bit homesick. I like to be in Nevada for sure. But I do love spending time in Mexico. I've been fortunate to go on some incredible hunts down there. So, and actually get to go back to Tiburon again this next February. So, looking forward to that. That's one of my favorite hunts that I've ever been on.

Do you see any of those mule deer down there on Tiburon? I have not seen a big buck down there. I've seen quite a few deer though, yeah. I have not seen a giant yet though. So. I guess they got a different species. I don't know a lot about it. I haven't done a lot of research on it. But it's kind of a different, whole different animal. Yeah. It's called Sheldoni. Yeah. Yeah. They say there's a few giants. There is. Supposedly last year the other hunters on the island seen a monster while I was down there. But the season was over and just couldn't do anything about it. Wow. Crazy. Yep. Well, all right. Anything else you want to leave us with? It's been awesome. Yeah. Thank you guys. I appreciate having me. Yeah. Yeah. Good luck this year. You guys are, I mean, of course we're just getting cranking and I don't know.

It's about time to wear out a truck in the next two or three months, isn't it? Yeah, it is. I just bought a brand new one too to go ruin. You did not. Did you? Yeah. Not brand new, but a new one to me. What is it?

That's disclosed. Did you sell your used one? I ended up trading it in. Oh, that poor guy. Yeah. Whoever ends up with that thing. It should have went straight to the junkyard. Yeah. I don't know if I feel like lucky or getting a new one or getting rid of the old one. That's for sure. That's a problem. Was it having trouble on you? Yeah. I had multiple issues in it. How many miles does it have? Close to 200,000. Nice. Highway miles. But maybe 85%. Yeah. All highway miles. All highway. Yeah. Washed once a week at least. Right. What year was it? An 08 Tacoma. An 08? Yeah. They give you a good chunk of change for it? A lot better than I thought I would get on it for sure. That's the one thing about Toyotas. For the shape that it was in. Yeah. Heck yeah. And knowing the problems that it had. I mean, they didn't know the problems it had because I kind of limped it to where I needed to take it.

That's like Chris. Yeah. Limped it to the parking lot, not sure how you got it there safely and walked away. Exactly. They offer you a lot more than you think you're going to get and all right, I'll take it. Yeah. Exactly. There was no turning back there. Life of a hunter. I keep waiting for a phone call.

Well, it's all good. Clean title. Clean one owner. So, well, anyway, good luck this year. We'll see you out there in the hills. Yeah. Keep in touch and. Absolutely. You guys as well. Okay. Good luck out there. I know you guys will kill some giants. So, yeah, we're definitely going to give her heck and as you guys are. So, yeah, stay in touch. You guys are, you guys are killing it. So, pretty impressive. Thank you guys for having me again. So. Okay. You bet, Brock. We'll talk to you later. All right. Okay. All right. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.