EP 144: Applying in NM, UT, OR and a Mexico Coues Deer Hunt.

That's changed things for New Mexico. No less than 84% of the tags in a certain hunt code are going to residence. My face hits the gun case and breaks it. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, John Peterson, Chris Peterson. Of course, Chris is at the keyboard, going to do his thing. Make sure he deletes anything and everything that's unimportant or otherwise offensive. It's in your best interest. Sometimes we talk about Republicans and Democrats and, of course, more about negative on Democrats. But Chris doesn't let that go on air, and so we appreciate that. We appreciate Under Armour for sponsoring this podcast. They sponsor everything we do here at Epic Outdoors. And we sponsor ourselves, too. How about that, John? I like that. Epic sponsors Epic. How about that? Absolutely. All right. So, anyway, enough with that. What are we going to yak out today, guys? We're February. Do you realize that? We turned the calendar page. February 2020. Where is this going?

We're 31 days ago. February 4th. Geez. Not only are we in February, we're jumping into February in on the 4th here today, Tuesday. We'd like to give a shout-out to all you leap year birthday folks born on February 29th. You get a raw deal. Every four years, you get a birthday. But you don't age that fast that way, so it depends on how you look at it. You could be like me. I'm aging a year every six months. How about that? All right. So, we do have a February magazine that came out, reminded us that it is February. Sometimes we get a little break here, a little reprieve. Speaking of reprieve, Bronson, we did blow through an application deadline. Heck, yeah. Huh? Wyoming elk is over, and Arizona elk and antelope is on its heels here next Tuesday. So, get those in by Tuesday, 1159 Mountain Time, next Tuesday, February 11th. Kind of final in Arizona. There's no plug-and-play in there.

No points on the extension. No points only in the summer. So, yeah, get it in. Or you can miss your point and maybe your loyalty points. So, it can be critical. Yeah, that's right. So, we all are going to cover in this magazine the Nevada Guide Draw Alert. We're going to give that a little bit of attention. New Mexico and Utah, and then Jason's going to spend quite a bit of time digging into Oregon. I'll dig into Oregon for a minute. Skip that state. Go on to something special. Just teasing. Oregonites do not load my email. We hear from you. Most of the time, you're like, you're spot on, but we don't. It is impressive. Mainly, we're talking about it from a non-roset perspective in the 5% tags whittled in half, usually, in the best units, right? Well, because they give tags to, for deer and elk, they give tags to outfitters to sell to us. We appreciate that.

Thanks for selling us tags that we get. And, of course, we don't have any say in that. Game and fish agencies get to do that. By the way, I want to talk about one thing that's coming down the pipe nobody knows about, right?

Wyoming's revisiting the tag allocations. Yes. We're hearing. Gnashing of teeth is starting. Isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, we're talking 10%. We're hearing from outfitters right now. We're hearing from outfitters that are freaking out. Privy to this information. And they're freaking out. Yeah. Right? Yeah. This is an estate that has some pretty pro-outfitting laws on the books. Meaning, they make us hire somebody if we go into wilderness. Of course, the outfitters love that. Now that we're going to cut our tag allocations, that'll possibly cut into their potential client list because residents aren't going to hire people. It could affect things quite a bit. In a state that has, in the most recent years, with price increases, preference point fee increases, online convenience fee increases, it's making it harder and harder to keep supporting that state.

Well, you've got sheep, moose, bison tags doubling up to 4,500. And then you're going to start whittling down percentages pretty soon. Be careful what you're asking for because you might get an exodus. Kind of funny. Wyoming's one of those states that's the only state. You want to pay more for this tag, you can buy down your odds. You know, that's interesting. I mean, that's just saying flat, plain and simple, we love money. Well, it's like Americans apply here. And for all of you that like the European form of hunting, apply for the big money tag. And we're good with that. And we're fine. We're good with that. Pick it. Anyway. Hey, and I've applied for the special and paid for it. Youth, even my kid, got the special, paid for it, 1,200 and whatever, 80 some odd dollars. Just pointing out it's very unique. We get a lot of questions on it. What's the special?

Nothing other than you pay more for it. In theory, you should have more better drawing odds, but not always the case. And we didn't mean to talk about Wyoming, but with the non-resident tag allocations possibly changing in the legislature, who knows? We'll see how that happens. Could be a big deal. The guy that told me about it, I did tell him, hey, email me the details because I can tell the world to fight and gnash their teeth. And I haven't heard or seen anything on it, but that's what we hear is out there. So we'll see how that shakes out. You know the one thing, Bronson?

There was a guy out there a long time before us. Well, actually, he's not much before us, but did want to take on the non-resident allocation fight. And he did it, and I thought he was going to be a hero. And I thought he would have a ton of support because in our little world, we're non-residents and most everywhere we go. And we agreed that it was federal property, federal taxes, all of these things, we should be created a little more equal. And the hunting world left him high and dry and did not support that and did not support the tag allocations being equal to residents and non-residents. And so I don't know that there'll be a lot of support on this Wyoming thing either. Like people are not going to do much change or support that or support more non-resident rights, meaning higher non-resident tag allocations.

Despite the overwhelming per tag issued, the overwhelming evidence of licensed sales revenue that come from non-residents in every state compared to resident license sales. Despite that, you know, it's still a very unique individual state by state there. And it's natural. You want to fight for what's, quote, yours in your state. You want to fight for that. But anyway, just sometimes certain things, you might cause an exodus. You might cause, all right, no longer worth it. And it backfires. They don't have money. They don't have ways to run programs. What are they going to do? Then turn to the residents and jack their fees? Then you're going to get international empties. So just there's fine lines and lines that can get crossed either way. So it'll be interesting to see what happens in Wyoming. But moving on. New Mexico did jump into where it's mandatory purchase of a hunting license,

whereas before we could, you know, elect to get out of that if we didn't draw. And so, you know, they're now grabbing $65 from each of us as well. And the thought behind that at the time, if you remember, was they were scared that they were going to have too many people not apply in New Mexico. So let's say, well, we're going to charge you for it when you apply. But if you don't draw, we're going to allow you to check the box to opt out if you don't want it. Yeah. Right. And it was only to soften the blow to like, we still want your application fees and apply. If you forget and have a little oversight, well, I thank you for your business. Thanks for $65. Yeah. Now it's a mandatory. But now it's gone. And hey, we're all still applying. Yeah, we're still. Right? And they're loving it. That's right. All is well. They're happy.

They're so happy with the non-residents that they even curbed us a little bit more. Going in. And now it is a mandatory 84% of the tags go to residents, which was originally written. Now it's being interpreted. Minimum of. Literally. Yeah. Now they're going to make sure that no less than 84% of the tags in a certain hunt code are going to residents. And up to 10% go to the guide pool. And up to 6%. That's right. Go to non-residents. That might be zero. Have their freedom of choosing to go guide it or not. That might be zero percent. And in a lot of cases, it's zero. A lot of cases. But it'll never be below 84. It might be 88 or 90. Yeah. Because a rounding might be 90%. They can round up. 10% in the guided and zero in unguided now. That's going to be very common. You'll see that. If it was a 6.2% of the tags go to non-residents, that's not going to happen. They're not round.

It's not mandatory. It's up to. 6 and 10. Not to exceed. And so, anyway, that's changed things for New Mexico. Let's dive into that. Yeah. They've actually, yeah, they're interpreting that literally. The biggest change for this year probably in New Mexico. Well, and that's a lot in large part because every four years they do a big, giant review of the entire state. And that happened last year. There was a lot of changes. This year, kind of rubber stamped, so to speak, with the exception of the interpreting. Some season dates. Yeah. A few season dates. Exactly. They did just because of the calendar shift and the way the rule's written. On establishing seasons, you'll see that there's some later season dates, meaning not new later season dates. The same season as last year is a little later, a week later, five days later than it was last year. Well, I'm kicking it off real quick.

Just a quick overview. The application deadline since we are talking about New Mexico will be March 18th at 5 p.m. The draw results will be out by April 29th. It's definitely worth pointing out. We alluded to it a minute ago. It's a state where you do have to buy a hunting license to apply. It is a reduced price license for youth, $15 for, or $10, I should say, for residents, 15 for non-residents, 65 for adult non-residents. It's not terrible when compared to some of the other states that are $150 to $75.

But they do charge you your permit fees. So that is, in many cases, Jason, a fairly big deterrent. People, you know, sheep tags at $3,200. You're going to fund them. Elk tags. An Ibex at $1,600. An Ibex at $1,600. I mean, you can, if you get tarried away, you're going to be $8,000, $10,000 on your card. Per person. Pretty easy. Per person. Per person. And they do. They're very expeditious. I don't know if that's the right word, but I just said it, so I'm going to make it a word. They do turn around pretty quick and get it back on your card. Yeah, you might not go through a full billing cycle on your credit card if you're a lucky guy or gal. So, anyway, nice thing for residents. I mean, your license is $15. You know, your expensive elk licenses are $90. Antelope, $60. Sheep, $160. How about that? Oryx, you know, $160. Ibex, $110. Pretty affordable. You know, for us, $1,600.

$3,100, not a big deal, right? All right. What would you say? We talked about the change. I don't know if you do want to talk about anything more about the specifics about that interpretation. I think let's talk about tag numbers, basically, like if you see a unit with 15 or less tags, stay away from it unless you're going to do the guide draw. That's right. And we've put it in our publication, which those of you who are members, of course, you've got online eMag as well as a paper mag coming to your doorstep. You should have it any day if not already. We've just got mine. And so, anyway, we do signify in there, and Adam said, make it in bold. So I right-clicked and bolded that sucker. What did I do? Which is basically telling you, or warning you, that there will not be tags in that particular point here.

Make sure you're signed up with an outfitter in those low-tag number type hunts or don't apply. And if you're in some of those that have three to five tags, there's a couple weird hunts like that in the state. They're only going to be resident only this year. For sure. Yep. So, anyway, we put that across the board. Great hunting in New Mexico. I don't really want to go unit by unit. We've got three states we're going to grind through here. Plus, we're going to talk about a hunting experience that John is sitting here with Bronson staring at us with his one black eye. That's a teaser for later in the podcast, but we do not leave us at the end because you're going to want to hear the story, I promise. It has to do with cattle guards. Can you imagine what happened? And Mexico. Whoa. Brom, brom, brom. On a bike and headed for the cattle guard. All right. So, anyway.

Let's talk maybe just about a brief overview of the highlights of New Mexico. Jason, when you think New Mexico. I think a big bull. If somebody says, hey, what should I do in New Mexico? Yeah, you killed a big bull. I've killed some bulls. Chris, you've killed bulls. Elk is what I'm hearing. Bull elk. That's right. We're talking elk. That's right. Not talking about oryx at the moment, although that's very unique and great to eat. Of course, John, the French like horses, don't they? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Oryx is probably the closest to him. John's married to a French gal. I like to tease him a little bit. Do you guys eat horses? We haven't yet. It's kind of hard to get here. You need to try the Western Mustang. The reason it's hard to get, John, is you'll be in federal prison if you do that. Just feeding your family. You want to go to the auction and adopt a horse? Smoke it the next day?

And then take it down to the... Put it on the trailer. Drive it in your horse hole and say, just take care of this. Put it on the trailer. I wonder what they'd charge you to cut and wrap a wild Mustang. So anyway, they do have desert sheep. Rocky Mountain bighorns. Phenomenal, incredible sheep. But they have very few non-resident tags. That's right. We break it down. It's awesome. They have amazing elk. In fact, the moisture content... Precipitation. The level of precipitation has been amazing this winter and spring, early spring. Or you can say... And so if it continues, it'll be awesome. Water. You could say water. The level of what? Lakes? Streams? The amount of water received in the ground up until now. I don't know. I'm trying to find synonyms for moisture. 200-pound dude sinks a half inch telling me it's a good year. It should be awesome. There's... They've got some...

The best seasons in New Mexico, besides the mobility impaired and the youth, incredible seasons, muzzleloader and rifle. But the archery hunts are by far the best. And everybody... I know I used to tout these early seasons. They are a little early. I got my butt kicked this last year on early season, didn't we, Chris? Mm-hmm. It sucked. We did see it. We did go the first week of the early season instead of... We did. Closer to the end of the first week. 90 degrees. It was rough. 90 degrees. Chris sweated his... Off. I did. And this is... I had personal zippers put in for heat vents. Chris didn't. Nope. Aftermarket tailoring. Oh, yeah. Big gold zippers. It was even... Yeah. It was even warm later. I was there in October. We both hunted it this year. And it was... Like, there's something for everybody. No point system in New Mexico. We spent seven days, didn't see Jack.

Bronson spends a day and a half, smokes a 380. How about that? Hell, I did have a 300 Ultra. Okay. And it was one of those early seasons, which are awesome. You know, that's the one thing about New Mexico. Weird stuff produces big animals. Weird stuff for antelope. Weird stuff for elk. Weird stuff for deer. And we apply differently. Since you're not risking points, trying to get something out of your points in New Mexico, you know, I apply differently every year, usually with a time slot that fits me best. Last year, my early October, like the first 10 days of October was my window. And so, all three of my choices for elk, they look at all three choices in New Mexico. It was just best for me. My September looked jammed, and I didn't want to jam. It was a great elk year. I didn't want to sit it out. You know, they do have coos deer down there.

You get to do one deer application, and you have three choices on there, all of which are valid. So, same thing. Mule deer, cut first choice or two. Coos deer, last choice, or vice versa. Your coos deer lover, do all three coos deer choices. And you've got exotics. If you don't want to travel to Africa or Turkey or all these exotic countries, they bring animals to New Mexico. You've got to free them. The oryx, like Jason talked about. Go down the exotic road. All right. Speaking of which, speaking of which, Wyatt, Wyatt, here in our office, is in Texas smoking barbarians. He smoked a giant today. He did. With an endorsed outfitter. It would make me, I've shot one in New Mexico. It's like a 29 or 30 inch, just a solid ram. It's nothing like this thing. 35 and a half inch by 13. This is a giant. Come on. It's about, I want another one, I see, like that. But anyway, then they've got Ibex.

You can't leave work. I guess he can. I don't know, Bronson. You let him go.

What do you see about that, Wyatt?

Now we're getting his emails and doing his work, our work, and any other work. And we're envious of the whole time because he's WhatsAppping us, kill shop video. We started the business so we get paid to hunt and fish, and Wyatt's out hunting and fishing. Right? The fun part about this is he doesn't even have to be here when we're crushing him still. All right. Usually he's sitting here with us, and he just sits there and takes it on the chin. Now he's indefensible. Nice thing, Bronson, is you can go back to applying for elk. There's no waiting periods. It's awesome. Every year's a new year. New Mexico's one of those plug-and-play states. And you can waste money. That's what you're talking about. It's okay to waste money because you don't have points built up. And you can pull out of it. Well, and what you mean by waste money is, yeah, just go out on a limb. Get a tag. Go try something.

Make the most of it if you can. When it comes to deer, there's a couple of solid deer units that are as consistent as New Mexico get. Then there's 98% of the rest of the state. Who knows? Who knows? Just go try something. Dude, I just forwarded a picture of a 230 buck and killed on the highway in some obscure, weird unit. Yeah. I mean, it's... Who knows? New Mexico's weird. Yeah. But it's a great state to do. Two deer, giant antelope, you know. Anyway, it's all in the magazine. Read. Apply. March 18. That's right. March 18. Do your harvest reporting. That's right. That's kind of a mandatory thing. Yeah. If you hunted there last year, make sure you did it. All right, John. Let's just do something different.

Okay. Okay. Well, we can do the guide draw alert. Everybody, apply for the guide draw. All right. Now let's talk about something important. Nevada. We should talk about the guide draw in New Mexico first, too, as a segue into Nevada. How's that, Jason? Run. Well, in New Mexico, for all species, as we mentioned earlier in the quotas, they do have a guide draw, outfitter pool, for all species. Yeah. For both residents and non-residents. Come on. Yeah. Give us a bone. I don't know how many residents are actually putting in that, because you'd have to analyze the odds and see if it's ever better for a resident to put in with a guide. It's the principle of it. Okay. They get the 84% already. It's the principle of it. So a lot of times we term it as the non-resident guide draw. It's not technically true. But anyway, if you are going to go with an outfitter in New Mexico on any of your hunts,

and you know you are, you should give us a call. Get set up with an outfitter. It might be a couple of outfitters, because you might pick one for sheep and one for a different part of the state, because there's rarely one outfitter that does everything perfectly in every unit in the state. So be aware of that. Give us a call. You might have certain things with elk. You just want to shoot average five and six point bulls. You don't want to compete with the bad odds in the heli units. You want to go in northern New Mexico somewhere. But then you want to apply for in the southern end for the Oryx and Ibex. Give us a call. You may choose a couple of outfitters is what you're getting at. Or you could do one outfitter, and that contract is transferable to another outfitter. Once your outfitter is willing to do that, you're good to go. And we're working with guys that are willing to do that.

Basically, at the end of the day, if you don't want to be with them, they don't want to take you. I get it. It's all good. We're working with good guys. Call us. We can sure help you out. Great way to draw tags. In fact, in some cases, it's the only way for a non-resident to draw a tag. Some of these low quota users. All right. So that comes into the Nevada Guide Draw. Another extortion of non-resident tags forcing us, taking a portion of our tags and reallocating them through the guides. And we can have access to those if we apply in the Nevada Guide Draw.

So at the end of the day, if you're going to go guide it anyway and you're going to use a rifle, jump in the Nevada Guide Draw. For the most part, the odds are two, three, four times better. There's a couple of cases that has a good as the main draw. But for the most part, it's better. That has a deadline of March 9, 2020. And anyway, so early. But the results will also come out early. You'll be able to know if you drew early for other state application deadlines that are coming up. And if you do that, you cannot apply in the main draw for deer. And, of course, you're selecting rifle only, as we talked about. And then you can use your points, of course. They'll naturally be used. It's not like an option. They'll naturally be used. Any previously points that gained will be used in the Guide Draw. That's right.

You don't have to have accumulated all your deer points in the Guide Draw in the past to use them in the Guide Draw. Their deer points are deer points. One of the biggest things, and you touched on it for me, if you're going to go guide it, it's definitely the way you should go. But you find out by the end of March. You find out two months before the regular Nevada Draw. What is that going to do? You're booked with your outfitter two months before. You pick the dates and all that versus entering the regular draw and you find out at the end of May. And with people that have bought Landowner Tags or they drew in the Guide Draw, you're behind a lot of that. It's kind of nice. You get to cherry pick the dates with the outfitter because he's basically got a free schedule. That's right. The regular application period will end May 4th. So it's kind of new.

Normally it's been the second Tuesday in May, so they did adjust that. Pretty awesome. Great opportunity. You know there's some interesting things with Nevada coming down the pipe. You've been able to point boost in the past. That's basically going to come to an end. You can point boost one time. You're both going to use your tags, though. Your grandma, mom, or girlfriend or whatever is going to have to go back to one if they turn their tag back in. So they can turn their tag back in, but they're going back to one. Basically it's a one-time boost option. So guys that have been kind of using the same point booster year after year after year and drawing amazing tags, they'll be able to do it one more time, and then that point booster is going to go to zero or else use his or her tag. So anyway, definitely be cognizant of that. Some more changes coming up.

There's quite a few changes actually coming down the pipe in Nevada. They've even talked about possibility of less than five choices being on the application being valid, which would help drawing odds. I'm not very good at math. We'd have to run some numbers again, but I do believe that would help out. So there's so few tags offered, and everybody gets five choices. It's almost like there's legit five times the applicants as normal because not many people are drawing their first through fourth, so all five choices are valid. And actually, you're actually in the draw for those, so it just dilutes the draw that much further. Let's talk about draw tags. Western Hunting Conservation and Expo. Well, John, bring it out. Well, we're all getting ready, and we're about a week away from the Western Hunting and Conservation Expo in Salt Lake City, Utah.

So if you've never been, it's one of the better shows, I think, in the West. We've got a big booth there, and it's a time for us to meet our members and talk hunting for almost a week. So the date's on that. Book your tickets and come out and join us. It's February 13th through the 16th, 2020 in Salt Lake City, Utah. That's next week, dude. That's next week. Yep. Booth number 2744. We'll be there. And we'll be at the Rhodizio Grill. By the way, Bronson. Oh, we had a good comment about that. Okay. We were talking about the wolf podcast. Let's bring up that at the end after John's black eye because those are two. The Rhodizio Grill of the West, we're going to talk about what state that is. You guys be thinking in your minds what state that could be. And it relates to the most recent podcast. That's right. Okay. All right. Let's also talk about our seminar at the Hunt Expo. We do.

We are putting on a seminar. Who knows what we're going to talk about. Although we want to invite people to send us questions and do so on Chris's email, of course. Bombard it. Chris at EpicOutdoors.com. Hit him up. C-H-R-I-S at EpicOutdoors.com. And that is going to be Friday at 530. We'll answer a few questions. Of course, we reserve the right not to answer a couple questions. There's some people that are going to get pretty personal on this. Try to figure out exactly where we're going to be this fall, next fall, or last fall. And that ain't going to work. Right? I mean, we're entitled to a couple things. Right? It's Valentine's evening. Right before you're going to take your significant other to dinner. Bring her to the 14th. Bring her. Bring her. There's a precursor. I'm sure she'll love it. And if you're not married, let us know. We'll grind her out and just make sure that she's...

We will vet somebody during the podcast. We'll make sure that she's fit to be a hunter's wife. How about that? We're going to let her know what she's getting in for. And we'll publish her responses so that it is in writing, set in stone, that she is accepting of the hunting lifestyle. Yeah. We will record the podcast. And you'll have proof of what was said and done and committed to. That's right. That's right. Till death do you part. Anyhow, so that is... But we're serious about taking some legitimate questions from y'all. If you want to have a few questions answered, obviously we could go a million directions. We don't want it to sit there and go through, you know, line by line how a state system works and go through all 15 Western states. Not going to happen. We're not going to do that.

We're going to talk more about concepts of our own application strategy and also how that has changed. It's changed in the last 10 or 15 years for us. As draw tags, they're tough to get. And as we get some age on us, you know, we all change. Well, we all change. You've got to make more with less sometimes. So we're going to go that route a little bit. But welcome to take some questions. And then the next day... Sounds like a self-reliance fireside. Make more with less. Right?

Start a fire with two bricks. I mean, I don't know. Where do you go? I don't know. Survival? Well, then the survival. That jumps right into pyro putty, sounds like. Pyro putty. You know, if you're down and out and you're cold, let Chestyn save your butt and use his pyro putty and light up some wet moss. Huh? I did use it on this Mexico mule deer hunt. You used it? You went to Mexico, John. Yeah. Yeah. It was cold. Come on, John. It was under 30 degrees. Come on. Down there. Well, I don't... Under 30? Yeah. Come on. It was. In the morning. It was cold. You were in Mexico. You probably had a broken thermometer. So, anyway. Go to phonescope.com. www.phonescope.com. He does pyro putty. Of course, he does the phone scope. We've been videoing our hunts. The hunts you see videoed at the expo at our booth, large in part, was done from a phone scope.

On the Saturday, another great event that we have been a sponsor of, look forward to, is the Full Curl Society Social. This is February 15th. I believe it starts about 10 a.m. at the Western Hunting Conservation Expo. A minimum of 11 fully guided North American sheep hunts will be given away that day. All species of North American wild sheep are available. Sign up for the Full Curl event and buy your sheep tickets at www.fullcurl.org. Pretty awesome to watch people yell and scream and run up there and realizing they've won a $20,000, $30,000, $40,000, $50,000 sheep hunt. And we'll be there. Like I said, we encourage you to buy your tickets online or at the Full Curl Society booth prior to Saturday. If you wait until Saturday, they do sell them that morning. But the line is epic. It's huge. It is giant. Play on words.

And we're all going to be staring there looking at you holding up the drawing of the tickets because you're there just to walk up to buy your tickets that day. No, just kidding. But really, kind of really we are. Because we want to see the winners get drawn. But if we've got a giant line of people showing up that day, we'd just as soon, and I know they would just as soon, buy your tickets, pick them up at the booth, put them in the bins, and then just come there Saturday morning and watch who wins. Although you can buy them Saturday morning. Again, this is February 15th, the Saturday at the Western Hunting Conservation Expo. This is around the corner right now. John, I don't even know if our booth is ready. Is it? It's going to be ready. Yeah, good. Okay, so we're going to be standing there. Of course, we're going to have a giant 250-inch deer. We're going to have my Nevada deer.

Another 200. Measley, 36-inch, 220 buck. It's not going to hold a candle. No, it is, too. It's a big area, heavy second. Another net, 243 net buck killed this year. How about that? Net. All on a pedestal. It's a beautiful deer, incredible poncegah monster. Yeah, come by and see him. How about Clint's bull on a cover? The January cover. The January cover. Six-point, fresh blood on the skull cap. I mean. Bleeding all over the booth. That's right. We like him that way. None of this rafter stuff. Are we going to talk about John's bleeding in Mexico? We're going to talk about Utah. Okay. Segwaying into Utah. Utah just kicked off this last week, Thursday, Friday. Probably all know Utah's open. I went and applied already. Did you? No. Whoa. Whoa. Well, you can plug and play right here, can't you? Well, 10 bucks a pop. Boom, boom. Yeah. So I can make some amendments if I have to.

10 bucks is worth it. And guess what? Utah loves it when I give them more money. Okay. Well, you can do that. I just did it in case I would forget. The regular deadline, for those of you that haven't already played, is March 5th at 11 p.m. Mountain Standard Time. If you miss that deadline and are just doing points only, you can apply until March 19th. Results won't be out until the end of May. No fee difference in points only versus applying for a unit. So we tell people apply for a unit. That's right. So get in for it. Sorry, I blew out your momentum here. Keep going. No, you keep... You're crushing it. $65 non-resident hunting license. That's right. And you get a twofer. I mean, it's well known. Utah does not want your money that bad to charge you $65 every year. Every other state does it. You should do it January 1 to December 31. Something. I don't know. And you would get no twofer.

Everybody's prepared to pay for it. They're not wanting to take it. So whatever. You can play the system. Apply one year. Later in the application season. The next year, apply before that expires. And it only has to be valid the day you apply for your tags. That's it. And anyway. But however, drawing odds in Utah is tough. For residents. We're residents of the state. Let's take a straw poll of the four of us right here. This is statistically valid, I think. Four people randomly selected within Utah. Okay. How many limited entry or once-in-life 10 tags have you drawn, Chris, in your life? Zero. John, how many have you drawn? Zero. Wow. And you guys have been residents your whole life? I do want to quantify. Whoa. Quantify? Qualify. What? They want a draw that we could get them drawn. Oh, I know. I know. This is true. But, I mean, let's do the Dolores Triangle muzzle. No. No. Okay.

However, and Jason, let's talk about you and I. You got really lucky when you were a whippersnapper. Okay. 15 years old. Kill the buffalo. Bison tag on the henters. Bison and henters. Okay. When we got there, guys were eating their tags. The guys prior said, we haven't seen a buffalo in 14. And I'm like, ah. The first thing with. First brown. Down. Well, yeah. First thing with. A hump on its back. Or not. Is down. Maybe. Yeah, I don't remember. But it had. It did. It was a bull. It did, but. It was a boy. Yeah. And I dumped it. And I drew about the same time. I drew back. When we first started applying in Utah, we could put in for everything. Yeah. And I drew an antelope. Come on. 14, 15. I never knew this. One of my first. This is a skeleton. You've been in a closet that's now. Skeleton. Well, you've been embarrassed or we'd have known. You were an embarrassed antelope hunter.

An antelope connoisseur. Bronson, you've had antelope tags in Wyoming, Utah, Arizona. Where else? That's it, Jason. That's a list of 30 years. And I've hunted three states. All epic antelope calls. Funnel to Bronson's office. Mindy, do it now. You're awesome, man. No. No. Anyway. Just was saying, I was making my list. I was going to rattle off three or four tags that I'd drawn. Go ahead. Okay, antelope. Okay. I've drawn four. Antelope, deer, elk, and a desert sheep now. Okay. However. It's pretty impressive. However, two of those, they had to give me the tag. Yeah. I was the last man standing. You've been playing for so long. Just like your desert sheep. Yeah. You got through the Max Point Pool. Nobody else wanted to go to the Escalante Desert and get the buck. Yeah. Your elk, you got in the Max Point Pool when you drew it. Archery. And you drew a deer prematurely, randomly.

I did on the Alton, what they call the CWMU, posted hunting unit back then. So you've drawn about four, five tags. I've drawn four. We're lifetime residents of this state. Yeah. Okay. So what we're saying, it's tough for residents. It's really tough for non-residents too. However, it doesn't break the bank necessarily to apply in Utah. But you may just apply and forget about it. Yeah. You know, meaning don't. I actually, all right. So for deer, you can get a limited entry deer point. You can also apply for general deer. The general is a different story. And Adam, we're telling guys, get a point for general. It allows you to go hunting. It does. And nowadays, for a non-resident in the best units, it's like five points. Yeah, that's right. Five to six. That's right. And despite the gnashing of teeth of many people throughout Utah this last year, and it was a tougher year.

Two years ago, they were singing the praises of every biologist and state agency. Hard to hear our bat. It's unbelievable. The good old days are now. How many times do we hear that? Two years later, somehow. This last year, we've got all kinds of little mule deer groups popping up, having secret midnight meetings. Lynch mobs. Pissed. Lynch mobs. You know, oust them. The governor needs to get involved. It's burnt fire. Fire every DWR employee. Yes. And we know there's places that can be fixed. And some of them need to be fired. Yes. I'd love to fire a couple myself. Having said that, this isn't necessarily their fault. And keep in mind, these were over-the-counter tags not too long ago. 25 years ago, they were over-the-counter. They went to a draw. And then we went 15 or 20 years on region-wide tags. And we've only been six or eight or ten, whatever. On unit by unit. On unit by unit.

And it's because we're trying to take generals and make them limited-entry Henry's hunts. And I get it. I would actually like that. Okay? I would like it. But most people want, a lot of people, general public, want a place to be able to draw easier. By far the majority. Yeah. By far the majority want to hunt more often than hunting once every 10 or 20 years. So, I'm going to throw something out there. This ought to be good. I contend Utah's general deer is as good or better at producing quality bucks as Colorado. Say I'm wrong. If you look at the last couple years, Colorado has been rough. Really rough. Really rough. I'm going to be the devil's advocate here and say that Utah is not going to stay that way very long. Okay. With some of the changes that they are making right now. What do you think? What part? Alluding to. What part? Well, the 400 extra tags in certain units. Extra seasons.

And then now. There are some interesting seasons. Huge, huge, huge additions to private land hunting during the rut for an entire month. For the archery guys. These extended archery. And there's going to be the extended archery in some of these localized wintering spots where deer should be able to frolic and enjoy a little bit of snowfall. Breed. Breed. Breed without harm. Breed without being threaded. Are now going to be hunted. Hard. From the Wasatch archery. Anybody that has an archery tag. If they want to be. And people are going to be standing on the boundaries of all the private landowners. I feel bad for them. How this got through without a little bit of contentious debate is beyond me. Because we were watching the video and it just kind of got rubber stamped. So. But hey. Whatever. Let's hunt everything anywhere and everywhere. And I think you're right, Chris. To a degree.

In the new hams hunts. They. They're finding little nuances. And little. Little ways to inject a few more hunters. The early rifle season that's new last year. Yeah. The early rifle's kind of a first half of October, so to speak. And then you got late hunts as well. And then you got the muzzleloaders. And now with the new less restricted muzzleloaders. Meaning any scopes. Any scopes. Any new muzzleloaders that come out. You can do whatever. You can still bait in Utah. There's a lot of freedoms. A lot of ways to pressure deer in Utah. A lot of freedoms. A lot of ways to hunt and pursue and kill deer in Utah. But I had a guy. I had a guy from Colorado say, y'all complain about Colorado. But look at Utah. You know, y'all. You're producing some pretty nice bucks even on general in Utah. And you know what he's right. Bronson, there was a net 233.

I don't know how many we've had in our office in the last month. That are like unbelievable being scored by Wyatt. And yeah. If you add them up. You can't add up. There's gov tags eating tags. Multiple years in a row. You know, in Colorado. Yeah. It's happening. Or underachieving, so to speak. Or not killing what a. The historical standard of that tag is capable of producing. Right. Yeah. And it's been tough. So put that into perspective. Colorado has moderated. We get a lot of calls on Colorado. And that'll be next month when we break that down as we see the regulations in our hands. But having said that, I guess what got us on this topic is the only thing that you can regularly hunt in Utah regularly. Every one to two or three years as a resident. Or every two to three to five, whatever. Which supplements your four to five special tags you've talked about over your lifetime.

That's right. Well, yeah. We get generals every year. Only because we got lifetime licenses before they did away with them. Jason and I. But also if we get enrolled, John, you, Chris, you're in a dedicated hunter program. You don't get that every time you're off your three years. But usually, you know, you can have that, you know, after maybe sitting out one year, maybe two max. You can get on that. And then enjoy three years of consistent hunting a unit and try to do well. Kill two bucks every three years. That's right. So, yeah, there's some opportunity here. The nice thing about Colorado, and I will contend, here in Utah you're going to have to scout to do that, to have a good hunt. It is, you are hunting with the masses. You are in Colorado, too.

But the nice thing is the dates in Colorado allow for guys to not be quite as serious on the scouting and still do fairly well and knock down a nice deer. Show up and hunt. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, rut seasons, come on. So, all right. Have we grounded out enough? We grinded through Utah. There's just a lot of opportunities. It's hard to talk about everything that's in here. We covered it in probably about, what, Bronson, 35 pages. I don't know. There was a lot. And, you know, we also have a Utah Big Games record book. Go to utahbiggamercords.com. Our buddy Rusty Hall out there has an incredible book. I must say absolutely would spend the money on this. utahbiggamercords.com. It's 50 bucks. Absolutely awesome. Awesome stories. I got a couple bucks in there. Thanks, Rusty. Of course, appreciate him, his support of Epic, and vice versa. So happy to support him.

But there is a lot of opportunity in Utah. Non-residents get to apply for everything. Residents are actually kind of opposite of New Mexico. Residents are restricted in the fact that we have to choose one of the once-in-lifetimes and then one deer, elk, or antelope to apply for. We break it all down, deer, elk, antelope, both species of sheep, moose, goat, bison, all that. 38 pages, it looks like, all of Utah tables. Specific unit breakdowns, season dates, tag numbers, bonus point odds, random odds, both for resident and non-resident. Harvest success, average age of bucks, bulls, all that's there. That's what you get for a membership. And that's, we're just talking about Utah here. Mexico is 33 pages. That's right. Very aggressive every single month. And Oregon, Bronson teased me a little bit about talking about Oregon. We do love our Oregon brothers up there.

They kill some monster deer, especially with some Governor Tech special season dates. They prove that they're out there. There's a lot of private ground in Oregon that harbors a few giants in over-the-counter type units. There's a lot of over-the-counter archery hunts up there. Absolutely great potential, but we don't know what to do with a bunch of points that we have because there's not hunts out there that will yield a decent chance at killing a big deer without some private land or some insider information. That's right. We did break down the deer, elk, antelope, sheep, and goat stuff. You know, all broken down for Oregon. Again, it's tough for a non-resident to justify starting and applying in Oregon. There's no question about it. Non-resident hunting license is $172 for non-residents. That's just before you start applying. Then it's $8 per application after that.

If you've got a general season type hunt in mind and you're going to be buying it anyway, great. If you're going to apply for sheep and goat and you want to add a deer and elk point, it probably makes sense. Otherwise, it's one of those that's not a must-apply for state. That's just simply put. All right. Let's get to some stories. So I don't know. We've got a couple. We've got John's, and let's start with that, and then we've got the Rodigio Grill. That concept is pretty awesome. Okay, John, go for it. Let's talk about coos deer hunting first of all. In general. All right. This was my first coos deer hunt. It's like hunting a raccoon with antlers. Okay. Those little suckers are so small. How much bigger was that coos deer than the javelina you shot? Did you get some more meat off the javelina? Yeah. I mean, they're good eating. Did you eat them of yours down there? They're incredible.

No. The coos deer or the javelina? No, not javelina. The javelina smell like nothing else I've ever smelled before. That's why I don't want to shoot one because I don't want to have to take care of one. Well, I'd rather eat a coyote than a javelina. That's right. But the coos deer are incredible. They're them on a pellet grill, smoked. I might have that tonight. Come on. That are incredible. John. So, Mexico. So, you had a good friend that's been down there several times, got an invite. Had a good friend. It was a little bit on the gag order ranking of things. John and I, Jason and I, the rest of it, I don't even know if John's wife really knew where he was going. John, I'm going to be honest. Let's pay the pay. John acts like he doesn't know where the heck he was going. Doesn't act like he knows when he was going. Doesn't act like he even knows what species he had a tag for.

This is him going down. And then he comes back and the first thing we see when he comes in, John walks in with a black eye. And we're like, we didn't know about this. We're like, John, what the age? What happened? Are you still married? What happened down there? You know, talk about your hunt first, but then we'll get into that. What about the border crossing? So the border crossing, anybody who's going down there and is going to cross, things have changed this year. From what I hear, spend some time. It took us a day to cross the border pretty much. And you're basically sitting. In line. Waiting. Yeah. We weren't even in line. We were just kind of set off to the side. And you're waiting for the Mexican army to come and work for about 15 minutes. And it takes six hours for them to get there. I always tell people, if you can fly, fly. Yeah. Jeez. It's not worth it.

Yeah, but the problem is when you're going to that far northern Chihuahua or Sonora, there's no place to fly. There's no. Yeah. You're not going to fly fly to Hermosillo and drive all the way back to the Arizona border. Right. And if you're taking quads and you're taking all that, which we did because my buddy's been going to the same place for 10 years or whatever it is. And they've got it figured out. They take all their own stuff. And it's freaking awesome. And you just got to drive across. You got to have your own vehicles. You got to have your own stuff. You know, someone wrecks your formula. That's awesome. You know. Yeah. It's pretty awesome. So who was your chauffeur? So before I go, I didn't want to talk about it a lot because you guys will like get my wife riled up. Oh, I know. But it's so dangerous. And then the next thing I know, I'm not going. It's really not dangerous.

Adam and I are like, okay, we do have a backup graphic design. Okay. What are your passwords to your computer? I don't want to learn how to use a Mac, but I might have to. Okay. Chris, you're on house arrest because nothing can happen to you. It's kind of like when the president and the vice president can never be in the same place at once. One's in a bunker somewhere while one of them's out in plain view of everybody with cross-airs on them. They never are supposed to cross, merge, and be sitting next to each other unless they're in bulletproof vehicles. Armored vehicles. Yeah, that's right. This is kind of like us with our graphic designers. We can't lose two at once. No. That's just not a good idea. So Chris normally accompanied me down there in Mexico and was my interpreter. We wouldn't let Chris go with John. So John, you're on your own. You know French, but you do not know Spanish.

Good luck to you. The funny thing, John, we came home the first day. We came back, and we had Mexican here in town, me, you, and John. And John ordered in Spanish. I know. He ordered. And she's like, I am so proud of you. And we jumped on that in Spanish, and Jason and I were just like, whoa, John, he's freaking, he's fluent. He's fluent in burrito taco enchilada. She's like, I am so proud of you. But what happened to your eye? What happened to your eye? I think you were drinking a little too much. Tequila. And we're like, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, this is interesting. What did happen, John? Okay, so you had a, so you had an. So the other thing, so safety wise, our, the ranch owner had it all set up. Yeah. Did have a great guy, just so cool, but spent 10 years in prison. In U.S. You know, in the U.S. And he was. But he knew the ins and outs. He was funny as heck.

Yeah, and everybody knows him. So he was there every time we crossed the border, every time we drove around. Did he have any interesting border cross stories? So, Jen, get a listen to my spray bottle. John, I'm safe to say this is your last trip to Mexico. She's not going to listen. None of you say anything. We won't. I mean, she doesn't listen to the podcast. No. So, so anyway, I really didn't feel, I felt, you know, safe the whole time. It is odd, though, you know, you're driving, you go through the checkpoint, and then you drive for two hours, and. You get pulled over again. The federales are there at a, you know, at a. Random spot. No. You have to get out all your guns again, and. Did you ever have to pay them, like, give them a little money? No, but apparently they used to. Yeah. You know, a little whiskey would go a long ways, and this year they, you know, none of

that's going on anymore, and so border crossing's gone from an hour to six. Hours. Yeah. And so, anyway, but that's weird. And then you got one kid that they're all got their faces covered and stuff, and one kid's got his cell phone, like, taking pictures of all the guns. What? I don't know. That's. Army? Yeah, one of the Army guys. Federalist kid? You know, just. Oh, my God. Anyway, interesting. I don't know. That's going on Facebook, you know. I don't know why. So you're going. So. So let's jump into the hunt. You go up there. So we get down there, and from what they all said, it was a really slow year. We've heard that in a lot. It was phenomenal. Whoa. Really? For you? We were seeing deer. I'm used to the morning being hot, and you're hunting out in the desert of Nevada or Utah. Nothing for eight hours. And some days I don't see a deer. Yeah.

And all day long, you know, we're glassing up deer. So. Wild kingdom. It was phenomenal, except I can't wait to glass up mule deer now. How many lions did you see? Geez. Our group glassed up three lions. Come on. No. Different times. Different times, yeah. Different. Not like a female with kittens. We're talking three different kittens. No. Yeah. Three lions. The ranch owners got dogs there, and so one of the days we tried to get on one of the lions, and they just didn't, they couldn't pick up the scent, but, you know, we're radian down to the ranch. Hey, get the dogs up here and stuff. Yeah. But, so I thought I was on a lion hunt, too, and, but it didn't happen. And the year before, they killed a BNC bear. Come on. No. And it's on the wall. The thing is giant. Just giant. Prickly pear eater drift down from Arizona. Yeah. No, there's, apparently there are a lot of bears down there.

Just tons of bears. Awesome. Anyway. Freaking cool. So, anyway, I killed a buck. Great buck. So, 104. Extra eye guard, too, and a kicker. Kicker. Some devil points. I know somebody like that. Yeah, kicker got a kill. Anything with a kicker. Some blading. So, I mean, just phenomenal time. How about any, any. And then, did they have some cattle guards down there? How do they keep cattle where they're supposed to be? All right. So, the interesting thing, everything in Mexico is, like, barely get by. Yeah. You know, and it was funny. We could learn, as Americans, we could learn from it. I don't know. Thriftiness goes to another level. There's, like, no oversight. No. No. No regulations. And I was just, right before this cattle guard incident, I was talking to one of the guys. And in the ranch house, there's some, you know, electrical work. Just hanging. Wires. Exposed wires.

And stuff like that. Yeah. You know. And I said, everybody, I think they just get along. There's no regulations. And they're all fine. There's no building inspector. Yeah, no building inspectors. Yes. They live a happy life without any oversight. That's right. And then. And then. And then. All right. So. Then it's dark. We went javelina hunting. And then. I'm on the bike in fourth gear. I'm on the bike. I'm on a four-wheeler. And it was getting dusk. And we're cruising back. Towards the ranch. Towards the ranch. Yeah. Well. Are you on the bike by yourself? Yeah. I'm on the bike by myself. Gun strapped on the front. Gun strapped on the front. But in a hard case, right? Yeah. Well. There. Every cattle guard. They've used the least amount of steel possible. For sure. What they've done is taken one cattle guard. And cut it into pieces. And used it in three different places on the ranch. 100%.

Like. Or even pieces of an old horse trailer. Whatever. It's. It's wide enough that. A truck. Your tires can go. It's right where the tires go over. If you've got a trailer, you've really got to watch out. Because it's going to hit the side. So. It's going to go off. Four-wheeler. What happens, John? So. So I'm cruising. It's getting dark. I mean, you're hauling. Right? No. I wasn't going that fast. Great bright headlight. Brand new headlight, I imagine. Huh? Hitting on all legs. Come on. Anyway. No, you've got a. Let me paint this pitch. You've got a mag light duct tape to the front of the handlebars. With diesel batteries that have been. Should have been replaced a year ago. He's probably got a kerosene ladder. He's over there pumping. Pumping. Pumping. Pumping. Keeping the gas going. Pumping. Pumping. Pumping. Pumping. Pumping. Pumping. So this is so stupid. I'm such an idiot.

I don't even know why we're talking about it. Because. Anyway. So I'm going. There's a great. There's this crossing. Big sign in Spanish on the side. And I look up. What does that mean? To read the Spanish sign. Which I can't even freaking read. What is dangerous? What. What would that mean, Chris? Peligro. Peligro. Peligro. Hi. Hello. Hello. And I hit the cattle guard in my tire just misses the little patch of cattle guard. And it's a what? How deep of a trench? It's probably two feet deep. And are you? Yeah. Is it concrete? It's like a concrete hole? No. It's just a hole. It's like a ditch. But it's deep. Yeah. And my front tire. Are you full bore? Goes off that. No. I'm probably going 15, 20 miles an hour. I'm not going that fast. Not too bad. Yeah. I mean, luckily. Well, the bike stops immediately. Yeah. And I keep going. You flew over the handlebars. I flew over the handlebars.

My face. Whiplash onto your. Hits the gun case and breaks it. Is this a Pelican case? Like what kind of. No. It's your airline case? This is luckily. Oh, you didn't airline. Sorry. Yeah, I didn't airline. It's an airline case though. But it's a hard case. It's a hard plastic case. Luckily, it wasn't a Pelican. In case. Otherwise, it would have broke my face, I think. But it gave it some cushion. And the case, you know, the case cracked open and smashed it. And then you hit. I mean. Whiplashed over things. Slammed onto the thing. Slammed. And flew over the bike. Onto the ground? No. I didn't. I didn't go all the way over. You just whiplashed and came back. Pretty much my face. I just kissed the dang gun. That is a full on yard sale in the ditch. And it. Probably. And the bike went sideways. And you were alone. Was somebody right behind you? Were you alone? No. I was alone.

The other guy was ahead and just kept going, you know. Fuel's dripping out of the vent. I mean, you're disoriented. But it knocked. Yeah. I didn't knock the breath out or anything like that. No. Just. Just. I was. But it happened so fast. I didn't know what hit me. And it took me a couple seconds to be like, oh. What the crap happened to me? That was a half. That was a half. That was a half-assed cat. Yeah.

So. The ranch owner. I've always. I've got this fear that I'm going to do that at nighttime. And there's going to be a barbed wire gate up. Yeah. And I'm going to blow through it. How has it not happened? How has it not happened? Because we've all been there. Every hunter in the world has been there. Yeah. Yeah. We had a friend in high school that did that with a snowmobile. Hit a fence. Come on. Killed it? No. Come on. But Dane cut his neck bad. Come on. Bad. So, John. There you are. You've yard sailed inside. You've yard sailed all around the catalog. Wheels spinning. I can picture the bikes off. Fuel's dripping. The wheels spinning. Mag light flew off. Yeah. 11.30 at night. With the kerosene ladder that's got a broken mantle. Got the bike back straight and got on it and drove back. Anyway, so it was all good. Man, my pride was hurt. But you didn't look that bad that night, probably.

No, I didn't look that bad. But, man, in the morning, just blacker than black. As you woke up and everybody thought you ran out in the middle of the night. You got in a fight with somebody. But the good thing is you can turn that into the insurance, right? You probably got some insurance on an old bike like that. That's the good thing about it, yeah. The good thing is in Mexico, they covered that. Stop practicing. You can report that to the authorities. Make a little police report. Turn it into the insurance company all as well. Get a translator to put it from Spanish back to English so you can take it back to State Fund. Can you call it a day? No, it was nice. I mean, everybody was so cool. I've never been with just a great group of guys, nicer than heck. And it was a fun time. And I think that's what Mexico is about, too. Yeah, oh, yeah. Is you go with guys and you just relax.

And we ate burritos like crazy. And there was a cook and ranch house. And one of the other really cool things, you know, at lunch, the cook would make everybody burritos and put them in tinfoil. Yeah. And then during the day, we'd build a little fire. And instead of cooking them in tinfoil, they'd just smash out the coals and put the burritos right on the coals. Wow. And, you know, toast them up. Somehow it works down there. You know, up here you'd do that. The health department shuts you down for 45 days, minimum. And you'd taste bark. John, tell us one thing. So very interesting stories, I imagine, from this chauffeur. Oh, my gosh. So the dude that spent the time in prison. Yeah. So we're sitting there. And we've got time to talk because we're waiting six hours or whatever it was, you know, just for the guys to come and check us out. You've got to have lunch. And dinner. Yeah.

And so he's telling us stories. And the one that was really funny, he's like, yeah, we used to mess with the border guards on the U.S. side all the time, you know. He said one time we took marijuana and mixed it with water. And we replaced the guys. There's guys that will go up and clean your windshield and try to get a dollar or whatever, you know. So he replaced all their water with marijuana water and then sent them to the line where they're lined up to go. They sprayed every truck down? They sprayed every vehicle with marijuana. Come on. Dogs are going crazy. Dogs are going, you know, crazy. The border guards are beating the dogs, you know. Come on. Because they're checking everything and they're clean. Clean. And these dogs are freaking getting whipped. Like, ah. Come on. That's so funny. He says you can hear inside the vehicles. They can hear inside the vehicle, huh?

That's what they say. Like, if you're smuggling stuff and you're in line, they've got listening devices and they record it. Wow. All right. Well, what an epic experience. Yeah, it was. One other thing I'll mention is right after I wrecked, one of the other guys killed a 140-inch coos deer. That's an interesting one. And I've never held anything like. Oh, no. The pictures are unbelievable. As big as that. Is that as big a deer as they've ever killed? There's points everywhere. They killed a 143 there, too, a couple years ago. No way. But, I mean, just. Oh, unbelievable. It's a freak of nature. Oh, yeah. And that's with at least six inches broken off. Wow. Yeah. Like a 250 or 70 four-inch mule deer. Yeah. Well. Just amazing. I'm trying to relate. Johnson. That's just amazing. That is an epic deer. Unbelievable. Congratulations on what a great hunt. Glad you're back.

We do have a lot of things going. One thing.

Speaking of the live podcast. The Rodizio. Do we need. Is that a common enough restaurant for people to know. I think there's another Peruvian one that's very similar. I can't remember the name. I saw an advertisement of it. There's Brazilian. There's a. Brazilian. One Vegas. Is Rodizio Brazilian or Peruvian? It's Brazilian. It's Brazilian. There's another one I think is Peruvian that's similar. It's another meat. I saw it the other day. Anyway. Always some interesting meat there. But Rodizio is Brazilian. Okay. Brazil is known for other things.

Soccer. Okay. Where are you going with this? They had the. It wasn't the World Cup down there this year. I don't know. I'm not a soccer fan. But anyway. But they're known for their various types of meats. Apparently. That's right. And we were talking about the wolves in Colorado. And imagine being a wolf. Okay. I got a timber. I'm a timber wolf. I have my family and friends with me. And we're coming to Colorado. Okay. I'm jumping out of these little crates. Because the naturalists love me and they want me here. And they've taken me from the places in Yellowstone or Canada where there's lots of wolves. And I'm always getting in fights. I'm getting in fights all the time. And there's lots smaller elk numbers. A lot smaller deer numbers. Because we've ate them out of house and home. So now we try to kill each other to eat.

And I come to Colorado where there's tens and twenties of thousands of elk. Lots of deer. Some mooses. Some sheep and goats. And antelope. And I can have anything I want. And mutton and beef cattle and dogs and cats. And they're thinking, this coyote's getting aggressive.

Oh. This is not a coyote. This is 15 coyotes in one. Okay. And they're running in packs of six to nine. Okay. And they're coming after us. I mean the Rhodesio Grill. Colorado is the Rhodesio Grill. Of the West. For wolves. It's going to happen. Huh? It's unfortunate. And it's sad. Our last podcast, we talked about that. It's true. I don't know how that got on our minds today. But that was a perfect parallel. Well, dude. And you said it right. There's some natural barriers. Like, let's say, western Utah. Western Utah will be somewhat protected. But you know what? The guys on the eastern side and the northern, they're going to see some wolves. They are. Yeah. Well, you get Wyoming. And even though we've had wolves pioneer from Wyoming down into Utah. They have. And they've gotten into trouble. They pioneered all the way down. But there's the red desert. Yeah. It's kind of open prairie.

It's a semi-boundary. There's no boundaries for wolves. But as far as all, there's no mountain corridors all the way through. Right. So, to some extent, you know, we're talking 25, 30 years now. And they're still barely starting to show up in packs there or breeding. Right. Okay.

Now, you put that in the epicenter, they're not going to stay there. There's linking into New Mexico. They're protected. They're linking into. They're protected. Really protected. Whereas, at least some of these stragglers in Utah have been harassed a little. You know what I'm saying? And they're solos. Yeah. Or very minimal. And they get into trouble. And they kill them. Or a coyote hunter mistakens one, you know, for a 25-pound coyote. Okay. Mistakes have happened. Anyway. Anyway. But, yes. Yeah. The problem is that is. Colorado's going to be the reduziator. When you start thinking about the whys. Why didn't they pick Nevada? Because they are not going to do well in there. They're not going to do well in Nevada. That's the one thing Nevada can complain about. Elk and deer numbers and things like that. And their habitat doesn't allow for it. For high, high numbers of it.

But you're also not the epicenter of wolves. But it's kind of nice because, yeah, you're not the epicenter. And Nevada is pretty aggressive. I know, largely controlled by Democrats in certain cities, such as Reno and Vegas. I get that. But they're still very proactive. Very aggressive. Locally, it feels like. Yeah. It does feel like that. And game and fish and end now. But Colorado Parks and Wildlife, obviously, hands-off stance. Bring what may and we'll manage it the best we can. Whereas if I was them, I would be taking a stance and say, bring them. But realize we've enjoyed some good populations of different critters. And that is going to change. It has to change. And it will change. And so, anyway. But having said that, they are going to take a neutral stance, so to speak. And I guess let the public dictate what's coming or what's not versus sound biology. I don't know.

Bronson, take it away. I don't know. We've hammered it. I don't want to end on another down note. Because these podcasts are supposed to be light, fun, energetic, full of. Well, there's got to be some more Chris stories. He's not married yet. But the story's going on. Okay. Let's go. Let's pick on Chris. He hasn't talked enough. So, here are a few podcasts that go on a rambling rant on the way back from Las Vegas at the shop show. We introduced a concept. In theory, it's not a refined theory at all. But the theory, the premise behind this little game. Throw a tag out there. Was that we would each, here at Epic Outdoors, donate a species in a certain state. That you probably don't care as much about. But it doesn't have to be that. It doesn't. We've encouraged Wyatt to put his deer points in Utah on the line with the commitment that we would go help him.

Because that's part of this little games rule. So, anyway. I even told Wyatt. You're going to state on the table that you let the crew decide where you're going to ply and for what species. But the caveat is, if you let them do it, they've got to come with you on the hunt. So, it's not going to be something where you're going to be looking for a ghost for 10 straight days. Because that guy's got to be there with you. That's right. And I even told Wyatt. You apply. Let me know. And I'll, in my hunts, I'll ply around you. And so, then he didn't. He balked for a day or two. And I went and applied. Because then I got scared that I would actually have to help him for about a month. You know what I mean? He might do an open site ham son on the floor or something. Come on.

Just because you'd cut your teeth over there as a young buck at 14 to 15, he's going to want your expertise in the book list. Come on. I mean, seriously. Where did you come from that? Cut my teeth. Well, that was your first buck. Am I not right? You told the story on a podcast. It was. So, I'm just saying. He's taking. I'm going to take Carter. I haven't been there since, John. I haven't even been there since. Anyway. I'd have to get out on it. So, let's put Chris on the spot. Chris, what are you going to put on the table? Everybody's got to give something. Everybody's got to sacrifice something. Chris may not want our help. What are you guys giving? I already gave mine. I already gave mine. Mine was the first one on the table. What was that? And I still have nobody. My Montana moose. Montana moose. Okay. That was the first. It's a once-in-a-lifetime species.

You know what I think is funny? Somebody else to put a... People have hit me up about point boosting possibly in Nevada, putting their points up with mine. And you can't even do it now. Nobody's hit you on moose. Not one person. Not one. Bring it. I mean, I'll give you the meat. Well, some of it. There's a lot of guys even in our hometown from Montana that I'm surprised haven't taken you up on that. I'll give you the front shoulder. The front shoulder. I want the loiter. After I pin both sides. The 300 mag from both sides. Wah-kah. Wah-kah. Or a bow. I'll shoot it with a bow. But in all seriousness, it'd be a fun game. I got one that has very low risk for me. Oh. A sheep and a rocky in Utah? Come on. I'll give you my Utah rocky. No, you might plug and play with it. How many points you got? 17, 18? I got 17. Come on. Well, that's not very safe because you're right.

We'd go with you on that. Whether you messed up and drew something. Archery on the newfies. Okay.

It's on the table. It's on the table. He said it on the end. He said it. Archery newfies. Okay, let's do it. Available to residents only. But having said that, he's a resident. Let's do it. Let's do it. Chris? I'd love to see him smoke a freaking Cali with all the newfies. In the end of December. So we got to be there. I need to get a new bow. Let's look at those season dates real quick before we plug and play that one. No vacations for us. No cruises that time of year. Oh, hell, we're done doing that. But anyway, yes. Chris, think that one over. John? I'll have to think that over. We're trying to get Cash John's elk points in Utah. Yeah, I offered up my elk points in Colorado, but nobody wants them. I don't know. I was hoping for some really good things. And everybody's like throwing, you know, I have my Barbary application in New Mexico. I mean, wow. Wow, that's something.

Good luck with that. I mean, my desert sheep's on the table. You're not even burning a point. Yeah, your desert sheep in Utah? Wow, John. What I think is funny, this is a prime example of what everybody in the whole world is thinking. It's hard for people to throw anything out. Chris, you could draw something. John, you could draw elk. Throw it out. Let's go do it. But you're disgusted right now. You're sick to your stomach thinking, well, elk A have never been worse than Utah. Yeah, that's most of it. B, I'll never have this many points again. In the last 15 years, we're talking. Yeah, they've gone from mid-2000s, incredible, to 2020, just what they are. Less than what you've lived through. Yeah. So it's hard to say, I want this, because it's not as good as what it was. Well, I'm thinking I could probably hunt elk in Colorado, hunt elk in maybe New Mexico if I get lucky.

You know, maybe not as good an area, but go hunting elk and just hold off on Utah. Hopefully, cross my fingers, it'll get better. I'll take the bait. I'll take the bait. How many points you got for Colorado elk, do you think? Without me going to the computer and looking it up. I'd have to look it up. I think I've got 10 or 11. All right. That gives you nothing. Just give us double digits. That's a good cow tag. That's a good cow tag in some places. Give us your social security number, database. 11 or 12 out. And that's a tough place. What's a no-brainer, Jason? 44th. No-brainer. That's what I did last year. Okay. We've been there, done that. It's tougher. I've heard, but it's also had mild weather. You killed a huh? 360? That was 2016. I say tougher, that's four years ago. Yeah. Have you heard it since? No. How do you know?

I've talked to a lot of people that I've sent to the exact places. It's just a year to year deal. They never want to talk to me. It's true, though. They never want to talk to me again. I've lost friends. I've lost clients. Friends. That's a whole other story. Have we told that on a podcast, Chris? Okay. Sorry. Canada kicked him home. So we've got Chris that can't go back to Canada. John that may or may not be allowed back in Mexico. We don't know. We're buying the story of a cattle guard just because we trust John. We've never given us a reason to not trust him. But he's... But... I don't know. I'm not buying it at all. I'm taking it for face value, but it sounds like a good story. I don't know how you could think of that story if it didn't happen. It's one of those that's too true to not be true. There's more to it. He went across that cattle guard at some point in daylight hours.

I guess it goes back to he saw the sign. He saw the sign in the lantern light going 15 or 20. And he was trying to learn Spanish on that sign. He's remembering the Rosetta Stone words in his head. Yeah. Peligro. What is it, Chris? Peligro. Peligro. Peligro. He's like, oh, what does that mean? Some hooked on phonics came into mind. What's that? What's that? What's that? Ah, sh... Ah. Bah. Whatever the swear words are in Spanish, then it's over.

Shiz.

I now have a yard sale.

John, you're lucky you got your teeth. Seriously. I am. Your teeth hit the front pipe, the molding on the case. It was so easy. It would have all been gone. Yeah, you basically were a pendulum. Bah, bah. I'm lucky I didn't break my cheekbone open, and it broke my case instead. Lots to be thankful for. Anyway. Lots to be thankful for. Anyway. Well, we've been all over the map today. From Mexico to Canada. From Mexico to Canada. Rodigio Grill to our local Mexican joint. And four states, I think, touching on them. Yeah, we're talking about... It's coming out as fast right now. Eaton Oryx. Eaton Mustang. Pellet Grills. I don't know. What else? And a ply, ply, ply. Yep. A lot going on, but... Let's do a shout-out. Speaking of rifles. Oh, the MOA rifles? Yeah. Good dudes. Bob Beck up there. MOA rifles. Awesome gun. In fact, Bronson smoked a lot of sheep. A couple sheep.

His clients, a lot of sheep with the MOA rifle. That's right. What do we call it? Sheila? Little Sheila? That's what I called her, yeah. Just from my old Australian. She barks. She barks. She barks and everybody listens. Well, it's not really... You guys are making this into some fantasy romantic story. No, we're not. Anyway, if you've been to Australia, the words Sheila and Bloke are kind of used interchangeably for like a woman and a guy. So that's... That was out. I don't know how. And sometimes you name a good truck a feminine name, you know, a good gun, a feminine name. Sometimes you use some masculine names. Yeah. You never name a truck Gus. You know what I mean? Like... It's all Betsy, right? Right. Or, I don't know. Just another... All right. Keep going. Anyway.

MOARifles.com. Huh? What? Call up and order your Sheila.

Tell Bob, say, I want one just like Sheila. Huh?

Give them a call. MOARifles.com.

They're great little shooting guns. They are. We went up to their shooting course last summer. It was awesome. 6.5 PRC. Light. Awesome. Shoots 1,000 yards with 1,000 foot pounds of energy still. Call them at 541-526-1820 or MOARifles.com. Check them out. And they will be at the Western Hunting Conservation Expo, I believe. They're almost... They're always there every year. So, anyway. Super good guy. Discount code. I love Sheila.

Paying for that job. Who is... Writing checks or we can't cash? Just ask Bob. Mouse writing checks. We can't cash. Bob will treat you right. He will do a combo shooting course gun rifle and he'll treat you right. So... I got the Ascent rifle, which is under six pounds. Great little shooting gun. It's awesome. So, anyway. Love it in my repertoire. Is that French, John? Yeah. I thought it was. It is? Nice. Yes. What does it mean? Arsenal? Arsenal? I don't know. French is not... Collection? Arsenal? Something like that. Yeah. Well, guys. All right. We'll see you next week. Western Hunting Conservation Expo. Be there. Bye.

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