EP 149: Office Banter, Changes to Nevada, New Mexico

Let's talk a little bit more about hunting. It was extremely tough to draw. I think people, we had a wet year last year. Similar moisture patterns, right? We've been fairly wet this winter in New Mexico. Cranking a little bit of statistics on Nevada. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour.

What is that noise? Is that you, Chris? All right. Let's go. Carter, tee this thing up. Hey, everybody. Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, Chris Peterson, Jeff John, YY, better known as White Balls, and Devin Archibald. Archie, how are you doing today, buddy? Good. All right. Well, as we get started, it's been a little while since we've had a podcast. Of course, we've had some growing pains, Bronson.

What does that mean? Well, dude, you were busting through walls on social media. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Jeff. Yes? We're an airtight office. Who knows how long we'll be here because it's airtight. Coronavirus proof is what we're told. That's what Jeff's standards have been as he constructed this podcast room. Yes. And who knows? If we get trapped in here and a mailman brings something on the other side with a mask on, we might be in here for two weeks. So send Monster and send Jimmy John sandwiches. And I know Archie. He just wants Arrowhead water in here. Arrowhead water. Huh? Kirkland, Nestle, something, anything but Arrowhead. What is the deal with that? Isn't water water? Arrowhead's the best. Watch all the tests. Watch all the testing online. Arrowhead's better. Devin's ready to kick you in the teeth. They actually test it. He's going to fight you.

All that stuff you guys are talking about is super acidic. You do the acid test. Wait, so the good water is acidic? No. What? No. The good water is alkaline. Well. Basic. That's the problem. My mom was from Wellington. I've always wondered about you a little bit, Devin. Now I know. You've drank too much Nestle. Devin's like, I have no idea what to say here. I was just blindsided with this. When we came into this podcast, we told you you better monster up. Because you ain't going to keep up on this one, buddy. Chris, back to you real quick. Oh, great. When something's acidic, I mean, you obviously don't taste it. But what harm can that do? I don't know. I just watch a YouTube video. All right. No. But that's all. I'm just wondering. As he takes a gulp of a monster. A monster, yeah. That's so much better than the arrowhead water. Did that turn things yellow? It was funny.

I didn't even care about any of this. I had some girl a few years ago. She was buying this $5 a bottle of water. And I'm like, this is bull crap. So anyway, I went and did some research. So you did the penny test. What cleaned the penny better? Found out that basically her expensive water was garbage. And the tap water and cheap water was better. Smart water or what was it? It was smart water. Well, I don't care if it's smart or not. This monster has got 250% of niacin. It's a smart monster. 240% of vitamin B6. It's got vitamins you can't pronounce. It's got 490% B12. Pentalthemic acid. Yeah, that's a pretty high number too, but we don't have to go there. I've heard the B12 is the one that kills the coronavirus. That's what I've heard. Well, it's dead in here. That's all. Anyway. By the way, it does have 10 calories. I didn't think they had calories. Isn't the top say zero sugar?

Is that, did they change? Do you think they changed the ingredients? Because that's a problem. We get the Canadian edition. That's a problem. Did we get the Canadian edition? I don't know. I don't know. Or Mexican. I just know that this is better than a prenatal vitamin. We need somebody from Canada to verify. You're going to have healthy hair and long fingernails with this stuff. I mean, it's crazy. Okay. By the way, this podcast is sponsored by Under Armour. We appreciate them. Of course, we appreciate Epic too. Appreciate you guys. Yeah. I do want to start us out with a thought. A thought that came from lunch. And it was just, it was, it was when we left. Do you have your phone out? Do you have notes on your phone right now? There is a note on his phone. What's on your phone? Why are you looking at your phone, Jason?

Well, this, so the thought came to me, things are better when, well, so my wife works at the office. I just want to set the stage. She works at the office. She does an unbelievable job. Anybody that's ever worked with Janet is unbelievable. Okay. Having said that. Well, Chris, this is the spot where you write it down just in case we got to edit this. The in-house is always better with a rooster is what I've been told, right? And so I looked it up like, is it worth having a rooster, right? So I Googled that. First and foremost, roosters provide a free and economic way to increase the size of your flock. Let's see. What else? No, no, no, no. Right here. Here's the, here's the one that I got to that I was, I mean, that was a good one. That was good. But this one really hit home. Happier hens. Roosters will look after the hens.

They will alert them to food and even help them find good spots to lay eggs. Another benefit of, for the hens is to have a dominant bird run the flock. When the flock consists of only hens, typically one hen will take over and run the flock and this can lead to aggression issues. And I thought, that's very relatable.

I'm sorry. I sent it to Jenna. I sent it to Jenna. With your wife right now. I sent it to Jenna and she sent back a few things that I probably can't read on here. So anyway. This part of the podcast is sponsored by Jason Carter and Jason Carter only.

That's right. That's right. I'm the lone man on that one. All right. Let's move. Food for thought. Having said that now, if you've been in the office for five minutes, you realize Jason will say some things that I think a normal guy would probably get hit in the head with a bat. Only when you guys are around though. With Jenna there. Because only when you're around. And she just shakes her head. I know. She just. But if we were by herself, she would probably take. Yeah. If we were by herself, she'd beat me. But when you guys are around, I'm safe. Safety in numbers. Yeah. Well, it's kind of like Devin and Wyatt at the expo. You know? It's like two roosters. Here we go. And they're the wingmen. They're not going to let anything happen to each other. They're not. We're referring to here. They're going to just be there, got each other's back, and make sure nothing happens.

You're welcome, Wyatt. Yeah. Devin, you did a good job there. Like, I can't. That was. Timing. Timing was impeccable. I mean, it was like. It was orchestrated. I remember before I was here, there was a certain guy in this office that had to hide in an opposite booth when things were going on at the expo. I won't point any fingers. We had to what? Whoa. Hide in an opposite. Chris. Chris. You're looking down the driveway. What is he talking about? Let's talk about this. Chris is monstered up, so he should have a response. Chris is Mike just going silent talking about something happening. What do you think that took place at the expo? What is it? Someone had to hide from somebody else? This was several years ago. Several years ago at the expo. Oh, shoot. I thought I was hoping it was this. Chris P. spent a lot of time over in a booth across the show. Across the whole show. With me.

Just chatting. Figured it was okay. But he never wanted to go back to the epic booth. And now I know why. Well, he might be able to tell us. Chris, would you like to enlighten us? Well, it depends on which you're talking about. Oh, which time. Which time. One of those which time looks. We can just leave it at that, too. What are you talking about? Just leave it pretty open-ended here. Okay. He knows what I'm talking about. I still don't know. I'm not sure. There's a couple different.

How about this? Roosters look out for each other. So, that's the theme we just talked about. Okay. Yes. There you go. And there's a couple of things. This is a light-minded podcast, if you haven't picked that up by now. But there's a few things. We're writing the magazine this last month or two. We've come across a few things that are interesting bits of data. They're worth talking about. We've shared some of these in the office. Bronson's taking some notes, and he's sitting clear across the rims, and nobody can look at them. No, these don't affect anybody personally. They're just general. They're just general. We've got to paint a picture of what's going on here. Okay? So, Adam's sitting in the corner, and he has probably 10 post-it notes that are scribbled on, and he's got them in a stack in his hand. He's putting them like a seven-card draw hand right here.

Like a deck of cards, and he's about to lay them on the table. And me, Wyatt, and Devin are sitting here, I mean, wondering how this is all going to go, because we've got a little bit of a warning. I've tried to read the notes, but they're a little encrypted in Adam's handwriting over there. There's nothing to worry about. I have no clue what's going on. It's just when stuff comes up, Jason's like, write that down for a podcast someday, and that's what we're here for. There's nothing personal. So, Adam has all the stickies. I have clean paper over here. There's nothing. There's nothing. But let's just talk about a few of these. We do need to talk about a couple of legit items, but first, let's talk about the importance. There's one of these. I think this came across with Jason. He's going through data. There's only six sheep tags drawn in a unit. Whoa. And you look at the checkout sheet.

There's eight dead sheep with sizes and bases and lengths. Something bad happened. What state are we talking about? We'll just leave it. Oh, we're going to leave that. That's an interesting data point. And I remember Wyatt's comment. You remember saying this? Wyatt, it was awesome. He's like, somebody got a twofer.

Remember that, Wyatt? Yeah.

There's the only way. When they only draw six tags and there's eight dead rams. And this is not a state that gives auction tag. No. This is not a governor tag or auction tag. Anything like that? Nothing. Somebody got a twofer. Here's another one. But then we did have, just to clarify a little bit. Okay. We did have a friend of ours in Idaho who got to use his tag the following year. We do know there are medical carryover tags. That's right. But that doesn't probably explain two, but you never know. It could. But there's anomalies. Sometimes. But that gave an extra tag. That's right. But how about this one?

This was a goat hunter. Okay. That claimed they hunted 75 days until they killed a goat. Not a goat. 60 days. On a 62 day season. That guy's going to get a visit. That's not talking about it. Okay. I'm just saying that is state data. The seasons are state data. Yes. Black and white. And you hunted 13 days longer than is possible. But what if it was really a 7.5? Hey. Clear, clear. It could be. But, you know, I'm just saying it wasn't. It was a whole number. I had to throw out the whole average hunting days because a 75 mixed in with twos, fours, and fives. It doesn't work. Or 14s or 17s doesn't work. How about a couple of moves? By the way, if you think the Game and Fish doesn't look it, check out information. You're wrong. That's right. Or listen to this. My own niece. She got a little call from the Game and Fish. Hey, you know, we have down. You shot your ram here. If that's true.

You're in trouble. You're in trouble. You shot it in the wrong unit. And she totally was not. They gave them back the checkout summary paperwork. And it didn't say that on there. So it was misconstrued. Oh, there was a clerical error. Well, yeah, you could say that. Okay. I don't know. But the checkout summary had the correct location in the correct unit. Somehow the Game wouldn't have heard, you know, deer flat, whatever it was. And that's in another unit. Yeah. Yeah. So if you, just saying, like if you didn't hunt 75 days, don't put 75 days on there. Yeah. Because you might be. Or count up the possible days that you, that's even legally. Make that correct. Yeah. Yeah. Or like when you say, well, you know, when they had the dropdown box, tell us what unit you killed your deer in. Make sure you put the unit. Hit the right one. That you had a tag. That was good for. That's right.

You know what I mean? Okay. Now, having said that, when we put our numbers in our magazine, the Epic Outdoors magazine, they are double checked, triple checked. I check them. You check them. We all double check that. Do you think there's anybody really checking these things that the state game and fish guy is putting in there? Well, I mean, I'm telling you that one, no. Their plates are full. Their plates are full. And they're not private enterprise. You tell me. There's another one that we saw. They're getting double checked. On a moose. So we're only as accurate as they can possibly. On a moose. Something that's near and dear to Jason's heart. Idaho moose. Okay. And then there was a Colorado moose. You and I were happy to be doing moose at the same time. Yeah, we were. And this one, it was a bull. Sex was checked. It was a bull and a bull tag and a bull tag hunt code.

And it just said, unable to measure. On its size. Let's talk about, what does that look like? What does that mean? What are the possibilities? Well, you know, there's things called button bucks. You know what I mean? Button bucks. I've got another theory, but maybe somebody's got the same theory. What's your theory?

That took an 06 between the eyes. Oh, now that's a real possibility. I mean, it has to be. It could vary. Wyatt, you're a Ben and Crockett scorer. And when somebody does that and it's a deer and elk or an antlered game, he's out. Sorry. I can't measure your antler. You can, right? You can now. Not legally. You can bring it back. What? If it fits perfectly. Oh. Now, if it took a skull plate. Yeah, if it's broken, it fits perfectly. But if it took a .338 Remington Ultramag on the noggin, there's probably going to be chunks of bone missing. Oh, guaranteed. That just was an interesting one. The unable to measure. What about that one that I had in Colorado that was nine inches? Nine.

That's like the distance between a moose's eyes. What if it only had one? What if it only had one side? The other is nine inches. What if it has one side? Where did it start the major? Where do you start and end? I don't know. These are wits. I don't know. Is that even legal to kill? I mean, is there a branch antler? I mean, is there some kind of general standard there? A dual? No, it's just antlered bull. Anyway, some interesting things we come across. And there's more. We may both share them with you later on. Some unit comments that are very interesting. They're pretty interesting. So, yeah. I made a comment, I think, yesterday. Maybe Jason. I think Jason's the only one to hear it. I hope. I pray. And who knows if I really understood. No, you understood it. You remember what I said in a minute. All right. You remember what we were talking about.

But before I talk about that, what's the cheapest big game tag of any Western state? Think of all the states. Non-resident? Non-resident. I'm not talking about. I know residents sometimes get some. But I want to get them free stuff. Are you throwing youth? No. Adult.

Cheapest non-resident adult. What is that? Big game. Big game. Yeah. Big game. Yeah. I mean, is anything antelope and bigger? Antelope, deer, elk, antelope, moose, sheep, goat, bison. You know. I'm not talking about. Yeah. Just those. Not antlers. Wolf in Idaho? No. That doesn't count. That's pretty cheap, though. Oh, yeah. What's the cheapest one? And we talked about it, but we haven't done it. Montana antelope. Whoa. We have a winner. Bingo. Montana antelope. 205 bucks. Devin. I'm here. Devin, let's send him Montana as a gift. Yeah. You're going. Can we have a winner? Yeah. Pack your bags. You're going to head up there this October. That's a long drive. We bought Jeff's tag as long as he's willing to go. That's right. And he went up there and had an amazing hunt. It was fun. We were working on, I was, and we've been joking a lot about Jason trying to get him

a trifecta somewhere because he's got two antelope tags in the back. Montana. Montana. We've already podcasted all this. I know. That's your third. But we just were talking about how cheap it is, but then what were the deterrents? Why are we talking about this? No. You have to draw. No, I'm not talking about you. I'm just talking. You have to draw, but it's pretty easy. We've talked about the 700 cluster. Three or four points is guaranteed. Okay. Yeah. But 200 bucks is pretty cheap, but how many people would you have to load in a truck to go up there to make it worth your drive from where we are in Southern Utah? Because we've done it before. Were you there with us? No. John was with us. I didn't go on that one. We had a headwind pulling a trailer all the way through Utah, Wyoming, Eastern Montana. Oh, my gosh. I don't know how many tanks of gas we burned.

The only way it would be worth it is if with this oil crisis, crude went down to 15 bucks a barrel. That's the only way it's worth it, Bronson. Anyway, it just got us talking. It's the most expensive antelope meat on planet Earth, regardless of the tag. And it's the cheapest, technically. But, yeah, by the time you go up there, it's a... We gassed up 40 times when we drove up there last time. I'm going to continue. We hit a headwind with a trailer. A north wind of 40 to 50 the whole way. In a Chevy 6.0. Yours. Three-quarter ton, yeah. I mean, we ran out of gas a couple of times. Like, you just, you know, you're in the middle of nowhere and you think you can make it. There's 50 miles to the next town. Yeah, let's go. You guys took the freeway all the way up, right? Oh, we went over to... We went over on the freeway to about... I don't know if it was Rollins.

Where did we head north off of I-80? And then went up from that way. Oh, yeah. We did. We went up and checked out some new country. Yeah, we checked out some Wyoming stuff here and there. Casper. Went through Casper. I remember that. And then went north. Well, just from here to Casper is brutal. Oh, yeah. At about... We went up there last year. At another 12 hours is what it felt like. It's not, but... You're checking your passport and wondering if you were in the Stony United States. It was crazy. So, anyway, cheap vinyl up tags. Everybody, go. Go, go, go. Yeah. It's awesome. Go and do. Tell us about it. Well, I talk to my kids and I'm like, well, you know, because at the end of every hunting season, you're just like, well, what'd you think? Like, did we... Like, did you have fun? What do you think? And so, we went up there and killed those antelope in Wyoming.

And they're like, oh, we'd do that again in a heartbeat. That was a riot. Because they're out there. They're seeing them from a long ways away. We're stalking them. We're doing it all. And we don't have the pressure of killing a big deer on our heads or making the most of an elk tag or something like that. So, as far as just for kids going out and just whacking stuff, you cannot beat an antelope tag. It's so much fun. Oh, it's for adults, dude. It's a blast. Oh, yeah. People love it. It's awesome. Speaking of which, Sean, I'm looking at the Nevada odds because we're crunching Nevada data. We do need to talk about Nevada a little bit. The... Yeah. Petition that Nevada's going through. But anyway, the odds are just off the charts. Extremely tough to draw an antelope tag in Nevada. Not just tough, like monumentally hard. Next level. Next level hard. Yeah.

When you talk about going to Montana in three or four years, that's like 15 to 20 in some places in Nevada. It's crazy how lucky Sean got to get that tag. Speaking of, let's transition to that. He drew an awesome Arizona elk tag too. Arizona results for antelope and elk are out. And speaking of his luck, he got really lucky to draw an early archery tag with about eight or nine points. Nine points. Yeah. And I took the whole family down. And... Did the hunter ed. Got the hunter ed. Right. Stayed in a motel. Did the hunter ed in Kingman. And maybe that's what drew him to tag. I don't know. So you think about it. Another name in the hat. He's got the loyalty point. He's got the hunter ed point. And seven years. He's 18. Yeah. So he has seven years of a time. He's 17. Well, he's 17 going on 18 this year. So he had the seven points plus the two extra. Kind of a big deal. Like that's...

You were on your game and you got him a tag. Really ticks me off though. Years ago when they were little babies. Arizona didn't let you. And Sean. I had points for both of them. Yeah. Okay. And then they said you got to be... And then they quit saying... You know, they basically said they need to be out of diapers 10 years old. You know what I mean? And so then you have a five year span. If you go five years back then, your points would purge. And they were like five when they changed their rule and they hit 10 years old. Their points were gone. Pissed me off. You know what I mean? So that did the same with Colton too? He lost them. Colton too. He lost them. When Colton was five-ish. So let's call it 2005. I'll bet if we went back in history and looked it up in our filing cabinets, you'd find that's when the change was made. I know. It makes you want to say you want to have my money back.

Yeah. Babies, diapers, all of that was excluded from the draw. Montana lets you do that right now. Yeah. You get an ALS and you've... You can get points. You can build points. But it's... Speaking of ornery people in Arizona, didn't we... We heard of a few last week. Well, the points were... These cow taggers. Okay. There was... Now, this year they changed it to where it was all caps. Bull elk. Da-da-da. People still applied for cows. They're just going to apply for cows once in a while. And we even... You know, they have that point guard for a reason. And there's people that say, well, I've got three points. If I drew what I'm putting in for, I'd never turn it back. Except... It's five bucks. ...for if it's a cow tag. I've been wrong. And now I've got this cow tag that's going to come in paper format. That's right.

Might even be a little sticky on one side so you can put it around the hawk. You know what I mean? We had some people have their cards declined and they forgot to go update them. I mean, they're a strict state down there in Arizona. They're a very strict state. To their credit, they warn you. They warn you many times, but how about there's another client that we heard from that surprised he didn't draw a tag. Had enough points to draw what he put in for. Which one? There's a bunch. Anyway. We have a 26 point tag. But we looked him up. We helped look him up because he didn't know how to look himself up. Turns out, remember, we had to call on his behalf. Arizona. He had three portals. He had three portals. Three portal accounts with points in each portal. Points in three of them. And so they're like, no, this is a problem. He happened to apply with the one that only had one point. Yes.

And he's got other portals that he would have drawn this tag. And another one. And that goes, when you're up against a deadline and you're trying to just get in the state and you can't look up your stuff, don't proceed as if you're a new person. Yeah. Don't do that. That's right. And that happened sometime in the past. Don't know when. One was with his middle name, which he actually goes by versus his first name. And one of them misspelled his first name. And the other one had his first name spelled right. It's unfortunate. They'll condense him. They're going to merge him. But that. And then she's like, if he's lost a loyalty, we'll be able to see that. And we'll give it back to him because he's got three portals. Because you're talking the guy really should have had 20 points. 19 at least. Yeah. 19 at least. So it's sad. And what do you do? And I guess just be careful.

Some of these states are not forgiving. That's not a forgiving one. More and more of these states have gone to portal online. We take it for granted. The computers are smart enough to figure out that this guy has three portals. The address matches. One per social number. And probably take the time to call in. Get your account set up. Because right now, you can apply year after year after year. And never actually see your points and make sure you're in the right account. Take the time. Make the phone call. Get it dialed in. Because if not, you're going to waste years. Seems like we always have to make a handful of phone calls in Colorado, too, with people that have multiple CIDs. I don't know. I can't name you all the instances of how you make two. Maybe you hunt in person. You apply one year and you go in person one year to buy an elk tag over the counter. Fishing license. Stuff happens.

You know. And they're painful. They used to call them CC numbers. I had a CC, a CID. Conservation certificate. That's right. That's what it used to be called. So anyway, kind of fun stuff. The one thing about Arizona, just while we're on that subject, I mean, it was extremely tough to draw. I think people, we had a wet year last year. We have another wet year. Big bulls. And the guys that were reluctant to apply watched death of amazing bulls happen. And they're like, okay, now I'm ready. And burning them. Holy cow, it's wet again. Epic's telling me to apply. I'm going to apply. And, I mean, we had guys. We've personally, Bronson, seen units go from 11 to 17-plus points. Especially with season dates on 5B North. Yeah, we know certain people that didn't draw like 15. Jumped from 11 or 12 to 15-plus and they didn't draw. So it took 15-plus. It took more.

You know, 16-plus at least or partial 15. 27 archery. Yeah, that one. That one creeped. You know, guys with 17 that didn't draw. 17 didn't draw. Some with 17 drew, but they could have been random. Didn't know their tag number, I don't think. Yeah, so it's tough. Some happy people, but for those that aren't, we're moving on to New Mexico, right? Okay. Deadline's coming up here in a week or so. And don't forget that. No point system in New Mexico. Similar moisture patterns, right? We've been fairly wet this winter in New Mexico. Doesn't look like it should be a bad year. Can't predict the rest of the summer. Season dates aren't so great on the muzzle rifles. Yes, I'm talking, yeah, elk tags for growing bulls in general. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Growing bulls. Should be a great year. What's the change on the muzzle date? Well, everything's just like five days later.

It will affect some things. The season dates are a little bit later on a few things. And so normally that's a good thing for like deer, but deer rut later down there. Everything's just different deer-wise. So it's really not going to make that much change on deer. There is the gut feel of most people that are paying attention down there. But the elk, it'll hurt it, which helps elk, hurts the hunter's success, with the exception of the archery. The archery is set in stone. So anyway, and the archeries are generally the best season anyway. There are some early rifles, though, Bronson. I mean, you know. Some of them stayed the same. They just have constant openers. You know, October 1, very few. But for the most part, most of them shifted a week later into October, which means you're going to be real lucky to get much rut action still. So that's just the – that's how they say bulls.

Yeah, that's right. What else you got on them stickies? He dropped one a minute ago. I was trying to see. Oh, yeah, we got that back. Jeff? Oh, dear.

We've got a plumber in the house. Let's talk about toilets.

Really? All right. Yeah. Why aren't our toilets the same? You know those ones, like, when you go to a big venue? Like, I don't know. Power flushers. What are they called? You can flush a pipe wrench down them. You could – Why can't ours flush a pipe wrench? You could put a gold bar down there, and you'd never see it again. Yeah. Yeah, that's probably true. So you got a couple things going here. What's going on? A couple of these down here are so soft not to – We don't sleep in this office, so we don't need to wait. We're dealing with tank-type toilets. So you're just – It's a gravity feed. Okay. So it fills up the tank. Versus pressure. Flush it. What do you mean? Versus pressure. Like, when you go to a place – Pressure will use the tank plus pressure from the street and crush that thing. That's what you're saying?

Well, no, like, if you go to a commercial and you got the little chrome handle off the side, it's all metal back there. Those are the ones I'm talking about. You go to a sporting venue somewhere where they cannot – That's basically – You're opening up the valve. You're opening up. You're opening up. It has a diaphragm in there. It opens up. It lets the water through. A mini fire hydrant is what I'm going to hear. Yeah. Yep. Okay. But you can get the tank type that have a pressure reservoir inside. Okay. How do we do that? You hit the trigger and – Okay. Now – Okay. There's the – It's hard. I think that's a little extreme for what we need. What? I don't know. Do we need to douse the whole toilet? I mean, you know what – Hey. Nothing comes out of the toilet. It doesn't douse. Oh, there's – I mean – The dousing is not – Have you ever sat there and flushed it? No. Yeah. You're soaked.

Who sits down? I don't – You can't – It's terrible. You have a hard time flushing pee down this one. Yes. It separates and you have hard time. It's kind of like oil and water. So you add a little bit of blue and call it – As soon as I get done – Blue flush and walk away. Do a little construction here. It's going bye-bye. Pretty much. If you take – It ain't going to work. If you take a leak, you got to use the plunger. That's right. Jeff. You do. It's bad. All right. When the remodel's done here – And let's throw it up on KSL and see what we can get for it. You know what I mean? Clean one owner? Well, I mean – You can never say clean one. This remodel is cheap. This remodel hasn't been cheap. So let's – No. Let's see if we can – Keep it under budget. There's somebody out there without a toilet that needs one. It feels like those ones that can flush a gold bar are cheap.

I mean, there's no real – It's like a – Yeah. You open a street main line and you let go. Yeah. I have my personal favorites. Okay. Come on. Oh, yeah. What are they called? Let's give it a – Because you spent some time in there. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I'm a connoisseur of – Remember. Yes. I'm a toilet connoisseur for more than one reason. I've never experienced that in my life. Remember. Yeah. You mean Kurt? You mean Kurt and John? The walled speakers of Jeff's. Oh, we've covered this in the podcast before. Yeah, we have. We've covered this. But I thought you meant – We got – Anyway, to finish – My buddy Kip shows up. Well, he'll go in the hen house and we'll see if he – Survives? Yeah. Yeah. They might hen peck him to death. The Cadet Pro is my favorite. Cadet Pro. All right. Perfect. That's the one. Are they paying you for this? Three-inch flush. Are they paying you for this? No.

No, no, no. I don't even think cadets ever done anything super nice. I don't think American Standard's ever done. And we've had a lot of companies that have taken us on trips. Are these made for civilians? Are these civilian use? Yes. In my house? Oh, yeah. I might just pay them all out. EPA approved, all that stuff. I tried talking into them when we originally did your house. I don't remember. That was a long time ago. But your wife was super – She was super – She wasn't going to cross her. She was super like the one-piecers. I wasn't going to cross her. But we've been married 20-something years. Let's give it a try. The houses are different. You kind of like quiet ones in your house because if it's ever at night, you wake up the whole freaking family. Speaking of those. This is quiet. Speaking of these offices. We're in tight quarters. I don't care.

We need some soundproofing in some of these. That is true. There's no secrets at the Epic Outdoors office because you've got solid walls, solid floors, and a gap – a two-inch gap at the bottom of the door. Yeah. Yes. It's a problem. It's a problem. There's echoing. And when Jeff's phone's Bluetooth to his DeWalt speakers and he's in there playing video games 14 hours later. And his legs have yet to fall asleep. No, my legs never fall asleep. I don't. I've never experienced that. But apparently John and Kurt have had problems with that. And I'm like, never had the problem. Knowing what you're doing, you're spending way too much time there. That's all I'm saying. If your legs are going to sleep. Anyway. Why did we – all right. No, well, that was just a question for Jeff because we got on the topic the other day and were like, fix these freaking toilets that are like a trickle.

Anyway, the other few used 14-weight wipes. I want them to be able to go down that drain. Yeah. You know what I mean? 16 golf balls. Really? Really? Is that the test? Oh, yeah. They'll flush golf balls down. Come on. Is that a test? Like you've rattled out 16 like that. You know how we do these hunting trade shows? Oh, well, they do these same things with plumbers. Bull crap. Oh, yeah. So then they'll set up all these different plumbing fixtures. So like the Toto toilet or all these different toilets, they'll like dump golf balls and sponges and stuff down there and they hit the trigger. So Toto, wasn't that the dog on the Wizard of Oz? That means it could suck a Toto dog down. Is that where the name came from? Maybe so. I don't know where they came from. I just wonder. Come on. I love dogs. Nobody hate me. I'm not a dog. I'm just wondering how it got its name Toto. I don't know.

The Toto flusher. I don't think you love dogs. I like certain dogs. I like hound dogs. You don't like dogs in your house or your yard? Yeah, but that's a different. No, who does? So Toto's gone down. I like dogs. I don't have a dog. I do not have a dog. Do not call the AHA on me. I'm just saying I think that was an inaccurate statement. And you verified that. I'm a dog lover. Okay. Jeff, moving right along. Got another question for you. Oh. Man, there are two other guys sitting here. Well, you're here. And I've got a couple questions for them. For these three, actually, in a minute. We've got some clarification on something. I was glad when Jeff said two other guys here. Oh, shiz. There's three. We've already dealt it. Chris's speaker is coming in and out. He can't even defend himself. For all of you, this is a tip. This is a tip and trick. Okay? Because I've had this happen to me before.

I've been out before with a client, which will remain nameless.

Come on. Is this the one that was 27 pounds of feces in his body? Jesus. There was a guy there. No, we've moved on from the plumbing. He made sure he was extra regular so he didn't end up like. We've moved past the plumbing section of the podcast. It's over. Plumbing is over. All right. All right. But lost a key to my four-wheeler in the field. You lost a key? Oh. No, the hunter. I think Jeff would be able to help you with this. So, Jeff, for our listeners, if you're ever out there in the hills. This is the best. And you thought you put it in the cup holder or your bag or in your pocket. Let's just say you're in the middle of Nevada. And you are 14 hours from the nearest civilization. Dude, I'm telling you. I was a long ways away from anywhere. And what did you do? How do you do that?

Well, I'm not a mechanic, first off. I'll say that. No, I'm not. I'm not a mechanic. I start walking. That's when I start walking. Especially electrical. The thing I thought about was I'm like, okay. So, you take the key in your four-wheeler and you turn it on. And all it does is... It connects wire A and wire B. Connects wire A and wire B. Okay. So, I'm like, I lose my key and I'm out in the middle of Nevada like we're talking. Wasn't it dark? Yeah, I hiked off. Well, without that, you were... I hiked off at dark. You were afraid. You weren't making it back to the truck without starting this bike. So, I GPSed my bike, but I didn't GPS like all the way down the road. There's 14 intersections. There's... And it's... I'm talking. This is the blackest night I've ever seen. And in this place in Nevada, there is no lights anywhere. I mean, you're 50, 60 miles from... Not a full moon.

By myself. Not a full moon. Dark. I get down there and my key's gone. I'm looking around. I'm like... So, like, you know, sometimes you hide it, whatever. I'm looking around. I'm like, did I hide it? Did I put it in my pocket? I'm looking... I can't find it. It's just M-I-A... No key whatsoever. Okay. Hold on. Is anybody surprised? Oh, shiz. Huh? Devin? Huh? Why am I? No. No. Chris? Okay. Keep going. So, anyway, I'm like, oh, crap. What do I do? You know, I'm literally... I'm probably 14 to 16 miles from the truck, something like that. So, it's a long ways. And I'm like, well, okay. I know this key. All it does is power on. So, I just start freaking tearing the... Okay. Tearing my foreman apart. Question number two. Is anybody surprised?

Devin? Why do I? Chris? Okay. Here we go. Keep going. Tear it apart. Find wires. And I'm like, well, there's four wires here. Cut them. Two of these have to connect. Yeah. So, I clip, clip, clip, clip. Put two together and pop. There goes a fuse. Ooh. Those... That's the wrong one. That's the wrong one. And I don't have spare fuses. These are four-weighted fuses. Well, and so I just ran... Especially for Honda. $1,400 each. I pulled the fuse out of the winch because I know I'm not going to need that at this point. I'll put in the other hole. And then I'm like, well, let's try these.

Lights turn on. Hit the button. It starts. And down the road I go. Come on. Oh, yeah. Just wire nutted those suckers together? $2,000 later to get this bike back together. No? No. How long did you... You had to take it into a dealership. Here's the real question. Here's the real question. Well, because the wiring... I wanted the... So, I changed the wiring for my light bar and everything like that. That was a joke. It took them three months to get it figured out. It was only $600, but by the time they got everything... Everything... The lights on and everything working. That was... Oh, that was... But how long did you use your bike that way before you fixed it? That is another very... That's a good question. Very, very good question. So, I took a toggle switch. So, I took the wires. Instead of wire nutting them together, I took a toggle switch and put it underneath.

And when you started it, you just flipped the toggle switch? You just flipped the toggle switch and you got powered everything and away you go. So, it wasn't a big... That's a gear. You know, but... But that's a... That's a Jeffism. You left it like that. Is it still like that today? No. Because I had some kind of sensor that... They said it was affecting a sensor that is like a tilt sensor. So, if you roll your... A tilt. Like, if you roll your four-wheeler upside down, it's supposed to kill or something. Okay. Like, kill? I don't know. Wow. We're diving deep in a row. Here's a question. Here's another question I have. Has anybody ever had issues with a Honda? No. Only if you tear it apart and rewire it yourself. All right. Next, next, next. That's the only time you will ever have an issue with a Honda. John's had a few little... Has he? Oh, yeah. What has he done? Mine let me down one.

He let it sit too long in the garage. It just needed to be gone through. Use bad fuel. Carburetor. Really? Really. Yeah. I've rolled that thing at least three times. I borrowed it once and it would... If you let off the gas at all, it would quit. Okay. So, I'm loading it. I'm loading it in the back of the truck. Ooh. I let off. It died in the middle of the ramp. Boom. I had to catch it. Wow. It's bad. Let me preface this with one other thing about John since he's not here. If you're not here, you're not going to defend yourself before or after editing. Speaking of which, you guys cannot do a podcast without me. Ever. Okay? All right. John, question of the day. How many motors has John replaced in his vehicles? Anybody know? More than anyone else. How many, Bronson? It's good enough to know the website and the person at the website by name where you buy a new engine. Oh, yeah. Four.

We learned this last night. Four. Four. I run. I got like nine trucks. One and his kids. I've never had to change a motor. Montero. Right? And that one came from overseas, but they had to flip the pulleys because it was an overseas left-hand driver. Oh, it was like a right-hand driver. Yeah, it was a left-hand driver, right-hand driver kind of thing. Yeah. Okay, so they flipped some pulleys. Kids running. It's awesome. A boat motor. Oh. Then he did this last, what's this vehicle that gin drives? Well, that and then the Ford truck. The Ford truck, yeah. And the Land Rover. The Land Rover. Land Rover. Land Rover. Is that what it is? Yeah. That's not something you want to do a whole lot of, honestly. No, but luckily for that one's 20K. But luckily for Jason, Jason, I don't know who's asked for the new engine for the toy. Hey, hey. Okay, so I did pick up another.

I picked up another Trocam truck, right? Yeah. Two days ago. And it needs valves, probably. First off, who's surprised here? Question of the day, who's surprised? Who's surprised here that Jason's got more? So this is, so let's see, Jason, you're on number two new truck. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. It's March. I told the hen. This is your second new truck. It's March. I told the hen that I'm teaching the chicks how to drive a stick. And so, Wazoo, I got one. No, three trucks. You got one. It's banging valve.

It's popping clutches. It ain't quite right. It ain't quite right, but tomorrow it might be. Tomorrow it's a little stable.

Slash seafoam. Whatever that stuff is you put in the oil to try to seal up from burn oil. Barsley. Yeah. All that. Yeah. Head gasket fixer. All that stuff. It's going to be running thick oil. It's going to be back on KSL.

I'm going to double my money. I'm going to double my money just because you guys are jerks. Justin, you got to learn in 48 hours. I've got to get rid of this. Because it ain't good for much longer than that. Justin, lay off the starter. I'm glad it quits when I lay off the starter.

Easy on the key. All right. All right. Wow. Where did that come from, Adam? What do you mean? I mean, that started with the four-wheeler question. Oh, it's good. It was good, though. People need to know. That's something. You might do a YouTube video about it sometimes. You might save somebody's life. Did you ever find your key? Was it in your back pocket or something? Dude, I never found it. No. I think I honestly threw it in my bag and dumped it out on the back. I found mine. You know how I have a ramp on my truck? Two four-wheeler pull up in my three-quarter time. Yeah. Probably a month and a half, two months later in the same hunting season, I was unloading one of those off. My key's laying on it. So it's obviously somewhere in the bike. That was a client. Oh, yeah. On Oak Creeks, right? You're narrowing down the person. I tried to say he will remain anonymous, but yes.

He won't listen to this podcast. Anyway, but yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That was Jim.

He's a good guy. He's a good guy, but he very, very frustrated me at that point in history. It's all right. But hey, we learned something. And had I known what Jeff did, I could have plugged and played. And $600 later, had a bike to ride. So anyway. So you three, bachelors. Oh, I love these. Yeah, I do too, because we're out of it. We're not even in the conversation. This is for these guys now. I am happy to take a seat to this question. Tell us about, I don't know. We had either one or two girlfriends over the other night. Morning. I don't know what it was. Somebody leaves. There's cops coming. Somebody's calling back to tell. Somebody's calling back to tell you the cops are coming. What have you guys done? Take it from there. What happened? And then today, Chris is getting a heater fixed. And now we got... I have no idea what's going on here. Podcast is on hold. What went on?

This was a couple days ago. I don't know. This was wild. What happened? That was me. I was miles away. I don't know. You were not there? I was not there. Oh. He was up north. I received a phone call. Okay. From the sheriff? No, from Archibald here. Archie, what were you doing? It's about 8.30. I'm getting ready for bed, you know. And Miranda left, and she calls me. She says... You got a lot of red and blues. Yeah. Hey, something's going on. There's cops, ambulance, you know. And I can hear the ambulance outside and the sirens. And you guys don't live in a neighborhood. Yeah. You live in the country. Like, there's a couple acres. If you don't have four-wheel drive, you may not make it to my house. That is very true. That's true. In the mud. Anyways, so talk about timing. So you're thinking it's... Yeah, I'm like, what's going on? There's no neighbors.

I could hear Chris kind of running around upstairs a little bit. He just got home, just timing. All of a sudden, crash, bang, pop, all this noise down the hall. At the same exact time. So I'm running down... At the same time, I'm thinking, our house is burning down or somebody... I need to get out of here. Wyatt just drove through the garage or something happened. What? You know? Yeah. Had you run up? So I was just there to unplug the heater because it sounded like they were, you know, the cat's been missing. Maybe the cat got in there or something. Whoa. Hey, that's Toto. Yep, it was Toto. So it was bad. Anyways, yeah. And then I called Watts, cracked my window, thought maybe, you know, carbon monoxide. Yeah, you're thinking of all the instinctual emergency preparedness tactics to get out of the house. Oh, he's pulling out his five-gallon bucket. He doesn't know what's going on.

He grabs a 72-hour kit. A 72-hour kit with a mountain house and a flashlight and some batteries and the radio so he can hear what everybody's going through. I'm pretty prepared. It's so what happened. He's seen a lot of Red Dawn in his day. My Red Dawn. 1984 version. Yes. You're that guy. Huh? That doesn't strike me as a germaphobe. Oh, no, no, no. No, but storage. Like, preparing for the day that he might have to be. That's Jeff. Oh, no. That is Jeff. Archie. Archie. I don't have enough storage space or I would probably be that guy. But he does have a plan in place. Does he? Does he? What's the plan? Oh. I can't tell everybody. Well, yes, because you want everybody to die? You want everybody to die and flu? You want everybody to die but you? No, there'd be people that made it. No. There'd be enough to re-populate. That's all that matters. Here's the funny thing.

Anything we say on the podcast, it's like, look at the craze of paper towels and toilet papers gone in every store in our hometown, which is not a little town. And it's, I hear, hitting the valley down there in Phoenix and everywhere else. It's, I guess the number one thing if people get trapped in their house for three weeks that they need and want the most is toilet paper. Not food or water or medicine. People are making their own hand soap or hand sanitizer out of lotion and vodka. That's right. And Coronas or whatever that thing you guys showed me. One of you guys showed me a GIF yesterday. Maybe that was for my kids. I don't know. I had a Corona bottle with a pump thing put in it.

Anyway. Archie, what's your plan? Just hands. I just want hands. I could say I'm going to go south. You are? To survive. I think you could survive south of here. Well, yeah, you don't have to. Well, warmer clients always have more homeless people. They do. The further south you go. You can survive the winter. You're not going to survive the winter in Anchorage. You can survive the winter. Like, Las Vegas. You're not going to survive. Jason, that was quick. You wouldn't want to go all the way to Mexico because you'd be a little too hard. No, it's true. They say it. They say it. Yeah. Those warm quartzite and all that country down in Arizona. There's just squatters left and right. Whitehorse and Fairbanks. You're going to die. Okay. You're going to die in the summer. Yeah. So let's go back to this cop story. What happened? Well, I have my version of the story. Whoa. Yeah. Where were you?

Chris was home for once. Okay. Okay. Go ahead. It's not near as exciting as it sounds. I know, but for a minute, it sounded like somebody was going to the ER. So keep in mind, you're talking to guys that have been married over 20 years. Okay. Did we mention that these guys are all in the same house? Yeah, they live together. Devin, Wyatt, and Chris. That's what Chris refers to. And it's not Epic sanctioned. It's not paid for by Epic. None of this. It just happens to be like a three-story house that Chris owns that every layer has got a bachelor on it. Every layer has got a bachelor. And they don't talk to each other. It's like, hey, have you seen Chris? No. I haven't seen his truck for about three weeks. He lives on the top floor. I'm in the basement. Have you ever thought about texting him and asking him where he is? No. How would I know where Chris is? I live in the basement.

Chris is a rambler. Nobody can keep track of Chris. It's funny. The other day. Know that. The drifter story. Remember? The other day, Wyatt's like, I don't know where Devin is, but he got up and left about 530. I'm like, okay, these guys are best friends. Have you ever thought of texting him and asking him? Hey, where are you going, partner? What's happening, bud? You going to go pick up a 200-incher without me? What are you doing? No, never crossed as well. It's just not how it works. I guess. Anyway, so. Anyway. You're running upstairs. Your girlfriend's wondering if she could come back. And then everything just went quiet. Whoa. You know? I was sitting upstairs on the phone with my girlfriend, and I hear this monster truck pull up out front. Really? Whoa. It wasn't really a monster truck, but I thought it was. Anyway, so. Sounds like a big truck pulls up front, like super loud.

And I'm sitting there listening for a minute, and it keeps getting louder and louder. And I stand up, and I walk to the door, and I'm like, that's coming from the basement. Okay. Archie? Wait. Why were I up to something? What are you doing? On the lower levels of my rental properties? What kind of power tools are we doing in the basement? So I ran downstairs. As soon as I hit the basement, it stops. Silence. Oh, that's when you heard. So you. It stopped. You heard the running of Chris and thinking he's in trouble. Really, he's running to you thinking you're in trouble. And as you're meeting in the middle of the stairs, the power goes out. It's dark, and there's quiet. You look at each other, and you don't even speak. He was probably on the other side of the door. You just looked at each other like. I was. I was. I went into the other room. You good? I checked the pump. Yep.

Then it happened again. It did? Then it happened again. Yeah.

Devin's dying. Okay. This is a crazy house. Jeff, you've been there. Oh, yeah. Okay. There's water. There was. You did some water work there. Yeah. Water wetching and welling? Yeah. Kind of water well modification type stuff. Yeah. Water pump system. Yeah. We're modifying stuff. He's so careful. He's not sure what a journeyman license covers. It was around Christmas Eve. New Year's Eve. Did we? Yes. It was wintertime. It was wintertime. It was wintertime. It was wintertime. Yeah. 100%. Oh, yeah. So we've learned plumbing stories, electrical stories, and now we're about to learn about HVAC. So let's. Okay. So keep going. So bottom line the other day, what was the end result? Did we find the cat? Cat came out. What was it? I'm dying to know what in the world's going on. Well, the cat's a different story. Whoa. The cat's been in the bathroom, but it didn't get flushed. What? We don't.

I don't know nothing about a cat. Do not tell me. Don't incriminate me. I do not want to be an accomplice of what's going on. You guys, it's a felony to abuse critics. Yes, I do not. Well, that's weird. We're worried about the welfare of the cat. Come to find out, Chris had it upstairs. It's locked. Oh, it was in a, it was on his pillow. Yeah. Sleeping nicely. Inside where it's warm. It was outside, and these guys have been seeing it, and then it just disappeared. Well, I kept it in the bathroom because it's. This was earlier in the winter. It's coming of age. Whoa. Oh. Oh. Oh. And then you have a feral cat. Well, don't you? Yeah. I pulled up. You need that to keep the mice down. I pulled up to the house the other night, and underneath Wyatt's truck, my lights are shining, and I could see this, my cat. With the little yellow cat. With a tomcat.

There's a tomcat chasing around, and she's like, he wants to play. And I was like, nope. I went and got the cat, took it inside, put it in the bathroom. Might be too late. Just telling you, 60 days, we'll find out. Anyway. I'm just praying she was too young. Too young. Too young. Yeah. So anyway, there's no age limits in cats, so you just don't know. It could happen at any point in their time. The cat wasn't the problem. There's no laws. The cat wasn't stuck in the furnace. There's no laws. So the cat is fine. These stories have went every direction. All right. Keep going. I'm dying to get to the end. The cat's fine. Okay. So the cat's not getting fatter. The noise happens again. I went back upstairs, and I'm like, well, I don't know what it was. The noise happens again, and so I run downstairs again. Fast. Fast.

And? I'll let Devin finish. I'm just standing there in my underwear. You know, I was just about to curl into bed, and I hear it click on, and it just, I mean, What clicked on? Furnace. Furnace. Oh, okay. So I run over, start clicking the thing down, you know, to turn it down. And, I mean, it couldn't have been more than four seconds. Crap. The door flies open. Sid, Chris's dog came in, and I just, do, you know? Just scared the crap out of me. And Chris goes, do.

You know, we're in our underwear. It's nine at night. Two bouncers in their underwear looking at a heater with deer in the headlight. Look. I didn't know. He scared the crap out of me. I like a picture of that. I didn't know if anybody else was even home. Once again, they live in the same house, but they don't know if anybody's truck's in the drive, who's on what level. It's just good neither of you were packing a concealed weapon in your underwear. That's right. That's right. I mean, you guys got to have some safe rules around there about noise, strange noises at night. Do not come packing. Just. We got a bad straw on every level. I know. I'm still trying to figure out how this all ties in with Miranda and seeing the lights and sirens. She happened to leave that night. It's just timing, dude. I thought our house was burning down, or I thought somebody drove into the side of the house.

So they're in their underwear. One's coming from the top. One's coming from the bottom. There's sirens outside, and the shotgun, pistol. Totally like a domestic dispute down the road. Oh, is that what it was? Completely different. Who knows? Nothing to do with us. Just bad timing. So we got a fix today? So we're all good. So the furnace is freaking out. It didn't get fixed, but they found the problem, and they got to order an new part. Okay. All right. Well, any of you HVAC listeners out in there, which we heard from one of you here about two hours ago, I said, get another podcast out, because I'm ready for one. So send us some tips. So it's like, I'm listening to another podcast, because y'all need to get going. So here we are. Here we are. The blower fan blew apart, and so it had like shards coming out of it. And it was just grinding. Tink, tink, tink.

And of course, it's against the duct work, which echoes it. It makes it louder and more extreme. Wow. That's funny. Very extreme. I haven't had any of those problems in my house. So now tell me, do you have heat in the house right now? Upstairs. We have two furnaces. Two furnaces. So the guys in the bottom are- Chris, you're upstairs. A little chilly. A little chilly down there, Wyatt. I asked them if they needed a portable- It's just good. They need a portable heater, I got some. It's not the middle of winter anymore. It feels like it out there. In the immortal words of one of Jason's cameramen one time, just layer up. Come on. We got it. We got to tell some of those stories. Just layer up inside and go to bed. Call it a night. Huh? You're in your- You're in your- I don't know how he lived. Sleeping bag. Is that the guy in the van? In the van. 40? In Hawaii. No. No. 42. Sleeping bag. No.

Any sleeping. Just remember? He was- I said- Yeah. We got up in the morning. We were in a camp trailer. Remember? It was negative seven. Yeah. Okay. My trailer water froze solid. It was so cold. Solid block underneath there, right? Knock on the- You know, carefully knocked on the door thinking, there's a dead man inside that van. It's just a picture. A great big O'Connell line. Yeah. Frozen solid piece of metal. Glass. I mean, glass windows all the way- Comes out fully dressed. And I'm like, how'd you do? I did okay. I said, really? I just layered up. I'm like, holy cow. It's been a joke ever since. Wow. You just laid in the back of his van with clothes and just put more clothes on. And it was one of those utility vans, so it had nothing- Oh, bare metal. Bare. Bare. Unbelievable. Lay in the bed of your- Sleep in the bed of your truck for all intents and purposes.

We went to town and got him a sleeping bag at Walmart. I mean, geez. That was one of the coldest I've ever been. When they were taking care of the deer out there. So cold. Oh, that was so cold. And then the guy, like, there's a guy that walks over and he's like, hey, you might have- And we're like, no, we're cutting this thing up and we're getting the heck out of the cold because it was cold. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we're like, we're out of here. Yeah, please leave because we're freezing. We're done. We're done with you. One thing. Should we talk about Nevada real quick? Yeah. Let's wrap up on that. Let's talk about Nevada. Let's have a hunting theme. We've talked about every professional trade and occupation known to, you know, all of us. That's pretty much. That's right. Let's talk a little bit more about hunting. We're cranking a little bit of statistics on Nevada.

Nevada is kind of near and dear to our heart. Of course, it's close to us. Got a lot of things to apply for and whatnot. We've drawn a few tags over the years. You know, kind of the crazy thing about Nevada, they've got a petition going where, you know, guys kind of- We'll call it a citizen proposal. This is not an end-out proposal. That's right. Careful to distinguish that. That's right. Where basically they're looking, they would like to see the system changed right now. You can apply five choices in the draw and you can apply and actually draw multiple sheep tags, multiple desert tags or whatever. In your lifetime. In your lifetime. Now you've got a waiting period of 10 years between tags, but you could in theory. And they have a squared point system. So your name goes in the hat exponentially amount of times.

So if you have 20 points, your name's going in the hat an additional 400 times on top of that year's application. So anyway, with all that said, that's not quite enough. They would like to see a percentage reserved to people that apply with the most points. And so anyway, with that, possibly kick down the choices available down to three and a few different things. And so anyway, they've been bugging us. People have been bugging us to, you know, voice our opinion on what we think about those changes. So what changes are they proposing? What are they wanting? Their main thing is, and they're targeting sheep, I guess, as the worst example. And it is. I mean, sheep tags, there's not enough to go around anywhere. No state can meet the demand, not even close. And one of their biggest proposals is to make 25% of the tags in Nevada for both targeting

sheep, but it would apply to everything available to the maximum point holders. Not just square your points and throw your names in a bunch more times and let that sort itself out in the draw as you get, you know, 10 points, 100 names, extra names in the hat. They want to actually set aside, which that's probably the biggest thing, you know, in addition to cut away, you know, maybe two or three of the choices. And we, you know, I think, we think, you know, cutting choices down to a couple of choices that are valid makes sense. Yeah. Right now, Nevada is five choices. Five choices. And you go for the hottest two or three units, which you may not even care about other than it's the hot units. Everybody talks about it. And so I'm going to put it. And then go to your hometown units or something you're willing to accept as your fourth and fifth choice, right? Yeah.

Whereas if you had two, you would have to decide, do I want just trophy? Or would I, something I'd willing to accept, something's close if I'm a local, something's close to my hometown or whatever. And they get to decide and it would, they would not be in the draw for three of the five hunts. Can you imagine that? Just, I mean, just take, for instance, Utah. What if Utah, on the general deer side of things, what if Utah went to five choices? Well, we talked about that, Jeff. Think about you. You would never draw Pine Valley. You'd do Pine Valley, Zion. The whole state might put in for... Everybody would, right? Beaver, Fillmore, and then you'd end up at Box Elder, right? Or whatever. So basically, it's going to crush the odds of anybody ever really drawing like a Pine Valley unit. And then I'm still going to get my tag down there, but it's going to blow the odds.

Whereas now, if you choose a unit down here, Jeff, then the people that really want your old hometown are going to get it. Yeah. You know what I mean? But, well, and to some extent, let's say there's, you know, I'm rounding, but 15 units that non-residents can put in for desert sheep. If you get five choices, most people put in five choices. A third of all the non-residents are putting in for a third of the units. You know what I mean? That's right. You know, and California, there's only five units. Everybody's putting in for all the same units. All of them. All of them. And so, you really, there's no better odds. There's really no better odds. And there's no way to do it. Everybody's just hammering it. A little bit like what goes on with Utah when they allowed non-residents to put in for all species. It's just like, why not? I'm now, now antelope in Utah is once in a lifetime.

For all intents and purposes. It's not labeled that, but everybody that was doing deer and elk, which is 95% of people added antelope. For 10 bucks, you're in. And they're all crushing it. For us, we have to choose deer, elk, or antelope. Non-residents. And what are you going to do as a resident? Well, you're probably not going to do antelope. So, our odds are good there. So, I guess in Nevada, I mean, if you just want to look at it from that standpoint, sheep is probably, I mean, there's people that are, unfortunately, we're going to die. We're all going to die without enough sheep tags. I bet you I'd die without a Montana tag or a Nevada sheep tag. Yeah. I mean, it is what it is. Yeah. Nor are you entitled to one, in my opinion. Yeah. Having said that, it's nice to have the option. And as we go along and we're gaining points, we're also gaining points for other species,

and we're drawing tags for once in a while deer, antelope, elk, other things. There's the other side of that. But, you know, Nevada's fairly expensive to apply for, right? They make you buy a hunting license for non-residents, and then it's $15 to $20 a species. So, it's pretty easy to spend. Plus incidentals. Yeah. $260, $280. That's right. $220 to $250 a year in Nevada. Not if you're even playing all the Silver State tags, which is another $100 or whatever. Okay. So, it's already fairly expensive. And, you know, you start weighing out. And every year, you do have to talk to people whether it's worth their time to start. Because, let's face it, for sheep and elk, they're a long ways behind. All right. Antelope, it's tough. Deer, at least there's no waiting period. And if you just tell them, hey, if you're not as picky, you can go deer hunting somewhat regularly.

But, now, if you took out 25% of all the tags and they're set aside now, that's just another layer of, oh, should I even start Nevada? And I think it could potentially harm Endow in terms of having non-residents say, all right, I'm losing to, I'm out. And not that we're looking out always for Endow. People could really see the true odds all the way around. Oh, look at it. Look at them in Nevada. They're terrible. They're really bad because of the five choices and other factors and quality. And it's a good state to apply. But you put another layer on, you know, take that to the next level of what's going on in Wyoming, which we've talked about a bunch, which they give 75% of their sheep in there to the max. To where they only give like four random sheep tags in the whole state last year, all right? And now they're making you front it up front, paying you 2.5% or making you pay 2.5%.

And you're seeing guys dropping like flies there. And you can't justify them to keep doing it. No. And so what level is too much? And people are like, I'm done. I'm done with that. I'm done. And let's say they, let's say we do put a 25% of the tags go to people with the most points. Let's say we do do that. At some point you're getting to these 20, let's say 22 point tier, 20, 21. There's hundreds of people there. Hundreds. You might take care of one or two layers quick and then you're going to be bogged down again. Again, it's a Band-Aid that's fallen off. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. It helped the very, very top guys. The guy with 23, I'm sorry. You're still looking at the draw. And those guys, those guys, they've had some amazing hunts over their life. They've seen over-the-counter tags. They've seen maybe even party hunting, like legalized. You know what I'm saying?

They've seen, they've had long, great, amazing lives with, you know, multiple good tags. I mean, we know a lot of guys that have had multiple desert sheep tags. I'm sure there are. Well, but we're just stressing Nevada's system. That's all we're guessing. We're trying to write a wrong answer. And we're saying this from the standpoint, I can guarantee I would be in the max pull on some of these things. We're 20. I'm not talking desert sheep. I'd really, I really never plan on drawing a desert sheep tag there, period. But for some of the other species, you know, you get 20 to 21 points. You're going to be, I'm going to be in the max point on some stuff. And so I'm saying that with the hat that I would benefit. I would benefit if I did that. I don't, I just don't still think it's a long-term fix. It's not going to fix it.

It'll probably make it worse and recruitment stuff or make it worth jumping back in once you, people burn their points once for a deer. All right, I'm done tapping out. Just be careful what you wish for sometimes. I mean, we say it a lot on the podcast. We like the variety of all the states. The fact that they're not all the same. Some have point systems. Some have square pit systems. Some you set a portion aside for the high point. Some you don't. You just play the state the way it's dealt to you. We really, when I say we don't care, that means that sounds a little bit too harsh. But we'll react and we'll play the game, right? And that's what we do. Well, we're somewhat of a guest over there. You know, as a non-resident. Yeah. We're not going to drive the ship for them. Yeah. Having said that, once you change things, you usually don't change them back.

And so it's just hard to keep splitting the pie. The pie is tiny as it is. It's tiny as it is. There's only so many sheep tags. And so it is what it is. I don't know what else to say about that. That's going on right now. They've got a commission meeting coming up here a week and a half-ish or whatever. March 20-something. 21st. And it's, anyway, that's going to be discussed, voted upon possibly. What do you think the biggest weakness there is? The five choices? I think you change it to two choices. You've done monumental change right there. For us. I think it will impact it as much as the other. Now, the people with max points in certain levels might not agree. Say, no, that would affect me better for that past. Okay. For you specifically. But for the masses, I think that would probably. So I would say anybody who, you know, knows somebody in Nevada. Here's the deal.

No, I think everybody can go out. The commissioners have an email address. It's on the indow.org website. You can get on there. You know, I think if you go to the bottom, it's something about contact us, our agency. There are surprisingly few people who voice their opinion about these things. Well, so what's going on? When things aren't truly broke in a system, nobody even, they don't even voice their opinion to say, I like it the way it is or whatever. And so, you know, the squeaky wheels may get the grease on this. And a few people that are passionate about that particular change or whatever, it may get ramrodded through by a few guys. And the rest of the state might not even know this is going on. That's all we're saying. Well, and that's not anything unique to Nevada. You know, we're picking on, quote, picking on Nevada right now.

But last month, there was an issue going before the legislature in Wyoming that was going to be a major overhaul and change there. That didn't pass in the Senate. So maybe that takes on another form. But all these, every state goes through things that are, that have big ramifications. As the resource and tags get, you know, tighter and tighter and more finite in number and the hunters increase in number, they're just going to create a demand. It's a supply and demand thing. And it's natural to want to change.

Just be careful what you wish for. That's all. Some change should be good. I liked five choices. I like thinking about rifles and archeries and muzzlers. And it's so fun to plug and play and all mix and match and, you know, but at the same time, if I only had two choices to pick, that pulls me out of the draw in three other places. I mean, yeah. You're not overlapping somebody else that those three choices are their near and dearest to their heart or whatever. You know what I mean? That's their three baby units. And you're putting them because I got five to fill up, you know? So it would just, when fewer people are overlapping apps all across the state, doesn't matter for what species, that's going to improve some odds. The people that are true trophy hunters are going to stick to that. People that are more fine with the, you know, moderate trophy criteria, they're going to

put the trophy units their first two or three choices and then go to their unit. And so it's going to make you choose now. Anyway, if that were to pass. But who knows? We'll keep you posted. Probably won't change anything for this year, but never know. Could happen. If you've got an opinion, go to indow.org. Get on there. Email the commissioners. You know, we know commissioners that read every single email they get. So anyway, that's how you get your voice heard. I got one other question.

Did you apply to use your points in Utah this year, Wyatt? My points are in the basket, yes.

Somewhere. I still have a week or so to pull them out and reapply if I want. For points only. Yes. Points only deadline is coming up, Wyatt. This podcast is a week too early. March 19th, you probably ought to have a decision made. Yeah, I got a little bit of time still. Yeah, sure. Well, we don't even make you divulge. But it was Wyatt had a theory this year. Tell us what your theory, after 18, 19 years of being unsuccessful in the deer draw, what was your theory this year in your timing of applying?

To be the very last one in right on top of the pile. Right on top of the pile. That's right. So what was 1156? And he gets mad at me for writing paper checks. He makes fun of me. Very offensive. Because I write paper checks. And he wants to be the top guy on the pile in a computer application? Come on.

There we go. Wow.

Wow is right. Well, we just didn't want to talk about everybody else and not you today, Wyatt. We had to give you a few questions. You guys, we had a couple of questions. I'm not surprised, though. I mean, it usually does resort to me getting a rash of crap. Well, it started when you were gone. If you're ever not here, yeah, nobody has permission to do a podcast without me either. Ever. Ever. Don't even start the mic. Well, me either. Okay. All right. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa. The only person that really matters in this conversation is Chris. Well, we did one about Chris. So me, Wyatt, Devin, and Chris will have a podcast one day and we'll just rock it. Adam, we've got to figure out how to hit record because we could do our own podcast without these guys or we could talk about some other things. No way. You can't do it without Chris. Got some more sticky notes.

We'll get John involved. He knows the beat. We've divulged all of our gory details on the podcast, Army. We would sacrifice quality, but we could record it on our phones, Carter. Yeah. Just you and I on our phone. There's some people do it. And then just put play next to the mic and re-record it. And if they don't look at it, we'll put it on our own social medias. And then how do you get it online? How do you get it on? Oh, yeah. No, that stuff can happen later. We can talk about the actual. We're talking about the actual. Jason's face right there was like, I didn't think about that part. No, I'm not talking about the public. Adam has Becky, and Becky can figure out how to get it on. She might could. But I just meant for getting stuff, content recorded. That's what I was concerned about. Yeah. We could do the recording without you, Chris.

We would need you to plug and play to get it on the internet. Yep. Yep, yep, yep. All that. I've gone through my sticky notes today, except for a couple. We got to save some good ones for another time. Anything else, boys, before we wrap this up? Getting hot in here. I'm done. I'm done. Tapping out.