EP 161: Live Every Season Like it's Your Last

75% in the max point draw, 25% random. Hunt often. Use your points. Don't be scared of going out on this hunt. If you see charges on your Utah card in the next week or two, that's on the front burner. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, John Peterson. Of course, we got the boys in here too. Chris is, uh, what? Had a little, uh, on TV. How about that? That's right. Chris, tell us about it. I was on the internet, not TV. It doesn't count. And COVID, it's all TV because internet is TV during COVID-19 era. So Chris had an audition on America's Got Talent where his dog sang. It's pretty cool. But Chris sang as well. Chris sang as well. That's the only reason we got on because they've had singing dogs and they've had singing people, but they've never had singing dogs and people. Wow. It was pretty awesome though. That was, uh, a week or so ago. And they told you, Chris, you're, you're going to Hollywood. Or is that a different show that says that? Oh, I think that's a different show. Yeah, that's, they say that too. Yeah.

Bronson, if you have a question about TV shows, actors, actresses, whatever, Bronson knows his stuff. I don't know where he got it, but he knows. Who's, he, well, it goes back to John, that photographic memory that he's got. We're thankful for it here in the office. I'm jealous. Me too. I'm jealous too. What? Say something. It's like Seinfeld. You guys are going to act like you've never heard of Seinfeld. No, we've heard of Seinfeld. That's kind of like. We've heard of Seinfeld. Modern family. But anyway. So do we want to go in on this anymore? Chris was out there front and center singing, did a great job. His dog was singing along with him. Got 100%. Is there five votes or four? I don't remember all of them. There's four votes. Yeah. So didn't somebody's dog vote yet? Simon's lap dog. Simon's lap dog liked it though. Yeah. That's right. If you want to see it, it's pretty easy to find.

If you go to Facebook and just search America's Got Talent, it'll say the online edition or something like that. Right, Chris? Any other keywords? It's fun. Chris Peterson. No, I'll just go to their. If America's Got Talent Facebook or their YouTube, you can find it. Chris has got far more talent than Epic Outdoors deserves. That's all. But it does take talent to kill bucks. You know, you got to pull the trigger. I just want to clarify that we have talent too. It's crunching numbers once in a while. All right. Well, we want to thank Under Armour. We appreciate them and their support with us here at Epic Outdoors. We've got some things. In fact, we've got a meeting with them here next day or two. I'm looking forward to that. And kind of set us up for the year on our relationship with them and things that they want us to get cranking on. What's up? What's up? What's up?

I'm seeing all of these hand signs. I just don't want to miss anything, John. Let me know. As we get started here, I guess, Bronson, we kind of wanted to, we got another publication, Back to Back, cranked out a couple magazines within seven to ten days of each other. That's right. The June magazine went out, oh, ten days or so after the May. So you should be getting the May or have it in your hands. June's on its way as well. And, yeah, we just covered the last two states, which are California and Arizona. What do you want to start with? Let's talk about them real quick, and then we'll talk about other fun stories. We really like California, but let's start with Arizona. Well, do you want to get over? Go ahead. Say what you have to say. No offense to people in California, but it's just a shorter state. We don't have as much to say, but I like to. Stu, June 2nd, call it a day.

I'm a checklist guy, and I like scratching stuff off, and so you do a quick chore, you're making headway in your mind before the three-hour project gets there. All right, so check this one off. All right. How many seconds? 15? 30? 60? You got the mic, and it's hot. Well, anyway, California is a state that, from a non-resident perspective, is a little bit hard maybe to justify adding to your application schedule. It's a fairly expensive, non-refinable hunting license to apply, and then it's a minimal application fee up front after that, but the real kicker is they're pretty conservative with their tags. I'll just phrase it that way, with their tags to non-residents. So you can draw one antelope tag. I think they give like 250 a year, but non-residents can only get one. Those sound like drawing odds to me. Well. Not total tag numbers in an entire state. Yeah, go ahead.

One elk tag, one antelope tag can have a non-residents name on it. Cow, bull, one total, right? Of all three species. It just says elk. So yes. All three species. It could be a cow too. Tooley, Roosevelt. What I like to call regular elk. But anyway, keep going. Bighorn sheep, they did change that a few years back that limited us to up to 10%, which this year allows us to have two. And when they do the drawing for. Wow. Two. Okay, keep going. Sorry. Sorry. It's double. It just blew me away. It's double the antelope and elk. Wow. It adds up to all the elk and antelope tags combined. Totally makes sense. It's all semantics. We give 250 antelope tags. We're going to give one to non-residents. And we're going to give 10% of the sheep tags. We're going to give 27 sheep tags. We'll give you two of them. Wow. Anyway. Super nice. But it's desert sheep. So overall, it's a little bit tough to apply.

They do run. They have a 75-25 split when they break their tags apart. 75% in the max point draw. 25% random. But that's when it comes to elk, antelope, and sheep. And they run the random draw first. Which is... It makes you feel at least better that if you have zero points or less than max, which is 18, that you've got a chance. Non-residents that have max don't feel so good because we could possibly pull in a... Our non-resident quota could come from a random draw. From two random dudes. And a guy that's paid his dues through the course of time. Might not have any left. Yeah. He's looking at it going, hey, I'm ready. And they're like, we already issued two. That's right. Some years, however, we've talked, and they never draw a non-resident. And, you know, it's just in the sheep tag. Even though they're eligible for up to 10%. Some years don't even meet that.

So, I guess don't let it stop you. But it's not a no-brainer state to apply. The deer's entirely different. They don't have a quota system on that. But they also do it opposite. They run the 90% draw. 90% of the deer tags go to people with the most points. And then a 10% random draw. So, they leave almost nothing. You know, because a lot of their better deer units have such low quotas anyway. You're dealing with like one tag in the random draw. And they're terrible odds. So, we cover it largely from a perspective. To give the residents, everybody's in the hat together. So, the odds you see portrayed in our magazine are just the odds. Everybody's in the hat together with those limitations. Like I said, if a non-resident antelope comes out of the hat, boom. That's the last non-resident. Same for elk. Same for two sheep. Deer, it doesn't really matter. Whoever gets the tags wins.

So, deadlines June 2nd. I don't know. What else you want to add to that? Well, I was just saying, it's really tough to compute the odds. Because when we're allocated up to two, you know, up to two for the entire state, say, for sheep. That's all I'm saying is, you can look at the unit by unit odds. One in 2,500. Okay? Pretty awesome. One in 1,500. One in 1,100. It would be one thing if those were your odds. But then we're limited to two total tags. It's just hard. It's just hard from a non-resident perspective. And we cover states from a non-resident perspective. Assuming you residents kind of know where you're going and what you're doing. California is one of those states. Even the residents are a little bit in the dark in large part. There's a lot of you guys out there. Don't call and crush me for it. There's a lot of guys that know what they're doing.

But there's a lot of guys that are calling in. And we get a lot of demand. I mean, let's face it. For what California is giving non-residents, it deserves about an honorable mention in the magazine. It deserves an update, an alert of a half page or a page. But we cover it in large part for the residents as well. We have a lot of residents there. Residents are obviously a lot cheaper. You're probably buying hunting licenses to hunt. Turkeys or pigs or other leftover second choice deer tags, things like that. So it's a no-brainer for you to do it. We've got several awesome stories. World-class, some awesome rams. And people that drew in the random. They tell the story. Somebody's happened. Now they were residents of California. But still, cool stories. So, yeah, that's coming at you. Again, deadline June 2nd. What's the cost of that non-resident? Well, it's $178. $178.20.

Then you'll have some plug-and-play miniature fees of just being, plying with a credit card. You know what I mean? And then, what? What? I don't know. I didn't say anything. All right. And then, but, you know, as far as that, you'll have a controlled hunt application fee of $8.13. $185 if you're just going to do a sheep. I mean, I'm rounding. $85 or $6, whatever that. So, not cheap. For really slim odds. For desert sheep, though, as you were, you know, crunching the numbers on this one, Adam, I mean, the one thing that kept coming to mind was how incredible the sheep are for how many rams they kill. I think it was 28 rams last year. I'm counting every dead sheep. You know, there's a few fundraising tags and things like that. And of those, half of them were 10 or older. Yeah. Unbelievable.

That tells me they're probably slightly underhunting some of their units because, I mean, there's multiple 13 and 14, even a 17-year-old ram on the checkout. I've never seen something that old. Never. What does one look like? You know what? We saw one. 262 down there in Nevada. We might have seen one. Remember him? We might have seen one. I mean, horns were flaking off. Like, it's seen so much sun. Oh, yeah. Remember him? Oh, I did. I mean, I felt bad for him coming to water every day at the exact same time. He was probably only a low 160s caliber ram, but, man, he was old. And the older you get, you know how we get into those habitual, you know, this is what we do. We walk in, we grab a monster and a Diet Coke. We're double fisting both. Maybe a little deal of water so we feel better that we might drink a water throughout the day. Of course, Devin. Nestle. Devin's crushing the water.

So, anyway. Anyway, and then, you know, so when you get older, you get all of these, you know, you get all these habitual habits going on. And this is what we do in that old ram. Remember, he'd come in at clockwork, clockwork, clockwork, clockwork, by himself, by himself. Anyway, so, speaking of getting older, Bronson, I wanted you to tell us a story about when you've aged a little and you were chasing your kid around the house. Haven't I already told this? On the podcast? I don't know. I don't think so. I wish somebody would say yes and I wouldn't have to say it again. But I thought we had. But, well, yeah, it was, I remember it was June 10th, probably, what, two years ago. Come on, June 10th. Who remembers this kind of thing? You want to know why? We're talking about a good memory. No, you want to know why? It was exactly 60 days before I had a doll sheep hunt in Alaska.

And I'm like, I am, I'm screwed. I'm screwed. Just for all of you that had kids around the house or even teenage boys, we were all there once. When we're kind of becoming of age and you're trying to test your old man a little bit, maybe a little wrestling, we all did it, right? You know, you're all trying to show your old man you got it, right? Well, my boy and I were having some wrestling around the house and kind of stopped. And he walked by me in the kitchen and knuckled to the ribs or something. And I turned around and started running down the hall after him and caught full speed after about 15 feet, caught my big toe on the door jams. Just jammed it straight into it and went down in a massive heap. And I am, I am in excruciating pain. I mean, I am, I am dying and rolling. Of course, he's laughing, laughing his, laughing his heart again.

And we're getting, supposed to be getting ready for church. Oh, it hurt. And so, yeah, I limped to church. I've never, and it was terrible. Came home and it's, it's a Sunday. And so fortunately my orthopedic doctor is a hunter. He's a sheep hunter. And I texted him. I said, hey, I would not be bothering you on a Sunday if I didn't have a problem. Can you have, I know tomorrow's your church. Can you look at my, was it your pinky toe? Oh, my big. Your big toe. So you're saying, can you look at my toe? Can you look at my toe right before we go to church? No. I didn't actually go to the same church as him. So I just said, I knew his surgery days were Monday mornings. And I just said, hey, is there, I know Mondays are jammed. And he replied back, dude, you have somebody canceled. I'm going to have, you got to be here right now. Cause he's going to be in his, you know, scrubs or whatever.

So anyway, I went there. X-rayed. He goes, yeah, you know, good news and bad news. And I'm like, okay. He says, bad news. It's shattered in a bunch of pieces. It's just your big toes. Just, just. You need it. It's like, it's like. The good news. He says they're all together. And, and I, even if I did surgery, there's no big pieces to put the pin to. They're just all in there. So you just got to wear this boot and don't, don't move it or you're going to have problems. And, uh, oh, so anyway. So I had 60 days with the sheep hunt that I killed my big doll. That was the hunt. And, and I had trail cameras. I had to be running in Nevada and pull those down before I left. Right. Cause that was, I think the first year they made you pull them down by July 31st. So anyway, three weeks later or something, I threw the walking boot away because it's just, you can't hike in that thing. Anyway.

So that's, it was bad. It was a, it was a long recovery. My toe still doesn't touch the floor. Wow. I'm just kind of up in an upward position. So my second longest toe now is my main toe. Man. It's got. And I know I'm telling you guys all more information need to know, but it gets very tender at times through the year because it gets overused during hunting season. There we go. Moving on. Jason, I think why you brought this up to me is you had a similar experience this week. Well, I did. I had a similar experience. It had nothing to do with my feet, but my thumb. Yes. That's what I mean. Just a, just a getting old moment. Man. Well, yeah. Yeah. The story is just painful just to hear it. I can't imagine. So I'm out there with my dog. And my dog is, it's like a Jack Russell. It's like a terrier mix with a pit bull. Probably. We don't know. Isn't a pit bull a terrier too?

Well, let's call it a double terrier. It's Jack Russell. It's got the white bobtail. Tons of energy, right? But it's built boxy and got a lock jaw on it. Like you can't believe. I can swing the dog around when she's locked on to a little rubber toy. I can swing her around. I can over my head, back on the ground. Very aggressive. So anyway, and she hates it when I grab like, I'll grab around the neck and her eyes, cover her eyes, and then she'll loosen a little grip and I'll pull it out. Right? That's the game. This is the game you're playing. Like poke out her eyes and then she lets go. Me with Ty, you're playing this with a pit bull. You're playing games with a pit bull. Okay. All right. Throwing her in the air. Yeah, just throwing her around, right? And before, she's latched onto my fingers before and she, he's drawn blood before, but I'm thinking, I don't need a pair of leather gloves.

You should always have leather gloves with this dog. Super nice. Would never bite anybody. So I pull it out of her mouth and she's sitting there and she's on her haunches looking up and I bring it right down to her nose and jerk it away. Right down to her nose, jerk it away. And I'm playing that whole game. Okay? See how it's going. And so, you know, she only has to grab onto about four or five inches of it and then she's into my hand. And I'm just, you know, of course, dog can't hurt me. No big deal. I'm faster than her. I'm crushing her, crushing her, crushing her. All of a sudden she leaps. Full bore. Full bore. Open mouth. And that great big old tooth is that? Down low? Up front? Down low off the side? It's a two incher, right? Or an inch and a half? It comes perfectly between my thumb and my thumbnail and goes the entire length of the thumbnail. Lifts it up. Well, I had to have.

And down she goes and I am crushed. Okay? Remember when you get slivers as a little kid? I know. Yeah. Just a sliver brings you to your knees. Okay. Under your thumbnail. This was a full tooth. Full tooth. I walk in and I go, Jenna, look. And it's just, and I touch the thumb. I touch the nail. And it gushes blood all the way around. Oh. And she's like, oh. And she's a nurse. She's like, that's bad. That's bad. And it was. It was so bad. So anyway, I took a lower tab I may or may not have found in the cupboard and I went to bed.

Straight to bed, throbbing, counting my heartbeat all night long. Today, okay, how many days later? Still bandaged. This morning we took it off. I touched the nail. Out comes clear and blood mixed all the way around the nail. And I'm like, she's like, yeah, we're going to probably have to go have that removed. Anyway, I'm not mad enough to pull it off. I'm not mad enough to pull it off. I think it's still attached to the quick. It's the one to pay the full anesthesia bill for them to put you completely out. Oh, just put me out. Lay me out. I mean, I'm a guy that when he was, when I, when I give blood, like I'm all but out. I get white. I've passed out. I mean, I'm that guy. I kill stuff, gut stuff, whatever. You give me a shot, I've got a problem. You draw blood, I've got a problem. And if you lift my fingernail off the bed, I've got big problems.

So anyway, as we get older, Bronson, here it is. Here we are. And it's harder to heal. I mean, geez, the injuries. We don't need to go any further. That's for another podcast. Let's talk kidney stones or give us something. Why? Devin and Chris in their 30s, they're all like, what are these guys freaking talking about? Give us something. I can't throw anymore. I threw a rock the other day into a pond. No. Shoulder problems? Yeah. Too much baseball. All them rotten eggs from four months old out of your fridge. The eggs? Yeah. We were throwing those eggs. Wyatt was throwing like 10 yards farther than me. Luckily, they didn't go backwards. You're guys' age.

Yeah. No, my mom. Our age. When I was like 13. How old is that, Wyatt? 13? 13. She got a bow at a garage sale. Thing was like, it was like 1992 Proline. Is that like a PSC? Like 70 pounds, right? And I had some arrows that were my grandpa's and just stuff mixed together. It was like, I mean, that has to be part of my shoulder. Yeah. Well, I threw my kid out. We'd play dodgeball with those little tiny, you know, like a little leather ball. And Colton, he loved this game. And I loved it as a dad. I could sit there and just pelt him, pelt him, or try, right? Yeah. He's running back and forth. I threw my arm out forever. I mean, thousands of those. He would love the game. I loved the game. He loved the game. We were bonding. Let me give you well. I'm crushing him. I'm crushing him. He's loving it. Oh, I do that with my kids. Stand to the top of the stairs and they're at the bottom.

And it's like, you're playing deer hunter. And I'm the hunter. And you kids. Go, you know, go from one room to the other at the bottom of the stairs while I try to hit you with the ball. You know, from the top of the stairs down. Nerf balls. I'm not throwing baseballs. It reminds me of that. So, Wyatt, I know you. Go ahead. I was just going to say, not near as old as you guys, but I am a little sore from a wiffle ball game. Whoa. You had a. And I heard you come in talking about that. But then, and you reminisce. Was it you or Archibald about somebody's dad when your kids got really mad for burning. Yep. Burning holes in the lawn. Buddy Judd's dad playing wiffle ball at Judd's house. And his dad was gone for a couple days. And I mean, there was like four or five of us all day. All, you know, weeks in summer. Burned a hole. Four or five holes in his yard.

It probably still doesn't grow right to this day. But you had a wiffle ball game this weekend, huh? Back in the old Juab High reunion. Oh, no. I was actually in Gunnison with the girlfriend and her family there. Oh. Well, that's not. But you had to. Did you take a bunch of Ivy Pro from beforehand? You can't show yourself halfway through a game that you're getting sore. No. With the potential in-laws and girlfriend. Just toughed it up. Oh, come on. Little icy hot. On the way home, he opened the glove box. We all have it. Bronson, Tums, and Advil. And toilet paper. I'm getting to the point in my life where I might have to start that. Tums, Advil, and toilet paper, and you can do anything. You might have to learn from you old guys. I used the toilet paper. I had to go down to. Okay, Carter. Whoa. Well, I had to stop.

As you know, yesterday I just did a smash and grab down to California and back. Had a little part to deliver down there. Okay, I didn't know you were supposed to wear masks in California. Anywhere outside your vehicle. I didn't know that. There's no restrooms. There's no restrooms, and you're not going through a drive-thru and getting food without a mask on. It was hard on a guy. What happened? Oh, I mean, I'm just saying. I got into the glove box. He was thrown out of a hair salon the other day. I had to wear a mask. I was. I walk in there, and she's like, where's your mask? I'm like, I don't have one. She's like, why are you here? I said, well, I checked in online. And I'm getting a haircut. Yeah, she's like, you can't be in here without a mask. So I left. Went to the same haircut, you know, great clips. Did they have your credit card on file? And they were like, come on in.

I was just fine. Did they have your credit card on file or anything like that? Run your card? Ah, he loses his deposit. No. All right. Let's talk about something else. We wrapped up California. Chris, do you ever get sore riding horses? Yeah, I do. I mean, I get off a horse. Yes and no. It depends on what I'm doing. If I'm just riding on the trail, no. Yeah. But if I'm like loping circles, and I do that for an hour, back muscles get sore. Yeah. I don't even know what loping circles means, but. I can picture what I think it means, but. Going fast on the horse. I went on that. We went on that horse ride this last year in New Mexico.

Yeah. I thought I gave birth to a 10-pound baby. Just going to say it out loud. It was rough, Chris. I'm not going to lie. Gave a whole new respect for horse riding. You just don't use certain muscles. I rode them last year on sheep punting. No. You just don't use those muscles except for riding a horse, or the way you sit, ride, bow leg, and all that. You're not acting like a man after you get done, either. You're just like, it kicked my butt. All right. Arizona is also included. We covered sheep, deer, bison. Both down there, they have desert sheep, Rocky Mountain bighorns, as well as mule deer, and coos deer. We covered it all. They're in this June-July publication. So, anyway, deadline to apply there is June 9th. We're kind of excited. This is a big state. You know, your hunting license is good for 365 days.

So, some of you may have a valid hunting license, not have to buy it during this application period. And then some, some of you, if you bought it last year at this time for applying for deer, you were good through the elk, which already happened back in February, elk and antelope, then you'd go ahead and apply for sheep and deer and have to buy that hunting license now. So, anyway, we're super excited about that. It's a big state for us. We're huge fans of applying in Arizona. We've killed some animals down there. I killed a desert sheep and super lucky there. Beat the odds. We did get, you know, as non-residents, 10% of the total. So, you know, they give a few more than 28 does over there in California. Yeah. Yeah. It's one also that has a split application period. So, if you applied for elk or antelope earlier, you may have still a valid license.

But if you, you had one on the deadline, valid on the deadline day back in February and it's since expired, just make sure that you buy one. It's obviously then valid on the deadline day, which is June 9th this year. And you're good to go. That's all that matters. If it's valid on June 9th, go ahead and apply. But you need to check your license because their system hasn't been smart enough to say, you're all good. Your license is good to go. It just pulls in a license number that may expire. It may be valid May 6th today, but it might expire before now and it'll still let you apply. That's a scary thing about Arizona. Their system's not really good about knowing your license or alerting you, I should say, that it's going to expire before the deadline. Just make sure it's valid on June 9th. If it's valid until June 8th, you've got a problem. If it's valid on June 10th, you're okay.

So, just make sure it's valid, the application deadline, like Bronson's saying. As far as youth, you can apply these kids. You can grab that hunting license before they turn 18 if you want. And it's good even if they're 18. So, if you pre-bought it and it's good for 365 days. And if that carries them through the next application period and it's valid on that deadline date, it's valid. A valid license is a valid license. And so, yeah, so $160 for the non-resident hunting license and then $5, Bronson, you and I bought our kids and took them turkey hunting. So, anyway, $5 for the hunting license and then, of course, you've got the $15 application fee. So, anyway, they do have that June 25th deadline to update your credit cards. That means that they're going to start hitting cards the day after, generally speaking. 10-26, yeah. Usually 8 or 9 in the morning the next day.

That's pretty much what they've been doing. They're going to mail out the tags. They're saying by July 31st, but just so you know, we'll usually get credit card hits. And then shortly thereafter, it seems like about 7 to 10 days, they'll publish the results. So, anyway, yeah, awesome. Let's talk about deer options. What are some options? What's everybody doing? So, coos or mule deer? Let's start there. Pretty sure we've got a room full of mule deer hunters. Nothing against coos. We've been on coos hunts down there. My boy had one. Jason, you drew one after you drew your first go around on a mule deer. You drew one six or eight years ago. I wasted a tag. Yep.

Wasted a good mule deer tag on a gray ghost. Well, I'm just saying, you could go either way. Deer points or deer points, right? Those coos deer are awesome, and they are deer points or deer points. You can use them either or. I did an early season. That particular year, it was wet, and there was just, you know, there was a lot of pine nuts out there, and they just didn't have a reason to leave the trees. And I want to blame it on that. Having said that, you kind of get out of it what you put into it. And I probably didn't put the effort that I would have. Say, I had an Arizona strip deer tag for mule deer. You know what I mean? Let's just be honest. That's probably a safe assumption. So, anyway, do you have those options? You know, if you have 13, 14 points, you can get one of those late December hunts for coos deer. What an incredible opportunity.

They're starting to rut, move around, kind of vulnerable that time frame. Well, and speaking of that point range, 12 to 14 points, that's another range that you might, if you're realistically looking to get in draw, a lot of people think of the strip or the late kaibab or 12 bee hunts. And, of course, any mule deer hunter, that's your dream, right? But to be realistic, you might be looking at the early kaibab hunts, just like a late season coos or the early season kaibab hunts, if you got that 12 to 14 point range. They've been having really good hunts. Don't you remember in our former life, but when we were pups like these guys, they were given 800 to 1,000 early kaibab tags, remember? And now they're down to like, what, 450, 425? I'm going totally from memory. Under 500. I think it was around 450. Well, your memory's pretty darn close. We're sitting at 450. Yeah.

But I mean, that's half. I mean, half of, and I want to say only maybe 10 years ago. Is that roughly? Yeah. 10 to 12? Not a terrible. It's not like I'm going. I'd have to review some regulations. Well, I'm not. I'll be right back. I'm not saying, I'm not going back to 1975 dates. We can do that. I'm just saying, in our recent times, in our lifetime, in our recent lifetime, it wasn't that high 10, 12 years ago. What I'm trying to say is the kaibab hunts have gotten, they're pretty good right now. They're, it's thick trees. It's thick timber. It may not fit every hunting style. You're still wanting to hope for some weather to get the deer drifting down a little bit lower country. But they've killed some great bucks the last few years. They're not as easy. It is their more opportunity hunt per se. Yeah, kaibab's had a bump in quality. I mean, it is something we always think of 13B, 13A.

And you should. 13B, 13A. Go there if you can. But these kaibab hunts, like you're talking about, they've had a bump in quality. It's pretty darn good. Genetics are some of the best in the world. Yeah, they are. Anyway, you've got those opportunities. And then, of course, we covered 3A, 3C, and a few others. The early hunts, like you're saying, in that 13, 14 point tier, definitely be looking at some of those early hunts, you know, like you were talking about. And then, of course, we list the point tiers needed in the other units. And for the special tags, hey, you're going to have to pretty much have max or a very small random chance. Because every unit in the state has an opportunity for a random tag to be able to be drawn. One tag goes to non-residents. It'll go random. But from two and up, there'll be at least one 50-50 split.

So you start looking at units like the strip with six tags or seven tags. There's going to be only three max point tags. And that's really increased the weight that people are going to get out of the way, so to speak, and burn their points in Arizona. When you're only burning three tags or so off the top for non-resident max point holders and 13-beat man, 100, roughly 100 people left. That's a slow go. So may consider some of the late 12B, 12As, hunts. Depending on where you are in age, if you're content, you've got a good schedule going this year, yeah, swing for the fence. Moistures should be off the charts this year. It's been a great winter and spring. Yeah, pretty incredible. And remember, we get up to 10% of the tags. But where there's so many non-residents that apply, we usually meet our quota. So that's kind of, you know, just a small little something.

It doesn't mean we're guaranteed those tags, but you could draw a random tag. We usually get them on the best units. Yeah. There's one tag that'll go random. So anyway, we also covered, you know, somebody emailed me and says, anyways, I must say that a lot. And I didn't think I did. I've been noticing it in this podcast. You become a little self-aware or conscientious or whatever when people are critical of you. So whoever said that, yep, I'm thinking about it. So I'm going to try not to say it as much. I'm still going to drink Monster. Anyways. Anyway.

Some incredible sheep were harvested. We, you know, of course we have the photos, stories in our publication. What a, what a, you know, great year it was. Sheep are just doing incredible in Arizona. They feel, feels like there's 170 rams in almost every unit, Bronson. It feels that way. Yeah. For sure. We did list all the units available to non-residents. We didn't list them all, just the ones that are available to non-residents. And the ones that are available to us have two or more tags as a tag quota. The one taggers, those are for you residents only. So we didn't cover those. But I still think it was roughly like 35, if I remember right. It's a big number of units, counting, counting all sheep units, anything two or above. They're pretty, pretty notorious in Arizona for splitting units and splitting seasons.

You don't see anything like maybe Nevada or even Utah's gotten, Utah's gotten double digit tags going to this year on a unit. They don't really do that in Arizona. Yeah. They'll split seasons or they'll add, you know, split units, you know, different highways just to distribute hunters. I think roughly 115 or 20 total sheep tags in the state. And we can draw up to 10% of the statewide total on those or no more than what, 50% in any hunt code. In any hunt code. So if there's four tags in a unit, non-residents could draw up to two of those. Yeah. That's right. No more than two, period. So anyway, anyway, I'm telling you, I'm sorry to all you listeners. I apologize. All right. Need a little clicker. I'm done. Are we good? Do we need to talk some more stuff about this, Bronson? What other little neat facts can we pull out? I don't know. It's all in the magazine.

I mean, you might, some of you listeners that aren't members of the magazine might wish we'd go into really great depth, name and unit by unit and capabilities and things like that, but it's in the magazine. And for the members of our service that get the magazine, that's all in there. Just wanted to mainly, we usually do an overview and hit the highlights. Deer, just period. Deer, period, and sheep are highlights of Arizona, period. All across the board. Great opportunities. If you're doing Arizona at all, you're going to make the commitment to buy $160 non-resistant license. Do all the species you're thinking about. If you did elk, obviously you're just going to add the $15 sheep and deer application now. It's not a state. If you're an ultimate trophy hunter that you can plan on hunting often, it isn't.

But if you have to get a little bit creative, things like that that we've talked about before, maybe go on a maybe less than desirable season for either coos deer or mule deer just to go hunt. But to the extent possible, do it. Be realistic. Max points for sheep's 31, max points for deer's 23. So if you're far from that and not near approaching that, you might be realistic about where you're sitting. And if it's a good year, it's been a great moisture year down there, consider using your points somehow. I agree. You guys, you know, Wyatt, you're kind of quiet. So I've got a couple things for you. I'm going to go with the Kevin Call theory here. What's that? What's that? Just not to disclose any of my personal life on podcasts anymore. It's too late. Yeah. I just got thinking about that email and there's some depth there. There was some valid points. Yeah. Well, there's a couple questions.

Some follow-up. I'm just teasing. Actually, you've spent some time on the Kayabab. And so I was just going to, you know, you guys have spent some time, you know, hunting the West and whatnot. I'm just going to kind of get your take, you know, as far as that. Of course, you've been affiliated with some incredible animals and the guides that are hunting those areas and whatnot. So just give us a little quick five minutes on your take. Well, just, you know, the last couple of years, the Kayabab has been coming on pretty strong. They've taken, you know, governor's tag cow or bucks out of there if, you know, multiple, that type of deer, even on those earlier hunts, you know, they took that one a couple of years ago, big velvet deer up on top. When I was there scouting it a few years ago, was finding some pretty big deer as well.

You know, Archibald drew it a few years ago and he hunted some pretty nice bucks with a bow on that earlier archery hunt. No shiz. Really? Despite that injury-laden shoulder we've heard about? I hunted the bow. Did you get a crossbow permit? Come on. Be honest. We heard about that shoulder in your youth. It was a, that was one of, I ate that tag. That was one of the roughest hunts of my life. Was it? It rained straight, straight for six days. It would let up. I'd go out. Just, it was crazy. Felt like I was in Washington state, just mushrooms growing everywhere. My tent was leaking. Yeah. It was a rough six days. Well, a lot of guys. So no wonder you've been really quiet during this whole Arizona deer discussion. But I hunted it the year before with a friend and we had a great time. I mean, archery hunting. Yeah. I mean, it was, it was fun. We just. Drive around and glass. Yeah.

Lots of access. You can do. You're on the, you know, the top of the Kaibab Plateau there, thick trees. Yeah. And they've got the burn now. Yeah. That's kind of cleared off a lot of country. You know, glass the burn, drive around and hope something happens or sit water. Yeah. And if it's raining, like Washington, you're not going to be sitting on it. A lot of guys ran cameras and the rain comes and it changes their plans. And it's thick. You're not going to, you know, unless you hunt mid-level or low, you're not going to be glassing. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a, it's a cool place though. So it does seem, you know, some good deer have been coming off on the bow hunt every year too, the last few years for sure. Well, yeah. But when you put 450 people out there, they're going to kill a few. Yeah. Someone's going to kill you. And we got one in our publication. What a great job they did.

They actually knew about the deer, went and made it happen and they stuck to it. And I think that's one common theme we're seeing with guys that are consistent is when you read these stories, it might've seemed easy, but if you really read it and think about it, they stuck after him, stuck after him, stuck after him, stuck after him, seen him jumped out, made it happen. Like, yeah. Overall was the hunt easy. Was it easy to kill that deer? I mean, the end result, you could have said that was a pretty, pretty easy hunt or a gift, but the, you guys are proud about the arrowhead. Okay. Anyway, they're drinking arrowhead. They're. Who is? Don't throw up in your mouth. He just grabbed whatever was wet, Devin. No, it's way better than Nestle. I know. He's going to get cancer. He doesn't even know yet. So, so anyway, but, but I think the common theme of, of some of these animals are, are

guys are hitting it hard and, and going back to that specific deer, going back, back, back when really they could have just said, all right, he's done. He's been bumped or whatever. And just ignored the deer and went to all new country. Is that the cover buck you're talking about? No. It's one of the velvet buck that's inside. It's got the big, big giant eye guard. So fork and eye guard. Yeah. On the left. Special deer. Cool. So, so anyway, those guys are hard hunters. So anyway, we appreciate them and, and submitting the story. Some awesome deer stories and sheep stories and everything. It's jam packed. It's a great issue. It feels like a little more stories than normal. And it probably is John, just simply because of, uh, we're only covering two states versus three. Maybe not. Maybe it's just my. More deer stories than, than in years past. Yeah. Lots of great deer stories. Yeah.

It's awesome. It was a great year. Moisture was awesome last year and it's shaping up to be similar this year. You don't often get that on the strip and five abas to back to backers. And it's looking like, you know, on occasion, it's pointing to that. So anyway, let you off easy, Wyatt. Well, thank you. Do you have anything else you want to add? You guys have been hunting all over that state. Well, I don't really have much. No. Nothing else. No. What's your personal application strategy? Shoot for the stars in Arizona. He's going for hitting dingers like wiffle ball. Shoot for the stars. Hope for something to happen in that state. We've talked about these two once in a while. And kind of a common theme comes up is they're just, they're, they're, they're scared to draw too many tags and we've got to change that. We've got to, we've got to inflict our opinions and preferences upon them.

Case in point is Nevada. How long is the application period? Two months. I want to say like two months. Well, let's talk, let's say first, let's say March-ish through May 4th. Okay. When did you get your apps in, Wyatt? The very last day.

Scared the crap us to do it. But he's sticking with his theory and theme of the year, which remind our listeners, what is that? I've always just been a last day guy and to have it on top of the pile. So as long as I've known it. And how many, how many tags have you drawn doing that that way? I haven't drawn one lucky tag yet. There you go. It's time to change. But you did tell me the other day, you know, Wyatt, he does our license applications. He said, I'm going to be the last guy. You know? The very last. I like to have all our guys done, taken care of, and then I go in. That's just. Oh. That's how we. You walk in. So it's kind of on principle. It's like, nope, I can't even think about my personal well-being and tell the needs of my clients and our clients as a whole at Epic Outdoors are in and their services are met. But then, if there's time remaining, I'll get my app in.

But if not, I'll dismiss Nevada for you. And I always chalked it up to apathy. Just kind of apathetic and maybe. Either that or he's a procrastinator. Well, I didn't want to say that. I was going to go with the P word. But I wasn't going to say that. But it's very controlled. Like, this is a very decisive. So what's your theme? Nothing impulse. What do you mean your theme? Like our common? Just that we apply late? I just think you guys. Okay. All right. I'm going to say it. Let's go. What I meant earlier was his theme back to Utah, which, hey, we're going to find out any day if that paid off here with credit cards. But his theme would there be the last one on top of the pile. Okay. There's another. There's a part A to that. And I'm going to apply for something that's just out of reach so I feel really good if I get it.

But I'm scared to draw and use all my points that I've gained since I was a kid. Huh? Am I wrong? Well, am I wrong? It is an 18 point. He's pushing the chips to the middle of the table for Utah. It's a big. Times that by 10 states. That's where I'm going with this, Bronson. You and I, we just throw them in there and, hey, let's just see how it happens. Whatever sticks. Whatever sticks sticks. And these guys are much more deliberate. They're much more deliberate in vehicle purchases, tire purchases. They're just, I don't know. Anyway, and not that everybody should do what Adam and I do, but it's the right way. Spontaneous truck purchases. Don't be scared. Let's do this. I will say this, though, about Arizona. Take a little extra time because there is no backing out, plugging, playing, swapping units. How many times did we swap units in Nevada? I don't know how many. 10 or 12. 3 at least.

But that's because we applied early. We had COVID hit mid-March. And it kind of, we had a magazine done. And we're like, oh, remember we crushed out like Colorado, Nevada, Montana moose sheep. And I mean, I kept having to remember if I'd applied for some of them and go check my receipt because it had been so long ago since I, was that this year or last year? Because we applied clear back in March for stuff that's due May 1st. Yeah. So anyway, we're all in and done. What do you got? How many tags did you draw last year? I didn't draw. No, I drew Colorado and Wyoming. Two. Yeah. Two. Okay. I'm in for a unit three points over max from last year. Yes, he did it. He did it. Adam. One. Well, he did it. He got to start somewhere. Good job. They're breaking the trend. I mean, one. Two deer tags last year, that's more than I've had in the last 10 years. Okay. It's true. And I ate six last year.

I ate six of them. Made good on one or two. One.

Ephesus on one. But just, I just would like to see you guys eating tags like we are. Make you feel better. Go down on a limb. Go down on a limb. Jason's so concerned with this. He actually helped you last year eat one of those tags in Colorado. And he's never let me live it down. Am I right? Exactly. He's like, I had four points. I did what Carter said, and I failed. But he failed right there along with me. That's right. That's the one thing I can say. Me and my wife, we both failed too. And we followed each other home with their tail between our legs. Pretty much. Jason always likes to say when we get a monster out of the fridge, nobody likes to drink alone. Give me one. Nobody likes to eat tag soup alone. No. We all feel better when each other are doing the same kind of things we are. When you fail, you want it to be a team sport. I mean, that's right. Moral support.

Hey, we lost as a team. We win as a team. We lose as a team. That's right. I resemble that comment. I agree. It's kind of like when Adam and I went to Devin and Wyatt. And being the father figures that we are. I don't know where you guys. I do not where he's going with this. So just he's on his own for a minute. But we were looking out for their best interest as well as the company, wanting them to draw more tags than they can use. And we presented with them a little plan in Nevada. Okay? Okay? They both, the gears were turning. I don't know how fast they were turning. And I could see it in their eyes. Neither of them looked at us in the eyes. Both of them looked down at the floor. Listened to what we have to say because they have to. And then they walked away. And I looked at Adam and I was like, they're not even listening. I cannot believe it. This is free advice.

Coming from guys that know, right? Like, we've been doing this, boys. Let's do it. Come on, come on, come on. Sure enough, Wyatt's in there looking up his points. I'm like, wow, we might have got a bite. It was basically advice on how to make their points go to zero again. Right. Right. Which is what we do. We're good at that. We're good at that. Devin comes in the next day. We know Devin totally spaced us off. Devin comes in this day and he goes, you know. I've been thinking. And I'm thinking, wow, what are you thinking about? Like Nestle water? I mean, where are you at? You know, Chris had an arrowhead. He's going to get cancer. Where are we talking? Before you finish that thought, Chris. I just did a little reading on the back of my, you know, arrowhead water. And it says, Nestle waters North America. Whoa. So arrowheads owned by Nestle. Whoa.

So basically they take your arrowhead water and they add a bunch of minerals to it. To make it taste dusty. Like it's been in a cooler for two weeks. It's the same. No, no, no. A little hazy. So this is the fresh, you know, out of the mountain. The pure stuff. Then the Nestle water you get has minerals. I want to bring something up. So I used to work in a cheese factory up at school up at Utah State. Okay?

When we would have cheese on the line, they would wrap it in a certain wrap. And then when that company's order was done, they'd left the cheese on the line and we'd wrap it in a new wrap. Really? Yeah, I think that's what they're doing with the water. Oh, I'm following you. I'm picking up what you're putting up. Except regular human beings can taste the difference.

I'm feeling like arrowhead. It was assembly line. We wrap it with Nestle. We wrap it with arrowhead. We give a different price breakdown and call it a day. All right. So let's run this subject real fast, though. We can't leave the water because I have another addition. Some people may not know what we're talking about. We had a water challenge. Which Devin did go back a few podcasts ago. I don't remember the name of it, Chris. But anyway, he nailed it. He claimed Nestle water was better than anything else on earth, including tap water. Well, what we have in the office. Okay. Around. Between Arrowhead, Dasani, Nestle, and tap water. Okay? And he nailed all four. It was a blind taste test. We're going to call it that. And it was, we all witnessed it. Chris has brought to light some evidence today that calls into question whether there's really

any difference because they're made by the same company. But one thing I haven't divulged till right now live on this podcast, Devin, is that day. No, you got it right. So don't. Oh, God. I was going to say it's such a sick joke. But I took the empty Nestle bottle that day and I filled the rest of the Arrowhead and Dasani and put it in there, knowing you'd take it and you took it to your office and you drank it. And I never heard a complaint. And it was half Arrowhead and half Dasani. And he thought it was a placebo. He thought it's in a Nestle bottle. This is Nestle water. I watched it. He watched it and it happened. But I wasn't going to bring it up. But since it's been brought up. That happened. It did. You drank. You guys act like I have the scent of a coyote. We are impressed. We were sure you were not going to be, you're going to get maybe two out of the four.

But like every magic trick, something could have happened that tipped you off. I don't know. That's right. Or just luck. Random 25% drawing odds four times in a row. So, so, so. But from now on, you're going to check the seal every time you drink a water. So back to the tag in Nevada. So then he comes in and says, I've been thinking. And at the end of the day, he didn't take our, our, our advice, Bronson. How do you know? I know. I know. So anyway, no big deal. I just want everybody to draw tags. But he's, you know. But he's pretty confident the way he's applied in other states too. And it was very well thought out why he didn't, why he didn't jump on it. It was, it was, it was more thought out than I, than I would have thought about myself. Like that, meaning, meaning, you thought about it way more than I ever. You gave it 24 hours. I slept on it. I give it five minutes.

Oh, less than that. 2.4. And then I look back on it and go, ah, I better pull that out. It's hard. I, I love Nevada. I've hunted so many units there that I'm, I'm torn. So. Well, you're hoping that Colorado comes through. And when it happens, I want to have lots of time. And you're hoping Colorado really comes through. And you, that's when you had a three or four point buffer, maybe. Counting on that one. So, hopefully that, that happens. Yep. I just update on the moose hunt. I don't know if we've talked about that before, but are you guys still going? Everything's on? We've never brought that up really, have we? No. I think everything's still a go right now. I'm just waiting for this COVID. So, we've got Devin and Wyatt who are headed to Alaska to hunt moose. We pushed our will on them for that. Definitely bent their ear on that one. Hopefully you'll have a great experience.

So, they can get up there and do it. It's an opportunity I wouldn't have taken, but hey. Just teasing. I thought it was great. I know we're excited. Just hoping, you know, everything pans out and, you know, we're able to get up there with the COVID and do some hunting. Haven't bought tags or? Pretty shut down. Fair, yeah. Fair, yeah. No, no. Still waiting on that. Yeah. Smart move. So, uh. I'm pretty confident. Yeah. I think it's looking good. That's September. Early September. I hope so. It is in the United States. I'd be a little more nervous if it was Canada just because it's international. I mean, it's another barrier. You know, you guys are going to be fine. You're going to go up there and quarantine for 14 days and you'll be just fine. Yeah. By the way, we're going to need 14 days off. You got another 15. Yeah. Then the other 15 for the hunt. So it's going to be somewhere around 30.

I'd love to see you guys going out on a limb. I think we could all vote, but that's okay for you guys. Yeah, that's okay. See you in 28 days. One thing I think. Carter spent that time on a bear hunt. Come on. Come on. That was below the belt. Involunteer. And then the next year I did another dumb thing and went up and wasted some more time. Didn't even get in the field. Didn't even get in the field. You guys are brave souls ripping off that scab. No, it's fine. They're going to rape off. It probably feels about like this thumbnail is going to feel. It's fine. That's fine. I agree. I take risks. So I'm a risk taker. And an antelope hunter like you declared on the last part. A trophy antelope. You know, people are calling me a trophy antelope. Have they hit you? Oh. Are they hitting you nonstop? Remember McKenzie Sims hits me and he's like,

Boy, I never realized Jason had such a thing for these antelope. I do not have a thing for antelope. You announced it on the last podcast. You said I am a trophy antelope hunter. A connoisseur. Okay. And I talked about you being a connoisseur. Of what? I don't know. I think I've killed. Let me count. Yeah. Three antelope in my life. Three. How old am I? I don't know. I'm pretty old. 47.

Yeah. Three. That's one for every. 46 and a half. I don't know. How many years? My memory serves me. 15 plus years. That's not very many. I don't have a photograph of memory. I pick up brake gloves. All right. So let's. That's what I think one thing we've been thinking about guys. And this is a serious note. Well, and it's. It's taken the. The ration that these guys just took about. Burn your points and go hunting. But taking it now to more of a serious. More of a serious level. So we've had. Members. Multiple members. And. It's kind of been a heartbreaker. Just that these guys. Have come down with. You know. Medical illness or whatever. And realize the true end. Can see the true end. Of their hunting career. And I don't know. I don't know what it is. But it's. And we're not talking about one specific person. We're talking about. Five plus people. This year. You know. And that have been.

Open with us. There's a lot of you guys out there. That may feel the same way. Or going through something. Tragic. And. And haven't told us. But I just want to say. You know. The one common theme with them is. You know. And they're looking. They're still trophy hunters. And they. They have families. And they want to make the most of. The time they have left. Or. Or they can just see. Like. Like. As we're getting older. We can see the. And you can wrap your arms around the. The end of that tunnel. And. And. You know. As you do so. It's just. This common theme of. Enjoy your families. Hunt with people you love. You know. I had a guy tell me. I don't want to learn new people. I want to spend the time hunting with people I already know. And. And. That might be friends. That might be family. It might be guides. Whatever. And. And then. For some that have a little longer time than others.

You know. Is. Is hunt often. Hunt. You know. Use your points. Don't be scared. You know. Of. Of going out on this hunt. I don't want to save money. It's just. I'm not a factor. And it is a renewable resource. However. Certain times of your life. It feels like you could. Go on a hunt. A fort. And then make it up. You have a little time to make it up. But. Anyway. Just that. Enthusiasm. For. Going hunting. Well. And might. Might emphasize to. Some of these gentlemen. That. We've dealt with Jason. For. A couple. 20 plus years. Maybe. Yeah. Are not. Not that old. Some are not even 60 years old. So. We're not talking about people. They're seeing the end. Hey. I'm 79. I hope I have one good. Deer hunt. Left or elk hunt. Left into me. That's not. That. That's maybe a natural. Throughout process. And that. If we're all fortunate enough. We'll all live a long life. And that will hit us all.

At some point too. But we're also talking about. Stuff that comes up. Premature. And that's what's. We've had a couple of. Scholars Jason. You've taken them this week. That are pretty sobering. People. You know. Breaking news. So to speak. With us. But. In a private way. So we're obviously not going to. Talk about who they are. Or things like that. But it just causes you. To pause a little bit. And to the extent possible. Within your means. Of yourself. Your family. Your situation. And we. Go hunting. Use your points. Don't. Don't hoard them. We've talked a lot about it. Seems like. This year. In our. In our. Intro to the magazine. Just don't. Don't think you've always got something. On the. On the shelf. That you can just go grab. And take off. And do it whenever you want. Meaning. 20 plus points somewhere. And I'll use them someday. Someday. You may not be able to do that. And.

Some of these. Diagnosis. Are. Very short timelines. That have changed their life. Dramatically. And. Or. You know. They're hoping to have this. This fall to even hunt. So who knows. It's. It's sobering. So. To the extent possible. You know. Make good use of your decisions. Every fall. Value your points. But. But use your points. Don't be afraid to go hunting. We've said that many times. Just. Don't blow them all in one year. To where you can't do justice. But. If you're getting down to the wire. Which. We're getting to that. That point of the year. This year. With. States like Wyoming. States like Idaho. States like Arizona. We're talking about. And you don't have much. If anything. Put your chips on the table. And burn your points. And go. Go get a hunt under your belt. Do something. So with that. Yeah. Chris. You've been on a lot of hunts with us. And you've watched us eat tags.

And you know. Every time we get done. Some of these are still great hunts. Just because you didn't. Notch the tag. Doesn't mean you didn't learn something. Doesn't mean you didn't make great friendships. You're out there experiencing some crazy awesome stuff. Yeah. I mean. This year we went on an elk hunt. And. It was a great experience. We didn't. Didn't kill in a bull. But. We had a great time. And. Saw a lot of cool things. We saw some great mule deer. We saw coos deer. We saw bears. And just. A big 10 mile horse ride in and out. And it was a. Just a fun. Experience. And. Man. Those are. Those are. Things that you'll always remember. Even. Even if we didn't kill. I'm always going to remember that trip. I'm going to remember getting off that horse. Yeah. Very interesting. It's the first. John. Come on. First time we've ever heard. The word. Some great mule deer out of that hunt.

Because that's. That's a Chris P. And Jason secret. Until now. But. Thanks Chris. For sharing your experience. Appreciate it. Appreciate you opening up. It was like. Ah. Great mule deer. And. And. You got to ride somewhere to an undisclosed location. Over 10 miles on a horse. And then you have to hike another mile or two in. So. Good luck. But still. It's exciting to hear about. If it makes you feel better. And I'm a proponent of burning tags. I didn't even apply there. If it makes you feel any better. Having said that. It was. It was quite a learning experience. So. Anyway. John. You've been pretty good at. Lining up some hunts. You've got one. Maybe going to draw Utah elk this year. You're a little nervous. Huh? Yeah. You guys are teasing them about. You know. Trying not to draw too many tags. I'm getting there. Yeah. But. I like. But. I think it's. You go so many years.

Without drawing a random tag. And. Man. I just can't believe it. It's still not even sinking in. I got an elk tag that I wasn't expecting. And now I might have two elk tags. Yeah. Because you. Depending on. On the other one. Yeah. That you might get. Well. I got. You guys came to me with some advice. And said burn your points. I like these guys. I like blindly follow. And you did well. Right? Yeah. Well. We'll see in Utah if I draw an elk too. Oh. You're talking about. Yeah. I'm looking back at like. No. He's talking to Utah. Utah. Might draw when he's already got a New Mexico. And. I don't like being on the hook for friends and family. But. It'll be a good hunt. It'll be good. Yeah. I'm super excited. But. I think I've got. Good tags. Every month. This fall. Well. And you got. So we'll see how things. Dedicated already. So you got. Three hunts on that. Yeah. And. A couple elk.

Without even trying. You know. Mm-hmm. Really. So. Yeah. And. And luckily I didn't draw. I thought I was going to draw an Arizona elk. And I didn't. And now I'm. Oh. Really. Luckily I didn't. But. But that. That comes along. I mean. You apply for 20 years. And you just think. Every year. I'm just. No tags. No tags. And then. You know. A year like this comes along. And. And it seems like. You know. Maybe I'm drawing more than my fair share. But. Jeez. I'm tired of just not drawing a tag. Yeah. So. It's. It's good. I just also wanted to. Just a shout out to some of those guys. That. That are having rough times. You know. Medically. Some of these guys that Jason's talking about. We've known them for 20 years. And. And. Jason's telling me about it. And I'm getting choked up. Just. Because. You build a relationship with clients. You know. Over the years. You know. Deer. Deer. And.

Hunts that they've been on. That have been successful. And enjoyed that. And. And then you meet them a couple times. Maybe at a show. Or something like that. And. And. Oh. It. It just. Hits me hard. On some of these guys. And. So. I. I just like to. Shout out to our members. And. And. Just some of the relationships we build over the years. They do mean a lot. More than you might know. Yeah. Amen. And. Yeah. Don't. Whenever it's your time to check out. Try not to check out. With. Bank of points. Because they're not worth anything. I know. That's the one thing we were talking about. We've had a lot of members mention. You know. It'd be nice if these states would allow you to gift your points one time at the end of your life. Or your application life. Your hunting life. Whatever state of. Life you're in. To a relative. And. You know. It's not. Not just.

Share a tag in states that allow it with your youth. A grandson. Or. Or son. Or whatever. If they meet the age requirements. But actually. Gift them to a 40 year old son. Or something like that. And so. Anyway. I can. I can see the merit. You know. There's plenty. Plenty of guys out there with points that are. They just go unutilized. And so. And not that. Every point in the world has to be utilized. I get it. It's a random draw system. Even. You know. In large part. Across the west. Even if we were working with points. But. But there is a little of that sentiment out there. And we're hearing it more and more. So. So any of the states that are out there listening. Might consider that. You know. It's definitely becoming. Kind of a. Crazy time. When you're dealing with 31 points for sheep in Arizona. And other places. Or Nevada. What was the buffalo? 50 something. What's that?

50 something in Arizona. Yeah. 51. 50 something points. Oh my. As max. It's. It's hard to even say that out loud. Sheep's 31. I mean. That's hard. That's the only other. 30 plus. We got to several other states. Washington. I guess. Utah. Oregon. Some of those. That are getting into that mid and upper 20s. On some species. It's. You know. I don't know. We don't have an exit plan for some of those either. I don't really. No. I think there is one. All right guys. Anything else you want to add? Any personal insights? We're going to stick with Kevin Call's advice. I think. He's going to plead the fifth. Or whatever they call that. Something like that. We've had quite a few draw results. We had some Wyoming sheep, goat, moose, you know results come out. And some Colorado sheep and goat results come out. So we'd love to hear from you guys. If you're out there and you end up with a tag.

Please call us. We'd love to hear about it. Possibly help you. Yep. If you see charges on your Utah card in the next week or two. That's. That's on the front burner. As well as Montana moose, sheep, goat, bison. And then of course we move on to Nevada. And Idaho moose, sheep and goat here later in May. So anyway. Well and maybe to end on a. On a positive note. And we might get you down talking about 30 points for this and 50 points for that. We just had some clients draw with zero points. Tags that they had no business drawing. Devin. I think you talked to one. One of our clients. Tell us about that. Well I was checking some results you know. Went three for four and three of the people were in the same immediate family. Yeah. Brothers. Brothers. Brothers hunting. Two brothers drew mountain goat in Wyoming. Randomly. The same unit. Amazing. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. You know.

It's. It's. So that's going to be. It's like. Bronson when you text me. It's like. Your name. You need to put your name in all the hats you can. Things happen. Things happen to people that apply. That's right. Things. Good things happen. And. You could. Take that same wisdom and apply it to California. Which we talked about earlier. Maybe we didn't have as high of a. Must apply for attitude about it. But hey. You know. If you got a little extra cash. Your name's in the hat somewhere. Much like some of the state raffles. Or our membership drive. Or something like that. Good things can happen. If you have a name in the hat. Speaking of membership drive. We do have our summer membership drive going on right now. You can. Join. As a new member. You'll be able to get a ticket in there. To a hunt of your choice. As well as. If you have a guy that refers you. Put his name in as well.

Then you can also purchase tickets. For this particular membership drive. Very short drive. Deadline would be June 19th. We're going to try to have that drawing on the 20th. See how that goes. But we're going to try like heck. So anyway. Some great hunts. They're outlined in our publication. If you want to know what you're joining. It's an epic outdoors publication. Consulting services. Anything to do with Western Big Game. We cover it in the publication. December through June. Monthly. Bi-monthly. The remainder part of the year. Nine issues a year. And then you can call in. And get personal insights and whatnot. There's also very active hunt planner on our website. Covers drawing odds. Particulars about the states. Ride ups. All kinds of things. Mapping. Very aggressive. Available to members only. So you can go learn about us on epicupdoors.com.

But then members have a whole new setup within there. Once you log in. A hundred bucks a year. That's what we're at. And don't forget to call us with your tags. And your good news. Whether you're going to do it self-guided. Or whether you're going to go guided. We can help you. Help you recommend an outfitter we know well. Devin. Wyatt. Jason. I. Any of us. Chris. John. Anybody can help you with that. If you also want to do it on your own. And that's kind of your intention. We have a member. An epic member experience database. That we can send you a list of other members. That have had your same tag in the past. And let you email or call. Visit with them about the planning phase. Where and how. And all that. About the unit you're drawing. That's all included in your service as well. So let us know. When you start getting your dry results out. May is a huge month for us. So give us a call.

And let us know what we've drawn. Hey guys. Talk to me. So.