EP 166: Living for Giant Mule Deer with Greg Krogh

He steps out broadside, turns his head, looks right at it, starts lip-curling. Got to get the right deer with the right genetics at the right perfect age. It's easier said than done. It's a grind. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, Chris Peterson at the keyboard. Always makes me feel good when Chris is there, Bronson. Colorado draw results are out. People are just slammed with emails at this particular moment. Although we do have a scheduled podcast with a great guest and friend of ours and an awesome hunter and outfitter. So we can't stop. We've got to move on. And even though the results are hitting inboxes and people are looking up and seeing the word awarded or whatever in Colorado, deer results, that's kind of exciting. And, you know, there's been a few units that were tough to draw. And there's a few units of Bronson that were easier to draw. Easier to draw. That's right. And the bigger thing is Jason still's on the edge of his seat waiting for the antelope results to come out. Come on.

Because that is next. Let's call, Greg. This is, all right. That's right. Let's get on to a different subject. Vernon, how many points? Is it 16, 18, 20? I don't know. 18. The bigger question is... I'm going to kill the first 70 inch that walks in front of me. What? If it's got prongs, it's down. What prompted you to build that many points? That's the real question. Well, it just happened. And then one year, there was years that I didn't even continue with that. And then you jumped back on and then you got attacked. And then I jumped back on because I'm like, well... And now you can command the draw anywhere. Well, not any... Pretty much. Yeah, yeah. Not anywhere, but anywhere that's got giants. How about that? No, that's not true. Anywhere that's got two points. Giants and antelope and Colorado are all never used in the same sentence. It's exciting.

By the end of the week, it'll finish that. We'll have an Idaho deadline on the 5th for deer, elk, and antelope. We're about done with the states. Arizona first of next week. So it's coming to a close here. You were even kind of... Now that there's been a few results out, you were kind of half deciding what you're going to do in Idaho. Some of these late states are nice. Yeah, for my kids. I did sheep, so I'm sitting this one out like you, I think. But we're playing kids in Idaho. But I just want to know Colorado results before you move down the road and apply for Idaho, so it's good to know. You can have too many tags, and it appears I do. Yeah. Lots of junk. Lots of junk that if you come out of Hero, why, that's great, but then, you know, you never tell anybody that you ate eight tags to get to the one good one. Well, they all remember the one good one.

Now you're so lucky, and what about the six you ate? Yeah. That was last year. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Last year was last year. That's in the history books and never to be opened again. Before we get started, we want to thank Under Armour for sponsoring this podcast. Appreciate them. We've been working on some projects with Under Armour. And, of course, there are a few discount codes still out there. Go on to our website. Type in EPICUATEAM. Go on there. Get a 40% off card. Buy some stuff. While they last. Yep. No brainer. Pretty, pretty great way to get some great gear. Way discount. At a way discounted rate. Yep. In this COVID environment. Although nobody's talking about COVID. We're all talking about other things and lots of riding and crazy things that are going on. But, anyway, we're actually talking about hunting. Let's talk about hunting.

That gets our mind off of lots of crazy things out there in the world. Let's give old Greg Krog a call. He's a great outfitter there in Arizona as well as Nevada. And crushing giants for himself as well. Killed an absolute monster deer in Arizona. We expect nothing less from a guy like Greg. He's been there, done that. You know, his reputation precedes him. He's an incredible mule deer hunter and does a great job in about everything he does. And so, anyway, we have a hunt that we're giving away with Greg where we purchase a landowner tag for Nevada. Unit 231. The winner gets to choose a season. Choose your season. And we're going to talk with him about that. Maybe expectations to the lucky winner that will be drawn on June 20th. And, yeah, give Greg a call. Let's see if he's ready to talk deer. He usually talks pretty fast when you start talking deer. He does. He gets wound up.

But, you know, if I know Greg, he's out horsing around literally this time trying to get ready. Because once scouting season hits, he basically leaves the house. Man June about the only lighter months, if you want to call him that. Yeah, that's right. All right. Let's give him a holler. See if we can glean any info and use it to our advantage. How about that?

Hey, Jason. How you doing? Good. How you doing, man? All right. Just hanging out. Enjoying the weather. Is it hot down there? You know, it was hot last week. But, you know, where I am, I'm at 5,000 feet. So it's not too bad. That's probably fairly. I don't know. What are you guys at right now, temperature-wise? Yeah, mid-80s. We cooled down a little bit, too. But it's been brushing up to 90. Way warmer than it should be for end of May. But it's looking like it's back to reality. We're like 70s and 80s all the rest of this. It's been nice. It's been nice here. Even a little bit of cloud cover here and there. Yeah, that's what it's been like here the last couple days. Like almost monsoony. Like, I guess it rained. And it didn't rain on me, but it rained on other parts of the state. So that was great. Kind of weird. Doesn't happen in June very often. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty awesome.

We're getting excited. Of course, we were talking right before we called you that you're probably out horsing around and doing what you do this time of year, getting amped up, knowing that you're going to leave the house here in about a month, month and a half. You pretty well leave for the fall. I was craving it. So I got up at 530 this morning and saddled and got everything ready. And then the guys were supposed to show up overslept. Really? I got a text about 30 minutes ago. I figured it out by now. You know, they're not even returning my text about oversleeping. What are you guys sleeping? And then they text me back and said, oh, man, we went out and overslept. Jeez. What do you? So I just got done unsaddling and turning everything back out. What do you do this time of year, Greg, for the world that doesn't know this year or part of your life? What do you do? What do you do?

What were you going to do? This year I've been doing a ton of shooting. You know, I just I've been I got some different rifles and some of those. And I've just been out shooting and reloading and trying to develop loads on different guns and trying to learn about all that stuff. It's it's unbelievable. The more you think you know about it, the less you know, you know, the more overwhelming it gets. So I'm I'm pretty obsessed with shooting. I think I literally have shot out just in the last, I think, month and a half, two months. I've shot out one barrel and almost another one. It's been crazy. That's the way you do things, Greg. You can't you can't you're not you have foot. It's either all or none. And nobody's going to keep up with Greg. Like I'm telling you, nobody can keep up. If you got something on your mind and shooting is the deal, that's what we're doing for the next two months.

Daylight till dark, maybe even. I don't know. Oh, I've been getting up in the dark. Shooting at night with flashlights. It's like there you go. Come on. Practicing your night hunting skills for when you go to Texas or what are we doing? Oh, yeah, we went ironic. I just got back from Texas. I went over there. And the one time we didn't do it, I ended up I flew over there and I tried to when I got there, I told my buddy Wes, I'm like, man, I need to sight this rifle in, you know, on the ranch. And I said, have you got like a light? We'll just set up a light here. And just let me check the zero at 100. And he says, man, you showed up here without sighting your gun. And I said, man, I shot like 500 rounds through it the last two weeks. I said, I decided when I left, I just want to make sure it didn't get knocked off.

And so he we kept arguing about it for two hours while we were out like goofing around, you know, and he wanted to show me the ranch. And then we're out there looking at the ranch, spotlight, deer, just goofing around. And I said, we need to go back to the ranch and let me shoot the rifle. And he kept saying, oh, we'll do it in the morning when we get up early. And I thought, I know this is going to go. And then the next morning, we didn't get to shoot it. Then I end up missing a hog. And I've been hearing about it for three weeks now, you know. That's right. And then after we got done, I think we were benched in just a chip shot and completely benched in with sandbags. And I missed this pig shoot right in front of his face. And then we go over and set it up at 100 yards. And turns out at 700 yards like the shot, it was 24, 26 inches to the left and nine inches high. How does that happen?

How does that happen? It's unbelievable, you know, on a flight. And I'm telling you, I shot that gun 500. I mean, I'm not exaggerating. I know how many times I shot it because how much all the powder and ammo I went through in the last, you know, week shooting it. And it was so dialed in. And then I get there and it's off by that. I mean, I shot two in the same hole at 100 yards. It was like three and a quarter left and an inch and a half high or something. Two in the same hole. And then when you do that out at 750, that ends up being, I mean, magnifies it. You can't believe, you know. Yeah. And then my buddy Les said, oh, God, I hope we don't see another pig the rest of the week so I can have this over you. And sure enough, we never saw another hog the rest of the week. So he's still talking about it. Oh, yeah. He sends video out to his buddies.

And it's on a podcast that Greg Kroke was sandbagged in. Locked in, I think, was the word. Locked in. Cemented in.

The worst part was it's on film. And the minute I shot, it was such, I just, I even said, oh, I smoked him.

I just, you know, it was a recoil. I didn't see. I just know I smoked him. And then I get up and look at the video. And he's just, he's laughing so hard. He can't even stand up. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, so I've been hearing about that from everybody for the last week. So since it's on the top of your mind, just give us a quick tip. Greg Kroke's long-range tip. Like, what do people overlook? What have you learned? What may be a bad habit that you had that you had to overcome? Just give us something now that you're on tip. Check your zero when you get there. Okay. Okay, tip number one. All right. That's number one. Honestly, on shooting, I mean, I'm probably not the right guy to have. There's some people that I've been learning from that know a lot more than me. But my biggest tip would probably be that I see, like, when people come and shoot with me that say they shoot long-range,

and then I watch them shoot as they just, one, they don't pay enough attention probably to their bubble. And the other thing is parallax, you know, adjusting their parallax correctly. And, you know, that's such a huge difference at long, long range, you know, that you got it correct. So how are you adjusting your parallax? Basically, it feels like a focus. Right. It feels like, for example, on my gun, I have different types of scopes. I've got Leupolds, and I've got, you know, Knight Forces and another one. And when I'm, it's funny, a couple years ago, I used to just focus it, you know. And when it was focused, I'm thinking it's there. But if you get in the gun, and if it's your gun and you have the same cheek weld every time, it doesn't, it's not as critical. But, like, you know, it basically, like, for me, for me to get in the gun when it's in there and I'm looking in the scope,

when I move my head anywhere in the scope, those crosshairs should stay exactly on the bullseye, you know, no matter where my cheek is in the gun. Whereas if I just focus, that's not the case. I can get it focused, and I can move my head a little bit up or a little bit down, and that'll change. The crosshairs will move, and then I've got to re-bring them down, which is going to really open up your groups. And whereas on mine, it's actually not quite exactly out of focus. You know what I mean? It's not, I mean, it's still focused, but it's not just getting it focused like people think. It might be off. It might be off slightly is what keeps that crosshair centered. Yeah, and then once you get it just right, the crosshairs should, that should be the most important thing, that your crosshairs aren't moving, not just, you know.

And you'll notice it, like, you know, I've gone out and forgot to do it, and it's, you know, these scopes are so clear. I've forgotten to do it before at 100 yards and been zeroing, and like, man, why do my groups open up? Then I realize I'm sitting there, you know, not having a consistent cheek weld, and that's why my groups are opening up. And then when you adjust the parallax, it doesn't really make a difference. There's a term I don't use every day is the cheek weld. Weld your cheek to your gun. Croke's cheek weld. We got it. That's the tip of the day. Coined on the podcast. That's the tip of the day. I'm just coining things that people I shoot with tell me, so I don't know if it's right or not. Well, what about, we talked about, other than shooting, which it sounds like you burned a lot of powder in the last couple of months. 500 rounds, that wears out.

Some people think the barrel's wore out. Croke's just getting warmed up. That's right. No, it wears it out, especially when you don't take time like I don't. You don't, you know, you don't let the barrels cool as much, or you go and shoot prairie dogs. I think when they say you get 800, I think I probably get 500 to 600, you know, on those types of guns. Yeah. Gotcha. So they pretty much, I think I have a new 300 PRC, and I haven't even had it a month, I don't think, or a little, maybe five weeks, and I've already got 530 rounds. So you're going to re-barrel that thing before the first season hits. Yeah, as soon as I get everything figured out the way I love it, get a perfect load, then I'll have to re-barrel it. Then break it in a new gun. It's kind of been my evil.

Nick Owens over at Owens Armour, he built these guns, and he laughs, he's like, I got you a 6.5 PRC so you wouldn't have to do this. Go shoot that thing. And I'm like, that's not what I'm going to be hunting with. I want to shoot the one I'm hunting with. What about the 300 PRC? I have never shot a 300 PRC, but why choose that over a 300 Ultramag or whatever, a 30 Nozzler? Give me just a quick down and dirty about it. The reason I did it was just everybody says it's just super forgiving and not really temperamental, you know, like a lot of the, you know, like a 28 Nozzler or those type of guns. They just seem to be really temperamental. And the 300 PRC, I chose it because just looking at different ballistics, I picked it. I'm not shooting, you know, the gun was really designed for like the .212s and the .200 grains. I'm pretty recoil sensitive. I don't like a ton of recoil.

So I've been shooting a .178 out of it. And it's funny when you take the .178, it calls for a BC of .552, which is really low for, you know, for what's considered high BC bullets. And the .212 has a BC of like almost 700. And everybody says, well, you're giving up all that. But what they don't realize is, is the .212, and I talked to Hornady about this on the phone a couple weeks ago. The .212, they make factory ammo for that. So they've tested it and they know the correct BC for that speed because that's what they're selling the ammo at. So when it says it's 690 or 700 or whatever it is, it's correct. Whereas on the .178 ELDX. It's still being tested and trued and tried. Well, they're shooting it out of 300s. I mean, 30-odd sixes and .308s where the speeds are way lower, which affects your BC.

So it's .552, but I think, and don't quote me, it's somewhere for around 2,500, 2,600 feet per second. Well, I'm shooting it at 3,300 feet per second. So the BC on mine, when I shoot it at that speed, is actually 600 and it's like 616. Pretty impressive. Now when you're at 616 with that super high speeds, it actually has the exact, within an inch at 1,000 yards of the wind drift of the .212 without all the recoil. So I really like it. And, you know, I don't, my buddy came up, he shoots the 312 last, I mean the 212 bullets. And he came up and shot with me last week with his .300 PRC. And he shot three rounds through mine after shooting his all morning. And he's like, man, you need to load me up some of those. He said, I'm done shooting the recoil. The difference is so unbelievable.

So are you using the Zeiss Victory, the range finding binocular, or are you using a, you know, a 6-hour, 2,400? Or what are you using to? I've used them all. Well, I've got the, right now I'm currently using that Zeiss range finder with the ballistic holdovers. And then I'm also trying the Leica. 3,200. The 3,200.com. I haven't done, I'm just now like literally setting up the Leica to see. I think the, I just want to see the difference in the glass between the two. I mean, you're really not using them for glassing. You're more, you know, but. But they're tens. Yeah. We got them both. If it was better, I'd switch. I just want to see if the ballistics are as good, you know. Well, you don't want to pack around two sets of tens, one for glassing and one for range finding. Right, exactly. And that 3,200 has an external laser.

And so they're saying, you know, a possibility that it's possibly a little bit clearer. But then it receives it back through the glass. Through the other side. Through the other side. And so I don't know. One eye's clear without a laser shooting through it. Yeah. The other one's got it receiving back in. That's what we're understanding. Anyway. But. Yeah. I'd like to hear your. I don't. I did think looking through them side by side, you know, it wasn't, it was hot. So it was kind of hard to do it on a day like that. But I felt like, I thought the, I mean, I thought the Leica was, I thought the Leica was just slightly, and it could be just tense. You know what I mean? Yeah. But I've been, I've been extremely happy with that Zeiss. It's been so accurate. And it's, you know, it's matched up with everything. And I always double check it.

And I've never had it be different than any of my other apps. It's always spot on. So I've been really impressed with it. It matches the six hour 2400 app, you know, the holdovers and everything. It's matching with the Zeiss Victory RF. Yep. Those are all the same. You know, it matches with the G7, you know, and it matches with just the calculators I use, you know. Well, you'd think math is math, you know. And so these, they should, they should all match. I did have a guy tell me it was slightly off for him, but for us, it's been, it's been spot on. In fact, we're going to go up and, and run through a shooting school up in northern Utah. May not run 500 rounds through the weekend. Probably not going to run 500 rounds, but, but anyway, but, but we are going to, you know, vigorously test them all. But the, the, the Zeiss is extremely popular, man. People, people love them.

The other, you know, the, quote, professional schools are using them heavily. And so anyway, we've, we've got them here and, and we're cranking on them. So it's just really nice to, to have, you know, with the monoculars, you got to pull out, look at it, find it again. And that grainy little four power screen, you know, and then you got to go back to the glass while they're shooting. It's just so much nicer to slap it on the tripod during the shooting where you're never taking your eyes off the animal and calling out the shots. It's so much easier, I think. Yeah. So much better. What else do you have time to do this time of year? This sounds like a full-time project job hobby, just shooting your guns. Do you, you referenced horses? We know that that's a hobby. What are you doing? What else are you doing this time of year?

Oh, just, you know, this year with this whole Corona thing, it's been, it's been fun. You know, the family's around and no one, you know, no one's out. Kids aren't in school. We've been going kayaking. And, you know, it's funny. We lived here forever. It seems like in six, seven miles away, there's one of the most beautiful lakes. And we've never, we never go down there. And we were down there and been kayaking. My wife went and bought four kayaks. And me and the girls have been doing that kind of stuff and doing a lot of hiking. And, and, uh, it's actually, I tell everybody, I kind of feel guilty saying it's going to sound bad. Say this. I feel guilty. It's like this, it's improved the quality of our life. You know, we say the same thing. We say the same thing. Oh, Jen and I have learned like mountain bike trails right here in our hometown. We never even knew existed.

BLM have spent crazy amounts of money on mountain bike trails. I never even understood it. Now I'm thinking those were, those were good expenditures. You know what I mean? Now you're, now you feel good about paying taxes every year. Yeah. I'm feeling better about it. Right. And then I'm going down, we went down and bought mountain bikes. And, and, uh, of course we had, you know, regular old chintzy ones, but I mean, went down and bought some mountain bikes. The dude's like, dude, with the Corona thing, these are rare. I've never had better business in all my life. And, you know, quantities are limited, which is what you're finding here. You are spending money on kayaks. You never thought you would have done it. People are spending some money. We have the Polaris dealer, the Honda dealer, Bronson. They can't keep stuff in. They can't keep them in. No. They can't.

People are buying stuff, spending time with their families more than ever in our life. Planting gardens. You got a big garden, Greg. Greg, if you ever got started on a garden, you'd be the type of guy that probably, well, the regular soil isn't good enough. Greg's going to go out. He's going to research it. He's going to call every person in the world. University of Arizona, Arizona State, NAU and Flagstaff, all the soil scientists. Which one is going to tell me what? At which temperature, which part of the year? Yeah. My research is usually bugging people and that drives them crazy. Like I said, Nick Owens at Owens Army is probably regretting the day that he ever got me in the long range because I bug him. So, I mean, it's the point now where I have to pace myself. And I look at his number. I almost text him. And I'm like, I can't. I've already texted him today a million times.

I'm going to wait until tomorrow and ask another question tomorrow. Well, I think that same personality comes out in your hunting and it's why you've been so successful. It's just a grind. A grind in the field. You're grinding scout. Grinding during the hunts and whatnot. Speaking of which, we're giving your hunt away, you know, with a 231 landowner tag. You know, I've been talking to guys that have been calling that have seen it and wanting to know about it. And, man, I'm excited to see who's going to get it and who's going to draw it. And it's, I'm thinking, I know we didn't get the May rains, but I think we had such a good, we had such good fall and then winter and then spring that I think it's going to be, I think it should be really good this year. What are you guys thinking over there? The browses, that browses response to that heart, that winter moisture, bitter brush and all that.

And it was unbelievable from, let's just say from late November through March. It was unbelievable. It was unbelievable. And the leaders on the bitter brush are unbelievable. It's crazy. I've, I've spent some time over there, you know, of course the, the, the cheatgrass and all that's burned up and they're, you know, in, in a lot, a lot of places. But overall it feels like, just like what you said, the, the deer brows is just off the charts. It's going to be grid second year in a row should be, should be good. And that's so critical. I don't, you know, I'll just have coming out of a good year in better shape is important. And then, and then having the winter, I just, I, I'm excited to get over there and figure another month. I'm, I'm already dying to get over and start looking. So all the hunts are booked. Now it's just time to go and find some deer. I'm looking forward to it.

Well, this speaking of this one hunt giveaway, what's it's down for our listeners. If you don't know about it, if you're a member of Epic Outdoors, uh, or you're not, or you have a friend that's not, um, if you sign them up or you sign up before June 19th, you can be entered into this fully outfitted hunt by Greg and his crew to 31, uh, the season of your choice. I believe it was seven days, Greg, that we agreed upon with you, archery, muzzle, or a rifle and, uh, allows versatility. If you're a bow hunter allows that versatility to go, go in August. If, uh, you're a rifle hunter, obviously got pretty much the month of October to, to go do that. Uh, one of the units, Greg, that you've, I don't know, one of your bread and butter units, we'll just call it that. You do several others, but you know what I mean? This is, you spend as much time here as maybe as a lot of the others.

Uh, part of it's, uh, just due to the fact you've done so well, why are you going to quit, quit a unit or move elsewhere when you've done so well in a unit over the years? So tell us maybe what people can expect if they were to hunt 231 with you. You know, 231 is probably the unit, you know, we, we've for sure killed the majority of our biggest bucks out of that unit over the years, you know, in the last 20 something years. They've all, that's been the best producing unit for us overall. Now, part of that's cause we do take, you know, we do more hunts in there than we do in some of the other ones. Um, but I just, it's a unit that's got a lot. You see lots of deer, uh, lots of mature bucks, the archery and the muzzleloader are phenomenal hunts. And, and then the rifle, it's still, you know, those bucks are still there.

They just get a little bit tougher to find cause it's not a true run hunt. They've moved the dates back now. So now it's been getting good, you know, in the end of that season. Um, me and Jason talked about it. Uh, I don't know if you remember Jason, but when they first moved it back through, it was three days. It used to be on what the 28th, right? Yeah, it was. And then it moved to the 31st and it just feels like it's, and we used to, the youth got a little bit of an advantage on us back then. Yeah. Initially, right. 25th. And then the youth would get a little bit longer and we were so jealous of the youth. Now we get to do that, you know? Yeah. For three extra days. So that last couple of days gets really good. And, and then, uh, I still like, I still like the earlier hunts the best, you know, um, just

cause you're getting the, you know, we killed some really good deer last year late that we didn't know about, you know, that that's, that's, what's going to happen then. Cause everything's moving, but you kind of got to get lucky there. I like the earlier ones where you can spend the time in the summer and have a buck found that, you know, at least, you know, you're hunting a big buck. You may not, may not get him, but you're going to be hunting a big buck that you know is there. You have more time to find a big buck. Those late ones, you're just kind of, you know, six, seven days. It goes by fast, you know, and you're just, you see a lot of deer and you just got to find the right one. And from what guys are telling me, Greg, we've had a few guys call you. And of course they're talking to us too. Um, but you're pretty well full. You're pretty well booked up for, for deer hunts this year.

Yeah. We had a really good draw this year and, and, um, I just, I'm, I'm, I'm just dying to get out there. Everybody is, all the guys are with, they've been calling me daily. They're ready to get over there and start scouting. And, and, uh, you know, I don't know if we're all just so stir crazy this time. It feels like it's even more so than normal. Right. I think it's Corona. We're all, everybody's dying to get going. Yep. You know, we're dying to get, get, get things cranked. Well, tell us a little bit. You killed an absolute monster Arizona buck. I'm hoping you write a story for us, uh, for the publication and, and whatnot, but just maybe let's dive into that sucker. What it's nice when, when, uh, the outfitter himself or, or some of your sub guides end up, you know, getting a tag for themselves and, and you and Jeff Rowe ended up with tags for yourself.

Of course, Jeff works for you, um, you know, across the board and the different hunts that you offer. But anyway, tell us how that came about. You got to hunt in your home state and you killed an absolute sick, disgusting monster. It was, it was, uh, I still can't believe it. I'm sitting here looking at him right now on the wall. He got him, Jeff Baird, uh, mounted him and got him back to me. And he looks incredible. And it was, the way it started was, you know, I had, I think I had, you know, I drew it 12 years ago or 10 years, whatever, about 12 years ago, I guess in 08. Was that in the same, when did, when Losher drew? I can't remember. He drew it the year before me when it was really bad. If you remember. Okay. Okay. Drought year is when, then Dave drew it and then Pat drew it with me. Okay. That's right. That's right. Yep. Not with me. We hunted it. Same year.

We drew on separate applications. Yeah. You guys did in the same camp basically. Yeah. Yeah. No, we, we hunted together. Me and Pat did. And, uh, the whole time. And, uh, you know, Pat found my buck and I think I found his buck, you know, we hunted the whole hunt together and Dave was up there and some other friends. And that was, I think that was pretty sure it was 08. And, uh, so I had been building points and, uh, I, I, you know, I, I put in for that. That's the only thing I put in for. And then this year I went over and I was, it was the day the draw results came out. I didn't even know they were coming out or when credit card statements, were getting hit. I would happen to be, I just pulled up to Jason, uh, Campbell's house and we were getting ready to go up to his cabin and we were in a hurricane Utah and we were just walked in

and he was on the phone and I was waiting for him to get up the phone. And, uh, I got a phone call from a good friend of mine, Jim Cass. And, uh, Jim's like, Hey, would you mind calling Clay Bundy for me? And I drew the strip tag and he said, would you call him and see if he'll guide me personally? And I said, yeah, let me, let me hang up and call him. So I hung up, called Clay and Clay said, yeah, have him call. He'd be the first person. So he called him up and then, and then, uh, while they were talking, I thought, you know, I should check my results and see, you know, I hadn't looked yet and I pulled it up and, you know, I had like a 1% chance of drawing it. I pulled it up and saw it. I mean, I could, I remember dropping my phone. It bounced off the ground. I knew I'd seen what it said, but I was like, there's no way it says pending, you know? And that was the only thing I put in for.

So I grabbed it, picked up the phone. I'm shaking. I got, I went to the portal to make sure I didn't mess up, put him for a different unit, you know, and showed my only unit was that unit on the portals. And I knew I was getting charged and my kids thought there was something wrong. They thought I got a phone call from a family member that was hurt or something the way I was acting. And then I grabbed the phone. I called back Clay and he's like, I can't believe this. Greg, you just told me to promise your buddy that I would take him personally. I can't not go with him now. So yeah. So you're on your own. And me and Clay have been talking forever when I draw, you know, and I was going to go up there and we were going to go out and don't Clay for over 20 years, you know? And I'm like, oh, you guys, let me call him Jim real quick. Yeah. We're kicking him off. We're going to kick him off.

No, and I called him Jim and I was like, Jim, I said, I said, you're not going to believe this, but I drew also. And he's like, oh man. And you have to know Jim. He's like the nicest guy you'll ever meet in your life. And he's like, well, I'll just go with one of other guys. And I'm like, no, I'm not going to do that to you. I said, I just want to see if you'd have a problem if, you know, we just did it together, you know, and we'll have Clay and both of us, you know, and, and Clay can hunt with you. I said, Clay will hunt with you. And then when he gets done, he can come and help us. And, and then Clay will give us, you know, all, you know, help us out with all the scouting and everything else. And we'll do it like a two on one, you know? And he's like, oh, that would even be better. That'd be great. So I called back Clay and plays, you know, and, and told him, we'd see if you do it as

a two on one. And, and, uh, he was all for it. And, uh, so that's how we, that's how it started. And, and, uh, I honestly, I tried not to talk about it before the hunt. I tried not to call him. I did not want to know. I wouldn't be able to sleep. And he's calling me every now and then telling me how big the bucks are this year. And I'm like, God, don't send me any, he never sent me a picture or anything. And I'm like, I don't want to see him. Send that to a type A guy about four months ahead of time. I don't know. I don't know if that was. He made the right call. I was like, just don't send me the pictures because I won't be able to sleep. But of course he's, he's showing them to other people I know. And they're telling me how big the bucks are. And I'm like, I don't want to know about it. It'll make you go by too slow.

I just, I, and I had, you know, I was under contract because you know what Nevada does. They have those, they have contracts there, you know, to do it. So you have to specify on the contract who the guy is. Who's it going to be? Yeah. Your name was on paper. Like 30 something days straight. I think 37 days straight leading up to the opening day of the strip. I'm like, I'm not going to get there Clay until middle of the night, the night before the opener. I said, unless somebody gets done early, that's when it's going to be. And, and, uh, so I finally, honestly, when I got there, I ended up getting there like two day, a day and a half, two days early because we got done in Nevada early. And, and that was the first time he started, you know, we started looking at stuff and he, me and Clay went around and he showed me some different bucks that, you know,

that they were hunting and where they were at and how to hunt them and where he thought. And there was a buck we were going to hunt that had showed up that nobody else. There was like one camera on the water other than theirs. And, um, and there was a big buck on it. And it was a buck that I told him, I said, man, that's, this would be perfect. It's out of the way. I'll just come down here. And I had a really good friend, Drummond Lindsey come up to help me. And then Jeff Rowe was coming to help. And he, I think he was going to miss opening morning, but then he, cause he was working for me in Nevada and he was going to come help. And then the plan was we were going to go hunt that buck. And, uh, and then as soon as Clay got done, he was going to come down to there and we were all going to hunt that buck. But, and then something changed the day before and Clay's showing me other bucks.

And, and I thought, you know, gosh, we got to at least throw our hat in the ring for this other buck, you know, first day since we figured the other one was more out of the way and no one knew about him and I had no idea what the strip was going to be like. You know, it was totally different when I was there 12 years ago with the, you know, back then I hardly even saw a camera. And this time there was, I can't even, I never seen anything like it. Opening morning, I was up on a ridge glassing and there was people everywhere at trucks everywhere. And I actually watched that buck get shot. Um, I couldn't see the buck. I could see everybody shooting at him, you know, this is a different buck that you decided to go after. Cause he was so big. Let's go take a shot at this buck. Yeah. And I just thought, we'll just go try. It's opening morning.

And Clay was down in there and with my buddy Jim, and then I was up on the rim and I had my rifle on the rim, you know, where you could glass from, which is a better glass. I'm going to bring my rifle. And if, if this deer gets pushed this way, I can shoot from up here on the rim. And, you know, and then I got up there in the dark and there's just all, everybody spotted was up there with me and they're all looking at me like, why does this guy have a rifle up here? You know, he's not even in the game. You know, so I'd sit up there watching all this and then we watched someone else shot the buck, you know, and then we went down and, and Blake Chapman was with me also helping and, uh, glass. And so Blake was up there in the room with me and we drove around and we met, see, we met Clay and them down at the bottom and we were eating lunch and I'll ever forget it.

Clay was sitting there eating a baked potato. So like raw, I mean, just no salt and pepper, butter, nothing. Just, uh, I didn't see anything. Maybe it was, you know, he's probably gonna make you get, I mean, it was, I just remember it was like wrapped in something. I know, I'm pretty sure it was cooked, you know, it's kind of smart because it's got a hard skin, throw it in your pack, maybe throw it or tinfoil around it or whatever. And it's like loaded with carbs. Yeah. Yeah. And so he's sitting there eating this thing and it's, you know, midday now, I don't know, maybe 10 30 in the morning, 11. And, uh, I was like, man, Clay, we're going to, let's run down there and go hunt that buck down South. Now that that buck's gone. And, and, uh, and I'm not even quite sure why we're at where we're at, you know, we're

kind of on the side of the road, you know, kind of off the main road on the little two tracker and we're sitting there and he's like, well, you know, that buck probably not going to come out until this, you know, until this evening, you know, where it's at, you know, if you see him at all, it's going to be the last, you know, 20 minutes. He said, so why don't we stay up here? You know? And, and I'm, and I'm just dying to get down there and start hunting that buck, you know, and I'm with Drummond and, and, uh, you know, all along I swore, I'm not going to go on this hunt and be that guy that goes in there and like, you know, tries to tell them how to do it on their stuff, you know? Yeah. So it's like, you know, that's like, that's, I like it when people do it to me and it's like, I'm not going to do that. And, and I, and all of a sudden I find myself like doing that, you know, to play.

You can't hold, you can't hold back. Pretty soon. There's just some of it. I'd be the same way. I'd be the same way. Pretty soon. You're down in the sand. You've wiped it clean. You've drawn a map and you've got, everybody's got their position. You've got the team lined out and then you tell Craig, or you tell Clay, Hey Clay, this is where you're going to sit. And so I was like, Hey Clay, what do you think about me? I'm going to climb up on that mountain, you know, and he's trying to like, you know, he's like, well, I, you know, that's a, that's an option, you know, rather than just say that's an option, but I've done it 14 times before. Craig just trust me. That's what he wants to say. Yeah. Yeah. And he was like, well, you know, I don't know, man, you got a lot more energy to me. You want to go up there? And I'm thinking, well, let me grab another big potato.

I don't understand about it. He understands there's going to be all kinds of people in there later. Like, I'm just looking around like, yeah, there's nobody in here. I'll get up on there. And if we find the buck, I'll, you know, I'll bet him and I'll come down. And that's what's going on in my head. Cause I'm thinking it's going to be like Nevada where you don't really see people, you know? And, and so I thought this would be great. And he's like, well, I think you're better off down here. And it, you know, being down here closer at this, and he's trying to be politically correct and, you know, not, not, not, uh, so I'm sitting there looking at it. And then I, I walk over to the car and me and drum it over there. And I told Clay about this. It'd be a drum it later. We and Clay were laughing about it. I told him, John, I'm like, man, man, he needs to turn this loose and let us get up

on that hill, you know? And I don't want to be down here and this or that. And then, and then finally, I'm like, you know what? And so I, I get out of the car, I walk up to Clay and I'm like, I said, look, Clay, I'm already doing it. I said, I wasn't going to do this. I said, you killed giant bucks down here. If you tell me to sit in a tree stand in that juniper for the rest of the week, that's what I'm going to do. And he starts laughing. He's like, no, no, I don't want to do that. I just think, you know, if maybe you guys are down here in these little bumps and me and Jim will go over here and, and we're going to look and we're actually hunting the buck that I actually end up killing, you know, at that point. And I had seen a trail camera picture of it. And, and, and in my mind, I was kind of thinking, I, I, there's no way I'm shooting this deer.

You know, I'm, I'm, you know, we're just, I'm kind of thinking, oh, we'll just, Jim will shoot this one and then we'll be done. And then me and Clay and everybody are going to go down to this other spot, which was quite a long ways away from there, hunt the other buck. And so we, we go down there and me and Drummond, or we climb up on this little tiny hill and you can see, you know, I don't know, thousand, 1500 yards or something. And we're down there and, and, uh, and neither one of us are talking about it, but we're both looking at this big mountain thing, man, we need to be on that hill, you know? And, uh, I had no idea how many people were going to be around, you know? And so what Clay was, the reason Clay has worked out because he knows what it's going to be like, and you need to be, you need to be closer to the game. You need to be closer to the game.

Everybody's going to be up there. You need, and if you're closer to the game, you're going to kill it. That's what he said. Right. And it's like, and, and, and so we get down there and be a, be a drummond or sit on this little hill. We call Clay on the radio and, and they're, they're a couple of miles away or maybe a mile away on another knob. And, and, uh, there was, uh, uh, and some of Clay's other guys were hunting, maybe I would say three miles from there, hunting another big buck, um, about three miles from there. And, and, uh, so we're sitting on this hill glass and in about an hour before dark, I'm going stir crazy. Cause I'm just not wired to sit and look at a small spot. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, I got, and there's a little hill right in front of me. And I'm thinking, man, if I could just get on that little hill, I could see behind it.

You know, it's why I call up Clay and I'm like, Hey Clay, what do you think about if, uh, we split up and go, he's like, Oh yeah. Yeah. I just figured you guys want to be together, you know? And I'm like, Oh no, I don't, I'm tired of Joe. And I want to go over there, you know? And he's just insulted me and making fun of me for the last hour. So I said, we're going to split. And we're talking 500 yards away. Not, not like a long ways away. And I, so I go off and that was where the first time I left my rifle. So I walk off the hill, go to the other hill, get halfway over there and realize I don't have my rifle with me. So I walk all the way back. Drummond sees me walk up on the hill and he's looking at me like, what are you doing? And I said, Oh, nothing. Give me my rifle. I reach over, pick up my rifle. I can hear him behind me just dying, laughing that I'd left my rifle on the hill.

Walk back, go up the other hill. By the time I get up there, it's about, I would say 45 minutes before dark, roughly, you know, maybe 45 minutes to an hour before dark. And as soon as I come up on top of the knob, a good buddy of mine, Bob Dykeman is sitting there and he's got a client with him. And I thought, Oh my gosh, I can't believe this. You know, I just walked right up on top of him. And so I walked up, I'm like, look, I didn't know you guys were here. Sorry. You know, I said, uh, but it's, I said, I don't have time to get back out of here and go to another spot at this point. You care if I just sit down and glass with you guys. And, you know, I said, I promise I'm not going to, you know, if you guys see something you want to get after, I'm not going to, you know, get in your way. And, and, uh, so we're sitting there, like I said, I know Bob really well. He's a really good guy.

And so we're sitting there talking and, and as we're glassing and we're looking out there and, and, uh, a giant, all of a sudden I hear Bob go giant. And we were watching these guys tracking the deer out in front of us and I knew who they were and I knew the guy wasn't going to be shooting a small deer on opening day. So I knew he was tracking a big deer. And as we're, I said, Bob, is he with you? And he's like, no, no. And I said, man, we're probably going to see somebody shoot a big buck. And then about, as I'm looking at Bob saying that, I look back in the glass and I see the guy like pointing with his finger, you know, like you see something up ahead. And I look over at Bob and I'm, I'm, I'm saying something out of my, like, I think we're about to see them shoot a big deer. And right about then Bob's eyes get giant, you know, and he just picks up his whole other

that he had like a pair of 30 Koas or something on a tripod. He just picked them up with one hand and just started running to the left and grabbed the guy, you know, and said, giant buck, you know? And then I put my head back in the glass and here's this giant buck running right at me at like 700 yards, you know? And I'm like, Oh my gosh, you know, it's my dream buck. And I'm thinking, I just sat down and told these guys that I'm not shooting anything, you know? This is about to get good. This story is good. You're putting on your leather gloves waiting for war. Here we go. Yeah. So this thing's just coming right to us and Bob just grabs them and they run down to some little rocks and get set up. Like, I don't know, maybe a hundred yards away to me off to my left, I guess. Maybe it was 150. I don't know.

But I see them run over there and they get set up and Bob goes like the perfect spot to set up and exactly where I would have thought it would be the spot to go to. And then the buck's coming right to them. And then I just kind of moved over to the right about 40 yards where there's a level spot. And in my mind, I'm thinking, well, maybe if they start shooting and they miss, then am I allowed to shoot? Yeah. When are you allowed to shoot? Are you playing cleanup? Are you playing cleanup? Yeah. So that's what I'm thinking about. And I'm like, but you know, most of Bob's camp, I know a bunch of guys in his camp, they're all friends of mine. And I'm like, this is never going to end well. I'm going to, you know, even if the guy shoots, you're going to be that guy. I'm going to be the bad guy. And it would be really, on my mind, I would be furious if somebody, you know what I mean?

Like if I was sitting in Nevada on a hill and someone walked up and sat down next to me and then shot the buck as I was bedshitted, you know? So I run to the right, set up and I'm looking at this buck and he turns and he comes down and he's like right in front of me, broadside between like two little Christmas trees on my angle. And I'm filming him. How far? And I'm like, you've got to do, what's that? How far? I was like 400 and something yards. So you could be shooting. Yeah, you could be shooting. But they're, but they're in a spot where they can see him too, you know? You're waiting to shoot? Yeah. Well, there's a, at their angle, I, if I could be going on, I don't know, I'll have to ask Bob again, but I mean, I think it was like, they, like his head was to the right of the one little bush and they could see like his tail and his head. So I thought, well, maybe they can't see him.

So I walked over there thinking maybe they didn't see him. And I walked over there and I'm like, I'm whispering to Bob and he's like, yeah, we're on. He's just got to step out and we're going to shoot him. I'm like, perfect. So then I remember, I'm thinking, I'm going to get to watch this giant buck. And this buck is giant, you know, and, uh, really wide. And it's got double matching scissor kickers on his right and big bladed point. I'm thinking I'm watching this thing. And I, I call up Drummond on the radio and, uh, and he's, Drummond can't see all this cause it's right below me. And the hill I'm on is blocking the view of, of, you know, from where Drummond's at. And I'm like Drummond, I am looking at one of the biggest bucks I've ever seen in my life. And he's like, well, can you get on him? I mean, I'm like, oh, he's right in front of me. And he's like, why are you shooting?

I said, well, I ran into Bob and them up here and they were here on him first and Bob saw him. And I said, I don't want to, you know, Drummond is just, so Drummond doesn't know I'm filming on a phone scope. And so there's audio and Drummond starts going, ah, forget about Bob, you know, you need to shoot that buck, you know. What about Bob? Yeah. So, which was funny. Cause those two just talked about a week ago when I was at a bachelor party, he grabbed the phone and was talking to Drummond. They were laughing about it at that point. That's the first time I think they've talked since this, but was this, was this, was this the Jeff Rowe show? Yeah. Okay. The legendary party we've heard about. It definitely fit the bill and, uh, it was an accurate shirt. So, so now we're sitting there and yeah, I mean, like 30 minutes has gone by and 30 just

thinks he's hidden, you know, and he's just looking over his shoulder and, you know, kind of behind him and where he got jumped and he's just kind of locked in there. And, and, uh, I'm sitting there watching it. And, uh, and then finally, you know, Drummond's getting more and more animated, like Drummond gets, you know, and, uh, he's freaking out. He's like, I'm not kidding you. If you let the sun go down on this deer, I'm going to, I'm going to get down. What's the deer? The deer just standing, kind of listening, like looking back at the trackers or what's he doing? He just ran for about three or 400 yards towards us. And then once he got in that one spot, he didn't. He's just chilling. He's waiting for the track. Are the trackers still coming? Are they still coming? No. And I don't even know where they're at, you know?

And because what happened was when the buck jumped up, they were, the hill just kind of sloped away from them where it's hard to see, you know? Yeah. And, uh, so I don't know where they're at at this point. And, uh, and I'm, I'm still expecting another gun to go off, someone to shoot, you know? And, and like I said, Bob's exactly, I, if I was in Bob's shoes, I wouldn't have taken a step because there was quite a bit of cover very close to this deer. And if they had tried to pick up and move to come over where I was, she not is then your moves and he's in the thick and you're done. And you got to reset a spot where they were just sure he was going to, I can't believe he didn't take a step out, you know? And then, but eventually he just, he didn't, he just stayed there. And then, uh, anyway, they came over and we're talking and, and I'm showing Bob the video

and Bob's like, Hey, airdrop that to me. I don't even think about all the audio that's on. And so I airdrop the video to Bob and then we go back to camp. We were listening to it with Drummond and, and, uh, so anyway, we talk and I said, look, you know, I said, you know, if we see the buck tomorrow, it got dark and you watched a deer broadside till dark and didn't shoot. Yeah. So he's done. It's now it's dark, dark. And they walk off the hill and I go off the hill and Drummond is just, I mean, it was hard to take, you know, like I'm, I'm driving back. Back to camp. I got him in my ear, you know, uh, Clay's going to meet us. Cause I didn't, I didn't, um, I was camped just a little bit away from Clay's place because I had a bunch of friends. I didn't want to intrude on their thing, you know, and it'd just be a burden. So we were camped right there outside.

And so Clay stops by and on his way back and Drummond's been screaming at me the whole time. Jeff is now, I think showed up at camp and I'm showing the video to Drummond. He's telling me what an idiot I am. Then me and Drummond are fighting and I'm like, look, man, nobody feels stupider than I do. You should have never said anything, you know, blah, blah, blah. But you're bouncing your name, your reputation, friendships. Well, and there's perceived, there's perceptions. Yeah. The big, you know, great croaks known for giants. You know, the way I look at it is, like I said, you know, Bob's the one that's seen him. Bob's the one that ran to the left with this guy. Bob was there before me. Everything about it was Bob's, you know what I mean? Bob and his guy, you know? And it was like, I don't want to shoot this thing. Yeah. Trust me, I want to shoot the thing. Don't get me wrong.

It was like, at one point, this is a true story. You can ask Bob about it. When they came over later, all of my shells were like 10 feet away over against a tree away from my gun. Because there was like three different times I'm like, all right, well, they can't see them. You know, at this point, it's fair game, right? You know, and I'm like, okay, I got to stop this. I'm going to end up. And I just pictured them shooting and the deer running at me and then me shooting them. And then I'm going to be, you know, feel horrible. So I literally unloaded my gun and put all my shells over like 10 feet away at another tree thinking at least that would give me 10 feet to regain my composure if I lost it. You know, like I'd have to think about it for 10 people. I went and got the shells. And so we'd ever shot the deer and we both wished each other luck that night in the dark. They left.

We go back to camp and Drummond's upset with me. Do you realize which deer this is from trail cam? Like, have you got him named? Or is this the deer that just showed up? I don't remember. This wasn't a deer that we were hunting. It was a deer that a different. Let's see.

I'm trying to think. But did you know about the deer? One of the other bunnies was hunting him. And they, I just hadn't seen a picture of it because it wasn't one of the ones I was hunting, you know? And so one of those that didn't look as good on, maybe didn't look as good on trail camera as he did in real life. No, this one looked giant, I guess, because I just hadn't heard it. They were hunting it. And like when, so when I showed the video to Clay and Clay was like, okay, that's the buck that the other guys are hunting right over there. We, you know, we need to kill this buck and, you know, we'll kill him in the morning and we're going to come back. And so the next morning we go in there and, you know, Jeff does it, you know, like I said, this was the part that was awkward. And at least it was with good friends like Bob, cause we know Bob and he's a great guy.

And Jeff's worried about, you know, offending Bob and Bob's telling me, tell Jeff, he's an idiot. You know, you can't not help just use their good friends, you know? And he's like, just tell Jeff to go help you. And yeah, he's like, just whoever gets him, gets him. And Bob was awesome about it. And he wasn't like trying to tell us to go up and Clay was awesome about it. And everybody, so we just went in the next morning. We put, we put Jeff on the big mountain behind us, you know, and, and then Clay was on a point over thinking if the buck went this way, we were right where we were the night before. If you went that way, then we thought we had it covered really good. And man, it gets light and we're open. That buck's going to be right in there somewhere. And, you know, it was kind of thicker off to the, to the West. And we were the furthest one to the West.

So we thought, man, we were in the best position here. He's going to, he's not going to go back the way he came. He's going to be right over here on the edge of the stick stuff. And we're glassing, glassing. And, you know, we didn't right off the bat, uh, back to the East drum and seen a buck that wasn't him. You know, we got a little excited about cause it was a mature buck and ended up not being him. And then, then I saw a couple of does to the, uh, kind of to the West of me. And I hadn't seen a doe since I'd been there, you know? Um, and so I saw, I can't remember. It was two or three does and they were off to the West of us and, um, not very far, like 1200 yards away from us. And, and it was kind of in the direction where we thought this buck was headed, you know, we thought, and, and, but we never saw a buck, you know?

And, and, uh, Jeff was on the does also from up on top and, uh, you know, looking at the does up above and then the does kind of fed towards us and they got out of sight. And, uh, cause there was a little ridge between us, but we, I mean, we're talking like they were in a hundred by a hundred yard area. We couldn't see, it wasn't like, you know, they had, they couldn't get out of there. So we knew right where they were. There was just a little bit of a full block in our view of them. And Jeff's checking in, telling us the does are up, you know, he's telling us that he's on the deer too. And, and, and then all of a sudden, um, I think it was first, like at one point Drummond said he saw a flash of horn behind a doe. And I looked over there and I didn't see any deer at all. Either one of us said, we looked for about 10 minutes, couldn't see any deer.

And then Drummond was like, how it could have been a two point. You know, I don't, I just thought I saw a flash and so we kept looking over there and we're not seeing anything. And then we're looking at, kept looking, looking. And then all of a sudden Jeff, you know, tells me that he's got the big buck and he's rutting those two does and the buck from the night before, you know, and keep in mind, Jeff wasn't there the night before. So he's just looked at some video, you know, in the middle of the night, you know, he's a good hand. He knows what he's looking at. Oh yeah. Yeah. And so he was like, and keep in mind the buck from the night before all of his extras were on his right. And then his left side was a big typical with one flyer that went out and they're shaped, you know, they're both mid thirties or the other ones wider in my opinion, but you know,

they're both like 35, 36 inch wide plus deer and they're both heavy and they both have extras on the right and one single flyer on the left. So they're very similar. And I had never really looked at the other buck much because it wasn't really something I, you know, the one I saw the night before I looked at a ton, you know, and I knew there was no doubt in my mind. I would shoot that deer. However, the other one, it wasn't something, the trail camera picture of the other one was very unimpressive, you know? And I didn't really think it was, I was thinking that was more like a deer that, you know, my buddy Jim said he wanted to shoot something over one 90 and we knew it was that, you know, and I'm thinking it was more like, I was thinking that was a deer Jim would want to shoot, you know? And so when we get set, we, we take off and go over there and do this big loop.

And then we, we, we go up and keep in mind, I've already left my rifle one time on this trip on a glassy knob. So we, I mean, it's a mad dash because we're thinking someone else is going to see them. There's spotters near Jeff, there's spotters on the hill with us. And so we run around and I'm a, I'm a couple hundred yards away from our truck. Maybe not that far, 150 yards from our truck. And I'm heading up there and Drummond's being, you know, grabbing, I'm like, I'm yelling at Drummond. I know as soon as I go about, we got about a 10 minute hike. As soon as we get up on this ridge, we're going to be able to shoot across this draw and kill him. And I look back at Drummond, he's like, Greg, your rifle. And I said, I said, Drummond, I've got my rifle. He's like, no, you don't. And I'm like, and I put my thumb inside my backpack, you know, strap, you know, the, the harness

of my backpack and I pulled it out. Like it was a sling. I'm like, Drummond is right here. Let's go. He's looking at me. I was like, Greg, I'm not going to argue with you. The gun is in the car. And I look, realize that's my backpack. I'm grabbing, you know, I'm in meltdown at this point because there's other people. And I think someone else has seen the buck. Jeff thinks there's other people moving towards him and I'm just panicking it. Run back to the truck. And at first I thought I'd left the gun on the glassy knob, you know? So I run back to the truck, grab the gun, run back up there past Drummond. And I'm flying up the ridge, get up there, start setting up a rest. And when, as soon as I top out on the ridge, I can see one of the two does and I ranger. And we lay down. It was like seven 57, I think. And we lay down.

There's no way to get closer unless you're, cause you're kind of shooting across a big swale. And if you get any closer, you're going to have to shoot them from 30 yards, you know, like right down in there. So I lay down, I had those Phoenix shooting bags, you know, with those airbag type deals. I put them under the thing, set up the bipod, it was a solid rest on the doe. I can't see the buck though. That term locked in, like we talked about earlier on the hog. Ironically, the same distance as the hog, you know? Okay. Thank God this happened before the hog or my confidence would have been gone, you know? Yeah. And so I dial up the turret and I'm waiting. I, you know, I'm talking to Jeff and I'm like, do you see him? He's like, I haven't seen him in 20 minutes. You know, when I went to look for you and came back, I haven't seen him, but I can still see that doe.

I'm sure he's right there, you know, and there's a couple of juniper trees over there. And this doe is like, she sees us set up and she's looking up at us. Then she's looking 15 yards to her right behind a tree. I know the buck's there. And then she's looking at us and she's looking at this. And so we're all talking about this and we're convinced the buck's just on that doe. He's got her bedded right in one of those little two trees, you know? And so this goes on for 45 minutes. And then, uh, when it, so then Jeff says something to me, like, um, I don't remember how it all went, but you know, I'm like about five or six minutes before the buck got up after 45 minutes. I, there was some stuff that made us think that it wasn't make adding up. Like other people were going a different direction after another buck, you know? And I'm thinking, is this our buck for sure, Jeff?

And he's like, you know, remember it was a hundred percent originally a hundred percent. It's him. Well, I'm a 83%. No, he gave me a 99. Oh, 1% loss. And I said, oh, and he goes, but listen, Greg, he said, you remember, I didn't see the buck. This is a giant buck regardless. You know, he goes, he's got, he's, he's mid thirties. He's real heavy. And he's got extras on his right, you know, it's gotta be him. And it's, we're talking like 600 yards from where the night before a thousand yards away. And I'm thinking, everything makes sense. Yeah. And I said, Jeff, I'm not holding you to it. I'm going to look at the buck, you know? And I said, I just want to make, I'm just trying to make sense of why everyone else is leaving. The area, you know, why is everybody leaving? What are we missing? They're running in the opposite direction with guns in hand running.

Cow is above their head, taking off. Yeah. And so I was like, you know, and I'm like, I don't know what's going on. There's nobody in here. You know, there's gotta be, you know? And so I'm laying there and right about then the buck stands up and Jeff's like, he's up, you know? And I remember saying to Jeff, I'm like, you know, Jeff's like, he's right behind the doe. And I look up, I see the doe, you know? And I'm like, what? Which doe? And he's like, that doe we've been talking about for 45 minutes, stared at, you know? And then right then he steps up behind the tree, you know, and into my plain view. And he's just lit up in the sun and he just steps out broadside, turns his head, looks right at us, starts lip curling. And then he turns his head straight away and lip curls. Then he puts his nose straight up. I mean, he gives you like every possible look.

And at that point, I remember Drummond was video getting ready. You know, he was setting up his video phone scope. And I'm like, turn that thing off. I said, don't film it. I need you to be giving me the holdovers, you know, in case something goes bad. I want to know what the yardage is and the holdovers are. That's way more important. He's like, seriously? I'm like, yes. So he's got my Zices and I'm like, give me the range on him. So he gives it to me in the holdover. I dial it up. And I mean, the crosshairs were so steady for 45 minutes on that go. And now here I am on this buck and I look at him in the scope. And I remember saying to Drummond, it looks bigger than he did last night. And I remember saying that to Drummond and I'm trying to calm down and get relaxed. Cause I mean, it's a long shot and you gotta have everything just right.

And I was like, the crosshairs are all over the place. I mean, I'm going from his nose to his tail, to his foot, to his back. And I'm on sandbags. Locked in is very, very loosely. Loosely. This was nothing compared to the locked in I was on that hog. Okay. So I'm like, and Drummond's like, Greg, shoot him. You know, he's going to get out of there. And I'm thinking, Drummond, I need to, I do not, I'm not steady. I said, I'm not taking this. I just didn't want to wound this buck. You know, I'm like, I'm not shooting until I'm steady. He's like, well, then take a deep breath. And I'm like, you know, now it's. Hurry and take a deep breath. Hurry and squeeze. Hurry up and calm down. No rush, but he's leaving. Yeah. And then he's just swinging his head around. And he takes a step and nudges the doe and pushes her forward. And so I, and then all of a sudden it's just like, I took a deep breath.

And all of a sudden the crosshairs just settled in. And I remember when the gun went off, it just completely surprised me. And I usually with those bigger magnums with those breaks, it's hard to get back on and see your impact sometimes. And I just remember it came right back into my shoulder and I watched the vapor trail the whole way to the deer. And, and I watched him just crumple and, and, uh, but he was struggling to get, I jacked another round in and I even shot a second time within about three seconds, you know, and Drummond's yelling, stop, stop, stop. And the buck's laying there and he's not moving at all. So you sure he's dead? And he says, he says, Greg, he's not even moving his antlers on the side. So I put the scope up to like 26 power and I put it on his horns. And then I realized it's not the buck from the night before. And that's the first time I noticed it.

And I'm like, and I'm like, Drummond, I'm like, this isn't the buck from the night before. And he's like, don't, don't mess with me, Greg. You know, and then I called Jeff. I'm like, Jeff, this is not the buck from the night before. He's like, Greg, don't do this to me. And I'm like, you know, and then I'm like, but this was a giant buck, you know, but you know, in the back of your mind. What is this thing? Yeah. Yeah. And I'm telling, and then I recognized the buck. And the only thing that scared me was I recognized that left horn as the buck that I didn't like in the trail cam picture. It didn't look as good. I don't know which buck this is. This is the one I passed. I didn't even want to hunt. And they called him the elk horn buck, you know? And, and, and, and I turned to Drummond. I'm like, Drummond, this is the elk horn buck.

And he's like, I'm like, that buck's, I said, we both looked at him. He's giant. It's our fifth choice. It's our fifth choice buck. Yeah.

And so I'm thinking to myself, did I just mess up on morning two of the 10 day hunt, you know? And then Drummond's like, no. And I'm like, no, Drummond, I said to you, he looks bigger than he did last night. There's no way this isn't a giant buck. You know what I mean? And the fact that when he was swinging his head, I've never seen anything like it in my life. It was just, you know, them, those wide bucks. Like I love wide bucks and I can see all the mass. And I'm like, no, this is it. But, you know, I knew what buck it was. So I, I get on the radio and I call up Clay and, uh, and I'm like, all right, Clay. I said, it ended up not being the buck from last night. Cause I told him I was benched in. I said, it's not the buck from last night. It's the buck is Clay is just right around the corner, you know, on another knob with Jim. And I'm like, it's the Elkhorn buck.

And Clay's like, really? It's the Elkhorn buck. And Clay was like, I'll never forget it. Clay's like, he goes, well, he goes, but we need to shoot. He's thinking I'm meaning like I passed it or something, you know? And he's like, well, that buck needs to be shot. You know? I'll bring Jim over there. I'm like, no, I shot him. He's dead. Clay and you're dead. And I remember saying, Clay, this is a giant buck, right? Or he's like, oh yeah, it's a good, it's a giant, it's a big buck. It's our fifth choice. It's a solid buck. No, no, he didn't say that. He'll eat good. Remember, he's used to looking at trail camera pictures of these bucks. He knew it was a big buck. I just didn't know it was a big buck. And, uh, so then I ran over there and, and, uh, I got there maybe, I don't know, a minute or two before Clay did, you know, from his angle.

And when I got up to the deer, I just, I could not, I mean, I'm not going to lie. For 800 yards in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, what'd we do? You know, if I hadn't seen the trail camera picture, I would have said, who gives a crud? It's a giant deer. You know what I mean? But because I'd seen that camera picture, I kept thinking, what if he looks like he does on camera, you know? Yeah. And I walked out of that last bush and he was laying there. And I mean, I'd never seen anything like it in my life. You know, I like, I called up drumming and Clay and everybody on the radio. I'm like, you guys are not going to believe this thing. It is so giant. I just, I couldn't believe it when I finally walked up to it. Wow. Dang. And then Clay came up and I, I, I just remember Clay walking up and he was with his daughter who I've never met.

I had talked to her on the radio, you know, but I'd never met her. And, uh, and so he comes walking up and I just remember tack grabbing Clay and shaking him like a rag doll, spinning him around. You know, Clay's not a big guy, you know, either of I, I'm like spinning him around in circles and, and I'm like, look at the size of this thing, Clay. And I set Clay down and he's like, I can't see Greg. You broke my glasses. And I'm like, and I'm a dear guy and I've got eight days left to that guy. I've got to go back to town and get some of my backup glasses. They're just like mangled, you know, they're like the lenses are bent out. I'm like, Oh my gosh. You know? And he's like, so me and Clay are freaking out on the side of this thing. And then I look over at his daughter and she's like, has this look in her face. Like, please tell me he's not going to grab me and start shaking me like this.

You know, I think she was a little worried there for a second. And, uh, and then Jeff and Drummond and everybody came over and it was, I mean, it was truly, it was honestly my whole, I dreamed of killing a buck like that. And I don't care if I ever, I say that at the time I'm already waiting to draw again, but you know, like how this is that one buck I wanted. It's finally, you know, I told Clay when I went through, I said, I don't care about score. I want a buck that looks bigger than he scores, you know, and this buck definitely looks bigger than he's and he still scores. Yeah. I just mean, he looks bigger than he scores. It's the first time I've ever held a buck that I was just speechless. If you don't mind me asking, what did he end up going? He ends up going hard horned to 35 as he is. And he's got about four or five inches broken.

He's got an eye guard broke off and he's got a cheater, a little hook cheater broke off. And, but even with the brakes, he's two 35 hard horn. So it's my dream buck. Yeah. How wide, you know, I like 35 and a half. Depends on how you do it. If you do like against a wall, it's almost 36. If you do it, you know, point to point, it's 35 and a half or something like that. Such a giant. Such a giant. Well, everybody, you know, I've talked to guys that have held it and they like, you got to hold this thing. It's so big. The mass, it's just crazy. What do you think it is about those, that deer specifically maybe, or others on the strip? I mean, I want your thoughts that seem to, they don't usually have ground shrinkage down. No. I mean, they're big eared, big eared and body. Their bodies are giant. Like even looking at him mounted, it's, it's, uh, their heads are so enormous.

Like he's on a wall with five other big deer and his head is twice the size of all of them. Yeah. Yeah. They're different. Mule headed deer. They're different. Yeah. And when you see that and you're not used to those, I'm used to hunting Nevada bucks, you know, Nevada bucks are, you know, they're just pretty, you walk up on those big ones and they look like little, they're not big bodied, you know? And then you see something here. And when you walk up to these deer, it's like, I mean, it's just unbelievable. Like when I was walking up to him, the rub that he was making that morning, he was in that little fold and there was a juniper tree that looked like a big bull elk had torn it to pieces and his tracks were all over there. He'd been tearing this tree to pieces all morning, you know, out of our sight and, or maybe he did it in the night.

I don't know, but it's just, it looked like just their tracks, their feet, their heads. It's, it's unbelievable how big their bodies are. So then when you walk up, it's like, even right now, and I'm looking at him mounted when you have him off of the skull is when he, like when we taped him back at camp and, and you're holding it with just the horns after you've cut it off and you're like, just, it's staggering compared to like when they're on those giant bodies. Well, what, uh, what happened to the, to the big deer from the night before? What, at the end of the day, what happened? Bob and them hunted him the rest of the hunt, that buck or nothing. And, uh, and I, on the last day of the season, they found him again. Um, I think they found him one other time too. Um, but then on the last day of the season, they found him and got on him and, um, the

guy missed him and then he ran a couple hundred yards and somebody else missed him and he got missed twice and never got shot. He lived like he's one that people are looking forward to seeing this year. Yeah, I would imagine. Yeah. Well, it just seems like, it seems like nothing lives out there. Well, everything gets known about. And then you're like, you had to be a little nervous. You got the rifle hunt after the archery hunters get done killing everything. And it was a good archery hunt, meaning dry and people set water and whatnot. But then, you know, you got the governor tags. Like there's a lot of deer that die between then and the time your hunt comes on. Oh yeah. You know, I would all, I would much prefer to have an archery tag. Like it's that for that very reason. And I just think, you know, is there just, it's, there's a reason why so many big bucks get killed everywhere.

And, you know, with archery versus rifle, it's, it's, I mean, obviously it's harder to stalk him and kill him, but it's easier to find them that I would rather have it. It's just, it's, it's, uh, it's such a nightmare to get away that time of year for me, you know, and like even Jeff, when Jeff drew it, it was, it's a nightmare to even get Jeff away, you know, cause then I don't have somebody for weeks, you know, while he was doing his own hunt and, and, uh, you know, and plus you got to do it justice. You got to do all the scouting and everything else. And, and, uh, yeah, I, I mean, it was, it's definitely a better situation on a really good year like that when there were so many good bucks up there that I wasn't, you know, you keep seeing all these bucks getting killed and, you know, Clay killed a couple of giant bucks with two governor's tags.

And then you're like, gosh, they're all going to be gone, you know, but it does. And it's, it's, that's why I didn't want to see pictures. Like I said, I didn't want to be stressed about it for four months. I was worried about it. I just thought I'm going to go there and I'm going to have a great time no matter what. Well, with your passive personality, you wouldn't have been stressed anyway. Yeah, exactly. Luckily I was in Nevada hunting a buck that was giving me fits the whole time. It was preoccupying me. So that made it a little bit, made the time go by a little better. How did, uh, how did, how'd your buddy end up the rest of the, what, seven, eight days after that? Did you stay out there with them? Um, you know, we, that evening we went out and then, uh, actually I think he went out with clay that evening.

And then the next day he and I went out, we, we all went out, looked around for him. And, uh, we went and looked for that other buck that I wanted to hunt. Turns out he'd been killed. Um, someone killed him the second day of the season. The same time when I shot mine, about the same time they'd already killed him. We didn't know it. So we were down there looking for a deer that wasn't even around. And I found out later and, um, and they ended up, uh, they shot an incredible buck. I would say six, seven days in like a 32 inch plus frame. And then, uh, two, I don't know. And I don't quote me on this, but I think he has like four inches of extras and he's on like a four or five inches of extras on a 32 inch frame around two Oh five on the frame or something like that. Like two 50. I think they said two 14, two 15, something like that.

Just a great deer, just a great big old typical with a floating beam. Wow. I posted a video of him and, uh, he, he, he, and, uh, Jim's, it's a neat, I got to hold it cause it's at the same taxidermy shop. I think I wasn't there when they shot it. I had to go back and start my elk hunts and, uh, in Arizona. So, um, I wasn't there when he shot it. That was, I only got to stay another day after I got mine. I mean, I talked to all my clients into, they were all pretty understanding. If I didn't get done, I was staying the whole hunt. But if I got done, I promised him I'd come back and get back to their camp, you know? And so I went back to Arizona and, but yeah, Clay had a heck of a year. He shot, they shot that Hollywood bug, my bug. They, they shot Jim's big buck. And then, uh, they killed two other, they killed another buck that was like two 17 to 18. They had a heck of a year.

It was unreal last year. It was a good year to draw. Yeah. Wow. He killed a lot of good ones on the archery and the, and the, you know, the governor's tags and all those other ones also, but they, he had a really good year. It's amazing with all the, it's amazing with all the, the pressure, the advancements in technology and everything that there's deer that make it to the epic proportions. I mean, and do you feel like that the pressure's too much? Do you feel like it's about right? I mean, obviously it just keeps pumping them out, but it makes you wonder if they're four and five year olds that are just amazing genetics or if they're actually getting real age on them. Yeah. I'm really curious to see what the age is on my buck. The warden thought he was around eight, um, but they took a tooth on him and, and, uh, I'm waiting. I haven't heard back.

I'm dying to see, um, what, what his age ends up being. He seemed like, uh, to me, I would have guessed somewhere around there. I'm not very good at that kind of stuff. The tag numbers are fine. Like they're, they're getting old deer and a deer, some deer are slipping through the cracks. I think it's, I think for sure that's the case. And because there's not as many tags as you, you know, that, and it's such a big area that deer are just making, I, I have, I have the same concerns that every time I hear about it all these years, I think, well, that's done. If you remember like back in 09, the year after I had the tag was that banner year where they shot 20 something, 200 inch deer, if you remember. And it was like, well, that place is done. And then the next year it's back again. It just, it just seems like the genetics are so good and, uh, and the numbers are, it

is a renewable, it is somewhat of a, yeah, it is some somewhat of a renewable resource. And so how does it feel just real quick and, you know, not to keep it going, but how does it feel? You feel like you get a once in a lifetime tag and for residents, it's not necessarily the case, but it feels like that. How, how does it feel with the pressure? Like the, obviously your story's crazy and there's pressure. I mean, and, and there's a little bit of a juggling act dealing with everybody. Um, is it, does it take away from the hunt? Is it okay just because you're out on the strip and it's just being out there is, is a once a lifetime type experience. I mean, how do you navigate that? And in your mind, how does it play? I made the mistake of doing that kind of, um, the very, you know, I would say, um, you know, I, I did this back in other hunts that I've had in the past a long time ago where I

let the, it took away from the hunt where I wasn't even enjoying it, you know, because of the, the fact that the tag was so good. You just think it has to be that. And, and I just, I just changed my whole mindset on that now. And I just don't, I don't, I just don't take it that way. You know, like starting, I can remember in 04, I had a really good tag in Nevada and I can remember one of the days just decided I'm not going to go, I'm going to stay in and sleep in with my kids. They were in the trailer with my wife and I'm like, I'm not going to go out today. And I got a month and I'm going to take my time. And I had so much more fun on that hunt and it doesn't change the outcome as far as being stressed all the time is not going to change the outcome. So I just try to go into it with the decision. All you can do is the things you can control and it's going to happen or it's not going

to happen. I feel way more pressure on once in a lifetime tags when I'm guiding, because then I just feel it because you're, you feel like they're counting on you and they paid money and, and you feel like you're letting somebody down. That's what makes my own hunt so much more enjoyable. I don't feel any pressure on my, like I honestly, and people don't believe me. I had no expectations going into that hunt. I really didn't. I was going to go up there with Truman and Jeff and Clay and Blake and all, and just have a great time. And, and don't get me wrong. I wanted to kill a big deer, but I was looking more forward to just hanging out with those guys with zero pressure and go try to kill a big buck than I was about the results of it. Now on my own hunt, now my hunts I'm doing, I'm the opposite. I'm a basket case when I'm guiding.

I'm so stressed about it because I feel like if someone doesn't get one, it's the end of the world to me. You know, that's how I take it. I take it hard when someone doesn't get one, no matter what the tag is. So those are way harder for me than my own personal hunts. Well, you got to coach yourself to keep that mentality of enjoying the hunt. And we find ourselves coaching ourselves. Like, you know. You got to enjoy it. You can't, you can't get overwhelmed by the magnitude of it. We've each, Jason, you've had a lady at deer tag in Arizona. And I got lucky and you got a Henry mountains deer tag. Those would be in the same realm of what we're talking about. And you can heap it on yourself if you let yourself go there. Sounds like you, and partly due to your schedule, Greg, in Nevada, you were 40, 50 days, however many straight in Nevada before you could even get to Arizona.

That probably helped. Like, that's going to take care of itself when I get there because I've got. And you hired somebody. Because you can't do it justice and just show up the night before the hunt there and say, where are we going to start looking? And so, but I think also, yeah, the mentality of you're going to go down swinging and hunt a big, big deer and go down swinging. And maybe I can accept that a little bit easier myself too. If it doesn't go your way, I know I'm going to do everything for myself. But it is tougher when you take a hunter because whether it's their once a lifetime tag or their hard on money or both, you don't want to leave a bad taste in somebody else's mouth. It's easier to have a bad taste in your own mouth about your own hunt when it's over. If you gave everything you got, for some reason it is. I couldn't agree with that more.

I just, it's, I, like I said, and if you, I'm always, it's funny because I'm always saying that to my clients. Like, man, just try to have a good time. Cause it's not, you want to leave. Like, for example, if I hadn't shot that big buck, there were so many fun and it was only, it was a short trip, you know, day and a half of scouting. And then we shot him on the second morning. So then we hung around with Jim for another day and a half or whatever. But even in that short span of time, there were so many hilarious fun times that we had with Drummond and Clay and Drummond telling these stories and, you know, at Clay's ranch. And if, if you get all stressed out, worked out about the hunt and then it doesn't work out, then you don't even enjoy all those parts of it. You know, whereas if you just have a good time, like now I got the best of both worlds. I got a big deer.

Plus I have all those things. But even if I hadn't got one, Drummond and I will be talking about that trip forever, you know, and Jeff and some of the things, Jeff, Jeff, any trip that Jeff does is comical, you know, and it has its moments. So it was, it was a lot of fun. And as long as you don't, I just tell guys, man, just try not to get, it's not going to change the outcome. Hunt your hardest and getting stressed is absolutely not going to, I've had so many people over the years that I can just tell or ate up with it. And they're constantly talking about how it's there once. Oh my gosh, but if I don't get one, I'll never draw this tag. And, and, and then all of a sudden they finally get one on the second to the last day. And, but they ruined their hunt leading up to it because they never enjoyed any part of it because they were just stressed the whole time.

A lot of times have an Instagram and watching all the big deer fall around you. And here you are, you're still hunting and you're just thinking, man, everybody's killed a big deer, but me. And it's just, it just adds it up. I've got a, I, we talked about that with an outfitter came by, uh, purchased some trail cameras from us. And he was just like, you know, we were talking about a client that he had taken and, and he was just like, you know, he just, every night was like, look at this deer and look at this deer. And, you know, this outfitter is having a great year and it just kind of took over and changed the hunt a lot for the, for the worst. You know what I mean? It just, it just changed it. Um, anyway, that's, it's just part of it. Managing that, you know, managing that people are going to be successful around you. It's okay. Don't let it take away from your hunt.

But anyway, congratulations. I love hard horn deer. You get to see all those bloodlines and all the characteristics and they're just gorgeous. And, uh, you know, there's one thing about velvet deer. We all hunt them and they're gorgeous too, but man, there's nothing like a, in my mind, just a big old hard horned rotten deer. That's just, they get them white faces and there's just nothing better. Yeah, nothing better. So of course you're a mule deer freak and you, and you, you, you kill elk and great, you know, great at hunting those as well and taking your clients to and harvesting some giants. But what's the, maybe, you know, there's kind of a takeaway set like we did with your, you know, rifle and long range hunt, uh, the long range shooting that you've been doing, you know, what's the, you know, a takeaway that people can learn from you as far as if they

want to hunt big deer, maybe, uh, you know, what can they take away from gray crow that helped them be more successful in the field? I don't think there's anything special about the guys that are doing it other than they're persistent. You know, it's being persistent is the absolute, you know, uh, not like, especially the bigger bucks and, and, you know, uh, look at some of the deer you've killed over the years and like in Nevada and the deer we've killed over the years, they're all, none of them are like stumbled into. I, I, most of them are, and I'm not saying there hasn't been one, but most of them are deer that you find and then you lose them and then they disappear. And, and the, the guys that are successful, the ones that just never give up on it. And, and if you just keep staying out and knowing the way big deer behave, I just think so many

people don't realize how much, how big deer more than, more than younger deer, and older the deer gets in my opinion, anyway, the more habitual and territorial and, and, and set in his ways that he gets. And just cause you're not seeing them does not mean that he's not there and that you need to move or give up. And that's probably the hardest thing. Cause when you have to go a long times without seeing one, um, you know, last year was a great example in Nevada. I was hunting a really big buck and had him all to myself. Nobody had camera pictures of him that I know of. I don't even, I still, to this day, don't know where he was drinking. And we had him to ourself for, I mean, 60 days, you know, and we couldn't get him killed. We, we tried and we, we, we'd find them repeatedly, especially in the beginning.

We'd see him like when I went in there in early July, I could find him every single time I looked for him and then as he got, I tried to stay out of there so that, you know, I wouldn't run into anybody in there. And then I went back right before the hunt, we found him right away and everything was still the same. And we were on him and he was doing the same stuff and he was always in a certain area. And this deer had been there for two or three years, three years, you know, he just blew up that year. And so we knew that was right where he lived. And then all of a sudden day four of the hunt, a lion shows up and he disappears, you know? And, you know, we were, I want to say 40 yards from the buck or 45 yards from him in his bed. We were actually drawing to shoot him when he laid down and then he laid down in the

wide open, but he was facing Jason and we just didn't have a shot on him cause he was dead on. And the way he was laying, it was just kind of awkward and he was in gravel and we sat there for an hour watching him and it was, you know, an hour before dark and then two mountain lions show up and they're sneaking up on him, trying to kill him. And we actually watched the whole stock and then he'd blow the deer up and he runs by and we don't get a shot at him. And we did find him again the next morning and we were stalking him again. And again, the same mountain lion is right there in front of us that we didn't even know was there, blows him a second time. And then we didn't see him for a while. And that was so hard. We'd go six, seven days without seeing him. Then we'd see him again. And we would go six, seven days without seeing him. We'd see him again.

And it was very glassable country broken up, but very glassable. And I think we hunted that buck a total of between, you know, actual hunting, not even the scouting, but we hunted him probably 30 days between August 10th and, you know, September 15th to 20th in there, probably 30 days. And then again, more muzzleloader. And we lost him for the last time right before, right around, I would say the day before the muzzleloader season. And we didn't see him again until the day we killed him in late October. Those deer, those deer will make a man out of you. They're brutal. So it takes a lot. Yeah. We hunted him with multiple clients and multiple places. And then we go in there and then when we kill him, it's exactly where he's been the entire time. And made it look easy. We only saw that deer in four different places. Yeah. Made it look easy. It's hard. Yeah. And then he's right there.

And it's like, you gotta be kidding me. And someone else was in there. It was funny. Someone was in there the day we killed him. We hadn't seen anybody hunting this deer. And the day we killed him, somebody else filmed them that morning. And it's hard to do, you know, we talked, you talked about be persistent and that's, that's true, but it's, it's another thing to do it to that level. Whether it be individually or, or with a client, because to push your chips to the center of the table and say, that's the buck. And the rest of my hunt is for that buck. It's easier said than done. It's, it's a grind. And I've had clients that aren't caught up for that after six days and you're on the same glassing knobs, although you're swapping your spotters every day, just to give the client a little bit different, something to look at, but you know, you shouldn't be anywhere else.

There's nowhere else we should be than right here. It's a hard concept. Sometimes the people haven't hunted a deer that way to convince them that that's the thing that they should do. And obviously you're not doing that for just to kill a deer. You're doing that for one specific giant, but it's harder. It's harder to do than it is to say. It's the most terrible thing in the world. We did it and didn't win. The deer, deer, who knows, never showed up the next year. The deer was, got away and yeah. What do you, what do you do? You know what I mean? And you don't always win. If you, the odds of switching in the middle and finding another deer of the caliber of the one you're hunting though, are so slim that, and even if you did happen to go to a spot that had a buck that big, you still have to find him also. And he's not going to be easy.

So I just, but you try to convince somebody of that and certain people don't want to do it. And everybody wants to hunt a big buck until, but that's what it takes to kill them. And it's, it can be brutal. Yeah, that's right. So, you know, what I've noticed in Nevada a little bit, I was just going to run this by and we're, we're all but out of time, but it feels like Nevada, like you said, this deer that you were hunting for, you know, for 30 something days ended up killing in October with another client blew up that, you know, he just, he blows up one year. You knew about him for a couple of years. That's what it feels like in Nevada. Sometimes I've watched these deer go, I got sheds from a deer and then I killed him. He was 237 gross. He jumped from 187 to 237. I have the sheds. That's, that's, it seems like Nevada has that potential. The strip does too.

In these special places with water. But then Nevada, it feels like they have one or two great years, one or two, and then they're never the same, which it feels like on the strip, they'll have four or five sets of great sheds. You know what I mean? But Nevada, it's like the stars have to be perfect. I don't know if you get that or if you feel that way. No, I do. And I, do you think it's, my thing is depending on where it's at, but like that, the bush, are you on the, I don't notice it as on the desert. But I think it's because of moisture, you know, for sure. And then, but like in 231, I've seen that on deer, but it's like, I think when you have cold winters, you know, it can get cold in that country, you know, and, and different, but like, I just think like the desert unit, it's all about the moisture. And I just think we usually don't get that optimum stuff except for two or three times

during that. Say there's, you know, when they're, when they're going to be big, say between three and eight, you know, or between four and eight, you only have four chances at it. And the moisture level. Two or three or four of those can be average to less than average years. And so you got to get the right deer with the right genetics at the right perfect age. And for him, it might be five and a half, six and a half, seven and a half, whatever. And then the right moisture. And like you're, we're talking right now, we're just assuming it's going to be a great year, but who the freak knows? We had great moisture all fall, all winter up to March. Now it's been super dry. Yeah. And how does, how does each deer different too? Like even deer in the same area, that's the part of like, you'll know about this. You remember the buck? Um, gosh, it was probably three or four years ago.

And you, you posted a picture of him. Yeah. Uh, the buck that Jason ended up killing. Jason killed the big wide deer that had. Yeah. And you remember what he was the year before? Oh yeah. Yeah. And the, and, and how much bigger it was the year before yet that was a great moisture year in that area. And every other buck in that area blew up except for him. And he went down. I know. And you just, it's the, and is it the individual health of the deer? Is it, you know, obviously it's age. We know that obviously it's moisture, but I think there's more to it. Nevada just has, these deer do not reach their maximum except for once or twice in their life. And it feels like the strip, I mean, I mean, they, you got Houdini and all these other bucks and they, it feel now and they go down, they have down years, but they pop back for a couple of years. We just, I just don't see that.

Nevada's just, anyway, it just feels like, it feels like you have one or two shot. I have a deer. I have a deer that was a giant, finally figured him out, came back. He was still a giant, but I let him, I let him live and, and did not hunt him, had a tag in my hand. And didn't hunt him hoping he would come back to that special year. I felt like he was one of those deer that had the genetics. I just had to take that chance. And I was the only one hunting him. And then he never, he came back. He's 180 inch ribs showing done. I had him at 20 yards in the velvet and that was the last year I saw him. And I just feel like, and I have the big set of sheds and I'm just like, he had, he had one great year, another probably pretty impressive year. I wish I had those sheds and then that was it. That was his life. You know what I mean? And how big was he at his biggest?

He's like a 230 inch, but loggy. Like when you clunk, clink them together, it's like a strip buck. Like loggy. Like when you see the deer, when you hold the sheds, you're just like, oh, that's a strip deer. I mean, but you just don't get those in Nevada. You just don't get them. You know what I mean? And. Oh yeah. And then when you do, you think, okay, this is one of those that could pop back. He never popped back. He never popped back. You know what I mean? And so. And they were good years too. Like the year he went to 180 was a decent. Yeah. It was a great year. It was a great year, but he was probably ancient rib showing big giant bodied. Yeah. Just, just at the end of his, you know, lifespan. So he had a weird injury. You never know. One year you think it's going to line up perfectly. He had a weird injury. I don't know. Hurts his foot snake. I don't know.

Takes a broad head to the shoulder blade. Something that you can't ever predict. And that was his year that the stars quote aligned and he didn't have it to give basically. Just feel like the deer in Nevada are fragile. Like they don't, they, they have a good year, but it, you know, kill them when they have a great year. Cause you don't, nothing's promised. The next year is not promised. The next five years aren't promised. It just feels they're sensitive. I don't know. Feels that way anyway. Oh, for sure. I'm, I've definitely had bucks. I got all excited about it. And then you go back and you're like, really? You know? Well, hey, you know, and then you got 185 inches. The nice thing is, is you could have 185 inches that goes to 220, 230. There it, and you, we, you see it. I see it. It does give you hope, you know, that, yeah, all I saw was 180 inch deer.

Well, you probably ought to go look at them, you know? Yeah. So. I was thinking about that this morning, about a couple of deer. I'm like, ah, that deer can blow up though. You know, we need to go look at that one. In my mind, I've seen all these deer that weren't great, but they look like they have the potential in their right age and they do definitely blow up there. Yeah. So. Well, Greg, we've taken most of your morning. You've got horses to feed or something. I don't know. Guns to shoot. Darrels to melt. That's right. Well, we appreciate your time. It's always fun talking and, and, uh, get a firsthand account of your Arizona strip deer hunt was awesome. Appreciate your time with us today and your knowledge and, and, uh, appreciate you again, working the deal with us, uh, to be able to buy a hunt from you, a lander tag for our membership drive that we're going to give away here.

Then we look forward to giving you the guy or gal lucky name, uh, who wins that. So. All right. Sounds good. Thanks for having me on guys. That was fun. Yeah, sure. Appreciate it. Congrats again on all your success. We're looking forward to what you knocked down this year, your clients, yourself. And, uh, anyway, we appreciate the time. Thank you. Look at your guys' sense as well. All right. Talk to you later.