EP 18: Yukon Moose Giveaway with Jarrett Deuling

It's an immense amount of country that you've got up there. Most of them have never been heard a human call before. It's hard to comprehend until you just get up there and see. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour.

Hey everybody, Jason Carter here with Adam Brownson here at the Epic Outdoors Podcast. Got a super special guest, a guy that we've known for years and have a ton of respect for, Jarrett Dooling of Dooling's Toad Outfitters. Anyway, super excited to get into the middle of it with him. But before we do, we do want to throw a shout out out there to Under Armour and for all their support of Epic Outdoors and some of the different programs that we're involved with them and different projects. I've been involved with them for years and years with the Ridge Reaper TV show as well as other things that they've wanted to do with us. So, just super appreciative of them and all that they do for Epic Outdoors as well as the hunting community and everything. So, anyway, appreciate them. And then also, just want to remind everybody that here at Epic Outdoors,

we do a monthly publication from December through June. And then after that, it's a bi-monthly publication for nine total issues a year covering all the western states, including Canada, Alaska, and Mexico as well as far as the different hunts that are available and work with different outfitters. This podcast is with Jarrett Dooling, owner of Dooling Stone Outfitters. This is the outfitter that we purchased a fully paid for Alaska Yukon moose this September. Remember the last two weeks of the month, September 17th to the 29th, and the peak of the rut. You can get in the drawing only two different ways. One is to either join our service by April 28th or refer a new member. If you're a member already and you have a family member, a friend, somebody that wants to join our service, refer that member to us. You'll get a name in the hat for that. That's the only two ways.

You can't buy tickets. It'll be given away to one lucky winner on Saturday, April 29th. The deadline is 28th. So get your membership in or refer somebody by that date. If you have three or four friends, you know, they can all join. They all join. You'll get that many tickets in the hat. So super excited to give this away. You know, it's something easy if they just call in. They can call in or join online and just make a note in the notes box that you refer to them. Great. It's really easy. It takes no time at all. Like Adam said, you can't buy your way in. So there's not that many tickets in the draw, so to speak. It's going to be fairly good drawing odds. And Adam and I have been on this hunt. Had an incredible experience with dueling stone. Also hunted doll sheep up there. Doll sheep slash stone sheep with them and killed a fan. And they're a great group of guys.

One of the best that we know. They've averaged incredible size on moose. Some years he hesitates to say. But, I mean, it's upwards of 68-inch type bulls. It's just an unbelievable opportunity for one of our members. We're so excited to give it away. Yep. One thing to point out is this isn't something we got given to us by Jarrett. We bought this hunt full price, what, two years ago or so, Jason. And we paid full price. We know how far in advance Jarrett books out, especially for this late rut hunt, which is what we wanted this member to experience. We bought and paid for it full price so we could secure those dates. It's not a gimme hunt. You're going to be treated just exactly as if you, you know, dropped your $20,000 on the table and booked it yourself. That's right.

We were going to give it away there at the end of May, but we were getting close to when, you know, the hunt actually occurs this September 2017. We wanted a guy to be able to get time off work as well as book his flights into Whitehorse. So, anyway, we're super excited. Can't wait to call the lucky winner. So, get your friends in or join yourself and be entered to win. Anyway, as we get started here, Jarrett, you on with us? Yes, sir. Thanks for having me on, guys. You bet. How's things going? How you been? Pretty good, guys. Yeah, looking forward to the upcoming season. Been a pretty mild winter up north, so we're ready to get rolling. That's awesome, man. Well, good. Well, we sure appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to visit with us. You know, and by the time we get done with this podcast, Adam and I will probably book another hunt with you.

I know we've spent quite a bit of time in your camp over the years. And, anyway, just really appreciate you taking time with us today. Oh, thanks, guys. You, too. It's always a pleasure to have you up there. And look forward to getting you guys back up there sometime. So, as we get started, maybe just tell us a little bit about yourself. I know you've been involved in a lot of different facets of life, not just hunting, but kind of how you got started with hunting. And then other interesting facts about yourself. I know you've been involved with hockey real heavily. And just kind of where you came from and then how you ended up to where you're at today. Yeah, sure. I was fortunate enough to grow up in Yukon in Canada, and especially with a father that was a diehard sheep hunter. So, I got the bug early.

If memory serves me right, I probably went on my very first sheep hunt at six years old with a wonderful Trapper Nelson backpack. And I don't know if you guys know what those are. But the Trapper Nelsons, they certainly have come a long way to these new backpacks. So, you have a good appreciation for a good pack. And anyways, growing up in the Yukon, very fortunate. There's only about, I don't know, maybe when I was there, 25,000 to 30,000 people in the whole territory. There's over 70,000 moose there. So, guy gets pretty spoiled growing up there. Pretty much is over-the-counter tags for everything as a resident. And with my dad being a school teacher, we pretty much had the entire month of August to get going and climb the hills. So, very fortunate for that. Led me through a lot of different opportunities in life. Fortunate enough to be a pro hockey player for seven years.

And afforded me the opportunity to do what I'm doing now as an outfitter. Did some guiding on the side. It's kept me in really good shape for the hockey career. And now I'm entering, I think, my ninth season as owner of Dueling Stone Outfitters in Yukon. That's awesome. Tell us maybe just a little bit more. I know you're not a bragging kind of guy. But tell us a little bit about where your hockey took you. If I'm not mistaken, that's how you came to the United States, wasn't it? Where you at least live half the year now. Correct. Yeah. In Canada, we don't have much going on. It's either hockey or something there. Lots of winter. Nice. Yeah. You got that. So, I was fortunate. I played junior hockey. I left home, went to southern Canada, played junior hockey from 16 years old to 19. And I was fortunate to play for the Camelots Blazers, won in a couple of Memorial Cups.

I was drafted by the New York Islanders in the third round back in, oh boy, I think 1992. Had a few concussions. So, I remember some things and things get a little fuzzy. But I think it was 1992 I was drafted. And then I was shipped to play in their farm team out in Worcester, Massachusetts. So, a little different from western, northern Canada. I kept going to the east coast of the United States, just outside of Boston there for a couple of years. And got a little taste with the Islanders over the course of a couple of seasons. I got shipped to a few different places to play. Ended up in Kentucky, of all places, eventually, where I met my wife. And we've got two growing boys, 9 and 11, that are playing hockey as well. And I've got sucked into the coaching realm now, which I really enjoy. It's a lot of fun with the kids. So, we're quite busy with that.

And I'm just very fortunate for the opportunity to give them the Iniverant of Millionaires. I thought I'd have the chance to play in the NHL and travel North America and the world, for that matter, because of that. And to get paid to play a game, I feel very fortunate for that. Tell us, you know, I know you mentioned about your dad and some of the, you know, that he's a diehard sheep hunter. And I know that he is, because I spent a lot of time with him. He actually guided me when I was up there hunting sheep with you in your outfit. But, and I have a, you know, an immense amount of respect for your dad. But just tell us a little bit about him and maybe some of his accomplishments. And, I mean, his addiction to sheep hunting. I know he's still addicted to sheep hunting and still out there doing it. So, maybe talk a little bit about that. Yeah, sure.

You know, he's a pretty humble guy and really instilled the hard work ethic within me. My dad was, or is to this day, his knees, he's getting a new knee replacement because of the sheep hunting stuff. But he's walked thousands and thousands of miles in the backcountry. I believe he's done it the right way. He's not a big guy for ORVs or any of this other kind of stuff. He's always been a backpacker and doing whatever it took to get into the backcountry, the Yukon. And because of that, he's killed some very, very special animals over the course of his hunting trips. Numerous sheep. He does hold the world record mountain caribou that he ended up killing on a sheep hunt, actually. He was miles and miles back. And at the time when he shot this caribou, he said it was one of the dumbest things he's ever done in his life. He was so far back.

He took him three or four trips to get everything out. I think it was four or five days of packing by himself. But he's just an old school guy. He loves to get way back into the country, away from everybody. Very humble.

And really appreciates the wildness that we have up there. And, you know, big on conservation as well, too. So, like I said, I'm pretty excited for him. He's finally going to get a knee replacement here, I believe, at the end of September. And he did go on a hunt last year. Took my niece out and she killed an absolute thump of a ram, 13 years old. And I think it was like a 165, 166 type sheep. And he did that walking backwards downhill because his knee's so shut. So, he's still at her and I hope he can be more comfortable with the new knee. But he lives and breathes with stuff. If I remember right on that mountain caribou, it seems like it was 12 miles each way. And he'd made, you know, four or five trips to get that caribou out, if I remember right. I might be off a few miles. I don't know. It was unbelievable. It was. It was a pretty tough country he's in, too. And he was by himself.

But, like I said, at the time, he said it was one of the dumbest things he's ever done. But he knew it was a pretty special critter. I think he shot the thing. It was like four or five yards. He actually had to look outside his scope to make sure his rifle was pointing exactly where it needed to be. Because the scope was just filled with all brown. He couldn't see what the heck exactly where he was shooting. Just coming down the trail at him or something. And he stepped off and let it walk by? Or how did he get that close? He was actually, he had just set up his camp and took a little nap and had a cow that was running around, a cow caribou that was running around the tent there. And I think he slept for about an hour or whatever it was, got up and was kind of glassing away for some sheep

and was curious as to where that cow it buggered off to and found her, you know, 50 yards away or something. And then this thing stepped out. And he just, you know, you always see some good critters throughout your life. But this one was just, he knew, was exceptional. You know, he didn't think it was world record material, but he thought it was gargantuan. And when you see something pretty special, whether it's a sheep, a moose, mule deer, whatever, they're big ones you don't need to convince yourself, right? You just know they have that extra wow factor. And this caribou did. And what was amazing, too, this bull was still in velvet, eh? So he killed it the first part of August. And so it made it even look even more impressive, obviously, with the velvet on there. But impressive looking critter. Unbelievable. He sure worked for it. That sure sounds like that's cool.

Well, tell us a little bit about where you're at now in terms of your area, your concession in the Yukon, how you got there, how you, you know, decided upon it. I know there's some history there prior to you just buying it. So tell us about that and, you know, how you started getting going there and how you took it over and whatnot. Yeah, sure. While I was playing hockey, I started guiding as well. I don't know why, but even as a kid, I always wanted to be an outfitter, even when I was playing hockey. So I was able to do that in the summer months because the season's up north. NWT starts mid-July. Yukon starts August 1st. So I could get a month or a month and a half in the guiding before I went south for hockey camps or whatever. They usually start the first week of September.

So something I always wanted to do, I had the very good fortune of working for an excellent outfitter, Bill McKenzie. He had Gainer River outfitters at the time in maybe early 90s. And a wonderful area, just a wonderful, wonderful man. Bill had been, I think he outfitted for nearly 40 years, northern BC and the NWT. Wealth and knowledge, the stories. I was hooked. After my first season up there, you go and try something. It's a lot different than hunting yourself, the guiding aspect. But it was something that I always wanted to do. And I believe I worked at Gainer River there for six seasons, I think. And I'd always kind of was looking at purchasing an area. And so I looked to the Yukon. Yukon was home for me. And I'd always kind of tried to keep my thumb on what was going on, who was selling or thinking of selling. And wasn't much moving at that time.

And so I just kind of picked one area there that I thought it was family owned. Guy had owned it for nearly 20 years. I thought, boy, if they're thinking of selling, maybe I could get my foot in the door at least. Because the really good areas, they're never for sale. They just seem to change hands without anybody, no one.

So I went to work for them, I believe in the name of 2000, somewhere around there, I think. Guided there for, I think, six seasons. And we just had the understanding that if they ever decided to sell, that they'd give me a crack at her. So I think in 2006 or 2007, the owner called me and asked if I was still interested. And we hammered out a deal. And in 2009, I was the owner of Dealingstone Outfitters. And we've got 10,000 square miles located within the Yukon Territory. We're kind of central east of the territory. My border, eastern border touches the northwest territories. And we've got some big, beautiful, rugged countries you guys know. And I think you hunted there a couple times and haven't seen much of it still. So there's still some areas that I haven't been into. Access is a big thing. But we run horse hunts for sheep and moose.

And some boat hunts on lakes and rivers for moose as well. But diversity of game is kind of nice. We're one of the few areas that have stone sheep and doll sheep availability. We've got the Yukon moose, mountain caribou, grizzly bear wolf wolverine. So diversity of game is pretty neat. But the country is just so big up there. Like I said, I think now we're 32,000 people in Yukon. And we're pretty spoiled because when you go on one of those hunts, you just don't see anybody. And for that, we're very, very fortunate. Yeah, it's unbelievable. I know when Adam and I went up there, we were flying. And then when we're flying into an area, we're going for just forever. I mean, I don't know how many hours we flew, but it's just like mountain, mountain, mountain, mountain, country, country. Crazy amounts of country that, you know, you're still exploring even.

And some of that country, like where we hunted our moose in, Adam and I was somewhat new for you. And it's just an immense amount of country that you've got up there and untapped resources. And it's just the craziest, one of the craziest places we've been. Yeah, it seems like for people down here in the lower 48, it's hard to comprehend until you just get up there and see how vast. We've got big mountains down here, but they come and go and they've got a valley in between. Up there, they just go and they go and they go as far as you can see. Right, Jared? I mean, giant is an understatement. No, I think you hit the nail on the head there, Adam, where you said you just can't comprehend until you see it. Because, well, you guys, you fly there and you just don't even see roads. No, there's no roads. There's no way to get anywhere. You can't backpack at all.

It's, you know, on the ground, some of that stuff's so thick. You couldn't go, you'd wear out and, you know, before you ever, and you can't just walk up river drainages. You get across rivers too many times. You just, you know, so tell us how, yeah, how you access your area for most of your camps and area and things like that. You talked a little bit about some of the species that you offer. Well, all of the species. So talk to us about how, you know, somebody, you know, flies, gets to Whitehorse and then what? How do they get to where you guys start them off with their hunt? Yeah, sure. Like I said, we've got 10,000 square miles, so it's an awful big chunk of country. And we actually start in July. Some of our camps to trail horses in. It can take upwards six, seven days just to get into camp. Some of them are three days in. And we'll get camp set up.

But all of our hunters arrive in Whitehorse, Yukon. And then they jump on a float plane from there. And it's, depending on which camp you go to, it could be an hour and a half flight to two and a half hours. It's going to dump you off at your hunt location. The next closest hunter to you might be 30, 40 miles away. That's it. So things are pretty spread out and dispersed. We've got our horseback hunts that we run. We run some backpack hunts for sheep as well, just to access some different country from our horseback hunts. As we were discussing, there's some access limitations, no matter whether you're backpacking or with the horseback hunts. The country is just so vast. You can spend two weeks getting to an area with your horses. So it takes some time. Preseason gets that up. But once you're there, it's a pretty unique situation. I've hunted Colorado, which is incredible.

But you just see orange everywhere. And you're always kind of two to three hours away from a road or a trail. And you don't have that up there. So you've got unlimited space. When you throw your binoculars up on top of that mountain, boy, there's just not much there as for human activity. So I think, you know, obviously not everyone can do these type of hunts. But, boy, if you ever get the opportunity, it's something that people need to experience. Because that true wilderness is shrinking and is getting smaller every year. And we're fortunate up there. But there's a lot of people that haven't experienced it. And it's just absolutely spectacular country. Well, and I, too, to add on to what you were saying, I mean, you indicated there's like 32,000 people that are in the Yukon total, right? Correct, yeah. And so, I mean, here in our hometown, there's 32,000 people or so. Yeah.

And that's when college is out of session. So, anyway, I'm just saying, like, to put it in perspective, and we don't live in a big town. I mean, to put it in perspective, your entire Yukon territory, you've got 32,000, you know, and how many of those guys actually hunt and put in the time. Which, you know, you can see residents up there, but we never see any. We never saw any when we were there. And I've been with you a couple of times. And so, anyway, it's just pretty impressive. And to add on to that, you know, of course, Adam and I are up there. We're hunting moose, and we're in this, you know, new area, and we're all excited about being in some new area. But for all intents and purposes, even your standard camps are, it's not like you're even hunting them out, per se.

Like, you're not, there's so much game, and there's, you know, in your particular camps, your biggest bulls can come from your oldest camps that are hunted, you know, what we might consider, you know, aggressively hunted each year. And your biggest bulls continue to come out of those areas. I mean, the year we were there, I mean, you know, our bulls were fairly moderate compared to some of the giants that were killed out of your regular standard camps. And it was just, it's just so impressive, you know, the size of moose that are, you know, and I know you hesitate to even tell people what your average is because you don't want to, you know, inflate people's expectations. But it's unbelievable what kind of moose are coming out of your area. We're fortunate.

For the Yukon, like, I think one of the biggest things that people from the lower 48 have to realize when they come to the Yukon for any type hunt, whether it's moose, sheep, whatever, we have much lower densities of game than what you guys have. And it's just because, you know, winter for us is September, you know, all the way to May, you know, that's winter. So our densities are lower, but we've got pretty hardy animals. And the ones that make it, they're pretty good. You know, they get to a large size. They're a much larger body. Antlers grow bigger. But, too, I've got an amazing crew. We really focus our harvest on mature bulls. And with our sheep hunts, we're hunting 10-year-old plush rams. We really try and disperse our pressure, as you guys know, you know, during September, which I call my busy months. You know, we may only take two or three bulls out of one camp. That's it.

But you've got, you know, like, 30 or 40, 50 square miles that we're hunting, you know. And there's a lot of country to look at. But I just, you know, we could book a lot more hunters than we do, guys, as you all know. But it comes to quality. Quality of the hunt. Quality of the animal. And for me, I think that's a priority. Obviously, you know, nothing's about safety. But we really, really try and give hunters a great experience at true wilderness hunt. And disperse the hunting pressure. We're very fortunate that our areas are so large. And that enables us to do it. You know, even when it comes to sheep, you know, we don't have a ton of sheep. But we've got some pretty good quality. But we can pass on an 8-year-old ram that's 37 inches. And, you know, come back two years later, if he doesn't win or kill.

And find him at 10 or 11 or 12 years old. You know, after 10 years old, you're rolling the dice on him being alive. But we're very fortunate to have the tool to be able to manage that. Walk away from that younger ram and let him mature. And same with the moose as well. Just that we're so big in the Yukon and there are so many places for people to hunt. That we're able to do that. So we're fortunate with that regard. Walk us through, like, a normal year for you. Like, you know, what you start out with. We talked about trailing the horses in July. And then just walk us through your August, September, October, November time frames. You know, up there in your particular concession. And what you like to do. And the timing of the different hunts that you do. Yeah, sure.

It's a 12-month deal with this outfitting and guiding stuff. You're dealing with hunters and guides throughout the season. But down to the new degree, we basically start second week of July shoeing horses and getting new horses broke and saddled and all the rest of that good stuff. But to begin our trailing in, we're somewhere around July 15th, 16th, 17th. We'll start trucking horses to different drop-off spots to trail in. I like the guys to get in there, get camp set up. You always got to cut some trail with deadfall and such. And our first hunters arrive July 31st. Season opens August 1st. And I run five different hunt dates throughout my season. My first two hunt dates I sell is primarily sheep, whether it be stone or doll, backpack or horseback. Those hunts will run to about the third week of August. And then we switch over to moose combo hunts.

And a great combo is a moose-caribu grizzly bear, obviously. But we'll run from end August all the way through the end of September on those hunts. Our rut for moose begins approximately, you know, September 7th, 8th, 9th. One of those days, the light switch goes on and things go crazy. So we have one pre-rut hunt and then two rut hunts that we offer for our moose hunts. And we wrap up our season September 29th because winter sets in pretty early in the Yukon. And that camp that you guys actually hunted two years ago, the lake froze September 25th. So I thought we were going to have to... I called the head game warden because you cannot use helicopters at all in the Yukon. But in an emergency situation when lakes freeze, we had permission. And thankfully, on the 29th, the big wind came up that morning and got rid of some of that ice. We were able to get the float plane in there.

I know from being right there, if we walked up to that lake and saw it frozen, we'd look at each other like, how much food we got in that cabin over there? Because there's no walking anywhere. No, it's a long way from anywhere there. And, you know, our season actually doesn't close until October 31st. But float plane pilots are usually putting their planes away October 5th to the 7th because lakes can freeze at any time. And we have a lot of high mountain passes that we have to go through. And there can be a ton of snow. And it's pretty important to get all those horses out in good shape. So we're actually missing out on an entire month of hunting season. But winter comes quickly to the north country. And we've got to make sure things are closed up properly and everyone gets home safe and sound. I know we talked when I was there, talked about early spring bear or a few different things.

Like, do you do the bear just mostly on an incidental basis? Or how are you working on that? We do. Yeah.

You know, I do have a couple areas. And one river in particular that I would love to do is spring bear hunt. But you have to have somebody who's pretty flexible on the dates because ice usually doesn't come out of those big rivers until the end of May. Or, you know, or the first part of June. So you have to be somewhat, have someone flexible there on their dates. But as far as our season, when it begins in August, I sell the grizzly bears as a come-by-chance animal.

You know, I run about, depending on the year, 30 to 35 hunters in total with, you know, with all of our sheep and moose hunters. We're killing on average, you know, kind of three to five grizzly bears a year. Well, let's talk about, we're giving away a moose hunt with you. We've, of course, we've paid for it already. But just, you know, kind of excited to give that away. We'll be giving it away here April 29th, the last, you know, time that guys can enter to win, which you can't buy your way in. It'd be just referring members to Epic. But anyway, just as an incentive to get their friends in would be April 28th. So next Friday, it's coming up quick. I know we booked for the September 17th to the 29th of this year and just kind of wanted you to go through what that guy can expect. Yep, absolutely. It's a horseback hunt, so you're going to be in some beautiful country.

Those are prime rut hunt dates.

And the guy should, we are expecting to have some cold, snowy weather. And if that's the case, things can really get hop. And it doesn't matter whether you're hunting elk, mule deer, or whatever. You always want the cold, miserable weather. And that gets those critters moving. So they're prime dates. These hunts generally, I think, you guys bought this a couple years ago, I think. We're usually booked out a few years on these hunts. And it's a prime date. So expect a lot of action.

Typically, you should be seeing some pretty good bulls at hunt date. And I always tell guys, too, you know, the attitude in hunting is changing. You know, it's all about inches and tape measures and that kind of stuff. And kind of my big selling point is, hey, look, we're selling mature animals. You know, that's what we're after. If your guy gets excited and tells you that's the one, that's the one. Because, you know, we've killed some 65-inch bulls. We've killed, I think, our widest bull has been 74. Just a huge, huge bull. But, you know, we've killed some 55-inch bulls that would outscore a 65-inch bull. Because what I really tell guys, it's all about the pan widths, lengths, points, and all the rest of that. Adam's bull is a prime example. Just a gnarly, ancient, old, massive bull that, boy, if I have a hunter.

Yeah, if I have a hunter pass on that, then, boy, he really doesn't have some realistic expectations. But that's what we're trying to sell. That was a great bull. And these are prime dates for a heck of a fun hunt. Tell us a little bit about, I know, living down here, as far as hunting something in the rut, something big, we hunt elk just from a calling, bugling them in standpoint and whatnot. Tell us about some of the excitement of hunting moose in the full rut like that. Some of the challenges or some of the interesting things about that. I know things can sometimes get a little bit western and hairy, but that adds to the whole experience there. So tell us about what it is to call a bull in on a string or pull one away from a cow, thinking you're a more attractive, lonesome cow than the one he's standing with. Tell us about that. Yeah, I don't know about elk.

I've hunted them a few times. But pulling a bull away from a cow or a harem of cows is one of the most difficult things there is to do for us as moose hunters. But, you know, I was trying to refer to it to try and get in his kitchen and get him ticked off at us and pretend we're another bull because he'll run his cows just like I'm sure elk will to get away from those other bulls. But eventually they get ticked off and they're going to come and kick some butt. And that's where we can be pretty successful. We're so fortunate too, guys. You know, some of those elk hunting places, those bulls get called to a lot. But our bulls, you know, most of them have never been heard a human call before, you know. So we're very fortunate in that regard that hunting mooses and rocket science, you have some wiggle room once they're coming into a call. Holy cow.

You know, another thing that works great for – yeah, you better be ready. But what works great for us too on our horseback hunts, they work as decoys. We've had bulls come in so close to our horses thinking, you know, they're coming in grunting and rutting, thinking they've hit the mother load that they've got eight cows there, right?

And, boy, they've come so close. I've had to throw rocks at them to get them away. You know, you've got a pack string and the horses are going every direction and you've got a grunting bull moose come running through there. You want to talk about western, holy cow, buckle up. Hold on, boys. I bet. But, yeah, it's pretty neat, you know, those younger bulls or any bull, you know, that they come in, boy, it really gets. Something that big, like I still get blown away at how big our bulls are, eh? Like the girth of that body is incredible, eh, guys? Like the heart's got to weigh, I don't know, almost 10 pounds. And that's seven foot tall at the hump on their shoulder. And it's just a huge animal. And to get them to come in, you know, 10 yards, it's pretty exciting. It is. It's intimidating. I know, you know, when we were up there, we were on the earlier hunt.

And so they were just getting into the rut. But I remember we called an average bull in. When I say average, he's probably 45 or 50 incher. And it's pretty awesome, yeah, when they're walking in at 20, 30 yards. And you realize that thing could step on me like an insect and just smash me. But I – and you said it a minute ago, they're not – it's not that they're rocket science to hunt. You just got to find the right one and the right setting. And I would imagine, like this hunt winner that we've got, if they're – obviously, if they're a rifle hunter, no problem. If they're a very experienced bow hunter and can keep their composure and all that, moose, in a lot of regards for experienced bow hunters, lend themselves to archery hunting or obviously rifle hunting. So whoever wins this would have that option, I'd imagine. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

For archery hunters, I would steer more towards our boat hunts on the lakes and rivers. Generally, with our horseback hunts, we're hunting those higher valleys and basins. And it took me a while to figure this out. But we have so much high willow that it is – it makes it pretty difficult for an archery hunter on those horseback hunts to shoot through that willow. That willow could be six, seven, eight feet tall. And you just don't have many shooting lanes, eh? On the lower elevation boat hunts along lakes and rivers, you know, you get them to the shore and you're golden. But, you know, a guy's always welcome to bring his bow and try it and maybe have a rifle as backup. But it is a heck of a fun hunt. And it gets the heart pounding when you can make something that big come towards you. And you see him horn displaying, grunting and slobbering. It's a lot of fun. It's a really good hunt.

Well, and what's crazy about it, it's like when Adam and I were up there, you know, and you call them in, it's different than our species. Our species can pick you out of a tight area or a bunch of different vegetation. It's like these – you know these moose can see you, but they're okay with it. Like they're still coming, you know. And it's a little bit – I don't know if it's just unnerving. I mean, I think Adam was a little scared. I was pretty tough about it. But it's unnerving. I think part of it is, I mean, obviously a pack of wolves can bring one of these down. But if you've got a giant bull – I don't know how old some of these bulls are that you're killing, Jarrett. But they've been around the block. And it's almost like they know not much can hurt them except for a total ambush with, you know, six or eight wolves or something. You know what I mean?

And there's just not a lot of fear in them. Like is bred into, you know, our deer and our elk down here that, you know, they're smaller, but there are also a lot more people around. These things just – they may be the first time he's ever been called in by a person. Every other call he's ever heard, right, would have been a live moose for the last six or eight years of his life. And this may be the first time. So he knows no different. Is that kind of how it might be? Oh, absolutely. I totally agree. Both those bulls you guys killed, they'd never seen or heard a person ever. And like I said, many times I've had to throw rocks or sticks at these bulls if they're coming in too close. You know, you've got your gear on and you're standing beside your horse or even in the boat. You know, we drive up to the lakeshore there and jump out of the boat and they come cruising right in to you.

They just – like I said, we're so fortunate. They have never had human interaction before and there's not many places left like that in the world today. So we're pretty spoiled up there. Gives us a little wiggle room where you guys hunt elk and mule deer down in the lower 48. I guess you've got to be a heck of a lot better hunters in what we do. Well, you know, as we're talking about all the different game up there, I was kind of thinking about our hunt up there with you. And there was a time we were up there. We had gotten out of the boat. We'd climbed up on this little mason. We're glassing. And anyway, we ended up glassing up this sow grizzly and her cubs. And, oh, it's pretty funny. I mean, it was kind of exciting. But keep in mind, it's getting dark, you know, and we're going to have to walk through where the sow and cubs are to get to our boat.

And, I mean, it was kind of a crazy experience. It was just a little bit unnerving. You know, videographer's nervous and wants to be sandwiched in between us. But there's just a ton of game up there. And that's what I think is really cool. You just never know what you're going to see. You know, I know Adam got into a lot of bear sign. And it was just kind of crazy. Absolutely. That's where I run on my normal hunter on a base fee, harvest fee system on all of my hunts. Because it gives the hunter the option. If you're on a sheep hunt and you see a really big moose or a caribou or a grizzly bear, you know, you have the option. It's pretty cheap to carry all the tags in your pocket. And it's just, you can decide, right? So, and same goes with the moose hunts too. You just never know what's going to step out. Our caribou rut happens at the same time as our moose rut.

So, it can make for a pretty interesting hunt and seeing some pretty neat critters. That's a good point to bring up, Jarrett. You know, we've paid you full price for the moose hunt. But whoever's the lucky winner this year in the end of this month will have the option to, you know, take a grizzly or a caribou on a trophy fee, kill fee basis while they're up there. So, very important point to point out. They don't have to pay for it unless they kill it, obviously. Which, you know, all going to be incidental. You never know when you're going to see a giant grizzly or an awesome caribou on your hunt up there. You just, like you said, you don't know what you're going to see. Nice to have tags in your pocket, you know. That's right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Wolves, too. Wolf, wolverine. Wolves are free. I only charge you if you miss.

So, you're going to have to take two wolves and sometimes you see quite a few of them. Yeah. So, what species do you prefer to hunt personally, Jarrett? Like, I mean, I know you're getting me fired up about moose again. But, I mean, I know, you know, of course we all have an immense amount of respect for sheep as well. But, just like, what do you prefer or is it more, you know, is it just a business and you're busy doing that? Or is it something like there's something you prefer to guide or hunt yourself? Boy, that's a really tough question, Jason. Obviously, I grew up hunting all the species up there. There's something about the sheep hunts when you get up top. But, it is the best feeling in the world, getting up top and you work for days and days to do it. I guess, you know, if I was forced, I'd have to say the sheep hunts are probably my favorite.

But, you know, when you call in a giant moose to 10 yards, too, that's exciting, you know. And, you know, or a grizzly bear, too. They can get the heart going pretty good, too. But, caribou are very unique in their own special way, too. You can mess with them and they might come running right up to you as well. But, the sheep hunts, I guess, you know, they have a pretty special place in my heart. That's what really got me the hunting bug was hunting sheep. So, because you have to work so hard for them. But, in saying that, too, you know, I've had a lot of guys, it is a very physical hunt. But, I've had a lot of guys, too, that it's more of a mental battle that had no business physically being up on that mountain. But, mentally, they've told themselves that, hey, I'm going to do this, you know.

Whereas, other guys that I think are very physically fit, but they don't have it mentally and they end up packing her in. You know, they just can't handle it. So, I guess, I'd have to say the sheep, whether it's stone or doll, it doesn't matter. But, being right up on top of those mountains really, really is a special place for me. The ability to do it. And, I know my days are limited. All of our bodies start falling apart eventually here. So, I'm going to enjoy that while I still can. What do you mean? You act like you've got a foot in the grave. Were you even 40 yet? No, we have 43, but, hey, those years of the hockey rink, man. Holy cow. Oh, that's right. That's like dog years, right? Yeah, that's what it feels like some morning. 43 going on 80.

10 years of hockey, that's aged 40 years is what you're trying to tell me. You're 70. That's about it. That's how it feels some days. So, yeah, I appreciate the fact I can still do it. Well, tell us, I know, you know, you guided for a lot of years in Northwest Territory. And, you know, for 15-plus maybe now in the Yukon and this area, you know, both prior to when you owned it and then after you owned it, you've got to have some crazy stories, either bears in camp or, you know, you've alluded to some of the bulls, you know, firing up your horses and the pack string and whatnot. What are some of the crazy stories that have happened to you up there? Crazy or unique or one of a kind or whatever you think. You've got a few of those for us. Yeah. Oh, boy, it happens yearly. You know, with our hunt, there are just so many uncontrollable factors that just, yeah, things can go sideways quickly.

But I guess bear stories, my closest call, I guess, would be one afternoon. Well, we'd had a bear in camp here a couple times. I'd be glassy or whatever, look over, and this bear would just kind of stroll through. And I thought it was pretty bold, eh? But two or three days into the hunt, I'd seen the bear three or four times. And, you know, the afternoons can be a little slow, so you may have a fiesta on the side of the hill there or whatever. And I had my horses with me as well. I could hear the bells ringing and everything. And so the hunter and I kind of taking her easy, and the sun was out, so not much going on. So you kind of close your eyes for a few minutes or whatever. But when I did that, I just remember I heard this heavy sniffing right in my ear. And I'm like, man, what the heck? This stupid horse is here. What's it doing? Well, it wasn't a horse, eh?

It's like, look, it was a grizzly bear, the same one that I've been messing with the last few days there. And, of course, my hunter did not want a grizzly bear. That's generally how it works. But I'll tell you, I jumped up. I did all the things you're not supposed to do. I ran. I probably screamed like a three-year-old little girl, too. But I couldn't find my gun. And thankfully, the bear was just curious. He could have got me very easily. But I think when I screamed like a little girl, I probably scared him more than me. And we both went separate directions. How close was he? Like, how close? A few feet? Are we talking? Oh, yeah, like six inches. Yeah. Yeah. This was tough. Oh, Jared. When you have a bear sniffing in your ear, man, let me tell you, that's something you don't forget. So I woke up pretty abruptly, too. So it would have made for some pretty entertaining video. Oh, yeah.

Well, I thought we might have a pretty good story, but I didn't expect that. Yeah. Well, for me, too, it was very satisfying. I went to that same area the next time we got that same bear. So I slept a lot easier after that. Yeah, we got it. So, yeah, I was very fortunate because it was just a little too bold, eh? Oh, yeah. Yeah. If it didn't happen then, it was maybe bound to happen in a week or two weeks or the next year or something. Possibly. Yeah. Never know. And there again, you always didn't know what I was or anything. I'm sure the first human. Yeah. But first human ear it's ever sniffed and thankfully the last one. So, anyway, it was pretty entertaining. Well, that's awesome. Well, I know, you know, I think when I came up and sheep hunted with you, didn't I end up in the very far north end of your area? You did, yes. Yeah, yeah.

And mostly for dull, I know you mostly have dull sheep up there, but, you know, I ended up shooting a ram and ended up being a, you know, kind of a light stone, a fan and ram, which basically kind of finished out my slam. It was, you know, the fourth of my species. So it's kind of cool to do that with you. Absolutely. We're seeing in my dull sheep areas, even in traditional dull sheep areas, even around the white horse, which predominantly been dull sheep, there's a little more color creeping in. And we saw that even when I was in the Northwest Territories in the 90s. There seems to be a little bit more color coming into the dull sheep areas. So we have killed another couple of rams since yours in that country that have had more black hair in them.

So it's interesting to see a bit of a change there, but they are such a unique, beautiful colored sheep, but you'll just, you'll never kill one the same color. And it's very unique to have that. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, that really does seem like, you know, over the 10 years, roughly or so, that we've really known you. I think, you know, not to back up too much, but it was, I think, about the year you actually bought the area, you contacted us. And we heard from you. And, you know, since then, we've seen a lot of different, you know, light colored rams, dark colored stone, and a little bit of every in between. You're right, a lot of your rams don't look the same. And that's really neat. I personally, I don't know, I love those lighter colored stone sheep, if you couldn't call them that. I think they're beautiful. Lighter face and streaks down the legs. They're beautiful.

Don't get me wrong, but black stone is beautiful in its own mind. And you want, you know, it goes back to the sheep thing. You kind of want, you want one of everything, because it's not only that animal, it's the places you get to go to chase them. It's the whole, you know, romantic part of sheep hunting. And it's really true. And so, I know, you know, from what I've seen up there, even though I was hunting moose the time I went up, just, I would glass every mountain up there. I'm like, I'm going to find a sheep here, Jared. He said he didn't know if there's any here. And I, hell, I didn't find one, but I sure looked the whole hunt for one. But anyway, and, you know, that, I really appreciate you spending some time with us about your area up there. It is an awesome place. And the winter of this hunt is going to have an awesome trip.

But tell us also, I mean, you do live in the winter months down here in the lower 48 in Kentucky. And I know that, I know you've gotten a little bit of a soft spot for mule deer like we do. And, you know, these mule deer can get addicting as well. And I know a couple of years ago, you killed a pretty special deer in Colorado. I know you've got a good friend of yours, Bob House, who lives, he's from Whitehorse as well, if I'm not mistaken. You guys grew up together. He guides for you there. But he lives in Colorado now. And you tend to, you and your dad come down and try to take maybe a trip or so a year with Bob. And maybe tell us a little bit about that buck, how good it was, and what you maybe like down the lower 48, or what's on your list down here to knock off in terms of species. Yeah, the deer makes me a little jealous. So let's talk about him for a minute.

Yeah, I got pretty lucky on that deal there. Yeah, this mule deer thing. Well, first I've got to say, when you start guiding and outfitting, your personal hunting stops. You know, I feel very fortunate. I, you know, I killed a doll sheep when I was 14 years old, the first legal year I was able in the Yukon. I was 14 years old at the time. It's now 12. But, you know, I've only killed one moose in my life when I was 14. I haven't killed one since, but I sure have packed out a lot of the buggers. So the last few years, you know, I have two young boys, and Bob does as well. And my dad's my best buddy because of hunting as well. So, you know, really want to get the boys involved with the hunting aspect. They obviously come into camp and help out there at the start of the season. But this mule deer thing, it kind of got me tore up. It's a heck of a lot of fun.

I didn't see what the big deal was until I went to the better view of Palano. I was very fortunate to obtain a tag and a pretty typical mule deer, super old buck. One of the guys we were with was probably a deer, no teeth left in.

But, you know, I was pretty lucky he hit the 200-inch mark. It was something that was – I was hoping, you know, just a good, respectable old, you know, a one-eating type class deer. I would have been over the moon. So this was way above and beyond my expectations. So I've been fortunate enough that I think I've done about four mules right now. And for me, you know, my kids were with me. That's huge. They were part of the hunt. I've got the photo of that deer here on my desk with me and my two boys. I think they were probably five and seven at the time. And we try and find a good hunt like that in the fall in November because my season's best. And we spend the winters in Kentucky here. We can usually get out west pretty easy one day and spend a week out there. And so I just hope to draw some pretty good tags there. It's been wonderful.

And I'm hoping to draw some more mule deer tags and maybe, again, some sheep as well. So I think I've got about 15 or 16 points in most westerns. Life is short, so go hunting when you get the opportunity. That's right. Well, we're glad to be helping you out do that. We realize you've got a unique schedule until about October 1st or, well, 15th, I guess, until you get everything buttoned up and put away up there before you can come down here. But that, you know, if you're a rifle hunter especially down here, that's when our deer and elk hunts, a lot of them open up. So you do have a bunch of points and maybe a desert sheep or something like that happens down here. Now, have you killed a stone sheep up there as well in addition to, you know, or is that that first one was a stone you said or was that a doll sheep when you were 14? No, a doll sheep when I was 14.

I was, I think I killed eight sheep in total, a whole five, all three stones. Oh, rub it in. Come on, three stones. I'm just kidding. I know, you don't feel very sorry for me. I know. I'm losing track. Is it 10 or 11? I don't remember. Yeah. That's pretty awesome. Over 20 years. So at some point in time, I'd like to go sheep hunting for myself. Yeah. No big deal for me is I, my oldest boy turns 12 next year. So I know first time in the season, I'll be dragging him up for a moose or something. So I won't be guiding sheep hunter, but I'm pretty excited to do that. Yeah. You bet. Well, guys like yourself that are super good hunters, you're going to do well wherever you live. And you're up there, you're expected to kill a bunch of good, good rams and everything else that walks. And if you live down here, you'd be knocking it dead down here. It's just your, your aggressive personality.

And of course you're in shape to do it and just, and just a great hunter. So anyway, just want to, as we wrap here, just tell you how much we appreciate you spending some time with us, talking about your area. And of course, we're, we're super proud to be giving away one of your hunts. You know, of course, we've got a lot of history, you and Adam and I, and, and known each other for a long period of time. And, and super proud of you for, you know, all you've accomplished these last decade or so. Well, thanks guys. I've been very, very fortunate. I've been able to surround myself with people that are a heck of a lot smuggler than I am and paying off for me. They're wonderful. You guys have been a huge supporter of mine since I, I, I first started and I will never forget that. And I told you guys this a bunch of times, if I can ever help out in any way, I'm on board.

Uh, I certainly really appreciate, uh, uh, your service on the, uh, tags that you guys put me in for. Uh, my schedule is nuts and, uh, you guys have been awesome. And I'm looking forward to drawing some, uh, big tags coming here and, uh, the office has been just wonderful. Uh, I look forward to, uh, continued, uh, relationship with you guys. And I can't thank you enough. It's awesome. Well, appreciate it too. Goes both ways, Jarrett. So thanks a lot. And hopefully we got good news for you or you get your own email here. It's a big next month or so with a bunch of draw results. So it's, it's the time of year we're waiting on and hopefully setting up plans for October, November, something special. I hope so. And I look forward to, um, talking with the, uh, the hunt winner here next Friday or Saturday, whenever you guys draw that.

Uh, I really enjoy taking those people out that win those type of hunts. It's, uh, could be a once in a lifetime experience for them and we'll do our best to make sure that, uh, they have a great time up in Yukon. Sounds great. Well, thanks Jarrett. Thanks Adam, everybody. We sure appreciate everybody that's been on the podcast today. And, uh, of course we appreciate Under Armour and their support with the Epic Outdoors and the podcasts that we do as, as well as some of the different projects that we're working on. So anyway, it's awesome to be able to bring good content to all of our members out there. We appreciate all your support as well, as well as the other advertisers in the Epic Outdoors magazine. So, okay. Till next time. We appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks Jarrett.