EP 184: Optic Technology and Making it Count

Whether uphill or downhill, the same angle has the same effect. The bullet doesn't have to travel as far to get to the animal. 5 degrees, 10 degrees, 15, 20, 25 degrees. And the distance gives you what to hold for, the hold value. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson coming at you from Southern Utah. Chris is here too, of course he's always here. Makes it sound good, and I about said look good, but how can you do that? I don't know. It's all audio. Anyway, we're just cranking through. We're here at the end of November. It's unbelievable. Can't believe we've already through another hunting season, Bronson. Almost done. Almost ready to be back writing, researching heavy, which is what we do and what we love. But it's always slightly bittersweet to be over. We're almost, in seven days, we'll be done. Let 2020 end. Huh? Bring it up. There's been some good things happen, right? Yes, but. There's been some bad things too. Huh? Like hunts that end in less than favorable ways. Hunts that don't even happen. Cancel. Yeah, I know. It's crazy.

There are a few things. We've had a couple archery openings come up for elk here at the last minute. So anyway, if you are looking for a few things, you never know. We might have something. Give us a try. Devin here at the office. He's working nonstop. And I would say the really good 2021 hunts, if you start thinking about them in April, May, June, you're five, six months late. There are some great archery elk hunts right now that we're about to fill up for September 2021 that are awesome hunts, awesome opportunities. You know, obviously mule deer are always a hot item. You can't find enough of them. No. They're elite for say 180 plus bucks. He just did a really great job. I got a new epic adventure for us. What if we do the high fence for muleys? Huh? What? High fence muleys. Sell them fast as we can make them. Huh? Come on, Carter. No. What have you had to drink this morning?

Just kidding. I do think it's, okay, so we're not a fan of necessarily high fence hunting. We like fair chase. Having said that, Bronson would be kind of addicting to have pet mule deer that are freaking giants. Huh? Tell me I'm wrong. No. Teach them. I don't have any. You don't have any desire to have a pet 300 inch or out the back window? I don't. Come on. I don't. I would feel bad. I would feel bad that he's got barb and mesh around him. Well, you give him all the does in the world. I know. Huh? Huh? No? They treat him like a cow. That's cows. That's cattle talk. Oh, Chris. You think cattle are sad that they're in bondage? No, but they're also not as sacred as a mule deer. Okay. We eat them and grind them, and I mean, they're meant to do one thing. Give us milk and meat. Okay. Okay. And mule deer? Meat and happiness. That's right. There's a lot more. Meat and happiness.

Not just milk and meat. I don't know. I've thought about it. It'd be kind of fun to play with genetics a little bit. I think the genetic part of it, I mean, just to see what you could do, but then when he's there standing there, what would you do to pet him? I know, but that's, no. That doesn't, no. Saddle. Put a saddle on there. No. Let Ashley ride him around. No. Huh? No. No. Put weight. What are you going to clamp weights? It's on the end of his main beams to have floater beams turned out. I might. In the velvet. How about the perfect mule deer? With frame, 220-inch frame, cheaters, inlines, double droppers, big eye guards. Ding in them. Just to see research. It'd be kind of interesting to see if you ding him. Ding his G2s. Does cheater start kicking off there? Yeah, right. Ding him with a nail. And have you ever wondered, like, how does the acorn come? Yeah.

When those points come up and then there's an acorn and then they kind of round out? Yeah. Like, how does that happen? To see what makes an antler grow. There'd be some interesting things, but you still then got to stare him in the eyes. He's looking at you like, what's for dinner? Where's a carrot? I don't know. Okay. And you're like, I know. I'm sorry. You know what I mean. I know. You respect a mule there so much. But we have cats and dogs. And then you got to look at one through the fence like, please let me out of here. I might get in there with him. Like, 300-incher? It'd be awesome. Knowing you, that'd be the way you'd go out in this life. What do you mean? He'd rush you to get an apple out of your hand and gore you through the lungs. It might. It might. I mean, on accident. But it'd be worth it. He'd run, ah, dad. He'd shove up that six-inch eye guard under your sternum.

Or maybe he's running. He's running. Yeah, pretty soon. It'd be a bad gig. No one knew that's probably how you'd leave this world. No, no, no, no, no. So let's change the subject. But holiday season, Thanksgiving time.

And that means one thing. Black Friday, Cyber Monday, and lots of food. That's right. Right? Yep. And sheep hunting. Sheep hunting. Elk hunting. There's some guys. Somebody told me last podcast that elk aren't meant to be hunted in late November. No. And that's where I'm going. And then you're going back. Okay. That's why I want 2020 to end. Because I'm not going to do it again. You're ending on the two. Well, I'm just thinking. I'm thinking, okay. I'm reminding myself. I was always taught when I was young. You hunt elk in September and deer in November. And I'm going to do that. We're going to do that. Bronson. Yeah. And deer, with the caveat of deer, if you can scout your deer, hunt them in August and September, too. If you've got units and tags within a close proximity or ability to scout, hunt them then. But everybody likes the rut for both. Yeah. Bugling bulls, rutting mule deer.

Does it get any better? No. No. Does not. No. So we need to do that. So you're going down with in-laws and out-laws. Yeah. Yep. My father-in-law's got a late elk tag. The brother-in-laws are going to come. The hyenas. The hyenas. It's a blast. It is. It's a fly on the wall. I would pay money around the campfires. It's money worth it. They are fun. I've been on a few of them with that hyena pack. And you get three or four brothers slash brother-in-laws. It's a lot of. A lot of fun. Posture. These are the best. I've been. You know how they've got these posts going out there on the web. You know. Thankful. Yeah. The thankful folk. Give thanks. You know. And it's that time of year. Thanksgiving. All these things. And of course. Bronson with our religion. That's a little. A push that's going on. And it is awesome. It's changed my attitude. I was angry. I was angry. You know.

You got the Democrats and their agenda. And all these kind of things. And of course. And I'm not going to make this into a political podcast. But I've been less angry. Yeah. I've been less angry. Just focus on the. Glass half full apart. And it is. Right. We do have a lot to be thankful for. Now. This 2020 hunting season was less than great. But I'm thankful I was able to partake in it. Yeah. Look. Chris. Yeah. I had some awesome trips. Yeah. I had some kids too. I mean. You can't ignore it all. You had some awesome trips. Awesome. My wife. Janice smashes a heavy old ancient buck. Awesome. Muley. It was. So. There's. Thankful for a lot of things. I didn't have to track them. She killed them. You know what I mean? Ashley. She smashed. I mean. It was awesome. Chris. You're thankful for a lot of things. Right? Yeah. Didn't freeze to death on my hunt. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's good. Yeah.

Of course your 2020 season could have ended just a little higher note. Maybe. Could have been a lot higher note. Just found out my white tail hunt canceled. Come on. COVID or what? Yeah. You can't travel? This is Kansas, right? The restrictions now. The new state restrictions. He just doesn't think it's going to happen. No interstate travel? Well. Just quarantines and all this crap. He's like. Hold the plug. Cut your losses and just. Come on. Are you grateful? No. Probably not for that. We want to end on a kill. Right. I wanted to. Yeah. I wanted to go. Yeah. But. Well. So anyway. I don't know where we're at in this. But we're talking about. Let's talk about Black Friday and Cyber Monday. Okay. We have state-of-the-art gear, Bronson. And so this is going to be quite a little subject here that we've been wanting to talk about. People are trained to look for sales right now.

This time of the year. That's, I guess, what we're talking about. In the world of trail cameras, which some of you might be saying, why do I need to buy trail cameras now? Well. Because they're cheaper. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. Right? Why do I need to buy optics now? My hunts are over with. That's right. Okay. The other thing is if you've perused catalogs or called people, there's been a lot of effect that COVID has had on optics in availability. You know, supply chain. A lot of these aren't all built, made all completely in the United States. They may be some of them assembled here, but they're not. Pieces and parts. Or they're completely outside the U.S. And some of these bigger factories have had, just like the auto industry and other things, the supply chains have been majorly disrupted. And you've dealing with weeks or months of back orders and availability.

So we have been very aggressive in ordering. Yeah. And we have stacks. That's right. Of product. That's right. And we get it in, and it almost leaves as fast as we get it in a lot of cases. Yeah. Having said that, you know, in our eight months or whatever it's been since we've been optics dealers, we've learned a lot, obviously, in a unique year. So whether next year or the year after is just like this. But the natural peaks have been in the summer period of time. But the other thing about it is we'll get people calling and buying stuff that we, you know, just because we have it. We have it. We had the foresight to just get stuff that's popular while we can get our hands on it and pass on a great deal. Call for the best pricing. That applies to black Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday. We have cyber. Every day. Black Friday sales. 365 days a year.

Probably could make an acronym of the cyber black epic. CB. How about CBS? No. What's that? Cyber black.

What's this? Sales. Cyber black sales. I don't know. I don't know. The message we're trying to get across is our everyday prices, 365, are incredible. They don't need to do some discount for one day or one three-day weekend. Trust us. If you're looking to buy optics, if you're looking to buy something for Christmas gifts for your wife, your husband, your kids, whoever, keep us in mind for it. Check with us before you just call or order something online. All right. So now that we've done the hard selling, let's talk about a little soft selling here. I want people to understand you have a range finder. You have a pair of binoculars. You have a rifle scope. You don't need another one. That's what you're thinking. But you need another one. And this is why. The gear has changed so much. We have angle compensating range finders. For example, I have a friend. He had a Leica range finder.

Didn't compensate for angle. Once in a lifetime hunt, miss, miss. Because of not taking into account the angle. The angle at 600 yards. The difference, I looked it up on my bullet app. The difference is 15 inches just for the angle. For that 600 yard shot with his dope there. That's right. That's the difference. Not including slight adjustment and elevation from where the gun was originally shot at. Temperature, humidity, things like that. So it could have been 18 inches. I don't know. But I'm just saying that right there was the difference between a hit and a miss. It just is. It's simple. You've seen it, Bronson. Sheep are either up or down. They're generally not level with you. Not as often. No. Absolutely need it in sheep hunting. And sometimes you're on the edge of a cliff and you've got open air between you and a ram at 500 yards and there's no getting closer. My desert in Utah.

Oh, that was 60-something degrees. Somebody's holding on to my ankles. I know people are laughing like, come on. Well, it's as close to vertical straight down a shooting as you can do without being vertical. And you've guided over 100 rams plus or minus. Have you ever seen a steeper shot? No. No, it wasn't. Because it was literally straight. It was peek over. He's straight below you. And then you've got to find a place where you can literally lean off and be safe enough to still shoot. And my buddy's holding on to my feet. Right? So it's just, what do you say? You were there, Chris? That was 2006. What did you think, Chris? Chris had to film it. I didn't really think about it in the moment because I just went up there and I put the camera on the ledge and filmed it. But then after, once the ram's dead, we start looking around and we're like, wow, this is not a good place to be.

I started shaking. I was a kid. You can't slow this down. This is 2007 or 2008. I don't know. And I don't think, we didn't have angle compensating stuff. But we knew the gist of it. Remember old Doug Leach had written an article from way back then. Well, we just knew the effect that whether uphill or downhill, the same angle has the same effect. A bullet doesn't have to travel as far to get to the animal with the angle. It doesn't have to. So while we're talking about that, I want to explain. There's a lot of people out there, you totally get what we're saying. There's some people that don't understand. When you think an uphill, it takes more energy to travel uphill. It takes more gas for a truck to drive uphill. And you would think with a bullet, you're going to have more drop angling uphill. And it's not the case. Bullets fall with gravity.

It's the distance, straight line distance to the ram. If you were to cut that mount and put that ram straight out in front of you, that's the distance to aim for. So with these angle compensating range finders, they're taking an angle. The way the bullet arcs, the trajectory of a bullet.

There's a lot to take into account. And so I used to have on my side of my rifle an angle chart. At 15, 10 degrees, 5 degrees, 10 degrees, 15, 20, 25 degrees. And the distance gives you what to hold for, the hold value. So I'd take an app on my phone. I'd look down my phone. Or set your phone on your barrel as it's lined up. And okay, that says 15 degrees. That's right. 15 degrees. Look on my chart. Aim for this. And it worked, right? It worked. What we're saying now is there are tools, range finders alone, standalone, or range finding binos that take care of that for you. And if you don't have one of those, or if you just have one that just does angle only, those are going to become, I'm not going to say obsolete forever, but they're being left behind. They are. With what new things can be added. With elevation. You shoot at sea level, which Jason, I've been to Hawaii.

I've been to Mexico. You've been to Mexico. For all intents and purposes, you're shooting at sea level. Yeah. Within 200 to 400 feet. If you come from 6,000 down to sea level, there is a difference. You are going to shoot low. Yeah. At sea level. It's a denser, thicker air down there versus, or flip it the other way, you know, you're going to go 8,000 to 10 or 12,000 feet. Right. It's thin air. Your bullet doesn't have as much resistance. You're going to air ball it over a deer or ram or whatever. Yep. And then you get into more subtle things like temperature, which extreme heat or extreme cold versus a 50 degree, or barometric pressure, or again, humidity and all those things can affect your bullet. These new tools, some of the range finding binos that we sell and the range finder alone, factor all of the environmental things in there. Angle being, in my opinion, the most important.

You absolutely need to have that. But when you can have everything, it just adds more precision when you have to dial your scope. In the west, you might live between, let's just say, 45 and 5,500 feet. Fairly common for the Intermountain West for people to live within that range. And then you go to Colorado, you're 90, 9,500. Okay. You're talking 35 to 4,000 feet. And then you start, if you're shooting at 200 yards, none of it matters. No. Top pin killer. Three or 400 may not matter. It's just, you start to get five, six, seven. Four, five, and six. You can see it on a chart. You can see the inches. Just look at it. Everything's magnitude. Just like you jerking the trigger. You jerk the trigger, it doesn't matter at 200 yards. It's not going to matter. No. You're probably going to smoke. Three to seven, eight inches. You jerk the trigger, it's 6,800.

You're three to four feet to the right. That's right. All right? It's the same principle. Everything gets magnified. And so the precision that all of these things now can calculate and lead to the precise estimation on your yardage or your mill or your MOA dial. So, and that's what I'm talking about. What do we put into a hunt? Application fees alone over the course of 10 to 20 years for a particular, let's call it a quote, once in a lifetime tag. Not necessarily once in a lifetime, but those type of opportunities that don't come in very often. And you air ball a couple of rounds. And let's face it, that could happen on a general season deer hunt. You might run into a 215 inch buck on a general season. It might be a once in a lifetime buck. Oh yeah. And it doesn't have to be on a Arizona strip hunt, which I think the tendency is if you

draw a really awesome tag, okay, I'll spend some money to upgrade some beer. And we probably to some extent do that too. You're thinking. You're thinking. Oh, I'm going to upgrade my boots if I'm going to go on a sheep hunt. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Your backpack or whatever else. But how many times do we talk to people? I mean, we talked to people this year that hunted third season deer in Colorado where they can buy an elk tag over the counter and shot a 375 or 387 by 7. 383. 383 over the counter. I know. But they're taking their kids on a deer hunt on a thousand or $1,500 landowner tag. And because kid tags for elk are a hundred bucks, right? I know. Instead of 600 and something for you and I, oh yeah, we'll buy our kids elk tags over the counter. Shoot. It's a 380 bull, seven by seven. Okay. How much would that 383 bull in Utah cost? You can't hardly buy an opportunity. Okay.

You can't hardly buy one. But if you had to buy a San Juan, a Pavant, a Boulder, you're paying 40. A, you might not kill a 388. And you're paying 40,000. B, for the opportunity. And so. And he got it for a hundred bucks. And that is a once in a lifetime. Let's say you had a 500 yard shot there and you had just a straight line range finder. And he's up a hill. I mean, you never know when a quote once in a lifetime opportunity can come on an average. Well, I remember. So my first big, big deer, 2003 Nevada. Okay. 460 yard shot. I'll never forget it. That probably seemed like a thousand. A thousand yards at the time. Okay. For all intents and purposes. I don't believe. Okay. This was back when long range was just starting to be understood. And a few guys like old Mark Thompson, who's still with us today, advertising. What an awesome guy. Probably getting going on.

Well, they're just, they're, they're just saying, okay, how do a, we understand, we understand it. B, the equipment hasn't caught up to what we understand. And then C, how do we teach people that they can do this and have a system that's reliable. And so this is right in that era. Well, I, I, uh, make a shot 460 longer than I should have. How did you do that? Just remind Kentucky, like just aim up. I just aimed up. Okay. Okay. Okay. And, and I worked a bullet from too low to into his chest. How many? A few. Okay. But I'm just, oh yeah. You didn't know that spotter. Well, I, I remember that, but I don't remember specifically. And you're by yourself. No spotter by myself. I worked my way up. Okay. But let me just tell you real quick.

It is weird to scream out in excitement by yourself. Yeah. After a deer dies. You mean? You turn around, there's nobody there. After a deer dies. So yeah. Yeah. So you, you know, take a friend. You want to enjoy some things, right? So anyway, but I'm just saying that is nothing nowadays. Same gun. And that's what I want to say too. Same, same caliber of gun. When we start talking about this, we're not trying to get everybody to spend 20 grand on gear. I don't really don't want you to take much. No. That's what I'm saying. I've got my, my kids have out of the box guns. I sent them away and got a break on them and got a nice trigger on them. Okay. Yeah. Spent very little. I spent $200 on top of an out of box gun. Yeah. Okay. To get a trigger. That's right. And then now I'm putting a Zeiss V4. With a turret on it. Yeah. Okay. The MOA turret. With a, with, with, with a Wazoo rangefinder.

Let's call it new age technology. I can do about anything I normally could do with, with my special guns. However, the special guns are unbelievable. And I will, I will use one as long as I can afford it. And, and, and I bought them already. And they'll last the rest of my life. You've got five of you in the family. Different kinds. Yeah. And you can, you know. Oh yeah. So, but I'm trying to set my kids up with. Gun that they can take. Take with them too. That they can have for the rest of their life. That's, as a dad, you're going, okay. 16th birthday, 17th, 18th birthday. A, you probably need a bow, muzzle, or rifle before you leave the house. Okay. That's what I, that's kind of what I like, like to give the kids. Well, you give them a rifle. I'm not buying, they're not getting a, they're not going to get a special, you know, built rifle or a custom rifle.

But an out of the box gun with a couple of mods. Just a couple of mods. And then at some point when they're on their own, they'll need the range fighter. Because right now it's yours and you're always going to be with them. Sean killed his own bull by himself at like 560 yards or 80 yards with an out of the box gun. And a very modest rifle scope that's capable of calculating. It's just math. Bullet drop is math. I've got a, I've got a drop. I've got a little bit of a spin drift depending how far it is, wind, whatever. And if you've got the right tools, you can knock it down. And he did. He killed it. And ethically. Yeah. I would say unethically. You walked that in. I took, I walked that into my big buck back in the day. That was everybody. And I didn't know it was unethical. I just thought it's 460. I kind of hear that number.

It should be seen very doable for a, I had a 300 Weatherby mag, not even an Ultramag, a Weatherby mag in a, you know, in a, a little pull three to nine probably. Well, no, not that, but not even that. But similar. Well. Fixed four? No. It might've been a 12 power. I don't know what the power was, but I can't even remember actually. I started hunting with a fixed four. Well, I did a Simmons eight, straight eight. Simmons. So in Aaron, love the straight six. Six power. Okay. I know. But I'm just saying you can take an out of the box gun, a couple little careful modifications, throw on a, and I throw Zeiss out there. It could be a Swaro. It could be a Vortex. I'm just saying, throw, throw something on there. The new age, it's not that expensive to buy a nice scope. And a lot of them have, you know, they're making, a lot of them have the quarter MOA clicks, but you needed a nickel to do that.

Now they're, a lot of them are just making a dial knob on it. But what are you going to dial to? So there's a couple of things. You can use an angle compensating range finder that doesn't spit out the MOA or MILRAD to dial to. And if you do that, you have a chart on the side for the average temperature, the average elevation of wherever you're hunting. You're going to Colorado, Chris. Say you go to unit 25 or whatever. Other than you were at 10,000 on that unit. Oh, yeah. But anyway, you pick a, pick a. 9,500 feet. 9,000 feet. 8,500 feet. You put that, say it's 50 degrees. You make a chart of what your gun would you would dial to, throw it on the side. You got an angle compensating range finder. If the only thing the range finder does is compensate angle, you're going to be pretty deadly. Now the speed is kind of nice. And the new age technology, I'm all about these crazy range finders.

They calculate angle. They calculate temperature, humidity. You hit it. You hit it. And it just says dial at 13.2. 13.2 deadly. Haven't missed. I'm just saying same thing with my kids. Ashley, dial. She kills it. And ethically, that's what's crazy about this stuff. So we're just saying sometimes some of you guys out there were preaching to the choir. Other guys, you know, from back east or even around here, it just gives you something to think about. Upgrade a gear. You don't have to upgrade all your gear. Brownson. You don't need to. No. You don't need to upgrade your spot and scope, your binos, and do a backpack, range finder, rifle, the rifle scope, everything all at Christmas time of the one year. Spread it out. But. Yeah. But be thinking ahead. And if you have had any experiences we've talked about, you know, for everybody's hunting crew, you have some that makes you upgrade.

I never want to have to think about, you know, oh, I need to change my drop chart that I tape onto my stock from 55 to 9,000. I never want to have to have 14 different ones that I look at. That thing will range through the curvature of my front windshield. A lot of times it does. Yeah. Or in a snowstorm. Like you get a little bit of, little light snow, it'll still range through a lot of that. 2,400 ABS. We got them on the shelf. They've come a long ways from this. Chris, do you love it? I do. They're awesome. You just have a lot more confidence. And they're not as hard. Confidence is a good word. The one I had before, you had to have a chip and you had to put the chip in and download all your information to it. And I thought that it had the capability to compensate. Turns out after asking a bunch of people, it doesn't. And it's just nice to have the app.

You can put all your information in. It's simple. No, it's Bluetooth into your phone. Yeah. Okay. Some of this does seem foreign. Have your kids help you. Well, you can learn it. I learned it this year. It is not as complicated as it sounds. We can help you. We can visit with you over the phone, too. Yeah. Especially if you're looking to upgrade rifle scope with a range-finding pair, I guess. Call us. And you got some like the Leica. Like the Conquest 10x42 range-finder binos that have range-finding bino with all the Bluetooth compatibility and loading. You're talking about the Victory RFs. Victory, sorry. Yes. Yes. Not Conquest. Victory RFs. They're unbelievable. They're amazing. 3200.coms are. There's more in the works that we'll see, I'm sure. There always is. As technology catches up. Vortex has them. Vortex has got them. Even the Vortex 4000. It's a great range-finder.

We keep quite a few of those in stock. They're very popular. We got the Sig Sauer range-finders. They're pretty amazing. So, anyway. Yep. And then just regular optics. Bino, spotters, you know, anything like that. Rifle scopes. Keep us in mind. We got these dealerships to help the hunters that we're already talking with. And we use this stuff ourselves and have a lot of experience within the office to be able to match an application that you're trying to do, whether it's a lightweight backpack type sheep rifle or an all-around western rifle for deer, elk, antelope, everything. Give us a call. Black every day. How's that? Black sales every day. We got Black Friday, Cyber Mondays, and any other sale in between. Doesn't matter what holiday it is. Of course, we're always having a party here. Huh? Pretty much. Huh? Yep. No work. Last half full. Just be grateful.

So we're super excited, actually, for another year. It's crazy. Here we got a season ending. We're looking at our own gear. Dude, I ordered some stuff today. I ordered stuff yesterday. Oh, yeah. You want to share with what? No. Because maybe I need it. Usually we do stuff like that. Like if I see, I buy something you don't have or you think you need, you buy it. Well, trucking pulls. I mean, okay. I broke two of mine this year. I know. Yeah, I need two. And I'm just sitting, you're out there and you're like, you know, we just, okay. Is it less manly to use two trucking pulls versus one, Bronson? No, I just personally. I like one. I like one. I don't know why. My dad and others like two. I just, I like one. Some people don't like one. They think it's not manly. I'm over that. I got to have a hand on my gun. You're using your gun as a trucking pull? No. Just when your hand or something.

Oh, so you do one trucking pull and a hand on your. You got to hold your rifle on because I've seen rifles pop off, climb up cliffs and stuff. Yeah. I just, it's personal. I like one. I don't, they come in pairs and I have, I have a backup, I guess, because I use one. I'm going to upgrade to that. The new QU Bino harness, I like it. It's awesome. Yeah. I'm actually, you know, I'm not using the straps that attach to the Bino itself. Um, so, but I'm using the full on pouch and everything else. I just, I do like, I put it on a tripod a lot, even 10s, 12s. I'm using the 12s. Yeah. And you, if you don't. I like it away from my Bino harness. Yeah. And then you don't have the. You don't have to take it off. The little, uh. Clips. Clips on your thing dangling in your face when you're up there. But they're super smart. They put them so they're detachable clips, super easy.

I just don't even want to detach the clips. So I just, but I get to choose what a great Bino harness keeps out all the dust, rain, leaves, sticks, branches. I mean, uh, that doesn't have the, the old Badlands always had the magnets. I love it. It's hard to break away from that. It was hard to actually, have you ever found where it's hard to move out of a Bino harness into a new Bino harness or even out of an old backpack into a new backpack? When you use them a hundred days a year, you get attached to them. Like this bucket has this, this bucket has this. I used one for, remember I probably packed out 40 sheep. I can't, I remember who I got it from. You remember who I got it from? Yeah, I remember. It was just personal. But it was a great deal. And I just like. But they're great, dude. Telling you that backpack, that was actually a mystery wrench. And they, they made great packs.

They were just a little on the heavy side back then. That's all. It's just. But they were indestructible. Yep. And I still use it when I just need to. Me holler. If you get back to your truck and I'm going back only for another quarter. Right. I have that. Yeah. Or the cab or something like that. Yeah. The QU packs are just lighter. Yeah. You save three to four pounds and just material. Okay. On your back. And my kid goes three to four pounds, dad, really? And I'm thinking, yeah, you're a kid. And I used to say that too. Yeah. Leave me alone. That's three days of food if you're going backpacking. Leave me alone or I'm going to start talking about some things that might be sensitive to you. A mess or two. So anyway. No. So we're every. I'm looking at my gear going, what is it that I need? What do I, what am I looking to upgrade? And by the way, Jana, what do I need for Christmas?

And y'all, there might be some women listening to this podcast. I've helped several wives buy their husband's gear. Husbands, have them call Epic here. Adam and I will freaking hook them up and tell them what you need if you kind of indicate to them what you need. We'll steer you right. If you look at the, in fact, if you look at the December mag, EMags live and online for December. And John did a little clever, you know, Christmas list thing in the one ad and the optics ad there. You can hint, hint. Gave a little blank space if you want to write down a few things there and hand it to somebody. Hand it to her or whatever. A friend or a kid or whatever. Have them call us. We'll definitely treat them right. And, you know, make sure they're ordering the right gear. Sometimes there's a different model or this or that.

And we're pretty privy to that kind of stuff because we deal in it every single day. And we love it. So, other than that, can't think of anything else, Bronson. I mean, this is basically just talking about Christmas. We're at the end of the season. We've got gear on our minds. We're also looking at hunting opportunities. What we're going to do with our personal schedules, making new plans. There's guys out there that want us to help them apply. Now is the time to call in, write in, email in, fax in, whatever. Of course, facsimile. Can you – does anybody even fax? These kids – There's a couple people I'm shocked every year that they ask. Chris, have you ever sent a fax? I have. Okay, you're an old millennial. It's been a while, though. You're an old millennial. Yeah. All right. Well, anyway. All right. We appreciate you guys. We appreciate all the support out there.

Hope you have a great Thanksgiving, moving into the other holiday seasons, Christmas and everything else. We'll be here pretty much back in the office full time here within about another week. So you're – we're here, good to go, answer questions, working on the January mag here really quick. It's going to start happening fast. That's a little bit what we're here to just kind of tee it up for when you're ready. Give us a call about whatever it is, Western Big Game, honey. Anybody hunting those late seasons, good luck to you all. We're looking for photos, stories. You can hit us. We like to see them personally. But anyway, photos at epicoutdoors.com or Jason or Adam at epicoutdoors.com. We like to see your successes and hear the reports. And anyway, best of luck to you late rifle elk hunters, late rifle deer hunters, sheep hunters.

There's some archery elk coming on – or excuse me, archery deer over the counter down there in Arizona. Yeah. Sheep. Sheep hunting for Arizona December 1, usually a big day, the whole month of December. A lot of our friends. Nevada sheep's going on right now, but a few other states as well. But I encourage you to let us know how you do. Share with us your success. And anyway, look forward to hearing from you. So here's to the end of 2020, and here's to the beginning of 2021.