EP 186: You Don't Know What You've Got Until It's Gone.

Wyoming general for the residents of Wyoming is that going to be a forever thing you just don't know what you got to what's gone Idaho made the step this year to make the non-residents go to a draw anything to do with western big game welcome to the epic outdoors podcast powered by under armor hey everybody Jason Carter Adam Bronson we got the boys in here too how you guys doing not bad good Devin Archibald Wyatt Bowles Chris Peterson John's busy putting together the magazine for who knows what he's doing we're taking an hour break he's he's had yeah he's had some things going on he's cranking hard John works hours I don't know he works midnight to 4 a.m. he's a night owl to 4 p.m. or 8 p.m. we're morning dudes whatever those are called yeah early birds I don't know but we just the way sometimes we're middle birds Jason I and probably you and Devin and Wyatt too I can get up

early early and come to work but when it gets in the winter 5 6 I'm I'm done oh John comes alive about then till about 3 in the morning goes to bed I just don't operate that way I was trying to go to bed at 9 last night and that's pretty regular you guys are you guys 9 o'clock yet because you're married but I don't know if you've actually made the switch to what married dudes do yeah I'm 9 o'clock 9 10 but Devin from what you told us he's he's already been on the old man's schedule before marriage right yeah I think we both kind of got on it for a little bit we're in the bachelor pad there you know there's a lot going on I mean I pull out of bed at 8 30 who would tuck who in when you guys were at the bachelor who went to bed first and the winter months are terrible right when the daylight saving hits and it's dark at 6 it's bad and then you think what you're doing at 8 o'clock

in September oh you're still never gets dark you're just starting to get glass and good glass and white it's unbelievable 8 30 rolls around I'm bed down oh 9 o'clock tapped out but we're also coming in early so all right well it's that time of year we did want to do a little podcast about the theme of the day that's right about a subject that is near and dear to our hearts as we're watching things change hold on Archibald's driving down main right now if you find yourself swaying side to side slowly you're not alone every other 40 to 50 year old dudes doing the same thing maybe you're the guy that just leaned up and held the walls up at high school dance you just leaned up against the wall that'd be me me too guilty I was there too I'm hitting the KB about right now Wyatt he's holding up the parking lot down there I'm in an 84 Toyota what are you in Wyatt oh power stroke 76 CJ7

oh you guys you guys were the cool kids I was in a hatchback I did have a 22 250 in the window we had a turbo sprint wow well what's this song have to do with hunting Carter well you don't know what until you you just don't know what you got until it's gone you just don't know what you got until it's gone well that's what it has to do with hunting let's see where this goes that's right we were just talking Bronson and of course Devin and Wyatt they were around for a lot of this too and we were talking the other day about all the different changes we've been seeing since 80s, 90s, 2000s I mean 2020 yeah even in the last five years going away and there you go Arizona Trail Camerons are looming in the near future perhaps Nevada having a trail cam season there's all kinds of just awesome things that we've seen over the course of time and then we think about things like

that are going on right now I don't know what's next what about unlimited sheep in Montana you know things like that Wyoming general for the residents of Wyoming is that going to be a forever thing so I just wanted to yeah let's just talk about a few things like you guys remember I mean general over the counter Utah because it's our home state yeah at least Jason and I I don't know what it was when you guys started but when we had dedicated hunter tags before they're dedicated hunter tags you bought a tag at the grocery store good statewide and you could hunt archery if you didn't kill you could hunt the rifle if you didn't kill then the muzzleloader member was late in early November you gotta kill one deer statewide yeah we didn't have to pick a region until 92, 93 right 92, 93 they went to the five regions in Utah and went to a draw roughly 20,000 tags per region roughly

and that winter kill of 92, 93 oh yeah I mean you know but just prior to that it was unbelievable yeah and you know we weren't that I guess I wasn't that picky but I mean it was just nice that you knew you you could hunt 28 day archery season a 9 day rifle and like a 9 day late muzzle the one now those those muzzleloader hunts are limited entry hunts in Utah now in all the generals taking 15 points 16 points yeah those same hunts right now in all the generals we had them over the counter as part of your general tag you could do the archery the rifle and that hunt yeah and then there was a time with the dedicated hunter that you when you drew poncegant you could hunt all three seasons yeah if you drew the poncegant or henry's and it even played to elk didn't it it did yeah my dad drew his elk tag in Utah he was able to hunt archery rifle and muzzleloader but just overlap the deer seasons

yeah early on it was really weird when Utah expanded their elk herds and all that and they were started off with 5 tags 10 tags here they didn't have 2 tags for archery 5 for rifle and 2 for muzzleloader it was just rifle tags in the rut that was the only hunt for years and so if you wanted to hunt during the archery deer season because there wasn't an archery elk you just paid what 20 bucks yeah something like that minimal fee and you get to hunt the archery hunt during the deer hunt because you're oh yeah you're out there on the mountain you got a deer tag hunt your elk then too if you don't kill you you get the rifle hunt it was nuts it was nuts dedicated hunter elk type tags you get on all seasons now that's called a premium or multi-season tag and they draw 1 or 2 or 3 per unit and it's like 20 plus points 20 plus on every unit but you gotta do it I mean you've gotta do it

because we keep seeing the quality diminish and part of that is A tag numbers but we're good at killing them we're good at killing them we just had a podcast on optics and smart optics and angle range finders and long range rifles and turrets and reticles and all of these things are attributing to this smart trail cameras cellular trail cameras you know all kinds of stuff people are getting good at killing them and they're spending time I don't know if this COVID environment is going but people have time they have time to go out and run their cameras they have time to scout there was guys I talked to a guy about Idaho General Deer and he's like you know normally I see like 2 or 3 guys in the field I saw 25 guys in the field and he says I know they didn't give necessarily any more tags it was just everybody utilized those tags everybody went you know what I mean I mean

well maybe that's what led to some of the changes we're talking about now now you've got non-resident sub-quotas within the greater total non-resident you know general tag that used to be done statewide except for limited entry units until this year and it's that's gone it's probably not going to come back and it's got people gnashing teeth pretty hard so what about like there was over the counter Arizona strip archery tags 13A up until 2007 we're not talking that that dude still haunts you yeah I remember when I found I didn't even know that but in 2007 I was 18 but yeah well that's not that long ago no and the Kaibab and 13A 13B wasn't but 13A 13A and the Kaibab you could every year $125 non-permit tag or whatever they're called just like the ones they sell now you still hunt all of the central and southern Arizona it's the same just the same general deer tag non-permit deer tag

and you could hunt up there in August over the counter Clint and I went out there in his rotten old Chevy 92 Chevy you remember you know those hinged that go down through the door jams and I mean those are rotten and falling out and they all need new bushings even the new ones needed new bushings and anyway we went out there and tried to do our best at it of course back then archery equipment was whatever you could find and we're broke and I mean and we didn't you didn't know you didn't value it like if if you would have said hey this tag here takes 20 points you would have valued it you would have put everything into it but when you can get it every year let's just go do a smash and grab for a week go for the weekend yeah I think that's the whole thing why we're even talking about this in a podcast because you're right and to a large extent look at the Utah General now after 25 years

we'll just say it of draw you went to a subunit thing maybe 10 years ago where it's unit by unit but it takes points now you don't get one every year for the most part and if you really value that which a lot of people do they put a lot more time into that they do and the guys that really treat it like a good good tag they've they've killed some great bucks there's something to be had for them but when you could buy it at Walmart and hunt for a dedicated hunter we talk about this about the dedicated hunter program it sometimes occurs because I got you know I got 60 days to hunt you know I'm not going to get that serious but when you got it when you draw a 5 day rifle hunt or a 9 day rifle hunt and that's all you got it's like you got tunnel vision a little bit more and you're not going to get it for the next 2 years most likely you're going to hunt every single day well there was a tag

and I remember I remember it vividly there was a 241 landowner tag come up for sale and nobody knew anything about it it sold for like 3200 bucks and nobody I knew wanted it nobody I knew wanted it 15 years ago maybe roughly yeah oh yeah no I mean early 2000s now that's more valuable than a 242 tag really I mean a 241 only tag is 27.5 you know so it's just I'm just saying and back then there was real deer back then there was real deer we're not fighting for 200s there's real deer and in the 240s you could hunt until mid to late November on the rifle the season dates I can't stand to think about the season dates I can't stand it I can't stand it can you think about it I mean they used to let you hunt Thanksgiving in Utah Nevada lots of places and you're just like man now we're cutting them off in October October 31st is when it ends you know what I mean and they're just starting to rut

a little bit it's just crazy crazy to to think about some of the change we've seen not only dollar dollar wise but Jen not only these tags selling for 20, 30, 40,000 Poncecon tags 30, 40 plus thousand which also has a neighboring general deer unit that's off the charts right well just look at Boulder, Penguin, Zion all three sides of the Ponce I mean kill a lot of pretty good deer on them every year I mean there's a lot of hunters we don't want to minimize it they're still general season units you see a lot of people but big deer to be had on those three that's where Archibald took down his Poncecon legend oh yeah what story he walked a little too far I guess well yeah Poncecon buck that migrates to Zion you know got smoked and I'll bet you when I shot that buck it's one of my office oh that one in there 6x6 yep no kidding what did that thing go like 203 just over 2 dump that deer

oh but I could have counted 20 people from where I shot him stand up look around you could see 20 people easy like way out there you know but yeah I mean orange everywhere was this back in the day of the 10x50 redfields this isn't that long 2017 oh I didn't know that you killed that buck that recently yeah dude I learn everything from a podcast the guys had hunted him on the archery hunt for in the Ponce right multiple years he took an arrow the year I killed him and the year before oh no kidding in his backstrap show no kidding how did you know was there scarring I had no idea or they came to you and said hey I got a arrow in that deer yeah I killed him and I think it was Cameron or you Wyatt told me hey that bucks somebody contacted you we'd seen it in the summertime it was pretty popular deer a lot of people had been hunting it and chasing it around so as soon as he shot it

did you know immediately pretty much yeah as soon as we got the picture sent over to us yeah I come to find out had liked the photo of the deer on Instagram the velvet the year before had no idea I killed him the next year really wow a couple of the photographers over there were taking some really good shots of him yeah I mean we're talking 50-60 miles so that's cool that's kind of neat awesome story that is awesome so tell us about the kill scene there I was crosshairs with orange and every portion of my reticle you talk about angle I had a 26 I had a 26 degree angle no kidding and I had I had the geovids and just boom 500 and I dialed to like 420 440 yeah that was it that was it no problem no problem you didn't have to have a foot race there somebody else tagging nobody else shot nope just glassed him up and I think I mean it I think I actually filmed it I hit record because I was alone

I wanted to know where I hit and everything and it was like two and a half minutes before I shot getting ready dialing you know all that was he bedded or moving just feeding oh wow just hiding by himself you remember when Ponce got landowner tags were 5 to 7 that was that was early 2000s because I was a biologist there and I was dealing with them on a daily basis and we went through a process between 2003 and 5 of cutting tags yeah and it was a it was a bloodbath yeah I mean it was between the locals landowners well just landowners you're talking about going from 40 posted hunting units that are now CWMU CWMU and landowner association was getting 30 to 40 tags and we'd cut the public tags in half you know there's a group called the Friends of the Ponce and Gant that formed and they were just very adamant we just we're killing too many we want we want to issue less tags well when you cut

the public draw tags the landowner tags are a year behind in the permit sitting cycle so then when you start going through that boy I mean you're talking 5 or 6 grand a tag at times you know 40 Lyle my cousin buy one every single year he had muzzleloader rut hunt that's another thing that's gone muzzleloader rut hunt it was unbelievable that would be fun it was the first week or sometimes 10 days where the calendar went this is say October 30 31st to November 7th to 10th it was unbelievable so yeah we went through that cutting tags and then it wasn't long that once you just supply and demand once the tags got cut in half and over the next handful of years quality did start to improve and it wasn't long that those tags had doubled and tripled in price and quadrupled and now they're almost 10 times like we're talking $40,000 pond scot tags I mean there's 20 20ish 20 to 30 but Adam the cost

of living goes up 3% a year but that's only been 15 years nothing can catch upon the price increase of what big deer bring nothing nothing that's exponential well I just think there's been a lot of that kind of stuff that we've watched come and go and we're and we know I used to have a good friend tell me he says the best tag you ever have in your life comes into your mailbox every year and he was talking about Utah General yeah we've had lifetime licenses !

even back in the day when they basically were coming in your mailbox you know well I just remember I wasn't living in Utah then I was on a LDS mission my dad wrote me a letter and it's like a week or 10 day lag getting the letter and then a week or 10 day lag getting it back and he wrote me and says hey they're going to stop selling Utah lifetime licenses do you want me to take some money out of your savings and buy it and they're 500 bucks yeah they're 500 bucks and I just remember yeah but I remembered it was like I got it and it was like in four days it was going to be over and I'm like I hope he does it because I can't write him a letter and get it back there was no pick up the phone there's no Skype there's no text there's no nothing this is early 90s and thankfully he did it because I got home and I had a lifetime license for me and Aaron and him 500 and there was a little interest

accruing while you were gone I don't know but I mean at the time it was kind of a big decision I mean 500 and you could buy I mean a deer tag was probably 15 bucks I don't remember if you remember back then the reason to buy it was a cost savings over your life nobody ever thought that general tags would go away so do I buy a lifetime well they're not ever going to go away they're only 15 or 20 and they're never going to go away look at the cost of Idaho tags that guys like my dad regrets not buying a lifetime license but just in price alone but someday those are all going away well what do you do with the lifetime well you give them their choice for the rest of their life and that's what they're doing now it's invaluable times change and you've got to take advantage of what's in front of you what's right on the plate eat what's in front of you how about just put something good

in front of another one I thought of is like when I was a kid we any bull unit we just we would go to Walmart hop in the truck and go we did that because it's private property and now it's CWMU's and guys that's right CWMU's the LaSalle's private ground period all over the west now they're leased they're different units it's gone I know I scared a lot of bulls on the LaSalle's offhand I'd just see them and just pull up offhand I mean okay so LaSalle's is near and dear to my heart this big I mean any bull was good I remember my dad shot some spikes he shot a five point one year probably a three year old maybe four but a nice five but Aaron and I had it mounted in our bedroom and my whole life we looked at that it was so it was so sometimes a five by six won the big bull contest in Moab yes I mean that's that's what happened yeah those were back in the human trail camera days I was a

human trail camera yeah and I sat in a lot of aspen trees and do you remember what okay so speaking of which harnesses have come a long ways too we had an inch and a half strap sometimes just a white little rope around your waist if you fell you turn upside down you're swinging in those aspens you're swinging in them I mean geez and so yeah I spent a lot of time in a tree stand a lot of time yeah that's right archer logging game you know now Utah went through a pretty hotly contested I don't know what you'd call it public process there you know we've capped the general tags I can't remember 15 20 thousand in Utah for any bull and the division was going to add a few more any bull units where there's not really that many elk and they were proposing going to unlimited and the public shot it down they wanted to keep the quote in place and we went from the days where Boulder Boulder used

to be a general Boulder used to be a general so did LaSalle I don't know all of them it was like San Juan Pavant and Southwest Desert were kind of getting through San Juan had newly elk in the 88 1987 88 they turned them loose from Harder Ranch so it was never it was never anything but a limited entry but there's a lot of our limited entry units in Utah I would imagine like Fish Lake and Manti I know Dutton was Dutton was the general season bull and there wasn't big bulls like we think no it's not it was just elk right but back then you could get an elk tag now it's pretty hard elk tags

they have some general season stuff nice to have some quality stuff here and there it is I got one for you so how about Colorado in the 90s was over the counter deer hunts over the counter on the west side and see the only thing anybody ever talked about was eastern plains the only thing because it was over the counter when you statewide probably west of I-25 was probably the line because that's kind of the line now on the season structure stuff but I you grew up in Moab you're 20 miles from Colorado as a crow flies an hour to drive I'm 15 or 20 and I had some friends that lived over or had property over there groundhog and all that you know 7-1 7-11 and we would hunt bulls over there over the counter on their property like junior senior high school would go over there wake up smash over there load up two or three bulls in one morning drive home like it was nothing like but it was

that was where I killed my first elk they're just rag 5s but it was it was awesome didn't even ever think of buying a deer tag I could have bought one over the counter because deer were what we had in Utah it goes back to this I have a lot of deer in Utah why would I go to Colorado I don't shoot a deer I got good bucks on the San Juan right here I don't have elk I got big bulls they turned loose eight years ago I'm going to shoot anything I see over there and now look at how that's turned we're fighting to go to Colorado Colorado revolves how many people's plans revolve around Colorado deer every year and they did bring the deer back when they when they limited it they did bring the deer back it was crazy and back then in 1996 it was an extreme drought and I remember drawing you know 142 out on the eastern plains it was a public land eastern plains hunt and it still is to this day

but it was one of the very few places that you could go that had big deer and so you'd go out there and hunt on an army base pinion canyon army base with they told you where to camp and all of these kind of restrictions and anyway nobody even applied for there wasn't enough places to intrigue you to apply for pinion canyon a couple of those I mean you did you and your dad were doing that probably before we did that but very many people but it wasn't until the late 90s early 2000s you wouldn't stop you would hit I-70 you would never stop for deer until you got to denver I mean you're not stopping or you know we went up through trinidad there's a whole long story behind those that trip is that the one that was blizzard and they put the gates down and you drove around them on the freeway they're closing the freeways down you had an old rancher well it was an old rancher he was like

I'll go if you go and I'm like let's go but everybody had the schools open and everybody was you know getting off of 25 and going into these small little communities and shacking up in the gyms I mean because it was such a giant snowstorm but no this is back when I had an old 89 Chev that was wore out before I even got it and I changed the ball joints in the parking lot in Trinidad broken glass everywhere and I'm under there just cranking it I mean guys like we can't I ate a tire up just getting there just because everything was so loose and they couldn't they they couldn't what do you call it they couldn't couldn't kick you out no what do you call it you freaking align them you couldn't align them no not with ball joints no not with everything so anyway I replaced some parts and an alternator went out and I was out in the hills and had to go get an alternator and replace it in the hills

yeah it was just one of those college kid days where I had you know wasted 14 15 points on a wazoo unit and seen a 210 incher and never got it killed because I was a kid you know big old headline I can still see the so anyway lots of change just crazy amount of change and so everybody we're seeing more non-resident limitations on stuff in Wyoming you know G and H and they want more quality and so they keep cutting non-resident tags and trying to continue to let residents hunt over the counter and that's going to end too residents that's going to end I mean we're not we're not anti-Wyoming residents we're just bringing it up as a that's one of the last holdouts I mean they're in Idaho Idaho made the step this year to make the non-residents go to a draw sub quote a draw we'll call it I mean and it'll never go back it just won't and everybody jumps in and might as well be a draw

might as well be a draw and you know you got remember back in the well it was still this some of this stuff isn't very long ago the early 2000s mid 2002 to five or six that AR301 in Utah oh yeah how many is it 15 or 20 limited entry units and there wasn't points associated with it so if you chose to do that you didn't get elk points yeah like in Utah's residents we still have to choose between deer or elk or antelope you got to choose one species but if you were I was locked into my elk chase you were probably the time because you were a couple years ahead of me you burned yours so if you did limited entry elk you couldn't put in for AR301 but guys that were applying for deer could just crush the AR301 every year that was an elk and no points and you could hunt the archery season and hunt 15 or 20 the boulder dutton all these units they were halfway decent even though they weren't managed

like they are now they were still halfway decent quite enough time since the any bull days to really get giant bulls but they were starting early 2000s I think I still got regulations from those days I want to say 2 to 5 earlier than the glory days for elk in Utah really no right after that ended right after that ended and they kind of started doing the drawing the tag and then they added archery only on the unit and that's that's when it peaked what I think's crazy is when you go through these times like say the amazing times in Utah for elk did you ever think that end no ever 2004 5 6 7 did you ever think I mean wow we're rewriting the record we got so numb like a 370 or 80 bull we can't even get Wyatt off center because he's put his hands on so many clients giants tell us about now he's a Boone and Crockett score so he still gets to glean the best of the best every year he gets to hold

them from Utah and neighboring states why would I want to go to Nevada they only have 380 bulls no it's not like that at all 380 is always a giant bull but Utah was we were spoiled here for a while I mean it was producing double digit 400 plus inch bulls a year and now it seems like if we see 1 2 yeah 2 3 4 a year it's a great year well and it was a great year at 3 and 4 yeah well it is this year great right there was times they would kill 6 7 400 plus on one unit yeah exactly just line up nuts you're hunting 400 bulls and just everything else is 390 380 whatever it's it was awesome so that's what we've seen with Colorado when mid Bronson mid 2000s we're over there hunting Colorado it's unbelievable you think those days will never end now we're looking at late season dates with coming on the heels of some of the couple of the worst seasons we've ever seen and no tag numbers change

other than maybe even increasing tags because they're afraid of CWD and so they're increasing tags to even knock the age down a little bit more perfect example and now late season dates when Colorado went to a draw late 90s by 2003 or 2004 was my first year hunting maybe about you 3 or 4 and we thought what where has this been why have I not heard of this it was the first year I went there it was a giant snow you remember that October year 2004 I mean it dumped 3 or 4 feet here in Utah unbelievable and I get over there and I'm hunting 43 and it has 14ers all over the place well the deer they can't 14ers mean 14,000 foot peaks and I've never seen anything to this day a deer hunt like that and you killed 33 30 inch 200 inch plus buck I mean but I saw deer as good or bigger I did some of were in the fields already because there was snow everywhere and you just thought this is going to change

my life I remember I was 30 years old that year roughly

and you know that just does but the next year the season dates kicked a week later and we were drawn tags those tags as second choice remember the landowner tags what were they 200 to 300 400 bucks oh yeah we'd have stacks of landowner tags like literally that deep because you could transfer them back then they could apply for leftover and get a pile of them they were cheap we had a lot of

six days later like it does in Colorado we thought this and it we hunted seven days the last seven and I shot like a 25 or six inch heavy tall four by three and that was the only buck we saw warm hot dry the whole time that's when I realized dates don't mean everything in Colorado the weather weather trumps dates and but then to fast forward it all till 2020

and maybe trying to go back it's just not the same in 2020 it's not as well and now we're giving more and more tags later season dates why don't we just go over the counter crash it again and then we'll recycle it and then that cycle will come back I

we're talking 2000s I mean you had some winners mixed in there but there's always going to be heavy winners and there's going to be opportunities to rebound from those but yeah I

just purge it crash it and then everybody is up in arms even the opportunists the people that aren't trophy hunters they'll get on our side too and we'll make a change that's what I think that's that's what needs to happen let's push for it so anyway there's just it's crazy to watch it so sometimes we're talking about year to years there's not much change there's always change happening and

over the counter if you'd ask me now I'm like yeah there's enough places around I can't see that going away who knows nothing is safe and there's some amazing hunting those coos deer guys that live for that hunt they're rutting and I can see how that would happen but we said the same thing about our deer in the 90s that we're never going to have to draw a $500 lifetime license is a borderline you know whether that's worth it or not in your lifetime we thought that so you just don't know what what's in front of you that you better be taking more advantage of well you know how about working out in a gym we got a gym owner there's a gym owner getting a 1.2 million dollar fine for keeping his doors open we said they the news said the governor's name at lunch we didn't know that governor's name so it wasn't yeah 1.2 million dollar to mask up or make his patrons mask up 1.2 million dollar fines

for defying governor murphy's coronavirus lockdown orders you might look up murphy governor murphy where's he from i'm just telling you how does that apply to ! here's my point your freedoms get stripped from you don't even know you wake up one day and you can't go buy groceries without a mask on you can't you can't and I'm not saying it's good battery in between I'm just saying you just don't know the stuff you take for granted going out to eat at a restaurant for heck sakes how about this back when I was in school and I still like to do it shed hunting you got to take a course online course you got seasons let's list the states and I'm scared of snakes so at that point I'm Nevada Colorado Wyoming I don't know about Idaho but those three Nevada Colorado Wyoming Utah Utah for some years heavy years that's right we had the director on to talk about that we're our worst enemy because people

are driving cross country and harassing wildlife or whatever it was deep snow but would you ever guess yeah I got to make sure every year my boy takes that class you got to have that certificate with you you you got to get permit draw permits to hunt antelope island for sheds I remember well just use permits forest service and blm permits bronson I mean there was people in the 90s there wasn't such a thing really huh no I mean there might have been but nobody it wasn't a thing it wasn't a thing now you got guide license special use permits in 14 different jurisdictions so anyway good example Archibald the shed was spot on you can't just wake ! I we should set up a GoFundMe account I'm sure he's already got 14 of them set up hopefully he does but crazy I got one I remember 2007 I drew second choice a 44 private land only deer tech there you go did John draw that too both of you is that the

buck in his office huh ! the 191 ! second choice second choice!

I don't know what !

scenario though has happened recently Bronson the last five years in Colorado 2007 and we're talking about 13 years ago you could hunt 13 a and the kaibab every year over the counter that's not this isn't we're talking about a grandpa's yeah I missed the biggest buck I've ever shot out in Colorado did you never forget it 07 07 that was the year we killed zero point unit I drew it two years in a row what unit was it 33 oh yeah there's good potential there but man what a grinder well but I'm telling you I saw bucks it was awesome it was right so right did you ever go back that's when I killed that you've never been back I haven't been back yeah it's not that good started hunting elk in November guiding out them dang out getting away how about back when you could apply in Nevada's guide draw and in the regular draw for deer get two points go in both I would do it every year get two points

I would do it because what you really wanted you put in for the good units in the guide draw you got your point a month early so you had your point extra points squared for the regular draw that's like 10 years ago and you could get two points a year in the early parts of that yeah and then they did away with the two points but you could do the guide draw get your points so it added to your total to be squared for the regular draw it's a fact it's like 10 years ago we're not talking about stuff 30 years ago we did I did it now you can't hang a camera on a tree after July 31st or walk around between the months of whatever and pick up an old white bone it's not attached to a skull from January 1 to May 1 utards are not allowed there anyway and then you get trail cameras for two months and then they're not allowed there for a little bit again it's just the restrictions we're not picking on

the matter we're just pointing everything out no no and the most heavily restricted professional sport or sport there is is hunting think about it I mean start stop beginning to the end daily hours depending on the day of the month the day of the year whatever down to the caliber I mean you can't even use a .45 caliber muzzle or in Colorado for elk or something but those you put a 400 grain bullet you can't tell me that's not going to hurt something you know what I mean tell me I'm wrong I wouldn't want to be in front of that I'm just saying there's lots of crazy stuff going on lots of stuff that we've seen you just got to be and it doesn't need to be a complete opportunity like an Idaho general like an over-the-counter archery deer in Arizona that we're thinking of it can just be your backyard elk general elk unit that you got in your state right now that's like I'm killing some

good bull don't you ride the wave before it crests and you got flat water take advantage full advantage of what you got for sure buy $25,000 tags because next year they might be $35,000 I don't know is that what you guys are talking about buy $25 tags to next year they might be $50,000 or they might not be available at all I just sat here and thought about if they took something away that I'd be mad I didn't take advantage of like Arizona hunter safety extra point if they took that away tomorrow I'd be so mad well this year like I've talked to a lot of people that are wondering what they're doing I'm like I don't know good luck getting a good answer because they're not having in person stuff and so temporarily been off limits for the last probably year I don't know I went down with my whole family and did the course with my whole family called it a family vacation two days told Jana we

were going to Arizona she was excited we pulled up to the hunter education building Kingman beautiful Kingman sandwiches on the tailgate babe it's kind of like me when I took the family vacation first time I ever went to Hawaii went to Hawaii toting guns that's hilarious too no but I didn't tell any Becky knew of course the kids knew and it was for the kids right yeah for the kids yeah after the first two days there I sent pictures to my parents of dead axis deer and they're like only you get away with that go to Hawaii with your family and sounds like Wyatt Sunday drives sneaking a pair of 10s in there yeah oh yeah but if the spotting scope goes in there it's going to tip her off that it's not just a Sunday drive I'm scouting yeah exactly so you can slip the pair of 10s in there and maybe get away with it but if you put the spotting scope everything else in there it's a deer spotting

trip she looks at you just say you know sometimes the sunsets are neat to look through but not you never know never know never know what you're going to see never know when you need them did you ever go back and video that deer I've been at the office daylight till dark you're not even going to go video at 200 inch give me an onyx pin I'll get back out I work here too I can figure out a video of that thing we haven't been here out of the daylight either no but we get a lunch hour we might have to forego a bad sushi trip I don't know all right well lots of things changing I don't know it's one of those crazy things I just think you guys need to take advantage of stuff while you can because all of this stuff is going to change and you're going to look back on opportunities that you have now dedicated hunter might go away I don't know that allows us to hunt all three seasons how excited

are we about that and then what if that went away that would suck right the ability to hunt all seasons in Nevada on land or text that would suck for deer and so you can hunt multiple deer you can kill one with a land or tag a draw tag whatever so there's just things that we do still take for granted even though things change for the worse and we've seen a lot of change over the last exactly in the budget oriented guys you know it's mostly the cost that has changed in multiple states just that alone yeah look at Idaho this year yeah I mean bumping the deer tag price bumping the non-resident license to what 185 you know application fees for the big three are like 45 plus convenience fees on top of that at 2600 you're at 300 something bucks you're adding it up 300 something non-refundable to put in for moose sheep and go to the non-resident and I know everybody they're wow wow don't apply

then I'm just pointing out nothing stays the same and when you're and you might not apply yeah and you might not apply now that we're not necessarily getting a general I bought a three year license so I'm committed for three years because I saw that coming doing it but you do a three year license now you're just back in at normal rate so Bronson did it just one year prior you brought up earlier the Wyoming sheep the climb the seven dollar point days or just if you had just had the foresight and I realize part of it is you gotta be old enough and aware enough and in the application game to know they're starting a point system but that's one Carter and I kick ourself about well yeah I mean we didn't get on on the ground floor and so when they started going to 75 bucks it was like I don't think I'm gonna get it I still wish I would have kept because I think I could have tagged by now yeah

it cost me a sheep doing just you know there's a couple regrets we all have a few regrets we should have a podcast on that but that's one of mine what song would we have maybe for regrets I don't know I'll have to think Chris you're good at those you have good jingles on our Instagram about tying a nice song to go with something we could probably get a Ray Wiley Hubbard song a little Cinderella today kind of applied but you know we get something that regrets I don't know I don't know but let's leave you on a another little no here we go Devin you gonna sway I don't think so no maybe give it 30 more seconds yeah don't know what you got till it's gone boys might have been a good podcast to call up some old timers no cold call yeah a little poorly lit high school cafeteria dance hall right here even the next generation above you two older than us older than us are those guys still alive

there's gotta be one or two kicking around somewhere I'd have to tell my dad what the podcast was before I cold called him on the podcast what's a podcast Adam just talk to me dad just talk I'll tell you later some things you just don't want to change but it's coming right Chris that's right that's enough let's go to work you Thank you.