EP 223: Hunting Q&A with the Epic Outdoors Staff Part 1

Pieces of the saddle, pieces of the bridle, just tacks scattered everywhere, all the way down this trail to catch the horses. Hunt a trophy unit once or twice in a lifetime, or hunt a five-point unit every five years. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, and the whole team here at Epic Outdoors. Well, pretty much the whole team. John will fill left out. Janet's going to fill left out. Licensed app gals will fill left out. John will fill left out. But anyway, got Devin, Wyatt, Josh, me, Adam, and Chris. How y'all doing today? Good. Sounds wonderful. Every time Adam and I are like, hey y'all, going in the podcast room, we get those long faces. But anyway, before we get started, we want to thank Under Armour. By the way, there's some UA codes online at our website, epicoutdoors.com. Go on there, download you some coupons for some reduced, 40% reduction, right? 40% off. 40% off. Yeah, copy and paste the code. On their website, copy and paste it. And they expire at the end of the month, don't they? End of the month, yeah.

So anyway, this could be for anything, not just hunting gear. Go on there, download some codes, spread them out, and go buy some gear. One way or another. Anyway, it's pretty awesome. Epicoutdoors.com is how you get it. We appreciate Under Armour and their support here at Epic Outdoors. One other little shout out, Bronson, Epic Optics. Take it away. Well, it's that time of year if you're, we still got time to ship something for Christmas. If you're looking for optics, spotting scope, rifle scope, binoculars for yourself, your wife, your kids, your uncles, your kids' uncles, uncles' kids, whatever. It doesn't matter. Give us a call. We can usually even expedite that if needs be, but we've got a great selection in stock. We just got a giant shipment of Vortex in recently of stuff all across the board.

Bunch of new things that we haven't had for months. So some of the supply chain stuff finally breaking through. So give us a call. We can help you with anything. Also got Stealth Cam's in stock. If you still got some of those or you want to give those, consider Christmas gift for somebody. Using them next year. Give us a call. Be glad to get some optics or trail cameras in your hands. Yeah, Josh, I think you helped a guy with some fusions this morning even. Yeah. Yeah, we did. Got some cellular cams in stock. Yep. Yeah, send him an email back letting him know. I don't know what he's going to be using them for or when or what, but we've got some in stock. We don't ask and don't tell if you don't want to. Anyway, 435-263-0777. Drop us an email. Optics at epicoutdoors.com. What are you smiling about? Could use it for home security. Backyard security. I mean, secure things.

I almost put some up in the bay actually for that. Just some breaking. Really? People breaking into cars. And I thought, I'm going to put a fusion right here. They're breaking into cars where in Chicago and you're worried about here? No. The Leenik over here. Are they really? Downtown. Hey, how about the people stealing Christmas packages from UPS and that off the front porch? It'd be a great use for it. So, you'd know instantly. Boom. Hit me. I like that little video camera when you go push the. Yeah, but if you don't have that. Go outside and tackle somebody. If you don't have that. Knock somebody down. In the snow. By the way, we got snow. How about that? For the first time in two months. We should take the day off. Celebrate. It's been two months. We got an early start. It got us all. Our hopes high. And we, of course, all beat to death how warm it's been for the last two months.

And finally got a little bit of normal December weather again. So, we think life's awesome. But it's still four or five inches of snow, Carter. And that's all it is. I know. And it's a little fluffier than I'd like. We need about eight. We need 12 to 15 feet to get caught up. Josh, you drive. You drive here. How is the snow up over the mountain? It was actually a little bit sketchy last night. It was snowing hard to the point where you could only see maybe 100 yards ahead of the car. Yeah. It kept, like, confusing you. And it was snowing, like, right in. And all of a sudden, you just get a weird vertigo feeling. Not know if you're turning or going straight or going over a hill. It reminds me not to let Josh drive in the snow where we're going somewhere. You're going light speed all the time. Yeah. It's like that old Star Wars game you used to play. Yeah. Yeah. I was going slow.

I have that clean one owner. Oh, yeah. Then I drive over and back. Yeah. No dents? No scratches? No. Is that the one you put in neutral at the top and see how far you can go? That's the game I play. On the way over, see how far I can make it on neutral. Buddy that works at the post office that does that. Remember down Black Ridge? Puts it in neutral. One of your buddies. I don't remember who that is. You do, too. Old Pfeiffer? All right. Well, anyway.

I can make it. I can make it from the top of 20 all the way to the I-15 without touching the gas. You can? Yep. Just completely coasting. Who knows that stuff? You can go through Buckskin? All the way. Yeah. I almost get pushed at the top. How slow do you go? Who would even think to test that? Playing games. You must have been done with the podcast. Bored. What else do you do? Games to play. Yeah. You can make it all the way from the top. Try it sometime. Yeah. If you get somebody in front of you, it's kind of hard. How slow did you end up getting going? There may be some pretty good speeds at the top and low speeds at the bottom. You're out of cell service in part of that, and I wanted to bring up something Wyatt taught me. These new vehicles have Wi-Fi. Wyatt, take it away. Tell us about that. That's interesting. So I just learned about it.

We got to try it out up there in Montana, and there was places where we did not have cell phone service at all, but had full 4G Wi-Fi. Could run Onyx anywhere. So you could run Onyx in the truck. You could make all your little calls. You got to pay for it. Like a Wi-Fi call or whatever? Well, iPhone calls. What do they call them, Chris? iMessage. iMessage. iCalling. FaceTiming. FaceTiming and that. You can't. My truck had it on the preliminary. You got to pay for it. It's not, you know, it's just a subscription service. Yeah, but now I didn't even know it was available because I'm like- I use mine. It was awesome. When I drive up to the dealership, I'm like, yeah, I know everything about it. Drive away. Like, leave me alone. No, this is interesting. My kids would watch movies the whole way driving to Monticello. Yeah. Without having downloaded beforehand. Who needs a- I mean-

Well, now we just need the onboard screen there in the truck to just pop up Onyx there so you don't have to look at the phone. The Onyx. Yeah, this Onyx is interesting. And then also, if you get in trouble or whatever, I mean, it's anywhere, right? Satellite service was working everywhere. Yeah, it seemed like it worked a lot of places up there, but relatively flat. I don't know. You don't hear in- You were clear up on basically- Yeah, Canada. Canada border. To the border, so- Wow. Close enough. I'll have to check that 04 Corolla and see if it's got Wi-Fi. Old mineral green. See what she's got. A little bit of cash that can do anything in this world. All right. Well, anyway, it's kind of interesting. Another thing is before we get started, you know, MOA rifles, they're awesome. Sponsor here at Epic Outdoors. We appreciate them. I did get an email. They've got rifles ready to ship.

Here we are at Christmas time. MOA Extreme Summit 300, you know, PRC, 24-inch barrel, fluted. Anyway, ready to ship, 6.5 pounds, 6.6 pounds.

Pretty awesome shooting the Hornady 212 ELDX. Anyway, and then they've got some rifles coming soon within two to four weeks. We were talking about this. Who else- It's a big deal. Pounds out rifles in less than a year and a half. Custom rifles. Yeah, it's tough these days. So, yeah, give them a call. And Chris, I think they also got a promo going with us, too. Now, if you buy a new rifle, you get, what, two boxes of ammo and a hard case for free, right? And ammo's pretty hard to come by right now. Yeah. It's a $700 value. So, yeah, if you mention the Epic package, that you want the Epic package, then they'll give you those two free boxes of ammo and a free custom hard case. Custom memory hard case. Pretty awesome. Yeah. Wow. In case, it's a couple hundred bucks, too. Fly around. They're not cheap. Go fly. Fly. That's right. Well, anyway. Pretty cool. How do you get a hold of them?

What's the number there? It's moarifles.com. You can give them a holler at 406-868-2864.

Moarifles.com. So, pretty awesome. You can also email info at moarifles.com. I think that's a better number. Here's another number. Yeah, that one's to that guy, Drak. Poor guy. Anyway. Anyway. Hey, hit him up. Name's Ty. Super good dude. I've talked to him. But the main number, 541-526-1820. Or info at moarifles.com. Of course, get on moarifles.com. See all the different products they have. And mention Epic, of course. All right. Chris, does that kind of bring us up to speed? That does. Or do you want to throw out any other ads? No, that does. That's good. We're up to speed. I think let's get into these questions.

All right. Here we go. Chris threw it out there last week. And he threw out on Instagram the Q&A. We've done these before. And, man, we get a wide variety of things. And we're going to get into that. Maybe not all today. Some of them include maybe possible physical violence. But we'll leave it at that until we read the question. And, by the way, we don't have to read every single question, do we? No. But some of them might. I'd like to know the answers to some of those. Okay. Well, Chris, I don't know. Or Adam. Adam, you kind of be the emcee on this particular podcast. Crank forward on this. I'll be the Alex Trebek of today. Rest in peace, Alex. Vanna White. You know, so, you know, that's Ken Jennings now or whoever that new Jeopardy host is. So, what would you guys recommend for non-resident mule deer in Colorado?

Hunt a trophy unit once or twice in a lifetime or hunt a five-point unit every five years or a zero-to-one-point unit every couple?

Okay. I want to start with Wyatt and Devin on this. I like that. Because I know that they're going to cover the zero-to-one-point unit because they both used their points and both used zero-to-one this year. And Wyatt used four on that one that I suggested. He was so mad at me. And we had an amazing experience compared to their experience this year. I agree. Wyatt, Devin, go ahead. Jason has to throw that in that it's not Wyatt's worst deer hunt of his life. Go ahead, Wyatt. He says that, but it was a very similar experience both units. Amnesia. Those lower-point units in Colorado, of course, do have higher tag numbers. And you're going to run into a lot of people. A lot of times they're over-the-counter elk that same time of year. So, you just have to learn to hunt in and around people and kind of tolerate that if you're going to look at those zero-to-one-point units.

Sometimes your friends abandon you after day four. Who did that? Sometimes friends go home. Devin, did you come home early? Yeah. And there's a question in here that says something about who's the most dedicated and patient or whatever. And I would have said you until this last time. Go ahead. Tell us why you came home.

Well, for one, I'd been... He'd been 14 days in Nevada right before that. Okay. All right. Straight. Okay. Well, two months. And then you have been. And then guiding on the heels. And I was getting sunburned daily on a third season. We nearly got shot the first morning. Chris, you heard that ricochet. Yeah. And there was more to come after you left. Bucks dying all the time. I mean, we're like, oh, there's a three-point. Boom. Smack. Dead. Boom. Bullets flying. There was a day there. There was something that was wounded, though, and then the buck comes up by you guys. Yeah. In the scope, on my phone scope, I am watching this buck. We had it bedded. And then you see orange come into my scope right behind. And he pounds the buck. He shoots it. That day, we watched four different deer die that day. Yeah. Like, in our optics looking, we watched four different bucks get killed that day.

I think the only one that survived. So, this is a good experience. There's bucks everywhere. I mean, I'm taking this in. That's the point. The only one that survived was a two-point, and it was bedded from the start. Bedded at daylight. That's good genetics. I glassed it up bedded. That buck's going to be a 240. Nobody killed that deer. He's going to live until he's eight. I didn't even tell you guys this. I was up on top, and I saw a three-point with some does come out. And it's the dumbest deer in the world. You're like, the poor deer. And all of a sudden, I hear coming up the road behind me. And I get off the road, and I'm like, get out of here. You know? I chased him into the trees. You were harassing wildlife? Yes. It would have been smoked. It saved his life. No question. We had, what, that one buck had three different groups of hunters shoot at it that morning. Oh, yeah.

Coming up the ridge to us. And it ran past us. Right before, Wyatt, you, let's call it pre-scouted, because my wife loves that. But you pre-scouted, or maybe you too, Devin. We both did. We both did. Oh, yeah. This is an interesting fact. And you guys saw a good buck, 27-inch or something. Yeah, I saw two nice four points. Just four points. And you're like, this is going to be the best hunt in the world. There's no people. I didn't think best hunt in the world. But I think, hey, if we're finding these bucks now, we'll turn up some decent bucks in this year. There's a skiff of snow. And the dates are only getting to be later. Yeah. And me and Wyatt go out. So, you know, we weren't first light, but we were, it was early. We didn't see a soul. And I asked Wyatt, I said, are we supposed to even be here? Is Onyx wrong? Did they shut this place down? We didn't see a soul. Until what?

One o'clock, noon? And then it was the next day? And then it was a madhouse. The place is run by Democrats. They could have shut it down. They came alive. I mean, you never know. My point is, we were there the day before the hunt, and it was just pristine. Like, Buck, Wyatt found bugs. I found bugs. Devin went up. I went down and around. Neither of us had tracks over ours, anywhere near ours. Like, nobody came in there at all. Just perfect. Seeing bucks, wide open hillsides, bucks on them. This is going to be awesome. So, opening morning, you wake up, headlights everywhere. Everywhere. You couldn't look a direction without headlights coming your way. Wow. Well, so, in summary, a zero to one point unit. You're going to deal with some people. You guys, you're going to deal with people? You're going to deal with people.

But I still felt like, with snow, a big, normal snow, and, you know, the places we hunted, it could have happened. Yeah. It could have happened. Everybody would whoop up on the two and threes, and then the last three to four days, it could have been amazing. Yeah, I think if you went every year and figured a place out, I think it could happen. For sure. A few years ago, John and I did that. Both of us drew. Different unit. Yeah, but a low, easy draw. But it's the same thing. Easy draw. Tons of people. And it was like that for the first several days, and it was terrible and terrible. But by the last two days, all of a sudden, we started seeing bucks. And both of us ended up killing good bucks. They weren't giants, but they were both good bucks. John's was mid-170s.

So, it's one of those things. If you go and you're there consistently year after year, it can happen. I think that's probably the key to key in on. We'll knock the top part of it out. Should you wait for a trophy hunt once or twice in a lifetime? No. No, we shouldn't. Absolutely not. Colorado, nothing is so top-heavy right now that is worth the wait. Now, for you that have 20-plus points, it's a crapshoot. You don't pick one and get rid of them. Do not wait. We had guys with 24 points that had the same experience these guys had. Not the numbers of people, but the same quality. Yeah. Just a tough year. So, in general, I would say that three- to seven-point range. I mean, some years you can't go because you're going to do something in another state that you do a point that year. But regular intervals. And there's turn-back tags. There's landowner tags.

Try to be in Colorado as often as you can. And I don't like to go to zero one-point units anymore just because I've done those a lot. And I'm getting older. And I value my years in Colorado, and I don't want another one to slip away. And having said that, let's move on. So, I think using – I agree with you guys. Three to seven years. Every three to seven. And then you could draw a second choice tag. I even drew one this year. And then turned it back and got a refund and gained a point. So, I mean, it's getting harder to do that, but I did it. And then picked up a landowner tag. More often, yeah, you go four, five, six, seven hunts in Colorado versus one or two in your life, you know, way better. All right. Jason, this is for you. Oh, I haven't looked at this question. Have you killed a 200-inch buck in the high country?

I guess I'm going to define that arbitrarily as 10,000 feet of a buck. No. Yes. No, I am. Have I? Well, I don't know. I don't think I have. Or backpack hunt. I don't think so. So, I know you backpack hunt. Well, we backpacked. But in the high country.

Probably have 200-inch. How about you killed a few in Colorado that were higher elevation. Yeah, they're higher. But winter range is 7,800 feet. That 207. Which one? You know, the wide one.

That's how you know you have 200-inch stairs. Somebody has to describe it to you. I mean, yeah, let's call that 8,500 feet, right? The blank stare from Carter when you say, you know, 207, the hook cheater. He's like, I don't know what you're talking about. I have a couple right there in the rafters. That's the one that's hanging in the bathroom behind the shower. That was Texas Mountain Unit 21, fellas. I remember very well. That was the one that I had the kids make knife handles out of.

You guys are rude. So, I guess high country. I don't think he had high guards. I think we're traditionally thinking high country probably like a GRH or early season Colorado. No. That's just not. I even did region H this year. Yeah. And I tried to kill one. And I didn't see one. So, I guess the answer is no. But he hasn't tried. But in your defense, probably. By the way, there's a lot of young deer in Wyoming right now. A lot of young deer. And Bronson in Idaho, too. Huh? Absolutely. I haven't killed one in the high country. If they have another mild year or two, get ready. Maybe we need to make that a goal. But I'm thinking, like, there's not a lot of high country around here. No. Utah, we don't really have that. I mean, we don't. I mean, you can't even say, like, the Henrys or any of our general units. San Juan Abajo is not really because it's accessible. Wasatch extended.

Some of those guys are hunting those basins where they're hiking into. But it's also the Pinot Juniper, Sage, Nevada. On the Wasatch extended. Yeah. I'm not missing the boat. I've said it could be a pretty cool hunt. I've hunted it a few times and been on some good deer up there. It's pretty legit. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I told my kids about it. But it is kind of a physical unit. Yeah. It's for some people. It's just not for me. How's that? It's just late. Well, it's late. I don't hit the gym enough to go hunt that place.

Moving right along. Come on. All right. All right. Here's one. We've had a couple people ask. And I guess we'll address this now. Jason, part of this is for you. And I guess Chris and I and John that had a former life. Had a few questions. Had a life? Or a former. Former. Former. Not a form of life. A former life. Yeah. Where's Garth now? What's he up to? So, Garth Carter. Yeah. Jason's dad. And we get him on a podcast. Yeah. Guy wants to. Let's get him on a podcast. No. Let me tell you. Let me just. Let me just preface that with. I'll bet he's never listened to a podcast. No. Ever. No. He hasn't. And he may still have a flip phone. Yeah. And so, what's he doing now? And Jason, do you help with him? So, just tell the world about. Garth. He has planned. What happened? Well, he has. And this goes along with us getting older, Bronson. I mean, we used to laugh at some different things.

You know, people that we knew that were older and have little habits and things. But he likes doing the same hunts that he's done. He's got his favorite lineup. And nowadays, he's not making a living in the hunting industry. He wants to do exactly what he wants to do. Hunt these particular hunts and maybe not even venture out and learn new stuff because he doesn't need to. You know what I mean? Likes what he wants to do. So, yeah. He's still hunting and cranking. I don't even think he's taking photos of his trophies. So, yeah. He doesn't need to, right? Like, I mean, you're not in the publication industry or, you know, out in the public eye. So, anyway. Lucky. Some point, Bronson, we're going to be there. And you're going to just take pictures or not. You get to choose, right? I don't know. Nowadays, you've got to take pictures and video or it didn't happen. Yep. In our stage of life.

So, what do you guys think about that? Bottom line, no. When you get older, are you going to take pictures of everything and publish it or no? Why? Yeah. I don't see a point, do I guess? No. Yeah. You just don't have to. At some point, you don't really hunt for yourself, you know? Yeah. Don't need to. And we do. We hunt for ourselves. But still feel like you want to share it. Anyway, who knows? Yep. To button that up maybe just slightly, you know, when Garth chose to sell hunting full off, obviously we, you know, weren't part of that. Went a different direction. Had to start ground zero. And we launched Epic Outdoors. And this is our thing. That was Garth's thing. That was his sellout. And we all had a little bit different longevity. We weren't, you know, we were 30-something-year-olds at the time. And we're glad to be up and around doing our thing now. Garth's retired.

And, yeah, I don't think any of us really see him around. We're old now, Bronson. That was a long time ago. And I don't think he's been on their own podcast, HF. No. No, I don't think so. Puts out a podcast once in a while. And, anyway, he's not even been on there. So I don't think we're getting him on here. He's been retired. What's he pushing, Jason? Is he 70? 69, 70? Almost. Yeah. Something like that. And does, you know, a lot of vacationing. And then hunts exactly what he wants. He's been retired. Does the exact hunts. Hunts exactly what he wants to do, which, hashtag life goals. You know what I'm saying? At some point, be nice just to, I've got my place, and I kill a 200-incher every single year. What would be wrong with that? No. That's right. Okay. Moving on. Next question. What are some things that keep you guys motivated to keep hunting hard when conditions are less than ideal?

So does that not sum up 2021? Yeah. 2021. I mean, that's 2021. I can't wait for January 1st. How about you guys? For all intents and purposes, it is because we're done hunting. So bring it on. So let's go around the table. I want to start first, because I'm going to lose this idea. What keeps me going is knowing that everybody else is going through the same pain and suffering. So the text logs, the Instagram, if everybody's going through it and we're all struggling, I'm like, all right, we're all struggling. It's not just me. It's not just my unit. Okay. But what if, I'm going to flip it. What if it is just you? It's an awesome year, and you're having grinders, and they're not having it. How do you keep motivated? It's an awesome year. I don't know. Okay. Well, I'm just. Now that's for you, Devin. You're next. I had this happen quite a couple times this year.

But it was not an awesome year. I always, in my mind, I always think like, first of all, you only have so many deer tags in your life. You only have so many Septembers, Novembers, whatever. And it's like, and I think, I think all year about going out and hunting. I'm here now. I'm going to enjoy it. I'm going to enjoy it. Because in, say, March, I'm going to be wishing you were back in 2021, a terrible year. Even if it sucked. Yep. That's me. It's me. It's like, I know when the hunts are over, I'm going to miss being hunting. Even the rough days. You mean like when you're at your desk, we're cranking through the statistics for yesterday, the day before, day before. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I'm missing it. That's what I. And what I think Devin's good at. Because it is a grind. What I think Devin's good at is turning off his phone, but blaming it on bad cell service. He enjoys every day.

And he'll be hunting by himself. Oh, yeah. We have. Ten days in a row with no service. Supposedly. We have group text. And he. I literally have to ask. Usually, I turn to Wyatt. They're a little. Wyatt's better. They've been a good friend since high school. Wyatt answers the phone. I said, is Devin alive? How many times have I asked you that? They'll be hunting together. And Devin will say, sorry, guys, there's a bad cell service. And Wyatt's replying every day. Wyatt's posted on Instagram.

Wyatt's got TikTok videos going out every three hours. Wyatt downloads movies every day. And Devin has no service. In my defense. This is a flip phone. We choose not different areas. I'm just that way. When I'm out there. Focused. I am focused. And I don't try to be that way. It's just how it is for me. I look up to you for that. I honestly. I've gotten better at that as I get older, too. I agree. I kind of. I just kind of go be there. And I try not. I've tried to do the opposite. I've tried to get better at looking at emails or calling or updating people. But like. Because usually when I'm there, I'm just. And so nowadays, too, it's hard with social media. Because you're keeping track of things. When you're bored for a minute in the truck, you'll scroll. And it's nice to compartmentalize. Kate, maybe tonight. I don't look at my phone until 6 p.m. I've gotten more. Or whatever.

Or if I'm gone for a week. I'll wait until I get home. Just because.

Well, and I have an Instagram that Aaron and I look at the same one through Bronson Outfitting. So if he looks at something, it's not now fresh. Right? And so it's a little bit different. Because you guys share the Instagram. Yeah. Well, I've had it for years. But Aaron jumps on that one. Just, I don't know. I didn't make one. So he jumps on the Bronson Outfitting. And he'll look at it. So all the fresh stuff is gone. And I'm like, well, nothing happened. And I go. This is all I've got to look at. I've got to look at the older stuff to see stuff I really haven't seen yet. So it's a little. Anyway. Yeah. That's a first world freaking problem right there we're talking about. But anyway. It's good, though. Because it can mess with your head when you're out. You know, I had it when we were in Nevada. We didn't have very good service. I mean, you had service. And you did. Or whatever I did.

Or different companies or whatever. I'm telling you to come look at a buck. And then loading up these guys. These guys are replying. But you had a different provider. Yeah, I did. What was your. I had AT&T. Yeah. I had Verizon. And I just didn't have service. But it was actually. It was refreshing not to get caught up in that crap. Because I've been caught up in it to the point before where I found myself at a glassing point. Call it an addiction. You were doing a 12-step program. Yeah. Yeah. At prime time and you're flipping through. And you're like, I'm hunting. What am I doing? Look at social media or whatever. Yeah. So doing that. Kind of unplugging for a week. And at the same time, too. As you're going. Like you were saying, Adam. If everybody else is having success. If you're flipping through Instagram. I'm like, oh, this Joe Blow killed a deer. And this guy killed a deer.

It's the highlight reel. Yeah. Exactly. With the new photos. You're making 150s look 180. Yeah. And you're like, man. Everybody's smashing giants. But me. And you think that everybody else is having these great, wonderful hunts. When they're actually not. And then you focused and smashed one in one hour. The first hour you were there. Yeah. Because you were focused. Yeah. I mean, you have complete luck come your way. I'm pretty sure there's no one who gets service where you were probably. Yeah. You made a lot of people feel bad. Yeah. Man, we're having the worst hunt of our lives. And Josh rolls in one hour. He didn't even have to really unload his tent. No. I could have glassed that buck from the door of my tent if I really wanted to. But it was lucky. Yeah. But the thing is, you know, you had some grinders before that. And that's what keeps me going. They'll average out.

During those grinders is you just think all it takes is 20 seconds of luck. And it's going to change for you. I look at even third season when I went back with my wife and kids. It was a seven-day grind. And probably the worst hunt I've ever had, how my kids even stayed positive. Personally, I would have maybe been in Devin's shoes. I had maybe the hunts before that go. I would have just been like, there's nothing here for me to leave. But then it just so happens at 1130 on day seven, a great big buck comes walking out of the Aspens, you know, chasing a doe, a buck that you would shoot on most any unit. And, you know, we couldn't get it to happen before he got on private and trying to get kids on guns and things like that. But I feel like if it would have been my tag, I probably could have killed him easily. But it's just that 20 seconds of luck. There's a window.

We didn't do anything different than any other day. Nothing was – the wind was still blowing a million miles an hour, still cold. It was still just brutal like we've had the last seven days. Nothing changed other than that 20 seconds of luck of being in the right spot. And so that's what keeps me going is to know that, hey, at some point I'm going to roll up on a deer that's out there feeding. And you could have glasses from behind. That was the seventh day, the last day of the worst hunt of your life. Yeah. So moral of the story, stay until the seventh last day, last night. If you – If you're not going to lose your job or your marriage. Marriage. Yeah, that's true. Jobs come and go. Marriages probably need to really pay attention to it. And they were there with me, so it's okay. But I don't know. That's what I have to just think about at times is really just think about it.

There's going to be 20 seconds of luck at some point. And you can't have that if you're driving home. Well, there was a giant kill on second season, the last 10 minutes of the last day. And I'm like – just knowing that, it kind of was fresh in my mind. I was like, I'm going to hunt the last, very last minute of my hunt. And I hunted the very last minute. Part, part, because people made it happen the last day. I hunted elk for 20 days, and I did – that was my best opportunity was the last literal five minutes of 20 days. There you go. That's a good example. And you had a great tag, and you knew the potential. So you had passed a lot of bulls, but you weren't shooting an inferior bull, because this is a once-in-a-lifetime type tag. Yeah. And you got – I had killed a bull, you know. Earlier in Colorado. Great bull, yeah. So that's a good point.

I want to add to what Josh said, too, for me, if it's a bigger unit with a lot of area, I'll go somewhere, and I'm okay if I fail. You know, I'll go try a new place, because you're hunting new stuff, and just like you said, 20 seconds, one little quakey patch. You never know. Colorado, that's part of the issue for me. I went to the same place three days in a row, because that's the only place I could go, and that was tough. I had a guy. But it could still happen. It's just mentally for me to get the same stuff. That's tough. Small unit or – You might not get that 20 seconds of luck either. You might go home with – but I feel like if you do that, you know, you felt like you put it all out there on the table. And maybe there will be some regrets here or there a little bit, but you did everything you could to put yourself in that situation and have that little bit of luck.

I had Jana tell me when she's on one of the hunts this year, she said, just stay and keep grinding, because you're going to – you want to leave it all out there so you don't have any regrets. You know what I mean? When you come home and you're refreshed and short. After a night in your own bed and a shower, you're like, man. You're wishing you hadn't driven seven hours. That's right. Home and got home. Kind of crazy. I had a guy in Idaho. He's grinding out of late archery, and he's like, what – I mean, I've hunted this often. Like, what could I do different? I mean, it's just miserable. I've never seen it like this. And at the end of the phone call, by the end of it, I mean, I hadn't hunted this unit, so I kind of had to wrap my head around it. But anyway, by the end of it, it's, you know, kind of like everywhere else.

There was deer on the winter range where you'd expect them this time of year. And then there was deer at 10,000 feet where you wouldn't expect them because there's no moisture, no snow. And so they're scattered. There's a sprinkling throughout. There's no concentration of pie, no concentration in the middle, no concentration at the bottom. But there's a few everywhere. So I told him, I said, you know, I would do something different that you've never done before. Go do some weird stuff because you figure you're going to eat your tag anyway. Go do something weird and learn stuff you've never hunted before. And maybe you're going to find an 8-year-old that's not been hunted because nobody usually hunts those areas. I don't know. You can't do anything wrong. So go learn something and maybe something gives, right? Maybe just you learn something for the next time you hunt it or whatever.

You're probably going to eat it anyway. So it's good years to experiment a little bit. All right, why? Well, I was just going to basically, Paul, like, really touched on what I was going to say. It just can't happen if you're not there. I mean, you're not going to kill a big deer if you're not out there in the woods where the big deer live. And, you know, years of guiding and hunting with people, it's just amazing how fast a mediocre hunt can turn to a phenomenal hunt. 30 seconds, like you guys have said. It just takes that being there and in the right time. Yep. Okay. I like it. How many times have any of us killed on the last day? I know I have – there was one in Colorado. I was there the whole time. I was actually there 18 days between scouting and hunting. And I didn't kill until the very last evening as it was starting to get close to the last shooting light.

And it just – it can happen anytime. These are sweet. Yep. Keep it going and you're going to miss – when it's over, you're going to miss it. So, all right. Why haven't we had a decent hunt report rundown of Jason's late archery out hunting Arizona a year or two ago? Bronson, I knew I shouldn't have allowed you to be the emcee. Hey, I am doing my job. I would have skipped this one. I need a paycheck. I would have skipped this one. I need it. So, let me do my job. Not predicated on this. Let me do my job. It's a hunt that's probably been on a few keen hunters' radar. They do have, let's say, a handful, three to four of those late hunts in Arizona. It's important also – this subscriber says, important to learn from the hunts that didn't see a giant or have an opportunity or cut a tag on.

And if we ever talked about – if all we ever talked about was a successful hunt, people's views and expectations on many hunts might be a little misguided. Keep up the great work, fellas. I think we do a pretty good job here about keeping it real, about getting our butts kicked because all year long it feels like the word grinder, butt kicker, whatever else has come. We're freely saying that. So, I don't think we try to only talk about that. But since they talked about a specific hunt that – this is the case, Jason, you had minimal points. Ten. And it's a – Ten. I had ten and I put the point-boosted client. Holy cow, I forgot you had that many. So, never mind. That's not chicken feed. There's sometimes – there's sometimes that we – You get talked into – We're entitled to some privacy even though we're in the public eye.

And sometimes you get talked into doing some things like Clint had just drawn the unit an early – And he smashed a 400, 395, whatever it was. 396 point. Okay. And then says, let's just go hunt November. Now, this unit, 23, I think, is before the late rifle. Yeah, it is. The archery hunt. It is. Which is – it's kind of a unique fun time frame. That's why it's interesting. That's why it's interesting. You get a hunt still November, but tell us about that experience in 60 seconds or less. Well, I just think – I learned a lot on this one. And I've hunted coos deer in 23, so I was – and I saw big bulls. I saw good bulls, especially on the north part of it. We concentrate on the south part. Generally speaking, it seems like the biggest bulls are in the south part. And sometimes you get those res bulls coming over. But you need local knowledge. You need local knowledge.

So I learned a couple things. You need local knowledge. And that country is so freaking thick. It's got manzanita up to your chest. And it's so thick, you're not going to spot and stalk. You're just not going to in a lot of it. And so you hunt off – a lot of guys will hunt, you know, put blinds on salt or water. And down there, it was hot. It's, you know, a lot of desert country. And so that can work. And so anyway, yeah, it was a different experience. We did have some help of some local knowledge and didn't work out like I thought it would have been. I mean, when we got there, we ended up having to start putting up the cameras, used all of my blinds and whatnot. The guy still has one of my blinds. And I just feel like we started on the left foot. We didn't really start cranking. We had to kind of get rolling. And, you know, he had some cameras set up.

But we didn't even – I don't know why we didn't. We didn't check. He wasn't checking them. But I don't know where all his cameras are. Sure enough, I mean, there's a .380 bull looking salt three days in a row, two in the afternoon and four in the afternoon. And I'm just like – so I just feel like this was one of those hunts that just – Were you glassing big bulls up during the hunt? Not giants but good bulls. No way to get to them. Like I'm not going to get there on the ground. These are long – it's a great unit for long-range rifle. And so we would have done better like hindsight. I want to hunt the biggest of the biggest. But in hindsight, you'd be better on the north half. Like you can spot and stalk it easier. And then other than that, you're kind of, you know, you're in a blind on salt or water, which is legal.

And which is, again, it's just one of those things I think you need local knowledge. The stalkability was different. And I don't know. I learned a lot off that hunt. But, again, it's ten points in another three to four years. You're looking at having archery options and different things. In the September season. Yeah, I was a little – Sober. Sobering. And maybe, you know, made a bad choice there. But I did it. And I made a lot of bad choices in my life, Bronson. I have – Oh, you all like what? And all y'all. You all know. I've had lots of tags. I don't want to talk about every one of them. Oh, okay. But anyway – You said as if we knew. Well, you do know. I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, you do. Okay. I had seven deer tags this year. Okay. Seemed like all seven were bad choices. All right. So anyway –

The good thing about the paper they're printed on, it has that waxy surface to make them waterproof. It's a good fire starter. It's waterproof. It's a good fire starter. You could use it multiple times. Yeah. That's right. So anyway, you can wash it, reuse it. All right. So anyway, that's kind of – I don't know. It's one of those – There's no secrets, but that's a grind. My takeaway is hire somebody that's got your best interest in mind that will work his guts out because it's well worth the money. Or have a lot of time. You need the local knowledge or have a lot of time, and there's some places that are stockable and some that aren't. And I think when you look at it, you say, this is how it's best effectively hunted. And if you don't like that, we need to go to a different part of the unit. You should go to the other spot and stock side. That's right.

But you learn that after hunt, not until it's too late. Yeah. But anyway, so there you have it. Good. We both ate our tags and called it a day. Okay. All right. Moving on. Okay. I need to come up with one of these questions. Chris, help me. Help me. What do you mean? Just something for you. I should have been thinking. A little something, something. I don't know what. Well, there might be one for me. I'm just going down in straight order. Well, I know there are some for you, but like one of these that – Why don't we hear about your bad shiz?

They're stressing me out. I don't like it. Okay. All right. Keep going. What should non-residents be doing sitting in that 10-point range in Colorado? Hunting. Hunting. Hunting. Hunting for decent bucks. Be good to get the guy's opinions. Seems age class is getting smashed and older bucks are getting harder to find each year. Go early archery or muzzleloader or early rifle up high for the first crack at them? Question mark. Throwing that out as an alternative. I think – I'll lead it off. Hell yeah. I think that's a pretty good early option, honestly. Which one? Archery, muzzleloader, or early rifle. Okay. They're way underappreciated in Colorado. Way. Now, there are some muzzleloader hunts that due to low tag numbers like 20, take 15 points to draw the deer tag. And I'm not talking about those. But in general terms, archery, muzzleloader, but there's a lot that you can go hunt.

If you have the time to go spend some time early, that's probably the biggest key to show up. You can show up and get luckier easier on a second or third season, I think, than you can show up and just get lucky. I like showing up and getting lucky. I like that. Okay. So, that's why we all normally gravitate to Colorado on rifle hunts later because we're busy in September and October doing other things. We show up there and hope the snow and deer move down. But absolutely, if you can carve some time out of a schedule into archery or muzzleloader early rifle up high and go over there in mid to late August and scout, it will be a good hunt in many units. And I think, to add on to that, there are units that are not fun to archery and muzzle hunt. Bronson, you took part in one. Yeah, there's some that are thick. And it's so thick. And it goes back to part of my answer on the other question.

There's some stuff that is just not stockable, glassable, stockable. You know, we glass them, bed them, and stock them. Yes. That's what we do out here by our house. You know what I mean? Like 68 archery muzzle. That's not, doesn't strike me as an awesome archery muzzle in most places. There's some high above timberland stuff. And they do have some open parks. But there's a lot of mid-thick, thick country in that unit that I just think, not every unit, but targeted units. And the country you had, you said, admittedly, you came back and you said, I'm not sure I'd go back and do that one. It was just a little bit tougher. In our style. Our style of hunting. Spot, stock, bed of deer, get on, rather than sit a ridge and wait for a deer. It's like I'm hunting a whitetail over there at times. Waiting for a deer to feed out.

And so our opinions, I mean, obviously those, like you said, underappreciated, go do that. Have first crack at them. That's awesome. Especially a year like this year. I've got a good buddy that does, always does second or third. He is going to do muzzle. And have first crack at them. And I think there's some merit to that. Especially if you've got the time to scout. But anyway, you guys want to jump in on that? Well, coming back to his question with 10 points, all our answers are use them. Use them. Yeah. The threat didn't happen. And this may get to it later. We didn't have the weather to crush Giant Age class this year collectively across the state. It didn't happen. It dodged a bullet. Normally you would say it dodged a bullet. But I'm wondering. Maybe they're not there. The big question is, are they even there?

Or have we hunted them in the rut for the last 20 years so dang hard with all the New Age hunting stuff? And even, it feels like people, maybe it's this Biden era, but it feels like people have more time, Bronson, than they've ever had. They have more time and more money and more vacation time. Tell me I'm wrong. Yeah. I mean, people definitely have switched to Colorado as a mule deer destination over the last 15 years instead of an elk destination. And they put a lot of resources into it. Time? Yeah. Energy? Well, naturally, when you burn double-digit points, yeah, you're going to do that. And so it's had a lot of attention by a lot of very serious deer hunters for a lot of years. So use them. Not to say there's not good options for second and third, because there is. Yeah. Don't think like that 10-point range, that's all it's going to get you. A lot of great second season options. Lots.

Not as many thirds. I will freely admit that. You guys have anything to add to that? No, I think you hit that one pretty well. Okay. I think, too, I had a guy, while we're talking about Colorado, I had a guy ask me, are they going to be point banking again? One year, they allowed the point banking. Like 10 or 15 years ago. If you had 10 points and you had 10, you'd come out with seven and attack. Not going to happen. We haven't even heard of anybody even breathing a word of that. Don't see that happening. Having said that, if a unit takes five and you have 10, and you want to go to the five-point unit, freaking go and waste the five points. It's hard to feel like you're wasting it. I don't want to waste the five points. Maybe I can get a better unit if I can eek in there with nine or something like that and make the absolute best bang for my buck. Best bang.

We have cover bucks with two and three points. The best bang for your buck isn't necessarily using a nine of your ten points in somewhere. It might be using seven. Six or seven. It might be easier for you to plan if you can say, I guarantee you I will be here at this time. Then you can maybe schedule some days to scout, or you can do that. You could probably be more effective knowing you're going to have this tag than if I'm going to have it or not. Yeah, don't. A lot of guys want to come in by the skin of their teeth feeling they get their value out of their points. And if you get the hunt that you want, who cares? Who cares? I agree with that. The skin of the teeth guy seems to be the guys that we talk to every year. They miss it. They just miss it. Every year. And they can't figure it out. And then they're just holding on to their points. That's right.

We've even had licensed app guys say, you know, I just never can get drawn. And you read the notes, and it's like he's choosing to not get drawn. And we've said that. You want to draw a tag? I'll draw you a tag right now. Guaranteed. You have one point, I'll draw you a tag. Well, that only takes 18, and I got 22, Jason. That doesn't matter. Not a problem. Yeah. Not a problem. Yeah. I would rather, you know, I just would rather a 21-point unit, and then that thing point creeps. Everything's going to point creep. All right. Moving on. Call it a day. A few questions. Canada-related. Has the crew hunted mule deer in Canada for mule deer? And it seems to be the land of giants up there, according to Dan. Also, what's your favorite venison recipe? So, I have not hunted mule deer up there. Jason, I know you had a white tail. Did you hunt mule deer at the same time, or is that a white tail on me?

No, it's a white tail. It's probably for me a product. I mean, there's mule deer. There is mule deer, and I could have, but it wasn't. Is it mostly November? The September is archery. It seems like we're busy down here. And the November, we're busy too. I feel like, no, we haven't, but I mean, why not? We should be up there. There are some big deer. The really big deer, we're seeing all of them. Yeah, there's Saskatchewan. Wyatt, I want your rendition of Saskatchewan bucks. Like, we talked about it, and you don't have to be brutally honest, but pretty honest. But, I mean, we see a lot of Instagram or social media Saskatchewan bucks, and what, yeah, we would all like to hunt there. Yeah. Whole different world. Non-resident hunters aren't allowed to hunt Saskatchewan. And also, they're agricultural-based deer 90% of the time, and nobody's messing with them. They're private land. Residents.

Patternable. Resident deer. No pressure. And residents hunting. You mean we don't have people in hunter orange jumpsuits posted up every 100 yards? Yeah. No, not like my Colorado experience. Okay, so, and that's what I think is, yeah. It's a little. The bucks you're seeing out there, they're amazing deer. They're special in their own right. This is a whole different experience here in the lower 48. And we can't go there. I would freaking be there. Yeah. We would own property. And Alberta's good, but it feels like it is, and I don't know this year. I mean, the last two years have been weird with, I mean, the COVID-related travel issues there. But things feel like they'd moderated right up until that. It wasn't quite as producing as many. And frankly, Devin, some of our outfitters that do the best are doing better in September in those archery hunts up there. That's what I was going to say.

We work with one or two outfitters up there. They kill their biggest deer. Archery all the way. Well, and we've booked a lot of hunters and good friends of mine and ours as well that have done well up there. So I don't think people should shy away from going there. You absolutely should go there if you're willing to go there. Of course, you know, you're in Canada. You need to make sure you're vaccinated and a few things like that. No reason to avoid it. It's just another one of those places like a Colorado or like a good Utah. It should be on your rotation, but it's not – it isn't the holy grail, I guess. I don't want to – I've got a full schedule, and I don't even know what it is yet, Bronson. You know what I mean? Well, you did say – and this is a digression, but I did hear you did say today that if you could find this antelope tag, you'd buy it right now.

I heard you say that out of your lips. Why do you have to tell everything? Well, I don't know. We've been done hunting for a week, and Carter's – I've seen – Josh, we saw three to five booners. I don't even know what one looks like, and we saw them. Josh, tell me I'm wrong. We stopped glassing deer to glass an antelope buck at one point. I'm telling you. So if you could find a second one, I'd probably go with it. There's one ridge I was like – and I think I texted you all. I was like – I remember. And I was – and I didn't have my phone scope with me. I don't know where it was. Probably in some obscure backpack. And I'm just like, I cannot believe what I'm looking at. It was 40-mile-an-hour gale winds. They were on kind of a – you know, the calm side of a hill. And I mean, there was one. It was just like freaking black ABS pipe or whatever it is. I mean, just – Seward pipe.

I was dying, and I'm like, I'll pound this thing right now and put any mule deer tag on that thing. I don't know. And I don't even like antelope. Don't even tell people I like antelope. You know better than that. I didn't say you liked them. I'm just saying you – But if we find a tag, I'm first to – You've got more tags than you – That's right. All right. Let's move on. I don't know. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. The favorite venison recipe. Oh. I want to say mine. I got one too. Okay, do it. I want to say mine. Chris, you go ahead. You go first. My favorite venison recipe. Teresa. Come on. Go ahead. The first ingredient is you have to have Jeff John cooking on the grill. Oh. On the smoker. Okay. Smoked – Camp chef. Smoked venison on the camp chef by Jeff John. Yeah. Okay. It is good. It's hard to beat. All right. I like that. Just bring Jeff down. Bring Jeff down. He doesn't charge much.

Anyway, that's not true. What were you going to say? Dude, so I grew up on this. I grew up on this. We – Like those finger steaks. So you cut them into like finger steaks. Let's say one inch by one inch squares that are about three inches long. So they're like a finger steak. Right. And then you put about, oh, a half inch of oil in the bottom of a pan. You get it hot. Half inch deep. Yeah, deep. Wow. Deep. Yeah. And if you use olive oil, you can justify it. It's good for you. It's heart healthy. And then you take Lowry's and you douse it in Lowry's when it's, you know, moist meat. With flour? Or just meat? And you roll it in flour. Yeah. That's what I had. You roll it in flour and then you put it in hot, that hot half inch oil. Kind of almost like a chicken fried steak finger. Right? Dude. That's how we ate our dinner. I, I, all through college. That put me through college.

That's how we ate it. Breaded and flour. We call them finger steaks. But Lowry's. Lowry's. I mean, you can't use enough Lowry's. Season salt. Try it. Try it tonight. I'll cook it for you guys. So my wife from Southern Idaho, when we first started dating, she's like, let's go get some finger steaks. You ought to try them. I'm like, what are finger steaks? That's what they are. Strips, strips of meat. So just cut your back straps thin and then cut them in half maybe once or twice. Well, everybody likes them that way. Like, I mean, I'm, and I'm not, I don't know how heart healthy they are. I'm not dead yet. Well, we used to cook them in bacon grease when I was a kid. Did your family keep that? Yeah. And they keep bacon grease. They kept a can in the fridge. My parents. That's when a buck was worth a buck back then. Yeah. Yeah.

And you, hey, you need to do, you scooped out some bacon grease and that's what you started about everything in your frying pan. Now there's people that throw away pennies and nickels. Yeah. Bronson. Pennies. I didn't say nickels. All right. Round to the nearest five. All right. Let's keep going. Done with that. Zero points in Colorado. Is it worth getting started for sheep, moose, and goat? Yes. A hundred bucks a piece. Whoa. I like it. Unequivocal. Wow. Well, get three and then choose after that and at least you're eligible to draw. Costing you a hundred bucks. I do it. Okay. You do it. You do it for your kids too. Once you get three, you're good. You're right. But they're free until they're 18. So it's a little bit different. It's a no brainer. But this is, guys, let's say you're- But then once you have three, you're in the draw. You're a 30-year-old guy. That's what I like. Okay.

At least you have the option. And it's cheap after that. Okay. All right. Keep going. Go ahead. There you go. Sorry. That's it. Well, I think it's worth it. It's harder to justify. You're right. It is harder. And with their- But you don't have to do it for the rest of your life. A hard way to figure out their weighted point system and how much it really benefits you. It's not like square. It's difficult. So yeah, at least be in the drawing, but it's- It's harder to justify. I know this. I look at the random odds roughly based on number of people with three points and number of tags issued. And it appears that- How's that water? Pure. I like the sound of this. That is a can of monster. All right. Keep going. Anyway, it appears that the odds are better than they are because you're looking at the basic odds. Number of people with three points and the number of people that draw.

And it feels like we have a lot less people draw than should be based on the odds. It feels tougher than it appears on paper, and it's because of this weighted point system. And it's hard to quantify that in your mind. How well does that help you? Yeah. How much does that help you? The only state that does it that way. But having said that, dude, we've got a lot of points. All right. All right. Next one. Moose? No, not so much worth it. Right, Bronson? Bronson, you're a moose guy. I don't see a moose. Right here. He's talking about sheep moose. Well, we were talking about those three together. And you've got max points in Montana, right? We're talking about Colorado. Don't try to get me a question. Think that a guy that has max is pretty important. I'm the facilitator here, and this was a Colorado question. Pretty important if you've got max. Okay. All right. Keep going.

And I won't let it go, but I do have a heck of a hard time. I've even put it. Hey, I'm going to bring this up on the podcast to all you listeners right now. What do you mean? Talking about Montana moose. Chris, delete this. No. Okay. Since you brought up my max points, I struggle every year with where to ever freaking apply. And I put it on a podcast. We were driving back from SHOT Show or wherever in the van. Nobody gave you any suggestions. I said, hey, I'm taking a suggestion from anybody. Tell me where to apply. I'll do it. I didn't get one response. I know. Okay. Somebody out there with a big moose next to someone. Not that I mowed anything. I just, some years it's really hard to, at least you can do points only. There's somebody in a fire station up there that knows about a big moose hanging out in the backyard. I guarantee. You used to have to pick a unit up there, remember?

And I pray I wouldn't draw. I know. Because there wasn't a good one. I know. Non-resist. Now you can at least do points only if there's not a good moose in it. Okay. Moving on. Creasing Oz to hunt. Mule deer. Where? Do you like to increase your odds by hunting horseback in remote backcountry or hunt the desert area with road access and staying mobile for mule deer? Which one and why? It really depends on the state, I guess. You don't have that option in Wyoming. I mean. You hunted horseback on your stone and I hunted horseback in New Mexico. And what was our takeaway? Well, my. Never do it again. We're talking about mule deer here. We're talking about mule deer. Let's keep it focused, Carter. Mule deer's worth it. You're bouncing around to Canada. Mule deer's worth it. Yeah. Mule deer. But it also is the state. You hunt Utah more. I've thrown you off a little bit.

And you hunt Nevada more. So are you going to take horses to Nevada where you hunt mule deer? No. No. No. But Colorado? I would if it was a bull. If you had a horse, you might use it in Wyoming. Chris. Chris hunted horseback in Colorado. Yeah. Didn't you? Or did you? I can't remember. You were going to. You took them. With McKenzie. That's one thing. Yeah. It's definitely one of the things that I've tried. It's on the table and it's always an option. If I feel like the deer are up high, I'm going to take horses. Chris's shirt has snaps on it and he's wearing cowboy boots. That's right. He owns horses. He knows which. And to start putting the saddle on the horse. I'm thinking, am I going to rent horses or llamas? That's what I'm looking for. I'm thinking neither. So I'm thinking I'm hiking wherever I go. I have no choice. I'm allergic. I'll swell up like a balloon. What? To a horse?

Horses. Have you tried a mule? I'd be probably. I don't know. Half burrow might do it. That's a good excuse. I'm going to use that excuse. I'm allergic. I would. I'd be a bad A back in the back country. But I'm allergic. I got any mules? That half burrow might be your best friend. I don't know. I like hunting the desert. But a large portion of the reason why I liked it was I was out alone. You know, it was desert. It was 110 degrees. It was no fun. Low densities. And I was alone. I like that. We're just not, other than Chris, we're not horse guys. There's not a lot of horseback country around here. Yeah. It's just kind of what, I mean, there are people around us that do, but even in Utah, southern Utah, there's the percentage of people that hunt horseback on our general hunt is just still very small.

Compared to Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, it's probably 80% the other way in certain of those units. It's just probably a part of the state you're from and what you grew up doing. And I think a lot of guys that do it like to involve their horses. Like, that's part of the whole experience for them. Yeah. You know, this is what I like doing. I like it. I like the wall tent, the horseback, the whole getting ready, thinking about it and different things. Plus being way back in the back country, you know, and for me, I mean, you know, it's more about the deer size. I want a freaking giant. If you're in an area that 80% of the hunters are using horses, I'd want to be on the 20 where the rest of the 80 aren't. There you go. Maybe. I like it. Wyatt, Josh. Jump in. Horses or not. Desert or not. I definitely prefer not to use horses.

I mean, I grew up hunting a little bit around horses and it just seems like it's a lot longer process. You don't get as much hunting in. Have you ever had a horse wreck? A horse wreck? Mm-hmm. I have had, I have been bucked off horses, if that's what you're going to say. I've never had like anything serious happen. I've never broken arm or anything like that, but. Yeah. I'd rather not use them. Yeah. I'd rather not, but if it's going to get you into the area, you're going to do it. But you're going to do it with somebody that knows their stuff. Yeah. Right? I'm not renting horses. I'm not. And that's just me. But some of the Idaho country, I'd like to go in some of that Idaho country. When I was in Panguich and I had the Dutton and some of these other places, I was a horse owner for about two weeks.

Your neighbor. All right. We're going to digress right into this. Vern got me a horse over there and he's as good as anybody over there. What happened? It got thrown off. Me and my daughter. Okay. Took it for a ride and he offered to let me have it at his place. I live somewhat close to him. So I walked down to his place and I drove down to his place. I rode it up to my house. All right. I'm getting to you. It's like a five-year-old. Pretty old horse. Like butt skin colored. And my daughter, she's probably three or four, five. I don't know. At the time. Five. I'm going to say maybe five. And she asked to go for a ride. And I'm like, okay, well, I guess you can jump on with me and we'll ride it back to where we keep it and then I'll drive you home. Well, so she jumps on and she's on the front of the saddle with me and we start just riding, going down the dirt road.

This is an amazing daddy-daughter experience. Yeah, and I totally remember. I'm being, I'm right now, I'm thinking I'm dad of the month. You're putting it on the calendar, getting lots of points for next time. She's smiling, grinning. And the horse, as we start going, probably picked up on the fact that there's something else up here with me I don't like. And then it realized, where's it going? Back to the barn.

And it started going into a running, full-on freaking buck. And I'm not a horse guy. So my number one thing initially was I'm holding her. Protect your daughter. And I've got both reins with one hand now. This is why we do off-the-cut buck guys. And I am running. It is running. And this is like, this is, it is the full-blown running buck. Okay? I think I'd have had a hard time myself as a greenhorn, shutting this horse down. But now I've got a four-year-old daughter in my arms trying to do it. And so I made the decision. I didn't want her to go off and me stay on. Because then I'm, she's back here hurt, whatever. So we went off together. So I just, at one point, I just let go of the reins. And we went off. We got thrown off together. And she was in my arm. And when we landed, I thought I killed her. I honestly did. Knocked the breath out of her. And she was like quiet, motionless.

And I'm like, until she caught her breath. And then she started going nuts crying. And I'm like, you okay, okay, yeah. And she got up. I honestly thought I crushed her. And the horse ran for a mile. Bucking and the whole way. And I carried her back. My wife said, what happened? I told her. And I says, I'm done. I'm not a horse runner. I'm done. I told Vern. I said, sell it. Never rode it again. Do you have any good recipes for horse meat? No. That's illegal in the United States. Dude, what if you drew an orcs tag? I mean, these things are good to eat. Those are games back. The French. Where's John? The French love horses. You said they're illegal. 1973 Wild Horse and Burrow Act. I'm not eating a horse in this country. I'll be in prison. You guys will be bringing me hungry mans in the freaking clink. I will. I'll crust it up for you. Till the day you die. Horse experience.

I was in Region G one time. Two of them. There's myself and a buddy. And then, you know, I guess we're all friends up there. But anyways, two of them had never been around horses at all. Cameron was there. He hadn't been around horses at all either. And I was the only one with a little bit of horse experience up there. Two of them decided to rent horses. Cameron and I decided to walk in there. So horses, we get all the way up to camp, you know, four or five miles in there, all the way up to camp. And that evening we decided we're going to go glass from camp. And as I'm walking away from camp, me and Cameron were talking, you know, he's going to go this way. I'm going to go that way. We're walking away. And all of a sudden I hear, whoa, horse, whoa, horse, whoa, horse. Just yelling. And I turned around, looked back.

And the guy that was with us there, buddy, he turned the horses loose just to let them free graze. And they got, you know, 10 feet away from him and decided, hey, we're going back to where the trailer is. And they fully saddled horses ran all the way to the bottom of the canyon to where the horse trailer was. And Cameron and I were the only ones that could chase after them. We ran all the way down there picking up pieces of the saddles, pieces of the bridles. Just tack scattered everywhere all the way down this trail to catch the horses all the way down to the bottom where we just came from. Had to, you know, piece the saddles back together and bring the horses all the way back up. Ride one bareback till we got to the other saddle, which was halfway down the trail. Geez, what? You got skills we didn't even know about. Have I? This is reminding me of my other horse experience.

Okay, hold on to that. Keep going. Get them all the way back up there. And so, anyways, we had no idea where we were. And there was kind of snow and ice on the trail, everything like that. So we had no idea. Get back here. Got up in there. And we just get back to camp. And next morning we wake up and here comes four-wheelers by us. We'd ridden these horses in all that long, that ways. Just to know there was a four-wheelers trail 100 yards away from the horse trail. That we'd packed in on. Never again. Never again. Never again. Something that starts on a regular basis. Yeah. Yeah. It's very reliable. We'll not fuck you off. We were done then. Got rid of the horses. Okay. I'm going to tell this very quick story. I think I've told it before. Take your time. But no. I want to get off of horses. Take your time. I love this. I don't like horses. I love this. I don't like them.

But it was on my goat hunt in 2003 in Montana. And I had drawn the tag and involved some wilderness. So we got there three days or so earlier before. My brother lived up there for a couple years and met a friend with all the horses and all that. I'll bring the horses. We got there and hunted kind of the fringe mile or two, three mile in before and couldn't find a good billy to shoot. So, all right, we're going to go in deep. So he shows up with three horses and he's got big, big horse for him, two big horses for me and Aaron. Gets on their saddle this horse. Then he goes in and goes, we got a problem, boys. And we're like, what? I said, I forgot your saddles. You're going to have to ride pack trees.

I must not have said this before. Pack trees? The trees that you hook panniers on, they're just a cross. They're roughed outside, basically. They're wooden. Miserable. So, you would never get on. Not a saddle. Saw buck. Saw buck. All right? And I'm like, what? And luckily, we glassed with a butt pad. So, all we had was put our butt pad that we glassed on right there. And you could go uphill. You definitely couldn't go downhill. Oh, my God. But we'd ride that until we couldn't and get off. And I told Aaron, I said, if we find a billy in here that's been up, we're killing it today and we're walking out in the dark. And we did that night right before dark. We had a horse wreck. And the horse with the goat on it tumbled down the mountain. And we let him out and got out by two or three in the morning. So, I only had one day. Two of the three times you've used horses, you had two horse wrecks.

Yeah. Exactly. So, I did use mules this spring on a bear hunt with my son with Mecham's. And they are totally different. Brunson. Well, yeah. Ty had a problem. Tell that story. That was Ty's problem. Oh, this is classic. It was Ty. Keep going. These things are good, though. You've got the floor for 10 minutes. Keep going. I was told Ty's wanting to buy something. I'm like, yeah, but I don't want to keep them anywhere. But these are like Hollywood horses. They're great. They're amazing. That's right. An actor or actress can get on those, and you'll think that they're freaking John Wayne. Okay. Because these things just, they'll go up, down. This is a good story. You're like man from Snowy River stuff. They will do it. Okay. Speaking of man from Snowy River, go ahead. Well, we're heading home for the day. It's done, hon.

Ty was wearing his pack, and we wear our packs just because, you know, take whatever. Water. But those guys, you know what they take? They take a water bottle. You know, Hunter puts it in his pocket. And a granola bar. He puts it in his pocket, and that's good for the day. All horsemen do it. And houndsmen. Yeah. Houndsmen. Houndsmen can live. If they eat a candy bar in front of their dog, they think that's unfair to their dog to let them sit and do it. So they don't do it. So. And they'll share half their water bottle with their thirstiest dog, and then they'll take the last swig. Anyway. Well, Ty, while he's riding, decides to take off his pack, off his back, bring it to the front of him, and try to unzip and get some treats out while he's riding. While he's riding. Well, that mule didn't like that, and he took off on a running freaking buck around the corner out of our side. Right.

While Hunter and Wade are just yelling, throw the pack, throw the pack. And the last thing is running around the corner, I see his pack thrown out into the trees. And we go around the corner, and he's just sitting on his mule. I was like, yeah, calm down since I got rid of that pack. So that pack was bouncing. Well, it's just. Yeah. And he had done it two or three times during the day. But then once it gets bouncing, you're not going to quit it. It's exacerbating every jump. So anyway. Just. We. The moral of this story. Other than Chris Peterson. We are all four and one. The diehard cowboy. We are not. That's us. You can laugh at us, and it's not going to change. You're not going to make. Back to the question. Increased odds to hunt horseback in remote backcountry. Or hunt the desert with roads. I'm on a road. Desert with roads. What's Wyatt's famous quote? What?

Big deer live by the road. They do. They do. They do. All right. They do. We're moving off the horses. Equine session over. That was freaking awesome. How far into this are we? Probably. This has been amazing. That's probably almost a full podcast. Yeah. We're an hour and eight minutes in. Let's keep going. Let's make this an extended. Francis. We've got an extended. You've been drinking water. Not even monster. I've been off. I've had one today. It's been the first one in about 10 days. It's lunchtime. It's lunchtime. All right. Keep going. This is something we don't always want to talk about as Hunter. Cassidy writes in. Says, have any of you guys lost a trophy animal or haven't been able to retrieve it? And what things you do to search for it and when to call it quits? And you're right. Those aren't. That's not a sexy topic to talk about. So who wants to talk about it?

We've all gone through it. Well, I can. We all can. You want to put it on me? Let's try Josh. Should we tap Josh? And we're not. Anything.

Anything either you, family member that you've lost. If it hasn't happened to you yet, it's going to happen to you or your family member. You know, it's one of those things. And it can really mess with your head. And I've seen some crazy stuff. You know, some deer that have shot and dropped in their tracks and you celebrate. And anyway. We did that with John. Smashed it. Walked over there. Blood everywhere. Yeah. Deer got up and walked away. No fun. That was not a fun experience. And you track them and pretty soon you go long enough. No blood. And you go long enough and then you replay the footage. You're like, yeah. It just, it grazed his backbone. Above the backbone. It jared him. On that one. If it would have broke it, he would be laying there. And so he's going to live. He's going to be fine. In the case where you don't have a video.

I mean, I've been in situations like that a couple times. One. This is a story I probably haven't told you guys either. Probably 95 or 96. I love podcasts. 95 or 96. I was with my dad in New Mexico. Packed in a wilderness there hunting elk. And back then, it was before fiber optic pins. Remember just the brass pins? Hated them. Brass. I used to take white out. Well, you take white fingernail polish. White out. Yeah. I took fingernail polish. And you think you're doing something and you're not doing anything. But that period between sunset and legal shooting hours 30 minutes after, it was pretty marginal with brass pins. And you're shooting through a peep. And I called this bull in. And when you're like right out of high school or I don't remember, 20-ish, 22, I don't know, young. Let's say 96. Let's say he's a low 300-inch bull somewhere. But he seemed freaking giant. Right?

I called this thing, crosses meadow, just. And he's coming in. And I'm just like, holy crap, this is going to happen. And I draw back 20, 30 yards and I can't see one of my pins. I can't see him. But it's light enough. I should be able to see. You also might not have a big old hole in your peep. Yeah. You might have had a tighter peep. Who knows? What I had. Or your string was turned, maybe. Yeah. I don't know. It wasn't there. I couldn't see him. I mean, I'm even going away from that thinking I won't look to the peak. And I'm like, I just can't see him. It was just timber. But I can see plenty good. It's evening. And I made the decision. It just shoot instinctive. Just poof. Instinctive. But how close was it? 20, 30 yards. Yeah. I'm just like, all right. Let it rip. It's finger release. I mean, this is all those days. And he takes off running. And I can see that arrow. High shoulder.

And it went in. Deep. But I'm like, that ain't happening. And I spent... I told my dad I was sick that night. So I blew the chance of a lifetime. Bull of a lifetime. You know, looking back, I know it wasn't a giant bull. But it ruined my hunt. Because I looked for that bull for two days. I tracked it all the next day. Bet it a couple different times. But just knowing about what you know about elk. And when you hit one high shoulder... Especially now. You're older now. Yeah. You're doing justice thinking you're going to find this thing and all that. And that just... I saw the arrow and I knew. That bull's rutting. And you don't even know it. But so I went to the extreme. This changed my life for about five years. So what did I do? I went back. You went to longbow. I shot a recurve. I'm like, I'm never going to rely on sight pins the rest of my life. So what did I do?

Instead of just learning to shoot my compound instinctively? No. I had a recurve built. And after about five years and killing like one animal, I said, yeah, I'm going back. I want to kill stuff. I'm going back. And they have fiber optic. I've got other equipment now. So it's hard. It's hard to lose an animal. Did you use wood arrows or what did you... No, it was aluminum. I wasn't quite like my dad. Yeah. XX75s. But I think one of the things is look, actually. That's one of my biggest pet peeves. And you see it in Colorado a lot. Guys will shoot at something and they never... If it rolls off. Never go check. You know, I don't know if it's because people watch movies or what, but they just think, well, if I shoot something, it's going to drop. It's not here. It doesn't drop. It's not here. I'm going to shoot another one. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't...

You know, and I was a game warden for a long time and you would just find stuff dead. Good shots. And somebody would find it later. The birds would get on it and you'd go check it. And we chalk it up to poachers, but really it's just an unethical hunter. And I'm sure... I know there's some counties, especially here, maybe where Jason was from, there's a lot of ground checking goes on. What are you... Bro, that was a low blow. Okay. You're right. Keep going. But you just don't know. You don't know. And you kind of... And I think that's what everybody thinks is, oh, somebody ground checked this deer or whatever. But if you tied a 26 inch or five inch four point on a general unit, nobody's probably ground checking that. But it's just... It ran off and it was double on. Yeah, it ran off. But I don't know how many times I've seen that. People don't go check their shot.

And even if you know, say, I've missed that deer. Or you go check, at least to start. Because I just... I see a lot of people that don't. And it drives me off the wall. No, and they should be charged with wanting to waste of wildlife. Yeah. They should be. Because odds are they've hit it. There's a lot of people that don't do anything. If they physically don't watch it go down, they'll just be like, I didn't get it. You know, third season when we were there in Colorado, we'd just go on driving roads, driving roads in the snow. I'll bet we crossed three or four different sets of elk tracks that had blood in them. And not good blood. And I mean, animals can bleed and not die. It doesn't mean just because animals bleed, it's going to die. A lot of times you're like, I wonder if people followed that up or whatever, you know.

And it almost made me think, I wonder if we have to stop and follow that into the trees, you know, or whatever. But I guess that's my only thing is... And then go... And here in Utah, they'd follow it and tag it. Yeah. All right. Keep going. Found it. But I... And I think a lot of times guys give up too early too. And I've been there myself. You know, if you go a couple hundred yards and you've... Oh, I've went a mile. If it's 80, 80, 90 degrees out, sun's baking you and it's bleeding, you know, you pick up a spot every, you know, 40 or 50 yards. It's hard mentally. But my son... But you owe it justice. Oh. You owe the animal justice and you're hunting. You let the arrow go or the bullet go. You owe it. And it's hard to know when to call it quits. Yeah. But you finally just know, but you got to come with that resolution yourself. But you got to give it some effort. Yeah. Want to talk...

Well, anyway. I want to tell a story, but I want Devin to tell his story. The Colorado bull. That's the one I wanted to tell. That one. And then also Devin has that other story about this deer down here where a guy wasn't even going to go. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That happened. I... There we go. I shot at a buck. I thought I was alone. Anyways. I think I'm alone now. May have hit it. Who knows? Anyways, I go up and I'm like track and track. Same thing, you know? Yeah. And I'll come back to that, but I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is once you shoot or before you shoot, you need to mentally prepare yourself to take every note, watch every... Reaction. ...get as much information as you can, like where the thing runs, where the buck or bull, whatever it is, where it goes, because that information is just huge once you start tracking. If you can't remember any of that, it's tough.

But anyways, I get up there. I'm going along and all of a sudden, kaboom, right above me. Somebody shoots. And I go up to where the buck was bedded. And he's like... You know, he just said, I missed him. He's gone. You know? Which way did he go? Because this guy was coming down. Anyways, 30, 40 yards. I look over and red rocks. Blood everywhere. Buck's 20 yards away. Dead. Dead in the door. Your buck or his buck? The buck he killed. The buck I... Yeah, the same deer. The buck he was after. You had missed it. Yeah. Yeah. But he thought he had missed it or chalked it up to a miss. Wasn't even going to go look. Didn't even walk over there. He was leaving. And you walk over there in the buck's dead. Did you go catch him? I said, this is the bed. I said, yeah, that's where he was. And I walked him. See his track? That's right. That's right. I remember that.

The thing went 30 yards without bleeding. But, I mean, most of the archery bucks I've killed, they go 50 or more yards without having any blood. But then he bled everywhere. Oh, yeah. It was... He double-unged him. This is a muzzleloader, like... Buck went 40, 50 yards. Yeah. So, I think it just depends on the situation. The back to the question. Yeah. It just depends on the situation. It does. It's not an easy answer. Tell us about that elk in Colorado. It's admirable, Archibald, what you went through this year. It was not fun. We didn't like to check in with you at night during that hunt because we figured you would tell us when something good happened. We didn't want to ask you if something good had happened. Yeah. That group chat just kind of went dead. Yeah. It was kind of quiet. So, you were hunting elk. Well, hunting elk. And it was the very, actually, opening day.

And I had seen the bull in the morning. He had vetted. Went up. Anyways, the thing's all by himself. It's perfect, right? He's quartering to me a little bit. This is with Archery. So, I remember thinking, just hug that shoulder a little bit. Hug that shoulder. I mean, everything was perfect. Shot. Smack. You know? And I'm like, I've done it enough. Now, I'm not even celebrating. I know it was good. You knew it was good. Yeah, I knew it was good. The thing, I'm making mental notes about where he's going. I get up. I mark where I was standing. But you're not celebrating because you know. I don't celebrate. Because you know. You know. Who knows what happens, right? Exactly. It's never over until it's over. Yep. And you've got to cover all your bases like I mark where I was so I can line everything up. You don't want to get him amped up by screaming and hooting and hollering. No.

I get up there. I find maybe, I don't know, eight inches of the veins, the arrow. And then I see him. He went all the way across his val and he's hobbling his front shoulder. Anyways, long story short, I watch him until dark. He's bedding, getting up bedding. I had center punched that shoulder bone. Broke his shoulder. That's what's amazing to me. You broke it. Oh, yeah. With an arrow. Completely gone. It's gone. Broken half. Pretty amazing. And then the other, the part of the shaft on the broadhead is still in his front of his right lung. So I'm like, okay, I'm going to give him overnight. Go there the next morning. And I glass him. And he's the same thing. Same story. Bedding. Bedding. Standing up. Bedding. Standing up. He can't. Yeah, he's got three legs. So this is where I have to make a choice. Do I sit here and watch him for. Do I stalk in there and push him? Yeah.

And so I'm looking. Run the risk of pushing. I'm taking wind calculations. Anyways, I have a perfect line. And I think I can get about 50 yards. And I got to that exact spot. And all I could see was one time. And I'm sitting there waiting. Wind changed. Thing takes off. So that sucks. Now it's real bad. Now he's. He's got a full lung that's good. And he's running. And luckily, I could get to a place. And with the guy who's helping me, he could see too where he was going. And about the first half a mile, he went. I mean, he was going good. Three legs, they can go like it's nothing. And one lung. And half a lung. Yeah. One half of a lung. So anyways, by the end, I'm watching his body language. And he's bedding, getting up, bed, getting up. He could only go. You're watching him through glass? Through glass. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, you could see him with your eyes.

But he couldn't go more than 100 yards. And so now that I don't know exactly. Now he's in this thick canyon. Now I don't know exactly where he is. I don't go in there at all the next day. That's the second day of the hunt. You let it go till dark. So there's just glass again. The end of day two now. All of day two, he went in. So that was in the morning. And then all of day three, I gave him a full day.

And so because I don't know where he is. I don't want to go in there yet. Yeah, you're glassing for him, but you're not. Yeah, the only thing is my advantage is time, which sucks. That's the worst. I mean, I felt like I didn't sleep for days. Anyways. So now morning of day four? Day four, yeah. Just I go in there. But you glassed and still can't see him. Can't see him. So you're like, I'm going to have to go jump in, smell him, something now. Yeah. But I know, you know, he's got three legs. He's probably not going to go up far. And he doesn't want to bed. You know what I mean? It hurts him to lay down. Yeah. So anyways, I kind of had a feeling of just looking at the terrain where he's going to be. And I bet I walked 100 yards from the road where I parked. And I look down, he's standing there. Staring at you? Looking the opposite direction. The opposite? He hadn't heard you yet.

No, he had no idea. But he was standing there in the sun because he couldn't. I mean, he was in bad shape. He wouldn't have. But anyways, got another arrow in him. And this thing keeps going. Three legs in front of me. And I'm running, running, running like John Lastomohican style. Just desperate. The elk are so tough. And I come over the last tries. He's about 20 yards. And now you got him. And that's when he took flight off of ledges. This bull, this is no joke. This bull, I shoot him. And it's over. Like smoked him. He's got three holes in him now. Good holes. Yeah, good holes. He looks down the trail away from me. He kind of looked in front of him. And he looked at me. And then he walked straight towards this just cliff. And he just disappeared out of my sight. Jumped over. He didn't just. Yeah, he jumped. He didn't stumble off. He didn't stumble off. He wasn't doing the dead walk.

He made the conscious decision. I'm going to try to jump off this and stick the landing and take off. He says, I can't go this way. This guy's behind me. I'm going here. And he just walked and disappeared. How far? It was about 80 feet. He took a nosedive. 80 feet. He went out of my sight. And it was silent for like a good portion of a second. And also crash. Yeah. And I thought, well. At least he's ten raised. I heard that relief in your heart. At least he's dead. Yeah. He is dead. Oh, my gosh. I got him. I was so relieved. I didn't care if he was nubs. Broke up or whatever. But he wasn't. Right? He wasn't. He wasn't. He landed in between two boulders and bounced to the bottom. Good. He's all there. But. It was a good story. I mean, that stuff happens. And it's going to happen to you. It's no fun to talk about, though. It isn't. And it's the reality of hunting. And it's.

That was commendable. It was three days later, Archibald. You killed that bull. It was pretty awesome. It is awesome. I mean, that's a story with it. I mean, looking at that bull now in your house or wherever. Yeah. There's a lot of reverence when something fun that you get a chance to actually make a right. People look at the big rock scratches on his antlers. What happened here? Well. Leave those on. It's a whole part of it. It's awesome. Remember, I had one of my kids. Yeah. Bronson, you were there. I was there. And he. Grounded. Well, and it was awesome. Archery deer hunting. Made an incredible stock. Incredible. Got right on him. It was picture perfect. And anyway. Just.

Shot. Just. Just two seconds maybe before he should have. I watched the whole thing go down. And. He ended up having to track this deer. And he tracked him five miles on his own. It was five miles. And. We ended up where we lost his track. And he quit bleeding probably. You know. Let's call it. Almost a half mile prior. And we just tracked him by track. And he did. He did. Dang near all of it. I only helped him in some tough spots. You were a support kind of dragging. Well. I'm teaching him. To the next road when he crossed something. Well. Part of it is just. You know. You know. We've all been there. Just like what you guys said. We've all been there. Nobody likes talking about it. And I'm thinking. This is a good learning experience. Like. A. If you wait two seconds. You're a hero. And you don't have to deal with five miles of tracking. You know what I mean. And then the anguish.

You know. Insight. You just. There's a. Like Adam said. There's a reverence. And you feel bad. You want a clean kill. And you don't want something to suffer. So all of these things are going into your mind. And. And so. Anyway. They tracked him. Him. Him and his. Cousin. They tracked him five freaking miles. And. And. And was sick. I mean. Just wasn't filling up. Not mean. Not meaning physically sick. Like. Was dealing with the cold. And. Just wasn't fun. Right. Heat. And whatnot. Anyway. They took it to the very end. Couldn't track him anymore. Track. Got in with other deer. And it was obvious. This deer was going to live. It was obvious. It was bounding. Bounding. When you jump him out of a bed. So. Anyway. Stuff like that happens. At some point. There is no option. You have to quit. There's no more track. You can't track him anymore. Anyway. I don't know. What to add to that. Wyatt.

Wyatt. You've tracked some of these. I've done some tracking. You've done a lot of guiding. Yeah. I've done some tracking. Cursed by white-tailed deer. I have had some white-tailed deer get away. But that's. I forgot about that. Let's talk about it. That is kind of. It's kind of my heart breaks with that. I've either clean missed. Or. Or been able to kill. So. Wow. So that's it. That's the whole story. No. I could tell stories about white-tailed deer. All right. All right. They're not that interesting. But you have tracked wounded animals. Yes. I've tracked plenty of wounded animals. When do you quit? Through guiding. When do you quit? That's hard. It's hard to say. Every. Every animal. Every situation. I think is going to be different on that. On when it is the time to. To pull the plug on it. Okay. Yeah. It's true. Give it more than 15 minutes. Give it more than you think you should.

And then you've. Then you can feel good about it. Don't. Don't leave prematurely. For whatever reason. It'll eat at you. So. Let's end on. Two more questions. Oh. Well. I was just thinking maybe just a nice. That'll be. That'll be the very end of it. These are going to be quick. You're going to keep us going. Just two quick ones. Bronson's a grinder. Well. All right. I don't want to have to do three or four podcasts to finish all these. Two. So I'm trying to get it done in two. So. All right. Why does Jason take so long to decide if he's going to shoot a big buck or not? You skipped a question. All right. I know. I thought this would be an easy one. Rude. All right. Why does it take you so long? It doesn't take me that long. It doesn't. But this particular one probably is coming back from that Colorado buck in 2018. And that was. I was there for three hours. Like I did.

It was a Josh Pollock hunt. Yeah. I was there for three hours. I basically had not hunted that much. And I'm thinking. This is going to. This unit is going to be incredible. Yeah. And I don't want to shoot too early. What if. I shoot one. And then you smash a 240. I shoot a bigger one. And we see a couple of 230s. I'm going to feel bad about that. Did you just hear what you said? I don't know. What if I shoot a 207. Bronson shoots a 240. And we see a bunch of 230s. And I'm going to be mad. This is 28. What else is going through your mind when you just. This is the kind of stuff we hear every day. Come out of that corner office. What are you talking about? You're brave. You guys got me in the corner for a reason. Yeah. I'm on. You're tired of hearing about it. I'm on an average unit in Colorado. I'm going to shoot a 207. I'm going to be ticked. Because Bronson shoots a 240.

And we see other multiple 230s. I just feel. It felt so. I was just amped up, man. I don't know. What are the chances that would happen? And I wanted him. Okay. Here's another thing. That's an optimist. That buck was. Let's call it 83 yards. Okay. Don't. It's hard to judge him. It's hard to judge him that close. Like I'm good at judging him at 300 and 400 yards. Yeah. From phone scope video, whatever. But to judge him when they're standing next to you. Rutting a doe at 100 yards is with 10 power. Because, you know. Yeah. Whatever you got. And I can see every little fault that he had. I'm thinking, really, how long are his G2s? Like, really? What am I really looking at? Yeah. Am I just excited? He's a rutting body. Have you ever seen Colorado deer? They're like 300 pounds. Yeah. You know what I mean? Rutting Colorado body. They're just giant bodied.

And I just want to make sure what I'm looking at. It's hard to know. And you, in that case, you had him dead to rights. Like, he wasn't getting away. It felt like. Like, this was not. No. Across the canyon at 500 yards. You'd have shot him there. Because you'd have had your. But then he started. They started to filter up the hill. And then I heard a side by side. And then it got a little more scary. He shot him. And I was like, then what I thought is, if a guy on a side by side shoots over me. Would I be mad? And smashes this deer. Would I feel bad? Yeah. I'm going to feel bad. Boom. Yeah. Dead. Boom dead. Okay. Okay. So, anyway. I don't know. Big deer, big deer. And it doesn't really take that long. But there are some cases. There are some cases. Depends on the situation. Go ahead. No. I'm just saying. I'm glad to know we were talking about that deer in 2018.

And not like Nevada this year. Colorado this year. Anything like that. Go ahead. Go ahead, Josh. What do you mean? Walk me through this line by line. You're so rude. I'm just saying. Sometimes guys see some stuff on Instagram. I was thinking about this buck. But only they could see the group text sometimes. Yeah. That's the stuff that comes through. What I was going to say. The group text. What do you see in there?

Delete that.

Sometimes Carter's the only one that says no. There's some nice. Well, the thing is. There's some nice bucks out there. But I also want to maximize. You guys are the same way. You guys are the same way. You want to maximize these and whatnot. Am I wrong? No. I'm more of a realist. I'm impressed at your restraint, though. I think because a lot of times we were talking about it even this morning. Just a video we'd seen. You know. What you might see in your mind. And the time. And what's happening here. And what this was versus what it actually was. Or whatever. And that's what I. I amazed at your restraint to just bring reality. He doesn't get wound up. Carter doesn't get wound up. Exactly. Your restraint to just not. I did when Bronson said you're a dummy. Shoot that buck. I didn't say that. Yeah, basically. And then I did. If you're going to quote me, you've got to quote me.

What did you say? Don't quote my general. What did you say? Are you stupid? I said no. I said. Well, I wish I was hunting with you right there. Because I would kill the deer. I know. I didn't say you're a dummy. What I heard is you're a dummy. No. Because if I was there. And you'd be like. Bronson, you should shoot that deer. And I'm like. You don't want it? No. Okay. Boom. That's how it would go. A few of those videos you've sent. Those bucks would never be live video. They would be kill photos in the message. That's right. So that's all I'm saying. I always say. If I have to sit back and really think about it. The answer should probably be no. Yeah. But I've gone against that before. I've been happy. And then I've gone against it. And then I've gone against it. Happened to me in Idaho this year. Happened to me in Idaho this year. I went back. And you're happy. Bronson.

So I think that negates what he's talking about. You went back and we're happy. Yeah. I was. Right. And sometimes think about it's okay. Yeah. Yeah. I used to say if I think about it, I'm not going to pull. You used to say that. And now you don't. Because you've seen a lot. I got closer to a buck this year. I got closer again. And I killed it. I was glad I got closer. Boom dead. Yeah. That's right. Well, and there's, like I say, you guys, I take a lot away from you guys too. Like, I can't believe some of the patience you all have. And then, and Bronson, I don't know. I hate to talk out loud about how many days you spent in the field. But it is not. It is. I had a lot. Sometimes it does take that. And knowing somebody else is going through 20 days of pain and agony helps you go through 20 days of pain and agony.

And actually, I'm like, if Devin was here, he would turn his phone off and tell me he didn't have service. And I actually did that. I incorporated that into my life a few days. And then I got to where my addiction kicked back in and I need to see what the world was doing.

And if you're going through a grinder and you see a, we'll call it a marginal buck, whatever that is, or bull for where you're at, there's a lot more apt that that deer is going to die after 15 days of grind than if it was on day one. Well, that's just that deer in Nevada we're talking about. I'd been there for multiple days and it had been a grind and he showed up in 15 minutes. The first buck. Yeah, the first buck he's seen. So for me, being there and experiencing it, I'm like, what is, what are you doing? I'm like, where are you guys at? What's the problem here? When I got back to camp and we survived that rainstorm, I was like, what? Why were you even videoing this deer? You know, but I'd had a little experience of being there and I don't know. But also, dude, I'm in tennis shoes. I just barely rolled in. Oh, I had a deer that happened like 12 years ago for me in Colorado.

I pulled in, I'm pulling a trailer. Oh, yeah. And the buck's staring at me off the road. It's Sunday night of the third season. The hunt's on and I'm locking it up. You haven't even ridden. My guns, I'm just getting to the unit and I'm like, what? I'm looking like a 32-inch buck. Didn't you have a little pop-up tent trailer? Yeah, pop-up trailer. And I'm like. Jackknifed it coming to a stop. And I'm like, what?

Pavement. Well, A, it's your own pavement. B, what is the boundary? Is it the paved road or is it the river? Or the creek bottom? I don't know off the top of my head. And then am I on public or private? Oh, it's public. I should really pay attention. But by then, I already slipped away and it's getting dark. And I'm like, all right, men will know. And it was like three days later. 200-incher. Yeah. Or one high 90s. Aaron kills it. Yeah. It was like, wow. So stuff can catch you off guard. But anyway. I think that's a good. You know what I took away from that story, too? Don't overlook paved roads. Okay. It's one thing to have dirt roads. Pavement. But sometimes people are not hunting paved roads at the crack. Take case in point. Hamlin Valley, Southwest Desert Elk. There have been a lot of bulls. Shot off of it. Eight in the morning off the main dirt road. Nothing but sagebrush.

Might as well be pavement. That's like the main artery. 60-mile-an-hour road. It is. Whatever. And there's been giants taken right off the main road. So while we're talking about backcountry and places people might not hunt often, a lot of people don't hunt off paved roads. Sometimes there's big deer there. Or the last one. Well, you think about it. Most of them, they've been driven past in the dark because they're going to where they're going to go hunt. So there could be those areas. This was a prime time 20 minutes before dark. Who's looking right off a highway? Who will? So I was just getting to the unit because luckily by daylight set up a tent trailer before it got real dark. That story caused me to hunt a paved road this year. I stopped and started, stopped and started all the way down this big canyon. And what did I see? Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

One of the biggest bulls I ever saw killed was out there. And the guys, what happened? They got a late start on their morning. Talking Southwest Desert. I think that was probably with you. Well, it was either with you or Garth, but. I think it was Garth. Okay. It was Garth. So anyway, these guys had woke up late or something. And they're rolling down the main road. And there's a 392 bull off the main road. Freaking heavy. And it had, it's the most massive bull I've ever seen. And here we are going in obscure places within the unit trying to outthink everything. Sometimes you just don't outthink the rut. They don't even think. They don't even think. They're just looking for a hot cow. They're trailing the one cow that matters. Remember, it could happen any time when you're doing that. You've got to be ready. Let's finish with your. Oh, okay. We'll start that later. That's a big question.

Let's lead with a little light-mindedness if we haven't had enough of that already. Carter, what's your question? Well, I was just thinking this. It's for you. It's another one for you. Well, it just made me laugh. Where's that? For Mr. Carter, would you rather be a Democrat for a month or punch Mr. Bronson in the face one time? First off, anybody that calls me Mr. Bronson, I don't like you. What do you mean? I'm not that old. That's respect. No, it ain't. That's respect. Hey, we have a landowner that comes in and he's Mr. Carter, Mr. Bronson. He's very respectful. Yeah. Bronson. We nearly saw half of this earlier in the podcast anyway. What? Punch in the face. I thought there for a minute. We were going to have to sit between you two. Did we argue? Did we? Not at all. What part? I don't know. Well, we've been around. I want to know how deep our friendship is right now. Deep. On record.

Our friendship's deep. Dude, we've been. So is that safe to assume that you will be a Democrat? I would never punch you. Awesome. But I would never be a Democrat. Hey, you got to choose one. It's a would you rather game. I would probably rather lightly punch you and ask for forgiveness. Bronson, how could you be a Democrat? Who could be a Democrat? Hey, 30 days. You just don't tell anybody for 30 days. You believe in no border. You believe in no guns. You believe in all these terrible bad things. Tell me one thing they stand for that's good. You're treating your neighbor. Give me one. Give me one. And you're also, you're talking about all those things, but you're also not treating your neighbor as yourself. As you like to be treated. You punch them in the face. All right. Well, let's go Brandon.

Not Brandon. Let's go Brandon. There's a funny side note to that. When he sent that to us, he got a warning from Instagram. He did. Did he really? Yeah. It said something like. Just from the direct message? Oh, yeah. It said, be careful. The things you message somebody. Are being watched and we know everything you do. This is a violent, violent comment. And I just said nothing like big brother listening to everything he said. Are you kidding me? I'm not kidding. That's my point. That's a Democrat in action. That's a Democrat in action. Not kidding. Yeah. Listen. Listen. You don't know if they were mad about the offense to Democrats or the offense to be bit and punched in the face. But what they're saying. State to Zuckerberg. The programming says this. They may not have cared about me. If there's the word Democrat and punch in the face. It goes straight. Zuckerberg flagged.

And it's common. It's a common thing that's happening and they need to put a stop to it. That's what I'm taking away. Chris. Let's do a keyword some more. Let's go Brandon. Let's see if we get flagged again on that. Let's test it. If we have anything keyword. Let's go Brandon in our post on Instagram. I'll bet we do. I've had friends test it and it's shocking. I will say this. We have some Democrat listeners. I know we do. Because we get feedback. We get feedback. This guy might have been one. I don't know. Who was it from? But in my mind. And I'll be done with it. We'll be done. Because this doesn't need to be political. Right? Bronson. And I did have a guy say if Bronson won't talk politics I will message me. And I appreciate that. I just. All I said is I hate watching the news and I don't want the news. And you try to keep things going down a hunting road. And I like that.

And I don't watch the news because I'm sick of it. Angry. I am sick of it. And the news is. I'm sick of COVID. I want to be beyond it all. I want to be blue skies, rainbows, and butterflies. Not rainbows. Boss. Well. Not rainbows. Pretty weather. Whatever. Okay. Puffy clouds. How's that? Puffy clouds. Where was I going with it? Butterflies. We're talking about Democrats. We do have listeners and you were going to put them at ease. I was going to put them at ease because I believe the definition of Democrat has changed drastically in the last five years for sure. 10 to 15. We weren't that far apart 10 to 15 years ago. They didn't. I still think we were. There was quite a difference in what we believe in. Having said that, there's been a monumental change recently. And I don't know how you could be a Democrat and feel good about everything that's going on. The last question.

And this is an A or a B answer. I don't want to punch you. So anyway, keep going. So the answer is that you will become a Democrat for 30 days versus punching you. Lightly punch and ask for forgiveness. And you being a good God-fearing man would forgive me. All right. Keep going. I think we're done. That was it. I feel great that you wouldn't punch me. I just, now I know where we stand on everything. Business, life, family, pursuit of life, family, pursuit of happiness. That's where we're at here at Epic Outdoors. We got snow on the ground. We're happy. We're going to go out and have some Mexican food. We'll do another one of these next week, Chris. We've got plenty to go through. Appreciate you guys sending these in to us. We do. And we'll get to the rest of them. Appreciate you. Yeah. It's gave us some good things. I've learned a lot about you guys. I thought I knew you.

I thought I did. Bronson, I've known you for 20 years. I've learned a few things. Well. Devin. Wyatt. Josh. I've learned a lot. I love the stories. There are some others that are good animals that other stories will bring out the best of us in stories. So we'll do it again here in another week. And until then. Stay dry.