EP 224: Q&A Part 2, Hunting for Real Estate with Blayne St. James

Find Carter a good antelope property in eastern Colorado. He's in. How do you quantify this is worth glassing, but this isn't? What would you suggest to someone who's pretty much starting over applying for a new species with zero points? Anything to do with western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, Chris Peterson coming here from southern Utah. It's a sunny day today, although Bronson... For a minute. We're supposed to be having weather. It said 100%. When it says 100%, small animals die. Yeah. When's that going to happen? You've said that, and I've lived through it easily. Yeah, but you're not a small animal. Well, you said lots of people and kids. Anyway, but anyway. There has been. It's nice to see anything 100%. It should be good. Flooding. You know, we need it. We need rain. We need sleet. We need freezing rain. We need snow. That's right. Bring it. All kinds of stuff. Anyway, here we are. Another podcast. We got kind of a cool podcast. We're going to be calling a supporter of ours and visiting with him a little bit and how his hunting season went.

Before we get started on that, though, we do want to thank Under Armour. We appreciate them and their support here at Epic Outdoors. They're supporting us. Again, Bronson, another long time to come. It looks like we've had some meetings with them and appreciate them and their support and everything we got going. And we're also, Bronson, maybe we should kind of tee off the fact that we are selling a new optic, even company maybe, as well as some tripods. That's right. Tee it up. Revic. You guys know what we're talking about? It's one of the best, appears to be, from everything we've checked out and tested it. Josh has done a lot of our testing. Appears to be one of the best rangefinders out there. It's a smart rangefinder, but the way the laser's shaped and the speed of it and being able to alter the wind on the fly to help with your calculations, everything's pointing

to a first-class piece of equipment. That's right. And brought to us, I guess, by the folks at Gumworks, but Revic is the brand. They're branding this under. They're also making tripods, some lightweight backpackable carbon fiber tripods. They're awesome. We're going to start getting some of those, as well as some of the medium or all-around size tripods. They're kind of our daily use tripods. You know what? It doesn't have the center post, which I like, but it's still, Bronson, even you, you're six foot, what, two, three? Something, yeah. And you can stand flat-footed and glass. That's right. And boots. And so, anyway, it does have, you know, different, you know, twist. What do you call it, Bronson? The twist? Yeah. The legs? What I like. What I'm used to, rather than clips, I guess. Yeah. When you're in a quick hurry, that's how my hands work, because I've done it so long on

twist and push and pull, instead of the clip open. But anyway. Well, anyway, when we started checking them out, we just realized we're all going to have them. There's no question they're better, and it appears to be better than what we've been using. Well, and we've got some worn out stuff, frankly. We use our stuff hard, and it doesn't last forever. Some tripod legs start falling apart, pins start coming out, and your legs come out in pieces in the field. Sounded like that's happened. Yeah, I can bring it in, show you. Yeah. And the feet, the feet wear out, just little stuff. I mean, you can, those are all things. I have JB welded rubber feet stuff on the bottom of mine, too, because pretty soon it's shredded carbon fiber starts splintering off on the ends when your feet fall off. Gorilla glue. I use that, too. Yeah. All that. Anyway, so if you want some of that stuff, we do have them.

We actually have range finders in stock that are incredible. I would put it up against the six hour, and we sell those, too. So I can't believe it. They're pretty impressive. They're awesome. And then we got dozens of these tripods. Anyway, pretty impressive. All right, Bronson, what are we talking about today? Well, you may remember, and I think, Chris, you've already posted this. The podcast is posted. Part one of the Q&A podcast that we did last week is posted online. If you haven't listened to it, this is just a continuation of that. We're Chris opening it up on our social media. Q&A, ask us questions about anything. I don't want to say anything because, you know, although we did get questions last week about would you rather punch me in the face or be a Democrat for 30 days? So there were some stuff like that. Stumped me. Stumped me. That hurts. Well, I mean, who wants to be?

Okay, keep going. We're not going to do politics on this one. No, it doesn't matter. But who? I thought we had already gotten past that, that you were going to become a Democrat for 30 days rather than punch. You said you would not punch me in the face no matter what ever. I know what I said. I would maybe lightly possibly and ask forgiveness in the God-fearing man that you were when you would forgive me. That's what I remember. Okay. I don't know what Chris published, though. He might have edited something. We're going to get back into, why don't you, I was kind of the facilitator last week. I don't know. I could do that. By default, not by self-anointing just, but today. Okay. Why don't you? I got... Why don't you jump in and let's tee it off and go through some of these, you know, Mule Deer questions or whatever we got. We'll go through as many as we can.

And we've got a little feedback after we've done the first one about a few people have emailed us some stuff. Oh, yeah. Like... Go ahead. It was about horse meat. I think you commented once about me. I made the comment that I actually, Carter talked me into applying for Oryx for the first time in my life. I had a big interest and he's like, yeah, I just heard the horse meat's good. It is good. He likened it to horse. They somewhat resemble him, but the meat is supposedly incredible. How does Mustang taste? I'm not... I'm bleeding the fifth. I wouldn't know. I mean, those are protected species. All I know is that's a lot of foods. Okay, that's a lot of food storage out there. If we ever need to eat, we could eat Mustangs. And they say it's actually a delicacy. Jason. What? I don't know who they is. It's also a federally protected animal. So, but James wrote in.

He just wanted us to know about horse meat. He said, hey, I was listening to your podcast. And I remember, you mentioned horse meat. I had a filet of horse meat in Iceland about two years ago. It was delicious. Granted, this was a farm-raised pastured horse, but it was superior to the beefsteak my wife ordered. Most old-time Americans have eaten horse prior to 1970s, because I think the Wild Horse in Burrwack was 1973, so that's a safe answer before 1973. You can get whale steaks in Iceland, too, but I didn't try. The horse meat at the local market exceeded USD prime marbling. On a separate note, I shot a Monster Roosevelt in California. He'll send pictures. So, anyway. Okay, well, congrats on the bull. But, anyway. I don't know. A, I want to know how he knows it was real horse meat. Because when, I mean, it's one thing to have it on the menu, but, like, prove it.

Well, if you're in Iceland and it's red meat, it's just red meat. Because. You're grateful for it. My daughter and her husband traveled there. Really? And it's like, there's caribou there. I don't know of all. And maybe, I don't know of all the. Ungulates. Species. Or, in this case, horses aren't ungulates. But, if it's brown and got red meat, it's on the menu up there. It's on the menu. Because you're not. You're ice. Frozen ice. Winter. Well, like he said, granted, they're in a corral and pinned up and they're raised. Like, I don't know. I just feel like that's different than having a calf. Mustang. Naming the calf and raising the calf to eat it. It just feels different than, you know, cattle versus horses. Chris, how would you feel eating your horse? You'd make you feel sad. Depends on which one. Really? I'm just teasing. There's a couple of me you'd love to put in a stew, huh?

But I always joke about it. I always have food storage out in the backyard. If things got real bad, you know, I could ride off into the wilderness. But wouldn't you feel a little different about a calf in the backyard versus a horse? Yeah, probably so. I agree. Well, anyway, that interesting stuff. Good to know. I wonder how Mustang would taste. Because you're not. It's not like they feed them grain. But you could only eat it out of a crock pot for about 24 hours. Probably not beautiful marbling. It's probably freaking rough, chewy. Tank tread. All right. Anyway, here's another comment. You know, here's a picture of my buck. A little background. I bought my first preference point in Colorado four years ago after listening to the podcast and your advice in the mag. 2019, I burned my points on such and such units. First Western deer hunt. Never saw a four point.

Went 0-4-4 on elk and deer tags. My non-Western hunting father said we should quit. Two days in when we were overwhelmed by the pressure. Stayed till the end. Fast forward. Been going there three years now. It's been a butt whooping. But what a blast. Sohook cannot get enough. You guys had a huge impact on my Western hunting strategy. Specifically Colorado deer. I'm seeing the biggest bucks of my life. All for $100 a year. Congratulations. Appreciate that. CP. All right. Well, jumping into the questions. We do have a question here, Bronson. Rut and mule deer question, which who doesn't like a rut and mule deer? What makes you decide to give up on a group of does during the rut? For example, I spent most of my third season taking the hunting the does approach. We've talked about that a little bit. By revisiting two big doe groups I found on the first two days.

One was right off a major road. Most people couldn't see by just driving by. The other about a half mile back into some BLM. Both spots had 20, 30 does. On any given morning or evening, I bounced back and forth babysitting them.

And only once saw a buck over 130 inches who was running like crazy behind two dudes who ended up shooting a forky in the head right in front of me. Got to love Colorado. I love the digression. I did my best to always be there before sunup, not leave until after dark. But every day. All right. Well, and what could he have done different? What makes you decide that a group of does is no longer worth revisiting? Well, I think part of it, I don't. So we do hunt the does. But I don't hunt like two groups of does. I keep in the back of my mind, and I even put them on Onyx or whatever. I use Onyx. But anyway, put them on there and just reminds me there's does here, does here, does here, does here. And I don't have like a specific routine. Bronson, maybe you have more of a routine than I do. I don't. I'm just thinking I'm in this area. I should check here, here, here.

And it gives me the highlights. And I may hit them once every three days. Not every day. And when you get a year like Colorado, when there was no weather change, no snow change, seven, eight days might not change anything on that hunt. And so I don't know that your scenario right there is something that you couldn't just do again the next year under better conditions or better rut or storm. And boom, there's a buck the second or third day and you crush it. So just because it didn't work this time, it was probably weather and the year unique to that year. There, 20 to 30 does is a lot of does. It is a lot. And one of them is going to come into heat, you think. Yeah. So it just didn't happen. Pressure related, weather related.

You just kind of go with your gut. When you're not feeling a vibe, you move on. But it's all gut related. I've jumped back and checked does and boom, it happens. And I've checked so many does that I don't want to talk about that I've never had a big buck with them again. Anymore, I'm just glad to see Milder. Yeah. Isn't it nice? Like what we, anyway, this last year, it seemed like there was less deer in the field. But having said all that, so I'm the kind of the same way. It's a gut feel year to year. It's a little different. And I do check on the doe groups. But again, we've talked about bucks will travel 10 miles overnight, if not 15 miles in a straight line. And then you wake up that morning and boom, there's a buck standing there. So it's not like you did it wrong. Well, and one point he did mention at the end in context, this is a low point, heavy hunting pressure unit.

I think in a situation like that, it takes a little bit more usually for those bucks to just start poking their nose out and jumping out there on a face with does. Well, we've found too, is they'll rut earlier. Like, for example, northern, you generally get earlier. But also on these low pressure units, they rut earlier. They just like, like we've seen it in Idaho. We've seen it in, well, northern Colorado. You just look at Utah and our limited entry units, the Henrys, the Ponsagon, Oak Creek, all the units that are hunted very light. That's right. They all rut earlier because I think it's pressure related more so. This guy's dealing with pressure. He's also dealing with probably over-the-counter elk tags, which I know he is actually. So anyway, there you have it. I don't know. You can't do anything wrong in the rut. You don't know what's going to happen in the rut.

And a lot of it's dictated moon phases. There's weather, heat, all kinds of stuff. A hot dog can change everything. Obviously, one of them 30 wasn't coming in. And it possibly is due to pressure and different things like that. I don't know if that's a real good answer to that question. So I'm going to move on. And this next one's for you, Bronson. What's your favorite or most memorable? You let me emcee this one. What do you mean? Oh, okay. Bronson, what's your favorite most memorable buck story of your life? For me, I think we've talked about this one on the podcast, but it was your 270s buck in Arizona. It was just one of those, I don't know if we tell the whole story again, but it was one of those hunts that we knew was going to be a grinder. You'd cashed in your maximum points for Arizona, which you get to do once as a non-resident in your life. And it was not in 13A or B,

which 95% of people think that that's where you should have done it. Yeah. And we were out in a large extent learning new country, some of it for the first time. So it's not like we knew of a deer. We didn't know of that deer specifically, but we had great rut dates and all that. And we hunted the does. Yeah, we hunted the rut. We hunted just kind of what we've done talking about. We were finding deer and finding does and got a lucky break and found it early. And then took us two or three days for us to converge and get the deer in the open to where, because it was living in thick pinyon juniper. Like you just, you can get a glimpse of them, but some days when they go into a flat, thick patch of trees, you're better off to let it sit because there's no hunting pressure. Let him come back out. But when he did and you killed that,

walking up on that thing that night and we built a bonfire that night after you killed that deer. Remember, we didn't even start skinning that thing for probably two hours. It's the only time I think I've never been in a rush. No. It feels like I live in a rush. You live in a rush. Yeah, I do. And I think part of it, and we even said this verbally to each other, is this ever going to happen again? We said that, remember? We said, when, if ever, is this going to happen again? And we both kind of knew that it probably wasn't going to, you don't shoot 270, 75-inch mule deer or even with somebody that does it. That just doesn't, on a draw tag, self-guided, by yourself. Man, it was just like, savor it, man. It was a special night. It felt like time, I've said it before, it felt like time stood still that night. It was super cold. Remember, it was negative seven.

Not including wind chill on a four-wheeler. We were riding four-wheelers back in the day. This would have been, what, 2007? 2007. And we were so, I want to call it broke, but we didn't even know how to, we didn't have ski equipment. You should have freaking ski bibs on. Just 30-year-old kids driving 40 miles one way on a four-wheeler and negative six. Yeah, I was. I didn't know that until we got in the, we were driving a Chevy, and then we, you know, checked the temperature. You remember, we could only drive for about five or ten miles, wrapped out 30, 40 miles an hour, and we'd have to stop and put your hands down by your engine. I know. Because it was so cold. You didn't have, we didn't have hand warmer stuff. We didn't have brush guards that got the wind. Remember how bad the sand was? And it's like, and it would just jar the whole truck, shake the whole truck.

Well, I had to replace the rear end in that truck. I mean, it, and I, it was the bearings. They were like, I don't know. The bearings are wrong. Anyway, that one, just the, just the culmination of finding a deer during the hunt and getting it killed. That was a hard part. And he was in flat, thick stuff. And we would get a glimpse enough to keep hunting, but he was going two, three miles. Zinging, like back and forth. With a different doe every day or two. And when it finally happened, it was elation. We'd had a couple good breaks to see him. And you got a glimpse of him the first night after I saw him. You got a glimpse of him that night. The next day, I don't think we saw him at all. So another day, I'm hiking to a glass and mob and jumped him off my knob. And he ran out there. You videoed him. Videoed him a little bit. And then it, then converged and, and we killed him that night.

But it was just, that, that was a, that was a moment that you just, I just knew was probably not going to ever be duplicated in terms of the size of that deer. We got to, you got to live thinking. But I'm not, yeah, I'm not believing that it's not going to. Right. That's, and I got to say, that's, that's, that's my, has to be my favorite. I mean, I don't know. It was just. It felt like we had a governor tag and we were out there by ourselves. A draw tag. Just, you know, just on a, on a deer that wasn't named and by a hundred people and in a great, just a special area. I don't know. Anyway, pretty, pretty awesome. Bronson, when we, when you, he ran by you. The first time we even knew he was in the area, you, you saw him first. He ran by you chasing a doe. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, he just has in lines going. I don't know. He's 15, 32 inch. 30 something plus. Do 15 plus. He's giant.

Get over here. Just get over here. Yeah. And then the hunts began. Yeah. That's the way it kind of went down. Pretty awesome. Yeah. Anyway. And to share it with awesome friends can't, doesn't get any better. All right. Here we go. What's the best glassing and overall approach to hunting mid to late October mule deer hunts in general season zones in stages such as Idaho and Montana? We could throw Utah into that because we're in late, late, late October general. So I don't know the best glassing approach, but I'm getting high and looking long. And I, I spent a lot of time on a general hunt in Idaho. Of course we do here in our home state as well, but in Idaho and I got high and I did find some bucks. Um, but I was looking five miles and it was hard to tell exactly what they were, but, um, I think, I, I think a, and how do you quantify what you're glassing Bronson?

Like, how do you quantify this is worth glassing, but this isn't, that's pretty tough to quantify. Well, and it changes to that time of year, unless you've had a snow or a bunch of weather, an open side hill face to, to glass a mature deer on is not normally where you're going to spot one. They're, they're, they're smart. They're programmed that time of year. They're the smartest that they are in mid to late October before they start thinking about the rut. The summer pattern is kind of faded. They're a lot of times drifted off and they're loners. They're bachelor days. They might still be with some bachelor bucks, but the August, September bachelor time kind of is over and they're just, they're in a, they don't move very much. They have a, usually a very short feeding and bedding routine that time of day or year. So you don't have a lot of chances to glass them on their feet.

They're not moving a lot. So you end up glassing a lot of brush, a lot of timber, mixed timber with brush stuff that you're like, I know this is tough to see a deer in, but you're, you're glassing that some of the tougher than not the obvious places, I guess, where a wide open sagebrush slope there. Now there's exceptions to all that, but that's not the place to see a big mature mule deer in mid to late October, unless you've had snow and all that. And it's a reset button when you get snow. That's right. I was hunting Nevada and it's not general season, but I was, it's all the same. It's right near the Utah border anyway. And we found them like there, when their bitter brush was mixed with the PJ and cedars, like there's a mix in there and, and I glassed up a buck feeding and that stuff and it's super thick, but there was one little knob, like let's call it a 200 footer or something.

I mean, just a littler knob, but still gave you enough elevation. And I think that's probably key is for, for me, you can get on the highest knob and, and, and you can, you know, maybe it's known as the rock pile. We have, there's these places across the West that are kind of popular, you know, where everybody goes to glass and that generally deer are being killed from that particular rock pile. But some of these bigger bucks that we may be finding are on smaller knobs that are less popular. Just, just these smaller areas that'll hit different areas, different areas that don't normally get glass because it's thick cedars or something like that. Kind of what you're talking about in thick country. So anyway, just, uh, I don't know. The best approach would be, you know, a lot of times too, that late October, we're starting

to get seeing some rut, like Idaho, Idaho, a lot of times they'll start rutting around the 20th. I know brother-in-law Jeff was up there hunting general season. He was even seeing rutting action, uh, starting around October 20th. And so, you know, again, that might make a difference on where you're, you know, you might be checking on does and different things like that. And just kind of maybe incorporating that into what you're thinking about glass. And of course we have migrations too, even on our general here in Utah with some migrations that are occurring by, you know, middle to end of October. Some of our southern units, Pine Valley, Zion. So it, that's a little bit different because you could be just glassing a canyon all day long as deer are drifting through it. So I guess we're under the assumption that you're not talking about migrating deer, but

just got to look into a lot of maybe north flacing slopes, thicker brush, the deer that just don't move much. You just got to catch them on their feet and then they're going to bed 10 yards from there. You know, they just aren't out like they normally are earlier. So that's right. Pretty cool stuff. Yeah, it's tough. That's October timeframe stuff. The later you get in October though, the better off you are generally, generally speaking. So anyway, all right, here we go. What pack do y'all think is the best pack for being able to hunt and hike all day, but has a capacity to pack a buck out if you harvest one? I've been a big fan of the QU packs ever since they've come out and they've had a lot of different versions of those, you know, in terms of size and cubic inch and all that. I'm, I'm guilty of always usually carrying a bigger pack than you might normally say you

need, even in my scouting time of year. I just, I do. I like the way the QU packs fit me. My brother and others will get some of the smaller packs, some of the 18 or 3,200, the smaller bags. I personally, for hunting, I go with their Icon Pro 6000. That's the one that I use. It's big enough to have, you know, extra clothes and all that. It's 6,000 cubic inches, way bigger than you need for a day pack, obviously. But yeah, the key is I have been on my own a lot and shot a deer on my own a lot and it's big enough to bone it out. Sometimes with a short pack out, just a quick quarter job and get it out on your own. So that's what I'm using is the QU Icon Pro 4000 for kind of my all around pack when I'm guiding. So when I'm guiding hunters, you know, I, I usually always carry a bigger pack than my hunter pack on my hunters. You kill a sheep, me or my brother, my guys are with me.

We, we pack the bulk of the sheep out. And so the hunter isn't maybe quite as heavy because they've got their gun and everything's like that. So I carry a 6,000 when I hunt. And you know, if I go up north or I hunt somewhere else, I got the 7,800. It's giant, but that's when I go up north hunting sheep and you need the added because you've got your whole pack with you and camp and sleeping bag and everything with you. So I got the 7,800, but the 6,000 is the one that I carry up most of the time. I like it. Yeah, I agree with you. In fact, I've got all my kids a QU pack as well. And the nice thing is they're super lightweight. And so, and they're very collapsible. So you can cinch everything down. The bigness doesn't matter. It's not a flapping pack. It's cinched down tight. That's right. So if you go with a 32 or something smaller, in my opinion, then, then all of a sudden you

do have a reason to pack more out or something like that. You don't have as much room. And when you just cinch it down, it's not that much added weight and bulk on your back at all. So that's what I do. Yeah, I like it. Yep. I totally agree with you. So anyway, great, great option there. I've got one as well and use it. Janet bought my wife one last Christmas. She's using it. And part of it too is we're putting a lot of optics and tripods and different things in there as well. We've got, you know, 12s now. But, you know, 15s, spot and scope, maybe BTX. You want to have the option. Sometimes we're hiking 10 or 15 miles in on, you know, desert sheep in Nevada or something. You've got your lunch, all kinds of stuff. Layers of clothes because you're hiking in with nothing. And you get there, you've got to have your down coat, maybe down pants pulling out, just stuff. So we've got plenty.

And if you're in there and you kill a sheep, you don't want to come back. You don't want to. Sheep and deer, you don't want to have to come back. Elk, you're going to have to come back. That's right. So anybody that's interested, go to www.ku.com, K-U-I-U.com, and go check out their pack, their pack systems. Super good. I'm also using Bronson. I'm just going to throw it in there. I'm using a vinyl harness from QU, the Pro Pack. Yeah. Super impressive. The one thing I used to use heavily was the magnets with Badlands. Kind of was the first one that I remember coming out. Anyway, but it snapped. It made that little noise, especially audible when you're close range archery. And it bothered me. But the QU Pro doesn't do that. That's right. So anyway, ku.com, go check them out. Also, I have used and do use at times an XO pack. I've got the 5500, and it could do the same thing. Pack a buck out.

I like it when they've got the big, long side pockets for tripods and spotting scopes. All right. Well, here's the next question. That's just for you. I like this. You guys ever going to hunt California? No. Okay. We good? Plenty of OTC black bear tags, and the same for deer. Carter, it's hard work, but they're there. How come? How come no? It's hard work, but they're there. I don't know. I mean. Nothing against. I just. I spent a little time over there, here and there. It's a ways to go for. Yeah. I mean. OTC black bear. We have deer tags here. And we. To some extent, we don't even hunt Idaho that regularly because, again, we have a general season Utah deer tag. And to go get another general season hunt in California, we're just. Usually it's a time crunch issue, too. Well. And if you knew the right ranches and stuff, and we've had some invitations, and we appreciate

that, and it's not that we're minimizing those. But I want to make a point. Bronson, you went to Iowa. Okay? You went to Iowa. It's outside of your hometown, your home country, your home western U.S. Okay? So you go over there, and what did you tell me? This is different. And I'm realizing. Yeah. How hard it is. And how dedicated you have to be to kill something special. To kill a big white tail. And it's the same thing to kill a big black tail. Well, in this case, maybe on OTC public land. It's got to become your life, and it's got to be the way you were almost like brought up hunting. And it's like these white tail hunters, they were brought up hunting white tails the way you hunt white tails, and sitting, because that's how you kill white tails. And you sat for one day. What did you think? Daylight. Before daylight. I did kill a deer that night.

Yeah, but you were about out of phone battery, because you were texting me nonstop. I had to plug in. I had plugs. I had plug-ins. I had batteries. I did. Did you? Yeah. The mobile batteries as well? Okay. I could have got through the day. What do you mean? I didn't know. I told you to put on battery save mode. Well, you did, but then I remembered I had that in my pack, and so I pulled it out and plugged it in. So I didn't have great service. I had just enough service to get a text out, but I couldn't view the internet or anything and see what was happening in the world. But I could, you know. Then you smashed a buck and all was well. But I think this was what reminds me. Yeah, the point is it's hard to be a specialist of everything. And then this guy would say, you don't need to be a specialist. Why don't you just come enjoy the hunt? I could.

And we're so trained at having something special. I want to put my hands on something big. I don't want a two by three or a three by four or a three by two or whatever. You just want to go there and you want to run a bunch of trail cameras, and maybe that doesn't teach you anything, but you want to try that. But then you get a, you know. And I want to know it and feel like I'm accomplishing something or that I'm actually good at it. I don't know. I'm going to go over there. It takes a whole next level dedication, which is going to take. Take time. From something else. From what we are doing here. Just like me. To go to kill 180, 200 inch whitetail carter, we're going to have to give up a bunch. Nobody's going to give you one. Or you just go and get lucky sometime in your life. But to go make it happen, it's like you have to forget all the mule deer hunting you want.

And that's just not something I personally want to do. I'm going to go hunt whitetail just like I did every time I do. And what happens happens, and I have a great time doing it. And I went and hunted blacktail once in Oregon. And you hunted whitetail too in Kansas. I have. And I killed one there. That's the difference. Yeah. Chris, remember how our Oregon hunt went? It was terrible. Okay. And it was supposed to be the next level most amazing hunt of our life. And the new season dates and this and that and Applegate. But part of it is who we went with. And there was just some other factors that I think are out of my control, which I know are out of my control in California. And I think, you know, so then you're like, okay, we've had guys say, I'll trade you a big whitetail for a big mule deer. I have yet to have that really work out.

These guys are so addicted to their whitetails, if they had a 180 plus, and there are guys out there that have them, they will never give it up. Just like I don't want to give up maybe a 200-inch mule deer. Yeah. Especially if it's in a place that you can go hunt it, and it's on their farm that they could shoot it if they want. They would have to truly trade. And when it comes down to it, they're so addicted to their whitetails, they can't do it. Yeah. And so it's just specializations. And I don't have the time to go and then figure out the lease and lease it. And manage it and food plot it and do all the things you've got to do yourself. And then wait for the right deer with the right genetics at the right age and the right moisture conditions or whatever to say. It's ready to shoot. Yeah. So what are you going to do? You're going to hunt mule though. Yeah. Hopefully in the rut.

Because it's amazing. For me, all that comes down to are there better options for me closer to home? Yes, there are. That's all this California is. Like you said, I think we go to the Panhandle in Idaho and kill a great white tail. Yeah. And I think we got Utah General and then Idaho is like the next closest general for us. Yeah. So we have a couple of tags right here closer that probably in our opinion maybe mean more to us. We feel your has more maybe of an upside. That's just. People that are addicted to blacktails though, I've never seen such a cult following other than like coos deer and blacktails. People that hunt them regularly like they are 100% addicted to them. I mean, nothing else matters in life. That's right. You know? Pretty interesting. Cool stuff. If we lived in California, guaranteed we'd smash in some of them for sure. And those hogs, left and right.

There's another song title. Nothing else matters. Chris Stapleton just did a remake, Chris. You know what I'm talking about? Yes. I do. All right. How do you keep up on all this stuff? Hey, just listen. Is it in the news or what? Well, I don't watch the news. I know that. I do know that. And so I can't figure out how you know everything else in life. What do you mean? How do you find this out? You just. I listen to Sirius XM radio. What do you mean? Well, I do too, but I don't get that out of it. I'm also not very focused when the radio is on. So you guys know this. All right. Well, whatever. Take it over for a minute, Bronson. Next question. What would you suggest to someone who is pretty much starting over applying for a new species with zero points? I drew my 2020 Utah elk limited entry tag, and now I have moved on from elk to deer. I'll be a resident. Yeah. You're a resident here.

We have to pick between deer, elk, and antelope. So I switched to deer. I have one point for limited entry deer now, and Phil, I'm starting over. With most units taking 10 to 20 plus points, how would you, how would you, or what would your strategy use to go about for applying for the next species with zero to one point? That's really hard in a state like Utah. I'm in a flat out set. I'm in the same position, but it's for Rocky Mountain bighorn. I mean, I drew a desert bighorn after my whole life, it feels like. And now I'm starting over. Me too. On the deer, I guess I would just add, try to look for either weapon types or seasons. I mean, yeah, you also have personal criteria. I'm doing the same exact thing, and I'm doing odd stuff. Yeah, you have personal criteria that you want. Size of deer, usually, or things like that. But you have to think outside the box.

You've got these late muzzleloader hunts. You've got weird hams hunts. You've got stuff like that. Utah residents. You've got cooperative wildlife management units that you can put in for. You've got these muzzleloader hunts on the generals that are late November or whatever. You can do a public draw permit on a CWMU as a resident. You can apply for that. The public permit on a cooperative life management unit, which some of those offer you great hunts. Well, those require research, and a lot of guys aren't willing to do the research, so there probably is some hidden gems on that. Yeah, there's 100 and something CWMUs in the state of Utah, so there probably are some. But if you're sticking to the public land stuff where you can lead the orchestra, so to speak, on how you scout, how you approach your hunt and all that, look at different weapon types and weird little seasons.

And your random drawing odds. They're tough. And who might be able to point boost you? Look at those things. Utah is a state that gives about 1% of our deer tags to limited entry draw. We've got 85,000 or 90,000 general season tags and 1,500 limited entry deer tags in the state. So 1% or 2%, 1.5% go to limited entry. That is your problem. You can only do so much with trying to get drawn. In Utah. It's not like Colorado when you say, hey, just go to a two- or three-point unit and go every two, three years. You can't really say that in Utah. So look at weird stuff, look at the random drawing odds, and then plan on going to another state. All right. Got it. Okay, thanks, Bronson. Appreciate it. I got the next one. Thinking about hunting in Wyoming the next year or two. I have eight points for deer. I'm not sure what to do. Is Region G the way to go?

Am I better off building points and doing something else? Bronson. Oh. Come on. Love the podcast. Keep up the good work. Two-point lives matter. I about missed that. I didn't even see that. It's pretty funny. It's true. Two points turn into four points. Four points turn into eight. You know what I mean? In the whitetail world, they do. But anyway. So. Yeah. Basal points. Go ahead. Well, I just think. Yeah. Well, this is what I think. We've talked a lot about this, Bronson. There's a lot of young deer out in the world. We even saw. You sent me a graph talking about the winter kills in Wyoming. And we looked at the 2017. It was excessive winter kill. Even more so than. 80-something percent. 1993 is two and three winter. 80 percent. 86. Eighty-something percent of the fawns died. And we hunted Wyoming this year. Up there in the high country, region H, DG. It's all the same basic type stuff.

And the common theme was lots of young deer. Lots and lots and lots and lots of young deer. And that's what we saw. Lots of young bucks. I saw a ton of young bucks. One to three or four-year-old bucks. One to three probably. 50. 60. But the answer to the question is there's nothing better. That if you got eight points now, you might look at this year. But this next year or the year after, if we have mild winters, cash them in. There's nothing better. Don't cash these eight until 2023. That's my gut feel. But the answer to this question for sure is, yeah, there's nothing better worth waiting for another 10 years to draw. No. No. But while you're waiting for 2023 to come around, you could do unit 128 that smashed quite a few nice bucks. Yeah. Yeah, do that. There were some great bucks there. But it's not, you're never going to get the max point pool there.

Or if you look at the 87 or 90 or the 101 or 102, they're not worth you waiting for to the maximum point. And you got one name in the hat. Yeah. You're probably not going to draw. And there's also stuff rumbling out there too about percentages of non-resident tags and preference point changes down the road that who knows. By the way, that is down the road, Bronson. There's stuff going to the legislature this year that could change all that. So not happening this year. No, not happening in 2022. So, but they just, if you read our deer section in Wyoming every year, we will say it over and over and over. They just collectively don't manage for elite limited entry units. If you don't have the max points or close to it, hunt the general units as often as you want and can get drawn. I like it. You could even draw some of those second choice. All right. Anyway. All right.

Well, you want to do one more? One more. Bronson, the grinder. It's a quick. It's just. I like it though. You've, you, you cause us to work and think. Here we go. Three questions. Hickorya, Nevada, 231 or Eastern Colorado? Honestly. This is what I, this is what I think. Bronson, I want you to chime in. Um, Hickorya. I feel like the Hickorya is the average buck killed. There's 195 inch gross deer, which is just a phenomenal deer. But when I go there and I'm guided and I, and I spend good, good money or, or whatever, if I were lucky to be drawn. Hypothetically, if you're. I would like to come home with something special. 220. 10 or 20 incher. And I just don't feel like it's, uh, realistic. And, and that's probably not realistic anywhere. So it doesn't even, it's kind of a moot point. It's probably not happening in most years in 231 or Eastern Colorado too.

But you're also, you're not in the control there as much as you are in a five, in a five day hunt or whatever. Now I'm in 231. I get to hunt, you know, I get to kind of hunt more longer. I can make a habit in my backyard. I can scout it. All of these things. So I guess I would choose that, but I, but you are going to, the chance of killing 190 incher is way better on the Hickorya. Way better. It's a, it's a slam dunk for say 190 to 200. Slam dunk. In the rut, December one to 10 Eastern Colorado. You can't say that that's a slam dunk and 231. You can't say that's a slam dunk either, but, but it does feel the upside is maybe a little bit better on those two, but again, it goes back Eastern Colorado and Hickorya are both. You're going to go on a guided hunt, less in your control. You show up and hunt. And I guess I usually favor hunts where I, I can do more.

Not, not that I feel like I'm better than anybody that could help me on my hunt, but just, I just, I feel like I, the effort I put forth can, can bring forth fruit. At times. Well, at times I feel like it's hard to buy passion and I want to go. It's hard to book a hunt and have that guy as passionate as you are about your own hunt. That's another way to put it. Yeah. It's just hard to buy the passion. And so anyway, sometimes you do go on a hunt and you book a hunt with a guy that's as passionate as you are and, and it's impressive. But that Eastern Colorado is in an upswing, honestly, compared to the rest of the state. They're doing really well now that, you know, you hear rumors of going to issue more tags and try to curb some CWD and do different things. And that all, there is cycling that happens, but right now they're in an uptick. No question. There's a big, big deer out there.

So if you can figure it out, definitely worth the trying. Does that answer it? Yep. I thought that was supposed to be a simple answer and it turned out not to be. All right. Well, are we moving on? Bronson, are you letting us? Yep. We better make a phone call here. All right. Well, Chris, do you want to kind of tee it up for us here on what we're doing? Yeah. We work with St. James Sporting Properties and we're going to talk to Blaine St. James right now. He's an avid hunter and he is the expert when it comes to buying and selling ranch and hunting recreational properties. So we're going to give him a call. Right on. Yeah. He's actually a good friend of ours. He actually does a lot of hunting. So we're going to learn some. We're going to, Bronson, we're pretty good at pulling out some tidbits, tips and tricks from people and we're going to do that to Blaine.

Blaine's killed a bunch of the North America 29. I think he's within like three to five of finishing that off. So we'll find out that today too. Okay. Sounds good. Let's give him a holler.

This is Blaine. Hey, you got any ranches that we can buy for about half of what they're worth? Oh man, get in line, brother. Get in line. Hey, our money's good. Money's green, but we don't maybe have enough of it in this COVID environment. Man, I broke her dreams. You just let me know what you want. I'll find it. No kidding. Well, how you been? This is Adam and Jason, Chris here. And how you been first off? I've been doing well, fellas. And yourself? Same. Yep, good. Getting back into the swing of the office life this time of year, as you well know. We've known you for a lot of years. You know the application game and what's about to get kicked off. And so that's where you find us now. Hunting season's over, but... Bronson's making me come in at like three in the morning. I'm tired of it. He's a slave driver. I'm tired of it. Well, anyway, but... I'm not making you do anything, Carter.

Well, I can't have you coming in by yourself. All right. Well, anyway, so what is going on out there in your world, Blaine? I know you've... I mean, we can jump into hunting, but I've kind of into... I got a buddy that bought a ranch in Colorado, and it's kind of piqued our interest a little bit. What is... It just seems like a crazy environment out there, but people are kind of buying land to hedge against inflation. Because, you know, obviously, land's going up in value as maybe even the same rate as cash. I don't know. Maybe tell us a little bit about that. Yeah. You know, so we sell all over the place, you know, from New Mexico up through Montana. So every market's a little bit different, but kind of speaking directly to Colorado, you know, it's... We kind of got to break it down by region a little bit.

We're seeing a big drive and demand are ranches near resorts because they're more lifestyle properties. They're not just about hunting. You know, as an example, Steamboat was pretty undervalued for the most part for quite a while. And then we identified that as kind of a high target area for value. Not necessarily trophy elf, but more opportunity. And, you know, it's a place that we went into and put together a huge deal, like 14,000 acres last year. Beginning of the... Actually, this year. And it's... Shoot, that ranch right there alone for what my guys paid for it. They've probably made an equity at least 40%. Wow. Jeez. And it was a substantial ranch, and that's a property that easily we could sell 40% higher. So it's just evaluating the area and the market and where the opportunities are because it changes.

You know, southeast Colorado, we sell a ton of ranches down in the Trinidad area. You know, great hunting. But we got two different demographics down there. So not a lifestyle area per se, right? But you got guys from Texas and Oklahoma that can drive up and be hunting elk in eight hours. And then with the front range of Colorado exploding, half the ranches we sell down there now are guys from over here. You know, Denver, Fort Collins, Colorado Springs, and whatnot. So you got these two demographics kind of converging there. All right. So long term, I don't see where that really fluctuates a whole lot.

Now, I could go on and on. I mean, southwest Colorado is another example. You know, that's primarily guys from Utah, Arizona. There's probably some good value down there right now. Now, because it's further, you know, for me to go down to southwest Colorado, seven and a half hours. I can be in Billings, Montana, and six, right? Wow. So just as an example, there's not as much population there, right? So that's probably the better value play right now is that southwest and southeast still. So if you were us, you're saying, look at that country. Like, I like southeast. I've hunted there. There's some giant freaking deer. Got some sheep. But he's saying you need to go southwest, like somewhere like Rico, Rico, Colorado. Oh. Yeah. Where's Rico? In southeast Trinidad. Yeah. Where's Rico? Do you know where Rico is, Blaine? Where's Rico? I do. It's down there. It's between Dolores and Dolores.

It's back for that. They probably have the old, like, rotary dial of gas pumps. You know what I mean? It's just between Telluride and Dolores. I've hunted elk there before. But it's, yeah. I mean, Telluride is, you know, you don't want to live there. But part of buying a ranch, isn't it, Blaine? Like, you want to keep the value and you don't want to have to die before it increases in value. You know? So you want to go somewhere that's kind of a destination. Isn't there a little of both? You got to, there's a fine balance. Just depends on your goal of what you're buying it for. Yeah. Big mule there. Exactly. Adam just nailed it, right? So one of the first things I do is when somebody calls, typically most of my guys end up buying properties they didn't think they were going to buy. They don't, most guys don't know what they really want.

So I kind of go through a whole, you know, list of questions and try to figure out, identify a lifestyle. And then I say, forget about the property you're calling me about. You know, what's important to you? You know, is this going to be specifically for hunting? Is it just for you? You know, is it something you want to entertain? Some guys want it to cash flow, maybe. You know, some other guys don't care. With cattle or farmland or, you know, tillable ground or cattle. Maybe other guys don't care, you know. And that's a hard deal, though. I'll tell you what. You know, most of our clientele are buying. They're not necessarily looking for cash flow. That's a hard deal. Yeah. And usually when you're maximizing it solely for cash flow, it impacts the hunting adversely. And, you know, most of the guys that we deal with are buying it for hunting, you know, recreational. Recreational, yeah.

Yeah. So that's a side. But, like, say, Jason, like, you know, you want something that's going to appreciate, right? But, you know, some of these areas, just as an example, northeast New Mexico. Now, we can still go down there and find really good hunting ground for, call it 800 to 1200 bucks an acre. Well, that's a heck a lot easier to double in price per acre than it is something around Carbondale that's 10,000 an acre. Yeah. You know what I mean? Makes total sense. And there's big bulls down there. There's big elk and kind of some hidden gems. But it's a low population zone like what you're talking about. It's not on the map yet. Blaine is a destination. It's not boulder, golden. It's not, I don't know, all these next to the suburbs of bigger places. But there's good animals. Yeah.

And then, you know, in some of these areas that, you know, guys aren't really worried about making money on it necessarily. They don't want to get hurt. I had a conversation with a gentleman actually from Utah, you know, we're talking about specific property. And this is an interesting takeaway, 20 something years of real estate. I never thought about it this way. So, this was a pretty good little nugget. He goes, you know, Blaine, as long as I can get my money back out or I lose, you know, no more than 50,000 bucks, something like that. Because if I've owned it for 10 years, he goes, if I had $5,000 worth of fun every year and I only lost 50 grand, that's a win for me. I said, huh, interesting perspective. Yeah, it's true. I never thought about it that way. I mean, it's somewhat of a safe investment. I mean, you didn't lose your shorts, so to speak. We've done worse. We've done worse.

Yeah, that's right. And he enjoyed it. Well, and you also help, you know, we're talking about buying property. But, I mean, you guys go both ways. Obviously, there's some people that inherit property, inherit farm, ranch property. And you need, you've got eight layers of kids and grandkids and all that now. And it's time to unload it. And you guys probably feel a lot of the calls like that when it's time to sell the family farm, ranch, whatever. And how to go about doing it. When's the right time to do it? What do you say to people like that? Kind of keep the family together. Yeah. Liquidate. It's easier to split cash than split property sometimes. Yeah. You got it. And, you know, what we're seeing right now, especially the aging demographic, right? So, the baby boomer generation has a huge accumulation of wealth and generational wealth.

And so, a lot of these guys now, you know, they're in the fourth quarter of their lives. And, you know, they're going to, you know, everybody's going to pass away at some point. And it's, but most of these ranches don't make it past three generations is what we see. And so, that's kind of where you're in right now when you're looking at that age, that demographic, the baby boomers. You're kind of in the third generation right now. And, you know, you'll have, we had a scenario right now, a deal that's going to come on. You know, we won't, I can't really talk about it a whole lot, but I can give you generalization and speak to it that way. But it's 13,000 acres. It's been in their family for, it's pushing on the fourth generation right now. There's one sibling that's out there and the other three siblings leave, right?

And, and all of a sudden it's becoming a rift, but the gentleman's still alive. You know, he's in his late nineties and sharp as a tack, but he's got everything structured, you know, ahead of time. But what he wants as soon as he passes, because they don't want to sell until after he passes away. And that talk about an awkward situation. You're sitting here at this meeting and they're, they're talking about his death and he's telling me, you know, it's just, it's a weird position. But, but you know, it's, it's, he's thinking. So what have they got? One, one sibling wants to continue that lifestyle and to continue and not to sell. And the other three don't live there and would just as soon sell. Is that kind of. Yep. That's exactly it. But you know what, in this scenario, they've all, the, the patriarch of the family, he wants to sell it. Oh, he does. He does.

A lot of times these guys don't want to sell. He does. He sees, I think the other siblings and doesn't want to create a rift and say, you know what, everybody's going to get their cash. And, you know, if the other sibling wants to take his money and, and go buy something else, he's, they'll have enough to go do it, but kind of start his own, his own deal. And, you know, it's probably like any business too. Yeah. Sometimes you have a kid who's capable of taking it over and sometimes you don't. Yeah. Right. So it's probably one of those scenarios. Somebody doesn't want to, but they still are entitled to something from it. Whatever. Right. Yeah. And so, so we deal with two different kinds of clientele, you know, really, you know, our buyers are a lot of times much different than our sellers. Cause like you said, you know, you got guys who are land rich and cash poor sometimes.

And, you know, you got these buyers who are pretty affluent and they're looking to kind of land bank some, some properties. So it's, it's just all across the board. Okay. So I've got a question for you, Blaine. Shoot. And this is a question, Adam, and I get pretty regular and I just thought of it. I just wanted to throw it out there, but I have a lot of guys that say, where's, where's the best place to live? I can move anywhere. My works can go with me online or whatever. And, and at times I, and I've thought a lot about it and Adam has too. And at times we look at the opportunities to hunt upland game, bird, you know, ducks, geese, whatever, as well as big game. And then the ability to get tags and over the counter tags versus are the over the counter going away, which they are in most cases. And, uh, the ability to, to have quality hunting opportunities.

And I've often thought Idaho, Wyoming, there's a lot of hidden stuff in Wyoming, a lot of crazy, you know, just awesome stuff out in that desert. And then New Mexico, but then, you know, and of course, Colorado, we hunt it every year. Yeah. Jump in. Yeah. That's right. I mean, those are the ones that we probably bring up the most, you know, states like Utah and Arizona don't as much because they're more under a limited structure, limited entry where it's, if you're moving there for just like for hunting, being a big component of why you're going to retire and buy 160 acres or 200 or just something, you know, we're bigger. Yeah. That's not probably one of those for that purpose, but those other states might, but you probably get questions like that, Blaine. And with the markets that you kind of see right now, and I know you guys service, you know, eight or 10 Western states.

Maybe more than that. And they're licensed in those states. Where do you, where do you direct people to when they talk to you about stuff like that?

All right. Well, a lot of it. Okay. That's a good question. You kind of threw me off on this one. I got an answer about trying to figure out how to R&J. Yeah. You don't have to be perfectly proper. And it might matter if the guy's an elk hunter, like if the guy, like, cause I asked the guy, well, what matters more to you? Oh, I'm a way more of an elk hunter than I'm a mule deer hunter. Okay. Well, then, then maybe a Wyoming general or a Colorado, the current general situation there might elevate more than maybe an Idaho. Well, because the Idaho guys are not going to let game and fish do away with the general. I don't see that happening. It may someday, but they are angry. And same with the Wyoming residents for deer and elk. It doesn't feel like that's going away for residents.

So, it kind of may be, you do have to have a few sideboards on it, but, you know, these are probably all states that you deal in. You know, and some of them, I guess, you know, yeah. Okay. How much money do you got to actually buy a piece of property? Because if you've only got X amount and you think that's going to buy a 200 acres, you're sadly mistaken in Colorado versus, okay, rural Wyoming, you got a prayer to buy that, you know? I'll give you a couple caveats and I'll tell you my real opinion. All right. So if you got guys from Texas, Oklahoma, things like that, and they want to be close to their family, you know, New Mexico makes a lot of sense. Colorado makes a lot of sense. So they can still have access to the family. That's something that really does pop up pretty frequently with us. You know, if it's, you know, Colorado for the most part has,

I think more amenities, meaning, you know, you've got multiple ski resorts, good resort, good restaurants, easy to get into multiple places, you know, the fishing, the biking, all that. But with all that comes population. Yeah. Right. You know, because even as, you know, we knew each other, I lived in Crested Butte and it was a phenomenal place to hunt. It's still good, but it's not like it used to be. You know, we hunted there this year. With Vail Resort Spines in Crested Butte, it's kind of changed that dynamic a little bit. So I think the fishing, you touched on fishing. You've sent us so many fishing photos and I'm jealous of these freaking giant fish that you're pulling out of some of these private properties. And I think that plays heavily. Colorado. Especially retired people. I mean, I know there's a... Go ahead and say it. When you're retired, people think you just fish every day.

You're like golfing fish, right? I'm saying they do. But it is a pretty big thing for a lot of people. Right. I mean, it is. So fishing is more important than hunting. Sometimes when you're 71, the mountains are too steep for you anymore. And you just fish. You can fish the creek every day. There's some amazing fishing in Idaho. But Colorado has some unbelievable fishing. So anyway, go ahead. Well, but that same thing though, right? So, okay, you got family that's spread out. Where do the grandkids want to come? That's what I mean. It just depends on where you're on your life cycle. Because we just sold a phenomenal place in Evil. Guy never killed a big buck. I got him a landowner tagging you at 44-0. He killed a 201. Beautiful buck, right? Right. But he's pumped. He's got a place to go ski for his family. He's got a place to go fish. He's got a place to go hunt. He can play golf.

He can fly in there easily. You know what I mean? And so, again, that kind of plays into it. Wyoming, you're pretty remote. But there's no state income tax. A lot of people love the politics out there. So it's not a one shot. But I'm going to get to my point here in a second. But I'm going to give you the pros and cons. I like the pros and cons. I like this. Yeah, that's a lot to weigh out. Didn't even think about the taxes. Nevada comes to mind. But anyway, keep going. No, for sure. Yeah, so no state income taxes. You know, population's pretty low. But there's not a lot of amenities in Wyoming. You've got Jackson Hole and Afton and that area down there. But that's really expensive there. Yeah, super expensive. Exactly. So it doesn't always appeal. On paper, it does sometimes. But when people push them to shove, the wind becomes an issue.

But where I do think, I will give you this little nugget, where I do think Wyoming is going to do really well is southeast Wyoming because as the population of the front range of Colorado explodes, like where I live in Fort Collins area, Windsor, they're talking between Loveland, Greeley, and Fort Collins, the population going up another 600,000 people in another 10, 12 years. That's where we need to go, brother. Because it's affordable right now. Well, and so you're talking the same reason you were just talking about southern and south central, southeastern Colorado getting some of that overflow. You're just talking about it now going north, and it's crossing into Wyoming. Exactly. Because Colorado Springs, demographically, we can Google this one, is going to surpass Denver, right? So all of a sudden, you're going to have people pushing further south.

From Denver north, you're going to have them go further north. And then as you go west to Rock Mountain National Park, there's only so much ground, right? And that's pretty much done. So Wyoming, to me, you're already seeing some of the bigger names are buying ranches up there, you know, from the bigger companies. Only so much ground. I like that comment, only so much ground. Yeah. We can keep printing money. Yeah. And we do. Yeah. We've been doing that, right? Yeah. Right. There's only so much ground. That's right. And yeah, so much private ground. Because yeah, like I said, you push north of Rocky Mountain. You hit public land right to the state line, a lot of that, heavily, right? That's what you're talking about. Yeah. But if it were me and I was starting over and, you know, go west instead of a young man scenario, right?

And I'm not too worried about family dynamics or any of that kind of stuff. Or if I am, the one area I'm pretty bullish on, and to me, I think it's what Colorado was 35 years ago, is Montana. It's a good value. There's some great hunting, particularly, you know, along the Yellowstone, Bighorn, right in that area, giant elk, upland game bird hunting, waterfowl hunting. There's a hidden gem for big mule deer, you know, and you got whitetail. Like, it's such a game-rich environment. Hidden gem for mule deer? We need to have an off-air discussion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I still can't, I'm still, you got me stuck in 44 when you found this guy tagged. A, I don't know how you did it. And B, why did you call him versus me? Hey, he bought a ranch. What do you mean? He's a client. He had a checkbook with a couple more zeros. Okay, maybe four or five more zeros, but still.

I'll give you a picture after that. Tremendous. And I think, and I also wanted to dive into that a little bit, is, hey, Blaine, you know, you sell so many properties. You're working with so many cool dudes out there. You have unlimited hunting opportunities on private land. You have to. If you tell me you don't, I'm going to call you a liar.

Yeah, but I don't usually use them. Yeah. You still have your favorite places, too, yeah, that you like to know. For me, like a client, right? A client's buying it not to share his big bucks with you, probably. Well, I would feel like a jerk like this. You know, for instance, this guy, he's, he's, he's, and that's a cool thing. Most of my clients, we're not, we do become friends. That's your sphere of influence, right? I deal with these guys daily. It's, you know, we're very much relational versus transactional. Yeah. So, um, so even after the sale, you were constantly keeping in contact with people. Well, it's not the last ranch. It's not the last ranch they're going to buy or sell either. You know what I mean? No, but. I mean, they're going to continue to have needs, you know, from you. People like you that are connected. Yeah, but we all share that common denominator. We love hunting.

And I, you know, I do get to see a lot of stuff. So guys who don't necessarily have the time to sit here and research a bunch of things, they call you and they ask and they trust you and you help them find what they're looking for. But it's, yeah, the access to private, I just, to us, like I said, I'd feel like a jerk. And if we're trying to sell the property, you know, there's more value for us and those animals being alive. Like, would you rather see what's alive on this property that you can buy or what I just shot on it? Right, right. Both. Both. Yeah, well, I need to find you a property. You need to let me hunt. There you go. Hey, we might figure something out in that southeast Wyoming country. Find Carter a good antelope property in eastern Colorado. Speaking of antelope, didn't you have a kid kill first antelope? You sent me a photo of it. I did.

Both my boys got their first bucks this year. No kidding. How'd that go down? Fun time. You know, you know the struggles of life. Kids are in school playing sports, all that kind of stuff. But I was able to find a couple landowner tags here just outside of Fort Collins. And we hunted public and private. And, you know, I did the old rock, paper, scissors. He was going to shoot first. And my youngest boy, we got him set up. And this is pretty unique. You know, he shot this buck, beautiful buck, heavy, gnarly kind of going downhill. But he wasn't as big as the one my son shot. Well, we boiled the skulls out to the gyros ourself. He started looking at it. He shot the bigger, older buck. But he was pretty excited. But we, you know, I got him out. And, you know, instead of just driving around, jumping out of the truck, I made him hunt.

We hiked around and, you know, stocked up on animals for both of them. And my youngest boy, we got him like 100 yards. We got two close. But we got it knocked out. And then my oldest son, Pearson, he made a great shot on my 7mm mag I grew up hunting with. I gave it to him as a Brownie Naebolt. I got it when I was a teenager. And I gave it to him when he was 13. And that was pretty cool. It was the first time he'd used that gun to shoot anything. And so he got to shoot his big buck with my old 7 mag, which is pretty cool. How cool is that? That's awesome. What about you this year? I don't want to totally, but we're talking hunting now. So let's keep him rolling. What about, what did you get out and chase yourself this year? One thing that I did mention right before we called you is that you were, have you killed all the 29 yet? Or you're a couple shy? Or where does that sit?

I'm one shy intentionally. I waited. So this past year I went out and shot my Roosevelt. Where did you do that? Northern California. That's right. North of Eureka. We got an awesome place up there. And I'm back. I'd like to go back again. The guy's got tremendous rosies. You know, 340 plus bulls up there. We got towards the end of the hunt. And, you know, I shot a poking young bull. But he's got outstanding bulls there. I mean, he really does. I'd like to get back up there and do that again. Cool, huh? But that was number 28 and number 19 with a bow out of the 28. So that was... Jeez. How cool is that? How cool is that? So what's number 29? A cougar? A black bear? No, no, no, no. I saved it. I saved sick of black-tailed deer so I could take my kids with me. Oh, cool. I've been invited a million times to go do it. Oh, as you said, that's not a very tough one, you know, to go kill.

No, you can pretty much do that at will when you're ready. So do you got that planned this year maybe? Yep, we're going to go out this next hunt season. And I'm going to take my boys with me and I'll be part of it. Did you set up like a drop, like staying on a yacht? Or what do you... How did you do it? Or have you done it yet? So here's an interesting deal. So I do get access to hunting, okay?

Well, you're connected. But part of it is... You just made me a liar. Okay, so part of it is you're connected. The other part is you've done it for years and years. Just like Adam and I. You've been a lot of places before... I mean, before St. James Porting Properties, even. I mean, you were doing this. This is a lifelong pursuit. And, you know, what's it been? 10 or 12 years or 15? I don't know how many years since you opened up your own agency. But, yeah, you're connected. So we're saving you on this one. We know you're connected. It's not just real estate. Well, no. So I sold this gentleman a ranch. I've sold him two ranches, actually. Super nice guy. I became good friends. In fact, I got him hooked up going alligator hunting next week in Florida. But he called me up and said, hey, I got a cabin on Kodiak. Why don't you come up? We're in your boys next year. Oh, geez. That's...

And so... That's a layup. He's got running water on Kodiak, man. That's a layup. You don't even have to sleep with the bears. Your boys aren't even going to get the real experience. How cool is that? Yep. Jeez. We're probably going to go do that with him. Throw him in a two-man tent for at least one night up there and see if they make it all night out there. I'll stick them out there. We got a bear podcast we just published. You probably ought to listen to it. Yep. There you go. Well, that's awesome. Are you going to help him on the alligator hunt? You know, I was trying to get down there. I got my best friend from high school and college, Matt. Yeah. Aren't you from down there? Like, or either grew up or you lived there originally, right? Yeah. No, I grew up in Orlando and I graduated, went to Alabama, graduated from Bama and moved to Colorado.

But we had a ton of family history in Colorado. Yeah. That's what kind of... The more I read about DeSantis on the news and stuff, the more I want to go there. Yeah. He's a stud. He's a stud. Man. He should run for president. But anyway. Well, that's a good connection. And that'll be awesome. I don't think I've talked to anybody. I'm sure there has been somebody that had their young sons there with her on the last one. It's usually not something as common as that. Pretty cool. Although I did know somebody that finished their 29 on an antelope and I just had to chuckle. I'm like, wow, that was your last one. Some people value an antelope, Bronson. I mean, really value them. Anyway. But that's awesome, Blaine. So that'll be fun to look forward to. Pretty awesome. Cool stuff. Well, cool. And then, Blaine, I know you guys are known for supporting conservation groups.

Maybe you want to throw a little shout out there and then which trade shows you're going to be attending. Yeah. So we support quite a few conservation groups, you know, from Mule Deer Foundation, NWTF, Wild Chief, Pope and Young, Grand Senn Club Ovis. But, you know, the one that I'm pretty excited about and interesting story is Wounded Warrior Outdoors. Not to be confused with Wounded Warrior Project. But Wounded Warrior Outdoors, it's where they, it's a small deal. Ron Reboot started it and they're out of Florida. Then he goes around. He's got sheep show typically. But they find these vets and they take them out on these kind of life-changing hunting and fishing trips. And what's really pretty unique about it is Ron started with his own money. And 98 cents on every dollar that's donated goes back to the vets on these trips and things like that. So it's not, it's completely non-profit.

You know, there's minimal expenses, you know, going out. So you're not paying a bunch of other guys. You're going to run an organization. It's all volunteer. And it's awesome. But I tell you what, I got, it's an invite only. They keep it very small for their big fundraiser. And somebody told me before I went down, they goes, you know, you're going to meet these guys and you're going to, you're going to notice their wounds. You can't help it. Right. And he goes, but by the end of the trip, you're not going to notice them. And man, they were right. It's a, it's an incredible organization. And you get to meet some of these guys that are unbelievably humble, that are just studs. I mean, you, they don't tell you their story. You hear about them. I mean, what a testament how to live your life and kind of be humble and keep your head down. How cool is that? Wounded Warrior Outdoors. Yep.

That's awesome. And then, you know, as far as trade shows, we're going to be down at Dallas first of the year. Sheep show out in Reno. In fact, it looks like I was, I was looking at the map. We got a booth next to y'all in Salt Lake. Yeah. I think you have been there before. So yeah, we like to be able to catch up and visit. Been there before. Yeah. There was a snafu. We lost our spot and we fought back into position. So we're there again. Well, good. We got all that sorted out. And then. Money fixes that, Blaine. Yeah. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. That's right. That's right. We like our spot too. We'll never move. And I mean, we would fight to keep our spot. It's the premier spot. Everybody funnels right through there. Yeah. It's a great spot. Like a whitetail funnel, huh? That's what we always say. Yeah. No, for sure. And then the ISE show in Denver. Okay. Where we'll be at. Gotcha.

Well, so. Yeah. So, and Blaine, just to kind of wrap it up. I mean, we're talking to you as the owner, but you've got a bunch of different agents that you have working for you across the Western states. And at some of these shows that you just rattle off, if any of you are within proximity and go there, you'll meet possibly you yourself or some of your agents. But yeah, you're there to talk about selling or buying recreational, farm ranch, you know, hunting, lifestyle properties, you know, and all these states and, you know, great place to get ahold of there. Or I guess you give a shout out to your website or whether you do email or phone, what do you do? What do you prefer? What do you want us to rattle out here? Whatever is convenient. We're, you know, we try to make things easy for anybody. So if they want to reach out to us on the website or, you know, phone number, it's all there.

Stop by, see us, email. We're easy to get ahold of and we're responsive. SJsportingproperties.com. Is that right? Yes, sir. Right on. Okay, buddy. Well, we appreciate you spending some time. I learned a lot, Bronson. Yeah. Taxes, properties, big deer. Blaine knows way more than he's ever told us. I know that. Well, he's from Colorado. He's hunted Gunnison during the heyday. Yeah. He's killed a lot of big bucks there. But Gunnison seems to be doing well, Blaine, in parts of it anyway. Half of it, it feels like. Yeah. It's coming back. You know, we hunted 54 this year. My older boy had one. I mean, he screwed up and shot the wrong buck. But my friend ended up shooting a 180 buck second season that he was supposed to shoot. I'll send you that picture, too, if I haven't already. No, you haven't. No, you haven't. Yeah. No. That's a lesson that he'll learn. Yeah. No, it does seem good.

People had some good hunts. And then, of course, there's always. It was a warm drive. Tough here in Colorado. Yeah. For sure. Anyway. For sure. Well, we look forward to seeing you at some of the shows. Appreciate your time. And, yeah, being there for any of our listeners or members that want to talk with you about buying and selling. But, yeah, we'll see you at the show. If you find any property that takes one or two or three less zeros, let Bronson and I know. You're my first saw, guys. I got you. All right, Blaine. Talk to you later. We'll see you. All right. Bye. Well, all right. That probably wraps it up for today, huh? Anything else we need to? No. We've got a few more Q&As, but I think we're long enough. We've got a whole other podcast. Maybe we'll wait until this next magazine. The January magazine's almost at the printer. We're about ready to finish this thing up.

And we better get it done. And then we'll finish these Q&As. But we appreciate everybody sending in your Q&As for us. And hopefully we'll be able to give you our perspective on it and things like that. Yeah. Anyway. All right. Sounds good.