EP 227: Utah Trail Camera Ban Reaction

July 31st, you got cameras pulled down in Utah. For all intents and purposes, to find and hunt big game. They did pass to eliminate all thermal imaging. Anything to do with western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Chris! Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, coming at you from southern Utah. And, uh, Bronson, I got a red Solo cup today, what do you got? I got a 12-ouncer. Of what? Mountain Dew settle. Mountain Dew zero. That's right. Well, we'll see how that treats you over the next hour. Hopefully this isn't an hour. I only got an hour left in my day here, so. So here we are in the podcast room. Chris, yeah, got us in here. Every time we hear the boots coming down the hallway. Huh? We knew, he ran to my corner and he says, I just said, what time? Exactly. Hey, get it over with. There's news of the west to be had. There is. News of the west. Yeah. News of the west. And Christmas is over. And Chris had a couple podcasts he leaked through the last 10 days of the year. So hopefully you enjoyed all those over the holidays.

But it's time to do something else and it's January now. That's right. The Omicron variant is running rampant. Huh? People are getting lined up getting checked. Hey, did you see the news over in Virginia? I don't know if this is ever going to go away. I don't know. Do we have any members in Virginia? They're in a 24-hour roadblock traffic jam. Yeah. How much gas did you have when you started to work that day? I don't know, but I tell my kids, like, when you. Is it from a blizzard? I'm not. I don't remember. I don't watch the news. You run off the top half of the tank. You run off the top half. Look to me like an ice slash snow storm blizzard. You should look it up, Chris. It's legit. Well, and then you got 1,000 homes and businesses and structures being burnt in Denver in the end of December. Come on. I mean, what's so funny is we're sitting in.

I mean, not Denver, but the outskirts of Colorado. And I'm like, Colorado, wildfires. I know it was a fluke, weird rain. Right where we're at, I mean. We're like 200% of normal of snowpack. I don't know if I believe that, but that's what all the maps say. I like the map. But then you're seeing, I mean, Denver and northern Colorado is terrible. And I don't know how you can have the end of December forest fires that burned 1,000 structures. They burned a lot, though. Terrible. Yeah, hopefully nobody that's from there. Anyway, I don't know. It's crazy weather. Anyway, so yeah, here we are. Crazy times. But January 2022, how about that? Huh? 2022. You still writing 2021 on your checks? Do you use checks? Well, I typed it in the computer a couple times yesterday, but today I've already done it right. Oh, right on. I'm kind of getting that way, too. I'm getting used to it. Ten years.

Where were you ten years ago right now? Was that a wolf hunt? Hey, we were. We were wolf hunting. We were wolf hunting in Idaho. Chris, you were there. That was ten years ago. 2012, boss. March. First of March, man. Wow. That's when we spread our wings. We'll just leave it at that. We spread our wings and went elsewhere. Oh, yeah. Ten years. Wow. Killed a wolf that year. We both did. I killed on that trip. You killed one the week. Before or after? Five days before I got there. Yeah, that was right when they were more naive than they are now. It was. Driving up the road and I was getting out and I'm just mouth calling. Howling? Yeah. You know what I mean? Something like that. Probably better back then. It was a female, wasn't it? That second one. Yeah, that second one was. She was starting to pair up. Wanting to pair up. I don't know.

But anyway, I'm like, and all of a sudden they held back and I'm like, what? This works. You're shizzing me. This works. Yeah. And dude looked over there and freaking ranged it with like 350 yards. It was a smash and grab. Yeah. Next weekend I got lucky. Chris was with me and Aaron when we got into ours. Videoed yours. That day he freaking videoed. It was like, it's like priceless, Chris. I think at the time, remember I was unemployed at the time when I happened. So I, but that video footage is worth. Fun employed. Fun employed. Well, but that video was priceless. I, I deserve to pay you way more than I could have, but I didn't have a job. Wasn't it a hard shot at like 700? Like 525, 540. Oh, was it 5? I had it in my mind at 7. My thing took off like it wasn't even hit. But luckily there was snow. You could see blood down there.

I knew it, but anyway, my first wolf was seven and a quarter. That's like one of the longest shots I've had on a big game. That animal with the time was my longest. And that was 10 years ago. 540 or something like that. How long have you shot since? What's your next longest? I think only six. That was this year. What was that one? Deer. Idaho. Oh yeah. By myself. Just a 204 inch or just lay down and shoot. Yeah. Made it look easy. Bubble clan. Well, Bronson. Well, I don't know why. Why did we take a trip down memory lane there? Well, it's just we hit 2022. Because it was 2022. And it was 2012. A decade. And I was asking you for a job somewhere. That's how fast. That's how fast. You weren't either. And you were asking me for a job. And I'm like, I don't got any work for you? That's right. That's how fast a decade flies. Yeah. Flying by. I had a guy tell me something like this.

That whole analogy about the older you get, it's like a roll of toilet paper. The smaller the roll gets, the quicker it goes when you're spinning. Because you know when it's big, it's like this big around. And when it gets little, it goes faster. The older he gets, it's like a roll of toilet paper. I thought you were going to say, I'm as good once as I ever was. Well, that's true. But I can do something once. That's what I tell my boy when we play one-on-one in the backyard. Bring it. I can do something once. Don't ask me to repeat it. Well, every time you guys do one-on-one, you get a broken toe, broken pinky. He elbowed me in the forehead last year as he's driving to the hoop. Within a second. No, within a second, when I pulled my hand up there, I had like a hematoma or something sticking out about an inch on my forehead. I thought I'm going to have like an aneurysm.

Any doctors out there, tell us what Adam had. It's called a goosebump. Well, it went away. It was a goosebump, but it was immediate. It was like within a second. It was like out an inch. Like I thought I had brain fluid coming out. But anyway. Crazy stuff. I tapped out and I said, hey, I told you I can do something once. That's right. That's right. But hey, 2022.

COVID environment. Wyoming is open. Wyoming is open. You can play for all species if you want. Well. It's open. Yeah, but I don't want to do deer and antelope right now. Why? Well, because you could kill a bunch of them between now and the end of May. Yeah. With the snow. Not that we're in a bad frame of mind. I don't think we will. I do feel like, I don't know why we're even on the subject of Wyoming deer, but I guess since we are, 2023, I'm freaking excited about. 2024, really excited about. We have no winter kill. Well, I will have the points because I didn't draw this year. So I will have plenty of points. Are you not going to draw this upcoming year either? What's your plan? I don't know. Go on record. I might burn the antelope points. I'm up to about nine or ten. Really? Something to do. Yeah, I remember. You killed a freaking good antelope.

You call me, you like to tease me about being the antelope whisperer. Oh my God. How big a buck did you kill up there? Listen. You were in unit 57, right? 58? No, I was 61. Which one? 61.

61. And you killed an 87 inch. You're down in unit 10 in Arizona? Yeah. Okay. You've named the two of the three antelope I've shot in my life. What's the name of the third one? What was that? I was 15 years old. San Juan had 20. Okay. All right. So over the course of 33 years, I've had three buck tags. So that's one every 11 years. That is not an antelope connoisseur. That is not. One every 11 years. Again, I don't care what anybody says. Antelope tags are kind of hard to come by. Well, they are. But they're fun. They covered that in this publication, this January mag, 2022. Arizona. Arizona. Oh, yeah. Pretty legit tough. Might as well be a sheep tag. Especially after two years of drought, they've cut tags. When you've got single digit, two, three, four buck tags, I question why they should even have a hunt. Well, because it's hard to watch things get closed. Yeah.

And when you actually close a unit, there's a lot of gnashing of teeth in the world. Yeah, there is. But, Mike, man, when you have a unit, it's a pretty big geographical area, and you can say, we can kill three buck antelope there. Well, I mean, it's telling you there's a problem. Yeah. There's a problem. I don't know. It's just like, wow. But. I think also, they manage for quality down there, and they have a lot of gnashing of teeth when there's no quality. And it's directly correlated. People want 90 inchers in every unit down there. But. Well. Can't have it. I like that. I like a freaking 90 incher. Don't know that I've ever seen one. Although. No. Right. You saw some in. Where? Your highway time in Nevada this year. I thought you ran across a couple. Seems like I. They were legit. Yeah. You saw some. I mean. Freaking. I would have had some good bucks this year. Freaking legit. I.

Made me want to tag.

That's saying a lot. That is. All right. Well, anyway. So. Bronson. Today, we listened to the Utah Game and Fish. Had a board meeting. And they make major decisions. Yeah. They did. It was kind of interesting. Because. Early December is when they ratified. Excuse me. Their 2022. Bucks and Bulls. Application guidebook. And all. Season dates. And all that. Stuff that. Generally makes. Yeah. That's it. Significant changes during that particular meeting. But there was so much discussion at those round of public meetings on. The. Technology. Camera issue. Technology. Whether it be thermal. Vinyls. Whether it be scopes on muzzle loaders. Trail cameras. That they. Cellular cameras. Rolled. More agenda items to the next month. Which was cougars and bears. By the way. They were doing cougar and bear stuff. So. They threw it in with the bear and the cougar stuff. Totally unrelated. Well. Today.

They. They. They. Put some stuff on the chopping block. July 31st. You got cameras pulled down in Utah. All transmitting and regular trail cameras. Done. Very much similar to Nevada. Other than Nevada has a. Different date for transmitting and regular cameras. Utah's just. Everything on July 31st. You're done. Yeah. And that. And you know. Who knows how it exactly be written. As far as dealing with landowners. And. But that's what. For hunting purposes. For all intents and purposes. To find. And hunt. Big game. Can't be done. With trail cameras. During the seasons. Yeah. For the most part. That's the. I mean. There's other seasons that extend into January. But they cut it off December 31st. That's right. I think. That's right. So cougars and bears in the spring. Trail cameras. You can use the crap out of them. Yeah. Huh? Even cellular. Yeah. Hey. I didn't realize it. Oh.

But there was a lot of guys. Like in Arizona. Yeah. They're using cellular cams. And very effective at it. Well. They'll get a. A lion that comes into a spring. And if you're only an hour from your house. And you get a lion hit a spring. That's. That's two hours old. By the time you're there. You're catching that lion. Yeah. Especially if you're really vested. And more power to it. You're a sheep hunter. Whatever. And it's in a sheep unit. That happens. That's very sensitive. You get. You get one hitting a guzzler. Yeah. And you know. Camping on them. I mean. Nevada. They sit under the aprons. Of the tin. It's just wrong. And ambush the sheep. But hunters can do it. That's not wrong. But. But. But. Lions. That's wrong. That's right. Right. That's right. So anyway. That's going to be a big change coming up for this fall in Utah. Last year they cut out the baiting.

This year they cut out the trail cameras. Starting in August 1st. There's going to be a whole segment of people. With bows in their hands this year. Looking at each other like. What do I do now? Well I mean. Am I not true? We're going to sell more optics. By the way. We sell optics Bronson. Yeah. And we sell trail cams. You're going to need optics. You're going to need a glassing pad. You're going to need more trail cams. Because. They're not. You're not going to be able to transfer them from station to station to station as much. Oh yeah. You're going to be able to run them from the end of June to the end of July. And then pull them down. You know. But anyway. Big changes. Also they have big bad. We ought to do a trail camera rental. You can do yours. Well I don't know. But if we rented out trail cams. To the world. You know what's going to happen. Somebody's going to rent your cameras.

And they'll leave it up past August 1st. And it's going to have your name on it. You're going to get a ticket. No. It's going to put Chris's name on it. Well they're going to get stolen. Somebody's going to be taking 12 gauges to your thing on August 1st. Yeah. Right to the tree. They have to take a big deposit. All right. Well anyway. And the other thing they got rid of in Utah. They did pass to eliminate all thermal. Imaging. Imaging. Which has gotten more popular. Probably like 48 hours before. Yeah. To 48 hours after. So not like the. Follows our flight law. But you can't use it in the hunts anymore. No. You're done. And what else did they do? Is that it? Well I mean yeah. That's a big deal. You know. They were split. And the chairman had to. Yeah. That was on the trail camera thing. Oh yeah or no. Thermal I think it was. I don't remember the book. Yeah. It was a landslide on thermal.

But. They're both gone. Muzzle loader scopes. They didn't. They tabled that. And say we're going to look at all technology. And do surveys. And whatever. What I think is interesting. And. And there was a. A board member that wanted to revisit. All technology. And all things that help us as hunters. And that have. We've come a long ways in a decade. If not two decades. A long ways. We all know this. But you know. I think what's happening is. Is you get. You get some drought. You get some effective hunters. And all of a sudden. We're all just so frustrated. That you want to eliminate everything. When in reality. You eliminate one or two. Two things. And let it breathe for a minute. And you might be happy. Well. And we also came off. Arguably one of the worst hunts. For deer in Utah. In 20 years plus. If not. I mean. It was so dry. So rough. And yeah. You're going to overreact.

The other way too. I'm not saying things are peachy everywhere. But. There's a lot of the stuff. That people are talking about. Like. You just can't quantifiably. Make. You know. You know. Variable power scopes. And turrets on rifles. And stuff. Like. How are you going to really. Check that out. But if you bring it up. And you contend that that's a major source of contention. Okay. Then you can muddy the water. You can muddy the water long enough that nothing. Nothing changes. That's right. Or. You can talk about muzzleloaders that are easy. It's easy to go back to what they. Five or six years ago. It's easy. Get rid of it. No optics on a muzzleloader. Everybody understands. Muzzlers are designed to be primitive weapon season. Yeah. And. The seasons are set in relation to the weapon. A lot of times. Yeah. So. It gets to go first in August. Right. Very vulnerable. If you used rifles there.

What would happen? Kill them all. Yeah. Kill them all. It'd be worse than the rut. Oh. Yeah. I mean. At least. At least in the rut. You don't have the patterns. You know what I mean? And they're not orange on a mountain. The deer aren't orange. It's not coming right after. Right after you ran trail cameras for two or three months. So. I just feel like. Your seasons are set in relation to the weapon. And so. You know. If we're going to have a. Basically. If your muzzleloader is going to be a rifle. Then let's just give it muzzle. Or rifle season dates. Let them hunt in October. You know. When deer are smart. And so. I don't know. I think. I think a better solution. There's going to have to be things like that. Or shorten some seasons. Or. Change the muzzleloaders. I think we should change the muzzleloaders. Go ahead. There's another. Another issue that they.

I feel like was compounded on top of all this. Is. Especially down here. They added hundreds. Of tags. To. The unit right here. Is that going to change things? Yeah. That's going to change things. Yeah. So you have the technology. But also. You're increasing. Hundreds of tags. Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah. And. And the muzzleloader hunt. In the end of September. For mule deer in Utah.

Very. Fairly vulnerable time. For a lot of deer. And then you throw a scope. Muzzleloaders on there now. Which are. Pretty effective. People learn how to use. Three to four hundred yards. Or whatever. And. Yeah. A ballistic coefficient on a. Fifty four calories. Three hundred grain. I don't know. Freaking chunk of lead. Yeah. You know. But it is quantifiable. Math does work. We do have to. We do have to. Bridle ourselves to some extent. It's just. When I talk. When I think of things. They have to be. Very easy to interpret. Don't start talking to me about. Oh you can use a range finder. But not a smart range finder. That takes barometric pressure. That's. That crosses the line. I mean. There's some things. It's not regular. You can't. You can't. How can you regulate? It needs to be realistic. No scopes on muzzle. Very easy for game and fish. Say. You got a scope. What are you doing?

What are you doing? Recurve bows only. Yeah. I mean. That's. You know. You know what one looks like. If it. Does. If I say recurve. Do you know what you. See in your mind? Well. Yeah. Yeah. You do. I'm. A tag that's not punched. I'm just talking. There's no talk out there. People have gone to recurve and longbow only in Utah. We're just. We're using compounds for how many years now. It's just recently that we changed to add scopes. Takeaway scopes were back to where we were. And everybody was somewhat happy and understood that there is a primitive season. Yeah. It's okay to have a primitive season. It's meant to be a primitive season. Doesn't mean we're going back to the flash pan with 4F powder. You know what I'm saying? A piece of obsidian striking a piece of steel. Right. So. So anyway. And then if we're still too effective Bronson because of the barometric pressure in a range finder.

Okay. What do you do? Let's go with a five day rifle season. Five day rifle season. That's what you got to do. Five day rifle season on October 15th. We've done. We did that 15 years ago. We did it for years down here. We had to do stuff like that. Yeah. We did. Several years. Five day hunts. Remember. Remember when people. And what happened after about five years of that. It got really good. And the game and fish was brilliant. And went back to nine days and crushed the boat. I don't think five days is too much to ask for. I don't. I would say. Adjust the muzzle orders. See where this. See where the dust settles at. And if we need more restrictions. Shave tags and shave dates. Shave season dates. Yeah. And then. You know. At some point. Maybe dedicated hunter. Allowing people to hunt all three seasons. Maybe it's run its course. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. At one point. We had the game to.

Yeah. Deal with it all. And now. Maybe we don't have the game to deal with it all. No. I don't know. Cross certain thresholds. Of population wise. Or numbers wise. Or whatever. And you know. Have habitat changes. You have. You know. Highways. And highway mortality. That is additive. You know. Over the years. You just have a lot of things that change over 10 to 20 years. That now. Thresholds. Are crossed. That you just can't. Come back from. Without. Giving up something pretty big again. I did see a comment. Of talking about. Habitat management. And a lot of the projects we've done across the state. Yeah. You know. And at some point. It's time to. Fill the landscape with game animals. You know what I mean. Like we can handle more. How are we going to get more. He's going to do another habitat project. Yeah. I don't know that that's. You got to have it to grow up. But then at some point.

You got to be able. You got to grow it. Let them grow. Yeah. Anyway. Kind of interesting stuff. It's like. There was a lot of emotional people. I mean people. It's one thing. I feel like it's different. We've turned. A corner. So to speak. Before it was. We've had. You know. Family unions on the deer hunt. And all of these kind of things. And you heard a lot of that. And we don't want to give that up. It felt like it was the opposite. People are. So frustrated. That they're not seeing. Take my first born child. Take it. I don't want to hunt for the next 10 years. If it means I can't find a nice buck. They want. Big deer. Good. Solid deer. For a lot of you people. Listen to this. This is a. We're talking about Utahish right now. Every state. Every state right now. Is going through some of this stuff. You've got. I'm using the word fights. But you've got. Discussions. In Wyoming.

From resident. You know. Hunters. To limit non-resident percentage of tags. On quotas. You know. That's another battle there. You got Arizona. Well they can easily win that one. And not give up anything for themselves. Yeah. You've got Arizona. With a battle. I'm just using the term battle. The OTC deer. That's. They're galvant. They're going through a bunch. There's a lot of people. And they're wanting to go back to OTC on everything. For residents. And limit non-residents. Yep. So. That's a battle coming. Every state. Scott Yertle thinks. We're talking about these in Utah. We live here. And we're passionate about it. And we will. We'll hunt with whatever we're told to hunt. Or not hunt with. You know. And. We don't really care. We. We frankly like the variety of the West. It. Allows opportunities. You know. To not have everything be identical. But at the same token.

We've got to be very self-aware. Of when. When. When we got things really good. When we're being really effective. And maybe. Yeah. Give. Give the animals a break. What I feel like. Is back in the heyday. When we thought. It was a heyday of our lifetime. The old timers said. Early 90s. Well. Or like. Mid 2000s. Right. Okay. Mid 2000s. There was a lot. We. A. We were capable. We were the right age. We were willing to work our guts out. We had two or three tags a year total. And we could do them all justice. Now we're getting two or three a month. And spread too thin. Right. So there's a fine. Some of us. Well. Yeah. You are too. Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah. Well. You're spending a lot of time on your hunts too. Yes. But. I mean. You're not spread so thin. You can't do that. And I'm picking and choosing which ones to spend a lot of time on. But I need. I need to. A. Go back to that.

And have less tags. And spend more time. But. But B. I was told back then. That the good days were over. And now I'm looking at it going. Those were some amazing times. Those were my good days of my life. They were the amazing. Amazing. That was the 80s. Or 60s. Yeah. 50s. Whatever. The 90s. Early 2000s. Until 2002. That drought crushed some stuff. It was rough. It was rough. Yeah. There was some. For a while after that. There was some of that. Some. Some units. But. So. Fun stuff. But I think honestly. Honestly. I feel like this is shaping up to be a banner year. Antler growth wise. Where? And I think. Well. I think you're going to have southern Utah. Nevada. Arizona. Arizona. I think if things keep going. Things are good. I go out and I see whites. White stuff's everywhere. Yeah. Snow. And we haven't had that. And they say we're 150 to 200 percent in all these southern Utah ranges.

And I'm just wondering what normal means. 150 to 200 percent of normal. Does that mean like of a drought year? That's what I told Josh. What does that mean? The last two years have been so bad. When you have zeros. Did it change the average? When you had zeros. Did it change the average? Yeah. The average now went way down. Just in two years. I'm trying to wrap my head around this 200 percent thing because I look up on the mountain and I'm still like there's not that much snow. Maybe it's because I'm from northern Utah. But. Well if you. Apparently. I haven't driven over the top. But if you look at the stone tail sites before the New Year's weekend there was 60 and 54 inches up here. Which. That one was the biggest one in the state. And that was Kolob. Well I learned in finance that you can alter numbers and graphs to look anything you want them to look like. Yep.

Attorneys can show anything in court to make it fit their thing. We know that. And the same attorney on the other side can use the same numbers to show that your client's guilty. That's right. That's right. Everybody's getting him off with the same numbers. I'm looking at Josh's graph. I'm seeing lots of blue. But you know what? Ten minutes prior he showed us a graph that said we were in a major drought still. As of December 28th a major drought. Well last time I went up there there was only 10 inches of snow so it was in December. He said there's 10 inches of water at Midway in the snow. Really? That's what it's saying. Wow. And that was before the 54 inches there was before this weekend. And then the next catastrophe is when it gets too warm too fast and it all comes out and floods my house. Floods to the neighborhoods to the valley. It'll happen. You wait. I'm ready now though.

I'm sorry. There ain't no. We're going to be loaded. We're going to be sitting there with the little tractors purring. Hey. Tell the world. You were standing in my driveway in what? Oh I was there. Six, eight, ten inches of water? Yeah. And if I walked out to the road it was 18. Fish. Fish. Swam by. I was waiting for boats to come by. Fish swam by our feet. There was a pond that had thousands of fish next to us. I don't know how they could breathe in that. It was like chocolate milk. Mm-hmm. And they were sucking it. When the water went away there was no fish. I don't know where they went. Did you ever find a carcass? No I never found. No I never did. And there were hundreds. Hundreds. Where did they go? I don't know. A lot of dogs ate well. I don't know. I don't know. Were they stuck in that ten inches of mud that was left? Maybe. Oh that's a good chance. Yeah. And that dried rock solid.

Yeah. In fact. That's how fossils. That's how dinosaurs are made. They're going to be fossils. No question. It's like 2021. These T-Rex bones. I'm so glad to see 2021 end. Yeah. And go away. Yeah. If you read my article in January magazine I said goodbye 2021. Yeah but Bronson you killed a freaking 200-inch or who did that in 2021. Well. Well. I mean. Tell me. Yeah. Name one. But I got lucky. I had a great tag and I had a 20 something days. Yeah. That's what I'm going to try to do. It wasn't easy. I mean it goes back to what you're saying. Time. Sometimes we try to run around and grab all the. Any low hanging fruit we can and call it smash and grab. What I. I hear. I have. It's not. I have a question for you. It's not going to work. That worked. You know it worked. Would you do it again? No. That's my point though. I mean. I mean. Certain tags you know. You realize you got. You.

Not lucky but. You made your luck on that one. But you don't have enough confidence to want to go do it again. Yeah. It was a grind. Yeah. I mean. I mean. All's well that ends well. But it could have ended with a whole different way. I tell you that. Well anyway. Let's put it this way. Go ahead. I just about started hunting wolves for straight seven straight days. Oh I know. Because I saw some of them and I'm like. Oh no. Wow this is. All right. This is better than the deer hunt I've been doing for 20 something days. And nobody thinks you're unethical for dropping a long bomb on one. No. Well. And they were. It was. It was intense. I had them. I had them at 300 yards running after coyotes and stuff was scattering everywhere. And it was chaos. All of a sudden you started coyote howling. I was. I did. And then I realized. I can't. I don't have a good view around me. I'm in tall brush.

I can see one direction. It's unnerving. They don't hurt people. But it is freaking unnerving. They're coming to kill a coyote. Well I know. I'm a yipping coyote. And that's exactly what. A coyote was yipping. And I had four of them running down a ridge. With their ears pinned back. 150 pounds apiece. And then I run up on there. And I start squawking like a coyote. And I'm seriously looking around like. What am I really doing right now? By myself. I've got my in reach. I can eat SOS. Yeah. It's in my back. They're not going to hurt you. If they knocked me down from behind. I mean it was just kind of unnerving though. You know what? The wolves are unnerving. People are unnerved by wolves. Well I had just seen them. They were running so fast with their ears pinned. I had heard this coyote. And all these deer out there. And I'm trying to find this coyote. And I pick up four wolves. Yeah.

Just barrel rolling down this ridge. And so I'm throwing stuff in the truck. And I got to drive up. Because I'm like. I'm going to smoke a wolf. They're only like 500 yards. But they ran over the ridge. So I run around the corner. Drive up there. Sit down. And just start yipping. And then after about 60 seconds. I'm like. I'm going to get back in my truck. Well it was just like. This is different. This is not like calling a coyote. No. He wins you. He runs. He runs. If this is a wolf. He sees a flicker. We should call Clint. Have we ever called Clint. And talked to him about that rabid coyote. That basically chased us down. No. Call him. Oh. We might should call him. Might have to call Aaron too. He did reply. But I don't know if he's got good enough service to answer. But his hunting season is over. Which is a good thing. Trust me. Well. Okay. Before.

I want to make one point before we call Clint. And he doesn't even know we're going to call him. But. All right. All of this snow is going to mean good antir growth. And all of a sudden we have a full change of attitude. And we're wanting scopes back on muzzleloaders. I don't know. I'm just saying. You know how that has happened here? It has happened. What? You go from a drought. We're. Oh. It's such a doom and gloom. Back to back years. 18 and 19 were two back to back. Terrible. And then in 19 was one of the best years. Especially like on the Pond Scott. In maybe 20 or 30 years. Yeah. Crazy. Back to back. That's where I was talking about tag numbers. I feel like instead of changing laws. Maybe work on tags. Season dates and tags. Season dates and tags. The stuff that's easy. You can change year to year. Adjust those. That works. The challenge. The challenge is. We've had this under a.

Let's call it a general status. Meaning. More tags are issued. People can go regularly. That means every two to four years now. Or five. In some cases. Bronson. And it's becoming somewhat of a quite limited draw. And so there's this fine balance. Are we just going to do away with that. And throw everything in the limited. Limited entry draw. And call it a day. And I mean. At some point. That seems like where it's headed.

I hate to see that too. I like to be able to hunt pretty regular. My kids like to hunt regular. So there's this. There's a fine balance. I just wish there was more deer. And lots of big ones. All right. Let's call Clint. Let's just see if he remembers the story.

He might be trying to get caught up. He's been vacationing. Where? Where? He's been on a cruise. What's up? Hey. Just tell the world. On the Epic Outdoors podcast. What it's like to go on a COVID cruise.

Am I on the podcast? Come on. Gosh. Hey. You sound like you've got good lungs. I thought you were going to. You got good lungs under you. I thought you were going to call and talk about Utah trail cameras with me or something. We already did that. We already did that. We crushed it. We don't even want your opinion. Yeah. But he's. We. The topic came up of wolves, coyotes, and then a rabid coyote. And so then. Jason says you've got a story. Dude. Okay. There's not very many people that are chased by a rabid coyote. But you and I were. Well, kind of. I almost killed it. We already talked about that once. Did we? Did we on a prior podcast? Yeah. We talked about it on a podcast once. Tell me, I don't remember, you actually had a coyote chase you guys with bared teeth and fangs? Well, I mean, Clint shot and shot and shot.

And this thing looked at him and go back to Mousin and actually walked toward us. And I'm like, this is a rabid coyote. You're not thinking square. Bronson was talking about wolves and how wolves were chasing a coyote in Idaho. And then he went to call on yipping. I ran up on the hill within five to ten minutes and sat down and started yipping just like the coyote, thinking I'm going to call in the wolves. Because they were just running down this mountain trying to kill a coyote. And then I got thinking, I'm alone. And I'm in the brush. And I'm sounding like a yipping coyote with four wolves right here. What am I doing? 400 pounders, 100 and a quarter, whatever, 80 to 100 and a quarter. It was a little bit different feeling than I've ever had. It just dawned on me. But not until I was there and it was a quiet time. And I'm like, it's real quiet. Anyway, it just reminded me.

You and I dealt with one of them kind of coyotes. Could you imagine a wolf in that particular situation? Oh, I don't know. So anyway, I guess since you brought it up, what's your opinion on the trail cam? And the thermal imaging? And the muzzleloaders with scopes? I did not catch all the verbiage on the thermal imaging. What's the wording on that? Can't do it 48 hours before or after? Can't hunt with it anymore. Because nobody can use it after. Two days before. Can you not use it at all or just at night? No. No, not at all. Okay. So it's like 48 hours before and then through the whole hunt. You can't use it. Yeah. Okay. All right. I didn't know what the exact one was. I don't think it applied to. I shouldn't say this. I don't know if it applied. I'm thinking it applies to coyotes. I think it's a big game. But I don't know if I can shoot coyotes. People are doing that now.

We still had to work while we were listening to it. So we were trying to pull out all the details. Right. So on spotlighting, can you spotlight without a gun in the truck? Yeah. You can spotlight without a gun in the truck. Okay. So can you thermal without a gun in the truck during a hunt? No. It's during a hunt. So no. Thermal's aiding and finding. That's what they're saying. If you've got a tag. Spotlighting's aiding and finding. I don't. Well, yeah. We'll read the fine print. Some of the states, like Colorado has wording that's very similar to spotlighting on their thermal stuff. Yeah. They all got to get it updated with the times. Well, so what do you think, Clint? What's your opinion? Well, I'll just play by the rules. Yeah. Whatever the rules are. That's right. And I don't. I'm a little bit mad just because I got a few cameras that I like to leave out year-round.

And it's going to create. Oh, we decided we're going to. If this thing goes into effect. If it were to go into effect year-round or whatever, we're going to have to strap on some snowshoes. Yeah. I'm glad that this doesn't kick into effect until August 1st. So the snow can melt and I can get to 20 miles. Like Adam said, Aaron likes to just throw them out randomly. Check them two years later. Yeah. He gets them in the spring. Yeah. I got some that are two years out. And I got some that I check once a year. And now I'm going to have to go and just pull all those and put them back out again. It's just going to create more work for me. I don't know if it's going to. So, Clint, you've kind of been around the guiding arena, guided with me a bit and then, oh, some other places and whatnot. But just, I mean, is this going to help and hurt guides and help or hurt the average Joe?

I think both are going to be hurt equally on that. I think average Joe might get hurt more. Well, average Joe that runs cameras, I should say that. Yeah. And there, it is true, I think, in some areas, especially like really desert type areas, that it does help you focus on bigger animals. It kind of knows where to go. That you might not have otherwise found. Right. But the thing that I think a lot of these guys think, oh, we're going to stick it to the guides and we're not going to let the guides do this anymore because they're killing all the big stuff and it's all about trail cameras. I got news for you. The guides know the area. It's not going to change. And they're going to hire some guides. They're going to hire more guides. Yeah. Okay, their trail camera is going to be Joe Schmo sitting there with a set of binoculars. Okay, that's their new trail camera.

It's going to be like Jason Carter. The human trail camera. It's going to be like Jason Carter when he's 14 years old. No, I was like nine, eight, seven, six. Dude. Swaying in a quakey that's about eight inches wide. Don't get out. What do you mean that is 40 mile an hour wind? Don't get out. Where's your logbook, Tom? I watched trees crash to the ground. I'm in a quakey. Where's your logbook? Anyway. All right. Keep going. Keep going. Well, I think I agree. It's not going to change. It's not. It's not going to change the guides too much. They'll have. I think it's harder for the guides. It's full time. And I think deer will live. They're going to have less pressure. Yeah, it will. It's not going to be non-impactable to guides. Think about some of this thick country, you guys, that you know, like Boulder. Oh, Pharrell. Super thick. Pharrell. Right.

It's places you have when you can't check during a hunt. It's, yeah. It's kind of significant, right? It's kind of significant. I think so. Still allows you to scout, Clint. Yeah. I know. Are you going to scout harder than ever? Are you going to buy double the cameras you normally have? No. I have a hard enough time running the ones I got. It's tough. I mean, you're going to have to, earlier season, you're just going to have to do more. And you're just going to have to work more. Yeah. And rely on it less during, after hunting stuff starts. That period from about August 1st to the 20th until our bow hunt starts, you're going to have a bunch of time on your hands now. Oh. You're not going to be running cameras anymore. You're going to be scouting. Well, instead, I might actually find more deer now because I'm not running cameras. I can actually go sit somewhere.

You know what I'm really excited about? My afternoon naps. Like, I haven't been able to nap because when there's cameras to check, you're- In the middle of the day, you do it all day long now. Yeah. Bring it on. I'm going to be fresh daylight and dark now. Yeah. That's right. Fresh. How nice is that going to be? Dude, it's daylight freaking 18 hours a day. Those of you guys that are 45 years and older, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Naps coming. I got one more thing I don't like about it, though. It's how are they going to enforce this? Okay. So, I'm going to follow the rule. What's going to make me mad is- You're going to enforce it for them. You're going to rip cameras off the trees. Well, but, okay. If they're not hunting, they got a right to the camera still. I don't know. We'll have to read it. I don't want to read the fine print. I don't know.

I've seen the way it's written. Maybe. But if you're that guy running a camera and you're doing it in the gray, you're going to be publicly humiliated. Well, let's just put it this way. Nevada, the few people that leave a few lingering, they've gotten crushed. Oh, yeah. I mean, they got found, turned in. They're very self-policing sportsmen and hunters. Yeah. People don't appreciate somebody bending a rule, really, on it. You're going to have some private issues here and there. I'll run some cameras, probably. And there will be some. I don't know. I just don't like it. Yeah. I hope what they do has some teeth in it. But from what I've seen so far, it's going to be – they've got a proven tent on this. I don't know. This is what I think, Clint. Just write the ticket. Just write the ticket and let the judge decide. That's what Nevada does. They write a ticket. Let the judge decide.

Instead, we all worry about what can actually be enforced and this and that and how is it read and interpreted and all this. Because if you feel like – if the officer feels like the guy's in the wrong, write the ticket. Whatever. And let the judge decide. He'll be like, yeah, it's obvious you're running. You're an idiot. I'll play by the rules. Might have no problem with it. Yep. We'll see what happens. I'm real curious because Arizona's law, I think, is real similar. And so this is going to be their first go at it. Arizona, yeah, what's funny is, I mean, they come out – you can personal enjoyment run a camera. But then later they quantify it and you read it. You can't freaking just run a camera and say it's for personal enjoyment if you have any intent whatsoever to use that information. You know what I mean? So it's – I don't know. Anyway, I don't know. We'll see how it goes.

Well, anyway. All right, guy. Okay, man. Take it easy. You bet. Bye. Bye. What else were we going to talk about? We had another vein we were going to tap into. Oh, Big Bookies. Okay, yeah. Let's talk about that real quick, Bronson, in between giving somebody else a call. So Arizona came out. The regs slash tags in Unit 10, which because the Big Bo, Bill Keyes Ranch, within that unit is more than 50% of the unit and a huge portion of the access. And so they just couldn't come up with an agreement, you know, for allowing trespass people to draw tags in Unit 10, whether it be antelope or even deer and elk. The deer, this late deer hunt that just went on, you know, guys were being told no. So anyway, slash the tags. Of course, when we went to print, when the Arizona Game and Fish went to print with their regs. Their printed regs are going to be wrong, too, now. Right.

They've updated the online version. But anyway, yesterday came out with an email and basically told everybody agreement's been reached for this year. We'll see how the future works out. But anyway, it's been reached and tag numbers will be resumed back to normal somewhat. So anyway. Big slashing of tags that were in print, either in our magazine or in their printed regs initial set of them. Not going to happen. So antelope elk will be pretty much status quo in terms of numbers for 2022. Kind of cool. Kind of a big deal, too. A lot more, a lot of tags. I mean, it was cut in over half. I mean, it was a lot. Maybe 75%, maybe. Yeah. So anyway. Been a little arm wrestling over that, you know, and it'll probably be a contentious issue. Because they don't have landowner tags. There's no way to really compensate a landowner without just flat out paying. They just have never gone to that.

There's nothing in Arizona that's gone to that status. Like Utah or Colorado or Nevada. Or New Mexico. They never will. I don't think. Do you? I don't. No. Anyway. Kind of interesting. Kind of cool. Of course, we, you know, covered Arizona elk and antelope in the January 2022 edition of Epic Outdoors as well as Wyoming. We covered sheep, moose, goat, elk, and bison in there. Bronson, I was told that we give too much information on the podcast. What do you say to that? I think we're done talking about it. Okay. No more. No more info. I'm joking. We don't want to do that. We've said that. We've been pretty clear about that. I think the last podcast, maybe, Chris, we talked about why we don't go line by line, unit by unit, species by species, every unit in the state. That's what we're here for, to call, to get consultation from. That's what the magazine's for.

If you listen to the podcast for free, which we maintain that, and we gave you all that out there for free, it kind of cheapens what our members, you know, support us for and get and things like that. There was a lot of people supporting the Members Only Idea podcast. Members Only Podcast Idea, and we're floating that around. We're floating it around, and we may actually go into great detail line upon line. I think it would be fun to just. And make it Members Only and just talk about unit X. I think it would be fun to just talk. Crush unit X. Just talk instead of. Yeah. We might do it. Be bridled. Have to log into your own portal in your own account to hit a certain link. Chris, I don't know. IT people, Chris, John, they know how to make it work. It wouldn't be as easy to tap into. Chris, can we do it? Oh, yeah, you can do it. You can do anything, huh? Yeah. You can do anything.

Chris, you got songs for sale out there. We could sell podcasts. What? Right? Oh. You mean like on iTunes? Yeah. Buy it per download? Yeah. Pay it per download? Okay. It wouldn't make much. Well, we're not doing it for no buck, bro. We ain't doing that. Well, I make a couple cents for a play. Do you? That ain't worth it. Unless, Chris, there's a lot of playing of your songs going on. If it's about the numbers. You're getting a lot of downloads, aren't you? Walmart principal. Sell it for cheap. Anybody out there, go support Chris Peterson. Chris. Well, thank you. Throw a little plug out there real quick. Appreciate it. How can they find you? Just Spotify, Apple Music, anywhere. Chris Peterson Country. Got a website, Chris? Yeah. CP Country. CP Country. We're playing. There's a whole other side of Chris out there. I guess there's the little announcement that has to do with hunting.

We're actually on Wednesday night, the vendor dinner. We're playing that at the expo. Come on. Yeah. We're playing what? You are? Yeah. We didn't know that, Bronson. We were figuring we weren't going to go to that. We've talked about that. They flirted with you for years, and we couldn't figure out why they couldn't land your bus there. He's too expensive. You're going to be there. No, you're going to be. Because he was too expensive. He's going to be there anyway. He doesn't have to pay for him to travel. But hey, it's awesome. So that's the welcome back or whatever they're calling it. Wednesday night. It's the hunt expo for vendors. Wednesday night in the ballroom. Speaking of that, we'll be there. That's coming up. We've got about a month away. And if you're ready to buy some optics, we are bringing the trailer. The big trailer. We're bringing lots of stuff.

It's going to be good to see people in person. We're operating under the assumption that Omicron doesn't put its ugly vice upon the state of Utah and shut it down. Let's just say this, Bronson. But come on. You're at a hunting convention, largely Republican. It's happening. How many are people going to wear masks? Do we have to? Have they said that? Dude, come on. You're in Salt Lake. You're going to be wearing a mask. Well, let's have some stylish ones like Camo Balaclavas. Something like that. At least whatever. I don't know. Hey, I'll buy yours. You buy mine. Deal. I can find something good on YouTube. Oh, I can find something. Hey, I can Google it. Find something on Amazon. Whatever. So anyway, yeah. So if you're looking to the expo, it would be February. You can validate. It says you must validate. So you go there. You apply for some tags set aside for the expo.

And you have to do it online this year. You're not going to be able to get there and do it on paper. You have to do it online. And I don't know if they're going to have computers there. It says validate in person at the expo February 10th to the 13th. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so you're going to go. But they're not going to just have people there filling out paper applications. No papers anymore. This is all online. Online only. Really? Yeah. All online. That's a change. I assume they're going to have some computers there. But bottom line, do it beforehand. Then you walk up. Flash your ID. You go in the draw. And you walk away. A happy man. That's right. Or a woman. Well, Chris, you're going to be playing at the Hunt Expo. How about that? Wednesday night, everybody. Anybody that's around dealing with the boosts, whatnot, the exhibitors. Is that exhibitor all right?

Yeah, I think it is. It's the vendor dinner. Well, we've got to go to that, Bronson. I mean, Chris is legit. And you can support him. Again, Chris, iTunes, wherever, Spotify. What is it? CP Country. Huh? Yeah. Spotify, Apple Music. Apple Music. Anywhere you get your music. Yeah. Let's make those pennies. Good stuff. Let's make the pennies out of those pennies.

All right. Well, anyway, pretty awesome. Pretty proud of you. Good work. Thank you. It's awesome. Heck yeah. All right, Bronson. Well, I don't know. What do you want to do? We had one more shout out of something. The Hunt Expo and something. Well, the only thing I was thinking about is these Wazoo freaking tripods. Let's talk about them. Let's throw them out a little bit. So we did. We started working with a tripod company out there. It's just incredible. These Revik tripods, they're unbelievable. Bronson, this lightweight backpacker tripod. You and I normally run a Gitzo tripod. How does our backpacker? Mine has plenty of JB Weld on it. It's probably 20 years old. And I don't want to give it up. I don't want to give it up. It works. It's sentimental. It'll probably be laid in my coffin someday. It's gone with me so many places. But it has JB Weld. Yeah. It's like that.

But this is a newer, greater, better. And they actually extend higher. But they compress shorter. So I like that. They do. The short one is like a 46.5 inch max height. But then it compresses to 15 inches. It's 1.65 pounds. So this is the Revik. This is the Revik. And it's a very lightweight tripod. It's the Backpacker Stabilizer Series. The G2053 is what it is. We'll bring these to the Hunt Expo. We'll have them here at the booth. Yeah. Then the little bit bigger one, which I'm a huge fan of this. So we've dealt with a lot of tripods in our life. Worn out a lot of tripods. Broke them. Remember, Chris? We broke one in Mexico. I've been through a lot of tripods. Yeah. You're just poor rough on gear. Anyway. But this one doesn't have that center column. But Bronson, still. You're 6'1". You don't need it. 6'2". 2'3". And I stand up no problem. Not even on tippy toes.

Don't even have to put my legs out at 60 degree angles to lose height. Right. Right. I can just stand there and look through this. Thanks for that visual. Wonderful. Who hasn't been there? Who hasn't been there? That's right. So anyway, 66 inch max height. By the time you put your tripod adapter and all that other, your binos on top of that, it's fine. It's great. It's unbelievable. It's, I don't know. Carbon fiber legs. It's a bit beefier. It's meant for, you can put a BTX, you can put the 95 stuff on that to be able to hold weight. I mean, it gets rated up to 30 pounds, isn't it? That's what's. 44 is what that one says. 44 pounds max weight. It's a good ball head on it. Yeah. Without the head, it's 3.35 pounds. And then with the head, you're talking another pound, 1.1. Yeah. So four and a half pounds. But good all around tripod. Truck. You know, even a day use tripod.

Well, it fits inside the pack. That's what I like about it. It collapses small too. We'll have these, but in addition to the range finders. I think we've talked about the rivet range finders. These come with a ball head on them, but you can twist that off and use any old head. Any head that you already have on your tripod. Yeah. Usually your heads don't break. It's your legs. And people are attached to the head. I mean, dude, because they like the way it pivots, swivels, whatever. You get your system with your fingers and all that, the way you loosen and move. That's what your... The legs are what break too. They splinter. You know, stuff like that. So that being said, we talked about the tripods. We are a dealer of Revik products now. So we have the BR4 range finder as well. It's a ballistic range finder. We just released a review of those on YouTube.

If you want to go check that out, it's an amazing range finder. So check out our YouTube channel. I think you put Josh on there, right? Yeah. And we had lots of comments on his mustache. Did you? You did? Oh, yeah. Come on. What was it? Whack or no wax? He just said, you're going to have to get a new model because I can't even pay attention to what he's saying. That mustache is so beautiful. That's disgusting. They said the word beautiful? Wow. Oh, he's a friend of Josh's. He's busting him a little bit. He is busting him. And he needs it. He's proud of that. What did they just ask him? Wax or no wax on the mustache? He needs some wax on that. Baird's beard oil. Everybody go out there and Google it. Go tell Jeff Baird we sent you. I guess it works, Bronson. You and I, we're clean shavings. Whatever. Whatever. You know. Doesn't affect us. All right. So, anyway, we do sell those.

We have them in stock. We'll make you a heck of a great deal. We'll bring them there. Plus, everything else from Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, Sig, Vortex, Stealth Cam, all that. We'll be bringing it to the expo. So, anyway, looking forward to it. Yeah, it's a little over a month away. So, I want to call Jeff. He's so opinionated. And I just love being the devil's advocate with him. Let's just see what he thinks about the trail cams. He'll probably be wound up. But, you know, he's plumbing. So, this is kind of an exciting game for him. He might be digging a septic tank hole and not even know how to happen. I guarantee he's busy because you can't get plumbers right now. No. No, you can't. It's unbelievable. Anything in the construction industry.

Adam. Are you a fan of the trail cam ban or not? Is it going to go through? It went through today, boss. Done, boss. What? What? Welcome to the podcast, by the way, today. Welcome to Epic. Are you serious? Are you guys? Yeah. What are you doing? Did it really go through? Like, it's done. Oh, yeah. What do you mean? Basically, August 1st. Same as Nevada. August 1st. December 31st, you can't run cameras. Of any kind. What about of any kind? And so, the cell phone cameras are okay. You can run those the other part of the year. Up to. The other part of the year. August 1st? Yeah. Up until August 1st, they're done. And then January 1 to July 31st, do whatever you want. When the deer and elk don't have antlers. Yeah. There you go. Okay. And I might get some hate for this, but I don't like the idea of banning the trail cameras.

Just for the simple fact of, I know a lot of guys that do it recreationally. And when you cannot get a tag yourself, it's kind of fun to get out, have an extra reason that forces you to get out there and check cameras. I mean, that's fun. There's no question about it. It's addicting and it's fun. I love it. And I do have a few elk units in Utah when I don't even have a hunter book there. I still run them there for the fun of the, you get continual use on the unit. And so now- And you may find a freaking giant, right? And who doesn't like to have a picture of a freaking giant? Absolutely. You know? And then what about private property? Well, if it's what they did have, you know, within the normal agricultural practices is the way they established that. So if you've never run cameras at all in your beef operation now, now you got 300 of them on your property.

And you got 14 agents running them for you? Probably going to be a problem. Probably suspect. Probably suspect. But if you're losing a calf and you got a bear carcass, bear- You got quite a bit of private up there in northern Utah. I guess that would possibly affect you. Well, yeah. I mean, I think it's going to affect you. Because I run cameras on roads to keep track of trespassers. You know what I mean? I don't know if that's in the clause. I don't think that's in the clause. Tell us a time when you've run a guy off. I know it's happened recently, too. It happens quite recently. I mean, I'm talking. So the problem is, is the unit I'm hunting. Now, this is a real problem. This is another piece of the state that I'm going to vote. Here we go. Here we go. I've got my red solo cup. I'm ready. Perfect.

You're going to need it. So the state issues a lot of tags in a unit that, let's face it, the box elder unit where I spend most of my time in Utah is- Is largely private. Largely private. Now, there's some big chunks of public, yes. But, you know- But it's crappy. But it's crappy. And it's hard to get to. Well, it can be good. It can be good, whatever. But the problem is, there's so many tags. I would love to figure out how many tags per square acre they're giving out on that actual public ground. So what happens is, is my trespassers never show up opening weekend. Because they go out and they try to do the right thing opening weekend. Hunt the public. So you're giving them the benefit of the doubt. You're saying they're at heart, they're honest, hardworking folk. They're trying to do it right. But guess what? When they go out there- They don't see any game.

And they see orange everywhere. And they're trying to feed the family. And it's combat hunting out there. You know, it truly is combat hunting. There's so many people. They start thinking about- They get desperate, dude. They do stupid things, you know? Wonder where that Jeff Johns property's at.

It happens. I'm not kidding you. This is a real thing. Like, it legit happens. And so, anyway. But, okay. Now, back to trail cameras. Yeah, it's a bummer. Because I truly think that there's a lot of people just really enjoying the outdoors through trail cameras. And they're getting taken away. That's true. If I didn't have a single tag, I'm running a ton of cameras. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and you know what's the funny part is, well, how's John's reaction? I think on the last podcast- Oh, John? John doesn't even know. Well, I haven't drove cameras from years ago. What? It's went out all over the place. I got a few. I've got a couple. One in particular. What's the statute of limitations on this stuff? Is it seven years? Adam's got a camera that is basically, what do they call them? Half-life in science? Yeah. The sucker's all but dirt right now. It is now.

Probably when you go there, it's going to be a science experiment to see how much plastic has melted in the desert sun. Yeah, that's right. Desert. Desert. That's funny stuff. It'll never get picked up. Just say it on the podcast. I'm not going to get out. Speaking of a decade ago. What? Wasn't that out there about a decade ago? Oh. At where? Or Jason's? No, the other one. I thought that was the one out there. Chris is referring to a very specific camera somewhere. Hey, Chris. Just text me some, you know, coordinate where that is. It might have been 2008-ish. Jason's Sheep Hunt? Is this about night grazing? No. No. No. No. No. No, that was 2008. But, yeah, those got cleaned up. We packed them in and packed them out. Okay. Well, those were D-cell and C-cell batteries. Like, it was disgusting. Those Leaf River cameras? We fought. They were four pounds. Can't believe it. Four pounds.

Packed them in 20 miles. 20 miles. And you're buying batteries for those things, for those D-cell cameras? Oh, my gosh. They would last, like, 30 days, right, Carter? Yeah. If you were good. And you got the big old CF card that can't hold any memory. I mean, dude. The lenses turned yellow. But we thought that was awesome because we were only two years from the time we had to put a roll of 36 exposure film in there. Yeah. We thought they were awesome. Because we'd go to Walmart, one hour photo. And sometimes the 35 out of the 36 photos were not good. Waving grass. All mine were like cow elk licking the camera. Because you sweat so bad carrying them in because they're so heavy. Walmart wouldn't charge you for the ones you didn't want. I know. That was huge. I mean, geez. Huge. Hey, I regurgitated a 400-inch six-point that we got on that 35 millimeters the other day. Yeah. I remember it.

Anyway, Jeff. Well, we just thought we'd call you. How about thermal? They did away with thermal. So you can't have thermal at all? No. 48-hour rule. Yeah. Like flying, basically. You can't do that two days before. Well, you know, I mean, I'll be honest. Like, I've used that for trespassers, too. Like, when it's archery season. You don't want to get crossways with Jeff at midnight. Yeah. Wow. Well, I like people. Have you got thermal scope on a rifle out there? I'm nervous now. On a bipod. Are you looking at people through a thermal scope?

Oh, yeah. They come up and walk my fence. They come up and walk my fence. And so when they come out at four in the morning and start hiking down the fence, you just watch them and see what they're doing. And then when they go to jump across the fence, you turn your lights on on the top of the hill and they see you and they jump back across the fence. Hey. And go away. Holy cow, Jeff. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Dang. Like, those are things that have come in awfully handy. You know, it'd be funny if you walked up to them. I mean, dark night. And you walk up to them with the thermal. They don't even know you're coming. I don't know. I would never. You get shot. Yeah, you might. You get shot. Shot on your own property. Like you're staring at your bear guy. The dude starts just shooting down the trail and they hit the freaking horse and stuff. Who does that?

Jeff, you've spent a lot of time on a horse. Why don't you start thinking when that happened? One guy's done that. It's not. I don't know that it. I mean, it's hard to believe it was possible other than it happened. Yeah. That the guy wasn't just trying to kill him. But dude, when a dude scared out of his mind, I mean, I guess. I don't know. So, are you ready for the expo? Yeah, we're getting ready. We just talked about that. 30 days. We'll be there. Chris has got a performance there. We just found out today. He's gigging Wednesday night there. They finally sealed the deal. They've been flirting with him for about six years. Nice. You going to come run the Epic booth? Dude, I was thinking about it earlier this year. I'm like, you know what? They probably got so many guys. They really don't need me this year. Like, this is going to be the first time in years.

Because I was kind of going down and helping push stuff. Before Epic was truly what it is now, Epic. Because you guys rented a booth like a couple of years before you really had a booth. Back when we had pallets for a booth. And that booth was made with a lot of love. It was. And if anybody wants it, it is for free at my house. It's a wreck. No. It's a wreck. She's real attached to that. That's a wreck. That's in our museum. That's in the Epic Outdoors Museum. Adam and I were looking through photos. Yeah. It's like sad minnow, man. I mean, I don't know. We might just one a year, burn one pallet a year at hunting camp just to reminisce over the pallet. A little bonfire. We've come a ways, boys. Yeah. I'm not going to lie. Well, Jeff, we'd love to have you down there. We hope you're there. You're probably digging septic tomorrow. Maybe not in the winter.

But you're plumbing somewhere somehow. You plumbing today? No. I just got out of a trailer for an old lady that her pipes were all froze up. Anyway, we've been thawing a lot of pipes this last day in fixing breaks and lines because we had a heck of a cold spell there for a few days. What was it? Was it 84 that was shut down? I was seeing it on the news. Yeah. 84. So basically from Twin Falls, all the freeways, all the way over to Idaho Falls, it was all shut down. Wow. I mean, just most, I mean, I don't think it was the, we haven't had snowfall like you have had down there, like up on Beaver and whatnot, but we've had wind. So like we got a little bit of snow and then it blew. Yeah. I buried my truck the other day. Big old diesel. Bury it? Oh, yeah. I was high centered. What'd you have to do? Did you get the Mini-X out or what?

No, I just dug and dug and dug and dug and dug and it took me an hour to dig it out, but I got it out. Yeah. No big deal. So were you chasing trespassers when you got buried? No. That was worth it. Just coyote, honey. Oh. Oh, good. Well, you know, shutting down freeways, that's a good way to control COVID. You can control the spread. Carter. I'm just saying. There's some positive here. Don't get me on a tangent right now. Why? I've been listening to all this different stuff. You're going to wear a mask at the expo? No. I've just been listening to all this stuff everywhere and I'm like, I am so over the government over this. If you come to our booth, you're going to have double layer masks. Just this warning now. Can't be spitting on people. Can't be spitting on people. Double layer. Double layer. And one of them has got to be plastic.

And I don't know what it is about the hunting industry, but we all invade your personal space. You know how you have a three foot buffer? Like, don't come closer than that. Okay. We all do it, man. Pre-COVID. Let's just talk about that. How many times in the winter at the shows, sheep show in there, what percentage of the time do we all get sick after one of those? 100%. 100%. Okay. We're doing our best to meet, greet, but we're also shaking. And I mean, it happens every time. A Chinaman brought COVID over through a hunting expo. That's right. No question. That was their dissemination. I think it was SHOT Show, dude. Remember? It was SHOT Show. You got SHOT Show. You got SHOT Show. And some people go to Dallas. It does have a lot of all of the optics and a lot of handling stuff. All those manufacturers from over there, from China and everywhere. Guaranteed. Guaranteed.

That's where we got it from. Guaranteed. Dude, if you want to try to do a six foot, like, personal zone, you won't even make it in the door of the Western Expo. Everybody invades each other's personal space. That's the way it is. There's no personal space there. So much passion. Everybody's just, you know, got hunting stories and everybody's excited. And we haven't seen each other for, what? We've been cooped up for two years. Two years. Yeah. Hey, what's going in the side? What are you guys going to do? The side. You just got to stand the booth out of the side? Because normally. Big animals. Normally. Oh, yeah. No, we got optics and tripods and animals. Going to be. We're going to fill it up. We got plenty of room for that. Couches. Yeah. So now it's not a debate of this 240 or this 220. No. Now you got room for both. Bring them both. Bring them all.

Might have a couple of little fridges of drinks and stuff, I'm thinking. Yeah, Jeff. It's going to be good. It's going to be just like. Somebody was threatening to upgrade our table. Did they upgrade your table yet? Well, not yet. We're working on it. He's going to upgrade the podcast table for us. Hey, how about we take it? That was Messerly. How about we take the pallets? We take the pallets and make a table. Messerly's a good dude. Have you seen his work? He was dissing on our table a little bit, but then he came to us with solutions. Said he's willing to work with us on a new table. He did a booth table for one of my buddies that makes custom hats, and it's awesome. Oh, he's awesome. Hey, I got an idea. Get him those pallets and tell him to use that wood and make our freaking table. Oh, dude. That would be awesome. And burn our freaking logo right into the top. Burn it. Dude. Come on.

That would be awesome. He's going to want you to do spendy wood, a bunch of iron wood, and a bunch of stuff. Just say, no. I want pallet poplar.

Come on. Adam, when did you get all this artsy-fartsy stuff going, man? He's good at this stuff. I think he missed his calling in life. Well, we just talked about the booth. It's like sentimental. Chris said he had it at his house, and he was going to give it away. And we're like, no, that's going in the museum. But this is a repurpose. Hey, we're trying to be green here at Epic Outdoors. Trying to recycle. It's a vehicle. Anybody interested, it's on Instagram. The Peak Sneak. The underscore peak underscore sneak. Matt Messerly. Diamond Woodworks does phenomenal work. Anyway. Let's get a pallet table. I'm telling you. Be awesome. He's willing. He says he mostly barn wood. I do think we need to sand it down because both pallets are slivery. If we're going to be leaning and grabbing. Don't want anybody suing us.

And then you're going to have to perfectly fit some, you know, cup holders in the shape of a, you know, of a specific white can. A monster? Yeah. Yeah. Just a perfect little monster can. Just router out a little about half inch deep round parts in there. Just lay your can on the table. I'm telling you. This is. We're going somewhere here. Now, Jason, the other thing is. I'm done with this conversation. Like three or four times, you're talking about twist tops. Twist tops? Yeah, that's the can and a half. It's the big white. The big white. When 16 ounces doesn't do anything for you, the 24 has to come out. The twist top is amazing because it keeps the fizz and it's just. It does keep the fizz. There's something about. You can twist top it on and you can nurse it all day. Riding in your truck with an open truck in the road, bouncy road. I hate.

I carry it in my hand because my hand can like shock absorb better than in your cup thing and it doesn't lose the fizz. I hate a pop. I do too. A monster that loses its fizz. Adam, you know how many pops I go through a day? Oh, I know. And most of them go down. Yeah, because I want it cold and sharp. I want it cold and sharp. I'm here with you. And I mean, dude, you can buy a pop for less than the price of water. You can. From the city. Through your tap. That's right. I mean, it's stupid cheap. All right. Well, Jeff, how are you doing up there? Well, so you doing all right? Thawing out. Doing good, man. Glad to see it snowing. Yeah. I'm real glad. Well, we're glad down here too. I'll be glad to see you. Binon's coming down. Well, yeah. We're going to give you an epic hat and an epic shirt, boss. We need somebody to run the teal. And we'll let you be the mask enforcer for our booth.

Mask enforcer. You're going to be the mask cop. You're going to be the mask cop. Trust me, I would love to be the mask enforcer, which just means I get to sit around and BS with people. I will do that job. I will do that job. Hey, and naps. You know, with not being able to run truck cams in the fall, Jeff, you're going to be able to have a nap in the middle of the day. And we might as well start at the expo. Yeah. Yeah. Have a nap in the middle of the day. I can't believe it. I can't believe they actually got it through. But all right. It passed. Well, it barely passed. It was three to three vote. And they had to have a tiebreaker with the chairman. Anyway, Jeff, what else? Anything else going on? No. Just working away, watching it snow. All happy here. Getting ready for application season. Yeah. I'm sure you guys are getting bogged down. It's that time of year.

Wyoming Elk getting cranked up. Yeah, we're excited. All right, boss. Okay, sounds good. Thanks for answering. All right, yeah, bye. See you later. Bye-bye. There ain't much of a better brother-in-law than that out there. He's fun and opinionated and willing to say it. That's what I like. You've got four or five other brother-in-laws. You just hurt your feelings, right? No, I didn't. They're tough enough. They got skin four inches thick. They're good dudes, too. Way to cover the bases. Dude. Cover the bases real quick. There you go. Well, Bronson, I think that wraps it up. I don't know. Chris, you were talking about maybe throwing out a little shout-out. We did the expo. How awesome is that? We're going to be there in what? Basically six, five weeks? Five, six weeks? It's going to be awesome. Everybody, mid-February. Look up HuntExpo.com. Check it out. Bronson, going to talk about Hoyt.

Yeah. We've got a bunch of new bulls coming. Shout out to one of those. Yeah, we've got a bunch of new bulls coming. Chris, you're going to get one this year, I think? I don't know. Chris, you were on the list. I thought about it. What do you mean? Well, anyway, I thought you already put your order in. You signed up. I thought you did, but we've got to make sure we get a lefty. We need cash from Chris. We need cash from Chris. And it's a lefty bow. So appreciate Hoyt. We appreciate them stepping out with us. You know, the Vendom, the RX-5 bows, awesome. I'm sure they're going to have a booth there at the expo, too, if you want to stop by and see some of the bows. We love them. We've had a great Wyatt. Wyatt's probably the best spokesman they have, because he grabbed that thing, went on a bear hunt, then went on elk, hunted for like five minutes. Oh, what's crazy, went on a bear hunt,

and I think the guy that he was with and just handed it to him, and he shot a bear. Smokes like a Ben Crockett black bear with a bow, and then Wyatt hunts for like five minutes and kills a 370-plus bull in Nevada. And he doesn't want to say it, but it was a 90-yard hard shot. How about that? That's pretty good stuff. He knows what he's doing. Of course, he knew how to make the shot. It wasn't unethical at all. Great partners of ours here at Epic Outdoors. Check them out. Hoyt Archery, they'll be at the expo as well. Big supporters usually at the expo based here in Utah. Well, hey, since this was a trail cam podcast, how about stealth? We appreciate stealth and their support here at Epic Outdoors. We sell them if you need them, and you might need double to get the job done before the end of July. Everybody here in Utah, give us a holler. 435-263-0777. Go on Stealth Cam's website.

Bronson, we carry pretty much the best products. We've run, I've run, I don't know how many tests in my backyard. Yeah, your dogs triggered a lot of trail cams in your backyard. A lot of pictures. But hey, and you don't have to be from Utah. But Utah- We'll sell them anywhere. Anywhere, yeah. But, you know, it's kind of on people's mind right now. We've still got a bunch in stock. So, anyway. That's right. I appreciate it. Let's call it a day. Call it a week for podcast-wise. Let's get back to work. Yeah, no more boots down the hallway, Chris. Okay, I'll give you a few days. At Epic Outdoors, we help you reach your hunting dreams. Whether it's helping you to develop a long-term application strategy. Or finding the perfect outfitter for your next hunt. As a member of Epic Outdoors, you'll also receive the Epic Outdoors magazine.

And have access to the best hunting consultants in the industry. Online tools and more. To join Epic Outdoors, visit epicoutdoors.com. Or call 435-263-0777.