EP 237: Talking Archery with Jeremy Eldredge

There's the RX-7, which is 30 inches axle to axle, and the RX-7 Ultra, which is 34 inches axle to axle. We can actually tell our kids when we were born they only had recurse. We can actually say that. Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, John Peterson, Chris Peterson, coming at you from southern Utah. It's a little cloudy out there. We're supposed to get a little more storm. We've been getting a little storm here and there. Of course, it feels like it's very localized right here. What do you think, Bronson? Yeah, it's not widespread, but right where we're at, we'll take it. It's green up there. It's pretty green for not having any reservoirs with any water in it. It's pretty. I went up and headed up north up to Salt Lake this weekend, and it was pretty. And then I came home, and I thought I'd get cute and go out here to Nevada. And there wasn't much green out there. Really? No. Right here to the Utah border. And Bronson and John and Chris, we've been watching the radar.

You guys can jump in, but we've been watching that radar, and it feels like it hits the strip right along the state line going north to south. Even Vegas. And then, but it doesn't get like deeper into Nevada. Northern Nevada's been pretty good. And extreme southern, but the middle part, not as. Not so much. Did notice, I mean, and we got a pretty cool podcast coming at you here in regards to Hoyt. But hey, you know, kind of looked over some of these, some of these quotas, Bronson, are being finalized here in Utah and Nevada. And we looked at the proposals, especially like Nevada. There's like some unbelievable tag slashes. Some of them are like 90%. Yeah. Weren't they? Yeah, they are. Yeah. 90% reductions. Like just for an example, like Area 13, you know, rifle resident tags on the early rifle was like 300 last year. And I think they're cutting it to 45. Yeah. That's amazing.

So when you trickle down to maybe the late rifles and then the non-resident, what does the non-resident get out of that? You're talking one, two. Yeah. You know what I mean? With a couple exceptions in Nevada. Yeah. It's going to be tough to draw a tag this year. Very tough. Don't plan on it. There's like Area 14, 15, Area 10, Area 6. It looks like some tag increases. But that's the other 75, 80% of the state. Slash. Oh, yeah. We're talking deer here. And, you know, I did, you know, I've talked around a little bit and some people are saying, I'm a little late, you know? And it's tough. That's the one thing that's challenging with management is you're always trying to play catch up or trying to foresee it. But when you do that, it's, you know, sometimes it's socially not acceptable because the world doesn't see it that way either. Yeah. It's a little bit tough.

But anyway, so we're kind of excited. You get a wet year on, and especially when it goes from the opposite, taking these low tags and then you're seeing enough on the landscape to warrant a bump. That's when, and if you couple that with good weather, that's when you're going to see giants. But, man, I don't know. John, you know, you guys, we were talking earlier today in Bronson. We kind of were perusing some of our old publications. And it made me want to go back. Oh, we had some memory lane from, like, 2016. It was unbelievable. It was unbelievable. It feels like that was 25 years ago. Yeah. I don't know. Have we aged that bad in the last two or three years? I don't know. It feels so 20 years ago. It's been, like, seven or eight years. I do know one or two bad grinding drought years in a row is, like, dog years. That might be, like, 10 years in real life. It's true.

Because two grinders, I mean, brutal ones back to back, it might as well be. It feels like 10 years, doesn't it? Yeah, and when you kill something good and you celebrate it, you know, and you're like, and you celebrate it as if it's your last one, I'm almost wondering if I've seen my last one. I don't know. I'm just saying it's crazy how tough it is right now. Yeah, you wonder if it's ever going to rain again out there. It's so dry. Yeah. Parts of New Mexico feeling that way. Eastern Montana, they did get a storm out there this week, but they've been brutal. They have been. Yeah, same thing. You know, like you said, New Mexico, we're seeing. Bad problems. Yeah, it is. Especially central and southern. Terrible. Yeah. Nevada, they're in a tough way. I mean, they're already talking about working on, you know, manually filling some of the guzzlers. So, I don't know. What do you say?

Anyway, and we're going to see some of these drastic effects of, say, you know, drought in Nevada in regards to sheep, too. That's coming up. We've got some tag cuts here and there. We've had big hits to populations in Nevada. Lamb production. Lamb production. They're talking a 20% reduction since 2019. Yeah. That's not that long. Just these two drought years. A lot of lambs have died. Yeah. And adult sheep. Again, I've known people that, you know, get at the game and fish and management and whatnot. And what can we do? And the guy's like, pray for rain. And that's a kind of, you know, considered to be a cop out in regard. You can't manage that way. But honestly, it's not a bad idea. When Utah and Nevada, when we're the number 50 and 49th dry states out of how many? Oh, 50. Are we? Yeah. Nevada and Utah, the two dry states in the union. But for? Dryest. Period. Every year, year in year.

Oh, yeah. On average. Just annual precept for the two states. More than, worse than Arizona? Worse than New Mexico. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Look it up. All right. Well, anyway, kind of a little bit of, there's a lot going on. In fact, Bronson, we're working, John, Chris. Chris, right now, you're working on stories. That's right. I mean, right now. So, anyway, it's kind of fun. You know, this is the last of the heavy research magazines. Of course, we'll cover some points only in Arizona Bison, a few other things, Texas and whatnot coming up. But, you know, in the next whatever, three or four issues. But this is kind of the last of the heavies. So, anyway, how does it feel? Right down here to the last. It feels awesome. I mean, here in three or four days, we call it Independence Day. Well, for those that don't know, I mean, it's around the clock, you know, here at the office,

you know, during these couple months during spring. And we're pumping out magazines like crazy. If you're not a member, like, we're 150 pages every month. And it's around the clock. Yeah. And it's research-based. And it's stuff that you're always going down to the wire, getting it from the states, whether it be harvest data, their new regs, whatever. It's always very tight turnarounds. And when the June issue hits, it's always a nice – when it hits the streets and it's done, it's at the printer, it's always a nice feeling. Yeah. It means we're supposed to start scouting heavy. And start shooting our bows. How about that? Yeah. Sun's shining. The backyard target's not frozen anymore. I always get nervous the backyard target's like, doesn't it feel – like my kids are out there. Oh, I do. And I've got one of those – what do they call them, Bronson, the big boy targets?

Big Bubba, something we got back east that – they're awesome. But it feels like it's not big enough, and I swear it's – Four foot square. And my kids are out there – Hey, you know, there's people working in the yard back there. You know, so I always get nervous. But, hey, nobody's died yet. Your kids are pretty good, though. Yeah. If you put your kids up against my kids, you know, I'd be afraid of my kids. So – There's always a punched release at a wrong, grunting time when your bows – I mean, it only takes once. Crank up the poundage, would you? You know? Yeah. You never know. As a dad, you're cautiously optimistic, and you never let your guard down. It's always safer to take the block tower to get up the canyon. Anyway.

But it is. It's getting to that time. And speaking of bows, got a great guest, one of our great partners of ours here at Epic Outdoors, Hoyt Archery, based here in Utah. Obviously, their name is well-renowned and well-known in the archery industry over the decades. And we've got a treat today. We're going to give Jeremy Eldridge, their chief of marketing, a call, visit with him about what's new at Hoyt, what's going on, and just build a little bit of excitement for the spring-summer shooting and fall hunting season. Yeah, I'm excited for this one. Let's give him a holler.

Good morning. This is Jeremy. Jeremy, Jason Carter and the Epic Crew here. How are you? Hey, I'm great. How are you doing, Jason? We're doing good. I've got Adam Bronson, John Peterson, Chris Peterson here. Just wanted to kind of get with you there. Hoyt, what do you guys got going on today? Oh, man. Every day is an adventure. We've got a million things going on. Well, that's good. Well, we'll have to get to some of those things here in a minute. But, yeah, I want to appreciate you making some time for us today to talk with us about, obviously, your company and whatnot. And we'll get into maybe some hunting a little bit later, too. But before we maybe dive into that, let us introduce yourself a little bit, Jeremy. This is Jeremy Eldridge, the Chief of Marketing. I believe that's your title, unless there's a little bit more to it.

Why don't you correct me if I'm wrong and tell us maybe how long you've been with the company and what roles you've progressed throughout the years in, perhaps. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, yeah, I'm the Director of Marketing. And this summer I will have been here 18 years. Jeez. You've got two years to retirement. Yeah, I wish. That's what Adam and I look at each other. I don't know. We've been in the industry over 20 years. And I'm like, hey, I thought we were supposed to be retired by now. That's for cops and firefighters.

I know. Yeah. No, I've got a while before that happens. What have you done over the 18 years? Have you been in marketing most of that time or other stuff? I've been in marketing most of that time. I actually started in supply chain, funny enough. I had just finished school. And I've been working in a job in supply chain for 10 years and working on my degree at the same time in business management. And that job was – that company got bought and was relocating to New Mexico. And I had a young family and I wasn't interested in relocating. So I started looking for a job. And, man, you know, 18 years ago you looked for a job in the newspaper. That sounds so funny today. Oh, yeah. I remember looking – Yeah. I remember that. I found a fish cannery job in the newspaper back in the day. Yeah. My kids are all tweeting and texting and DMing. I have no idea how they're fighting jobs. I know, yeah.

So there I am looking through the WAN ads and I see the Hoyt logo, like right in the middle of the page. I'm like, no way, because I was already, you know, a big-time bow hunter and loved target archery. I mean, I was an archery fanatic even back then. And so I saw the Hoyt logo, my eye went straight to it. And they were looking for a job for a buyer in their supply chain department. And that had been what I had been doing. And I'd had a bunch of classes on it during my degree. And I was like, dude, I am – this is my job, you know. And so it was funny. I didn't even trust the mailman. I printed off my resume and I drove down to Hoyt and I walked in the front door and handed it to the girl at the front desk, you know, because I wasn't – this was my dream job to work at Hoyt, man. I'm not taking any chances. And they called me back about a week later.

And it was funny because I was on a family trip in San Diego and I was driving on the freeway. They called and I answered and they said, you know, they said, we're hoping you could come in for an interview tomorrow. And I wanted that job so bad. I'm like, I probably can, but I need to see if I can get a flight. And they were really confused. Like, wait, we thought you lived in the Salt Lake Valley. And I'm like, well, I do, but I'm on a trip in San Diego. And they're like, well, we can just wait until next week and schedule the interview next week when you get back. And I said, well, are you sure? And they said, yeah, it's no problem. I said, okay, but don't hire anybody before you interview me. Oh, man. That's your first mistake. They knew they could get you for nothing. They knew they could get you for nothing. Exactly. Yeah. They offered me a job for $5 an hour and I took it.

So, you know. Yeah. So that's how it all happened. I came in, interviewed and it was a great fit for me and a great fit for them. And, and I, so I worked in supply chain and purchasing for about a year and a half. And then the director of marketing at the time, he, he tried to get me to come to marketing and work. And I'm like, man, I don't even know what you guys do in marketing. It just looks like you read magazine and watch videos all day. Like, I don't know if I was, you know, I want to stay busy. You wanted to be, you wanted to be hired to shoot stuff.

Yeah, exactly. So anyway, I finally, you know, I finally gave in. He's like, I promise you, you will never have a slow day in marketing. You will be, you'll have more work than you know what to do with. Cause you know, and, and anyway, I came to marketing and here I am still, you know, eight, you know, another 15, 16 years after that, but 18 years total at Hoyt. And, uh, I've loved it. You know, I love, I love bow hunting. I love the outdoors. And so to be able to work and you guys know this, to be able to work in your passion, it's, you know, it's way better than a nine to five, even though it is, it is busy and it's, it is challenging. And, and I think because we all love it so much, I think, I don't know, I don't want to say we get taken advantage of, but I think we're willing to put up with more and we're willing to work harder than if it was a job we didn't care about.

You know, I just think when I talk to other friends in the industry, it kind of, we all kind of feel like that. Yeah. We're passionate about it. So we work harder and our companies get more out of us than they would otherwise. And so I think these guys take advantage of me. Yeah. 40 hour a week is unheard of. I don't know.

No pity. There's no pity part of it. It's true though. Even though when you're in the hunting industry, it's not just, you know, we used to tease. It's not just, you know, about killing stuff, wetting a line and being out in the field. Getting paid to hunt fish every day. Yeah. It's not. It's a little bit different than that. It's a little different, but it's still, it's still part of your passion because you're dealing with stuff you like to deal with. So. Yep. Yep. For sure. Well, great. Yeah. So. Well, so yeah, I guess fast forward, you became, I don't know how long you've been the chief marketing officer, chief of marketing in that role. Yeah. So I, about two years ago, my boss, he left and that role became open. And so I became the director of marketing about two years ago. Before that, other roles I had in marketing, I had a role, spend a lot of the time as marketing manager.

I spent some time as pro staff manager. I spent some time as a kind of in a business development role. We're just looking, looking for new partners to license products with. And so I've done a little bit, you know, a bunch of different stuff, a lot of event management through the trade shows and other shows we do. So, man, I've worn a lot of hats. And I think that kind of goes back to what I was saying. Like, you know, we're passionate about it. We're willing to do it. We're willing to put more on our plate and more on our plate. Because we just love the company. We love the brand and the lifestyle. And so I've had a lot of opportunities to do a bunch of different things while I've been here. Well, and you've seen the company change a lot. Like, I can only, I mean, I know what we've changed and seen our portion of the hunting industry change over the years.

And I can only imagine, you know, 18 years ago, you know, what the inner workings of Hoyt look like versus now. It has been monumentally different. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah, yeah. It's changed in, you know, almost every aspect of the business. You know, back then in marketing, it was, you know, it was print ads and television. And now that's the least of our business, you know, least of what we're doing. And then out in the factory, you know, we've got robots everywhere. And 18 years ago, that was, we didn't have a single robot. You do? You've got robots and cool stuff like that? Yeah, we've got a lot of robotics back there, which is great because we've been able to move people to do different things. And especially today with the labor market, you know, I mean, it's just anything you can have a robot do is helpful. And we haven't had to lay off because of that.

We've just moved people into different positions and teaching them how to run robots and stuff. Yeah, exactly. The limb development department. You're not having to tweak people's eyes. Spray WD-40. Breaking limbs.

Got robots to deal with that. Yeah, we have, we actually do in our, in our limb department, we have robots that test the deflection of every limb. So, you know, when we, when we make our limbs and they come out of the press and then, and all the rest of the work gets done to them. The last thing we do is put them in a machine and it flexes the limb and that tells us the resistance rating, you know? And so, and we do that to every single limb and we have, we don't have any tolerances built in. So meaning if we're looking for a number that's say 156 deflections, that doesn't really mean anything to anybody, but maybe for, you know, a Venom Pro 70 29 bow, it would need 156 deflection limb to make, to get 70 pounds. And so it puts, put it in the machine, it flexes it down and, and if it hits 156 deflections, then it's good to go.

But if it's a little bit heavy, then we would have to take those limbs off, put them on the buffing wheel a little bit, put them back in, measure them again. And, and so for ever and ever, we had like six to eight employees doing that all day long. And now we have six robots to do it all day long and all night long. So, you know, that's just one major advantage. Yeah. Wow. So you're got a, basically that's kind of like custom. I mean, you're taking them off, buffing them, putting them back. I mean, that feels very custom to me. Yeah. It's a, it's a lot of extra work, but you know, and when we, when we take competitors' bows apart, we can see that they actually have a range, you know, that their deflections aren't exact. They're within a certain number of deflections and they're good to go. But we, we want to put the extra work in to make sure they're all exact.

The two bows, you know, if, if the customer gets, it's especially true with our pro staff where they're traveling the world, shooting tournaments and they have multiple bows. We want them all to be the same and act the same and shoot the same and tune the same. And so one of the best ways to do that is make sure all the limb deflections exactly the same every time. So, you know, a little extra work, but we think the finished product is, is better that way. Yeah. It seems Hoyt, you know, has always been kind of a leader in that, you know, realm. Innovation, you're always looking to improve. It's kind of, I mean, we've, we've grown up in Utah and obviously Hoyt's been a Utah based company, I believe, at least as long as I can remember. So maybe there's different, but you know, that's kind of the reputation you guys have.

And it feels like in the hunting world, as far as equipment, archery, but we're talking bows. Well, you can, you can lump arrows and everything else, but bows and all that, man, if you blink two, three years, five, especially, man, it's like come so far in whatever advancements there are, I don't know if there's another piece of equipment that we hunt with regularly other than bows that change. We feel like we need a new bow every single year. I mean, and I've heard that people don't even take the RX-5 out of the box. They sell it on the used market and grab an RX-7. I mean, and I don't know. And I'm like, how can it get any better every single year? And I got the RX-5 last year. And I'm not changing. And I don't think, yeah, I don't know how I can shoot better, but, but maybe you can. And I don't know. So talk us through, I guess that, you know, how that happens.

It feels like that archery, the bow industry, it evolves so fast compared to rifles or even optics or other things that just the evolution, you know, carbons probably made a big, you know, change in some of that too, but just talk a little bit about that and then maybe start talking about, you know, kind of what's new at Hoyt. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it is peculiar in the archery market how that seems to be true. Like every year there has, you know, we've got to come out with new bows. And I think, I think it speaks to a couple of things. One, bow hunters, I think are, I don't know. I think I'm a bow hunter, so maybe I feel this way, but I think bow hunters generally, generally speaking are a little more diehard than hunters in general. Whoa. I know. Okay, here we go. I think part of it. And I say generally.

Well, and I think part of it is they feel like they need every advantage they can possibly have and they're willing to purchase that advantage. You know what I mean? Meaning they are, it's worth it to them to make sure that they can capitalize on the opportunity, the up close encounters. Yeah, a lot more of all the little things add up to make failures in archery hunting versus rifle hunting. Oh, I'm six, eight inches off at 800 yards of the rifle, I still kill the deer. I mean, you're dealing with so many variables and you need to tighten those, going back to your tolerance stuff. You've got to tighten all that, whether it be from, you know, shooting your bow to your components. The variables that you can control as much as you can. Yeah, and it's so many things from bow to rest to sight to release to form to shooting to arrows to broadhead to broadhead and filter.

I mean, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, man, the combinations of gear. Jeremy, we're trying to pull you out of the hole you dug yourself in here. Yeah, no, I can hear you. I can hear you. But you're right. People jump. What you're saying is right, though. I mean, the extra challenge maybe that sometimes comes along with bow hunting, I think keeps bow hunters engaged a little bit more throughout the year and looking for that next piece of equipment to give them that next edge. I don't know. I think that's part of the reason why we have a new bow every year because customers are looking for a new bow every year. Well, just imagine, so you've got the, let's just call it a Remington 700, just for an example, right? They made them for how many years? You knew what you were getting, and it was, imagine if you did that as a bow company.

Yeah, you know, we still make the certain bow that we did in year 2000, which I had my bow. I loved it. I loved it. I can't remember. It was a carbon whatever. I can't remember exactly what it was. But anyway, I loved it and whatnot. But I mean, imagine if, as a bow company, if you just had that old standard and you never improved upon it. Yeah, that doesn't happen in our true world. You'd be out of business. Yeah. You know what I mean? We expect that. Yeah. People expect that. The industry expects new and better and new and better, and they expect to upgrade regularly. Yeah. And kind of interesting. And I think, too, I mean, if you look at the history, you know, compound bows are relatively new compared to firearms. You know, there wasn't even a compound bow invented until the 1970s, and by then, you know, firearms were well established. They were amazing.

And the aluminum arrows, they were amazing, too. Yeah. Yeah. When you bend them, you just straighten them. Over your knee. Over your knee. Yeah, we had no problems back then. Yeah. So I think because it is, you know, so much newer, there were just so many, I mean, it was just easier to improve year after year for so long. Yeah. If you think about it, like... And it's getting harder, definitely getting harder. These, you know, the past few years, I don't know how our engineers keep improving, but, you know, the improvements are, I don't know, I don't want to say they're smaller, but it used to be every year the bow was, like, significantly new and different and faster and smoother or whatever, and now the changes are a little bit smaller. Each year, because I think, you know, all bow companies, I think we're all just reaching. Figuring it out. Yeah.

Yeah, we're getting to the, you know, the bows haven't gained a lot of speed in the last few years. Speed's kind of where it's at. So now, you know, for us, for example, we're focusing on other things. We're focusing on smooth. We're focusing on silent bows, making our bows quieter. And then we're featuring on, we're focusing on the whole system of the bow, you know, the accessory system, trying to make, instead of make a bow and then also here's some accessories and they bolt on how they bolt on. We're rethinking that, too. And we're changing how we attach accessories to a bow to make the bow overall balance better, make the bow lighter. And so, and just more, you know, easier to tune. So we're just, I don't know, there's always something to improve, but it's definitely a challenge year after year to come out with improvements on the bows. And that's the engineer's job.

It's just my job to sell it, I guess. Well, we were looking at our own product, you know, this morning and just kind of like, can't believe how far we've come and whatnot in our own business. And I can only imagine you guys looking back at the bows you had 10, 15, 20 years ago and how far you've come and the difference and changes and whatnot. Probably shocking that those old bows even killed anything. You know what I mean? And so. I know, yeah. At the time, though, they were the RX-7s at the time. I mean, it was, you didn't think it could get any better. It's like, whoa, I don't know what we're going to do next year because there's not going to be a bow that can ever compete with this bow. Right. Yeah. I've kept a couple bows over the years that were like some of my favorites, you know, like the Alpha Max. I kept my Alpha Max forever. I'm like, I'm never getting rid of this thing.

And then just a couple of years ago, I pulled it out and I was like, I'm going to shoot this thing. I loved this bow so much. And I went to shoot it and I was like, what did I love about this bow? Like, it's not even, not even in the same, you know, category as the bows today. Like, but back then it was like the best bow I'd ever shot, you know? Oh, yeah. So. Yeah. Well, that's true. And talked maybe as we get into, you know, yeah. When you compress the modern day archery world into 40 years, because that's roughly 40, 50 years what we're talking about versus, yeah, firearms, however many hundred years. It's already been that long. Can you believe it? He was talking 1970s. It didn't feel like it was 50 years ago. Well, we're old. That was 50 freaking years ago. We were born in the 70s. Yes. We were. Oh. So. Wow. So, yeah. That, yeah. We're. Dang. But, yeah. So we. Grandpa Adam. Yeah.

We can actually tell our kids we were. We. When we were born, they only had recurves. We can actually say that. Jeez. Can you believe it? No. 2022. All right. Well, keep going wherever you were headed with that. Well, I'm just talking about, yeah, this. This compression of all this advancement is in a really in our lifetime. Literally. Not. You know, you can't say that like we talked about in the optics or the firearms world. Because, you know, those, although way primitive in, say, the 1800s, early 1900s, and they've made huge advancements in the last 20, 30 years, it's still, modern day compound archery is literally a 40 year, 45 year industry. Good point. Where does that bring us to today? I mean, your new releases for this year in terms of bows or anything else you want to talk about. Let's put it on the table, what you launched this year or what's, you know.

Why is everybody talking about the RX-7? Why do I have to have it? I feel like I have to have it. Yeah. Or the Venom. Like, why? Yeah. Where are we at? Yeah. Good. So, yeah, this year, so we launched two new premier hunting bows, the RX-7. And there's actually two bows in the RX-7 series. There's the RX-7, which is 30 inches axle to axle, and the RX-7 Ultra, which is 34 inches axle to axle. And then there's the Ventum Pro series, and there's a Ventum Pro at 30 inches, and a Ventum Pro 33 at 33 inches axle to axle. So, the different axle to axle just for, you know, personal preference and draw length range. But, you know, within the same series, all the same components on the bow and the same carbon riser. But the RX-7 this year got a couple really big upgrades. We started building the carbon bows back, I think, 2010 with the carbon matrix and then the carbon element after that.

And then, you know, and from that time until this year, the bows have always been a carbon riser. But then on the very ends of the riser, we had an aluminum head bonded to the carbon. And then that aluminum head is how we connected the pockets and connected the limbs in the pocket and finished building the bow. So, this year with RX-7, we got rid of those aluminum heads. And so, now everything is internal in the carbon frame. And so, that lightened the bow up quite a bit. The bow is significantly lighter than in the past years. And then it's also just an all-new shape and process for building the carbon riser than we've had. In the past, we've had the round carbon tubes. And if you've seen the RX-7, it looks, you know, quite a bit different. The round tubes are kind of gone. It has a different shape to it.

So, a lot of different or new changes on the carbon series this year on our Redworks bows. So, the RX-7 is why you've been hearing so much about it. It's just, I don't know, it just shoots so well. Good marketing. Yeah. All the marketing, yeah. Thank you.

But it's a great shooting bow. I mean, it's our best shooting carbon bow ever. And I know we say that every year. And I guess that's why we improve it every year. So, we can keep saying that. But the new cam system, the HBX Pro cams, last year we went to the HBX cams for the first time in a long, like we've had cam and a half since 2003. Every bow we've made since 2003 has had some version of a cam and a half system. And that was an amazing cam system for us. So, to depart from the cam and a half system to this new HBX system was like earth shattering for us. I mean, our customers couldn't believe we didn't have a cam and a half system. But once they shot this bow, they understood why we made the change. I mean, the cam system is so smooth, so quiet. Yeah. Can you explain what the cam, just for those out there that don't know, can you explain

the cam and a half, what that meant, what it was? Versus HBX. Yeah. So, cam and a half back in 2003 bows were either a single cam or a two cam. And each came with their challenges. Two cams, you are always trying to keep your cams in time. Sink. By twisting cables and syncing cams up. But when we switched to a cam and a half system, you know, that kind of took care of that problem. And so, that was a major breakthrough at the time. And that cam system was easy to tune. And our tournament shooters won piles of tournaments with that cam system was just very accurate. You could really get into the nitty gritty of tuning that bow and tuning it how you liked to shoot it. So, a lot of advantages to that system. And then, our engineers a couple years, you know, a few years back really started playing with this HBX system, which isn't necessarily new to the industry.

It's a binary cam system and other bows have had it in the past. But we, I don't know, we just put a lot of time into perfecting it for our bows. This system, you know, it had a lot of time put into it by engineers. A lot of testing and a lot of shooting and a lot of refining until they finally got to what they were happy with. And the first time I shot it, I remember I just, it was like zero hand shock, so smooth the drawback. And another big advantage is just really easy to tune. The cam and a half system was easy to tune, but there was also, you know, there was some intricacies there and some stuff that you had to, I don't know, had to be aware of to really get it fine-tuned. But with the HBX system, it's a little bit, it's more user-friendly, I guess, is the way to say it. Well, so you know, you're also... Oh, go ahead. Keep going.

I was going to say, another thing too, in the past, with the cam and a half system, we had multiple sizes of cams. So for us, you know, for a certain draw length range, we'd have the number one cam. And then for a next draw length range, we'd have the number two cam. And the next draw length range, we'd have the number three cam. And within each of those cams, it would adjust a couple inches. One of the biggest advantages moving to this HBX system is we have one cam now that fits all draw ranges. There are two different modules. Because one thing we really pride ourselves on is making sure every archer, no matter their draw length and draw range, the bow's going to perform optimal for them. Meaning, you know, we could post our speeds at a 29 inch. Everyone posts their speeds at a 30 inch. You know, when you look at someone's speed ratings, that's normally that's 70 pounds, 30 inches.

So we could build our bows to be the fastest at 70, 30. But then if you're a 27 inch draw, you know, you maybe you dropped off a ton of speed because just the way the cams work. So we've always built multiple cam sizes so that in your draw length range, that cam was optimized for you. And then as you moved to a little bit longer draw length range, that cam was optimized for you. And then all the way up, you know, to the longest draw. And that was important to us that our bows were, you know, performing an optimum in any draw length. So when we moved to this cam system and had one cam, you know, we could have made that cam have one module and it fit everybody. And it would have worked really good at 29 and 30 inches. But then when you got to 27 inches and 26 inches, it would have been really slow. So we actually have two different modules on this cam to do the same thing we used to do

with multiple cams, which is to make sure in your draw length, you're getting the best speed that you can get. And so, so from a production standpoint, it's, this is a better cam for us because we're now making one cam instead of three. And then from a dealer, if you think about our dealers trying to inventory bows, like, man, which, you know, which cam should I bring in and how many of each cam? And now they just bring in one cam, one bow with one cam and have some modules there to put the module on. Yep. So, but yeah, but I mean, all of that's a good reason to change. But when you shoot the bow, you'll see the real reason we changed this cam system. It's so smooth and quiet. So. Well, it's like we say, that's what we hear every single year. And I just, but, but the reviews, I mean, you can do a web search or whatever. It's unbelievable.

We've had people, personal friends, you know, that are, you know, swapping over and Adam where Adam and I were thinking that with our RX5s, we were going to be happy for 20 years. No problem. Right, Bronson? Yeah. Yeah, I was. Now I feel like I'm left in the dust.

So anyway. I told myself, I don't need to upgrade this year. I got everything last year and now I'm feeling like, you know, I've got to recur. And so there's a, yeah. So there's a little bit of a, it feels like, I don't want to call it a shortage, but maybe it's the high demand or whatever. How's the delivery times on this, this new model and, and whatnot. You know, obviously, I mean, there's going to be high demand with every new product and every new line, but it feels maybe different this year. I don't know. Can you address that a little bit? Talk about, yeah. Supply chain stuff as well. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're, we're dealing with the same supply chain issues that everybody's dealing with from, you know, from the truck manufacturers, Chevy Ford. I mean, everyone knows the waiting times on a new truck and now you go to the lot and they're

all empty, but you know, so we're dealing with that too. We've got supply chain issues. So they're dealing with a computer chip problem and maybe you guys are going to have computer chip problems someday. At some point we might.

Yeah. Right now we're dealing with the carbon issue. So our RX sevens, you know, we're building some every day, but we're not building near as many as we'd like. So the RX seven, it does have a little bit of a long lead time. And the RX seven ultra actually has a longer lead time than that. The Ventum pro, which is our aluminum bow. This is, you know, our premier aluminum bow. And it's, it's also, I mean, I didn't talk about it yet, but it's, it's the best aluminum bow we've ever made. And it shoots every bit as well as the carbon. You just, it's a little bit heavier and, and you don't have the carbon. And so that's the main difference has the same, same cams on it, the same limbs, the same geometry, everything's the same, except rises, the risers of one's carbon, one's aluminum. So the Venom pros, luckily right now we've got a good supply of aluminum.

That has been, you know, hit and miss. I mean, just the way things are in today's world, but right now we've got a great supply and we're building Venom pros and filling orders immediately. So that one doesn't have much lead time. Um, the Torrex, which is our mid price bow, you know, not everybody is ready to spend, you know, 12, 13, 1400 bucks on a bow. And so we have a Torrex, which is our mid price bow that comes in around $700 and that bow we're delivering really well right now. So a lot of our bows were delivering really well, but the carbon bow, um, we do have some issues in supply chain with carbon. So that one has a little bit longer lead time. So, um, yeah, any of you out there thinking about getting one, you should definitely get in and get it ordered now so that you can have it before hunting season.

Well, we're just looking at some of these on, on your, on your website and it feels like, you know, the weights aren't, aren't terribly different, although a little bit of weight makes a lot of difference. Um, but even the Torrex, I mean, it looks, you know, solid, uh, fairly fast and, and whatnot. Maybe can you, can you go through the difference of the, you know, maybe a Torrex versus Venom, uh, on that? Yeah. Yeah. So the Venom Pro, like I mentioned, it's, you know, right in line with our carbon bows. It's a machined aluminum. And so it has really tight tolerances and, and, um, there's no, you know, issues with things coming out of whack on that bow. It's a, it's just, it's top of the line bow. If we didn't have carbon, this would be our top of the line bow. Um, I kind of compare it a lot to like, this is our Corvette, but we also have a Ferrari, which is the aluminum bow.

And there aren't too many people who would feel bad about owning and driving a Corvette. I could think any of us would be pumped to do that. And that's our Venom Pro. I mean, that is, if you look at our competition, this is the bow that competes with our competition. They're all machined aluminum bows and our Venom Pro is the same. So it's in class. And so we've heard that from, we've heard that from, from people within Hoyt is don't, don't be afraid to, to, to go with the Venom and just wondering, is there, is there a tangible difference that we, you know, can wrap our heads around of aluminum versus carbon? Yeah. What are the, I mean, for most of the listeners, tell them about what, why do people want to wait, even though it's harder to get and longer lead times and all that, what do they want? What do you want carbon? And then maybe why somebody prefers aluminum? Yeah. Yeah.

Good question. So, um, I, myself, I actually shot the Venom Pro last or the Venom last year. I hunted with the Venom 33 all year and I loved it. Um, and I'd shot carbon every year until then. And so just the way that bow felt, the way it shot, I was like, man, I'm, yeah, it's not carbon, but I don't care. I'm hunting with it this year. And a lot of people did that. We had our Venom bow last year did really well. And the Venom Pro this year is doing really well. Um, but some of the main differences is like I mentioned, a little bit difference in weight. Um, there's a pretty big difference if you hunt late season when it's really cold, the carbon is warm to the touch. Like it's so hard to explain that, but when you have an aluminum bow and it's cold, if you've bow hunted with a cold, in the cold weather, aluminum bow, you know that that aluminum just gets so frigid.

Then you got, if you're not using a glove, then your hand just gets like so cold, so quick holding your bow. And so like a leather seat versus cloth in your truck. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, it's, it's just so cold on your hand, that aluminum. So you either need to be prepared to shoot with the gloves. So you need to practice with the gloves so that your impact point, you know, you know where it's at, um, more with the carbon bow. It just does not, it doesn't get the cold, um, like aluminum. Um, and I've, I've, I hunted Illinois a few years ago, late season, and it was, um, it was below zero. And I went out just in the morning to take a couple of practice shots before I went out and I didn't have to have a glove on with my carbon bow. It was, it was fine for, you know, five or six shots, but with an aluminum bow, it would

have been, it would have been like holding an ice cube and it's just hard to, hard to shoot well like that and hard to be comfortable. So that's, that's probably another big difference. If you hunt late season, whether it's in a tree stand or, or hunting late season mule ease or something, you, you know, you will appreciate that carbon in cold weather. It's, it's a difference maker. So those are, you know, two of the biggest differences. Um, and then carbon is just, I don't know. It just, when you shoot it, it just feels and sounds different and, and it's just a, just a cool bow to shoot. Um, and then, like I said, this past two years, the venom has been like selling really good for us. And then there's, there's one other thing to consider and that's what your draw length is and where you would fall in our module system. Um, and let me explain that a little bit.

So the carbon RX seven, it comes in a 30 inch and a 34 inch axle to axle. And the venom pro comes in a 30 inch and a 33 inch axle to axle. So the difference there is a 33 inch axle to axle versus a 34 inch axle to axle on the longer bows of the two models. And so on a venom 33, you're going to be at the top end of the number two module at 29 inch draw length. Well, 29 inch draw, 29 inch draw length is the most popular draw length. So you're, that's the most optimum position to shoot that bow. Any of these bows is the venom 33 at 29 inches. You're going to get the most speed and efficiency out of that bow, out of any of the other combinations. And so a lot of guys have learned that, figured that out. And they're ordering themselves a venom 33 because they're a 29 inch draw. And it's the fastest combination that we have. So there's that reason too.

You know, there's those, those, those kinds of reasons to consider as well. And then other than that, you know, just choose the bow that you like. If you like a shorter bow, get one of the thirties. If you like a longer bow, get the 33 or the ultra. It's all kind of personal preference. Can you talk just in layman's terms on, you know, a guy can shoot either or, right? Guys can shoot either or. So like, why would you choose a longer axle, axle versus shorter? Yeah. For me, for example, I'm, yeah, a lot of it, like I'm 6'1". And so the string angle really comes into effect for a tall guy. Like if you're shooting a 30 inch bow, the string angle is really steep. And so that puts the peep sight a little bit further away from your eye. And so if you, then if you get a longer bow, then the peep, the string angle isn't as steep and it gets the peep sight closer to your eye.

So that's one thing to consider. Stability is another thing. If you, I don't know, if you like shooting long distance, whether maybe you do a lot of 3D shooting or you just like practicing a long distance or you're hunting out west where sometimes a follow-up shot might require a long distance shot. The longer axle-to-axle bows are generally believed to be a little more stable and a little more forgiving. And then if you hunt ground blinds or if you hunt tree stands and somewhere where you're in tight quarters, you probably want a 30 inch bow, a little bit more compact. And then also if you're a 27 or 26 or 27 or 27 and a half inch, if you have a little bit shorter draw length, you would want a shorter bow because they're going to give you more efficiency in your draw length. So a few things to consider there. Yeah.

So for those 30 to 30 and a half inch trial length dudes, you're pretty much stuck to a 33, 34 inch bow. Yeah. Unless you're in a ground blind or something and you're going to shoot short distances anyway. You don't need forgiveness or, you know, then. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's a few of the differences there. And then the other bow you asked me to mention a little bit was the Torx. And I kind of consider that like our Camaro. Like the Venom Pro is our Corvette. The Torx is our Camaro. I mean, I would still love to drive a Camaro, you know, and I would still love to shoot the Torx. It just, there's a budget. Everyone has a budget and you should buy the best bow you can get with your budget. And if, you know, if that's a Torx, you are not going to feel bad about shooting that bow. It's an awesome bow.

We don't, you know, every one of our bows has to pass our same testing standards, which are really brutal testing standards. We build, when our engineers design a bow, they build the first one and they put it on our dry fire machine. So they build the bow to 80 pounds of draw weight and 30 inches of draw length. And they put it on our dry fire machine and it has to be dry fired 1,500 times. Come on. Without. Gosh. Without any damage to the riser. Why do you guys look at us cross-eyed when we do it once?

Yeah. So it's a really brutal testing standard. I'm serious. Why? It has to go on our cycle machine and get cycled a million times. And the cycle is just to draw it, let it up, draw it, let it up. So a million cycles and 1,500 dry fires. And if anything on that riser cracks, bends, breaks, then it doesn't pass. Our engineers have to go back, fix that area, strengthen it, and then make a new one and do the test again. And so I just explained that to make you understand that whether you're getting the Torex, the Venom Pro, the Carbon Bow, it doesn't matter which Hoyt Bow you buy, it has to have passed our 1,500 dry fire test and our cycle test. So the limbs, everything is tested for 1,500 dry fires. So the riser only is tested and has to pass 1,500 dry fires. Okay. Our limbs have to pass 1,000 dry fires. Okay. But our limbs, yeah, only 1,000, right? Our limbs will usually.

I just still want to go back to this question you blew right by. Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was, like, really bad when a guy does that. You know, it's not good. I mean, you don't want to dry fire your bow.

And believe me, when we're dry firing a bow, it's loud and it shakes the whole room. And we've got safety, you know, plexiglass in front of it in case parts do fly off. Because that's why you don't, you obviously don't want to dry fire your bow. It's going to, it can derail your bow. It could bend a cam. It can bend an axle. It can throw your peep sight out of the bow and hit you or somebody and injure them. It's not healthy. It's just not healthy. It's not healthy. Every time one accidentally gets dry fired, I'm just expecting somebody to have a big laceration somewhere or a broken arm or something. I don't know. Yeah. It doesn't sound good. It doesn't feel good. All that. Right. Yeah. And if it ever happens, you do want to probably take it into your dealer and have them look over it. I can't believe that. That's pretty impressive, honestly. Pretty impressive. Yeah.

So we do it for a few reasons. One, we want our bows to be bulletproof when you're out on a hunt. I mean, we're all bow hunters. We get it. It's our passion. And if you've got, whether it's a tag of a lifetime or whether it's an over-the-counter tag, it really doesn't matter. You're just, it's important to you. I mean, it's a hunt. It's your chance to get outdoors and get away from everything and, you know, try to fill your tag. And so we want our bows to be bulletproof. We are tough on them as anybody. And so we design them to withstand, you know, a lot of tough conditions in the field. And then safety reasons. Man, we don't want anyone to ever get hurt with one of our products. And so we, you know, we have these testing standards that are really, I don't know, they're just, I don't think anyone in the industry can match our testing standards.

And so we kind of like to hang our hat on that. Well, pretty awesome. What, so other than these, I guess, bows, is there anything else that this year, whether it be accessories-wise or things like that, that you guys, you know, knew or things that came out like that that people might be unaware of? Or maybe they have a white bow that's, you know, a couple years old, but maybe some new accessories. So, you know, we've talked about that. We're always looking for a little bit of advantage or something new. What do you got in that department? Yeah. So I touched earlier on about, you know, for a long time we could chase speed and performance in the bows because it was, you know, there was a lot of ground to be gained there. And so, but in the past few years we've kind of peaked out on speed and performance. And so now we're looking at other ways to make the bows, you know, better.

And one of the things we're looking at is our accessory system. So last year we came out with our inline accessory system, which was trying to get all the accessories in line with your bow instead of hanging off the side of your bow. So a few years ago we partnered with QAD, came out with the integrated rest system, and now our arrow, we have an arrow that fits right on the back of the riser instead of being bolted on the side of the riser. And then last year we came out with our Picatinny sight mount, which moves the sight to the front of their bow instead of being mounted on the side of the bow.

So right there we just got rid of two accessories off the side of the bow that used to add weight on the side of the bow, which then you would either have to deal with the bow wanting to cant or lean that way, or you'd have to add extra stabilizer weight on the other side of the bow to get it balanced. And so by moving those two accessories in line with the bow, now they're not on the side of the bow anymore, which now lets us even get our quiver closer to the bow to balance better and be more in line with the bow. And then we also moved our stabilizer location from the traditional location that's been forever and ever, which is right under the grip. We moved it down to the bottom pocket. So that moves it lower and farther forward on the bow. And so now you can run, we include with the bow a small one and a half to two inch stabilizer. And that's all you need now.

You don't have to go buy a six, eight or 10 inch stabilizer and add to your bow because that little two inch stabilizer being lower on the bow lowers the center of gravity and being further out on the bow moves it out in front where you used to try to get your six or eight or 10 inch stabilizer. So we've done all of this to make the bow more in line, more streamlined, balanced better with overall less weight. Because now the front stabilizer is two inches instead of eight or 10 inches. So that's lighter. We moved all the accessories in line with the bow. So now you run a sidebar. You don't have to run as long of one or as much weight on it to counteract the weight of your accessories. So now your overall hunting rig just got lighter, more streamlined, and balances just as well, if not better, than when you used to load it up with stabilizers.

So all those accessories now have been designed for that system are carbon supply quivers, picatinny sights, you know, and the integrate rest. And then another new accessory we come out with this year is the ghost sticks, which is a bow pod that's meant to be left on your bow while you're hunting. And I hunted with the ghost sticks last year on my elk hunt. And guys, I'm telling you, this was the coolest thing I've put on my bow in forever. It's, you wouldn't, you know, think about how many times when you're hunting, how many times you stop for whatever, right? To glass, to call, to get a drink, just to rest your legs, to put something in your pack, put it away, take your jacket off and put it away in your pack. I mean, we're always, when we're on the, you know, hunting, we're always stopping for whatever reason.

And in the past, you'd either have to just keep holding your bow or lay it down in the dirt. And with the ghost sticks, you just set the bow down and it stands straight up right in front of you. Yeah. So now any reason you stop, you don't have to make that choice anymore. Like, do I want to bend over, lay my bow in the dirt, or do I want to just keep holding it? And they just attach to the stabilizer or whatever. Yeah, it attaches to the lower stabilizer. So while I was hunting, like, I can't believe how many times, you know, you don't think about it until you have this new accessory. And you're like, man, I just set my bow down right in front of me and it's standing up. It's not in the dirt. And now, you know, I'm glassing or I'm resting or I'm getting a drink, whatever. But every time you can set your bow down, it saves your arms.

Like when, I remember, you know, when I would get done hunting at the end of the day, my arms would be tired just from carrying my bow around all day. And now I just set it down. And it's just such a game changer. My arms weren't tired and, you know, I could stop and set my bow down anywhere and glass or call or whatever. But the GoSticks are new for us this year. And you guys, I put some on your guys' orders so you'll have them and test them out this year. But they're awesome. And then even just, like, getting out of your truck, I don't know, for 20 years I'd lean my bow against the back tire while I got my pack on and got whatever. And now I just get out and stand it up on the ground. It's kind of like, it looks like a bipod for a rifle. And it's like, it's just like a bipod for a bow. You just, you know. Kickstand. Same. Yeah, it's awesome. Are you. Yeah.

I mean, do you just leave them on and you hunt with them or is it a quick detach or. So I leave them on, leave them on during the hunt. That's the whole point of them. And then they just twist off. Like if you want to put it in your bow case and, you know, for traveling, they just twist off. They're just threaded. So they go on and off really easy. So it becomes part of the stabilizer or whatever. Yeah. Yep. And then, you know, I found another use is when I'm working on my bow, if I'm tying in a peep, setting on my bow up, tying a peep on or whatever, those just stand the bow up while I'm working on it. Tying on a D loop, tying in my peep, anything. And then also just to the practice range, you know, going over to, we have an archery park here between us and Easton.

And just whenever I go over there and shoot, you know, I don't need to take a bow pod or I'm not laying my bow down in the grass. It just stands up. And so it's a really cool system and I'm excited for you guys to try it out. But yeah, those have been really cool. And then we have a site. We've partnered with a Garmin. Garmin came out with the Zero, Garmin Zero a couple years ago. And so we partnered with them this year and we came out with the Picatinny Zero. So one of the things about that Garmin Zero, it's pretty big and heavy. So when it was mounted on the side of your bow, that problem we talked about with the weight on the side of your bow was, you know, was even more obvious with the Garmin. But now the Garmin mounts right on the front of the bow, puts the weight in line with your bow. So you're not having that, you know, the weight pulling on the side of your bow.

And that site, if you guys haven't played with one of those, that thing is an absolute game changer. I mean, you don't have to range an animal and then come to full draw. You just come to full draw, range it, it drops a pin and you make the shot. Meaning, and you range it with the site, right? It's a digital site. Yeah, yeah. So you come to full draw, there's a little trigger. Come to full draw, you're looking at the deer, the elk through your site. Hit the trigger. It ranges it and just drops a pin in your range of site, wherever. So, you know, it doesn't, there's not five pins to try, you know, which pin am I using? It just drops one pin for you. It does have a multi-pin option if you want to use that too. If you're comfortable with multi-pins, you can choose that option as well. And the site itself is so easy to set up.

You know, you go out there, you get it on your bow and you kind of get it set. There's a couple instructions to get it set and lined up for you. And then you shoot an arrow at 20 yards and you tell the site, you know, this arrow was at 20 yards. And then it tells you to go to the maximum distance you're comfortable shooting and shoot another arrow. And so you back up and you tell it how far you are. Say, like, I'm going to shoot this arrow at 60 yards. Well, it'll drop a pin where it thinks you are based on, you put in your arrow speed and your draw length and the type of arrow you have. And then it says, okay, you know, it has a pretty good idea of the trajectory at that point. You go to 60 yards, you shoot, and then it'll ask you, it has a little digital screen that says, did you hit the bullseye? And you can say yes or no. And so if you say no, it'll say, did you hit high or low?

And you say, I hit low. And it says, did you? And then it asks you to put in how many inches low you hit. So I hit four inches low. So it'll recalculate and say, shoot another arrow. So now it's recalibrated. You shoot another arrow, and it asks again, did you hit the bullseye? And if you did, then your sight's calibrated. If you didn't, then you can do the same adjustment. Now you can shoot 200 yards.

It's calibrated. It's calibrated. But so it's really easy to set up. It drops all your ranges, all your pins in there at different ranges. So you don't have, you know, in the past with the mechanical sight, you know, you'd set your 20-yard pin, and then you'd back up, and you'd set your 30-yard pin, and you'd back up, and you'd set your 40, and you'd just do all that manually and mechanically. And now this does that whole thing for you. And it has tons of features. Yeah, this sight is amazing. It'll, you know, if you use other Garmin products, it will connect with those. So if you, for example, take a shot, it knows which direction, you know, if you were facing south, southwest of these degrees, it knows you shot exactly that direction, and that the target you were shooting at was 48 yards.

So it can drop a pin to your Garmin GPS or your Garmin watch of your arrow should be here, or this is where your target was when you were shooting. So now you can walk right to that exact spot, start looking for blood, or start looking for your arrow. So, I mean, it's just, the stuff this sight is just crazy. Jeez. Yeah, it's really cool. Huh. I just need it to tell me where something big is.

I mean, this is unbelievable. It's mind-blowing. Anybody that's listening to this, go to Hoyt.com, go under accessories, and then obviously you've got both sites. And just to look at the, you know, then you've got the Picatinny digital site. It says by Garmin. Of course, you guys are partners on this particular project, it sounds like. But anyway, you can go see the features and just, you know, good work on the marketing end of it. There's some great visual photos there and whatnot of it and some diagrams and kind of mind-blowing. You can build arrow profiles. Let's say, yeah, you've got your deer and elk arrow, but, hey, you're going to shoot carp. I don't know. I don't know if you use different arrows. Carp shooting, you're shooting a big, heavy arrow, you're going to hunt, you know, buffalo, water buffalo, or something like that.

Wyatt could be shooting chucker in his front yard right now. He's got chuckers. I don't use multiple arrows, but it's got that feature. If you do have a heavy arrow set up for, I don't know, you use a heavier one for elk or moose. About a blunt tip. Will it give me a blunt profile? Yeah, a lot of guys will switch between whitetail setups and elk setups. Just to speed up their arrow from jumping the strings and stuff like that. Or expandable versus fixed. And so I can scroll through and choose a different profile similar to maybe a rangefinder. I can choose a different profile for my rifle and choose a .22-50 versus whatever. 300 Ultra, that's the same kind of idea, I guess. Yeah. And then you've got red and green lighted pins. I guess I get to choose what color I like. Yep, yep. You can choose your pin colors. I mean, it's really a sweet thing. Red always makes people angry.

I'd probably prefer, you know, people should choose green. Don't be angry. Green means go. Send it. I like green. But explain the process for those that listen. When you draw your bow, the range target, that full draw process, how that works with your sight. Yeah. Yeah, like you're saying punch the trigger. Like, well, what does that mean? Talk about it. Yeah, so it has a little cord. It goes from the housing of the sight, and it goes down and wraps, and it has sticky on it. It sticks right on the front of your grip. So you can put it wherever you want, like, depending on how you grip the bow, where your fingers naturally lay on the front of the bow. You'd want to put the trigger there. Gotcha. So you come to full draw. You hit the trigger, and what it'll do is it'll drop a little round circle in your sight and a dot in your sight.

And you need to line those up, and that ensures that you're actually pointing the range finder at your target. Yeah. Okay, so those are lined up. They're on your target. Let go of the button, and it'll drop, and it'll drop your range, and it'll have a little digital readout on the top of the sight that it'll tell you how far it is. But then it'll also just automatically drop your pin to that yardage. Yeah. So now the pin is sitting at the little LED light. It's at the yardage, and now you're dialed into that exact yardage, and you make your shot. Yeah. Wow. It's so cool because you get tired of dealing with all the different pins and, you know, bringing each one in. And, I mean, this is pretty cool. But it seems like you could plug and play, like, one week before the hunt starts. But I've heard people that have tried that, and you've got to get into that routine of the button.

Repetitive shooting, yeah. And it's cost people animals. So I guess there's no, you know, there's no substitute with practice. Practice, absolutely. It doesn't always just mean bite off the shelf and turn it and go shoot anything to 80 yards, and you're deadly. Yeah. Just like everything else. Yeah, you're going to want to practice. Definitely going to want to practice with it. There's a ton of features. There's a ton of features you want to have turned on. For example, there's a digital level. So instead of looking at your bubble, there are two lights that will appear on either side of your pin and tell you if you're level or not. And so you just decide, do you like that kind of a feature or not? Do you want to look at the bubble still? You know, and there's a lot of other features.

There's an apex feature where it'll drop another pin at the top of your housing and tell you this is the maximum height your arrow is going to fly on this shot. So you can tell whether you're going to hit that limb at 32 yards out. Exactly. Yeah. I did on my Arizona. I did. Remember Chris? It arced and hit a limb. Because line of sight is one thing. Yeah. Boom. Yeah, I see the deer. I remember Chris looked at me like I was. How did I blow that? Then he saved me. He saved me. The video footage saved me. Yeah. That's a cool feature. To your point, you're going to want to get this early and get some time behind it so you're used to it. It feels like it should be illegal. Is it? Is there any states that don't allow it off the top of your head? Yeah, there's a couple. There's a few western states that don't allow it. Most all eastern states, whites states, it's fully legal.

Utah, it's good to go. If it's Oregon, Washington, we're fine. Do you remember? Yeah. Which ones here in the west? I can't remember exactly which ones. I think maybe even Colorado. Yeah. I don't think it's legal in Colorado. Okay. Just an electronic component. Is that the blanket wording? Yeah. Check your regulations. Make sure you're good to go. But yeah, it's an awesome site. And last year before my elk camp, the engineers gave me a bow to take to elk camp. A new bow right before I was leaving. Like, hey, I know it's last minute, but if you want to hunt with this, it's ready to go. And so I took it to camp and I took my Garmin Zero and I put it on that bow and I sighted everything in in camp in about 20 minutes. I mean, it was just so easy.

So it's really easy to set up, but you do want to be familiar with the sight, be used to holding the trigger and ranging your targets and stuff like that. Well, will it go on any model no matter what year a guy bought his bow? I mean, it'll go on any model of bow that Hoyt makes? Yeah. So, yep. The one we sell, it comes with the Picatinny mount on it. So that'll be last year's Premier Bows and this year's Premier Bows. But in the box, there's an adapter you can take the PicRail mount off and put on a standard sight mount. Okay. So it'll mount on the side of your bow. The side of the 2020 and newer boats, I guess. We're going to need a few of these. Anyway, pretty interesting. Geez. Holy cow. Well, it's kind of crazy. I mean, again, technology just keeps advancing, you know, which some of the states are looking at for sure. You guys are probably aware of that, you know. Yeah.

Some of these states are looking at the technology and whatnot and possibly limiting it to a degree. But, wow, it's pretty impressive stuff. And you guys are definitely on the cutting edge and kind of awesome. Is there anything else we need to talk about that's earth-shattering and, you know, industry-changing potentially? I mean, no. I mean, I think we've covered all our main, you know, our new products. We have one bow we didn't touch on. We have a Premier bow that's designed specifically for women called the Eclipse. Okay. And it's, in the past, we've made, we've designed bows for women, but we were like, well, what if a youth wants to have it? Or what if a short-drawing, you know, guy wants to have it? We can't really market it directly to women. Yeah. And so this time we're just like, you know what? No, we designed this bow specifically for women.

And a few of the things we did there, we made the grip a little bit smaller. That test I mentioned earlier at 80 pounds, 30 inches. So that's a brutal test. And so it makes it so we've got our bows, you know, with the Eclipse, we said we're never going to sell this bow over 60 pounds. It doesn't have to be overbilled. Yeah. It doesn't have to be overbilled. And you don't have to beef it up as much. You can keep the weight down. Exactly. Because women don't want to pack a heavy bow either. Yeah. Exactly. So we knew we were going to sell it over 60 pounds. It was designed for women. We decided we would do all our testing at 60 pounds. That made it so this is the lightest weight bow we've ever had. So it's really lightweight, has a little bit more comfortable grip. And then the cam system we put on there is really designed and optimized for shorter draw length.

And so women will get better aero speed and energy out of this bow than if they bought, you know, the Venom Pro or the ARC-7. Yeah. Yeah. In the shorter draw length. The way it's designed to have that, what, 25 to 7 kind of sweet spot or whatever. I don't know. Yeah. I think it goes 24 to 28. Yeah. So anything in the shorter draw length. 3.7 pounds it's looking like. So, yeah. Yeah. Is there anything? I might shoot one of those. I don't know. Well, you shoot the 6.5. I have to do some weird little overdraw. You shoot the 6.5. It's very, very similar. I shoot the 300 rum. You shoot the 6.5. And my principle with rifles is the same with bows. You carry the rifle 99.9% of the hunt. And you use it. Yeah. Like 0.1%. Right. But it's the most important. It is. But meaning the more you can maybe have to carry and wait and all those things. I'm with you.

You use it for like a tenth of 1% of the time. I'm with you. It's like you use it for like five seconds. I'm with you. I'm just trying to get a rise out of you. Don't. Anyway. I like it. I like it. And we threatened to use pink clothing in Colorado. And they made that legal because Blazoran just so blinding. I was all about it. And then I put it on. We bought it. And then we're like, no, we're not going to wear that. So I can talk a big talk about using this. But I mean, it would be like a woman or a kid's bow. Literally. Yeah, it is. So I couldn't use it. I guess 30. My wife would be all over it. Yeah. Guaranteed. Well, like I said, it's made that way for all the geometry, all of the specs and configuration. The sweet spot being lower, like you talked about earlier, the sweet spot for the vent would be in a 29-70 or whatever you said, 70-pound, 29-inch or whatever. So pretty awesome.

Do all your bows come in different color or available in the different camel patterns? I mean, what are they available in? Yeah. Yep. So we've got three solid colors. We've got black. We have a buckskin. And we have a wilderness. The wilderness is kind of a dark green, OD green. And then we've got Kuyu Verde Camo. We've got the Sitka patterns, the Optifade Subalpine and Optifade EV2. And we've got Riltree. And then I think that's it. We've got a Bone Collector, Michael Waddell Bone Collector Signature Series, and a Cameron Haynes Keep Hammering Signature Series. Those come with custom limb graphics and custom string colors. I know there's a lot of whitetail hunters out there, and they, I mean, they're probably the majority of the market, but which one's most popular? Do I dare ask? Oh, that's a good question. If you break it, well, it depends where you're at in the country.

Back east, Riltree is still, you know, Riltree is definitely the most popular. Out here in the west, solid colors are more popular than the camos. No kidding. But after that, yeah, but then, you know, after that, it's a pretty tight race between the Kuyu and the Sitka patterns. Yeah. Personal preference after that. Well, and the solids allow you that, I mean, they go with any clothes. I like the solid. Some guys, literally, I've asked certain people, and I'm surprised that they don't have a Kuyu or something. I'm like, well, it's just that, you know, I don't always wear a Verde. Yeah. So I'm like, oh, you have to match your bow? And they've said, yeah. Well, that's bow hunters. So, I mean, yeah. Bow hunters are like that. Right, you know? Rifle hunters, it's a hodgepodge. So anyway. Bow hunters are perfect. It goes back to that thing we started off on.

They're very particular about every little thing. And Utah bow hunters take it next level. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, you got a greener buck skin, and you can make any color scheme, camo scheme. Utah bow hunters have to have matching camo socks. I guarantee it. Guarantee it. Don't you think so? Yeah. We're pretty picky. We're pretty picky. We are. We are. Well, hey, why don't we talk, you got any hunts? Let's talk about what's on tap for the year. What do you like every year yourself? What is kind of like, here's what I base my fall around. Do you have an archery deer, archery elk, or is it something different every year? Yeah. Or what do you love to do most in your schedule, or what do you have unique this year in your schedule coming up? Right on. Yeah, so I should draw, I think I'm going to draw a Manti elk tag. Oh, rifle. I love elk hunting, archery. It'd be okay.

We wouldn't hold it against you. We use them all. No, hey, look, I love hunting everything in every season. Right. I love pulling out the rifle. I love muzzle. I've got a muzzle at a whitetail hunt late season in South Dakota that I've been doing every year for the past seven or eight years. It's one of my favorite hunts. So, yeah, look, I'm not exclusive to archery. I love archery, but I love hunting. You could hunt a lot longer if you hunt with multiple weapons. That's just a fact. It is. Yeah. You don't, anything. So, yeah, so maybe taking it off in Utah for archery elk, hopefully. Yeah, hopefully archery elk. And then I'll, I actually, I think I'm going to, I put in for a muzzleloader deer tag this year just to, again, have more opportunity here in Utah. And then I've got a South Dakota archery hunt that's during the rut. And I have a couple other invites.

It's just trying to figure out what to fit in the schedule. Wait till that Utah happens or not. And then you know, all right, I got to, that's an immovable object. I got to plan around it. Look at your most important ones. If they pan out, then everything fits around it. But, yeah, my whitetail hunt in South Dakota, my archery whitetail, it's like the last couple days of October and the first few days of November, which is such a great time to be whitetail hunting. And that's a hunt I look forward to as much or more than anything. It's a do-it-yourself hunt. We just, a couple buddies, we all, a couple guys from Michigan that I have, that are friends out there and a buddy from Illinois. And anyway, we all just meet up in South Dakota and we rent this farmhouse and we go hang our own stand and we hang, you know, as many or as few as we want and we move them if we want to.

And it's just an awesome hunt because we're just doing it ourself and something I really look forward to. So that's, that's always on my list. Utah is always on my list, whether it's deer, elk or both. And then after that, it's just whatever else the schedule will allow. I mean, it's a busy time of year at work for us getting ready for a product launch and trade show. So I actually don't have as much time to get out of the office that time of year, ironically, as you would think I would, but, but I try to make as much work as possible. So anyway, that's what I've got planned so far. And man, I can't wait for it to get here. Yeah. So what about you guys? Well, we're waiting on a lot of draws. I'm, I'm, I'm having a bad draw year so far. So, I mean, we play a lot of the draws pretty hard around the West and hey, I don't have a lot to work with right now. Come on. I don't.

Our schedules are so jammed. They will be, but, but I mean, I have planned a couple of trips up North, which, you know, you plan years in advance, you know, doll sheep and things like that. And those obviously take a high amount of priority in my schedule. And obviously they, they have to, you got to make the most of them. They're expensive and they don't come around that often every four or five years or something. So, but yeah, we're like you, we're chomping. We've got several of us in the office. We're chomping at the Utah results here and maybe two, three weeks, uh, because a lot hinges on that in my family. And I know Jason's too, you know, some big tags that we're cashing or family members cashing in deer points and stuff like that. Hopefully we'll see. I got kids that every day are wanting to go over their hunting schedule and it's, it's stressful. It's stressful.

Your trophy hunting goes out the window when your kids get to be about 13 to 25 years old. Jeez. Oh yeah. It's awesome. It's awesome. It's so fun though. Oh yeah, it is. There's nothing like it. Yeah. I've got two boys and a son-in-law now and, and they, I mean, they're into it as much or more than I am. My, my one son's a hunting guide. So all fall he's gone just guiding. And then my other son, um, he's a UPS driver. And so that's, he's like any spare minute, he's not, you know, happened to be at work. He's out hunting and they just, and it's so, it's so cool to me to see that they, they took to it. You know, I mean, I, I didn't force it on them. I mean, but I just took them with me and they just fell in love with it. And, and, uh, and now they're like, they're out more than I am now. They're shed hunting. You know, and I'm like, nah, they wear you out. My kid wears me out.

They wear me out. I mean, I'm getting old and then they're like, he's just hitting his stride. And Jason's boys too. It's like, ah, I'm getting old. This is what my dad felt like when I was his age. Wow. I put him through a lot. What's funny is I used to look at my dad and be like, what do you mean? You don't want to go out tonight. You don't want to do this. You don't want to do that. And I was just, man, old fudder dudder. And that's me. I'm going to hang out with your mom at home right now. My back's got a keek in it. I got to do some yard work. He's been nagging at me, you know, and I'm just, geez, here I am. You're right, Bronson. Yeah. 50 years have blown by way too fast. Well, anyway. Yeah, my boys, they showed me on the map where they were on their GPS, you know, where they were going shed hunting. They're like, do you want to go with this, Dad? And I was like, no.

Like, I'm never going there, especially just coming out of winter. I was going to say. I'm in no shape to be going there. Yeah, we have desk jobs all winter long, too, probably like you. And the legs are way too soft to just go from zero to 100 miles an hour. Good once as I ever was. Yeah, I mean, you're hobbling for a week. I'm just really good at picking them up. I'm really good. I drive, I drop them off, and I tell them I go hike a bunch, and then I'm the good guy that goes back, gets the truck, comes back, picks them up, you know. And I know what they're thinking, but they're respectful enough not to say it. Dad's old. Yeah. Dad's a boomer. What'd you find, Dad? No, no. I had a tough day. I had a lot of boot tracks right now. Exactly. Exactly. Just blend in. My kids are just owning it. Yeah, well, let's see your phone, Dad, because mine says I went 15 miles. Let's see your tracks.

And they are. They're crushing. I left my phone in the truck. Yeah. You got to keep up with these kids. Well, that's fun. You got boys and a lot to share stuff with. It is fun. It's great. We can joke about it, but it is some of the funnest times I get every year. It's melting with our kids. Oh, yeah. Seeing it through their eyes. And even though yours are not your adult kids, mine are getting to be adult kids. Jason's are going to be adult kids. John's are adult kids. I mean, that's just the reality of it. But, yeah, we were there once. And got to remember, something that's not new and exciting and necessarily, you know, cutting edge for us is for somebody else. Well, we sure appreciate your time, Jeremy. I don't know what else to add to it. It seems like what a great company you're a part of. And, of course, it looks like you're two years from retirement. Congratulations.

Just keep it new and innovative. You guys are doing that. And, of course, I can't even find my last year's model on your website. I know you're proud of it, so I don't know. Anyway, pretty awesome how aggressive you guys are and, you know, heading up and leaders of the industry in many, many ways. And so, anyway, anybody out there interested, go to Hoyt.com. Of course, you can check out all the stuff we've been talking about and the other 14-plus lineups. I'm not even sure. I haven't counted them. But there's a lot on there and a lot you guys got going. And so, something to be proud of, and you've been a major part of that. And congratulations for that. Well, thank you. Appreciate the time. And we appreciate what you guys do, too. I mean, you guys are as diehard as it gets and create a lot of good content. And we all love looking at it.

Well, appreciate your partnership with us here at Epic Outdoors. And, yeah, good luck in the draws. We'll maybe hit you with an email in a few weeks if you got that elk tag or things like that. So, yeah, wish you good luck for the rest of the summer and whatever else you got planned. So, yeah, we'll do it again sometime. Cool, guys. Thank you. All right. You betcha. Thank you. All right. Yeah. Bye. At Epic Outdoors, we help you reach your hunting dreams, whether it's helping you to develop a long-term application strategy or finding the perfect outfitter for your next hunt. As a member of Epic Outdoors, you'll also receive the Epic Outdoors magazine and have access to the best hunting consultants in the industry, online tools, and more. To join Epic Outdoors, visit epicoutdoors.com or call 435-263-0777.

Thank you. Thank you.