EP 276: Fun Gun? A HUGE Muleys Matter Update, Application Deadlines and More on the Utah DWR Recs.

Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, John Peterson, Devin and Josh, as well as Logan. How you doing, Logan? I'm doing pretty good, can't complain. Yeah, right on. How's that truck doing? Hey, it is alright. We like it so far. Alright, perfect. Anyway, hope y'all are doing good out there. We're kind of excited. I mean, we're seeing light at the end of the tunnel, Bronson. There's tag results coming out like crazy. Draws come and do. Disappointment, despair. What? Blood red yesterday. For me. Blood red. Some of us saw a little tingy green. I've been seeing it for months. Yeah, yeah. I saw a little tinsel. We need proof or it didn't happen. Jason's got a little cheatgrass on his screen. I mean, it's some pretty shizzy cheatgrass.

Whatever. Alright, so what are we going to talk about today, guys? What do you guys want to talk about?

Silence.

Bronson. I thought you had the outline. No, I mean, I got a couple of notes. Okay.

Let's talk about optics real quick. We are freaking loaded with optics. We've got draw results that have come out, especially in New Mexico, most notably Montana. And guys are starting to gear up a little bit. And we're ready for that. Well, after a few years of being in business, we've kind of gotten in our groove, I guess, so to speak, in terms of knowing when our peak demand is. And we know that this is getting to that time of year from now through summer. So, yeah, we're stocked up well. That's basically what we want to tell everybody. We've anticipated this and ready to make some deals. So, give us a call when you're ready to upgrade. Or if Uncle Joe sent you a check refund back for taxes, is that time of year, too? Spend it. It's true. Or if New Mexico put $6,000, $8,000, $10,000 back on your card and you think, hey, I got money to play with. Spend it. And it's true.

If you draw a tag, you have to get some form of glass or something, right? I mean, that's... Well, that's the celebratory... I've been telling my wife that for a while. Purchase. I have to upgrade this portion of this or I will not be able to be successful on this hunt. And you've got to keep up. So, if you need help talking your wife into that, have her call me. I'll talk to her. I'll explain why you need... Have your wife call Josh. I can explain to her why you need a new BTX in your life. Well, let's let everybody know his cell phone real quick so they can reach out to him. Hit him up on the DM. Just slide in there. Josh, this is a hundred Mr. Optics. What is your Instagram handle? Do we have a beep, Logan, to beep that out? Triple Browtines, Productions, LLC. Yeah. I just remember when I drew an elk tag a billion years ago, which I did, but I told my wife

the first thing I needed to do was a new gun, you know, because this gun that I have that can completely kill a bull elk won't kill the particular kind of bull elk that I need to shoot on this hunt. They can kill general season elk, but not a limited entry. How did you justify this most recent upgrade? Which one? That's the question. Which one? Might have been a fierce in the mix. Well, there's also some things that they don't need to know about, too. Well, he's also got children growing up, and they all need guns, and so sometimes they take dad's gun, and now dad needs a new gun. That's true. Yes. So there's... This happens to Broncos. Sharing and caring is what that is. Sharing and caring? Josh, you're in dangerous water right now. Sharing and caring. I've had that gun for a while. It just got a new stock put on it. Which one? Yeah. Oh! You mean the new fierce stock. Yeah. I did.

It was... Yeah. And it's got a new sling. Yeah. I'm going to take notes. Adam had a spare stock. And I had that scope from my other rifle that I put on this one because I liked it so much. So it's not a new gun. It's just... It's just... Had a couple upgrades to it. Shoot some bigger bullets, apparently. The bottom line, whatever your rationale... Excuse, need, want... Or if you need new justification... We've got it. I can help... Think of us. I can help you lie to your wife. Think of us. Anyway, Josh. We're stacked. We are stacked. I would add to that, don't procrastinate because we've heard of supplier issues. I mean, we're stocked up right now. But in August, you might not get what you want. So, when we stock heavy, we do, we've got a lot here. But shoot, I remember last year, some guy, it was a week before his deer hunt, he got

a call from the Division of Wildlife and took a turn back tag. And all of a sudden, he was like, I need a pair of 15s for me, my dad, and my brother. And all of a sudden, there's three gone off the shelf, you know? And so, stuff can go very fast. Sometimes it takes a minute to get back, get stocked back up. So, anyway. All right. I like it. But that's awesome. I agree. Josh, I want you to talk a little bit more. Devin Bronson. Bronson's one of the most recent purchasers.

Thermal riflescopes. How cool are they? They're cool. I decided I was going to use a gun that I don't use a whole lot for a Predator gun. And I know that's, some might say that's excessive. You mean the 6.5? Yeah. For years, though. No. No, no, no. Normally a .22-250 or. . . . No, I just mean having a dedicated Predator gun. Oh, a dedicated. I thought you were talking about caliber cartridge. No. No. And for Wolves, 6.5 is. . . Oh, I know. You've got to have one. I know. I mean, a .22-250, you're going to reach out at 400 yards and hit a Wolf? But normally when people say Predator, it indicates coyotes, you know. Well, yeah. And I mean, I meant it for wolves in Idaho, which we've gone up over time, and they are legal. Or night hunting coyotes. A fun gun. Fun gun. Fun gun rolls off the tongue. Fun gun. Well, you've had that thing scopeless for how long now? Right? Oh, yeah. No.

Oh, there was a scope. I ripped a scope off of it. It was a Philly functioning big game gun. That hasn't been used for a while. Yeah. It wasn't really in your arsenal. It was one of ones my daughter used, and I hope she didn't listen to this, because. . . ! Your gun's gone. I've heard of it. It looks a little different now. Anyway, it looks a little different. It's a little heavier, but I've got guns for her that are bigger and better than ever. And this gun, I just decided, let's just kind of make it, because it's kind of hard to pull the thermal off and put it back on your big game rifle and reset. I just didn't want to have to. Just for one or two trips up to Idaho or whatever. I know that sounds excessive, but I just wanted to get it set up, and that's what it is. And I could also lend it to my brother or, you know, maybe one of y'all or something if you're going on something. No?

Huh. Possibly. But what I would like to do is encourage. . . I would like to encourage y'all to do that state-of-the-art Pulsar scope, which we now deal in, and maybe tell us a few of the features. I looked through it, but we all looked through it, but I'm intimately familiar with it like you are. Yeah, I'm still. . . I just barely. . . I mounted it, and I sighted it in. That's as much of an expert as I am at this point. I have not. . . We range found with it. Oh, yeah. It's got an internal range finder in it. It's got an internal range finder, which is kind of a must. Not as critical if you're hunting coyotes. You set a gun at 100 yards or dead on at 200, especially a 6.5 or something. It's like an inch high at 100. Like, you're going to kill coyotes. Yeah. But if you're hunting wolves at, say, 300, 400, 500 yards, if you can see that far and all that, you need a range finder built in.

You know, and sometimes you might need. . . You need to know what reticle to hold on. Yeah. You might need a spotter with you with, you know, thermal binos or something, because otherwise you're panning with your rifle scope all the time. This is only if you're night hunting or whatever. That's all it is. That's all it is. It'd be good in the broad daylight, too. It's not night vision. In certain, you know, conditions, especially winter months, you know, which is when we usually hunt, we usually hunt wolves or coyotes. We hunt coyotes in the early fall sometimes, too. But you kill a coyote whenever you see it. Yeah. But when it's hot, it's not going to work as well, because rocks and everything, you know, glow in the summer. Yeah. But anyway, my first dabble in this, honestly, very first dabble in thermal. Pretty. On all things thermal. So it's kind of cool. It's pretty fun.

Got my suppressor on there. I've had one of those for a year or two, and I got that on there, and it's... Dude, it's... And it'll allow you to kill the whole pack, maybe. Huh? Who knows? I hope to find out. I'm really excited for next winter. It's kind of too late for this winter, but next year, I'm going to... Maybe someday you'll end up having to go to Texas and... Well, this is kind of one of those guns, like, this would be the fun gun. Yeah. The fun gun would be awesome in Texas. Yeah. The fun gun. We had a guy... It would be awesome. Yesterday, we sold a pair of the merger binos, range-finding binoculars that they have that are thermal. We sold a pair of those to a guy that's up in Idaho. Just top-shelf stuff. We sold a pair of those, and that's what he has. He lives kind of right on the end of town, I guess, has a big, basically, hillside that

the deer and elk and stuff are wintering on. And he said every night. And wolves are coming down, picking stuff off, and he's tired of it. He wants to do something about it. He had his brother... His brother had sent him a gun. Loaned him his gun. A gun. But it wasn't a range-finding gun or anything like that. And he's like, yeah, you can kind of see, and it works or whatever. But he's like, I need a range-fighter. I need binoculars. And so he was going to set it up. He's leveling the playing field. And so, yeah, we sent him a pair of those range-finding binoculars. How awesome is that? Jeez. Well, keep that in mind, I guess, if you guys are all, anybody's interested in a fun gun. Yeah. Yes, we've got... I like it. We've got some rifle scopes. We've got binoculars, some handheld, you know, binoculars, I guess, that we're carrying of Pulsars.

Devin, why don't you talk to us a little bit about guns, gun sales and a few things like that. Rifles? Yeah, we've been cranking on rifles. We're ordering a bunch. It's been good. Yeah, it's good. Yeah, it's fun. It's been a while since I sold the rifle, but it comes back... You mean prior to this year. Several years, yes. Back in it. Back in the saddle. Yeah. We've helped a lot of guys in their... I don't know, on average, back in the day, any custom rifle you would order was always meant... If you got it six months, it was like, yippee. Could be a year and a half. We've been getting them three months, probably, on average. Two, three months. Yeah. It's awesome. And a lot of those were stocking, and so there's no weight at all. We just got them in stock. Yeah, we'll have a couple on the shelf, and then any custom order, scope, combo, whatever you want.

Get a great deal, maybe the best deal right here. Epic Outdoor. So, pretty awesome. Kind of fun. That thermal scope is next level. When I look through it, it's like, geez. It's neat. And I can justify about anything. I'm coughing for just a quick sec on that one. Mostly because Jana's editing the podcast. You just wait. If I go out and shoot something with it... Oh, done. I guarantee we'll get a ding, ding kill the next morning. So, we're going to go make that happen. Probably true. All right. Well, let's move on. We want to talk about this Muley's Matter movement a little bit. We kind of have initiated that, and a lot of that was brought on, you guys, you know, as we talked about, winter kill, droughts, extended droughts that we've been in in some of the states, and then now we've got an excessive winter, which is good in parts, but really

bad in northern Utah, you know, southern Wyoming, parts of Idaho, along the Wyoming border, northwest Colorado, country like that. And so, anyway, we just thought, well, you know, and some of the states are somewhat, you know, dealing with budget constraints and things like that, and at times in our minds are potentially issuing still too many tags. Not necessarily saying we should shut hunting down altogether in those areas, but as an incentive to, you know, if you get a tag, not to shoot a dink or whatever, you know, we want you to go hunt. We want you to hunt aggressively and try to kill something. Yeah, let's clarify that. There's been some people, I don't know, bark at us, I guess, and just say, hey, you're, you know, you just want to eliminate the competition out there in the hunting field by, draw your tag and send them to us in the summer and don't go hunt.

It's not what we're saying at all. That's a small thinking. We want everybody to go hunt their guts out. That's what this is about. Go hunt hard. But maybe in the back of your mind, you know, as the hunt's progressing, if it's not the way you're liking it to go, if you don't need to just shoot a buck to shoot a buck, say you shot a buck, maybe this is give somebody incentive to hold onto that tag and send it into us. We're going to have a load of prizes.

That's what this is for. We're not trying to, you know, impose our thought process or will on everybody else. Of course, there's all levels of hunters with young hunters, old hunters, meat hunters. It doesn't matter. Everybody's fine. But if this is in the back of your mind and stops you maybe from shooting a buck here and there, that's all it's for. We're not trying to make anybody feel bad if you shoot something. But if you don't, send your tag in. It has to be a 2023 tag. I want to put that out there. We already got one in the mail. It was from last year. It was cool. And we're going to have to send it back. Probably didn't clarify that, but we haven't even started. The hunts aren't even here yet. So it will have to be a 2023 original tag, not a duplicate tag either. We've kind of gone into some of that stuff. Got to be an original tag.

2023, you send it in by December 1st, and then we're going to have different categories of draws. Yeah. We've decided, you know, there's, you know, of course, a lot of states are limited entry. You know, that's how they issue all their tags. There are some states that have general season tags over the counter, you know, for residents in like Idaho. Wyoming, you know, Montana or places like that. But anyway, we're going to define that a little bit, might even fine tune it a little bit more. If you want to go into it today, we can. I think we should just give our initial thoughts maybe today. And then we're going to have some categories. We're going to have some general season categories. We might even have like, we've bannered this around, might even have an epic staff pick, like for somebody that turns in an unused tag that we think is like, holy cow. The most amazing tag. 13B. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I'm just throwing that out. Or some elite 44 third or something. And the guy might be like, yeah, I passed 200 inches, but here you go. No. Well. That guy's an idiot. Well. Well. I'm just saying. You're passing a 200 inch. I might be me. Because you might win. You know. A trail camera. Cut and wrap. Cut and wrap. Pork. Hey. Hey. So let's talk about some of that. So when we first started this, Bronson, remember, we were just talking really localized, heavy winter kill areas. But then we had a lot of feedback. You know, you guys. I mean, you were dealing with Devin. You were dealing with it. As guys were saying. What about Nevada? We've been in a long term drought. And by the way, area six, seven, and area ten are hammered with snow. And maybe what about other parts of Colorado? We've got localized problems over here. And then. Southeast Idaho. Yeah.

And other parts of Idaho. Even guys in Arizona are like, what about Arizona guys? You know. And we're like. In Mexico. You're pretty amazing in Arizona this year. But they have been dealing with drought. They're coming on a long term drought. And, you know, not so bad to save a few lives down there. And so this is what we thought initially. We have adjusted. We've listened to it. We've heard it. And to preface all this, there's no cost to enter. If you get your tag. If you don't like it, just forget you ever heard what we're talking about. Yeah. It's no big deal. It's no big deal. You're not having to pay to enter. And 100% of things that we're donating or anybody's donating, 100% will be drawn by people that send their tags in. So A, there's no financial gain from Epic whatsoever. None. There's no entry other than just getting us your tag. The price of a postage stamp and an envelope.

Okay. So get us your tag. And then we've included other states. And we'll just talk about those real quick. So for like the limited draws, as far as, you know, if you drew a limited draw tag, it's a limited draw tag. It requires you to have points or not, whatever, and you drew it. It was limited in nature. Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah, and Wyoming. If you drew a limited draw tag and you didn't harvest a buck, then send it in. And, you know, there's going to be a great, good chunk of prizes. We'll call that a draw tag category. Draw tag category. Limited entry. Some generals, remember, like Utah and for non-residents in Wyoming or draw. Yeah. So they're going to be in that category. And so in the general, well, in the general and the over-the-counter type tags would be Arizona, Idaho, and Wyoming.

So if you ended up with an over-the-counter general in nature, over-the-counter, you can just go get one. Arizona archery or Idaho has that, especially for residents, and then Wyoming for residents. And so if it's general in nature, that's a category, and there's going to be prizes associated with that. And then the bombs on moms, doe tag category. Let's clarify that. We're talking muleies matter, of course. Muleies. No whiteies. We're not talking about, right? Or antelope. No. I know they're struggling. But this is not a prongies matter movement. Not spoons matter. So anyway, that's what we're dealing with. So that's, you've kind of heard it. The doe tags, Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming. In large part, yeah, we're trying to, like, why are we doing this? And maybe it's to offset some of the effects of drought and heavy winter conditions, hoping to kill less.

Yes. Potentially foster a higher age class of game out there on the landscape. And just encourage people to think twice before smashing a two-by-three. Because, and we're okay with people harvesting bucks. If you want it, like, you should harvest it. But there's some guys that absolutely just don't, they've done a lot of that. Their freezers are full. Just to kill one, just to kill one. Maybe you don't. Maybe you let that one live. Right? Right. Kids, kill whatever you want. Like, we're good with that. And, again, this is not to do anything other than just cause a little bit of awareness. Like, we can do something. If you think your state is given too many tags after this heavy winter, which some of them are, in our opinion. Some places do. This is one thing we can do. Yeah.

Well, and like I said, we've seen severe tag cut recommendations already out of Wyoming, out of Colorado that are being proposed. A lot of doe tags are being eliminated, which is probably, in our minds, overdue. But good to see, finally. But, yeah, just gives you a chance, like we've said. Fun entry. Doesn't cost you a thing. Think it's stupid. Forget about it and just go hunt. Everybody hunt your guts out. We want to see your pitches of great big bucks and awesome bucks or medium-sized bucks or whatever. But before you just crush something, just to say, I killed a buck in Colorado and he's a, you know, whatever. A buck that, you know, you've shot a million of before in your life. Just think about that. And it's fun to harvest stuff, right? It is. Yeah, it is.

But as the light's fading on the last night and you're frantically driving around and you see a little Forky out there, a button buck maybe, trying to get his harem loaded up. Or even a 22-inch three-by-four. Yeah. Whatever. And you just say, like, you know, this 30 pounds of high-quality protein, best meat in the world of venison, or should I maybe send this tag in for a brand-new rifle or a brand-new bow? I'd probably take that rifle or bow or whatever else. We've got some pretty amazing, some hunts, whatever. We've got stuff coming in. And maybe you want to take that over to those 30 pounds of glorious buck meat. I just had a thought. And you don't have to gut it in the freaking dead of winter over there on the fourth or third season in Colorado. I just had a good thought. Somebody, we should have some big boxes of jerky as prizes.

Because some people, I love just kill a buck for jerky. That's right. Yeah. Jerky. We may even use some of our cash donations that we get if people want to donate something like that. Or donate jerky. Send it. Send it. Hey, there's a guy out there, Brandon Maharo. I like it. Maharo's meats. He'd be all into this. He's a hardcore hunter. Super good guy. Maybe we'll reach out to him. He's a great guy. Maharo meat. Look him up. They make some incredible jerky, by the way. We'll replace the six pounds of jerky you would have got off that two-point. With 12 pounds of high-quality beef. Some people choose a forky, by the way. A bunch of beef. The meat's amazing. How about fawns? Geez. Could you imagine eating a fawn? It'd be tasty. Oh, my wife. Lamps. My wife would be all over it. My wife loves it. Jen wouldn't even cook it. She loves the babies. Oh, yeah. Loves to eat them raw.

Is that a thing in Europe? Oh, yeah. Like veal and lamb? Yeah, absolutely. And she's shocked that here we don't eat anything that's undercooked. And she's like, your government's just brainwashing you. If you freeze it before, it kills everything. I mean, she gets filet mignon. We grind it up into hamburger, and she eats it raw. Yeah. And it's amazing. If you can get past the thought of it, it's really good. Like dances with wolves, like eating a liver, man. I don't know. No. We haven't gotten that far. Okay. Well, that's like eating an oil filter. All right. Let's keep it. Okay. So we did talk about we must have a way to contact you on the tag. So write your phone number on the tag. Or, you know, with a Sharpie or a pin. And it's got to have your name and address. We've got to know who it is. You can't blur all that out, cut it out.

If you want to cut out your social, which I don't know how many tags have that. But date of birth, CID numbers, punch those out, cut them out, whatever. A lot of them just don't have a lot. Got to have your name and address on it. Nothing to worry about. And we're not going to go around posting all these personal information. It's not going to happen. So anyway. And then this is kind of an interesting one. We reserve the right to verify fraudulent stuff that's going on. Who knows? With these kind of things, you never know. Again, there's not a dime in it as far as, you know, we're concerned. We're just saying if somebody's trying to take advantage of the system, we'll reserve the right to look into it. People will find a way, right? And we're going to look into everybody that's drawn. And we reserve the right. Go ahead, Josh. I think you wrote this. No, I did not.

You said lambaste your on social media. Yeah, yeah. So you're not going to get out of this scot-free. Everybody's going to know who you are. Anybody that's cheating the system. If you try to cheat the system. We're putting you out on the podcast. We're doing. Might make the wall of shame. We're not screwing around with this. Just be honest. Send in your tags. This is a fun contest. Don't make it into, you know, hey, I'm trying to get the best of somebody by shooting a buck and sending a tag in at the same time. All right. So I just want to throw out, Bronson, we just want to throw out some of the prizes. It's pretty crazy. And this is growing by the week, absolutely. It's nuts. We've had a great response. And we've been a little bit quiet since we talked about this. It's not on purpose. We've just been grinding on magazine stuff. But anyway, there's cash prizes.

I'm kind of rested to see this third one when you let him know what he's doing. Oh, yeah. John. I must have missed that podcast. I'm donating 500 bucks. Right. I don't care. Yeah, you don't have a choice. I'm all over it. Me and Adam voted. And it's a two out of three. So do I get to choose what pot that goes into? I might come up with something, you know. We can let John do that. Yeah. You know. I don't know what it is. It's one of those three pots. Like what? No, I don't know. There's a general bomb. A limited draw, general, or bombs on moms. That might be like kids under 18. John. Or something. My 500s. We just can't. I don't know. We can't have 14,000 categories. Pretty soon. Well, you got 14,000 prizes. Oh. Well, there's not that many, but there's maybe 1,400. All right. So we can. So, John, you reserve the right to pick the bin you want. Maybe. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know.

I'll give you that. I'll just think it over. This is new to me. I didn't know I was donating. Just write the check. I don't know why it has to be difficult, John. We want your five Benjis. That's about it. So we got cash prizes. We got backpack logistics for a five-day backpack meal kit. Yeah. I mean, that's legit. Yeah. It's no joke. Dustin, thanks for stepping up. We're going to also post all this on social media throughout the fall. Throughout the summer and fall. He already basically just ruined that, though. What? In a way. We kind of posted, hey, heads up. This is coming out. What did he do? He just couldn't wait. Did he? He said, hey, we're donating this. He did already. Yeah. We had to make sure we hit him back. Well, and he's going to want to do the rentals. You peeked at the presents under the tree. He's going to want to do the... Spitter? Spitter rentals? The spitter rentals.

The llamas. But he knows nobody's going to want that prize. Yeah, that's true. So maybe it's a good one to donate because nobody would take him up on that. Does it come with one of those face shield masks? Like a wetsuit. Just call it rain jacket? Slicker. A slicker and a face shield. Anyway, he's a good friend of ours. We can give him a little grief. It's awesome. Appreciate you, Dustin. Yeah, fierce rifle. That's... Epic Outdoors. Full donation. We paid for this. Same with the Hoyt VTM 34 QU pattern. We'll also be reaching out to these companies as well. So I'm thinking there's going to be some more coming. An entire Vortex package. That is from Vortex. We've got Colton Banks. Trigger finger replicas. I mean... Can't replicate the buck you shoot on the tag you're sending in, of course. But another buck. Yeah, the two by three. Whatever.

But he will do a replica or potentially we're talking a mini bronze. I mean, there's... It's awesome. He's such a good advocate of hunters. And just has a great business and good thing going. Mike Duplan. We've got a good chunk of his books as well as a painting coming. So that's going to be pretty awesome. He's a lover of mule deer. He likes the big ones as well as sheep, obviously. But anyway, great guy. We've got a couple of anonymous donors. New in box type optics. Pretty awesome. You know what I mean? Guys just want to throw it out there. Trail cams, obviously. Stealth cam and epic. What's this, Josh?

That's a tattoo.

What is it? We had one of our faithful followers up north. It's a tattoo artist. And she reached out and she says, hey, I'm going to donate a session, part of a session, something like that. So we're thinking, yeah, sweet mule deer tattoo. Maybe the epic logo? Yeah, potentially. I don't know. Better be deer oriented. Mule deer. Probably should. Probably shouldn't be like a little honeybee or something on your lower back, Jason. Come on. Good grief. And hey, just before we say that, this goes without saying, but in each pool as we drive prizes, we're going to let the winners pick of the available prizes on the table. In that category. So if you're someone that likes tattoos and wants them, that will appeal to you. You're not going to say, hey, Jason, you want a tattoo. You know? Not that you can apply. I would have to.

But in other words, all of these prizes, if you're not a bow hunter, you don't want the white bow. You might want the rifle. Or you want a range finder. You want optics. You want choke hammer. You're going to get a pick in order. So just don't freak out. Or maybe you want a five-day lion hunt with Mecham Outfitters. Oh, who doesn't want that? Ooh. Yeah. Mecham Outfitters here in southern Utah. Wow. Hunter Mecham. They are awesome. I mean, just unbelievable stepping up to the plate like that. And these guys are reaching out to us. We haven't reached out to them. Yeah. It's just people that hear the initial idea. Guys that love muleys and want to do their part more so than turn it into their tag. They want to donate something like this. Talk to Mark Thompson up there, Thompson Long Range. He's doing a couple of two-day shooting courses. You don't need to buy the gun.

You can go there, learn from Mark, shoot. You're going to shoot long range. Learn a lot. Learn the system. I mean, super good guys. Mark and Scotty. Just awesome. They're up there in the heart of some of that heavy water. Hard winter stuff. Yeah. We got a traditional bow package, an entire bow package with Selway Archery. A guy that actually drew a tag here in Utah. And just an awesome guy. And he reached out. We've got, from Gunworks, a Revik BR4 rangefinder. Yeah. I mean, you know, there's just a lot going on. More coming. A lot of guys are still wrapping their head around what they want to do. So, anyway. Anyway. Yeah. We are. This is growing. And, of course, the prizes are going to grow up until November 30th. We're in April. You know. Yeah. That's right. So, this is just a little. We're already up probably 20 Gs or something like that. Seriously. More than that. More gun. Archery.

Multiple archery package. Five-day lion hunt. We're not giving away hats and T-shirts. I mean, yeah. And we may have. How about that? We may. Yeah. Huh? No. Some epic. No. Epic swag. Maybe a $500 type package or something. Not individual, but with packages. Yeah. Maybe with the package. But these aren't going to be, you know, a keychain. We're not doing stuff like that. Bronson. Well, I'm just saying. I want one. I need a keychain. Phil, go buy one for $2.50. Okay. We're not giving those away. Plus tax. Yes. Anyway. All right. Anyway, pretty fun stuff. Just wanted to throw a few more things out there. We're going to. You can go on to Instagram. It's Meleys underscore matter, right? Yeah. It'll be probably the best way. And we're going to highlight all these guys individually and kind of show you guys a little more in depth of what they're. You're following along also. Yeah. Yeah.

Keep following along. We're going to keep posting on there pretty regularly. Any updates or anything. All right. Well, we're going to post these official rules with the states. We kind of went over them fast. So we're going to. We're going to post that as well. So you can go back and reference that to make sure that your dough tag comes from the correct state that it needs to in order to send it in or whatever. I like this. Here's an angle for the businessmen out there. I'm scared right now. Well, Bronson. I'm scared. I'm thankful there's a two to three vote on this. I saw the light bulb just gloss right above your head. Your eyes lit up. John loves competitions and he loves intricate rules and details. Okay. Here we are. If you are a business, right? And you tend to love muleys and you think muleys matter. And you want to donate. And you want to donate. You can.

We'll put your name out there. You can call it an advertising cost. Donate to the cause and you can write it off. Yeah. As an at business expense. And if you don't have something again. Yeah. If you're an office. Why company? What do you do? John's now. Not even. John's now advising in tax. Right. It's fresh on his mind. John, did you have to pay some tax? I had to pay some tax. I cried a little bit. I don't think there was just a little bit of tax. Yeah. There was a lot. But anyway. No. That's totally legit. You know. You'll get. We'll talk about you on the podcast. We'll promote your business for donating. And it's kind of like our non-profit. But it's kind of like our loss organization. Our four loss. It just costs us. Our four loss. But it's fun. Yes.

But I think it's fun. We're going to have one of those post office things with envelopes zip around in. Different categories. John will be going through the youth ones. Yeah. John. This is funny that he's talking about the youth. Because he doesn't think anybody under 30 should have a sheep time. All of a sudden he cares about kids. It's just sheep. This is deer. It's deer. What's a lifetime tax? Yeah. John thinks any special tax shouldn't be given to kids. Well, you know. Sometimes I just say stuff to get a rise out of people. But. Jeez. You do. It is hard for me to see a 12-year-old kill a sheep when you've got an 80-year-old that's put in his whole life and is just going to die. The 80-year-old had the most amazing opportunities life ever gave. That's true. I mean, they had over-the-counter tags. They had four buck tags a year. Yeah. Send your hate mail. Party hunting.

They had legal party hunting. And then illegal party hunting that nobody cared about. That's the problem because they took part in that. And they felt the need to feed the community. And then now they're saying, well, geez, we don't get special treatment. So I don't like old people either. I'm 80 and I don't get special treatment? You've had special treatment your whole life. But for the record, if my 12-year-old drew a sheep tag, I'd go, heck yes, we're going. Yeah. So. Yeah. I'm not saying you shouldn't. You're not turning that back. But just, yeah. Okay. So to John's point, though, if you're a business that wants to donate to this and you don't have something that your business makes that is maybe a natural fit for a hunting giveaway, you know, shoot John an email or something like that. You know. Yeah. Call us. 435-263-077. Like I said, we'll put you in the jerky pile.

We'll buy jerky with it. I'm serious. Who knows? Or we'll give away non-hunting items. Yeah. Absolutely. Who cares? We've talked about giving away like a, you know, cut and wrap pork. Pig. Cut and wrap. I like that idea a lot. Actually. I like that. That's not my idea. Yeah. Beef and pork. Whatever. Or maybe one of our deer. Right? I don't know if we could do that. Oh, you didn't kill a deer? I got plenty. There you go. I don't know. Just sign a donation. You sign a donation for them. It's all legal. So it doesn't matter. We can do anything. One of the cool things that Mahara meets, can't say it, but they've got turkey jerky and all kinds of like exotic things. He's getting a lot of love and he doesn't even know it yet. Yeah. But anyway, kind of cool. Maybe we'll come up with some stuff. He's donating. He will. He's a good guy. All right. Well, anyway, so pretty fun. Pretty fun stuff.

Go ahead, Bronson. That's all. We've said enough money. It's awesome. If you've got something, donate. Contact us. We should come up with a logo and a shirt and hat. Muleys matter. Huh? Keychain. I mean, come on. Bronson. Where are we getting in? We're on. Maybe keychain. Maybe. Maybe. What do you guys think? Devin. Can't have enough t-shirts. Yeah. T-shirts are good. Hats. I don't know about keychains. I don't know. He just minimizes everything. This guy said he needed one. I need shirts in the hat. In the market for a keychain. All right. Well, anyway, pretty fun stuff. Devin, why don't you talk to us a little bit about, you deal with our outfitters heavily, and you're helping guys find outfitters. Why don't you talk to us a little bit about Montana, New Mexico results, all the things that are going on. Yeah. It's been an exciting week, to say the least. Been awesome. I love it. Yeah.

I mean, I called so many people yesterday that drew tags. It's just fun. Yeah. It's the favorite part. Yeah. So, one of the most unique draw tag experiences one of our members got, one of our license application guys ended up with, was he ended up with a deer tag, an elk tag, and an antelope tag. In New Mexico. New Mexico. New Mexico. One of the best deer. One of the best elk. One of the best antelope. He'll kill a boon or antelope. In the unguided regular draw. Yeah. Right. Who does that? Called him so many times, and yeah, finally got a hold of him. He's on his honeymoon. And where's that? He's like, hey, Devin, I'm on my honeymoon. Yeah. Stop calling. That's Italy. He's in Italy. He's like, what time is it there, dude? Sorry, but you drew three tags. Like, I have to tell you. And I have to talk to you. These guys are going to book up. Yeah. These were not junk tags.

Well, my wife's taking a nap here in a minute. I'll call them all here in a minute. Like, one of the best two elk tags in the state. One of the best two or three deer tags in the state. And a top elite antelope tag in the state. Unbelievable. In the regular draw. Yeah. Who has those kind of odds? I've never drawn one in my entire life. Yeah. Anyway, pretty fun stuff. We've also dealt with a lot of Montana. We've got a lot coming up, too. Bronson, I think you've been really quiet in your office. And I don't know. I feel like you were replying 14 women and children. One woman. One woman. One woman. I had some sticky notes I was going to bring. Remember the sticky? I was going to bring some. Because I've heard some things. I remember the one. Out of me? Yeah. Coming out of that office, Alas. I heard the word booner, goal, and antelope. Something like that. Oh, that's right.

I am going to kill a booner antelope this year. And you know what? You're going to draw. I'm going to go with you. It's going to happen. How are you going to do that? The reason that I'm a little bit bummed is I have enough points to do a bunch of damage in Wyoming, and it's just getting crushed. And it's unfortunate that it's not just crushed in certain areas. It's crushed in the best public land-dominant trophy units in the state. No question. And so I'm probably going to sit it out. I don't want to be the guinea pig. I've got double-digit plus points. And you and I talked about it. Some of those herds, they're decimated by half. So in one area, they have 28,000 animals, they figure, and half of them are laying down on that landscape. We are not talking about that. As of a week ago. April 10th. Yeah. And they're getting snow today and tomorrow. Oof. So I'm probably sitting it out.

So that went from a guarantee. I should have done it last year like you, Archibald, but I didn't. I was too busy and other stuff. But now. I want to kill. I've kind of got a hankering for a big, big spooner. Spoon. Whatever you call it. Spoon. Big spoon. Whoever's called them. Big old cutters. I've never called them spoons, but Jason said that's another name for them. Somebody's. A guy wrote a story and he called them spoons. I was like, yeah, they are kind of like that. Yeah. His buck did have prongs shaped like spoons. But yeah, I've got a bunch of points in, well, where else? I guess Nevada. I'm double-digit there, but that doesn't mean a lot. I just know I get to share that window right there. I'd like to know what was about to go. I can hear. I can hear. I can just hear every time the draw results, like one more will come out. And it's like, okay, this is it. All right.

Oh, what did he say about New Mexico? I'm feeling green. I don't know. What was it? Yeah. Something like that. And it was like, I'm the only one that got a little tense. Last night when we stopped answering phones, I could just hear that keyboard over there. Just whoosh. Oh, it was. It was. There was smoke coming through. There was. And then this morning, it was really quiet. I look over there and all I can see is the Utah site was up. Three states. Three states for a family of five or six. The nice thing is once you get them in there, then it's an easy plug and play. I tell you, that's been nice with Utah doing that, though. And I already, from last night to this morning, changed both my Nevada antelope and deer. And it's nice to do it. I love it. I've changed a lot. Leave it how it is now. I like it.

Because I'm afraid if something bad happens and I'm in the hospital and can't change, you know what I mean? And so I'm always like, hey, if I think it, I'm going to go in and change right now. Yeah. Because if I end up to work. Because if you slipped into a coma. Yes. And then I come out in July, I'm going to be like, what was I thinking? This is why we're trying to tell you, just give us your logins. Yeah. We'll take care of you. We will do good things. You guys. There's some guys in this room. Wyatt has them and I don't even know it. He knows everything. Have you noticed that he never asked us what we apply for? Why? Because you're going to return the question. No, because he knows. I don't know. He picks up on a lot. He's a smart guy. Snuck into the HR department, thumbed through some. Has birth dates. No, no, no, no. Anyway. Got a new nickname for him, by the way. I think he likes us.

Come on. The dude. Is this for breakfast the other morning? Yeah. Remember, we're going to breakfast like 25 degrees the other morning. Oh, yeah. It's springtime and Wyatt doesn't even have a jacket. No, he has a light. He has a short sleeve. Short sleeve. A light one. We could see our breath. We could see our breath. It's cold. We go to breakfast. Wyatt's in a t-shirt like John Wayne. We go in. We sit down. What does he sit down under? The picture of John Wayne. With a 30-30. Yeah. So he's the Duke, man. Call him the Duke. I love it. He likes this one. Much better than the one we tried to give him that he really didn't have anything for. So he's the Duke. I'm not even going there. Wyatt. How could you argue against that nickname? How? I don't know. If you're a red-blooded American and you fight that one, you're not a red-blooded American. Come on. You can't.

Kind of like El Capitan or something like that. I mean, geez. All right. Well, anyway, we're right in the throes of things. If anybody out there needs any help and you're a member of Epic Outdoors, you're welcome to call us. We'll surely help you. We'll crank through some Nevada options for you. But we always – I love – there's a few guys that are like, Jason, just give me something out of the box, out of the ordinary that you would consider doing yourself but that you can't really print or you don't – it hasn't been proven. We usually try to print proven stuff that we can back up, right? Well, yeah, and there are outlier places that you can overachieve with either luck or a lot of work that's hard to convey that all in print because somebody will just key in on some 350 bulls have been come from this unit. Well, yeah, one or two a year, you know. Well, I had a guy today.

He's like, we printed 330 to 350. He's like, well, tell me, like, how many am I going to see? You know, and those are hard things. Like, I don't know. I don't know how you're going to hunt or what you're going to do. How good a glass you got. I don't know anything. I don't know. I mean, we've had guys. We went out to Nevada and helped, and they don't even hunt in the evenings or the next morning or not. You know what I mean? And so you just – I don't know, but it's a good unit. It's a really good unit. And so some of that's just subjective. You just don't know. But what I'm so excited about is all the SKUs in Utah, all that – what we've talked about, options. They're – Pretty endless. Endless. There's a lot of stuff that's going to get overlooked.

Yeah, and for residents here, it's a little bit difficult because most of those SKUs that got added were for elk, and I think most of us are applying for deer. Well, so – Yeah, here in this room. In their office is what I mean. So, like – but we have family members, yeah. You know, my woman and children. That I'm playing around with some of these elk options. They're really interesting to think about. There's going to be some that are overlooked, completely forgot about. Your job is to figure out which one that might be. Well, and even for non-residents where they can apply for everything, there's things that are overlooked. Totally different for them. But, yeah. It's not as exciting for me as a resident because I'm putting it for deer, and I'm putting it for the quality deer. You had to choose some things for your daughter. And same thing with me and in-laws and – Yeah.

Outlaws and all that. Yeah. It's just – it's kind of fun, and it's going to be interesting. And then after – you know, this is one of those times, a unique period in history when you're going to find that there's surprises. And then next year – And then next year it's going to be uncovered when the draw goes out, and then it's going to be overcompensated, and you're done forever. Well, the results speak for themselves. Now there's precedent set. There's – this one took seven points. Oh, that must be awesome. Yeah, or – Pine Valley takes seven general deer points. That must be incredible. No? Well. Hey, how about – Let's just go there. Let's talk about the – let's talk about that meeting. Real quick before we go to the general deer point, Britt. Did you – speaking of SKUs – did anybody in your jurisdiction, stewardship – Women and children – get applied for any December archery elk?

Yes or no? Yes. Whoa. More than one person. No. Wow. Hey. Good. You have to be really careful because that's a busy time of year for all of us, and they need to really want it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because it's going to be cold and all of those things. But yes, if you don't have a lot of points – So you're spreading some SKUs people out. Well, you know. Yeah. They don't even know it.

Poor – When I was a kid, if you were excited about it, you figured out how to apply yourself or work with your parents and work off some application fees. Whatever you need to do. Lawn mowing, whatever. Now it's just they get applied and they don't – hey. And I can't stop. I just can't stop. Well, Dad, where's my combo lunches? I'm going fishing in Nevada. I don't even want them to have the ability because I get to choose. You know? I don't know what it is. I love that ever since – It's my Christmas gift to them, like to all my kids. It's just I'm going to apply at you and take care of your tags. And it gives me an opportunity to hunt with them and have family time. That's the way I justify it in my mind. And it's a Christmas gift in the tree. I don't know. I need to start – I don't do that. It's just a given. It's a freebie for me. I need to give it in a card. I need to do that.

And that's what I do. Yeah. And just basically Dad's taking care of this and we're going to go on a hunt. You'll thank me later. You'll thank me later. Yeah. I guarantee him a hunt a year. Sometimes I get three.

And we don't – Guarantee. Well, sometimes we accidentally get three. But I try to guarantee him a hunt with Dad and sometimes Mom. You know, as a group or family or whatever. Take the meat wagon that rarely gets filled. Speaking of, you've got a new meat wagon.

How do you like it so far? I can haul a lot more meat. How do you like it so far? It's good. Best truck I've ever owned.

Sorry, John. Had it for a week. It's not true. I was just going to say, I thought that was used yesterday when I saw a title signing going on or something. This is the best truck I've ever owned. I gave John a deal he couldn't refuse. I couldn't refuse. It's actually the best truck I've ever owned. So, yeah, I forget. John has a new truck because Jason has a new truck. So, anyway. It's pretty awesome. Yeah. Don't try to pound. I thought you were talking about a box trailer. The meat wagon. Well, the meat hauling wagon. Yeah. How's that? Yeah. It's all good. There's a lot of moving parts, right, John? Yep. A lot of moving parts. What do you mean? Should be cut and dried. Anything the state tax commission needs to know about? No. No. Devin, you're selling a truck. We'll see. And we just want to know when we need to be on the lookout for the next one. Not for a while. Because I love.

We'd love to help people. Not for a while. You're just going to use the new Toyota. You're going to have one truck? What if it breaks down? It's brand new, Jason. That should be all right. And? Isn't it? Well, two years old. Step one, I would need some hunts before I worry about that. That's priority one. We can help with that. You need to draw some stuff, and then we'll cross that bridge. But, Bronson, mine's new, and I just replaced motor mounts. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, but mine's a. You're just taken care of? Mine's a Toyota, dude. Oh, geez. I've seen a lot of Toyotas with their front end flat to the ground. Like, the front end parts are a little. Luckily for me, that never happened to me. Not on yours, yeah. All right. So, Bronson, where does that leave us? Let's move on. Where are we going? I don't know. Okay. We talked about SKUs, Utah, lots of options, deer options.

I have to add for people. So, we started doing optics, and now we're calling hunt SKUs. No. I don't know. If you don't know what a SKU is. Yeah, go ahead. There's a product SKU that means this is that product. The UPC code. Yes. Black and white. I like it. Scannable thing. Hunt SKUs. I just love the hunt SKUs because there's so many options to partake in and a view and analyze and consider applying for. So, anyway. And wouldn't you agree? I love it. SKUs. So, Bronson, let's talk about the permit recommendations for Utah. And John had some questions. Things like that. Did you, John? So, I am a little bit disgusted that we talked about Pine Valley specifically. I'm just a little disgusted that even our recommendation down here in the south, it felt like there was a 90% opinion, public opinion, that we should leave the tag numbers where they were, at least not increase them.

And they went with the regular recommendation of increasing them a large portion, percentage-wise, Bronson. Yeah, is that where your question comes in, John? Yes. Well, so, I missed the podcast where you guys talked about a lot of the changes coming and, you know, the discussion on technology, the discussion on primitive weapons. And there were a couple of overall themes I just wanted to ask about. And it kind of felt like some inferences that the state, what they need more revenue. Or to maintain. Or to maintain. And I just wanted to see, what's the bottom line? You know, are they, okay, we need to come up with a way to issue more tags to get more revenue, yet we need to conserve the resource, so we need to figure out how to make unsuccessful hunts. No. No. You know what I mean? Like, what is that? If you limit technology and you curtail harvest a little bit because of that,

you could issue more tags and allow more people to be out on the landscape enjoying hunting. But that means unsuccessfully. Right. Yes.

You can't just continue to increase efficacy of hunters by adding technology, guns, everything else, and not have a consequence at some point of reducing tags because you're killing too many. Right. You'd have to reduce tags. You can't kill too many. Let's take it to the other extreme and say, that tag, you were guaranteed an animal because you drew. Right. You have 365 days. Yes. Go until you kill one. You don't care how it dies. So in that. Go until you kill one. In that case, you have to. So that would be the opposite end of the spectrum. You'd have to really. That entitles you to an animal. You'd have to decrease how many of those you gave out. You wouldn't put anybody on the landscape. Right. Well, I mean, you'd put five or whatever you actually wanted to kill. And so is that fun? So, no, I'm not saying whether it's fun or not.

What I'm getting at is, what are the drivers behind the needs? Is it we really need more revenue or we need to get people, you know, cashing out? Increasing opportunity and maintaining quality to a certain acceptable level. That's hard to define. And it's different for general season deer than it is for limited entry elk, limited entry deer once in a lifetime, you know, which have whole different standards for them that, hey, I want to feel like this is, I'm by myself. You know, there's older age, there's a bunch of maybe animals to choose from, you know, versus, okay, limited entry elk, which we're pushing the envelope with age objectives, population objectives, weapons, SKUs now from August to December. SKUs. And you're trying to maximize as many people as can partake in hunting those animals. And still have.

And still have a pretty good quality and not have quality diminished dramatically year by year because that's the, that's what you're not, you're trying to avoid that. And something you're proud of. Yeah. You know, and so then they throw in the spike hunters to allow people to just be able to go harvest animals. Right, just be in there. And, but yet still have some game animals they're proud of. A lot of weapon types, season dates, those kinds of things. Over time, you can gauge harvest success for the most part. A lot of times you rarely don't see a 70% and a 20%, a 70% or 20, you know, oftentimes it'll eventually kind of even out a little bit. So they, they're trying to be able to keep that harvest because they want to be able to keep that harvest, but allow more permits. And so that's why you, you, you saw with Utah when they changed all their elk management

plan stuff to different weapon types, adjusted some season dates because you went from a hundred percent success in a rifle season, right smack in the middle of the rut to they bumped them down to a mid season rifle hunt, which they're like a 65% success on those with just some later dates, those kinds of things. So they're allowed, they're able to give a few more tags during this timeframe with this weapon, because the success is less so they can allow more. And maybe satisfy the quote trophy hunters a little bit too, is because we're not so hard on just the top tier of game animals. So we can work, we as a division are allowing a bunch of people to go out. We are selling a bunch of tags, but then we're also pacifying Adam or Jason or whoever else that really wants, you know, trophies, so to speak. Cause I mean, there's a balance.

We shouldn't all just be trophy hunters and all just want trophy hunting in every single unit. And all just want meat, meat, meat only. Right. So there's this, there's this balance in that. And there's a social, there's a biological, biological way to manage and then mixed with social. And then where does that meet? Yeah. And it's a lot more complicated than I'm, that I'm really asking. But in some cases it feels like nobody wants to increase tags in a certain area. Right. But yet they do. So there's gotta be a driver behind it. If it's revenue, then I would rather they just come out and say, look, we're short on revenue. We need more revenue. You know what I mean? If it's something else. We've got 1,400 programs that generate revenue, dedicated hunter hours, whatever, all of these different things. And they're all earmarked and whatnot.

And in my opinion, just like your own personal budget or my personal budget, you learn how to live on that budget. You take it to the full length and you don't want that budget cut. You feel like you can't live within cut budgets at your house or, or in a division or in the government or whatever. And so you just do everything you can to maintain that or increase that. So at some point, even though nobody wants to increase, you know, tags in a certain area, you're going to anyway, just for the budget. Well, if you can't, some tags have to somehow justify that too. Meaning within a management plan guideline, you have, in this case, maybe buck to doe ratio or things like that and anticipated fawn recruitment this year of yearling bucks. And that's, that's largely, frankly, that was my biggest beef. But it's, they're largely based on the increase on yearling buck, the anticipated yearling

buck crop. Yeah. And that's based off of an overall population objective number. How many does are in that population? How much, what the doe fawn ratio is. We're having 85, 95% survival, which they have from a lot of color data. And then, okay, we, you know, 50, 50 ratio of fawns and bucks where you feel like this is how many yearling bucks we're recruiting into this population on this unit this year. And therefore, we feel like the buck to doe ratio will increase because of that. And that's part of the problem I have. It's still based on your overall population objective estimate that you have. If that's way overinflated, you're also overinflating the estimated number of yearning bucks that are going to be coming into the population this year. And therefore, overestimating how many tags you can be given. Yeah.

And some of them are contending that, you know, when you ask them what our carrying capacity is that a unit can handle, they're like saying, well, we are there because what's there is what's there. And these are the factors we've been dealt with for the last 10 years. Droughts and winter and all these kinds of things. And so, I don't know. No, I don't think any of us would argue that we would all like to see permits increased, honestly. It's a general season unit, and that's what it is. Yes, there's limited entry units where we could argue and say, yeah, that maintains or should be where it's at. It's a different experience. But a general season unit, I look back on those units when they had, several of these units had several thousand more tags than what they have available now. It was because we had the deer there to hunt them.

I think that's to quantify what you initially said, we all want them to increase. I don't want to see them increased right now, but when we can handle it. But we don't want to see it right now because we're lacking thousands and thousands of deer that were there four years ago before the drought. Not very long ago. 2016 to 19. When you could justifiably have tons of tags, there was giants killed too. And I think that's the heart of my question. If everybody, and maybe the division has a different opinion, but everybody thinks we don't have the deer to justify the tag. 90% are people. That's kind of what it is. So why are we still increasing tags? Yeah, exactly. Those are questions. So it's got to be revenue. At least that's where my mind goes. Well, and some of them, they do not like trophy hunters in large part.

In a lot of departments, they want to manage for just the masses to go out and be able to hunt. And there's justification for that too. But a lot of departments, not just ours, a lot of departments don't like trophy hunters. They don't, you know, because we're never satisfied. You know what I mean? We always can be better or whatever. But I have a hard time when we have representatives that represent the public that go with tag increases such as this Pine Valley. They go with that when they know good and well they've had emails, phone calls, and how many people stood up? 80 or 90% of the people in the room are all that said, no, I don't want that to increase or to the rate that it's being proposed. It's sometimes those public meetings, I guess the only thing I can say is things get messy. Things get forgotten. One person gets up and says something and it kind of can sway. It resonates.

You know, it's just, it's a weird dynamic. Because the other thing was though, to their credit, they did cut a significant amount of permits off of a bunch of other units. But it was on units where there was like an increase of 100 tags or an increase of, you know. Right. So collectively they cut, they agreed to cut a lot of tags. There was only one person that stood up for Southwest Desert and they went back and went against the division recommendation on that. Yeah. Well, there was some other influencing factors. Yeah. But yeah, I'm just glad. I was worried at first when John was talking that he'd seen the invoice for those books we ordered, the Navajo Code Talkers for Dummies books we ordered.

Okay. So this is for the technology. Let's dive into that. I was just worried he'd seen that. You got to give a little more background. I was worried he'd seen that invoice. That's where you're going. Maybe we have a weekly theme of here's some new vernacular to throw out there on your hunting party. Should we just go around table right now and throw out some options? So we got to give a little background. I'm going to start. What you give the background? Well, I just think basically we're looking at technology here in Utah and we've had a technology committee. We've aired this out on the podcast. It's ad nauseum. But basically, you know, do we use radios or not for stalking? You know what I mean? Or whatever. And then define what stalking is. And there's a lot of gray area. And that's what's frustrating the public. It's scaring some people. And it is.

Call somebody and say, I got a big buck over here. You can do that and then get over there. Okay. So Arizona and in part the laws and people being prosecuted for, I heard there was a buck over here on this part of the unit. So I'd gotten my truck and drove down gravel county roads to get closer to the buck. You pursued that animal with the truck. Okay. So there's cases. There's cases with that. Even though it's ridiculous. So it's ridiculous. But it actually sees court. When does it start? Where does the sock start? For us to think that there's gray areas and that we potentially maybe issued citations or whoever. We as the public. We. Not me. We as a group of hunters might have to defend ourselves in court to that. And, you know, the division can say, come on, anybody in their right mind wouldn't issue a citation for that. No, you don't. Well, we don't go on that. No. They are.

If the law is written like it's. It can be interpreted that way by somebody and not by another. There's an elk over in Hamlin Valley and you're in Pine Valley. Or you drive to Hamlin Valley. You know what I mean? I'm at my house and I call you and I say, dude, I got a big buck out here bedded on a tree. Get out here. Yeah. You could interpret that. And it's not far fetched because we've seen where guys have been issued citations for that because they have been on a watch list or whatever. And you get out to me and pull up next to my truck and it's within range. You get out of your truck and shoot from right there. And it depends on how it's interpreted. Like when the law reads this, you pursued that, you left your house and you went. Or you're not at your house. You're just within the unit. And you said, come over here. Come to me right here. Say, look right here. The spine scope. Right.

You lay down and you smash the buck. That's right. Where did the stock start? And like you guys have said, we've used radios. We were talking about it in the office. We've used radios for 30 years. Like when is that? They're still encouraging. When is that a .30-06 principle is, well, we've always had rifles. You can't go away from rifles. We've always had them. Like we've always had radios. What is it? What's the new age technology that's bothering everybody? The Garmin sight or whatever. The thermal, new tactics, whatever. Baiting, you know, things like that. And so anyway, it's hard when you bring up subjects like that. It's got to be very easy because, yeah, for you to say one thing in a rack meeting that that's not the intent. But then when it gets out there on the field and the officer's really upset because he thinks, you know, it's bull crap that you called your buddy.

Four ridges over and he got to you and you're sitting there watching a deer and he's laid down and smashed the buck. And so he gives you a ticket and says, well, let's let the lawyers and judge figure it out. And now I got to fight that. You know what I mean? And all of a sudden you're like, really? But is that really the biggest issue? Exactly. I mean, that's my. Go ahead. I don't know. I just. Dive into it, Devin. Utah can't make a rule that is black and white right and wrong. Right. They can't do it. We allow cameras. Yes. If you're just out there to see a starling and you want to see it in its natural habitat. Or if you're not hunting. There's so much gray area. Or if you're a landowner now, it's okay. What if my kid never sees a bugling bull, but then on video mode, my camera captures a bugling bull. He got to partake in that. And I radioed him and I forgot I can't use that.

I had to call him my cell phone. I mean. Yeah. I don't know. It's going to. I don't want to. I just would hate to see future hunters be scared to hunt because they're so paranoid. Well, it's the most regulated professional sport there is. Yeah. And I just. I don't know. If you're going to make a rule, make it black and white. But we are all for giving the game animal. Like, honestly, everybody knows our position. We are all for giving game animals a chance to live. Like, it's not. No secret that we think. We've been advocates. You know. Take scopes off muzzle loaders or something like that. And don't meet in the middle of the four power that has a turret. And don't let people use crossbows that aren't really. That are totally capable of using a regular bow. Yeah. Yeah. Don't approve somebody that just tweaked their, you know, was doing crossfit, tweaked their

shoulder that year and got a crossbow. Or had a friend that signed off for them. And it's happening. I feel like there's much bigger problems. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, like, nobody has brought up the fact, like, you look at Nevada, who has agricultural fields, landowners. Oh, yeah. They get compensated. They're happy. No. You have people in Utah. So, I have a neighbor, a guy I know, saw some bucks one day. And I was talking to him about it. And he said, oh, there's no deer left there. I'm like, oh, I saw some deer. He said, oh, wait, last year we killed like 60 or 70 does. Like, these are problems no one's talking about. You know, we're talking about 100 tag. No, right here in the valley. All around. He said, oh, we killed like 65 or 70 does last year. Yeah, but the division, a lot of them are scared of landowners. So, they don't want to go sight the guy for killing 60.

But, honestly, the state owns the wildlife. They shouldn't be allowed to just go smash them. How many? They, we talk about buck numbers and all these tag cuts. But, for me, I'm like, you don't see as many deer. And we're out there planting grass and buck brush. And right down the road, they smash 70 does. Like, what the heck are we doing? All while we think the radio is going to save. Yes, that's my thing. Like, we're talking, it's like trying to solve a homeless problem when we're talking about, you know, it's, you got to talk about, I don't know, the big picture to me. And that's like nobody, I haven't heard one person bring that up for landowners and farms. And, Josh, you know all about that. A lot of it, they don't know how to fix it. Yeah. You got to fight the landowners. I'd rather be talking about that than two-way radios, personally.

And I think with the technology for me, part of it is my, you know, deep mistrust and hate for government. Well, John doesn't want any rules and regulations whatsoever. That's not true. It's not true. But on one side of it, it's hard for me to have all these rules that are hard to enforce. That, you know, that are just up in the air. And anyway, with the radios, your grandma can't use them. Your point is it's no different than ethics. We all have a different set of them. Yeah. And on one side of it, it's like, well, you're just trying to make everyone less effective. Cut tag numbers. And, you know, don't worry about some of them. And I believe there's a media, I mean, on the flip side of that. Like, yeah, we don't just, it goes back to the you were issued a tag, not the given right to kill an animal whenever you want for the next year.

You know, so like you would have to issue a lot less tags and you can't function. No, and I agree, but some of them I just think it's hard to enforce. And it's difficult. Like there's different situations where you can use a radio, but in this situation you can't use a radio. And it's up to the officer, you know, like pursuing game. You can get closer to it in your truck and that's against the law in these situations. But don't drive above watt RPMs getting there quickly, right, Jason? That's kind of where people are in trouble. There's no line. Who's looking at the RPMs? Who's looking at the RPMs, you know? Especially on an animal. Only me. Especially on an animal. Nobody else can see it. It's up to interpretation where I was at. Well, precedence has been set with some of these things, too, like Arizona. You get caught with a camera there, what happens to you? Oh. Oh.

A guy lost his hunting privileges for life over a cellular case. Yes. New Mexico, scopes, no scopes. Done. Who knows? It's so plain. The line is drawn. It's black and white. But we don't have the guts to do it. We don't. We can't. Nevada. Nevada's clean. Same thing. We even relaxed Utah's trail camera laws this year. Yeah. Relaxed them. It was naughty last year. Now you can do it. Private landowners can do it. Private landowners can do it in Utah. Well, John, are you aware of the rule they made about the Peterson law? That's the Peterson law. Let's read. Whoa. I love this. Read it. Let's read the rule. Okay. John reserves the right to edit. We should do this on every podcast to have an obscure rule reading. For John. We call it the John law. This one was specific. It's in blue, so it's added to the rule. It's added. Oh, wow.

They may have listened to the podcast and thought maybe this would be an issue. No. This is from rule 657-5. What state? This is Utah. Subsection B. Utah? Yes. Okay. For the purpose of this subsection, making a reasonable effort shall include a person physically going over to the nearest location where the big game animal was when the person attempted to take the big game animal in order to search for any sign of big game animal. The big game animal was wounded or killed and take a big game animal in possession or properly of that rule. Thus. In case you didn't learn that in Hunter's Ed. Let's say, John, let's just say you're by yourself. You're out hunting somewhere. Mm-hmm. He's never by himself. May end up firing a rounder, 10. And, uh. Whoa. That was by myself. Ouch. Ouch. You physically. And you were in Gunnison. And let's say that buck. Across.

Let's say that buck's, like, used a span of a 500-yard side of the ridge in order between the first shot and 10. You need to physically walk over to. Every time that buck was standing during that escapade and check for blood. And there was snow on the ground. Yeah. Well, and. Oh, man. That's also my problem. It's like, we've all shot at an animal. And then we get over there. And it's hard to tell exactly where he was standing. Yeah. And so you could have an officer that's like, you were 15 feet away from where he was standing. What is the word? You're a reasonable effort. I think what he's saying. Yeah. A reasonable effort. So you've got to walk over. I think these rules are for idiots, man. Our own people. Isn't that common sense? It is common sense. It is common sense. It is. It is, Devin. But have you seen it? Oh. You've seen it. I've seen it.

You've seen it where they lob shots and they drive away. Never even walk. Never walk over there. Yeah. I've seen people kill deer and they're leaving. And I said, dude, I'm pretty sure you hit this deer. And all of a sudden, guess what? 30 yards away, blood everywhere. And there's the buck. And I think that's the point. To the DWR credit or whoever on the board or whatever, nobody wants to make that stupid freaking rule. I know. It's unfortunate that a rule has to be made. What do you do? We've all witnessed it. Yeah. But you could make a rule about everything. You know, that's my point. I get it. I don't know. We've got problems. This is what I think should happen. You go over there and find a dead deer like you did. And then they freaking get cited for wanton waste of wildlife or whatever. And we freaking throw the book out of felonies.

And if you were to really go to the extent of the law on some of those things where there was blatant disregard, and we followed through with it, people might think twice. It does get old. Then that would fix it. Yeah. That I totally agree with. The other thing that you hear a lot, too, about is people saying, well, we're going to police ourselves, which I think as hunters we probably should. But it's also not capable. It's not our responsibility. And I've seen instances. I remember when I was a game warden. You mean for you to police a fellow hunter? Yes. And I had seen some instances where a guy had called us when I was a game warden a million years ago. And we went to go investigate. It was a help stop poaching call. And he called it in on the official hotline or whatever. Well, I go up to meet him. And I meet him. And he says, hey, this buck got up. And these guys went over there.

They shot it. They didn't tag it. The deer's still laying over there. And I'm like, OK, this is money. You know, this is going to be easy. And I go, and he's like, it's laying under that tree right over there. And I go walking over there. There was no deer there. And I'm like, which tree did you see? Nothing here. Yeah. And I'm like, what in the world? And he left. And I was just looking. I looked around for three or four hours. There was never a deer there. Basically, what had happened, this guy, there was some sort of argument on the hillside of some kind. These hunters got into a fight. Somebody probably shot a buck, something like that. There was no evidence that a buck even got shot. I have no idea what happened. But I went then. And I knew who the guy was. Because he's camped right down there. So I go down there, camp, try and have to grill them.

And they're like, no, we went over there and sat down and had lunch. Like, I don't know. But this guy saw them gutting a buck and leaving it. They were over there sitting having lunch. He just threw them under the bus. And it was just like, yeah, it was the weirdest thing. And so we ended up going back and citing that kid for giving a false police report. Oh, nice. You're kind of, ooh. I like that. I like it. You're mean, dude. No, I like that. But it was just like, what are you doing? And it turns out the kid, and talking to him, and he wasn't a kid. He was like a 20-something-year-old man. But it turns out after talking to him, that's why he got a ticket. Because he turns out, yeah, I actually really didn't see that. I just assumed that's what they were doing. Because the buck jumped him, was over there. I'm going to bill you for the last five hours of my work. Yeah.

And it was like, you're accusing these guys of a third-degree felony. So that's the part that gets a little scary when you try to police. So that's what's going to be scary is if you have a radio. Because they're telling you to have your radio. Have your phone. Use it. It's for safety sakes. Continue to use it. Well, what if you're just talking to somebody on the phone about something else, completely different, whatever. Somebody sees you and turns you in. And then you kill a deer just by the jump one and kill it. And the guy phone scoped. Yeah. And he's like, oh, he definitely was on the phone or on the radio. It could get so messy, you know. It's just hard. I don't know. But is that our biggest problem? No. Yes. Exactly. That's my point. We're out here stacking up hundreds of does that touch a field for a month out of the year. Yeah. That's what we're talking about. That's radios.

That's what we're going to practice. Every day, the five new does I see going up over the mountain that are dead right now. I like the John Law. That's a new section. How about this? What if you're alone? And I've done this. What if you're alone? And you kill a buck or you shoot at a buck and you film it. And you watch you shank a shot. Well, you watch where it hits. By 12 feet. Whatever. Your turret's off. A tree runs away. Beds down. Gets up. Goes to get shot by somebody else. Whatever happens. And you don't go look because you already know. You violated that law. You're going to jail. Yeah. Well, maybe not jail. And then you'd have to prove. Some of you gameys I heard take you to jail for dumb stuff. There's just so many variables. If you read that, does it say make a reasonable effort? Do you have to physically visit? Read that again. That's what I'm saying.

Or can you look at video of the show? Now I know. You need to walk physically. Now I know I missed. Now when I'm walking back. It uses the word shall. Physically shall. Shall. Or you may. You will. It making a reasonable effort shall include. So you have to include. A person shall physically. Physically. A person physically going to the nearest location. You shouldn't have to make rules like that. Or you got four people behind you. They're like, dude, you just missed by 12 feet to the east. Yeah. Well. You still got to go down. And I guess whatever. Yeah. Yeah. But. Burgers have fragments. Let the judges and lawyers figure it out. Right. Well. And you talk about police. Hunters. Policing hunters. Burgers have fragments. Yeah. They do. And you never know where those fragments end up. And I just think there's just. Like. Why. We're all frustrated with this stuff.

But then I also see the flip side of it. We've. So many hunters aren't. Don't even deserve. Yeah. To be called a hunter. You know. And. And we've seen it. Time and time again. Devin. You're. You're a guy walking away. Deer didn't go 30 yards. Yeah. Go 30 yards. There was his bed. There was blood. Probably about 20 yards. Yeah. You know. I mean. And then he would have went and shanked another one. You know. You can see it both ways. So. Anyway. Kind of. Kind of crazy. But. Yeah. I just think. Sometimes. I just want the local representatives to represent the majority of the public. That's what your job is to do. You know. You represent the public. And so. Kind of. Kind of frustrated. All right. Well. Anyway. That's just a little bit. A little bit of something. The fun parts are. What. What can we do to make a difference? Don't shoot a dink. Unless you want a dink. If you want a dink. Fine.

If not. Send your tag into. Muleys matter. Muleys lives matter. 2023 tag. 2023. And that mule. There's going to be all kinds of colors. It's going to be fun. It's going to be fun. I'm so excited about it. It's going to be a party. It's going to be awesome. We're going to have. Pizza. Come on. Pizza. Maybe. Maybe. Why not? Food. We'll just leave it. Lots of food. A variety of food. Yeah. Exactly. There'll be food and beverage. Poor. John. John. You can start saving now. It's a tax write off. Tax write off. Remember? You got to advertise for my business. John. I saw. We looked up your draw results in New Mexico. Yes. You have a huge refund coming. That's true. Red, red, red. We will keep 500 of that. Okay? It's already prepaid. And you get to pick the bin that goes towards. Remember? Yep. Dose, youth, bombs on moms, general, or limited draw.

Any y'all out there that want to match my donation, feel free. Hey. Maybe we can do this like the federal Pittman-Robertson matching. Let's do it. No. What do you mean? Somebody match it. You're saying Epic's going to match any and all cash donations. Misinterpreted. I'm just saying, let's turn it into that. We'll put ours. Who's going to match? Let's do it. I just threw that out there. Pittman what? Pittman what? Pittman. Robinson. It's like PR money, but federal money gets – state dollars get matched with PR dollars. And I'm thinking he's going down the road of you donating Epic matches. No. I already donated you match. Listener. We've donated a bunch. I mean, we've got, you know, 10 Gs or something already on the table. Oh, at least. From Epic. Bow, rifle. Trail cameras. Trail contacts. Cash. Cash. Cash title. Cash titles. And more to come.

More to come because, quite frankly, we believe in it. It's going to be – it's fun to do. It is going to be fun. Jeez, it's fun. We like giving stuff away. Love this one. So, anyway, no cost to enter. Basically, just get us your tag. Get it here. You can drive it here. Okay? If it's here by November 30th at 1159. Right. Yeah. Right. All right, guys. I think we've vetted it out plenty. We've got a lot of draw results. We've got a lot of application deadlines coming up, too. And we're cranking like it's our freaking job. It's so fun to talk to everybody, help people develop plans and strategies. I think that's what we were going to is we were talking about SKUs. And some of the SKUs, we just don't have enough paper to print on them. They're in the back of our mind of this could be a great option.

Not proven, but it could be a great option because of something we know or just a feeling, gut feeling we have. I have a lot of those gut feelings, and those end up in unpunched tags, guys. Tag soup. Yeah. Well, another one of those tag soup tags was drawn the other day. Maybe run through the deadlines real quick. Yeah. The next week. Utah the 27th. Rattle them off, Bronson. You got it. This is from the top of my head, which could get scary. Utah the 27th of April. It's due. If you miss it, they are going to have a points-only period in June. But for tags and hunts, SKUs, April 27th. I like it. You've got to have that in. April 30th is going to be the Idaho moose, sheep, and goat deadline. May 1st, Montana moose, sheep, goat, bison deadline. May 10th, Nevada. All species deadline. My favorite.

The one thing about Nevada is, you know, we're talking about 70-something thousand tags here in Utah. Yeah, the terrain's vastly different. I totally get it. Habitat and all of those things. Moisture, rainfall, yada, yada, yada, yada. We're talking 14,000 total deer and antelope tags issued statewide. They're running a budget on that. And we're winding about 71,000. It used to be 95,000. Whatever, right? Hey, and guess what? The people who own land out there, they want deer on their fields. Just saying. Because for every 50 deer they count, they get a tag. And they can count them any time of the year. In theory, you count them in November in large portion of the landowners over there. Yeah, which is crazy. In the dormant period, there's no damage. I mean, a little bit. But they do get some damage in the summer. They're not technically counting in the summer, whatever.

They'll count whenever they want to count. Whenever the highest numbers are in their field. Some people do count early. But a lot of them count late. And so anyway, yeah, they do. They get compensated for damage, potential damage, possible damage, whatever. And the private funds, they get to sell them on the open market. They're not like Idaho where you can't sell a tag, but you can sell rights and other things. So you get to sell them on the open market. And private funds get to take care of depredating animals. That's kind of cool, right? They're happy. Yeah. Your point about Nevada being that there's hardly any tags. That's why you like Nevada. Yeah, let's go back to that. You're generally by yourself in Nevada. I like that. But then also, Bronson, we've looked through all those tag numbers, the new tag numbers for 2023. And in a lot of cases, they're single digits. Deer is like elk.

Can't even apply as a group in a lot of places. Yeah, you can't apply as a group, even though legally you can. They're deer, but you should. There's no tags. There's one tag or two. It's unbelievable. I've never seen quotas being slashed in places like we're seeing now in Nevada to the point it is.

Antelope quotas across Wyoming. Single year. It's sobering. Yeah, it's sobering. But at the same time, kudos to NDAW. Kudos to the board, you know, for answering the call. You've got to do what you've got to do. If it's not there, it's not there. But the few people that do have tags, what a world-class experience they're going to have on a year like this, especially when we're talking mule deer. Yeah. You know, elk, they've always got world-class animals, it feels like. And on dry years, a lot of the outfitters would contend it's even better quality-wise. Just, you know, because they change what they feed on and whatnot. So anyway, but, you know, there's a lot of theories behind that. But anyway, just interesting. It's kind of, it's fun. It's a lot of fun. A lot of deadlines coming up in the next two weeks.

And then the two weeks after that, you're going to see an epic wave of draw results. From May 15th to the end, it's like fast and furious. Every day or two, there's a new state going to come out. And here at Epic Outdoors, we're here to help you make the most of those tags. We have a member draw success list where we can give you a list of members who've hunted that particular tag in the past. They're always willing to help you because it's hard to get those tags. Not like they're, you know, you're competing with them in their backyard per se. And then also Devin, Adam and I, Wyatt, Josh, everybody can help you find an outfit or two. And make the most of it if you want to go that route. So a lot of options. And a lot of these units, a good chunk of a lot of these units we have personal knowledge in. And we were always very, very willing to help guys. We want to see you succeed.

On the outfitter note, Devin mentioned something that, you know, they book up quick after the draw, the good ones. And so be quick to call us and don't, you know, don't wait forever. You know, let's say you draw a once in a lifetime tag and you want to make the most of it. You decide, okay, I'm going to go outfitted on this tag. You may not be able to find an outfitter or a good one because you wait too long to give us a call. And investigate some good outfitters. If you're not a member of Epic Outdoors, you should be. Get on epicoutdoors.com. It's $150 a year. You get a publication nine times a year. It's monthly, December through June, talking about all the states that we're talking about. Drawing odds, kill percentages, how the states work. And as well as being able to call in and visit with us about various things, book hunts with guaranteed tags. May not even be draw tag stuff.

And so it's a very involved membership, you know, service-based, service-oriented. And then we also can help you apply. If there's a separate service, we'll actually apply you. And then if you need optics, there's no better optics pricing out there. Plain and simple. Give us a holler. Epic Optics. You can just give us a holler. Even if you're not a member, we'll definitely visit with you about things, options and whatnot. Josh, you can attest to all that. You deal with a lot of optics calls. Yeah. Yeah, we do. Just talked to a guy a little bit about it yesterday, joining. And he decided that the ability for us to help him out on some stuff with his optics was well worth the cost of joining a membership. A couple times over. Yeah. Saving hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dollars. Yep. And so, anyway, something we're proud of. Again, we like to do it. We like it.

So, all right, everybody. I don't know what else to say. Bronson had to leave. He had a coughing attack. I was going to pat him on the back, but I was a little worried it might. He must have. He inhaled some white monster, maybe. He doesn't have a drink. That's his problem. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. He needs a drink. He'll be all right. All right. But, anyway, everybody out there, if you're needing some help, let us know. We're happy to help you. We want to thank Kinetrek Boots. What a great company they are. Been with us since inception. W-W-W dot Kinetrek dot com. K-E-N-E-T-R-E-K dot com. 1-800-232-6064. They sell boots and a wide variety of products. Anything you need help. Jim Wengem, super good guy, founder, and he just kills it. So, we just appreciate their support. Hundreds of SKUs. Love to be working with them.

Yeah, we talked a little bit about Thompson Long Range a little bit as being kind of a sponsor of Muley's Matter. Then, give those guys a call up there. They can help you out. Get you a good rifle. Get you shooting. Yeah, they're going to help you be effective. They're awesome. And good hunters and personal friends. So, we appreciate everybody at Thompson Long Range. If you'd like to even just check them out, go on our YouTube page. You know, YouTube and search Epic Outdoors. And we've got a couple of really great videos that explain what that school is like and their rifles and their system. So, go check that out. Perfect. We'll give a shout out to Kuyu as well, Ultralight Hunting. I think, Josh, you're going to be down there at an event, maybe? Yeah. May 20th. We're going to actually, Josh and I in Bronson, and maybe a few others of us. Maybe Devin? California? Maybe. I don't know.

We've got deadlines. What do you mean? Magazines. You don't want to be surrounded by the dims? I don't need, well, hey, as long as I'm with my battle buddies, you guys, I'll go. But I'm not going alone. We got each other's back. I don't know, though. They kind of take your arms at the border.

Yeah, but check your trucks before you go. Exactly. But anyways, you guys will be down there. They're a great company, great people. We work with them all the time. So, QU.com, you can go out there. They sell a lot, wide variety of products. Again, tents, sleeping bags, gear, clothing. Backpacks. All kinds of stuff. Boots. I mean, good people. We appreciate Brendan and Justin and everybody there. They support us here at Epic Outdoors, and we support the heck out of those guys and appreciate them. Like you said, we will be out there doing kind of a mule deer seminar, hunting in general, and anything and everything. We'll just talk about what we want. It's not something we're out there to generate revenue or anything. It's just something to support them. They asked us to show up, and we won't have a booth. But it's not going to be giant. There'll be several hundred people there, I'm sure.

And we'll just be able to talk about mule deer, something we love. May 20th, I believe is when it is. May 20th, yep. They have the KU headquarters in Dixon. Yeah, it's pretty awesome. We appreciate the invite. We'll absolutely be there. And go from there. All right, everybody. It's way past our lunchtime. I can't believe we keep coming in here saying this is going to be a short podcast. I'm getting hangry. When is this ever going to be a short podcast? It's not. We get on rants. Oh, we get on rants. But anyway, all right, everybody. Enjoy your lunches, and have a great weekend. The best things in life are often free. And that includes Vortex Nation. With one click, you can join thousands of hunting, shooting, and outdoor fanatics brought together by a shared passion for chasing life's wild moments.

Start your adventure today by signing up for the Vortex Nation newsletter for access to exclusive content, first look at new product launches, expert tips and tactics, and subscriber-only offers. Head to join.vtxnation.com to sign up today. We'd like to thank all of our sponsors here at Epic Outdoors. For top-of-the-line hunting, clothing, and apparel in every environment, visit underarmor.com. We'd like to thank Under Armour for being our title sponsor and making this podcast happen. Visit our website, epicoutdoors.com, for discount codes to Under Armour hunting apparel. Handcrafted, quality, precision rifles from start to finish. Red Rock Precision is one of our sponsors, and many of our staff uses Red Rock rifles. Visit redrockprecision.com to find out more.

If you're in the market for a hunting property, our sponsor at St. James Sporting Properties specialize in premier hunting properties throughout the West. Check out available hunting properties at stjamessportingproperties.com. Good-looking, comfortable camo describes Kuyu. The new bush pants from Kuyu keep your legs comfortable while walking through the thorns and bristles. Visit kuyu.com for sizing and prices. Kenetrek makes great boots for any situation. Most sheep hunters in the high, rocky altitudes use these boots to keep their ankles in check on the rough terrain. Visit kenetrek.com to learn more. We at Epic Outdoors are a fierce firearms dealer and have many popular models in stock and ready to ship. Call us if you would like help deciding which options are right for you. Fierce Long Range Rifles are a great rifle and many of our employees here use them.

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Call us today to visit about the available optics we have and what would be right for you. Or visit epicoptics.com. For only $150 a year, you get nine issues of the Epic Outdoors magazine and unlimited access to our hunt consultants, as well as access to our verified research website. To see all the other member benefits, visit epicoutdoors.com. If you hunt multiple states, our services are essential. The Epic Outdoors License Application Service is for you. If you ever miss deadlines or would like help developing your long, medium, and short-term license application goals, give us a call today at 435-263-0777 to learn more.