EP 280: Mule Deer Year, Where are You Utah, and Stories You Won't Believe

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Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson coming at you from Southern Utah. We're pretty excited, Bronson. There's a lot of things happening. We've got tags going to be coming out. We know we're going to draw, right? Right? Positive thinking? I've said that pretty a lot, and it's almost June. It hasn't worked. I just want one of them Himalayan snowcocks. That's what I want. I think you can just buy those OTC, which is about what we're going to have to do. I've been kind of Googling them. Have you? There in Nevada. Yeah, I want one. I'm a big bird connoisseur. Well, you have at it, boss. I've got other things to do, places to be. Hey, I don't know. It's just something interesting. It is. You know? But no, we're super excited here. We've got draw results. Utah, where are you? Where are you? Huh? Bronson. No comment.

Bronson wants to crush them. Here in our own home state, they're holding out on us. I think they're just mad at the public because we ended up putting a little pressure to cut tags. Not us. Everybody. Everybody that's interested in deer just because of the A, drought, B, winter conditions. I mean, you name it, we've had some forces against the deer recently. Sure have. But yeah, that's about one of the last, I guess, of those big states. But Colorado should be out. Who knows? We might know Colorado results before Utah. How about that? It's kind of fun. Lots and lots happening. A lot of deadlines. What? Wyoming, May 31st for the non-resident deer and antelope, as well as resident elk on May 31st. June 1st is antelope in Montana. Okay. Honorable mention. This is a comprehensive list. Okay. You're talking about snow cocks starting off today. You're going to bring up California next.

California, June 2nd. Oh, I like it. Are you going to apply? No. And why not? Because it's 200 and something bucks for a hunting license now. Just for a hunting license. And then what does it give you? Nothing. I mean, a couple of potential, up to a couple of non-resident sheep tags, up to one total elk, one total antelope. Could be a cow toolie. Could be a non-resident, get the cow toolie tag. We are treated pretty fair on deer, but there's no big deer. So, anyway. Iowa's on the 4th of June. I think you're applying this year. Yeah, I am. I didn't know we were talking about that. Well, no, I'm just making conversation. I went a couple years ago. I do things opposite of what you should. On drought years, I hunt the heck out of stuff with landowner tags and everything. And on really good years, I go to Iowa. Why would I do that? I don't know. But, hey, it's...

End of October, 1st of November. Variety is the spice of life, I've been told. There's no mule deer seasons going on at the end of October, 1st of November. So, here I am. I know where I am, but I'll be. Sitting in a tree. I'm going to be sitting in a tree in Iowa. Okay. Call me a tree hugger. That's me. But that is the 4th. Then the 5th, we're going to have Idaho, deer, elk, and antelope. Those of you that did not apply for sheep, moose, and goat can apply there. What did you apply for? I did sheep. And I... You did not. Did not. So, you'll be in for it. I'm in. I actually already applied. So, I did sheep. And then last, but definitely not least, is Arizona Deer and Sheep. And that's going to be due the 6th. So, we're... And a bison point. And a, you know, sandhill crane. Gould's turkey, sandhill crane. Do they have anything for pheasants? Cavalina. Cavalina point. Yeah, you get a point.

Hey, how about that? No. So... Yeah, I don't know. Pretty fun. I've got certain interests and I've got certain disinterests. Pretty fun time of year. There's just a lot going on. So, if you end up with a tag, please call us. We want to know about it. We want to help you be successful or at least make some plans. So, we work with great outfitters. Yep. And we've got a memorial weekend coming up. So, hopefully, by the time you listen to this, you can... You're on your way to somewhere fun. Maybe the lake. Maybe tonight. Because this is coming out tonight, right? Yeah. Yeah, it'll be tonight. Logan doesn't waste any time. We do need to run it by Jana. Unless we're on a good behavior. Well, we just... What do you mean? Sometimes we just say dumb stuff. Do we? Well, I mean, they say we do. I think we're very intelligent. Well, we say... Everything we say is... Gospel. And respectful.

And it always has my stamp of approval, so I... But I don't know, Logan. I know your family. A Gen Z stamp of our approval is probably not what Gen is. From the Marshall household in Bynersville? Anything goes. Yeah. I say it always sounds good. Good. Well... He's a yes man. Eternal optimist. We like that, too. Just like our optimism on draw results, which hasn't come to fruition yet. Nevada had a slamming door. I mean, it was a brutal draw. Of course, we knew it was going to be, but your hopes are still high. But when the deer tags were 70% to 80% reductions over the last two, three years... Unbelievable. There's not a lot to be given out. That's what's impressive about Nevada. They're running, you know, they're kind of their goal on deer is, you know, 30 to 35 bucks per hunter does, depending on the unit and area.

And, you know, they do what it takes, and man, they're living on a shoestring budget. It's unbelievable. You know, the... I don't know. Maybe less deer tags. We should look that up. Less deer tags than any state, period. Probably. I'll bet California has 10 times as many as that. What I think's funny is there's units in New Mexico, and you know one, Unit 23. If you add up all the deer tags they issue... It's like this much as all of... Like a seventh of Nevada in one unit, and we're talking New Mexico. I don't know. I just... A little bit of shout out there to Nevada for being willing to cut tags. You know, there's kind of a sentiment out there among the residents that it's been a long time coming, and tag cuts were slow to come, and so now we've got to really slash them. And so anyway, hopefully they can get things turned around. Sometimes you just can't control the weather, Bronson.

Yep. Absolutely. And I... Mother nature will trump a whole lot of things. I was always one of those, you know, growing up is, you know, I didn't under... I guess I just didn't understand the implication of weather, and some of the biologists would say, well, you know, what can we do to change wildlife? Pray for rain. And I just... I hated to hear that. It feels like you should be able to do more than that. Yeah. Control the variables you can, but man, the variables we can control aren't near what weather can do to you. I've been in a death grip, and now it's green from sea to shining sea, it feels like. I mean, across the southwest. It's... I go out each night just on a little drive. Jen's like, what are you doing? I'm like, God. Watching green. I just start... I just want... I'm getting in that habit of driving west. Yeah. What's west, Jason? Oh, two foot of grass. Okay.

What else is going to be west? Well, I don't know. I mean, maybe a big deer. Good. I like it. Good. I am so excited. I don't know why there's going to be more giant deer, and with... Per tag issue, you know, right? Percentage-wise, it's going to be unbelievable. Yeah. That's my opinion. Yep, yep. All right. So, anyway, we rattled off the deadlines. Everybody should be applying, even... I mean, if you're doing points, obviously, Wyoming, you wouldn't worry about it now. You'd do points this summer. You know, things like that. There's a few other point deadlines. Montana. You know, Bronson, we were talking about the OTC in Arizona with caps, and how... You know, we don't have an OTC tag, right? And when they were issuing them, we weren't even thinking we wanted them. And then we were like, you know, we should... Well, I wish I had one now, because it's actually a lot closer than maybe an

Idaho. Not a lot, but a fair bit closer. And we usually get an Idaho general tag. We do usually try to get one. I didn't this year. You did. I have the last couple years prior to that. Haven't always used them. I've turned them back sometimes. But that's... Tags give you options. And these gives you options. Especially if the draw year's tough. Gives you an option to go down there. Especially if you don't draw a deer tag in the Arizona draw this year. Then you can go down and start hunting, you know, some of the August and September seasons. And if you don't kill, get a hunt maybe December. And draw a line there. Or buy another one for the next year. Yeah, buy another one in December for the next year. And you're hunting bucks that were grown this year in the wet year. So we're going to be able to see antler growth. And then decide in December. And start... And it's a calendar year.

So we'll start January 1 and be able to hunt some January seasons. Yeah. You know? So... Kind of cool. Something I might rethink next year. Just to have... I mean, 300 bucks is worth... That's a valid option to just have in your pocket. Yeah. Anyway. And you can hunt archery coos, archery mule deer, whatnot. And a lot of those... So you can go on the website and see when the harvest limits, the quotas, were filled. In each unit, subunits around the state. And some of them didn't even fill. No. So, yeah, there was some that filled early. And, you know, maybe there's some units that will not be available in January. There's actually a few of them. But then there are some options there for January. So kind of fun. Anyway. Well, Bronson, I was just thinking... I've talked to that Chad Roberts a little bit. You know him. He's killed a freaking giant down in southern Arizona back in the day.

Very hardcore. Interesting guy.

Desert rat. Guys like that are called desert rat. He's a desert rat. But, I mean... Very, you know, very specific on deer and sheep. He's methodical. He's gotten heavily into sheep with Eric. Eric Hunt. Guys down there. Yeah. And very methodical. Hunt specific deer. I like that. Thinking of giving him a call? Or is that next time? Yeah. No. I want to call him. I want to see what he's doing. Sometimes I want to just see what his workout routine's like. Remember, he'd be running out in the desert in 110 degree weather. You think humans aren't supposed to do that. They're not. But he does. They're not. I just want to see. I don't know. I want to see what he's doing. Anyway. See what his plans are this year. Got 245 plates on his back running out in the desert. I don't know. He could, though. He looks like a burly dude. Oh, he's a beast. Yeah.

Hello. Hey, you out jogging out in the heat yet? No. We were just adding money on you. I have two 45 plates on your back out there training right now. Somewhere in the sun. Don't you do that? Start up that routine here shortly? Or have you been doing it? Yeah, I've been here shortly. It's not hot enough yet. It's not hot enough. Who does that? What do you mean? Who does that? I guess. People like Chad. What's your routine like? Will you wait for it to be 110? Or what do you do? No. I'll start going here next couple weeks or so. I just let it get in the hundreds.

Let you really sweat. Yeah, just work my way into it. How do you do it? Are you truly waiting for it to get hot? And is that by plan? And how do you do it so you don't die of a heat stroke or something? Oh, you just hydrate the day before. Sounds easy. Slowly work into it. It's not like you go and just bomb five miles on the first day. Yeah. And then just keep pushing. I guess that's what you do when you live in. Southwest Arizona, though. It's like you can't just sit in an AC for six months. Yes, you can. Yes, you can. Well, come out what? November 1st and try to be a smash and grab, get in shape in three weeks before sheep season? November 1, it's back to cool again. I know. But you can't hibernate during all summer. So does it help you? I mean, do you feel a difference? And pretty soon you're just like, yeah, bring it. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

So if I was just to hang out in the office, you know, all summer long or before it got hot and didn't do anything outdoors, then anytime I did go outdoors, it'd be too much to handle. But if you're out and pushing your limits, you know, on a normal basis, then it's just another day. Okay. What's the desert look like? End of May here. What's it look like right now?

Central Eastern Arizona, it's really, really green.

A lot of feet on the ground. Here in Southwest Arizona, it's still pretty green, but you can tell it's starting to dry out. Better bush and stuff is starting to dry out, which I like to see.

It keeps disease down. Yeah. It keeps your animals healthy. We don't want them overly fat going into the summer. No, I mean, let's seriously talk about this a little bit because that's not what we like to see up here. So I just want to kind of get your theory behind that and then also talk about maybe when the monsoons are good for you down there in Southern Arizona. So, I mean, it's just like you or I, if we were, you know, let's just say 80 pounds overweight and went and tried to do something on a hot summer day, you wouldn't get around too good. Right. Right. You'd probably overheat and end up in the hospital. But if you're a little on the leaner side and healthier side, you can tolerate more. Yeah.

And, you know, these deer, when we have really wet winters, they'll get super fat and it doesn't, we don't really have a transition where it's like 105 degrees for a month or two and then it's hot. You know, we'll be in the 90s, low 100s, then all of a sudden it just seems like we'll get a week where we're 116 to 120 and it's consistent and the nights don't get below 100. And, I mean, they have no escape other than to lay under a tree. So if you're well insulated, you're not going to do very good. Dissipate heat. Yeah. Yeah. And so when do you see that antler growth? You know, I mean, you're a little later than everywhere else, it seems like. But when do you, you know, I guess how do we get to that fine balance of not fattening up but having great antler growth? It's pretty tricky.

Some of the, we've noticed on the deer, you know, central and a little bit further to the east, they're more moisture dependent than these desert deer are on this side of the state. Like, like, they need feed all year long. And if they don't get it, then they're doing pretty poorly. It seems like these deer, on my end of the state, have adapted to, you know, just not getting it. And they seem to do better when things are spread out and you just, you know, got enough feed out there to live off of rather than... Excess. ...staying fat all the time. Well, I like to see, you know, rain in December, January, maybe a little bit in February. It... Greens up. Greens up a little bit and they have some post-rut feed on the ground because, you know, they'll burn it completely off during the rut.

And if they can recover, you know, just recover before going into the summer, then generally the antler growth will be good. And they'll start, they'll start pushing things out pretty good, but they really won't start branching out until August in that range. So, you know, you like to see, like to see some more feed on the ground by then. That's when your monsoons is usually late July. That's usually when you're hoping that your timing is that. Usually August, early September. We may get a shower here and there in July, but not too much. Yeah. So when you get that feed and on a really good year, I mean, are you seeing swings of 40 plus inches of antler growth? Oh, yeah. Yeah. But, you know, depending on the deer, most of the times, say if we have a really bad drought and the deer go, struggle solid for a year, solid, you know, it may take two years of good weather to recover.

Because it's always body, they take care of the body first, then the horns. Well, and you've got, you're just a harsh environment. But, you know, it's not like, it's a harsh environment when it's good down there a lot of times. You know what I mean? It's a much different, you take a mountain deer and put it down there, they're dead in two weeks. Oh. Oh, for sure. Dead, dead, dead. It's his office mentality. Or you take a desert deer and put it in the mountain, they're dead in two weeks. They just got, they have to evolve where they evolve and live and rumen and body and everything else. Find balance. It's what makes mule deer more delicate than elk. You put elk on the moon, on the earth, on the sun, they live everywhere. Out in the desert, in the sagebrush, up in the pines, in the aspens. Yeah. So that's really interesting.

And so you'll see, you know, the same deer year to year could be up or down 40 inches plus. Or, I mean, is there any, you've followed specific deer and you name them. I mean, have you got any document, you know, documented. Big swingers. Yeah. Yeah.

That you put your hands on the next year or just laid eyes on the next year that was, you know, this and then he turned to this or stuff like that? Yeah. I mean, it also depends on the year that they're born on. You know, if they're born on a bad year, generally speaking, they're not going to. I mean, they're, they could be big deer, but they're not going to be genetic. Scorer monsters or anything like that. So. Who knows? How do you get another, how do we get another Chad Roberts giant?

Oh, get a lot of luck. A lot of, a lot of, a lot of the right things have to take place and he's got to escape my wrath for a few years. I mean, remember that, that deer should have never made it that long. Yeah. So we, we would have never. He accidentally made it to 295. Yeah. What was it? 295 or. Yeah. 295 and. Yeah. 7, 8, something like that. Just, just, just because he should have been dead at 250 or whatever. Yeah. 240. Yeah. So. And for, on that deer, um, first started following him, you know, as a three year old and he was probably 240, 250. And then we had a really, really bad year and. You know, he was still big non-typical, but he was 205, 206, something there, uh, in that range. And then immediately following, we had a, you know, a great year and he maybe got back to, to 220 in that range. And that's the year I shot him and he ended up getting away and living.

And then he were just really blew up. He was probably 260 the following year. And then he went darn near to 300. So. What was he a seven, six or seven then? How many years was that when you killed him? He was, he was seven when I killed him. Yeah. Did you have one of his teeth cut? Yeah. We had, we had him aged. Jeez. You knew, you knew. I mean, that's how you know how good he was at three. That's how you know. He's dead at this. Cause I want to call BS, but that's just, it's, it's the truth. We've seen it in other genetic places. Dan, three or four year old. Yeah. And, and the strip. The thing of it is, is, you know, I just never saw anything like that down here. So I had a, I could tell he was young in the face when I first, you know, started looking at him. But then he's this monstrosity that you think no way can this deer be three or four.

So at that point, you're just, is he going to make it another year? Is he going to make it another year? Cause you assume he's old. I didn't really know how old he is. Yeah. And he had a lot to give. Yeah. He took it on the chin, some dry years and regressed and came back and took a, you know, shot, came back, drew bigger. I mean. And so you got other deer like that. I mean, you know, have you looked back on that, the moisture that year? We can look back on some of this stuff. Have you looked back and, and decided which months were dry and which months were wet and just kind of map that out and how, how did that look? You know, a little bit. I've, I've watched it with other deer more than anything.

I really started paying attention, you know, after I didn't just put all the puzzle together or even think I had any idea leading up to killing him. But, you know, I, I started paying a little bit more attention afterwards. And watch another deer, how they recover and whatnot. And I still don't, obviously still don't know it all. You think you do. And then one changes your mind. Anomaly. Yep. So, but on average, you know, I just, I like to, like to have a good wet winter and then for some post rep feed and let them, let it dry out. Dry out till monsoon time. Is that, is that kind of, you know, talking about 2023, what's your vibe? How's it, you know, like it shaping up for what you just described? We're looking good. Yeah. We're looking good down here. They had, we had a good monsoon last year. Yeah. So they had, you know, they'll have substantial time recovering the bodies, you know.

Should be, never got stressed. Going into a horn growth year. So it's, it's looking really good. Of course, it's just going to, you know, depend on the weather and how it, how fast it does dry out. If the monsoon then comes this year. Yeah. Yeah. And you're in trouble. But. That's what we don't, we don't factor that in up here. Our monsoon, when it comes up here late July, August, it's, if it comes, it's too late for our deer. You know, our deer. Yeah. It just spreads them out. It spreads. Yeah. But antler growth, it doesn't, it doesn't do anything. But it has, but it has nothing to do with corn growth at that point. No. Right now we've got, if it didn't rain again from now, we're going to be good. I mean, it's so green up here right now and it's. And we're kind of in a monsoon little, it's just more just heavy clouds. It feels like Washington right now. Yeah. It's been raining.

Weird monsoony weather. Not even out of 80. Moisture. Mid 80. We have not hit 80 yet. And they just have moisture in the air. It's just. Weird. It's weird here. So we're, we've still got deer with velvet running around down here, you know, end of October, 1st, November. Yeah. Crazy. The horn's drying up, obviously, but, you know, they're still packing velvet. Some of them are. Hard to even affect that. Crazy. So, yeah, things are, things are just a little bit later. What's your, what's your opinion on the, on the over-the-counter adjustments and the harvest limits and things like that? You know, I know a lot of residents were nervous about all that and, and just, of course, change just bothers people a little bit. Yeah. But what, what's your feeling? Not just your favorite areas, just statewide, what's your feeling?

Well, I, I know, um, towards the central part of the state, it affected, you know, around Phoenix and whatnot, that those guys got shut down, you know, fairly early or a lot faster than some of them would like. Um. Is that just close to the population base, though? Like, easy places for hunters to go, is that more due to that than anything? Or do you think they had those harvest limits too low for where they should have been? Um, you know, it's hard to say. Yeah. It's really hard to say. Um, I think what happens is guys will wait until the end, end of the year and think, well, I've, I've got another tag in, you know, in, in January. Yeah. And end up just whacking a little forkier spike or something like that just to fill the tag. And that's, that's where you run into quota issues and also deer number issues. You're not given a chance for these bucks to mature.

And, uh, they're taking slim pickings right off the side of the road, you know, instead of, you know, getting out there and hunting some of the harder bucks. So I think that's where our numbers problem lies the most, um, is I don't really like to and they want to fill it. They got it. Yeah. Too many people. I'd have really liked to seeing them just do away with December altogether. Um, it eliminates that. So you don't, if you didn't kill them. I know, I know, I know people are going to cringe at me saying that, but, um, it would keep the younger deer from getting killed. I mean, if you start, if you start the year in January and with a fresh tag and you know you got all year to hunt, you're going to be a little more picky. Probably not going to shoot that spike on the side of the road. That makes sense. Well, and you can hunt them in the August, September, which are pretty common for most

of the state. You got, it's hot, but you get that chance to hunt them, but don't just view that tag as a throwaway tag in December. I'm going to clean up in December. Because I get to start over January 1 again. Yeah, because you can only kill, you can have multiple tags, but you can only kill one deer a year. Calendar year, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, if, if, if that's your deal, you know, if, if you're happy with shooting a spike or whatever, then so be it, you know, but if, if you're going to. Do it, just do it January. Call that your deer. Call that your deer for the year. Do that. Yeah. Or August. If you're going to want a big deer, eat the tag. That's an interesting take. I never thought of that. Yeah. That would definitely change things. It's different. Cause yeah, the seasons go into different years, but the harvest is by calendar year.

And if you limited the December, you wouldn't be overlapping with rifle hunters. Oh. You know what I mean? Very few. There's some coos. Yeah. The coos. The coos stuff. You know. Even a few late mule deer. Yeah. And we're playing a few, not widespread, but a few. Yeah. Well, Chad, you, uh, you know, you're, you're a trophy hunter, but you proved you still got it.

He smashed a deer with a bow, sent me things. I still got it. I still got it. Tell us about that a little bit. Sometimes you do need to kill, like you need to kill. And I'm, I'm in that boat. I've been a little too picky, a little too long. And that, and that was, you know, I, I knew it was going to be a great year or, you know, setting up to be a great year. Um, I went out and saw a good buck that I, you know, I, I've known for a while. Um, he's, he kind of went downhill a little bit, but I was sitting out there by myself and went, you know, that's been a while since I'm going to smash this since I've stroked one. And so I, you know, went down there and put a stock on him and it worked out and I was, I was happy, you know, and that's, but that's the beginning of the year. And, you know, I've, I've killed big deer, but you know, I didn't wait till, I mean, I

didn't wait till the end of December and say, well, I'm just going to fill a tag. So you killed, so you killed in 2023. You've harvested. Yeah. On January. No. Yeah. No. So it'd be a good guy. It'd be a good guy to have in your back pocket, Jason, to, for, if you had a tag in the desert, because he's not going to be a competition. I know, Chad, I'm, I'm coming down. You can't shoot one. Until next January. Are you coming down, Jason? No, I don't have a tag. So I didn't get a tag. And so I don't have one for 2023. Unless you draw something. So I don't know what the rules are for the, uh, out of state guys when they, when you actually have to get your tag for December calendar year. Get it in December. I think it's good for the following calendar year. Right. That's when they went on sale. Like, I want to say the first, but first week we'll call it that in December. Yeah.

But anyway, anyway, they sold out within what? A couple of two, three days. Yeah. I don't remember. Don't. Anyway. Well, yeah. Kind of just keep your eyes open. Oh yeah. So let's talk about, let's talk about sheep a little bit. I know you're super excited. You're into these sheep heavy and, and you're hitting all your guys' units, all, you know, some of the thirties, forties, all of those, you know, crazy units. And they've done a lot of splitting of, of seasons and adding tags, but trying not to create enormous pressure within any specific season. So they've, they've had to add seasons and whatnot, but kind of what's your take? It feels like things are doing really good. Like this, you know, state of the sheep are really good. They are doing good. Um, if you would have told me that, well, for say three years ago when they put, let's

just say they put eight tags in 45 C, I thought for sure it was, you know, it just kill everything off. And, uh, last year 45 C had probably one of the best years it's ever had. I think there was one 180 inch ram and two in the seventies killed out of there, you know, and I just, I would have never thought that. And then, uh, 43 B the same way they've had a bunch of tags in there. And, um, you thought they were going to ruin it. You kind of thought, you thought they were going to ruin it. They had eight tags in there. You thought it was like, uh, it's just 160s rams and it's, you're just going to kill, kill a bunch of nice rams, good place to hunt. But if you don't need a giant and then they killed you. No, so it, um, I'm a believer if you, if you work hard enough, you can, you know, you can There's something to be found. Yeah. Yeah.

You can dig something up, um, just about, in just about every unit. Um, but that, you know, that's, that can be pretty challenging. And then I think my biggest problem with having that many tags is it's, it's, these guys wait or everybody waits. It seems like, you know, 30 years to get a tag or whatnot. And it should be a trophy hunt or, uh, not necessarily a trophy hunt, but a hunt that you're going to remember for your life, a pleasant hunt. And if you've got, you know, three guys, four guys, all challenging for one ram, um, it can, I mean, it can ruin a hunt real quick. I've just been used to over the years, uh, you know, one or two tags being in a unit and there being some respect between hunters and whatnot. And it just, you didn't run into the issues of stepping on people. That's my only problem with, with increasing tag numbers, but they've got it split up and,

and most of the units that they do have, you know, over four or five tags, they've got it split up into two hunts and I don't know, like big desert out there. Yeah. And that, uh, like that 45C that you're talking about gave nine tags last year in two different seasons, total of nine. And so, and your point is, is you would think places like that or 43B or whatever would have, you know, would have seen a reduction in quality. And, and, and is it just, it must be, Adam, I mean, it must just be the, the rams that they're killing were born in the perfect year and they're just, they're big. That, that one to three year, first three years of, there's a lot of research that goes into that on sheep, just like mule deer. Yeah. But that first three years of life has a lot to say with how big a ram can be. He's got to have good genetics and that has to be there.

But if he's born on good moisture years. But if he's born on good years, their, their bases, there's a lot of research that they can get, you know, bases never shrink. They never grow and then shrink. You don't have that happen. But if they can grow in that first two, three years of life, they never get smaller. So they maintain that and can get bigger. But if they, stun it's maybe the wrong word, but if it's really severe on them. You end up starting off on a slow. Yeah, you never, you don't often then at five and six just start blowing up sometimes. Your bases aren't going to get exponentially bigger. Yeah, they can, but, but it's, that first three years can dictate a lot in a sheep's life too, rams. And that's what I'm just wondering, Chad. I mean, obviously we're hunting this. Things come and go, right? We have ups and downs. Yeah. Cycle. Nevada seems like they're cycling down.

It's the opposite. And then Arizona, it's like, I mean. Never been better in our, feels like our lifetime, take a 20 year snapshot. Arizona Game and Fish, they're frolicking. I mean, they're giggly over this and offering more tags. You know, they're touting this is the highest tag numbers in history and, and things have never been better. And we know that's not going to stay that way, you know. So it just, well, and take the resource when it's then there though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just takes, it takes a few bad years and things can go the other way. And, um, the COFA struggled for a while due to drought and, uh, cats. Lions and stuff. Yeah. A major problem with cats in there. Um, but once they got it, the cats cleared out, then, you know, things made a turnaround. Um, but no, they've invested some money and it looks really good.

Um, you know, knowledge is changing all the time and, uh, we'll, we'll see. I mean, we'll see what the long-term outcome is, but, um, it's really shocked me so far. Like I said, I, Eric would call me and say, Hey, they're putting this many tags in this unit. You're out of your mind, you know, cause I'm on the ground and I'm looking and I'm only going to see so much. And one person looking around, you know, and fish and wildlife or fish and game or flying it, you know, they got a little better idea of what's really out there. Um, yeah, but you're, you're doing a lot of research and you're, you're going up to a guzzler and seeing 50 or 60 sheep standing there at times. Right. I mean, yeah. Yeah. And it's gotta be just mind blowing, you know, on, on some of that when you're seeing what you're seeing out in the field. Yep. Ride the wave. It's here now.

And yeah, like I said, I like the split season approach. Uh, you know, if you can't split a unit anymore than it's already split, cause that, you know, that's another way to make people hunt certain portions of ranges. Some areas are harder to access than other portions within the unit, but at some point your splitting is done and then you just gotta, yeah, divvy tags on two or two and a half weeks long seasons instead of 30 days. Two, two and a half is plenty. It is. I mean, you're waiting, you're, you're, you're, for the most part, yeah. You're not going to spend 30 days. No. You know. And sheep are moving around a lot between, uh, mid November and the end of December. Um, you know, they start transit, transitioning into their winter hangouts and whatnot. So you're going to see different sheep, um, that you haven't seen all year.

Uh, you know, it's just, you can, you know, if everybody's seems to be looking at one spot, you can, you know, in most units you can dig into stuff. It just depends on, you know, how bad you want it. So you made a comment that, you know, if it's just a matter of work ethic and you can find a big ram in any of these units, do you, do you feel like there's, um, sheep that aren't getting seen in every unit? Like you've, or do you feel like at times you've vetted out all the sheep in a unit? Uh, I think, I think there's big rams hiding out that you don't see. Uh, you know, let's just say that you get a ram that really just wants to hang out in the bottoms of the washes and whatnot, you know, in the foothills and doesn't make an appearance up on any higher ground. You know, everybody's, it goes for animals too. They've got their own personalities just like you or I.

Uh, some people jog in the desert, 116 degrees. You're going to, you're going to see that guy. The guy that's laying under a shade tree? I'm going to be in a covered wagon, my side by side. So, so if you've got, if you've got a ram that's living, you know, low in the rollies and, and, you know, little cut up washes and whatnot, you go out there and look, um, if he isn't standing on something that day, you're not going to see him. Right. You know, it's, it's. Part of it. It, I mean, they just. You'll find them from the bottom to the top. Like, I don't know some of this country, you're just like, you know, be careful on, you know, I mean, make sure guys are in shape if they, you know, pick certain units and whatnot. But I mean, because it's extremely rugged and maybe a little higher elevation, it's not high elevation, but I mean, you know, just rugged, gnarly mountainous country, but then

you've got them from the bottom also clear up to the top. Yep. Spread out. Doesn't matter. Could be anywhere.

Well, I'm ready to go apply for Arizona. I know what you've been telling me what you've been thinking on. Well, I already told you, but I'm still wait. You got to wait for Utah and something crazy that happens. It changes my whole plans moving forward, but. Chad, have you applied? Have you already applied? Yeah, I've been applying. Yeah. For, well, I haven't applied this year yet, but. No. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I was wondering if you'd applied already. We, I mean, the process is brutal. You got to check out for each individual species. And so we got. I did verify. A lot of family. How my family licenses are good. So that saves one step. I don't have to buy any licenses this, this draw cycle. Saves a lot. So there's one step checked off. Yeah. Anyway. All right. Well. Well, any parting words of wisdom?

Oh. We could dive in on how you scout deer, but I don't want to give too many secrets away. That'll be another talk. That'll be after the draw comes out. We'll talk about that. Call him back. Yeah. After he is actually running in the desert at 110. I just wonder if that's BS. Are you really out there running when it's 110, 115? Yeah. How long? I'm on my lunch break. Okay. So that's that. 30 minutes? 45? Yeah. 30 minutes. How do your coworkers feel with that? You know, when you get back, are they- Dripping. Dripping. Sweating.

They're, I mean, it's nasty. I'm not going to lie. Not going to lie. You usually go up and- Tell us, I want to hear from you a little bit on how you deal, because it's on people's minds, how you deal with immigrants crossing and whatnot. Are you worried about them? Things like that. Just teach us something about that, because there's a lot of people that think about that. So, a lot of the smugglers, you know, that are pushing people, we'll see them and, you know, herds of 20 or 30 people just getting pushed across the desert, and they almost look like they're in a dead sprint going across there.

There's usually no problems at all with them.

The ones that are running drugs, they don't want to be seen just like you don't want to, you know, see them, really. My advice is just, you know, turn and go the other way, and they'll turn and go the other way as well. I mean, we've dealt with this my entire life down here. Could it be bad? Yeah. It could be pretty dangerous, but for the most part, they're not going to want to draw attention to themselves. So, I mean, if you think about it, if a drug smuggler killed a hiker, you'd have every federal agency around. Choppers that'd be. On them. Yeah. So, they're trying to be incognito as much as possible. So, you don't worry about it. Like, you're just, every day, you don't even think about it, right? Just don't have, don't look for confrontations. Don't look for confrontations. Don't be confrontational, and you're probably not going to have a confrontation. Yeah. I mean.

Take matters into your own hands. You're not the DEA yourself. Are you taking a sidearm, or, I mean, you'd probably just have something you always have, but. You know, I don't. I don't carry a sidearm. This guy runs in the desert, Jason. Yeah, just, I mean, it is what it is. If you run into someone with, you know, semi-automatic weapon, what's a sidearm going to do for you? Not a whole lot. Right. So, taking a pea shooter to a tank fight. So. So, you don't worry about it. You're just out. I don't. You're just out. I really don't. You'll hunt deer out there. Just go do your business. Yep. You're seeing them pretty regular, probably, on sheep hunts and things like that, but just don't sweat. Yeah, and, you know, I've called a few in. Problem with that is if you're hunting a particular area where you keep going back and you see people,

you know, and you're calling them in every time, those spotters pick up on that. And then you're calling them into Border Patrol. Border Patrol. Yeah.

Those spotters, there's spotters everywhere watching these people that are, you know, from the other side and telling them where to go and how to get there. And if you're in the area and all of a sudden Border Patrol keeps showing up and busting these people, then you're drawing attention to yourself. Now they know that somebody's, you're the one tipping them off. And you're ruining your own hunting area. Yeah, because you're converging with agents. And so it's just, it's a, you try to just do your thing and they do their thing and let the DA do their thing, you know. Yeah. I mean, a lot of them get away, but a lot of them, you know, a lot of them do get caught. They wait for them to get to the roadway and pick them up and take them back.

I mean, it's just one of those things you got to live with down here. Does the partial Trump wall help in parts or no? Oh, yes. It helps a lot. Yeah. And, you know, I've seen videos where, you know, people have cut the wall open and pushed, you know, a section of it open where you can go through. What they're not telling you, though, is that there's also cameras along that fence. You know, you're slowing them down is what you're doing. You're giving officers a chance to respond and make an arrest. If there wasn't that wall there, then they would just be running through by the thousands and dispersing and you would never have a chance. At least with the wall there, you know, not everybody is going to be able to scale it. You know, sure, there's a few people that can, but the majority of people can't.

If somebody comes up and cuts a hole in it, then they're going to pick it up on their imaging sensors and stuff like that, and there's going to be an agent there fairly quick. So, yeah, it's done some good.

I can see it from my house. Oh, you can? Yeah. Just spans for miles? Yeah. Wow. The general consensus of the locals is they like the wall, obviously. I mean, I'm just probably stating the obvious, but it's interesting because we don't even think about it. You know, for the most part, but it also really depends on which side of the aisle you're on.

Like, some people shoot their self in the foot just in spite. Right.

Generally speaking, though, it's a good thing. Generally speaking, we're glad it's there. Slowed the flow a little bit. It makes you feel safer? You feel safer? You can see it from your house. Do you feel safer? Yeah.

I mean, obviously, you're still going to get some through. Yeah. I mean, I've never really felt unsafe.

I don't like the idea of there being 800,000 people on the other side just trying to get across at one time. That makes you a little nervous. Yeah. You don't know who these people are.

Interesting. It definitely helps. So, it definitely gives you a little bit of peace of mind.

Yeah. Well, it'll be interesting, especially on the sheep. They can't just come to and from, you know. I mean, it probably affects the units right there on the border, too. A little bit of movement. So. Cabeza Preta. Yeah. Some of that country. All right, Chad. Sounds good. Anything else you want to offer? Oh, I can't really think of anything. We asked you. Like, I asked you to talk today. So, I know it's not something you like to do, necessarily. But it's just interesting. And it's great. As people are trying to apply in Arizona, just talk about the sheep and a few things. And it's also a different type of deer questioning. Yeah. It's totally different. Your growing cycle that you went through, antler growth, nutrition cycle, it's totally different than what we even fathom or even comprehend. It's not even, it's apples and grapes.

Even from, even from one side of the state to the other, you know, same, little bit different soil. Deer a little more used to getting weather. Yeah. These deer aren't, I mean, it's just little, little things. And it's a constant, constant learning process and things you think you got dialed in, you know, you look, you learn something new and that kind of goes out the window or could have just been a one-off thing. I mean, it's always, it's always a challenge and you try to grow, you know, and get better. But.

All right. Okay. But as far as, as far as the sheep go, it's looking good. Time to get a tag. All right. Yeah. That's what I've been waiting for. Never been better. I'm going to make it happen.

Jason's had his turn. We haven't drawn Jack. You can't draw 50-50 odds, boss. But Bronson does. I'll draw in one and two or three. He does. Pretty regular. That's what I'm good at. Pretty regular. All right, Chad. Okay. Sounds good. Well, I appreciate it. Have a good day. Thanks for the time, man. Have a good weekend. All right. You too. Be safe. Catch you later. All right. Bye-bye.

It's a totally different world down there. It is. It's interesting. Bucks and velvet still growing, finishing velvet in October, November. I know. They're rutting up here. The Trump wall is interesting. All that stuff. Everything. It's just interesting because we don't live there. Caravans running across the desert by 20, 20 to 30. Posses. It's there are herds of them. Called them herds. It did. It's just interesting. Is that the right terminology? I don't know. Maybe a people? What is it? A cluster. Group? Clan? Yeah. I don't know. Well, no. Clans are usually related. Aren't they? They probably are. I don't know. Related. I don't know. Anyway, it's interesting. It's just like a herd of people is the wrong terminology. That's all I was saying. I think there's a lot of sense in what he's saying is, you know, they don't want to see you either.

The reason we ask them is we get a lot of questions from hunters. Not always in, say, Southwest on sheep and all that because there's not very many hunters. But you move a little bit further east in some of the 36s and all that in the Coos countries, there's a lot. You're in the thoroughfare over there. You are. And it probably, it obviously differs by reaching the state too. A lot of those residents don't sweat it either. It's just, you know, or at least seem to. They're doing their thing. You stay doing yours, which is looking for deer. When you say we get a lot of questions, it just makes me smile because there's some people out there who say, I get a lot of questions about this. I'm thinking, I don't think you do. Well. But we do. We do about that. Specifically on those 36s deer. Yeah. It's not like we're lying about that. No. Bronson. Yeah. Dive into the Kinetrex.

I know you need a new pair. I do, actually. It's been probably three years and I need, it just reminded me today. Need to get some on order and get them broke in. But anyway. I got their new little booklet here. Yeah. We all, if you're a past buyer or maybe even just a, I don't know, where they get their mailing list. You may have gotten one of their new catalogs for their spring or summer collection. But anyway, they got a bunch of, bunch of, you know, fun kind of training boots. The Corey, Bridger Lowe, Slide Rock, something like that. In addition to, you know, the Desert Guide, Hard Scrabble Hiker, Mountain Extreme, or. I should ask Chad what boot is. Mountain Guides. Running in. I'm not sure. Yeah. But anyway. I use heavily the Desert Guide in a lot of my desert sheep hunts. They have no insulation. They have no waterproof membrane. I don't need that. I don't want it. I use those too.

It's just, it's just a great, well-built leather boot that, you know, it's tough. You need it tough because the desert's harsh. I don't want a soft-sided boot. I hate insulated boots. Unless you need it. I use my, you know, and even on my mountain guides that I have, I only have 200 grams. I don't like them hotter because when you're hiking, your feet get hot. They sweat. You start rubbing. Now you got a blister. Yep. So I don't use them. Desert Guide, I don't need them. If it rains, it's not, and they get wet, so what? I don't care if my foot gets wet. It's never, I'm never cold, you know, when I'm wearing them. So I like that. I need to get some onward. But anyway, check them out at Kenetrek.com, K-E-N-E-T-R-E-K.com or 800-232-6064 if you know what you want. Jump online. You know, they got free shipping on everything, over 100 bucks.

But it's the time to start looking at boots because for most people, you need a little bit of break-in time. You know, my feet have always worn Kenetrek's great. I don't really need to break them in to other people, whether they be them or something else. Feet are very unique to individuals. You got to baby them. Don't grab something too late in the year. Double check what you have. If you can't get through the year, it's time to get something on order now. I'm going to hang up after we've done this podcast. Feet are so, so sensitive. Yep. And I also want to throw a shout out to QU. You can check everything out at QU.com. Just an incredible company. Been with us from the start and vice versa. Went out there to the Mountain Academy. Kind of a customer appreciation event where they gave away, I don't know, $40,000, $50,000 in items.

Also had 40, 50% off a lot of, you know, just returned items, not used items. Just returned, different sizing. Maybe slight color correction stuff. Yeah. Just a few of those things. But, I mean, arm loads. Like, people. It was an unbelievable experience. What a great company. It's, I mean, huge force in our industry. Maybe the largest camo clothing type company out there. So, anyway, just awesome. They came out with their new catalog as well. And all their different products. You might check it out. Also go to QU.com. Very easy. K-U-I-U dot com. You know, got some really good friends.

You know, Kevin Wilkie they brought over. I mean, they've got a lot of, you know, people that we know and significant people in the industry. Hey, Brendan Burns, appreciate his relationship over the years and with us and whatnot. Just some hardcore hunters that work there. They live for it. It's not just about sales necessarily. They bring it on people and all their stuff. So, anyway, check all the ultralight hunting gear at QU.com. All right. Bronson, let's, should we call another buddy of ours? Sure. Who? Justin Van Hewley. He seems to be knocking down some deer. Of course, we've had, we've known him for years. Helped him get tags here and there where needed. He's also, they draw tags like crazy. Their family's well-versed in hunting. He's got lots of hunters. He's always calling something in the family. Always. And you've, you might need to jerk his chain a little bit.

You saw him up there in Idaho. You were smashing a big deer. But, anyway, just, it's always fun. He's interesting. Very candid. That's what I like about Justin. You don't even have to wonder what he's thinking he's going to tell you. And just maybe we'll get a deer story or two out of him. So, let's do it. We've had a few in the magazine. Oh, yeah. Or pictures. Killed big deer. We have to ask him for them, though. It's not like he's bragging at all.

Hello? Are you even working today? Actually, I am. Do you even believe in working? Office job today? Or are we in the cockpit of a machine? I'm actually out in beautiful Fairfield, Idaho. There you go. Then you're not working. I know what you're doing there. Oh, yard work, maybe. I love your Instagram posts about just hammering people that don't work and work ethic. When are you going to start posting some of those again?

The real work ones? Yeah. All of that. I love those. I'm just hoping this AI stuff runs all these Instagram influencers out of business. I love that. What do you have? Why are you so anti-influencer? They've influenced you. You're making posts because of them. Oh, yeah. What are we doing in Idaho? What are you actually doing? I know you've got kind of a summer place there. You just take after the winter, kind of the first time you've been there in a few months? No, we've got a piece of property over here that we're kind of doing some development on. So, I'm actually, believe it or not, not setting road signs today, putting up the road signs, digging posts holes. Did you name them Van Hewley Lane? Or what are you doing? I think there's one. Cheater Lane? They were already named, but I think there's one that's Buck Lane or Buck Alley. Oh, okay. There you go. Did you get a small buck alley?

Two point. Yeah. Two point lane. Yep. Well, cool. That's awesome. Well, I just want to talk to you about big deer, big bulls. Seems like you guys are in the throes and always killing stuff, even on drought years. Didn't you kill a net book typical in Nevada on a drought year? I lose track. You're killing everything. Yeah. Killing everything. Two years ago, we killed that. I think it was like 199. It ended up netting. Yeah, and that was in a tough year. Was it 2000 or 2000? Excuse me, 2020 or 2021?

2021. Yeah. Felt like the only one in the state. It felt like it. Yeah, when you smashed it. I don't want to minimize somebody else, but that felt like it was like the only. Yeah, it was a cool deer. You know, it was just nice. We didn't have a lot of pressure on that deer either, so it was kind of fun. It took us forever to get it killed, but it was kind of nice just to have that deer to ourselves for a while. You know how that is. Well, it takes time. And one thing, we teed it up just before we called you, Justin, that you've, whether it be on your own accord, you have connections in multiple states as well, or occasionally through us. You've always, you ride out good years and bad years, meaning you don't sit them out. Like, there's an example. Most people, a lot of people, set it out. I actually don't. I did. Harder than ever on drought years than I tank.

But, but you know what I mean? You ride it out. You got to just, I mean, I guess it also is the carrot dangling from working hard throughout all year long. You're going to spend your time hunting deer or a little bit of elk, but really on deer. And you ride out some tough years. You got to keep your foot in the door on landowner relations and outfit relations and all those types of things. If you're going to, you know, want your foot back in the door on a good year. So you just ride it out and hunt your guts out. But you always learn something or in some cases kill big deer when you're maybe not always expecting it. So part of it when it comes to meal deer. I haven't been like hunting big deer for as long as like you guys have. So, you know, the first time I ever went to Nevada was just 2010.

So, you know, yeah, I just want to hunt every year and still in the learning process, learning something every year. So just, yeah, that's just keep hunting every year. But you're killing them. I mean, is there, do you have any specific stories that, you know, I mean, what these deer have taught you? Are you hunting specific named deer, deer you guys are watching from year to year? Yeah, probably, you know, it's after doing it this many years, it's just kind of starting to come together the last few years. I mean, we didn't kill that many big deer before, you know, before the last couple years and just starting to, you know, figure it out. And then also I've gone away from being spread out. I think that's kind of the biggest thing that I did in the beginning was, you know, had too many tags and was hunting elk and other things that kind of all at the same time.

And have just really kind of fell in love with hunting mule deer and just concentrated on that more in the last three years. And doing it in about, I want to say two main areas, like Idaho and Nevada and a couple key areas. You know, like I said, you've got some roots there in Idaho, live in Washington, but roots there in Idaho and then, you know, southeast Nevada. And kind of keeping it, that's what you mean, reining it in instead of trying to be five or six places and be a hero everywhere. Reining it in and being focused more. We've talked about that, Carter. It does feel like you're very focused. Yeah, like I already have too many tags and I haven't gotten any. You know what I mean? I just feel spread out already. I'm doing Iowa and a couple other things that don't, shouldn't matter to a serious mule deer guy. You know what I mean? And so I think you're right.

I think you can hit the nail on the head about focus. Yeah, and then time. You know, I'm lucky that with work and everything that's set up, I mean, our whole company between me and the boys just runs focus so we can hunt every year. I mean, most of the guys that work for me hunt. So, you know, everybody kind of knows October shows up. You know, we go to about half manpower really for most of the month October between everybody. You plan it. You're around. Oh, you plan for that. Yeah. Yeah, and the guys I'll put in, you know, my wife in the office there puts pretty much all my guys in for the draws in a couple states. So we usually pick up one or two tags, you know, somebody in the company draws and we all end up hunting together. So it's kind of fun. So tell us, I mean, basically logging is what you're doing. What do you, what's your main state? Yeah, it's all based around trees.

I mean, we do like what we call contract logging, which is just big industrial tree farm. We're just killing the trees, putting them on a truck and shipping them to the mill to, you know, to a sawmill. That's the bulk. And then we do some land development stuff and we do a lot of river restoration work. We're pushing the trees over and they're putting them in the rivers for fish habitat and different stuff. But it's all based around trees, basically. How is it being a tree killer and living up in Washington?

Well, it's, it's fun. I mean, I mean, deal, but political wise. Yeah, I don't turn and go towards Seattle. We turn out of my driveway and go towards the hill. So you are. Aren't you a Seahawks fan though? I think you go there once on Sundays. We don't. We used to go downtown a couple of times a year, but we don't even. Don't even do that anymore. Just watch on TV now. Okay. No, I don't even. Don't even go. Are you dealing with mostly private landowners? So you're not having to deal with the government too much or. Private and then a little bit of state. The state set up pretty good. You know, they're, they're mandated to make money. Make money off of state. Yeah. So very rarely do we get on federal ground. And if, if we do, it's, it's, it's a headache. That's when you're going to run into your problems and protest. And just like we have in Utah. It's like, we don't have hardly any.

And we don't grow trees like you guys can grow trees. No, you can probably, you know, cut the same ground. What every 10 or 15 years or how? Oh, no, no, no. It's, it's 40 to 50 year rotation for most of that stuff, depending on, depending on elevation and stuff. So, yeah. So a 40 to 50 year old tree is usually what we're killing in, in most of the stuff. Okay. So the boys are actually on some bigger wood right now. I should be home, but they, that's probably the nicest patch of trees we've logged in 10 years or so. So. No kidding. That's private? State ground. They, they, they have some older stuff that they kind of target like a 90 year old type timber, but they're kind of about out of that stuff. So, yeah. But we should be talking about deer, not trees. Well, that's kind of special. It sounds, yeah, it's a 90 year old tree.

You know, what you do in your business to make you, you know, be able to, you know, plan around it, you know, plan the business around, you know, be busy probably summer and fall. And then I'd imagine the winter, it's harder to, harder to do that anyway. Late, late fall and winter starts to slow down. But yeah, let's talk about big deer. What do you want to talk about? You killed a big one in Idaho last year. How do you do it in Idaho year after year? I mean, what, what are some of the things you do? So just, you know, learning the ground, lots of good friends with lots of knowledge, helping out, you know, and just covering a bunch of ground. I mean, Idaho's tough. I think it's probably, they cut a bunch of those elk tags down this year. I sure wish they would have, instead of losing that revenue on the elk, keep that and would cut some mule deer tags back.

I mean, it is a little bit over hunted, it seems like. So some of those, those, you know, those, especially like 44. Not as ripe right now. Yeah. Hunting deer that are, yeah. Hunting deer that are coming out of those general units. And then there's quite a few tags in 44. They've added to them since, since we started hunting here. So with archery tags and such, but, and then, you know, 45, they just get congregated down there. So you just get a wider variety of deer that, that end up down there. All of which have been hunted before they get there. Yeah. Yeah. But it's all numbers. I mean, you've, you've been out there before, you know, you just got to cover ground and look at as many deer as you can. You're not hunting a specific deer necessarily down there unless you're hunting those early seasons. I never, I never have.

Not like Nevada where you know, you can scout and you're, you, if you're hunting on a draw tag or landowner tag, you get to hunt, you know, early, you get to hunt the fruits of your scouted bucks versus migratory type deer in large extent in Idaho. Yeah. Yeah. It's, that's fun. I mean, I, I probably enjoy the Nevada stuff and just concentrating on one deer, you know, and kind of learning his, learning his habits. It's, I don't think, I have to think I've ever hunted a deer multiple years there, you know, or one that I knew for sure, you know, most of them have been stuff that, you know, has blown up that year. That blew up this year. Whatever deer this is. Yeah. You might have known him, but he grew 30 inches, so he's not recognizable. Yeah. Yeah. So. I like that. I like that. I like that. The big. I like that dropper beams buck you killed. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was a grind too.

You know, we, we had never, we were in there, we had a couple of deer that we were concentrating on. And then last year was, I think the one that we wanted the most interested in was hitting water. And it was pretty, it was pretty wet with storms and stuff down there. So we ended up going to a different area and we were looking for that buck that Greg Krog ended up killing there with the, with all the kickers on it. And, uh, we'd never seen that dropper buck. Uh, and, uh, we were in there looking for that kicker buck in the evening of opening day, a bow, uh, Joey Vincent glassed that deer up. And so of course we just changed. We put a little move on him that night. Um, didn't, didn't get in on him and then ended up finding them the next day. And there were some other guys in there hunting that had glassed him up and, uh, ended up talking to them and, and put a little move on him.

I actually missed him with the bow the second day of the season. And then he, he disappeared. I think the next time we saw him look for him every day was like 21 days later, about three weeks. Into the muzzle. Was it still archery or was it muzzleloader by then? Uh, was he turned up archery and we had actually been, had kind of looked for him hard for like two weeks and, you know, looked in some places. Some guys had seen him a couple of years before that, um, in some other higher country. And we looked kind of everywhere and, uh, uh, we'd switched over and we're hunting another buck, that heavy deer that we killed with a gun right at the beginning of a rifle. Um, and, and, uh, he just turned back up. We were kind of popping in there every couple of days. Somebody to go look and, uh, Nick was in there. Nick Vincent was in there one evening and turned him up.

And so, um, went back in there, took us about another week. He was going to the one place that we didn't want to go look for him, which makes sense. Uh, just us being hardheaded. We looked everywhere where he'd been. And, um, once we kind of figured out where he was living, well, it was interesting. So he, he disappeared for like another four days and we looked and finally we're like, okay, we're going to have to go into this, this hell hole and start looking for him. And so Joey and I kind of decided after the morning that we were going to go in there. And Joey actually looked at some, some aerials and stuff. And he's like, you know, I think we should go down this one road, start here a little bit early in the afternoon. And, uh, we drove down. It was like, you know, like three o'clock in the afternoon or something, drove down this road and I was like, well, let's just get out here.

And we jumped out. I set the 15s up, looked across and I just caught him moving from beds in like thick juniper, just one glimpse of him. And, uh, you know, you instantly knew which one, which, that it was him. And, uh, so then we, we screwed around with him that night, didn't get him killed. And then I think we, we ended up seeing him one other time. And then I finally picked him up just a flash of a big deer first thing in the morning. And I couldn't tell if it was him, but there was really no, there was one bull that was in there and the only other set of deer tracks we saw were his. So Joey was up on a knob, called him down. And I just watched where I saw him disappear, um, right at daylight. And Joey went and got up on another knob and glassed him up at it. He was just within 20 yards or the last place I saw him was.

And we ended up, you know, screwing around with him most of that day. We tried coming in on him and the wind wasn't right. And he was, I think he was an older buck. He was moving like every hour. He would probably unbed, feed a little bit, move. Well, he kept moving one direction every time he unbedded. So we finally just got set up and, and, uh, he, one of the times when he unbedded, he came straight at us and we were kind of, we couldn't see him. We could actually hear him walking. We were so close to him. And, uh, then he bedded again and, uh, we were able to move around there and crawl around on the ground for 15 or 20 minutes and, uh, found him in his bed and shot him in his bed with a muzzleloader. That's awesome. Unbelievable. And that was last year, 2022. Yeah. All these years, all these years run together. Yeah. That was the dropper beam.

Uh, so tell us, tell us the story about this typical, um, I know you posted, I'm just, I just grabbed your Instagram real quick to check, but October 8th, 2021, but tell us a little bit about him. What a giant. Uh, the one that. 199. Oh, okay. Yeah. So that was another buck. Um, I think Joey just glassed him up, was out looking in, in like middle, middle of July. And he had, um, some video of them and, uh, just decided that was a deer we're going to hunt and found him before the season. And, uh, a couple of days before the season and hunted him hard with the bow, just, we would see him, you know, probably once a week, maybe once every four days, he would show. And he was going, coming out of some, some stuff that wasn't as thick and going back into, you know, he's never bedded out in the open. He's always bedded, just would disappear.

Kind of tried everything, tried cutting him off, ambushing him and got close a couple of times, but he was always with other bucks, never stalked him in his bed or anything like that. It was always either him coming out at night and trying to get a move on. It just didn't work out. Um, and then kind of did the same thing with muzzleloader. I spent a bunch of time in there, muzzleloader by myself, um, would see him never really had an opportunity. Um, the one day, uh, Jared, my oldest son was there helping me and we had seen him the night before, uh, with all the bucks in a spot and there was like six or seven bucks in there before, you know, two hours before dark gets light. Um, all the bucks were there except for him at like, you know, 200 yards. That was, that was with muzzleloader. And, uh, so just never got a chance. And then, uh, went in there.

Of course we figured we'd have, you know, during the whole time, we just never had any pressure, which was nice. And then come rifle season, um, we, we saw him every day during rifle, um, same place, same, same place. And there was nobody in there. And so the first day we didn't get a shot at him. The second day I missed him with a gun at like 600 yards, um, which was just totally my fault. And, um, but you know, we just kept hunting him. And then I think we, we didn't see him the third day. I don't think. And then the fourth day we saw him right at daylight and we're able to get embedded for the first time in a thick hole and kind of the same thing, um, snuck around there for an hour, hour and a half, trying to get an angle on him and finally got where we could see him in his bed. I think like 340 yards and, and just killed him right in his bed. That's awesome. A lot of time, man.

I mean, that's what, that's, I mean, that's what you're talking about archery. You're talking about muzzleloader and you're talking into the rifle a lot of days, man. That's what big deer take. I mean, they don't come easy. And then in a drought year, it's not like you got other options, BC, DNF, you know, you don't have that. And why does he grow? Why does he grow that well? And you know, drought just kills. What would he have been there in a few bite years? Yeah, I don't, I don't know. And it's hard to, it's hard to get a typical deer, you know, to get numbers like that where, where they're actually that big when you're field judging them. I don't know. It seems like the hardest thing to look at a typical and figure out where they're going to be. So the hardest ever, you're thinking you're shooting a 190 and he hits the ground at over two gross, you know? Yeah.

I mean, you just never look at a deer and go, oh, he's got, you know, it's hard to say he's got 26 inch beams and 19 inch G2s and, and, and really, you know, commit to those numbers. Right. So. Right. Yeah. So he was a little bigger than we thought, but yeah, just a cool deer. Is how, is he, I mean, did you officially enter him in the book? Yeah, I did. So you got him, I mean. 199 or you said. Yeah. That change or whatever. Jeez. Tell it. Yeah. And then we, then I killed that Idaho buck that same year. Yeah. Um, on one of the late hunts. Yeah. Another typical that was kind of a, kind of the opposite of him, like a narrower buck, you know, big giant G4s, good beams, everything. And he ended up official and a two Oh two. So that was, those two, two Oh two gross. I think he was one, one 97 net somewhere right in there. Something like that. Pretty crazy.

But, uh, killing a pair of book typicals in the same year. Yeah. Yeah. Those are, I mean, that was probably the best two deer I've ever killed. So yeah, it was, it was fun. Did you, were you, did you take first in the buckle typical wise in Nevada that year? Obviously. Yeah. Yeah. So Nevada's got that kick Carson awards, the silver belt buckle. And they give, they give a buckle for first, second, third place. I freaking love those buckles. Like it's, I don't do, I hate trophies. Do you ever wear one? I don't know. You don't wear those. You put them in your safe. Okay. Well, no. Belt buckles. By name, they're belt buckles. I know, but I mean, it isn't, I don't know what it is about those buckles in Nevada. I wish Utah did. I don't know. I, I. And, Hughley, I want to see you show the Expo next year with a buckle. I hate awards. I want to see somebody wear one. I don't hunt for awards.

I hate awards. But those buckles are freaking cool. Well, you got to have a whole drawer full of them too. Well, I mean, a couple, if you need one. I want to challenge you two right now. I don't have one. So I want to challenge you both. You're going to get one this year. You're going to get one. I want you guys to wear those to the Expo next year. I want to, I want you, I want a picture of the diamond. I'll wear the non-tipical buckle. You wear the typical buckle. Do it. Let's do it. And they have to be on your purse and not just pulled out of a. But I just think it's such a cool award. Like Boone and Crocodile will give you a little sheet, but I don't even, or trophy, or I don't even care about that stuff. But these buckles, they're silver buckles, the kick Carson award. They're cool. Don't you think, Justin? They're freaking cool. It's super cool. Yeah. So just a little.

You think I'm going to get one this year? What? With an antelope? What do you think? Well, dude, you got. I don't have an antelope. You got a deer tag. Yeah. It's possible. And it's that kind of year. It's good. What do you think? So anyway, just before we leave that, just a little shout out to the Nevada Record Book, NV Record Book on Instagram. Follow them. You can kind of learn more about that. It's awesome. I freaking love those. They do it for all the species. But Justin, what do you think this year is going to be like? You know, everybody's saying it should be good. It seems like there's plenty of water. I think the biggest thing is those deer, the shape they were in last year. I mean, they were fatter going into the winter than they were in July, I think. They had excess. They don't have to recover from the drought body-wise this year. They have it going into the spring.

The feed in the fall. And then the feed's here. The weather. It was dumb. And then now we still have it. It's crazy. Yeah. It'll be a miracle to get a buckle this year, any of us, I think, because I think there's going to be a lot of giants that pop up and get killed everywhere. So, yeah. It'll be fun. I mean, we're right there. What are we, you know, three weeks away from starting to be able to get an idea of what stuff's looking like? Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be fun. We're ready for cameras. Yeah. Yep. Jeez. So, tell us. Idaho looks good, too. Does it? Because it kind of had an off year last year. Uh, yeah. I mean, it's just, this stuff here, these deer can get south of the Bennets and they winter pretty good. And, I mean, this is as much water as I've ever seen here. So, it's raining here right now, actually. I'm sitting down in the rain. And the winter kill didn't affect you.

It was only, you know, far eastern, east of I-15, southeast corner and all that. Yeah. I haven't heard of any here. Um, so, I'm, I'm, I'm sure there's little pockets, like, everywhere, some of that higher mountain stuff. But, I haven't heard of anything terrible. So. Yeah. Didn't your wife kill a giant in Idaho, like 219, I want to say. I can't remember. Uh, I think it was 17. Yeah. That's the biggest deer anybody in my family. Is it really? Yeah. She wears the, she's got the buckle in the family. Wasn't it 219 or gross or something? 218, yeah. It was like a, a 10 by 11. Not, not an old deer. It was a, it was a younger deer. It would have been a giant. Um, probably a four and a half year old deer, if I had to guess. Wow. Um, but just, yeah. Just a gift? Like glass it and kill it? Just, just happened? Oh, yeah. I had never, had never seen it.

Um, we actually kind of went into a little bit different area that I hadn't hunted that much. And, uh, it was afternoon. We had, uh, just going and doing an afternoon hunt. And, uh, it was just me and her and set up the coas and was glassing on some big peaks and a couple bucks walked out through the spot. There was like three of them and through the spot and scope. I knew once I looked at him, we were going to kill him, but I had no idea what he was. Um, I could just tell you it was a good frame deer with kickers, kickers out both sides. And, you know, I think the biggest deer she'd probably killed was like 160 inch deer. Um, so we, it was, it was pretty late in the evening, but we jumped in the pickup and ran over there, got, you know, cut the distance a little bit. And then we had to hike up a pretty steep knob, maybe, I don't know, maybe a mile. Got up on the knob.

And as soon as I got there where I thought he would be, I glassed him up with the 15s and he was bedded, kind of bedded uphill a little bit. And, uh, when he turned his head, I was, I didn't even tell her, you know, I saw all the stuff on the back and all that trash. When he turned his head, I just got her set up. It was like 400 yards and shot him in his bed too. That one was a little bit more of a rodeo. It took us, took us a little bit to get him killed, but she, she hit him the first time. I just was, uh, had to move around a bunch and got pretty close to dark. We ended up having to back out of there and found him right where he, right where we left him in the morning. But that was a long night. Well, what about this? Uh, tell me a little bit about this deer you killed last year in Idaho. I don't know if you killed it or who killed it, but anyway, I think you killed it.

It's a non-typical couple of end lines off G3, G4. Yeah. Yeah. That's a, you know, that's just a, I don't know. He's a little bit over 200. Um, like, uh, you know, just kind of one of those, another younger deer. He doesn't have a giant frame. He's just solid. Um, you know, kind of probably similar to that deer you killed in Idaho that one year. Um, something like that deer had a lot more extras than this one did, but, um, yeah, just a, just a good young deer. It's hard to got, you know, you'd like to be able to walk away from that, but you really can't. I don't know. Hey, you know, 200 inch plus deer, you're going to walk, not going to walk away from them. Yeah. That was another one. My, my youngest son glassed that one up from a long ways away. And it took us a couple of days to get in there. He was, they were rutting pretty hard, but, uh, ended up getting in there and getting them

killed. Then, uh, not a deer you knew about or anything like that. No, no, not a deer I knew about. Just covering ground, covering the numbers pretty much, huh? Just covering ground. Yeah. Uh, I mean, you've hunted Idaho, these deer rut pretty good here. I mean, you get to the last 10 days of October. They're rutting. And if you're, if you're hunting, yeah, it, as much as I've, I've never seen them rut even in November, hardly in Nevada, as hard as they rut here in October. So just different. So, yeah, I mean, and, and we get, if you get in these better units, like if you're 44, 45, you know, you got kind of, you got the rut and you got migration going at the same time. So you just, you can never know what's showing up. Yeah. Yeah. Every day is a new day. You look at the same place the year before, day before. I love that. Yeah. It's, it's fun. Just rotations. It makes it too.

So you don't have to spend all year scouting. Like you can scout Nevada or Utah or whatever, some other thing. And then if you're hunting Idaho, you can just, you can go and work it hard while you're there, but you don't have to, you don't have to spend for three months. Kind of like Colorado, why we, same, same principle. We usually show up and hunt Colorado hard for a week and take what you get. Yeah. I think if you're good, you're 44, I've, I've never been able, been good enough to do it, but I mean, that September 15th start, it'd be nice to find a deer in summer. If you had time to do that, but you're busy doing what you've been describing in Nevada, trying to kill, find your deer, killing archery or maybe muzzle. I mean, it's, you can't be everywhere, but. You could, you could try it this year. You could try it this year while we're in Nevada.

You let us take your Nevada tags off any, any and all, and just go try that. I think that's a personal, that's a great personal goal. I do too. September 15th, kill a buck. I think not missing him on the second day of the archery season would be the first goal. There you go. All right. Well, it's no joke that killing a big deer with a bow is hard. That is hard with a bow, but it's also why you love hunting them with a bow too, because you get first crack, you're hunting them right after, you know. You can punch paper all year long, but when you got a 200, 210, 220. You got a 200, 210, 220. Yeah. Coming close. It kind of gets to you. Yeah. It used to be nice in 44 when there wasn't an archery. Right. You know, that would be better. I don't think I ever had a tag, too many tags in here then, but yeah, when you had, then they weren't bugged at all.

Now they got, I think, 40 archery tags, so they get pretty decent pressure, I think, from that.

Well. Well, expect them a big thing. I mean, you've been doing them during tougher years, so yeah. I think, didn't you and Bronson break bread up there one night up there in Idaho? Well, we got talking before we called you today, so hey, we got to talk about the secretness of mule deer hunters, because we all. The time that, when Justin tests you, tests you being truthful or not. He tested my. One of you guys always shows up somewhere. Well, it was just funny. We'd been texting. It was a year I had a tag up there, and I knew you did, but it was like, I'm alone at my, I'm a, this is mule deer hunters right here. This is mule deer hunters for you. I'm alone eating dinner. I'd get walked in there straight along, and I order whatever, and I get a text from Justin. Hey, you and Idaho hunting. I love that. That's so awesome. Yeah, just got here. That's one for the books.

Oh, yeah, where are you at? Where are you at? And he's texting me. He's looking at me from across the restaurant, texting me, testing my integrity right now. That's the funniest story. Whether I'm in Idaho hunting. When he sees me right there, looking at my phone and texting him. It's the funniest story in the world. And Fanny says, well, why don't you come over and join us for dinner? I look, oh, hi. Did you have to buy? I think I went to my favorite spot the next day, and you were parked right in the spot that I was. Sorry. I mean, I don't know anything about that. It was probably my first time there. But it was just, that's mule deer hunters test. Hey, you and Idaho yet hunting? He's looking at me right now. No, I'm just, I'm not sure when I'm going to make it. No, I just, I got hung up. Yeah. What if I'd have said that? You know, I'm just, I'm trying.

Justin would have, he would have kept it going. Really? Really? Well, there's a guy that looks just like you sitting in the restaurant I'm in right now then. Where would that have gone? It's awesome. It was funny. That deer you killed was cool. It was a cool deer. Yeah. You know, you wish, you know, just like we were saying, you wish a deer had everything. You had a, basically a three point side, but sometimes. Basal point. Was that the basal point book? Yeah. Basal points. Basal points are the, those are the, that's the coolest points. They can have maybe, maybe kickers off, kickers off the G4. And then. Basal points. I don't know. Split beams, triple eye guards. There's a lot of cool things. 35 wide. I mean, there's a number of things we like, but that's what makes me older. There's not too slick four points can look similar to each other, but outside of that,

they all, they're all different. You want every one you've ever seen. You want that one. And the next one, they all look different. Want them all. They're all unique, but we're, we're excited about Nevada too. So this is, I mean, I've had tags for two, three years and chickened out on a couple of them. Landowner tag here and there. You know, decided, um, I did get a little busy as, you know, had some sheep hunts up north and things like that. And then when it looked like, Hey, it's going to be a tough year. I bailed. But this year I'm not bailing. I've tried to get him to bail. No. No, just in jest. All right, Justin, anything else? Uh, no. I just, uh, thanks for everything you guys do. Appreciate, uh, the help over the years with everything. And, uh, say thanks to, uh, uh, Taylor Price and, uh, Price Trophy Hunts on the help with those guys. So. Yeah. Good guys.

You guys have dealt great relationship and friendship over the years. And I think he's got, there's a lot of, a lot of, a lot of good hard hunting dudes over there right now. They just, man, you kind of watch them grow up and then all of a sudden they, they just turn it on and watch out. Yeah, well, I think that, uh, the buckles, like what, they got three, three of the deer buckles this, in this last year. Yeah. So if you like buckles, it's pretty good. Oh, it's great. Basically, I guess we got to tell, tell the listeners cause a lot of people don't know about it, but I mean, the, the buckles are, you know, for a non-typical mule deer, they give three, the first three, the best three that are, that are entered into the Nevada record book. And then same thing with typicals. So, and then you got elk and sheep and everything else. So anyway, if they've got three out of the six.

That's 50% of them last year, right? Yeah. Unless, do they give them for archery? No, they don't. Just typical and non-typical. Six, six, first, second, third. Right, Justin? First, second, third. What's that? Just first, second, third for a typical and non-typical. Yeah, they got three of the six. Yeah. So. Yeah. So, yeah, what did they get? They got second on the typical and first and second on the non-typical. Yeah. Just on a tough year, you know, just, it was just a tough year. So, anyway, they're best producing dudes out there. All right. Okay, sounds good, buddy. Well, good luck this year, man. You don't really need luck. But, yeah, look forward to seeing you. I'm sure we'll be passing you on the gravel somewhere. We will. Yeah. Count on that. Just don't crack my windshield. Okay. Thanks again for having me. Take care. Talk to you. You betcha. Bye. Bye. He downplays a lot.

What do you mean? He's downplaying. He's been killing it. He's doing great. He's in a great run, you know, especially starting Nevada in 2010. I remember when he, you know, was buying a few tax from us clear back then and getting cranking. And then it does come together, like he's saying. It's nice to be able to hunt. Build upon knowledge and units. Yeah. Kind of local knowledge, whatever, you know. You can't replace local knowledge and you get that with time even if you're not a local. Yeah. And it just. That's right. Same thing with Idaho. He hunts familiar country there. He's, you know, bought in a, I call it a summer home, whatever, the second residence there. So, he likes something. Yeah. Repeated country. And that's, he's admitted it. It's paying off. It is. The last three or four years, probably more than the first three or four years, of course.

I want to throw a little shout out out to Thompson Long Range. Sure. Sure. Appreciate them and their support here at Epic Outdoors. Great guys. Mark and Scotty Thompson up there. They have the Critter Lick Attractant as well as Long Range Rifles specializing with the Weatherby. And Leupold Scopes and he's got a custom scope built, you know, to their specifications. And very affordable Long Range setup. Appreciate them and their support. Again, Thompson Long Range. You can reach out to him at 435-713-4248. 435-713-4248. And just great hunters. Great guys. Killed a lot. And done a great job over the years. And, again, appreciate their friendship and support and business affiliation. They also supported the Muleys Matter movement that we've initiated here at Epic Outdoors. Muleys Matter. They do matter. And it's nice.

We kind of started this, you know, our company did basically based off of the premise that they're hurting right now. Just with the winter kill and the long-term drought and whatnot. And to basically, you know, encourage guys not to just kill something to kill it unless you really want. If you need meat, kill it. That's what hunting's all about. If you're hunting for a trophy as well as meat, great. You know, hunt for a trophy. But don't just kill one to be able to say you killed one. Instead, you could leave that tag unpunched. Submit it to us here. After the hunts. After the hunts. We're going to do a – you need to submit it before December 1st. There's a few later hunts. But that's the deadline we've put on there. That's right. That's right. So, anyway, there's a Muleys Matter movement. We've got an Instagram page, Muleys Matter. We also have a link on our website.

Logan, do you want to talk a little bit about that? Yeah. Website just went up yesterday. It's epicoutdoors.com backslash mm-home. Or if you just go to epicoutdoors.com and look at the slider on our homepage, you'll be able to go right to the Muley Matters home. Got a little bit of a description on what the Muleys Matter movement is, as well as rules and how to enter, what tags are eligible, and how to get those in, as well as a prize list. It's just a shell of a site. We actually don't have all the prizes loaded. Prizes continually come. Bronson. Daily. We had a freaking rifle show up yesterday. Yeah, Browning. Thanks for them stepping up. And then I think you mentioned Thompson. They donated a couple of long-range shooting courses, didn't they? They did. And it's just awesome. I mean, it just shows you we've got actually a large list of items

that are going to be given away, including, like you said, a couple of long-range courses through Mark and Scotty Thompson. And it's awesome. By the time this wraps up through the fall, it'll be double what it is now, probably. I mean, it just keeps growing weekly. We've had members step up with cash prizes as well as optic prizes, some that want to remain anonymous. Others, you know, don't care either way. And so we're going to have a little shout-out to them as well as shout-out to the companies that are stepping up. And just fun. It's just fun. It's fun to give away stuff. It's fun to create an awareness. We all have done it. Nobody likes to go home empty. You want to smash one at the end. But, you know, when we're struggling right now, on top of what the states are doing, we can even take it another step forward and leave a few more bucks alive for down the road.

Yeah, that's about it. Again, it's not like we're going to have some official rules, and you're going to see some of that basically just a landing page for now. It's going to grow, and we're going to fill it in with the details. And we're going to keep this going year to year to year. So pretty fun. For sure. Kind of something to do. It has nothing to do with us financially whatsoever. Everything donated is given away. Yeah. Everything donated. Anything we're donating and everything that people donate to the cause is going to be given away as a prize. So we're not keeping any of it, no overhead. Just a fun thing, something to have in the back of your mind after you go hunt your guts out this fall. Don't find what you want. Know that there's, all right, instead of punching a tag on something, you send an unpunched tag to us, be entered in it. So anyway.

We do have a membership drive going, the Epic Hunts and Optics giveaway. You can go to our website to get details for that. We're giving away incredible hunts, eight different hunting opportunities, as well as a rifle, bow, and optics package. Not just a rifle or bow. We're talking, it includes the rifle, includes a bow, and optics, $15,000 plus dollar package and whatnot. So anyway, you can go to our magazine. You can go to the website, epicoutdoors.com. You can get a free, you know, a free entry, basically, for joining Epic Outdoors, and then an entry for referring guys, as well as buying tickets and participating in that. And so give us a holler at 435-263-0777, 435-263-0777. Go to epicoutdoors.com. Get in there. If you don't find that you're successful over the next few days and you've still got an open schedule, you might participate in that.

Just another drawing, another opportunity to grab onto something world class that Bronson and I would want ourselves. That's why we picked them. That's right. Well, hope everybody has a great Memorial Day weekend. Be safe. A lot of graduations out there. Congratulations to college, high school graduates and families. And be safe on the lake, the mountains, wherever you're at. What a great time of year. Good time of year. It is. It's a great time of year. Spring has sprung. It's time to get out. Spring has sprung. Yep. All right, everybody. We'd like to thank all of our sponsors here at Epic Outdoors. For top-of-the-line hunting, clothing, and apparel in every environment, visit underarmor.com. We'd like to thank Under Armour for being our title sponsor and making this podcast happen. Visit our website, epicoutdoors.com, for discount codes to Under Armour hunting apparel.

Handcrafted, quality, precision rifles from start to finish. Red Rock Precision is one of our sponsors, and many of our staff uses Red Rock rifles. Visit redrockprecision.com to find out more. If you're in the market for a hunting property, our sponsor at St. James Sporting Properties specialize in premier hunting properties throughout the West. Check out available hunting properties at stjamessportingproperties.com. Good-looking, comfortable camo describes Kuyu. The new bush pants from Kuyu keep your legs comfortable while walking through the thorns and bristles. Visit kuyu.com for sizing and prices. Kennetrek makes great boots for any situation. Most sheep hunters in the high, rocky altitudes use these boots to keep their ankles in check on the rough terrain. Visit kennetrek.com to learn more.

We at Epic Outdoors are a fierce firearms dealer and have many popular models in stock and ready to ship. Call us if you would like help deciding which options are right for you. Fierce Long Range Rifles are a great rifle, and many of our employees here use them. Visit fiercearms.com to learn more. Triple S Polaris specializes in custom setup hunting side-by-sides. They deliver right to your door nationwide. Visit ssspolaris.com to learn more. For affordable, long-range rifles and shooting schools, visit thompsonlongrange.com. Thank you to Phonescope, the best camera optic adapter out there. Phonescope makes high-quality phone cases and optics adapters.

Visit phonescope.com to learn more. StealthCam has high-quality, durable trail cameras that we all love to use. Check them out at www.stealthcam.com or call us to order today. Here at Epic Optics, we are a verified dealer for Swarovski, Zeiss, Leica, Vortex, StealthCam, and more. Call us today to visit about the available optics we have and what would be right for you. Or visit epicoptics.com. For only $150 a year, you get nine issues of the Epic Outdoors magazine and unlimited access to our hunt consultants, as well as access to our verified research website. To see all the other member benefits, visit epicoutdoors.com. If you hunt multiple states, our services are essential. The Epic Outdoors License Application Service is for you if you ever miss deadlines or would like help developing your long, medium, and short-term license application goals.

Give us a call today at 435-263-0777 to learn more.