EP 279: Epic Chemistry, What To Do After Drawing a Tag and Talkin' Idaho, New Mexico and Western Big Game

Anything to do with Western big game.

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Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, John Peterson coming at you from Southern Utah. A lot of stuff going on here, Bronson. We got tag results left and right, it feels like. Every day. Only one state at the moment, but hey, we're excited. Hey, it was Montana, it was late last week. We got Wyoming today for elk. And any day, we got Idaho moose sheep goat, Utah, Nevada, it's all. It's all coming. Friday, the latest for Nevada, that's the one sure thing, right? Yeah. It's the one sure thing. The other two are just whenever it happens. I want to ask the question, Bronson, to you. I've got nothing. Well, okay, but this is what everybody's been wanting to know. Did you finally use your max points for moose in Montana?

No. Okay. The saga continues. I tried. Did you? Oh, of course. What do you mean? I applied. You applied for the best unit in the state, second best. Pretty good one. Did you? I was not going for something for me, let's put it that way. There's a lot of beautiful red, dark red. Dark red. That's fair of me. But they, yeah. No. I've got a lot of that in the freezer already. Well, I look forward to talking about it for another year. Dude, I was all in on that one. I'm excited. And if that happens, it's the, the, I'm already excited if that, in that ever happens, just to the fact that they'll be gone. The points. He's probably worried he wasn't going to have enough room for all that moose meat if he had that 30, 30 pounds of Nevada antelope. Well, that's Nevada antelope. Well, everybody's all in on this hunt. He's got everybody wrapped in and he's only got like 13 points.

I've already made concessions to Archibald that he can have the meat. Like, I mean, you guys, don't try to hone in on that. Neck meat, rib meat, whatever. Tenderloins. I might get the inside tenders is all you might get. All right. Okay. So no. So nothing there. Nothing in Wyoming. None of us, if I'm not mistaken. We did have members draw in Montana. It's pretty awesome. But us here, none of us. Yeah. And not that I was expecting it, but double digit points, you're still a little shy of what you really want. Why is it that I'm always surprised when I don't draw? I think I'm going to draw every tag I put in for it. I think I'm going to draw. I'm the opposite. Maybe I'm pessimistic on it. John's figuring some 12-year-old got his tag. First time a plier that plied the last five minutes of the draw was open. For the record, I'm not bothered by deer and elk and antelope and all that.

Just those. Cow elk. No deer. No antelope. It makes me sad to see a 70-year-old die with never drawing. John, they had the best hunting of their lives. They were killing big stuff before you and I were even born. They could kill three bucks a year. They were party hunting for deer here in the West. Okay. You changed my mind. Legally. Well, okay. You're talking more like sheep tags. Yes. Yes. I'm talking sheep tags and maybe that's being selfish. I'm like, I'm never going to draw a sheep tag. It's taken forever. And I'm with John. They did it to themselves because I'm sure they all killed 17 deer a year to have to feed the family. Every tag got put. Yes, they did. And they're complaining about that. And they've done it to us. They did not have a Mule of These Matter program. No. No. No. They didn't think Mule. The only Mule of These Matters were the ones upside down in trees. Yes, exactly.

Randomly scattered across the landscape. Happened to feed every widow. Going home in the bottles of venison. Bottled meat. I mean, hey, we got some bottled meat. You know, the bottled meat. It is good. So that is a, A, we should all have some food storage. Okay. We're taught. Should have some food storage, right? Yep. B, that means bottled meat. Yeah. But have you ever had like the texture of bottled meat? I grew up on it. Have you ever ate wet cat food? No. Stuff in cans when you were a little kid? What do you do with the slime on the top? What do you do with the slime? You dump it out. You dump it in there. That's calories. You pour about a half a cup of mayonnaise in with it. Stir it up. Stir it all up. Throw some pickles and throw it on a sandwich and call it a day. It's like a tuna fish sandwich with dairy. Yeah, it is. That's how I cook. Or you do it with barbecue sauce.

It's just like pulled venison. Pulled venison. Yeah. Yeah. In my house, nothing ever makes it to bottled meat. It's my wife. Gone. Makes every steak. She's a carnivore. She's like straight up. Yeah. Raw. She'd probably take a tenderloin right out of the antelope and eat it straight. One. Yeah. Raw. Yeah. It's good stuff, too. I'm a convert to raw meat. Are you? Oh, yeah. Straight raw. It's good. Sadie is still terrified. She is. That night we were coming home from the expo and we stopped. Why? Jen got raw meat. Yeah. What do you mean? You gone? Well, we stopped. Yeah. And then John actually, didn't you guys send it back because it was cooked too much? Yeah. So usually I don't. I hate sending stuff back. Where is it? It was just on the way back. It was horrible. And we were just- Like a Wendy's hamburger? No. What are we talking about? No, it was a steak. It was a steak. Yeah.

But it wasn't- Yeah. It was like a cheese or something. You guys stopped at an actual steakhouse? Only because of- Remember the storm and we couldn't get out of there and all that? Well, I was with Wyatt and it was- We were- He was spurring the little pony. I think he had a car to his car. You guys almost took flight right here between here and Beaver. Remember? Remember all that storm and whatnot? Oh, weird vibrations. You guys got out and checked the tires and that? We thought lug nuts were loose. Okay. Well, one hour prior to that or two hours prior to that, John sent in a steak back because it's not raw enough. Yeah. That was post me just about getting shanked by the security guards at the Salt Palace for driving my truck in there. Remember that? Yeah. One guy told me, but I guess it wasn't the right guy. Yeah. The one dude charged the mound on me. Yeah. Yeah. He did. He did.

And Pollock's in there in a diesel just rumbling around, driving around the expo. I don't know. Everybody's rolling coal through the roof. Roofage. Does your truck roll coal? Security. Because these new trucks don't roll coal. But they'll smoke most of these trucks anyway. Even your truck, you've got it going on. Yeah. Anyway, Sadie observed Jan at her finest eating. She still talks about it. I mean, you just got to. Still talking about it? Yeah. When she orders it, how does she order it? Because I took it. Blue. That's the term. Yeah. I was going to tell you. And it's. I've had a deer hunter show up at camp and said, how do you like your steak? He says, blue. And I said, what? What is that? So it's basically grills super hot. 20, 30 seconds, 43 seconds, and you're done. And you sear it. Is it cold in the middle? Or is it warm in the middle? Sometimes it's cold. A little bit cold.

And that's good? You're happy with that? And you can get away with that with beef. Yeah. Try doing it with that too. I like it a little warm, but she'll eat it cold. Only beef, right? Oh, yeah. Not pork and chicken, I hope. No, not pork and chicken, yeah. Okay. No. But it's got to be frozen before, so everything's dead. Really? Yeah. So there's no cysts? Yeah. So there's no, I mean, I guess. Does it? I thought that's not. Our government always says, we're going to get sick from raw meat, but if it's beef and you freeze it, you're not going to get sick after. What about pork frozen? I don't know. We don't mess with pork that way, so I don't know why. We eat raw fish, right? Yeah. And raw fish all the time. But, I mean, you can gut a deer and you got all that on your hand. You don't get sick to your stomach, but you see a piece of meat on your plate that's semi-bloody and you're like, huh?

I'm going to throw up. I don't. I mean, get over it. But I don't like a blue. Eat that. Eat that. So good. So much better. Medium rare is good enough for me. That's a couple steps above blue.

I like medium rare. Yeah. Close to rare, but I don't know about blue term. I like a warm throughout. Let's just put it that way. I don't want to have it chilled. I don't want to have ice crystals in the middle of the section from the freezing. I don't care if it killed something. It's usually warm unless it's frozen or something. Well, we had some draw results. We had the Wyoming elk. Of course, our guys did pretty good, Bronson. I mean, people drew some tags. A lot of happy people. Not at this table, but that's all right. I mean, like I said, I don't think anybody was. Pollock, did you officially state your results? Yeah. Unsuccessful? Yeah. Okay. I just didn't hear that. Did you officially, Jason? Yes. For you and all the children? All the women and children? It was zero. Okay. No tags. Me too. No tags for the record. Saving mine all for Nevada and Utah.

That's what I, every time I, I think I'm going to draw every tag, and then as soon as one slams the door, it's like, oh, well, it's everyone from now on I'm going to draw. I don't know. I didn't really care about Wyoming. Yeah. Wyatt, Wyatt did give a good statistic yesterday while we were going to lunch. He said we have officially drawn sheep tag or multiple in every state this year so far. Wow. Nice. Huh. Good. Keep the streak alive. You know, Bronson, so the one thing we get to look forward to is these turnback tags. One thing I like. What are you looking about? What do you look? I just realized we're not on camera today, and I love it. We are. Yeah, there you go. No cameras. We can do what we want. Yeah. Look at this. You can just take the day off. So everybody, just so you know, anybody who's listening, typically you can also watch the episodes on YouTube.

Yeah, but it has changed the dynamic. I know. It's like putting a governor on your car. 100%. Maybe that's a good thing. It's like putting 98 miles an hour. I know you want to go 120. Sometimes you shouldn't go too fast. It's just I don't want to be governed. Well, I don't want to be analyzed. All my bodily movements. That's why we turn the lights down way low. Well, no. That's one thing. I mean, call him Juice Box or whatever. Logan, he gets to choose, and it's Bronson. They get to choose. And this is the one thing I remember about the guys that edit video, audio, whatever, is if you bug them one day, they get to choose how you're presented out in the real wide world. Oh, I'm sorry, Mr. Bronson. That was the only video clip we had of you, you know? You look like an idiot. You look like an idiot. I think you look fine. When you were picking the scab off of your arm.

That was the best video I had of you today. Really, Logan? I'm just wasting time. That is how John. And John, graphic designers, video editors, whatever, they get to choose a few things in life. And depending on your relationship with them at that moment. The final say. Might dictate what you look like in the real wide world. I take care of you guys. You do. And they can even choose to delete things from themselves. They say, yeah, that didn't happen. Yeah. That's happened before. That's happened. Yeah. A few luxury. We've lost entire episodes. Chris. Oh. Most notable. We've lost entire episodes. He's lost a lot of stuff. In order for like. Yeah. Anyway. What? In order to get Gunnison last year, not on the podcast before I went. It was like. Every podcast had to be like. Oh, you take that Gunnison out of there. You did? Oh, yeah. John. And then afterwards, it was fine. But jeez.

You did that? Jeez. Yes. I didn't know that. Does John have editing privileges? I don't know. Apparently. I can suggest. Heavily suggest. Logan. Well, no wonder why the time you went to Gunnison that you had notes left on your truck window every night. I know. It's still. Still, I had truck notes. Hey, well. And we had people leaving them on them thinking they were your trucks and they weren't. They thought they were mine. And vice versa. Wyatt. People in Texas Plates getting epic notes on their thing. Utah Plates. Texas Plates. It was good. Not that it's a big deal, but I'm just like, I'm an introvert. Really? I don't necessarily like. Adam, is he an introvert? No. I would say I'm an introvert. No. You're not an introvert. I am? I am. I don't like it. Every day I walk in, I have to be somebody I don't want to be. You have to charge yourself up? Yeah.

I have to be somebody I don't want to be. Maybe you are. I am. I am. Totally. As Jenna.

Well. Nobody's an introvert, but I do like. Yeah. You don't mind hunting alone. You'd like a little bit of privacy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, afterwards. Well. What? It's over. I was just going to propose that if you approach me on the mountain.

This is a Chris moment. There's some ground rules. You guys have got DNA in common. What do you mean? It's like. There's some ground rules being laid. If you were able to ask a dumb question that you shouldn't ask, then I'm allowed to like to you. Like what? Give me an example. I don't know where we're at. Hey, where were you this morning? Was that you sitting on that knob? No. It wasn't me. I followed you last night. Where are you going? I don't think John lies. Do you, Adam? I don't. No comment.

Do not recall. I'm just saying like during a hunt. Do not recall. I do not recall John ever lying. Let me chew on that.

It depends on what the definition of lying is. I'm just saying. Would you please define lie? Why are the hunts on you have immunity? What's the difference? John usually sits or stands. He doesn't lie.

Right? What? I've never seen him lie on a hunt. No. No. No. I'm always sitting or standing. Oh, geez. Wow. Well, to lie is to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly. Except during a hunt. As with intent. Everything has to do with it. To deceive. That's what it says. Yeah. That exactly. Well, is that a lie to you? Would you say knowingly? If you remove the intent there, then maybe it's not a lie. Because if you don't intend to mislead somebody. If it's during the hunt, I intend to mislead them. Then that's a lie, according to that definition. That's a pretty black point. I don't care if you're sitting. Talk to me after the hunt. I don't care if you're sitting. You're lying. Why is Pollock silent? I don't know. He's researching. What is it? Are you immune, Pollock, during the hunt? He's researching game laws or something over there. Probably. What do you think the difference?

Pollock, here's one for you. What do you think the definition of a fib is? A fib? So, you know, we're talking about lies and fibs. Fibs might be more pertaining to you and I. You know Merriam-Webster or Wikipedia? Well, just random Google where all truth is told. Okay. What does it say? Well, Pollock, what do you think a fib is? It's a definition. It's kind of a white lie. Yeah. Well, what's a white lie? Look it up after fib. I mean, that seems racist a little bit. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. You probably shouldn't say that anymore. Right. You can't say those things. Minor deception. Okay. A minor deception. So, it does say an untrue statement about something minor. Can you believe that? Yes. Or unimportant. Unimportant. Where were you this morning? It was unimportant if I was on that knob or not. It's not important where I was at this morning. It's not. That's right.

What would be important is if this road was closed because the canyon from Gunnison to Delta or whatever has road construction in it. But I told somebody a lie and told them it was open so that they would get. So, it wasted opening morning. Yeah. Stuff like that. Right? That might be. John's definitely good. You're typing like it. Well, he's trying to justify his actions. Go ahead, John. What are you doing? No. So, case in point, I shoot the deer last year. People come over the ridge. Just shoot the one with the cheater on it. You know? And I was like, yeah. I'm okay. No. He had 14 cheaters and basal points everywhere. Well, not just one. Yeah. You can say that. So, not just one. He had at least one. Okay. It's all in the presentation. It's all in the presentation. Yeah. And if you're married, you are a really good presenter.

Right? Yes. Josh, do you want to elaborate on this one? That new rifle. What subject are you going to talk about? I'm strictly monitoring volume levels. He's strictly a tentative. Where's your juice box? I'm supposed to be loving today. You have your sippy cup. Yeah. Where's your sippy cup with Capri Sun in it? Where's your Capri Sun? You show me a Capri Sun, then we'll let you off the hook. But if not, you're one of us. Bronson. What? It's customary that when somebody's normally here and they're not here, that we talk about them. You mean like Logan today? Yes. Like Logan or maybe his date. He gets stuck in the hills. All right. We teased him on the last podcast, and then he went out and got stuck. Literally that night. Maybe we should even, with this podcast, load that little video clip my kids took of him. Oh. How about that? Maybe. Well, who's going to load the podcast?

Well, any of us. Oh, shoot. Can you? Oh, these guys. Oh, you can load it on Instagram. Yeah. Whatever the tiles of the different pictures that get to summarize this episode. Yeah. Well, now you brought it up. You've got to tell the story. Oh. Well, go ahead. It was kind of funny. I don't know. I wasn't here. Well, remember, he was going to. Remember, I was riding back from lunch with me and you and Logan. We all went one day. Yeah. And then he said, yeah, I'm going to go to Turkey and somewhere. I need some spots for a friend of mine. It's a new hunter. New hunter. And I just said, what's her name? And his eyes got this big. He's like, ah. Well, and he didn't want. And for some reason, it was my chemistry lab partner or something like that. Could be a boy. Could be a girl. We don't know. On the face, it looks like a girl. Obviously, it was a girl. And he was taking her.

It was a date slash hunt. Hey, it's a commando. Then I get home and I said something to the office. And he turned red. And he's like, Adam. And he looked at you and he's like, because you heard what I said. And you know him and his family way too much. So now you're going to ride him hard. Well, and that's what he feels bad. I guess I ride him a little hard. I don't even mean to. Well, it's one thing to have Adam and I tease you when Jason knows something. It's another level. Well, and he knows his dad. Very good. Paul is worse than I am. And so then he's like, well, we have a deal. We're not going to tell Paul. And I didn't tell Paul. But Paul brought it up. And now we're telling it on the podcast. Paul listens to the podcast. I mean, so he comes to me and asks for some spots. So Jason, he gives a few turkey spots. I mean, okay, my kids might be out there.

And I said, my kids might be out there. He says, well, I don't want to bother him. To Logan's credit. But there's plenty of country, too. And like, what if your kids don't go that night? I don't know. Whatever, right? And it's an evening. A windy evening. Yeah. And so I'm like, you can't hurt it. Go out there. Logan, there are turkeys. You know, let's all go have a good time. Whatever. Sure enough, Sean and Justin. So they take a video for Snapchat. Course for the world. And we're not on Snapchat. You and I. So they have to send it to me. And they come around the corner. And there's Logan. A red truck. Oh, flat, stucker than stuck. And with his lab partner. And exciting chemistry.

Chemistry lab partner. Chemistry lab partner. And so they were all just like, oh, my gosh. Here's Logan. But he's foiled because now he's rescued. The best part. His plan is foiled. And now he's like, Sean says, this is going straight to the Epic office. Told Logan that. And he's like, please don't. And he goes, no, no. This is going. The best part about that story was though, Sean said they heard Logan before they saw him. He said they were turkey hunting and heard audible. What? Sounds of someone stuck. And it didn't sound like trucks revving or things. It was screaming, wailing, cashing teeth. And then Logan came clean. He says, I had flashbacks of Arizona when him and his dad got stuck down there. Like two, three weeks earlier a month. Yeah. And so he's like, oh, crap. Yeah. And I've got. And if you know the marshals, they're very verbal. Are they? Oh. So he's the only one that.

Well, he's got a chemistry partner. But she's in the cab probably. With incredible chemistry. Yeah. Going on. But he's outside digging and shoveling and yelling. He didn't even have a shovel in the new truck. I'm going to say Sean probably said he had turkeys shot gobbling as much as he was screaming.

So funny. And it happened to be right where Justin put a hole in the radiator. Two of your thumbs. Hole. The same trench. Same trench. Same trench. And so that, by the way, that's still going. That J.B. Weld held like crazy. Of course, he broke off some ball joints. Mark my words. He's kind of. He's proud of this. You should be to get the truck home that way. That's a very proud moment. Well. Then get the ding. Get it. Get it fixed. Well, it is.

It's fixed. Justin's welded. A bird. Yeah. A bird. A bird. A big bumblebee flies through your grill and hits that spot. It could puncture it again. That stuff. I can't. Mark my words right now. It shows 10,000 PSI or something. It's like rated crazy. That stuff is amazing. It is. I agree. It is until it isn't. Testimonials. It is until it isn't. I will probably swear if I have to go find him on the Kaibab or something later with that hole resurfacing. I filled a big hole in a muffler once with that stuff. You did not. I did. And I got like some mesh. Metal mesh. Put it up inside and then JB welded it. Held forever. But it dripped on the cement on the driveway. It got hot. Never could get it off. No. Just because when it was drying a little bit dripped down. Yeah. I could never get it off the cement. Even snow show and stuff. Yeah. It was at a rental. So.

Jeez. Well. Well. Anyway. So yeah. We got vehicles running. Logan's not here. Logan's awesome. He's great. But. But. Provides a little bit of entertainment for guys like us. We were all there. Right? Yeah. Maybe not with lab partners. But I mean. We were all out and about. Doing dumb stuff.

Anyway. All right. Well. What do you think Bronson? I think we should. Talk about what we do in these tag moments. Yeah. Like when you draw a tag or obtain a tag of some sort. How do you make the most of it? It's a good question. Because sometimes you know exactly where you're going to go when you draw a tag. You know the hill you're going to want to go glass from. And other times you never set foot in your unit. And everything in between. And sometimes there may be a rare tag. Whether that be. I don't know. Mountain goat. Sheep. Something like that. That you might even consider getting an outfitter on. Even though you've never been on one of those. Just because of the magnitude. And the uniqueness. And the logistics. Sometimes you're packing in 15 miles. Or whatever. So there's a lot that goes into. What do I do now? I drew a tag. What do I do now? Yeah.

And there's a lot of apprehension for people. Even worried that they're going to draw. Because then there's pressure. Right? These tags are hard to come by. Like never harder. I mean these odds. I mean they're terrible. It's never harder. So you want to make the most of it. Absolutely. And whether that is with you family and friends. Whether that's with an outfitter. Whether it's you all by yourself. There's tools you should be using to try to make the most of it. And don't. It feels like we used to wing more 10, 15 years ago. Well tags were wonderful. Because we feel like we could get them more often. And go strike out. And hey I'll do it again. Now you get a general tag and you think you've done something. You know what I mean. Which I'm excited for. Pollock says cards are going to be charged here in Utah. What? Any day. Huh? He's affirmatively said that. Boldly. If I might add.

The most recent ex-gamey we got here in the office. I'm just saying. It's the 16th. Last year we had results on the 13th. So. Hey. So we got some general tags coming. Guaranteed. We know. Right? We're running the odds. We know. It's preference points. In regards to general deer. So you can kind of tell. And we got kids. Right? We're living vicariously through the kids. Pollock you're excited about it aren't you? Yeah. Oh yeah. Well. Utah's our home state obviously. So it's where we have probably the most lines in the water. Monks. Family. You know. Legitimate chances to draw. Like we said. A lot of them being general deer tags. But not always. We've got. You know. Pollock's in for elk. Carter name for deer. John. You're back in for deer. Yeah. Minimal points I might add. After drawing. I'm going to draw deer tags. I'm not going to draw. John. You're going to draw. Bronson.

You're going to draw. I'm a positive thinker. Every tag I'm still in for. I'm going to draw. Yeah. That's how I believe. There's some way it's going to. I'm not going to draw it. I don't know. Something's brewing this weekend. If it's not. I'm going to be really. Really upset. You are? Yeah. I just. I just had a. I've had a big. Well you're going to. There's two out of the five states are already gone now. Out of these five that are coming up. We've got Nevada, Utah and Idaho sheep which I'm in for this year. How about that? So. I got three out of five still. But I might say that two of the. Two of the three of the ones that I thought are probably the best chance. So we'll see. So when you get a tag. And it's somewhere you've been. Then we're fine. John's favorite rock he talks about that people ask if he's on. And he says he's not. And it's a little white lie or a fib or whatever. Okay.

So just to support my claim a little bit. We've also had people follow us. To the point where we've had to have decoys walk off the mountain and drive the truck away. To be alone. Yeah. Sometimes it's pretty extreme. That's right. You know. That's right. It's. Anyway. So. That's not fun. So. So if you were going to go back to Gunnison and do the hunt you did again. You wouldn't call anybody. You wouldn't even. You already have the maps. Like. Right. Yeah. You already got it all. You would start where you left off. But a really good example is when I drew that archery tag in unit 15 in New Mexico. I. You went and laced the place with cameras. I did. But I also. Got onto our member. experience database. And I got five people who had recently had that tag. Texted them all. Said. Hey. I drew this tag. And. I got so much information back before I went to put up trail cameras.

It probably saved me a day and a half. Of. Yeah. Driving roads. Finding stuff. They're rolling it down a little bit. It was amazing. I was. I was shocked. And I don't think it was. Because I'm. You know. John and Epic Outdoors. Or anything like that. They just. And it's always slow. Like. You contact them. And then they give you a little bit of information. And then you start talking back and forth. And then. The floodgates open. And they're like. Let me help you. Yeah. Well. Especially when you go out. And if you help yourself a little bit. And you're running cameras. And you. Yeah. Familiarize yourself with the maps. And you have something to offer. Like. Hey. I was thinking about this. Or I was thinking about that. People are like. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Yes. And this is what I found there. Along those same lines. If and when you want to call a biologist. Or a game warden.

That is very important too. Because. I've been in that position. Josh has too. And you get a guy. Call you the day the results come out. And say. Hey. What do I need to know. Where do I need to hunt. About. You know. Pouncing on archery. And he's. I've never been there before. Where do I need to be. That's a lot different than a guy that calls you. A couple weeks later. Has his maps. You can tell he's spent a lot of time. He knows about the dynamics. And. Let's use that. He knows. He's got a rifle hunt. Muzzle loader. Archery. He knows. By the rifle. They migrate down south. He knows. You know. He's. Asking a lot more intelligent. Leading questions. As opposed to just. You know. Calling you the day before the hunt. Where do I need to have my. Go to make my hopes and dreams come true. So. Educate yourself. Familiarize yourself. Whether that be. Online. On Google Earth.

Or something like that. Have some educated. Leading questions. You will get more out of a game manager. Doing it that way. Absolutely. Not because they're waiting for you to do that. But that. That you're going to ask better questions. If you've. If you've really analyzed the unit. The road access. These trails. You know. You know. Maybe done overlays. Of winter range. If it's a mule deer hunt in Colorado. Or something like that. You're just going to get better information. As opposed to you just call and say. Where do I need to go? Well. And that's hard. Because you could tell them. I've had a lot of guys do that. Like over in Nevada and stuff. Where. Where should I go? And. And if I tell them the best place. It might be the place with the least amount of deer. Yeah. And then they might say. Well. And they have. They might go to not see anything. And tell you you misled them. Yeah.

And not feel. No. Like. Why don't you go there. Drive around for a minute. And then let me tell you. About the places you've been. You know. Or whatever. And so. And sometimes they can change during a hunt. So. Just. Just to my point. It feels like. It's very hard to get a hold of a biologist. Or a game warden for a unit. It's hard. I mean. There's some. Plot out. That. That don't return calls. Oh yeah. I'll be as bold and say that. They just don't.

Above all and beyond all. I think the EPIC member experience database. Is definitely. Going to get you started in the right direction. Especially if it's a rare tag. People aren't going to have it all the time. That's it. They're not ever going to compete with you. No. You know what I mean. So. If you remember that. And use the biologist to supplement it. Sometimes these biologists are hunters. And sometimes they're into it like you are. Sometimes they're absolutely not. Don't. I mean. They're going to have knowledge about it. But they may not talk. The way you verbally talk. With your buddies about hunting. And how you assess a unit. You start talking size of bucks to somebody. You might lose them. Completely. Other guys. They know everything you're talking about. So. It's all just the randomness of who you get. But. But. Before you make that call. Be familiar with your unit. Map wise.

And access wise. Where you think the deer are going to be. So you're confirming. Or. Or. He's. He's confirming. No. That's not where you need to be during this hunt. That's more or less what you're doing. I like it. And for those of. Talking general. Generalities. For the most part. Yeah. For those that haven't heard of the. The member experience program. For Epic Outdoors members. It's a free. Free. Free part of our service. If you join. Then. If you join and pay us money. It's free. Yes. Exactly. That's what you're talking about. Well. But you get. You get everything else. But that one. You don't have to pay extra. I guess. Yeah. You get that for free. If you're a member. Just part of the member. Part of the membership. And giving it out all morning today. For Wyoming. Yeah. People that drew a tag. Want to talk with other members. It's normally. Not always. But it's normally.

Something that. People do. If they're self-guided. Yeah. Because if you're going to go outfitted. You've got a lot of these things. Taken care of. With. By your outfitter. Your scouting. Your camp. Your logistics. Your access. Your guides for the day. All that. So it's more geared. To a do-it-yourself. Self-guided person. Somebody that's been there. Done that. When you call. And get the list sent to you. You will go on that list as well. And have to be willing. To reciprocate information. For people. Next year. And beyond. That might call you. So. That's the nuts and bolts. I like it. And what else. You know. What I like to do too. And I get. It's. It's easier to do it on these awesome. Wet years. Lots of moisture out there. But if you haven't heard. So what I really like to do. Is. Start early. So. It's just like. It's like anything. Even though. They're not grown out. At the end of May.

Or first part of June. Or whatever. If you start July 1. Or July 4. Or whatever. A lot of times. I'd run cameras after July 4. Because you have less of a chance. Of getting them ripped off. Because people are out and about. Recreating and whatnot. There's just a lot of people in the hills. But if you start early. It just feels like. You're on top of the game mentally. Like. You can run cameras. You can rotate them. You can find new areas. You can. You just. You just feel like. Whereas if you start July 1. You got to take cameras down. Depending on the state. By August 1. Or by the end of July. There's a. There's a rush. And it's a mental rush. And it's. You can't cover everything fast enough. And whatnot. Where. Even though they're not grown out. In June. It's just being prepared. It's just like being prepared for a test. Or studying in advance. And. And just. You walk in with confidence.

You know. You walk into the season with confidence. Like. You've. You've set the cameras. Or you've been out glassing. Or you've done the combo. Or. You've booked somebody in advance. As fast as you can. And you're prepping. You're starting to shoot your bow. A lot of times. If you shoot your bow. A week or two prior. You can still make that shot. Probably. But it's. It's different. When you have this mental confidence. That I've been shooting my bow all year. I'm. I'm ready. Or the last four months. Or five months. Whatever is realistically. I don't know. If all year is realistic. It is for. Some people. And some people say they do it. And don't. But. But at least. You know. A good amount of. Prep. In advance. It makes a difference. It does. There's a whole lot. Well. And then you can get into the whole gear preparation. All that. But we're talking mainly. I guess this initial phase.

Is wrap your head around. The unit you've drawn. In some cases though. You need to make a decision. Pretty quick. On whether you're going to go guide it. If you. If you're kicking that around. Sometimes you got time. To play around. Let's say you're the only sheep unit. In a unit. All right. Draw it. And then you do it. All right. There's not a lot of people. That can book that. But there's also outfitters. That may guide that unit. But also five others. And they could get booked. On those other units. And not being able to add you on. So sometimes you think. You got the world by the tail. And. Or is it cat by the tail. Whatever. World in the palm ear hand. Something by the tail. Coyote by the tail. A wounded coyote by the tail. And the world in both hands. I don't know. I don't know. But. Sometimes you don't. Sometimes it feels like. I've drawn the best tag in the world. And.

I'm in the control here. And you. And sometimes. If you think you're going to use an outfitter. Time is of the essence. Because. You know. Great outfitters. And the best guides. The best outfitters. Will get filled up. What drives us crazy. Bronson. You and I have talked about this. Josh. You as well. Because you're consulting a lot. Is when guys. Draw a tag. Or purchase a tag. Or get an expo tag. Or whatever. They think. They are in control. They think. People. People are going to flock to me. For me to book them. They want. If I drew a PIW in Nevada. There is some. Some truth to that. A silver state. There is some truth. At times you are in a driver's seat. But sometimes you're not. You're not the only guy willing to pay. Or book a hunter. You know what I mean. Or willing to book a hunter. Well. In this day and age. It feels like. More. It feels like more people. Because of the rarity.

Scarcity of tags. And especially great tags. Are willing to. To pay for that. Because they don't. They realize. I'm not going to get this again. And that's not a bad. Frame of mind. I mean. I'm not. Even if you've been a self-guided. Deer elk hunter. Your whole life. If something comes out of blue. In Arizona. And it's really special. You might really consider it. That's just being frank. Years like this. You and I would. Years like this. Paying for the local knowledge. Well. And you may have already. Like in the case of a later year. Or later in the year draw. Like a. You know. We'll put. We'll put Nevada. Somewhat later. But Arizona. Definitely later. You may have other plans. And you're not going to have the time. To do justice there. If you've already got other plans here. And you're going to just go. Try to make the best of it. And sometimes those hunts work out. But sometimes.

They don't. So just. Don't wait too long. Have your. Have a mental game plan. In place. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I.

I. I. and then you're not in the driver's seat at some point, people get full. Outfitters get full. They do. So have that in mind. Don't delay if it's something special enough that you think, I don't want to mess this up. I need some help. I like it. So we talked about shooting bows a little bit, Bronson. You've been shooting your new Hoyt. How's it going? Shout out to them. This is going to be quick talking about it. The bow is awesome. We all have the carbon bows. But this year I also want to shoot their aluminum bow. Their VTM 34. I have a longer draw length, so that's why I went to 34. It's awesome. I got it back. I had Bobby Fromm at Performance Archery put all my bells and whistles on it, we'll call it. But shout out to Hoyt. It's an awesome feeling bow. I love it. I haven't even put an additional stabilizer or anything on it yet, and it shoots great.

And I play with those always when I get a new bow. Front stabilizer, maybe a rear-facing one off the sidebar or whatever. But I don't know that I'm going to do anything with this. They have that little one that comes with it. I love the way it felt. I only shot it one night. It was super windy. And then I screwed up my elbow. It's been a chronic problem for me for years. I've had a bad, bad elbow. Bone spur. Yeah. And a bone spur. It's been growing like an inch hook on it. And I tore part of my golfing, of all things. I'm supposed to be an old man. Anybody who does that, you can't get hurt doing that. No, blew my elbow in a swing. Lots of people get hurt golfing. I'm never going to golf. Lots? I don't know. It just feels like it. I don't know. I don't know one other one that's done what I've done. You're in golfing. You're healthy. Well, yeah. But this is. You're a healthy young man.

It was just a lot of stress on that tricep tendon. Anyway, tore it. Broke that piece off. So now it's an inch piece of bone. Broke his kicker. Broke my cheater. I broke my cheater. Floating around in there. This was a thing. As I was growing up with kids, we wrestled with your kids' boys predominantly. And I would use that as my deadly weapon. I'd put that in his back. And he would cry uncle fast. It was just the thing. It's not fair you got that sharp thing in the elbow. Well, I'm not going to have it. Because next week it's going to be cut out of me and fixed and everything else. So I haven't shot it. I can't pull the bow back. You'd need to be shooting your bow on a regular basis. I can't. I can't do that. I can't golf. Maybe accu-bow. It doesn't seem to work for a lot of people. Maybe. But anyway, I love the bow. Shout out to Hoyt. They make awesome stuff, obviously. Hoyt.com.

We've used their stuff for years. And I'm looking forward to getting back. And I don't have... Well, I'm going to have some archery tags. I just don't got them yet. Within the next couple weeks, I should. Accordingly. Accordingly. Okay. All right. So I would go into your plans, but I don't want to make you tell a fib. I won't. I won't. I won't. And so anyway, while we also brought up cameras, we sell Stealth Cam. And so anyway, shout out to Stealth Cam.com. They support us here at Epic Outdoors. GSMoutdoors.com as well. And we've got a stack of cameras. If you're looking for cameras, we've got even incredible... Brand new. Everything's brand new, obviously. But even 2022 models that are awesome. The G32s. Max. They're a night glow. Just an incredible camera for dirt cheap. 65 bucks out the door. So we'll... These are not going to last. Actually, not quite out the door.

It's going to be shipping. A little bit of shipping, but... Yeah. Might just add on some of these you're saying. These, they're not going to last. Some of these... No. We'll call them older models. They're brand new in the box. But we got 2023 cams in. So we're going to blow some of these. And we're going to give good deals on the 2023 cams, too. We have other... Yeah, we are. So we have other cameras also with cards and batteries for 50 bucks a piece. And then even the DS4K is 149 bucks. I mean, just the best camera they make. So if you're interested, just give us a holler here at Epic Outdoors. 435-263-0777. Also, any optics, things like that. Optics, it's kind of the same thing as people say, well, I've got money I'm willing to buy. I can get this at any time I want. Sometimes you can't. Sometimes there's things on back order and whatnot. And so you order while the supplies are there.

And people are getting ready for the fall hunts. They're getting ready for scouting and buying stuff. And we've had multiple years where we've had stuff in stock. Everybody's had stuff in stock. And it seems plentiful. And if you wait another month, you might not be able to find something. That's right. Well, let's give a good friend of ours, Ben Hepworth, up there in Idaho. He smashed another giant there in Idaho. Mule deer. It's in our publication. 34-inch, two teens. He says he didn't score it, but I don't know. We'll get it out of him today. Yeah. Maybe he'll tell us. I know it's not under 210. We'll make him squeal. He'll talk. I don't know if you can make Ben squeal. So he knows what he's doing. He gets the game. But anyway, he's one of the best up there in Idaho. Just a great friend. And, you know, I've come to have a huge amount of respect for him.

Been out there in the hills with him, out and about with some of our clients as well. So let's just give him a holler. See, it looks like, I don't know. I texted him and said, you around? And he goes, yeah. And he sent me a picture of a couple of dead coyotes and another dog or something. So I don't know. I just kind of want to see what's up. If he's coyote hunting or what he's doing. I don't know. Maybe he's right in the middle of smashing another couple of dogs. Maybe. If I say I'm around, that might mean something else different, you know. I'm around in the belly. In general. Let's call Craig Sanchez real quick from New Mexico. See how things are looking. Hey, man. Hey, what are you doing? Oh, up in the mountains looking at some properties. Looking at some deer and looking at some elk. We've got you on the Epic Outdoors podcast. It's wonderful.

Why would you be looking at deer and elk when they're not even growing out yet? He's retired. He's just going out and doing stuff. Well, I've got to sell some land. And if we don't have any critters on it, I ain't going to be able to sell it. Oh, all right. All right. Well. How's things looking down there this spring? Is it pretty green? You know, they're starting to green up. We've actually been getting a little rain the last few days, which is going to help. For the most part, a lot of the snow has gone in the lower country. And higher country's still got some snow up there. But rivers are still running pretty good. And lots of water to fill those lakes that were desperately needing it. So, Craig, you retired from the game and fish department. How does it feel? You miss it? You know, it was a good career. I wouldn't have traded it for anything.

But at some point in your life, the older you get, you just want to do something different and get to that retirement point and move on. So, it was a great career. But I'm happy to be retired. Are you? Great. So, most guys, when they retire, just can hardly figure out how they had the time to have a full-time job. Is that where you're at on things? Like, how did you make time to work, you know? Because you're still plenty busy, I'm sure. It is, yeah. I think I'm working more in retirement than I was before. And as you guys know, I went to work for Whitetail Properties Real Estate based out of Illinois, Illinois is our headquarters, and we've got two agents in New Mexico. And it's been really rewarding to be able to still get out and get in the woods and get on these big private ranches and work with landowners and buyers and sellers.

And I think I work more than I did when I worked for the state. But it's all good. Well, doesn't everybody work more in the private sector than when they worked for the state? No, Jason. No. That's not true. That's not true. It might be. It might be. I think you guys go in at 9 in the morning, don't you? Yeah. No, no. Well, all right. Well, I know you hunt a lot yourself and whatnot. The overall outlook for New Mexico, guys that have tags in New Mexico or obtain landowner tags or whatever, things are looking really good? They're looking really good with all the moisture. We've kind of had back-to-back years on good moisture, and body condition should be great on these animals. And I expect some really good antler growth this year. In fact, my wife saw a bull last night on her way home, and she said he already had seven points showing on one side. Come on.

Looking for some good things to happen this year. Wow. Any devil points, or was it all in-line beam? It was all in-line. She said the top ones, you know, they were still kind of short because they were still growing. Jeez. I think that's significant growth, if I'm not mistaken. If I'm not mistaken, that's good. Yep. That's going to be a good one, for sure. You don't need to tell us where. You don't need to tell us where. But do you have an elk tag in New Mexico? I do have an elk tag. Whoa. I did not. No, I'm not leading it at all. I'm just, that's good. That's awesome. Well, unfortunately, that was not in my unit, but, you know. Yeah. Well, that's good. And so, in your estimation, I mean, you've seen a lot of years come and go. Like, when you guys get water in New Mexico, is, I mean, is it night and day, the difference in trophy quality that you've got?

You know, it's definitely significant. We've got a lot of units in New Mexico that are arid. You know, they don't have running water, running creeks. So, when you do have good moisture, and, you know, it all comes down to body condition. When those animals, you know, when their body condition's top notch, they're going to grow the best antlers they can. And, you know, we're two years going on good moisture. So, you know, there's going to be exceptional growth this year, in my opinion. And not just in one place, but across the state. Yeah. Well, it's pretty awesome. And you guys have a lot of different species and whatnot. Everything's looking good. Oryx seem really good. Barbary sheep seem really good. Yeah. The Oryx are thriving. And, you know, it's a testament to the number of tags that game and fish issues on those once in a lifetime hunts.

When they're issuing that many tags, that means the population's thriving. And, you know, barbs, you know, the Barbary, they've really expanded and into different areas. And they're doing really good. Lots of guys like to hunt those. And New Mexico is a place you can actually draw a tag and go do it. That's what's crazy. I just, I think New Mexico is one of the, I think, got the most. It's just untapped potential. It feels like there's incredible potential for most species across the entire state. You know what I mean? Absolutely. There's lots of potential. It's just an effort you want to put into your adventure. Yeah. So why do they call it the Land of Enchantment, Jason? I don't know why they call it that. Craig, do you know? Why do they call that? Well, it's an enchanted place. Some people call it the Land of Manana. You know, you can articulate what that meaning is in many ways. Yeah.

New Mexico is great. We got, we got, you know, as far as I'm concerned, some of the greatest food to eat, you know, in New Mexico. And some people will say, well, you got great Mexican food. And my response is, well, it's actually New Mexican food. Because if you eat food from Mexico, it's actually a little different than our red chili and our green chilies. I love hatch green chilies. They're, they're, there's nothing like them. They're amazing. Yeah. We're pretty proud of our New Mexican food. Okay. Well, this is a hard, let's talk about big deer, big elk or something. It's almost lunchtime. So it's hard not to get preoccupied, but yeah.

So Craig, you guys have, you guys have big deer throughout the state, even though it feels like there's only a few units that everybody concentrates on, but there's, it feels like there's potential everywhere. Even in the thirties units, there's a lot. You know, absolutely. There is, you know, the, the deer numbers just aren't as high as they are in some of those units in the Northwest part of the state, like the two B's, the five B's and, you know, two C doesn't have extremely high numbers, but they're obviously known for the quality of bucks in there. But yeah, I would agree with you. If a guy was to actually put a lot of effort into any, any unit in the state, um, there's no telling what kind of buck you can turn up. Um, just gotta, gotta work a little extra hard to find them. Well, obviously I'm going to have to get a little bit more thinking outside the box because

I'm not drawing deer tags in New Mexico. So I'm going to have to start doing that. I know Carter's been consulted with me, Adam. That's why. Well, Jason seems to do pretty good. Yeah, he does. I don't know. Have you seen what I've killed? I may do okay on a tag. I may have a tag in my name. Yeah. But no, Craig, I let him be the Guinea pig, but the problem is if he ever hits a home run, then you're not going to be able to draw it, follow it again. So it's like, yeah, I'm looking for something. I'm going to have to do something different. That's, that's for sure. Well, lots of different opportunities over here. So, you know, just, uh, you'll, you'll get there. Just, just, uh, you know, follow Jason's lead. He knows how to do it. Craig, you're, um, you've, you're, you're hunting some big deer and some big animals and some, you know, just off the wall units.

And I think it just a testament to the potential across the entire state. And it's not like one, you know, it was not like a formula for it. It's just a matter of getting a tag on the right year, maybe not forcing it. You know, Adam and I have hunted deer in some of the 23 when it was less than desirable. Just when your kids are nine, you're just whatever you can get. But it was terrible. Yeah.

Kill the coyote in the two point box. I mean, that was, that was a, that was a, but for a nine year old, that was pretty epic. Yeah. Pretty crazy. Jeez. So anyway, but yeah, just, we're just super excited, I guess. And just wanted to kind of visit with you. And, um, I don't, do you have any fun game and fish stories or anything like that? Well, I probably have a few, but I don't know. Some might be, have gag orders. Any of those.

Oh, it's gotta be kind of a rewarding career. Really? I am the one game warden that got rushed off in an ambulance to the hospital after an antelope beat me up. So what? What? Okay. You're going to have to dive in. I know. I know. I know. Adam's all about the pronghorn. Adam's all about the pronghorn right now. And he's already counting his chicks before they hatch. He's already planning on some tags and some succulent antelope meat. But tell us about this. And if I, and if I could remember what happened, I would share it with you guys that I had a level three concussion from it. Were you trapping? Were you trapping, transporting? No. No. It was a, it was a buck that was caught between the right of way fences. And he was going to cause an accident with a vehicle. So you decided to go full linebacker. All I know is I went down there to get him across the fence.

And next thing I know, I wake up that night in my bed at home. No way. He came, you got linebacker mode and he ran you over. I did. Oh, that's exactly what I got. I was the quarterback and I got sacked hard. He went straight back. Whoa. So he was the aggressor. Oh yeah. Absolutely. Whiplash. He owned you. Did you have somebody there watching it? So, or did you lay there in the bar ditch for 20 minutes? Oh, so, so what happened was apparently I kept calling the dispatch and asking them what I was supposed to be doing today. And I'd call them over and over and over. And finally the dispatcher's like, yeah, something's wrong. So they sent out the airplane and state police to go try to find me. They knew, they knew where I was at generally. Yeah. And when the state police officer found me, he said I was hunched over my steering wheel. I was dirty. My asp was expanded. My door was open.

Your what was expanded? My baton. Oh. I thought you said. Expanded like you were trying to fend him off. I thought you said. So you're. Yeah. Well, what I think happened. What I think happened was because I had some photos of my camera. And I took a photo of that thing before he beat me up. I think what happened was I got out of my truck and I got my asp out, my baton, and I expanded it. And I tried to shoo it across the fence. And he was laying there. And I think he jumped up and hit me right in my gut and knocked me straight on my back. Whiplashed you to the ground. And that was it. Lights out. Wow. Geez, I'd give video to see what happened. Oh, yeah. Me too. And I'd like it to be a, you know, 800 pound elk. But it was an antelope. It is what it is. 73 pound antelope. It wasn't a coos deer. A little embarrassed to admit that, but yeah, I got whooped by an antelope. Was it a buck?

Was it a buck, did you say? It was like a 96 inch buck. Oh, yeah. 100 incher. Yeah, I'm sure. It's probably a fawn or something. I don't know. Craig, tell the truth. Was it a buck? Yeah, it was a buck. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Of course. Stocky. I got the pictures somewhere to prove it. Have you seen them, New Mexican bucks? They're big. Husky. They are on the right ear. They're big. And I think they weigh like 600 pounds on the hook. Well, that is a first. That's a cool story, though. It is a cool story. Yep, yep. Well, guys, I think I'm going to lose you. I don't even know how to lose you. Sounds good.

Before we get any more embarrassing stories, yeah, we'll see you. All right. Take care. All right. Thanks, bye. That's a good one. Yeah. Oh, jeez. I've done that, got knocked out. But those antelope traps, Paul, they can get Western. Oh, yeah. You can get, there's a lot of hair and body parts flying. All their blood sheets are coming off. Yeah, they lost their sheets. So there's just like 10-inch daggers sticking out of their head. Yeah, spikes. And they're bleeding sometimes because they just popped off. And hair, their hair's flying off as you're grabbing. I wonder there's an affection for these things. No, there's no affection. No. It was fun for about the first two times. And then I just was like, yeah. You know, I'd like to coordinate which ones are going, which trailer. You can even occasionally get a helicopter that has a hard landing on one. You're trying to herd one in. Oh. Okay.

Wow. Put down an A-star right there in front of everybody. Oh, that did happen. Yeah. Didn't it? I was in the back seat. Oh, so let's dive into that real quick. Don't leave us hanging. It was like the biologist that was there, he wanted to play more of a role inside. So they herd the antelope for miles and miles. They have the big wing fences that are built. Yeah, they'll stretch out like a two-mile opening and then you just get them herded into that. So they just herd it with a helicopter in anyway. What for? What's the purpose? To trap them. Reduce densities there on that unit and then transplant other units. They were full fuel and four people in it. Yeah. So we took off and he was trying to teach me. Well, the pilot brought somebody else that was there that day that wasn't really planning on being there. But he was maybe going to be a potential pilot or something.

Anyway, so there was four of us in there. So it was a little bit heavy. And it was the first group antelope we saw for the day. And we went up and got them herded in. And they started going, well, the trap, kind of this particular trap, it kind of takes a pretty good hard left turn. And we kind of came into it anyway. He got around. Well, there was somebody. There's some big gates that they'll close. Once they get them into this little stretch, there's some gates they close. Well, there was somebody that was there. They have like some brush that's piled up that they kind of hide behind. And when the antelope all get past them, they'll run out and close the gate. But somebody anticipated a little too soon and like got up right as the antelope were coming. And it spooked them. And so they all just kind of came back. And so we went back around to get them.

He kind of like flew back to get them. Probably went with the wind, lost power. Yeah. Anyway, I'm obviously on a pilot. But you fly back. And we kind of got into a little bit of a hover position where we were backwards and went to go forwards again. And he just lost all his lift. And we just went straight into it. Bam. Oh, smack the ground. You still got back problems? No, no. For a few days I did. Did you? Mm-hmm. Scary? Wow. Well, it was just it actually wasn't at the moment. You're just like, wow, did this really happen? Because when you're doing surveys and flying and that stuff, like it's always, you know, it's always a little bit on the edge of is this right or not? You know, so you just don't know. But all of a sudden it was like, oh, we're not going up. Oh, yeah, we're definitely not going up. Oh, we're going to hit the ground. And it just hit.

But enough that the tail boom twisted down and broke. So there we were. There you sit. There we were. Trapping was done for the year. Well, no. So we had another helicopter there. By noon, my gosh. Try the second one. Fire it up. Well, they had another helicopter that was there. And that's what it was. They're like, well, Josh, why don't you go ahead and jump in with him? And I was like, all right. You did? You went back up? Yeah. Oh, wow. So I got the whole next day. And we flew. And that was. And then we were sitting there flying. And you'd be herding these antelope. And they try not to get them to run fast. You know, they just get them moving. So they get back quite a ways. And as they'll move in the same direction, the pilot will move off. And he was a South African guy. Really cool dude. But we were sitting there flying. And all of a sudden, he'd be like, oh, there's a coyote.

And he'd like. And he'd leave the antelope. Go down there and just start chasing the coyote. And we were. I mean, from six feet off the ground. He's just like. And I'm like, please. Just go back up there. Yeah, please. Offload some fuel. Kick out anybody extra. I can't even shoot this thing. He's going to get away. This coyote's getting away. And just needlessly. Needlessly harassing wildlife. Pull off and go. Non-game. Get back with the antelope. Non-game. Anyway, yeah. What are the percentages of people who survive a helicopter accident? I don't know. Is it pretty low? Or is it. I mean. I don't have a lot of experience. 50-50 might be even higher. I don't know. Wow. All right. Let's. Let's try Ben again real quick. See if he answers. Talk about some deer up there in Idaho. Hey. I had a whole gold. How about that?

Hello. Hey. What's with the coyotes? Oh, I'm out calling coyotes today. Are you? Oh. Yeah. You don't work on weekdays?

Hey. I work harder on the weekends and the evenings. Oh, do you? Gotcha.

All right. Well, we don't want to get you in trouble. Everything going good? Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's going real good. Hey. Why don't we just want to talk about a 34-incher? Do you want to talk about one? Oh. Sure. I mean, they're always worth talking about, aren't they? Yeah. You had good luck last year. Maybe just, I don't know, Ben. You've been a part of some big deer up there. And, of course, we're all getting ready. We're kind of excited for this year. But I don't know. You know, it seemed like a decent year last year wasn't great. But then you ended up finding a giant. So there's always potential. Well, and that's, you know, that's something that I say. I've always, it's weird here because you do see the years that it's not. And you don't have very high hopes. But you get a, you know, you still run across them. So it always gives you the mindset, which is hard as if it's a good year.

And I guess that's what keeps all of us going. Yeah. You know, we did, had a buddy that had a general season tag. And, you know, everybody's talking about how horrible the general hunts are and which they are really rough. And, you know, we killed a 205-inch buck on the general tag last year. Jeez, just on an over-the-counter. On an over-the-counter tag. Wow. And, you know, it always just lets you know to keep pushing. You don't know what's out there if you don't go. Yeah. You specifically had a muzzle tag, right? Was it a muzzleloader? Yeah, I drew a muzzleloader tag last year. And that was kind of nice. A good buddy of mine that had some property, he, you know, allowed me to hunt it. And that was super, super special. I've, you know, I've gotten to be a part of some really big deer in 45, and I've never got to take one myself.

So that's my first personal 45 deer for me that was a big deer. So that was really special as far as that goes. And I mean, like you say, there wasn't many that came out. So it makes you feel that much more fortunate about it. Yeah. Well, and I know you wrote a story for us, but maybe for those that haven't heard it, you, the deer, you'd seen it earlier in the summer, but you took it down to the wire of the hunt before you got him killed. The wire. Yeah. It wasn't like, yeah, opening day, smash and grab and head home. You know, it was the whole, the whole hunt. No, it, it, it was, it, uh, you know, I didn't even actually see and lay eyes on him in the season until, oh, until like the 10th day or so, it's 14 day hunt. I mean, it was, it was starting to be a, a real mental grab and grind. And, um, you know, it's, you know, at that point in time, it sucked and I hated life,

but now look back and, and it was sure rewarding.

Pretty awesome. You know, you killed a, it wasn't a 220 buck on one of those general over the counters there, what, five, six years ago, it seems like. Yeah. Yeah. Great, big, heavy, old, heavy, gnarly. Just a, just an old school. I call him an old school buck. Just one that you see back in the gray and white pictures that score don't really do him justice. And, and, uh, you know, I, I mean, I, I never thought that I'd even get a shoe one comparable and, and, uh, this happened this year. And so I, I hold them both. Matter of fact, I haven't had the one mounted yet. Cause I, I like going in and holding them about every day, maybe twice a day. Oh yeah. Don't tell your wife. It's more than once though. Don't tell her.

My wife always likes when I get them mounted. Cause then I don't do, I can't do that anymore. Now they're up on the wall. I'm just, look.

You're not packing them around like a, like a little kid with a new race car. Pretty much. Yeah. What about, what about this wide? Wasn't it a three by last year? I want to say this giant wide. Yeah. So I killed a, um, I was super lucky last year and drew the, um, drew a 45 muzzleloader tag on the, um, on the, uh, second chance drawing in Idaho. And, uh, you know, it was, it was the same kind of deal. It was a, it was a really rough season last year as well. And, and just couldn't, you know, couldn't find anything to, that really, um, you know, it really was big and mature and, and I was, you know, I had seen that one through the summer and scouting him as well. And, uh, you know, on the last day of season, I, I decided to go, uh, harvest him or at least try to harvest him to, you know, just, just cause I mean, he is a, he is a big old giant

deer, just, you know, didn't have what it takes to, you know, wow the world, but the whole wide factor in three point, you know, is, is wowing enough for me. I, I like chasing mature deer. It's not necessarily the number. Yeah. And so it was, it was a fun, that was a super fun. Fun as well. And I, uh, I don't know. They sure, they sure get in, in your blood and, and make you push hard. How wide was he? Remind me. Uh, that one's like 33 and some change, you know, uh, 33 and a quarter or 33 and a half. Yeah. Something, something to that, you know, heavy and big eye guards. Uh, really just, uh, a cool buck. You know, I, I always wanted one of those pack frame mounts and that's what I mounted. Yeah. Paul, he fits it. Josh has got one of those in his office. They look pretty cool.

You know, it's something that I don't feel you'd want to put a buck like this year on one, but just an old bruiser. Oh, come on. Throw a 220 on a pack frame and just chop him off at the skull. Call it good. I like holding them. I don't even want to mount them real. I like holding them. I do too, but. Yeah. But they sure look beautiful when they're mounted up too. Yeah. Cause it's like, you can't have it both ways. Unless you, no, this day and age you can. Get some repos, man. Yeah. That's, uh, that's me too. I get, you know, the older I get, I just want to hold them all the time. I don't want them to be on the wall, so I can't. So, Ben, how do you, what would you recommend to guys, like, besides hiring people or whatever, but how do you make it happen? Like, how do you go about scouting once you find the tag, like, or you get the tag, find the tag, acquire the tag one way or another?

You know, there's a lot of ways to acquire tags across the West, but, I mean, once you have the tag, you know, what do you think about, I mean, you know, obviously local knowledge, I think, is, you can't trump that. And that's definitely what you, you've been successful with, you know, is you just have knowledge. I mean, you, you live there and you live for it and whatnot, but what do you, what's your suggestion to guys on how to scout and, uh, when do you start and how do you make it happen?

You know, I, uh, I mean, I, I look every day that I can and I think, I think, uh, that's the biggest thing that, you know, I don't claim to be better than anybody or, or anything, but I, uh, you know, I just, you just put in a lot of time and, and I think at some point in time you'll get rewarded. Um, you know, uh, you can't be out there, you can't be out there a whole pile of time until, you know, something, something good happens to you, you know? And I think that, I think that, uh, you know, that's, that's what I always claim for that's helps me is even when I feel like I'm getting my butt kicked or whatnot, I just, you know, you just wake up and go again. And, uh, and at some point in time it, it pays off, you know, it might not pay off this season, but I mean, no matter what, when you're out there, you, you gain a little bit more knowledge of the area. And, and I think that's key.

Yeah. So if you didn't draw a special tag, you don't draw a 44, 45 or whatever, you know, a bunch of different country in Idaho, then you're, you would be making the most out of even a general tag or whatever. And treating it like, treating it like it's a special draw tag, just working it hard. I, I do personally, I mean, uh, as much as I can with, uh, guiding and stuff. And, um, I treat, when I get an over the counter tag, I, I try to spend as much time as I can up there and I try to scout. And I mean, just cause I, just cause I have an over the counter tag, you know, it doesn't change my expectations. It doesn't change my mindset to something for a, uh, for a mature deer. I, I mean, I like going up and, um, I enjoy seeing deer just as much as killing one.

And so, you know, the over the tag, it does get a little overwhelming cause, you know, you might not, uh, you might not see, you know, you definitely won't see the numbers and you definitely won't see the decent deer, but you still, you know, there's still that opportunity that I feel, um, you know, is to run an into a great big buck. And, you know, when they start migrating out of some of our high country hunts and stuff into more of our lowland draws, is it, uh, you know, you never know what can happen if you're just there, you know? Yeah.

I, uh, you know, I don't know. It's just, it's just mule deer hunting to me rather I, rather I see one or get one up there. And I, I think, you know, it's, it's helped be able to shoot some, uh, more mature deer in the over the counter stuff. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, I don't, I don't feel like I need to harvest a deer. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, it's, it's treated me right. That's all I can say is it's treated me right on it. Well, and that's part of the reason. I mean, you can go 10 days into a deer hunt without seeing your target deer. And you wouldn't have killed a deer if you just shot a nice deer on day one through 10, 12, 13, whatever. Which you attempted. You probably were. I mean, I don't know. You might have had opportunities at 180 or something. But when you see something special and, you know, like you say, you don't, don't have to shoot one if it's not what you want.

Old, mature, whatever. It doesn't have to be a scoring buck, like you said. The year before was a big, wide, old four by three, but that's, that's hard to do to hunt 10 straight days for a deer you know is somewhere around, has not been killed, but you don't have any eyes on it. And you haven't. And then all of a sudden, one day it changes again. And you got a buck to hunt for a day or two until it's over and got lucky and made it happen. So wouldn't have been, you know, that deer. You know what I mean? As I get older, I just, you know, I get better about, you know, if I see a really nice buck, you know, not that, not that I don't like seeing him and like enjoying what he has to offer as far as a visual. But I always sit back and think, you know, am I, you know, am I going to go back and tell my buddies like all the last day bucks, you know, that's not, that's not what I want to do.

And I don't, I always am super happy no matter what anybody harvests, you know, as long as they're happy with it. And so I, yeah, I, I think as you've, I guess for me, as I've matured, it, it really helps just being okay with not being successful as far as not sitting in the tag. Right. Amen. I like it. Yeah. Yeah. What's the outlook up there, you know, for 2023? Can you tell you? Um, you know, I've heard some mixed stuff through, uh, you know, people that's talked to fish and game and people that's done this or that. Um, I think our low country deer did really good. I think, um, they got, um, they got potential or, you know, some of them have got potential. Yeah. Um, I think, uh, some of our deer that tried to hang up in the high country, I think, I think they got hurt.

Um, so I do think that over time we're going to see, you know, we say this every year, we need to have something breakthrough for them so that, you know, at some point in time, our high country deer need to take the stress off of our low country deer. Um, you know, cause I mean, us as, us as hunters start going after, you know, what, wherever they're at, wherever they're at. And so we, you know, the low country deer, the last few years have just, they've really just taken a beating and, and so you hate to, you know, you hope that one of these years, the darn things will catch a break.

Um, they, uh, you know, the, the positive things of fishing game did start cutting some, cutting some doe tags and stuff. Um, that, that I think will eventually help. And I, I hope they continue. Um, a lot of people reached out to him this year and said, you know, we want help for the deer. And, and, uh, I think they were starting to get pretty open armed to, uh, to helping the deer out. And that's a good feeling, you know, for our, our kids and younger generations to come on, on that too. Yeah. In my opinion. Yeah. Um, I, you know, I think there's some, there's definitely, from what I seen last year, if they made it through, there's some rising stars. I hope one of my kids or something, one draws a tag. Yeah. Or maybe yourself. Well, you won't be able to actually this year. No, not unless I could get one on the second chance. Yeah. You know, and, and, uh. Yep.

That would be, that would be a super cool deal. Tell us, tell us the story on this double, double dog set that you, you just smashed a pair of dogs. Tell us a quick story on it. Well, over the past, you know, five or six years, I've gotten into coyote hunting pretty bad. It's became a horrible addiction. And, uh, about a year ago, I decided I wanted to get into decoy dogging. Yeah, because I saw one of your dogs off to the side, so I didn't know you were into that. Yeah, I, uh, you know, last year he was a pup, and I, I went through this, uh, fall without killing a bunch of coyotes. I, I called quite a few in, and, um, he, uh, you know, he got some exposure to it. And just, just today, matter of fact, he just turned it on and, and has done it. You know, I, I, uh, I just, matter of fact, I missed your first phone call because he was, uh, running sick, or running four coyotes.

And, uh, you know, it's, it's a little, he's, uh, turned into a family pet. So I get, I was a little nervous, you know, trying to, trying to cover him just for a second. Yeah. But let him, but let him do what he's supposed to do. And, and I mean, it's, it's, uh, I mean, my heart was racing. I, I, I just, uh, you know, I killed a couple this morning and just maybe 20 minutes ago, I, I killed two more out of a four pack that, uh, you know, and it's, it's bad. Cause my heart's racing and, and, you know, lights me on fire. It's not for everybody, but what do you mean? I don't know. Anybody doesn't like to shoot coyotes. You're talking to a hunting crowd right here. So pretty much everybody's going to like what you got to say. So what breed you got, what breed of dog you got? You know, I, I got a border collie.

Um, I got a border collie just cause I was hoping that he would be a dog that could be around the kids and be around the family. And, and, uh, you know, I know some people run some pretty hard charging, gritty dogs and, and, uh, that'd be really super cool. But, um, it's also cool. Cause this, you know, like this dog for me, just, he goes with me every day. He, he does a ton of stuff with me. And, uh, I mean, you know, watching him do what I actually got him for was, was super cool today. And, uh, Bring him in on a string. Is that what you mean? What'd he do? He did. I, I took a, about a five minute video, um, that, you know, he's chasing these coyotes out there a couple of hundred yards and, um, you know, and then he brought one up to probably 20, 30 yards from me and, and, uh, you know, trying to get him to do the right thing.

I've been pretty patient about not shooting them and trying to get him to understand the game. So that's a little, like you want them close. You mean you letting them bring him in close before you shoot? Is that what you mean? Yeah. You know, just letting him, uh, work. Really? Yeah. Uh-huh. And so it's, it's a, it's a new game for me for sure. And, and like I say, I, I mean, I feel like you, you get to kill some coyotes and maybe, maybe help a deer. You might, you know, maybe pull some pressure off a deer and one will, one will give you an attaboy one day.

Maybe. Yeah. Make it easier to kill them. I don't know if we can interpret that, but yeah. It's, it's restful thinking, but hey, taking the pressure off deer and fawns, getting close to that in the next month. Hey, that can't hurt. You know, I, I don't think it can either. And, and, and, uh, it's, um, you know, it's becoming a, a big passion of mine to, to call a bunch of coyotes and, and chase them. And, and I mean, next to a mule deer, I feel that, you know, I definitely feel they're the smartest critter we chase. Oh, yeah. Just, just the amount of pressure they get. And so it, uh, they intrigued me because you can go out and just absolutely win one day and think you've, think you've reinvented the wheel to it. And then, uh, the next four times of calling coyotes, you, you get your butt kicked and, and they win. Yeah. And so you're, you're, you start back over the next time.

So it's cool to me. Yeah. But, you know, nothing, nothing will ever take the place of deer hunting. That's for sure. Yeah. Well, there's obviously when deer don't have antlers enough stuff all winter long spring like this, it's a great thing to be doing. Okay. I agree. Okay. Well, we'll let you get back after it. We'll appreciate you spending some time. Probably. All right. Probably cost you a kill or two. Don't want you to stop the momentum. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you guys. And you have a good day. Okay. You too, Ben. Good. Congrats on the deer. All right. You bet. Thank you. You bet. Kind of makes me want to get a dog. Oh, yeah. You got a couple of dogs. It'd be amazing.

Your dogs would be amazing. They're the yappiest dogs? You can put one in each cargo pocket. Those would be classified as bait. And you can't bait. Can I bait them? That's the next step for Ben. He needs to be baiting those wolves somehow. Those wolves hate dogs. They come straight. You're yappers. The problem with a dog is they're like. You know. What's a border collie? 40, 50 pounds. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're like a third the size of a wolf. Oh. And the wolves can run them. They don't got a chance. Oh, no. You don't. You know. But if you could get them to bark. Yeah. Just get them to howl. But you better have their back. Yeah. Because your heart's going to. Yeah. But look at that picture. That's going to happen. Or the coyotes in the border collie right there. That's going to happen by accident. You should throw that on. That's awesome.

So what's the basic idea with that? I've never. Well, you either see them. Or you hear them howling. And then you get out. And you send your dog out. And do a loop. And then this time of year especially. Is they've pupped. And so they're. Yeah. They're protected. They're very protective over their territory. And so they see another dog. Or coyote even. And they're coming to their territory. They're coming to run them off. Yeah. And then that dog plays with them. Stays out and lures them right back to you. And you dump them. Yeah. That's what. That's what he said. Yeah. You had five minutes of cat and mouse. Bring them back. Right. And then gets them close enough. The dog's got to know to egg it on enough. You can't just outrun them and smoke them. And run back to you. You've got to be bringing the coyote. But it's. It's fun to watch. You know. John Bear does those too.

We've talked to him about it. But it's. It's a whole different thing that didn't exist. I mean. You have to really sink some time into it. Yeah. It's. Those dogs are like a. You know. In terms of training. Like bear and lion dogs. Yeah. You're a different. There's a lot of time that goes into making one a good one. Yeah. How much time do you have in a day? You know what I mean? Yeah. It just boils down to. You've got to choose your poison. I mean. Are you going to be a shed hunter? Pick your hobbies. Decoy dog hunter. Mule deer hunter. Or. Colfer. Yeah. I'm not that for. You're going to be fine. You could take this up. Huh? You've got some time now. I've got to do something. I'm going to go crazy. Lots of scouting coming up. All right. Well. Speaking of that. We want to shout out to Triple S Polaris. 435-865-0100. And they'll set you up a bike. You know. Whether it be a Razor.

Or a Ranger. Or whatever. Whatever it is you need. Four-wheeler. And customize it to your needs. It'll be gearing. And lifts. And tires. And all kinds of things. So anyway. Really good at what they do. Colton Francis is a good friend of ours. Anyway. Down there at Triple S Polaris. They'll take care of everything you need. And we've got one from them. That has the lower gearing. A Razor. And just. I took it out on. Was it Friday night? My kid was like. Yeah. Hey. Let's go. So. We went. It was like rock crawling. And I was dang glad we had the lower gearing. Yeah. It was awesome. Just awesome. I was just like. That thing can go places. Yep. Unimaginable. Just awesome. I like it. Yep. All right. And I'd like to also. Give a shout out to Fierce Arms. I've got one in the box. I still need to set up. So. Excited about doing that. I've set mine up. I just need to shoot a little bit more.

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Anyway. You can go check them out. Fierce Firearms. We appreciate them. And their support here at Epic Outdoors. So. All right guys. Well. That's about good. Let's. Yeah. It's time for lunch. Or something else. Huh? Yeah. Let us know. A lot of draw results about to come out. So. Hope to hear from you all soon. In the next coming days and weeks. So. Good luck. We'd like to thank all of our sponsors. Here at Epic Outdoors. For top of the line. Hunting. Clothing. And apparel. In every environment. Visit UnderArmor.com. We'd like to thank Under Armour. For being our title sponsor. And making this podcast happen. Visit our website. EpicOutdoors.com. For discount codes. To Under Armour. Hunting apparel. Handcrafted. Quality. Precision rifles. From start to finish. Red Rock Precision is one of our sponsors. And many of our staff uses Red Rock rifles. Visit RedRockPrecision.com to find out more.

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