EP 293 (Part 1): We're Back! Muley Season Recap, The Craziest Elk Hunt Ever and an Epic Dose of Minersville Culture

Anything to do with Western big game.

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Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Josh Pollack, John Peterson, and Cash. What's up, fellas? Oh, Logan, geez. Always here. Always here. I guess you're a permanent fixture. That's right. Although we moved your office, how about that? Yeah, I'm enjoying it. Got you out of the dungeon. We got a little bit more space in here to do the podcast. Yeah, just didn't want you to have the nice furniture. I was kind of sick and tired of coming into a nice podcast room and have it be your office. Right. Well, I had the biggest office. Biggest office, nicest office. Big old TV in here. The most privacy. Yeah, we've opened you up there. That's true. Now you're going to have to work. You can't hide. No more slacking off. Right. No more sleeping. Right, John? We have to sneak out of a podcast. We don't have to knock over everything off his desk to get out. That's right. These are good things.

We're going to get more work out of this. Juice box, millennial box. We're going to get more work out of juice box or Gen Z. Brown bean. Brown bean. That's not brown bean. I can't be the new one. All right. Go ahead. Why don't we talk about the brown beans? Where'd that come from? John, do you want to? So apparently, we were doing kind of a lunch order, and apparently in the specific place where Logan's from, pinto beans don't exist. They're called brown beans. Or refried beans, apparently. Or refried beans. Those are mushy beans. Those are mushy beans. I thought they were the same. No, Logan. I'm sorry. Here's a test for you. So here's a test, Logan. Do you know what the Minersville sandwich is comprised of? The Minersville sandwich? Yeah. Your dad taught me this. Is it the one with bottled deer meat and mayonnaise? Okay. That's disgusting. Yes. He did make me have that.

No, that's so good. Speaking of mushy, that's the mushiest meat ever. I can't eat it. Have anybody out there in the big wide world eaten bottled meat on a regular basis? It's something you put in your food storage, and it's a last rainy day, very, you know, the atomic bomb, whatever. Bunker. It's bunker food. Bottled deer meat is a delicacy to me. I love that stuff. Okay, well, no, Minersville sandwich is made up of, like, Miracle Whipper mayonnaise or whatever, and mustard and meat and cheese. That's it. Meat and cheese. Well, that's what my dad eats, but I don't like mustard. He always called it the Minersville sandwich. Yeah, that sounds about right. Anyway, so anybody out there, you can, those Minersville sandwiches are something to behold. The kind of cheese and the kind of meat you get might be important. That's all that's in it.

But anyway, all right, so then we got the mushy beans and then brown beans. What else? What other kind of lingo do we got over there? We got Minersville milkshakes, which is when you dump a bag of peanuts in your bottle of Pepsi and drink it. That one I don't like. It's not as good. Yeah, but that was, I was raised with that. Really? Yeah, I was. Yeah, my dad always did it. Yeah, you have a little bit of Minersville heritage. Yeah, I do, but I didn't know it was a Minersville milkshake. That's what they call it. That's what I grew up calling it. It's not. It doesn't even make sense. So those of you not from southern Utah, Minersville's a small, small town. 800 people. Is there 800 there? What is it, an hour from here? Yeah. I think it's probably one of the few towns that's losing population. Probably. Probably. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't argue with that. But it's very significant.

Beaver County in general is very significant. It's an hour too close. That's all I'm saying. It's not either. We can't be talking about Beaver County. Three hours. It would be better. The only thing they've got is hunting and Brooklyn. I wish Nevada would take them. I kind of wish Nevada would cut a finger out of Utah. Really? Take pig beaver with them. They'd have to take the Southwest Desert though. You want that? Brutal. Have it. Josh is willing to make sacrifices. They said heaven begins on the west side of the tracks, which is Southwest Desert. I toured the pig farm once when I was in high school, like in an ag science class. I've never even done that. Don't.

Scarring. If you get bit by a pig, you're going to have some disease. I saw things. My memory is not the greatest. I'm not Wyatt. I don't believe that. But there are things burned in my mind from things I observed at that pig farm from people from Beaver County, whether it's Milford, Minersville, Beaver, whatever. I can't unsee. What they did to the pigs? I just can't unsee. The processing? No. The mass killings? No, they don't do any of that there. Just the propagation.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't want to know now. I'm kind of disgusted. As a young man, it was shocking. This might explain Josh a little bit. Yeah. And Josh's. He was scarred. Demeanor. His personality. And some of the things he's thought processes. There's like 10,000 sows or something per barn. Have you ever heard the sound of 10,000 sows doing an estrused scream at once? What does it sound like, Josh? It's unimaginable.

Wow. I mean, I have permanent tinnitus from in there the one time. There's 10,000 sows and they're all in these little like pens that are like all side by side and there's rows between them. Yeah. And they obviously do all their breeding and stuff in there. And so I don't know if this is standard for every pig farm in America or just in Minersville, but they would then turn like a boar loose and he'd just take off running down the row. And 10,000 sows all at once trying to court him. Wow. Yeah.

That is unimaginable. That is unimaginable. Yeah. That's how it feels when I walk into class. Oh. Wow.

Wow. That is not believable.

Logan, there is a lot of people that listen to this podcast. I think there's maybe not even one that would believe that.

We might cut that. I'm just kidding. Logan's mom might believe it. There you go. Yeah. He's a nice boy.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that. But it was just because beyond that, it just got weird. No. So. All right. Well. Okay. Here we are. We're sitting here at October 20th. It's been an absolute grind for many, many people, including us. It was one of those years where everyone was so excited. But rain equals antler. Antler equals happy hunters. Yada, yada, yada. But rain also equals a lot of feed. And water everywhere. And the game spread out. The game doesn't have to come to. You know, here in the West, we have a lot of burns and chainings and what they call, you know, reseeded type areas and things like that. And so there was nothing like that. Those didn't matter in many parts of the Western states here. Especially the arid parts. Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, things like that. Anyways, interesting. Interesting year. New Mexico had an incredible elk year.

The guys, you know, the outfitters are happy. Hunters are happy. They're having, you know, good success, so to speak. I mean, there's a lot of misses out there. I'm hearing a ton of that. But that's kind of normal. I think generally speaking, there was good quality bulls for anybody that hunted hard. Is that what you guys kind of. Is that your feedback? Yeah. From talking to a lot of hunters. It seemed like Arizona did really well, too, with the elk. Yeah. Arizona did good. There were some units that was interesting. The rut was off in a lot of the units. Yeah. And then the rut was on in some of the units. Unit 9 was incredible. Giant bulls. Incredible rut. Archery hunters. Whatever. Every, you know, people that had kind of the earlier hunts just loved it. Right? It was incredible. Yep. Unit 10 had a little bit of that.

But then some of these units, they killed a few very, you know, giant upper echelon bulls. And then it was just a good year. Yeah. Maybe so-so to good year. Not bad. Not incredible. So, it just kind of depended. Seemed like unit by unit. Didn't seem like it was. 2023 was what we were kind of thinking a lot of people were going to be the year to remember. Similar to like a 2019 kind of thing. And it, I don't think it was. It wasn't like it was bad by any means. But it was a weird year. Especially for elk across the West. I think a lot of guys had complaints about some rut. Some weird rut stuff going on. Or lack of rut. Yeah. A lot of guys were saying, oh, it's late. It's late. It's late. And then it occurred at some point. But I think it maybe happened in the middle of the night. There's calves with cows every year. And you're like, how did they get bread?

They didn't even have a rut this year. Right? Yeah. We did have that big, huge moon kind of right during the sweet spot. A lot of the rut. And so, I don't know. I don't know how that played into it or not. But fairly warm temperatures, too. We did have a few cold days. But some warm days with the moon. And we can come up with all the excuses we want. But I think that definitely affected a few things. It just didn't seem like it was really a hard rut, you know, for a week or two straight or whatever. It was pretty well across the board. Yeah. Cash, you get the same vibe? Yeah. It seemed kind of sporadic. I ended up on a unit in Arizona. The year that we spent last year down there, man, it was going on and everything. And it was the same time this year. And you would have done anything to go back. This is a lower tier unit considering Arizona. It's a lower tier unit. Not one of the best.

But you were like, I'd absolutely go back. I loved it. Yeah, we were excited to go back and everything. And, man, when we got there, you go to every water. You go and you look at tracks and wallows. They were all a week old. Crazy. But the hunt was pushed back a week. So we thought it would be fantastic. Yeah. But it ended up all the bulls, you know, they'd moved off the unit. There was a few scattered around. But, man, it was very desolate for rut action compared to the year before. And did you guys get into bulls? A couple. A bull. Like it wasn't near what we expected it to be. Like a tenth. Yeah. Like maybe that. Maybe a tenth. And then just kind of called it a day. Did you hunt the whole time? So I was down there. I spent a week with my father-in-law. Then he went back down. And he got into a couple bulls. But, I mean, things happen. It's hunting. Yeah. It didn't kill.

It's what it is. But, man, the rut just wasn't there when we were there. It was a week. From all the signs, it was a week, ten days earlier than when we were there. Yeah. John, any experiences you're hearing or Logan? Just ghost deer, man. Ghost.

Yeah, John. John's been helping me a bit here and there. I'm sorry. Scarred for life. Logan? That sounds about like what I've been doing, just chasing ghost bucks. I managed to get one in the general muzzleloader. It was awesome. Last day. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, a buck I hadn't seen before. So, I was pretty excited about him and then just got my dad and brothers I'll be helping with here in the rifle. Yeah. That's awesome. So, the rifle starts tomorrow. Mm-hmm. Here in Utah, we have a rifle hunt that starts tomorrow for generally the majority, the lion's share of our rifle hunts here for mule deer. And so, there's a lot of excitement in the air. There's some of these units just didn't produce the very top end deer that we thought they would produce. And not that we, just generally speaking, the industry. People were super excited about the pond scot. It was good, not great.

Is that what it kind of felt like to you guys? Yeah. Yeah. I think it was definitely, definitely a good year. But, but. Definitely solid good year. Again, like not a 2019. I don't know. You know, one of those kind of things. Yeah. Definitely, there were some big deer killed for sure. You would hear, how many 220 type bucks were archery muzzle? Not one, right? Or right close? Yeah, there were a couple. A couple. There were a couple. Right there. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. A lot of, like, 200 inch deer. Yes. 205. A lot of 190s, 200. Just great. 205. Yeah. Stud bucks. One of the best units in the state. Really managed. Somewhat tight. Oak Creek, similar. You know, similar results there. Henry's very solid. Very solid. San Juan. Yeah. Very, very solid. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's what it feels like. And so there's a lot of anticipation of what's going to die tomorrow. Guys are working hard.

And there's going to be some great bucks taken tomorrow. The rifle hunt always brings some great bucks. So, pretty fun. A lot going on. Pollock, you were in on your brother's elk hunt. Yeah. Kind of ended up drawing a tag. One of those, you know, mid-rifle seasons. So, one of these new, the new seasons. Yeah. That they had available to us. Yeah, it was. Didn't really know what to think about it. They've had a few on a couple of these units. I'd say kind of more of our mid to lower tier units. Younger age class units where they've been. And they've decided this last year to do it statewide on all of the units. I don't know. Didn't really know what to expect. But it was exactly what I had, in a way, dreaded. Or was worried about, in a way. What do you mean with all the spike hunters out in the field? Yep. Yep. Just, I was worried that it was going to be a mess.

Obviously, we kind of thought, my brother didn't have a pile of points. But he had a lot of points. Enough points that he wants to draw. And sick of not drawing kind of thing. And he still got lucky and drew a random. He really wanted to draw a tag. And so, I said, well, our best chance is probably going to be. Because I knew this unit was going to jump. And like some of them did this year, quite significantly. And I told him his best chance would probably be this hunt. And he still got a random tag. Still got lucky. But he was, you know, in the upper tiers of point stuff. So, he had a good chunk of names in the hunt. Yeah. Yeah. But he still got lucky. And I don't know. Here in Utah. Yep. We were kind of worried about it. But it's one of the units that's just new this year. Didn't start like October 7th. Yeah. Started October 7th.

Which the bulls were actually still quite screaming their heads off. But we were in a unique portion of the unit where there's a lot of private. And it holds some elk. And so, it causes a little bit of a rut fest that lasts longer. But oftentimes, you can't get in on it because it's the elk are in private. So, it makes it a little bit tricky that way. But, yeah. You know, the one thing I think about that I think would be kind of nice is when you get these limited entry tags, you want to go scout. I get a little paranoid thinking if you don't have a bull found, you're behind the eight ball on it. And this hunt was a little different because we were trying to think, you know, at this point, that's when bulls start leaving cows. So, there could be bulls all across the unit or out wandering. Some still might try and be with cows.

We were kind of thinking, well, we'll use it to our advantage having a bunch of other guys out there because we've got a lot of friends that hunt this unit. And we thought, you know, if they see something, they'll let us know. Kind of use some of those hunters to our advantage a little bit. But probably the biggest thing that I'd like to recommend for them or wish they won't listen to me. Who's this, Game and Fish? Yeah. Yeah. One thing that I may want to consider about that hunt is… They don't care what you say, Josh. No, no. No, absolutely not. There is a… But I do. So, go ahead. And my opinion really does not matter. But there's one day break in between the muzzleloader hunt that's just occurring and this hunt. So, it'll go up and the muzzleloader hunt goes up until Thursday. There's Friday. And then this hunt starts on a Saturday. It's one day break.

It's not going to do anything to the elk as far as help them out or hurt them, whatever. It's one day. They're not going to know the difference. But it would make a significant difference on this hunt because if you happen to have a bull found, then that gives you one day to potentially get a bull killed before the onslaught. Because basically, that's kind of what had happened. We'd gone in a few days and finally got on some bulls, found three good bulls that were in this particular canyon. And for two days, you know, mornings and evening watches, those elk were doing the same exact thing. So, no brainer. You'd say, okay, if this was the limited entry, standard limited entry hunt, you'd just go in there and let them do their thing and kill an elk. And it wasn't going to be that big of a deal. And so, that's what we did.

We got up really early one morning because we knew at the same time, I just knew this was a spot where spike hunters hammer. This is opening morning. Yeah. And the spike hunt starts the following day. Yeah. So, the spike hunt starts Saturday, which is the same start date as this hunt, which this is a limited entry hunt. You waited 20 years, whatever. So, your point is just do them back to back. Do them back to back. You'll give us one day to kill our target bull before the spike hunt is correct. Yeah. And then whatever happens, happens after that. But if you could have that, it would have been significant. Give you a better experience. A little better experience. Yeah. A little better limited entry type experience. Which we do that on, like, say, the archery or things like that. They'll give it. Yeah. Yeah. There's some lag time and such. But anyway, so we did that.

Got up really early, hiking in the dark for a couple hours to try and get in above where these elk were going to be to put us in a position. We were sitting there for a while. Cash came up to kind of get up behind us a little bit. There was some stuff where those elk might be if they pushed behind us. And so, we had him on a point back there as well. And my brothers and I got in. And we get in there and all of a sudden the bugles start happening. It's still pitch black. So, you're kind of in your mind thinking, okay. And you're remembering what that one bull, because like I said, in this area they were bugling just a little later. What did old lump lump sound like? And it was like, okay, that's kind of what that bull, you know, each bull kind of has their distinct bugle sometimes. And we're like, okay, I'm pretty sure that's him. That's where he's been.

So, he's doing what he's been doing the last couple of mornings, coming up out of this bottom, up towards this timber. So, we were just similar to the sow barn. Yeah. Yeah, very similar. Like you got some – you're starting to recognize these. Yeah, exactly. You're starting to recognize the voices. Yeah. So, we got over there off to that side of the ridge to where we could get a shot, being able to shoot across the canyon. We're just kind of sitting there waiting. It got light enough, we picked up the bull. He was – I mean, he was still a good 1,200, 1,400 yards away from the shoot. He was your target bull? Yeah. You knew what he sounded like. Yep. And we saw him, picked him up. He had an extra point coming off one of his fourths, so he was pretty recognizable, even in really low light. So, he's coming up the ridge, and we're just – I just told my brother, I said, okay, just wait.

He's going to come to like 500 yards, and we'll shoot him when he gets there. So, he's coming up and just working with the cows. Listen, and then all of a sudden, it started to happen, like orange, orange just starting to pop. You know, guys are coming out. I think people will put more effort and energy into a spike hunt or a cow hunt than they would a branch bull hunt. Well, in Utah, think about – In Utah, it's your only chance to kill an elk every year if you want, or a year. And whether it's a spike or not, like, it's your only chance to elk hunt in Utah. So, Utahns take it pretty serious. This is the pumpkin patch. Yeah, yeah. I would say it's – I would say this spike hunt's significantly busier, and people are a lot more aggressive than even the deer hunts and stuff. Yeah. They get pretty crazy about it.

And so, anyway, guys start coming up, and at that point, that's – there were some guys came right up over the ridge, and they do weird stuff too. Like, everybody's – just because everybody's trying to get in front of everybody else, you know. Yeah. And maybe somebody's already on your spot. All the while, you guys have got a branch bull tag. Yeah, and so we're all hunting the same elk, not the exact bull, but the same elk anyway. Yeah. That elk got pushed. He got bumped before he could get into where he was at, and then it was – after that, it was a nightmare, because there were probably 70 or 80 cows easily, and they were in some different groups. Well, they all kind of got bunched together. Down off the ridge below us, where we couldn't really see them, it was thick timber, they started kind of going nuts, and then all of a sudden, shooting started.

A significant amount of shots above us, in front of us, below us, all around. And to the point, you're kind of like, gosh, I don't know what to do. Like, you almost want to get next to a tree and just hope that it'll get shot. And so there's elk running everywhere. But you probably – it wasn't your tag, so you probably didn't have orange on. I hate wearing orange. Well, I did, because I had a spike tag. Oh, all right. At the same time. I'm not trying to incriminate you. I would wear it. Even if you didn't have a spike tag. Yeah, I told Cash to wear it. Oh, I'm so glad he told me. I was sitting on a ridge, and I could see four different groups. I'm like, man, I'm glad I have orange. Like, holy crap. Because you've got elk under you, you don't even know it, and somebody's going to lob it around over you.

I've got people coming under me, over on the ridge, elk running through, and I'm like, man. And this is like a premier limited entry experience. It's a premier limited entry unit for giant bulls. Yeah. One of the best in Utah. Yeah, I'd say. And this is our once-in-a-lifetime type experience. Keep going. I mean, they may – So I told Cash, I'm like, make sure you bring some orange. And it was also to maybe deter some folks as well, if you did. Like, hey, that's the knob we were going to hike to. It was, ah, somebody beat us to it. And it's just a guy with some vinyls. And he's got orange, and so he's just got a gun laying down on the brush I don't see. Yeah, it's just a guy with vinyls, but who knows. But anyway, so we did that. The elk came out. They took off. We spotted him again. He was taken off, and they were on a beeline for the private, basically.

And it was like, well, the morning's over. Like, it was over before it started. Literally, the sun wasn't even close to coming up, and it was – we figured it was kind of over. And then I started to get a little bit nervous or whatever. Anyway, the elk kind of pushed over. As soon as they rounded the ridge that way, obviously a bunch more shooting occurred, and they started to work their way back. Found that bull again, but he was kind of hanging up. They didn't know what to do because as soon as they came back around our side, they started getting blasted again. They were surrounded. So, yeah, they were just kind of sitting there. Well, at that time, I started just cow calling as hard as – because we were probably a good 1,000 yards from the elk, but I just started laying on the cow call and just hoping that, like, the lead cow would hear me and think, okay, let's go that way.

Because it is kind of their – the reason why we were at was kind of in a place where they – if they don't go to the private, they come up past us. Yeah. So I was hoping maybe I'd get them to pull and come that way pretty hard. Well, out of kind of nowhere off the top of this other ridge, a couple cows came flying up over the top of the ridge. That wasn't with that big group. And the bull that my brother shot and another bull were right behind him coming up over. And it was like, ugh. After he'd killed the bull, it was one of the bulls I'd seen the day before, but it was madness. Like, I tried to get him in a spot. You know, he'd practiced shooting and stuff. We knew where he could shoot. And I told him, I said, they're going to come through the ridge right over here. They're going to get to 700 yards or whatever, and we've got to let him get to there first before we get a chance.

And so I just had him get all set up on that, and we started waiting. And then it was a matter of guys still shooting or whatever, and we told him we're trying to decide and size up this bull as he's running to us on this ridge and trying to figure out if it's something we really need to be killing opening morning, whatever. Anyway, he was a big enough bull. He was a plenty good bull. Different bull. But different bull we hadn't seen, and so we're kind of in a frantic hurry. You're on the fly. Judging him on the fly. I was telling him to get dialed. He really wasn't looking much. He could kind of tell he was big, but my other brother and I were kind of getting him sized up, and we both decided, yeah, if you want to kill that bull, he's definitely not. Worthy of the tag. He's one, yeah, for sure. So anyway, shoots the bull, hits him one shot. Just crushed him.

Yeah, yeah, it's one of those things, you know, guys, Jason, you're a firm believer in a 300 rum, and a lot of guys, you know. I like a .30 caliber bullet. Yeah. But, you know, a lot of guys are going a little bit lighter, don't want the recoil. They want to be able to get back on their, you know, target acquisition for the second, third shot, whatever. But it feels like with a 300 rum, a lot of times you don't need a second shot. No. You know. And that was exactly what. It's hard to, but on paper, your energies might even be similar, but it just, 30 caliber bullets just, they do something to them. So I bought a gun at your advice and even got made fun of it a little bit. I'm like, oh, you're going to shoot that. Well, not by me, the other boys. Yeah, you're going to shoot that thing. Oh, you're going to, do you like your teeth or all this stuff. And they're not here today. Exactly.

So we can say whatever we want. And I do have a little more man meat and stature about me. You're a significant human. Yeah. So I could probably. Josh is a significant human. I can take a little more force. So honestly, shooting that gun, I don't, it's just like shooting a gun. It's a muzzle break. It doesn't matter. Yeah, exactly. It's just like shooting any other gun. So anyway, so he shot that bull and it actually looked like he'd spined him the way that it was. And this is why I say I'm a firm believer in it because he hit him high in the back of the lungs. But there was like just so much force when that bullet hits. And I mean, we're talking at 700 yards. When that bullet hit, it went in just high lungs, but it had enough force that it actually went up and broke his spine. Is that unbelievable? Yeah. It just blows my mind. So it hits high lung.

And that one bullet, he just like, it ruptured. Ruptured it. Yeah. It pushed the spine up enough that the bull hit the ground. He was trying to get up. We were thinking, and I thought, oh, crap, he's spined. We're going to have to get another shot on him and that sort of thing. The bull's trying to get up and he's going down the ridge. And actually died because of a lung shot. Yeah. And so we were getting on there to him. We kind of lost him a little bit because he'd gone into some deadfall. And my other brother could still see him. And I told him, well, we're going to have to go over and get another shot on him. So we take off down the canyon, start getting up. And as we go down the canyon, the spike comes squirting out. I thought about shooting him. How big a boy are you? I did have an attack. Because it's not just you're driving the side by side up there. No.

How we felt eight hours later when we got to the trucks. Glad you didn't shoot the game. I'm glad I didn't add any other meat on there. Wow. And so. Remember you had, didn't you have a guy walk up to the bull? Yeah. So we're getting over there to him. And my brother, my other brother, he stayed there to watch. And he said, hey, wave your hands. And so we're waving our arms. And he's like, yeah, I don't see you. I'm like, well, we're, you know, it's like in a burn, yellow grass burn. And he couldn't see us. He's like, but there's, he's like, I see somebody close to where the bull was at. And I don't see you waving your arms. And I'm like, there's no way. And so we get moving farther up the ridge. He's like, wave him again. He's like, wait, I can see you. But he's like, yeah, there is somebody up there where the elk is at. And I'm like, oh my heck. Standing at the bull. Yeah.

And there were shots after he shot that bull too. And so I'm thinking, oh man, here we go. We're going to have to. Put one in him right there. Yeah. You know. Yeah. He was dead and put one in him and you're going to have to tell him, no, this isn't your bull. Yeah. So, so. Thanks for the shot in the butt. Yeah. Exactly. Ruined some army. Thanks for the gut shot. So we get up there just to cross this little rise to where I could just about to start to see where the bull was at. And here, here's the guy standing in orange and he, and I, I thought about yelling at him. I was just to point to yell, like, stop. Don't like, well, I don't know what you're doing, but we've got a dead elk or an elk right here that we might have to shoot again. Just stop messing around. I don't know if he's a spy hunter, another bull hunter, whatever. Well, as soon as he sees me, he turns and we're 50 yards.

He just turns and starts walking as fast as he can away from us. So I'm like, okay, I guess we don't have to fight him for an elk or whatever. What did he do to our bull? But yeah, what the heck's. Anyway, I don't know where he came from, who he was. The mystery man. What it was. But yeah, he was, he was standing on, he was standing over the bull. Do you think it's possible he was thinking the spike I'm about to shoot could be like this majestic bull, but. And I could be that guy standing over a majestic bull, but instead I'm going to go shoot a dean. Yeah, I'm going to go shoot. I mean, do you think any of that crossed his mind? I don't know. How many of these majestic bulls are dying as spikes? I, yeah. I think. A lot.

So yeah, I don't know. He, anyway, he went down there and just walked off. And literally just as soon as I was watching him walk off, I could see that bull's handler sticking up from the brush. I'm like, oh, geez. Well, the bull's dead, I guess. So. But yeah, that's when we got up there and discovered he was shot high in the lungs. He just needed a second to die. And it just ruptured his spine. Yeah. And it was crazy because pulling the back straps off and stuff, there was no, I mean, there was nothing wrong with him. They were pristine, perfect, whatever. Just that force and the concussion. And it was loose. Like it was broken. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, it was broken for sure. And it was, it had just pushed it up and broke, snapped the spine. So why don't you, a little shout out to what bullets were you guys using? Yeah, we started using this new Norma. It's called Bond Strike.

I think they're similar to, they're supposed to be. Similar to an Acubond. Yeah, kind of more like an Acubond. Like a bonded, they have a lead core. Yes. Uh-huh. Yeah, it's a bonded lead. It's similar. They're saying better re-season flight. Kind of similar to like the ELDX. The ELDX is a pretty popular bullet that gets shot. But it has, it's more, it's bonded more. So. Holds together. Yeah. And you felt like, was it a complete pass through? Do you remember? I'm trying to think off the top of my head. It probably was. It was. It was. Because I looked for it and it wasn't in there anymore. Okay. So it, yeah, it was a, it was a great bullet. And one that the gun shoots good. I've been shooting it out of my gun. I haven't killed anything with it, with that gun. But I was extremely impressed on a bulldog bag. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I'm going to rupture some spines. Wa-cah. Wa-cah, wa-cah.

So it was good. We, we got down to the bull and, you know, obviously celebrations and stuff began. So that was pretty. So was this before or after the medic flight? Oh man. As if, as if it wasn't enough of a circus in the morning. Yeah, exactly. So Cash, this is where you come in. Oh man. Yeah. Did you happen to hit your SOS button? No, I did not. So we, I mean, they, they get the bull down. They're like, Hey, we've got him down. Come around, come over to us. I said, okay, I grabbed my stuff. I dropped down off the ridge. Bring your frame pack. Yeah. And so before I dropped down the ridge early in the morning, there's, I mean, there's people walking in. There's three people that walk underneath the ridge I'm on and they go out to this kind of lip and they set up and I'm like, okay, there's people there. They've been there all morning. So I pack my stuff up.

I dropped down off the ridge and I got to walk right through them to come around. So I'm like, well, I better go talk to them. I'll screw them up. Maybe help them out or whatever. Yeah. So I get over there and there's two people standing there. So I'm like, well, okay. Like didn't even think anything of it. Didn't even cross my mind. That there was three people before until after. But I talked to him like, hey, hunt spikes. I got to walk through here. Like we have a big bull down and this guy's face lit up. Like happiest guy you've ever met that I just told him we killed a big bull. Nice. And I was like, hey, we just killed a big bull. By the way, grab your frame pack if you want. And he like lights up and he's like, there's not a big bull hunt going on right now. He thought 100% he was getting a tag. Oh, no. And I said, no, the mid rifle started today. And then it was the pure opposite.

Pure disappointment crossed his face. We ruined his hunt. It was so fun. Ruined his spike hunt. Oh, my God. He thought he was looking for that poaching reward. Oh, he was stoked. Stoked. And so anyway. I get a free spike tag. Wait, wait. That's given to me anyway. I don't know. What do you want, guy? I guess a bull tag. A limited entry bull tag. I don't know. Game of fishers, your spike tag. Okay. So anyway, I get over around the ridge, get over to the bull. And we're sitting there working on him for, what, 20 minutes maybe? Yeah. And all of a sudden, we can hear a helicopter coming. Well, I guess keep in mind. So when we had done that, my wife, brother-in-laws, my dad, those kind of things, we didn't have service up there. So my brother and I both had like our in-reaches. Right. And so I was trying to give my detects to whatever.

And I just hit the check-in slash okay button or whatever just so that they could all have a location. Sure. Because I told her if you get this message, you need to come to this point. And, yeah, bring the pack. We'll bring whatever. We're going to be packing an elk out. So come here. So we had just kind of done that. And, yeah, just chilling for a minute. What cash had got there or whatever. So, anyway, keep that in mind. Just hit the check-in button on the. Not the SOS button. Yeah. So about, I mean, 20 minutes working on this bull. A helicopter comes over, and they're circling right over top of us. And we're like, that's a freaking life flight helicopter. What is going on? Yeah. So they're circling, and Josh is like looking at his in-reach. I know I didn't hit it. You have to flip this up and hit it. Did you hit it? We're like, man, are they going to land on us?

Somebody owes somebody $25K. Yeah, exactly. They were circling us. They're no joke. Yeah, they were circling us. And low, too. Low, yeah. Like they were looking for someone. Yeah. And so they go over, and eventually there's a meadow over. Not crazy far, but they go over, and they land. About 10 minutes after that, UHP helicopter comes. Circles the same thing. We're like, what is going on? Wow. Like, man, we might have screwed up. Yeah. But we're like, there's no way. There's no way. So eventually their circle kind of gets closer to the life flight, and they get really low, and they start lowering someone down. So I see that, and I'm like, whoa. They're lowering someone down on that ridge right where I walked across. And so I get my spotter out, and I'm looking, and there's people. I find the people through the trees sitting there, and they're working on it.

Like, there's a life flight that has walked over. They're working on a guy in the grass, and I can't see anything or whatever. And so we're like, okay, well, it's not us. That's good. That's a good thing. We're like, man, with the war zone going on here. Spiked back branch. Back to eating your granola. We're good. Exactly. Exactly. And so we're like, man, did someone get shot? Like, there was a lot of bullets flying around. Someone might have got shot or broke their leg or something. And so anyway, we're looking at the ridge, and I'm like, man, I walked 20 yards from where that is. From, like, where they're sitting. It was basically where we were shooting. It was probably going through something bad, a heart attack or whatever, while you walked by him. It was pretty much where we were shooting from, where my brother had shot. It was the same kind of point.

It was basically all right there. Yep. And so, man, I got thinking about it. I'm like, man, there was three people that walked underneath me. There were two when I went through. That's got to be one of those three. And so anyway, later we find out that, I mean, they load the guy up and everything, found out, had a heart attack. You did find out? Yeah. Found out, had a heart attack, and died right there. He died? Yeah. I didn't hear this from you guys. We just found this out the other day. Oh, wow. So, man, I've thought about that, and I'm like, man, I walked 20 yards within someone dying, you know? Yeah. So, like, heart's up if you're listening, man. Yeah, it sucks. If that happened to you and your family, I am sorry, and man. But, man, I think about it, I'm like, man, I walked right there. Probably it had to have been right around the time it was happening.

I mean, it could have been earlier. It had to be within two minutes or something. Oh, yeah. Easily. Easily. I mean, they weren't cash. Did you hear the guy's name? Do you know? I know people, basically, that- That know him? Yeah. Oh, no kidding? No people that know him, basically. Yeah, kind of thing. Sad deal. No kidding. I did not know. I don't know exactly where they're from, but I know some people that I know. It's like somebody's dating somebody, and it was her dad, 50-something years old. Oh, geez. Early 50s, it sounds like. I had no idea. I didn't know you guys would figure it out. We just found that out the other day, so- So, yeah, it was an eventful morning. It was wild. It was the weirdest. It was just a weird morning. It all just happened so fast, and it was over and done with. And now, looking back at it, it was a tough hunt for quite a few guys.

I think there were a few people that I heard of and knew that didn't kill a bull. It just gets weird because those elk will just start leaving, and they don't go to- They're not on a winter range yet. They could be just a lone bull walking through the timber, and that's hard to glass up. That's a bit country. I don't care how burnt it is, whatever it is, wherever. The whole unit's just thick. Yep, it is. And there's a lot of flat stuff that's thick with the burnt timber. And, yeah, so it's- I guess, if you're listening, I don't know. If you're thinking about one of those mid-hunts, definitely- 15 points or less. Definitely something to think about. Like, you're not- It's not a limited entry experience, I guess, is the main thing. Obviously, we got lucky, killed a great bull, and it was awesome. But, John, you were hunting in that same spot with your muzzleloader. Oh, yeah.

And how many people were back in there? Nobody. It was awesome. It was. It was like the hunt of a lifetime, just pristine. It felt like it was wilderness. We didn't see another person. It's awesome. Just, you know, Jason came up, you know, once in a while, and you came up once in a while. Yeah, John sets his camp up so we can come and go, you know? Plus or minus what we got going on our hunts in the office. So, yeah, I had, you know, a person here or there that would come and help me, but they were all- everybody was with me. Yeah. It was awesome. So, yeah, it just shows the difference. Yeah, like you were the only big branch bull hunter in there. Yeah, in there, you know. And I don't think any of those other guys that were there when we were there were big bull hunters at all. I think they were all spike hunters.

If they were, they could have killed bulls that morning, but nobody else did. We saw a couple dead spikes as we're going out and all that stuff. And so, yeah, it's just a unique experience that I guess still, if you want to take those chances and whatever, I mean, it's a long hunt, so that's good. You get long days, but I don't know how many long days you like to be kicked in the butt too, you know, sometimes. Jason, how does that feel? 30, 60 places or whatever, but at some point it starts getting old. I always thought you were a jack wagon. At some point it gets a little old. It does get old, but I'm good with it. I'm like, I'm hunting specific deer one or two. Yes. Yeah, anyway. But you kind of expect that. I expect it. With that tag. Yeah, no, I expect it. In a way. But if I'm, if it's my once in a lifetime, which I ate my elk tag too, by the way, so

I did draw a trophy bull tag here in Utah, did archery and had a 380 walk by me and I passed him because I'm like, this is my one chance at a 400 back when Utah was first producing them on, let's say, a somewhat regular basis. It's never really regular, but that was back a long time ago, long time ago. And so anyway, of course, I'm a young kid. I'm like, you know, I've got my whole life to figure this out. Well, you know, it's, it's no joke trying to kill a 400 inch bull, you know? And so anyway.

But it was awesome. Do it again. Yeah. Do something different. Maybe even. So. It was awesome there with, you know, friends and family and, you know, my brother had been waiting forever to do that. It was a significant stress relief off of his life just because when you get a tag like that, it's, it is stress no matter what. Well, yeah. You, you made his year, maybe made his next five years. Like he was just so appreciative. And it was an awesome bull, you know, big bull, just perfect. Did you end up measuring him? We didn't. But just significant. Like he's a 360, 360 bull. Yeah, easy. Yeah. Like super heavy. Heavy, heavy sucker. That was kind of one of those things I think about him. Not, there wasn't anything that was a hard, a little bit hard to judge him on the fly. There wasn't like, oh, he's got a big back end or he's got big thirds or his fronts are big.

You know, usually a lot of bulls will have something that's, that's a little bit like John's bull. Unreal, unreal fronts. You know, that kind of third. Heavy fatties. You know, and so there's something that you're just like, but he was just like, you're just like, man, he's just a big six point, you know. But when we got up to him, that's when you kind of, you know, appreciate it a lot more. I mean, you can put your hand like up against his fourth and his beam and your hand just gets hidden, you know, just heavy. And that's the kind of stuff you don't necessarily see a lot of times until you get up to him. And then you're like, well, like mass is something you don't often realize until you get a hold of him. So that was awesome. Just like a big old heavy sucker. So, yeah, it was good. So great. Just awesome.

And that's, you know, that's a, one of your, you know, stomping grounds with kind of some, we all have our favorite units, you know, that we know well or spend a lot of time in. And so it's nice to actually take one off the mountain once in a while. Yeah. Oh, yeah, it is. Yeah, it's weird. So, yeah, now it's kind of, you know, my brothers and I all started putting in for elk a billion years ago when we started. And that's where we start. Now all three of us have killed a Utah bull, I guess now. So it's a little bit almost weird to think like, oh. You're done. Now you're like, oh, geez. What do we do now? Because you always just kind of plan on one of us. You kill branch bulls before they're branch bulls. Yeah. Well, this is a 400-incher. I swear it, guys. You've got bigger spikes than I've seen in a long time. Yeah. You've got a beam on this spike.

I just smashed an incredible genetic bull. Yeah.

But, I mean, with that being said, like, you know, that unit had a big burn on it a few years ago. And it completely changed how those elk acted and what they do and their habitat and all that stuff. And so, honestly, because of years of spike hunting, and I haven't killed that many, but whether it's archery, muzzleloader, rifle, whatever, all those years of hunting those elk, which I guess that's the benefit to doing that. Sure it is. And general deer. 100%. Yeah. We knew, that's how I knew that morning, like, this is the point we need to be on. Because if we come down here, we're going to be with everybody. If we come over here, we're going to be with everybody. We need to be already up there and in a position with those, if those elk bump, this is what they're going to do. And so. That's what you call local knowledge. Yeah. From all those years.

And that's not something that, and I even told Cash, I'm like, hey, Cash, I don't remember what I told you. Basically shut your mouth. Well, yeah. Didn't you? What did I tell you, Cash? Shut your mouth. Oh, yeah. It's not secret. It's secret. Oh, there you go. It's not secret. It's sacred. Yeah. Obviously, there's a few other guys around. Yeah. That's what I told him. I said, it's not a secret spot. But the knowledge and things from what we have. I think you're publicly telling Cash that you're going to castrate him if he says anything. Oh, if I see him up there again. I think you're saying that on the podcast. I mean, I'll remember that next time he killed a big bull. It's not a thing to say it to say it man to man, but it's not a thing to say it to 15,000, 20,000 listeners. All of America.

No. And you know what? I wouldn't blame him one bit if he did. No. And I would just mean into the fact that what we did that morning was a secret in a way because it's taken all those years to put yourself in a position. Everybody can hunt an area. It's like we've been hunting specific areas. But there's a difference when you hunt an area and you hunt it. You're constructive, smart about it. You know it. You know what the deer are going to do or the elk are going to do or whatever versus somebody just driving down the road and they happen to be in your area. Yep. You know what I mean? There's just a difference. And the way you go about it and whatnot is why that area will produce for you is because the way you go about it, you know what the game are going to do. You know the area. And that's local knowledge.

We had a guy, you know, we've helped a lot of guys, you know, each and every year on their tags and whatnot. It's one thing to tell them to go to this area. Yeah. And they do it. We talk to them on the phone or whatever. They've gone to the area. I haven't seen anything, you know. And it's another thing to say, yeah, but did you do this? You're still within that area, but you just take it for granted when you look around. Like, I should be on that knob glass. And by the way, it's going to take me 45 minutes to drive here. It's going to take me another 48 minutes to hike the knob. And then I'm going to want to be there at this time. And I'm going to want to look at this direction at the crack of daylight. Yeah. You know, so it's another thing to know the area versus just send people to the area, you know. And so, anyway, I'm sure those spike hunters are smart, though.

They learn fast, you know. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, you've got guys that make a family tradition out of this. Oh, yeah. It's a big deal. Cash is welcome to go hunt there anytime he wants because he helped us get that stupid thing off the mountain. And you're going to help him pack his spike off his future branch bull. Branch bull. Yeah. Branch bull. Oh, he's got to draw a branch bull? Yes. Oh, you're not just going to go help him pack a cow off the mountain. No, because that's not a spot where. No. That's not a spot where. It's brutal to get out of. I will go a lot of different places to kill a spike than there. Yeah. You guys, there's like 20 other people in there. They are. That were willing to work harder than you. That's okay. That's okay. That's fine. Wow. I don't need. But we killed a bigger bull than that. Yeah. That's all that matters. That's all that matters. Yeah. Oh, boy.

Okay. All right. Well, let's see. Cash, you spent some time on a whole different elk unit here in Utah. Yeah. How'd that go? That was really fun. We spent a lot of time in the summer. Archery tag, right? Archery tag. Yep. My uncle-in-law drew it. I know it wasn't a random tag, so he had to have been one of, I think it was, he was one of three. Jeez. And there was one in his point pool that didn't draw, I think. But, uh... That's what people struggle with. I think there's a lot of people out there that... Yeah. The drawing odds have two sides to it. Right. The number of applicants, but then you've got a number of tags. Mm-hmm. And when you have spike hunting like we have, or, say, rifle rut hunting, muzzleloader rut hunting, archery rut hunting, whatever, all the rut hunting, the mid-rifle, which was tail end of the rut, so we hunted them. Pre-rut, rut, mid-rut, post-rut.

But, you know what I mean, and you end up, and then you've got the spike hunters in the middle. It ends up, you know, the branch bull tags and the trophy premium quality tags are, you know, very sought after and very, you know, minimal in number. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Hard to combine. I mean, so it's hard. Our elk management's awesome in some ways, and it's frustrating in others because it does become a once-in-a-lifetime type tag. Yeah. Like what you're talking about. Right. He waited for, who knows? 20-something years he waited. I mean, it was over 20. For this archery. For an archery tag. For an archery tag. You know, in a lot of states, you can get an archery tag over the counter or whatever. Especially as a resident. But, yeah, especially as a resident. And so, anyway, no, we spent a lot of time up there. I went, I ended up, I got the text, hey, we hit a bull.

I was sitting here at my desk, and I just told Wyatt, I said, hey, I'm going to pack out a bull. See ya. And Wyatt's like, go ahead. Off you go. We went up there and made the trek in there, and man, it was a sweet bull. It was like right around that 390-ish type bull. And it wasn't even the one that he was after going in there. He really maximized the tag bull. Yeah. Those archery hunts are no joke. They're not easy. It was not. No, it wasn't easy at all. Especially with the weird rut, kind of didn't kick in great, but it started to towards the end and stuff. He ended up calling the bull right in, you know, and 15 minutes before that, called in the bull that he was after in that area. It wasn't the bull he was ultimately after, but another bull that he spotted from a long ways away. And they went in, called him in, didn't get a shot, and thought they called him back in.

Ended up being a different bull, and he smashed him. Jeez. Like 45 or something yards. Yeah. This hunt had some ups and downs. Yeah. Like this is one of those that had the highs and the lows. Like we found them. We didn't get them. Yep. We found some, you know, and it gets to be day after day after day after day. Yeah. And you look, I mean, after, I mean, 2020, looking back on his hunt, man, that was, you couldn't ask for a better experience. Yeah. As far as the emotional roller coaster. Yeah. And being able to come out with a bull that you're super happy with and everything. Yeah. It ended well. You know, it ended really awesome for him. And he learned a ton. Yeah. A ton about the unit. I mean, he lives. In general. Lives in the unit, you know. Yeah. Has the local knowledge, stuff like that, but he still learned a ton.

And, man, I don't know if he's ever had a better experience on a hunt than that. Wow. Overall. Overall. Middle of the hunt, man, he kicked him right in the butt for a while, you know, and it turned it out, turned out pretty good for him. Yeah. So. Oh, it's all good. Jeez. We are going to wrap up this part of this episode right now in an effort to get it out to everyone a little bit faster. So check back with us tomorrow and we'll have the next part of this episode out. Good luck on your hunts, everybody. And thanks for listening. We'd like to thank all of our sponsors here at Epic Outdoors. For top of the line hunting, clothing, and apparel in every environment, visit UnderArmor.com. We'd like to thank Under Armour for being our title sponsor and making this podcast happen. Visit our website, EpicOutdoors.com, for discount codes to Under Armour hunting apparel.

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