Ep 297: The Renewability of the Western Mule Deer, Muleys Matter Wrap-up and 2024 Show Schedule

Anything to do with Western big game.

Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast.

Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, John Peterson, Logan. How y'all doing today? Doing good. Just dandy. How about that? I like it. Hey, it's been a while since we've done a podcast, Bronson, John, but Bronson's kind of my sidekick on every podcast. So anyway, what do you think? I guess we need to put out two or three this week from what people are telling me. Yeah, we're getting beat up. You know, emails. Hey, how about you do some podcasts? Kind of lazy. We've been a little bit lazy. Well, we haven't been here.

November was a rough, long month. We were hunting and scattered all over. Then you had Thanksgiving. Then we came back. Then we killed a deer in New Mexico. How about that? Yeah, so we should probably do that podcast. Yeah, we should do that podcast. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, we've been going hard. And then we just put out the January magazine. January 2024. Can you already believe it? Good grief. We're in 2024. We were supposed to be like having our own personal aircraft going to the store. Remember when we were kids? By 2020, you're going to have your own personal aircraft going to and from the store. We're supposed to be hunting deer out of those.

Lasers. Lasers. Now we're, yeah. Now we're, well, we do have basically, there's optics out there that you can kind of point and touch and click and they die. Yeah. Point and click your way to a 200-itcher. How about that? Go ahead. Point and click your way to a 200. You still got to find it. Speaking of 200s, Bronson, how many are there in the world right now? You can count them on one hand. It seems like they're all gone. Yeah. It just, it's tough right now. Tough environment. Yep. I would say. That's another podcast for the week. God, let's write it down. Status of mule deer. Trophy mule deer. Okay, write this down, John. Logan, where's your notepad? The Gen Zs and what are, what's the new Gen? Are you Gen Z, Gen X, Gen? I'm Gen Z. I don't know what the new one is. Is there one after? Do you guys have notepads? I don't know what it is. Do you ever have notepads? I always got.

Sticky notes all the time. Yeah? With ink that runs, flows through a pen normally? Yeah. I like it. Speaking our language. Nope, I'm outdated. Anyway, so what's the next podcast? What's your note say? Status of 200-inch mule deer in the United States. Okay, kind of, plus or minus. Yeah. What was the other one? We're going to talk about Bronson's hunt. We're going to finish up the whitetail saga. Yeah. I still can't feel my feet. Every time I think about getting cold, they're cold. And it was warm up there. All right. All right, that'll get us started. Anyway, here we are. Almost Christmas. Coming at you. We're going to be doing regular podcasts, if not a couple of weeks, just to get caught up. And anyway, appreciate everybody. And quite frankly, this podcast is sponsored by who, Bronson? Yours truly. Epic Outdoors. Epic Optics. How about that?

John, I guess before we get started, do you want to spew a little bit about these new tripods? So, we teased a while back that we were in development on some tripods. And it's been in development for over a year. We've been... Bronson and I are nauseated. Yeah. Yeah. And so, that's why you bring geeks like me in here to... You, Josh. Yeah. 14,000 other people. I'm really excited about the tripods because out of all the years we've hunted, we've taken all the desires and everything everybody wanted, we put them into two tripods. Desires? Desires? Well... Desires and tripods. Sound like a hunter. Hey, I'm going to throw in passion here and, you know... No, but... Fantasy's. The number one thing we... Appetites. We're like... Jeez, Josh.

Whatever. I'm just going to wait. Go ahead. Go ahead. But, okay, we've taken everything everybody wanted. And the number one thing was to have that smooth panning head. So, you get your... How come you never asked Adam and I? Yeah, we did. No? We've had meetings and meetings. Yeah. Anyway. And there was no polling going on. Your attention span is a little bit short. Go ahead. But the smooth panning head, every time, especially when you're filming off of, like, you know, you put your phone scope on your scope and the animal moves. You don't want it jittery. And most tripods are designed for photography. How about that? Do we call it the anti-jittery panning head? We should trademark that. Anti-jittery panning head. Make an acronym out of that. But, yeah. So, the animal moves and you try to move the tripod and either jumps or it sticks. And these are micro jumps. Yeah.

Like, this is for a very particular glasser that you just wound up about every little detail. And quite frankly, glassing is all about the details. I think there's a number of things about this tripod. We didn't, Bronson, who needs this big old long stick hanging out the head that's like, what? Oh, yeah. Forever, right? A foot long. Yeah. Like, it's just weight and it's cumbersome. So, we designed a shorty handle that's only six inches long. I used to just take a hacks out of mine. I did, too. And so, it's kind of a lot of these come from the modifications that we were making on our own. But the pan head is really difficult to improve on that. But you'll freaking love it. How about that return tension? Yeah. And there's a little bit of return tension. So, if you've got your spotting scope on that and you've got it a little bit loose, it's not going to fall over and fall down the mountain.

Every time. Who hasn't done that? Yeah. Just raise your hand, everybody. Raise your hand if you've had a tripod fall over. Yeah. And on the big one, you've got two separate adjustments. So, you can lock in the tilt and you can just pan back and forth. So, if you – I don't know anybody who doesn't grid, go, you know, side to side when they pan and then move down and go side to side. That's going to work. I don't know. There's people who do up and down, too. Are there? Yeah. But it's nice. Especially when you're following an animal. Yeah. You know, when you're videoing them, you're following them. And they're not always just going up and away from you. They're going left to right. And so, this gives you the ability to independently control both of those. And so, let's say you're an up and down glasser. You can lock in the pan from side to side and just go straight up and down.

And then loosen it a little bit, move, go down. So – The one thing we did was this Arca Swiss plate. That's a little bit – I'm used to the standard old square from way back in 1953. And I have one in every freaking nook and cranny of every truck, of every – you know what I mean? All my packs, all the little pockets have extra plates. And so, the biggest problem for me is trading all of them. A new plate. I need new plates. I ordered a hundred for you. So, you can – Yeah, we got more than that. You actually ordered 150, John. No, but a hundred of them are for you. Oh, okay. Okay. And so, anyway, but Bronson, I think that extra surface area. Yeah. It's a little longer. I feel like – yeah. Whereas, when we have BTXs, they're on this little one-and-a-half by one-and-a-half square. You know what I mean? I feel like there's something there for that on the – Stability.

And then the adjustability on that Arca Swiss, you can go further forward, further back, whatever. Your optic – Balance the weight. Like, if you're trying to balance the BTX, for example. So, there you have it. We went with that, and it's kind of common. You can buy them anywhere. Of course, we sell them. I'd love to sell you a bunch of plates, but – I'm going to sell myself some plates. But you can get them anywhere. A lot of people already run them. One of the cool things is most of the Swarovski feet on, like, their spotting scopes and things like that, they'll fit. Like, let's say you lose your foot or whatever. You're talking the plate. The plate. If you lose the plate, you can put, you know, the raw plate right in that. The raw. The tripod adapter. Yeah, yeah. And some of them – That's right. Like the SLC-TA adapter. Yes. You don't even have to put a foot on it or a plate.

You can slap it in there. You can just slap it in there. You can't do that on all Arca Swiss compatible ones. We designed ours so it will fit. The Swarovski ones, it holds. Sometimes, on some tripods, if you crank them down all the way, it's just not quite tight enough, but ours are. Okay. So, we've got that. How can I learn more about them? Let's direct them to where, too. Yeah. So, you can go to epicoptics.com. And if you're a member, make sure you log in first. And then you go to the member store. Just like our – Special deals, benefits, special pricing. They're all in stock right now. Yep. Everything's in stock. So, you can order there. Two tripods, right? Two tripod head. Let's talk about that real quick, Bronson. What's that? Two types? Well, the smaller tripod, you and I have always – we backpacked with what the old kids own. Yeah.

These are for if you're going to do an alpine pack-in, maybe early season deer hunt, or if you're going in sheep country or something like that. And you really have to scrimp and save on size and weight. Would it work in the Eagle Cup? Size and weight. The Eagle Cup? You bet. Name another one of those. I don't know. Yeah. West Elks. It would work there, too. Yep. Okay. West Elks. Yes, it would.

Frank Church. You got it. If this is a maximum, it goes up to 50 inches. We don't even care about that because you can't stand. And you only sit. Yeah. You only sit down. Now, some people would say with this, the big tripod, it's basically a sitting tripod, too. But, you know, that's just – That's not true, though. It's not true. Josh uses it, and he's 6'4". The big one is a true standing tripod. I know. And if you're – you know, it goes to 65 1⁄2 inches tall. And then, usually, you've got an adapter on your bino. You've got an adapter. You've got the depth of the bino. Yeah. And you can bring the legs in a half inch, and you've got another inch up top. Yes. Like, who knows? Yes. I just noticed that guy looks like me. Hey. That is Adam Bronson. He's a bald guy. He's a bald guy. He's a bald guy. Yeah. So, if you want to see what we're talking about, go to the website.

Look at the product photos. Did you have my permission to use my Express? Your image? Likeness? Black. Black and white ad right there, boss. You do not know who that is. That is a shadow. So – Do we have to pay somebody to use their shadow? No. I drew that, all right? You did? Yeah. John, you're amazing. Freehand? What else have you drawn? John's amazing. Anyway. So – You should see the artwork at John's house. If you use an angled scope, you'd be seven foot tall and still stand up and use it. I like it. I mean, anyway. So, that's kind of the range. Got two tripods and head combinations. Check them out. One of them we call the Epic Light, which is the backpacker, if you want to call it that. The other one is just the Epic Ultra tripod, which is – call that the all-around. That's what we – And they both hold – they're both basically rated for a nine-pound.

They hold nine pounds worth of optic on there. And that's the head. The legs are 17 and 22 pounds. Yeah, that's right. So, you know, some people like – they've got – the Ultra has a hook on the bottom. So, if you liked a little bit more weight, like you can put 20-some-odd pounds underneath it as well to give it some more stability. I never used that. Important to note, it's not just – it's not the same head on both tripods either. We have a separate head that we developed for the light and the Ultra. That's right. So, check them out on Epic Outdoors, epicoutdoors.com. So, weight-wise, the really cool thing, they're carbon fiber, really lightweight. We stayed under four pounds. We're like 3.8 pounds on – That's with the head. On the big tripod with the head. We have guys calling in that are normally running even the lighter weight tripods that were a pound, 14 ounces under.

I have a really good friend here in town. He's like, I just can't believe it. I can't believe it. And, of course, you can see where we shaved the weight once you get it in your hands. But, anyway, we'll be at the Hunt Expo too. Hopefully, there'll be a pallet there of each kind. Who knows? If they're sold out, they're sold out. So, we got hundreds more coming, hundreds and hundreds. Anything else? Oh, just – I mean, a couple of the other things. It's got a pretty cool design as far as – for fitting in your pack, the large one is only 18 1⁄2 inches tall and 5 inches kind of wide. So, you can put that in a pocket usually, and you can invert them or you can do it the normal way. Is that with the head on it? That's with the head on it. Yeah, they're good. They're awesome. Good work. All right, everybody. You know it. You've heard it here. And we also sell optics.

Of course, we want to sell you optics. We're the best price out there. No question about it. Give us a holler if you need something. We've got a lot of things in stock. The prices go up January 1. I want to say that again. Prices go up January 1. It's not us. It's the factory. That's just kind of common. And so, forevermore, just know January 1 is, if you're going to buy something in January, buy it in December. And, you know, whatever. Pay your card off in full the next month. You won't pay any interest anyway. But just, you know, think about that. It saves several hundred dollars on some of these different products. Prices go up January 1. We have a lot of stuff in stock. Give us a holler prior to January 1, and we'll get you taken care of. So, anyway, besides the fact that we're the best price and can't advertise it necessarily, individual prices, but just call us and figure it out.

All right, Bronson, I'm going to let you head up the rest of it.

Of what? I don't know. Let's talk about Mealy's Matter. What I really want to do is let's preface this Mealy's Matter. We just finished this sucker, right? Yeah. It was awesome. We have so many responses. Got a few of them here on the table. I'm not sure we're going to read them at this moment, but we've also had a lot of people reach out to you and I direct, as well as John and everybody else in the office. And what a cool little bit of a movement it is. It just brings awareness to how sensitive mule deer are. It used to be that we felt like if you killed a great buck, there's another one standing there next year. Like, it just didn't feel like, you know, that it was a sensitive. A little bit of a renewable resource. Yeah. Right now, it doesn't feel like that. No, it feels like when you shoot one, you've shot the last one. You shot the breeder buck. You know what I mean? Doesn't it?

Yeah. And so, and you actually feel bad. I mean, there's a little bit of, you know, you smashed a great one in New Mexico. And not that we felt bad. Trying to make me feel bad about that. We did. No. We did a smash and grab. And we smashed it, ran up to it, and grabbed it. Yeah. And would do it again in a heartbeat. But it's just one of those things is, have you heard about another one? You know what I mean? And it just, it shows you how tough it is out there. That'll be a tee up the next podcast that we talked about. Yeah. But this was an awesome, awesome event. What was the total number of tags? I want to say 16. Total number of tags we got in-house? 11 some. Yeah, just about 1100. I think it was 1095. And then you said there was more like 1600 or so registered or 1700 registered. But a lot of those guys' hunts hadn't started yet. So they didn't understand the full program.

Then they go out, they kill a buck, and then they're not really eligible. Right? Right. They didn't send a tag in to complete the whole signing process. Or they just, yeah, they didn't get around to sending the actual tag. Whatever. But 1100 and something tags came in. We had three different barrels. An antlerous barrel. General season tags for what? Arizona. Yeah. Like Arizona, Wyoming residents. Idaho. Idaho. Yeah. Yeah. And then we had the limited entry stuff. So it was awesome. Really appreciate. And we're just going to take some time now and go through everything. I think these sponsors one at a time as you maybe just read the winners. This was probably only as popular as it was because of what we had for the great response in terms of donors and stuff like that. I mean, if we had five prizes on there, we would have had 1100 tags.

What I think is awesome, too, is we had guys, and I kind of wanted to list, I kind of wanted to list, but you run into a little bit of privacy stuff, but you almost want to list everybody that participated and sent their tag in. We have guys, good friends of ours, they don't need any of these prizes necessarily, right? But they wanted to participate in it and just show their approval and support. And it's not that they'll happily take a land hunter. They'll happily take a bronze or something like that, or cash or whatever, right? But it was more or less is, I love this, I want to support you guys, and whatnot. And so there was just, we had a lot of support from, feels like, all four corners of the earth, you know, because it was just natural. They didn't cost anything. You had a little bit of elbow grease, get on the computer and register,

and send your tag in so you got a 50-cent stamp or whatever. But it wasn't, you know, there was no real entry fee or anything like that. Anybody and everybody could apply or throw their name in the hat. We had very high up people, maybe even near the top, Bronson, here in Utah of people in the Utah DWR submit their tags, you know? And even other states, I believe, we've heard from. So, yeah. Commissions. Game and fish commissions. And so it's just all it's saying is, hey, basically, we wanted you to go hunt. Everybody should go hunt. Like, that's the idea of it. Nobody should stay home. Necessarily, unless you had a doe tag. Then stay home. Don't kill a doe. I'm fine with that. But as far as hunting bucks, go out and hunt. And just don't kill one on the last day or any day. Just to make it die. If it's something you want, you really want the meat, fine. It's your tag.

Do with what you want with it. It was just a little encouragement to not just kill one, to kill one. If it's something you want, great. I absolutely want you to have it. You've got the tag. You've earned the right to harvest that buck that's standing in front of you. But if it's the last day and it's just to fill a tag and to test your gun and ballistics and all that at the cost of an animal, maybe think twice. That's all this was about. Well, and it was such a success. We had such an overwhelming response. We're already making big plans for next year. This is not something that was a one and done. We've got other things in the works. We'll announce those soon to some extent. But we're going to make some, I guess we'll call it improvements, improvements in the donation side of things, which we'll be able to announce in the near future as well.

So, yeah, we just appreciate everybody, both those that sent tags in that thought this is worthy enough of a cause to send in a tag, an unpunched tag in towards. And, like I said, all those that donated prizes, hunts, money, whatever it is, over $50-something thousand dollars in stuff. You know, we didn't have any, like, you know, we started with nothing. So it was pretty awesome. We started with some $500 donations from us and a fierce rifle and a bow and a thought and a dream. Yeah, that's right. A few trail cameras. Like, it was more or less just we thought it would just be small and we were okay with just something. Whatever. We could do something. And then, you know, as it started rolling, then it rolls and we let it roll. And now, you know, we'll be moving forward with a 501c3 and just kind of growing it a little bit and let it grow naturally as the sport comes in.

And so, anyway, we're excited about it. Again, like Adam said, we really appreciate the donors. And that's, you know, it's just awesome to watch our industry come together a little bit. And I think there's one thing we can all agree on, whether you agree with trophy hunting or not, whether you agree with general tags or not, whether you agree with game management or not. At the end of the day, you know, just harvest what you want to harvest, but don't just harvest just to harvest because it's like we talked about with that. Yeah, with that renewable resource. Technically, it should be a renewable resource. It's just everything is against them, whether it be drought, predators, us, game and fish. Everybody seems like they're against mule deer. There's a great big rabbit out there, and everybody wants to eat it. You know, that's the way it goes. So, all right, Bronson. I don't know.

You want to mow through these? Yeah, I think we should talk about it just a little bit. We've got a few of them. It might be slightly boring. Maybe we throw us something in the middle. I don't know. I mean, we might need to even dive into this Trailblaze box, the black backpack, logistics.com. Of course, we had our buddy Dustin Whitworth hit us with this. Podcast Treat Box. Bronson's named it the Podcast Treat Box. So, in here, let's see. Do you want this honey stinger? You can have that. I don't know. This looked a little French, John. Oh, yeah. What is it? These are actually my favorite. That makes sense. Yep. What are they? Bronson looked at it, and he goes, that's something that would be made in France. Yeah, Larabar. And it's just- What is it? As few ingredients as possible. The thing- Fruit bar? I'm gluten-free because I'm allergic to it. Well, I'm actually-

We won't go into it, but anything in North America that's grain, I can't eat it. But if it's in France, it's fine. Europe, anywhere else. If it's imported, I can totally eat it, and I don't get sick. So, anyway, take what you want. So weird. But these don't have any wheat in it from- Here's a Mountain Ops bar. They're awesome. 20 grams of protein. Frosted cinnamon swirl. How about that? Bronson, what do you got? Oh, this is about 400 calories or something. Dense. Dense pro-meal bar. What I like, Bronson, is you and I are constantly having this kind of food for about three months. But I buy the same stuff every time I go. Every time. Because you know it works. Well, I know what it- But some of this looks good. You have those freaking Nature Valley bars, the green package that are drier than crap. You need a whole bottle of water and an entire monster to wash it down.

How about a Bobo Hippie bar? I'm not interested in it, but I kind of want it right now. I mean, it's a brownie. I'll try it once. Anyway, let's give this to Logan. It's the granola breakfast. You've got to add some water, and you've got a breakfast for the morning. Pass something down to the intern. Well, I think you're not just the intern boss, but you are a single college kid. So there's your breakfast for tomorrow. Thank you. I appreciate it. You're welcome. And we've got some Amino whatever. Mountain Ops Amino Trail Pack. Weight, protein, meal replacement. Not going to replace it, Mel. Yet. Maybe. Dipped chocolate oat bar. Nut butter. Nut butter. Here's some dark chocolate. You look like a dark chocolate guy. What does that mean? I mean, just- What does that mean? Discriminating? I look like a dark chocolate guy. What does that mean? Dark chocolate, like you would like it.

I don't like dark chocolate. They say it's good for you. I don't. That's why all these bars have dark. So there's some podcast treats for everybody. Appreciate you, Dustin. Anyway, if you're interested, backpacklogistics.com. He's got little surprise trail boxes. And he'll also custom package meals for you, whether you're in the truck, you're out in the field, you're backpacking, you're doing whatever. Maybe even guided trips. Maybe you buy a whole bunch for you and your guided clients or whatever. He'll cut you a commercial deal. Who knows? He kind of seems like a dealmaker guy. Wheeling deal. All right. Yeah. So let's crank through some of these real quick. We need to read through the winners. They're listed on our podcast. They're listed. Or on our website. Should we just- Yeah. Go through the donors. Yeah. Let's just- I'm with you. Let's give another shout out to these.

We want to verbalize them. I know it takes time for everybody to go out there. But just if you know some of these people, you know some of these donors, you know, give them a shout out or, you know, support their business or whatever like that. And if you want to donate, I think we should do something like this. If you want to donate for 2024, of course, reach out to Adam or I or John. Okay? That's fine. Reach out to us. Let us know. But I think if you donate early, you get a little more publicity because it ends up on our website. You do earlier. Right. So maybe you're on the website the whole year. And we have more opportunities to post about you on our Instagram as well. Exactly. If you add it late next year, November 1st- It's a little tougher. You're not going to get as much to support your product. And those who support the industry, us, hunters, we should be supporting them.

You know what I mean? Yeah. And so why not? Why wouldn't you support people that are putting down, you know, good products for this kind of cause that means so much to us? So anyway, anybody who wants to donate for 2024, let us know. Anybody and everybody is welcome to donate. Right. And we'll throw you shout-outs throughout the year. We're going to keep talking about this. All right, Bronson. Maybe I'll run through 10 or so and then Carter, you take the mic. We had a couple of five-day lion hunts donated. First off was from Mecham Outfitters here in southern Utah. Awesome outfit. Appreciate them. Another one was from Unbranded Outfitters over in Nevada. We also had a fierce Twisted Rage Rival donated by Epic Outdoors. We had a mini bronze, a replica donated by Trigger Finger Replicas. We had a three-day guided lion hunt from Deep Creek Outfitters out of Nevada.

We had a Vortex package, Vortex Optics. Paul Kendall, a rep here for Vortex in Utah. Appreciate them. Browning. And, you know, a lot of these were unsolicited. We want to make that known. A lot of these, you know, they just heard about our stuff and they just called us up. So we appreciate these companies doing that. Browning. They donated Expo Pro 300 PRC. Then we had a puppy. Winner's choice of a Golden Doodle or a Weiner Eimer. I guess that's how you say it. But that was from Mike Ostrom. Appreciate Mike doing that. We had Lift and Level Utah with a $1,500 concrete lifting job in Utah County. Appreciate them. Starlink and Pelican Case. That was donated by Jared Tindall out of Texas. Appreciate that, Jared. And another donation from us here at Epic Outdoors. We donated a Hoyt VTM 34. It's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, just again, shout out to those guys. Just fantastic.

The Outfitters, just awesome. You know, some of the products we sell, the Fierce and the Hoyt, we threw it in there. Great products. We sell those. More along the lines of the rifles, we do a few bows. And then, of course, the replicas and things like that. Just awesome. Again, just like Bronson said. You know, Browning reached out to us. Just awesome. Lift and Level. Awesome. Jared Tindall, that's just one of us. A hunter like us. If any hunters out there want to donate, keep us in mind. We also had donations from Thompson Long Range. Dealt with them for many years. We got, you know, a one-day long-range shooting course. Two winners. Nobody walks away from that course without learning about shooting and how to improve. Incredible guys there. We also have a donation of a San Juan River guided fly fishing trip for two. Mojo fly fishing. Really appreciate them. Awesome.

Ryan Iverson, thank you. Another, just one of us, a hunter out there that said, what do you think I should do? Hey, whatever you think. He's like, well, I was thinking about a Stone Glacier gift card. So, it wasn't necessarily Stone Glacier. It was Ryan that reached out to them and got a gift certificate. We really appreciate that. And, anyway, we've got a Kobuk backpack bundle. Awesome. Just an awesome gift. Really appreciate that. As well as a Mossberg Patriot rifle, 7mm PRC. That backpack bundle was donated by Alaska Guide Creations. Oh, okay. Alaska Guide Creations. That was cut off on my sheet here. Thank you, John. I think that's just the Kobuk is the name of the bundle. The bundle. Yeah. So, anyway, product from them. Perfect. I like it. And Stedman's Jewelry. Known them for many years. Fine jewelry. Really seems like they don't. They do wedding. They do all kinds of jewelry.

But it feels like they're definitely in the hunting industry side of things. And so, if you want any custom jewelry, definitely reach out to them. Stedman's. They donated as well. And then we had some cash. We donated from myself, John, Adam, as well as Travis Hobbs. He's a mule deer fanatic. Killed great bucks. You've heard him on our podcast and on other podcasts and just out and about on social media. Really appreciate him as well as another member. Jake Javanovich wanted to reach out and do something. And he sent in the cash. So, really appreciate everybody on that as well. Browning also stepped up and donated just a gear package with pack knives, headlamp, a bunch of stuff. Appreciate them donating that in addition to the gun that we mentioned already earlier. We had another member, Marty Meisner. And this was a great idea. I don't know why we didn't think of this. He got creative.

Yeah. He called in and bought a $500 ticket membership for Epic Outdoors and donated it to a winner. So, anyway, that was good. So, the winner of that got a $500 package for this winner membership drive that we've got going right now. I believe that's 30 chances to win. Yeah, and it gives him a knife or a headlamp as well as a bonus ticket. I mean, we're talking about $80,000 plus stone sheep and all that. Well, he could put those tickets to whatever he wants, and it's just awesome. What a great idea. So, yeah, appreciate that, Marty. We had an anonymous donor donate a Leupold RX 1600i rangefinder. Appreciate anonymous. How about that? Yeah. We know who it is, but we appreciate that. It was pretty cool. They just thought it would be anonymous. We had a couple, well, a few mule deer shoulder mounts, one by Sessions Taxidermy, one by Trophy Room Taxidermy, and one by Bond Taxidermy.

We really appreciate those. Those are obviously popular. The winners of these are going to have to use them towards bucks that they harvest next year because they always didn't harvest one this year because they sent their tags in unused. Right? Well, yeah. Maybe they shot one in the other state. Got a credit toward a shoulder mount. That's right. Appreciate them. We had a Muley Maniacs donated a Kanadi tripod. Appreciate them donating that. And we had another anonymous donor donate a whiskey barrel stand for a shoulder mount, like a pedestal mount. It's really cool. It's really cool. Kind of that Barney wood, you know, whiskey barrel to do a pedestal of some kind. So it was really, really cool. Okay. I like it. We also had, well, John, do you want to jump in? Yeah. All right. Yeah. Adam and I are going horse over here. Yeah. I'm only going to last a little while.

I've got a little bit of a scratchy throat. You do? Are you sick? Oh, I've been sick for three weeks. Come on. No. What do you got? It's the old school. It's like I had COVID and COVID was nice because all I got was tired. Do you know what? Like hits everybody different? That's it. Like I could taste everything just tired. Now it's old school, cold. Throwing up. Coughing your guts out. Yeah. Really? Yeah. I mean, it's been long. You guys opened the door. Anyway. So I think now I think I've just coughed so much my throat's just scratched, you know, and so that's all I've got. But anyway. I've had some chewable vitamin C's and like some Zycams and. All kinds of edibles. No. Not all kinds. No. All right. Keep going. So then we've got a tattoo from, I think it's Velichor tattoo. Awesome. And the guy who won that was super excited. It was awesome. Did he want to do the Epic logo maybe?

I don't know. The Epic logo is pretty awesome. Yeah. There's been a few guys, gals do it. Yeah. We've got one in our office that has a pretty awesome one on it. Oh. And. And. It's pretty incredible. Yep.

Let's see. Oh. So. This is pretty cool. 20 pound packages. Five of them. Of beef jerky. Five of them from mahogany smoked meats. 100 pounds. 100 pounds of meat. And. It feels like jerky is like an ounce for a big old stick. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's just like. What does 100 pounds of dried out meat look like? It's going to be big time. And. We've tasted it. It's awesome. If you're looking for jerky. Go get on there. We've known. Brandon Maharl. The owner. We've known him for years. He's a hardcore hunter. Loves mule deer. Yeah. He would support anything positive surrounding mule deer. Everybody out there should support his business as well. All these businesses that we're talking about. But. Anyway. Just. Just awesome. I appreciate it. Jerky is awesome too. We've had it for years too. It's amazing. And then sheep feet orthotics. Did. You know. 10 pairs of sheep feet.

That's awesome. Then we've got. Oh. Mountain Physio. Eval. Has a training and rehab program. That. That they gave away. 250 in cash. From Rock Slide. Good guys. Over there to Rock Slide. Also have a podcast. Podcast. We've had Robbie on. Our podcast. Multiple times. And. He's a mule deer fanatic. We don't always agree on management styles necessarily. But that's alright. Yeah. He supports what we've got going on here. And. And we sure appreciate that. Thank you. Then we threw in another. Go ahead. Yeah. Avery and the Rock Slide guys. Thank you. Thanks. And then we threw in another trail camera package. And. Then traditional bow package. From Selway Archery. So. Very cool. I thought we were going to need that here in Utah. Yeah. Yeah. The guy was. He's excited. He's like Jason. I can totally hook you up. And I'm asking him. Hey. You know. Give me. What's best out there. I'm a.

I'm a die hard. Traditional bow. You know. Single string. Sticking a stringer. And thankfully. I'm going to put that off for a minute. And we had a beef package. From Flying O Beef. That got drawn. And. Frame metal print. Of the king. And. That also has. Is going to get a custom. Barnwood frame. Put on that. By Matt Messer. Messer. I think. Yeah. And he did our podcast table here. This guy knows what he's doing. It's awesome. And. Jeremy Houston. Did the print. And Matt Messer. He's going to do the frame. So. Kind of a collaborative. Unbeatable. Appreciate those guys. Putting that together. It's awesome. Thanks to those guys. Yeah. All right. We got some stocking shoes. By. How do you pronounce that? Ancient. Ancient. How about. A-N-X-Y-N-T. Anyway. Everybody go out there. And check out their stocking shoes. And. Anyway. It's pretty awesome. We appreciate that. Just. Just incredible.

We also have a large print. Metal print. Of a Longhorn Bull. Donated by PSC. Outdoor Photography. We have. Edge Eyewear Bundle. Two winners there. Appreciate them. We have Phone Scope. Five winners. Cheston. Your company. We appreciate Phone Scope. For supporting us. Of course. They've. Sponsored everything we're doing here. For many years. We appreciate them. Winner's choice. Of a custom holster. By JC Custom. Appreciate them. That's awesome. Mike Duplan. We've had him on podcast. Just another. Another. Mule Deer fanatic. Believes in. What's going on. And. A little bit sensitive. To. To what's. To the scarcity. Of big deer right now. He's. He's one of those. Diehards. That just loves big deer. And so anyway. Appreciate him. His support. With a. Entire box of. Of his book. As well as. A Mule Deer canvas print. We've got a universal rider. Rider industries. They've kind of got those.

Great big. You know. Gun. Let's call it a rifle scabbard. That goes in your truck. Right alongside the driver there. On the passenger side. That tucks in tight. We've all got guns in the truck. And. You need a coyote rifle. Handy. And he makes it possible. So. Got a five day meal. Backpack meal kit. By backpack logistics. We've given. Given what we're enough. Enough press. We don't need to keep talking about him. Do we? Appreciate it. I actually love giving him a hard time. You got to start first on him. Otherwise you get behind. So if you've noticed. Anytime we start a podcast with him. We just. We just crush right out. Right out the gate. With him. But anyway. We appreciate him. He's fun to give a hard time to. Backpack logistics. Appreciate you. McGuire ballistics. A free box of bullets. How about that? A wall mounted. Antler hanger. Awesome. A Mule Deer junkie. Essentials cap.

And a Muley air freshener. Pretty cool. We actually had some here in the office. And then again. 20 copies of Mike Duplan's book. The Edge. And so. That was a lot. Quite extensive list there. It was. It was long. It was very diverse. It was exciting to hear from some of the winners. After I heard of them. Or heard from them. We had. You know. There's some young. Young hunters. I don't know if you've got these in your stack of letters. I don't want to steal your thunder. No. I don't. I just remember. No thunder. I remember one of these was like a young. Young. I'm going to call it. Teenager. Age. And he passed some bucks. And his dad said he was really hard to maybe not shoot him. But when he found out he won. He won the bow I believe. The Hoyt bow. Didn't he? And he was so ecstatic. Yeah. Passed the deer that he passed. And he didn't kill a deer. But then he won the bow. He just.

The kid was ecstatic. So. Kind of a cool story. Well it's just interesting. There's a mindset. You know. It starts when they're young. Is that. You know. These deer aren't just. Every time I see a dead deer. It's kind of like your heart goes out to him a little bit. Like. Every doe matters. You know what I mean right now. And so. You know. Again. We've got some of these. You know. Some of our highways right here. Even locally. We could use some overpasses. Bronson. Maybe some fencing. I mean. Some of these projects. Maybe a landowner tag system. Where. Where. You know. Some of these ranchers. Are. Are maybe compensated. Or able to sell their tags. Not just. Not just use them. You know what I mean. To pay for some of the. Damage and whatnot. I mean. There's. There's things we can be doing. As well as. You know. Everybody screams habitat. But we've got here locally. You know. Our state.

We've got so many habitat projects. We've got to fill the habitat. Yeah. Yeah. That's not our limiting factor right now. I mean. You do have encroachment on cities. Yeah. And all of that. Those are different. But we're talking. Summer range. Parts of the state. Yeah. Where there's summer range. And winter range. That's not our limiting factor. In most areas of Utah right now. And. We're just eliminating northern Utah. Because we know the challenges that that faces with. It's not going to change. A couple million people. It's only going to get worse. Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah. Anyway. So anyway. Yeah. There's definitely. Definitely some things there. As well as some of these. Like. These. Needless killing of does. Like on depredation. And things like that. Like. We've got a landowner that complains. Our. Our DWR jumps. And. I've got a. I've got a. Relative. That's a landowner.

And he's got a bunch of deer on his property. And he can't. The tags aren't transferable. And. In general. Status areas. Tags are not transferable. Other than to like. Blood relatives. Of some sort. There's caveats to it. You can't sell them. And he's like. You know. I've got all these deer on here. Like. I need them. Moved. You know what I mean. And. And DWR. He says. I'm going to kill him. But he's. And I don't think he would kill him. And they said. Just let us know when it's going to happen. And let us know. So we're. We're ready for it. And they're fine with it. You know. And I just don't think that's. If you kill a deer. Out of season. You don't have a tag for it. You're in trouble. That's a problem. I don't care. You know. I personally. Don't think it's. I don't think they should have the right. To be able to kill him like that. Having said that. We should develop a system.

Where they want them. You know what I'm saying. Not just the Ponce de Gaunt. Where they can sell tags. Not just San Juan. Where they can sell tags. We should. We should develop a system. Where all deer. Matter. And that all landowners. Matter. And they're able to. Receive compensation. From the private sector. To a degree. I mean. Do you have any thoughts on that. Bronson? Well. Yeah. That's a statute. And. That allows them to do that. And that was passed. You know. Even back. 30 years ago. 20 years ago. 20 to 30. Whatever it was. Since. I've been gone. That allows. You know. Landowners to build and notify. The division. That kill intent. On cultivated. Crop land. And. You know. Those. Those are bad enough. But there's also some of these issues. That are. Happening. Out on rangeland. I mean. We ran into it this year. We're out there. You know. Scouting for deer. Guiding for sheep.

And we got people. A mile. A half a mile. Off of private land. Hunting doe deer. With a half a mile buffer. Off of rangeland. Out. Hunting doe deer. On a grass field. On the. Hunting cedar trees. And sagebrush. And they're migrants. They're. Yeah. Migrating deer. Nobody's farming right now. No. You know. This was October. And they were hunting. They had a half a mile buffer. Outside of their private. Which I understand. Sometimes the deer don't come in until dark and all that. But like. It just seemed like. Really. You need one doe tag to shoot a doe. Half a mile off your place. And now you're out there. You know. Just hunting. You know. BLM land. It just seemed. Felt wrong. I mean. I understand. And this is in. October. November. Growing season's over with. I just have a problem. Problem with those. Types of things. Well. We have a fraction of the deer that we had. Nobody.

When your family. Had that same piece of property. Nobody cared when deer. When we had millions of. When deer. When they were. A true renewable resource. Nobody. Nobody cared. Yeah. When we have lots of deer. We have lots of depredation. Division goes out. At times or whatever. And they smash a lot of deer. And. And. And. And everybody still has good hunts. Because there's a lot of deer to go around. Right now it's super sensitive. And so then you start. Every deer matter. Yeah. Right now. So then you start looking at ways that. Maybe some of these guys that. Have a little bit of time. And a little power. And a little money. That are fighting some other battles. Maybe. Maybe some of these battles. Wouldn't be bad to take on. You know. And. And have an adjustment in some of these things. So. Anyway. It's awesome. Just causes an awareness. We did have some things sent in.

I love to hunt with my dad. A little drawing. A little drawing. Pretty cool. I don't know. There's a lady. That sent in a letter from. About. You know. Her husband. I don't know. I kind of want to read it. But I also don't want to embarrass anybody. It's just awesome. Just this. The support for the. Hunting component. And handwritten. Yeah. How much of a. Hunting is positive in their life. Their family's life. And how. You know. This. This wife. Loves. Loves. Loves seeing her kids. Going hunting with her husband. If I remember right. That was the gist of it. And how much that means to them. And their family. And. Mealies matter movement. And just whatever. Was important to them. It was really. Really awesome. So. Super supportive of her husband. Yes. Awesome. Yeah. If you. If you take your kids hunting. It's a. Great way to get brownies points. There's no better way. I mean. There's not.

No. Okay. Okay. Well. What else? There's some guys talking about. Bombs on mobs. Probably not podcast. Material. On that one. But a good. Good time. Good chuckle. Thank you for doing this. For our mule deer. Some people don't think. It will do anything. But I. I don't see them doing anything to help. Let's keep this going. And do more big things. To help the deer out. Because. Heaven knows they need it. And.

So we had a. We had another. Another note. We had another note sent in. You know. For. From. From a. A guy within the Department of Game and Fish. One of the Game and Fish agencies. Of course. Everybody's looking at this. Because. We've got guys on the Nevada Commission. That love it. Or. Or. Even. Colorado. New Mexico. We've heard from. And so. Anyway. It's pretty awesome. This was kind of a cool one. You know. I love that you guys are sharing your ideas. And encourage folks to participate. Um. You know. Not everybody agrees 100% with some of the ideas. About quality versus opportunity. And that's okay. We don't have to agree on every single thing. Um. We do agree that we want big healthy deer populations. And great. You know. Good buck hunting. That is a given. And I love that you're using some ideas. And percentage. Uh. Incentives to persuade folks. And thanks for being passionate.

And doing this work to protect and promote something you love. And he really respects that. And we. We respect him as well. Just awesome. Appreciate reaching out. Um. You know. Takes a lot for guys to reach out. If you. If there's something negative out there. You're going to hear about it. Almost every time. If there's something positive. You know. Guys are busy. And people are busy. And you hear. You hear a fraction of what people really think. But we appreciate all the support on. Muley's Matter. And we'll keep that. Uh. We'll keep that cranking. You never know where it's going to lead. We've got some. Pretty big ideas. But. Who knows. There's only so much a guy can do in a day. Huh guys. You know. Yeah. So. Anyway. Let's. Bronson. Maybe let's just talk about some of the shows that we'll be at. We've got a few of the things that we've got. We just covered.

Covered a few things in the magazine. Maybe we'll just kind of give a quick rundown of our schedule of events here coming up. Yeah. Just after the first of the year. We're going to have at least a couple of us will be down to Dallas Safari Club. That's a new show that we're going to be attending there. New for us. Yeah. New for us. Going to have a couple guys there at the Epic Outdoors booth. And Epic Outdoors Optics. So. If you're. Going to be at that show. Definitely stop by. You're going to want to check our pricing out there. Visit some of the guys. We'll also. The next week. I believe. We'll be in Sheep Show. Have a couple guys there. And maybe the rest of the crew. A couple of the other guys will show up maybe Friday night, Saturday. Depends on if we get the next February magazine out in time. John. John's like cracking the whip. Oh yeah. I mean. I want to say he's a.

I can't say it out loud. But he's a slave driver. No. You can't say it out loud. A czar. A czar. Okay. I like that. Nobody would care. Right? A czar. A czar. Yeah. The czars got like assassinated. Right? So yeah. Nobody cares. I mean. Yeah. You're a dictator. Whatever you want to call yourself. You're mean. I mean. You're the king. You're king around here. But anyway. No. It's. We just got one magazine to the printer. The other one's going to be due there in mid January. And if it all comes off like we think it will. We should have a day or two to go to the sheep show. We'll have a couple guys there. We'll have a booth there. Jason. And I may show up for Friday night or Saturday. And then. As always. We will be the full week. The full team. At the Western Hunting Conservation Expo in mid February in Salt Lake City. It's a big show for us. You know.

We're going to bring our full optics trailer. We're going to have everything there. So if you're needing something. Want to check out the tripods. Or check out the new glass. Great place to do it. You know. We're going to come heavy. Stocked heavy. To that show. So. Pretty awesome. You know. Along with the tripods. We came out with a. Kind of a gun clamp. You know. Slaps on the tripods as well. And a few things that will hold your phone. While you're taking phone photos. Of you and your trophy. Or whatever you're doing. You have family photos. You're just being in the field. Whatever. Got some of those little knickknacks. Got a window mount. Window mount is bad. A. What else John? Bad apples. So passionate about this stuff. What else did you. Help create. Yeah. That we've got on our website. I think just. You can't. Come to the show. Try them out. They're phenomenal.

You're being impressed. Yeah. You really put a lot of time into development. All right. So then. We've just put out the January publication. I actually have a little private link. We'll let live here shortly. It covers. John maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Huh. John asked today. I was like give us a break. Give us a couple of days. Bronson. What do you think? Well I don't know. Now. Now we're in charge. We can tell John when we want the email. How about that. How about that John? He told us when he wanted the magazine to him so we could get the printer. Now we tell him. Tell him a couple things. And then say please after. So anyway. January magazine covers Arizona elk and antelope as well as Wyoming. Sheep. Goat. Moose. Bison. Elk. Or. Yeah. We covered that right. Yeah. Any other species I missed? No. And Bronson. Kind of the. Interesting. Hmm.

What do you think the odds are going to do with the special elk price going up to upwards of over $1,950? That's going to be the biggest question of the year. Yeah. I mean there's going to be a lot of people that aren't willing to pay that frankly. It used to be what $1,200 and something bucks. Yeah. Jumping right to almost $2,000. That's going to be. I don't know. I think there's going to be. The regular odds are going to get worse in most every unit. There's maybe some individual units where you have let's say low tag numbers and you only have one or two tags and the regular or special pull. It may not make a difference there. But if you have hundreds of total tags and so you have handfuls of non-resident tags there, it's going to be interesting. You also could look at it from this perspective though. You might have some non-residents that are like, I'm biting the bullet.

I'll pay two Gs and be done with this state if I can just get drawn. Right? I think a bit of that can happen. Yeah. I think that's kind of the smaller. Do you think that way maybe? Yeah. Well, I just think. I might. $1,900. They were smart. They didn't hit two. Okay. So $1,900 just hits a little different. Not as bad as two. And that's kind of the smaller portion of the whole experience. You've got your guide fees are up over 10K for most outfitters that are doing elk. In Wyoming. Yeah. Elk prices. It's a lot. It's a lot of money. And so then you're looking at, well, $1,900 and I can be done with this thing. So I think I just don't know what the odds are going to do. It does feel a little soft. I just want to say the economy. I don't know if it's the economy. If it's, it was the, the people were amped up with all the weather. I don't know.

It just, there's, there's just, I'm not going to say it's blah. We're doing a lot of consulting. We consult all day, every day. But it's just going to be a slight different feel for 2024. What's your feeling? I agree. It doesn't feel like people are raging into 2024. Give me every tag they can get. Do you think they feel like we do? We got our butts whooped on all these deer hunts and we're just sick of it. I think some people are tempered a little bit. Slightly. Their enthusiasm was tempered because it was a, it was a humbling year in a lot of places, especially if you hunted deer in a lot of places. Yeah. Even, even elk. We've talked a lot about the archery elk rut in a lot of the Western states. Colorado, Utah, you know, Arizona. It was a stop and start, stall, rut. It was not an incredible year to hunt elk. It wasn't. And there was not really a rational reason for it either.

It was just unforeseen almost. There were units in Arizona that had incredible rutting during the archery. And there was other units that were kind of dead. Yeah. It was just like what you're saying. A stop, start, it was spotty. Yeah. You know, and then, and then you go to other, other, anyway, just, there was a lot of that. Interesting. What was your, we're going to be talking about Utah here in the February issue, even though it's not due till later, but you know, we've only got so much space, but potentially February. But how did you feel like the five-day early rifle hunts versus the mid rifles, the new October 7 hunt, things like that? Like just to kind of bring that up as a topic, because that was a big topic last year. Definitely don't feel too many giant bulls got killed on that five-day early rifle hunt this year. We didn't think it would be. Well, and.

It comes and goes pretty fast. The impacts of the spike hunters was, I would say, under, what do you call it, the impact, it was, it was, it was. On the mid-season hunt you're talking about? Yeah. The spike hunters were just out in force. It just felt like it was, it changed that. It changed that hunt. We warned people, we were like, we warned, like, beware, this is going on during the spike hunt. But nothing could prepare you for it. No. No, that's right. So, the muzzleloader hunt, which we all said it probably would be the best hunt, it was a 12-day rut hunt, it probably was. The best dates and all that. Gave you enough days to pass bulls and get deep into it. There were some really good bulls on the early rifle, but five days is daunting. Yeah. You get two, three days in and guys are getting punchy and just shooting bulls. Yeah. And that happened a lot.

So, it's going to be interesting. Moving forward now, Utah, you know, now went back retroactively, I guess you want to. Pre-2016, 2015. Somewhere in there. No more magnified scopes on muzzleloaders for 2024 and beyond. It's got to be a one power magnified, non-magnified scope or one power red dot or open sight, peep sight, whatever you want to use. So, it's going to impact some people's eagerness to go all in and do the muzzleloader elk hunt versus the 30 rifle. So, there's a lot of moving parts. Muzzleloader was a no-brainer last year when you can use hunting for 12 days with a scope. That seemed like a no-brainer versus five days with a rifle right before that. But now, maybe it's not that appealing. It's appealing to some people. Now, you got people there talking about doing turreted one power scopes. And we knew it would happen, like we call it, you know, and that's fine.

But looking through a one power scope seems like you're going negative power. It feels like a negative .7. Because my open sight, I can see peep. I'd rather shoot a peep. And then there's turreted peeps, you know, where you can twist them up, twist them down. So, anyway, it'll be interesting. I think there'll be some new products coming out to address that. But I will tell you, New Mexico went back to ironsides last year was the first year. The residents, I've had many, many people say how they hate it. But watch out. But that's because they couldn't kill them. That's right. Watch out. Watch out in the next few years. New Mexico, I want to say, invented long-range muzzleloaders. I mean, they were shooting long-range before any of us because they could. Yeah, them and Arizona kind of was the two that always did. And then Utah joined the fray back in 2016 or whatever it was.

And then everybody got good at it. 15, 16. And then some of the muzzleloader company. It just felt like there was more, it was more, the ability to shoot long-range was definitely there by most people at a somewhat of an affordable rate, you know, with some of the out-of-the-box guns. So, as well as custom guns, you know. But anyway, kind of interesting. The New Mexico, when they went to a straight iron sight, they didn't do a one-power scope. And there's going to be some incredible bulls. And five-day hunts. Yeah. So, you not only have, like Utah's five-day early rifle, they have five-day, they have units that don't even have rifle hunts. All firearm hunts, whether it be muzzle or rifle. Yeah. Like 13, 17, 15 have no rifle hunting. They only have archery and muzzle. And with a muzzle, an open sight five-day hunt. Like, you're just not going to kill a little Breville.

You're going to see some, you're going to see an adjustment in quality. It's going to be off the charts. I'll bet in two or three years you're going to see it. With rain. You're going to have to add rain down there. Yeah. If you get dry years, you just don't have quality. It was a pretty good year. There was a lot of big bulls in New Mexico taking this last year. It was. Yeah. And a lot of big bulls lived. And a lot of bucks are living. I mean, I'm hearing back from muzzle or deer hunters. So, you are too. Pretty awesome. Okay. We're trying to talk about everything in the West in one podcast, but we're excited to be back in there. John, we're excited. We've got so many fun topics coming up. And we don't like to involve John on these podcasts. You know why? Because he always loves to say this one line, and I hate it. What? He says, so you're trying to make people less successful.

And I hate that line. I hate that line. But yes, we are. No, we aren't. We aren't. I think, generally speaking, when quality seems to have taken a dive, whether it be drought, long-term drought management, whatever. On any species, whatever it is, that we're hypersensitive to advantages. Yeah. Whether it be baiting or whatever it is. It doesn't matter. Weapon types and styles. We've seen all of these. If you look at where we're at as a society and an industry, things have changed so much, and it's all geared toward being more effective and killing at will, then, you know, it's fine if it's renewable resource like Bronson's talking about. Like, when the resource feels like it's renewable and no big deal, and you shoot this one, there's another big one. And what did he? We now, we're killing bucks, and they're just not there. It's like catching stripers out of Lake Powell.

You can't ever do enough to death. You can't do enough. That's not real there. I mean, you throw how many minutes? Anchobies. It may be in there. It don't matter. It doesn't matter. You cannot damage Lake Powell Stripe. No, you can't. Well, and I think a lot of times I'm, you know, joking around and playing devil's advocate, but there's definitely, no, I think there's definitely a time and a place that, you know, some of the regulations are warranted and whatnot. I mean, we saw that in Nevada. I think you're. In Nevada, we had a great moisture year. Yeah. Typically, we would see, you know, that come and affect things directly, immediately, and I just don't know if it did this year. We saw some, there were some great bucks killed out of it. We just, what we realized, we just don't have the numbers of deer. Yeah. And the numbers of old deer. I agree.

So you had moisture, but there still got to be four or five plus year old bucks to grow big antlers. Yeah. And that's what I think we realized. It's rare to see an eight year old. You know what I mean? A seven or eight, a true monarch, you know, that lived his life. I mean, it's just feels rare. And when you do, we, Bronson, we're in New Mexico, we're driving down the road and there's 180 inch looking deer. It's probably 178. Very boxy, good looking, thin horn deer. Right. And we all stopped to look at this deer. Yeah. Okay. Pretty buck. We all stopped. Pretty buck. Other states. We wouldn't have given him two glances five years ago. You know what I mean? On a 2016 year in Nevada, we'd be like, get out of the way. What'd you do? If you breed that doe, I'm going to be disappointed. You know what I mean? Because your eye guards aren't six inches tall and you don't have popcat mass.

So you haven't earned the right to breed that doe, you know? And now we're just like, please breed that doe. That's a majestic beauty. He's got batching fours with die guards. That's the way I've felt in Colorado. Hey, you know. And a lot of it is because they've had aggressive killing, aggressive tag numbers trying to combat, in their minds, combat CWD. And different things amongst, you know, just rifle rut hunting and allowing, you know, not making sure when we do have a winter kill that we've cleaned off the landscape enough and these bucks are in freezers. And there's some merit to some of that, but not, I don't know. It just, when you don't see any mature bucks at all, they struggle a little bit. It's disheartening. We've got a lot to talk about on the next podcast. We keep teasing it. Are we done? All right. Well, anyway. It's been good.

We want to just, once again, appreciate everybody's participation in the Meals Matter program. It was fun. We hope the winners had fun, had a little bit of excitement. At the end of it all, we appreciate the donors once again. It's not going to go away. We may make annual tweaks. We may add things, delete things as we see fit, just to kind of fit the vibe and feel of, you know, what we feel a movement like this needs to try to help accomplish in any given years. This year, coming off some of the bad drought years and then some of the big heavy winter loss that we had in other places, we kind of, that was what brought it to a head. And we can adjust that. It could be, you know, every year we could tweak it a little bit on states we want to include or how we want to do it. But we appreciate the support of it. It was fun doing. Took a lot of work.

Appreciate, Logan, your efforts in doing that. Logan, we're welcome to have you back. Welcome back to the workforce here at Epic Outdoors and not Meals Matter. Really? Yes. It feels good. I worked on some magazine stuff today and it was really nice. I like it. John, make sure he does a lot of Epic Outdoors work. He's got a lot of catching up to do, about 30 hours a week. Definitely. Yeah. 30 hours a week. Unpaid overtime. At least four or five months, wasn't it? Yeah. Anyway. Good work, Logan. Bigger than we thought it was going to be. Logan did a lot of the organization of it. And, you know, of course, John, you did a lot of that stuff too. And web design and all these kind of things. Designing of the ads. We're going to have more stuff coming out in the publications just to keep you posted on it.

It won't take away from statistics and drawing information and stories and things like that. Trust us. We get it. We know the importance there. But we do want to, you know, keep the momentum going. Let me give one shout out to our membership drive. It's going right now. So if you love the podcast and you're not a member, it's a great time to join. You join and you'll get a free entry into our giveaway. So like I mentioned before, I mean, you want to hunt a stone sheep and 80 grand is kind of out of your budget. Well, we're going to give you a free ticket to be entered into that drawing. And then there's seven other hunts that are all, you know, 20 to 30 grand. So type of dream hunts that you could win. So join. We even did some hunts, John. We talked about a coos deer and a wolf where we did a winner and their choice of partner to go with them. Yeah. And the expense is paid for both.

And I was talking to Bronson. We should pull two names maybe next time. Who knows, right? Yeah. But for now, there's going to be one winner pulled and you're going to take a friend. Yeah. So anyway, pretty awesome. Great lineup of hunts. You can also buy tickets to get in. Go to epicoutdoors.com. You should be able to get on our website. Check it out. And we're giving away your choice of a knife or a headlamp. And if you buy a $200 ticket package or a $500 ticket package, if you do the $500, of course, you'll get into the bonus draw, which is $10,000. And we write the check to the outfitter of your choice for the hunt of your choice. So that's real. And it happens. Of course, this is a membership drive. We want you to tell your buddies about us. All right, John, you got any other shout-outs? Over and out. We'd like to thank all of our sponsors here at Epic Outdoors.

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Visit phonescope.com to learn more. Stealth Cam has high-quality, durable trail cameras that we all love to use. Check them out at www.stealthcam.com or call us to order today. Here at Epic Optics, we are a verified dealer for Swarovski, Zeiss, Leica, Vortex, Stealth Cam, and more. Call us today to visit about the available optics we have and what would be right for you. Or visit epicoptics.com. For only $150 a year, you get nine issues of the Epic Outdoors magazine and unlimited access to our hunt consultants, as well as access to our verified research website. To see all the other member benefits, visit epicoutdoors.com. If you hunt multiple states, our services are essential. The Epic Outdoors License Application Service is for you if you ever miss deadlines or would like help developing your long, medium, and short-term license application goals.

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