EP 323: To Catch a Trail Cam Thief and the Last Few Weeks of Scouting

You're listening to the Epic Outdoors podcast. Check us out at epicoutdoors.com.

Hey everybody, Jason Carter. Adam Bronson's hunting. He's up north in Canada. In fact, got word that he killed a stud. So, kind of excited to hear more about it. Via inReach, so that was good. Got the infamous WB, Wyatt Bowles, John, Josh. How y'all doing? Cash? Devin? How you doing, Devin? I'm good, man. Are you healed up from, you know, your little competition race? Oh, yeah. Tell us about it. Man March. Also want to acknowledge Logan. That's a good way of putting it. Also want to acknowledge Logan at the keyboard. How you doing, Logan? I'm doing good. Good, yeah. Just pushing buttons like crazy over here. No ring yet? No ring on your finger or her finger? No. Not since two weeks ago, no. Can you believe that? You've been lighting up Tinder? Oh, yeah. Wyatt just gave me some killer advice today. What did he say? I can't wait to implement that. Oh, yeah? Well, he said...

You know, these guys, they know a lot. He's the Tinder... Well, I probably shouldn't say that. Him and Devin are the Tinder masters. That's what I was going to say, but I didn't know if you could say that about married people. But there's probably profiles still on there from when they were the masters. They never go away. That stuff better be long deleted like MySpace. Does Tinder have DMs? That's what it's all about. Oh, behind the scenes messaging? Yeah? Yeah. You just see their profile and message them. I'd like to look at your DMs from Tinder. Devin's, baby. Why didn't you? Because you were successful. It's been five, seven years since I've had... You bagged one. Since I've had... I bagged one. I found a 1% of the 1%er on there. A keeper. A keeper. There you go. It gets harder every day. They've hit Devin wanting to do commercials.

Testimonials? Oh, a testimonial. I want no part of that. Got a good one. All right. Well, Tinder is what it is, right? Yes. It's actually the most popular dating app in the world, probably. I would say so. And it used to be used for certain things. Now it's used for real dating. That's right. Right? And certain things. Yeah. You get what you want out of Tinder. There you go. Logan knows. Anybody that needs a Tinder account, hit up Logan. He'll help you. I never thought we'd do run commercials for Tinder. I've been wondering what that Wazoo camera was used for. The Epic camera. Taking headshots. You bought those big white sheets. Oh, yeah. He ordered bed sheets by the dozen. There's some big bed sheets and these great big strange looking lights. Makes you look real good. What do you have to use all that for, Logan? That's our department secrets that we can't reveal.

Oh, it's for product and showcasing product. But it was interesting. Logan, this is the time you do want to tell the truth. It's okay. Tell the truth. I didn't know where my NDA came in. Yeah, yeah. These aren't trade secrets, Logan. He told Wyatt and I. He also downloaded another app that he was helping to try and look for a glassing buddy from Colorado. Grindr? Is that what he said? Oh, my gosh. Is there an app called that? You wouldn't believe how many people want to come help me hunt. He's taking a sweet wall tent. That's right. Stow it. It's fire lit. Everything. Oh, my gosh. If they're here, there's some pretty hardcore dudes on there. Oh, I'm sure there are. Want a glass. Help him. Share a tent. Don't believe every profile you see. Yeah, they're catfish. We've talked to you about catfish. We have talked about catfish. You've been. He got catfish. I am very well.

He's aware of the catfishing problem. I am. Yes. I am. He'd be catfished down there in Colorado.

Gunnison. Oh, man. I hope not. All right. So, let's move on. Let's hear about Devin's race. Let's hear about Devin's race. Devin? You got prepped? I like what Cash said. A man march. It's a man march. Yeah. There you go. Trained a lot. Yeah. It was the biggest one I've ever done. I think it was the biggest one they got. No kidding. It was a beast, right? Yeah. Which one is it? It was a beast. Spartan. Spartan. Yep. It's the biggest one for that series of events? Yeah, I think they have some ultra one for like these, you know. Okay. It's like marathons. Okay. So, it's not the biggest one they do. Certified crazy people. I'm sure there's something. Yeah. Okay. But as far as that race weekend, it was the biggest one. How many miles was it? 14 and a half. Jeez. Wow. Across the ski resort? Well, it's supposed to be 13. Whatever. The half marathon or whatever.

You know, penalty loops and things like that. For what? How do you end up in a penalty loop? When you try to climb a wall and fall, you have to do a penalty loop. Oh, my gosh. If you fail an obstacle, it's 30 burpees worth penalty loop. Did the heights? Let me tell you something. Burpees are no joke. They're no joke. They're no joke. I saw no one do burpees. People just. I'll take the loop. We go to this wall and it's like, I don't know. Eight foot. The first little hand things are like eight feet. I'm not even six foot tall. I could jump pretty high. Wyatt's seen it. He hops. Yeah. He hops. Yeah. He can. Call him the jack.

Anyways. One out of ten people complete it. And we're doing the penalty loop. I'm looking around. I'm like, where's everybody at? A lot of cheaters. Oh. They took the shortcut? Well, yeah. Did the penalty loop. They started after you and ended before you? They didn't do the penalty loop. They failed and just kept going. Oh. Yeah. It's fine. Those are the boys. The boy marches, whatever. And who cares about those guys? They don't get turned into men. It's fun, man. I feel good. It's about. It's basically hiking. Yeah. Some of those hills, it's at a ski resort and they're just straight up. Wow. I did eat mustard for the first time. Dude, that mustard's no joke. It works. What are you telling John about it? I did it. Yeah. The other day. Did you try it? That's awesome. Yeah. So, John, this would have helped you in the Escalina. Oh, man. Yeah. I would have needed a bottle, a jug. That's fine.

A jug of mustard. Yeah. You'll appreciate mustard from here on out. Yeah. Like, I literally grabbed two packs from a Maverick. Yeah. And had them in my backpack and we're going, it's probably mile seven or eight. Yeah. And it's already 90 degrees. And dude, my, like, quads. Lock up. Lock up. Lock up. I've never cramped. It's usually my hamstrings like packing meat or elk or whatever. And I had to stop. I dug for those things. And as I'm bending down, I'm cramping. I'm like, I got problems. Jeez. And I hate mustard. Slurped it down. Slurped the next one down. By the time I put all my stuff back in my little bag. Dude, I was fine. No. It's unbelievable. I took off. I didn't cramp for another two, three hours. I don't know why we didn't learn about this when we were young. Like, come on. Yeah, I don't know.

What I worry about is, you know how when you go to, like, Kentucky Fried Chicken, they have the honey packets. But when you look at the honey, it's imitation honey. It's not like real honey. Some of them. I'm like, I just worry about those packets. You're getting them from Maverick. Is that a real mustard or is that some kind of imitation? I may have ate one from the year prior that I didn't use. Whatever. In the bottom of your truck. I pulled out mustard packets from the bed of my truck. And I'm like, no, these are probably pretty good. Yeah, they're fine. I don't think so. No, I don't either. It's nasty. It works. It's bad from the start. Well, so you were proud of yourself. I was proud of you. And you did well. Like, you did well. Like, way better than you thought. I mean, you were howling for a week before it started. Well, yeah, we did. We hiked Timpanogas.

We did some big, big hikes that were eight hours, nine hours. So what were some of the obstacles?

The worst one's a barbed wire crawl. You have to crawl under a barbed wire fence for, like, 80 yards. When's the last time you crawled? 80 yards? I don't crawl over. It's a long ways. Maybe. That's a long, long way. I mean.

I don't crawl over. You know what I'm saying. Like, yeah, just stuff like that. I get on my knees to get under my truck to see if my shocks are leaking about once every day. Do that 80 yards. It's hard on a whole guy. And it's legit barbed wire. It'll hook you. Yeah. Jeez. They got sandbag carries. Well, we signed you up. I mean, Devin signed you up. You're up for next year. I did. Oh, did you? Yeah, you're on my team. Oh, awesome. Oh, shoot. Well, just finding this out. You ready? Yeah, yeah. I actually signed a whole epic team. Come on. I'll have to send you the bill. I'm in. I'm in. I'll do it. You're up for it? I'll do it. I'm in. You got youth on your side. You don't even need to. That's why I'm like, I'll do it now so I don't have to do it later.

Josh, you in? Yeah, sure. Whole epic team. And that includes you and Adam and John. If I go, I'm carrying a rock to the top. There's no way. No, they have rocks for you. Oh, they do? They got these big Atlas balls. They're like this. What do you do with them? You pick them up and you walk down around a pole and back. I don't know how much they weigh. 800 pounds or something. How far is down and back? Oh, it's not very far. Yeah, a real man carries the top of a mountain. It's getting them off the ground. Yeah. Or a bear. They have bears. Is that an option to carry one of those? A what? A bear. A bear. How about a carcass? Yeah. I'm carrying my own carcass is what it feels like. It's hard enough. A moose corner. All right. So here we are. You know what? It's kind of interesting now that we have these, like, people love to call them the trail cam band. Arizona's got a band.

You can't use them. So there's trail cam seasons here in Utah and Nevada. And it's kind of interesting how all of a sudden we come right to the end. It feels like we're at the end of our scouting season, right? Like August 1 is the end of the scouting season, although really it's just getting started in Idaho and Montana and Colorado and New Mexico and other places, Arizona. But here in Utah, we call it the end of our scouting, right? So you'd be out there in the hills by yourself running cameras if you wanted to do it illegally. Right? Nobody would be out there except for maybe Josh. I don't know. Josh? Josh? Oh, I got all my cameras pulled. Oh, yeah. I'll be out glassing now, but not trail cam. Good answer. He's going to be running glass. Yeah. Kind of to the transition zone. Transition. The scouting transition. Which it's kind of nice. You have to be out there now.

I was thinking about it last night. I'm relieved. Yeah. I'm like. I was tired sucker the other day. I know. I'm over it. I just, you get camera problems and issues and I got to go swap that camera out and do this and I don't know. Camera maintenance is terrible. Camera theft is terrible. Yes, it is. I was telling Josh after I pulled mine, or maybe it was Wyatt, I haven't wanted to run them more in my life. I know. Meaning what? Just like you get a photo now and you're like, where was he for three weeks? And then you start looking and thinking and I'm like, I want to go. I want to go. I've got some new places. You find something or see something like. I guess next year. I want to put a camera there. Nevermind. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, the net result. Cash. What do you got? I got stuff. I got things. I got stuff of all shapes and sizes. Yeah. Not all shapes and sizes. You did good.

You covered multiple units. A couple. Some for elk, some for deer. Yeah. Everything looks good. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of animals that look really good and there's a lot of young animals. So, I just want to tell you how this office rolls. Give people a little insight.

Cash. We asked Cash to show us a little scouting photos. Okay. Guess what we got? The animal but no background. Full cut out. Fully cut out. Yeah. The animal didn't even have legs. He didn't even have legs. Why from the knees up? That's it. You can't have the background or anything. So, Wyatt's first question is, does he really only have three legs?

I haven't even seen this. It must be some freak giant. No. It isn't. Pull it up. Show him. I'll show you. Here you go. Three-legged. It's because of the original photo. There's headstones. So, I don't know. He's a cemetery. He's a town. Next to Finn. Some guy's house. In the backyard. Between crumble cookie and swig. There you go. That's all you get. Is that when you push it down? So, do you push it down? It glows around it. You can copy it and paste it. I sometimes accidentally do that. But tell me. Do me. Let's teach people. Teach me something. That's a trail camera photo? Yeah. You hold it down and then what? So, you. Let me find a picture so we can do it. See what I mean? So, here you go. I'm telling you, Cash is the most secretive. We always thought Wyatt was. No. I'm not that secretive. Not even close. No. Although, I don't know.

There's things Wyatt still hasn't divulged that we know that he doesn't know we know. You take it and you just touch the little image right there. I've done that on accident before. The problem is. Sometimes they don't work. Sometimes it leaves out the dropped tang or some other tang. It'll crop some stuff. Usually, colored pictures do it. Yeah. You got a good contract. Here you go. Take us to a daylight pic. I like it. Is there a. Oh, you better hurry, guy, because I'm getting that background. Let's go to a bowl picture. Then you can copy it. And then you go into your notes here. Oh, your notes and paste it? And then you can go paste. And there he is. You can put photos in your notes, huh? Yeah. Wow. But don't look as heavy. You can put it. You can put it on text and stuff, too, and whatever. It just gives you the idea.

We should have a regular section in the podcast that's the techie section that teaches old fellers like us something. Well, Wyatt taught us something yesterday, too. What? The little tape measure thing. Oh, Wyatt. Let's say it out loud. Unless that's an insider trade secret. Well, I didn't really learn it. I guess I was taught it. A long time ago, right? I kind of discussed it with you guys. It was pretty legit. It seems to work. Yeah. Using the measuring tape there on your iPhone. So, let's walk us through the steps. Hold on. Is it more effective, you think, than the paper clip method? Because there was a paper clip that was used for another paper clip the other day. We should give Devin that picture, that real secret picture I got. You know. You want me to? No. I'm lost. The one you told me was 28 and three-quarter inches wide. Oh, okay. Yeah. We should give Devin. We should give Devin.

I threw the paper clip away. I had it measured out perfectly. My buck's pick. Why would you throw that away? I thought I was done with it. No. You don't think there's going to be any more deer ever? We're going to see two and a half, three and a half bucks for the rest of the year. But it only worked for the one photo. Oh. It only worked for one photo. So, I measured a real deer's ear. You measured the ear on that deer. Because I never got this photo of a buck facing me. But I had his ear. So, from the base of the tip was eight and a half inches. Okay. And you got that from your mounts in your office? The smallest mount in my office. Smallest deer. I chose the smallest deer. Okay. Because all ears are equal. Yeah. And then I used a paper clip and I marked exactly how long it was. And then I went one, two, three. And a little over three and a half, which would be paper clips.

Well, we did that high school. 29.75. That's Bush League. That's not even accurate. There's only one way to find out. All I know is he was walking around. It was that day you guys were all gone. He was walking around paper clipping everybody's office. Clicking that. Going back to his computer screen.

What did you end up with? I just said it. 31. 29.75. 29.75 on the conservative side. 31. That might be my own personal gut feeling. I feel like my gut feel is a little 31.5. It's a good looking bull, though. I mean. Bull?

30 inch maybe. This is how this office rolls. It's really narrow. So, Wyatt, are you okay with teaching people something or is this really something you don't want to teach them? I don't know we can really teach them. What do you mean? It's just a measuring tool. It's essentially the exact same thing as the paper clip concept. Go into your camera. Open it up. Yep. Got it. Okay. Now what? Roll into a photo. Ooh. That one I dare. Yeah. Let's have cash through that phone. Scroll through that phone and see what's in there.

Cash, send me a picture. I don't want why it's in my pics. Let's look at an elk. Just have him cast it onto this TV here. Let's talk secret of it. You got to put different numbers on an elk. Wyatt has the deer numbers, but you probably have to figure it out for an elk what number you'd use. So let's just say, let's just make a point. I got a picture of Adam right here. Should we see how wide his head is? Whoa. Okay. Do it with Josh. You kind of have to have a reference. Yeah. You have to have a, for sure. All right. So anyway, you'll go into a photo. You have to have that constant. Then you're going to go up to your editing deal up there. Where at? Hit it. Hit it. Top right corner. And then what? In the top right corner of the pen. It says markup. Okay. And usually I take this and I circle things. And then it gives you a ruler right there. The ruler. Oh, geez. I didn't know that existed.

And you straighten it? And straighten it. Sometimes it's difficult. Oh, for crap sakes. Let's see. Okay. Got it. Then you put on your glasses. Then you put on your glasses. You got to use those little lines and line it up. Then you line up the lines. Using its eyeballs. Okay. Using the eyeballs. This is for a muley. Yeah, for a mule deer. Okay. And kind of an average is what we've kind of. Five and three quarters. Yeah, five and three quarters. You're talking the very center of eye. Very outside of the eyes. Kind of outside. Outside. The edge of eyeball to edge of eyeball. Which, I mean, we know some people. We're going to get called out on this left and right. Well, we know some people that have eyes dang near on the side of their head. Yeah. And then people like me that have really narrow eyes. That's why I'm hesitant here is because we're going to get called out on it.

Somebody's going to kill a 24-inch. You got a strip buck that's looking like this. That's what I'm saying. I chose the smallest ear I could. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. And then you got a buck in southern Nevada out of Vegas. It's dainty. I mean, you got to use your better judgment here, whether it's got a small head or a big head. Then you go five and a quarter to six. To six, yeah, probably. I've had, remember you and I did this on some big headed bucks. Yeah. We were like, okay, that's a six. That's a six and a quarter. That's Hans Redbush right there. Yeah. Big old farmer. Yeah. You know. All right. So you're going to line that up on its eyes and then basically you're going to count the lines and do the division. Same thing that Devin. Then you add up how many lines we've got for the outside and then off we go. And that has to be facing like straight at you, right? Yeah. Pretty much.

Pretty much a head-on photo for it to work. I think the paper clip thing was a genius idea, I thought. And it probably works very similar. Yeah. I've done that too. Like not a paper clip, but like stuff, like measure stuff. Not me, a piece of paper. So I can see the edge. So I'll rip a piece of paper and then use the straight edge. You wanted to get serious, you'd probably hang a big tape measure behind the background of where you're going to put your trail cameras. There you go. Just in the background so you have the reference. I had a buck do that. Came in on a yardstick stuck in a tree. Yeah, yardstick back there. Tape to a branch. You'd be pretty accurate, wouldn't you, Joey? Well, it just depends on depth. I mean, how far in front of it or behind it. I guess that's probably true. I had a buck. Just hang it from a tree. Have one hanging right over your trophy rock. That's right.

Just hope he hits it. Just right over the trophy rock that was defecated on. Okay, so that leads us into some etiquette. The scouting etiquette that you all have witnessed. Well, it seems like there's been a lot of problems this year with cameras being stolen and ripped off. And I don't know if it's just because less guys are running cameras because of the season. They're just taking what they see. Well, it's really easy, I think, for opportunists. I think poachers and thieves, truck camera thieves, go hand in hand. I really feel that way. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's no lower form of life than someone will destroy somebody else's property. And I feel like there's people we know that are stealing cams, and we know they're edgy. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so, I mean, I'm not saying somebody doesn't have a weak moment and check somebody's card or whatever.

Or somebody leaves things unlocked, and they're basically saying, check my card and put it back, if you would, or whatever. I've never done it, but I'm just saying. But, anyway, so that's happened. And with this truck camera season, it's really easy. It's hard to put up cameras 1st of July, take them down, or service them mid-July and take them down into July. Like, there's a lot of running. If you're running a real trapline, it's significant. You know what I mean? And so, it's really easy to just go collect some cards, you know? Like, out on the landscape. Do you guys feel that with the new change, basically this season, there's more or less cameras? I felt like there were more. I felt like there were more. I felt like there were more, too. Well, where I was running, I mean, where we were out and about, a lot less.

Yeah, I seem less, too, like, even on the popular units when I've been over on the limited entry units. But I felt like that. Josh, but you're out in the bush. You're out. Who knows? You're some wallows, but there's so much water in the places you've run. Sometimes you're on trails and stuff. So, I don't know. Do you have a good feel? I feel like it's, I don't know. I don't know. I can't say if it's more or less. But I've found more in random places, I guess you could say. Yeah. People are getting creative. Yeah. Yeah. And it's maybe because I generally try and put mine in random places, too. I don't, you know, I just, instead of on a water or something like that, I try and put them on a saddle that they might be using to get to that water or to that feeding or something. Just so that I don't get my stuff messed with. Because I didn't this year.

And I had, this was the first time I didn't have, because I had some cameras this year from Stealth Cam that couldn't go in boxes. And I didn't lock them up. I didn't, I just slapped them on a tree with a little gray strap that comes with them. And bid them farewell. You know what I think we should do? So, you know what I wonder if we, we should do a contest to see who can catch a Trocam thief. Ooh, I like where you're going here. And give the winner like 25 or 30 cameras. Yeah. I like it. And submit the proof. And then we repost the proof. Yeah, we re, well, or proof that, like, it's on video mode, you've got them. And then, and you sign your name to it. So, like, it's not like you lied about that that was your camera or not. Like, you sign your name to it, and then we throw it up on the Epic social media, and we give the winner who has the best proof or whatever, like, 25 or 30 cameras.

Yeah. That'd be fun. That'd be fun. We could do something next year. Like, I'm, it's my goal to, it's my goal to. Publicly shame someone. But I'm not, I can't participate. The photo? So it can be like, I caught this guy, and it's actually the guy's buddy. It's going to be an actual. Oh, yeah. You're going to lambaste him.

I don't know. I think we should do it. It just, it's weird to me. It feels like more people, I don't know whether there's more or less cameras, but more people are getting cameras messed with now. Yeah. And it doesn't matter. You put them in boxes. You put them behind a lock. People are finding ways to mess with your cameras. But I think people are pretty smart, and I think you would take some extra time. There's a little contest involved, but also I think there's people are amped up wanting. It's almost like hunting people. It kind of swaps, switches around a little bit. I wanted to put, I've got a bunch of cameras that don't work, and I save them and just throw them up, like make them think they're stealing something that works. You know what I mean? That's a good idea. But also, you're also, I'm coding them. So you can't be used, like you can't un-code them.

Like we deal in stealth, and they won't give you a code. What could they do with that camera? All you can do is take the batteries in the car. And eliminate your competition, which that's happened, especially on high-profile areas, you know, the strip and things like that. There's guys that'll, you know, you're slowing down your competition because they don't have the knowledge. You know what I mean? Yeah. But I don't know if that's happening out here as much. But I feel like some of these places we're running, it's a few, dude, not everybody. I think it's a few guys that are getting really creative and aggressive and just cleaning them out. I had a theory with that once. I put my name on my cameras, a batch of them, because I thought if I ever run into the person who's been stealing them, they were getting stolen, I'll look them in the eye and just, I don't know.

They know they ripped me off. I was looking their soul like that owl looked into your soul in 051. Well, that was a good vibe. It comforted me. I don't know. It was weird. But then, funny story, this lady comes up to me at the expo. She says, hey, are you Devin? I'm like, yeah. And she had my camera. She found it in her kid's bedroom. Oh. Gave it back to me. Wow. Wow. You know he got in trouble. You know he got in trouble. He skipped the part that she found him on Twitter first. And I was like, okay, that's, or not Twitter, on. Tinder. Tinder. I was like, that's Devin. Back in the DMs. If you went back to your DMs, maybe you guys dated once. I don't know. No, she gave me a camera.

I know. Which was really nice of her. But anyways, yeah, I don't know. That was interesting. Devin, I have a picture here I need you to decipher for me. Let me find it. Oh, boy. I need to know if this is good or bad. I got this picture, and I need to know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Oh, you showed me this. That's kind of cool. I don't think that's a good thing. Let me see. That's not good. That's the look right before something sees, before it gets ripped in half. Wow. That's pretty much good. Or you lose an eye. That owl is not kind. The thing's coming from blood. He's got a straight up. Trail cam pick of an owl. We got to give that to. Coming straight at your camera. Wow. Give that to Logan for the podcast calls. But I thought the owl seeing us in Nevada was the good thing. Well, it did. It spoke to us. You were there. I feel like this is. This thing's not doing that.

This is speaking to me. It's got to look. This thing's taking your soul. Because that's the only picture I ever got of it. It was just coming at my camera. I feel like it's telling me everything's going to be okay. Well, it does give you a little soothing feeling. A, you weren't there. You know, owls are meat eaters.

They're mean, dude. That's true. Don't mess with an owl or a red-tailed hawk. Maybe we'll have to do an Instagram poll or something. Well, I'm going to say, ask people if it's a good sign or a bad sign. You get a picture of an owl staring into your trail camera. All right. So what would be some techniques of catching somebody? You hide cameras? Yeah. We don't want to say too much because. Oh, okay. We'll keep it. Keep it. But I do think it's important. It's really nice to have dead-end roads and then cameras getting plates coming in and out. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. But then the actual act. And if you had cell cam photo or transmitters, that would help. I talked to Aaron the other day and he said there was a spot that it was kind of loaded with cameras. It's kind of a spot that's known to have cameras. And people just put them there. That's what you do.

And there's always like a big bowl there. And everybody just gets the same picture of the same bowl or whatever. And he went up there to get them and he said it was cleaned out. Okay. Every camera was gone. So I think there's. Is this Aaron Bronson? Yeah. I think we should call Aaron. I think we should too. Because he wanted us. There's a story or two. He wanted us to. He actually said, we need to talk about this. So yeah. Let's call him. I think we should. Let's call Aaron. Like when he says there's a lot. Is there three or four? Like 10? Five? It sounded like 10. Wow. Like a pretty popular spot and has been on this particular unit for 20 years. And then we need to go. I guess we need to flesh out a little bit more on what we've all experienced during this. And maybe even the ethics of hunting and scouting and setting up trailers and all of that in general.

You know, sitting next to each other on glassing knobs. Devin, you like to sit really close to people. Visit with them. Check on their families. Shake their hand. Go to the Spartan race with them.

Social butterfly. Social butterfly you are. You guys see it much? All right. Hold on. Let's call Aaron for a minute and see if he answers. I have to call him again. Must be researching some tires. For Adam.

This is Aaron. Sorry. Winches. Adam's our research. Or Aaron's our research guy. He's going to be like, really, Jason?

Hello. You're not busy, are you? I'm always busy.

You're on the podcast. I'm just going to warn you up front. Yeah, you got a hot mic. Hot mic warning. Got it. Are you talking into the phone? I can't tell. I didn't throw and run. I can't hear you very good. Are you talking into the mic? Yeah. There we go. I mean, I don't have a fancy headset or anything. I'm just talking on my phone. Is it on speaker? It does feel a little bit. It does seem. We should call him back. We should call him back? Yeah. Have I got you at an okay time to talk for about five minutes? Oh, yeah. You're good. You're not researching tires or winches for Adam or light bars? He's good. No, he's good. Maybe find someone in the office with an Android and call me back. Okay. All right. Talk to you in a sec.

That's what it is. He's got an Android. His texts are green. I forget that. They're green, but here he goes. Hey. Yeah. Yeah. That's a little better.

Talk again. Testing. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Did it click in? Yeah. I'm in. I can hear you guys fine. Okay. All right. Hey. So, we're just talking about, of course, we're coming at the end of our scouting season in relation to trail cams. Oh, boy.

That's not a hot topic. Okay. And I just, just A, wondering how your season went, B, maybe the ethics of trail cams and some of the interesting things you've experienced and witnessed. Well, this will be good because, yeah, we need to educate the hunting population on trail cam etiquette. Yeah. Because I'm getting a little sick of it. Yeah. We are, too. Yeah. So, what do you got? Well, just lots of problems with trail cams. It's none that I'm doing on my own, but basically, yeah, all of the above. We've had locks cut, cards taken, and if they couldn't cut the lock, we've had trees cut down. Come on. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. They cut the whole tree down and no sign of the tree or the camera. Wow.

That's crazy. That's pretty aggressive. Yeah. Pretty aggressive. So, what do they take? I mean, is this a significant tree and did they just lop out the center of it where the camera was attached or what? We couldn't find the tree. Probably 12-inch diameter pines. Yeah. And we can't find the tree or the camera. Wow.

And the area around there, they just cut all the locks, left the cameras, but took all the SD cards and then left the cameras off and then just left everything, but didn't get any cards. So, that was one incident. And then the other one setting them up this year, sometimes you leave your boxes because, hey, I stay here every year. I'm just going to leave my box. I take my lock and my camera and take it, right? Right. Show up and the whole lock, the whole box is just smashed against the tree. Jeez. Like, they just took a log or a rock and just smashed it against the tree so you can't reuse it. So, is this up by where you live or some of these elk units that you're running? No, these are down south. Down south. Where the stakes are high. Yeah. Right. So, I mean, and the awareness I just want to get out of there is, I mean, the people

that keep doing it is, I mean, you can't complain or take it to anyone. If you do the division, I mean, eventually the division just can be like, forget it. No more trail cameras. Yeah. Like Arizona. Arizona got tired of it. Yeah. Yeah. Because people are just calling in, hey, my camera got stolen and no one cares and no one is going to catch the guy or try to. It's just, I just see the issue going to be that the state's going to be fed up with complaints and just like, oh, you're fine. We'll just do no trail camera. Yeah. That's what I see and that's what I want to get out there is just like, come on, Pete. So, etiquette is, I just need to leave the cameras alone. I mean, it's pretty easy. Yeah. Wow. Wow. That's crazy. You guys having any trouble? Did you guys get all your cameras? Did the 360 get off the mountain in one piece?

Yeah. People are scared of the weird cameras. Yeah. Maybe that's what I need to get is a few of those. Cellulars. And have it immediately put to your phone, you know what I mean? Yeah. A cellular 360 that no one can sneak up on. Yeah. Because then you have a picture of the guy at least. Yeah. Well, I think it's the ladies. There's got to be hunters. I think it's the ladies that are taking the cameras.

Guys wouldn't do it.

I'm not sure what they benefit from it, but I don't know who's taking them. Yeah. Or who's messing with them. So, yeah, so instantly you think, oh, there must be a big bull there. They got a picture of it. They don't want anyone else getting a picture. I don't know. I just don't. I try to think what would the situation with Warren and stuff. That's been neglect. I can't come up with a good solution. You guys? No. Maybe catch them. We're thinking about having a little contest and people that catch them red-handed, we post them the proof and then give the winner that has the best proof like 25 or 30 cameras. Oh, that's a good idea. It really is. To replenish what they've lost over the last two years. I think just public shaming is the way to go. And that's all you can do. And, yeah, I hope to get a picture of it. Yeah. And then you just, yeah, light them up on.

But, Aaron, you're pretty sneaky. Like, how can you not catch one of these guys? I think you're going to catch them next year. I don't know. Well, so, yeah, the one way to catch them was to put a big, we put a big lock. Like, the other locks are pretty substantial. But the other one, this one was big. Well, that kind of the back door camera. Well, that's the one that they cut the tree down. Oh, they cut the tree down. The lock was significant? Yeah, it was a big, beefy lock. And that's what we assumed. Whatever they had to cut, we couldn't tell if it was like a grinder or what they used. But whatever they had, they couldn't cut down the beefy lock. So, they just locked the tree down. Wow.

Pretty frustrating.

What's that? Pretty frustrating. I mean, I feel like if I see a camera, you guys are probably the same way. I just go out of my way not to even get a picture. I don't want to be anywhere near it. Yeah.

But other people see it and just, I guess, want to have it and use the data on it. Where they cut this tree down, was it near a road or any trail or four-wheeler trail, side beside anything like that? It's a mile. It's a mile. It's a lot of packed a saw. Not close, but not far. Just right in that buffer zone. And they lop the tree down and you can't find the tree a mile. On the camera. No. I mean, no. Like they drug the tree out to their truck or something? Yeah. Maybe Christmas tree. I don't know. Early. Maybe they drug it with an electric bike.

A Rokon. Two-wheel drive little. I don't know. That one's a mystery that has got to my head the most. And so do you have a feeling of who it is? No. I wouldn't even know where to start. Wow. Because there's not, I mean, there was other cameras in there in this particular spot. There's other cameras in there. Yeah. But they're all pulled. You know, they're all playing fair that way. So did you know? We just went in to pull them this week and that's all we found. Did you find a big bull?

Not on those cameras. Well, we don't know. We don't know the answer. All right. Well. Dude. Okay. Well, yeah. I don't know. So etiquette-wise, I mean, you got any advice for people? You never check anybody. I never check anybody's car. No. But there's no lock on it. Whatever, right? It's not your work. No. No. I don't. Even if it's no lock, I ran across one of those and, you know, just walk right on by. Like, I don't know. It's pretty simple etiquette, but apparently it's not common knowledge. It's just across the hunting community because I'm not the only one having the problem. I feel like trail camera thieves are very likely poachers, too. I feel like that one goes with the other. Probably, yeah. And poachers is a harsh word, but just a guy that lives in the gray. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. He's not afraid to. I mean, I just, yeah, I don't know.

And as many cameras as I just have a hard time, you just think you're going to get pictures on someone's camera, probably. There was one year. You can't avoid them all. There was one year in Nevada, there was, people were getting cleaned out of cameras. And you would naturally think it's another competitor, another hunting competitor. It was actually a meth addict. They ended up catching them. It was like a meth addict. Oh, really? And he was selling them? He needed the money. What was he doing with that? Oh, really? Selling them? Yeah. Like, if you go up to a water hole, some of these, there was one water hole. Oh, I did bring cameras. They'll pop. Oh, those are 40 cameras. You know, and a lot of people don't coat them. Put on a code, so they're sellable. You know what I mean? Yep. If they're not coated. It's easier than copper. Then you sell the box for weight, melt it down.

You got a few locks. You got scrap metal and locks. Yeah, it probably adds up. Thank you, yeah. So what are you going to do different next year? I don't know. I mean, you always think about strategies. Like, okay, I'm going to put a camera low, and I'm going to put one high, and I'm going to catch the guy.

But I've never come up with a good plan to do it. My kid's got a good taste of it. I told him. I said, you leave that camera. One particular camera. I said, you leave it out. Like, we're going to do it. You're going to lose it. Went out there, cleaned off. Gone. You know. And it was a beautiful. It was video mode. It was going to be cherry. All the best stuff. Yeah. The buck they liked. I mean, just anyway. Yeah, you can double up. Like, yeah, you can do a 360, or you can do things from each other. But I don't know. All they got to do is, I don't know. Yeah. When they cleaned the whole pocket out, and they were on the cut of tree down for one. I don't know what. There's not much you can do. Was it a significant tree? No, like 12. Probably 12 inch. Yeah. I mean, not a handsaw. I mean, it'll be a long handsaw. Not a handsaw.

Still a good size tree. I would say a Sawzall probably did that one. A mile? Yeah. You could pack a Sawzall. You could have done it. Yeah, you can. Yeah, exactly. And I don't know why they didn't use it to cut the lock off. You know, that's, I don't know. It was a beefier lot, but. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. So just, yeah. In the hunting community, just trail cam etiquette, or we're going to lose trail cam. I mean, it's as simple as that. Yeah. So, all right. Well, okay. You got anything else for us? I guess your brother smashed a great ram. Yeah, he got a ram just today. Yeah. So we got to fly without him today, I guess. Yeah. I haven't heard of any measurements, and I hate to bug him too much. No. Nope. I haven't heard anything. So. On to Caribou now. So. Yep. On to something else. Yep. Four legs. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. That'll be good to hear his story and good reports.

That'll be awesome. All right. Have you got anything else for us? What are the best tires to buy? What are you finding out there? I need a set. You need a set. Wyatt needs a set. He had me nervous the other day. Yeah. I'm getting close on two trails. Well, he was down to like a third, half to a third. Made it just fine. Tread on no-namers. I mean, I don't even recognize the tread. What are they? That's not fine. Oh, are they? Yeah. Yeah. The hand cooks? Yeah, they'll be all right. Don't you think, Aaron? Yeah. Probably C-rated. I need to go look.

No, that's Devin. Devin got C-rated. That was one time.

Hey, it's better than P.

Yeah. No. Luckily, there's a lot of good ones out there right now. I think if you get a good tall pipe tire, you'll know. Yeah. You know when you know. I've been running the same ones for a long time, so those Nittos have been good for me. Mickey? The Mickey Thompsons? The Nittos. Oh, the Nittos. I think Adam and I are running a Mickey, which is kind of an inexpensive version of a Max, ST Max or something. Aaron, which Nitto? The Ridge Grappler. That's what John is. That's what I run. Yeah. I've been running the Trail Grapplers. Same. Huh. Yeah, they're good. BFG's got a new one out that should be really good. The KO3, I believe, they're up to a C now.

I don't know. I haven't had that. I didn't have that good luck, so I have a hard time trying them again. But maybe with a new pattern and who knows, rubber compounds change pretty regular. Yeah, and they do change a lot, and that's what you've got to watch out for. But these ones supposedly are good because all the complaints they've got. But I haven't ran any. I haven't ran a set. But it's had time. You better have some good shoes on right now. Yeah. Well, at least you've got a truck. You're good. You've got a four-wheel drive truck. Hey, yeah. Things are good. Life's good. Yeah, and that's what I thought you were calling for. That was like a two-and-a-half-year-old apology I was waiting for. Whoa.

Because it wasn't right after I got my truck and got public shame that you guys had a little hard time getting your own. Oh, yeah. But we didn't hear anything about that. No, we didn't hear. I've just been waiting for two-and-a-half hours for a public apology. I appreciate it at all. Well, it ain't happening, but hey.

All right, guy. Okay, is there any big bucks around?

None. None that I've seen. Did you get any bucks on those cameras over there? I'd be interested in that for sure. Yeah, but nothing you'd be interested in. Oh. All right. Two-and-a-half, three-and-a-half-year-olds? Yeah. I mean, there's a couple of Queen Shank ones that Josh would probably look at. It blows me away because that's like the most productive and best unit in Utah, and I just can't believe it. Well, on paper, there's nothing that beats it. Yeah. She's crazy. Yeah, it is crazy. Best general? Nothing good. Yeah, but nothing good. No. All right. Well, unless the camera that got stolen had it on it, who knows? Yeah, who knows? Probably had a good one. Somebody does. All right. Well, let's catch one. You guys keep going after it, huh? Yeah, let's catch a guy this next year. Okay. Probably putting about a 12-inch nail behind the tree behind my camera.

I'll probably get into a number. Yeah. Drive a nail behind there. Booby-chat? I don't know. You show up, there'd be a dead guy there. My chainsaw bounced back and clip a dracular. These are accidents. Yeah. That's pretty bad, though. That's kind of the feeling you get. I mean, if I'm opening somebody's box, I mean, you could have it trapped. Ooh. Yeah. If you know, there's certain places that get ripped off all the time. You'll have to look on Amazon for those money packet things they put in them. Oh, like ink or dye. Oh, that would be fun. Anthrax. Throw some anthrax, some little white powder in there. I'm telling you, you get so dang mad, you want to put a little 22 shorts, a little tiny poppet. Ah, right in the face. Yeah, you want them to get away a little ways. You want to have to trail them. Get them a good liver shot. You got to play trailing dogs.

Yeah, let them bed up for the night. I'm not to that level yet, but that's a little harsh. It sends you through the room. It sends you a message just to dye packet and throw it in there. But, no, you guys have been scouting, I guess you do. Yeah. Yeah, Cash has got some stuff. He's hiding the background from us a little bit. Okay, you didn't give him a mic today? No, he's here. Oh, yeah, I'm here. He's here. I don't have anything, Aaron. Don't worry. We just love to tease him a little. Yeah, that's good. He's doing good. Cash is killing it. He's ruining trucks like it's his job. No suspension systems. He didn't even consult you. Oh, wow. A little offensive. I didn't even know. I didn't know he was in the gear room. These young kids don't know. We've been through it. That's why it broke the first day, remember? Good point. It did. It did. It did, too. Good point.

Well, the suspension didn't break. Just the top mount. Of course not, Wyatt. Of course it didn't break. The old mount just broke. Did he buy the truck from Wyatt?

Nobody wants to buy a truck from me. No, everybody buys my truck. There's a few people I wouldn't buy a truck from. Wyatt is one. Jason is another. John's got my truck. Jason sells it. Yeah. John's bought two or three of my trucks. Best trucks you've ever owned. Business partner. I know which trucks to buy. Well, I tell him. Buy this one. Don't buy this one. Don't buy this one. I've actually wished I didn't sell that power wagon. Yeah. It's not for sale. It's been awesome. John's freaking doubled the miles. It's been a good one, huh? Chris bought a truck from you, too, and he put a couple hundred thousand. I sold it to him for like $130. I thought it was wore out. He had like $300. He put another. Remember when he rolled it into the dealership because it didn't have even rotors? It rode metal on metal. It wouldn't stop. He couldn't even get it into the dealer on its own power.

And then he slept in the back, remember? He slept in the back. That was before the canvas cutter days. And then the dealership opened and he made out a credit. And then he traded. Yeah, he traded and they gave him like five grand trade-in. That old Tundra. He did okay on that. Yeah, he did really good. Like I sold it to him for $55 or something. Oh, wow. Yeah. You guys good? Are you still selling optics? Yeah, we're selling. Are people slowing down a little? No, we're. Well, it was slow a little bit, but now the seasons are coming off. Usually, yeah, people are. It's not slow at all. We sold a bunch of Suaro today and other things, just even the 115s. And, oh, the NL-12s are still selling, huh, Josh? Yeah, they are. One power muzzi scopes are still a hot eye out. We had a. Can't keep those in. We had. I don't know. I got a serious question when you're done. We had several. Okay, whatever.

We had several one power loop holds come in, or several dozen of them. And they're gone? Oh, yeah, they're gone. Oh, gee. What are your. What's your. Does it have to do with hunting, or? No, yeah, optics. What's your. Are you guys going to run the two posts on your swirl of the 14s, or have you liked the mounting system for the binos on the 14s? Yeah, so far we've. We've liked their mounting system. Yeah, it's different to get used to. You know, you're used to just sliding it onto a post. So every time I go to do it, I can't remember if I've got to put it in and go up or put it in and go down to get it up or down or whatever to undo it. But it kind of just does itself. It kind of works out. At some point, it's attached. Yeah, exactly. And so we haven't lost a pair off the tripod yet. No. Not yet. Good. Yeah. We are waiting for the Bronson stud. I know. I got to get my hands on a pair.

Josh, can I get yours? There's a pair in your brother's office. I'll send them up to you. There's a pair in your brother's office. He's not going to need them. He's not going to need them. Well, when he left, there was some instructions. Yeah. If there's not a pair sitting in my office, time I get back. Somebody's head's going to roll. Same reason why last night, I didn't pick up his camera until 11.59.

It was like New Year's Eve. I counted down the seconds. Turned it off one second before because I didn't want to be responsible for missing a second. He didn't say whether or not a shield could be broken. They'll still be on his desk, but the package will be open.

Well, we can definitely send him to you. Is he flying in and swinging by, coming into Salt Lake or Vegas? Do you remember? Salt Lake, I think so, yeah. We can send him to you and then just tell him to stop and meet you. Yep. Okay. Done. Yeah. Let's do that. Let's set his pair off. Okay. Okay. All right, Guy. Well, thanks. Get the word out there and spread the word. Okay. We're going to spread the word. Go camera etiquette, please, people. All right. Sounds good, Aaron. Okay. Talk to you later. Bye. Bye. I'm glad that that was recorded that two-thirds majority agreed to send Adam's binoculars out of this office. Okay. I abstain. I didn't vote on it. Jeez. I mean, we had permission from blood. I abstain from voting, but I think we should send him. I think we should, too. He went without on the first shipment, and, of course, several of us did. I wasn't about to.

I'm like, they're a big deal. Josh, you grabbed one on the first shipment. Yep. Kind of don't have choices. We need to be able to endorse them. Exactly. And use them. Exactly. All right, Josh. Well, let's move to your brother's story. Oh, man. Well, so this weekend, we kind of started using some cell cams, and I really like that, actually. It's really handy with a short season. Yeah. But one of the things I have noticed that makes it really worth it is you have to put a solar panel with them, honestly, because it's nice, especially if you're going to set it to wanting to get a transmission every time it takes a picture or, you know, a group of pictures or something like that. It's going to suck some battery. You have to have an external battery source of some kind. And this solar battery is a battery pack in and of itself, as well as the solar, and then there's batteries in the camera.

Yeah, so we have questions. You can just put regular. You don't have to have rechargeable batteries in the camera. They're completely independent of each other. So you just put regular double A's in your camera. And then when you plug the solar panel into it, it notices the solar panel and runs specifically off the solar panel. Then if the solar panel dies, then it'll start to run off the trail camera battery. And the trail camera batteries are never, they're not rechargeable. So it's going to deplete those a little bit if you had cloudy days, rainy days. And you'd be lucky, like even if you did one or two transmissions a day, if you're getting anything like three, four, five, 600 pictures like you, I mean, pretty standard, you're going to maybe last a week on a set of batteries. Just the regular standard alkaline.

The, you know, lithium ones, maybe a week and a half, maybe two weeks out of them. But it'll eat them fast. So a solar panel is good. So the solar panel just basically charges itself. It just tends the battery pack that's underneath it. So I would suggest doing that. Anyway, last weekend I was with my brother and we noticed that his solar panel, it just kind of turned black. Because on the app, it'll monitor. You can see how much battery is in your solar panel and all that stuff. It just kind of turned black and quit working. So yesterday he went up to go pick it up and he got up to it and someone had unplugged the solar panel, you know, snuck up from behind it or whatever, unplugged it from his camera. But then not just did that, but they took a rock or something sharp and smashed the cord of the solar panel. So first they undid it. Yeah. But now the solar panel is broken. So it's that.

So then he gets his camera, goes and collects it all up and walks over. He had just a trophy rock sitting out there and walks over there to get it. And it's covered in human excrement and toilet paper. Oh my gosh. Human feces and toilet paper. What is wrong with people? That's like. I don't know. I didn't know people. No, I won't go there. Never mind. But yeah. You didn't know what? People what? People from Beaver County ran cameras on the fish lake. But apparently they do. Oh my God. I knew. It'd been 50 minutes. I knew we couldn't make it a second longer. I just don't. I don't see how people have the gut to do stuff like that. That's crazy. Where anytime you're in the woods, you could be being filmed. I could see Josh doing it to his buddy. No, I'm not that foul. I mean, that's. That's over the line. Way over. That's a foul thing. I'm sorry. I just. No. No. I mean. Yeah, that's foul.

And. So did they take. They didn't take anything. Didn't do anything to the camera. They just broke it. They covered it up. And took a crap. They just covered the lens. Yeah. There's obviously no pictures. No proof. No. Was there another place. Was there other cameras there? No. No. It was just one. Just his. Yeah. Yep. Just his camera. It was just in a. It kind of. Might be somebody that knows him. In a meadow. Yeah. I don't. I wouldn't think so. Like I. Not over there. I would doubt it. Yeah. Not over there. Good point. It's just a completely random meadow. And anyway. It's a weird thing. And the funny thing about it was. Was they were hurting absolutely zero. Because the camera never really got anything. Hardly any pictures of anything on it. It was. Yeah. It was just. It would be interesting. It was a learning spot. Like Wyatt. Okay. You missed your calling in life.

You were going to go out into investigating. Colonel Justice. DNA analysis. Tell me. It would be very fun to take DNA from the feces. The collection may not be as fun. But. And nail the freaking guy. Yeah. Could you imagine. Well I've seen. I've seen coyotes or foxes do that. I don't know if you've seen it before. I've seen them go up there and it's like. I've had a fox look. Come by and do it. Quite often. And you're like. Okay. Put the crap. This guy needs a bullet. Yeah. But when there's toilet paper on top. Yeah. Nice sleek foot. Little. Yeah. Yeah. Sleeves or a sock. Oh. Oh man. Jeez. And who can just do that on command? I can't. When you first mentioned it. I said. I cannot crap on command. Hey. I want you to go in there and take a dude. It's not happening. He held it for four hours. Yeah. Walked in. Jeez. And it's a hike to get up there. I mean.

You don't think it would have made it. Gosh. No. You guys were talking about booby trapping cameras a little bit earlier. Have you seen that guy that does like. He catches the porch pirates. Builds like the fart spray packages. Oh yeah. Glitter bombs. All that kind of stuff. I wonder if he could build us up a trail camera. Just do it. I'd pay him. Yeah. This would be awesome. Several thousand dollars. That would be funny. Then we get another camera catching that to happen. Oh yeah. Jeez. Really? What? Let's do this. YouTube hits. Send him a DM. Slide into it. We got a problem out here in Utah. Logie Bear. Slide into his DMs. Epic account will be hitting him up shortly. That's awesome. Hopefully he's a hunter. We hope. Projects. We've got projects. All right. So let's see. John, how'd scouting go for you? Good. I'm tired. Get to rest. Yeah. Pretty exciting. Yeah.

That's what like the seasons are different just because of that. Like it puts it so yeah. I mean collecting on a specific day puts you out all night. Yeah. You got to get some work done early. Yeah. It feels like. Yeah. Well if you get it going early and you get started on a rotation. I think Josh you were some of the earliest. Well. Which gets you going. Like I feel like you feel mentally you're on top of the game. It's kind of like when I used to talk about being the first at the top of the hill. There's just this mental thing in it and if you're second even though it's dark and nobody can see anything there's just something about not being there first. You know what I mean. And once you get on your A game and you're scouting early and it just then all that synergy there's a there's an energy building as as the months roll by or a month and a half

or whatever weeks days whatever roll by. Josh your scouting went good. Yeah. I learned some stuff even just from some cameras putting them out early that you know I'm like I'm never gonna have to put a camera here again. It was it was good stuff though. You had movement from animals as they're like moving actually to summer range. You know you get them up in June and you get some pitch. I was pretty excited about a couple of the cameras like oh this is gonna be my best camera and it ended up being my worst camera because everything moved through that area. I'm telling you remember when I mentioned it my worst. Cash I think you said this is a janky setup and I said the jankiest setup to produce the biggest bucks. Yep. I mean I'll be some janky little camera you know is gonna get knocked off and sure enough it doesn't and then you've got something big standing there and you're like come on.

But it takes time you kind of have to get going on it early because it takes time to get stuff out. Yeah. And then it takes time to clean stuff up and you run into a problem where you blow a belt on a side by side or you're completely out. Oh yeah. You know. You had to call the office help to come help you. Yeah. So you run into problems and then you. Lachelle. You coming and pulling you. Pulling you around the unit. Getting you off the. It's the last thing I needed.

Running into those people again.

So what's your scouting after all the scouting? What's your opinion on the antler growth and quality out in the hills? Oh I feel like elk look really good. Yeah. I think they look really good. Deer. There's just a lot of young deer. Young deer. Just a lot. I mean it's awesome. There's a lot of bucks. So that's great. If you want to just go out and see bucks. Two by threes. Three by fours. Whatever. I mean I literally saw 30 bucks in a meadow the other night. It was the last night I was grabbing a couple cameras. Yeah. And it was pretty awesome. And when I started glassing I was like you've got to be kidding me. I figured it was just a bunch of does and fawns. A little break in the droughts helping. Yeah. You look at it and it's like holy cow those are all bucks. But they were all three year olds and less. You know I don't. There wasn't a single four point out of 30 of them. Wow.

So it's good to see but it's also a little bit frustrating to think gosh you know. There's not anything more mature than that. I'm sure there's a few out there but it's very very very very slim. Devin. What's your feeling about the quality out there after stage one of the scouting process? Lots of young deer. Yeah. I learned some stuff that'll carry over. That's what I like. I feel like I found new stuff that I'm excited about. Yeah. But. I feel like the same. I feel like I'm learning stuff for the next five years. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I like have done that for the last five years.

Really getting tired of it. The 10 year plan. I'm really getting tired of it. My problem is I've been unit hopping. I know it. And then and the guys that are getting it done are consistent. They'll take a unit and they'll take the good and the bad. The bad. You know a good year. Bad bad bad good year. And they're there for all the all of it. Whereas I'm like well I'll try this one. Oh no. I'll go hop to this one. Now I'll go hop to this one. And I like learning a bunch of new stuff. But really I think you're best off to stick with the unit. Stick it through thick and thin. You know if you can. If it's a tag you can get on a regular basis. Wyatt what's your opinion? I think it's going to be an overall good year. Yeah. Not stellar. I don't know. It's hard to say right now too. You know the elk guys are fortunate that. They're finished. Elk are finished. Mule deer guys. I mean shoot.

Bucks can still blow up right now. Yeah. I mean it's hard to. Nevada bucks. There's bucks that are still going to put on 40 inches.

One thing I ran into last year. I ran all those cameras. And then went back first of August. And bucks were completely different. They changed. Between August 1 and the hunt. Yeah. And the hunt. Yeah. I remember you know some of the archery bucks that I killed like in August 20-ish. Mid 20s. August mid 20s. Still were bali at the top. You know what I mean. So there's. And that was in Utah. That wasn't even like Nevada. It feels like Nevada. There's a lot of bucks that are either they're getting close to done. A chunk of them. But a good percentage put on a lot more inches still. So anyway it'll be interesting. But it seems somewhat average to me. It feels like.

There's a lot of really nice bulls from everything I've seen. And a few. A few of the units that we're looking at. And then. You know. So I think elk is going to be good. Doesn't feel like overall good. Like you were saying. I don't know if it's like. Exceptional. Like the very very top end bulls. But. But maybe. Well it's weird though. And I think a lot of it comes back to. You think about. Like nutrition and years. And growth. And some of that. And you'll see it. And I feel like this is one of those years. That there's a. There's a bunch of bulls that have been living. That were born. You're talking. 20, 16, 17, 15. When we would. When we had those good wet years. A lot of these bulls were born. During those times. And so now. Those bulls have all matured. They're living in on limited entry units. Obviously. There's not a lot of tags. And so now.

Those bulls have actually all hit a mature age. And so they're. Overall. The size of bulls. That are in this certain category. It's pretty mind blowing. Compared to even last year. Yeah. Yep. I was talking the other day. Last year. Like. On a specific unit. I saw. Tons and tons and tons. Of just 350 bulls. Yeah. You know. Give or take 5, 10 inches. Now it seems like. There's just a ton of 360 type bulls. Just like. Another step up. Wow. This year. It just seems like. It's just bumped up a little bit. Yeah. Even better. A little bit better. So it seems a little bit better. As far as the quality of the quantity. Yeah. You know. Yeah. The average is. Yeah. The average is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe not the very top end. But the average. Yeah. Yep. You know. That's kind of what you're saying. It's funny. Yep. And it's funny too. Like how Devin's talking. We were talking about.

Hunting a certain unit or something. We have. From when. Running some trail cameras. When John had his tag. A few years ago. And. Then you start recognizing. Certain bulls. Or things you're like. Holy cow. You know. There's a bull. And you know. Okay. Here. That's where he was in the summer. And then John saw him during his hunt. And it helps you put. You know. Multiple things together. To where you can actually be successful. In future years. Like Devin said. Literally like a 10 year plan. You don't really. Something. A picture of a buck. Or a bull. Or something you got. In 2021. Could potentially be helping you. In 2024. You just. You just don't know. But you've got to. Hunt that unit multiple. Yeah. Or friends. Or whatever. Yes. Yes. Like this is my unit. Use information. Or these are my units. You know. If you're looking at elk and deer. Or whatever. And you keep tabs on those.

Knowing friends and family. Yeah. You have points to draw. Or whatever. Yeah. And I don't know. I can't remember what she says. Sometimes. She claims she tells me things. But I can't remember what my wife says. Like. That I didn't take out the trash. Or something like that. But I definitely. For some reason. I can remember. That bull had a little. How about a two and a half inch devil. Three years ago. Two and a half inch devil time. Yeah. I can't remember. Man. I can't believe he lost his left devil time this year. Yeah. Because those things are important to me. I mean. Kids basketball games. I don't have that problem. Janice wears. I'm the same way. And I can remember specific bucks. And I actually. There's a lot of things I've forgotten. You know what I mean? I'm like. Kind of disappointed in myself. Kids are like. Hey. What about this buck? And I'm like. Huh? Oh. Yeah.

I wonder if he is alive. All right. So I want. We should dive into the next subject. That's related to all this. Next podcast. We're already in this sucker an hour. Geez. Be hunting etiquette. You know. Things like that. What do you guys think? Yeah. I think it's good. I think just to wrap this one up. It's like. Just leave people's stuff alone. Yeah. And the other thing is too. It's just the goal. The goal. The other thing is too. We. It's funny. Cash and I have had some cameras and stuff on similar places and close to and whatever. Really? And you're getting. And accidentally. Like completely accidentally. You guys have? I didn't know this. You guys have. Neither did we. But. What? How did you find out? It's just like. Just talking. You know. And. But it's fun. You're running cameras? Here. So. A couple. A couple. Very. Never know. Geez. But it's just like you talk to somebody.

You see something. The thing is. You're not the only dude that's got a picture of that bull. Right. You know. He's not your bull. He's not your buck. Even though you want him to be. What if I named him? Even though you want him to kill him. Whatever. Yeah. What if I watched him? Too bad. Yeah. Dude. Yeah. Sorry. He's not yours. Somebody else has a picture of him. Somebody else has seen him. In this day and age. People are going so hard. Yeah. That. If you mess with somebody's camera. You're probably not putting them out very much. Because they've already got him on another camera. Or they've already seen him. Or they've already glassed him up. Like people are going so hard these days. That. Just leave people's stuff alone. Yeah. Or they've got something better elsewhere. Like. You're not hindering people that bad. Yeah. Especially with the season. It's just inconvenient.

Because it's loss of property. Loss of time. Loss of all that kind of stuff. A lot of times. For as far as the scouting goes. You're not. I don't know that it's hurting. Or it's not. You're not helping yourself. As bad as it's hurting them. By any means. I just don't feel like it. And I don't like getting my picture on other people's trail cameras. You know. I'm walking along this year. A couple. All of a sudden. Next thing you know. I'm like. Ugh. Stepping over a trophy rock. And I look over. And there's a camera on the tree. And I'm like. And you can legally do that. Yeah. Now there's going to be squatchers up there. Wondering what's going on. Yeah. Like. There's a Yeti up here.

That guy. What is that thing? We're the heavy. But. You know. I just wave at the camera. And keep on going. And now I know. Hey. There's a camera over there. But. I did the same thing the other day. I had one surprise me. I walked right by. I hate you. And whoever that guy was. He. He. He had to have seen mine. It was in the best place. But. I turned around. I'm like. Oh. Hello. You know. Like. Snuck up on me. But. I hate. I hate surprises. I was walking. I was walking into some cameras the other day. I was walking on a trail. All of a sudden. I kind of look over on a tree. And there's this black thing hanging. I was like. What is that? So I walk over. And it's a solar panel. But it's like. Wound through the tree. And just hanging there. Jail. Now you're J. I know. And there's a cell cam. There's a cell cam there. And. I was like. Oh. Geez. I don't want to walk through this. Pretty soon.

Josh. I walked clear. I walked clear up in the hill. Clear out and around. Nothing never. Probably never got me. But. I was like. How many have I walked? It was like three miles. It's like. How many have I walked by already today? Like. And not even known it. Well. The way I. In my mind. I'm kind of superstitious. Maybe too much baseball. But. If you're that guy. The mountain will get you back. You're going to have bad luck. Yeah. You're going to blow tires in the desert. I don't know. Yep. Karma. Although it feels like karma doesn't catch a lot. I know. That's the thing. But in my mind. What are you looking at me for Wyatt? Blowing tires in the desert. Well we all blow tires. I hate that. I'm just saying like. I did blow a tire. But it wasn't karma. And it wasn't quite the desert. It was a parking lot. I was a parking lot. And so then we had to take Wyatt's truck. And I hate that.

Couldn't even take it to lunch the other day. You guys. Seriously. Let's just vote. I mean. If we're taking a truck to the desert. And your life depends on its. Well being. Well being. Are you going with me? Those lugs you got in your wheels. Are you going with me? Or are you going with Wyatt? Just go look. Just go look at his lug nuts. I mean. You'd be surprised. Daryl's made it home from a lot of places. That's true. One and a half twists. Is all those lug nuts are on. Those threads are not big. We're here aren't we? I have one just like it. Lasted me 13 years. So. I don't know. So you'd go with him? I'd go with DW. Yeah. It's a comfortable ride. I would have to choose. It was nice to be driven. Did you refer to him as driver? You should have. That's a chauffeur. I was like. Man. This is nice. I think I dozed once or twice. Yeah. Hang a left. That's what I did.

I just kept going like this. Pointing. Well we were yakking. And I was like.

Like Wyatt does.

Yeah. We had a good time. Tires had 80 pounds in them. Yeah. A lot of truck time. Windshield time I guess. Yeah. It was good. Well it was good. It made me trust his equipment a little more. All right. That's enough I guess. It feels like an average year for deer. Or less than average I would say. Does it feel like that for you guys? Well I think just because of the age. Yeah. I think that's it. I think a lot of that's it. Because you think even on limited entry units. There's age classes of deer missing. Yeah. They're really in Nevada. Anywhere in the West. There's age classes. There's absolutely years of deer missing. Yep. That's what it feels like. But anyway. We're excited. We're excited. If you can't tell. We're excited for the seasons to start. We got a lot of plans. Multiple states. We'll be hitting nearly every western state. And anyway. I love seeing like Logan and Cash.

And your age group. Like my kids. I mean they ran a lot of cameras by themselves. And I got Justin started. You know. Just like hey. We got to get going. But then man. You couldn't stop him. And it's just awesome to see that. Logan I know you got probably bucks that you're going to show me their outline and silhouette of. At some point. No. Not even that. You got.

I love to tease Cash a little bit. But I don't blame you. I wouldn't tell me anything either.

I'm going to do that from now on. Look at this one. I already tested it. Yeah. He was showing me a minute ago. I am not going to ever chase that slick shank. Show me the background.

I mean if it doesn't have three or four eye guards. Don't even cut it out. They got cut off somehow. You have nothing to worry about. Yeah. It cut those off. Did it?

I mean that thing doesn't even have a frame. It's nothing but a shank. That thing doesn't even have a mom. Another doesn't even want to have anything to do with it anymore. That's worse than a cactus buck. All right. So anyway. We don't have any advertising to talk about today. We get to choose what Logan said on this podcast. I want it clean. Basically if you need optics just come to Epic. We got the best prices out there. It doesn't matter what it is. Even try us on different brands. Maybe less popular brands. Whatever. If there's something you're looking for then at least give us a holler. It might be worth your call. And we'd love to visit with you. Monday through Thursday we're scouting and hunting on Fridays. Fridays and even scouting and hunting on some of the midweek days. But somebody will be here and we want to visit with you. So anyway.

Appreciate your support out there of Epic Outdoors. And wish you all the best. If you need any help outfitter wise or maybe even just some starting points. Give us a holler. We definitely share actually more than we probably should. But want people to be successful. Especially members of Epic Outdoors. You guys got any parting thoughts? Not that this is an advertisement but now having spent significant time behind our tripod. The big Epic Ultra. It's no joke. It is no joke. Anyway. Best value out there. $466 for the member price. Smooth as butter. And that includes the head, tripod, and a plate. So anyway. We've got tons of them in stock. Good. I like it. We all have one. If not two actually. We have the light and the heavy. And the heavy is still under four pounds total. So 3.8 pounds. And hey. It's good for a six foot four guy. Right? Yeah. It works. Yeah. It works. Yeah.

The new shipment maybe just. We just did ever so slightly on each leg. And it's awesome. Had a guy that was 6'3 complaining. So we had to go up a little. Yeah. You're 6'4 aren't you Josh? Yeah. How does it work for you? Great. Good. Alright. Alright. Alright. Good luck everybody. Let's face it. If your goal is to kill big stuff. You need to draw quality tags. Quality tags are typically hard to draw. To increase your odds of drawing good tags. You need to apply in multiple states. That's where an Epic Outdoors membership can help. For only 150 bucks a year. You get access to our consultants. Our online tools. And to Epic approved outfitters. And members only optics discounts. With unlimited access to our team of consultants. And access to the Epic Outdoors magazines. Applying in multiple states is easy. No more worrying if you're applying for the best areas.

No more applying for a unit where there has been a die off. And no more missing opportunities where you could be in the field. And not sitting at home. Go online at epicoutdoors.com. Or call us today at 435-263-0777. To find out how you can become a member today. KUYU is the most uncompromising camo on the market. Their new Guide Pro Series is the toughest. Most comfortable camo you will ever own. Check out their new additions. And shop men and women's camo now at KUYU.com. That's K-U-I-U dot com. Kennetrek makes boots for every hunt. Whether you're hunting sheep in the high, rocky altitudes. Or low crawling sagebrush for those desert muleys. Kennetrek has you covered. Check out their world class Mountain Extreme line. And their brand new Bridger High boots at Kennetrek. K-E-N-E-T-R-E-K dot com. Applying for tags in multiple western states can be time consuming.

At Epic Outdoors, we have you covered. Whether you want to expand your hunting portfolio. Or simply ensure that you never miss a deadline again. The Epic Outdoors License Application Service is exactly what you need. It's like having the best CPAs in the finance world do your taxes. Let the best hunting application gurus in the world do your tag applications. You'll never miss a deadline. You'll never apply for the wrong unit. And you'll never apply for a unit that's having a die off. Your time is valuable. We do the work. You draw the tags. Epic Outdoors License App. 435-263-0777. With Fierce Rifles, every detail matters.

They are hands down one of the best rifle manufacturers in the industry. And they never seem to stop making new innovations. If you want to get serious about your long range shooting, call us to talk over your options for your next Fierce Rifle. Epic Outdoors is an official Fierce Rifle dealer. Our consultants know their whole line of rifles inside and out. 435-263-0777. Epic Optics is an authorized dealer for Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, Vortex, Leopold, Kawa, Sig Sauer, and more. Here at Epic Optics, we are committed to getting you the best deal for the glass that fits your needs. Go to EpicOptics.com or call in to speak with our consultants who will fit you with the perfect optics for your next hunt. 435-263-0777. If you're looking for your next hunting property, look no further than St. James. St. James are the experts at all sporting properties across the West.

Their team of agents will spend the time getting to know you personally and find out which property out of the hundreds they have listed is perfect for you. If you've always wanted a property where you could hunt and fish, go online to StJamesSportingProperties.com or give them a call at 855-711-7577 to learn more. Red Rock Precision Rifles are at the pinnacle of custom rifles. They make no compromises in terms of quality, accuracy, and reliability. They will build the perfect rifle for you in both feel and performance. Epic Outdoors is an official Red Rock dealer. Call us to talk over your options for your next Red Rock rifle or go to RedRockPrecision.com to learn more. Vortex makes optics for every occasion. Whether you're a long-range shooter dialing in that perfect shot or an archery hunter in need of an easy-to-carry optic without sacrificing quality, Vortex has you covered.

Head over to EpicOptics.com or call us to learn more about your Vortex options today at 435-263-0777. From top-of-the-line hunting blinds to game calls that can't be beat, GSM Outdoors has you covered for whatever outdoor equipment you need. For all of their products, head over to GSMOutdoors.com to learn more. Thompson Long Range has perfected the art of simple, affordable long-range shooting. If you don't want to calculate ballistics or adjust your turrets before making a shot, a Thompson Long Range system is for you. Simply range, place the hash mark for that distance on the animal, and pull the trigger. They make top-quality rifles and host a shooting school that will leave you confident in making shots out to 1,000 yards. Visit ThompsonLongRange.com to learn more about purchasing your next rifle or booking your next shooting school experience.

The crew at Epic Outdoors trust StealthCam trail cameras to get us through the scouting season. StealthCam is the leading trail camera brand because they never stop innovating. Check out their brand new line of trail cameras, including the Revolver 360-degree camera, at StealthCam.com. Epic Outdoors is an official StealthCam dealer. Call us to order yours today at 435-263-0777. Phonescope changed the game with their digiscoping innovations and have remained the top phone-to-optic adapter on the market. Check out the incredible new Carbon Pro Phonescope now at Phonescope.com. P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P-E dot com. Outdoor Edge is the knife that we all use here at Epic Outdoors. Whether it's a replaceable blade or fixed blade, you will not be disappointed with your Outdoor Edge knife. Head over to OutdoorEdge.com and check out their brand new Razer VX knife today.

Epic Outdoors is proud to be an official Zeiss dealer and optics partner. When it comes to top-tier quality, Zeiss has been a leader in the industry for generations. If you're in the market for new optics, give us a call for unbelievable deals on Zeiss products. Giving you the highest quality and durability out there without breaking the bank is what makes Zeiss so good. Check out our website, EpicOptics.com or call us at 435-263-0777 to find out which Zeiss optic is perfect for you. Epic Outdoors is now an official CVA muzzleloader dealer. If you're in the market for a new muzzleloader, our staff can go over the different options that you should consider. CVA muzzleloaders are the go-to muzzleloader for Epic Outdoors and crew. We've definitely got our favorite setups for Western Big Game hunting in stock. Call us today at 435-263-0777 to find out which CVA is perfect for your next hunt.