EP 324: The Hunting Ethics Podcast and Q&A Part 1

You're listening to the Epic Outdoors podcast. Check us out at epicoutdoors.com.

Start it. Let's roll this in. Let's get going. I love Wyatt's old man movements. Start it for us, Wyatt. Give us a good, Wyatt, everybody. Hey, everybody. Hey, I like it. That was a good start. Hey, I like that. Josh, you try it. Hey, everybody. All right, John. Hey, everybody. All right, Cash. Hey, everyone. How's it going? Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast. Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast. Welcome to the Epic Outdoors podcast. Powered by Epic Outdoors. Powered by WFB.

JFP. JF and C. Okay, I'm done. Let's get started. Hey, everybody. Jason Carter. Adam Bronson. Well, actually, Adam is just finishing out his hunt up there in Canada. So, kill the sheep, kill the caribou. It turns out Wayne's killed a wolverine. So, kind of awesome. But we do have, what did they say? WFB? Wyatt. Yeah, I'm here. We got Wyatt here. We got Josh, John, Cash, Devin, Logan. Of course we have Logan. Always. Please. Couldn't do it without Logan. How are you? I'm doing good. Should we dive into your personal life? We always do that. Yes. The start of every podcast. That's right. Somebody. Do you have a life? I try to have a life. I'm working a lot. Oh, all right. I like it. A lot? Working life. We're in summer months. Where were you working this morning? I was going to say. Are we talking for a Jim Z or a millennial?

I was going to say, you haven't been in this office physically before 10 a.m. for the last six months. Wow. Okay, wow. I like this. I don't have to say it, and yet it's set. I thought you had a second job or something. No. Oh, my God. I thought his motto is last in, first out.

Jeez, Logan. It's all right. I'm getting videos of Big Box, and they're doing nothing here. Whoa. Whoa. Okay. You're going to strike them. Let's see them. I haven't cut them out of the picture yet. What do you consider big, Logan Bear? See if the optics department gives you a deal on the spotting scope. You're charging me fees that don't even exist. I don't want to come to you anymore. You handle a lot. I had to go get my own box and check myself out, and you charge me a handling fee. We had to hold a prayer session just to decide if you wanted that thing. It's like all the taxes and fees associated with motels that you don't even need. City tax, use fee. Bed bunk fee. Parking fee. Resort fee is more. Resort fees. Than the reservation. That's what Logie's complaining about. He never knew the optics department charged all kinds of fees, and we actually don't. We never charge those fees.

I need an itemized receipt. That's right. Except for when you come in. I know. And there's a few additional fees. There's a couple of phrases I want banned in this office from now on. Okay. Let's go down that. They make new ones every day. They print more money every day. And you're going to need it eventually. I hate those phrases. Make me bust out my wallet. Money is a renewable resource, Logie Bear. Buy this right now. That's exactly right. You're making more right now as we speak. Little by little. I walk over to get a window mount, and I walk away with stuff that I didn't even know I needed. But by this weekend, you're going to be happy, and you're going to appreciate what we offered to you, and you're going to be in a better spot. And we want to see the video to prove that we made a difference.

Once I figure out how to cut the deer out of the video so it's just a deer with a white background, then I'll show you. If I know how, you should definitely know how.

Cash. Cash is owning it. Cash did that? He's owning it? He's a pro. And we did have a guy call in about your three-legged deer. Yeah. I had a guy message me. Let's see, this three-legged deer. I said, I don't know what deer you're talking about. And then I rang in my ears, and I was like, oh, that. That's right. And Wyatt called him out and says, does this deer only have three legs? Yeah. Where is the rest of the deer? Pretty awesome. Okay. All right. Well, let's get going. All right, Logan. We didn't talk about your personal life. Do you have one? No. Well, yes. Because if she listens to this and you say you're single, you've got problems. So go ahead and probably call it a cough it up. I'm single. I've got nobody to be afraid of like the rest of you guys on this podcast. I can say whatever I want. Wow. Our women are not afraid. They're empowered, and they own the place. That's right.

He's saying we're afraid.

Exactly. John, what are you afraid of? There's plenty to be afraid of.

Josh, are you afraid? No. Is Sugar Mama taking away your credit card? Yeah. I've never had one. Devin, are you in a good spot? I'm happy. Your personal life? Hey, speaking of you, it's your anniversary today. It is. Today is. Been married four years today. Wow. I've been married 28. You've got 24 to go. I'm six and a half, five and a half. Jeez. Holy cow. When did you get married? 17? When I was like 12.

Congratulations. Oh, wait. Never mind. Did you get to choose? Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Okay. That's not true. No. Your wife's awesome. No. She was definitely older than 18. By a few months. By a few months.

Wyatt, how are things going with Case? Good. You're good? Yeah. He's happy? He seems happy, yeah. Jeez, you guys were saying, Devin, maybe you have to speak to this. I don't know, but you're saying that he was like the best baby ever. I had a blast with him. He's pretty chill. I spent some time over at Wyatt's the other night. We were playing basketball. We had a fishing pole. We had a great time. Really? Yeah. Took him around to Wyatt's mounts, let him touch every one of them. Something I don't allow. Yeah, exactly. So when Uncle Devin comes over. That's the best part. Uncle Devin comes over. The kid gets to touch all the mounts. Yeah, he gets to hang it off these brow ties. He's trying to do pull-ups on everything. Pull-ups. Gets to walk on all the carpet that was perfectly. Not walking. Has the perfect. Not walking yet. Mosaic design by the vacuum. Yeah. You know, all the good stuff.

He's a cute little guy. It was fun. Awesome.

Well, good. You're lucky. You know, your second one might not be so good. Probably get a colicky one. I think we might be done at one.

Oh, come on. I'm just getting caught up in my sleep, I think, and I didn't even do that much of sleepless nights. All right, Wyatt. My only thing about if you're done at one is every only child that I know is bitter at their parents for being an only child. Just saying. I've told him that 17 times. Everyone. And their turd heads. Well, if he wants to move out when he's 18, that's just fine with me, too. What about 16? 16? I mean, if you're bitter, that's fine. Go. 15. And if he doesn't want to hear from you ever again, fine. Less money for you in the future. Less seeds on the floor.

All right. Well, okay. Wow. Jeez. Do you love the kid? Yeah. I will say this.

Case loves Wyatt. Yeah. Like, they're buddies. You can tell. Yeah. When I showed up, he looked at Wyatt like, what do we got going on here, dude? That's how most people look when Devin shows up. What is going on here? What is this guy? Are we okay? Who is this guy? You can tell they hang out a lot. Oh, good stuff. All right. So, let's just get this started. Devin, I think we ought to start with you. Me? So, what we were going to do is talk about ethics a little bit. We just got done with the last podcast talking about drug cameras and theft and 14 other challenges out there in the hills. But then we were going to continue with ethics like, if you roll up on a knob and somebody else is glassing, do you stay on the knob? Yeah, you probably stay on the knob. But do you sit within their personal space like the guy did down here at the bowling alley with you guys at lunch?

You know what I mean? Where they're breathing on you? Josh, you almost went home and showered. I had to wash my neck. He was so close. But you're right. And I think it depends on a lot of things. But, like, if you hike in somewhere in the dark and all of a sudden you look over and there's a dude, like, that sucks. It kind of is what it is. You're not going to walk back and lose a whole morning. Your morning's blown. But don't sit, like, 10 feet from somebody. Just have enough respect. You just sit off to the side. Whatever. If you drive to a place, somebody's parked there and there's one spot, kind of move on. Okay. You know, I think. Whoever gets there first or whatever. If you know, whatever. It depends on, you know. If I can hear you whispering. Part of that is you're parked there. And how do I know that you went to that particular knob? How do I know? How do I know you're not?

Should have woke up earlier. Right. But, I mean, I'm just saying, like, do you just take the chance that that knob's not being sat on? Because you don't know what that guy's exactly planned. Oh, I'm saying like a guy's glassing next to his truck. Oh, I see. Like, you're on one knob or whatever. I see. You know what I mean? Then move on. You got half hour to get to the next spot. Yeah, a little ways down the way or whatever. Okay. But I had a guy stand by me, literally.

I could have spat on him. I could have spit on him. Wow. And I asked him. I said, are you really going to do this? He's in the dark. You asked him. Opening day muzzleloader last year with my brother. I said, are you really doing this? He's like, what? I'm like, you're really going to stand this close to me? And the thing is, he could have went 100 yards here or this. You're not missing anything. I said, so, like, when the sun comes up, you're going to, like, this is going to be a race to shoot? Or, like, what is your plan? And he's like, it's public land. I can stand wherever I want. And I'm like, you're right. You can. You're right. It was the most awkward morning of glassing I've ever had. Part of that. Then the sun comes up. Okay. I was kind of pissed. His buddy was, like, embarrassed. Yeah. Didn't say a word. Yeah. And I'd, like, go off the knob here and glass and, like, just.

We couldn't even talk. Yeah. Like, I'd see a buck or whatever. And then. You're texting. Sun comes up. Yeah. I think he was a little embarrassed. He was being. Being that guy. Being that guy. And so, if rolls reversed, you would have stayed on the knob. Just roll down to the side. Let me have a little privacy. If I'm talking. I would have drove to the end of the road and up on another knob. Yeah. You can pretty well see 90% of the stuff anyways. And if I'm talking to my. And then that way you can talk to your buddies on the radio or phone or whatever. In private or whatever. Right. But it's just awkward. It makes it weird. I would say 100 yards. Go 100 yards. I'm literally telling you guys. We're talking like five, six feet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was weird. Yeah. That's my question when they do that is.

Have you ever had or even heard of somebody sitting that close to somebody and then actually like racing to shoot? Oh, yeah. Because I couldn't even imagine.

Do you have a story for us? None that you want to share. No. It happens. It happens sometimes. You know you're hunting the same deer or whatever. And you may not be next to each other. But all of a sudden somebody realizes somebody's somewhere. Yeah. And it changes things, which is unfortunate. But. It's hard. I don't like making deals. People are like, well, let's make a deal. You know. I'm not a guy that makes deals because your plans change as the hunt progresses. You know what I mean? Maybe even change bucks. Maybe the buck changed his pattern or whatever. For example, putting a blind. You got a blind on there. You're the first blind. Another blind moves in. Obviously, opening day of archery deer is coming up. Or maybe.

The guy's just putting a blind there. Sometimes people put a blind there just to have a blind there, right? Put a blind buddy inside. Yeah, a blind buddy. The whole blind buddy thing comes up. Maybe you're not planning on sitting it. So then the guy one is thinking, well, there's guy two is going to be here. No, he might not. He might actually not even have an archery tag. It might be for the muzzle season. It might be just to have an option when, you know, I don't want to be putting up a blind tomorrow midday. But I'm going to actually glass for a minute. Are you talking about like a pop-up blind? Not a hand-built wood? Yeah, pop-up blind. Just a double bull, whatever. Some kind of bar. Here's a question for you. If you put up a pop-up blind, do you think it's okay for somebody else to sit in it? No, I don't think it's okay. No, neither do I. That's your personal property.

Lachelle was telling us the other day. Let's say you park your truck and you leave the doors unlocked and you go out hunting. You come back and somebody's sitting in your truck. Is that a problem? To me, that's a problem. Oh, yeah. Same thing with your blind. Yeah. That's a problem. I've heard of that happening. All right. So finish your story. Just Lachelle told us the other day that, what was it, two years ago or a year ago? Yeah, a couple years ago. Her husband dropped her off and he went to another spot and she's, you know, by herself. All she had was like a pin on all that. Yeah, she had a pin. So she goes up to the blind and could hear people whispering inside. But then she questioned herself, is this really our blind? Like, is this my blind? Oh, maybe. I don't know. Because it's shocking off. Yeah. And she's never really... But it was her blind.

She just walked away and sat on the road and waited for him to come back, she said. But it was her blind. It was their blind. Somebody else sat in her blind. I mean, come on. Who does that? But there's people that have checked blinds for other people in them and then put their clients in them. You know what I mean? Sure. Like, that's happened. How would you feel if your blind was being sat in by somebody else? And you were giving it a break. You were giving it a break. Personally, I would think, I think I need to take that home and I'd just pack it up. I just came here to pick up my blind. I'd pop in the sides, collapse it, and I'd take it home. Pull it off the top of you. You got two little janky chairs in there. Hey, I want my chair back. I don't know. I think that's pretty messed up to sit in somebody else's blind. Yeah. Same with girls with their tree stand.

Now, Wyatt, you're really quiet. Have you been that guy that has sat in somebody else's blind? No, no. I've never been that guy, but I was just thinking about kind of a similar topic. And out there in Nevada, you get little bottles with notes in them. That's a Nevada thing. Reserving spots for a month long. So we had that happen. A buddy of ours has a blind. Another guy puts in a blind after his, okay, which is fine. I mean, we get to put in a blind like the minute the draw results come out just so you can say you were first. Okay, we're talking pop-up blinds, not. Pop-up blinds. Okay. Pop-up blinds. Okay. And so then they put a note in a bottle on your blind or at the water hole. At the water hole. At the guzzler. And that's for people to read, right? It says, my plan is to be here opening day. If you would like to not compete, you should contact me and then we can work out a deal.

Right? And maybe they're hunting any buck, the first buck that comes in. Maybe they're hunting a specific buck that comes in or whatever. So move forward with that thought process. You read the note in the bottle. Are you calling them to make a deal?

Probably not. Okay. Are you burning the bottle? No. Crumple all around the note. I'm probably just going to leave it as is, but it just depends on the scenario too. You don't even know if you're going to sit opening day on the blind. You might, the day before might dictate what you're doing that day. Yeah, exactly. I've seen the notes say, I'm going to be sitting here from September 1 to October 10th. And you're like, you are not sitting there the whole time. In fact, most likely they don't sit there at all. Yeah. They just have that note. Put them on multiple water holes though too. I've seen the same note, same bottle situation. I've seen the same situation on multiple water holes. So remember that big poster on Monroe that year? Mm-hmm. In the middle of the road? Yep. What did it say? It was a long thing. A woman on water ahead. Go ahead and ruin her hunt. It's the hunt of a lifetime.

It took me 22 years to draw. I'm sitting on water up here. But it was a log across the road. Yeah. With a sun. Not like a fresh arrow in the road. It's like that is her arrow. I was. A 14-year-old girl sitting on the water up ahead. It may or may not. Maybe an old fat guy. You know what I mean? I hope it was. Okay. I don't know. Okay. I saw that once on the Ponce Gap back in the baiting days. I was driving down a dirt road. And it was a dead-end dirt road. But it was a thick road to the point you'd kind of have to drive down to the end of it to turn around. And just before I got to it, there was an orange Home Depot bucket sitting in the middle of the road. And I'm like, what the heck? And I got out to look. And there was a sign on it. And it said, yeah, somebody's sitting in a blind at the end of this road. Please don't come down here anymore.

And this bucket's not going to be destroyed by a big old rainstorm or something. So that bucket, it could sit there for 20 solid days. Is the dude going to be in it for 20 solid days? I mean, if they're putting a bucket in the middle of the road, it kind of probably means that they're actively in there. I would imagine they were in there. You would think so. That's what I would think. So you'd honor that probably more than a note at every water hole saying, I'm going to be here from September 1 to October 10th. Yeah. I think there could be a generic bucket. If somebody's sitting on the water, you put the bucket out and people know, oh, somebody's already there. Let's go somewhere else. So let's say that you check on the bucket at 2 a.m., okay, and the bucket's still there in the middle of the road. The next day, you check it at 2 a.m., 2 p.m., 2 a.m., 2 p.m., whatever.

At what point do you go check for yourself that somebody's in the blind or not? I don't know. There's a lot that could happen in a blind. Well, there'd be a vehicle somewhere. People spend the night in blinds. No kidding. Yeah. I know people that have stayed a night in the blind just because you can't get in there, like, say, trying to beat deer or elk. I've slept in the blind multiple days. Yeah, go in. Basically, it's a tent at that point. I even hunted. Just used the blind as a tent, per se. It's miserable to stay in a blind. Yeah. I will tell you that. But I've done it. Oh, yeah. Snakes, scorpions. You've got to build up the sides and plus your scent and 14 other things. But what else do you think has happened in blinds, Josh? I don't know. Just probably, yeah, lots of hunting.

I don't know. It's kind of what they're built for. Yeah. Okay. All right. So then what else are we talking about? So, Wyatt, you're not dealing with the bottles. You're not going to deal with the notes. If somebody's actively hunting it, yes, but if nobody's actively hunting it, and you can tell, I'm not even believing the notes anymore. No one's been down this dirt road, and you have notes in every water hole, then you can't just claim an entire mountain range. Yes. Right.

Okay. All right. So, John, you've got some ethic issues. You've had some ethic issues. Not that you personally are unethical, but you've witnessed some personal ethic issues. I think you could expand it to etiquette as well. There you go. That's a better word. Yeah. It's not necessarily ethics, but, yeah. I mean, we hit on the big one. My pet peeve is you're set up. You walk in two hours before light to get on the top of a knob, and your truck's pretty much the only thing at the base of it, and somebody walks up. After. And sits right next to you. That's why I say go 100 yards. So the devin issues. Especially if you have the option to go 100. Sometimes there's one little outcropping, and I'll be like, you can sit there, dude. I get it. I get it. You're ruined. I would say go as far away as you can.

This is your morning as much as it is my morning, and there's one place to go, and that's here. So whatever. Do your thing. I usually have a plan B in mind, and, okay, there's a truck here already. I'm going to go to plan B or plan C. Or I'll glass off the other side. I try to get out of view. You know? So you have at least the illusion of I'm kind of alone, you know? My favorite was when I had a – we were up on a rock outcropping. A guy and his daughter comes out, and I was with my kids, and they set up right below us, like 30 yards. You were going to be shooting over top of them. The direction we're shooting. Yeah. And you guys have been known to lay down some left. Oh, yeah. I just yell and say, hey, you want me to just shoot over you? What? You know? You did? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I had it on video. It's great. He's just like, what? What do you mean? Like, he plays stupid.

Well, you sat under my gun. Come on. What if I were to tell you I was that guy once that actually went and sat next to somebody else? Okay. Who was it? What was the situation? Whoa. And I'm sure they're probably going to listen to this too. Brad and Craig, hello. Whoa. Okay. I love it when Josh goes down these roads. No. Like, just as a devil's advocate kind of thing, you know, let's say there's a particular buck, like a 236-incher that you've been watching all summer long, and you've been like- Logan, mark this. You've been- Where are we at time-wise? No, we're good. 22-11. We're good. We may or may not edit this. And you feel like you've been like one of the only few guys that have been seeing this deer, and you've been just like waiting and waiting, waiting all summer. You haven't seen a soul there. And then the night before, it was the night before the muzzleloader hunt?

And you go out there to this spot, and all of a sudden, there's a truck parked in the very spot, and dudes sit on the very knob you were sitting on, and it's like, yeah, a decision to make. And I'm like, I know that buck's going to come out. I don't know who these dudes are, but I'm going to make sure that they know that they're not the only guys that have this deer in this spot to think that they're the only ones here. So I went and sat right between the three of them. Wow. That's when I wish I was like 6'8", just shredded. You know? What about 6'4"? That's what I'm saying. I'd have to be bigger than Josh. 6'4", and Burney. Sat in the middle of them, and was like, hey, guys, you know, I guess we're going to watch this buck all come out together. And he did. And the other big buck, and they came out. But they had the joke on me, because actually one of them had the sportsman's tag in his

pocket, and they could have smashed the buck in front of me. That could have been real bad. So they really could have got back at me at that point. Hey, if you don't mind, could you get me a butts pad? I need to catch. Yeah. I need to shore up my rifle a little bit. Yeah, the guy whips out a rifle in the muzzleloader, you'd be losing your mind. Well, that's kind of what, like, the one kid got up and walked back to the truck. Like, they were potentially going to shoot that deer. Okay, this is rare. So you're not like everybody's friends. So it's, they're good. Are you like a public land? I can stand wherever I want. Like, you could come and stand in front of me. No, I wouldn't, I wouldn't do it. It was just in that moment. It was, I don't know. I got caught up. My feelings got the best of me, and I was just, I was wild.

Well, you were there first, and then you just, but then instead of giving them their space, you just went and sat with them. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Probably not the best thing to do, but anyway. Igor sits next to me. I'm going to be this little guy on his back beating on him. Now we're, now, but we're all good and stuff, but I don't know. It was one of those things. So I can see, I guess, sometimes why a guy could justify in his mind. But it wasn't, like I said, the hunt wasn't going. It was public land, but it's your public land the last five months. Yeah, exactly. You didn't share it the last five months. Nobody put in their due diligence, but they ended up there. Yeah. Probably through rumors or intel. Some of it was happenstance where the deer was living. I mean, yeah. Anyway. A little difference, though, too, where the hunt was not going. Yeah, exactly.

I wouldn't have done it that long. Oh, it wasn't the hunt? Pre-season scouting. No. Yeah, it was just, it was before the hunt. The worst is just when you roll up somewhere. Like, I'll never forget our buddy Dave. I drove through a place 10 minutes before the line. I was running late. I get up there, jump off my bike, and he had hiked it. And I'm like, dude, I'm sorry. You know what I mean? Like, how did I know you were here? And he's like, well. He hiked, like, a mile to get there in silence. Yeah, I didn't want the deer to know I was here. You went ahead and drove in. And it's like, dang, where do I go? You know? And then you feel weird. You're like, well. I'll be 30 yards over here. Well, I'm the guy that, I don't know. I'll give you a ride back. It wasn't an option. But it happens. But I think people, at the end of the day, it's just the golden rule, right? What's that?

Treat others as you'd want to be treated. Do unto others as you'd have done unto you. Like, if somebody does something to you that would bother you, then don't do it to other people. Yeah. Yeah. But maybe some people don't care if somebody comes and sits, you know. Yeah. There's a lot of people that actually look for vehicles. Like, are saying, well, this is a good area. Yeah. Like, they actually look for it. Like, and they're social. Like, there's a lot of people. So, okay, Josh, the guy that was spitting on you today, right? Like, we all have those people that invade our personal space. But our personal space, it varies in depth depending on who you are. That's true. Right? So, like John's saying, go 100 yards. I'm saying, just kind of go out of sight for a minute. If it's 25 yards, whatever, you know. But we all have that.

So, if you're with somebody, you can actually talk and point without it being awkward. Yeah. But sometimes it's just a knob is a knob, you know. I get it. I mean, so anyway.

Yeah. Okay. Well, good. All right. Anything else that we need? Should we talk about anything else ethics-wise? Hey, I want to go back to the blind thing. In my mind, it would be different if it's like a brushed-in blind. The brushed-in blinds are there for years to come. Right. But maybe what if it's a brushed-in blind that has fresh, dark, emerald green pine needle, right? Or a cedar tree, cedar boughs, whatever you want to call them, limbs, that you can obviously tell was for this hunt. Versus an old blind that's chicken wire, sticks, and stuff that's been there from 1953. Yeah. Yeah. The hard thing is you don't know if they're going to be there or not, or you come and nobody's there. I'm not sweating it, right? I don't know. You're not sweating it? I don't know on that one. Yeah. So let's say there is a blind there. You don't know. There's no bottle. There's no note.

Are you putting your blind there? Yeah, I don't know. Are you going to do that? Yeah. You are. Like an old blind? Right? Like you don't know if he's going to be there for the 20-day or 30-day season in Nevada, like August 10th to September 9th. Yeah. Like, geez. Or if it's a brushed-in blind, do you still put your blind there? Yes, absolutely, right? Yeah. I think so. I mean, it's just... Unless it's a freshie and it's, you know. Yeah. But you having a blind there is not going to hurt anything until you go to sit in it. Yeah. Right? So then you make the conscious decision. They park their bike here. They are in the blind. I know they're in the blind. That's a fresh blind. They're parked here. Yeah. And now I roll in. Am I going to go sit in a blind 20 feet from their blind? Yeah. Then I would say no. Yeah.

So back when you could use thermal, would people thermal the blind and see if there was warm bodies in the blind? I imagine stuff like that probably happened. So this is next-level hunting. This is combat hunting. I don't know for sure. I mean, I've never... Is that why you haven't ever used that or seen if you can see inside a blind with thermal? That would explain why I'd see guys walking around with metal sheet metal in front of them. Yeah. Would that happen? With handles glued to the back of it. Okay. Talk a little more. I'm just totally making that up. I'd imagine it might happen.

I had heard that it had happened. What? Which part? The guys had thermal blinds. Nobody was in it. It's not your blind, but nobody's in it. You're 30 minutes from prime time. Put their hunter in it. They should have been there to throw their hunter in it. And they kill a buck. Somebody else's blind? Yeah. Oh, man. I'm telling you, if you sit in my blind... What's worse? Somebody's stealing your trail camera or somebody's sitting in your blind? You've got to be pretty bold to sit in somebody's blind. Yeah. That's like... I would just go and I'd say, hey, I've got to move this. So sorry. Like their sunglasses are... I'm taking my blind home. I'm moving my blind. Blinds are very personal spaces. Yeah. What if I was going to sleep in there? That's like going in somebody's tent. There's my pee bottle. Yeah. Like I got my stuff, right? I would be serious. But it's true. You've got pee bottles.

You've got drinks. You've got snacks. You're hanging... It's your home. My little sunglasses are up on the little, you know, tent. Yeah. What do you call them? A stay or whatever? I just... I don't know. That's like going in somebody's tent. Yeah. Don't do that. Yeah. Don't do that.

What would you do? I'm surprised more people haven't been killed. Like you could call that your home, right? And if somebody invades your home, you could... Yeah. If somebody invades your home, you'd kill them. Right? I think I would just move my home. We should Google that. It's happened in the East guaranteed. Huh? Yeah. No, I bet. If you think it's happened. Gunfights over blinds? Mm-hmm. I don't know. My ethics question is about a buck that everybody knows about and that everybody's hunting. Like, how hard do you hunt that and where do you draw the line? Like, if you know... If you wake up in the morning and get to the spot and you're hiking in and you know five or more people are going to be on this buck, are you going for it? Are you walking by people? Well, if you choose to do that, you'd be the first there. You just make sure you're there early. I like beating them.

I like beating them on top of the hill. But I just think... I think it's easier to hunt a buck that everybody's hunting versus I know it's me against Devin. But... Oh, where's one guy? There's one glassing knob. And there's one water hole. And there's... Like... Two blinds. Like, there's some... It's tougher than... I think it just really is just treat people how you'd want to be treated. Honestly. You know what I mean? Like, be respectful. Yeah. That's all you can do. You can't... Other people are going to do what they're going to do. Some things are situational, too. Like what Devin's saying. Like, some things are just... You've got to play... You've got to have a conscience in certain situations. Like, some things are going to be okay in some situations and other things aren't. That are. And the other one. So you just have to have a conscience and just think. Just think.

People just don't think sometimes. Okay. Cash. You've got some scenarios in your mind. Why don't we talk about what you're thinking about? I don't know. Just... I mean, I can think of an example down in Arizona. Like, when we were on an elk hunt. It's... There's this huge valley. Almost all the elk are kind of in this big valley. And there's two miles across it. And one end there is one knob. And there's... All the outfitters are on that knob. Yeah. And you can see 360 around the whole knob. Like, in some situations... It's the rock pile of sand. Yeah. You can either go to there or you can go two miles to the other end. Yep. And there's, like, four around this whole thing. And it's, like, that's the angle for kind of this section. And in that situation, yeah, that's fine. Like, everyone kind of knows. You go to that. That's what everyone kind of glasses from. Okay.

You can't glass that angle. You go glass another angle. But other situations where there's maybe four options of knobs, you don't go... You don't go sit. Like Devin was saying, you don't go sit 10 feet from a guy when there's a knob 300 yards right there that you can see all the same stuff. You know? That's why I think some of it's situational to a degree. All right. Josh, I love it when you dive down some of these crazy roads because of the shock and awe. Stuff that comes out of your mouth is pretty interesting. Do you have any other... No. Any other ethics... No. ...that you've been thinking about? And I'm not saying, like, back with that story. I don't condone doing that all the time. But there's times when I could see where someone else could do that to you. Like, let's just be real. We're all here for the same time. If they haven't seen you and all of a sudden you are there.

Because in a similar situation, I kind of have the same thing, the exact same area and stuff. And somebody was sitting on that spot the morning of the muzzleloader hunt. And I was like, okay, I can't obviously go there. You know? And I didn't go sit there next to them, even though I could have. But it actually worked out better for me because the buck came out closer to me. And I killed it. But... So, yeah. I'm just saying I could see why sometimes people think it is okay when you put in a significant amount of time or whatever. And you think that, okay, you make this big master plan. It's all working and it's all good until you get there. There's a truck there. There's a guy there or whatever. I'm not saying it's right. But I could see why it could happen. Anyway. Okay.

All right. So, do we want to talk about social media ethics or scouting on social media or anything like that?

It's all fair. If you post it out there. Yeah. Wyatt's been sending me bulls from the, you know. Well, it could be from Fish Lake or it could be from Nebo. And he's saying they're on Pengwich. Oh, every bull that's on Instagram right now. Is off Pengwich in your backyard. Why don't you know about this? A unit from New Mexico that I might have an elk tag from. Okay. New Mexico. Here's a New Mexico bull you missed. Yeah. Every, every, every bull I see. I mean, and a lot of non-typicals, it seems like. There was one. It was three, what, 500 inches. Wyatt's going out and getting ranch bulls and saying, how did you miss this one? He said, rumor is that's mammoth. You know. And then gets frustrated when he sees me this morning. He's like, did you go look for those bulls last night? And I'm like, no. No. And he gets mad because he's sending me all this information that I'm not using. Yeah.

That you're not using. Yeah. Yeah. So it just makes it weird. I have to shut the window.

Just trying to help a guy out. Yeah. Well, it could have been from New Mexico. Keep him motivated. It could have been from his backyard. Keep him motivated. They're out there. That's true. They're out. They make them every day. They're a renewable resource. They make them every day. Wyatt's job is to find them. And at night, him and Case, search in social media, right? Yeah.

Look at Wyatt scrolling right now. I'm just going to show you the video. What?

Wow. How did you miss those, Josh? And he's mad that I wouldn't. Dude, that's no joke. There's three faux hundos in a row right there. Might be five hundos. I was going to say pushing five. And he even had a location for me and everything. Oh, and it does say, hey, can't wait for hunting season. When's that year round? Whenever.

But Wyatt follows them. Do you follow the ranch hunts, Wyatt? No. No. No. All right. All right. Okay. So let's move past. Unless you guys have something else to talk about on ethics. There's plenty of other ethics out there. You know, a lot of people have ethics. They only think you should shoot a longbow. They only think you should shoot, not use long-range rifles, whatever. I think where that goes, I've had a lot of clients that what the law is, the law is. So that's as far as the ethics go. It's individual, right? And as long as you obey the law. Is that kind of where you guys are at on it? Or is there, do you have ethics beyond that? Do you judge people beyond that? Well, I mean, there's definitely respect. There's a law and there's also respect to other hunters. Or wildlife. Yeah. Or wildlife. Or respect to wildlife. Yeah.

Like you've never made a 1,000-yard shot, but then you're going to go out and make a 1,000-yard shot. Or where are you drawing your line on ethics and respect? Well, that's kind of each person. I mean, if there's a guy out there who shoots 1,000 yards every day and, I mean, 100. Or not even every day. Maybe just very consistent. 100 bullets a week shooting 1,000 yards. Very consistent. Very comfortable in his skills. Then, yeah, that guy's probably well within his respect. Yeah. Just like I thought it was pretty responsible. Wyatt, he told me this morning, even though he's going to have a rifle in Alaska, we still have to get within bow range for him. Well, there's some video that was showing some far-out shooting last year on a moose.

That was me. Oh.

Yeah. You don't stop shooting until they're on the ground. Okay. Okay. Well, I don't know if that's where this bow distance comes in or why is Wyatt making rules for you guys? No, himself. If I'm already there, I don't want to walk any further than I do. From now on, I want to be involved in these conversations because you get where you want in the tent, how far you're shooting, what else we got? What I think is funny is Wyatt chooses the middle. Okay. Who chooses the middle? When I'm on an airplane, I want either side. I want the aisle or the window. You're in bear country. If a bear comes up, you want him to snack on somebody else first. At least you get a chance to. He's smart. I thought you were supposed to wear tennis shoes. Wasn't that like the bear in tennis shoes kind of thing? Well, that's outrun them. I mean, you're in the tent sleeping at night.

They're going to come to the edges. Also, let's just say you guys are going up moose hunting. It's kind of common knowledge. Pretty fun. Kind of fun to think about. But Wyatt has this 10 mil. Okay. Do you trust Wyatt? If Wyatt's going to save you. I've already given you a verbal contractual permission. That he can start shooting, and if he hits you, he hits you. If a bear's on me, going up my neck, head, whatever, shoot him. If you hit me, you hit me. If I die, I die. Me with a handgun, they might as well just be blanks in there. It's just all about the bang. That's what we're going for. It's about the muzzle flash. Hopefully the bang deters whatever it is. I burn his eyes. I threaten litigation if I'm struck with a bullet.

Anyway, so Wyatt's gunless. He's thinking about being gunless, right? That was the other thing. Yeah, he's thinking we're just going to pack for him. He gets to pick the first freeze-dried meal. He's already said, you're going to pack, you're going to pack, and he's going to sit in the middle. Yeah. He gets to pick the first freeze-dried meal. I told him. He gets to get the first drink of water. If you don't bring a pistol, I'm not either. Perfect. So now we've got JFP packing. I'm taking a pistol. And I'm going to choose whether these guys get. Handgun training. Okay. You know, he's been to shooting schools, handgun training. Wyatt gets this wazoo holster in the mail, and then decides he's not even bringing a gun. I know. The guy even had to come to the house and kind of special fit it, readjust it, and now he's not even going to take it. Why? Wyatt, we've got questions.

I don't understand. We're not getting any answers. I'm not a handgun guy. So what about bear spray? No, I didn't take bear spray. So I wouldn't want to be sprayed in the face. I'm glad he's not taking bear spray for you guys. That's true. My luck, you'd get a breeze coming right back at you, and you'd just get it in your own eyes. I've been sprayed with that stuff. Shoot me instead. My parents went to Alaska last year, and my mom was packing bear spray with her on a blacktail hunt, and the guy laughed at her and said, what's that going to do? Yeah. They don't believe in bear spray in Alaska. Yeah. Probably not wrong. Josh, how'd you get sprayed? Sure would be nice if your friends were there to, you know, if stuff went south, to be there to help you and protect you. Bear spray is made for Democrats in the lower 48 national states. I'm talking about bringing guns.

Because they don't believe in guns, so you've got to make something for the Dems. Oh, yeah. And so if you're going to go to Yellowstone, here's some bear spray for you. Good luck. Use a lot of it. Huh? According to them, it wouldn't even help. That's kind of right, don't you think? Yeah. I mean, if you go back and listen to that bear attack podcast we did. Bear spray does nothing. Yeah. Put the lead in them. Veer it into me. I'm not, sucker. I mean, even when they have lead in them, they still keep coming. I was going to say, they're so jacked up on adrenaline when they finally attack you, I don't know. Let's stop them. Where you want to lay in the center in a tent with these guys, I just wonder, is your love language physical touch?

You think like I'm going for it. I don't know. I don't know. I just was, I for one, I'm not choosing the center, but I was just wondering what, if you're a physical touch guy, I guess that's all I want to know. I don't take Wyatt for a physical touch guy. Is he gifts? What is your love language? It's strictly because if a bear comes to the tent, it's going to gnaw on somebody else first. Besides that, what's your love language? Is it affirmation? People say good job. I've never done this love language deal that you guys talk about. I'm going to have to take my quiz or whatever. You need to take the quiz. It would be interesting to know because I think some of these things that you're deciding how you go about life is based off of your love language.

Maybe I need to take these quizzes.

All right. Let's move. Wait. I've got one last pet peeve. What do you guys think? Wait. Hold on. What do you think Wyatt's love language is? You've got physical touch, affirmation. Affirmation. Quality time. Quality time. Service. Service. I don't know. Service doesn't sound bad. So if I come over and mow your lawn, are you just like grateful forever, maybe never forget it? Probably. Yeah. Probably. If I changed your tire. Did something nice for me? Like if we were out there in the middle of nowhere and I changed the tire and gave you a drink of water, the last drink of water.

Yeah.

Maybe I don't have any. What's the fifth one, John?

Words. Words of affirmation. Physical touch. Quality time.

Service. Service. There's one more. I don't know. People are yelling at it. Lots of gifts. Gifts. That's what it is. Gifts. That is it. Some people just really are a gifty person. Yeah. A lot of gals. And then they marry a guy that's not gifts. That's not. Words of affirmation. He's like, oh, happy birthday. You're a hell of a good person. And they're like, where's my gift? True. You know? So anyway, but not to take away, I would say service maybe. I'm kind of wondering. Or quality time. Quality time is definitely probably one. So this cunt is going to be amazing for your relationship with Josh and Devin. Yeah. You guys are going to bond like crazy in your mind. And they're thinking, I'm pretty well done with this quality time. And you're loving it.

Yeah.

And then one of you two is probably touch. And so that's going to do it for you too. Because you guys are going to be close in that tent because of the bears. What are you doing? What's your love? I don't know. I was thinking about it. I don't know. I'm going to have to take some quiz, I guess. Take a quiz. Words of affirmation, maybe. Maybe. It's nice to know when you do a good job. Yeah. Those are all good things. Gifts, service, touch. Give me some gifts. I won't complain. Give me some Oreos, please. Service. Probably to an extent of all of them. Josh, what's your love language, Josh? Yeah, probably some gifts. It's not touch. Is it gifts like if your wife came and said, here's this? Usually, if people are gifts, then you're a really good person at giving gifts. So like, are you good at remembering Valentine's Day and birthdays and Christmas? Like, are you good at that? Yeah.

I'm pretty good at that. I'd say I'm not great at doing it. I remember it. But it's... Does she know? Does she figure gifts? Does she know that if she gives you a gift, that your heart is hers forever? Oh, yeah. She's that way, for sure. No. But this is a hunting podcast. I feel like we're going to a therapy session right now. All I know is ever since we... There's been a lot of talk lately about us and sleeping situations and what we're going to be doing and all that stuff. Because we don't even have a tent. Yeah. We're still trying to figure that option out. And I've seriously woken up the last few months in this weird state that I'm in a tent with these guys already. And they're like, Devin or Wyatt are in bed with me. And I physically wake up and look over and see my wife. I'm like, okay. Thank goodness. Thank goodness. Because I wake up in this weird panic.

You could have your own tent. No, I don't know. I don't want your own tent. Just this... You're not a touch guy. No. I can tell you are not a physical touch guy. I remember in high school wrestling trips and they'd put you in a hotel room. Were you good at wrestling? No, absolutely not. But I was like... I was twisted in positions. I've seen parts of my body no human should ever see. How I got there, I don't know. I didn't physically know I could see that. But I'm here. But anyway, I... Like, yeah. We'd go on these wrestling trips and they'd throw four of you in a hotel room. And I didn't take a... I didn't take a whatever. Sleeping pad or whatever. So you're sitting in bed with another dude, you know? And I'm like... I panic. You know? I'm like, okay, the rule is keep one foot on the ground at all times. Like, you and I both. One foot has to be touching the ground.

Because I don't want this accidentally... Or me just accidentally roll over and throw an arm over Wyatt or something. It might get weird. Because if his is physical touch, I don't know. This is not good. Yeah. I'm less afraid of a bear coming to get me. Jeez. Jeez.

I'm glad you're in the middle. Because that means no matter what, I can't touch Josh. Yeah.

Good luck, Wyatt. And I have night terrors. Especially because he told us a lot. He's bringing romantic novels or whatever to read. Oh, you did talk about that. You've already got books on order. I got three in the middle yesterday. Jeez. The notebook's one of them, no? Yeah. I don't blame you for bailing. I'm out. I'm out. I'm starting to question. Kevin, are you going to let that ride? Romantic books is what you're taking? I don't. Hey, let's say this. The last two books I brought, Wyatt read both of them before I read both of them. They're CJ Bach's books. No, they're good books. You'll like them. Your guys' love languages are so unique and different. But when you all come back, you're going to be super tight. Because somebody got touched.

Somebody got served by the others gutting their moose. You know, there's going to be a lot of bonding. Give some back strap. Yeah. And then there's gifts. Somebody's going to help somebody. Somebody's going to give somebody an Oreo. An Oreo. If they're packing out my moose, I'm 100% acts of service. 100%? You pack my moose out. I love you forever. Made up my mind right there. I'm an acts of service guy. If Igor's packing out your moose, you love him forever. Yep. Hey, I mowed my lawn with my backpack on last night with a 50-pound backpack. You did? Yeah. Somebody video it and throw it up on the ground? No, but I bet my neighbor was like, what in the heck? Man, those pollocks there. I do that every time? Yeah. Was it a motorized push mower or was it a real push mower? It was a push mower. Well, it was electric. I don't know. It was one of those zero thirds. You just sat on it.

You pull up things and it's got a gear. And the gears. And it pulls you. No. Plus or minus. It's harder than you would think. Oh, yeah. It is. Especially like just bending over to grab it. Like get the grass out. Yeah. It sucks. Yeah. Yeah. I bet your neighbor wasn't even surprised. Just keep doing it eventually. Just because like the norm. Yeah. Devin, I think your love language also is service. You can have two of them. We're really on to this, aren't we? I'll bet your part words of affirmation but then service because you will help people. For sure. We both can't be serviced though. Like you know what it's like to be helped. And you would help people. Like I think you like to do that. That seems like to me.

I don't know. Not sure? Not sure. All right. I mean I'm kind of with Wyatt. Like I left. You want the middle? No. I stepped out for a minute from this podcast and I came back into this and I'm like, I don't know. That's a hunting podcast. It's awkward. It's kind of weird. It is. It's awkward. I was thrown off. I was really thrown off. Talking about blind buddies. Yeah. It was kind of a weird change. Personal touch and love languages. You're saying we've lost everybody. We went from ethics to love languages. Yeah. Okay. Let's go straight up. We do have some questions. Let's move right on. No. Wait. Wait. I got to get my pet peeve out. Oh. Here we go. All right. When you ask me in the field or any time. Where are you going? Where other members of the Epic Outdoors staff are hunting. What unit is Jason in right now? And I want to say. Hawaii. I can't believe you asked me that. Yeah.

Like, stop asking me where everybody else is. In fact, I will specifically not ask Jason where he is just so I can honestly answer that question. Yeah. I don't know. Don't make us lie. Yeah. Geez. Anyway. There's mine. Well, and as you're going to find out, like, don't go where I go because you don't kill anything. Maybe you can just tell people. I've actually told people the truth and they just don't believe it because they can't imagine. They would never tell the truth. Yeah. So when you tell the truth, they assume you're not because they would never. That's a good tactic. You know? So just tell them the truth. They might be like, really? What's he doing out there? Like, they're not going to think, I'm going to go there right now. They're going to think that is a desolate PLS. You know what I mean? Yeah. I am not going there. So. All right. Well, let's move forward. Josh.

Question reader guy. Yes. He's back. So we did some question and answer. You're type questions out there. Right? Logan? You threw it out to the general public saying, hey, do you have any questions? What questions do you got? It doesn't mean they all get answered. And A, you get. And B. A. Doesn't mean they all get answered. B. You get to decide if we answered them honestly. I do. No. The world does. Oh. Right? The world does. There you go. So like, I mean, if it's too personal, well, then maybe it's just too personal, right? But who knows? John, you read a few of them already. I think Wyatt. I couldn't get Wyatt to quit reading them. I read a few. And I haven't even looked. I haven't even taken one little glance. Well, we could start off while John was on a pet peeve. We could get an answer from this one. This one. And I'm not going to read the name first. I'll read the name after.

Should we ever read the name? Yeah. Yeah. They took the time to submit. But I'm just going to wait and you'll see why. So this one says, would John actually, all caps, actually take a sheep hunt from his daughter? Oh, 100%. He would. This was submitted by Kate Calai. So that was actually John's daughter. So my daughter. John, are you going to take a sheep hunt from her if you could? Okay. Okay. We're going to set the record straight right here. And actually, my daughter. I'll promote youth hunting to its fullest. My daughter's got a lot of crap over this conversation, apparently. But no, I told her the question wasn't, would I take a hunt away from my daughter? It is, if I was king, would I say no one under 30 could draw a sheep tag? And I said, yes. And then someone said, even if your daughter's under 30, would you prevent her from going?

I said, well, if I was king and I made the law that you had to be 30, it would apply to her. So there you go. I mean, can we change it? Right now? Not taking the opportunities from kids. No. But right now, if she drew a tag, I would. Yes, I wouldn't take a tag away from my daughter. Deserves a tag over her. Right. Right. No, just, yeah, you can build points until you're 30, and then you can start drawing on the sheep tags. But that's... Well, I want to add on to that. A, the problem is you could die between 15 and 30. It's true. Okay, so you never got that cool opportunity. But B, I drew a buffalo tag in Utah when I was 15 years old, okay, before I could drive. So I was left to relying on my dad on when we scouted, if we scouted, when we went, if we went, if we hunted opening day, if we could hunt the whole season or not. So I'm not saying we did it wrong. It just, it was so long ago.

I was so young. Was I an active participant in the hunt? Yeah, I was. And I, I mean, I was a goer at that age, but I'm just saying, like, that experience would have been more cherished, relished, whatever, if I would have been a little older than 15. So that'll play into what you're... That's the sentiment. You know, cut your teeth on deer and elk when you're young. When you have the opportunity to appreciate the once-in-a-lifetime opportunities. Yeah, you kill a sheep at 14, I just think you're not capable of appreciating the experience at 14. No. You didn't even apply. You're not even applying yourself. It's almost like an expectation. You're not even paying for your own apps. Yeah. You don't know what you got. Yeah. I have no idea what you got. Yeah. And, you know, the rest of the world has X amount of points, X amount of dollars invested over the course of 20, 30, 40, 50 years.

I just never have drawn it. All right. All right. So you're not going to steal from her. Not going to steal from her. But not saying it's a perfect situation either. Is it a huge deal? No. It's not even a huge deal. I'm just saying, like, they don't appreciate them that much. John, have you drawn a sheep tag? I have not drawn a sheep tag. Might be a sensitive subject, right? Like, here you are, 50, 50, or whatever, and you have not drawn a sheep tag. And so I get where you're coming from. All right. So I got an honest answer. Okay. From an honest dad. Thanks, Kate. And a daughter that wanted some answers. She did ask me, would you mentor me the tag if you drew a sheep tag? And I was like, you're over 18. I don't have to answer.

Whoa. Can't mentor one to a- Can't mentor after you're over 18. All right. All right. Okay. So Plan B Outfitters asks, Euro-mounted 190 or shoulder-mounted 180?

Wherever you walked. Yeah. You guys going to dive in? I don't know. I almost think that I, anymore, I'm not a, I'm not going to say I'm not a fan of shoulder mounts. But there's something about holding on to these downers. You like to hold them. I like to hold them. Like, you know, the mass, like that typical we've got in my office. Like, when he comes down to eye level and you grab onto him, then you appreciate that mass a little more. When they're hard to grab on, they hurt your hands because all the knobs. You know what I mean? So there's something to be said for the Euros. I would say you need both. There you go. What do you think, why? Oh, it's kind of tough. I mean, now the point I'm at, running out of room, you know, shoulder mounts are going to be harder and harder to put somewhere or fit. So a buck, you know, of that caliber might be a Euro mount anymore. Yeah.

Depends on where you're at, I guess, with your goals. Yeah, but let's go back to the size. There's a bit of difference between a 180 and a 190. Yeah. I'm kind of liking the 190, right? Yeah. I mean, huh? Yeah, I think if you like the 190 in your hand, it's, yeah, you're going to appreciate it. Whereas, like, the 180 on the wall is like, that's a nice buck, you know. Yeah. It's a good deer, but. It's actually a trophy nowadays, which we'll talk about as we keep going. All right. Okay. Are you marking down that we're crushing these? Like, it's our job. Oh, yeah. We got two out of the way. Two out of 40. 50, 60. I don't know. Or, Logie Bear, you were saying there was like four days where the podcast questions. There is. There's a lot of questions there. I didn't count them, but there's like three pages. All right.

Muley242 asks, which Epic team member will be buying the first Tesla Cybertruck? Oh. Oh. It's not me. None. Yeah. Don't know any of us. Let's just vote Adam since he's not here. He may already have one on order. He likes to try new stuff. Yeah. Adam Bronson. Adam Bronson. He may already have one on order now. Sometimes I get frustrated with technology and stuff and you just finally just throw it down and say, fine. You're going to force me to use it. I'll use it. You know, I get sick and tired of stuff being shoved down our throats nonstop. And at some point, it's going to be shoved down our throats that we use. Oh, yeah. Electric. Dim equipment. Let's call it dim equipment. I like it.

But at some point, they might become pretty awesome. Who knows? Wyatt, slow rolling the pines in an electric vehicle. I think they're too quiet. Yeah. I was just going to say. He's going to say they're too quiet. Might have to put a little exhaust noise on loudspeakers. Daryl actually has dual exhaust. Oh. Does that help to hurt? I think it helps. It equals it out. So, if it's on the right side or on the left, it's both sides of the road. So, before you used to just see more deer on the left. Now you're seeing them on both the left and the right. Now they're on both. Yeah. I like it. I like it. Logan Bear, you're going to be slow rolling the pines. I was just about to ask. Is the old Ford too quiet to slow roll the pines? I think you're good. That eco-boot? That eco-boot. F-150, 2014. Do you have any exhaust modifications? All stock. It's an eco-boot, so it's quiet.

Does it have a few squeaks in the shocks? Maybe a little. Yeah. It's a little rattly. You'll probably be all right. Now you got me nervous. You don't want them to think you're hunting them. I mean, when you go in quiet, stealthy, they know something's up. It's absolute truth. Let's be honest. Unless your dad's buying gas, you're not using your truck anyway. That's true. I'm taking it. Whoa.

Josh is a little brutal. Brutal honesty from Josh is hurtful. I know.

Dad, are you buying gas? We can take my truck. Chin up, Logie Bear. Chin up.

All right. Question reader guy. 2C Hunt Consulting says, are monster energy drinks bad for your health? Oh, yeah. I contend no. What? Let's talk about it. I contend no. You're getting vitamins that nobody's ever heard of before? Exactly. Have you seen, like, I don't primarily, I don't take a daily multivitamin, but there are some multivitamins in this thing that I would not get have I not drank this. This rivals a prenatal vitamin. Yeah. My hair and nails have never felt stronger than one a day. Oh, I have to cut my nails twice a week. Yes. Once again. You're three a day. That is a problem. It is. I've got toenails that are growing like crazy. I contend whatever taurine is, I would not get it if I didn't have this, and I feel like it helps me. Anything that ends in E, it's probably not that good, though.

Well, the aspartame is the worst part about it, but you have to drink like 12 of those a day to get kidney stones from aspartame. It's not even close. Which John and Jason, you guys are reaching? Cool. Dude, I had a clean colonoscopy. I've had no kidney stones. Who else could say that? I had kidney stones, but it was before Monster was around, so I'm saying it's... What did they say they were from? They didn't know. They didn't know, but dang, did it hurt. I mean, where else are you going to get... Did you crawl to your truck? Because I know a guy. No. But I was going fishing to Alaska the next day. I went to the emergency room. Oh, I remember. You were actually taking advertising clients for back in the day, a long time ago. And I spent the night in the emergency room, and I'm telling you, when I got the morphine

in me, it was like I could feel it going up my arm, and it was the best thing ever. Because it was so painful. Another INE, Josh. Morphine. Yeah. Hey, that's a good one. We know it's a good one. Anyway, I passed it, and like four hours later, I was on a plane. Wow. I remember. You didn't have choices. No. Your boss, and it wasn't me, but I've never been your boss, but your boss told you you were going. Otherwise, there would have been a group boat full of advertisers with no host. Yeah.

Jeez. Okay. Let's go past that. That's a terrible experience. Panto, pantothenic acid. Where are you going to get 400% of that in your day if you don't drink one of those? I'm telling you. Really, it's a cheap prenatal. It keeps you healthy. It goes down good. You know what they also say is vitamins don't really get into your system because they're not made to be soluble, or whatever it is, right? And they just pass through. You drink it. Guaranteed. This is guaranteed to enter your body. Okay. I'm going to go with, yeah. It's a health drink, really. It is. Okay. I'm not, but I am cutting back, by the way. I woke up today. I'm like, I'm cutting back. I didn't feel good yesterday. You're right. You can go to sleep. Yeah. I have no problem. I'll drink one and go to sleep. Oh, yeah. There's no problems with that at all. It's just yesterday was a four day, and it did tilt me. I told you.

If I did that, I would be sick. Oh, I would. I'm a little heavier than you. I'm not Igor, but I'm good.

Okay. So, while we're on to that. You can't make up questions, Josh. Marshall. No, I'm just trying to read. Some of these handles are hard to read sometimes. Marshall J. Dotson says, have you ever tried a 60-40 mixture of orange Powerade to white monster? If not, you're welcome. I bet that would be pretty good. You know what else would be good? Put it in the freezer. Get a little slushy. Let's do it. We all have one tomorrow. Wyatt, you in? No. Come on. You went to the Mountain Dews. We can't get you off them. Very light back into the Mountain Dews. Whatever. Come on. Have you watched Wyatt drink a mountain? You jumped off the wagon. Yeah, he face planted.

We've talked about this. Have you watched him drink one of those Mountain Dews lately? No, I can't see him. Crushes them. You know how I sip my stuff. They're half the size of your monster. Wyatt's got them. I mean, he's tilted his head back. You put four of those in it today. And you just hear the can. Yes, exactly. He does it with authority. I own this place.

If Wyatt drank half a monster, it'd be a problem. He would be fun. He would be fun. We could call him a fun Wyatt. He wouldn't sleep for two days. Oh, I know. Him and Case would be fun. Maybe. So what do you think about White Monster and Tang? I freaking love Tang. You can't find it anymore. You can hardly find it. But man, is there not a better drink than Tang? That would be good. Straight sugar. I think you're going back to our childhood. I would say red cream soda, Tang, orange cream soda on a bad day. Like if it was like they didn't have red cream soda. This commercial just kind of ruined it for me. Which ones were they? The commercials, the Tang. Oh, were they bad? The orangutans. Oh. I don't remember. I don't remember that either. It was in the 90s. Yeah, we didn't have TV back in the day. Early 90s? Oh, my parents didn't let me watch TV. Yeah. So I've got some ketchup to do.

All right. So at first, when I was seeing the 60-40 and I was thinking maybe it was going to be an ethical question saying, have you ever tried a 60-40 mixture of Blackhorn 209 and smokeless powder? Whoa. Whoa. Who thinks of that? Only a guy that wants to live on the edge. I don't know. I just thought that could be a good performance propellant. What? I don't know. Let us know. If it is 60-40, is that considered smokeless? You better throw a disclaimer right there. I don't know. And has anybody ever checked? Would somebody make you pull your ball and check the powder? I can guarantee you there isn't a game warden in the state that would know whether it's smokeless or not. Yeah. By looking at it. Okay. Okay. Well, so we've opened up some ethical questions. I don't know. Like we've talked about. Have you done that? Don't do it. You could kill yourself. You could totally kill yourself.

So that smokeless will create pressures like none other. I just thought that's where that was maybe going. Okay. That's the gamey in you.

I have no gamey left in me. Wyatt, do you think there's gamey left in no gamey? Wyatt's got more gamey in him than I have.

Wyatt, if there's sleepless nights, it's because he's running from the gamey. That'd be Wyatt. And not that he has anything to run from. He's just slightly nervous. Wyatt's like a slightly nervous cat all the time.

He never settles in at his desk. Have you guys noticed? He never just settles in. He's ready to jump. If he had to jump at any given time, he could do it. Yeah. But he also shares a window with Josh. You never know what's going to go down at the end of the conference.

All right. Let's move on. All right. Question reader, why are you picking and choosing? Well, because I just don't – there's a lot of these questions that are kind of the same. Some of them are – so I want to make sure we get a good mix of stuff so guys don't hear just like 15 questions about a deer. All right. This is a hunting podcast. Yeah. We'll get around to it. It just makes it more – I'm thinking of the listener. All of the things we've talked about deal with hunting in one way or another. Okay. My Mac TV 23 says, NL Pure 14s or EL ranges and why? Man, you need both, don't you? Like I'm not saying – How about both? I mean you need a chest vinyl and the 14s are in the original pouch they came with in the bottom of my pack. So when you sit at the knob that you're sharing with somebody else, you pull out the 14s and you slap them on the tripod, but you're not hand-holding the 14s.

So you need a hand-hold vinyl. And if that's an EL range, great. If you have a set-aside range finder and a pair of 10s, then great. Or a pair of 12s, great. But you do need a chest vinyl and you do need a longer-range vinyl. Or if you can afford it, it's nice to have a longer-range vinyl on the bottom of your pack. What do you guys think? Well, I think he's saying like one or the other. Which one do you – 10s or 12s, right? No, it was 14s. Yeah, 14s. EL range? NL Pure 14s or EL ranges. They're not really comparable. No. But I can see where like – So that's where I dove into – Yeah. But if you're one or the other, I guess you're doing 10s and you slap them on a tripod. I've done the EL ranges on a tripod. Bungee them to the tripod and tripod the 10s. What do you guys – Yeah. What are you doing? If you had to pick one or the other, for sure, I think the 10s. 10s. What?

Yeah, I would say 10s. And you're an EL range fan. Yep, an EL range fan. And have you slapped them on a tripod? I have used them on a tripod before. So I've used mine a lot. I prefer my 14s or 15s on a tripod, though, just that more magnification. I'm with you. When I sit down and really get settled in, I want some solid magnification. But if a guy's buying one or the other today and doesn't have the money for both – 10s. You've got to start with the 10s. Yeah, you've got to start with 10s. A standalone range finder and buy a Vortex pair 18s. How about that? Same money? Maybe. There you go.

Devin's adding it up, shaking his head. No, you're off.

All right. Okay. Okay.

J.M. Castaneda 2 says, what is your guy's go-to bullet for deer?

I know what Devin and I are choosing. I shoot an Acubond. There. And Wyatt. A long-range. You do? ABLR. You're using a long-range Acubond? I have ABLRs, but there's the normal Acubonds for a long time. I like the normal Acubonds. I haven't heard that good of things about the long-range Acubond holding together in a few things. But I haven't tested them. I'm using the regular Acubonds, whether it be a 30-cal, whether it be the 7PRC. Is it for deer? Yeah, you know those? Yeah, an Acubond. Those ELDXs going a little bit slower, like out of my fear, so I'm using the ELDX. And they've been awesome. Even elk, they've been awesome, awesome. But then there's people complaining. Yeah, you hear terrible things about those ones as well. But I think that's when they're souped up. And I think that's the same probably with the Acubond long-ranges. Yeah, that's right. That's right.

Well, whether it's a burger, any of those high BCs are going to be that same. Yeah, the burger, same thing. You get it too fast. Yep. I shot a burger. Well, anyway. A 180 going 37. Yeah. Could you imagine? Remember that? Those are grenade. That was out of the Tejas, that little wildcat from way back. And it was no joke. It was a fist-sized hole going in. Yeah. You know what I mean? But anyway, it was kind of fun. Speed kills. Kind of addicting. Right? It doesn't like a little speed. Okay. Josh, what are you shooting?

I've always said, like out of my 7 mag, I like Acubonds the best. If you can get them to shoot, it's hard to find them and all these things. Yep. And then, because you kind of have to check a bullet for a gun. Sometimes, I mean, that gun, it took a lot. I shot several bullets out of it that I killed a lot of stuff with it, but either it's shooting too fast, shooting too slow. Like you kind of have to get a bullet that performs good in that Acubond when I settled on it. It does really well. I've started shooting some of them, that Norma Bond strike that's similar to an Acubond, and it's done really well. I like it. So, yeah, that's, I think those are really good options. And you're shooting that out of a rum, right? Mm-hmm. 300 rum. So, 300 rum, I think you were using something a little bit different. You were using that blue tip. Yeah, that was the Bond strike. The Norma Bond strike.

Yeah. Okay. And I've seen it kill elk and deer and, I mean, I don't know. Yeah. It just did hammer stuff. Yeah. All right. So, I've had good luck with that. Okay. This one comes from Ty underscore Alan five.

Need a full podcast on dating tips and advice. Jeez. Well, we're going to need to know his love language. We need to know a few things. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Like, we should send out a little question and answer thing. You know how you have to go to the doctor's office and fill out all the medications you're on and any of the other elements you've had throughout your life? And maybe some mental trauma and 14 other things. Give us that and then we'll give you a little recipe for dating. He might be a single hunter guy, like, you know, and is getting to his late 20s. He might need some help. What if he's in his 40s? I talked to this guy a little bit after he submitted that question because I thought it was pretty funny. Surprise. You did? Yeah. And now you guys are meeting up at Chili's. We've started talking now before meeting at Chili's to further our next conversation.

Actually, we can pass that question because we've fully vetted that out. He's going to be my glassing buddy. My blind buddy, my glassing buddy. That's right. Can I have some Southwest egg rolls together? Okay.

I don't know. Be a man. Find a woman. I don't know. Like, is it that hard? Like, why is it so hard? Hey, they make them every day. Yeah, there's millions of them out there. I see them driving up the freeway. They make them every day. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Josh, get off the internet. Go ask a girl on a date. I don't know. He's too old. He doesn't say you're just old, man. I don't know what to tell you. Pump the brakes. That's old school thought process right there, Josh. They'd haul you down to the jail. Should we go play some Fortnite tonight? What do you want to do? No, I want to play Con. Good grief. Yeah. Gosh, go play Cowboys and Indians. Big Chief. What a... Goodness. Poor Johnson.

Wow. I agree, Josh. That's some really good advice. I think we vetted that out very well. Let's move on. Sorry, Ty. Ty. Hit me up. HMU. Whatever that means. DM me. HMU. DM me on the Insta. Oh, jeez.

Let's see. Josh is very conflicted. Josh is cooling down over there. We need to... We've got into a sweat right there. I don't know. I just don't get it. This new age woke environment is just crushing Josh. I know. I can't handle it. Freak.

I saw your profile. You're kind of cute.

Send me some more pics. Yeah. Swipe left, please. Okay. Don't be catfishing me. Don't you catfish me. All right. Do bucks rut... Jay Obre, sorry. Do bucks rut in the same spot every year. Wyatt, you've really scouted the rut heavy. I've scouted the rut fairly heavy, but... It was your job for 10 years. I would say for the most part, yes. I do think that sometimes weather conditions play into it as far as snow depth, things like that. But for the most part, I would say, yeah, if a wintering deer or a rutting deer will return to a very similar area every year. I find it with elk, too. Yeah. It feels like I would... We hunted specific bulls, and we would wait for them to come in to a specific area that you could kill them in, whether it be a state line, whether it be an open burn versus thick stuff, whatever. But I'm with Wyatt. I think they do rut.

Now, they might make a loop, and sometimes we always call them straight lining bucks. Here's a random rut crossing in front of the headlights. It happens pretty regular in November. And you're like, where did he come from, and where is he going? And at some point, he will have kind of a resting place if there's a lot of does. But then sometimes, some of those desert units, he does have to walk a lot. We had a buck in the Arizona desert. And remember, do you remember those hooves when you turn them upside down? He had open sores. Like, he had worn his... A hole right through the pad. I still have those. And it was pink around the edge. It was so sensitive. And when you would push on him, you could just... I mean, he was dead. Yeah. But I felt like I was hurting him. You know what I mean? Because you could just imagine if it was your foot.

And so, anyways, I think they do walk a lot when there's low doe densities, and they're rutting. And they'll come for miles around, and they're going to keep going for miles. But then there's places that they do just show up, and this is where he ruts, and he's got plenty. He doesn't need to go much more than five miles square or something like that. Is that what you're saying, Wyatt? Kind of? Yeah. That's exactly what I'm saying. Anybody else have a different... Or a little something to add? It may not be where they winter, but like a stay over place just for two, three weeks in November. Yeah. Like, I've seen same bucks, same place a year or two in a row. But I know they don't winter there. So, they may... Yeah. I think they're saying generally... So, where they winter and where they ruts. As long as there's good numbers of does and whatever.

You know, desert deer could be totally different. Do you think there's more variation in rut location as opposed to winter location? You know, like maybe they'll go to winter in the same place, but rut is kind of wherever they find the does. Rut is weather dependent. I could see that. I've seen it where you'll see bucks. And it's not a long ways. When you say same area, I mean, you're talking five miles. Five miles. Right. Five or six miles where if, let's say, there's a bunch of acorns that year or something. And I've seen it where there's deer that don't like live in acorns. And they come down and they'll hit an oak band or something that's got some acorns. And does hang up there. And then the bucks start to rut. I've seen bucks stay and hang out there because that's where the does are. Yeah.

When normally there's like, say, another level lower, another bench lower that if they get down there and there's a lot of snow there, there's no acorns there or something, there's no does there essentially. Then they'll push down to the next level just to find the does. But I've seen that where they're in a similar area. But, yeah, it is like Wyatt's saying there is some weather factors that could keep one. But it's not like they're rutting on the north end of the unit this year and the south end of a unit the next year. Yes. Nothing like that. That's the way I feel too. When you were with the division and did a lot of those collar studies, you know, a lot of the same deer had very similar habits, right? Oh, they walked the same paths summer, winter. I mean, you know, spring and fall and time frame, too. It's usually within days. Yeah. Most of the time.

I like it. I agree with everything that's been said. Anybody else have anything to add? Okay. Okay.

Fifteen residents. B. Rad. Rad Hugh says, 15 resident deer points. He's talking Utah here. Would you rather do a Bookcliffs rifle or Vernon rifle?

It's a tough one. Boy, yeah. Both are very, very similar. You know, I hear great numbers in the book, great numbers of deer in the Bookcliffs right now. And it's definitely been, with the lower tag numbers, been producing better bucks than it has been. Vernon's been kind of consistent. I mean, both of them are 160 to 170 type bucks with potential for better, though. I mean, you're going to look over a lot of those, that caliber of buck before you find something better, in my opinion. Books has always been, in my opinion, like, I would say a little bit easier to hunt and then higher numbers. Eat no matter what, but this point in history feels like quality is a little better than it has been, not better than Vernon. Just better than the books has been, and maybe numbers slightly better than it has been. Is that another character? Is that what you feel? Yeah. Do you feel?

I think there has always been some pretty remote country there on the Bookcliffs. Yeah. A lot of stuff down there on the south end. Yeah. Even the big wilderness area there, too, that's a little bit tougher to access or get into. A surprise buck might come out of the Bookcliffs more so than off the Vernon. Maybe. But Vernon, on average, over the course of the last 20 years, would you guys say has the off potential to produce a next-level giant in comparison? Yeah, I would say Vernon's probably, over the last couple years or last decade or whatever, produced more next-level type deer consistently than the books. There's a lot more competition for feed and space and everything. I mean, you've got elk, bison, deer, everything. But you don't have guys that finish a Bookcliffs hunt and not be somewhat satisfied. People like to see deer. They like to have fun.

And the books, you're going to see deer and you're going to have fun on the books. You know? And maybe you could say that about Vernon, too. But I feel like people go to the Vernon with fairly high expectations and come away not dissatisfied but not fully satisfied. I don't know. Yeah, it's a giant unit with a lot of desolate country in between. And sometimes there's bigger deer found so low in the desert. Seems like a real mental unit. Yeah. A lot of guys have told me that. Like, man, it was, you know, hadn't seen the deer in two weeks and then there he is kind of a thing. I think this also goes into play where we were talking about people, it's easy to be at the office and say, I want a giant and talk giant and always say that I want big and I'm going to hold out for big. But then when it comes right down to it, when people see a 170 buck or whatever, 165, 175, they're happy.

People like seeing good, solid. Even finding mature bucks this day and age is somewhat of a challenge, it feels like. You know what I mean? And so when you do see them, you're like, man, kind of like when we were down there in New Mexico on the Adams hunt last year. And, you know, we spot this buck that's deep forked and spindly. But we stopped all three trucks or whatever it was, right? And we're going to get video of this buck. Yeah, we all stopped talking like, oh! Yeah. And this thing's as big around as this pin right here. It was a pretty deer. It was a pretty deer. It's probably an amazing deer here next year. Maybe this year, but for sure next year. But we all stopped. We needed to figure out how to get video. It's one of the best bucks we had seen of the year. Right? Tell me I'm wrong. It's true. I mean, it stopped your heart for a sec. You were kind of half excited.

Maybe breathless would characterize Josh or Wyatt. Anyway. So for you three, if it were your 15 points, where would you put it? If you had to make a decision. And this is for rifle. This is the rifle. I can't remember. I'm not going to answer it. You guys answer it. So that's your one? Are you using your one pass? I don't know. You know that Colorado border does call my name a little bit. But it doesn't feel right for me to hunt the books. I just feel like it hasn't produced enough of the next level deer to really think that. I have to go to bed thinking, when I wake up in the morning, I might see an absolute monster. Like, that's the way kind of drives me a little bit. And I don't feel that with that. But I know there probably is that potential. And that Colorado border does call my name. Slightly. Okay, Wyatt. I would probably. You'd do Vernon. No question. Rifle hunt. Yeah, Vernon.

Yeah. And that's where I should be, too. But I don't want to answer it. Josh, go ahead. I would probably lean towards the Vernon. Just, I don't know. For that potential. Scouted it. And like you said, sometimes it seems like it's. What if it was archery or muzzle? It's hard to beat those early season hunts in the bookcliffs. There's just a lot of deer and it's fun. There. It goes back to back. You would have fun. And quite frankly, Wyatt, the last year or two, I think there's potential at seeing something cool. Yeah, next level. Devin has hunted it. Not deer, right? But for elk. Yeah, I don't know. What would you do? There were bucks all over that place when I was there. 2011? Did you have fun? I had a blast. It was over too soon. I'm telling you. Yes. And then, get this, opening day, right? The elk hunt and the deer hunt were the same. And we go out there and I'm like, where's everybody?

It was weird. Wow. I don't know. There was bucks everywhere. Were you on last year, the regulation cycle from the year prior? Or were you at a current? Because you know they do have a day difference. It's possible, Devin, it wasn't in season yet. It was 2011. It's possible it wasn't. Season was not on yet. I looked at my tag. It was that weird. When's the statute of limitations? I think it was seven years, isn't it? I don't know. Get a poaching reward permit from Devin in 2011. All right. Let's move forward. These are kind of, I mean. Here's, this one's a different one.

HoundCrazy underscore says, thoughts on hounds scaring away game when big game hunting season, or when big, hold on. Thoughts on hounds scaring away big game when big game hunting the same canyon. Yeah. This is being asked by who? A hound. A hound. A hound. A hound. A hound. Hound. And it is. There is that issue. Oh, yeah. I don't, I don't think, I guess my personal opinion is, I don't think that they're running deer out of the country and you'll never see that deer again type of stuff. I don't think that's happening. But I've seen it even just this summer. You can wound a deer and it comes back into water. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I, I, I know from experience, just glassing this summer, um, sitting there, glass, it was just starting to get perfect, glassing some elk. And all of a sudden, yeah, somebody, somebody started baying a bear somewhere.

And those, I mean, those elk all lifted their heads and they were, I mean, we were, they were a mile away and they all lifted their heads and just eased off into the trees because it was pretty crazy. I'm not, I mean, whatever. They were back there the next morning, but it was. The Mexican wolves they were worried about. Yeah. There was, there was, there was some, there was some concern there. So I don't know. It's hard. What I think is hard is to give everybody their own individual unique season. And do we support hound hunting? Absolutely. Yep. And so it's not, I think we got to just be tolerant. I also think if a guy's just out running to run and he's not, you know what I mean? Like you're just running your dogs to run them and you're not necessarily hunting or something like that. I don't, I guess maybe you yield to a guy that's, that has this special tag that you

get once every 15 or 20 years plus, you know what I mean? And maybe have some etiquette goes back to John. Maybe you have a little bit of etiquette. Now, when you let the dogs go, can you control them after that? It's tough. Right. And so there's just some give and take and understanding there. But to have a houndsman, there's been this, intentionally run through hunters because they just are looking for conflict. It feels like I don't think they are. Then, then I guess that would be tougher, but we absolutely support the houndsman and we, and you can't give a unique season for, for every single variety of hunter there is. So that you're going to have a, you're going to have a little work around there. What do you think? Why? I would agree. It's kind of along those lines. Yeah. Have you ever been messed up by hounds? I have been. And some of your best friends are houndsmen. Yep.

So it just kind of is what it is, right? Yeah. It is what it is. We all got to share the mountain somehow. Yeah. Yeah. I like, I like houndsmen. I wish they would kill more predators. Females. Why don't they want, why don't they kill the females? Kill, kill the females. They're like you. The same reason why you don't want to kill a doe. I can't bring myself to do it. So it's the same kind of thing. What are they going to chase if they kill them? Yep. Well, hopefully there's less to chase.

We're all about killing the predators, but I get it. And they're all about conserving and saying that, you know, it keeps populations healthy and that there's a healthy balance. And I think there's truth, some truth to all of it. They want a big old tom or a big old boar just like we want a big old buck. Yeah. It's true. Yep. All right. How many more do you want to do? Oh, we're about done. But have you got anything that we can finish her off on? How about, let's see. Let's find one specifically to Jason. No. No, there's several. Let's do that. Come on. Let's find one right here. You already used your pass, I believe. Yeah. When was my, I didn't. I actually answered the question. You said something about Colorado over here. I couldn't shut up. I was like, oh, yeah, my dog. I'd be on Vernon, but that place sucks. I kind of like Colorado. But, you know, Colorado sucks too. So.

I wish guys would have sent more strictly for Adam so that we could answer for him. I do wish that was the case.

Yeah, there we go. And Bryant 76 says, why does Jason not like killing 200-inch deer anymore? I haven't seen one for a bit from him. Oh. People are brutal. Yeah. Brutal. Yeah. A, it proves I don't poach. Because I'd have a few, all right?

B, I think in general. So, yeah, the last one I killed was in 2019. You know, 220 in Nevada. But then, since then, we all know about the story. I didn't get one that I shot at. Didn't even hurt him. And I have 14 explanations for that. We've had that, aired that on the podcast. So, it's not like it's been the only one that I've been in contact with. But I think in general, and this is something we can all chime in on, I just feel like times are tougher than they've ever been. So, I don't want to blame myself, but I can blame myself. But then, on top of that, I've hunted as hard or harder than I've ever hunted. But I think I'm also, I've had a mindset change personally. This is just me. But I'm trying to put myself in places that I have that chief experience. At some point in my life, again, before I die.

Or a possibility of putting my hands on something that literally takes your breath away. And so, then you're hunting these weirdest, the weirdest garbage places in the world. More so than what you, where you know you could kill. Or hunt, or even that has 200 inch potential when you're going for the absolute gold. Then you put yourself in weird places. And in my mind, and then there's places that we, and Wyatt and I talked about this a little bit. Like you, I don't want to call it romantic because this podcast has gone down a couple of those roads. But I fantasize about, where would I want to kill a chief type buck? I don't want to kill a chief type buck at the top of the Wyoming range. Like, that's not my place. You know what I mean? So, if I'm in the desert where there's less people and I've got cotton mouth and I haven't drank water for three hours. That means something to me.

You know what I mean? And so, then you're putting yourself out and you're not just, anyway, I don't know if that even makes sense. But there's less of them. Where's Colorado compared to where it once was? Right? So, as time's gone along, it feels like we're better at hunting. We're better hunters. We're better with information. And Game and Fish is better. And Josh, you could answer to this too a little bit. Just better at managing right to the line. Right to the wire of X amount of bucks per hundred does and X amount of average age class. And they're trying to offer more opportunity. And so, we're constantly in that battle of opportunity versus quality. So, I just feel like it's tougher than it's ever been. For those that don't know, tell us what, you know, the Chief level is. Well, I mean, Chief was 275. Wyatt scored it. Yeah. Yes. Phenomenal deal.

And that was a near that you killed in Arizona. Yeah. But, I mean, and that was back in the day. I'm just saying a 250 plus or something. Like, where can, it feels like none of them exist. And when they do, they're dead. But I'm just saying, like, where could a guy with a regular tag, not a governor tag, go potentially find one in the next 20 to 30 years? Because in 30 years, I'm dead for sure, especially with these white ones right here, these white monsters. Because you can only need so many prenatals. When you're 80, you're not supposed to take prenatals. So, I'm just saying, like, where are we going to have that kind of experience? Wyatt, you're thinking the same thing. Devin, Josh, John, we're all thinking the same thing. You want to have that experience. But anyway, so my, not expectations have changed, but just I'm willing to go without. That's what I was going to say.

You have to be willing to fail when you're doing. Yes. When you're in those kind of places. Yeah. I know I'm going to fail. Yeah. I already know I'm going to fail. And you guys know what I've scouted. Wyatt, you've been with me a bit. We're scouting together and stuff. Like, you know, there's just things you just keep working in weird places and trying and trying and trying. And then when I did find a buck that I wanted and I did snag his sheds, he's lying crap. He didn't even show back up. Right. So by the time you about getting figured out, you got, you do have, I know where he summered. I know where he wintered. And now he's dead. I didn't have the opportunity to make good on the knowledge that it took. You know what I mean? He just came of age. He threw a big set. Their next level mass, their next level weight and, and, and on the scale. And then you're like, okay, this is it.

This is the buck. You know, this is the buck. And then he doesn't show back up. So I don't know where to go with it after that. You know, and then we just failed against other hunters. Like there's a buck that lived last year. Right. And so, you know, he lived, you know, I don't know what to say. I suck. You know? So anyway. Find the other question on there. Well, no, I want you guys to add on to that. I think, I think with social media, we see the highlight reel. So we think that everybody out there is killing 200 inchers. There's a lot of them to go around and all that stuff. You have to sit back and think about what tags. We've already seen some giant bucks, some giant bulls coming out this year. What tags are killing those bulls? I'm not speaking any ill towards those tags. I'm just saying you start seeing those bucks. Statewide tags. Yeah.

Some statewide type tags, or you see, you know, outfitters that are posting pictures from the best units in each state. And, you know, that's where these tags are coming from. Those of us at this table, some of them were never even going to have a chance to get some of those type of tags. And most guys will get those tags and not kill those kind of bucks even. Like, it is legitimately hard to find. Right now, I think it may have been easier years and years and years ago. But now it's legitimately harder to kill those kind of bucks on the standard or types of tags that most guys get or the tags that we can get at this table. And do you think management plays into that versus five to ten years ago? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's every state. Every state for the most part. Do you think the states are better at managing for opportunity? Because that's what it feels like they all want. Yeah.

Oh, that's what a lot of them have gone to. Nevada is an exception. I mean, they're doing a buck-to-dow ratio of 30 to 35. Yeah. But we can't get those tags in those states. And when you can, you don't have it on the perfect year, which is one every four that throws that kind of buck. That's what I was just going to say. We've been dealing with droughts, winters. I mean, like, nothing has been on the deer side, it feels like, for years. Yeah. And you, and it's just because you haven't posted a picture of a 200-incher. They assume I'm not hunting him. Some of the videos and some of the pictures that you've sent us, and we're like, why are you passing that buck? Like, 99% of the dudes would have killed that buck, and it would have been a great buck. But then, like, we've all learned, Wyatt, you know, nothing's, everything's fair game.

When you post it on the gram, somebody saw your truck in some weird spot, and now you've given up that buck. And I think you said it best, Devin. You never post a live animal. Never have, I don't think. Why? What good is it going to do you? Yeah. But it's fun. Sorry, everybody. I don't provide you any cool content of live animals, but it doesn't do me any good. But it's so fun. It is. I should do better, but I've just seen it happen. Yeah. You know why I like doing it sometimes? Bad things happen too many times. Josh throws stuff up there, and we're like, Josh, what are you doing? Okay, stop. And it makes people just, it just makes, it makes people spend all day trying to figure out what you're doing. I love it. It's all about me. It's all about us. No, I just love it. Like, people, like, because you can post something that's so innocent,

and it'll, like, people spend all day trying to think about it or put something together or whatever. I want to be the guy you pass driving down the road, and whoever sees me is like, what is that guy doing out here? He's in a Prius. What is he doing? He's got a window mount. It's as epic on it. He must be lost. I want to be that guy.

What's your favorite scouting car, Josh? The Green Lantern? What is it? Yeah, it works good. Yeah, because most people don't know.

Well, so, Wyatt, maybe do you want to add on to it, like, what you've seen over the years, maybe availability or. Yeah, we just don't have the deer on the landscape. We want to have just these tight management strategies and, you know, drought, weather conditions, everything like that. Just the deer numbers aren't there. Even on these limited entry or more special tags, a 200-inch deer is tough to do, let alone on a general deer. I remember, so we're seeing a highlight of the Henrys, San Juan, Poncecon, Oak Creeks, for example, just in our state, right? So what does it take to get a tag like that and what is it going to cost you if you're not going to wait to draw that one tag in your lifetime?

What are you looking at paying? You know what I mean? $60,000 to $100,000? That's what I was going to say. $60,000 to $120,000. And who here at the table is going to do that? Cash. No. I think there's a different. Cash money. Cash money. Cash money. No. No, no. No, no. Cash money. No, no, no. So anyway, I just think that's telling you, when you have prices like that, in my mind, that directly correlates to how many are on the landscape or lack thereof. The demand is off the charts, you know? Yep. But anyways, guys that are killing 200-inchers on generals, you have all my respect in the world if you're doing it legitimately, and there are guys, but they're not killing them each and every year either. So I don't know what else to say. I've killed more in my fair share, and the Lord's probably saying, you're going to hang her up soon, boss. You've killed your allotment.

So that's the perfect segue to the last question of this podcast. Donkey Hopper Dropper wants to know. Donkey Hopper Dropper? I like that. Show me this drop buck we're talking about. He wants to know exactly how many 200-inch bucks Jason has killed. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, Wyatt's got to score him. He's the official scorer. I scored a few of them for sure. I think it's a good follow-up to someone throwing a little shade that you haven't killed in quite a while. Put him in our place. Do you know exactly? No, I don't know exactly. You don't know exactly? I don't know. It would be probably 23 or 24 of them or something. But so there was times. It goes back to. I don't even. I don't even. We might edit that out. I don't even really want to talk about that necessarily. Yeah. So, you know, I hunted Mexico. We had a great time.

We got, you know, when I went to Mexico, it's kind of follows into what we decided to do. I hunted it with Marvin, the late Marvin James. And we had a lease. And when we passed a deer, we knew we would see it the next year. You know what I mean? It was all low fence. There's not even a high fence in the nearest 60 miles. But we could control the variables that we could control. Couldn't control the weather. Couldn't control the rain. But over the course of time, we would have our chances. And so I killed a few of them there. I don't remember how many. But, you know, three or four of them or something. You know, and then same thing. We would hunt places we knew. So I'd hunt them, you know, with landowner tags or draw tags. I killed several on the general. Or got really lucky in Colorado when Colorado was good. You know what I mean? When Colorado was good.

And, you know, and so just made sure I was there each year and killed one in Idaho. And, you know, anyway, in a number of states. But I think generally going to places that you know. Going to places that you can hunt multiple times. And doing it at the right era. And I remember the guys I looked up to. We've talked about these guys. We named them the other day. Wyatt or. Yeah. We named these guys that would tell me the heyday's over. I hunted in the heyday. You were born in the wrong era. And I would be like. And I told them. I remember specifically. This one guy specifically. So there are deer dying of old age somewhere. And I just need to find where they're dying of old age. And so, you know, that started up the desert. And all of that for me in my mind. And then the history. Knowing that there's these genetics. And even though it's the desert and it's arid. It has this potential.

Because there's history. You know kills. Specific kills. And bucks that were entered in the book. Or whatever. And then you start going. Okay. Then once you have that knowledge base. And then you have the conviction that they're there. Then it keeps you going. And then when the wet years come. You're standing there. And you take advantage of it. But they told me the heyday was over. Then the heyday for me in my era came. And then now I'm telling everybody and y'all. The heyday is over. And then the new generation's coming in. And being like. Well, we'll pick up the torch. And we're going to show you that there's deer dying of old age somewhere. And. But I feel like tags are harder than ever to come by. That's harder than ever to hunt year after year in the same places. Draws are tougher than they've ever been. The cash money required to circumvent the draw is higher than ever.

And all of these things. And so it just. You know, I don't want to paint a picture of doom and gloom. Because there's good things to be having. I was talking to a guy. Some of these archery and stuff like this in Idaho. Reminds you that there are things you can do. There's always going to be something. Somewhere to hunt old deer that are dying of old age. But it does take next level dedication. Chime in. What do you guys think? You guys. You guys are all part of this. Like you've. You've hunted with me. And. And we've all hunted together. And you've all been part of the process of helping others get tags. Wyatt. And license app. And things like that. And you've guided. You guys have guided and killed big deer yourselves. So.

Multiple big deer. What are you. What's your thoughts as well? I agree. You know. We've probably seen the heyday of our lifetime. I hope not. I mean. I keep hoping it's going to get better. And be a. You know. 2010 to 2015. 2016.

Type. Type years again. Even up into. You know. 2019 was a phenomenal year. That was kind of. The last of what I thought was a really phenomenal year for mule deer. Which was the last year I killed a big deer. On a draw tag. Yeah. Out of Vegas. But. 2019 was next level. But we did have some. A lull right between that. Right before that. Yeah. And then we've had a couple of decent years that. You know. Since then. But not. Yeah. Like prior. Not like a 2016 in Nevada. Yeah. Or a 2019. Or a 2017 in Utah. Feels like. Wasn't 2017. Next level. Yeah. That's good. Is that the year we both killed deer? Wasn't it? Was that? Same year? Yeah. What were they again? Remind me. His was 230 something. Wasn't it? Yeah. 234.

204 or something. You both killed them the same year? General units? General. Yours was general? General. How. But. Awesome. Stuff. And so. How. Was that your last 200? Why? Why? Why are you killing more 200s? I love. I'm going to flip this question. I would like to know Devin. When would your last 200 was? And why you haven't killed one since?

Well that's what I was going to say. Is it's okay not to kill one for four years. If that's the bar you set. Yeah. And if you're going to stick to that. It's. Yeah. The rarity of tags. Plus finding a buck of that quality. And killing him. And then getting him on the ground. In a general season. Or not. Even a regular draw season. Just a regular season. The tags I get. Pretty well generals. You know. Yeah. But. And I could say. I should have let. Mid 80s bucks go. You can't kill 200s. If you're killing one 90s. Or whatever. I think you're really good at hunting places you know. As often as you can. So like in Nevada. You have places you know. Right. And you're concentrating on those. You would go to new areas too. Yeah. But I feel like even the general in Utah. There's places you know. Versus places I know. Versus places Josh knows. Right. And you're doing what we're doing.

You're hunting places you know. And I probably won't kill a general deer for. Who knows how many years. 10. It could be. But a 10 year project. Right. Like I look at some of this stuff. It could be. And I'm okay with that. If that's. You know. Okay. Wyatt and I talked too the other day. Like I look at some of this stuff. As a 5 to 10 year plan. And then. And can you imagine. If you added up all the gas. Mileage. Wear and tear. Yeah. Maybe. The front end on DW. After we got done with it. You know what I mean. Okay. So Wyatt. When was your last 200. And why. Do you feel like. Mine was less than 300 days ago. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say. That's true. That's right. That's not even fair. And it was 220. It was 220. Wyatt's a regular consistent smash and grab. Giants. I reset the calendar. So they can't ask. Poacher comes to mind. Other than we absolutely know he didn't.

But it took me 21 years to draw that tag. So very. You attribute it to a special draw tag. I think also Wyatt. You're good at picking the right year to use those 21 points. You had. You had thought about that. I would say you thought about that no less than five times a day. For the prior 150 days a minimum. To have applied. Tell me I'm wrong. You're 100% right. It was on my mind all the time. Correct. And you were judging what has been killed. That it was off the radar. And that it hadn't had a good year in X amount of years. So you were judging in your mind. The age class has to be there. When the water's there. I'm there. Yeah. It was a lot of homework and research. And just to make up my mind. It was a unit that I was really familiar with. But I had kind of written it off for a handful of years too. And so the year that it makes the comeback. You were there.

I was fortunate to be there. So lucky I had the points to go that year. And good friends to help me kill a great buck. Yeah. So how are you going to say it's time to go? You go. You go. Yeah. And that's to attribute to like how Wyatt is. Yeah. Why it's very calculated. Very calculated. Like I mean we all. Like we have two eggs. Yeah. They're over medium. Between over easy and over medium. Okay. Yeah. And I think that's something. I have a wheat toast and I show up at the office at 629. Yep. I think that's something that people need to do. Like you kind of have to be like that in today's era. Yeah. Like you have to be kind of calculated to figure out what you're doing. You can't. I think you. I mean you get the. And Wyatt's connected. He. Yeah. You know I think he's paying attention to. You know. But being connected you have this feeling of the age class. And the potential.

And we know that nobody's paying attention here. The forgotten stuff. There's always forgotten stuff. Yep. All right Josh. When was your last two hundo? And when are you going to kill another one? Or what are you doing? What are you doing about it? I don't know. It was. Yeah.

2018. Bad year. For the most part.

But it was. Just yeah. General season. I don't know. You just have to try and get. As many tags and be out there as much as you can. Yeah. I guess is the thing. There's. It's hard to get these special tags. And you can't even plan on it. In a way. So you kind of have to. I'd say. Do you just. Apply. And hunt. As much as your budget will let you. As much as your family will let you. You know. As much as you can. And where you can. And stuff that makes sense. And try and do like Wyatt is doing. And think out of the box on some things. And sometimes you just have to. Just be somewhere. You know. You might. You might. It might not be a great year. Or whatever. You almost have to be. Just be there on the bad years. To make sure you're there on the good years. Sometimes. I like this law of averages. Some of the guys that are successful. That I know of.

Let's just call them consistently successful. It's not every year. But they take the good with the bad. And they stick with it. That's what I was telling. Like Wyatt. We were out in the hills. And I was like. My problem. If. Like if I could identify a problem that I have. Jason has. Is I'll. I like. I'll. I like to learn new areas. So it's okay to jump around in Colorado. Because I'm not. Hunting the same bucks. I'm not pre-scouting. Or anything like that. I'm hunting the rut. Third season. Winter range. Whatever. And so. But on generals. I should be hunting the same. General. As often as possible. The same stuff. And take the good with the bad. When they're bad. You're scouting for the next year. When they're good. You're killing the bucks you find. But even. Colorado. I think the same kind of thing. The guys that are doing the best over there.

The guys that are taking the good with the bad. Just hunting the unit. This is my unit. I know it better than anybody. And I'm going to be here. They know where they're going opening day. Before they even get there usually. Yeah. I'm going to have this tag. I'm going to be there. Yeah.

Truth to that. Hey John. Are we missing anything that makes you successful? No. I don't think so. Or hunters in general. And I guess I can bring this up. But I mean. Not everybody here has killed the 200 incher. I haven't killed the 200 incher. Yeah. You know. My biggest deer is 191. And you know. I'm still hoping for the 200 incher. But yeah. And I think. I also like. You know. I passed my hunter safety at 28. You know. Didn't start. So maybe some of you out there. That start late. You know. It's. Start late. You get into it anyway. Whatever. Start whenever. Yeah. So. But. Yeah. So. I haven't got my. You know. Fill of 175 incher yet. I guess. You know. You'd smash one every time. It's standing in front of you. Just. Man. Something. Something gets me excited. You know. But. But. Like. The last two years in Colorado. You get some extra cheaters and stuff. I did. Basil tang. I did.

Hold out until the last day. You know. Yes. Hold out until the last day. And then. Get excited about it here. And it's like. Yeah. Let's. Let's fill the freezer. So. Yeah. I like it. Cash. We missing anything? No. I think. I mean. Obviously. You guys are older than me. And Logan. And whatever. But. I think a lot of kids. Like my age. They get. They get this feeling. That they're. They're never going to see a heyday. And so. They take. They're like. There's. They're like John. There's a 175. They're like. I'm smashing that thing. I might not see another one all year. You know. And so. And I think a lot of kids. That are younger. Need to know like. It's okay. Like. Get your fill. And then. Go for bigger and better. And then. Learn how to pass them. Like. I think that's. Something for me. This year is. This year. For me. I feel like is a. It's going to be a learning year.

Of learning how to pass. Bucks that I in the past. Would have smashed. And so. That is what. That's kind of my goal for the year. Is to learn how to pass bucks. That I should pass. So. That's kind of what. That's awesome. I'm looking forward to. Yeah. So. And I will say. I probably made a mistake. And passed. Some deer early on. In that hunt. Last year. For mine. That. Would have been a lot bigger. Yeah. Yeah. But. I don't know that it was a mistake. You could have. You could have saw an absolute giant. On the last day. Yeah. And I have no regrets. And you learn more on that hunt. That you would have smashed on opening day. Yeah. Learned a lot more. Learned country. Learned yourself. Prepping for next year. So Cash. You've been scouting a lot. Like you're prepping for next year. Yeah. I've. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's a unit I haven't. It's a new season on a new unit. That I'm hunting. And.

It's something like. If I don't kill a deer. If it doesn't work out. I'm fine with that. Yeah. Because I'm learning for future years. When I can hopefully have. The tag on there that I want. And. And hopefully make good on that. So. I'm okay to not kill a deer this year. Yeah. Because I have other tags too. And that's what. Like Josh said. Have tags. Get the tags you can afford. And what you can do. And make the best of. Of every situation. I feel like this is the podcast of. Promises and admission.

Renewal. A renewal.

Right. What. What are you going to do. To do better. I'm going to go learn my love languages. All this therapy session. We've been. I don't get home. I'm going to be out there mowing his lawn. He's going to love you forever. Then he'll give me a gift. And I'll re-gift it to Josh. And then. And then he's going to give you. Pat Josh on the back. He's going to give you a little. Big old hug. He's going to give you a little. A little affirmation. We're all going to buy Josh. A piece of hunting gear. Here's a porcupine pelt. We're going to buy zip ties for the sleeping bags. Make sure that everybody's got a zipped up sleeping bag. Zip tie your zipper every night. I'll reveal a secret. I'm going to be on a cot. Whoa. There you go. A lightweight. So good luck guys. Got a little elevation. Lightweight. Are you buying it when you get there? Are you flying up with it? Sacrifice a little weight.

Oh that's funny. For comfort. It's a five pounder. No kidding. That's not bad. All right. So. He's bringing the tent cot. Put inside the tent. I wish. That'd be great. I talked a little bit for you. But why don't you give us what you think on mule deer. Real quick. As a whole. I think you guys nailed it. It's hard right now. It's hard right now. But I think people just need to remember like.

Better days are probably going to come. You know what I mean? Hopefully. I think too. I really do. We forget how bad the drought was in some of these desert areas. And then all of a sudden that 2017 comes right Josh. And all of a sudden there was bucks everywhere. The division were heroes. That's how it happened. That's how. That's why some of those years were so good. Because. They got age. But they didn't look like they had age. Tag tip. Tags were low. It kind of snuck up and surprised everybody. And I could see that right now with the amount of bucks that we're seeing. I mean. Oh there's bucks. Bucks. Bucks. Yeah. There's piles of bucks. They're all young. The overall number of deer is way down. But it's in a resurgent. And if tags don't just all of a sudden blow out of the roof. And we kill them all right now. We could see some really good years in the next few.

That's what I'm thinking. I was telling Jason too. Like some of these areas I've spent a lot of time in. Even when I didn't have a tag. And like I've never seen this many fawns. Yeah. Yeah. I feel the same way. Ever. Like not even close. I feel the same way. I feel the same way. So I don't know. It's something to remember. It has everything to do with weather. Yeah. It's just. Exactly. You know. They needed a break. Yeah. So I don't know. I think there's ups and downs and everything. But when the up years hit then you need to be prepped. And your down year knowledge. You've done your scouting. The knowledge you learn from your down years is going to carry over to that. And it's going to be like. You don't even realize how much that's worth on a good year. Right. But. Okay. And we hunt for ourselves. Right. So I'm not answering to anybody.

Like if I don't want to kill a buck I'm not going to kill a buck. Like you know what I mean. It's like we hunt for us. You know. Not necessarily for Instagram or the magazine or whatever. Although it is nice to learn tons of units to help our members. And we want to help them as much as we can. I love learning new stuff. And everywhere. Except for some states I guess. California. Something. All right. Do we have anything else? Can we please let this end? It's an hour and 55 minutes. Okay. Are we good? No. We probably should stop. I'll probably start offending more people. Probably good. Did you have another offensive thought? Do you have anything about Beaver today? No. Beaver County. You're going to let it lay low? I think you let loose pretty good earlier. Be a man. Josh. I feel like. I know. I know for a fact your wife made the first move though.

So you can't tell any of us to be the man. Oh. No. No. I went to Beaver County. I don't know. I feel like they've shunned me slightly just because of you a little bit. It's tense. I had to scrape the Epic sticker off my truck so I'd stop getting stuff thrown at me. Yeah. Things are just a little different there now. You're going to be better off.

Oh, jeez. Actually, Beaver County, they produce some of the hardest hunters there is. I'm not going to lie. Leave everybody with that. All right. Okay. All right, everybody. Go get you some tags and let's make the best out of 2024. Let's face it. If your goal is to kill big stuff, you need to draw quality tags. Quality tags are typically hard to draw. To increase your odds of drawing good tags, you need to apply in multiple states. That's where an Epic Outdoors membership can help. For only $150 a year, you get access to our consultants, our online tools, and to Epic approved outfitters and members only optics discounts. With unlimited access to our team of consultants and access to the Epic Outdoors magazines, applying in multiple states is easy. No more worrying if you're applying for the best areas. No more applying for a unit where there has been a die off.

And no more missing opportunities where you could be in the field and not sitting at home. Go online at epicoutdoors.com or call us today at 435-263-0777 to find out how you can become a member today. Kuyu is the most uncompromising camo on the market. Their new Guide Pro Series is the toughest, most comfortable camo you will ever own. Check out their new additions and shop men and women's camo now at kuyu.com. That's K-U-I-U dot com. Kennetrek makes boots for every hunt. Whether you're hunting sheep in the high, rocky altitudes or low-crawling sagebrush for those desert muleys, Kennetrek has you covered. Check out their world-class Mountain Extreme line and their brand new Bridger High boots at Kennetrek.com. K-E-N-E-T-R-E-K dot com. Applying for tags in multiple western states can be time-consuming. At Epic Outdoors, we have you covered.

Whether you want to expand your hunting portfolio or simply ensure that you never miss a deadline again, the Epic Outdoors License Application Service is exactly what you need. It's like having the best CPAs in the finance world do your taxes. Let the best hunting application gurus in the world do your tag applications. You'll never miss a deadline. You'll never apply for the wrong unit. And you'll never apply for a unit that's having a die-off. Your time is valuable. We do the work. You draw the tags. Epic Outdoors License App. 435-263-0777 With fierce rifles, every detail matters.

They are hands down one of the best rifle manufacturers in the industry and they never seem to stop making new innovations. If you want to get serious about your long-range shooting, call us to talk over your options for your next fierce rifle. Epic Outdoors is an official fierce rifle dealer. Our consultants know their whole line of rifles inside and out. 435-263-0777 Epic Optics is an authorized dealer for Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, Vortex, Leopold, Kawa, Sig Sauer, and more. Here at Epic Optics, we are committed to getting you the best deal for the glass that fits your needs. Go to epicoptics.com or call in to speak with our consultants who will fit you with the perfect optics for your next hunt. 435-263-0777 If you're looking for your next hunting property, look no further than St. James. St. James are the experts at all sporting properties across the West.

Their team of agents will spend the time getting to know you personally and find out which property out of the hundreds they have listed is perfect for you. If you've always wanted a property where you could hunt and fish, go online to stjamessportingproperties.com or give them a call at 855-711-7577 to learn more. Red Rock Precision Rifles are at the pinnacle of custom rifles. They make no compromises in terms of quality, accuracy, and reliability. They will build the perfect rifle for you in both feel and performance. Epic Outdoors is an official Red Rock dealer. Call us to talk over your options for your next Red Rock rifle or go to redrockprecision.com to learn more. Vortex makes optics for every occasion. Whether you're a long-range shooter dialing in that perfect shot or an archery hunter in need of an easy-to-carry optic without sacrificing quality, Vortex has you covered.

Head over to epicoptics.com or call us to learn more about your Vortex options today at 435-263-0777. From top-of-the-line hunting blinds to game calls that can't be beat, GSM Outdoors has you covered for whatever outdoor equipment you need. For all of their products, head over to gsmoutdoors.com to learn more. Thompson Long Range has perfected the art of simple, affordable long-range shooting. If you don't want to calculate ballistics or adjust your turrets before making a shot, a Thompson Long Range system is for you. Simply range, place the hash mark for that distance on the animal, and pull the trigger. They make top-quality rifles and host a shooting school that will leave you confident in making shots out to 1,000 yards. Visit ThompsonLongRange.com to learn more about purchasing your next rifle or booking your next shooting school experience.

The crew at Epic Outdoors trust Stealth Cam trail cameras to get us through the scouting season. Stealth Cam is the leading trail camera brand because they never stop innovating. Check out their brand new line of trail cameras, including the Revolver 360-degree camera, at StealthCam.com. Epic Outdoors is an official Stealth Cam dealer. Call us to order yours today at 435-263-0777. PhoneScope changed the game with their digiscoping innovations and have remained the top phone-to-optic adapter on the market. Check out the incredible new Carbon Pro PhoneScope now at PhoneScope.com. P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P-E.com. Outdoor Edge is the knife that we all use here at Epic Outdoors. Whether it's a replaceable blade or fixed blade, you will not be disappointed with your Outdoor Edge knife. Head over to OutdoorEdge.com and check out their brand new Razer VX knife today.

Epic Outdoors is proud to be an official Zeiss dealer and optics partner. When it comes to top-tier quality, Zeiss has been a leader in the industry for generations. If you're in the market for new optics, give us a call for unbelievable deals on Zeiss products. Giving you the highest quality and durability out there without breaking the bank is what makes Zeiss so good. Check out our website, EpicOptics.com, or call us at 435-263-0777 to find out which Zeiss optic is perfect for you. Epic Outdoors is now an official CVA Muzzle Loader dealer. If you're in the market for a new Muzzle Loader, our staff can go over the different options that you should consider. CVA Muzzle Loaders are the go-to Muzzle Loader for Epic Outdoors and crew. We've definitely got our favorite setups for Western Big Game hunting in stock.

Call us today at 435-263-0777 to find out which CVA is perfect for your next hunt.