EP 326: Q&A Part 3, Adams Dall Sheep, Caribou and Wolverine Experience and an Alaskan Moose Hunt Update

You're listening to the Epic Outdoors podcast. Check us out at epicoutdoors.com.

Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, finally in the office, been out hunting, got him right here in the podcast room. Bronson, say hey. How's it been going? I've listened to a few podcasts in the last few weeks since I've... I've been traveling. What'd you think? Any belly laughs? Well, I was... Yeah, I was taking advantage of them a few with different ways. Okay, good. I just want to know what your love language is. I didn't give... What's your love language? Because we never got to vet that out because you weren't here. Physical touch. Oh, boy. You probably ought to bring your own tent. You're going to be out there with Brad. By the way, I have some complaints about chewing gum, but today I'm chewing nerds.

There's nothing like nerds. Did you bring in an extra box for me? I just crushed two boxes right there so I could be on my best behavior. But hey, they're gone. Now, there's no more smacking. I want to know... I didn't read anywhere where I signed over power of attorney for voting authority and things like that while I was gone. Nobody voted. Nobody voted. Well, you guys... Yeah, you nominated me for... For what? I don't remember now. What was it? It's been too long. I have no recollection either. What was it? What was it? I wonder what we did. I do not recall. I do know that my... Isn't that like a Clinton saying? It's Hillary Clinton. Yeah. I do not recall. Really? Man, got an amazing memory in other areas. Yeah. Well, you know what? It's been a while. It's been a lot of miles since I got home. Since you ate the nerds, I might do this honey stinger, energy chew.

Of course, this comes from our buddy, Dustin Woodward. Those, for me, they're not a casual candy. When you're trekking, I had those in NWT on my hunt. You had the honey stinger, energy chews? Both the wafers and the chews. When you're really pounding it and you need a boost, they're good. But when you're just like, I need something sweet after dinner and you eat them out in the house and eat them... No. You're not doing an energy chew. I tried them and they just don't. They don't... For me, they don't do it. I'd rather have candy. Real candy. But coming at you here from our little Backpack Logistics. At Backpack Logistics on Instagram, I guess this is just a little surprise box. John, those would be good for like in the old goo days. No. That's not... That's what you use those. Yes, it is. Dude. 100%. Nothing replaced that goo. That was... That was... That was... What do you call it?

It's kind of like an artificial material. What is it? Like a... Synthetic. That's a synthetic energy. Come on. It is not. To me, that flask is a synthetic energy. It's like whatever. Just glucose and mix some caffeine and a bunch of... You know, sucrose and a bunch of coases. Whatever that goo... The goo. The energy goo. What was it? I don't know. It was energy goo. I think it was goo brand. It's not FDA approved. No way. Come on. No way. I crushed those on this hunt too. I took them. It doesn't mean they're good for you. Or approved by the government who cares about you. And wants your taxes. But I'm also someone that hasn't had a monster now in almost about three months. Well, you need one. No, I don't. Yeah, you do. I'm feeling good. You look a little peaked. You look a little peaked. My hair's not growing back. I will say that's not good. How about your fingernails? Oh, yeah.

I've had to cut them twice as often. Okay. Oh, boy. Because of the honey stinger? No way. No way. I don't know. But anyway, in this little box, and I don't know, we got a little peanut butter chocolate thing. We don't, you know, you know what I half expected from Dustin? What? Like ghost energy drink because not going to give us the real thing, the monster that we really care about. Yeah. Going to throw in a cheapie like ghost or something. But no, didn't do any of those. He must know they're not good for you. And then a little, Logie Bear, you're tenting it out. What have you been, here you go. Are you? Take this box and enjoy the whole box. Have you been tenting out? You might owe Whitworth your firstborn, but hey, whatever. Hey, that's okay. He would take it too. Oh, I got to take it. So what is it? He sells these boxes? No.

It looks like it's like a membership thing and he gives you a monthly. Here's a couple things for the office. No, really, it's actually for hunting. For food. Give you some ideas. You want to make it simple. Tell them how many days you're going to be gone and he'll send it to you. It's actually a pretty good idea. I just love it. Good assortment. I like to give him a lot of things. The number one key is an assortment of stuff because when you're gone for a week or two, you got to have an assortment. There's some stuff. You can't eat the same Quaker granola bar every day. I'm sorry. You can't do it. So if you want a bunch of free advertising, send us a $5 box of goodies and we'll throw you out $1,000 worth of shout outs. How about that? Huh? You guys in? Cash, you got anything to sell? Oh, yeah. Sell that used hat right there on your head. Oh, well, it's got some sweat rings in it.

Ooh, disgusting. Cheap loaf. What have you been sweating for? I think you've been kind of out there and about looking for something. I've been looking for stuff, specific stuff. Okay. We're going to talk about it later. Okay. When there's a happy ending, huh? Yeah. When there's a better ending than a starget. When there's a cut tag. Yes. Is that the hat we had to go looking for for a little while? No, it's the other one. Ooh. I lost one. You guys had projects? I lost a hat on the road. And then we ran around? No. It was the next day we went back and there was like a youth group that was walked up in there. We stopped and talked to them. Was it by the cattle guard that you were so familiar with? Nope. Not that one. Nope. Not the intimately known cattle guard. Wiped out your truck? No. Yeah. No, but- Was one of the kids wearing a flatty over there? No.

One of the kids was like, hey, we picked up a hat like that on the road down here. We put it in a bush. It's like head high. You'll see it on the way out. I was like, oh, perfect. Did you find it? Yeah, I got it. You did? Yeah, I wore it just last night. Wow. Or yesterday. Did you wash it first? No. They didn't touch it. Come on. They did something. I don't know. They did something. Hey, that's bro. Don't put that on my head. You get a bunch of boys out there in the hills. Come on. What do you think they did? Hey, I think they must have been at the end of the track because they'd straightened up. You know, at the first, they're the- Yeah. Oh, they were the collinquent boys. They were nice. They were changed. Yeah, they were troubled youth. They're the troubled youth. Troubled youth. Well, good. It's good to see that. They had some good leaders, though. That's great. That's good.

So, what do you, Bronson, so before, I want to know your story from up north in Canada, but before we do, I'm afraid these kids might get on a plane.

In Alaska, which one of them should we call and just kind of get the update on this hunt that they're going on? Which one's going to be the most interesting? Well, since they're not here and I got voted for while I was gone, I'm going to vote Wyatt. Okay. All right. Let's call WB. WB. Here we go. And let's- I don't know. Maybe he won't answer. He probably won't. We'll see. I'll put a $20 on the table. He doesn't answer. If he doesn't answer- I'll buy you guys lunch. No. No. If he doesn't answer, he's getting it. We're going to come up with a Wyatt story that is not authorized for the podcast. Not approved. That's right. And there's plenty of them. Okay. Here we go. I might have to turn it up just a little.

He's not going to answer. No. There's no way. Easiest 20 bucks I've ever made.

He is- I told you. He's such a cop-out. Hey, okay, now I'll bet you 20 bucks Pollock does pick up. Oh, yeah. All right. What the heck with it? We don't need Wyatt anyway. I'll say that.

Josh. This is what's funny. These guys are looking at each other laughing. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

So Wyatt screens our call. Easiest $40 I've ever made. What? Wyatt screened our call, so we had to call you. I made $20, and I said, Wyatt is who I want to call, but I'll bet he 20 bucks he doesn't pick up. And when he didn't, I said, try Josh. He will. Well, let me get him. They need to talk to me. Just put it on speaker. Let's see. You guys wouldn't- Hey, we're just wondering. We wanted to call you real quick. What's going on? Are you getting on a plane, or what's the scoop? Not yet. We're watching the mountains and clouds go by, hoping that they clear off. Are the clouds ripping by at 60 miles an hour? You got any? No. That's- I kind of wish they were. Maybe they'd blow away, but they're just hanging. Is it? So- It's only midday up there. Do you gotta- I mean, yeah. I mean, it's good. Yeah, it's good. It's one o'clock. Is it? All right. So tell us, Josh, you're in Anchorage.

You're hung up. Weather. You guys are headed out on a moose hunt. Just wanted to kind of get the feel for the vibe of how's Devin? I'm a little worried about the feller. I- You know, we kind of recorded- Devin's good. Is he? Devin's good. He's in a good spot? Wyatt's had some troubles. Really? That makes sense, because he totally screened our call. Yeah. Yeah. What's his problem? Give us some examples of his problems. I'm taking the black horn off of Wyatt's desk. Yeah. I noticed there was like three bottles. I'm over it.

Yeah. Tell Wyatt he lost two bottles per screen in our call. What? They said you lose two bottles of black horn for screening the call. I don't have my phone. He says he doesn't have my phone. Excuses, excuses. Answer me this, and I know that's not proper English. Answer me this. Has WB ever not had his phone on his body? I'm trying to keep my phone at 100%. And you're in the airport with plugs everywhere. I get it. Makes total sense. Yeah. We got you on speaker, Devin. Has there been a freak out yet? There's been one meltdown. It wasn't me or Josh. And then we got one story we can't tell you right now. It's going to happen. Well, what's the meltdown? What was Wyatt's meltdown? Let's get to the bottom of that, because every... I think it was a mixture of just people congestion, rain, what else? Well, didn't...

Now, I did see a picture of a guy snuggled up to Wyatt, and it proved that he was a physical touch guy. Yeah. But tell me about that. Tell me how that happened. That was me. Yeah. That was who? Yeah, it was Devin. That was me. Devin. What? It was? No. In the love suits yesterday. What do you mean? No, it didn't. There was a guy... On the plane. On the plane. Oh, that guy. Okay. When a guy was sleeping on Wyatt's shoulder. Yeah. A random... And Wyatt was smiling. And Wyatt smiled and took a selfie with the guy. Who is that guy? Who was that guy? It wasn't a selfie, because there was two people in the photo, and Josh took it. Oh. Who was that guy? It was Leslie Chow from The Hangover, International Criminal.

Okay. He even had a Palms Resort hat on. Oh, my God. Well, you guys were cuddled up tight. It was... Hey. You know? It was cute. It was a good start to the, you know... The tent spinning. Yeah. Expedition. But we did go, like... Wyatt was just kind of losing it for a minute. I even heard him say something about, I hate Alaska.

Wyatt says he hates tundra. And he loves Alaska. You can't hate tundra and want to go to Alaska all the time. Luckily, we borrowed Schaefer's truck last night, though, and he got to go slow roll the willows. We found a bull moose. So, he kind of... Back in the game now. Hey. If there's anybody that can slow roll the willows, it'd be Wyatt. Yeah. Yeah. We found a bull moose to try and ride. Yeah. Anyway, he was going to supposedly show us some beluga whales, but he wasn't his info. Really? How about the airboat? Is it back up and going? Did Wyatt try to conjure up an airboat? No, not yet. We did get a call yesterday, though, that said this hunt may involve a boat. So, we're trying to figure out who's captain, who's first mate. Who's Gilligan? That's what I'm going to know. Yeah. Exactly. It's Gilligan. Oh. Well, so, give us a quick update. What is it looking like for you guys?

You guys have been held over for, what, a day and a half now? Yeah. What tags do you got in your pocket? That's just, how many? I just have one. Really? I'm here to kill a moose and come home. That's not even like it. I mean, geez. What about packing out the other guys' moose? Well, we'll see how that goes when we get saved. Devin already claimed all the rear quarters on all three. He did. So, he already staked his claim to the moose. He did. Oh, that's because he's in Spartan shape, and he wants to show that he can do a bone-in quarter. He can do six bone-in hinds quarters on this. Is Wyatt getting in shape, jogging in place over there? He's doing lots of pacing back and forth. He doesn't sit very well. Is he doing stairs? Is it at least some stairs he's climbing? I know this. Wyatt has not missed an Instagram post of any sort. Guaranteed. No. No way. No.

Me and Devin are getting some steps in. Our rooms are upstairs, so we've got to walk upstairs. Wyatt just gets to sleep in the garage. So, he's not getting too much physical activity in. All right. Well, all right. So, you're a day and a half in. What's the forecast? Is it going to be you guys flying out here today? We're supposed to, but we're supposed to hear back in about 30 minutes on when that's going to be. But it'll be, I don't know, we can't even see the mountains here. Yesterday, it was windy as crap, so that's why they couldn't fly yesterday, but we could see pretty good. But now, it's kind of a storm. It's sucked in. And so, hopefully, hopefully today, if not tomorrow, it's supposed to be like tomorrow and Friday look like the two best days. But I think that's what he was hoping to get us into the lodge and out. Oh, you got. Bye, Ben. You went early for a reason. So, I mean.

That's Alaska. You got to slow your heart rate down. Yeah. Get there and wait. Yep. Basically. Yeah. And wait to come home, too, sometimes. Well, the good thing is you went plenty early, so we're good. Yeah, for sure. I mean, we can't even start hunting until Sunday, so that's what I said. It'd be, at least we're not cutting into hunting days, you know. I mean, we want to get up there, but at least we're not cutting into hunting days, so that's good. Makes it a little easier. Devin said, I teased you guys in the text, but you guys have actually taped your food that you're flying out. You've taped it shut, like the Oreos specifically. Like, stuff like that is not getting crushed in the hotel, right? Like, I was. Devin's definitely probably got the Oreos on the brain. He said that they're taped. It's sealed. Like, nobody's eating them in the hotel. Yeah. Well, let's see.

Devin may have just got an update. Let's see what he says.

You're still plugged up on our side. We're not going anywhere. What? As of now. As of now, it sounds like we're not going anywhere. That's live updates. Oh. Well. You might go get him an Oreo shake. Go to find a Dairy Queen tonight for Devin. Yeah. Poor little. Well, we did get three celebratory meals or treats for every moose we kill. We did? What? A pack of Oreos. Like a big, giant pack? Yeah. Well, I don't know. Like the three rows of Oreos. Okay. The main big pack. Not the little. What about the extra goo in the middle? Did you get the big ones? Double stuff? No, no, no. That's too much for those two. So. That sugar is driving crazy. We just got the regular Oreos and then we got some just regular old hard Chips Ahoy. Blue bag. Chips Ahoy. Oh my gosh. Those are disgusting. You got powdered milk? Yeah. You need to dip those in milk just so they don't break your teeth.

Both of those are bad options, I felt like. The red or chewy. That's what I said. The chewy. That's what I was going for. Redeem yourself. What's number three? What was your third? You just, I said what about the red ones and you thought I just was blaspheming somebody. I don't know. How about Honey Stinger Energy Chews on your third pack out? Yeah. I got some of those. Yeah. But I chose, I went with the Cosmic Brownies for my choice. Oh, disgusting. Those are disgusting. Also for you in that poll. Brownies, they've got preservatives up the wazoo and those things. Wax. Wax chocolate. I mean, whatever. It is. Nothing better. You and Shed Crazy. Well, I could see you guys. I would be scared. You're quite a two. If I was with you three, I'd be scared to shoot a moose that I'd have to eat one of those. Like, I don't want the treat. It's not big enough. It's not good. Do I have to eat it?

Hey, whatever. You guys get to do what you want. You get to make your own choices up there. That's right. Yeah. You don't have women and children telling you what to do. You're not at the office. No. I mean, dude, you're good. Life couldn't be better. Sure. Well. It's true. We'll look for updates from you. Did you tell them that you got the secret clothing packed? What's that? Oh, no. No. Well, I mean. So, Josh. Okay. Josh. You're not up. Take us off speakerphone. I'm not. No. They're trying to hook up a trailer. Oh. So, we're good. All right. So, I'm doing this Canadian whitetail hunt. And Josh. Josh was kind of hooked up last year with a heated vest. The battery stuff. Yes. The heated vest. And it worked. So, Josh just recently. Just texted me today. He's like, hey. These things are on sale. Go here. And I'm like, okay. And he's like, by the way, I brought one. Well, you know.

They're so. You know how you're worried about weight? I'm like, do the boys know you got that? That's an extra piece of gear that's not needed. Really. And how are you going to charge it? You're going to need a solar charger. And you're in Alaska. How often does solar work? Once every seven days. And if it does, are you charging your inReach and your cell phone? Or what are you charging? That's what I charge. You know, your electric books, Kindles, whatever else you brought. I'm good. I got them. I'm good. Toothbrush. Yeah. Your shaver. Electric shaver. So, anyway. Josh has taken his heated vest. When he pulls it out, the boys are going to go crazy. Yeah. They're going to want it. Because we've already been walking around. And you know how it is. It's just like chilly and damp. Chilly. Humid and cold. So, we're like coming from 90 degree dry weather. And it's like we're all.

I mean, we were walking around with coats on every day. Everybody else is walking around with t-shirts. Okay. Well. And as hairy as Devin is, he's going to double up. He's going to put it down. Yeah. Well. See, and I did the opposite before I went. See, I went and shaved off. I went and shaved off enough body hair. Josh. That's a tough guy. Yeah. I mean. Well. You don't want stuff. This short circuit. The white dry. You want body hair or you want a vest? I had. Body hair or vest. You choose. It was a handful. Okay. Okay. You were trying to say to weight. You got three pounds. Two-fifths. This is a family-friendly podcast, Josh. This is a family-friendly podcast. Okay. I'm sorry. I guess you guys left about the right time of the Garfield County Fair when they were shearing sheep and stuff. Well, they probably just got in line, huh?

All right. So, yeah. So, I did that. We're good. I just. You know how it is when you wear thermals for like 10 days in a row, thermals, and your body hair is all going the wrong direction. So, you thought that far in advance that you were worried about how the thermals are going to feel on your body? Absolutely. So, you shaved down. I'm prepared. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, the funny thing is. Do you have eyebrows? Exactly.

Eyebrows and a beard. I do have. I do keep above the neckline good. The funny thing is, is why it reminded Josh of the weight limit in the Super Cub. Remember that, Josh? When you. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Around camp, the night you think you're going to unveil this wazoo warm vest. Electric mess. Make sure you go out there, you know, and do this a couple of nights in advance so they're not suspecting it, but set it out there while you're blowing your water for your mountain house. So, they're just thinking you're filming dinner and all that, you know, and then film it on the tent as you walk out, but have the camera on those two's face. I don't want to see you. I do, too. I want to see their face. I do, too. They're going to be like, really? That's the only thing I want to see. Really? We have weight limits in the Super Cub and you brought that? Yes. That's what I want to see.

I will pay the $40 that I made at the start of this podcast. I'll pay you that if you capture their faces on film. They're going to lose it. That angry little man is going to lose it. Especially if something gets put off the plane. Hey, I'm overweight, guys. We've got to drop it. It happens to be like cookies. Wyatt, you're going to have to leave your cot.

What did Wyatt tell you the weight limit was? He told me 300 pounds, which is totally unfair. It's unfair because if it's 300 pounds, Devin's taking steaks. Devin's taking bone-in steaks. That little fella, to make up to 300, he's got a lot of gear. He can bring everything. He's got 150 pounds. Josh, you've got about 35 pounds. So 300 pounds of you. That's what I'm talking about. My pants are bigger. I've got an extra pound per pair of pounds because of the material that's in my pants compared to this. I guess that's why you shave. Now we know why you shave. You shave down. Besides the fact that it feels weird having thermals on. Jeez. Yeah. You're going to look like a swimmer in the Olympics when you get out of a tent up there. I was probably going to speedo, too, because that's saving weight. You're going to be all sleek, man. All right. I'm over this. All right.

So, hey, you're going to fly out tomorrow then, or what are you doing today? Probably. I don't know. We just got that text. Sounds like it's not good as of now. It sounds like it's really good over the mountain. We're going to be hunting, but it's all on this side. There's kind of like that bay that runs up between there and Anchorage, and it's kind of socked in there with fog. So, the wind's not really blowing. It's just you can't. I mean, we can't even see the mountains right here from here. Should be able to. Well, keep your powder dry. I don't know how you're doing that. Did you guys take a muzzleloader, either of you guys? No. No? No. No. Did Wyatt take a 7mm or whatever it is? Uh-huh. Yeah. Jeez. Seems a little light. Do all of you have your pistols, or did Wyatt leave his home? Did he bring it after all? No. He brought it. He brought it. Wow. He didn't bring it.

Does he know how to use it? Because there's nothing worse than a guy who does not use it. Has he ever shot it? I don't doubt it. Yeah. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. You brought your pistol, right? Me? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. He's saying, no, he didn't bring his pistol. What? Of course he did. He doesn't want anybody. The one place on the planet you would take that. He's worried about the government listening to the podcast. No, I have my pistol. Okay. Well, we're just thinking that's the only place you'd need it on the North American continent, and you better not have left it home. No, it's here. Okay. Aaron and them had to run one out of camp with all that bloody caribou meat a couple nights ago, so it got interesting, you said. Yeah. No kidding. I don't think shots were fired, but I may or may not be able to be. I may or may not know the whole full story yet. I've been through inReach and some of that. Anyway, kind of cryptic. Only heaven and Aaron know the truth. Well, and there's a couple other with them, but anyways. Yeah. All right. All right. Well, we wish you guys luck.

Can't do a podcast without having our right-hand men. Yeah. We're going to vote. We're going to ask you some questions today. We've got a new question reader guy, Paul. No offense, but I mean, we're going to do that. Good luck. We might answer questions on you guys' behalf like you did while I was gone.

Feel free. Feel free. Yeah. We'll answer from the shaved down, Paul. Yeah. Sign you up for stuff you didn't even know you were signed up for. You know what I would say and how I would answer. Yeah. Go ahead. It may or may not be podcast for it. Yeah, but I may not be able to verbalize it exactly. It might be blush. I don't know how I've balled. Okay. All right. Talk to you later, guy. I'm all for it. I'm all for it. He's gone. He's gone. Oh.

Oh. Good. Heck. All right, Bronson. I've been there before. But anyway. Let's do a little bit of a catch-up. You were up in Canada, Northwest Territories. Never. I've never hunted quite that early. I actually hadn't hunted NWT. I've been to BC a couple times, UConn a couple times, Alaska a bunch, but never made it to NWT, just haven't avoided it. I never have either. But their sheep season opens July 15th. Kind of nice. Yeah. And I mean, the caribou, we elected. I went with a buddy, a good buddy of mine, one of my guys, Wayne Brown, went up with me. And he had a caribou tag, wolf wolverine. I had, you know, sheep, caribou, wolf wolverine. We went the second time frame, and I extended it to a 15-day hunt so that we could have plenty of time to, you know, hunt a sheep, maybe hunt some caribou, whatever.

So it was the end of July through about the 10th or 12th of August, so the bull should be pretty much mostly grown out, velvet, of course. But anyway, it was an awesome trip. One thing about NWT is you don't need it. I never used a headlamp in three weeks. Yeah. Literally. Early like that. Not even like I wish I had one. Like I had one. Wayne and I both brought them. Never used one ever. Didn't need it. And part of it was because you're just that extra two or three weeks earlier. Like Alaska opens for sheep August 10th. Sometimes you have three or four hours of dark. It's monumental what happens in three weeks up there. Even the 15, 16 days we were out in the field, whatever it was. No, it was the difference. It was dramatic. Yep. And when it would get dark, when it would get light, even in the 16th. Because you're just going the other way.

After June 21st or whatever it is, you start going the other way. Yeah. But type of place where, you know, Arctic Red, they don't use helicopters. I mean, they're legal in NWT, but they don't use them. It's kind of been a longstanding kind of known thing. They just. A little bit of pride. Yeah. And they just. It's you in the mountain. You're coming here for the real experience. Drop you off. And it was awesome. We got dropped off. Sunny. Hot.

And you basically, it's you in the mountain. We, you know, there's not like, hey, we're dumping you on a pile of rams. There should be a good one right in that bunch right there. You're just. Go for it. Cross-country backpack trip. And it was awesome. Had a couple of days midway, a 24 and a 20-hour stint, you know, almost back to back in the tent. Yeah. And that's when it's nice to have some audio books or whatever like that. Did you? Did you have them? Wayne did. Yeah. Mine. Same. So I have them. I've had them on my phones. But you don't know how to access. For five years. No. But. And they're an audible. That audible app. I don't know. You guys. I've never even used. I don't. And some reason when I got my new phone, they were there, but they were not downloaded anymore. Oh, my gosh. Because like I could see the list of the books.

So your account shows that you've downloaded them at some point. Oh, I have. But not on that phone. I partially listened to the books on previous hunts. Yeah. And, you know, when you get a new phone and everything transfers, I hadn't been into audible. I can see the titles, but they weren't downloaded. I couldn't listen to my books. Jeez. So luckily, Wayne had a bunch. He'd been, you know, other places, you know, traveling, and he had a bunch. And they were awesome. A lot of World War II, you know, documentary type audio books. They were cool. You know, dropping the bombs on Japan. Jeez. It was really interesting. Very factual. But anyway, so that spent some time in the tent. But basically, on a 15-day hunt, you don't feel too bad when you've got two days shoot up with rain. You start to feel a pinch a little bit when you've got a 10-day hunt. How did you listen to him?

Did you use AirPods? Or were you just had them on speaker phone? He just put it on speaker. And then you both just kind of. Wayne and I shared a three-man tent. We took a three-man, him and I. We took one gun and one tent. He packed the tent. I packed the gun. Yeah. Perfect. You know, we had plenty of room in there for two guys and your gear. A two-man tent when you're cooped up for 24 hours, they're not two-man tents. No. Awesome, amazing country. They're one man and a little gear. That's right. Yep. All right. So along about day six, we had good weather again. It broke. You know, we'd covered 15 miles or 20 miles prior to that. You know, going in and out of drainages and checking for sheep. Seen a couple rams that were really pretty and long but not old enough. But day six, we saw a freaking giant caribou. Like one we would love to have killed. But we were deep.

And that's one thing they told us. Where we're putting you, you're not even going to be thinking about killing a caribou until you kill a sheep and get out of that country because there's nowhere to come get you. Like you're hiking from here to here and there's nowhere to pick you up in between. So don't think about shooting a caribou. And you're going to know that. And you guys had the opportunity. You rolled up on a freaking giant. Oh, he was big. He was like 400-something yards. He was a beautiful bull. Great bull. And another one just a little bit smaller. Jeez. I mean. So frustrating. And then like literally 30 minutes or an hour after that, we glassed up five rams. And a couple of them were kind of so-so. I mean, maybe right there legal but not like old legal. It didn't look like. Kept rounding this drainage.

And then as we looked back where we had under some bluffs glassed these two rams coming out of this cave. It's probably like a lick, a middle lick or something because they were coming out of some crack. And it was my ram. My ram I ended up killing. So that was the evening of day six. And we were wrapping around in another drainage and looked back a mile or so and saw them. And so we said, all right, we've got to get closer to those sheep in the morning. They look like what we're looking for. But you want to, you know, you want to know they're old enough, you know, nine, ten plus year old. That's, you know, even with the heavy winter, two winters in a row, two or three or four years ago. You know, their numbers aren't as high in a lot of places up there. But you still don't want to shoot.

It's not quite like Alaska where if it's legal, it dies, you know, in most places of Alaska right now. So we backtracked, set up camp. And, yeah, you know, below these sheep, you know, they fed up and over. We couldn't even see them that night. But it got dark and set up camp there. And the next morning proceeded. We had to cross a river like three minutes out of camp. And, you know, you have river crossing shoes. And, you know, you can stop, take your boots, socks off, take your pants off. So you're crossing shorts or whatever. Or that rock, I think I can jump across this thing. I think I can make it. And they're all slick, man. Moss under the water. And the guide and the packer, they just dropped down. They knew better. And started putting their boots on. Yeah. Taking them off. And Wayne and I, of course, were pacing the river. And we're like, you don't have a full pack anymore.

We've got a day pack pretty much. But it's the full pack, but it's not heavy. And Wayne walks up and goes, we can cross it there. And he's like, I said, I think we can. I said, try it. And there was this rock sticking out of the water. And you can see the top of it. But it didn't look bad. I went for it. I hit that thing. And it slipped so fast. Like, I couldn't. Every time. Even with anticipating that this might be slick. I went down. And I face planted straight into the river. Just 18 inches deep. Face plant. My binos on my chest was dripping. Everything. Yep. My pants, 100%. Everything went. Boots, 100%. And so then you're just flailing, getting out of this river. And I get over there. They're like, well, I get it. How'd you do? I said, hey. I looked back and laughed. And I said, you guys are doing the right thing over there. Yeah. And so you just stripped down.

Literally, I was in rain gear. I put my rain gear. That was my pants for the day. I wore rain gear pants. Yeah. You took off your wet pants. Here we go. I rained out my socks and all that. Because it would be terrible to be all day. And luckily, it ended up, you never know at first light if it's going to be a rainy day or not. And it can change it in two hours. But anyway, climbed that steep cow's face mountain. It took us a couple hours to get up on top. And cat and mouse around. Couldn't find them. Sweating in rain gear. Or really not. Because it was luckily early. Yeah. And I was still trying to draw out. I wanted to eat. But anyway, decided a big loop to try to get up on this ridge to look down in a hole that we thought they might have went to. And as we did that, we looked into a different hole that was on the front side. There they were. They're bedded right down in a cut. Wow.

Just them two. And we stocked in on them. Just like a classic. Got a lot of good video of the setup. And it was great. They were bedded down. Got up there. I mean, it was just like textbook. As soon as you're ready to shoot, you slide the gun up there. And the ram you want to shoot stands up. And, you know, quarters away. Looks away from you. And just basically, here's my armpit. I mean, it was literally. It's all on video. It's awesome. Shot him. And 10-year-old ram. Beautiful sheep. Awesome backdrop. I haven't killed many of my rams with their awesome background. This one had a really, really deep lot of depth to it. It was awesome. Yeah. Color. Yeah. So, great day. And took care of him. Got him back to camp that night. Got a bunch of creek rocks and built a fire and roasted him all up and ate a bunch of backstrops. Inside tenderloins. Just awesome. Ribs.

Roasted him for like three hours. They were amazing. Brought a bunch of body, abdomen fat with us to coat the rocks and get them all sizzly. It was amazing. That's the best. I want to say like the best meat I've ever had in my life. And I know we were only out a week. So, it's not like I was gone for 30 days and tasted meat for the first time. It was only seven days. Part of it has to be that fat of the sheep. It was amazing. Like you're not taking a desert. We never. All crusty desert sheep. And we don't have. They don't have fat. No. I mean, these things literally. You just reached in after you got the inside tenderloin. And you grabbed. Wayne grabbed two softball sized fists and threw it in our game bags. And just say, we're going to have this for days as we go hiking out of here. We're going to, you know, coat the rocks and it'll have grease to cook instead of just.

Anyway, it was amazing. So, got back to camp. Founded on meat all night and that. And woke up the next day and had a real, real hike out of there. And it rained all that day. Bushwhacking all the way out to where we could get to the river bottom. Set up camp there. And the next day crossed another big river and built a strip so they could come get us. That was probably day nine. And came and picked up the sheep. Took it in and moved us to an area a little bit more suitable for caribou hunting. Meaning you could get dropped off and you could leapfrog down a big drain and you could get picked off. You know, multiple spots as you hunted. And anyway, just the first day out. The next morning we set up camp and glass some bulls up on the mountain. They told us it was going to get really hot. And that afternoon, in the hottest time of day, these caribou were running down into the creek.

And just going crazy and bucking and kicking. And they were just being weird. Just bugs. Bugging them probably. And this bull came out. And he looked great. But he started running down the river. And went down five, six hundred yards down there. And as we're grabbing our stuff and trying to get closer in case he turns around. He turns around. But he never broke stride and ran up the side drainage out of sight. And we're like, what just happened? That was a shooter bull. And we're like, well, let's get down on the river level. Maybe he'll come back out tonight. That never happens, right? Yeah. Got down there. Got the gun. Bipotted up. Set up on there. We're like 250 yards. Hour and a half later. There he is. He comes running out of the drainage. Just crazy thing. And I'm on him this time. I had one in the pipe.

Because I'm like, you know, if they're trotting down a river and you just got to grab a gun, you kind of got to be ready. Yeah. And I'm like, I mean, this is in the, where we can get us. The strip is right here, where we got dropped off. So as soon as I'm about ready to shoot, he yells just to try to stop him. Well, he either echoed off the canyon wall there. It was kind of some bluffs along the river. He turns. And I don't know if that spooked him. He just starts running. Jumps in the river. It's about, you know, mid-rib high. He's running through it. And now he's on our, and they're like, don't shoot, don't shoot. Because now, because it's like. Going to come on your side? We couldn't have crossed the river where it was. It's like your chest. Yeah. Like you're not crossing that. And pretty soon he gets up on the other side.

And I, as soon as he got off the, you know, bank and he's just running. He doesn't know what he's running. Just hammered him. Jeez. Because I didn't want to go back in. He was a great bull. Awesome bull. And so Wayne's waiting for the next world record. Well, and I. He's like Wayne's a. Yeah. He wants a giant. He is. And he's, you know, he's kind of on, he's on a trophy fee basis for caribou. And I'd paid. Yeah. In advance. For the extra five days. Yeah. Which included the caribou. Yeah. So I thought, if I pay the extra five days, make it a 15 day hunt, include the caribou. You're not as picky. Because you've already. I've already paid for it. And I'm like, you know. And Wayne's. I'm going to shoot a good one. I mean, it's only day 10 now. Yeah. And he's probably a bit picky. He's thinking, who knows what the next few days are going to bring. Yeah.

And we're both thinking, this is amazing. Yes. Yes. And the next four days, it wasn't amazing. It was hot. It got record heat. It was in the 80s on us in the mountain. Wow. Base camp was over 90 degrees. Wow. They've never seen it that hot for, you know, this is August, you know. Wow. 10th or something like that. Anyway, the only, yeah. Wayne, day 14, we're just kind of going through the motions by that. We've got a day left. We had our oatmeal or whatever outside our tent. And the guy yells, wolf. And he's pointing back down the creek, kind of where I shot my caribou. And ended up being a wolverine. So we ran, grabbed the gun, ran down there. He was grabbing rocks that were just covered in, like, blood. Yeah. That had been three or four days old. Running them up into the trees, probably looking them. And then he was running back.

That's what's amazing to me is just even the energy from the blood. They're really, like, looking rocks. Well, if you're hungry, man. Licking rocks. I mean, geez. He would run out there, grab, like, a baseball-sized rock in his mouth and run it back to the trees, which is 200 yards. Jeez. And so he made it to the trees. But I said, let's get up here. He'll come back. So we get up there, got kind of set up. Pretty soon, here he comes. And he's loping. They run so goofy, those wolverines. But now you're like, this thing's toast. Because if he goes all the way to there, he's got to come back now. And by then, Wayne's bipodded up. And he's proned out. And this thing's loping. All it's got to do is stop. I'm ranging, ranging. I'm dialing. And I'm like, Wayne, just hold that on. Dial is like 250, 275. Stop. Flatten that thing. Wow. It was awesome. It was a rush. And Wayne had missed one.

What a trophy, though. 20 years ago, he missed one off a carcass that they had killed. But he just thought, oh, there it is. It's close. And it ended up being like, call it 250, 350 yards, which I think he said he's shooting a 30-06, 20 years. At 300 yards, that thing, you're not hitting a wolverine. No. That thing's all but out of energy. Yeah.

Anyway, so he was pretty stoked about that. But pretty amazing trip. It always is. When you go up north, it was, you know, we earned it. The weather got tough for the caribou towards the end. And that was a hunt you had won. Yeah. How many years ago? Three. It seems like. Three years ago. Jeez. Yeah. So three years ago, every year, Utah, a lot of state chapters or even at sheep show and places, they raffle off hunts, right? And you've got to be present. I don't know about the ones at sheep show, but you have to be present at the ones at Utah Wild Sheep Foundation in the room the night. And that was three years ago. Yeah, I won that sheep hunt. So, yeah. Got to have your name in the hat. Pretty awesome. I think it's great. What an awesome trip. Pretty fun. We've been, Cash? Yeah. How you been doing? We've been grinding. Like crazy. Oh, yeah. You want to give us a quick update?

You don't have to go into all the details. Just a quick update. Yeah. I just hunt in general archery. Oh, well, and you've helped us out clients. Yeah. Helped an elk client. Packed a bull out. That was heavy as crap. Great bull. Stoked for him. Then just hunting general archery deer. Helping my buddy, myself. And then I have my brother-in-law come down here soon to hunt. So, trying to just get done. So, I'm out of the way for him to come down and focus on him. But kind of had a pretty big down. I was really, really up. And then it went really, really down really fast. And now I'm just trying to pick myself back up and find something new. It's just bull hunting, man. Just normal bull hunting. Yeah. It is. Sometimes you need 28 days. You need it. There's a reason some of these seasons are real at all. You need it sometimes to just charge your batteries and take a few days off.

And then feel like I'm hungry to go hunting again. Yeah, exactly. That's true. That's true. I've been scouting a ton. I've been scouting a ton. Went to New Mexico. Learned some of that country, what I got to deal with. And then just, you know, glassing for some of your stuff a little bit. Yeah. And archery deer, which is awesome. It's been, there again, kind of need. You kind of had a down or two. So it's kind of, you do need a little bit of time. Oh, yeah. And, of course, that hasn't gotten over yet. And so, anyway, we'll tell that story when it's all over. Yeah. But then, you know, Justin, too, we've been working on his elk. And then he went out on his archery deer. This is the craziest story. It's the craziest. He's got this elk hunt. That's the highlight of his year. It's the highlight of my year. Like, it's, yeah, set aside. You're not in Alaska because of the sun.

I have to call the guys instead of be there with them, being on the call. And I wouldn't screen your call like Wyatt did. But anyway, yeah, so we're, you know, September is set aside for Justin and whatnot. And so, anyway, he's out there and he's stalking a deer. Sean and him, which is a proud moment. I'm in New Mexico getting updates via phone, you know, everything they can do. And they've got Justin on a deer. Justin ends up stalking a deer, glassing, bedding, stalking, doing everything they were taught to do, which is such a great thing for a dad to hear, right? And then he gets in there with them and he gets in tight. And the deer's got to get up. He gets up. Anyway, comes a little bit more crosswind. It's an old deer, giant bodied deer. And he had left the group. But anyway, so he, but he was like, he was bedded.

He's like, they're like, dad, he's bedded with the wind to his back and he can see him forward, right? So he can see downwind, but he's got the wind to his back. Was that like Friday or Saturday? Saturday-ish. With that big, the big winds. Yeah. Yeah. And so, anyway, and I'm like, this deer, they might have a chance. Well, anyway, he comes over and then he gets their wind, kitty corner or whatever, and they blow and yada yada. So on his way back, Justin's like, I see a little jackrabbit, you know. He's going to. He's going to just be a kid. Cut one loose. Yeah. You know, what's an arrow? A hundred dollars a carat. So, anyway. I'm just like, bump the brakes, you know. Anyway, he pulls back and he gets, let's say halfway, right in the heat of the draw. Right about the heavy part of the draw. And his D-loop breaks. And he's had shoulder surgery on his right shoulder. This would be his left.

He's right-handed. So this is one you'd hold your bow with. And, I mean, it goes off and he hits himself in the face and it threw his shoulder. Dislocate it. Dislocate it. Dislocate it. He had to put it back in. And the doctor had told him, we're going to have to do that other shoulder at some point. Dude, he's been in a sling. And this is one week before he's getting going on this archery elk. And I'm like, okay, well, you know, Utah has the infamous crossbow exemption. But you don't want to do that. Like, it's not an archery hunt. Like, you're killing it with a bow that you practice with all year. It's just different. You know what I mean? And so, anyway, I'm like, and you don't want to turn it back because it was a gift. It was a lucky draw. And it turns out it was a lucky draw. We thought it was going to be somewhat of a forced draw or close to it. No, not even close.

This year was a grudable. Oh, yeah, you're not turning it back. Not turning it back. And he's got a ton of, you know, great bulls found. He worked his guts out. I mean, we went out and set up cameras. And then, dude, I loaded him up with Onyx pens, and he just crushed it. I was so proud of just working it, glassing, learning roads. Like, he knows stuff. I don't even know. So now he's kind of, he's not shooting his bow. He got his bow fixed, D-loop. Yeah. But he's just kind of letting it heal up. He's just letting it heal up. And he's like, and he's got a doctor's note to do the crossbow thing, but he's not doing it. And I'm glad. But the doctor says, hey, and he's a good friend of ours and client. Well, you know him well. Anyway, and he's like, hey, if you can pull it back, then you're fine. It's not going to do any more damage. Not going to do any major damage otherwise.

We're going to have to deal with this, though. We are going to have to deal with this at some point. And so, anyway, he's just doing nothing, trying to nurse it back to health. Yeah, he doesn't, he'd deliver ice for his job. Yeah, he does. And he's been doing it. He says whatever. Can he drive? Yeah, he can drive. I mean, yes. I know, but he can do that. Like, he's not hauling blocks, so it might be. I don't know. I don't know what he's doing. He has been working. But he's halfway in a sling, you know, doing the best he can. So, anyway, there you have it. Just trying to, I mean, we're still doing it. We're not giving it back no matter what. So, I think he'll, he's got to be able to draw his bow one time. Maybe two or three times. Who knows? You never know how that goes. You don't want the first time he draws a bow back to be at a light out. I don't know. He might be. He might be.

So, I've prepped him. He might be sleeping in a blind. Like, he's got some, anyway. He's going to learn. There's going to be some, there's going to be a lot of learning on this. So, we're looking forward to it. It should be, should be great. And then just a lot of, a lot of scouting here in Utah and whatnot. So, things are going to get ramped up for our family here shortly. John, how are you doing? I hate archery, honey. Wow. Hey, it's not the pumpkin patch. Join the club. There's nobody glassing in front of you. You were worried about drawing a bow back. No, I'm, I'm just tired, man. Yeah. I'm like driving two hours. Yeah. So, I get up at three, drive. Yeah. Yeah. And then come back and you're like. Welcome to my world hunting Nevada for the past 15 years. It's terrible. I mean, you're going on three, four hours of sleep for three days in a row.

Well, and you're trying to be dad and husband of the year. So, you're like, it's close enough you can come back. But when it's that close, it's still 45 each way, if not an hour. Yeah. And then you're working in the middle of the day, doing all kinds of honeydew projects, working at the office. Get to bed at 11 and you're up at 4, 430. That's it. And that's your routine. It's terrible. It'd be better if I, you know, took your trailer out. Took a camp out and just made a real run out of it. But I got a magazine to do. I wonder if archery hunters' lives are shorter on average because they're dealing with the lack of sleep for a month or two. Yeah. John's trying to get a magazine out, like he said, this week. Yeah. Anyway.

Welcome to being an old guy, you know? Get these young fellas screwing off in Alaska doing whatever they want. I'm just wondering, is it just the age or like every day, like one shoulder hurts, then the older shoulder hurts, then, you know? Depends on which one you slept on. All right. Can I still pull it back? Okay. Shoot a couple. Okay. I can still pull it back. We're good. Well, anyway. Yeah. So, anyway, a lot going on. And then, Logan, you've been scouting like heck up there hunting with your dad. Yeah. Going good? Getting ready to leave again for the weekend. It's going good. Yep. Getting ready to bust out that hunt. I'm excited for it. We're pumped. Yeah. Good. Been learning a whole new way to hunt. Different than I've ever done before. So, it's been good. The WB special. The WB special. Yeah. How about you ask for an Onyx pin and you drive there and there's a giant standing there?

I know. How about that? From you? Hey. Yeah. Wow. Well, it was a gift on my part. I mean, meaning I didn't know the buck was there. I gave him a pin and he goes, dude, dead on. I'm like, okay. That's a good looking clearing. I gave you three pins. Which one? Tell me more. Update me. Give me the real pin. Yeah. There for a minute. I just thought you knew everything. I was like, holy cow. I do, Logan. That's right. Yeah. How could I forget? All right. So, anyway. Have you seen any elk? Not. Haven't seen an elk. We have not had a single report of an elk up there. Come on. That's crazy. Just like, hey, while I was in Alaska, you introduced me about needed my login for Arizona to put in for those new limited entries. Okay. Those came and went. Did we get any calls from anybody that won those? Zero. But your card was charged. And you're welcome.

And the email says that everybody's been notified. It's not true because I wasn't notified. And nobody, we've heard. I mean. Nobody gets those tags. Wyatt says it doesn't happen. I mean, come on. I am on Wyatt's side. Just put a first initial, last initial, and city or a state. Or do it on, like, the raffle pack. Do something. Come on. Anyway. Prove us wrong. Exactly. So, Logan. I talked to your dad. We've got him going again. He's super excited again. The pressure is what changes that hunt. Yes. The difference between. You mean the other hunting. Other hunters. Yes. Other hunters. Like, you found a big deer. That's great. The big deer has yet to be seen since the hunt started. Right. That's the way it goes. Yep. Right. Yeah. They're smart bucks down there. They deal with the pressure a lot, so they know what to do. But it's going to change because now people have gone home. Yeah.

We only had a weekend to hunt. The first. Just barely. And we're going to go down there and kill it for a whole week. Good. Get those weekdays where it's a little bit lighter. Yeah. I think it's going to go really good. Your dad said he needed new brakes and new tires. He did. Yeah. That was. Slow rolling the pines was a squeaky mess probably. Yeah. It was terrible. Yeah. Well. How's your turbo truck do for rolling the pines? Oh, yeah. We got to go back to that. They did not like the turbo. That little V6 is silent. And when you're going that slow and you accelerate just a little, all you can hear are those two little turbos. Yeah. Wow. And then they just perk up and run. And they were. I didn't see a single deer. Well, that's not true. I saw very few deer that weren't running by the time I could see them. I think that high pitch. This EcoBoost. You got the EcoBoost. I got the EcoBoost.

That V6. So anybody that likes to slow roll the pines, don't buy that. Don't buy that. That low rumbly, that old low rumbly V8, I think. Your dad's. On the Tundra? On that old. Yeah. 2000 Tundra. Whatever. Yeah. That's your dad. Okay. Sticking that. By the way, who sold you that truck? It's a Jason Carter Special. Best truck you've ever owned? Best truck in the family right now. How many people have I sold vehicles to? I was just thinking that. Like, the people. It's kind of like the reach of your trucks. It's crazy. Literally, Paul's told me that's like the best truck you guys have owned. Best truck. John. Yep. And I had a choice. I had a choice. We had two of the exact same Tundras. One came from another guy, and one came from Jason. Yeah. And I was talking to him. He said, you can pick whatever one you want, buy it, and then I'll buy the other one. I said, well, Jason's.

Jason, you know, uses his truck. He's hard on his crap. Jason's pretty hard on trucks. But, dude, I buy new stuff for him all the time. And you know what? That thing has not had problems until very recently. And my truck, gone. Okay. There you go. There you have it. I knew that white one was a piece of crap. My white one? Yeah. Yeah. I didn't. I love that truck. I actually didn't know that. They're good trucks. But anyway. That was just circumstantial. The downside to mine, it was maroon. A, I hate that. And B, I don't like maroon. Your F-150 looks nice, but not the Tundra. And the paint was sun bleached. Like, it's gone. Right? Those old Toyotas, they just, the paint is miserable. There's a couple cans of bed liner in the garage for that sun bleached. I've talked him out of it so far. We'll see how long it goes. All right. So, we got a lot going on. It's not even September yet.

I'm wore out. I mean, I've been bow hunting deer. Got back from Canada. Had like four or five days. And I mean, it's just been... Non-stop. Thanks for taking... Thanks for holding down the fort, everybody. I mean... Well, and you're coming in the middle of the day here and there. I am now. It's fun. I wasn't for those three weeks. But I mean, it's... But dude, it's been fun. Like, we glossed up a heck of a deer today. It's great. I mean, it's stuff straight. It's just... It's bow hunting. Some days, it doesn't matter. You see the deer. There's still not a play on the deer because of what they did, where they went, or where they got gallbladed. Every day, yeah. A lot of pressure. A lot of interesting pressure, Bronson. Are we going down this road? Well, we don't have to. Just to... I'm just going to say we've seen a lot of interesting things. Okay. Well, maybe...

We'll talk about that at the end of that. Some interesting tactics that may or may not be legal. Exactly. All right. It's fun, though. Very... It's fun, though. But you start to realize... Before your eyes. Honestly, you start to realize there's so few tags on the unit. The reason why is they want quality. And there's loads of bucks. So you'd think it could handle the tags, but with the technology and the commercialized pressure... People not willing to give up what they've had for a long time, basically. Yeah. And the crossbow exemptions and things like that, these deer don't live, man. No. Like, they're taking a scalpel and extracting the very top end of the entire unit each and every year. And you can see it. Yeah. You can see it. But anyway, it's an awesome hunt. Men's fun. Oh. And we're not even halfway through. I love it. Good. I love it. Not at four in the morning.

I mean, you know. Yeah. I'm a monster and a half in by eight o'clock in the morning. Where are we at? All right. So let's... We don't have... I can't believe it's only been 52 minutes. Well, let's just... Let's do a few of these questions. Let's do this. Let's throw a... Okay. We'll talk about Outdoor Edge real quick. Yeah. We've been longtime partners with Outdoor Edge. We appreciate their support of us here at Epic Outdoors. We've had several giveaway knives that we've given away. Replaceable blade knife, as well as our new knife that we have out there. And we'll probably do another promo for that this next year. But make great products, whether you're looking for a foldable fixed blade or a straight fixed blade, a replaceable knife. They've got it for everything. I mean, they literally do. So check them out, OutdoorEdge.com.

You know, one of the knives that they're talking about right now is this Razor VX. It's pretty awesome. Very versatile knife there. We've got an ad on that in this page 65 of our August-September magazine if you want to check that one out. But check them out on the website, too. They've got the QR code in there and can read up about that as well. Why don't you dive into this Hoyt ad? Just because we're right in the middle of archery season and you've been using them. I'm shooting them. Justin's shooting them. Like, yeah, let's do it. Everybody here shoots a Hoyt. We love them. They're smooth draw. They're snappy. They look great. I mean, I can't say enough. We've said it over and over. I've got two in camp, fortunately. Something goes wrong with one of them. You throw a D loop in camp and don't want to run back to town to get one bait. You know, I've got another bow there.

But they're awesome, mate. You know, they've always been a cut above. They're obviously a Utah-based company. We've been good partners of ours here at Epic Outdoors. So we got rid of all the bows that we give away in our giveaways and things like that. But everybody who shoots a Hoyt usually doesn't find themselves asking for more. I mean, they usually, and I'm very easily to admit this, they all shoot better than I can shoot. And part of that's just because maybe I'm getting older and I haven't cranked my bow down in 15 years. Have you yet? I still shoot 70 pounds because I started shooting that as like a 35-year-old. But, I mean, hey. But, hey, you held a draw for 80 seconds. 80 seconds the other day. How about that? And I didn't know. Although, you probably weren't capable of making an accurate shot after those 80 seconds. That's another story for me. Hey, hey. Nick did get Nick.

Yeah, he did. But, I mean, they do have a great let-off. I will say that. You're not holding. When we started shooting compounds, Jason, you're not holding one for it. Like, you held 50% of it back then. Yeah. Like, literally. They were 50% let-off. Remember they were trying to outlaw like 75 or 80 plus. They're like hoping you're on. Starting to look at whether, is this really legit or should we put more of his parameters on that? It was so long, let's put it this way, because when I drew back on this deer, I got, and this thing is so dead. He's like 30 yards. Feeding, looking away when I draw back. But then he squats to pee. Yeah, just what you don't want. And this thing has a bladder size of freaking. Yeah. I've been in clothes for two hours on him, so he needs to get up and do that.

But, I mean, you draw, you know, I didn't think he was going to, I didn't see even a bush he was feeding on, but he starts eating on something. So I had to slide over. It may be too soon to talk about this story. It might hit a little close to home at the moment. But I did see the sliced hair. Right at his withers. Anyway. All right, we'll keep going. Anyway, long story short, yeah, I draw. And, like, when you draw on an animal and they don't see you, like an elk, like a deer, and they're on to you, that elicits a little bit of target panic. Yes. Oh, I've got to find this pen and I've got to cut one loose. Even though you've got all day. Well, you think, but, no, what I mean is when you draw back, if a deer or an elk sees you, that look is like, oh, crap, I can't sit there for 10 seconds and breathe and do all this slow release.

But when they're not looking at you, it just feels like they're so dead. And as soon as I come to full draw, he lifts his head and takes two steps. And now his head's up and he squats and he's peeing.

And he's got a full bladder. And I can't see his body. I can see his butt and his head poking out of brush. And I'm like, okay, this is going to get interesting. So I'm just holding normal for a while because his head's up. And then, you know, as he starts finishing up, I'm like, this is because he doesn't know I'm there. And I'm like, if he takes a couple steps, I can still kill him. And then he buries his head in a bush right there. And I'm like, okay. So I jam my cam into the ground, kind of to the dirt. Just to get a little. Just to give me something to shove against a little bit so it's not air. Yeah. And now I'm holding it down here. And I'm like, okay, if I shoot this thing, the arrow is just going to hit the dirt. And the knot is going to be like six inches from my face. I'm thinking of all these bad things. And finally he buries it. And finally I'm like, here we go.

And sometimes, you know, when you're weak, when you're shaken and you let off, it can be kind of violent. You know what I mean? You know what I'm saying? Well, I know exactly. Yeah. And so finally it came down smooth. He doesn't. But now I'm like, okay. Now you're out. Oh, yeah. Now I'm just like, okay. You're fatigued. And then pretty soon it starts walking. I'm like, ah. Come back. And then at that time he's just walking. And I did that old, you know. Yeah. Pray. Shoot and pray. No, the just, ah. You know, he stops. And what does he do? Because he wasn't going to stop. And anyway. When you don't have time to range, you sometimes. Yeah. You got to range every time. Yeah. But it's a bummer. Sometimes you can't. You can't. I know. But you didn't even have time to range the bushes in front of him, around him. No. So like you were even. And he was close enough.

It's not like I was lobbing and hoping a prayer. But like, you know, five to ten yards off is the difference of nicking or not. You might have should have had a crossbow provision like you could have. It would have been dead 14 times over. Yeah. Huh? You know what I think about that. When you need one of those, you're now a gun hunter for most of your life. Well, I know. Okay. Hold on. Justin might be. He might. He does not want to give this out. Well, I know. I'm just saying. I know. For me personally, when I can't. Part of hunting with a bow for me, especially mule deer, is the thrill of being that close to something. And when it happens, there's nothing for me. And Jason, you've killed way more big deer than me with a bow. But there is nothing. There's nothing like it. On the spectrum of killing an animal, like killing a big mule deer with a bow. With a vertical bow.

There's nothing like the adrenaline rush, the sense of satisfaction, the, oh my gosh. It's like the less, the 99.9% of stuff had to come together to make it happen. Yeah. It feels like a lot of the time. I mean, last year, and I said this jokingly this year, last year I killed the deer the first deer. So this year I thought, oh, I'm going to probably have to hunt 13 days this year to make the average a seven day hunt. Because last year I hunted one. And we were getting close to 13 days. Last year was a gift. Yeah, it was a total gift. I mean, you were a freaking hero. I'm like, dah. I'm a hero to the office. I'm here working. I'm an office. I have no problems. I'm a hero at home because I'm coming home, honey. I got lots of food. You get to see me again. And in this case, I was in Canada for three weeks. Come home for five.

Makes you wonder if the women are like, oh, he only lasted one day out there. She's not. Or if they're like, but I've got to act excited that he's coming home. Or if they're truly excited. We got good. I know. We know that. But I'm just trying to, I kind of like John. You're trying to be everywhere at once. He's something for everybody. John's got the trophy. You're not taking it from him. He's dad of the year every year. Well, I'm just talking about, he's wearing himself out because he's driving in and out every single day when he admits, if I had a camp, it'd probably be a little bit more enjoyable. He's got some other things in the magazine. Well, the problem John has is he's going to take Starlink with him or he's going to take that great big antenna for his cellular phone. So he never is out of, you need to go where you have no service. This is true. And your in-reach is dead.

There's truth. There's truth to that. Like in Canada, it's really good. I mean, that. It is. I was about three weeks into the no monster when I went to Canada. And then you're cold turkey for another three weeks. There's nothing back there. Yeah. And pretty soon it's over. They say you do 21 days of something. You're cleansed. Oh, and you've broke the addiction. Yeah. If you're 21 days clean, you're clean. Is that what you're saying? I don't. This is the honest truth. December 15th, you're back in, boss. I guarantee you. It could be, but this is the honest truth. Do you want to? I don't even think about them anymore. I don't even think about them. Do you want to be monster clean? Who wants to be monster clean? It's kind of a self-mastery thing, I guess. Oh, geez. I started, I'm training. It started because I'm training for this hunt. Are you mastering the natural man?

Well, call it what you want. But I wasn't getting as good a shape as I thought I was. So you had to give it up. And I'm like, I'm just going to cut out pop and monster everything. Yeah, see if it helps. And it couldn't hurt, I mean, I'm sure. And now it's just like, okay, if I'm not needing it to save my life, like stay awake, I'm just going to not. All right. Well, enough of that trash talk. Because it's not resonating with me at all. This came out of one morning on the mountain when I'm like, I'm huffing and puffing too much. I should be in better shape than this. Okay. All right. I'm the question reader guy. And so I can see why Josh has skipped some of these. And he's probably made some up. Who knows? But anyway, Bronson, John, Logan, and Cash. These are for you. This is for you guys. If you could wave a magic wand, what steps would you take to help mule deer herds?

Check. I think the things you could. Okay. Let it rain. That's one. So pray. Pray. Okay. Yeah. Pray. Okay. And there was a biologist. I've said it before. He said, pray for rain. And there was other people that said, that's the. That's a scapegoat. It is. Hey. I believe that. It's the number one thing. And then I honestly. Go ahead. You can't change. There's certain things you can't change. Like, hey, get rid of all the people and highways so we have no more talent. But I would say. Get rid of every coyote. Every coyote. Okay. 1080. Bring back 1080. Well, there's. I just. Get rid of every coyote. Well, you can't kill the coyotes without killing the eagles. I've got a magic wand, remember? Oh. That's true. That's true. So. I like. And you might just lump predators. Like, if it can rain. Yeah. And they survive. Which. Those are factors we had. We did have less people.

We did have less highway mortality in the 50s, 60s. But we also had. We had things like. 1080 and others. 1080. To just annihilate predators. And when it rained and you could. And you were consistent on predators. They. That's what I like. They did. And it was. And it's directly related. Those. Those ebbs and flows. Yeah. Directly were correlated with 1080. The use of 1080. Yeah. 100%. 70s. In a lot of places. But. You know. But now. We live in the. Whatever. Century this is. They call this 21st century. It is. For the last 24 years. And you're not freaking using 1080 ever again. So. You know. But. If we could do something about the predators. Great. That's always going to be there. Well. I was talking to Gary while we were glassing this morning. And. It was kind of interesting. You know. It's true. If we could do something. We've. We've had certain areas that have. Ebbed and flowed.

And you can level those out a little bit. If you can take care of the lions. We have one area. That the lions have annihilated it. Yeah. And we talked about specific numbers. That we've. Survey. Kind of isolate. Call them isolated areas. Isolated places. Yeah. We know it was that. Because we were seeing them. Yeah. The track. The sign and tracks were everywhere. And then. At some point. The population goes to nothing. Of deer. Lions quit. Coming there. Lions leave. And then. And spread out. Five to ten years after that. And then you have. They're doing good. They're. Yeah. They proliferate. And they're good. Everything's good. And then the lions come back. And so you have these ebbs and flows. And it's nice to level those out. Smash the lions. Have a little longer time with plenty of deer. A little less with no deer. But then you've got to deal with the weather. Like John was saying.

Yeah. You still have to have that. Weather will trump a lot. But. So you've got the wand. We're doing the predators. What about. Yeah. What else. What else. What are you going to do management wise. I want to. So now let's go right into the management. Just short answers. Doesn't have to be forever. Because we have vetted this out a bit. But what would you do management wise.

Stuff that we can really control.

I would let. I would let more. If you had to pick some of these. I'll call them a few of these crazy ideas. That some people throw out about. Recurve bows. Old must. Old lever action guns. And all that stuff. Come on. Come on. Let's get serious. I mean. That stuff is. Hokey. Hokey. Hokey. You know. Okay. Well. I don't know. But I mean. Like a four point or better. Or something. If you. And I know. All. Everybody says there's wasting. And there could be. But in theory. If you can let. Quote. Every yearling buck. At least live. There's going to be a lot more bucks. The next year on the landscape. For a lot of two year old bucks. You know. For people. And they get a little smarter each year. Yeah. And they do. I. And I. In general. I've never really hunted a place. With antler point restrictions for deer. I. I don't think I have. And maybe. When we were young. In Utah. When we were young.

Maybe they did. I. I don't remember. Didn't we do it on the bookclives? Well. You hunted there. I didn't. So. I'm talking where I've hunted myself. Yeah. So. That would be one. I mean. Just short term. To recruit bucks. Which. Which I know. I mean. Is. Is not popular. Because. A lot of people say. Bucks are. Bucks are a waste. And all that. But I. I still contend. If. If you're not providing. A good enough experience. For youth hunters. Or new hunters. Or all that. To give them tags. Everybody get kids hooked on hunting. Well. If the hunting. Stinks so bad. And you're not getting. And they try it for three or four years. And they don't have a good experience. And now. Now you didn't hook them. And so they're never coming back. Yeah. You could actually. So you could make that argument. So. It's not just give a piece of paper to someone. So they can go to that. You can.

You can do that with cow elk. Or spike elk. Or whatever. You got opportunities to hunt. But I would say. Management wise. I do that. You might have some short. Short lived season length restrictions. We've done that in the past. Both the southern region. Southeastern. There was one year I hunted the southeastern region. That rack approved a five day season. For all three hunts. And I had a southeastern tag that year. Lifetime. Five day archery hunt. Done. Five day muzzle. Five day rifle. We saw an uptick. Okay. And they did it in the southern region. We saw an uptick here. And I. It's not the long term solution. No. But that might. That might. Be this. You might get the same thing. That. You might get the same results as a four pointer better. Those are just. Two things. Well. New Mexico has five day gun hunts. Yeah. Everything. Except for bow. Yeah. Yeah. Gun hunts. Rifle and muzzle.

Yeah. There's a couple sevens. Yeah. I think yours might be a seven. Yeah. Or five. Some of those weird ones are fives and sevens around the state. But anyway. But yeah. So it's interesting. I think. We saw an uptick in numbers and quality on the five. When they did the five day. But then. Yeah. But the outcry. The public. Dealing with the public. Well it was. Because then you don't get two weekends of a deer hunt. When you don't. The family tradition's gone. Yeah. I mean. You hear everything. But I mean. There's got to be give. But anyway. I still think the rain and predators. And I know predators. And I still think. Well. And I think if we can generate some cash. Which we are good at it here in Utah. There's a lot of. There's a lot of funds. And ways to generate money. But I like. Like if we were to high fence this Highway 56. Then they've got some of these overpasses and underpasses.

Down in Ponce. And the overpass over here at Beaver. It's amazing over on Highway 89. How many dead deer there are. Or were. Have you been noticing? Especially. This. Like right now. This time of year. Like I'm not talking down. Oh no. You're not talking. I'm talking the mountains. Where the underpasses are. From Penguich to. There's loads. Glendalwaterville. Dude. How many every day. I cannot believe I haven't wiped out my truck already. Because I've made the trip 10 or something times. Okay. Here's another story. I got pulled over the other night. Yeah. That cops coming my way. I didn't know it's a cop. It's pitch black. You're rolling through 80 like it's your job. It's 75. Okay. So. But he. I don't know. He might listen to the podcast. So I'm going to keep it nice. But. He flips on his lights. And comes up and says. Hey. You're on a little fast night. And you had your light bar on.

And I says. Well. Yeah. He says. Well. I don't know if it's against the law. And I. If we're supposed to run these on highways. I said. Well. I don't either. Did you say. He doesn't know. I said. I don't. I don't either. But I. At my age. It's on. Or I'm going to smash a deer. There ever. He goes. I would too. And he says to you. I don't know if it's legal or not. Yeah. Exactly. Who does that? Who says that? And I said. I thought I'd. He says. Yeah. You did. But he says. I just. Not. Not sure. It's not. You know. Maybe not safe. And I'm like. Well. I'm using it. Because it's worse for me to plow a deer. You know. Going 75. Yeah. I got a warning. You did for what? Speeding? Yeah. 10 over. Okay. Well. You're lucky. It's because he admitted he didn't know a rule. And he brought it up. Like. Don't even bring it up if you don't know a guy. Well. There are. There are some. That.

Light bars that you can get that are below a certain threshold. I know. But. And they're. But why even put those on? I know. But. He might have been saying. I'm not sure if yours is okay. I'm saying burn the retinas. Exactly. I don't know. But I mean. That is. There's stretch of roads here. There's a reason why I get light bars. There's a lot of fawns that are dead. I mean. So many. Adam. Every day. Every day. Highway 12. 89. We were gassing up at Todd's Junction one night. Aaron was there. You were probably there. Oh. I was. Did you hear that? Freaking commotion right out on the highway. Semi obliterated a deer right out in front of Todd's while we were gassing up. I mean. And I pull out there. And it looked like Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I'm just saying. Overpasses and underpasses. I'm telling you. If we could save. You could save the mamas. You're going to make a difference.

Because they're having a pair of fawns every single year. Yeah. And those fawns are having fawns. And those fawns. It doesn't take long. Yeah. Anyway. So we got that. I don't know how we're going to fix that. Because we're just getting more and more people. It's just going to get worse and worse and worse on every highway. It just has for the last 40 years. Yeah. I don't know how we're going to fix it. Then you'd be accused against hunting high fences if you got a high fence down one side of the road. How about that? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. All right. So anyway. Cash, what do you think? Magic one, Cash? What do you guys say? I wanted to talk real quick to add on before I forget. And then we'll jump right into more discussion. But this antler point restriction. There's been biologists contend that the four point or better forces somebody to really analyze what they're shooting.

Can't shoot a four. Versus a three. Yeah. Or whatever. And leave them lay and go kill the next one. And also found a lot of does dead. You'd just be surprised that Hunter's not checking. Hunter's just shooting and praying. And walking away. I've heard all that. And so you take care of the mamas as best you can. Make sure every doe lives. You know what I mean? If possible. That's why I say as an alternative, it's maybe short term season date. I mean, you know there. You're done, honey. But we've been grasping at straws, Adam. And John and everybody here, we know. Well, we've been through these processes of curtailing the weapons, curtailing season date. We've gone through every scenario possible. None of it's made a dramatic count. And the hunters are willing to, a lot of hunters, not everybody, but willing to self-check

and be like, for the betterment of the game, we do need to analyze technology tactics, things like that. So I don't know. We've dealt with some of that, but obviously it's on people's minds. Well, if you guys had a magic wand. I'm going to go with something a little bit different. Okay, we might edit this. Where are we at? Might be dumb. No, I think if you split the state into three, maybe four regions and took and shut down all of the gun hunts in one unit in each of those regions and cycled through the regions. Rotate. I like the rotate. Had an archery and a muzzleloader hunt max. Just so you'd effectively cut tags in over half that unit for that specific unit. Yeah, for that specific, and then just cycle through. That one gets a year off, that one gets a year off. Go through. I think after time you would see an effect. We could cycle through the five-day thing too.

We could put five-day on Pine Valley and then swap it out. Do Zion five-day. You're kind of getting there the same way. You're basically looking at saving the young bucks because 80%, 90% of the people shoot yearling and two-year-old bucks on general deer hunts. That's just what they shoot. So you're just saying, let them live. So there's many ways to do that, but that's a different one. I'm sure. Just something a little different. I like it. Yeah. John. He already said rain. Oh, rain. Yeah. Okay. What do you say? Do you got anything else since we've been talking? No. I like all of the others. I like the rotating. I like the, you know, all that. You know, Bronson, you were in your era, you did see the San Juan closed for like five years. Oh, yeah. And the Henrys. And the Henrys and the Ponce Cliffs. And the Poncecon. Yeah. All those were closed. And remember- They were closed.

They were all general season. When they opened back up, it was like, what do you want to call it? Chia Pet? Well, they just had immediate age. And they also, they weren't closed for the reason of, let's try to make these awesome limited trees. They were all general seasons. Lack of deer. San Juan Elk Ridge. Books. Henrys. Book Cliffs. Yeah. Poncecon were general season hunts until they were closed. They were just too vulnerable. Partially, you look at each unit, they're different. They're much different. And Henrys had higher deer numbers then than now. But it's generally, it's a desert mountain range that pops up. And if you just- High elevation, but in the middle of the desert. Yeah. And if you went out there and just crushed it generally, you could see how the deer numbers are not incredibly high. Like Poncecon, they migrate to the southern end, just like the Zion does. Yeah.

And you can crush, you can crush that unit in the late rifle hunt. Oh, yeah. And then you had the late- We had the late muzzle. Which is my favorite ever. On a general? Yeah. Remember Ponce general? I mean, geez. So, I'm just saying, closing them, like when you close them for five years, you see huge, huge. But they're- I contend the public could not handle it. No one could not. They can't handle it. Let's see, the first buck, two years later when they saw the first buck on that unit that had a cheater, that's the first cheater they've ever seen in their life on that unit because the deer were growing, they'd lose their mind and say, we need to reopen. Lose their mind. Lose their mind. This unit doesn't grow bucks with cheaters. I saw 20 bucks tonight. We are not- we are letting a great resource go to waste by not issuing a bunch of tags here. Yeah. This could have handled 19 tags.

That's why we're- Because one buck makes it. He breeds them all. I mean, have we not heard all of this? I haven't heard it all. I mean, we got guys saying, let's load the ponds with more tags. We're letting resource waste. I mean, we're fighting against our own, you know. Yeah. Here. All right. Logan? I'd say mountain lions. I mean, I know Adam said predators, but personally, mountain lions have just messed me up. And I honestly think- Dude, it's OTC with trapping. What are you- I know, but I honestly think coyotes are- I have traps, Logan. I want you to trap or do something. Trap a mountain lion? Yeah. For sure. What do you mean? People are doing it left and right. Friends of ours. That's awesome. I would do it in my backyard if I wasn't afraid of getting a dog. A neighborhood dog. John. John's got- Yeah. John, you've got some tactics. All right. Let's move right along.

So, Bronson, this is going to dovetail into this one. For or against- And notice how I'm not throwing out the names. I want people to participate not thinking they're worried about their name being bashed, right? We're already mixing up the question reader guy rules. I don't think Josh does it right. We're going to overwrite him. We're going to overwrite him today because he's not here. We want people to speak their mind. So, all right. So, for or against trail cam seasons. Are you okay with private land use, government studies, et cetera? I mean, how many studies do we need to do? And that's being abused here and there. People are getting a few little tidbits from friends and family. I don't- I understand, I guess, private property. But you can't spotlight on private property. You can't bait on private property. What do you mean? The spotlighting you can do without a gun in your car.

Well, during the hunt. Like, and kill a deer at night. Right. I mean, just because, hey, private property rights. You can't- I can hunt deer on my property. So, you're saying all- There's still rules on private property. The rules from public to private should be the same. I think in this case. I think it gives an advantage, personally. And we all know there's giant places in northern Utah. You got Deseret, 200 and something thousand acres. Okay. Whatever. Yeah. But you can't let them and not let somebody else. My point is, but you can get a 40-acre piece somewhere in the middle down here and surrounded by BLM. And you can learn a lot. You can- We've seen it. We've seen it during these hunts. I've seen cameras up still on pieces of private. But you drive right by a- It's a checkerboard, call it. And there's a camera pointed on- It's true. Right there on water on the private. True.

It's just- I would- Very frustrating. I don't have a problem with it if everybody plays by the rules. Yeah. That's my problem with it. So if you're going to- So big game laws and rules should apply to everybody. Baiting, cameras, everybody stop. You can hide. Weapon restrictions, whatever they may be. Yeah. You know, can't use a 50 cal. Whatever the rules are, they are the rules. Private property, you have rights. But there are still laws on how you can harvest. You can't hunt before or after sunset. I mean, there's all laws. So you can't just say, hey, you can't tell me I can't run a camera on my property. So why allow the camera and not just let them use thermal imaging on rifles, too? If it was really, yeah. Private land, do whatever you want. We don't say that. That's not real. So why- I don't- So why cameras and not everything else? That's right. Why not everything else and cameras?

So- I actually, and we've said this before on podcasts, like, it's a little nice to stop running cameras at a certain point. Oh. It wears us out. And if you- Look at John right now. If you're checking- He looks like crap. If you're checking cameras- John, you're white-faced. You're lack of sleep. John, if you're here, and now you have to go check cameras all the day during the day out there. I don't- It does give you something to do during the day. Oh, I love cameras in the middle of the day. Yeah. But I am wise. It is kind of nice to be done. I'm grateful they're in the garage. As long as everybody else is done. Okay. But if you're not done- Yeah. So at the end of the day, let's just say everybody had the same rules. Would you be for or against the trail cam season? I'm okay with it. No. I loved it. I really liked it during the elk hunting, especially.

You could be working wallows during the hunt. I killed bulls. The .385 out here in Southwest Desert. I killed it because of a camera. During the hunt. Exactly. So I liked that on certain hunts. He came into rut. I saw him, and I went and smashed him. Yeah. With my friends. Dusty and whoever else. But I fully acknowledge and understand, and there's some places that they're extremely vulnerable, Arizona Strip and other places, that cameras change things dramatically. Dramatically. So what do you say? I love the cameras. I like running them for a season. I don't think Arizona, I don't think the whole camera, man. I don't either. Put a season on them or something. Yeah, let people run them, but- Pull them down. But it is going to change the place if everybody plays by the rules. It will change it for the better as far as quality, and I'm all about that. That's kind of what I'm saying.

You have to wake up thinking you might see a 280 buck. Somebody doesn't- Or somebody might shoot one. How cool is that? Do you think during the archery season that it's going to have a big impact on success rates? Oh, no. I think people are going to- Not dramatically. People are shooting. People are- Opportunities to be shooting. People's standards are changed throughout the season. I'm just as unsuccessful now as I was then. And that's what they'll contend. They will contend that no matter what the muzzle to restriction is, success is very roughly the same. Yeah. So that these advances in technology don't make a difference. And it's just not necessarily the case. That's what I'm wondering. Back then, there was not mandatory reporting. Yeah. And so the stats aren't perfect. But it's just like you- But on top of that, my expectations change. Like I would- Well, yeah.

You knew a 385 bull just hit here. I did. Now I'm Galvan. I'm going to go- I'm going to kill that thing. I did. But otherwise you're like- But I might have killed a 350. You had a first 340 or 50. I might have. Yeah, exactly. I might have. So it'd make- You'd still check the box and kill the elk and see? It didn't matter to that guy. He killed them either way. Success didn't matter. It doesn't change success. Well, success on giants- Exactly. Like a strip is a great- You're only hunting- Those guys are targeting the top 20% of the bucks. Most people that draw strip tags. Top. The best of the best. And that's what you'd, in a way, like to see a few of those make it every year. And that's what cameras will help. I was listening to a podcast. He made a very good point. He said, out here on the strip, we used to run cameras and hundreds, right? So lots of cameras.

And I know some of the outfitters would run a lot of cameras. And they should. I would too. And so anyway, they would know about- They would have a hit list X deep. Let's call it 20 bucks deep. 30 bucks deep. And so when you got tired of hunting buck A, you might move to buck B. If you got tired of hunting buck B, you might go to buck F or whatever it is, right? And so you have this hit list to continue hunting new areas and freshen up your energy, right? That you got a new place, new glassing knobs, new everything. And now we're back to feeling like we're in the game. Whereas right now, you know of two bucks or three bucks that you glassed up. In the summer. And so you don't have the conviction. You don't even know about buck F. Yeah. And so you don't have the conviction to go hunt where buck F might have lived. That's what I'm saying, yeah.

And so now you're really honed in on these couple of bucks. But you also have less pressure because other people don't know about your bucks, but you don't know about their bucks. And so it's kind of changed the pressure, the competitive nature. And also I think, in my mind, guys are willing to hunt a little bit lesser because we only know about two giants and we can't turn them up. So now we see a 185, we're going to hunt it. Whereas if you have a hit list of 25, 220s or 215s or 205s. But the guy's going to kill a deer. So on the end of the fishing game, you're going to say it didn't change success at all. Well, it changed the success on the 200 to 230 bucks, maybe. That could be 250, 260. I contend we're going to see some of it. On good wet years, you're going to reap the benefits or however you want to call it of feeling like the new world record might live out there.

You know what I mean? Or whatever. Might wake up and see something just monumental. It will be interesting to see the results. I think bottom line, I like to see the change. Like just so they're trying different stuff and you've got different things in different states. I like that, John. I think that's a valid comment. And also he's talking about like part of the question was government studies. I'm so freaking sick and tired of studies. Do we not know something in the 21st century? How many predator studies have we done, Bronson, since 1973? Okay. Do we not know that predators eat meat? Do we not know that? Bears have an impact? Bobcats have an impact on fawns? Do we not know this? Like I'm so tired of it. We can't do everything in the name of study. Be done studying. We're over it. We know the Ponsacont deer migrate. We know this. Do we need to know every little trail they use?

You know, is that not going to be abused in some fashion? I don't know. Am I just barking down roads? Adam's a biologist. Let's. I'm over it. If the biologist can't talk to your outgoing biologist, talk to the new biologist. Tell him where they migrate to and be happy. We know this. We don't need to. What's it going to change for management? They're not willing to change anything. Yeah, I don't know. They're going to. They just want to issue more tags. The gal over here. The gal over here is making up numbers only surveying fields and places she wants to to make her numbers better to give more tags. She doesn't. This study did nothing for her. These studies do nothing. They do nothing. Am I wrong, Bronson? Just tell me. And by the way, don't cut that out of this podcast. All right. What do you think? That's the best general unit in the southern part of the state. No.

Well, according to these fudged numbers that had nothing to do with studies that are going on. Get rid of the studies. We know enough. That's whatever. Yeah, I'm not willing to say that it's not possible. That doesn't change. A study could help something sometime, but I don't think they are. But take the money and protect the highways and protect the fawns and let more does live. Take the money and do something else. These studies aren't changing populations. That's my gig.

I'm all right. Okay. Or figure out a way to kill less does. Bronson, just tell me I'm wrong in some fashion and be the devil's advocate. In some ways or not. I mean, there's a lot of reincarnated studies doing the same thing, different place, different era. There are things. There are changes in technology. Most specifically, when I was a biologist, we had VHF callers. Okay. Those are pretty rudimentary. They just, you had to fly over them with a fixed wing to get a signal. But what's the... To know whether it was even alive. Now, they get GPS callers from your computer. You know when something dies. And you can say, I need to go fly and pick this up. I could see desert sheep in the Escalante having callers making a difference on. We have a lion problem in the Escalante. I can see that. So there are things like that that change, technology changes. But I mean... The genius.

Can you not go on the winter range and see your deer herds and see what... And have some common sense? Do we need to study them? Yeah. Well, and I think if you're trying to go after funding for a highway overpass, underpass, big bill, having ammunition of, hey, we've got GPS callers on X number of deer in this unit. Here's the hot spots. This is where we need to target. There's things like that. So not all studies are a waste of time. I'm with you. Coyotes eat fawns. I'm so sick of hearing that. I'm so sick of hearing that. I mean, it's fun to put a collar on a fawn and watch it be dead 30 days to a coyote. And you're paying a biologist, Kate, even though he's on, let's call it sound a salary and he's got a certain amount of hours, but he's got to go out there and deal with it. We have a dead one. We're going to go out and decide what killed it.

Some of those things are getting a little bit... I mean, man, we've reinvented the wheel, man. And I like it. The information's interesting, but it's only interesting for the dudes that have it. It's interesting, but it's also costing money. You don't have it. You don't have the information. I mean, you're going to... You kind of get what you're told and what the general overview, 20,000... Maybe we need to start grammaring questions and stuff. Well, I mean, whatever. All right. Here's a fun couple questions. And then one more deep one, and then, dude, I'm over this freaking podcast. Okay, here we go. Colorado ZR2 or a Toyota Tacoma? Bronson, you and I both had 2018 Tacomas. Over them, right? I had it for about nine months. My back's never been the same. It's not even a comparison. Your knees are in your freaking chin. I mean, that's not even a comparison.

To get a Toyota Tacoma to have everything that the ZR2 has from the factory... Front lockers. I mean, front and rear lockers, the suspension and everything. Have you ever looked, and maybe they're better, the shocks on a stock Toyota Tacoma? Okay. How big around are they? Oh, my pinky. Yeah? The rod's my pinky. I mean, geez. So, it's not even a comparison. And, hey, if you want to... Let's go for a ride sometime. I could be... It's true. I've taken... And the back seat of a Tacoma, you guys remember, they're tiny compared to the ZR2. The ZR2 is pretty handily. It comes with a little bit of a lift compared to a normal Chevy Colorado. It comes with the suspension. I added a leaf. I added a leaf spring in the back. I love that. It's the best thing I ever did. Best riding little truck from the factory that you get. And I'm not a big, you know, aftermarket.

I mean, there's a lot of things when you start doing that. Sometimes certain trucks aren't made for it, but when it comes from the factory, it's like... Everything's covered underwater. But the Tacomas, there's a lot... Nevada was built off Tacomas. It is. And I hear, hey, they have the best resale value. Okay. That is true. It is. But I... If you're a kid, if you're a kid that's really concerned about the resale, and you should be, buy a freaking Toyota. Do it. Nothing holds up to it like that. There's no question. I sold you a truck for Tacoma. I sold you guys that truck for nothing. Yes. In fact, I want money back when you guys sell it. You should have it. You should have it. All right. Keep going, brother. But I mean, so I hear that thrown out a bunch. But I guess, man, I think you have a lot of deficiencies to just have that in the back of your mind.

Well, when I'm ready to get rid of this, I'm going to get more than what I am in my Colorado. Yeah. So you're going to have a little bit of money in back braces. Okay. All right. And then what do you think about the Colorado? Chevy Colorado? I like it. I like it a lot. What about the Tacoma? Plenty of friends. I had a 2008 Tacoma when I first moved to Cedar. That's a good year. It was great just for what I was doing. But looking back now, I would hands down have a ZR2 or the truck cab. They're roomier. They're roomier than the crew cab. They're just more comfortable. Just better. A little bit bigger cab. And I mean, the beds are maybe slightly shorter. Right. But I mean, I'm not putting four-wheelers in my Colorado. Okay. Here's one more. You can, but I'm not doing it. I get to have my anti-government comment. Okay.

I wish we had the chance to get some of the other trucks that are available out there that are not available because of our government. Okay. Like the Mitsubishi L200 and the Toyota Hilux. Oh, yeah. The Hilux. These in Europe, John? Yeah. Big roomie four-door. You got terrorist mounting machine guns in the back in the desert. Yeah. Anyway. There's diesel rain. Al-Qaeda uses these, you're saying? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like crazy. The Hilux. And what was the first one you said? The Mitsubishi L200. Oh, okay. Anyway, their little truck. Do you think Kamala knows the vehicles that these foreigners are using? Like, do you think our government- Well, if you remember the question, she said, you know, she was voiced with a question that she's never been to the border, but then she says she's never been to Europe either. So she doesn't know about that. So it's fine. Okay. All right.

Well, I don't know why we're- I do not recall. I do not recall. Okay. All right. I'm all- Okay. Pass this. Let's see. How many monsters in a row makes it okay to score a deer with bungee cords? Asking for a friend. All right. So what is this? Oh, John, do you know what they're talking about? Look at John. This is directed towards- Is this a real question? Oh, John. All right. We should read that guy's name. We've got to dispel this, though. If you score something with a bungee cord, it's going to score smaller. Smaller. If you stretch it. Because it stretches, each one is shorter. Yeah. Yeah. It'd be like a rubber tape major. The joke of a rubber tape major. Yeah. It actually is shorter. It's worse. Because you're stretching it, and then you put it down against a ruler, and it's smaller. Right? Yeah. Is that what we're talking about? Yeah. Well, I mean, it's fine, but I mean-

People say rubber, and then they want it to be bigger. How many monsters in a row makes it okay to score deer with bungee cords? Asking for a friend. I don't know who. Did somebody score deer with bungee cords that we know of? Or is this an internal joke? Probably the circle of friends, maybe. I think they're meaning, like, score it with a shorter tape. If I had a friend on Monsters scoring a buck with bungee cords, I'd definitely bring it to WB, Wyatt Bowles, and get it official in 60 minutes. He's on Mountain Dew now, which I contend for him and his sister. He fell off the wagon. He did a face plant like you did up there in the Northwest Territory. And that. And that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. For as long as he's worked here, he's been off them until three months ago. Yeah. He was on water when he had the kidney stones. I don't- Pure. And he crawled. Crawled to his truck. I'm him.

I'm not drinking water ever, ever again. What's the deep one? You said you had two fun ones and a deep one. Yeah, let's- I mean, all right. Here's the deep one. Oh. Outside of Premier Tax, how do you prioritize your criteria for areas that could hold giants? Does it say deer or it doesn't say? No, it doesn't say. This guy's an elk hunter. Does he? Yeah. Based on his name? Yeah. Elk hunter 356? No.

He's an elk hunter. And killed giants. But anyway, so outside of Premier Tags, how do you prioritize your criteria for areas that could hold giants? A, there has to be escapement in my mind. Has to be escapement. People don't like to hunt it. So call it desert areas. Or low tags. Low tags. Like there's been some places like New Mexico that you and I both got lucky and drawn tags with like, call it 10 to 20 tags per season. Yeah. And the elk populations are not really high either. But they're higher than the tags given. It could be higher than what they're given. So tag numbers is one of them. Genetics. Like you got, there's history. We have enough history. You talk about studies. Bronson, we know areas that we'll never produce. Call it the bighorn country of Wyoming for mule deer. Yeah, whatever. The feed, soil contents. Yeah, certain stuff like that. Weather patterns.

It's not known for it. So. Like I'm not going up there saying I'm looking for a 230, 240 buck. Now, I promise, please send your 230, 240 bucks to email jason at epicoutdoors.com for this area in Wyoming, north, central, northern, whatever. I'm not talking about G&H either. But I'll see those photos too. So send those. I'd love to look at them. I'm just saying. So yeah, like in a state like Arizona and New Mexico, I don't know there'd be a place in the state you could, and I'm sure somebody in those states would say, yeah, there's no genetics. There's nothing big in this area. But in general, or even Utah, not very many places you could say genetics wise, you don't have a chance to just kill a big bull. I don't think you could say bull. I'm talking elk. Yeah. I don't really know that you could. So really then it's about, okay, you go where the masses are and there's tons of elk, but

you got more people to deal with. Or usually if you can have a chance at a real giant, it's in a little bit of those fringe areas. Call them some of the 20s and 30s units that just, they're kind of on the southern end of where elk really live and thrive, but they live there. I love the fringe areas. Yeah. Like these desert areas in Nevada. Same thing in Nevada. Yeah. I mean, it's been long documented that you are the individual that got two 40s. So what's the problem with the book Cliffs for Elk in Utah? Like what in your mind, you would not think to go there for a giant, next level giant, but what's holding it back? Well, I mean, they've killed like the biggest six point I've ever had in my life. They did. The most beautiful six. Ever. There's never a prettier one. That's right. Scranti's Bull. No joke. But that was. It was an anomaly, we'll call it. Okay.

I think in general, not the roadless area. The roadless area has always been managed to cut above in terms of age, that seven to eight, kind of like San Juan, Beaver, Pavant, Monroe, Boulder. And maybe some of those bulls bleed out there later, but the regular book Cliffs feels like they just. Hunt it too hard. They've hunted. And it's easy. It's easy access. Yeah. So it feels like that from an elk standpoint. And to some extent, the same thing for deer. So deer, it's easy to access. So more pointed question. When you are looking for an area that's not known, let's just say it's not Boulder, Beaver, Panguitch, San Juan. When you're looking for an area, what would you choose without having the very best tax? Escapement, which is either roadless, wilderness, something that just certain people are not going to hunt there. Freaking thick trees. It might just. Yeah.

It doesn't mean you're 10 miles in. It's just, it might be. Yeah. You can't, you know, you've got to spend a few nights on the mountain out of your backpack, you know, two or three miles in like, you know, certain units in Utah or Nevada or Nevada or I guess Nevada is a bad example because everything's so limited entry in Nevada. Like there's no like, you could kill a big bull in almost any unit in the state in Nevada. It feels like. Nevada's the promised land. They just don't give enough tags. But, I mean, if we're talking other states like, you know, Utah or New Mexico or Arizona, some of those fringe areas are doing a weird season. Let's see. Why would you not choose 7 East over a unit 8? I think it's too easy to hunt in too many tags for that. An 8 is, you know, you and I both know. You still talk about a stump that stopped your truck in its tracks. It's so rough roads. Oh, dude.

That truck's never been the same. Did you sell it to somebody? And I'm looking to sell it to Logie Bay next time. No, I've actually got that problem fixed. It was a little, it was a four-wheel drive anyway. And it did. It's a rough roads, and it's got a lot of escapement in a unit like that. If you threw out a unit like 8, it's not known for a powerhouse, tons of big bulls, but it throws them for the number of points that you're going to draw. Burn, escapement, limited tags, things like that. Versus a 7 East. So, I guess. 7 East is easy to get around other than the peaks and, you know, that. I mean, they have the Kachina stuff up there. But Cash goes there and has a next level hunt. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. I've hunted there too before, but, you know, we're just talking in general. But I'm looking for like an 18A or something, 18B or something. Fringe. Fringe, desert, low density.

And you've got. I love that personally. You've got some private lands that harbors bulls, but now they roam off. Or reservation or whatever. Reservation boundaries. Those are things like that. I mean, I know we're talking about elk pretty much, but I guess. Well, we can talk about deer. Well, based on this guy, we kind of talked about. Let's talk deer now. Well, even coos deer. What are you looking for? Coos deer, I mean, bordering reservation is not a bad thing. Yeah. What's that? Some of the reservations are next level for a coos deer. San Carlos. You step on them and you feel like you've walked through a room and you're 50 years in the past. Yeah. When you get some of those places, you just do. So, yeah. What about mule deer then? Well. Let's talk about what do you look for for the people that want mule deer. I think it's my, what I would look for and you would look for.

I think we're similar, very similar. Might be different than what Scotty Thompson might look for. He's hunting high country stuff. Yeah. It's not what I can. I can for. And he does well. Low density desert dry area units myself. That's right. Like us. And Travis Hopps. That's where we grew up. Some of this stuff. It's like some of these guys like to hunt the higher country and they're doing really good at it. And I wouldn't necessarily do really well at it because we didn't grow up in that part of the state or Wyoming or Idaho. I learned how to live out here with the freaking scorpions and disgusting desert critters. The desert comes alive. What I like about the desert is there's always more than anybody ever would guess. Yeah. Especially when you can string a couple decent wet years together. Yeah. I mean, you kill a big buck outside. I could see the lights of Vegas. Right.

And that doesn't happen. Now that's. Jason, I can see that from 200 miles. Okay. So. And all of those units you should hunt. For all you people. You should hunt all of those units. To think you narrowed it down. Okay. That's a big circle. But I'm just saying out. I'm just saying out loud like that would be a unit. I don't know that. I don't know that I'll ever hunt it again. No. It's kind of one of those things you're like. You won one and just call it a day. Yeah. Well. Because you're probably not going to ever win down there again. Yeah. It doesn't have history. It doesn't have the history. And it's way susceptible to drought. Which we had gripping years down there. And it's just brought deer and sheep herds in southern Nevada to their knees. I mean, it really has. Yeah. And it doesn't have the history. I like. I think. There needs to be some history. It's. The soil's proven.

The feed's proven. There's. Genetics are proven. I like to have. There has to be a little history. If I'm going out on a limb and saying. I'm going to kill the first 200-inch or ever from this unit. I'm going to make history. No thanks. No. Exactly. If my forefathers didn't have big bucks, there's not big bucks. Yeah. There's got to be something to that. Don't you think? There's a lot of truth to that. Unless there's been. Call it some monumental change in that unit. Burns. Or who knows what that would be. But. Although we tease about the ochres. And then. You hear about a big deer on the ochres. I don't know. I mean. Those are in. The places we tease about. Probably ought to go there. Probably ought to go there. You'll be just fine. Well. Okay. I like. That was pretty good. That was pretty healthy. I don't know. Are we going to shred that? Are we done? Or we still got more?

Maybe next week? Logan's going for a week. I want one more thing. Because we got the little fellers here. Young. Not little. Young. Come on. Jeez. Young. I'm offended. Young. What. And you guys. You're not this. But I like to tease you a little bit. But Bronson. What? Because you're the senior member. John. Are you senior? I'm senior baby. You're the dadgum senior here at the table. What tips and advice would you give to new aspiring hunters?

Write to me Adam. What would you tell me? No. You're not new aspiring. I do like to tease you though. You guys are young compared to us. But what tips would you give?

Marry well.

Hey that's a good piece of advice. I'm going to take that one. A little private land. No. Marry well. I mean. Marry into some private land. I would just be able to go and be able to spend some time. How are you going to be able to spend time the rest of your life? Yeah. Your career and your wife. Those are a pretty big deal. They're a pretty big deal. So if you really care about hunting and fishing or whatever. Pick a career that you can be able to afford to do it. And be able to have a little bit of time. And then pick a good lady. Alright. That's mine. Now you guys get to really give them some hunting advice. Well but you also. And we've said this a lot over the last. It feels like three or four years. You have to be. In this day and age. You have to be willing to. To try to get by. Get more out of less. Meaning you. You're not going to draw elite tags.

If you're just starting to hunt right now. Right out of the gate. I'm just talking about from an odd standpoint. Yeah there may be some years you put in. Swing for the fence type units. And get lucky and hit one here and there. But you're going to have to. Hunt every one to three to five years. And turn around states like Colorado. Wyoming. Utah. And just. Just get hunting. Because it's just. It's changed a lot. If you know we. You know Jason and I. John. Maybe. We still have some units. We're in the 20s. Some points that have never drawn certain things. So. There's half of the states that we have had that many points we've already used. But. But we apply completely differently the second go around. Don't we? It seems like. Because. A hundred percent. I'm not waiting 20 years. 25. For every tag. But then there's other things where I'm like. I've killed. It's all I want.

A couple desert sheep. My next one better be. I'm talking. My next one better be next level. I'm talking deer and elk. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. Sheep is totally different. Or even. Goats. I'm done with those. Moose. I'm done with those. Pretty much. I haven't even started. But I'm done. What do you mean? What do you mean? Somebody's got Max up there in Montana. Well. I know.

All right. So. So I just think you have to be. Just get after it. Go hunting. There's nothing like learning. The learning you get from just grinding out hunts. Whether you're successful. And punch a tag or not. Like you have to be. Don't get caught up on the glitz, glamour, Instagram. And big stuff everywhere. That is such an inaccurate portrayal of the real. Reality of the units that you're going to probably have to hunt. If you're going to hunt. Because. We wait around for these elite tags. And they come and go here and then. But you're going to have to hunt general season. You're going to have to hunt easier to draw tags. Or you're not going to hunt. And I think you should learn. So. So. A little hunting advice. On my side. I think you should learn which states. Know when to hold them. And know when to fold them. Well. Like. Which states do you really hold out for the long term plan?

And which states do you hunt all the time? Hunt Colorado deer all the time. Yeah. Hunt all the time. Every year if you can. And then. But don't hold out for a 20 point unit in Colorado. All the time. But then maybe you use Arizona as. I'm going to hunt OTC archery. But I'm going to gain points. And that's my long term plan. I want something really special. Because I'm hunting Colorado. I'm getting satisfied up there. I'm hunting Utah general. I'm pretty well satisfied. I go OTC. Wyoming, Idaho. OTC Idaho, OTC Oregon even if you want it. Or whatever. And feel that fix. You know. I mean. Scratch the it. Get something killed. And then. But save points. And invest in the points. Invest in yourself. There's a lot of people out there that are saying points are no longer.

Points are not the future. Points are never going to work. Point systems don't work. And there's some places that's true. Maybe it is. But invest. Find the ones that are worth it to you. And invest the money in the points when you're young. You can buy points. But you can't buy time. You know what I'm saying? Like time gets away from you. And now you're 40 or 45. Whoever is out there. And you're going. Man I wish when I was 25. I would have done that. And the money that seemed like a lot back then is chicken feed now. Because I'm matured in my career. Yeah. You're not just right out of school. So anyway. Spend the money on points that make sense. Invest in yourself. Invest in yourself. John. Mine's very similar. Just realize.

First. Maybe stay off Instagram. And if you're really young. Just keep yourself happy. And go hunting. I would say. You guys should do a seven day fast. Have you done the seven day social media fast? When I was like a sophomore in high school. Yeah I did. Try it again. It was really hard. So I was like. Why don't you try it on this one? It's difficult. We should all do a seven day fast. Instagram's my job. How am I supposed to. Well yeah. Okay. Never mind. We'll wait until Josh gets back. Okay.

Sounds like I just lost my job. Applications getting fired up. Yeah. So just keep your expectations. Don't compare yourself to the highlight reel. I think there's. Especially if you're new. Well. Just go as much as you can. And then plan for the future. You're not going to draw those amazing tags typically. Until you have 20 points. I like what you're saying. Do you realize Bronson and John. We've talked about this at nauseam. There's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of deer tags. Okay. Take Colorado. You add Colorado to Utah to whatever. Wyoming, Idaho. Adam. Wyoming, Idaho. And then go look at Instagram's highlight reel. Let's say legit 200 inchers. And don't count the reposts of the same bucks either. Or angles. Or throw back Thursdays. Or bring back Tuesdays. Or here you go again Wednesdays. Or whatever. Look at the numbers that were actually killed.

Versus how many hundreds of thousands. That's what I meant. Don't get caught up. It's kind of like when we hunt with our kids. You know we've got kids that are like older teenagers or young 20s now. And you kind of just. Well like we're talking about Justin. You got to just get a tag somehow. Like just to get them hunting. That's the mentality you have to have. Especially. You got to. And you learn how to become a better hunter by going hunting. You can't put in for 10 or 20 years. And be. I don't know. And then think you're just going to go hunting. It just doesn't. You can't flip the switch. So you're going to have to. Go and fail. Go and learn. Be willing to accept that. And have a little bit lower standards. And if that's not the case. Be okay. Hunting your guts out. And eating your tag too. We're fine with that. It's not like. You know. You have to kill.

But you're just going to have to have a realistic expectation. It's a different world than. Back before states had point systems. And you know. Even people. Jason. 10 years older than you and I. That are 5 or 10 years older. That capitalized on some max point situations. Like sheep in Arizona. And maybe sheep in Wyoming. You know. Before we were really applying hard. You know what I mean. That. You know. Some of the biggest regrets. Yeah. Well. Exactly. Giving up a little early on. Stuff like that. Because. Or you knew you were already. Two or three years behind. Where you needed to be. And you'd be going through the same thing we did in Wyoming. The last two years. When they cut to 10%. So. You know. You know what's hard on me. And then. I want to go to cash. And talk about our tripod. And then give them. And then. I'm going to. We got some really good advice. On the very end. Wow.

Really hard on me to. We're trying to duplicate the experiences. You and I've had. We've had a couple real special ones. You can't duplicate them. Those are memories. That's right. Those are very cherished memories. So this is what I think. When something special happens. Lay there around a fire. All night long. With a full body deer. And just chill out with your buddies. Yeah. Like just do it. Because it's probably not going to happen again. A lot of times in the moment. You're like. Woohoo. Next year. We do again. We do again. And the next year comes. And the next year comes. And five and ten years pass by. And you can't make it happen again. Management won't allow for that. For it. The times have changed. The tactics have changed. The hunting has changed. The whole world's changed. If you kill some special ram. Up in the Northwest Territories. Enjoy it.

You might not be able to go back someday. You know what I mean. Yeah. These are memories. That you cannot just duplicate. Now sometimes. We get lucky. And we duplicate something. And it's awesome. But anyway. It's hard for me to wrap my head around. Those are memories. I just have to mention. That you said that. After we went on the Escalant. And you killed your desert sheep. And we. You know. Took us half a day. To hike down to them. And then. Yeah. We slept in the canyon. And. Where we killed him. Where we killed him. And. That was special. Yeah. It was. It was. Memories that we. I don't even want to make that memory again. Yeah. No. But it was special. But they were. But you're still talking about it. Yeah. I don't know. 20, 16 years. I don't know what it was. Yeah. They make it. They're part of who you are. Like they're part of your fiber. They make you who you are.

You know what I mean. Those. You're full of memories. You're a dude that's full of memories. But I think we did it right. And we laughed a lot. And we made a fire. And we. Just enjoyed that. You know. We sprayed deed around where we slept. Because of all the scorpions. And scorpions and. And for me and Jesus. Hey it worked. The deed barrier worked. Got a deed fence. But we joked about it. It was fun. It was really fun. Eight. Eight. Eight. Most succulent sheep meat ever. Wow. And it's also nice. Because you know when you're eating it. You're not packing it out. Yeah. That piece. But there is. It's all true. All right. So Cash. Yeah. Give us a real quick update on our tripod. Just some kind of learning curves on these tripods. Some. I've had people ask a few different times. One of my buddies was asking whatever. But I kind of learned a few different tricks with this tripod.

Is these knobs. The pan knob. And the handle knob. Are both spring loaded. You can pull that. And adjust that. Whichever way you want. When it's tight. So it's out of the way. It's not. John. We knew this. It's convenient. We should have done better at training. We could do a follow up. We need to do a follow up. YouTube. YouTube. So. Yeah. And the reason that's important is. You get your hands. Like just. Where you like them. Your muscle memory. And the knobs right where you want it. Well let's say you turn the knob. And the lever is going the wrong direction. Well you just pull it out. There's a couple for instances Cash. That you brought up. That's kind of changed me too. Yeah. Even though you kind of know you can keep screwing with it. We always just get it out of our pack. And make it work. Right. Yeah. We do. And so one day I was just sitting there dinking with one.

And the clamp that holds the handle. Yeah. I pulled that off. And you know other handles. They'll just fall out. And this one doesn't fall out. Which is great. You're not going to lose it. But I was just dinking with it. I was like there's got to be some way that that pin can come out. And so it's threaded in there. I learned it. It's threaded. You can completely flip it. So it goes on this other side. You can fork. Like there's like six different ways. The way you mount it gives you more. Right. Finger space. More finger space. Things like that. On the tensioner. Yeah. So we're going to have a little picture diagram. Diagram. Yeah. On our magazine this month. Yeah. Collage. That's what I was looking for. And it's going to kind of break it all down. So just another feature of how this tripod is very customizable to you. Whether you're left handed, right handed. You like it forward.

You like it back. You like a higher load or whatever. Spring loaded knobs are a big deal. When you're sitting there panning. And I'm panning this morning. And I'm like you just like to barely touch something and pan ever so slight. I love that. The fluidity of this head is just amazing. Right. You can do it with your bridge of your nose a lot of times. Yeah. I love that. When you're sick, your hand needs to be down for a minute. Yes. Just sit there and just use it with your bridge of your nose. Yes. And you can adjust that tensioner. But if the tensioner is here versus here versus whatever. Your spring loaded tensioner. Like what you're talking about. Those littlest things that you take for granted. You don't even think about because we just are used to as hunters making do. Right. Exactly. You don't have to make do. Yep. So if you already own one of these tripods, great. Mess with it.

Play with it. Get it to where you want it. If you don't own one, get your hands on one. They're awesome. They're cheap, man. They're the best ones that I've ever had my hands on. They're cheap for what tripods cost. Exactly. And we're talking about our flagship Epic Ultra. Correct. Tripod. Talking $466. That includes the head and a plate. Everything. Everything you need. The light one obviously has completely different uses. You used that. I took one of those to NWT. Like that's what it's used for. Did it truly replace your Gitzo? Yeah. And it's probably going to – well, you run it with like a 65-millimeter scope or something more. A little bit lighter. So you're not packing with a 95 there. I mean, you're just not. But yeah, we're talking about the Ultra. You've got a lot more adjustment there. The head has a lot more fluid in some of these adjustments we're talking about because

it's slightly bigger and heavier. And it's meant to carry a little heavier low, BTX or a big 95 or something like that. All right. What else? Was there anything else you guys wanted to talk about a little bit? I think that was about it. Just kind of the customization you can put with that and just kind of how much adjustment there is. Okay. Wow. There's some new things we're working on. We're going to – there'll be some updated stuff. I don't want to say yet. But anyway, it's awesome. Just very much. Some minor changes that we thought, yeah, we'll tweak this and that. No. For next year. Yeah. Yeah. Probably have a little bit bigger model maybe also. So, all right. Logan, what do you got for us? Wanted to talk about Zeiss and their brand new line of Conquest HDX binoculars. You have a pair. I do. Yeah. What do you think? I've been using them for the last four weeks now and I love them.

You've been using the 10s? Yeah. 10x42 for the last four weeks. I love them. Slow rolling the pines? Yep. Slow rolling the pines. I've used them for some longer range stuff too just to make sure I got an accurate sample size of everything that you'd use them for. Yeah. I really like them. Crisp. They're really crisp. A lot of light. They sleeked them down a lot. They lost like three and a half ounces from the old. So, they're just a little bit lighter but they made them. The old Conquest. Uh-huh. They made them a lot more comfortable to hold. Ergonomic. Yep. Better hold. From an already comfortable binocchio there. And that's my big thing with 10s. Gotta like to hold them. Not only are they affordable, they're extremely affordable. For what you get, it's amazing. For here at Epic Outdoors. Yeah. So, if you buy from us, trust me, best pricing ever. Absolutely. Okay.

So, the best piece of advice, I left it for you two young fellers. Oh. What advice would you give to kids younger than you?

Go ahead, Logan. I'll let you go first. I know what I'm going to say, but I'll let you go first. Yeah. For me, like growing up hunting with my dad and just barely getting to where I'm branching out and kind of doing my own thing, it's really intimidating because I'm worried about going somewhere and, I don't know, messing up, not seeing anything, not being able to do anything right. And I just, what Jason talked about, betting on yourself, putting some stock in yourself, you know how to hunt. And you can learn if you don't. And I think to go along with what he said, Colorado is the best place to hone your hunting skills along with your home state generals. But if you want to hunt somewhere new and learn how to figure out deer, how to figure out hunting, Colorado is the place to do it. Spend some time over there, hunt some new units, branch out a little bit.

I mean, it's kind of intimidating, but I've really loved being able to branch out and just trust myself a little more over this last couple of years. Yeah. I like it. To kind of caveat what Logan was saying, I grew up, I didn't get to hunt very much growing up. So I never, I can never really say that I had a mentor. You know, a lot of kids growing up have their dad, their uncle, whatever. And like, we hunted a little bit. So I never really had a mentor. If you want to get into it, just dive in. Just, you know, find things that you can study, watch what other people are doing. Just kind of, yeah. YouTube, the crap out of things. Like, I can't tell you how many hours and hours of YouTube I watched of just watching people's hunts and not just watching them, but studying them, you know, kind of watching what that deer is doing, whatever it is.

And then kind of like what Logan said is bet on yourself, you know, get out and explore. Don't get so stuck on one area and one particular deer or whatever. The last, since I moved down here, really, we, we got really, really good at hunting this one spot and we, you know, like we know exactly the route that these deer take and, and whatever. And it's just kind of a luck thing, whether they do come this way that morning or not. And it's been really nice the last couple of years to kind of branch out and explore new country because you, you just learn so much more. So adventure, get away from people. Sometimes people aren't a bad thing, but just spend time outside of that too. It just comes down to time. The more time you can spend, the more you're going to learn, the more you're going to learn. The better you're going to be. And don't be, don't be afraid to, to screw it up.

You're going to screw it up. I did this year already once. And it was something that I thought was so slam dunk. It was so easy. Done deal. It can be 50 year olds. Yeah. Screw something up. Yeah. And don't be afraid to make mistakes. We never screw it up. Whatever happened, it was supposed to happen. It was for the better. And at the end, you'll be grateful. Right. Right. Right.

All right. Yeah. But don't be, don't be afraid to make mistakes. You're going to make mistakes. Everyone, everyone says it. If you like, especially bow hunting, if you bow hunt long enough, you're going to wound one and one's going to get away. At some point in your life, it will happen. You don't, you don't think it's going to happen on a 35 yard shot, whatever, blah, blah, blah. But it happens. And, and after that, do your due diligence. Look for that stinking thing. If you can't find it, do, you know, do your best. Your best is good enough and you're going to learn and get your friends into it. It's better with friends. It's harder solo. Yeah. And if you don't have a mentor, just dive in head first. All right. I like it. Well, anything else or we freaking covered it in two hours, boss. Were you over two hours? We were at two hours. Jeez. Just hit the mark right now.

By the time Logan, yeah, two hours, 32 seconds. By the time he takes out a few things, we're going to be under two. So we better go for a few more minutes. No. No. We're going to leave it on a question. You really want one more? No. No. No. No. That was a joke. I got to go pick up my truck. I got about five minutes to get down there. Did you get the wine and calm down? No. Just had us patch the tire. Oh. Ooh. Okay. How to find big bucks and bulls when nine to five, wife, little kids, is necessary right now. That's tough. That goes to what John's doing. John, you've got a lot of wrinkles from it. When I did, we scouted and we made it back to work. Yep. And then we scouted and we took little kids and it was brutal and it was tough. But when you're young, you've got the energy to do it. Now I couldn't do it again. So my kids are on the ground, grown and out. And I'm grateful.

And wearing you out just watching them. They wear me out still to this day. Everybody be safe out there. Have fun. Good luck. Let's face it. If your goal is to kill big stuff, you need to draw quality tags. Quality tags are typically hard to draw. To increase your odds of drawing good tags, you need to apply in multiple states. That's where an Epic Outdoors membership can help. For only $150 a year, you get access to our consultants, our online tools, and to Epic approved outfitters and members only optics discounts. With unlimited access to our team of consultants and access to the Epic Outdoors magazines, applying in multiple states is easy. No more worrying if you're applying for the best areas. No more applying for a unit where there has been a die off. And no more missing opportunities where you could be in the field and not sitting at home.

Go online at epicoutdoors.com or call us today at 435-263-0777 to find out how you can become a member today. Kuyu is the most uncompromising camo on the market. Their new Guide Pro Series is the toughest, most comfortable camo you will ever own. Check out their new additions and shop men and women's camo now at kuyu.com. That's K-U-I-U dot com. K-U-I-U dot com. Whether you're hunting sheep in the high, rocky altitudes or low-crawling sagebrush for those desert muleys, K-U-I-U-U dot com. Check out their world-class Mountain Extreme line and their brand new Bridger High boots at K-U-I-U dot com. K-U-I-U dot com. Applying for tags in multiple western states can be time-consuming. At Epic Outdoors, we have you covered. Whether you want to expand your hunting portfolio or simply ensure that you never miss a deadline

again, the Epic Outdoors License Application Service is exactly what you need. It's like having the best CPAs in the finance world do your taxes. Let the best hunting application gurus in the world do your tag applications. You'll never miss a deadline. You'll never apply for the wrong unit. And you'll never apply for a unit that's having a die-off. Your time is valuable. We do the work. You draw the tags. Epic Outdoors License App. 435-263-0777. With fierce rifles, every detail matters. They are hands down one of the best rifle manufacturers in the industry and they never seem to stop making new innovations.

If you want to get serious about your long-range shooting, call us to talk over your options for your next fierce rifle. Epic Outdoors is an official fierce rifle dealer. Our consultants know their whole line of rifles inside and out. 435-263-0777. Epic Optics is an authorized dealer for Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, Vortex, Leopold, Kawa, Sig Sauer, and more. Here at Epic Optics, we are committed to getting you the best deal for the glass that fits your needs. Go to epicoptics.com or call in to speak with our consultants who will fit you with the perfect optics for your next hunt. 435-263-0777. If you're looking for your next hunting property, look no further than St. James. St. James are the experts at all sporting properties across the West. Their team of agents will spend the time getting to know you personally and find out which property

out of the hundreds they have listed is perfect for you. If you've always wanted a property where you could hunt and fish, go online to stjamessportingproperties.com or give them a call at 855-711-7577 to learn more. Red Rock Precision Rifles are at the pinnacle of custom rifles. They make no compromises in terms of quality, accuracy, and reliability. They will build the perfect rifle for you in both feel and performance. Epic Outdoors is an official Red Rock dealer. Call us to talk over your options for your next Red Rock rifle or go to redrockprecision.com to learn more. Vortex makes optics for every occasion. Whether you're a long-range shooter dialing in that perfect shot or an archery hunter in need of an easy-to-carry optic without sacrificing quality, Vortex has you covered. Head over to epicoptics.com or call us to learn more about your Vortex options today at 435-263-0777.

From top-of-the-line hunting blinds to game calls that can't be beat, GSM Outdoors has you covered for whatever outdoor equipment you need. For all of their products, head over to gsmoutdoors.com to learn more. Thompson Long Range has perfected the art of simple, affordable long-range shooting. If you don't want to calculate ballistics or adjust your turrets before making a shot, a Thompson Long Range system is for you. Simply range, place the hash mark for that distance on the animal, and pull the trigger. They make top-quality rifles and host a shooting school that will leave you confident in making shots out to 1,000 yards. Visit ThompsonLongRange.com to learn more about purchasing your next rifle or booking your next shooting school experience. The crew at Epic Outdoors trust StealthCam trail cameras to get us through the scouting season.

StealthCam is the leading trail camera brand because they never stop innovating. Check out their brand new line of trail cameras, including the Revolver 360-degree camera, at StealthCam.com. Epic Outdoors is an official StealthCam dealer. Call us to order yours today at 435-263-0777. PhoneScope changed the game with their digiscoping innovations and have remained the top phone-to-optic adapter on the market. Check out the incredible new Carbon Pro PhoneScope now at PhoneScope.com. P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P-E.com. Outdoor Edge is the knife that we all use here at Epic Outdoors. Whether it's a replaceable blade or fixed blade, you will not be disappointed with your Outdoor Edge knife. Head over to OutdoorEdge.com and check out their brand new Razor VX knife today. Epic Outdoors is proud to be an official Zeiss dealer and optics partner.

When it comes to top-tier quality, Zeiss has been a leader in the industry for generations. If you're in the market for new optics, give us a call for unbelievable deals on Zeiss products. Giving you the highest quality and durability out there without breaking the bank is what makes Zeiss so good. Check out our website, EpicOptics.com, or call us at 435-263-0777 to find out which Zeiss optic is perfect for you. Epic Outdoors is now an official CVA Muzzle Loader dealer. If you're in the market for a new Muzzle Loader, our staff can go over the different options that you should consider. CVA Muzzle Loaders are the go-to Muzzle Loader for Epic Outdoors and crew. We've definitely got our favorite setups for Western Big Game hunting in stock. Call us today at 435-263-0777 to find out which CVA is perfect for your next hunt.