EP 325: Pre-Season Q&A Part 2, The Rise and Fall of Our Favorite Units, Tips For Saving Cape and Hide and More!

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Hey everybody, Jason Carter and the Epic Outdoors crew coming at you from southern Utah. We got Wyatt. How you doing Wyatt? I'm here. Josh? Good. Got you Cash? Good. John Peterson? Hey, hey. Devin? Present. Accounted for. Logie Bear, he's here. Always here. Yeah, fully engaged. I like it. I don't know about always. I'm cutting this one out if we go over this again. How many hours on average does Logie Bear work here at the office? And then how many days a week? 32.3. That's pretty good. Claiming full time. Yeah. What generation are you? Z. Z's always do what? 32 equals 40 or 30 equals 40? I thought you were supposed to charge time and a half. That's after 40, Logie. Shoot. Friday's a weekend, apparently. Yeah. Four days a week. All days out of the year. You guys are never here on Fridays. I'm here most Fridays. What are you talking about?

We don't know what takes place on Fridays at the office.

Only in the summer. Might have to review the footage. John? I guess this time I'm going to pull it up.

John has collected some pretty amazing footage. On our security camera? Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. How about the time we were trying to track the guy that dumped a bunch of leaves?

Oh, let's go over that. Branches. So we have this one little dumpster, right, that's made for our office and anybody else that rents from us? It gets abused. It totally gets abused. And so we're like, that's it. Somebody loaded the dumpster. Branches and grass clippings. And nobody's saying anything, right? Because there's no way you can catch the guy. It's like, John, take half a day and go figure it out. John, what do you do? Go take half a day to figure it out. What did you find, John? It was WB. Wyatt has no idea. How many windows does your office have that we all can hear everything that's going on? I mean, in his little security room, you have no idea what you're doing over there. Okay. I felt like the office stopped for a minute and we were like, this was a project and you were silent. That's what I kind of felt like. Josh, what did you think? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

All of a sudden it's like, huh, there's a brown tundra unloading all of this crap. Yeah. And John's like, wait, it's still here. It's right here. It's in the parking lot.

I looked at it. I'm like, that's Wyatt. I think I actually admitted to it before we found the brown tundra. So from now on, we have no problems with that. Just admit it up front. So from now on, we'll start saying, whoa, the garbage is full. And Admiral will be like, hey, it was me. It was me. Don't go to the footage. It was me. Pretty funny. We also have caught other people doing janky stuff. That's pretty awesome. We missed our calling in life, especially with Wyatt on board. He could be the DNA specialist.

Don't know where that's going. John and I are good. We tracked down, I mean, basically like the year cars were made and all kinds of colors, even though it's black and white and 14 other variations. Yeah. License plates, baby. Yeah. It's kind of fun, right? Yeah. So to figure out if Logie Bear is putting in 30 or 32 or 30 or his claimed 45, we could figure that pretty easy, couldn't we? Not a problem, Logan. By the way, how do you feel about this digital footprint? Well, maybe we'll let Devin lead this off. We had a pretty heavy discussion about the digital footprint out there that we're all leaving and the trackability of absolutely everything through OnStar, whatever. Cell phones, AI. Google can tell you what side of the bed you sleep on? Yeah. What? What? Yeah, they can. Are you serious? Well, where your phone is on which nightstand? Holy crap. Oh.

When you go to find your iPhone, I can tell where in my house my wife's phone is. But like which side of the bed? That's pretty specific. That is. Like that's... Getting old. Yeah. Wow. It's slightly unnerving. The mic's always on. Just remember. Yeah, that's right. And then with AI and listening and then all of a sudden these pop-up ads and we all know what's happening and people like Logan embrace it. Yeah. His generation embraces it. Logan, you want to be chipped I think even, right? Oh. If Elon came knocking, I'd be there in two seconds. Oh. Would you put a chip in your hand? No. Absolutely not. Just for the ease of running a credit card at the gas pump? No. I don't think I could. What if it came with a $500 allowance per month? 100% you would do it. 500? Yeah. No. You would too. Like you test it out and they said, okay, you test this out. You would. Only 500 bucks? No way. A month?

A month. But this is what goes through their mind. Every month you get 500. This is what goes through these kids' minds. Five grand maybe. Oh my gosh. They're one of billions or millions and billions. And they're like, who cares? He knows I went to Taco Bell. You know? Hunter Biden knows I went here or went there or down to Vegas. I mean, who cares? That's what they think. They don't think, my life's boring. I don't care. But then what happens? Who knows, right? They're using that information. Like the TikTokers, like everybody knows. They all know, but they don't care. China has everything. They don't care. I heard something about people. Not you and General Logan, but your generation. People. Your people. Yeah, I mean, it's been since I was little that I've had Instagram and Snapchat. You guys have been groomed for just everybody knowing everything and being able to track

and you don't even care. It just doesn't even bother me anymore. That's my point. We've got to admit it. That there's people in China that put rocks in their shoes so they walk different because they can face recognition and they can see your gait and identify where you are and what you're doing. Come on. I haven't heard that. Does that not bother you? That would bother me. Because like... But no, but your generation says, who cares how I walk? I don't care. So they know I have a different gait. Who cares? Yeah. Yeah. But as soon as you start to get into the face recognition and they know my face on government security cameras, that's where I start to get a little... Do you have TikTok? Yeah, I've got TikTok. They know it. It's already done. They know your face. Would you ever want to give up TikTok? No, you wouldn't. I'm going to answer that for you. I think I could give up TikTok.

I wasn't that mad when they were thinking about banning it in the US. You weren't that mad because you still had it. Yeah, that's true. You could switch to something else. Yeah. I mean, Instagram and Facebook and Twitter, they got videos for days. Do your little stances somewhere else? Yeah, exactly. How about you go into the airport and now they're recognizing your face. You don't have to show my D. Oh, that's weird. Waka, waka. Where is that? Did it? Oh, it happened to me. It's the quick background check or whatever. What's it? Instead of like quick ID or whatever? Instead of showing a passport and stuff. Yeah. Whoa. I walked up and they were like, yeah, you're good. Yeah, exactly. Wow. You got four kids. You live in St. Louis, Utah. You sleep on the right-hand side of the bed. You buy a whole lot of monsters. You do it. You need to watch what you're drinking. We are.

You should be concerned if we're concerned. I mean, it's 100% the way it's going, right? Yeah. I know these guys. It kind of came up because I had a law enforcement buddy who said they tracked a vehicle with OnStar. And they, you know, so this vehicle gets stolen. We watch it rip up into Utah, pull it over, yada, yada. I mean, even if, and I'm like, can that work if OnStar's not even, you're not even an active subscriber or whatever. It's 100%. 100%. So now I'm looking for carbureted vehicles. I got a couple. Are they running? All my kids have carbureted vehicles.

Are they in working condition? Yeah. Yeah. As of yesterday. I don't know, Devin. This, this, I can see you're already, it's already kind of gone down a weird road. We should just dive into these questions. I think we probably should. Question reader guy. He's, he definitely moved us on. Why, does that bother you any of this? Well, you were kind of getting in, I want to go back to some of this stuff. You were kind of getting into the investigative, investigative side of things in life. A little bit, yeah. Like, I think some of this stuff excites you. It's interesting. Yeah, very interesting. Very interesting.

Depending on which side of the law you're on. That's, that's very true too. But I agree with everyone else. Let's move on. Question reader guy. Wyatt hates the spotlight. Don't worry, Wyatt. We're not going to embarrass you this time. All right. Pollock. Okay. So what, so what do we got going here? We basically had a load of questions and even had some responses out there in the big wide world after the last question and answer. I haven't shared a couple of those responses with you guys, but anyway. About the 200 inches. Really good. Yeah. Yeah. Really good. The one, the one kid that said, I, you know, was wondering why I haven't performed as well. Killing bigs. You know, anyway, it wasn't meant that way. Oh, okay. He was super, he was awesome. And, and it is. He didn't come off that way. Well, it's good. You could, it depends on how you read it, right? Yeah.

Just like reading text or email. Yeah. It depends on your attitude that day. Yeah. He didn't mean it that way. He's just, he said it was all in fun. And, and it does spur on really good conversation and the state of the union, as far as big mule deer are concerned and kind of brings up a lot of, you know, good conversation. So anyway, it's not, not offended whatsoever. Just kind of interesting. All right. Okay. Here we go. This is a good one. Get started off. The hunts are, some, some hunts are underway just a little bit, but a lot of them get going this weekend. Which is what, Saturday? Today's Thursday? Yeah. We're talking like two days. Yeah. Stuff gets real. For Utah, they're already killing in Nevada. Yeah. They're killing actually, I mean, I don't know. I guess it feels like less than average quantity wise, but fairly good quality when one does die. Yeah.

Is that what you guys would characterize it as? Yeah. Yeah. Arizona Gov tags, sheep in New Mexico. Yeah. You know, there's a few things hitting the dirt. All right, Pollock. Okay. So, McCade Hatch wants to know, post-killing game handling, mainly away from home. If I'm, if I'm on an out of state hunt with a buddy and one of us fills our tag on day one, what have you guys done in the past? We've primarily used coolers, but I'd like to hear what, what options people use. Awesome podcast. Thanks. Yeah. Dive in. Who's first? I'm the same as him. I always use coolers and fill them with ice. Yeah. Just keep it cold. Depends on the time of year and where you're at, really, I guess, huh? Mm-hmm. Colorado be easy. Yeah. Sometimes with later seasons, it's easier to keep them. But, I mean, summer antelope seasons, you've got to get them cooled down and out of there pretty quick. Yeah.

I use coolers, too. I pack it with, like, a row of a bunch of ice on the bottom, meat, ice, meat, ice, meat, ice kind of thing, and then open up the drain or crack the drain a little bit so it's just not bathing in water. Yeah. You know what I mean? I always put them in ice and bags full of it so that the water hopefully can't get out at all. Okay. That makes sense. I don't. I might always just just straight ice and meat, and then I break the bottom out, and then that way you've got, you know, it just mainly stays as ice, and then you just replenish it as needed. Chestens a little cooler tray a handful of times. Yeah. And that keeps it up out of the water two inches, and you can keep that crack, and it just keeps rolling it through so it doesn't sit on the meat. But, like, Colorado 3rd, this happens a lot because you go as groups.

So you either take it and get it dealt with, processed, if you're close to a processing, or leave it in the cooler, and it's nice because it's cold, man. Cold. It freaking freezes every night. But it's awkward when you're driving around with a cape and a deer, dead deer, and all the meat and everything. But that's why I like a camper shell or something like that, a tonneau cover or something along those lines in Colorado on some of those hunts. So you. We've, sometimes if you look, it depends on where you're at, but we've had, like, sometimes towns will have, like, a service for that. I remember last year we put a buck in a walk-in cooler for, like, five bucks a day. Wow. I was there for four days, my brother's deer. And so where would you find something like that? It was on the grocery store wall. We asked the guy. Oh. And he's like, yeah, just, here's the number. And it worked.

It was full of, yeah, something full of meat, just little towns like that. Some taxidermist could even just, I have this cold cooler, might as well pull five bucks out of this kid. You know what I mean? Yeah. Something like that. Because it's going to be on no matter what. If you're up in the mountains, I'll say you're packed in somewhere or something like that. If you notice, you guys have probably seen it. It's obviously not going to work in the desert. But if you have to put your meat up somewhere and you don't have a cooler or whatever, put it, find some timber, like, in a little bit of a bottom. I don't know if there's some water, like, even a wallow or a spring or something like that.

If you go on the north side of a hill and find a little wallow or a spring, if there's something that's close to that, if you hang it up in the trees and it's getting, I mean, shoot, Pengwich, it was 47 this morning. Yeah, it's getting cold. Like, it's, even though it's hot during the day, it's still chilly enough at night. And you can cool meat down fairly easily. I mean, that's fridge temperatures getting close, too. And it'll hang a lot cooler on the north side in some trees and timber, especially over a little bit of a cooler water source or something. You can get a little extra time out of it, not saying you want to leave it there for a week. But if you don't have coolers packed in somewhere or something, that's something that I've seen in the past done. I like it. It does seem like I see less and less.

Like, the old days, you would, you know, you'd hunt and drive and you'd see deer hanging in camp all over the place. Yeah. I just feel like I see less of that, you guys. Definitely. Yep. You know, I want to talk about, this is just food for thought. I want to talk, John, about one of your favorite memories ever, which was my desert sheep hunt in the Escaline Desert. Oh, yeah. Okay. So, we're packed in and we kill a sheep, but then, so we kill it and then we spend all night with it. And then, by the time you get packed out, you're another, like, two and a half days before we hit the truck. I want to say roughly. A little bit of a minute. But you could easily, it was 87, 90 degrees in the middle of the day. It was toward the last half of September out in the Escalante Desert. And you don't have a fridge. You don't have coolers. You don't have ice. I was kind of half nervous.

A, I got this cape. B, I've got the meat. I don't want to be that guy that loses the meat. And so, what we had done was take emergency blankets with us, extra emergency blankets. So, we laid the meat out all night on this emergency. And then, we packed it up in the emergency blanket, put another emergency blanket around it, put another emergency blanket around it, and then put it in the center of the pack so it wasn't next to your back, sweating and hot. And then packed everything around it, hiked all day. The next night, laid it out. Yeah. Ate it. I mean, we were eating it. And anyway, not one bit of it went bad. The cape was fine. The meat was fine. And, you know, but in the back of your mind, you're so trained that you're going to lose meat in September. But if you just pay attention a little bit and just doing what we, at night, it wasn't like, it wasn't 47 degrees.

I don't know, it was 65 or whatever. But by doing what we did, I don't know, it worked. Yeah. Right? So, you can. I think that's what you can do. And don't let it continue to get hot. Like you're saying, if you are going to be in there, you do have to, especially with capes and stuff, if you have, like, a frozen water bottle or a block of ice or something like that, wrap it up around the middle of it. But if you don't have that, just take the cape and at least the first night, whatever you do, either stretch it out. I would say get it off the ground if you can hang it, but put, like, the flesh part of the skin together just so it overlaps each other once because you don't want it to dry out either. So, just put, like, the flesh part of the skin, skin to skin together, and then hang it in the tree so that it's got air flowing all the way around it.

And then, before the sun comes up in the morning, grab it and roll it up. And throw it in. Yep. And it'll maintain some of that cool temperature. So, you know, it's going to take it a while to get back up to hot again if it starts at cool and you've got it protected a little bit. You may have to do that. And by that, next night, you've got it rolled out again. Yeah. Flesh to flesh. Let it come back down to temperature. Yep. And so, that's what we did, too, on the cape. Man, it was fine. It was fine. Yeah. Oh, it's fine. It's fine. If you have velvet, you're probably going to want to, you're going to have to find a fridge, a freezer. Yeah. You're going to have to go home or, you know, go somewhere, like Devin's saying. Yeah. Pretty quick if it's velvet. Great thought. Devin, what do you got going? The last velvet buck I killed, shout out to John Mogul Affairs.

I came off the hill and threw it in his cryogenic freezer. Oh, for the barrels. He wasn't even there. For the rifle barrels. Yeah. So, does that really. I walked through the shop with his deer head and the people are like, who the freak is this guy? You know? Yeah. Yeah. It cooled off fast, but it was like, I was worried about it. So, those cryogenic freezing, that was really popular, I want to say, like 25 years ago. And it may still be, maybe they still do it. But tell us a little bit about the cryogenic freezing. It does not align. It does not align. Well, they were even doing it on steel barrels. Yeah. And maybe it wasn't working. But it's like, it aligns the makeup of the metal or carbon or whatever and allows it to cool better. Yeah. And. I couldn't speak to the exact science of it. But yeah. But a lot of that carbon, they have to have it frozen all the time. Yeah.

So, do you feel like they're still kind of, is that still a thing? As far as I know. Here and there. Yeah. Who knows? Maybe it's a. You treat them. Inside. Get them really cold at least once and it does something. It does something to them. At the molecular level. Yes. That's what I'm talking about. The lines and molecules. Yeah. Yeah. That was fun. I wish I knew a little more about it. And if it even was a thing anymore. Anyway, it was a thing there for a minute. At least it was thought to work. So, Josh, since you've been involved with some taxidermy, what, how big a problem is like having a cape that goes bad? Or is it most people are fine? I've never had a problem with that. I just wondered, is it a big problem? As far as, does it happen a lot? Yeah. Does it happen a lot? It comes in and it's like, this cape is not usable.

Well, especially over in those small towns, they're dragging Maine. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Not as much as it used to because people don't even drag Maine anymore. What do they do? I don't know. Logan, what do you guys do? Just open the tailgate in the front yard and let people drive past and gawk at it. I don't know. And throw it up on social? Yeah, that's right. What's your theories, Josh? What's your ideas? Oh, they're just too busy eating Cheetos and playing video games to even care. Okay. All right. All right.

So, things don't go bad. Things don't go bad as often now. Yeah, but, you know, it used to be the thing. You would literally throw a deer in the truck and drive around and see that kind of stuff. I don't think it happens as much anymore. People are pretty quick. A lot of times, they get off the mountain. If it's something good, they get off the mountain and they've probably already been in contact with a taxidermist or something like that. So, you don't see it as much. But I've seen it on extended trips when you're there with somebody else and you're trying to kill two things. And it's just a matter of you've got to try and keep – a lot of times, you'll see people will bring a cape into you and they're so worried about cutting the hide on the cape that they're leaving stakes attached to the cape. And that's going to be the worst thing because you could actually take really good care of

your cape, but you leave a big chunk of meat on there. There's always that little bit of meat that sits there right on top that's hard to get off. I mean, I've literally carved stakes off of things. I don't want to cut that cape. Cape steak. I'd rather have a – you'd rather have a nice straight line cut through the cape. You can sew that up easy. It's not a big deal. If it's in the face and stuff, that's different. But on the neck or something like that, on the shoulders, whatever, you don't need to be that crazy careful. And if you cut it right there, it's not that big a deal if you're cutting it from the inside out. But I feel like taxidermists are very critical of us poor guys. Oh, yeah. Like we don't – not like we've – it's not our job. Like we don't know how to do it like you guys. You guys can do it right to the freaking edge of the skin and perfect.

If we cut a line in there, you'd complain. If we have a mini steak on there, you complain. If it's slightly warm, you complain. If there's a piece of grass on it, you guys would complain.

There's a lot of times – Don't you feel judged by the taxidermist? Every time. Sometimes. Sometimes they can be too clean. All I said, don't leave steak attached. So dive into that a little more. Like what do you mean? Well, just, you know, like sometimes it's easier for them to have a little bit of meat to start on the flesher. Yeah. To just get it once. Right, Josh? Like – Yeah. Yeah. I've been told that. He's already judging what you're talking about. He's like, no, what he wants to say is you're full of shiz. No, that's not right. No, I'm not. I've – It is nice because then when you grab a hold of that steak, you can have something to hold on to to cut it off. So steaks are nice, but that guy's a POS because he doesn't know what he's doing. No, I'm just saying if you leave one there, that's where it's going to slip.

You're going to have a bald patch, and then that's a big deal because you can't patch a bald patch. But that's what I'm saying. Like you can sew a line and cut in a cape, but you can't sew in a piece. But then if you bring the whole animal because you've been judged so many times and you're like, hey, just take it off the way you want it, then they'll be like, yeah, can't even figure out how to cape an animal. Charge extra. That's another $100 bill. Tell me I'm wrong. David? Yeah. What? I agree. I'm not a taxidermist, so don't haze me.

That's not a truly accurate statement. Not all taxidermists are created equal either. Oh, yeah. It's like I remember bringing heads to a guy who does European mounts. And I mean, I got these things cleaned up. They're caped. The eyes are out. All the nasty flesh. I'm like, this guy's going to give me a discount. You know? No. I had three or four of them. And yeah, he's like, I was like, yeah, I got these cleaned up. He's like, well, next time, you know, I prefer if you just leave it all. Yep. Like, what do you mean leave it all? He's like, hair and all. Because when they cook them, when you do them, those European mounts, the heat gets trapped under the hide. Yeah. And all that stuff just separates. It's actually better. And then you pop it up, and it just. I would agree with that. See, I didn't know that. So I killed Chief. We were taking him up to the show.

And I'm like, well, you skin it off. But then I boil him out. But I know I didn't do it right. You know what I mean? Like, what's the right way? What's the right procedure? But if you want something that's a European mount, and you're taking it to somebody who does European mounts, don't skin it. Yeah. Just leave the hide on the face. Which just feels so like. Oh, they're going to want. They're going to. It feels wrong. They're going to judge you. Can you believe Devin Archibald? He's been around for 30 years. Didn't even take the hide off. You know what I mean? Didn't even take the hide off. I mean, who does this? Kind of lop the head off? Who does that? That's what I thought. I could have had the cape and sold it to the next guy or given it to the next guy. It's a beautiful double throat pad. You know what I mean? Have we not heard it all? But leave the flesh on. Everything.

Like, if you have to cape it, leave all the eyes. Everything. Yeah. I think those are something that. Totally backwards of what I thought. When you go to boil one, if you boil it in with the hide on there. I mean, sometimes I'll maybe cut the ears off. You just throw the whole head in there. Obviously, you just cut it off of the neck. You throw it in there. For three hours, you do that. And you just go take a knife. And you go to cut, like, right across to the head. It just goes. It looks like. Did you have a video of that? Did you show me a video of that? I think so. I think you did. So how are you keeping the nose bones all intact so it looks awesome? You know what I mean? Because you can boil them too long. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You just have to be really careful with them and clean them off really good. Pay attention.

But, no, it actually, like, the meat and everything almost stay stuck to the hide rather than, like, starting to dry up and get stuck to the bone. It'll actually kind of stick to the hide more and it all comes off. It actually makes them cleaner. Yeah. That one surprised me. Thought I was doing the guy a huge favor. Yeah. No. Totally backwards. And if you'd have done it the opposite way, it'd have been like, I appreciate this, but, you know. There's some ticks on there. I wish we'd have had the full cape. This is an old one.

All right. Well, we're like 45 minutes into this. Perfect. And we've got one question done. We've got a lot of questions done. One today? We've done a couple. We've done a couple. We'll go to the next one. I'm not sure how this one. Oh, Dan Ryan asked this one. If you could give one Utah general deer unit a rest from one hunting season year, I'm guessing he means like one year of hunting, and had the ability to get that tag the following year, what unit would it be and what weapon? What weapon is critical?

I'll go last. Wyatt. There's a lot to it, because, I mean, there's a lot of general units out there that if you gave them a break, they have the potential. I mean, they have the buck quality to really blow up and be a great unit. I always thought the Pavant had one year, the genetics on that place, and I'd probably hunt at Archer and Muzzle. But do you think, but I want to add, do you think one year is enough for Pavant? Probably not. Not right now. I don't either. Probably not. Is one year enough for anywhere? But that's a place, I'm telling you, like back in the day, that place was awesome. And even. But you think about Pine Valley. Even a rumor buck or two now, like, you know, if they slip through, the genetics are showing themselves a little bit. Yeah, they're a big deer. What were you going to say? I was just going to say, you know, same thing with Pine Valley.

When it was a limited entry unit, it was producing great deer. So, we're going to have the bumblebee. The browse. Yeah, the browse and bumblebee units. But that side was lower densities, just lower densities. But you're right. I think Pine Valley has the most incredible genetics and potential. We've seen a ton of great bucks that have come off there even after it's been hunted hard. You know, over the course of time, I wouldn't say it's in a great spot at the moment. But, man, it's got, I mean, I would rather see Book Cliffs be general and Pine Valley be limited entry, except for then we can't hunt Pine Valley that often. And so, that's the downside to it. But it'd be kind of fun to see what the potential is. You know what I mean? Yeah, I would agree with that. I think it'd rival the ponds. Yeah, easily. But then Zion, Devin, and you and. I wouldn't do that.

That's probably the worst unit. That's what I was going to say. I don't think it's applicable. Well. Because I was penguins. I wouldn't even think about that place either. Yeah. Or Dutton. Dutton would be terrible. Balder. Balder. Here's the thing. The Zion has so much private, it essentially already has that. Yeah. And those. And so you're seeing it, Max. And it's a gauntlet, and most of them don't make it. Yeah. That's just a fact. And so, I don't think that it would benefit. Yeah. Okay. Well, it would help. It would definitely help. One year. Taking one year off helps everything. For sure. Right. But that's not the unit you would choose. I don't think so. Yeah. Okay. So what unit would you choose? I already said my answer. What did you say? I forgot. Pavant. Oh, Pavant. Yeah, you did. No, but then we had to go back to it needed a couple of years. I think it's Cash's turn.

He's been quiet. I'll go with the Cash unit.

Up north, no. I think, like you guys said, probably, like, Pine Valley would be, a year's going to help anywhere, and Pine Valley has the best genetics, I think, out of the stuff we hunt. Okay. Okay. So, Panguitch, what do you think the one year off would do for Panguitch, if anything? It would help those two-year-olds be three-year-olds, so that would be cool. That's the way I feel about it. That's true. I really feel that way about all these generals right now. That's what I mean. Like, right now, one year is probably not enough if we had three or four years in a row. But in two or three years, and if they, which, again, they're trying to do everything they can to moderate quality and provide tags for everyone, and the tags for everyone is legitimate, and I wish that could happen. It just doesn't feel like it's in the cards. Maintain proper management.

But anyway, with that said, I think everything has a lot of young bucks right now. Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't it feel that way? Oh, yeah. And like Devin said, if you just, more bucks to make it through that gauntlet. Yeah, that's what I wasn't thinking about. If no deer died on those rifle hunts, it would help a ton. It would help a ton. It would help a ton. Everybody would shoot twice as better deer as they would have the next year. And the only thing that's really helping, per se, would be just bucks getting one more year of age on it. One more year, yeah. It would make a big difference. So even on the boulder, which has the best statistics on paper of any of the generals. Yeah, we haven't even talked about that. We should probably talk about that. Go ahead. Dive in. No. Just how it's the best. And I would probably hunt there over anywhere. So that's all being facetious. Not true. Right?

But the biologist does have it on paper. And so, anyway. Even some of these units in Colorado, I feel like. It's the same. It'd give them a year and it would help immensely. You know, what if we did something like that and just did that? Rotated the year off. Would that be kind of fun? That'd be kind of cool. And then anybody that got dedicated would just be extended a year? Yeah. Yep. And then just do it. Just do it. And cash would take their turn. Whatever. Plont would take their turn. Like a rotation. Yeah. Just like rotate it. Even if you did it like by region too. You split it into three regions and then you do. But then you know what Game and Fish would take into account that that many bucks lived and put it back into the formula and issue that many more tags. Lots of death. A lot. So, that's not going to work. All right. Oh, wait. We didn't talk about the season.

What season? Archery. Would you choose? Archery or my older or later seasons. Okay.

Sure.

I like it. Okay. Sounds good. We're good? Yeah. Oh, let's move right the heck along. Okay. Dill underscore Stein says, it's kind of going along with that, do you see bigger deer in dry years or wet years? And some studies show deer get bigger in dry years.

Well, okay. So, that would be, that's a pretty general statement. Are we talking like Colorado high country, Wyoming high country, or are we talking about these desert units that are obviously sensitive to dry years? And we've seen a huge decrease in quality on dry years in many areas near us, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, things like that. Yeah. Yeah. I would tend to say, you know, elk are doing better on drier years. Yeah. And deer, better on wetter years. Yeah. For sure. I would say overall, you've got to have moisture for deer. Because we've seen it. When you went, just think about 2017, 2018, 2019 in Utah for deer, especially like on a unit like the Poncegon. It was, 2017 was one of the best years that it ever had. 2018 was about the worst. And then 2019 was about, was better than 17. And it was only one year apart and it was strictly, but there were a similar effect to

like what we were talking about. There were bucks that got passed in 2018 because they weren't as big. There were bucks that went from. Now they're a year older. From 190s to 170s. And then now they're 210s, you know, and there's more of them. So. Almost not recognizable. Yes. When you have that decrease, unless you're on it and you're watching the specific buck and has a nick in the ear or whatever, or you just know what you're looking at. Yeah. Because you love him and you're following him. And then you realize, you know, what he decreased to and then what he gained to. But we remember when we overlaid those maps and we had the drought monitor type maps and we went year to year, we went the moisture content received from like January 1 to April 1 or whatever. And then we overlaid that with our perception of what the years, good years and the bad years were.

And it was like a direct correlation, wet years produced the biggest bucks. No question about it. I mean, year after year. 2011 was amazing in Nevada. And we went back like 15 or 20 years and just remembered the good years in our minds. 2005 was really good in Nevada. 2002 was a terrible drought. 96 was a terrible drought. Like there's things that stick out in your mind and it was like a perfect correlation for for mule deer. But like Wyatt's saying, better years for the very top end bulls. Now you can have great bulls on wet years. Like you'll still have great bulls on wet years. But like Utah and Nevada especially, it seems like those drier years. And I don't know. When is too dry? Yeah, I think there could be a limit on that. There could be a limit on... I think it's more as the tail end of the winter. If the winter really drags out, then bulls, they start behind. Suffer. Yeah.

If it's kind of a quick, mild winter and right into spring kind of deal, they do a lot better. I always thought too about the pound, like the minerals per pound of feed. If you're eating waterlogged grass compared to like... And that's what they thought about mule deer too, is per bitter brush leaf, what was the content? You know, but if you have no new growth, you have no new growth. And that's what happens on drought years, you know? So I think it's more works on elk than deer. I agree. But then the Arizona guys right now are just laughing, saying, are you guys stupid wet years produce big bulls? Because when you get down in that real desert, New Mexico guys, they're saying the same thing. It's almost the opposite, because I'd say here in Utah, most of our bulls or most of our units have like a mountain component to them to where even on a dry year, there's green grass.

And enough green grass that probably some of those mineral contents and some of that stuff... Comes into play. ...it's higher, because maybe their grass isn't two feet tall, but it's still green grass, and it's still good in their form. They can get it on it sooner, because they're growing earlier. And there's... Because there was snow there. So there's still moisture in the ground to make that grass, that kind of thing. Whereas in Arizona, if there's no snow there, there's no moisture at all. If there's no rain or things like that, you have poor quality. And so Arizona's different. Like, it needs water. New Mexico needs water. And then we're getting to right here close to home. That's where we're seeing a little bit of a difference. Yep. Wouldn't you guys say? Yeah. Yep. I'd say the only thing with deer, there could be some places where there's desert deer that

are just desert deer, and they... I don't know how, but sometimes they're just big. They're just big no matter the year. They just learned to survive. I killed Chief. Chief was killed on a really dry year. Yeah. And... But... So in that particular location, there's not a lot of bitter brush, and they eat totally different feed. Yeah. It's just different. Yep. And when you're in sand, sand, sand, it's just totally different. So there are some exceptions. You know, even one of the heritage tags in Nevada killed an absolute giant not very long ago, a few years ago, on kind of a drier year. And so, you know, there's... Depending on the location, whether they're generally summering, and a riparian area, or whatever, it could be an adjustment. But... There's exceptions for one draw has everything it needs, even under dry year. Well, and we're even...

Like, in a dry year, there's certain units in Nevada that get those rainstorms. When there is a rainstorm, 231 kind of gets it. Whereas 24 could totally... Totally miss 24 for months on end. You know what I mean? And I think we see that here in Utah, too. There's some places that are going to get... If there is rain that happens, it does happen in these locations, on average. Yep. More so than others. It would be interesting to see specifically which studies he's talking about. I've never seen one that says that, you know, drier years produce bigger animals, but... Yeah, I haven't heard of that one either, but there's obviously no other study that's out there, so... Yeah. And you can overlay some Ben and Crockett records and a few things like that, but then there's always just variables about people, who enters them and all of these things, but I'm sure

there's some correlations that can be drawn on.

Okay. All right. So, with that, Travis Cash Dean asks, do you think 241 to 245, I'm assuming he's talking about Nevada, will ever have a year like 2019 again? Hmm.

What was 2019 like over there? Oh, I mean, it's exceptional, but it was in not just 24. Yeah. It was in a large part of the state, and it also felt like there was good numbers. Like, it was kind of, it feels, there's a few good bucks this year, but it feels like the populations are just, man, just really low. Not just, and that's got low populations anyway, but statewide, it feels that way, you know? No. But 2019 was my last big deal. We talked about it on the last podcast, and it was down by Vegas, in a unit that's not known to produce, and nor do I even care if everybody goes there. I don't know. It's not that kind of unit. It doesn't produce on a regular basis the quality that 24 does, or 23, or 13, or some of these other areas that have been known over the years. You know what I mean? Yeah. Does that make sense? And so, yeah, I do think there's, I do think 24 is limited in tags.

We should maybe address, you know, when you have a commercialization component, there's a lot of teams and a lot of emphasis put in 24. Do people draw and feel like it's a once-in-a-lifetime tag, especially the non-resident side? Landowner tags, things like that. And then, so they're putting real effort and energy. And, you know, it kind of goes back to the general on why I think sometimes the general can be overlooked because you don't treat it like a once-in-a-lifetime tag because you can get it somewhat regular here in Utah. And so, if you can get it regular, do you treat it like a once-in-a-lifetime? Would you go and hire outfitters and really put time and energy and money behind that tag? Like, but in Nevada, on those tags, yeah, you're going to put real energy and time and money behind a special tag like that.

And so, then they, these guys are good and they find the best each and every year. You know, whereas 20 years ago, there was a lot of escapement, you know, with the lack of trail cams and things like that. There was just a lot of escapement. Do you guys want to address that a little bit on what your thoughts are? I think you nailed it. It's a big factor. You even see that rotate through some units, like in Utah, limited entry deer. The place will be really hot and it kind of fizzles out. People go other places. This gets forgotten. And it. Then it gets re, re, re, what do you call it? Re, I don't know. A new excitement behind it. It's a factor. And then people go in, clean them out again. Now we've got another four-year building process. Right? Maybe. Wyatt, what do you think? I would agree. You follow deer as much as anybody I know. No, I think you're on the right track.

I mean, we're also dealing with the lowest deer numbers we've ever dealt with, too. So the crop of mature and that age class of bucks that are big are limited right now. Very limited. He's asking about 24 specifically. You realize 24 has a lot of country that just doesn't get hunted and pressured, too? It's interesting. It's an interesting unit. There's a lot that's accessible. That's where a lot of the big deer have been killed in some of the easiest areas. But there's wilderness and aggressive, really aggressive country in there. Miles of it. Like tens, twenties, thirties, miles of it. In several of the units, subunits within 24. And so even 24, you could argue, you know, there's deer dying of old age that aren't getting trail cammed, that aren't getting commercially hunted. And so I always like those kind of units that you feel like something dying of old age and

not everybody knows about this buck. But there's a lot of blank space on that unit, too. Yeah. Where you're not going to find a life. Okay.

So dive into that a little bit. I'm just saying, there's a lot of empty holes out there, too. So you might go through a lot of country, a lot of desert country before you do turn up, you know, a canyon or a draw or something that is holding mule deer. And how much time and energy do you have? Yeah, exactly. Wyatt Bowles. Draws area 24 in Nevada.

You're going to have to put lots of days into it. You're going to buy an extra pair of boots or two? Yeah. You're going to phone a friend? Lots of bottles of water.

So when we say that there's, you know, anyway, when we talk about a lot of blank space, I think that goes hand in hand with there's a lot of people that have the feeling of, if I go deeper and farther, it's going to get better and better. And that may be the case. But in large part, a lot of times, the best bucks are found right next to a road or a new burn or whatever, right? You find that a lot. A lot of times they like to be where life is easy, too. They've got their feed. They've got their water. Don't have to venture too far to do either. All right. Josh, not just reading the questions, chime in on this subject a little bit. What's your thoughts? Oh, I think it would be possible. I feel like it could have that year again. Four or five wet years in a row. Yeah, it's going to take some time, though. It's going to take.

But you get some wet years in a row, all of a sudden it's a new game. We need to have, yeah, four or five years of fawns hitting the ground so that more bucks are making it to a more mature age. And that can happen in Nevada, especially over there and in that country, like why it's talking like you're saying. I mean, there's just stuff. I remember when I went to Nevada with Devin a couple years ago, we were driving. And it was just, I don't know, that state in general, you're like, my gosh. You know, the amount of country that a lot of it's just, I know, we just know guys aren't hitting that hard because it's just so big. Whereas in Utah, if there's a buck or there's a bull, people know. But there's not much getting by, you know. There's something that will get killed in Nevada and guys will spend days trying to figure out what and where, how, why, when, all that stuff.

In Utah, everybody already knew the name of that thing, you know. Yeah. They got their own name and they named it first. Yeah. Yeah. So it's just different that way. But it's going to take some time. And with the super low tag numbers over there, that could be one of the places that it does come back quicker than others. So that's what I feel like with Nevada, their management strategy would be in $30 to $35 per hundred does depending on the unit. And that's pretty much a statewide strategy. Kudos to them. Like, they want the quality. Even in their units that are their opportunity units. Yes. They're slashed. Yeah. I mean. Yeah. And even you, Devin, like you've talked, you know a lot about Nevada and spent a lot of time over there over the years. And we've, both of us have been, and all of us here at the table actually, have been like, man, I wish they would cut tags.

Or they're given too many tags. But it's because we're really, we're hypercritical of it because we know what it could be. You know what I mean? Or what it has been. Or what it has been. But generally speaking, their management strategies kill everybody else's. Like, I'm proud of them in large part. They do something. They listen. They do something. Yeah. But the locals are, they're hypersensitive. You're never going to make anyone. No. Right. Everyone happy. It doesn't matter what you're doing. Yeah. But yeah, I think they do a good job. I do think there's a lot of PIW tags for the residents. Okay. So we get three as non-residents. And that allows you to hunt any open season in the state. And when you have a couple of great units that continually produce, that's where people gravitate to.

You get 20-something resident tags on top of X amount of the draw tags on top of the youth, on top of this. How do you think they're going to go? They're going to where it's. Yeah. I mean, they are, right? And so you end up with that much more pressure. And I do think there's, I mean, we get three. So that's awesome. But I just feel like, you know, I feel like that's a lot of resident tags. I just feel like that. I think that's too many. Compared to the late muzzleloader hunts on generals in Utah, though. Yeah. That takes off the bucks that did make it that are mature and big. Yeah. When they initially started that, and Josh, you can talk to this too. And I agree with you, Devin, as well. Like when they initially started it was to just give a real finite few guys a special opportunity. But it's on our general. Then those bucks, they did something to make it, man.

I mean, your heart goes out to them. It's like. Like you beat the masses. How did you make it? You beat 10,000 gomer piles. All of us. And there you are in the rut. And you get smashed with a muzzleloader. Right? And think about the timing of when those hunts came about, too. There was even on general season units. They could handle it. There was a few extra of those kind of bucks to go around. I mean, you would burn your points on them. Yeah. So, yeah. You'd burn your. A lot of people did. They killed giants. Yes. And then times change. Yes. And those tags stay, if not even be jacked. Oh, they're doubled from what they first were. But anyways, yeah, that's the same kind of thing. Like, you kind of. I don't know. It's hard. I know. I mean, you want. It's cool. It's cool. I love the SKUs. We call them SKUs. All the different hunts to apply for. And in Utah, I mean, you got one choice.

And then they go to the next guy. You know, on the limited entries. And so, I like the SKUs because it's spreading us all out a little bit. And one year we're doing one thing. And the next year we're doing something different. But anyway, those extra SKUs on the generals are sensitive, right? Oh, yeah. Especially on tough years. For sure. So, long story short, give us some water. Nevada's going to come back faster than anything else. I like what Wyatt said. With the low tag numbers, you can make a change really fast. Also, there's a lot of inaccessible country, less accessible, whatever, that require more elbow grease. And worn out boots and whatnot to really access it. It kind of gives you a few in the peripheral that don't get seen every day. But it's pretty awesome. You can see bucks grow 40, 50 inches in those kind of units with a little bit of age.

Like we're saying, drought years actually can save bucks because people are passing them up. And all of a sudden, we could go back into all the genetic side of things of seeing these three-point frame bucks actually be absolute giant, maybe even record book type, but typicals on a wet year. Right? And so, the effectiveness of the management hunts could be questioned on that when we have these drought years. Yeah. It's a similar effect as far as that goes on those years. Leftover bucks and getting killed. Okay. I think sometimes, like listening to the conversations we talk about, oh, how difficult it is, how it's down, it used to be better than, like Logan and I were talking. That's why if. About TikTok or what were you guys talking about? No, if you haven't been in the game forever or you're a new hunter. Yeah. Like a minority of people who listen to our podcast are in Utah. Yeah.

And sometimes, you know, if you're from back east or something like that trying to get into it, it's hard because you just hear the negativity. But that's why it's important to apply in multiple states to build your points for it, Chloe. Yeah. To try to draw in as many states as you can and spread that out. You're not going to, you know, draw in Nevada every one year, every three years, maybe every 10, 15, 20 kind of thing. But if you're not playing the game or you don't know, you know, what that game is, that's where we can help you. Well, I think it's. Start to build that portfolio. Oh, yeah. A hundred percent. And so I think we're hypersensitive to some of this stuff a little bit, but we're also playing the devil's advocate. So we'll say one thing and then we counteract our own statements with, yeah, but. And then you add this. And so there's 14 or 15 variables we've just talked about.

And at the end of the day, we're like, yeah, it'll come back. We could have answered it really simply up front. Yeah, it'll come back. But it took me a minute to wrap around my real thoughts about it because then you're adding in all of these unique variables that make a difference on quality. The PIW tags during the drought years, the extra tags on the late muzzles in Utah. And then like Josh had a great point. Those were instigated when we could handle them. Then they never go away. They never get curtailed. You know what I mean? And so anyway. And even though we're talking sometimes doom and gloom, none of us are applying for points only. I'm excited to hunt. We're trying to draw those tags. Wyatt's ecstatic. All the time.

Apply, apply, apply. But I'm excited to hunt. So, yes, I think that's a great point, John. We're hypersensitive. We want to see the biggest stuff ever to roam the face of the earth. And then, you know, you get frustrated. But really, it's just because we care. I'm excited to go. I'm trying to get tags in all the seasons in Colorado for my kids, you know, wife, whatever. Because I want to be in Colorado. But Colorado's never been worse. No. But I can't wait to get there. I want to hunt second, third, fourth. I want one of you guys to get a muzzler tag, not me.

We got Bronson to do it one year. He did well. You guys should follow suit. Maybe do archery. Devin? Not this year. And so, anyway, I think that's a great point. It's a valid point. Like, we're never going to quit applying. We're never going to give up hope. And you do see major fluctuations in quality, even with all the technology, even with all the commercialization and the pressure. And we're part of the commercialization. We're part of that, right? And when it comes back and it's really, really good, nobody's down from the rooftops yelling, 241's legit. No. Everybody's like, no. I mean, you guys don't even know. Like, there's giants everywhere. Nobody says a word. No. What they say is. People should keep that in mind. No. What they say is. Don't say anything. Apply. Apply like you've never applied before. Yeah. And it could be anywhere. Yeah. It's everywhere. Jeez. That's a weird.

I don't know. It's just an alarm saying I need to do something to engage. Take your meds. No. No. I do get wound up. Afternoon pills.

Okay. So, for the record, I don't take meds.

Maybe an aspirin once in a while. Not a tweaker? Not a tweaker. All right. So, yeah. Devin, I think that's a great point. When we're, and we've seen major fluctuations. And all of a sudden, the people that are down in the mouth about it, us and our friends, I won't hear anything from our friends when it's really good. You know? And they would choose some of these generals over, say, a Henry's or whatever on the really good years. Another 2019 or another whatever. Josh is talking about 2017. 2016 in Nevada was off the charts. All right.

Josh, when you're done texting or whatever you're doing there, we'll let you read another question. I'm working, as Logan calls it.

I'm the one that texted him. Exactly.

I was telling him. You guys are doing exactly what Logan's generation does. They text each other at the same table. At the table. That's kind of awkward a little bit. I didn't make your tag about it. I now would like to see your phone. Read it out loud. I didn't want to blow in here and say, hey, only do two more questions, but. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, that's what I say. You guys don't get to choose everything in life. No, I don't know. I told him we're not going over two hours again. Well, we're only at 54 minutes. Last time, we were an hour in before we even read a question. Jana, she got done with it. She's like, really? I don't know that I learned a thing. I'm like, she's knowledgeable. That's just, I was like, Jana, you're knowledgeable. No. I do. My daughter was. She didn't say that, but she does. I think she's, she lives with the banter. Yes. She cares about everything.

She's just like, why are you guys still talking about dryer vents or whatever it is? Why are you the way that you are? I don't know, but you chose it. Yeah, exactly. You chose it out of all the other dudes out there. I saw one on there about trucks. Yeah, there's a couple. Jason, about the last podcast, I do have to say, my daughter was sitting on my couch working and, you know, on her laptop. And she's laughing. And I'm like, what are you laughing at? And she's like, I'm listening to your podcast. What part did she like? Do you remember? There were several parts. We got a lot of comments on Josh's dating rant. Yeah. I got like four DMs on the Epic account for that. Really? All chicks. All of them? Oh, 100%. I'd like to say that four out of four took my side on that. Yeah. And they were all tens. Yeah. Let's talk about dating some more, Josh. Anyway, go ahead.

We're all going glassing together. What about Wyatt? Wyatt had some, he had family reach out to him on the laptop. I saw these questions here about trucks. And I was wondering if Cash would tell us which one would hold up to a cattle guard. Oh. Joint choice of trucks. Hey. I mean. Cash, Cash, you have a vehicle that's running perfectly right now. It runs just fine. And in Mexico, that thing would do another $300,000. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So it held up. It held up great. I didn't, I mean. Were you. I didn't some metal. Now, only do you know how hard you hit. Were you impressed with how it weathered smashing into the side of a cattle guard? I actually am. Give us the story. Oh. Okay. Every embarrassing moment I've ever had has been talked about on the podcast. Every mistake. Every accident. I'd say two or three times. Yeah. So let's hear it. So there I was.

No, I was going out, scouting, and geez, just came over a hill. And on the wrong side of the fence, there was a little black calf standing right in the middle of the road, about 10 yards in front of the cattle guard, and my headlights hit it. And it was either, it was a quick decision. It was either hit the calf, smash him in the grill. I would say run the risk of hitting the calf. Because a lot of times they go straight for the fence. Well, I didn't move. Being the cattleman, you are. What did you decide? Being the cattleman I am, I did not hit the calf. I said that is more valuable than a bumper. Okay. And what about half the truck? Well, it might not have ended up that way. But no, it was either hit the calf or pop a gate open. And I was like, you know what? I've passed this gate a hundred times, and I know it's just tied with twine, so it'll pop open.

And when it did, the post that was holding it up was rotted off at the bottom, so it just let the top of the cattle guard hit the side of my truck and run down the side. So a couple bumps and bruises, and that thing still runs fine. Well, we're talking about an entire half of the truck needs to be replaced. Okay. So the bumper, the hood, the front quarter panel, the door, the rear quarter panel, all, the mirror, and everything. There's not part of the cab right there, too. And when he turns down the road, it looks like he's going left, but he's going to the way. That's the craziest thing ever seen. That resembles a bent frame. I'm just kidding. That is far-fetched. That is far-fetched. And I want to say, before this happened, what was the truck worth? Just give me a rough figure. Truck was probably, I have been offered $27,000 for that truck. Come on. I have. Okay. So that guy was high.

Tell me again. He was high. It's probably legitimately worth $21,000. $20,000. All right. Maybe. And what was the bid to fix it? Oh, I don't know. So when I said half the value of the truck, was I right? You're right in the ballpark. But I will say, on that estimate, it is pretty extensive. Like, there's stuff that's on the opposite side that didn't get touched that they're saying needs to be replaced. I'm like, no, that's not right. No. So I would say. That happened last time. Yeah. I was like, that's the other. No. No. There's, I mean, they quoted two mirrors instead of just one. I love how Wyatt has been silent this whole time. Oh, yeah. He gets the spotlight off him, and then he goes silent. Oh, yeah. I might not tell the story. It really isn't as bad as it sounds, though. Because I went through it yesterday, and like, my hood, I formed a hood back, and you can't even hardly tell.

You throw some paint on it, and it's all good. So really, like, really, though. Sorry, but I have to disagree. Ignore the drywall screws holding the mirror back up. Are they drywall or are they wood screws? Their hood is not okay. You haven't looked at it since I performed it back. I remember today when we walked in from lunch, and I just, I felt bad for you once again. No. I looked at the hood. Yes. That bug guard thing snapped, and there's a big old dent. What about the side door is, like, got a hood scoop on it? It comes out, and it's not fun. When it rains, when he drives through a rainstorm, it's got a hood scoop. It's sticking out the side. It's going to be a problem. It's going to be a problem. Don't worry. It's going to get fixed, and I'm paying my deductible. It's fine. So all in all, do you recommend that as a hunting truck? Oh, yeah. What is it? Tell everyone what it is.

It's a Chevy Colorado 2017 diesel. Yeah, great fuel mileage. It costs me way less than I had a truck would. Me too. So it's great. I love that little truck, though. It's a CR2 Chevy Colorado. I'm a fan. Wyatt, while we're talking about trucks, what are you a fan of? What's the best truck you've owned or want to buy for scouting slash hunting? This is the best truck I've owned, the one I'm driving. As I say, that's every other truck for you. I have a lot of good ones. That was the best rifle I had. The one I sold John? Okay, this latest one that I sold John, because I've sold him a lot of them. John, I've never steered you wrong. No, no. It's been awesome. But the latest truck? 10 miles a gallon is not as good as cash is getting, but. Well, you put on bigger tires, dude. You're like 35s on a gasser. It didn't change it much. Come on. Yeah. John.

So it's the Dodge Power Wagon, and that's the one truck I regret selling. I've got about 10 miles a gallon, no matter what. That's what it is. Huh. I was getting 13. I don't know the problem. You gained a tire size. How about you had to stop and fill up in Beaver pulling that trailer to the Expo? Yeah. Okay, that wasn't 10 miles a gallon. I was down at like six. I remember I called it my three or four times. I was like, where you at, John? Just getting gas. You just got gas. It's been an hour. You're driving a full-size diesel, and they are no joke. They're getting 11 to 12 miles a gallon with a trailer. Yeah. Right? Is that what you roughly get? Yeah. 11 to 13 when we're pulling a trailer. Yeah. And it's a no joke difference between that and six. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, scouting-wise, that's great. My Chevy Colorado ZR2 diesel, I mean, I've got a ton of miles.

90,000 hard ones, and it's, man, I love it. Devin? We've talked about this before. You're over it? No, the truck? Yes. My favorite one? Yes. It was my old O2. Oh, yeah. The Tundra. The T100 was legit. I love that truck, but the O2 I had for so long. And now you're- He's back. Yeah. I want to say, what does he call it? Bonding. He's bonding with the new- It takes time. The O6. Is it an O6? O5. O5. Have you bonded? It's blue. Yeah. As you say, bright red. It's that bright red Tundra. Blue and red. Yes. Yeah. It's pretty unique. You can identify it. Okay, hold on. It's got a big shell on it. What happened with- Okay. It doesn't match, unfortunately. Yeah. It's a good truck. I haven't really- Tested it out. I've tested it, but I don't know. It just takes time. Yeah.

Wyatt can't get rid of the same kind of thing. He's got the old Tundra and the new Tundra, and he just likes the Tundra. Yeah. They've been good. But he loves Alaska, so it matches. What?

Can't get him out of them. Not that Tundra. They don't necessarily love that Tundra. You don't? The Alaska Tundra? It's the one place you want to go back, and the whole place is full of Tundra. Yeah, I know, but I don't like walking on that Tundra. Yeah. And that's miserable. It is miserable. So what's your favorite tactic of hunting? Sitting in a river bottom and waiting for a moose to walk by. And Devin, how did you feel after the second, third, fourth day? Let's not go here. I know what you're getting at. We went over this at lunch. I was mentally unstable. Yes. I am not in denial. I lost. Josh is about to learn. So Wyatt kills a bull, and then so Wyatt, he could care less. Wyatt's just eating granola. Devin. Making fun of me the whole time. Better put your boots on. Are you going to get serious? All the while, they're watching for a bull to come by, and then after what, five, six,

eight hours, ten hours, two days, three days, you're finally just saying. Wyatt diagnosed me with time blindness, so I couldn't tell you.

It was seven days.

And then finally, you're just like, I am getting out of here. We are doing something different. Find yourself two miles down the river looking at the same type of country you just left. Yeah, it's all the same. Just a little less scent, maybe. But then we kill the moose right from camp. Where all the scent was. Yeah, you're just knowing what I know now. I'm just going to sit back and enjoy myself. Okay, it's on the podcast, and it's in writing. Yeah. He is not moving, Josh. I'm going to sit back. Oh, I'm going to move around. I guarantee. I'm going to sit at camp with my boots on lace because it worked before. I will walk around. Did you kill your moose, both moose, in crocs or boots unlaced? They were laced up. What? The wolf was half laced. I had my crocs on, but then I put my boots on. He put his boots on pretty fast. Oh, it was. No joke. It was one of the coolest things I ever did.

Do you think they were laced when he killed his bull moose? Halfway, maybe. They were probably laced, but the first moose that came out that day that he passed, they were not laced. We weren't serious. They might not even have been on. It had only been a week, or it had been a week and you were giving up. We hadn't seen a living creature. Besides each other. There was that one porcupine. Oh, yeah. I filmed for 18 minutes. Strolled by. As he straddled the bushes by our tent. He was a cool little guy. It was the most exciting thing to happen.

Any normal person would have had mental issues, I think. And you can't wait to go back. I can't wait. I love it. Moving on. Pretty exciting. Wyatt, are you going to take a pistol? Are we decided? I'm excited. Maybe go with a vote, because they kind of want you to take one. If they saw me shoot one, they wouldn't want me to take one. Josh, take a belt that you can use as a tourniquet. Actually. Did you think about that? I discussed that with Haley. Did you? Yes. That very thing. When to tourniquet and when not. Because if you do a proper tourniquet, you're losing that limb. Yeah. So when do you tourniquet? We're probably up there, for sure. When do you tourniquet and when don't you? What are you guys talking about? Getting shot? Or like cutting ourselves? Both. Okay. Okay. Anything bad that happens. Dangerous place.

Dangerous people. Mentally unstable people with guns and firearms. Devin's going to cut his hand and Josh is just going to pull a tourniquet out. Sorry, you're losing the hand, buddy. I mean. Say thanks. I just act like I got mental problems. I challenge anyone to sit in a chair and stare at a wall of pine trees for a large amount of time. Nobody's talked about Wyatt having these issues. He was fine. That's my point. You were not. He's mentally strong. But he had also killed. Yeah. That helps a guy. There was no stress. Because his point was. Not just killed, but killed a freaking giant. And so then his point is, I'll go where you want me to go, Devin. Where do you want me to go? Tell me what to do. I said, we'll sit here. Two hours later, we're walking four miles that way. Why? Because Devin's so sick of it. We have been over this. He was very patient.

There's not many people that could have done that.

The one thing about Wyatt is he's not going to chime in either. He'll let you develop your own plan and ruin yourself. He's blown the wrong way. No, he's thinking that. He's like, you're a fool, but whatever. I'm good with it. Yes, Devin, I would like to walk down the street. I'm not going to tell him, no, you have a stupid idea on your own hunt. I want you to. You should. Real friends want people to chime in and help with this plan. Like, dude, stop chasing the grouse. Just sit here, Devin. Just quit moving. I told him. I said, we go up the river, we go down the river, we can sit here. Look, you choose, Devin. Every day. It's all the exact same. I had to choose every time. It obviously was hard on me. But it's really nice when you have true friends that help you come up with that decision, but he never wants to be blamed that you made the bad decision.

Have you been around him after seven?

Seven? Seven. I thought we were like 14. By the time we killed. Oh, geez. That's no joke. That is no joke. No, it wasn't too bad. We made a lot of decisions together. Did you? I thought we did great. Then we get back and I'm mentally unstable. Somebody ate the Oreos or whatever. One Oreo. I had one Oreo. That we weren't supposed to have. Yes, I admitted that. Let's get back to the question. Org, this moves on over for too long. All right. How many more? Oh, one. I don't know. Unless there's a couple of good ones that we can get over with quick. Let's give the people what they want. Throw a couple quick ones out.

Favorite caliber for both elk and deer. Perfect. Paul Costa, 33. Devin, let's just start off. Favorite caliber, elk and deer. Can't kill them too dead. Probably a 300 rub. Okay. No kidding. You don't use a 300 rub. You don't even own a 300 rub. I just wanted to get a reaction. I'm like, wow, you're speaking my love language. I felt something. Your face. You look like you wanted to hug me. I love the rub. I love the rub. I've killed so much, so many animals. When they hit things, they die. Oh, they die. So there you go. And it's like a shock and awe, right? Oh, yes. I would agree. So I love that. But okay, now tell us the truth. I shoot a 7 mag. I'd kill a lot of stuff with it. Yeah. It works. It does. It does. John? Yeah, elk have been 300. Wind mag and then deer. A wind mag? Yeah, and then deer have been, you know. Anything you got? I've got a 6.5 PRC or 7mm PRC. All right.

I used to shoot that 300 at everything, and then I shot somebody else. 300 to win or rub? The wind. And then I was like, I didn't know it was an option to not get knocked on the ground every shot. You know? Jeez, you guys man up a little. I mean, I have no problems with that thing. Josh, you have no problems. You and I are a little bit beefier than these guys. I was going to say, today I'm allowed 60 pounds to go to Alaska. Guess who told him this? Wyatt. What's he doing? Wyatt pulls out and says, oh, and by the way, our limit's 300 pounds. I'm like, you realize. No, I said a lot of guys do say your limit is 300 pounds for a guy in gear. Just so you know. And then he shut his window and like, good luck with that.

I'm like, what? I now have to only take Crocs. Tondon. After Josh's food and rifle, he has 40 pounds to work with. Which is about right. What are your favorite pieces of gear? 40 pound gear. You'll be fine. Some Merino Speedo.

Wow. A Merino Speedo and Crocs. Lots of bug spray. You might want to shave. That'd give you a sock.

Jeez. I have to cut my eyebrows off and everything. I'm going to come and choke the airport. Ball. Everything. I'm ready. I need a little extra. Nose hairs. One gallon of less fuel in the airplane and you'd be able to take a little bit more. Yeah. I don't know. Six pounds per gallon of Avgas. All right, John. What else you got? All right. Cash? No. Favorite caliber. If I had to choose one to use for both, I'd probably choose 7PRC. If I could have the option, I'd have a 7PRC and a 300PRC. Myself. Jeez. All right. Josh? I would say probably some form of a 7 mag. You know, short mag. I always loved my 7mm short mag. You said elk and deer. What about that 300 realm? Well, I said I would have chose up until the last couple of years. But I really do like that 300 realm. Oh. Oh, yeah. So most people are in the 7PRC realm right now. You were in the 7 realm back then of some sort.

I would say for somebody who's like with worrying about recoil, deer and elk, both something that's big enough to kill bull. Small framed fellers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Guys that can take an extra 150 pounds of gear to Alaska. Right. Devin. Devin. Yeah. That's the reason I don't shoot a 300 realm. I've shot him a lot. Devin's in a 243 and up somewhere in there. Yes. But for both deer and elk, yeah, a 7 would be good. But 300's better. I've enjoyed that realm. No joke. When you shoot something and see you throw it up the hill, it's pretty awesome. Hey.

I've been known to let a kid use a 338 realm on an antelope. And a chest is a chest. It was all usable meat. There was no problems. Didn't even have to grind it. It was no joke. Jeez. I love that 338 realm.

Borden said this will be your best long range gun. Anyway, at the time, no joke, it was my best. It was unbelievable accurate. And everything that it touched died. All right, Wyatt, what do you got? I just shoot a 7 Remington mag. Even at brown bears and grizzlies and stuff. I've never shot at one of those. No, but that's what you take to protect your soul. Yeah. But if you're the marksman, half the marksman that Wyatt is, he doesn't. Like, you know, you just pick your spot and that's where it goes and it dies. So we should go down these roads. And Wyatt's always deflecting. One of these days, we're going to go down the marksman's roads. Have a few stories. Hey, we can all count up misses. I'll count up misses with everybody. There is a kind of, yes. You could do that. I like the 300 Rem a lot. I've worn them out at times. But anyway, but the 7 PRC, I like it.

I've got a couple of rifles, Red Rock and Fierce. And they are no joke and I'm so impressed. Anyway, elk, deer, very impressive. Maybe on paper, like, yeah, there's less energy, you know, than, say, a ROM up shorter distances, 500 and under or even 800 and under or 1,000 and under. But, you know, they do carry and ballistic coefficients and what or such. They maintain the energy they had better than many calibers. And so anyway, I've been impressed. I'm not going to lie. Devin, did I misspeak on anything? No, I just loved the look on your face when I said 300 Realm. And I would add. You were speaking to me. I know. We could go back to these love languages that Wyatt loves. That was the love language. That was verbal. I thought you were going to hug me. I would add this, like, working at a place like that and being around it a lot, service calls, you could say. Yeah. Do you know how many?

I would say 80-plus percent was 300 Realm, 338 Lapua's, the big calibers every single time. But also, I want to. You've never had people with accuracy issues with 6.5 Creedmoors, PRCs. But the devil's advocate, I want to say, you were in that industry a while ago. And I would say rums, the .30 Cals were the most popular back then. Oh, yeah. So you were dealing with more questions because they were more popular. Now the 7 PRC is, like, the most popular. That's true. 6.5 PRC, the most popular. Those two are the most popular calibers. And they're smaller than that. So I think people just. What were the issues on them, Devin? Like, when you say that. Just. Yeah. Most of the time ringing bases if it really was a problem. But sometimes you get a rifle back. Because people just didn't know what they were doing. Yeah. And, I mean, you know, on paper you're looking at a .338 Lapua.

Like, who's even asked about a .338 Lapua? Nobody. How long has it been? But there for a while that was what people wanted. And they'd come back and, like, these gunsmiths, they shoot a lot. Like, they'd shoot a half-inch or less group. Bang, bang, bang. With what? Or, like, just the same ammunition. Like, I don't know what to say. You're the problem. The client was the problem. You're scared to shoot it. Yeah. You're scared to shoot it. And some people would admit that and sell it or whatever. But, yeah, it happens is what I'm saying. So my point would be shoot something you're comfortable shooting. But I think also since you've been in the industry, you were really focused. You were guns. You made your living on guns and dealing with custom rifles, right? You could say.

But I think since then, people have gotten better at knowing how to mount a scope, a rifle, better at reloading, better at understanding long range and long distance. Like, we've watched the industry grow with the time you've been in the industry. You've watched the knowledge base of even the average hunter seems to be better than it used to be. What do you think? No, I agree. What do you think about that? I agree. But I still think people are buying smaller calibers than they were back then. Yeah. Yeah. They are. They are. Much more enjoyable. I agree 100%. 6'5 and 7's, no joke. You couldn't. The 300 rum, it's like the Lapua. It's not that bad yet, but people are totally gravitating away from it. But I love it. But they are. Yeah. Am I right? No, it's. Josh? Mm-hmm. You feel the same? Yeah. Like I said, you're never changing. You're too dead.

No, but there's something about when I shoot you, you lay right there. That's what I'm saying. Same spot. And that's 300 rum country. You know what I mean? It's 100% true. I've been watching a lot of YouTube just hunts and stuff. During the sun, some hunts and things like that. When you're clocked in, right? What Josh calls it working. I love it. I got to help you come up with these things. I appreciate it. Listen, we can't miss an opportunity. That's generally why I'm driving.

But it's funny when you'll see guys shoot and everything, and all of a sudden I'll be here like this. Wah! Oh, that was a rum. So, just, yeah, it'll make your heart feel good. Yeah, it does. This is my first year hunting with a different caliber. I grew up hunting my whole life with a .308. Really? No. That's exactly what I wanted to hear. My first year was with a .308, but it was my mom's sawed-off .308, and it was like this long. Oh, no. I feel like it could have had a pistol grip on it. I love that thing. That was my favorite gun. Okay. No. You're not one of them. We're not the same. I knew I'd get flack for it, and I wanted to hear about it. What do you shoot now? Now I shoot a .7 Rome. A .7 PRC. No. Or .7 Remington Mag. Yeah. Remington Mag.

Well, when you're young, you have one rifle. I had a .300 Ultra Mag. That's the only thing I had. I shot an antelope with a softball-sized hole through it, and I was like, okay, that's what I needed. But you don't even remember what ammo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. You know. But you don't remember if it was. It could have been a swift A-frame. It could have been. Yeah, I don't know. You wouldn't even know. Like, now we know. We're discriminating as hunters. Yeah. Now we know what bullets hold together. What the reputations are of the bullets. Back then, I mean, do you remember? We'd go into Ron's and just grab whatever's on the shelf the day before the hunt started. Go hit a paper plate? Literally. It could have been whatever. Oh, this is all that's left? I'll kill them. I mean, look at that cartridge. That cartouche. It's big.

Are we done? All I can say is just find something. At some point, everybody has a threshold where there's anxiety with pulling a trigger. Figure out where that threshold is and stay with that. Because even just this last weekend, I was shooting muzzleloaders. And after sighting in three of them and shooting them, I was like, oh, here we go. Even with your massive frame. And you're just, yeah, like you. Even with your massive frame. Oh, yeah, so good.

But, like, there's a threshold. And I can say smaller caliber rifles, they're so much more enjoyable to shoot. And I'm much more accurate with them in most cases just because they are more enjoyable to shoot. You're not as afraid of them. So find one that's, I would say, the biggest caliber that you're not afraid of and go with that. Because you want some wiggle room there if, you know, the shot's not the best shot you've ever made, things like that. But don't take a BB gun, you know. No, no. That's why I said the biggest you can handle. The biggest you can handle. Yes. You need to be shooting something that's big enough that's going to kill stuff. And I don't know if being afraid of it is the right word necessarily. Only my bucket is. You think so? I mean, it's a fear. Is it going to get scoped? Is it going to hurt my shoulder? You're talking about those muzzle loaders.

I shot one the other day that has a high comb. You can't adjust it. And it rocked me. And every time you're about to pull that trigger, it's a different feeling than the other guns you've seen. A flinch. Maybe not a flinch, but you know it's coming. You're about to get punched in the face. Ashley. I mean, I got Ashley, Kate. So she's whatever. Let's call it 13, 14, 15, 16 years old. She shoots on a consistent basis. My .30 nozzler. I've tamed it down. It's 3,100 feet a second. A .180 acubon. It doesn't kick at all hardly. She's never scared of it. Loves the gun. Killed tons of stuff with it. Sometimes I think it's a perception thing and then people are nervous about it. But you can also tame stuff down with your reloading. And I just tamed it down. I don't put a hot load through it. You know what I mean? 30 nozzler isn't known to be hot anyway. But anyway.

Yeah, I just know when I was 14, my first rifle, I still have it, was like a Savage .30-06. You know? And I, it rocked you. You know, it wasn't my most favorite gun to shoot. That's back when we magna ported things. You remember cutting the holes in the barrel versus an actual break. Like, and I had a, a couple years later, like when I was 16, I had gotten like a .223 bolt action, .223 just for coyotes and whatever, just to have a gun in the truck. And that's like the most accurate gun I ever shoveled because I wasn't, I wasn't afraid of it. It was, there was no recoil. Like I would hold it dead set. I wasn't, I'd pull the trigger. Like it would, it would shoot. It would kill. It was awesome. And then, so there's a lot to that. Well, we got to talk about that so we could go into the Beaver County, which I know Josh, you love. And Logan, you're from there. Great place.

And maybe some of my stocks from there. But they love the .22250. Oh, that gun never leaves my truck. Okay. And, and, and I've got one and I'll never, never go without one in my life. But there's been, how many, how many deer, Logan, have been killed with the .22250 in Beaver County? I wouldn't kill a deer with a .22250, but people use them.

Friends and family. At night, in January. Yeah. Okay, Josh, Josh. Okay. Like, yeah. You think penguished people are different? Yeah. I think they are different. Wyatt, you've been kind of quiet. Do you want to add anything? No, no, I answered them. Any personal questions we should go over? No, I think we're good. We're good there. All right. There is one question on there, though. That's kind of a prediction for this upcoming season. Oh, yeah. We could do that real quick. Go ahead. How did you know these? How did you know these? Did you come in early and read all these? That's why he requested to sit there. That's why he requested a black curtain. I wanted to sit behind the curtain. Devin, where were you at 629 this morning? Not here. Okay, where do you think Wyatt was? In here reading these questions. A hundred percent. And he had already ate an egg. No, he was doing something.

He had already ate an egg with a whole wheat bagel. A half of a whole wheat bagel dry. Not true. I just glanced over and saw that question. We were sitting here talking about the rifle question. All right, go ahead. You better read it then, Wyatt. Read it out. Wyatt, let's see if you could substitute for the question reader guy. And I've answered plenty. I want somebody else. I want Josh to answer it because he is not the question reader guy right now. Okay, Josh. We're going to go from Troy Watkins, 24. You're doing good. What was that? You're doing good. Oh, wow. Thank you. I appreciate it. You're almost rocking him to sleep with that tone of yours. I don't get a lot of compliments. I appreciate it. Okay, so did you know that Josh is verbal affirmation? That's his love language. Anything verbal, he's starting to soften. Just don't touch him.

The first question is, Henry's versus Ponsagant versus, I guess we could do Henry's versus Ponsagant for Utah units, strip versus Kayabab. This year, any season, any weapon?

Oh, I don't, I have not stepped any foot on any three of the four of those. But just hearing things from it, I don't know, goes back to when we were talking about maybe units forgotten about, the other units that are popular, that kind of thing. I think on just a general basis every year for Arizona, if you told me I had to take one or the other, I would probably take a Kayabab tag. Whoa. Every year. Whoa? Over the strip. Every time, if you ask me. Because that way, it goes back to the similar effect I feel like with elk. Even on tough years, the Kayabab still kills some big deer because there is moisture and snow and growth. So, overall, I'd take a Kayabab tag every year. And it's a hunter-friendly unit. Like, you're going to see deer. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You're going to see deer. It's going to be a more enjoyable hunt, per se. 100% more enjoyable.

And I don't know, as far as Pons and Henry's, there's some good deer on the Pons this year. But I've heard there might be some good deer on the Henry's, too. And the Henry's is kind of one that was forgotten about until last year. Some guys killed some big deer. Some freaking Denny's. And now it's been talked about. So, are you a rifle? What weapon are you going on? No. No, no, no.

Probably archery or muzzleloader. Late rifle on the Kayabab. Yes. Yes, for sure. Late on the Kayabab. And then archery or muzzle on the Utah Pons or Henry's. It's good to go first in Utah. Choose one. Pons or Henry's? I'd have to say Pons just because I know it better. I know it more. And there's more of those big deer. But the very top end could come off the Henry's. Yeah. Right? Why? Do you want to answer that? I'd go with the Henry's archery tag again. Okay. I'd really like to do that one again. Strip burst Kayabab gets a little bit tougher. That late Kayabab is very appealing with the reputation of, say, like. Straight up going to the strip. 13V. I think I'm going to the strip. I'm going to the strip. Strip. I'm going to the strip, but I'm like, Josh, you're going to see more deer. Rutting deer. It's frolicking, fun. Trucks everywhere. But there's deer for everybody.

So it's not as stressful. I feel like the strip, it's competitive. Guys, there's guys that know it intimately. They work it. And you're going to have a little competition out there. But at the same time, the chance of an absolute giant. You know what I mean? In the back of my mind, it's going to be on the strip. So you went strip and Ponce Gunner Henry's. Strip. Maybe you strip archery. Okay. And, I don't know, your stories on the Ponce have me bothered. So, probably the archery Henry's.

Archibald? I'm with you. What does that mean? Archery Henry's.

Strip. Strip. It'd have to be the strip. Rifle. Yeah, like it. In November, just hoping to roll around. The one thing is you can roll around and you should be driving all day, every day. Middle of the day. Because they're rutting, right? They just show up. My dad shoots one at 11 a.m. One they didn't know about. This is like Lamborghini or Ferrari. Yes, please. Any of those. Any of the above? Any. Yes. Okay. Let's end this thing. Okay. Are we good? This weekend, it's happening here in Utah. Stuff's going to die. It's going to be exciting. We're going to talk to you next week. Hopefully, we've got something fun to talk about. All right. Good luck, everybody.

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go online to stjamesportingproperties.com or give them a call at 855-711-7577 to learn more. Red Rock Precision Rifles are at the pinnacle of custom rifles. They make no compromises in terms of quality, accuracy, and reliability. They will build the perfect rifle for you in both feel and performance. Epic Outdoors is an official Red Rock dealer. Call us to talk over your options for your next Red Rock rifle or go to redrockprecision.com to learn more. Vortex makes optics for every occasion. Whether you're a long-range shooter dialing in that perfect shot or an archery hunter in need of an easy-to-carry optic without sacrificing quality, Vortex has you covered. Head over to epicoptics.com or call us to learn more about your Vortex options today at 435-263-0777. From top-of-the-line hunting blinds to game calls that can't be beat,

GSM Outdoors has you covered for whatever outdoor equipment you need. For all of their products, head over to gsmoutdoors.com to learn more. Thompson Long Range has perfected the art of simple, affordable long-range shooting. If you don't want to calculate ballistics or adjust your turrets before making a shot, a Thompson Long Range system is for you. Simply range, place the hash mark for that distance on the animal, and pull the trigger. They make top-quality rifles and host a shooting school that will leave you confident in making shots out to 1,000 yards. Visit ThompsonLongRange.com to learn more about purchasing your next rifle or booking your next shooting school experience. The crew at Epic Outdoors trust StealthCam trail cameras to get us through the scouting season. StealthCam is the leading trail camera brand because they never stop innovating.

Check out their brand new line of trail cameras, including the Revolver 360-degree camera, at StealthCam.com. Epic Outdoors is an official StealthCam dealer. Call us to order yours today at 435-263-0777. Phonescope changed the game with their digiscoping innovations and have remained the top phone-to-optic adapter on the market. Check out the incredible new Carbon Pro Phonescope now at Phonescope.com. P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P-E dot com. Outdoor Edge is the knife that we all use here at Epic Outdoors. Whether it's a replaceable blade or fixed blade, you will not be disappointed with your Outdoor Edge knife. Head over to OutdoorEdge.com and check out their brand new Razer VX knife today. Epic Outdoors is proud to be an official Zeiss dealer and optics partner. When it comes to top-tier quality, Zeiss has been a leader in the industry for generations.

If you're in the market for new optics, give us a call for unbelievable deals on Zeiss products. Giving you the highest quality and durability out there without breaking the bank is what makes Zeiss so good. Check out our website, EpicOptics.com or call us at 435-263-0777 to find out which Zeiss Optic is perfect for you. Epic Outdoors is now an official CVA muzzleloader dealer. If you're in the market for a new muzzleloader, our staff can go over the different options that you should consider. CVA muzzleloaders are the go-to muzzleloader for Epic Outdoors and crew. We've definitely got our favorite setups for Western big game hunting in stock. Call us today at 435-263-0777 to find out which CVA is perfect for your next hunt.