EP 337: A Double Dose of Arizona Bulls with Nevin Jensen and Craig Sanchez

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Hey everybody, Jason Carter out of Brunson and Logan Marshall, just the three of us here in the podcast room today. Logan, thanks for turning on the heat for once. We appreciate it. You're welcome. I thought you guys... A little much. I don't know. Feels like July 24th in here. It's warm. I like it. Bring on trail cam season.

I'm ready to start scouting, aren't you, Brunson? Give me a month. Okay, all right. Anyway, we just wanted to get back on the podcast here. We are going to call a couple friends of ours, Nevin Jensen, Craig Sanchez. Both killed great bulls in Arizona this past year. The January 2025 magazine is out. I don't know if you've got it at your house. You should. If you haven't checked your mailbox, it's there. Check online. It's always been on there for a minute. A couple weeks early. I would say way early. But anyway, Arizona elk and antelope, it's covered that. Deadline of February 4th. And Wyoming elk. Of course, that was interesting. With the deadline day, print dates, all of these things dealing with the printers, as well as Wyoming coming out with exact regs on the other species. We went with elk only this year, Brunson. Yeah, we'll cover the other species in February.

As far as moose, sheep, goat, bison in Wyoming, we wanted to wait for their updated hunt planner to be updated. So we actually covered the units that are actually available for non-residents to apply for in 2025. So we waited a month, threw it in there, maybe shifted Oregon a little bit. You Oregonians don't get too... No, we get too well enough. We've got to tell May. You've got to tell May 15th. For criminy sakes, we've got to tell May. We got you. And then Wyoming elks do January 31st, always is. And then, of course, the other species will come way after that. And so it wasn't a huge deal. We just did it. I guess we get to choose, huh, Brunson? There's no red tape here. So anyway, we did it. And it is out. So January 2025 issue, here we go. It's out. We've got Nevin on the cover with a freaking giant six-point.

We want to call him, get the story, and see what he thought of that particular hunt. What kind of information we can glean from him. I have an idea of what he thought. Well, he got a good one. But that doesn't always mean it was a great hunt. Who knows? Well, it was like the first or second day. How bad could it be? I mean, it's got to... I mean, hearing you tell we're a little spoiled. I don't know. All right. Here, let's talk to him. Nevin's a good dude. Been a friend of ours for years and years. Him and his dad dealt with them. Great hunters. And just... Go the giant. Really freaking good guys. Here we go.

Hey, what's going on, man? How you doing? Good. How's it going? You got a few minutes to spare in your busy, busy schedule for us. Talk about this giant bull that brought back to Utah last fall. You can always make time for big bulls. Brought back to Utah where it belongs. Exactly. Yeah.

Well, we appreciate it. Yeah. We teed it up just a little bit. Talked about, you know, January mags out and Arizona's antelope and elk are teed up here first. And obviously point out that you're on the cover with just a giant from last year with your bow. So, yeah. I don't know. I guess take it away a little bit. Just tell the story. The story's in the magazine, but I mean... And it's titled When You Least Expect It. So, it'll be interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just still super grateful for that bull and grateful for you guys for putting that on the cover. But, yeah. Just still on cloud nine today. Think about it pretty much every day. And honestly, you just can't believe it still. But, yeah. It works out. So, as everybody probably knows, Arizona's about the first state we put in for. And so, I just had 10 bonus points this year.

My dad, he actually had 28, I guess, last year. And we've been talking to Jeff Lester. Jeff, he's the owner of Hunt Heart Outfitters. We started talking to him. It's been a long time ago about New Mexico. Yeah. I was looking for the guide draw out there. And just one of those things where he's from Arizona, so kind of just keep in touch every year and touch base with him. And so, mainly it was just for my dad's points. I was just kind of an afterthought, you know. And his son had a tag in Arizona in 2023. And they just saw a bunch of big bulls and, you know, multiple 370, 380, 390 type bulls. And my dad hated to use his points on an archery hunt. I know that. I've talked to you. How long have I talked to him, Nevin, about the Utah and Arizona points? It's like 15 years, it feels like. Yeah. So now, long story short, he's up to 29 for Utah and Arizona. And you've got a big bull.

He hasn't gone nowhere. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, decided to put him for that same unit that his son hunted in. And with me, I put that as my second choice. I put another, you know, kind of hard to get archery hunt as my first choice. 23 south or something. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Just seeing if I could get lucky. So, I never really ever even thought I had a chance of drawing. We kind of figured he was pretty much guaranteed. So, we knew we'd be hunting Arizona. And like I said in the story, just February when the results come out, I got a text. And it was from my credit card telling me that I had that charge from Arizona getting the fish for $650. And I about lost it. I was like, no way. So, I called my dad and tell him, did you check your credit card? And his hadn't got hit yet. And mine did. And we were both just pretty happy, obviously.

So, then he ended up also drawing. But to kind of make a long story short, in between, you know, the time when the draw comes out until the hunt. I had shoulder surgery. Had that in February. So, by about May, I was May, June. Back to shooting my bow, getting ready for this hunt. And obviously, building up strength. Nothing like I would like to be doing, preparing for a hunt like that. And then, kind of later on down the summer, I had a surgery five years ago on my wrist for a torn ligament. And it just happened. I was leaving clinic one day, and my wrist was just killing me. So, I thought it was tendonitis or just something with that. So, I went to the doctor to get a steroid shot. And he decided to take an x-ray. And it ended up being one of the screws from that previous surgery. He had backed completely out of one of my bones into my joint. That's got to be rare.

Doesn't the bone calcify in and around the screw or something? Yeah. So, my surgeon said that he'd never seen it and probably never see it again. Really? That's unlucky. Not like you have bone density problems or some kind of degeneration of the bone. So, they had like, we've got to get rid of that, basically, right? I'm getting old. I'm breaking down. What are you, 30? I don't know. Did you crest 30, 35? I'm 33, but I don't like to admit it.

So, I ended up going back to the guy who did my surgery. And he decided before he took the screw out, he might as well take some more x-rays. And just another bad luck deal. Don't know how it happened. And one of those bones was also completely broken in half in my hand. What? Jeez. How's that happen? You don't know how you break a bone in your head and have screws? No. He shot it. It had been broken for a little over a year just because, I don't know, kept using it and just didn't know it was broken. Working out or lifting or whatever you're doing. You're a proud candidate for a crossbow. That was also talked about, but I said, no, I'll never do that. Exactly. I'm proud of you. And in 2026, that's going away. If I'd have known that. Yeah, I saw that yesterday. Yeah, it's going away. Yeah. Yeah. So, crossbow was obviously talked about, but I didn't want to.

So, talking with the surgeon, I told him, well, man, I can't get surgery now. And he's not a hunter, obviously. But I told him kind of what the deal was and kind of explained to him the significance of this tag. And he didn't really get it. But I was like, so, look, we can put a cast on it for a few weeks because the hunt started mid-September. And this was like the first week of August. Oh, my gosh. And I was like, well, we can see if, because he didn't want to go in there and take the screw out before he knew, one, the bone was going to heal, or two, if he had to go, like, surgically, you know, repair the bone. And so, reluctantly, I got him just to put me in a hard cast. So, I was in a hard cast from, like, that first week of August up until two days before my hunt. So, September 12th, I got that cast off. And just my luck still didn't heal. So, then he wanted to do surgery.

But, so, I ended up getting that cast off on September 12th in Provo. Drove down to where I live in Cleveland. Shot my bow a few times. I mean, it was obviously, my wrist was pretty stiff being in the cast for, you know, five, six weeks. But everything kind of checked out. Bow was still tuned up. What about the bone? Was the bone healed enough? I mean, it just doesn't fit. Bone didn't heal one bit. What's going on? And it's okay to use it like you're using it? I mean, no, he didn't want me to. He didn't understand, but I told him, well. You got a random melt tag. Yeah, that's the emphasis of this. This is not like your dad's tag where, okay, you turn it in, point guard it, and we'll do this again. You got a random. You don't want to give this away. And you don't want to use a crossbow. No. No. So, I mean, yeah, like you said, definitely, you know, turning the tag in wasn't an option.

And, I mean, there's nothing wrong with crossbows. I just didn't want that experience, and I just kind of wanted to do it, you know. Like you always had everything else in your life. Yeah, exactly.

So, yeah. So, is this screw still like floating around? Like half backed out of bone? So, kind of the ending to that story, his surgery schedule is backed up. So, I actually had surgery on this hand the day before Thanksgiving this year. And two days ago, I ended up getting the hard cast off, and the bone healed. So, good ending to the story. Jeez. Well, okay. So, when you're pulling the bow back, I mean, are you stressing out this broken bone? Like, is it hurting, or is it? I mean, it's just stiff. I mean, it was just, you know, didn't have much mobility in that hand and no strength because it had been in that cast. Is it the draw hand or the release? So, I'm a little crazy. I'm right-handed, but I'm left-eye dominant. So, I pull my bow back, and I shoot left-handed. And so, my broken hand was my rifle. It sounds like you're a rifle hunter. You just need to resort to rifles.

Yeah, you've got all kinds of maladies. Wow. Okay. So, you... Hopefully, 2024 was the year to get them all done, though. All right. Wow. Okay. Well, so, you did that. You got the cast off, and yeah, you're not going to do surgery in a day or something. You're just going to have to go home. Yeah. Back to the hunt. You're just going to Arizona. Yeah. And your dad decided he wasn't going to hunt, right? At some point, he decided... This is all about you. You guys talked and like, hey, I can get this tag again. Maybe we shouldn't have two such elite tags and try to kill two giants, basically, right? And he turned his back. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah. So, I mean, obviously, 24 was a wet year leading up to it. So, we all thought it was going to be pretty dang good. But like you said, we just knew that trying to kill two big bulls is pretty hard with a bow.

And he obviously can get it any time he wants. So, yeah, he ended up turning it in, which worked out for me, because then we still had Jeff kind of on the hook. And now you get all the big bulls to yourself. Yeah, it worked out great. The plan was... Jeff's thinking, I've got a hunter with broken wrists. I've got a left-eyed dominant. Left-eyed shooter. Right-eyed, right-handed. Wreck going on. Yeah, a little bit goofy. But, yeah, it worked out for me. So, my dad turned his tag in, point guarded it. And then, so obviously, I was left. So, that kind of worked out. So, then we ended up going down. You know how things get. Everything's always so busy. So, Jeff went down three days before the hunt and started looking. And then my dad and I, we started heading down just the day before the hunt.

And we planned on going in the morning, getting there at night, you know, settling in, doing some glassing. But that never goes to plan. I could totally see your dad tied up in the shop. It's like you just, you know, you're leaving business going. Yeah. Exactly. Cabinets. Yeah. And then we ended up stopping in Richfield and doing cabinets on our way down there. Where you going? I knew it. We can write the whole trip off now. Exactly. So, we ended up pulling into camp, like, I think about one in the morning probably. Hunt starts in about five hours. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. But like I say, luckily, Jeff, I mean, he'd been there and his son had that tag. So, he kind of had an idea of where we wanted to go. So, I mean, he was awesome. Great guy. Loves elves. He's a hard hunter. Yeah. Hard hunter. So, I mean, felt pretty good about it. Yep.

But then, so that first morning, we just planned on the same thing. We got out of camp probably like, I don't know, two hours before daylight and just going to kind of drive the roads, listen for some bugles. And it was pretty slow. There weren't many bugles. So, this would have been September 14th. And, you know, not much rutting activity, it didn't seem like. So, we ended up just going to this spot where it has this big kind of circular kind of rock outcropping that just overlooks this big, this kind of Ponderosa Valley down below. And we hiked up there. I mean, instantly, there's elk everywhere. There was probably like four different groups of elk. All had probably 10 to 15 cows and each had a bull. So, in those first, I don't know, 10, 50 minutes of daylight, there was like, I don't know, a couple 340, 350 bulls.

You know, good bulls, but just kind of not what we were looking for at that time. And my dad and Jeff kind of picked up and walked kind of around this rim to look over on the other side of it. And I stayed back. And about five minutes after they left, I could kind of hear them. You know, you can tell when somebody's pretty excited. So, I picked up my tripod, headed over there. And, I mean, you could see, I mean, those big bulls, you know, they're just bright yellow, it seems like, out in the sunlight. And he just stood out like a sore thumb. He was probably like, I don't know, 800, 900 yards away. And, yeah, when I got my binoculars on him, just about crap. He's over. Yeah, back end and fronts that hook up. I mean, he doesn't have nothing he's like. Yeah, good looking sucker.

Yeah, just, I mean, like I said in my story, like all year long I talked about, like, I just want this perfect Arizona bull. And, to me, like a big typical, you know, great big back end, wide. And, yeah, when we focused in on him, it was just unreal, you know, just 25 inch fourth and 18 inch fifth and big fronts wide. And just kind of knew that was a bull. Kind of had it all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, at that time, it was probably, you know, we watched him for, I don't know, maybe like an hour. But up on that thing, the wind was just horrible. The wind was kind of coming through that valley right at us. And we just didn't want to spook him out the first day of the hunt. So, we just kind of sat back and watched him. And then there was another bull. We call him the seven point. He comes up. And he actually gets in a fight with my bull. And just kind of a weird thing.

We're sitting there watching him fight. And all of a sudden, you know, the bull we were looking for, my bull, he just disappears. So, we don't know what happened. And so, I'm still just kind of glued on that spot trying to pick him out. Don't know if he took a sword. The seven point in the cows. The sword guy threw the ribs, maybe. Exactly. Do you think he chipped that third, his left third? You know, I have video of him fighting. And when he leaves the fight, he still has that third. So, I think he did it later that night when he got more cows. So, he fought that seven point. It was probably, I don't know, four or five minutes. Seven point ends up taking his cows and coming right under us. Well, I mean. Is he a pretty big bull? But he's not as big as the other one. Yeah. Yeah. And he's a good bull, 350, 360.

But obviously, just kind of decided that the big bull was the only one that I wanted. So, I'm still looking around. And in the exact spot those bulls were fighting, probably like two minutes after the last time we saw him, there was another hunter and a guy on a radio, which I pretty much figured was a guide. And my heart just dropped. I was just like, no way. Yeah. You know, because that bull disappeared and the seven point took the cow. So, didn't know if they shot him. Did they shoot him? No. What? So, yeah, I just kind of sicked. And so, we sat there for probably another, I don't know, hour and a half, two hours, and never turned up the big bull again.

So, you know, like I say, not really knowing what happened to him, we ended up going back down to camp, just kind of regrouping for the day and getting a plan. And that's when we started looking at video and putting some numbers on him and just like, yeah, this is pretty much a 400-inch bull. We've got to kill him. Yeah. Jeez. So, same thing. We decided, well, just going to pretty much stick it out for him. And so, that night we decided a little bit different thing. We sent my dad up on the hill to glass. And Jeff and I just kind of went in where we saw the bull last, hoping, you know, hear a bugle, just get lucky. You know, you can't really glass down in there. You're basically just listening and still hunting. Yeah. In the jungle. Yeah. It's a jungle.

So, that night it was slow. We never didn't hear a bugle. And then we actually didn't see any elk that night. My dad, he glassed up one of the bulls from the morning before, like a 346 point. He had cows. And then that seven point was also in there. And he still had all the cows. And then there was another hunter and a guide on our out rock, kind of that rock outcropping that my dad was on. So, it was obviously picking up. And we kind of figured that, you know, kind of figured every day that went on, more people would kind of, hopefully not. I mean, odds are they're going to hear about the bull and people are going to start talking and going to get busier and busier. So, we kind of knew we had to make something happen. But, so, no big bull that night. And, I mean, now that we know what we know, I think he just left, got his cows, broke his dang horn, and came back.

But anyway, so we went back to camp that night and kind of just planned on the same thing for the following day. But we wanted to be there early because we just wanted to be the first people there. And I also just wanted to be there and see if we could hear bugles. So, that next morning, we probably woke up, I think it was about three hours before daylight. Jeez. That's perfect. Yeah. From the camp to where we were hunting was probably like a 30-minute drive. Just got there, like I say, probably two, two and a half hours before daylight. And my dad dropped Jeff and I off again. And like I say, our plan was just going to kind of still hunt. And the wind was perfect again, kind of going the same way it was that morning before. And so, we were kind of had it in our face all morning. And then my dad was going to go back up to our glass and point just to see if he could

pick something out, see the bull. And, I mean, it was probably five minutes after he dropped us off, there were three pickups coming down the road with all their headlights on. We're just like, holy cow. Everybody's earning. Here it come. Yeah. Pretty much kind of had a guess that was going to happen. But so, we had some competition. So, we just kept going in there. You know, at that point, we didn't want to turn our headlamps on or anything. So, we're just kind of going step by step, listening. And, I mean, there were a few bugles that morning. We could hear four. Two bugles we could tell were like together. One bugle was by himself. And then one bugle was across the road from where we'd come. So, we just kind of kept going right into where, you know, the three bulls that we could hear were up when we were hunting. And, I mean, time went pretty quick.

We did hear some other vehicles come in. And those bulls, there were three of them. And they wasn't like crazy rut, you know. It was still pretty sparse. But they would bugle, I don't know, once every 10 minutes or so. And as we got closer to daylight, you could tell the two bugles kind of got together. And they were kind of going back and forth with each other. But then there was still one bugle. He was pretty sparse. Like once every, I don't know, 20, 30 minutes. We heard him probably three times that morning. But so, we're getting up there. And we figure we're probably like 200, 300 yards away from the single bugle. And like same, 300, 400 yards away from those two bugles. And at this time, it was kind of getting light. And luckily, my dad was up on that hill. So, he glassed the two bulls. And it was that same six point from the day before. Like three, I don't know, 40-ish bull.

And that seven point. He couldn't see these other bulls. They were kind of in a little, like thick little spot of just those pinions down there. And the wind was perfect for us. It was right at our face towards that one. And so, I mean, Jeff and I figured, well, we might as well check this bull out. And then if, you know, it's not our bull, we can go across the road and try to see if that bull that we're hearing over there is him. So, we just kind of same thing, just keep crapping up there. We didn't want to call, let him know that we were there. So, we kind of knew the general area they were in. And just, like I say, him sparsely bugling. We just kept kind of working our way. And then everything just, you know, when you get in there, it just happens quick. So, we were still moving up. And all of a sudden, you could see elk legs, like, underneath those pinions.

And at this point, I mean, it's thick. So, we're close. We're probably 60, 70 yards from him. But it's just too thick to tell. And so, we kind of still work up there. Wind's perfect. So, we're not worried about him smelling us, just going super slow so they don't pick us off. And we probably cut it another, I don't know, 10, 15 yards. And just crazy still. All of a sudden, this bull, I mean, my bull now, feels good to say. But you could see his antler tips. This bull that's in my house. Yeah, exactly. His antler tips, we could see him above the pinions. And just we looked at each other like, no way. You're going blind on a bugle. You heard three times that morning. Yeah. Knew it wasn't the other two. That's awesome. What are the chances? And, you know, you got other people converging. Yeah. Jeez. It was just, I mean, we keep saying it, but I just keep saying it was just meant to be. Yeah.

And stuff like that is. Jeff was living right. Yeah. Well, you don't live a terrible life, Devin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Something went wrong. I mean, then just, it seems like it never works out too. Elk are crazy, you know. They get one sniff and they're out of there. Those cows pick you off and they're out of there. But, and it seems like the bull is always right in the middle of them or always seems like he's on the far end of them. Well, he was the closest one to us. Wow. And he was kind of working back and forth, but where these bulls, like the cow and the bull was, it was just super thick still. So he started coming left and he starts raking this tree and just this tree's about breaking in half. He's just raking the crap out of it. And then he stops, bugles once more and just crazy, you know, when you're that close and they bugle, just kind of the hair on your neck stands up. Oh, yeah.

But where he was going, he was kind of working to our left and we weren't going to get a shot and just kind of how it goes. I'm sitting there thinking, dang, well, it was cool to be this close, but he's going to have to pull a miracle for us and basically do a 180 and walk about 20 yards the other way. Well, that's what he did. He turns and I'm just like, well, there's the first miracle and he now just keep walking. So at this point, we still, we can't see his whole, his whole antlers. You know, we just see his basically like seven inches of his fourth, seven inches of his fifth, but they're just so dang big. We knew it was him. And the way he's walking, there was kind of a row of, I don't know, like 10 pinions, just thick. And then there was one where it kind of didn't grow. So we had about a three foot gap there. And I was like, well, if he can get to there, we can shoot him.

And so I get ready. And I mean, Arizona, luckily you can use the Garmin still. And I think those things are awesome. So I didn't have to worry about range and dial anything. So I just kind of got ready. Obviously had an arrow knocked and Jeff was to my left. And then this bull, he's just start slowly, you know, those bulls and I get that stiff legged walk. He's just slowly walking. And then I'm like, dang, he's going to, he might just make it to that opening. And like in between me and the opening. So after the fact, the opening is 56 yards, but probably like at, I don't know, 20 yards, there's like a little stunted pinion that was dead. And so I knew my arrow would go over it. So at this point, I'm just worried that because I'm kneeling down, I'm worried if I'm going to be able to range through that. But anyway, that's on the back of my mind. The bull keeps walking.

And then it's obvious he's going to go right in this little gap. There's a tree behind the gap, left of the gap, right of the gap. And like I say, it's probably three feet wide. And crazy. I tell my dad all the time, like, I just, I wasn't nervous at all. Like my heart wasn't beating. I was just thinking clearly, just, just ready, luckily. And that bull, we could see his nose come in. And so right when his kind of front shoulder gets in, he's still walking. So I kind of simultaneously just kind of get, kind of stand from my knees and draw. Jeff whistles. And at this time, I'd already pushed my little button to range, he means 56 yards. So my pin comes up and Jeff whistled and he stopped on a dime. And instantly I sent that arrow. And I always use fluorescent yellow veins so I can, you know, you can see where your arrow hits and you can watch it fly the whole way.

And, I mean, I've shot a lot of things and you just know when you, you know, you hit something good and watch that arrow and it buried what I thought was perfect. I mean, and that bull took off and just kind of one of those things you just don't believe it. I kind of looked at Jeff and tried to tackle him a few times and we were just pumped. Just honestly. He's like, that's a money shot right there. Yeah. Just same thing. Just thought of bull. One of those things you think you're going to have just like a fire hydrant blood trail and he's going to be 50 yards piled up, you know? Yeah. So we kind of sit there for, I don't know, probably 10, 15 minutes. Let my dad know what was going on. Then, like I say, just this one spot of this little flat so thick that my dad just can't pick up this elk just because it's so thick. So we ended up tracking him about 15 minutes after the shot. We go up.

The arrow didn't pass through so we didn't find the arrow and just, you know, a bow hunt is. You think you're going to have a big bull up there dead and there was just like drops of blood. I mean, some places would have, you know, like a baseball size drop. But I mean, it was just like quarter drop of blood, blood, blood. Nothing like what you're expecting. Crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Frustrating. And on the kill photos, it looks perfect. Like everything. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I thought it was going to be perfect. Like I say, I thought he was going to be dead. So then, you know, bow hunting, you're just thinking, holy cow, what did I do? And so then you get replayed in my mind and I'm like, well, maybe I hit him too far back or because I knew I didn't hit him forward in the shoulder. So I'm like, well, maybe I hit him in the liver or maybe guts. I don't know.

But I'm like, there's no way I saw that arrow. It was perfect. Even liver. He had a lot of blood. Dead fat. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. So we tracked him that morning for probably, I don't know, 100 yards. And luckily that dirt's pretty soft, kind of a sand-like dirt. So when we could pretty much dry track him. And there was blood too, but just not a lot of blood, you know. So we ended up finally, my dad calls us probably about five minutes after we had started looking for him. And he saw him walking. Well, the wound was on his right side. My dad was looking down in the valley so he could just see his left. His left was clean. So he says, well, his left side's clean, but he's walking barely. Like, every step's like an effort. And this bull, from my dad's point of view, is just like hurt one step. Labor intensive. One step. Yeah. Yeah. Nose is straight down in the dirt.

Just like barely moving, you know. So just hold up, basically. Stop. Yeah. Yeah. So we decided to get out of there. Not worth, you know, pushing him. So we regroup, head back to camp. And I'm obviously just, I'm sick. Your dad's still on the glass watching? Or did he head back to? So we, at that time, we actually all climbed up on the hill. And we spent probably an hour glass and didn't pick up the cows, didn't pick up the bull. And so we just decided to get out of there. So our truck wasn't in there. And people, you know, knew we weren't in there looking. Go back to camp.

Just, like I say, still thinking about the shot. And we had ourselves talked into, well, I must have hit him low and back. And at the same, I'm just sitting here thinking the whole time, like, geez, I watched those yellow fletchings. And it's right where I had my pen. So we end up sitting there for probably three hours. And like I say, just bow hunting. Just right now, I'm on the lowest of lows. Eating at you. Yeah. Promising I'm never going to pick up one of those stupid bows again. Yeah. With the cracked wrist and pins. Crossbow or nothing.

Just stick with the rifle. That's right.

But we end up heading back out probably at 2 o'clock. Same thing. Jeff and I, the plan was we were going to go to where we had hit the bull and just kind of restart. My dad climbed back up on the same point. And just kind of the same thing as, you know, that morning. Just dry track name. And I mean, I say dry track. And every track had blood. But just, you know, just like a quarter drop. Not a lot of blood. Not a little bit. The hook track and running. Yep. Exactly. And so we just keep tracking that. And it was probably, I don't know, maybe 45 minutes to an hour of just kind of slowly picking our way through. And at this point, I'm just because we're, you know, getting four, 450 yards away from where I shot him. And at this point, I'm just sick. Just thinking. We've all been there. Where the arrow could have went and what happened. But, you know, Jeff, he always stayed pretty positive.

So that was good. And he just kept going. And we kind of split up. We kind of lost the track. So I kind of walked kind of veered to the left. I was probably like 30, 40 yards to Jeff's left. And all of a sudden, I heard him say, here's your bull. And I thought he was joking. I didn't know what he was doing. So I walk over there. And sure enough, that bull was just laying dead as dead. And it looked like he died in his feet and just fell over. And that was it. Wow. It looks like he died early, too. I mean, he was stiff. But, yeah, we walked up there. And as you can see in the kill pictures, you know, I mean, that arrow, if I could have went up and stabbed him in a place that I don't think I would have changed it. Yeah, just elk are crazy and tough bull wanting to live. Big bodied sucker looks like that.

I don't know if I, you know, just had the perfect little spot where I missed lungs, missed heart, didn't get a big vest. Sometimes I wonder if you hit them right when they exhale or something. But weird like that. Yeah, you have a, it goes in there and you have a slight, you hit a rib, but it hits and kicks back a little bit further than going straight through or angling forward. Just a slight. So the entrance hole is perfect, but maybe the arrow angled through him a little bit different. Went further back, you know, I don't know. So then he ended up, what, 394 broken? So yeah, we, yeah, we think based on our video. And so he obviously broke that left third from the day before. And the bad thing, it was the, he's kind of flip flop, but it was the bigger third of the two. Yeah. Oh, wow. His right third was like 15 and a half. And that left one broke was 11.

So we're thinking it was 15 and a half, 16. And then his long sword, he broke what looks like about an inch off of it. And then his left beam about an inch. So we're thinking anywhere from, you know, five, six, seven inches, eight, maybe, you know, just depending on how that stuff measured out. But I mean, walking up to him, just a giant, you know, I was just ecstatic. Just couldn't believe how big he looks on the ground. Yeah. You know, the only time I reminded me, so when I killed that Rocky, we knew he was big. And then when you get to him, he's just unbelievably big, you know, and, and then my one bull buck, same thing. We thought he was big, but then you, when you see how big they are and that was what this bull was like, we had him guess basically to the inch of what he was, but just when he's actually there on the ground, just, it's unreal.

The 400 inch bull is just really an excellent. Yeah. He ended up, so his G1s were 21 and G2s are like 18 and a half and 19 and a half. G3s, like I said, were like 15 and a half on that unbroken one. And then that broken one ended up being 11. But then his Royal, so his four on his right is 24. And I think, was it three quarters or seven eighths? And his left was 22. Right G5 was 18. The left one was like 16, if I remember right, 54 and 51 inch beam and 46 inches wide. So it was just. 46 inside. Huh? Yeah. 46 inside. That's great. That's wide. Good, solid average is 40. I mean, so that gave you a gift right there. Yeah. So it was just. A lot of hugging and high-fiving and hooting and hollering and all that. Especially, it doesn't matter if you had went 50 or 100 yards and you walked up. But especially after that little bit of agony, three, four hours, whatever it was of what? Replaying it.

We've all been there with Bo. And sometimes, a lot of times, they don't end good. You know? Yeah. And when you don't find something in 400 or 500 yards that think it's a perfect shot, it usually doesn't end good a lot of times. No. So, you know how you get a rainstorm or something that washes some of that out? It could have been a long ago. Although, your dad did have been glassed up. He did glass him a ways down. He knew the last. I mean, that did help. We kind of knew his direction he was headed. Did he go very far from that spot? Or could your dad tell, like, from where I last saw him? And then. Yeah. Did he go very far? Did the shot happen to where he was? Was it half mile or mile? Or what was it? Yes. From where I shot him, he ended up going 495 yards. I mean, it wasn't a crazy distance. It was still more than you'd like. Yeah. Especially in thick country. Yeah.

But yeah, after being so, you know, low all day and ending good, I mean, just high rollercoaster again. Just bowhunt for you. That's right. You love it and hate it and then you love it. Yeah. Exactly. When it works out, you love it. You mentioned your Rocky. That was back in the Ruby's days, right? Yeah. Back in Nevada. In the heyday. Nevada had giant Rams in the Ruby's. What were you, 13 or something? 13 or 14, Nevin? You drew the one non-risent tag? How old were you? Yeah. I was 16. 16. Sorry. Well, you're young, bud. And it was, what did he end up going? Like, 190 or something? Yeah. He netted 190 in growth, like 192. Yeah. Yeah. That was when they had just giants. Yeah. You drew the one non-risent tag. I mean, we knew you. Yeah. That goes back to when John says little kids shouldn't draw tags. Yeah. You're probably the initiator of what initiated those feelings of John.

John always says, I don't know if you've listened to podcasts, but he hates it when the kids draw wazoo crazy tags. We've all been trying to draw and we're old. But anyway, you've had some great hunts over the course of time for sure. Yeah. Absolutely. I lucked out a few times, but yeah, this bull is funny. So that first morning when we were looking at him, I sent some pictures to my little sister. She loves hunting too. And she said, is that as big as he looks? And I said, yeah, he's as big as he looks. So she tells me, well, why don't you go kill him? And I mean, I'm saying, well, you know, wind's bad. Don't want to spook him out, this and that. And so she says, well, are you going to kill him? And I said, well, you know, I sure hope so, but it doesn't always work out that way. But this time it luckily did. This time it did. It's awesome.

Well, we appreciate you coming to us, making it come to life a little bit. And, you know, I guess when you least expect it, something can happen. I don't know. And then I guess, I don't know. I don't know if your dad's going to go right back or not, or if he's going to stick to a gun. We'll find out here in a month. I guess you've got to figure out how to spend your cover credit on some optics or something. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to have to. But they'll be thinking. You've got about everything already, but they also invent new things every day. Yeah, they sell new guns, new optics every day. There's new stuff coming out all the time. That's right. Well, Nevin, appreciate your time and hope you're doing well. We'll see you in Salt Lake or something next month. Yeah, sounds good, guys. All right, congrats again. You'll see you next month at the Expo. Okay. Congrats, man. Talk to you soon.

Thanks. We'll see you guys later. Bye-bye.

Pretty awesome. Yeah, I'm glad he bought up that sheet. That was a long time. Oh. And then it was just a couple years after that. We were salivating when he killed that ram. And you think those things are going to last forever. Last forever. And everything changes. And now here we are. Did that have a date on that picture, Logan? Well, I'll say 16 minus 33. Yeah, so 17, 18. He posted that one in, yeah. 20 years. What year was it? 21? 20, 25. 2005. I thought it said 15 was when he posted it, but he also said it was a throwback. Oh, okay. Yeah, never mind. Yeah. I don't know. So, it was killed. 2005-ish. Yeah, they did have it. Let's put it through. They didn't have Instagram when he killed that. No. They had MySpace. I don't even know if they had that, actually. Yeah, no. Exactly. And that was before digital. Remember the digital pictures? I mean, that was. That was. That's ram there.

Desert sheep. I guided Nevenon right there to the lower right. Yeah. Right there. That was. I don't know what year that was. That might have been a throwback, too. But that was an awesome, awesome ram out in the Utah Escalante. All right. Anyway. Jeez. Let's talk about another big six. Well, I want a big elk. I mean, I'm fired up. 400-inch six is what you want. Right. Let's make it happen this year somehow. That's kind of my goal at some point in life when I get big. All right. Let's call Craig Sanchez. Super good guy. He's retired from the New Mexico game and fish. But one of those guys that just is a hard hunting sucker. And he had a lot of points. He masked a lot of points, too. And he retired. He retired. And then used him. Every year, we'd go over the options. And just one of those things. You want to make the right choice. And you're always nervous to use them.

And anyway, he finally just did it. So let's call and get his story.

Hey, man. Hey, what are you doing? Oh, just trying to earn some gas money. What does that mean? That's called the retirement check. That's plenty for gas. Well, you got to be able to put gas in the truck to go bounce around through the woods, right? You can never have enough gas money. I always think they made state cards for that. Well, they used to. But you didn't have one of those anymore. They used to. That's right. That's right. Oh, how you been? Good? Good, man. Winter finally showed up. It got cold this week. Oh, it did up here finally. We were 65 degrees until last week. Wow. It got cold the last couple days. Really cold. Yep. Yep. Same over here. Got a whole lot of moisture with it. No. Cold weather. We were watching some radar, and it looked like it hit a little bit in central New Mexico yesterday. Yeah, a little bit. A little bit, yep. Well, good. Well, all right.

So we want to hear the story on your Arizona bull. It's one of those things you've had a lot of points saved up for many, many years. Arizona. Arizona. It's kind of a bittersweet deal, man. You know, you start applying for Arizona, and you're excited, and you really want to go hunt these premium units. And then 28, 29 years later, you finally draw the tag, and it's like, man, am I excited about this or not? Or am I nervous? There's some pressure. This is three decades. Yeah. You've got three decades riding on this. Yeah, it was a long time, long time. And when I started the process, I was really wanting to hunt Unit 9. Yeah. And I kind of, here in the last few years, I've kind of stuck to that Unit 9 and 10, Early Rifles, what I've been applying for, Early Muzzle Loader. Yeah. And finally drew the tag, and never set foot in the unit, so I started doing all my research.

In fact, you guys also provided me with a list of past clients, so that was helpful. Yeah. I talked to a lot of people, learned the unit virtually, and I decided I was just going to go out there and just go do it, do it on my own, and go hunt. It's hard to scout the rut without being in the rut. Yeah. It's hard. You know, so then you kind of just do it as you go. Learning roads and glassing points and that type of thing, and it's, what, March when you find out you draw them. It's like spring, and you're pretty flat and thick, and so you need them talking to you. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So, I kind of went in with the mindset that, you know, I'm going for the experience. I love to kill a giant bull like everybody, and you know, that's the goal, but at the same time, I just wanted to go do the Arizona experience, and no matter how it turned out, I was going to be okay with it.

And like you said, it's thick and flat in that country, right? Yeah. And sometimes you can't look at all the bulls because they're bugling, but you can't see them. And so, you know, the bull I actually shot, it was kind of a, I didn't have a, but a few seconds to decide if I was going to shoot him or not, just for the simple fact that it's so thick, and when you put eyes on them, you may not see them again. Yeah. So, it was, you know, I guess I went out four or five days early to go scout and learn the unit, and I was fortunate to meet some good people out there that even turned me on with some tips and information. And the opening day started, and there was a big bull that some guys I met were kind of turned me on to, and we were actually trying to kill that bull, and I got to experience the Arizona caravan hunting, I guess is what I'll call it. Oh, yeah?

No, you could put Utah in front of that, too, or a lot of those things. Yeah. What about New Mexico Oryx? Yeah, well, yeah. Did you have a starting line down there in unit nine? I mean, they didn't have a checkered flag that went off, but I drew the early, I had the early rifle tag, so there were only 20 tags in the unit, which was good. Yeah. And the opening morning, there was about, I don't know, 10 vehicles that I saw come through into the area where we were at, and kind of come to find out another, or I guess some other guys or an outfitter had also seen this bull that we were looking for, and it's hard to compete with an army. Yeah, it is. And they killed that big bull opening day, which is fine. It's public land. That's how it goes. Do you buy yourself, Craig? Like, literally by yourself? I might have missed it. Are you literally alone?

Well, I was alone, but I hooked up with some guys out there that were very helpful, that knew the unit and hunted it a lot. Okay. And kind of were a couple glasses or something. Put you on to a couple of... Yeah, they were helping me out with their information on this bull. Oh, and... The bull that got killed, the bull that got killed just real quick that, you know, that you were kind of after, what did he end up going? I don't know what he scored, but he was a big bull. I saw a picture of him dead, and he was a big bull. I don't know if he had eight or seven, eight by seven, something like that, that kind of broke him up. He was a good bull. Like 390s in tech or something? Probably. Yeah, probably so. Yeah. He was a real good bull. So, you know, so that kind of hurt a little bit, like the bull you were hoping to kill got killed.

So, what you do is you move on and you find another one, right? Yeah. Well, and there's a bunch of people that got to leave now, so hopefully it frees up a little space in the forest. Hopefully the caravan exits the area. And they did. Yeah. And they sure did. So, now you got the place to yourself, right? Yeah. So, with that being said, I looked at a lot of bulls, and what I was seeing is bulls are starting to break, and I almost feel like some of the bigger bulls are almost pulling off some of the cows just because you weren't seeing those giant bulls with cows, just good bulls. Yeah. And ultimately, I think it was the third day of the hunt. I probably should have waited. My wife was kind of mad that I didn't hunt for the full seven days. But on day three, I was in on a group of bulls, and as you guys know, when they're heading to their bedding areas, they travel a few miles.

They almost can't catch them. Well, you get behind them, and you can't catch them. Well, I caught them. But you're right. You get behind them, and they're just moving. Yeah. Yeah. And there was, I don't know, five or six bulls that were bugling and moving off into their bedding areas. And I snuck in on four of them, looked at them. And when I say snuck in, I'm talking like 20 yards sneaking in. Wow. Because it's so thick in there. Nice bulls, you know, probably 300 to 320 class bulls. And finally, one bull caught my eye as I got a glimpse of him going through the trees. And he had a lot longer tines than those other bulls I've been seeing. And I kind of kept staying on him. And I probably shouldn't tell you this, but I'm going to. Okay. I like it. Keep going. Juicy. Unit 9 borders the Grand Canyon National Monument. Yeah. It's actually called Park. Yeah. Or Park.

It's called the Hard Park Monument. We call it the Hard Park. Basically, you can't hunt it. Yeah.

So you can call it whatever you want. Off limits. They've got those. Yeah, that's right. They've got those helicopter tours. Oh. Yeah. And those helicopters would swing down south and make a loop. And they'd come over Unit 9. And then they'd loop back around, back into the park. And every time one of those helicopters would fly over my head, I'd close the distance on those bulls. Yeah. Make noise. There you go. Kind of like jets. Jets. Yeah. When you get a loud jet move, you make a move on a bed of deer. Yeah. Right. Right. And keep in mind, I didn't have a clue what this bull was or how big he was. So finally, I got in position. And I could see his legs coming through the trees. And, of course, the wind's right. Otherwise, he'd have blown out a long time ago. And he walks through this opening. And I could just see he was really, really long. He's long everywhere. Fours and threes. Yeah.

He was really long. And, you know, you either shoot him or you let him walk. And you never see him again. Yeah. Yeah. So I decided to kill him. And, I don't know, the shot was like 45 yards. And just in the thick PJ. Just thick trees. Even Adam 6'5 Creedmoor could do that. No, yeah. Yeah, I bet it could. This guy over here, you know. Jeez. We've been teasing him about that. But anyway, keep going. Well, yeah. Yeah. You know, make sure he takes pictures of that so he knows he's not lying about it. Yeah. Morgan's going to video whatever I kill. Recover the bullet. That's right. All right. Keep going. Right. Exactly. So you smoke him at 45. And now you're like, okay, I'm going to walk up on what I was looking through my scope and hope he's as big as he looked. Pretty much. That's exactly how it is. And you can't have any regrets when you pull that trigger. No.

And when you look at him at 45 yards on any kind of power optic. You're also trying to govern your brain and what you're really seeing. You're looking at bloodlines and they look big. Right. I mean, it's just, ugh. It's hard. Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, I made the, I already made up my mind that when I pull the trigger, I'm not going to have any regrets. Yeah. I'm there for the experience. And, you know. Yeah. He didn't go, he didn't go 10 yards and was expired there. Yeah. And walk up to him and. He's awesome. You know, he's a good bull. He's an old bull. He's probably eight and a half based on his lower jaw. So, I mean, he was an old bull. Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, I was happy with him. I was fortunate to have those guys help me pack him out. You know, we had to pack him out about a mile. So, it was, it was bittersweet. It was bittersweet. But I went and got my Arizona bull.

So, that's a good thing. Well, and he's awesome. Would you do it any different looking back on it? Would you, you know, choose some different unit or different weapon? Would you go archery? I mean, you've thought about everything over the years. Yeah. Yeah. The unit is exceptional. It was, it lived up to the hype of the high bull to cow ratio for sure. Luckily, there was a lot of bugling activity. But, you know, looking at it, I think, granted, I'll never draw that tag again. But an archery tag in that unit would be off the charts. It really would. Yeah. So, you know, yeah, maybe you'd have said, well, you could have hunted 10 years sooner probably, maybe. I don't know, roughly. Yeah, probably could have. If you did a bull. But, I mean, you're also retired last year or whenever. So, you can't really complain about that either.

You had all the time you wanted without any other pressures of work or things like that. Yeah, exactly. And I think if there was anything I could do different, I think I would have went out there. Or, I had intentions of going out there in the summertime just to learn the unit. Yeah. And just never made it over there. And so, here we go. What did you, how did you feel about the antler growth last year in nine? I know it kind of varies unit to unit in Arizona depending on when and where, you know, the moisture falls. But what was your thoughts on that? What I saw and just in talking with, you know, local game wardens over there and people and there was really strong antler growth on the front end. You know, spring had good moisture. And then everybody I talked to, you know, I talked to several guides out there that were looking for elk for clients.

And everybody told me that they just don't have the top ends that they normally do in that unit. And I almost turned my tag back in. And then I thought, you know, I'm getting older and I just want to go hunt. And sometimes, you know, just going hunting in a great spot is worth it. Good stuff can happen. Yeah. And a good unit. And it's not like you had an average unit. And I think that's a good perspective as Adam and I get older too. I mean, we're the, you know, Craig, we've known each other 20 plus years. Right. I mean, it just, you do change a little. You have an appreciation for the hunt. And it's not just, you don't just say, this is about the experience so I don't feel guilty if I underachieve or if the public perceives that I underachieve and all this pressure. You do feel that way. Like you feel like it is more about the experience or the kids or whatever it is. Exactly.

That's exactly right. And, you know, you guys have killed a lot of animals. And, you know, for me, it gets to a point like I've shot a lot of elk in my life. And it's just another elk. And it's another elk hunt that's going to generate those memories for you. And any bull that's 330 or bigger, they're all big. You know, it comes down to time length, basically. They're all big, mature animals. And just getting to be able to hunt them and have that experience, it's kind of put in perspective. Don't get me wrong. We all want to kill that giant. Yeah, 400 or something crazy. But you've had a lot of great experiences in New Mexico. And you've also done it on some of those odd seasons. Right. You know, and different things with, you know. And then, of course, I mean, you just put in your time and really a lot of effort into that.

What's your opinion, changing states a little bit, like what's your opinion about New Mexico? We're a little nervous. Obviously, it's dry here, maybe a little bit dry there. But New Mexico is just such an awesome state. You and I have talked a lot about it. And Adam as well. Just, you know, as far as, you know, drought sensitive. But yet there's a lot of big country and bulls that aren't named like we have here in Utah. Exactly. Yeah. But, yeah, you know, New Mexico is still a fantastic destination for big game hunting across the board. And, you know, you do have certain areas like the Gila's where people are just pounding it, shed hunting, scouting, all the above. But there's so many other units that can produce giants. And like you said, there's critters out there that nobody knows about. And then they just show up randomly. And it's like, where the heck did that guy come from?

Yeah, and in crazy places. It's wide open desert stuff. Yep, crazy places. Low densities produce giants, it seems like. We do. Odd units producing giants. Yep. That's exactly right. And anymore, these darn elk are so habitual to things. I mean, you could find elk almost anywhere in the state anymore. And it's just crazy where they turn up. Yeah. A little bit like Arizona, too. I mean, it's some great elk habitat and a lot of good to marginal. But elk are like coyotes. They can live about anywhere. And so... That's exactly right. They'll figure it out. And where they go and be left alone for a bit, they'll call it... You've got elk out in that oryx country. I mean, just... Oh, I know. It's insane. Yeah. And even southern Arizona, they push way deep down in like 28. I mean, you've got... Yeah. ...choia's six, eight feet high, and they're living in bad stuff down there. Right.

I can't believe even the places you've got big mule deer, too, in New Mexico. Like, yeah, we've got the traditional unit twos and fives and sevens and all that. But, man, there's a lot of country. There's a lot of country in this state. There is. And then, you know, you hear a giant buck turning up in, you know, unit 15 or even farther south in 23 or 27. I mean, it's just crazy where a big mule can turn up in this state. Yeah. Well, it's pretty awesome. We sure appreciate the story and a little bit of the feedback. I mean, it's just awesome. The bull is incredible. It looks like he has big old fours to me, big thirds, big front end heavy. Doesn't look like maybe some flaking chips, but nothing giant. Yeah, he's a little broke on the left side. Yeah, sword and a second maybe, looks like a little bit. That's exactly right. But, I mean, not missing half the time or anything.

So, he's still pretty intact for units like that, which, you know, after an archery hunt and deeper into the rut and a lot of bulls, like you've talked about, to fend off and fight and all that. He's pretty intact. You probably know a pretty good taxonomist that could fix some of that. Yeah, I know a guy. I do that, so. Craig's a man of all trades. He does a little everything. Here's the sad thing. He just went into the stack of antlers that need to be mounted someday. Well, that'll take up a lot of room in a house. Elk are not like deer or antelope or coos deer. You can stuff them about anywhere. I mean, how many elk can you hang in your house? Well, upside down on a bar, quite a few. That's right. That's what I've got. I just. That'll do it. Yeah. Yeah. Big old pipe bar hanging down. Yeah. Well, anyway, good stuff. We sure appreciate you and appreciate the time.

I can tell you the bugling was off the charts. Those bulls screamed all night long at camp. Really? I mean, it was just, it was pretty intense. Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. Well, that adds to it. It's, you don't get a hunt. There's times when nine doesn't have a lot of bugling. Those years are rough on guys. Yes, it is. Because it's flat and thick like you found out. If they're not talking in there, they can be pretty tough. We appreciate the little insight on the hard park boundary. Yeah. Let the helicopters be your friend. That's what I'm hearing. Absolutely. Yeah, you could have been cussing them, but man, it helped out. Hey. Yeah. Exactly. You got a lemon. Turn it into lemonade. Don't be mad at all the survey helicopters up there, everybody. Right? That's right. Never know. It might help you. Use them to your advantage. Yeah. All right.

But overall, you feel like things are good in New Mexico? All tons of species? Things are good. You know, I think the game department reduced some pronghorn. Northeast? Immature. Yeah, immature and dope tags this year because the numbers are dropping. But other than that, you know, everything's still going strong as far as opportunities. And they were saying, like, it looks like, you know, the fawn-do ratios and whatnot are down. The fawn survival's really low in that area. And part of it would be drought and grasses aren't growing and hiding the fawn and the coyote predation's high. And all of these things are adding up over the course of time, you know. They do. And then I guess, you know, of course we have the over-the-counter private land issue tags. And they put a cap on that. And on July 1st, you can, you know, it's first come, first served.

So trying to limit some of those tags, too, with just, I mean, as you have decreasing populations overall, maybe decrease the buck take as well. But anyway, there was, seems like there's a few challenges. Feels like drought-related, you know, long-term drought-related. Right. Anyway. Well, even with that being said, I mean, there's still giant pronghorn that are growing each year in this state. So opportunity's still great. You can get a tag and go chase them. And I think Adam's a pronghorn guy, right? He is. Because he just, he always complains that New Mexico doesn't give enough non-resident tags. I do not. I do not. We do. You and I complain about that. Well, yeah, but I mean. We want more non-resident tags down there. Well, we just want tags. I'd be complaining, too, if I didn't. Just want tags. That's all.

Is that, would you say it's one of the top states to be a resident of, regardless of the politics?

Yeah, politics aside, I mean, the hunting opportunities are off the charts. I mean, you've got so much stuff you can hunt. But there's over-the-counter stuff. You've been brought stuff in from Africa to just keep hunting in the wintertime. I mean, you've got barbaries. It's got to take up space. And, I mean, geez, yeah. Exactly. And if you haven't hunted an oryx, you really need to. I'm going to find out in about 10 days. Yep, right on there. Johnson's got a tag. It's just about time. Yeah. Yeah, you're going to love it. Yeah. Got him a turbocharged truck so he can beat the competition. No. We're going to just let the dust settle and just ease in with drinking a Coke and see what we can find. Yeah. Yeah, I was going to give you my advice. When they do the checkered flag and everybody goes, just sit there and wait until everybody leaves. And then mosey on down the road. Oh, really?

And then you can shoot what they drove by. Yeah, there we go. Yeah. Do you feel like that's one of the best hunts New Mexico offers, really? It's one of the funnest. Fun, yeah. It's easy. It's fun. I mean, you're not hiking through the mountains all day. You're driving around glassing. Yeah. I'm looking forward to it. My daughter and I drew together. You might have heard before. So, yeah, I'm really looking forward. She's wanted one of those. I actually put in Carter the last two years. We said, we better go try that. Adam's bad luck. And then this year, I'm like, she's been wanting one. She just thinks they look cool. I'm like, all right, I'll put in with you. And we drew. It must be my luck. It's just so unfortunate. So, looking forward to it. What range are you on, Adam? Rhodes. Oh, yeah, you're in a good spot. Yeah. Hit me up if you want some spots. Yeah, looking forward to it.

I got my favorite spots over there. Oh, my heck. Hey. This is a timely podcast here, Jason. Thank you for teeing this up. Craig would have been the first guy. He'd be the first call. I don't care what species or anything. He just knows the state. Looking forward to it. And, you know, hopefully get to bring a couple home, a bunch of awesome meat. These guys are on the office. We've heard so much about it. It's best meat on planet Earth, isn't it? But I'm going to ration that. Makes you realize. Yeah, don't share that with Carter. Don't share that with anybody. The meat? The meat? You can have. Yeah. I've got some elk and deer meat in my freezer. Plenty. But I might just offload that so I can fit the Oryx in there. So, if you want any of that, I'll bring it. The French love horse for a reason. It's just, it's probably awesome.

Come on. Anyway. All right. Okay. We appreciate you. Have a great day, Craig. Thanks for everything. Yeah, you guys take care. Adios. Congratulations. Take care. All right. Thanks, guys. Bye. Let's be done. Yeah. I like just a few stories once in a while. That was awesome. We don't have to talk about much. We've talked about it a little bit. A lot's going on in Arizona. January 2025 issue. Of course, EMAG's online. We also have online draw odds. See both those guys' bowls in that magazine. Yeah. Great. So, anyway. All right, everybody. Have a great weekend. Let's face it. If your goal is to kill big stuff, you need to draw quality tags. Quality tags are typically hard to draw. To increase your odds of drawing good tags, you need to apply in multiple states. That's where an Epic Outdoors membership can help.

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